Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Tens of Thousands of U.S. Forces in Iraq Could Begin Coming Home This Summer; Plea to Restore Terri Schiavo's Feeding Tube Before Two Courts
Aired March 24, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on a cold and kind of crummy day here in New York City.
Ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING, a Florida neurologist says he thinks Terri Schiavo's been misdiagnosed. Is that a real possibility? Ahead, we talk to Schiavo's former legal guardian.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also this story from the Pentagon. Very intriguing, too. Barbara Starr has new information about U.S. troops in Iraq, and what it might take to bring some Americans back home. We're talking about the possibility of the summer. We'll get to Barbara and try to fill in the spaces there.
O'BRIEN: Some good news for lots of families waiting to hear any news of when their might be coming home. That's great.
First, though, a check of the headlines. Carol Costello is here this morning. Hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.
Now in the news, new details about the demonstrations in the former Soviet Republic of Kyrgyzstan. In the last half hour, we showed you new pictures of thick smoke among the main government building. There's now word the smoke may be from two cars set on fire in that area. Protesters stormed the building earlier today, demanding the president resign. He has since fled the facility, and we are expecting to get a statement from the U.S. Embassy there very soon.
U.N. investigators expected to release an initial report today on last month's Beirut bombing. The attack killed former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, sparking a tug-of-war between Syrian and Lebanese supporters. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has already said a more comprehensive investigation may be needed to figure out who ordered that attack.
Health officials in Florida are looking into a possible link between petting zoos and a potentially life-threatening kidney infection among several children. Authorities say at least seven youngsters may have caught a complicated form of E. coli. The managers of one of the local fairs says it's unlikely, and says petting zoos are inspected by health officials and it couldn't have come from there, but there's an investigation going on this morning.
And a slushy commute in parts of the Northeast this morning. New Jersey getting as much as six inches of snow. States like Connecticut and Massachusetts also getting blindsided by a snowstorm. You heard it right, snowstorm. It's spring, for god sakes. I just couldn't believe it.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: CNN is learning that tens of thousands of U.S. forces in Iraq could begin returning home this summer.
Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon. Fill in the blanks for us here, Barbara.
What's happening?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Bill.
It is one of just several planning scenarios, but indeed, is the exit strategy from Iraq now being written?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: CNN has learned that General George Casey, head of U.S. forces in Iraq, could recommend within weeks that tens of thousands of troops return home beginning this summer. President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will make the final decision. It all depends on the level of violence and the capability of Iraqi security forces.
Senior U.S. military officials tell CNN if things continue to improve, this time next year, there could be just under 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, 50,000 fewer than were there for the January election; 10,000 to 20,000 U.S. troops could be at their home bases in the U.S., Europe, and the Pacific on a standby status, ready to go if needed.
Rumsfeld knows the 27 other countries with 25,000 troops in Iraq are under political pressure.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: Each country has its own circumstance. It has its own force capability, and force-sustainment capability, and it also has its own political circumstances.
STARR: The U.S. is pressing all the allies to stay. It will make it easier for the U.S. to bring troops home. CNN has learned talks are under way with Ukraine to keep their 1,600 troops in Iraq until the end of the year. The Netherlands began withdrawing its 1,400 troops this month. South Korea is scheduled to bring its 3,600 troops home by the end of the year. Poland plans to do the same with its 1,700 troops, as does Bulgaria with its 450 troops.
(END VIDEOTAPE) STARR: Under U.S. pressure, Italy may now keep its 3,000 troops on site after saying they would return home in September. And, Bill, U.S. military officials say, of course, it's vital to keep coalition forces in Iraq so the U.S. isn't the only country left.
HEMMER: We have noted slow and steady progress in Iraq. But in no way is that country back on its feet with a firm foundation. If things go the other way, toward the bad side of Iraq, what's the plan after that, plan B?
STARR: Well, as you say, plan B, if things do not continue to improve, the Pentagon is still ready to keep 140,000 troops in Iraq through the end of next year. That is no problem, they say. They have those troops earmarked and ready to go.
And one more thing, what top military officials say is they don't want anybody to misinterpret this signal, this exit strategy. It is not the case that U.S. troops would be leaving just to leave. They will only leave, they say, if things do get better in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: They're going to make a lot of families happy in this country if that's the case. Thank you, Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The plea to restore Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is before two courts this morning. A Supreme Court justice must examine the merits of her parents' case, and a Florida court must decide if custody should be transferred to the state.
