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American Morning
Federal Judge Deciding Life or Death; Jackson Fights Past
Aired March 21, 2005 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A desperate last chance for the parents of Terri Schiavo. A federal judge now deciding life or death after a remarkable battle in Washington.
And a father's rage today...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK LUNSFORD, JESSICA LUNSFORD'S FATHER: I hope you rot in hell and I hope you get the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: A challenge issued to a confessed killer after police reveal new chilling details in the Jessica Lunsford murder.
And did a role on a TV show drive a young boxer to suicide? A hard reality on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.
We're going to talk to one of the people involved in this amazing debate in Washington, D.C., over the weekend over Terri Schiavo's fate. Florida Congressman Robert Wexler is our guest. He argued against the bill. We're going to find out why.
HEMMER: Also, in the Michael Jackson matter the trial within a trial developing in California. A critical decision before that judge that could open a flood of new evidence. We'll get to that this hour.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: We appear to have touched a nerve. The most letters ever in the history of this program, and we've got an hour to go. Over 1,500 letters have come in, in the first two hours, about whether Congress ought to be involving itself with things like steroids and the Terri Schiavo case while we have a war in Iraq and skyrocketing deficits and no solution to Social Security and millions of people without health care and failing public schools and yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Is this the -- is this the priority that Congress ought to have? And a lot of you have some very strong feelings on the subject.
O'BRIEN: We'll hear some of those just ahead. Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Indeed. I'm going read all 1,500.
O'BRIEN: There'll be 2,000 by then. Thanks, Jack.
Well, let's get a look at some of the other stories that are making headlines this morning with Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: There is other news this morning. Good morning, everyone.
Secretary-General Kofi Annan wants to see major changes at the United Nations. Annan will address the general assembly in about an hour. He's proposing an expansion of the Security Council from 15 to 24 countries, a new human rights body and a series of reforms for management and watchdog agencies. The changes would be the most extensive in the U.N.'s 60-year history.
This news just into CNN. The musical world mourning the loss of cabaret singer Bobby Short. He was called the tuxedo embodiment of New York style and sophistication.
Short was a fixture at his piano at the Carlisle Hotel for more than 35 years. He died earlier today in New York. Bobby Short was 80 years old.
Word of another resignation from former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. He was President Bush's pick for homeland security secretary and then he withdrew after it was revealed he had employed an undocumented immigrant. CNN confirming this morning Kerik is also planning to step down April 1st from the board of Taser Incorporated. Kerik says he wants to focus on his consulting business.
And will he or won't he? There is word this morning that Chief Justice William Rehnquist may return to the bench when the Supreme Court resumes in the next hour. He's been recuperating since a cancer diagnosis last October. Court officials say he's been working at his office frequently in recent weeks. This is the first time the court has not completely ruled out his return.
HEMMER: He showed a lot of strength given his condition and given his age of 80.
COSTELLO: It's amazing.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Well, a federal judge is now deciding whether Terri Schiavo's feeding tube should be put back in. Overnight, President Bush signed Terri's Law after a marathon weekend of debate and emergency voting by Congress.
CNN's Ed Henry live on Capitol Hill this morning.
Ed good morning to you.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the speed of which this legislation was passed. Pretty unusual, huh?
HENRY: Absolutely. It's extremely rare for the House to even meet on a Sunday, especially Palm Sunday, in the wee hours of the morning. And lawmakers as well were supposed to be on their spring recess. They were flying in, rushing in from airports from all around the world last night.
I spoke to one congressman from Idaho who flew seven hours just to be here. He was in the House chamber for maybe a minute to vote and then is flying back seven hours this morning. He said it was worth it because it was history in the making and he did not want to miss that vote.
The Senate, however, decided to push through this legislation which now allows that federal judge to review this case. They pushed it through without debate. But the House had three hours of very emotional debate. Many Democrats saying that this was really about politics, especially after a Republican memo leaked out suggesting that Republicans were trying to get political gain, rally their conservative base in advance of the 2006 elections. But Republicans insisted on the House floor last night this was about the sanctity of life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICK RENZI (R), ARIZONA: Tonight's vote says we want a second look at this unique case. We want mercy. Be merciful and find true bravery and justice in preserving the life of Terri Schiavo.
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: This is demagoguery! This is a step in where we have no business. This is walking where the angels fear to tread. We are playing with a young woman's life but it's sick (ph) of politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, last night, Bobby Schindler, who's Terri Schiavo's brother, was in the Capitol watching this House vote from an office. He watched it on a television screen and then shortly thereafter I saw Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, go into the room and embrace Bobby Schindler.
