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Nancy Grace

New Videotape Surfaces in Scott Peterson Case; Interview With Kiley Barnes

Aired March 22, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, video surfaces and the Scott Peterson defense team says it will get them a reversal -- that`s right, a reversal - - in the double-murder trial. Peterson is facing a California death penalty for the murders of his wife, Laci, and their unborn baby boy, Conner. The jury never saw the video. But tonight, you and I will watch it together.
And Michael Jackson back in court today, on time and wearing his pants. The prosecution continued calling witnesses while we wait for Judge Melville to decide whether Jackson`s alleged past bad acts with the other boys will come before the jury.

And her father was a respected and beloved superior court judge, Rowland Barnes, murdered on the bench in the Atlanta courthouse. Tonight, an exclusive interview with his girl, his daughter, Kiley Barnes.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us this evening.

Judge Rowland Barnes was one of the most respected and admired judges to ever take the bench in Atlanta Fulton County. And you know, I don`t give judges a lot of slack, but this was a judge that made me proud to be a lawyer.

His life, tragically cut short when a rape and sodomy defendant, on his way to trial, grabbed a deputy`s gun and went on a rampage. Four innocent people murdered that day, all at the hands of Brian Nichols, the alleged shooter.

Tonight, we talk exclusively to Kiley Barnes, his beautiful daughter, about her father and the day of the shootings.

And in the Michael Jackson trial, the child sex case, today testimony continues to pour -- pour -- from the witness stand for the prosecution. Both sides waiting for the judge`s ruling as to whether the jury will ever learn about other boys who claim Jackson molested them, as well.

But first, it`s the video Scott Peterson`s defense team claimed would prove he`s innocent. Now, let`s see what you think.

With me tonight from Atlanta, defense attorney Chris Pixley and, in New York, Court TV`s Beth Karas. Beth covered the case from day one.

OK, Elizabeth, do we have the video ready? Let`s roll that video. OK. This is what the defense wanted to show the jury.

Beth, tell me what we`re seeing.

BETH KARAS, COURT TV: We are someone who works for Mark Geragos. His name is Raffi in the boat in a wet suit. And the dummy is behind him. That`s the dummy the defense created to be approximately the dimensions and the weight of Laci Peterson. She was 153 pounds when she went missing. Now, Raffi is going to attempt to throw this dummy overboard the way the prosecution says Scott Peterson did.

GRACE: Yes, and right there...

(CROSSTALK)

KARAS: They don`t know where she was in the boat, of course, or how he dumped her out of the boat.

GRACE: Right. And, Beth, I don`t know if you can see the video you`re your studio, but there is, as you said, Raffi back in the back, got on a wetsuit. He`s struggling with this dummy that they have set up to be -- uh-oh, uh-oh, Beth. He sees the boat is tipping.

But is he -- he`s turning the boat over. There we go. Water in the boat, Beth. Poor Scott Peterson. He got wet. Uh-oh, here we go. We`re swimming. OK, Beth, why was this disallowed into evidence?

KARAS: Well, the defense could not replicate the conditions. This is the San Francisco Bay where Scott Peterson went, but they can`t replicate the weather and water conditions of that day. More importantly, exactly what the weight distribution was in the boat, where she was in the boat, where he was.

Did he throw her over the front of the boat? Did he stand to one side while throwing her off the other side, trying to balance the boat? Raffi didn`t attempt to do that. We didn`t see him trying to distribute his weight to balance the boat.

GRACE: Got you.

KARAS: I don`t know how many attempts they made.

GRACE: Oh, yes, that`s a good point, Beth. I wonder how many takes they took on this thing before they got to this video.

OK, let`s hear from the defense side. Chris Pixley, I don`t know if you`re an avid fisherman or not, but even I, who am not, have the good sense to note that when the boat is tipping over to one side to go to the other side of the boat, Chris.

CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you make a good point. There`s an open question as to whether or not this would have influenced the jury the way the defense wanted them to. I don`t think that this videotape demonstrates that the body dumping would have sunk the boat.

GRACE: Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Chris, roll up your pants. Roll up your pants. We are getting wet. Here we go.

No wonder the judge didn`t allow it in. But, Chris, if you are making the argument for the defense, why should this come in? It`s ridiculous.

PIXLEY: Well, Nancy, remember that event reconstructions of this kind are commonly allowed into evidence as long as the circumstances are roughly equivalent, not perfectly equivalent, but roughly equivalent to the conditions on that day.

I`ve been involved in California appeals where the state has actually put into evidence event reconstructions involving murders at sea where they did not have the same weather, it wasn`t even the same time of year, the didn`t have the same conditions, you had a body that was 80 pounds heavier than the subject, and the courts still allowed it in.

GRACE: Chris, Chris...

PIXLEY: So actually the question really is, why in this case, where there`s all of this conjecture allowed in by the prosecution as to where her body was transported, how it was transported, it is strange that the defense wasn`t allowed to present this.

GRACE: You know what, Beth? I couldn`t disagree more in experiments, be they scientific or otherwise. You must fairly and accurately represent the circumstances proven in the case. Now, I assume this is on San Francisco Bay.

KARAS: Yes.

GRACE: You and I saw the boat together, Beth, remember?

KARAS: Right. This is the boat that became the shrine during jury deliberations.

GRACE: But, Beth, I mean, this confounds reason. I`m very surprised Geragos even tried to get this in because clearly only a moron would stay on this side of the boat while -- sorry, Beth. I`m going down. There you go.

KARAS: Well, no. Scott Peterson says he was out in the bay near a place called Brooks Island. And there are certain times of the day when, in the low tide, when you can walk from the shoreline out to Brooks Island. It is that shallow.

Maybe he got into shallow water and jumped out of the boat himself and stood knee-high and then took her body out of the boat. I mean, who knows? There are any number of ways he could have done it. The prosecution never said how. They didn`t know exactly how. All they know was he was in the bay that day. She is found in the bay, and her baby.

GRACE: Hey, Beth, the reality is, you and I have both written appeals, as has Chris Pixley.

The reality is -- yes, keep rolling that, Elizabeth.

The reality is, this likely will not get a reversal because you`ve got to show but for -- you have got to show a legal error and this could have persuaded the jury otherwise. I think this would have been horrible for the defense to bring it in. It`s ridiculous, Beth.

KARAS: Well, you know, I`m sure an appellate court will agree with you. This was one of the issues that Geragos raised in his motion for a new trial last week. It was argued, actually, before Scott Peterson was sentenced to death last Wednesday, the disallowing of this video, letting the jurors get in the actual boat, and sort of try to tip it a little during deliberations when it was steady on a trailer.

There were other issues that were argued, twelve points raised in the motion for a new trial. But this was one of them. This will probably get resurrected on appeal. But I agree with you. It`s not reversible error.

GRACE: Well, guess who`s probably going to disagree with us.

Final word, Chris Pixley?

PIXLEY: Well, no, I don`t disagree. Unfortunately, even if this is found to be an abuse of discretion, that`s the standard on appeal for this issue. I can`t imagine that it`ll be found to be abuse of discretion. But even if it were, the court then is likely to find that it`s harmless error, that there was enough other evidence presented in this case that it wouldn`t have changed the outcome of the trial.

I do think, unfortunately, though, for the defense, there was an awful lot of prosecution evidence allowed in about how Laci was transported, whether she was in a tool chest in the back of Scott Peterson`s truck, whether she was wrapped in a tarp, whether she was propped in the front seat wearing a hat. We don`t know how she was transported. He don`t know if she was transported by Scott Peterson to the bay. And yet all of this pure conjecture was allowed in, in the state`s case in chief, and a small videotape, this one minute videotape, isn`t allowed in for the defense.

GRACE: Chris, that was a beautiful sermon. But the reality is, he`s fishing where her body turned up. Yes, no, will this grant a reversal?

PIXLEY: No, absolutely not.

GRACE: Hey, Beth Karas, thank you, friend, for being with us tonight.

KARAS: My pleasure.

GRACE: I only wish, Beth, that the appellate court would actually watch this video. As you know, Beth, the appellate court doesn`t see evidence or hear evidence. They rule on the record. But if they saw this and saw this guy falling into the water, it defies reason.