Jay Wolfson is an attorney who acted for the Florida court in 2003 as Terri Schiavo's legal guardian. He's in Tampa, Florida this morning.
Nice to see you again. Thanks for coming back to talk to us.
JAY WOLFSON, ATTORNEY: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: You examined the medical records of Terri Schiavo. You also spent lots of time with the family and both sides in this family argument, I might add, and you also spent a lot of time with Terri Schiavo as well. Any possibility that in your mind that, in fact, there may be a misdiagnosis in this case.
WOLFSON: This is not the first time that physicians here in Florida or across the country have suggested that there might be a misdiagnosis. Many of those physicians have never seen Terri. The most recent one did, I understand, see her yesterday, but he did not conduct an examination, and he based his principal observations on the videotapes that many of us have seen.
I have to go back to what my job was, and that was to evaluate the competent medical and legal evidence that was presented in the case, based on Florida laws of civil procedure, Florida laws of evidence, and the guardianship law in Florida that was carefully crafted over more than 15 years of be, artisan religious and political arbitration. This was no arbitrary and capricious set of laws that were put together. And the courts determined that the medical evidence that was presented met the clear and convincing standard that established that she's in a persistent vegetative state. We may not agree with that. We may not like to hear that finding. And that's one of the reasons why have courts of law, to adjudicate disputes.
And when there is an adjudication, it's oftentimes the case that one party comes out in a position less favorable than they had anticipated.
O'BRIEN: What about allegations of abuse? As you well know in a development yesterday, Governor Bush was hoping the Department of Children and Families would intervene and essentially said that they had a duty to investigate allegations, maybe 30 allegations of abuse on the part of Michael Schiavo against his wife, Terri Schiavo. Did you see any abuse? Are these allegations founded, in your mind?
WOLFSON: I saw no evidence in the files that I reviewed, the more than 30,000 pages of legal notes, medical evidence that there was abuse. and I had some of the people who are suggesting that there was abuse share their data with me, much of which has been shared with you, and the press and the governor, and much of it is allegations unfortunately.
And again, we've got to go back to the Schindlers. These are warm, loving, caring people. And we can all imagine the worst-case scenario of finding ourselves with our own children in this circumstance, and there's nothing more horrific than imagining this. But we also have to get back to the other bottom line in this, and that is as conscientious and as concerned as the governor is, and I have tremendous respect for the governor. He's a great leader. His heart is really in this entirely. But it's not about Governor Bush. It's not about the Schindlers, who are wonderful people. It's not about the caring people who are outside of the hospice. It's not about Congress. It's not about our state legislature, and it's not even about our federal court system, though that's there to help adjudicate the disputes; it's about Terri and what her intentions were determined to be in a civil procedure that used Florida law and some fairly carefully crafted guidelines.
We may not agree with that, and we don't want Terri to die, but here we are.
O'BRIEN: Is it true that the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo used to be very close.
WOLFSON: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: That, in fact, they used to live together, they shared a home when they were newlywed and they very, very close.
WOLFSON: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: At what point did it all fall apart?
WOLFSON: It seems to have fallen apart after the settlement on the malpractice case, almost four years after her accident. And it's at that point that Michael came to a conclusion from the record, from my interviews with him, from my interviews with the parents, that the information they had gotten for all those years, from almost two month after her accident when she emerged from a coma, she had been trached, she had been placed on a respirator, and when she emerged from a coma two months later and was diagnosed by many physicians as being in a persistent vegetative state, Michael refused to accept that. Michael refused to accept her condition when she had the accident. She was 11 minutes in anoxia (ph) after her accident. She was brought to the hospital emergency room. In some instances, she might have been allowed to die as a DOA. Michael insisted that she be trached, that she be respirated, that she be kept alive. He and her parents worked diligently, side by side. He and Mary lived together, basically, next to Terri's bed.
He took her out to California, had electrodes implanted in her brain to try to stimulate some brain activity, but the cerebral cortex is basically melted away. It's turned into liquid. and you know, maybe after the four years, after the judgment occurred on the malpractice case, maybe at that point, Michael was able to say, it's a point in time where he was able to stand back and say, maybe I have to let go, and maybe I have to stand in her shoes as her husband, the man who was most intimate of her of anyone in the world.
O'BRIEN: Jay Wolfson was a guardian of Terri Schiavo, appointed guardian of Terri Schiavo legally speaking. Thanks for your insight again, Mr. Wolfson. As always, we appreciate it.
