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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE
Current Events at the United Nations
Aired March 25, 2005 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY.-GEN.: I assure you, it wasn't a deliberate leak on our part, but I'm glad that the report has aroused so much interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Afternoon tea at Davos is easily done. There are a lot of bored important people milling around looking for someone to have a cup of tea with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People with disabilities have an awful lot to contribute. The focus should always be on ability, not disability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: The next Oil-for-Food investigation report is just days away on Kofi and Kojo Annan. The secretary-general tells the world there must be changes in the U.N. system. Reports fly on Lebanon and Congo, and finally a vote on Sudan; well, one region, at least.
Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth.
This week was so busy, I just can't do it alone. Joining me, a press gallery that includes Maggie Farley of the "Los Angeles Times," Ghida Fakhry of "Asharq Al-Awsat," Mark Turner of the "Financial Times," and Benny Avni of the "New York Sun" and Israeli radio.
It was a week that began with Kofi Annan's big show, how the United Nations should reform itself, and told the 191 nations of the General Assembly it is time to change your ways, get rid of the Human Rights Commission, make a decision already on how to expand the U.N. Security Council, and stop wasting time on the same old things.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNAN: Quite frankly, as it is now they spend lots of time discussing issues that are of interest only to those in the room. It has no impact on most of the people outside the General Assembly and this building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The Annan recommendations where expected. There was a high- level advisory panel that worked for a year-and-a-half to lay the groundwork. Annan also wants the Security Council to come up with a resolution on when to use force.
Some post-game comments on the Annan recommendations from the audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG GUANGYA, CHINESE AMB. TO U.N.: My feeling is that some of them will be adopted, but not all of them.
REPORTER: Can you say which?
GUANGYA: I don't know. For instance, I'm not sure if we can make enough progress on the expansion of the Security Council.
JEAN MARC DE LA SABLIERE, FRENCH AMB. TO U.N.: It is ambitious, but achievable.
ANNE PATTERSON, DEPUTY U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: There are parts of the report that are extremely positive. There are others that we may have some concerns about, but we're going to look at it carefully.
GUNTER PLEUGER, GERMAN AMB. TO U.N.: If these reforms are being implemented, as proposed by Kofi Annan, he will go into history as the secretary-general who has really reformed this organization and adapted it to the challenges and threats of the 21st century.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: But not so fast, German Ambassador Pleuger. This Tuesday the United Nations-approved outside investigation into the Oil-for-Food program corruption scandal gives its verdict on the secretary-general and son, Kojo, who worked for a Swiss-based company awarded a contract to check off on goods entering Iraq.
Annan and his aides appear confident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MALLOCH BROWN, U.N. CHIEF OF STAFF: We believe on Tuesday the secretary-general will be exonerated of any wrong-doing, but like you, we've got to wait for the report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The reform report landed Monday and it didn't take long for Oil-for-Food developments to pop, overwhelming the U.N. desire to keep the focus on improving the organization.
On Friday the "Wall Street Journal" reported that people who have seen the Oil-for-Food report by the Volcker panel say Annan will be cited for failing to take action to stop failures in the Oil-for-Food bureaucracy and also for failing to pay attention to conflict of interest involving his son and the Cotecna job, the Swiss-based company.
Panel, please, help us understand all of this.
Maggie Farley, what should our audience understand as Oil-for-Food looms, along with Kofi Annan trying to reform the place? Is it too late for them?
MAGGIE FARLEY, "LOS ANGLES TIMES": Everyone is saying wait for the Volcker report to see how damaging it is going to be for Kofi Annan and whether he is going to be able to keep his job, and this report sounds like it is going to be very damaging.
Even though it doesn't pinpoint him with any corruption or criminal involvement, it does put the responsibility clearly in his lap. So the irony is that he may not be able to oversee the reforms that he wants so badly to be his legacy.
ROTH: Benny.
BENNY AVNI, "NEW YORK SUN": What is with this reform business? Since I have covered the United Nations, there have been like five or six reform ideas that everybody read -- we speed read them, tried to find out what was going on. The same day the reform report came out, they still talked in Geneva in the Human Rights Commission, still Sudan was accusing Israel of gross lapses in human rights.