But Tom DeLay himself told me in the hallway he is not celebrating. Despite the fact there was some applause after this vote last night, Tom DeLay says he is not celebrating because it's not a guarantee that this federal judge will act in time to get that feeding tube in place to keep Terri Schiavo alive -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Ed Henry on Capitol Hill for us this morning. Ed, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: As you can see and you can hear, the sparring has been heated on Capitol Hill. Representative Robert Wexler's a Democrat from Florida. He's my guest now in D.C.
Good morning to you, sir. And thanks for your time.
REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Good morning.
HEMMER: I know you're against this move. Why not allow a federal judge at this point to review her case one more time?
WEXLER: For seven years the Florida courts have taken in numerous bits of testimony, they've heard from the country's most prominent neurosurgeons, 19 judges have acted in the state of Florida in this case. All of them unanimously have concluded that by a standard of clear and convincing (AUDIO GAP) in this vegetative state.
HEMMER: We apologize for that. I just want to stop you one second. We lost your microphone here.
Do we have it back now down in D.C.? Let's try it again.
Can you hear me, Congressman?
WEXLER: I can hear you fine, yes.
HEMMER: I can hear you now. Continue as you were. I apologize for that.
WEXLER: No. For seven years the state of Florida, with its judges, 19 judges, have participated in this case. They've taken testimony from all family members, from friends, from prominent neurosurgeons and neurologists across the country, and they all agreed that Terri Schiavo is in a situation where she is in a permanent vegetative state and that her will is that she not continue in this state.
There is no question about -- you know, people say, well, give it a second look. This has been going on for seven years. And the question...
HEMMER: Here's what the -- here's what the governor in your home state says. Jeb Bush put out a statement. He says, "If you remove the feeding tube it essentially amounts to death by starvation." And that "government," his words, "has a duty to protect the weak and the disabled."
Do you understand the governor's position?
WEXLER: Oh, I understand the governor's position. We do that in the state of Florida every day of every year. We do that all across the country. And maybe there ought to be a more humane way to do this. I would join with the governor to find that, although I don't think he would support it.
But here's the question Americans ought to be asking themselves this morning: because the Congress disagreed with the result of a proper state court proceeding, Congress stepped in and substituted its judgment. Why do we have state courts if the Congress is simply going to overturn them?
For more than two centuries we have respected the independence of the judiciary. Last night the Congress totally overturned that very American precedent.
HEMMER: So your issue comes down to law and whether or not the Congress has authority in this matter just to understand you correctly, right?
WEXLER: It certainly does. This is a matter of respecting the rulings of a state court system which is operated deliberately and fair.
And for the Congress to come in -- and we didn't take a single bit of testimony. No one in the Congress examined Terri Schiavo. There was no medical opinions given.
What there was, was a lot of quackery in certain ways in terms of the type of medicine that was being espoused. What we do know is that the six court-appointed physicians who examined Terri all concluded that she is in this very unfortunate state where she has no cognitive ability.
HEMMER: So then answer the second part of that question. When it comes to consideration for the parents, do they not deserve a say in the fate of their own daughter?
WEXLER: They do deserve a say. And they got that many times in the Florida courts. But the ultimate say is Terri's. And the court concluded that, not the parents, not the husband, but Terri's wishes was that she not remain in this permanent vegetative state.
That's what the law of Florida says. It's not the role of Congress to substitute its judgment because they don't like the result. Had the Florida courts ruled in the parents' favor, do you think we would have been there late last night, overturning the Florida court's decision? Of course not.
HEMMER: Robert Wexler, thanks. Congressman from Florida. This story is to be continued. Thank you for your time there.
Here's Soledad with more now.
O'BRIEN: Of course this raises many ethical questions. Arthur Caplan is the director for the Center of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania. He joins us from there this morning.
Nice to see you.
ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, CENTER OF BIOETHICS, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for being with us.
First, I'm curious, as an ethicist, what do you make of this late-night move by Congress?
CAPLAN: Well, ultimately, this isn't an issue about disability rights, it's not an issue about quality of life. Believe it or not, not even an issue about euthanasia. It's an issue about every individual's right to control their medical care, to refuse it if they want, and not to lose that right if they become unable to communicate.