WOLFSON: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: More on the medical front now. We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" this morning about Terri's condition.
Sanjay, good morning to you down at the CNN Center.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
HEMMER: Give us a definition. What is the difference between a state of minimal consciousness as the governor referred to it yesterday, and this persistent vegetative state.
GUPTA: Very distinct differences actually between the two, Bill.
First of all, let me just go through again what a persistent vegetative state is. People have seen this now for some time, trying to understand the terms. People are alarmed sometimes when they hear that it's a state of wakeful unawareness, meaning people can open their eyes spontaneously, they can close their eyes at night, have sleep wake cycles. They don't consciously process pain.
There's also no evidence of any of the following things: They have no perception of their surroundings, no ability to communicate and not intended movements. Now contrast that with minimally conscious state. A lot of people focusing on that. That's going to be a little bit better prognosis than persistent vegetative state. Again, the eyes open spontaneously. There are sleep wake cycles. But you can feel pain. There is some demonstrated awareness of self, or environment.
Also, you must be able to do one of the following things to be able to qualify as someone who's in a minimally conscious state, follow simple commands, a really important thing. If you tell someone to hold up two fingers, wiggle their thumb, something like that, they do it. Give a yes or no response, verbalize and be able to respond to environmental stimuli. This is what the distinctions are here. And some people say she falls into one category, others are saying another.
HEMMER: Why is it that way? It seems like a very broad question, but when doctors go and examine her, they come up with very different opposed views about what they consider her current condition to be.
GUPTA: Yes, you know, it is very striking. For me as a neurosurgeon, I've been very struck by this particular case. First of all, a lot of people are making comments, assumptions and even prognosis based on looking at videotapes, and not even seeing videotapes or Terri at all, which I find concerning, probably even irresponsible.
For some of the doctors who are seeing her, some of this is going to be subjective, Bill. There is no blood test specifically. There's no brain scan that's going to tell you definitively whether or not she's in either a persistent vegetative state or a state of minimal consciousness.
Let me point out something, you know, a lot of people have been focusing on the seven-page affidavit, Dr. Cheshire. I read the whole thing, and a couple things, when it comes to distinguishing between the two, being able to follow commands is a big distinguishing factor.
With regards to that, Dr. Cheshire writes Terri does not consistently follow commands, but in 2002, when a Dr. Hemspar (ph) examined her, when he asked her to close her eyes, she began to blink repeatedly.
Now some people say, well, there was something there -- she started to blink repeatedly, maybe she was trying to follow a command. Others people say, listen, this is not consistent. She's not able to follow a command. It's not there. That's just giving you a little bit behind the scenes of how gray this area can be -- Bill.
HEMMER: Gray because we've not seen it like this before. As you pointed out, no one has come back from a vegetative state, if indeed that is the condition.
Sanjay, thanks. We may get more legal rulings later today, and we'll bring you back then -- Soledad.
GUPTA: All right, thank you.
O'BRIEN: Well, some jittery investors dumped their Starbucks stock. Gerri Willis is going to tells us why, up next. HEMMER: Also testimony resumes in Michael Jackson's trial. Why did the judge throw out some of the evidence yesterday, and what was that evidence? The latest in Santa Maria, when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Now to California. Testimony resumes this morning in Michael Jackson's child-molestation trial. The defense was bolstered on Wednesday by a ruling from the judge and questions about one of the state's witnesses.
Here's Ted Rowlands now in Santa Maria.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A potential key witness for the prosecution in the Michael Jackson case is in jail. According to an indictment filed yesterday in Las Vegas, 25-year-old Chris Carter is facing three charges of robbery with a deadly weapon and a kidnapping charge. Carter is a former Jackson bodyguard who worked at Neverland Ranch at the time of the alleged molestation. Carter is the only person outside the accuser's family that testified in front of a grand jury that Jackson drank alcohol with the alleged victim.
Although legal experts say Carter's current troubles could hurt his credibility, he is expected to take the stand against Jackson. In court yesterday, Judge Rodney Melville ruled that Internet porn evidence cannot be used against Michael Jackson. Prosecutors wanted to show jurors that computers from Jackson's home had been used to surf porn sites. The judge said no, saying there was no way of knowing who was actually using those computers.
