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CNN Live Sunday

Press Conference with Randall Terry, Patrick Mahoney; Interview with Robert Kennedy; Global Warming Beginning To Affect Polar Bear Population

Aired March 27, 2005 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It is March 27: you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
From CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. To Florida in a moment, but, first, a look at what's happening right now in the news.

Israel is delaying the handover of a West Bank town saying the Palestinians have not met demands involving militants. The town's mayor accuses Israelis of stalling. Delays preceded handovers of two other West Bank towns in recent weeks.

Authorities in Iowa confirm that a body found in an abandoned mobile home is that of a 10-year-old girl missing since Thursday. Sheriff officials say Jetseta Gage died of suffocation. A registered sex offender accused of snatching Gage from her home is in jail on $1 million bond.

A dangerous storm system is sweeping through the Southeast. It threatens to bring tornadoes, hail and flooding, from Arkansas to the Carolinas. Parts of Alabama have seen minor street flooding. Forecasters believe the storm will later drench the Northeast.

And, tonight, we are hearing conflicting reports on the fate of Terri Schiavo. The contradictions are not only coming from Schiavo's husband and her wife's parents, but within the Schindler camp itself.

An attorney for Schiavo's parents says she is now past the point of no return, but a spokesman for the family says that is simply not the case. We have reporters covering the story in Tallahassee and Pinellas Park, Florida, where the hospice is.

So, let's begin with CNN's Bob Franken live outside the hospice.

Bob, the implication is either Terri Schiavo is on the brink of death or she is not. Do you know what her status is?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, some independent observers are saying that her condition doesn't seem to have changed that much, so that would seem to favor the family's version of this.

I should point out, Carol, that within the hour the family announced that she was allowed, Terri Schiavo was allowed to have holy communion, the Catholic right of holy communion. She had a drop of wine placed on her lips, no wafer was given. This unusual turn of events was done because permission was granted on this special occasion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Easter Sunday, a day of celebration for Christians, but for most here, a day of sadness and defiance.

CROWD: Let Terri live!

FRANKEN: The severely disabled protesters were helped out of their wheelchairs to lay down on the ground at one of the entrances to Terri Schiavo's hospice. Their act of civil disobedience.

All Terri needs is a wheelchair and a (INAUDIBLE). And she can live in the (INAUDIBLE) at home with her family like the rest of us.

FRANKEN: The protests intensified in spite of requests from Terri Schiavo's blood relatives for the demonstrators to stay away. Even a direct appeal by her brother was met with resistance.

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Our family is asking -- it's not going to help at all to do anything that is going to cause -- anything that will lead to arrests. We're just asking, the cops are here to do a job. I know you don't agree with it, but they're trying their best. And I'm just asking from the family, I don't care if you're here prayerful and peaceful, but if we can just keep it prayerful and peaceful.

FRANKEN: Another group went to the home of Michael Schiavo to protest his insistence that the time had come for his wife to die.

Back at the hospice protest leaders try to pressure Governor Jeb Bush.

GOV. JEB BUSH, (R) FLORIDA: I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution, or for that matter from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made.

LARRY KLAYMAN, FRM. CHAIRMAN, JUDICIAL WATCH: Now, the governor has said that he wants to err on the side of life. I hope he didn't decide to err on the side of the polls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: So, the volume is heating up here. But, inside in the peace of the hospice, Carol, Terri Schiavo is passing her days. And everybody agrees that she doesn't have many left -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks for the latest from there, Bob Franken.

You just heard a snippet from Governor Jeb Bush, because the pressure is on the governor right now.

Terri Schiavo's parents have repeatedly asked the Florida governor to save their daughter from starving to death. CNN's Ed Henry spoke exclusively to the governor today and has more of his interview on that.