So we have situations every day where Jehovah's Witnesses says no to blood or a Christian scientist says no to treatment. Sometimes their spouses do it for them. That's a pretty fundamental right that Congress is, if you will, mucking around with.
O'BRIEN: So generally what happens then if someone hasn't left a living will and actually spelled out exactly where they would stand if something very traumatic and devastating happened to them?
CAPLAN: Well, Soledad, first of all, it's very important to have a living will. You should right down on a piece of paper, have it witnessed, who you want to make your decisions.
Unfortunately, people like Terri Schiavo, 21 years old, don't do that. So there are lots of situations where people don't have written instructions. We go automatically to spouses.
Husbands and wives have decision-making authority. Then you go on to adult children, if it are any. Then, and only then, do you go to parents and siblings and other relatives.
So, if you will, spouses trump everyone else. They are the surrogates. And that's because that's the person you choose to live with. That's the person you have the most intimate contact with. That's the person assumably who knows you best.
O'BRIEN: Doctors have said, diagnosed persistent vegetative state. Is that diagnosis, per se, a very clear one in the medical profession? Or is there room, almost wiggle room, for a diagnosis like that?
CAPLAN: Not too much wiggle room. There are occasionally errors made. But when you have a CAT scan -- and she did in 2002 -- and it shows that your cortex, the outer part of your brain, has died and degenerated, that's a pretty solid sign that is a permanent vegetative state. Interestingly enough, the other sign is that if you can't get past grimacing and tears and, if you will, following light and dark, the reflex actions that are still present in Terri, the chances of recovery after 17 years, I don't know of any case.
O'BRIEN: After Congress made its decision and it was announced, Terri's father came to the microphone and he said he told her the good news -- I'm using his words -- "And she smiled a big smile at me." So is he lying or is he misreading a sign that you would call a reflex? What's go on there?
CAPLAN: I think he's got a lot of hopeful observation happening. I don't think Terri can follow language. She's too brain damaged for that. I don't think she can comprehend or understand what's going on around her.
I think when a parent or loved one comes and wants and hopes and wishes that something would be there, they read any sign, a turn of the head, a grimace, any kind of reflexes as somehow positive. So I don't think so, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: So when they stop her water and they stop her nutrition, they're essentially dehydrating her and starving her to death. Isn't that incredibly painful even for a person who has no cognitive ability?
CAPLAN: It shouldn't be a matter of suffering in the brain state she's in. I think it's probably the dehydration, experts tell me, more than the starvation that's going to cause her death.
What they will do, though, is use narcotics. And when we take feeding tubes out of anyone, whether it's someone with Lou Gehrig's Disease, terrible cancer, Alzheimer's, and they say stop, or they have a written directive, or the relatives tell us that, you manage them humanely.
We're not going to see Terri go in the corner, have her feeding tube out and just sit there. They will, in fact, give her some form of drug to make her comfortable.
O'BRIEN: Art Caplan is the director for the Center of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.
Nice to see you, as always. Thanks for talking with us.
CAPLAN: Thanks.
HEMMER: Fourteen minutes past the hour. Follow-up on a story I mentioned about 10 minutes ago. U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist will be back on the bench today at the U.S. Supreme court about 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, which is about 45 minutes away on the clock.
He's 80 years old now, treated for thyroid cancer back in October. His last public appearance was the inauguration address in D.C. on Capitol Hill. January 20 for that when he administered oath of office. A very brief appearance seen for about 18 minutes with the president in front of the Capitol building.
Said to be working at his home office. But today he returns to the big office, that's the bench at the U.S. Supreme Court, at the age 80. William Rehnquist will be there for oral arguments when they begin in about 45 minutes from now. Keep you posted on that.
Also keep you posted on the weather. Back to Chad Myers now a the CNN Center. (WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're going to tell you where Americans are now paying $2.34 for a gallon of gas.
HEMMER: And it may go higher, too.
Also, in the Michael Jackson matter, a judge may soon make a decision that would have Michael Jackson fighting for more than just who the accuser is in court.
O'BRIEN: And we talked to producer Mark Burnett about part of a reality show that nobody ever intended to happen.
Those stories ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Authorities in Florida say evidence indicates that Jessica Lunsford was held for more than a day in and was sexually assaulted before she was killed. Investigators now believe the suspect, John Couey, walked into the Lunsford home the night of February 23rd. They say he went to the 9-year-old's bedroom, put his hand over her mouth, and then forced her out of the home.