Meanwhile, there are more health problems in the Jackson camp. Yesterday, one of Jackson's lawyers, Brian Oxman, left court on a stretcher. According to a source, Oxman has pneumonia in one of his lungs and remains hospitalized. Michael Jackson is still nursing a bad back, but he was on time, walking slowly in and out of court.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: And when court resumes today, we're told today's testimony centers on methods used to fingerprint some pornographic magazines found inside of Jackson's home. Get a break here. Ten minutes now before the hour. Need a wedding gift? The hot new store to register for a wedding, in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Couples to wed are on Target when it comes to registries, and an investor's bucking Starbucks newest beverage. That, plus a look at the markets. Gerri Willis in for Andy Serwer. She's "Minding Your Business."
Good morning.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jack. Good to see you. Target -- Target is the number one choice for people who are filing for wedding gifts for their registry. You thought it was the old-fashioned department store, forget about it. It's Target. They are the top winners in this category. People typically fill out their wedding registry at specialty stores, a third of them, a third at discounters and a third at department stores. We hear some real big news here that I thought was really interesting. What do people spend on shower gifts on average? Fifty-nine bucks. If you're wondering what they spend on wedding gifts, because you've got to buy some yourself this season, $126.
CAFFERTY: That's average.
WILLIS: So you know sort of where you fit in.
CAFFERTY: You can buy an entire aisle in Target for $159.
WILLIS: I don't know, have you been there lately? Some of the stuff is expensive.
CAFFERTY: Starbucks selling booze?
WILLIS: You betcha. And guess what, a socially conscious mutual fund called Pax World Funds is saying, you know, they assess stock. We're selling them, they've sold $23 million worth of Starbucks stock. Zero tolerance for the coffee-store operator because they've developed something called Starbucks coffee liquor. They're not selling it in their stores, Jack. They're selling it in restaurants. You see a picture of it here. Pax World Funds shuns some stocks generally, defense stocks, you name it, people selling booze, whatever, they don't like that. They did it reluctantly, because as you know, Starbucks is well-known as a very generous employer. They even give benefits to part-time workers, which a lot of people don't do.
CAFFERTY: They can afford to. They charge $9 for a cup of coffee.
Anybody going to buy stocks today?
WILLIS: Well, that's a great question.
What's going on in the markets right now, GE raised its earnings estimates. Bodes well for the stock market. Generally we closed mixed yesterday. Not too exciting. It's a holiday week.
CAFFERTY: OK, thanks, Gerri.
Time for "The Cafferty File." We -- our investigative unit has worked on this for some time, and have found where it is that the thrill of victory meets the agony of defeat.
It is at the Annual Odor-Eaters Rotten Sneaker Contest in Vermont. Ten-year-old Noah Nielsen of Montpelier won this year's stinkfest. Check those out. Noah's technique, no socks ever. His parents said, leading up to the contest, he refused to take a bath. And when his parents insisted, he kept his feet hanging out of the tub, so he could preserve the odor. Noah's prizes, a $500 savings bond, a $100 check for new sneakers bunch of free odor eaters.
HEMMER: Well done, Noah. Congratulations.
CAFFERTY: Here's something a lot of us on this early shift here on AMERICAN MORNING could use. It's called Clocky. Clocky is an alarm clock. This is a picture. When it goes off in the mornings and you hit the snooze button to catch a few more winks, the whole clock then wheels itself off your night table and hides itself somewhere in the room. When the alarm goes off again, you've got to get out of bed, and go find it in order to shut it off. It goes to a different spot each morning. So you really have to be awake and alert to find it.
Clocky's inventor is a 25-year-old kid at MIT, Gari Nanda (ph). She says she's going to patent this thing, and it ought to be in stores next year for about 38 bucks. What a great idea.
Finally this item from the "Cafferty File" was inspired by an editorial in today's "New York Daily News." On Tuesday, Barry Bonds said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY BONDS, MLB PLAYER: My family's tired, just tired. I'm tired. You guys wanted to hurt me bad enough, you finally got there.
QUESTION: When you say you guys, who do you mean?
BONDS: You, you, you, you -- the media, everybody. Finally got there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: In 1939, after being diagnosed with what was to become known as Lou Gehrig's Disease, a fatal illness, the Yankee legend said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU GEHRIG, NEW YORK YANKEES: For the past two weeks, you've been reading about a bad break. Today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: In their editorial, "The Daily News" concluded they don't make superstars like they used to. I couldn't agree more.
O'BRIEN: So true. A great old tape to see. So true.
HEMMER: Thank you, jack. Get a break. Here, in a moment, top stories here on AMERICAN MORNING. At long last, Sony's Playstation is out. Does it live up to the hype? Gerri Willis has been checking this out already today.
Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 24, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on a cold and kind of crummy day here in New York City.
Ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING, a Florida neurologist says he thinks Terri Schiavo's been misdiagnosed. Is that a real possibility? Ahead, we talk to Schiavo's former legal guardian.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also this story from the Pentagon. Very intriguing, too. Barbara Starr has new information about U.S. troops in Iraq, and what it might take to bring some Americans back home. We're talking about the possibility of the summer. We'll get to Barbara and try to fill in the spaces there.
O'BRIEN: Some good news for lots of families waiting to hear any news of when their might be coming home. That's great.
First, though, a check of the headlines. Carol Costello is here this morning. Hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.
Now in the news, new details about the demonstrations in the former Soviet Republic of Kyrgyzstan. In the last half hour, we showed you new pictures of thick smoke among the main government building. There's now word the smoke may be from two cars set on fire in that area. Protesters stormed the building earlier today, demanding the president resign. He has since fled the facility, and we are expecting to get a statement from the U.S. Embassy there very soon.
U.N. investigators expected to release an initial report today on last month's Beirut bombing. The attack killed former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, sparking a tug-of-war between Syrian and Lebanese supporters. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has already said a more comprehensive investigation may be needed to figure out who ordered that attack.
Health officials in Florida are looking into a possible link between petting zoos and a potentially life-threatening kidney infection among several children. Authorities say at least seven youngsters may have caught a complicated form of E. coli. The managers of one of the local fairs says it's unlikely, and says petting zoos are inspected by health officials and it couldn't have come from there, but there's an investigation going on this morning.
And a slushy commute in parts of the Northeast this morning. New Jersey getting as much as six inches of snow. States like Connecticut and Massachusetts also getting blindsided by a snowstorm. You heard it right, snowstorm. It's spring, for god sakes. I just couldn't believe it.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: CNN is learning that tens of thousands of U.S. forces in Iraq could begin returning home this summer.
Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon. Fill in the blanks for us here, Barbara.
What's happening?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Bill.
It is one of just several planning scenarios, but indeed, is the exit strategy from Iraq now being written?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: CNN has learned that General George Casey, head of U.S. forces in Iraq, could recommend within weeks that tens of thousands of troops return home beginning this summer. President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will make the final decision. It all depends on the level of violence and the capability of Iraqi security forces.
Senior U.S. military officials tell CNN if things continue to improve, this time next year, there could be just under 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, 50,000 fewer than were there for the January election; 10,000 to 20,000 U.S. troops could be at their home bases in the U.S., Europe, and the Pacific on a standby status, ready to go if needed.
Rumsfeld knows the 27 other countries with 25,000 troops in Iraq are under political pressure.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: Each country has its own circumstance. It has its own force capability, and force-sustainment capability, and it also has its own political circumstances.
STARR: The U.S. is pressing all the allies to stay. It will make it easier for the U.S. to bring troops home. CNN has learned talks are under way with Ukraine to keep their 1,600 troops in Iraq until the end of the year. The Netherlands began withdrawing its 1,400 troops this month. South Korea is scheduled to bring its 3,600 troops home by the end of the year. Poland plans to do the same with its 1,700 troops, as does Bulgaria with its 450 troops.
(END VIDEOTAPE) STARR: Under U.S. pressure, Italy may now keep its 3,000 troops on site after saying they would return home in September. And, Bill, U.S. military officials say, of course, it's vital to keep coalition forces in Iraq so the U.S. isn't the only country left.
HEMMER: We have noted slow and steady progress in Iraq. But in no way is that country back on its feet with a firm foundation. If things go the other way, toward the bad side of Iraq, what's the plan after that, plan B?
STARR: Well, as you say, plan B, if things do not continue to improve, the Pentagon is still ready to keep 140,000 troops in Iraq through the end of next year. That is no problem, they say. They have those troops earmarked and ready to go.
And one more thing, what top military officials say is they don't want anybody to misinterpret this signal, this exit strategy. It is not the case that U.S. troops would be leaving just to leave. They will only leave, they say, if things do get better in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: They're going to make a lot of families happy in this country if that's the case. Thank you, Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The plea to restore Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is before two courts this morning. A Supreme Court justice must examine the merits of her parents' case, and a Florida court must decide if custody should be transferred to the state.
Jay Wolfson is an attorney who acted for the Florida court in 2003 as Terri Schiavo's legal guardian. He's in Tampa, Florida this morning.