KARAS: But I`m sure that the record does include a description. When both sides were making their arguments, it wasn`t done in open court, but I would imagine that they have described -- each side described what the video entails.

GRACE: Yes, yes, yes. Good point. Thanks, Beth. See you later, friend.

KARAS: My pleasure.

GRACE: We are taking a quick break.

When we come back, we are headed to California and the latest in the Michael Jackson trial. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: People say, "Why`s he always with children?" Well, I was raised in a world with adults. While kids were playing and in bed sleeping, I was out doing club. I was doing club dates, 3:00 in the morning. The striptease would come on after us. You know, we were performing. But we didn`t have friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is from the Michael Jackson rebuttal video. It was shot by a Jackson staffer.

Today, the prosecution plows ahead. Both sides on pins and needles as they wait for the judge to rule whether those additional claims of sex molestation, possibly two other young boys, will be allowed into evidence.

Tonight, in L.A., defense attorney David Wohl; in New York, defense attorney, Robert Gottleib; in Miami, prosecutor Stacey Honowitz; in New York, psychotherapist, Dr. Robi Ludwig.

But first, let`s go to Santa Maria, California, with "Inside Edition`s" senior correspondent Jim Moret.

Jim, bring me up to date.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Nancy, as you said, both sides are waiting for the judge`s ruling. That`s going to come on Monday.

Meanwhile, the prosecution continues to lay its ground work. Today, the prosecution was focusing on the theory that this family, the boy, his brother, his sister, his mother, were held against their will at Michael Jackson`s Neverland ranch.

And there was a witness on the stand who had befriended the family, and actually had given them some $20,000 after this young boy had cancer, and she said on the stand that she received a phone call from the mother. And the mother sounded fearful. And she said that the mother said to her, "You can`t trust whoever`s on this line. They can hear me. These people are evil."

And the witness said today she believes the family was being held against its will. And it was the same period of time that the prosecution says the family was held at Neverland ranch.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Who was the witness, Jim?

MORET: The witness was a comedian who ran this comedy club. And the accuser brother and sister were all part of this comedy camp for underprivileged kids.

GRACE: Got you.

MORET: She befriended the family. She gave them some $20,000. You have to remember, the defense had promised the jury in a contract of sorts they were going to bring on this woman to say this family`s a bad family. They were basically setting up celebrities asking them for money. The prosecution brought this woman on. She said, "The family never asked me for money. I gave them money out of the goodness of my heart. And I like this family."

GRACE: You know, Robert Gottleib, you are a veteran defense attorney. The defense attorney in Jackson, Mesereau, promised in opening statement he would bring on these various stars to show how this family tried to wring money out of them. This is the second time he`s been wrong so far.

ROBERT GOTTLEIB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. He wasn`t wrong at all, Nancy. We actually heard now that a comedian is being called -- I don`t care where he`s being called from.

GRACE: She.

GOTTLEIB: And she, in fact, winds up paying $20,000. This is not the normal relationship that victims of crime, where they`re reaching out -- whether reaching it`s to a Jay Leno, whether it`s to a comedian -- where they`re actually forking over $20,000. This witness, in fact, helps the defense.

GRACE: OK, Robert Gottleib, when you`re ready, take off those rose- tinted glasses, because that`s not what the witness said. I`m going to throw this to Stacey. You percolate for a moment.

GOTTLEIB: I`ll percolate.

GRACE: Stacey, did you hear that warped version of the testimony, Stacey? That`s not what the woman said.

STACEY HONOWITZ, PROSECUTOR: I heard the warped version. And I think Robert should know, as a veteran defense attorney, that a defense lawyer or a prosecutor, you should never get up in opening statement and make any promises, because you never know what a witness is going to say. And it`s going to backfire, because the prosecutor is going to get up in closing argument and say, "He promised you you were going to hear this. And you didn`t." And that`s not what Mesereau said.

GRACE: You know what? Very quickly back to Jim Moret.

Jim, my understanding of the testimony today, this was a female comic. We have already heard from another male comic earlier on. The female comic today says, "I met the boy. I met the family. I wrote them a $10,000 check. Later, the father -- not the mother -- the father asked me to help them again. I wrote another $10,000 check. I did it because I wanted to." Was that correct?

MORET: Yes. You`re right. And the significance is the father, the estranged ex-husband who has, in testimony been told to this jury, has beaten the kids and who was abusive in his relationship, he`s the one being vilified, not the mother. The mother, you have to remember, is the one who the defense has been vilifying all along, saying that they were shaking down celebrities. Well, that`s not what happened today.

GRACE: Hey, Elizabeth, before we go to break, can you roll that footage of the fan under the tarp? She`s getting it right now.

Apparently, today in the courthouse, a fan who said she saved herself for Michael Jackson, had not had sex, Robi, for 18 years, she is waiting to have -- that`s her screaming. That`s her. Not me. There she goes. Now, there`s a lady who knows how to make an exit, OK? That`s her. She is under that tarp.

Robi, this fan says she has not had sex for 18 years, that she is saving herself to have sex with Michael Jackson and have his children. Thoughts?

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. And I think it shows the power of celebrity and fame, where fans and people you have no idea who they are can have a real, sick transference to you.

GRACE: Robi, 18 years. She`s been saving herself...

LUDWIG: I know, all right.

GRACE: ... for Michael Jackson.

LUDWIG: OK, all right. And 18 years is not that long of time. But the point is, is that she really believes it, which shows that people can have a psychotic reaction to Michael Jackson.

GRACE: Woo, OK. You know what? The issue here is not the fan that got rolled out with the tarp over her head, but will celebrity affect the jury?

As we go to break, "Trial Tracking" update: John Evander Couey, before a Florida judge today by closed-circuit video, the judge denied Couey bond. Remember, Couey is being held for the murder of Jessica Lunsford. The judge told Couey what his crimes were. And he stated, quote, "they were beyond words." The judge also told Couey what he could look forward to if convicted of the murder and rape of nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are found guilty of this offense, sir, I am absolutely certain that your opportunity to satisfy your lust for power for the death of innocence will be ended. Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A public funeral for Jessie is set for Saturday. Family and friends say goodbye privately on Thursday and Friday.

And tonight, as we go to break, some good news. A Georgia Amber Alert has been called off. Early this morning, two children abducted, their mom raped, their grandfather shot and wounded. Police say the suspect, 27- year-old Terrence McDowell, kidnapped his girlfriend`s children after a violent rampage. Tonight, the children recovered safe and sound, but alert: McDowell`s still at large, considered armed and dangerous

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the Earth. I love the community of Santa Maria very much, my community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Evidence in the Michael Jackson trial still pouring from the witness stand. Today, Michael Jackson made it pretty much on time and wearing his pants.

Let me go to Jim Moret. He`s there at the courthouse.

Jim, what was his appearance in court today?

MORET: Considerably better than yesterday. Yesterday, he shuffled in, literally carried into court. Today, he walked slowly. He`s clearly not well. I fear that we are seeing him erode before our eyes. It seems to be getting to him.

GRACE: David Wohl, I have to agree with Jim Morel. Michael Jackson appears to be in a great deal of pain. How will this affect the jury, if at all?

DAVID WOHL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the question is, will the jury buy into this at all? Or is it malingering? Is it, in effect, an attempt to stoke up a sympathy for him? I don`t know about that. But I`ll tell you something. It is starting to remind me of Vinny "The Chin" Gigante, you remember the mob figure in New York...

GRACE: Came to court in...

WOHL: ... who used to walk around -- he walked around in a bathrobe mumbling to himself, trying to portray himself as some mobster madman.

GRACE: Got you.

WOHL: I don`t know. I don`t know if the jury`s going to buy into it. I don`t personally buy into it. I think there is some sort of malingering going on in an attempt to draw sympathy.

GRACE: You know, Stacey Honowitz is a prosecutor.

Stacey, I remember having a defendant come into the courtroom with tinfoil around his head. And I said, "You, tinfoil off. You`re going to trial. You`re not tricking me, OK?" I mean, what do you think? Jackson looks like he`s in pain to me.

HONOWITZ: Well, I don`t doubt that he`s in pain. But I have to agree, I think it might be an act. It might be malingering. But I`ll tell you, there`s one thing you have to be very careful about.