Sunday the girl's father made another appeal for tougher laws regarding sex offenders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUNSFORD: We have to make some changes. This is too close to home. And all of the parents out there, everybody that's listening, we need to write our congressmen and we need to make some changes, people. This does not need to happen again. Not this close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: The sheriff told us earlier here on AMERICAN MORNING that Couey could be charged as early as today. The sheriff also says he will seek the death penalty -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael Jackson's child molestation trial is now entering its fourth week. As the prosecution makes its case against Jackson, the defense is desperately trying to keep previous charges from surfacing in court.
Here's CNN's Miguel Marquez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Michael Jackson, it may be the biggest legal hurdle in his child molestation case. A judge will soon decide if allegations from Jackson's past will surface in the present.
LAURIE LEVENSON, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: Prosecutors will able to argue he's a serial pedophile. And what he did before to these other boys, perhaps enticing them to Neverland Ranch, giving them alcohol, showing them dirty magazines and then molesting them, is the same thing he did to his boy.
MARQUEZ: It's called an 1108 hearing. Lawyers call it the Michael Jackson law.
The California law was passed after the pop star avoided criminal charges in 1993 by settling out of car. Then his alleged molestation victim walked away with more than $20 million.
LEVENSON: It may turn out that the trial within the trial is more important than anything else in this case. The whole question of whether Michael Jackson has done this before will be the focal point for the jury.
MARQUEZ: The prosecution has already indicated it wants to introduce evidence from allegations of at least seven boys. The prosecution also says the case against Jackson is still open and new evidence or allegations are possible.
LEVENSON: The significance of allowing in the prior allegations of abuse is that it's one thing for Tom Mesereau, for as great a lawyer as he is, to say that this boy now is lying. It's much harder to make that argument if other boys come forward and say, "Michael Jackson did the same thing to me."
MARQUEZ: This week, the prosecution will continue trying to make the case that Jackson is a serial pedophile and his latest accuser is one of many.
Miguel Marquez, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: At a hearing next week, the judge will consider evidence from previous accusers before deciding if they can testify at the current Jackson trial -- Bill.
HEMMER: It was a very emotional episode last night of "The Contender" featuring a tribute to a boxer who committed suicide after the series finished taping. Was going ahead with that show last night the right decision? We'll talk with producer Mark Burnett, our guest when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: At the pump now the average price for a gallon of gasoline has shot up about 13 cent is in the past two weeks. That's a penny a day. According to the Lundberg Survey, the average price of self-serve regular gasoline -- that's the cheap stuff -- at a record $2.10 a gallon. That exceeds the previous high of $2.07 set last May.
Drivers in Honolulu paying most the most, $2.34 a gallon there. Newark, New Jersey, has the lowest price today, $1.91 there. And tomorrow, Rick Paul from "Consumer Reports" joins us, telling us about new high-tech systems and hybrids that will help make cars more efficient.
Time to go to Newark for some cheap gas -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And we are back with Jack. He's got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Lots of responses this morning.
CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot of them is right.
Congress passed a bill earlier this morning, as we've been telling you all morning long, transferring jurisdiction in the Schiavo case to a U.S. district court for a federal judge to take a look at. This, after 19 judges in six state courts in Florida over seven years have reviewed the case.
Nevertheless, Congress felt the need to get involved here. This follows Thursday's roundup of Major League Baseball players for a heated hearing on steroids.
The question this morning is this: Should Congress be dealing with Schiavo and steroids when there's a war in Iraq and a record deficit?
Laurie in Tampa, Florida, writes: "I never thought I would applaud the Republicans or President Bush. However, I'm proud that they are trying to save Terri. What the Florida courts have done amounts to a cruel murder."
Jay writes: "Wouldn't it be interesting if the Republicans in Congress decided to address with the same urgency the moral question of people dying due to the lack of health care or the inability to afford prescription drugs?"
Dave in New York writes: "The irony's so thick you need an ice cream scoop to cut it. Here you have the sanctity of marriage crowd, you know, the same guys who believe allowing gays to marry ruins the concept of marriage, completely making marriage null and void by legislating an end around the wishes of a spouse."
And Bernie in Florida writes: "It's blatant politics and pandering under the influence of the steroids of power which over- enlarge their centers of ego. Notice the swelling of their heads, it's a sure sign."