Nice to see you again. Thanks for coming back to talk to us.
JAY WOLFSON, ATTORNEY: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: You examined the medical records of Terri Schiavo. You also spent lots of time with the family and both sides in this family argument, I might add, and you also spent a lot of time with Terri Schiavo as well. Any possibility that in your mind that, in fact, there may be a misdiagnosis in this case.
WOLFSON: This is not the first time that physicians here in Florida or across the country have suggested that there might be a misdiagnosis. Many of those physicians have never seen Terri. The most recent one did, I understand, see her yesterday, but he did not conduct an examination, and he based his principal observations on the videotapes that many of us have seen.
I have to go back to what my job was, and that was to evaluate the competent medical and legal evidence that was presented in the case, based on Florida laws of civil procedure, Florida laws of evidence, and the guardianship law in Florida that was carefully crafted over more than 15 years of be, artisan religious and political arbitration. This was no arbitrary and capricious set of laws that were put together. And the courts determined that the medical evidence that was presented met the clear and convincing standard that established that she's in a persistent vegetative state. We may not agree with that. We may not like to hear that finding. And that's one of the reasons why have courts of law, to adjudicate disputes.
And when there is an adjudication, it's oftentimes the case that one party comes out in a position less favorable than they had anticipated.
O'BRIEN: What about allegations of abuse? As you well know in a development yesterday, Governor Bush was hoping the Department of Children and Families would intervene and essentially said that they had a duty to investigate allegations, maybe 30 allegations of abuse on the part of Michael Schiavo against his wife, Terri Schiavo. Did you see any abuse? Are these allegations founded, in your mind?
WOLFSON: I saw no evidence in the files that I reviewed, the more than 30,000 pages of legal notes, medical evidence that there was abuse. and I had some of the people who are suggesting that there was abuse share their data with me, much of which has been shared with you, and the press and the governor, and much of it is allegations unfortunately.
And again, we've got to go back to the Schindlers. These are warm, loving, caring people. And we can all imagine the worst-case scenario of finding ourselves with our own children in this circumstance, and there's nothing more horrific than imagining this. But we also have to get back to the other bottom line in this, and that is as conscientious and as concerned as the governor is, and I have tremendous respect for the governor. He's a great leader. His heart is really in this entirely. But it's not about Governor Bush. It's not about the Schindlers, who are wonderful people. It's not about the caring people who are outside of the hospice. It's not about Congress. It's not about our state legislature, and it's not even about our federal court system, though that's there to help adjudicate the disputes; it's about Terri and what her intentions were determined to be in a civil procedure that used Florida law and some fairly carefully crafted guidelines.
We may not agree with that, and we don't want Terri to die, but here we are.
O'BRIEN: Is it true that the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo used to be very close.
WOLFSON: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: That, in fact, they used to live together, they shared a home when they were newlywed and they very, very close.
WOLFSON: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: At what point did it all fall apart?
WOLFSON: It seems to have fallen apart after the settlement on the malpractice case, almost four years after her accident. And it's at that point that Michael came to a conclusion from the record, from my interviews with him, from my interviews with the parents, that the information they had gotten for all those years, from almost two month after her accident when she emerged from a coma, she had been trached, she had been placed on a respirator, and when she emerged from a coma two months later and was diagnosed by many physicians as being in a persistent vegetative state, Michael refused to accept that. Michael refused to accept her condition when she had the accident. She was 11 minutes in anoxia (ph) after her accident. She was brought to the hospital emergency room. In some instances, she might have been allowed to die as a DOA. Michael insisted that she be trached, that she be respirated, that she be kept alive. He and her parents worked diligently, side by side. He and Mary lived together, basically, next to Terri's bed.
He took her out to California, had electrodes implanted in her brain to try to stimulate some brain activity, but the cerebral cortex is basically melted away. It's turned into liquid. and you know, maybe after the four years, after the judgment occurred on the malpractice case, maybe at that point, Michael was able to say, it's a point in time where he was able to stand back and say, maybe I have to let go, and maybe I have to stand in her shoes as her husband, the man who was most intimate of her of anyone in the world.
O'BRIEN: Jay Wolfson was a guardian of Terri Schiavo, appointed guardian of Terri Schiavo legally speaking. Thanks for your insight again, Mr. Wolfson. As always, we appreciate it.
WOLFSON: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: More on the medical front now. We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" this morning about Terri's condition.