He stated yesterday that he was under some kind of medication. All the news and the media and people that are there keep saying he looked out of it. You know, you have to be very careful. This could be a set up for an appeal. "I didn`t know what was going on I was so out of it. I could not assist my lawyer." I mean, we are looking at points on appeal if he is convicted.

GRACE: Sneaky, sneaky.

HONOWITZ: So I don`t buy into it. I don`t know if the jury will.

GRACE: Sneaky, Stacey Honowitz, but smart, very smart.

What about it, Robert Gottleib?

GOTTLEIB: I think everyone is really over-blowing it. I think this is a situation -- it`s not like "Chin" Gigante because there he was trying to set up an insanity defense to avoid going to trial. Here we have a situation where he`s going to trial. This judge is too sharp to allow Michael Jackson to feign this mental illness to preserve some issue on appeal. Ultimately, this judge, I think we`re going to see, is going to be questioning him to make sure on the record it`s clear he knows exactly what`s going on.

GRACE: And very quickly to Dr. Robi Ludwig, the reality is, will he appear sick to the jury or will he simply appear unkempt?

LUDWIG: Yes, it`s hard to know, but I think people might feel sorry for him. That`s also a possibility. Look, he engaged this family. He treated them well. And now, look what they`re doing to him. And breaking down before our eyes.

GRACE: What about the child molestation?

LUDWIG: Well, it depends on who they believe.

GRACE: OK. Once again, Robi Ludwig, I guess you think it`s a false accusation, right?

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: No, I am not saying that. I wasn`t there, so I can`t say.

GRACE: You said it, Robi. You said it. OK.

Quick break, everyone. As we go to break, as you know, we here at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help find missing people. Take a look at Kristina Nelson. Look at that smile. She`s only 14-year-old, a runaway from Oswego, Illinois, missing since November.

If you have any info on Kristina Nelson -- take a look -- please call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, 1-800-THE-LOST. Please help us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I`m Sophia Choi. Let`s get to your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

At least three people were killed this evening in a bombing in Lebanon north of Beirut. Local media reports several other people were injured in the blast which happened in a shopping district in a predominantly Christian area.

NASA says it is on track for a Space Shuttle launch scheduled for may. It would be the first mission since the 2003 Columbia disaster. Officials say new safety guidelines will be in place for the planned May 15th launch.

And for the seventh time since June, the Federal Reserve is bumping up interest rates in an effort to keep a lid on inflation. The Fed is pushing its benchmark rate to 2.75 percent, a quarter point increase. Major banks are expected to follow suit and boost their prime lending rates.

That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

GRACE: Judge Rowland Barnes, loved, respected, a family man, gunned down more than a week ago at the Atlanta Fulton County Courthouse. Tonight, an exclusive interview with Judge Barnes` beautiful girl, his daughter, Kiley Barnes.

Welcome, sweet girl.

KILEY BARNES, DAUGHTER OF JUDGE ROWLAND BARNES: Thank you.

GRACE: You know, I came up through the ranks with your father before he got on the Superior Court bench. And I remember him so vividly around the courthouse, playing softball in the cafeteria. I mean, just so many memories of him that -- Kiley, when you think of it, what is your most vivid memory of your dad tonight?

BARNES: Well, Nancy, that`s kind of a hard question to answer. I`ve got so many. We were so close.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: But if I had to choose one, I would choose the very last time I saw him. And we were at an open house for a law school. And I wouldn`t have it any other way.

GRACE: What do you remember about the open house? What was he doing?

BARNES: Lecturing me.

GRACE: Lecturing you about what?

BARNES: Going to law school and achieving my dream. I`ve always wanted to be a lawyer. And, of course, he wanted that for me, as well.

GRACE: He wanted you to be a lawyer?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: He loved the law.

BARNES: Oh, I know.

GRACE: He loved the law.

BARNES: And he was good at it.

GRACE: What do you want to be a lawyer?

BARNES: When I was a kid, I wanted to be an entertainment lawyer, to meet people. But I believe that when I became a victim of a very violent crime from an abusive relationship, the prosecutor that prosecuted his case helped me get through one of the hardest times in my life. And she made a difference in my life.

And if I could touch one person the way that she touched me, then that`s the last straw for victims. That`s their last hope of justice. This is what the prosecutor is for, and they want this -- and they want the victims, you know, to be OK.

GRACE: That night at the open house, what was your father telling you about becoming a lawyer?

BARNES: Well, I wouldn`t necessarily say that he was talking about becoming a lawyer, because we talked about it so many times.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: But he just assured me that if, you know, if this is what you want to do, you`re going to be a good lawyer.

GRACE: Did he ever take you to court?

BARNES: Yes, oh yes.

GRACE: Tell me, when you were little?

BARNES: All the time. All the time. I used to, from the time I was -- when he was a family attorney, back before he was a magistrate court judge, I have a lot of memories of going to the courtrooms.

GRACE: Would you watch him try cases?

BARNES: Yes, ma`am, absolutely. I did that up until last month.

GRACE: I went with my parents to work, too. Up until last month you watched him on the bench?

BARNES: Always, whenever I had a chance to see Dad in court, I would always go see him. There was nothing that made my day more.

GRACE: Weren`t you proud of your dad?

BARNES: So proud. Words can`t express how proud I am to be called his daughter and to have his last name. Anybody that knows me will tell you that he`s my everything. And I am so proud that the world knows now, even under these circumstances, what a great man my father was, because I know that he touched...

GRACE: You know, a lot of times people don`t like judges. I plead guilty to that. We make up names for them. We don`t like their rulings. We think they`re unfair.

I never once, Kiley, heard a bad word about your father on the bench. And he ruled against some of my cases, but he was so well-reasoned. And his demeanor on the bench, lawyers walked out feeling that they had been listened to and respected. I did.

BARNES: Thank you. Absolutely. Anybody that talked to my father, whether they were a criminal who wanted legal advice or a judge who was a friend, would walk away feeling the same way.

GRACE: I think everybody did. Did your dad ever talk about his cases? Did he ever come home and he`d be upset about a case -- I know I did -- be upset about a case or worried?

BARNES: Well, maybe not -- he never expressed being upset to me, because his job is to be fair and impartial.

GRACE: Impartial, yes.

BARNES: He might have told me off the record sometimes how he felt, but he would never express any kind of opinion.

GRACE: Did you ever think, Kiley, that violence could intrude into a courtroom?

BARNES: Well, of course, I`ve seen it before. Actually, you know, when I interned at the D.A.`s office, I actually -- there was a gentleman who was on trial for kidnapping and rape. And the judge sentenced him to life plus 60, and he was very volatile. And his body language was such that you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.

GRACE: Were you ever worried about your dad?

BARNES: I was worried about Dad, but when this guy took a water pitcher and swung it in front of the victim -- I don`t know if you heard about it...

GRACE: I did.

BARNES: ... I was sitting in front of the victim. And the first thing I did was run to Gail Abramson to make sure she was OK, because she was the one, you know, trying to case. And I didn`t -- you know, they should have had him handcuffed, in my opinion. But you know, even defendants, I mean, knew how fair my father was.

GRACE: But did you ever worry about your dad? When he would go off to work in the morning, would you think, "This is a dangerous job"? Or would you think, "He`s a judge on the bench. Nothing`s going to happen to him"?

BARNES: Well, when we would go out places -- you know, I grew up in College Park.

GRACE: Right.

BARNES: And that`s where he lived. And we would go out places around College Park. And I would worry then. "Aren`t you scared you are going to see somebody on the street that you gave some time to?" No.

GRACE: What would he say?

BARNES: "No. No."

GRACE: Have you felt that your father`s spirit is with you this last week?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: Tell me.

BARNES: The color orange has played a big part in it.

GRACE: His favorite color? Yes.

BARNES: My father has spoken to me more in the past week than he probably did two weeks prior to -- and I am so grateful for that, the signs, the outpouring of support I have had.

GRACE: I know at the funeral -- I saw you at the funeral and the outpouring of grief, so many well-wishers praying for you, thinking of you. How did you get through that day?

BARNES: By the grace of God, go I. All I can say.

GRACE: Do you remember it or is it like a big blur?

BARNES: The past two weeks I do have parts that have been blurry but, no, I remember the funeral. I wouldn`t want to -- it was beautiful. It was a beautiful tribute to my dad, and it`s something I`ll always remember.