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
In a moment here, did a role on a TV show drive a young boxer to suicide? Were there any signs for the show to take note of? We'll talk to the creator, Mark Burnett, live in a moment here as we continue on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired March 21, 2005 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A desperate last chance for the parents of Terri Schiavo. A federal judge now deciding life or death after a remarkable battle in Washington.
And a father's rage today...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK LUNSFORD, JESSICA LUNSFORD'S FATHER: I hope you rot in hell and I hope you get the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: A challenge issued to a confessed killer after police reveal new chilling details in the Jessica Lunsford murder.
And did a role on a TV show drive a young boxer to suicide? A hard reality on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.
We're going to talk to one of the people involved in this amazing debate in Washington, D.C., over the weekend over Terri Schiavo's fate. Florida Congressman Robert Wexler is our guest. He argued against the bill. We're going to find out why.
HEMMER: Also, in the Michael Jackson matter the trial within a trial developing in California. A critical decision before that judge that could open a flood of new evidence. We'll get to that this hour.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: We appear to have touched a nerve. The most letters ever in the history of this program, and we've got an hour to go. Over 1,500 letters have come in, in the first two hours, about whether Congress ought to be involving itself with things like steroids and the Terri Schiavo case while we have a war in Iraq and skyrocketing deficits and no solution to Social Security and millions of people without health care and failing public schools and yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Is this the -- is this the priority that Congress ought to have? And a lot of you have some very strong feelings on the subject.
O'BRIEN: We'll hear some of those just ahead. Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Indeed. I'm going read all 1,500.
O'BRIEN: There'll be 2,000 by then. Thanks, Jack.
Well, let's get a look at some of the other stories that are making headlines this morning with Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: There is other news this morning. Good morning, everyone.
Secretary-General Kofi Annan wants to see major changes at the United Nations. Annan will address the general assembly in about an hour. He's proposing an expansion of the Security Council from 15 to 24 countries, a new human rights body and a series of reforms for management and watchdog agencies. The changes would be the most extensive in the U.N.'s 60-year history.
This news just into CNN. The musical world mourning the loss of cabaret singer Bobby Short. He was called the tuxedo embodiment of New York style and sophistication.
Short was a fixture at his piano at the Carlisle Hotel for more than 35 years. He died earlier today in New York. Bobby Short was 80 years old.
Word of another resignation from former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. He was President Bush's pick for homeland security secretary and then he withdrew after it was revealed he had employed an undocumented immigrant. CNN confirming this morning Kerik is also planning to step down April 1st from the board of Taser Incorporated. Kerik says he wants to focus on his consulting business.
And will he or won't he? There is word this morning that Chief Justice William Rehnquist may return to the bench when the Supreme Court resumes in the next hour. He's been recuperating since a cancer diagnosis last October. Court officials say he's been working at his office frequently in recent weeks. This is the first time the court has not completely ruled out his return.
HEMMER: He showed a lot of strength given his condition and given his age of 80.
COSTELLO: It's amazing.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Well, a federal judge is now deciding whether Terri Schiavo's feeding tube should be put back in. Overnight, President Bush signed Terri's Law after a marathon weekend of debate and emergency voting by Congress.
CNN's Ed Henry live on Capitol Hill this morning.
Ed good morning to you.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the speed of which this legislation was passed. Pretty unusual, huh?
HENRY: Absolutely. It's extremely rare for the House to even meet on a Sunday, especially Palm Sunday, in the wee hours of the morning. And lawmakers as well were supposed to be on their spring recess. They were flying in, rushing in from airports from all around the world last night.
I spoke to one congressman from Idaho who flew seven hours just to be here. He was in the House chamber for maybe a minute to vote and then is flying back seven hours this morning. He said it was worth it because it was history in the making and he did not want to miss that vote.
The Senate, however, decided to push through this legislation which now allows that federal judge to review this case. They pushed it through without debate. But the House had three hours of very emotional debate. Many Democrats saying that this was really about politics, especially after a Republican memo leaked out suggesting that Republicans were trying to get political gain, rally their conservative base in advance of the 2006 elections. But Republicans insisted on the House floor last night this was about the sanctity of life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICK RENZI (R), ARIZONA: Tonight's vote says we want a second look at this unique case. We want mercy. Be merciful and find true bravery and justice in preserving the life of Terri Schiavo.
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: This is demagoguery! This is a step in where we have no business. This is walking where the angels fear to tread. We are playing with a young woman's life but it's sick (ph) of politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, last night, Bobby Schindler, who's Terri Schiavo's brother, was in the Capitol watching this House vote from an office. He watched it on a television screen and then shortly thereafter I saw Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, go into the room and embrace Bobby Schindler.