These reforms are just ideas. They are not really action. What is happening is in that report, is in the report that will come on Tuesday, and is in stories that came out this week, a day after the reform report came, which was, you know --
ROTH: The United Nations was paying for the legal fees, up until the first Volcker report of Benon Sevan, the man who is the chief culprit so far, accused of conflict of interest by Paul Volcker.
If you are still following us, Mark Turner, is the secretary-general politically wounded based upon this report and moving forward on reform?
MARK TURNER, "FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, he's certainly politically wounded. The amazing thing is, in a similar situation a few months ago you might have found all of us arguing against each other, but at the moment --
ROTH: On the issue of whether there was a problem for Kofi and --
TURNER: On the issue of whether -- exactly.
But at the moment, pretty well everybody appears to be united and at the least there are very serious questions that have got to be answered, and it is proving increasingly difficult to love the United Nations these days. Even some of the people who you might imagine to be Kofi's strongest supporters are now beginning to wonder almost, almost dare to suggest, is, actually this reform process best served by Kofi continuing in the job or not.
ROTH: Ghida, what do you think?
GHIDA FAKHRY, "ASHARQ AL-AWSAT": I think definitely the buzzword around the United Nations, the corridors of the United Nations, these days, Richard, is nothing to do with reform as much it is to do with the fate of the secretary-general. Will he resign or will he survive? This is what more and more diplomats are asking themselves these days.
I think it is a very weakened secretary-general who presented a very broad package of reform last Monday, despite all the spinning that the 38th floor of the United Nations secretariat building is trying to do on this. I think that the secretary-general has seen his authority greatly undermined by what is going on in the Oil-For-Food.
ROTH: And that floor is where the secretary-general lives. We shouldn't -- we don't want anyone to think there is a floor trying to take control over the rest of the building, but that's a whole other story. Go ahead.
FARLEY: But the best chance for U.N. reform is right now, and that's Kofi Annan's best chance for survival as well, to paint himself as the only one who can take the United Nations through these reforms and make it into a --
ROTH: But how many -- Benny, take it away. You've got so many scandals or the perception of scandals, action not taken on officials in high posts. Where does the buck stop -- Benny.
AVNI: Part of the problem is exactly in that sound bite you had before, from Mark Malloch Brown, of those people who are sitting around in Davos and sipping tea together.
I am not sure that every once in a while they don't place a few splashes of whiskey and instead of talking clearly just on the weather, maybe they're talking about some business going on.
And that's part of the problem. If you look at the report, you have, like, a bunch of people, rich, bored people, as Mark Malloch Brown called them, who are doing business with one another while the American taxpayers are paying the price.
FAKHRY: I think, Benny, for any of us who have traveled with the secretary-general, we see how tight his schedule usually is on these trips, so it is becoming more and more difficult for the secretary-general to justify how he has time to spend with people such as the Massey family. He had tea in Davos with his wife and with Massey himself, and it is becoming difficult for him to explain his link to the Cotecna chief.
TURNER: As in so many cases, though, I think this may well come down to what the Americans decide to do with Kofi.
On the one hand -- and they're sending some odd mixed messages at the moment, the administration. On the one hand, they've appointed or nominated John Bolton, one of the most celebrated U.N. critics, as their ambassador to the United Nations, sending shivers of fear throughout the building.
On the other hand, there is, you know, Condoleezza Rice's, the secretary of state, more conciliatory, diplomatic approach. She has appointed an advisor on U.N. reform. We're hearing some noises from Washington that while Kofi's reform package contains some rather curious ideas on rules of the use of force, it has some good ideas about reforming the Human Rights Commission --
ROTH: At CNN we're hearing that this report is more on Kofi Annan than Kojo Annan -- Benny.
AVNI: Well, it seems that there was mismanagement, is what they accused of, not only mismanagement early on and lapses in judgment there, but mismanagement up to the very last days of Oil-For-Food in 2003.