Ed, the governor could not be more clear about what he is willing to do or not do.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Carol. As a Catholic, as you mentioned, Governor Bush has faced a lot of heat over Easter weekend, pressure from people saying he needs to step in here and try to save Terri Schiavo's life. The parents have issued desperate pleas that he take custody of Terri Schiavo and reinsert the feeding tube. And some protesters have been outside his mansion comparing him -- going so far as to compare him to Pontius Pilate.

So the governor was a bit weary looking and emotional when I caught up with him after Easter Sunday mass.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions if that's OK. On this Easter, what are your thoughts about Terri Schiavo?

J. BUSH: I'm sad that she's in the situation that she's in. I feel bad for her family. My heart goes out to the Schindlers, and for that matter, to Michael. This has not been an easy thing for any member of the family. But, most particularly, for Terri Schiavo. With out all of the -- I think there's enough uncertainty for people to have doubt. And I do.

HENRY: If she dies, are you at peace with the fact that you feel you've done all you can?

J. BUSH: Absolutely.

HENRY: But what do you say to the parents who say you can do more and should do more?

J. BUSH: I can't. I'd love to, but I can't.

HENRY: And why is that? Because you're interpretation of the state law is that you can not...

J. BUSH: No, it's not a question of interpretation. I mean, I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or, for that matter, from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: While there's divided legal opinion on whether or not the governor can intervene, all sides do agree that if he stepped in, that would create another nasty, legal showdown. And the governor was making it very clear there, he's not going down that road -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Ed.

A top lawmaker who championed political intervention in the Terri Schiavo case apparently once faced a similar life or death decision. According to the "Los Angeles Times" House Speaker Tom DeLay and his family chose not to keep his comatose father hooked up to machines after he was injured in a freak accident.

A spokesman for DeLay says the two cases are entirely different. DeLay's father was on a ventilator and other machines. The spokesman notes that Terri Schiavo was being kept alive by food and water, which everyone needs to survive. Of course, there are doctors who say that a feeding tube is, in fact, life support.

By the way, I want to note that we are expecting any moment now a news conference to take place on the Terri Schiavo case outside the hospice. We are going it be hearing from supporters from the parents side. Randall Terry, as well as their spiritual adviser Pat Mahoney likely to give an update on Terri Schiavo's conditions. So stay tuned. As soon as that happens, we're going to bring it to you live.

But Right now, we want to move overseas on this Easter Sunday to the Vatican, because for the first time since he became pope, John Paul II did not give the Easter blessing to the crowd at St. Peters Square today. And it was a frustrating moment for him, and an emotional one for the crowd.

We're going to get the latest now from our Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: Not even the morning rain could keep pilgrims away from St. Peters Square. The feeling of anticipation to see the pope at the window of his apostolic palace was palpable.

Elise is from Los Angeles, but studies in London.

ELISE VETZEL, PILGRIM: Oh, my gosh, that would be just glorious. I would love to see the pope. That would be amazing.

VINCI: Katie is an American student in Rome for a semester.

KATIE HAMMOND, PILGRIM: I would hope that we would see him, just because it would mean that he is well enough to come greet us.

VINCI: As expected, the pope didn't preside over the long Easter mass which he followed on television from his study. But at the end of it, as a top cardinal was preparing to read the pope's traditional Easter Sunday blessing, the frail figure of the 84-year-old pontiff emerged.

The crowd below broke into a long applause, some were overwhelmed. The pope sat for almost 15 minutes while the cardinal read his message calling for peace in Africa and the Middle East and for all those suffering from hunger and poverty.

At one point he tried to utter a few words, but simply couldn't. Unable to bless the crowd with words, he used his hand.

Pilgrims and tourists, including those who hours earlier had only hoped to see him felt rewarded.

VETZEL: I just felt completely unified with all the people there and all the people, you know, watching on television. So, it was a very glorious moment, I thought.

HAMMOND: The whole thing was beautiful. What I thought was best was just the crowd's reaction to him. You could tell that everyone was so pleased that he was well enough to come and greet everyone.