But Tom DeLay himself told me in the hallway he is not celebrating. Despite the fact there was some applause after this vote last night, Tom DeLay says he is not celebrating because it's not a guarantee that this federal judge will act in time to get that feeding tube in place to keep Terri Schiavo alive -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Ed Henry on Capitol Hill for us this morning. Ed, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: As you can see and you can hear, the sparring has been heated on Capitol Hill. Representative Robert Wexler's a Democrat from Florida. He's my guest now in D.C.
Good morning to you, sir. And thanks for your time.
REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Good morning.
HEMMER: I know you're against this move. Why not allow a federal judge at this point to review her case one more time?
WEXLER: For seven years the Florida courts have taken in numerous bits of testimony, they've heard from the country's most prominent neurosurgeons, 19 judges have acted in the state of Florida in this case. All of them unanimously have concluded that by a standard of clear and convincing (AUDIO GAP) in this vegetative state.
HEMMER: We apologize for that. I just want to stop you one second. We lost your microphone here.
Do we have it back now down in D.C.? Let's try it again.
Can you hear me, Congressman?
WEXLER: I can hear you fine, yes.
HEMMER: I can hear you now. Continue as you were. I apologize for that.
WEXLER: No. For seven years the state of Florida, with its judges, 19 judges, have participated in this case. They've taken testimony from all family members, from friends, from prominent neurosurgeons and neurologists across the country, and they all agreed that Terri Schiavo is in a situation where she is in a permanent vegetative state and that her will is that she not continue in this state.
There is no question about -- you know, people say, well, give it a second look. This has been going on for seven years. And the question...
HEMMER: Here's what the -- here's what the governor in your home state says. Jeb Bush put out a statement. He says, "If you remove the feeding tube it essentially amounts to death by starvation." And that "government," his words, "has a duty to protect the weak and the disabled."
Do you understand the governor's position?
WEXLER: Oh, I understand the governor's position. We do that in the state of Florida every day of every year. We do that all across the country. And maybe there ought to be a more humane way to do this. I would join with the governor to find that, although I don't think he would support it.
But here's the question Americans ought to be asking themselves this morning: because the Congress disagreed with the result of a proper state court proceeding, Congress stepped in and substituted its judgment. Why do we have state courts if the Congress is simply going to overturn them?
For more than two centuries we have respected the independence of the judiciary. Last night the Congress totally overturned that very American precedent.
HEMMER: So your issue comes down to law and whether or not the Congress has authority in this matter just to understand you correctly, right?
WEXLER: It certainly does. This is a matter of respecting the rulings of a state court system which is operated deliberately and fair.
And for the Congress to come in -- and we didn't take a single bit of testimony. No one in the Congress examined Terri Schiavo. There was no medical opinions given.
What there was, was a lot of quackery in certain ways in terms of the type of medicine that was being espoused. What we do know is that the six court-appointed physicians who examined Terri all concluded that she is in this very unfortunate state where she has no cognitive ability.
HEMMER: So then answer the second part of that question. When it comes to consideration for the parents, do they not deserve a say in the fate of their own daughter?
WEXLER: They do deserve a say. And they got that many times in the Florida courts. But the ultimate say is Terri's. And the court concluded that, not the parents, not the husband, but Terri's wishes was that she not remain in this permanent vegetative state.
That's what the law of Florida says. It's not the role of Congress to substitute its judgment because they don't like the result. Had the Florida courts ruled in the parents' favor, do you think we would have been there late last night, overturning the Florida court's decision? Of course not.
HEMMER: Robert Wexler, thanks. Congressman from Florida. This story is to be continued. Thank you for your time there.
Here's Soledad with more now.
O'BRIEN: Of course this raises many ethical questions. Arthur Caplan is the director for the Center of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania. He joins us from there this morning.
Nice to see you.
ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, CENTER OF BIOETHICS, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for being with us.
First, I'm curious, as an ethicist, what do you make of this late-night move by Congress?
CAPLAN: Well, ultimately, this isn't an issue about disability rights, it's not an issue about quality of life. Believe it or not, not even an issue about euthanasia. It's an issue about every individual's right to control their medical care, to refuse it if they want, and not to lose that right if they become unable to communicate.
So we have situations every day where Jehovah's Witnesses says no to blood or a Christian scientist says no to treatment. Sometimes their spouses do it for them. That's a pretty fundamental right that Congress is, if you will, mucking around with.