And if -- and that sounds like the best they can say about it. If the best they can say is that he mismanages, then maybe he shouldn't manage.
ROTH: And the Iraqis are upset that their money is being used to pay the legal fees of the man who is accused of improprieties in the Oil-For- Food program.
AVNI: Wouldn't you? They stole their money and now -- the man stole their money and now they're paying for his defense --
(CROSSTALK)
FAKHRY: This is the United Nations making one more mistake. I mean, it's one mistake after the other with Oil-For-Food. The Iraqis have called this scandalous, and I think rightly so.
And now it begs the question, what else has the Iraqi money left over from Oil-For-Food, the so-called 2.2 account, what is it being used to cover as it is also covering the legal fees of the person at the center of this investigation.
FARLEY: And now the United States has cutoff Benon Sevan, rather unceremoniously, after the last Volcker report. Wash their hands of him.
So I wouldn't be surprised if Benon Sevan goes to Cyprus, just runs away, like he threatened to do.
TURNER: We've got to wonder whether Mark Malloch Brown, the man brought in to save the organization, the head of UNDP, brought across the street, is the man to hold the United Nations together at this stage.
He was going to bring in these reforms, recreate a sense of purpose and honesty, but he's also creating a lot of upset amongst officials who feel he is going too far.
FARLEY: But if their only solution is one person to hold the entire place together, it's the wrong solution.
ROTH: He was supposed to have all of the better sense of when the media should get stories and all of that, yet you had leaks of the reform report. He was quoted more than the secretary-general when he actually gave the speech on Monday. The "New York Times" had a small box on page whatever, X52, with opposition to the report.
Anyway, the guests are going to be back to help me out here no matter what Paul Volcker says. Is the damage done on the reputation of Kofi Annan? And the ability to move forward?
Here is his chief of staff, Mark Malloch Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: When I thought we maybe would be allowed a little bit of a honeymoon on this, to be back in the midst of this story causes me, as you can imagine, absolutely no pleasure. It does make me realize that, you know, that this story is firmly manacled to our ankles and it's hard to escape from and that there are many who will continue to make sure we don't escape from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: First, I don't do TV logistics. I'm not your booking agent yet, Richard. I probably will be by the end of this, and pleased for even that source of employment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: We needed a booking agent to get all of our guests here on DIPLOMATIC LICENSE.
Four U.N.-based correspondents, count them. Well, maybe Mr. Mark Malloch Brown will need a booking agent if the remaining days of the Annan term are filled with all kinds of problems.
But the secretary-general and the United Nations have other things to do besides worry. Take Lebanon. The Security Council dispatched Irish deputy police commissioner and other experts to Beirut to comb over the bomb damage of the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
Peter Fitzgerald's report targets Syria and Lebanese security for creating an atmosphere for the killing through negligence and protection lapses and other factors. Syria said it didn't kill Hariri.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAYSSAL MEKDAD, SYRIAN AMB. TO U.N.: In the beginning of Mr. Fitzgerald's report there is too much rhetoric. In fact, he has taken one side against the other. He has -- it seems to me he met only with the opposition and those who wanted to accuse Syria of something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Let's first go to Ghida Fakhry, well-based in Lebanon. What do you think about this report? Is there going to be an outside investigation?
FAKHRY: I think there will definitely be an outside investigation. It seems that Kofi Annan, even before getting the report formally or handing it over to the Security Council, was hinting that there would be such a report -- such an international investigation.
This report is obviously inconclusive. I think we all expected that. It will embolden the Lebanese opposition and the opponents of Syria, but I do think that it also gives somewhat of a respite to the Lebanese authorities in as much as Fitzgerald does not support the theory put forward by Lebanon's opponents, that there was some sort of conspiracy between Syria and Lebanon with regard to the explosives being buried underground.
But nonetheless, very scathing remarks directed at Syria and Lebanon. A bit too political for my liking in the sense that I wouldn't expected so much politics from a chief commissioner.
ROTH: Benny?