VINCI (on camera): Because the pope is first and foremost a priest, his inability to give mass on Easter Sunday must have been a terrible burden for him. At the same time, he can take comfort from the fact that he silenced message of suffering continues to have an impact on pilgrims here in Rome and around the world.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Easter celebrations were held around the world today. In Jerusalem, pilgrims gathered at holy sites for sunrise services marking the day with prayers and hymns. The various services underscore a big doctrinal difference for Christians. Roman Catholics believe Christ was buried at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, while many Protestants believe he was buried in the nearby garden tomb.

In Baghdad, Iraqi security forces were on heightened alert today as the Christian minority there celebrated Easter. Parishioners at the Virgin Mary Church sent out happy greetings to all Iraqis. Christians make up just 3 percent of Iraq's population.

In Lebanon, last night's bombing in a Christian Beirut suburb overshadowed Easter services there today. Deep political divisions since the assassination of a former prime minister are raising fears Lebanon could slide back into its violent past. Following mass, Lebanon's president called for Lebanese citizens to stay united despite the renewed tensions.

Well, they had packed a house -- packed house for Easter services right back here at home.

The U.S. military sponsored this sunrise service at the amphitheater at Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia today. That was the Air Force Band and Choir providing the music.

In the meantime, he calls himself a warrior, vowing to the fight the allegations against him. Straight ahead tonight, Michael Jackson speaks out for the first time since his trial. Hear what he has to say is keeping him strong.

Plus, the fight to save Philadelphia. A string of gun violence has the city on edge. CNN speaks with a mother who says her neighborhood is like the streets of Iraq.

And later, on this Easter, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Joins me to talk about his new children's book on Catholic faith. And among the most popular stories this hour on CNN.com, an ultramarathoner pushes limits of the human body, running 262 miles nonstop. Wow. Click on to CNN.com for more details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. We're going to take you straight out to Pinellas Park, outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo is. This is Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue talking about her condition.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

RANDALL TERRY, FOUNDER OF OPERATION RESCUE: Then we must continue to fight to save her life.

So, in that light, we are going to -- Reverend Mahoney is going to go to D.C. to continue to ratchet up the pleadings with the Congress, with the president with the DOJ, with anybody that has guts up there to intervene and to save her life.

The subpoenas were issued, as you know, and they, as of yet, have not been enforced. Pat, tell people what is going on and I'm going bring up one other thing and then we'll take questions.

REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, DIRECTOR CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: Hi. Reverend Patrick Mahoney, M-A-H-O-N-E-Y, director of the Christian Defense Coalition based in Washington D.C.

When this project began, our spiritual purpose was clear, to be a voice for Terri. We are Terri's voice.

Right now Terri is fighting for her life. For those supporting Michael Schiavo, it's clear that Terri's fight contradicts everything they say. If Terri wanted the feeding tube to be removed, she would have expired four, five, six days. Randall and I were involved in leading efforts with Nancy Cruzan. She expired after six days. But Terri is fighting. It is now day ten.

Two weeks ago Terri Schiavo -- this hospice received a subpoena for Terri Schiavo to appear in Washington, D.C., before the United States House of Representatives tomorrow, March 28. Terri has fought to be alive until tomorrow! We are going Washington, D.C. to say to Speaker Hastert, enforce the order.

To Speaker Hastert, Terri has stayed alive. You issued a subpoena. It was clearly told that medically she could fly to Washington, D.C., you issued a subpoena for Terri Schiavo to be in Washington, D.C., tomorrow and we're going on behalf of Terri and demanding that they enforce their subpoenas.

Speaker Hastert, were you playing politics? This isn't a joke. This is a woman's life. She's starving to death. Were you trying to score points? Were you trying to score points with the religious right or conservatives? Speaker Hastert enforced the order. Terri Schiavo is fighting so she can appear. Enforce this order. We are going up tomorrow. We are calling supporters. All of this has emerged over the last couple of hours. And we are saying, this is not an issue to play politics on. A woman is starving to death. A woman is being starved to death. She has already made it ten days. Tomorrow will be 11.