GRACE: Does the day of the shooting -- is that clear in your mind?

BARNES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: What do you recall?

BARNES: Well, I got a phone call from a friend saying, "Have you talked to your dad`s office? You need to go to Grady." I didn`t know anything.

GRACE: Of course, for our viewers, Grady is a downtown hospital with an emergency room. Go ahead.

BARNES: And I mentioned something about my dad. And there was an attorney in the office, Bill West (ph), who is a long-time -- been a long- time friend of my father, and he always worked in the office with. He sat me down and said, "Have you heard anything?" And I said, "No, what`s going on?" And he said, "There`s been a shooting. They don`t know if he`s going to survive."

At that time, I think he already knew, you know? But I walked outside and got a phone call from my stepmother. And she told me -- well, Lieutenant Smith was speaking on her behalf of Fulton County, and he told me. I told him I was going to find a ride to Grady. And he said there`s no need. And I hit the ground crying, didn`t know what to do, felt lost instantly. But the only thing I could think to do was run to Lee Sexton`s office.

GRACE: Yes, another lawyer.

BARNES: And a long-time friend of my father`s. And he was right next door. And thank God for him, because I would have lost it.

GRACE: We will be right back. With us is Judge Rowland Barnes` daughter, Kiley. He inspired her to want to become a lawyer herself. That is who Rowland Barnes was. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JUSTICE DORRIS DOWNS, FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: Judge Barnes was one of the most generous judges ever. He was willing to help out every judge on the bench. He took cases from judges that felt overwhelmed. I know he took many murder cases from a judge or two to try to move them. He was a happy judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH MARKOWITZ, FULTON COUNTY PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE: Judge Barnes was very good about not making a pre-judgment on a case and not deciding based on the charges how thing were going, but would listen to the evidence. And I think that`s something that we all should all keep in mind. That`s what he would have wanted. Is you can`t...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds like a true public defender.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. With us here in our New York studio, Judge Barnes` daughter, his beautiful girl, Kiley, who wants to go to law school herself.

Kiley, I want to hear about your dad when you were growing up.

BARNES: Well, we were so close that he...

GRACE: He talked about you all the time.

BARNES: Thank you. I talked about him all the time, still do.

I mean, the earliest -- some of the earliest memories that I have of my father are literally of him, of course, "When you became a lawyer, are you going to take care of me in my old age?" But I remember him bundling me up in the middle of the night and taking me to the Hayesville Police Department to sign warrants.

I remember the Hayesville police coming to the house in the middle of the night, 3 o`clock in the morning. It didn`t matter. Dad would get up and make them coffee if they needed a warrant signed.

GRACE: So the cops would come to your house at 3 o`clock in the morning for your dad to sign a warrant, that he was a magistrate?

BARNES: Yes.

GRACE: He`d make them coffee?

BARNES: He would offer it to them. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I do want to share this. I literally -- I was about seven or eight. And we went to a Christmas party. I don`t know who this gentleman was, but he kept complimenting my dad on his shirt. And it`s one of those Coca-Cola shirts.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: It had the solid color up here, and then right the middle.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: My dad literally gave him the shirt off his back.

GRACE: He did not.

BARNES: Yes, he did.

GRACE: He took his shirt off and gave it to him?

BARNES: He had a white t-shirt on underneath it. My dad always wore white t-shirts. He literally gave the shirt off this guy -- I don`t know who the guy was, but I will never forget that. I mean, that just speaks volumes about anybody, but it really wouldn`t surprise anybody who knew my dad.

GRACE: At the Christmas party?

BARNES: Took it off right there. It was orange, his favorite color.

GRACE: So when your dad had to go for whatever proceeding, probably signing warrants or hearing cops sworn in to sign a warrant, he would take it even in the middle of the night?

BARNES: When I was a kid.

GRACE: When you were a kid, yes.

BARNES: And then, eventually, when I got old enough, probably about eight or nine, he would, instead of going through the hassle, which I know it was, because he did it about three or four times a week, he would -- we had a little signal. If the hall light was on, and I woke up, and he wasn`t there, that he would be back soon, because he went to Hayesville to sign a warrant. And that`s a good memory.

GRACE: You know, I don`t think people understand that judges are on call day and night. They really are. But I bet he never complained, did he?

BARNES: Not once.

GRACE: Not once. Do you remember the day he made Superior Court judge?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: I remember it, too. Tell me what you remember.

BARNES: Well, the day he made it or the day he was sworn in, which?

GRACE: Well, tell me both.

BARNES: Well, I was life-guarding there at College Park. And he called me after he got out of the interview. And he told me...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: Oh, yes. And he had tried so -- Nancy, you know.

GRACE: Oh, yes, he tried for a while.

BARNES: He had tried so long. And it was Miller`s last term in office and...

GRACE: Zell Miller.

BARNES: And we were afraid that, you know...

GRACE: He wouldn`t make it.

BARNES: ... he wouldn`t make it if he didn`t get it this time. So he called me when I was life-guarding. And he was so happy. I was crying. He was crying.

GRACE: He made it.

BARNES: He made it. And that was his ultimate goal. And he worked so hard to get there. And I couldn`t have been prouder, ever, of my father. And the day that he was appointed was just -- you know, the judges that got appointed with him gave thank you speeches.

My dad spoke about the foundation of this country, spoke about what that meant to him and why his position and somebody in his position, in their position, why it was so important for them to do right by the name of justice. And there wasn`t a dry eye in the auditorium. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was like he was born to speak. And, you know, I was very proud of him that day.

GRACE: I remember the day it was announced that he had been named judge. And prosecutors and defense attorneys alike, everybody said, "Thank God somebody like Barnes has been named to the bench," on all sides of the courtroom.

BARNES: Yes.

GRACE: How are your days now?

BARNES: Well, you know, I still refer to him in present tense.

GRACE: I know.

BARNES: And I don`t mean to, but, you know, I had a good friend tell me last week that that means I haven`t accepted that he`s gone yet. But I`m just not used to it. You know, my dad was my best friend, and sometimes my worst enemy, but he was my rock in life. He pushed me to persevere my dream, my dream. He might have wanted it for me, but this has always been my dream and it`s my destiny to be a lawyer.

GRACE: I think you are right. I think it is your destiny. I certainly know it`s in your blood.

Everybody, we are going to break. Kiley`s staying with us.

Quickly to "Trial Tracking": Today, Terri Schiavo`s parents make an appeal after a federal judge refused an emergency request to restore their daughter`s feeding. Even Congress and the president injected themselves. The feeding tube disconnected Friday by order of a Florida judge. Schiavo has severe brain damage. She will die within days if her nourishment does not resume.

Local news next for some of you, but Kiley and I will be right back. And remember, live coverage of the Jackson trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments." Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: If you are a crime victim with a story to tell, know of an injustice or a case that needs a spotlight, call 888-GRACE-01 or visit our Web site, CNN.com/NancyGrace.

Welcome back, everybody. With me here in the studio, a special guest, Kiley Barnes, Judge Barnes` daughter. You are all familiar with the Atlanta courthouse shooting by now.

Kiley, if you could say something to your dad right now, what would you tell him?

BARNES: I could say something to him right now?

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: He is missed more than what he probably ever would have imagined, not just me, but everybody. Everybody was my dad`s best friend. That`s the way he made them feel. And I want him to know that.

GRACE: For those people that never got to know the judge, just tell me about him a tiny bit. Remember what you told me about once you had a conversation with your dad, when you walked away, how you felt?

BARNES: Well, no. I said that anybody, if you ever had the privilege, and I`m going to call it a privilege and a honor of having a conversation with my father...

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: ... you would walk away with a warm feeling on the inside. And talking to him would make you feel like you accomplished something in life.

GRACE: Well, you know something, Miss Kiley? It must run in his blood, because we feel that way after meeting with you, OK?

BARNES: Thank you very much.

GRACE: I want to thank all of my guests tonight. My special guest, Kiley Barnes. I want to thank Jim Moret, David Wohl, Robert Gottleib, Stacey Honowitz, Robi Ludwig, Beth Karas, Chris Pixley.

But our biggest thank you, as always, is to you for being with us and inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you here tomorrow night, I hope, 8 o`clock sharp. Until then, good night, friend.