AVNI: There is not even a way to make any further investigation into this according to the Fitzgerald report, because the Lebanese got rid of all the evidence, and basically he is saying as long as they are there, those Syrian authorized Lebanese forces, there is no way to make an honest --
ROTH: This is an interesting issue. I mean, I thought the report went much further than I expected. I didn't expect to see who killed Rafik Hariri, but it was, by U.N. report standards, people where named.
AVNI: Absolutely.
TURNER: Well to put in there the direct threat at President Bashir Al-Assad gave to Mr. Hariri, and also Walid Jumblatt, was pretty extraordinary. In fact, there had been --
ROTH: Meaning they said he threatened, "I'll break Lebanon over your head if you go against my word."
TURNER: Exactly. In fact, there had been a lot of talk about whether Terje Roed-Larsen had brought this up specifically in a meeting as well. Everyone went quiet on that, and then to see it actually confirmed inside a U.N. report was quite striking.
AVNI: It was reported in the American press, by the way, that whole meeting, but this is like the United Nations putting its stamp on it, which is extraordinary for the United Nations to do.
FAKHRY: What I think was missing also here, as suggested by the Syrian ambassador -- I don't want to quote him, but it does raise a question. I wonder who it is that Fitzgerald interviewed in preparing this report. He also says in his opening remarks that he will present a list of people he has interviewed, yet we don't see anything of the sort.
ROTH: They shouldn't prepare to start their car.
Now, moving on, that wasn't the only report eagerly awaited at the United Nations this week. The ambassador from Jordan, a former U.N. peacekeeper, wrote up recommendations on improving U.N. peacekeeping after sex scandals in Congo and who knows elsewhere.
The goal: get tougher. Peacekeepers who abuse young girls and others, well, you may just be tried in the far-flung land you abused while wearing your blue helmet authority.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN-MARIE GUEHENNO, U.N. PEACEKEEPING CHIEF: Having court marshals outside of the country complicates things in many ways. It complicates things because it means that the evidence is harder to produce in the court marshal and some witnesses are not there. It also is not good because the message to the mission is not the same, when it comes long after the fact and away from the country. A court marshal in the country will send the right message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Maggie Farley, this report -- I mean, I thought we knew a lot of this, but the sectary-general asked the prince, the ambassador, to come up with some proposals. Will they stick?
FARLEY: Well, this is the important thing. There are some quite important proposals because they give consequences to the actions of the peacekeepers abusing and exploiting girls in peacekeeping missions all around the world, not just in Congo. But for the first time they are asking them to take criminal and financial responsibility for their actions. That's a big change.
AVNI: Not only for the babies that might come out of that.
FARLEY: Including for the babies.
ROTH: Right. Explain that. I mean, these peacekeepers are cited for producing a lot of pregnancies in lands and then they leave and go home.
AVNI: If I have to explain what happens as a result of sex, sometimes there are babies.
FAKHRY: No, but I think it is about time that the United Nations actually took this a bit more seriously. I mean, it is eight years after Kofi Annan took office. He was head of the department of peacekeeping operations, so you would imagine that he has known for a long time the problems involved here. For too long the U.N. peacekeeping officers, be it on the military side or the civilian side, have been getting away with all of these sex crimes. So it is a good thing, I think, that they are putting together a fund to help the victims of these crimes and also establishing court marshals, even those these issues might take some while before being implemented.
ROTH: Final topic. After weeks of deadlock on the African nation of Sudan the Security Council did something. It approved sending nearly 11,000 peacekeepers to southern Sudan to monitor the peace deal there, but left up in the air the other part of Sudan where there has been big trouble, Darfur.
The French have a resolution coming up that calls for war crimes suspects there to be sent to the International Criminal Court, something the United States doesn't want since the Bush administration likes the court as much as it does filmmaker Michael Moore.
Mark, what's going to happen? The U.S. veto, abstention, when this resolution on suspects comes up?
TURNER: Well, on the criminal court, I think the United States has made it pretty clear, no way. And in fact, when you speak to official, they're saying, well, what do the European think? How many times do we have to say we cannot accept this International Criminal Court.