Enforce the subpoena. Bring Terri Schiavo to Washington, D.C., as you asked to do. Please, we beg you. And we are going to plead for Terri to be her voice in Washington, D.C., March 28. They asked Terri to be in Washington.

I just want to say, finally, I've been hearing all about if Governor Bush came in here, he would be violating Judge Greer's order and there would be a constitutional crisis and all of that. Judge Greer has violated the House subpoena. Judge Greer has not obeyed the subpoena.

And, so, we are saying, if the United States -- look, are you playing politics with Terri or do you really believe that there are constitutional violations and you want to bring her up? If you're playing politics, then you're going to do what you've done, not enforced the order. But if you are really sincere, if you really meant it, if you really believed in it, then let's bring Terri.

We're going -- she can't go tomorrow. We will be there. We will go to Speaker Hastert's office. We will go to the White House. We will go to congressional leaders. I leave at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow. We have a news conference 12:00 noon in front of the White House and then we're going right to the speaker's office. And we're going to ask. She's fighting, Speaker Hastert. Do you hear us? She's fighting for her life. Don't play politics with someone's life.

Thank you.

QUESTION: ...mentioned something about the subpoena...

LARRY KLAYMAN: Let me say that in one of my former lives I was a Justice Department lawyer, I was a trial lawyer. So, I know a little bit about these subpoenas. The fact that Terri has been subpoenaed and she's now being put to a death sentence. To kill a witness is obstruction of justice.

Congress has no choice but to enforce that subpoena and to hold Judge Greer in contempt of court. And the Department of Justice, the Bush administration can actually begin a proceeding to hold the judge in contempt, as well as prosecute him for obstruction of justice.

He stepped beyond his judicial mantle. He no longer has his immunity by virtue of the fact that he is now in contempt of a congressional subpoena, which could be enforced once Congress goes through the first steps through the Department of Justice.

So this is super important this trip to Washington. And this is not far fetched. This is actually the law. A judge is committing obstruction of justice here in Florida. TERRY: Every time we hear people say that their hands are tied, there is nothing they can do. I would encourage everybody, go online, crack open a book, read the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration of Independence is the organic beginning of this republic. And this republic was based upon an idea that laws come from our maker, rights come from our maker and when the political powers that be are destroying those rights and those laws -- the framers actually said, it's the duty to alter or abolish those forms of government. We were based on the idea that some things, some rights are higher than current parliamentary law or the laws or the decrees of a king or the laws or the decrees of a court.

If Governor Bush and if President Bush and if the United States House and Senate really believe that there is a crime being committed against this woman, they have a duty in the frame framework in the American ideal of justice. They have a duty to intervene on her behalf and to not do so is to betray the very premise of this country.

So, Reverend Mahoney is going as an ambassador for Terri. The others that are going to be there -- she was subpoenaed to be there tomorrow and she can't be there. But they have the authority in Washington to enforce that subpoena. So, we're saying, what in the name of God and all that is good is going on here that the entire U.S. government and the entire Florida government lay prostrate at the feet of a tin pot judge named Greer. A little dictator, a little petty dictator.

And if you think these are name calling, read what they said in the Declaration of Independence. Read the words that they used at the time of these debates that were going on. This is the stuff that freedom is made of on one hand and the stuff that tyranny is made of on the other. And as Edmund Burke said, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. We're tired of that happening. Pat is going up to beg. Are there any questions for any of the three of us?

QUESTION: Is there a point where physically she may be past?

TERRY: The question is, is there a point at which Terri will be physically not able to be brought back? I am not a physician, but there would be a point. Obviously, the most critical point is if she dies. But as of right now she is still conscious. She is still responding, she is still communicating and this girl is fighting for her life.