END


Aired March 22, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, video surfaces and the Scott Peterson defense team says it will get them a reversal -- that`s right, a reversal - - in the double-murder trial. Peterson is facing a California death penalty for the murders of his wife, Laci, and their unborn baby boy, Conner. The jury never saw the video. But tonight, you and I will watch it together.
And Michael Jackson back in court today, on time and wearing his pants. The prosecution continued calling witnesses while we wait for Judge Melville to decide whether Jackson`s alleged past bad acts with the other boys will come before the jury.

And her father was a respected and beloved superior court judge, Rowland Barnes, murdered on the bench in the Atlanta courthouse. Tonight, an exclusive interview with his girl, his daughter, Kiley Barnes.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us this evening.

Judge Rowland Barnes was one of the most respected and admired judges to ever take the bench in Atlanta Fulton County. And you know, I don`t give judges a lot of slack, but this was a judge that made me proud to be a lawyer.

His life, tragically cut short when a rape and sodomy defendant, on his way to trial, grabbed a deputy`s gun and went on a rampage. Four innocent people murdered that day, all at the hands of Brian Nichols, the alleged shooter.

Tonight, we talk exclusively to Kiley Barnes, his beautiful daughter, about her father and the day of the shootings.

And in the Michael Jackson trial, the child sex case, today testimony continues to pour -- pour -- from the witness stand for the prosecution. Both sides waiting for the judge`s ruling as to whether the jury will ever learn about other boys who claim Jackson molested them, as well.

But first, it`s the video Scott Peterson`s defense team claimed would prove he`s innocent. Now, let`s see what you think.

With me tonight from Atlanta, defense attorney Chris Pixley and, in New York, Court TV`s Beth Karas. Beth covered the case from day one.

OK, Elizabeth, do we have the video ready? Let`s roll that video. OK. This is what the defense wanted to show the jury.

Beth, tell me what we`re seeing.

BETH KARAS, COURT TV: We are someone who works for Mark Geragos. His name is Raffi in the boat in a wet suit. And the dummy is behind him. That`s the dummy the defense created to be approximately the dimensions and the weight of Laci Peterson. She was 153 pounds when she went missing. Now, Raffi is going to attempt to throw this dummy overboard the way the prosecution says Scott Peterson did.

GRACE: Yes, and right there...

(CROSSTALK)

KARAS: They don`t know where she was in the boat, of course, or how he dumped her out of the boat.

GRACE: Right. And, Beth, I don`t know if you can see the video you`re your studio, but there is, as you said, Raffi back in the back, got on a wetsuit. He`s struggling with this dummy that they have set up to be -- uh-oh, uh-oh, Beth. He sees the boat is tipping.

But is he -- he`s turning the boat over. There we go. Water in the boat, Beth. Poor Scott Peterson. He got wet. Uh-oh, here we go. We`re swimming. OK, Beth, why was this disallowed into evidence?

KARAS: Well, the defense could not replicate the conditions. This is the San Francisco Bay where Scott Peterson went, but they can`t replicate the weather and water conditions of that day. More importantly, exactly what the weight distribution was in the boat, where she was in the boat, where he was.

Did he throw her over the front of the boat? Did he stand to one side while throwing her off the other side, trying to balance the boat? Raffi didn`t attempt to do that. We didn`t see him trying to distribute his weight to balance the boat.

GRACE: Got you.

KARAS: I don`t know how many attempts they made.

GRACE: Oh, yes, that`s a good point, Beth. I wonder how many takes they took on this thing before they got to this video.

OK, let`s hear from the defense side. Chris Pixley, I don`t know if you`re an avid fisherman or not, but even I, who am not, have the good sense to note that when the boat is tipping over to one side to go to the other side of the boat, Chris.

CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you make a good point. There`s an open question as to whether or not this would have influenced the jury the way the defense wanted them to. I don`t think that this videotape demonstrates that the body dumping would have sunk the boat.

GRACE: Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Chris, roll up your pants. Roll up your pants. We are getting wet. Here we go.

No wonder the judge didn`t allow it in. But, Chris, if you are making the argument for the defense, why should this come in? It`s ridiculous.

PIXLEY: Well, Nancy, remember that event reconstructions of this kind are commonly allowed into evidence as long as the circumstances are roughly equivalent, not perfectly equivalent, but roughly equivalent to the conditions on that day.

I`ve been involved in California appeals where the state has actually put into evidence event reconstructions involving murders at sea where they did not have the same weather, it wasn`t even the same time of year, the didn`t have the same conditions, you had a body that was 80 pounds heavier than the subject, and the courts still allowed it in.

GRACE: Chris, Chris...

PIXLEY: So actually the question really is, why in this case, where there`s all of this conjecture allowed in by the prosecution as to where her body was transported, how it was transported, it is strange that the defense wasn`t allowed to present this.

GRACE: You know what, Beth? I couldn`t disagree more in experiments, be they scientific or otherwise. You must fairly and accurately represent the circumstances proven in the case. Now, I assume this is on San Francisco Bay.

KARAS: Yes.

GRACE: You and I saw the boat together, Beth, remember?

KARAS: Right. This is the boat that became the shrine during jury deliberations.

GRACE: But, Beth, I mean, this confounds reason. I`m very surprised Geragos even tried to get this in because clearly only a moron would stay on this side of the boat while -- sorry, Beth. I`m going down. There you go.

KARAS: Well, no. Scott Peterson says he was out in the bay near a place called Brooks Island. And there are certain times of the day when, in the low tide, when you can walk from the shoreline out to Brooks Island. It is that shallow.

Maybe he got into shallow water and jumped out of the boat himself and stood knee-high and then took her body out of the boat. I mean, who knows? There are any number of ways he could have done it. The prosecution never said how. They didn`t know exactly how. All they know was he was in the bay that day. She is found in the bay, and her baby.

GRACE: Hey, Beth, the reality is, you and I have both written appeals, as has Chris Pixley.

The reality is -- yes, keep rolling that, Elizabeth.

The reality is, this likely will not get a reversal because you`ve got to show but for -- you have got to show a legal error and this could have persuaded the jury otherwise. I think this would have been horrible for the defense to bring it in. It`s ridiculous, Beth.

KARAS: Well, you know, I`m sure an appellate court will agree with you. This was one of the issues that Geragos raised in his motion for a new trial last week. It was argued, actually, before Scott Peterson was sentenced to death last Wednesday, the disallowing of this video, letting the jurors get in the actual boat, and sort of try to tip it a little during deliberations when it was steady on a trailer.

There were other issues that were argued, twelve points raised in the motion for a new trial. But this was one of them. This will probably get resurrected on appeal. But I agree with you. It`s not reversible error.

GRACE: Well, guess who`s probably going to disagree with us.

Final word, Chris Pixley?

PIXLEY: Well, no, I don`t disagree. Unfortunately, even if this is found to be an abuse of discretion, that`s the standard on appeal for this issue. I can`t imagine that it`ll be found to be abuse of discretion. But even if it were, the court then is likely to find that it`s harmless error, that there was enough other evidence presented in this case that it wouldn`t have changed the outcome of the trial.

I do think, unfortunately, though, for the defense, there was an awful lot of prosecution evidence allowed in about how Laci was transported, whether she was in a tool chest in the back of Scott Peterson`s truck, whether she was wrapped in a tarp, whether she was propped in the front seat wearing a hat. We don`t know how she was transported. He don`t know if she was transported by Scott Peterson to the bay. And yet all of this pure conjecture was allowed in, in the state`s case in chief, and a small videotape, this one minute videotape, isn`t allowed in for the defense.

GRACE: Chris, that was a beautiful sermon. But the reality is, he`s fishing where her body turned up. Yes, no, will this grant a reversal?

PIXLEY: No, absolutely not.

GRACE: Hey, Beth Karas, thank you, friend, for being with us tonight.

KARAS: My pleasure.

GRACE: I only wish, Beth, that the appellate court would actually watch this video. As you know, Beth, the appellate court doesn`t see evidence or hear evidence. They rule on the record. But if they saw this and saw this guy falling into the water, it defies reason.

KARAS: But I`m sure that the record does include a description. When both sides were making their arguments, it wasn`t done in open court, but I would imagine that they have described -- each side described what the video entails.