But I think what's really interesting about this whole Sudan issue is, in the same week that the secretary-general says we need to create rules which allow the world to intervene and save people in areas of human rights atrocities and catastrophes, within days we see the inability of the Security Council to actually do it. Sure, it is very helpful they give 10,000 troops to the south, but they still can't deal with the Darfur genocide or the moral equivalent of a genocide.
AVNI: This is like arguing about the shape of the Nuremberg trial while Auschwitz is still burning. So, I mean, it is -- the whole ICC issue is about the ICC. It is not about Sudan. There is a lot of killing going on in Sudan. There is a lot of -- there is genocide going on there --
ROTH: And they still haven't done it. It takes weeks, months, and there doesn't seem to be much outrage from the world.
We're going to have to stop there. I want to thank all of our guests. In the boxes, top left, Maggie Farley, the "Los Angeles Times." We're running short on time. Ghida Fakhry, television and newspaper reporter, now based at the United Nations, upper right. Lower left, Mark Turner, "Financial Times." Benny Avni, Israel radio and "New York Sun." And we'll talk about sex, Benny, later. Thank you all.
The United Nations is seeking to fill the post of a U.N. official ousted because of scandal. Ruud Lubbers was the U.N.'s High Commissioner For Refugees until he was fired for allegedly sexually harassing women. There seems to be a theme of problems at the United Nations on this show.
Now the United Nations, in a new spirit of transparency, is publicly naming candidates who are on the short list for positions, such as the refugee's chief post. They should really put these eight candidates, including Emma Benito (ph), Bernard Cushnair (ph), Garreth Evans (ph) on an island and call it Survivor U.N., and maybe throw in a few refugees, see who survives and gets the job.
Do you want it job? Spokesman Fred Eckhard says the criteria includes diplomatic fundraising skills, refugee and migration law and.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: A leader who will unflinchingly champion the cause of refugees, understand and respect basic refugee law and the rapidly evolving debates about voluntary and forced migration and internally persons, and possesses the communication and coalition building skills to create consensus and stimulate effective campaigns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA ROOSEVELT, GRANDDAUGHTER OF FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.: Perhaps because he had felt such frustration with his weakened body, our grandfather, determined to be able, differently able, but absolutely capable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The grandfather Anna Roosevelt is talking about is U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose legs were crippled by polio, yet he was able to lead the country out of depression and through World War II. It was FDR who laid the foundation of the United Nations.
The 60th anniversary of FDR's death is approaching. For the last eight years, the United Nations has hosted the FDR Disability Awards. The late Christopher Reeve presented the awards the last two years. I greeted one of this years honorees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(voice-over): Robert Hall is an actor, not nearly as famous as Christopher Reeve, who was a regular guest at U.N. disability events. But Hall has a story of his own.
ROBERT HALL, ACTOR: 27 years ago, I was run over by a drunk truck driver. I was burned severely, and I walk on two artificial legs, which don't get in the way of acting too much.
ROTH: In his latest role, Hall gets to determine what happened to someone else. On the CBS network program "CSI", seen in 107 countries, Hall plays medical examiner Dr. Albert Robbins.
HALL: My theory, surgery one they botched. Round two, they repaired her to death.
ROTH: Jordan is one country making strides. The kingdom was honored with this year's Franklin Delano Roosevelt International Disability Award.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friends, in 1931, FDR called support for the disabled a great cause, one of the greatest causes of humanity. Today it is our cause and Jordan is proud to be part of that effort and we invite all people to join us in working for the future of opportunity and hope. Thank you very much.
ROTH: Following a king at the podium was the last thought in Robert Hall's mind when he visited the United Nations as an elementary school student. Now he asks for help for the world's estimated 600 million people with disabilities.
HALL: This award, the Franklin Delano Roosevelt International Disability Award, gives hope to all of us. It sends a clear message that the rights of all people with disabilities are important. More than that, they're a sacred trust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The U.N. General Assembly is considering a legal binding international convention to promote and protect the rights of disabled people.
That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth, in New York. Thanks for watching.
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