All of us who have lost family members know that when they're ready to go, they go. If Terri wanted to go, she'd be gone. She said, "I wah" -- try to say I want to live. And it's obvious from the fact that she is still alive she wants to live. So, for the love of God, Congress, president, governor, legislators here, DCF, get off of your hands and intervene and stop letting Judge Greer control the will of every branch of government.

LIN: All right, you've just been listening to Randall Terry, one of the representatives of Terri Schiavo's parents. Let's go to, actually, we have much more to cover on this. We're going to take a quick break, but then we're going to separate, frankly, fact from fiction of some of the things that are being said at the microphone in a very heated moment today. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. Welcome back to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. We were just hearing from Randall Terry and Reverend Pat Mahoney, founders of two Christian-based fundamentalist groups that are politically active in the Terri Schiavo case representing Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers.

Let's go to Bob Franken live outside the hospice there. Bob, let's quickly separate from some fact from fiction of some statements made at the microphone, which were pretty inflammatory.

Number one, they both say that Terri Schiavo is fighting for her life. More than two dozen court decisions have supported the notion that she's in a vegetative state. Fact from reality?

FRANKEN: Well, both of those statements are correct. What they're saying is that contrary to what the family's lawyer said on CBS today, that she is not past the point of return. The family was totally outraged when they heard of that, because they have been trying to make the point repeatedly that there is a little bit of time left because they don't want folks to give up. All those that they're asking to help them, including Pat Mahoney going to Washington tomorrow to try and muscle Congress into getting back into this.

LIN: And no real way to know. No scientific way to know at this point, according to the court decisions, to know whether she is, in fact, saying anything or fighting for her life.

But Congress, they're claiming, can enforce the subpoena. Last week when there was extraordinary congressional action, one congressional committee said, you know what we want to see Terri Schiavo for ourselves, because we're considering all kinds of legislation in this matter. So, let's bring her to Washington or maybe we can come down there.

The fact is, if Congress can enforce this the subpoena and nobody is -- I mean, they're claiming that they -- that Congress is essentially hanging Terri Schiavo out to dry. What's the reality check here?

FRANKEN: Well, number one, the hearing has been postponed. Number two, there's a tremendous constitutional question over which part has primacy here. The Tenth Amendment of the Constitution says all powers not listed in the previous amendments are vested in the states. And traditionally states have determined matters of probate. So, one argument could be that maybe Congress can assume some extraordinary power, on the other side of this is the contention that this is a state matter.

LIN: But you know Congress, Bob. If Congress wanted to enforce the subpoena, they would have an attorney active in this case. Does it seem to you that the consensus is on Capitol Hill that they are done with this matter? That the courts have ruled?

FRANKEN: Well, the consensus seems to be that. But beyond that we have to add the reality that the polls have shown that the involvement of Congress is not necessarily been a favorable -- gotten a favorable response.

LIN: Also, I can't remember if it was Randall Terry or Reverend Pat Mahoney making the claim that there were members of Congress declaring that a crime was being committed, that Terri Schiavo was being unfairly sentenced to death, when, in fact, the congressional action wasn't about a declaration of whether a crime was being committed. The congressional action was, hey, should the federal courts have jurisdiction in this matter? Congress said yes. And the family had their day in court. In fact, they had all week to have many days in court all the way to the Florida Supreme Court as well as the U.S. Supreme Court.

So, in terms of separating fact from, you know, fantasy from reality there, Bob, what is your perspective on that claim?

FRANKEN: Well, in all probability, there was some member of Congress who said words to that effect. There is all kind of rhetoric going on.

Now, what happened was last Sunday when we participated in a covering that extraordinary session, the original legislation that was drafted would tried to mandate the courts to come up with certain rulings, but there are severe constitutional questions there. So, there was a piece of legislation which said the courts should consider this.

Well, then that ran into the legal realities of the federal court procedures. And judge after judge, and then justice after justice at the highest levels of the court came up with the standard of an emergency order, a temporary restraining order that would require, before it could be passed, a substantial likelihood of success with the ultimate lawsuit.