O'BRIEN: So generally what happens then if someone hasn't left a living will and actually spelled out exactly where they would stand if something very traumatic and devastating happened to them?
CAPLAN: Well, Soledad, first of all, it's very important to have a living will. You should right down on a piece of paper, have it witnessed, who you want to make your decisions.
Unfortunately, people like Terri Schiavo, 21 years old, don't do that. So there are lots of situations where people don't have written instructions. We go automatically to spouses.
Husbands and wives have decision-making authority. Then you go on to adult children, if it are any. Then, and only then, do you go to parents and siblings and other relatives.
So, if you will, spouses trump everyone else. They are the surrogates. And that's because that's the person you choose to live with. That's the person you have the most intimate contact with. That's the person assumably who knows you best.
O'BRIEN: Doctors have said, diagnosed persistent vegetative state. Is that diagnosis, per se, a very clear one in the medical profession? Or is there room, almost wiggle room, for a diagnosis like that?
CAPLAN: Not too much wiggle room. There are occasionally errors made. But when you have a CAT scan -- and she did in 2002 -- and it shows that your cortex, the outer part of your brain, has died and degenerated, that's a pretty solid sign that is a permanent vegetative state. Interestingly enough, the other sign is that if you can't get past grimacing and tears and, if you will, following light and dark, the reflex actions that are still present in Terri, the chances of recovery after 17 years, I don't know of any case.
O'BRIEN: After Congress made its decision and it was announced, Terri's father came to the microphone and he said he told her the good news -- I'm using his words -- "And she smiled a big smile at me." So is he lying or is he misreading a sign that you would call a reflex? What's go on there?
CAPLAN: I think he's got a lot of hopeful observation happening. I don't think Terri can follow language. She's too brain damaged for that. I don't think she can comprehend or understand what's going on around her.
I think when a parent or loved one comes and wants and hopes and wishes that something would be there, they read any sign, a turn of the head, a grimace, any kind of reflexes as somehow positive. So I don't think so, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: So when they stop her water and they stop her nutrition, they're essentially dehydrating her and starving her to death. Isn't that incredibly painful even for a person who has no cognitive ability?
CAPLAN: It shouldn't be a matter of suffering in the brain state she's in. I think it's probably the dehydration, experts tell me, more than the starvation that's going to cause her death.
What they will do, though, is use narcotics. And when we take feeding tubes out of anyone, whether it's someone with Lou Gehrig's Disease, terrible cancer, Alzheimer's, and they say stop, or they have a written directive, or the relatives tell us that, you manage them humanely.
We're not going to see Terri go in the corner, have her feeding tube out and just sit there. They will, in fact, give her some form of drug to make her comfortable.
O'BRIEN: Art Caplan is the director for the Center of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.
Nice to see you, as always. Thanks for talking with us.
CAPLAN: Thanks.
HEMMER: Fourteen minutes past the hour. Follow-up on a story I mentioned about 10 minutes ago. U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist will be back on the bench today at the U.S. Supreme court about 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, which is about 45 minutes away on the clock.
He's 80 years old now, treated for thyroid cancer back in October. His last public appearance was the inauguration address in D.C. on Capitol Hill. January 20 for that when he administered oath of office. A very brief appearance seen for about 18 minutes with the president in front of the Capitol building.
Said to be working at his home office. But today he returns to the big office, that's the bench at the U.S. Supreme Court, at the age 80. William Rehnquist will be there for oral arguments when they begin in about 45 minutes from now. Keep you posted on that.
Also keep you posted on the weather. Back to Chad Myers now a the CNN Center. (WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're going to tell you where Americans are now paying $2.34 for a gallon of gas.
HEMMER: And it may go higher, too.
Also, in the Michael Jackson matter, a judge may soon make a decision that would have Michael Jackson fighting for more than just who the accuser is in court.
O'BRIEN: And we talked to producer Mark Burnett about part of a reality show that nobody ever intended to happen.
Those stories ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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HEMMER: Authorities in Florida say evidence indicates that Jessica Lunsford was held for more than a day in and was sexually assaulted before she was killed. Investigators now believe the suspect, John Couey, walked into the Lunsford home the night of February 23rd. They say he went to the 9-year-old's bedroom, put his hand over her mouth, and then forced her out of the home.