Sanjay, good morning to you down at the CNN Center.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
HEMMER: Give us a definition. What is the difference between a state of minimal consciousness as the governor referred to it yesterday, and this persistent vegetative state.
GUPTA: Very distinct differences actually between the two, Bill.
First of all, let me just go through again what a persistent vegetative state is. People have seen this now for some time, trying to understand the terms. People are alarmed sometimes when they hear that it's a state of wakeful unawareness, meaning people can open their eyes spontaneously, they can close their eyes at night, have sleep wake cycles. They don't consciously process pain.
There's also no evidence of any of the following things: They have no perception of their surroundings, no ability to communicate and not intended movements. Now contrast that with minimally conscious state. A lot of people focusing on that. That's going to be a little bit better prognosis than persistent vegetative state. Again, the eyes open spontaneously. There are sleep wake cycles. But you can feel pain. There is some demonstrated awareness of self, or environment.
Also, you must be able to do one of the following things to be able to qualify as someone who's in a minimally conscious state, follow simple commands, a really important thing. If you tell someone to hold up two fingers, wiggle their thumb, something like that, they do it. Give a yes or no response, verbalize and be able to respond to environmental stimuli. This is what the distinctions are here. And some people say she falls into one category, others are saying another.
HEMMER: Why is it that way? It seems like a very broad question, but when doctors go and examine her, they come up with very different opposed views about what they consider her current condition to be.
GUPTA: Yes, you know, it is very striking. For me as a neurosurgeon, I've been very struck by this particular case. First of all, a lot of people are making comments, assumptions and even prognosis based on looking at videotapes, and not even seeing videotapes or Terri at all, which I find concerning, probably even irresponsible.
For some of the doctors who are seeing her, some of this is going to be subjective, Bill. There is no blood test specifically. There's no brain scan that's going to tell you definitively whether or not she's in either a persistent vegetative state or a state of minimal consciousness.
Let me point out something, you know, a lot of people have been focusing on the seven-page affidavit, Dr. Cheshire. I read the whole thing, and a couple things, when it comes to distinguishing between the two, being able to follow commands is a big distinguishing factor.
With regards to that, Dr. Cheshire writes Terri does not consistently follow commands, but in 2002, when a Dr. Hemspar (ph) examined her, when he asked her to close her eyes, she began to blink repeatedly.
Now some people say, well, there was something there -- she started to blink repeatedly, maybe she was trying to follow a command. Others people say, listen, this is not consistent. She's not able to follow a command. It's not there. That's just giving you a little bit behind the scenes of how gray this area can be -- Bill.
HEMMER: Gray because we've not seen it like this before. As you pointed out, no one has come back from a vegetative state, if indeed that is the condition.
Sanjay, thanks. We may get more legal rulings later today, and we'll bring you back then -- Soledad.
GUPTA: All right, thank you.
O'BRIEN: Well, some jittery investors dumped their Starbucks stock. Gerri Willis is going to tells us why, up next. HEMMER: Also testimony resumes in Michael Jackson's trial. Why did the judge throw out some of the evidence yesterday, and what was that evidence? The latest in Santa Maria, when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Now to California. Testimony resumes this morning in Michael Jackson's child-molestation trial. The defense was bolstered on Wednesday by a ruling from the judge and questions about one of the state's witnesses.
Here's Ted Rowlands now in Santa Maria.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A potential key witness for the prosecution in the Michael Jackson case is in jail. According to an indictment filed yesterday in Las Vegas, 25-year-old Chris Carter is facing three charges of robbery with a deadly weapon and a kidnapping charge. Carter is a former Jackson bodyguard who worked at Neverland Ranch at the time of the alleged molestation. Carter is the only person outside the accuser's family that testified in front of a grand jury that Jackson drank alcohol with the alleged victim.
Although legal experts say Carter's current troubles could hurt his credibility, he is expected to take the stand against Jackson. In court yesterday, Judge Rodney Melville ruled that Internet porn evidence cannot be used against Michael Jackson. Prosecutors wanted to show jurors that computers from Jackson's home had been used to surf porn sites. The judge said no, saying there was no way of knowing who was actually using those computers.