GRACE: Yes, yes, yes. Good point. Thanks, Beth. See you later, friend.

KARAS: My pleasure.

GRACE: We are taking a quick break.

When we come back, we are headed to California and the latest in the Michael Jackson trial. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: People say, "Why`s he always with children?" Well, I was raised in a world with adults. While kids were playing and in bed sleeping, I was out doing club. I was doing club dates, 3:00 in the morning. The striptease would come on after us. You know, we were performing. But we didn`t have friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is from the Michael Jackson rebuttal video. It was shot by a Jackson staffer.

Today, the prosecution plows ahead. Both sides on pins and needles as they wait for the judge to rule whether those additional claims of sex molestation, possibly two other young boys, will be allowed into evidence.

Tonight, in L.A., defense attorney David Wohl; in New York, defense attorney, Robert Gottleib; in Miami, prosecutor Stacey Honowitz; in New York, psychotherapist, Dr. Robi Ludwig.

But first, let`s go to Santa Maria, California, with "Inside Edition`s" senior correspondent Jim Moret.

Jim, bring me up to date.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Nancy, as you said, both sides are waiting for the judge`s ruling. That`s going to come on Monday.

Meanwhile, the prosecution continues to lay its ground work. Today, the prosecution was focusing on the theory that this family, the boy, his brother, his sister, his mother, were held against their will at Michael Jackson`s Neverland ranch.

And there was a witness on the stand who had befriended the family, and actually had given them some $20,000 after this young boy had cancer, and she said on the stand that she received a phone call from the mother. And the mother sounded fearful. And she said that the mother said to her, "You can`t trust whoever`s on this line. They can hear me. These people are evil."

And the witness said today she believes the family was being held against its will. And it was the same period of time that the prosecution says the family was held at Neverland ranch.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Who was the witness, Jim?

MORET: The witness was a comedian who ran this comedy club. And the accuser brother and sister were all part of this comedy camp for underprivileged kids.

GRACE: Got you.

MORET: She befriended the family. She gave them some $20,000. You have to remember, the defense had promised the jury in a contract of sorts they were going to bring on this woman to say this family`s a bad family. They were basically setting up celebrities asking them for money. The prosecution brought this woman on. She said, "The family never asked me for money. I gave them money out of the goodness of my heart. And I like this family."

GRACE: You know, Robert Gottleib, you are a veteran defense attorney. The defense attorney in Jackson, Mesereau, promised in opening statement he would bring on these various stars to show how this family tried to wring money out of them. This is the second time he`s been wrong so far.

ROBERT GOTTLEIB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. He wasn`t wrong at all, Nancy. We actually heard now that a comedian is being called -- I don`t care where he`s being called from.

GRACE: She.

GOTTLEIB: And she, in fact, winds up paying $20,000. This is not the normal relationship that victims of crime, where they`re reaching out -- whether reaching it`s to a Jay Leno, whether it`s to a comedian -- where they`re actually forking over $20,000. This witness, in fact, helps the defense.

GRACE: OK, Robert Gottleib, when you`re ready, take off those rose- tinted glasses, because that`s not what the witness said. I`m going to throw this to Stacey. You percolate for a moment.

GOTTLEIB: I`ll percolate.

GRACE: Stacey, did you hear that warped version of the testimony, Stacey? That`s not what the woman said.

STACEY HONOWITZ, PROSECUTOR: I heard the warped version. And I think Robert should know, as a veteran defense attorney, that a defense lawyer or a prosecutor, you should never get up in opening statement and make any promises, because you never know what a witness is going to say. And it`s going to backfire, because the prosecutor is going to get up in closing argument and say, "He promised you you were going to hear this. And you didn`t." And that`s not what Mesereau said.

GRACE: You know what? Very quickly back to Jim Moret.

Jim, my understanding of the testimony today, this was a female comic. We have already heard from another male comic earlier on. The female comic today says, "I met the boy. I met the family. I wrote them a $10,000 check. Later, the father -- not the mother -- the father asked me to help them again. I wrote another $10,000 check. I did it because I wanted to." Was that correct?

MORET: Yes. You`re right. And the significance is the father, the estranged ex-husband who has, in testimony been told to this jury, has beaten the kids and who was abusive in his relationship, he`s the one being vilified, not the mother. The mother, you have to remember, is the one who the defense has been vilifying all along, saying that they were shaking down celebrities. Well, that`s not what happened today.

GRACE: Hey, Elizabeth, before we go to break, can you roll that footage of the fan under the tarp? She`s getting it right now.

Apparently, today in the courthouse, a fan who said she saved herself for Michael Jackson, had not had sex, Robi, for 18 years, she is waiting to have -- that`s her screaming. That`s her. Not me. There she goes. Now, there`s a lady who knows how to make an exit, OK? That`s her. She is under that tarp.

Robi, this fan says she has not had sex for 18 years, that she is saving herself to have sex with Michael Jackson and have his children. Thoughts?

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. And I think it shows the power of celebrity and fame, where fans and people you have no idea who they are can have a real, sick transference to you.

GRACE: Robi, 18 years. She`s been saving herself...

LUDWIG: I know, all right.

GRACE: ... for Michael Jackson.

LUDWIG: OK, all right. And 18 years is not that long of time. But the point is, is that she really believes it, which shows that people can have a psychotic reaction to Michael Jackson.

GRACE: Woo, OK. You know what? The issue here is not the fan that got rolled out with the tarp over her head, but will celebrity affect the jury?

As we go to break, "Trial Tracking" update: John Evander Couey, before a Florida judge today by closed-circuit video, the judge denied Couey bond. Remember, Couey is being held for the murder of Jessica Lunsford. The judge told Couey what his crimes were. And he stated, quote, "they were beyond words." The judge also told Couey what he could look forward to if convicted of the murder and rape of nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are found guilty of this offense, sir, I am absolutely certain that your opportunity to satisfy your lust for power for the death of innocence will be ended. Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A public funeral for Jessie is set for Saturday. Family and friends say goodbye privately on Thursday and Friday.

And tonight, as we go to break, some good news. A Georgia Amber Alert has been called off. Early this morning, two children abducted, their mom raped, their grandfather shot and wounded. Police say the suspect, 27- year-old Terrence McDowell, kidnapped his girlfriend`s children after a violent rampage. Tonight, the children recovered safe and sound, but alert: McDowell`s still at large, considered armed and dangerous

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the Earth. I love the community of Santa Maria very much, my community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Evidence in the Michael Jackson trial still pouring from the witness stand. Today, Michael Jackson made it pretty much on time and wearing his pants.

Let me go to Jim Moret. He`s there at the courthouse.

Jim, what was his appearance in court today?

MORET: Considerably better than yesterday. Yesterday, he shuffled in, literally carried into court. Today, he walked slowly. He`s clearly not well. I fear that we are seeing him erode before our eyes. It seems to be getting to him.

GRACE: David Wohl, I have to agree with Jim Morel. Michael Jackson appears to be in a great deal of pain. How will this affect the jury, if at all?

DAVID WOHL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the question is, will the jury buy into this at all? Or is it malingering? Is it, in effect, an attempt to stoke up a sympathy for him? I don`t know about that. But I`ll tell you something. It is starting to remind me of Vinny "The Chin" Gigante, you remember the mob figure in New York...

GRACE: Came to court in...

WOHL: ... who used to walk around -- he walked around in a bathrobe mumbling to himself, trying to portray himself as some mobster madman.

GRACE: Got you.

WOHL: I don`t know. I don`t know if the jury`s going to buy into it. I don`t personally buy into it. I think there is some sort of malingering going on in an attempt to draw sympathy.

GRACE: You know, Stacey Honowitz is a prosecutor.

Stacey, I remember having a defendant come into the courtroom with tinfoil around his head. And I said, "You, tinfoil off. You`re going to trial. You`re not tricking me, OK?" I mean, what do you think? Jackson looks like he`s in pain to me.

HONOWITZ: Well, I don`t doubt that he`s in pain. But I have to agree, I think it might be an act. It might be malingering. But I`ll tell you, there`s one thing you have to be very careful about.

He stated yesterday that he was under some kind of medication. All the news and the media and people that are there keep saying he looked out of it. You know, you have to be very careful. This could be a set up for an appeal. "I didn`t know what was going on I was so out of it. I could not assist my lawyer." I mean, we are looking at points on appeal if he is convicted.