Every single one of the Federal judges said, OK, we've considered it and that's our conclusion. There is not a substantial likelihood it will succeed, therefore, no emergency order.

LIN: All right. And the bottom line is, Bob, that these, you know, these supporters of the parents are saying that Congress and the politicians are playing politics with Terri Schiavo. They're saying one thing out of one side of their mouth about the culture of life and doing nothing right now. Here is what the bottom line is, according to Governor Jeb Bush in terms of what anyone can do legally. This is what he had to say exclusively to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. BUSH: It's not a question of interpretation. I mean, I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or, for that matter, from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: So, in effect, Bob, do you think that these spokespeople are asking the governor of Florida and the United States Congress to make an exception, break the law, do whatever it takes, violate the constitution if it means reinserting that feeding tube?

FRANKEN: Yes, as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, the same Rev. Patrick Mahoney in an interview a couple of days ago on CNN said if there is a constitutional crisis, referring to Governor Bush, if there is a constitutional crisis, so be it. In effect, they're saying there may be some of what they regard as niceties and other conclude as an important separation of powers, but that the issue here sort of trumps all of that.

LIN: All right. Bob Franken, thank you so much. It's good to tap into all of your experience on Capitol Hill on this story. Thank you.

In the meantime, another big story brewing right here in the southeastern part of the United States. Some nasty weather cropping up and it's pretty dangerous. We are going to check on where it is headed. Coming up.

Also, slipping into the sea. Up next, our Miles O'Brien gives us a preview of his global warming special, "Melting Point."

Plus, using the Terri Schiavo case as a teaching tool for others. One Catholic priest makes a plea to his parishioners.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: You won't want to miss this tonight. Only on CNN, "Melting Point." Miles O'Brien tracks the damage and the serious threats from global warming. That is at 8:00 Eastern, but right now, Miles is joining me with a special preview involving polar bears.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Carol. We spent a lot of time looking at the scientific facts about global warming. The fact is the planet is warming and the scientific consensus by most of the world's scientists is that humans are hastening that warming. Now a lot of people when they hear that say, so what? When you start looking at just who or what is affected by all of this, you realize that the problem is very real and it has an impact on things you might care about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): They call it the polar bear capital of the world. Churchill, Manitoba on the western banks of Hudson Bay is probably the best place in the world for humans to catch a glimpse of the magnificent mammals that rule the Arctic ice pack.

But the bears are in trouble, big trouble. For them, it's a matter of survival.

RICHARD ROPMANIUK, POLAR BEAR POLICEMAN: We've been chasing her since Wednesday -- about 10:00 we got the first call.

O'BRIEN: That's Richard Romaniuk, polar bear policeman. He's a very busy man these days.

ROMANIUK: Well, last night we had four calls, one at 5:00, one at about 1:00, one at about 3:00 and one at about 5:00. Hey, buddy, you here by yourself? The last three years, 2001, 2002, 2003 were the busiest years the program has ever had.

O'BRIEN: The bears are coming to town with alarming frequency, weak, famished and scavenging for food.

ROMANIUK: Last year of 176 bears that were captured, about 135 were captured in and around the dump.

O'BRIEN: Polar bears are nature's ultimate binge eaters. During the winter, once the Hudson Bay freezes over, they take to the ice with a voracious appetite for seal. They hunt and eat as much as they can get their paws on and then when the ice gets thin in the spring, they return to terra firma for a four-month fast.

NICK LUNN, SCIENTIST: The amount of time bears in western Hudson Bay can spend on the sea ice is critical for their survival.

O'BRIEN: Scientist Nick Lunn has logged two dozen years studying polar bears for the Canadian Wildlife Service.