Meanwhile, there are more health problems in the Jackson camp. Yesterday, one of Jackson's lawyers, Brian Oxman, left court on a stretcher. According to a source, Oxman has pneumonia in one of his lungs and remains hospitalized. Michael Jackson is still nursing a bad back, but he was on time, walking slowly in and out of court.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: And when court resumes today, we're told today's testimony centers on methods used to fingerprint some pornographic magazines found inside of Jackson's home. Get a break here. Ten minutes now before the hour. Need a wedding gift? The hot new store to register for a wedding, in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Couples to wed are on Target when it comes to registries, and an investor's bucking Starbucks newest beverage. That, plus a look at the markets. Gerri Willis in for Andy Serwer. She's "Minding Your Business."
Good morning.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jack. Good to see you. Target -- Target is the number one choice for people who are filing for wedding gifts for their registry. You thought it was the old-fashioned department store, forget about it. It's Target. They are the top winners in this category. People typically fill out their wedding registry at specialty stores, a third of them, a third at discounters and a third at department stores. We hear some real big news here that I thought was really interesting. What do people spend on shower gifts on average? Fifty-nine bucks. If you're wondering what they spend on wedding gifts, because you've got to buy some yourself this season, $126.
CAFFERTY: That's average.
WILLIS: So you know sort of where you fit in.
CAFFERTY: You can buy an entire aisle in Target for $159.
WILLIS: I don't know, have you been there lately? Some of the stuff is expensive.
CAFFERTY: Starbucks selling booze?
WILLIS: You betcha. And guess what, a socially conscious mutual fund called Pax World Funds is saying, you know, they assess stock. We're selling them, they've sold $23 million worth of Starbucks stock. Zero tolerance for the coffee-store operator because they've developed something called Starbucks coffee liquor. They're not selling it in their stores, Jack. They're selling it in restaurants. You see a picture of it here. Pax World Funds shuns some stocks generally, defense stocks, you name it, people selling booze, whatever, they don't like that. They did it reluctantly, because as you know, Starbucks is well-known as a very generous employer. They even give benefits to part-time workers, which a lot of people don't do.
CAFFERTY: They can afford to. They charge $9 for a cup of coffee.
Anybody going to buy stocks today?
WILLIS: Well, that's a great question.
What's going on in the markets right now, GE raised its earnings estimates. Bodes well for the stock market. Generally we closed mixed yesterday. Not too exciting. It's a holiday week.
CAFFERTY: OK, thanks, Gerri.
Time for "The Cafferty File." We -- our investigative unit has worked on this for some time, and have found where it is that the thrill of victory meets the agony of defeat.
It is at the Annual Odor-Eaters Rotten Sneaker Contest in Vermont. Ten-year-old Noah Nielsen of Montpelier won this year's stinkfest. Check those out. Noah's technique, no socks ever. His parents said, leading up to the contest, he refused to take a bath. And when his parents insisted, he kept his feet hanging out of the tub, so he could preserve the odor. Noah's prizes, a $500 savings bond, a $100 check for new sneakers bunch of free odor eaters.
HEMMER: Well done, Noah. Congratulations.
CAFFERTY: Here's something a lot of us on this early shift here on AMERICAN MORNING could use. It's called Clocky. Clocky is an alarm clock. This is a picture. When it goes off in the mornings and you hit the snooze button to catch a few more winks, the whole clock then wheels itself off your night table and hides itself somewhere in the room. When the alarm goes off again, you've got to get out of bed, and go find it in order to shut it off. It goes to a different spot each morning. So you really have to be awake and alert to find it.
Clocky's inventor is a 25-year-old kid at MIT, Gari Nanda (ph). She says she's going to patent this thing, and it ought to be in stores next year for about 38 bucks. What a great idea.
Finally this item from the "Cafferty File" was inspired by an editorial in today's "New York Daily News." On Tuesday, Barry Bonds said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY BONDS, MLB PLAYER: My family's tired, just tired. I'm tired. You guys wanted to hurt me bad enough, you finally got there.
QUESTION: When you say you guys, who do you mean?
BONDS: You, you, you, you -- the media, everybody. Finally got there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: In 1939, after being diagnosed with what was to become known as Lou Gehrig's Disease, a fatal illness, the Yankee legend said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU GEHRIG, NEW YORK YANKEES: For the past two weeks, you've been reading about a bad break. Today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: In their editorial, "The Daily News" concluded they don't make superstars like they used to. I couldn't agree more.
O'BRIEN: So true. A great old tape to see. So true.
HEMMER: Thank you, jack. Get a break. Here, in a moment, top stories here on AMERICAN MORNING. At long last, Sony's Playstation is out. Does it live up to the hype? Gerri Willis has been checking this out already today.
Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