GRACE: Sneaky, sneaky.

HONOWITZ: So I don`t buy into it. I don`t know if the jury will.

GRACE: Sneaky, Stacey Honowitz, but smart, very smart.

What about it, Robert Gottleib?

GOTTLEIB: I think everyone is really over-blowing it. I think this is a situation -- it`s not like "Chin" Gigante because there he was trying to set up an insanity defense to avoid going to trial. Here we have a situation where he`s going to trial. This judge is too sharp to allow Michael Jackson to feign this mental illness to preserve some issue on appeal. Ultimately, this judge, I think we`re going to see, is going to be questioning him to make sure on the record it`s clear he knows exactly what`s going on.

GRACE: And very quickly to Dr. Robi Ludwig, the reality is, will he appear sick to the jury or will he simply appear unkempt?

LUDWIG: Yes, it`s hard to know, but I think people might feel sorry for him. That`s also a possibility. Look, he engaged this family. He treated them well. And now, look what they`re doing to him. And breaking down before our eyes.

GRACE: What about the child molestation?

LUDWIG: Well, it depends on who they believe.

GRACE: OK. Once again, Robi Ludwig, I guess you think it`s a false accusation, right?

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: No, I am not saying that. I wasn`t there, so I can`t say.

GRACE: You said it, Robi. You said it. OK.

Quick break, everyone. As we go to break, as you know, we here at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help find missing people. Take a look at Kristina Nelson. Look at that smile. She`s only 14-year-old, a runaway from Oswego, Illinois, missing since November.

If you have any info on Kristina Nelson -- take a look -- please call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, 1-800-THE-LOST. Please help us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I`m Sophia Choi. Let`s get to your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

At least three people were killed this evening in a bombing in Lebanon north of Beirut. Local media reports several other people were injured in the blast which happened in a shopping district in a predominantly Christian area.

NASA says it is on track for a Space Shuttle launch scheduled for may. It would be the first mission since the 2003 Columbia disaster. Officials say new safety guidelines will be in place for the planned May 15th launch.

And for the seventh time since June, the Federal Reserve is bumping up interest rates in an effort to keep a lid on inflation. The Fed is pushing its benchmark rate to 2.75 percent, a quarter point increase. Major banks are expected to follow suit and boost their prime lending rates.

That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

GRACE: Judge Rowland Barnes, loved, respected, a family man, gunned down more than a week ago at the Atlanta Fulton County Courthouse. Tonight, an exclusive interview with Judge Barnes` beautiful girl, his daughter, Kiley Barnes.

Welcome, sweet girl.

KILEY BARNES, DAUGHTER OF JUDGE ROWLAND BARNES: Thank you.

GRACE: You know, I came up through the ranks with your father before he got on the Superior Court bench. And I remember him so vividly around the courthouse, playing softball in the cafeteria. I mean, just so many memories of him that -- Kiley, when you think of it, what is your most vivid memory of your dad tonight?

BARNES: Well, Nancy, that`s kind of a hard question to answer. I`ve got so many. We were so close.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: But if I had to choose one, I would choose the very last time I saw him. And we were at an open house for a law school. And I wouldn`t have it any other way.

GRACE: What do you remember about the open house? What was he doing?

BARNES: Lecturing me.

GRACE: Lecturing you about what?

BARNES: Going to law school and achieving my dream. I`ve always wanted to be a lawyer. And, of course, he wanted that for me, as well.

GRACE: He wanted you to be a lawyer?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: He loved the law.

BARNES: Oh, I know.

GRACE: He loved the law.

BARNES: And he was good at it.

GRACE: What do you want to be a lawyer?

BARNES: When I was a kid, I wanted to be an entertainment lawyer, to meet people. But I believe that when I became a victim of a very violent crime from an abusive relationship, the prosecutor that prosecuted his case helped me get through one of the hardest times in my life. And she made a difference in my life.

And if I could touch one person the way that she touched me, then that`s the last straw for victims. That`s their last hope of justice. This is what the prosecutor is for, and they want this -- and they want the victims, you know, to be OK.

GRACE: That night at the open house, what was your father telling you about becoming a lawyer?

BARNES: Well, I wouldn`t necessarily say that he was talking about becoming a lawyer, because we talked about it so many times.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: But he just assured me that if, you know, if this is what you want to do, you`re going to be a good lawyer.

GRACE: Did he ever take you to court?

BARNES: Yes, oh yes.

GRACE: Tell me, when you were little?

BARNES: All the time. All the time. I used to, from the time I was -- when he was a family attorney, back before he was a magistrate court judge, I have a lot of memories of going to the courtrooms.

GRACE: Would you watch him try cases?

BARNES: Yes, ma`am, absolutely. I did that up until last month.

GRACE: I went with my parents to work, too. Up until last month you watched him on the bench?

BARNES: Always, whenever I had a chance to see Dad in court, I would always go see him. There was nothing that made my day more.

GRACE: Weren`t you proud of your dad?

BARNES: So proud. Words can`t express how proud I am to be called his daughter and to have his last name. Anybody that knows me will tell you that he`s my everything. And I am so proud that the world knows now, even under these circumstances, what a great man my father was, because I know that he touched...

GRACE: You know, a lot of times people don`t like judges. I plead guilty to that. We make up names for them. We don`t like their rulings. We think they`re unfair.

I never once, Kiley, heard a bad word about your father on the bench. And he ruled against some of my cases, but he was so well-reasoned. And his demeanor on the bench, lawyers walked out feeling that they had been listened to and respected. I did.

BARNES: Thank you. Absolutely. Anybody that talked to my father, whether they were a criminal who wanted legal advice or a judge who was a friend, would walk away feeling the same way.

GRACE: I think everybody did. Did your dad ever talk about his cases? Did he ever come home and he`d be upset about a case -- I know I did -- be upset about a case or worried?

BARNES: Well, maybe not -- he never expressed being upset to me, because his job is to be fair and impartial.

GRACE: Impartial, yes.

BARNES: He might have told me off the record sometimes how he felt, but he would never express any kind of opinion.

GRACE: Did you ever think, Kiley, that violence could intrude into a courtroom?

BARNES: Well, of course, I`ve seen it before. Actually, you know, when I interned at the D.A.`s office, I actually -- there was a gentleman who was on trial for kidnapping and rape. And the judge sentenced him to life plus 60, and he was very volatile. And his body language was such that you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.

GRACE: Were you ever worried about your dad?

BARNES: I was worried about Dad, but when this guy took a water pitcher and swung it in front of the victim -- I don`t know if you heard about it...

GRACE: I did.

BARNES: ... I was sitting in front of the victim. And the first thing I did was run to Gail Abramson to make sure she was OK, because she was the one, you know, trying to case. And I didn`t -- you know, they should have had him handcuffed, in my opinion. But you know, even defendants, I mean, knew how fair my father was.

GRACE: But did you ever worry about your dad? When he would go off to work in the morning, would you think, "This is a dangerous job"? Or would you think, "He`s a judge on the bench. Nothing`s going to happen to him"?

BARNES: Well, when we would go out places -- you know, I grew up in College Park.

GRACE: Right.

BARNES: And that`s where he lived. And we would go out places around College Park. And I would worry then. "Aren`t you scared you are going to see somebody on the street that you gave some time to?" No.

GRACE: What would he say?

BARNES: "No. No."

GRACE: Have you felt that your father`s spirit is with you this last week?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: Tell me.

BARNES: The color orange has played a big part in it.

GRACE: His favorite color? Yes.

BARNES: My father has spoken to me more in the past week than he probably did two weeks prior to -- and I am so grateful for that, the signs, the outpouring of support I have had.

GRACE: I know at the funeral -- I saw you at the funeral and the outpouring of grief, so many well-wishers praying for you, thinking of you. How did you get through that day?

BARNES: By the grace of God, go I. All I can say.

GRACE: Do you remember it or is it like a big blur?

BARNES: The past two weeks I do have parts that have been blurry but, no, I remember the funeral. I wouldn`t want to -- it was beautiful. It was a beautiful tribute to my dad, and it`s something I`ll always remember.

GRACE: Does the day of the shooting -- is that clear in your mind?