LUNN: We have seen bears come in showing poorer and poorer condition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Now, when Nick Lunn talks about poorer and poorer conditions, adult males are 15 percent lighter than they were 20 years ago, adult females with cubs, 20 percent lighter. And the real reason here is that polar bear buffet, Carol, is opening later and closing sooner. The sea ice in Hudson Bay turns to its liquid state three weeks earlier than it did in 1970, so that brief time that they eat is being shrunk and the amount of time they have to use it to sustain that food on land increases. Eventually they're going to have to move out of there.

LIN: The title of your special, "Melting Point," I mean that's a frightening title. Are you talking about the end of the planet as we know it? Is it that serious a situation?

O'BRIEN: That would be probably a little more apocalyptic than what we're talking about, but we are talking about the possibility of sea level rising over the next coming decades by a foot and a half.

LIN: That is a lot.

O'BRIEN: That is a lot. A lot of people say, so what? That means 100 million people will have to move. As the tsunami, terrible as it was laid there, we love to be by the sea and the impact of those rising sea levels means a lot. And then of course for people who are dependent on ice, the Inuit in Alaska, the polar bears, of course, that need that ice to sustain their lifestyle, one way or another or live on, this is a big problem. So, the effects are out there. The science is real. We wanted to cut through the rhetoric because there's been a lot of junk science related to this, bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry that has obscured the issues.

LIN: All right. You took the cutest characters to tease your special so I appreciate that.

O'BRIEN: That's kind of what teasers are for. Use the cute characters.

LIN: The polar bears and much, much more on "Melting Point" tonight. Thank you so much. It's a one hour. Actually, it's one of four CNN special reports on critical issues facing our world in the next 25 years. Miles O'Brien tracks the global warming threat and you can see the entire program tonight at 8:00 Eastern only on CNN.

In the meantime, right here on CNN, you are going to see golf ball-sized hail, funnel clouds and flash flooding and they are creating major anxieties in parts of the South today. Alabama is just one of the states getting hammered by the thunderstorms. So, let's go to meteorologist Brad Huffines with the latest on this wicked weather, dangerous stuff that you worried about yesterday, Brad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LIN: Thanks, Brad.

In the meantime a nation divided, but his Catholic congregation is not. Straight ahead tonight, how a Washington priest is using the Terri Schiavo case as a teaching tool for others.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. I just want to give you the very latest on what is happening in the Terri Schiavo case. You've got people representing the parents right now who are actually in total disagreement as to Terri Schiavo's physical condition. You have the attorney David Gibbs representing the family who says that death appears imminent and that there is no turning back. She is at the point of no return even if there was legislative action, she would not survive it.

On the other hand, we just heard from another set of spokes people representing the religious right constituency that has been supporting the parents in this and what Randall Terry and Reverend Pat Mahoney are saying is that it is not too late and that they are going to Washington, D.C. They are demanding that Congress enforce a subpoena. A congressional committee had last week subpoenaed Terri Schiavo to appear before the committee so that they could then see her for themselves. They're demanding that Congress enforce that, get the lawyers together, get her feeding tube reinstated so that she can appear before Congress.

Jeb Bush, Governor Jeb Bush they are saying has the legal authority to take custody of Terri Schiavo. Jeb Bush, in an exclusive interview with CNN says, no, he does not. They are asking me to break the law. So, that is where the story stands at this very moment.

And a lot of people feel conflicted about this across the country. So, we sent CNN's JJ Ramberg to a congregation to see how they are dealing with this moral dilemma.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JJ RAMBURG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Parishioners gather at St. Thomas More Church to celebrate Easter and to learn lessons about more current issues of life and death.

REV. CHARLES POPE, ST. THOMAS MORE CHURCH: And I also want to try, if you permit me, to enter into a discussion with you a little bit about this case that we've read about and heard about in the news and that of Terri Schiavo.

RAMBURG: As the nation watched Terri Schiavo's family struggle over her fate, causing many to wonder what they would do in the same situation, Father Charles Pope hoped to guide his congregation on the church's teachings around a difficult issue.