Sunday the girl's father made another appeal for tougher laws regarding sex offenders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUNSFORD: We have to make some changes. This is too close to home. And all of the parents out there, everybody that's listening, we need to write our congressmen and we need to make some changes, people. This does not need to happen again. Not this close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: The sheriff told us earlier here on AMERICAN MORNING that Couey could be charged as early as today. The sheriff also says he will seek the death penalty -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Michael Jackson's child molestation trial is now entering its fourth week. As the prosecution makes its case against Jackson, the defense is desperately trying to keep previous charges from surfacing in court.
Here's CNN's Miguel Marquez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Michael Jackson, it may be the biggest legal hurdle in his child molestation case. A judge will soon decide if allegations from Jackson's past will surface in the present.
LAURIE LEVENSON, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: Prosecutors will able to argue he's a serial pedophile. And what he did before to these other boys, perhaps enticing them to Neverland Ranch, giving them alcohol, showing them dirty magazines and then molesting them, is the same thing he did to his boy.
MARQUEZ: It's called an 1108 hearing. Lawyers call it the Michael Jackson law.
The California law was passed after the pop star avoided criminal charges in 1993 by settling out of car. Then his alleged molestation victim walked away with more than $20 million.
LEVENSON: It may turn out that the trial within the trial is more important than anything else in this case. The whole question of whether Michael Jackson has done this before will be the focal point for the jury.
MARQUEZ: The prosecution has already indicated it wants to introduce evidence from allegations of at least seven boys. The prosecution also says the case against Jackson is still open and new evidence or allegations are possible.
LEVENSON: The significance of allowing in the prior allegations of abuse is that it's one thing for Tom Mesereau, for as great a lawyer as he is, to say that this boy now is lying. It's much harder to make that argument if other boys come forward and say, "Michael Jackson did the same thing to me."
MARQUEZ: This week, the prosecution will continue trying to make the case that Jackson is a serial pedophile and his latest accuser is one of many.
Miguel Marquez, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: At a hearing next week, the judge will consider evidence from previous accusers before deciding if they can testify at the current Jackson trial -- Bill.
HEMMER: It was a very emotional episode last night of "The Contender" featuring a tribute to a boxer who committed suicide after the series finished taping. Was going ahead with that show last night the right decision? We'll talk with producer Mark Burnett, our guest when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: At the pump now the average price for a gallon of gasoline has shot up about 13 cent is in the past two weeks. That's a penny a day. According to the Lundberg Survey, the average price of self-serve regular gasoline -- that's the cheap stuff -- at a record $2.10 a gallon. That exceeds the previous high of $2.07 set last May.
Drivers in Honolulu paying most the most, $2.34 a gallon there. Newark, New Jersey, has the lowest price today, $1.91 there. And tomorrow, Rick Paul from "Consumer Reports" joins us, telling us about new high-tech systems and hybrids that will help make cars more efficient.
Time to go to Newark for some cheap gas -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And we are back with Jack. He's got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Lots of responses this morning.
CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot of them is right.
Congress passed a bill earlier this morning, as we've been telling you all morning long, transferring jurisdiction in the Schiavo case to a U.S. district court for a federal judge to take a look at. This, after 19 judges in six state courts in Florida over seven years have reviewed the case.
Nevertheless, Congress felt the need to get involved here. This follows Thursday's roundup of Major League Baseball players for a heated hearing on steroids.
The question this morning is this: Should Congress be dealing with Schiavo and steroids when there's a war in Iraq and a record deficit?
Laurie in Tampa, Florida, writes: "I never thought I would applaud the Republicans or President Bush. However, I'm proud that they are trying to save Terri. What the Florida courts have done amounts to a cruel murder."
Jay writes: "Wouldn't it be interesting if the Republicans in Congress decided to address with the same urgency the moral question of people dying due to the lack of health care or the inability to afford prescription drugs?"
Dave in New York writes: "The irony's so thick you need an ice cream scoop to cut it. Here you have the sanctity of marriage crowd, you know, the same guys who believe allowing gays to marry ruins the concept of marriage, completely making marriage null and void by legislating an end around the wishes of a spouse."
And Bernie in Florida writes: "It's blatant politics and pandering under the influence of the steroids of power which over- enlarge their centers of ego. Notice the swelling of their heads, it's a sure sign."
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
In a moment here, did a role on a TV show drive a young boxer to suicide? Were there any signs for the show to take note of? We'll talk to the creator, Mark Burnett, live in a moment here as we continue on AMERICAN MORNING.
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