BARNES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: What do you recall?

BARNES: Well, I got a phone call from a friend saying, "Have you talked to your dad`s office? You need to go to Grady." I didn`t know anything.

GRACE: Of course, for our viewers, Grady is a downtown hospital with an emergency room. Go ahead.

BARNES: And I mentioned something about my dad. And there was an attorney in the office, Bill West (ph), who is a long-time -- been a long- time friend of my father, and he always worked in the office with. He sat me down and said, "Have you heard anything?" And I said, "No, what`s going on?" And he said, "There`s been a shooting. They don`t know if he`s going to survive."

At that time, I think he already knew, you know? But I walked outside and got a phone call from my stepmother. And she told me -- well, Lieutenant Smith was speaking on her behalf of Fulton County, and he told me. I told him I was going to find a ride to Grady. And he said there`s no need. And I hit the ground crying, didn`t know what to do, felt lost instantly. But the only thing I could think to do was run to Lee Sexton`s office.

GRACE: Yes, another lawyer.

BARNES: And a long-time friend of my father`s. And he was right next door. And thank God for him, because I would have lost it.

GRACE: We will be right back. With us is Judge Rowland Barnes` daughter, Kiley. He inspired her to want to become a lawyer herself. That is who Rowland Barnes was. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JUSTICE DORRIS DOWNS, FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: Judge Barnes was one of the most generous judges ever. He was willing to help out every judge on the bench. He took cases from judges that felt overwhelmed. I know he took many murder cases from a judge or two to try to move them. He was a happy judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH MARKOWITZ, FULTON COUNTY PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE: Judge Barnes was very good about not making a pre-judgment on a case and not deciding based on the charges how thing were going, but would listen to the evidence. And I think that`s something that we all should all keep in mind. That`s what he would have wanted. Is you can`t...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds like a true public defender.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. With us here in our New York studio, Judge Barnes` daughter, his beautiful girl, Kiley, who wants to go to law school herself.

Kiley, I want to hear about your dad when you were growing up.

BARNES: Well, we were so close that he...

GRACE: He talked about you all the time.

BARNES: Thank you. I talked about him all the time, still do.

I mean, the earliest -- some of the earliest memories that I have of my father are literally of him, of course, "When you became a lawyer, are you going to take care of me in my old age?" But I remember him bundling me up in the middle of the night and taking me to the Hayesville Police Department to sign warrants.

I remember the Hayesville police coming to the house in the middle of the night, 3 o`clock in the morning. It didn`t matter. Dad would get up and make them coffee if they needed a warrant signed.

GRACE: So the cops would come to your house at 3 o`clock in the morning for your dad to sign a warrant, that he was a magistrate?

BARNES: Yes.

GRACE: He`d make them coffee?

BARNES: He would offer it to them. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I do want to share this. I literally -- I was about seven or eight. And we went to a Christmas party. I don`t know who this gentleman was, but he kept complimenting my dad on his shirt. And it`s one of those Coca-Cola shirts.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: It had the solid color up here, and then right the middle.

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: My dad literally gave him the shirt off his back.

GRACE: He did not.

BARNES: Yes, he did.

GRACE: He took his shirt off and gave it to him?

BARNES: He had a white t-shirt on underneath it. My dad always wore white t-shirts. He literally gave the shirt off this guy -- I don`t know who the guy was, but I will never forget that. I mean, that just speaks volumes about anybody, but it really wouldn`t surprise anybody who knew my dad.

GRACE: At the Christmas party?

BARNES: Took it off right there. It was orange, his favorite color.

GRACE: So when your dad had to go for whatever proceeding, probably signing warrants or hearing cops sworn in to sign a warrant, he would take it even in the middle of the night?

BARNES: When I was a kid.

GRACE: When you were a kid, yes.

BARNES: And then, eventually, when I got old enough, probably about eight or nine, he would, instead of going through the hassle, which I know it was, because he did it about three or four times a week, he would -- we had a little signal. If the hall light was on, and I woke up, and he wasn`t there, that he would be back soon, because he went to Hayesville to sign a warrant. And that`s a good memory.

GRACE: You know, I don`t think people understand that judges are on call day and night. They really are. But I bet he never complained, did he?

BARNES: Not once.

GRACE: Not once. Do you remember the day he made Superior Court judge?

BARNES: Absolutely.

GRACE: I remember it, too. Tell me what you remember.

BARNES: Well, the day he made it or the day he was sworn in, which?

GRACE: Well, tell me both.

BARNES: Well, I was life-guarding there at College Park. And he called me after he got out of the interview. And he told me...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: Oh, yes. And he had tried so -- Nancy, you know.

GRACE: Oh, yes, he tried for a while.

BARNES: He had tried so long. And it was Miller`s last term in office and...

GRACE: Zell Miller.

BARNES: And we were afraid that, you know...

GRACE: He wouldn`t make it.

BARNES: ... he wouldn`t make it if he didn`t get it this time. So he called me when I was life-guarding. And he was so happy. I was crying. He was crying.

GRACE: He made it.

BARNES: He made it. And that was his ultimate goal. And he worked so hard to get there. And I couldn`t have been prouder, ever, of my father. And the day that he was appointed was just -- you know, the judges that got appointed with him gave thank you speeches.

My dad spoke about the foundation of this country, spoke about what that meant to him and why his position and somebody in his position, in their position, why it was so important for them to do right by the name of justice. And there wasn`t a dry eye in the auditorium. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was like he was born to speak. And, you know, I was very proud of him that day.

GRACE: I remember the day it was announced that he had been named judge. And prosecutors and defense attorneys alike, everybody said, "Thank God somebody like Barnes has been named to the bench," on all sides of the courtroom.

BARNES: Yes.

GRACE: How are your days now?

BARNES: Well, you know, I still refer to him in present tense.

GRACE: I know.

BARNES: And I don`t mean to, but, you know, I had a good friend tell me last week that that means I haven`t accepted that he`s gone yet. But I`m just not used to it. You know, my dad was my best friend, and sometimes my worst enemy, but he was my rock in life. He pushed me to persevere my dream, my dream. He might have wanted it for me, but this has always been my dream and it`s my destiny to be a lawyer.

GRACE: I think you are right. I think it is your destiny. I certainly know it`s in your blood.

Everybody, we are going to break. Kiley`s staying with us.

Quickly to "Trial Tracking": Today, Terri Schiavo`s parents make an appeal after a federal judge refused an emergency request to restore their daughter`s feeding. Even Congress and the president injected themselves. The feeding tube disconnected Friday by order of a Florida judge. Schiavo has severe brain damage. She will die within days if her nourishment does not resume.

Local news next for some of you, but Kiley and I will be right back. And remember, live coverage of the Jackson trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments." Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: If you are a crime victim with a story to tell, know of an injustice or a case that needs a spotlight, call 888-GRACE-01 or visit our Web site, CNN.com/NancyGrace.

Welcome back, everybody. With me here in the studio, a special guest, Kiley Barnes, Judge Barnes` daughter. You are all familiar with the Atlanta courthouse shooting by now.

Kiley, if you could say something to your dad right now, what would you tell him?

BARNES: I could say something to him right now?

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: He is missed more than what he probably ever would have imagined, not just me, but everybody. Everybody was my dad`s best friend. That`s the way he made them feel. And I want him to know that.

GRACE: For those people that never got to know the judge, just tell me about him a tiny bit. Remember what you told me about once you had a conversation with your dad, when you walked away, how you felt?

BARNES: Well, no. I said that anybody, if you ever had the privilege, and I`m going to call it a privilege and a honor of having a conversation with my father...

GRACE: Yes.

BARNES: ... you would walk away with a warm feeling on the inside. And talking to him would make you feel like you accomplished something in life.

GRACE: Well, you know something, Miss Kiley? It must run in his blood, because we feel that way after meeting with you, OK?

BARNES: Thank you very much.

GRACE: I want to thank all of my guests tonight. My special guest, Kiley Barnes. I want to thank Jim Moret, David Wohl, Robert Gottleib, Stacey Honowitz, Robi Ludwig, Beth Karas, Chris Pixley.

But our biggest thank you, as always, is to you for being with us and inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you here tomorrow night, I hope, 8 o`clock sharp. Until then, good night, friend.

END