POPE: When things come up in the news like they have, I think it's a teaching moment and it's a time for us to enter into a reflection with the people of God over what God might be asking us to think based on his words.

RAMBURG: The Catholic Church has been clear, calling it morally obligatory to provide food and water for most patients in vegetative states. But Father Pope has a personal experience that solidifies his faith. As a young seminarian, he spent a year working with mentally handicapped patients, many of whom were on feeding tubes.

POPE: We were taught to reverence their life and to hold their hand and to speak to them and we were taught that perhaps we don't know what they experience.

RAMBURG: Over the past week, the controversy surrounding Terri Schiavo has divided not only her family, but also the nation.

(on-camera): But here at St. Thomas More Church, the congregation is generally united. An overwhelming majority of them believe that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube should never have been removed.

MICHAEL E. RUSSELL, PARISHIONER: She may actually be inside of herself saying, I really really want to live, but we have no way of knowing that and yet we're going to take this woman's life from her just because that life has become inconvenient and inconvenient is no reason to take a life.

RAMBURG: Father Pope says this is just the jumping off point. He plans on having more discussions about life support, living wills and God's teachings. But in the meanwhile, he says, Terri Schiavo's family is in his prayers. JJ Ramberg, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And believe you me, with so much grim news on this Easter Sunday I'm so happy to share a light-hearted story but an interesting one. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to join me, there he is, to talk about his new children's book about St. Francis of Assisi. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: "A Life of Joy." That is the title of a new book for kids about the remarkable life of St. Francis of Assisi as a young man. It is written by a first-time author of a children's book, but he has a very familiar name. Joining me to talk about this is author Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Robert, it's good to have you and what a pleasure to look at this children's book. It is so beautifully illustrated. And I'm just wondering why you chose St. Francis of Assisi, the patron saint for animals and the environment.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., AUTHOR, "A LIFE OF JOY": Carol, I have six children. When I was growing up, we were read all kinds of books. St. Francis himself was the patron saint of my family. He was my father's namesake or my father was his namesake, Robert Francis Kennedy, as was I. We had shrines Franciscan iconography around our house and shrines to St. Francis. But I was looking for a good book on the saints to read to my children. I couldn't really find anything that would compete for their attention, these computer-aged kids. So I went about, tried to write one that would hold their attention and I think this one does it.

LIN: What age group do you think this is directed at because it has a pretty complicated storyline?

KENNEDY: It does, but I've read it. I started out. I tested this book by reading it to my three-year-old and it held his attention with the pictures. The pictures are so great. The paintings by Dennis Nolan are so wonderful that I think even somebody as young as three, it can hold their attention. My kids that I'm reading this to are from three to 12 years old and they all like the book.

LIN: Three is pretty remarkable, Robert. You must have a brilliant 3-year-old. There is a page here, on page 13, there's a story about St. Francis of Assisi's fear despite his great accomplishments as a knight, a very brave knight, that he has a terrible fear of lepers and he encounters one on the road and, initially runs and then reconsiders. You point out the moral dilemma of how a young man who struggles with his, with the definitions that society places on him and his own expectations, how he tries to confront his own fears. Do you think, how do you think this translates for kids today?

KENNEDY: Well, I think he had, St. Francis had a lot of important messages for us. He looked at, you know, he really almost, although he was very much a conformist in some ways, he really broke with the church and with the orthodoxy that was kind of the domineering theme of the church of that day and he said, you know, we shouldn't be looking at this kind of fundamentalist view of the bible. What we need to be looking at is the central ministries of Christ's life, the central messages of Christ's life which were tolerance and generosity and love and open-mindedness towards others. And he really, because of his -- he was so successful at persuading so many people that this was, the crux of a spiritual life, that he's credited with leading Europe out of the dark ages at the end of the 12th century.

LIN: Robert, I have to ask you, when I listen to you talk about your faith, though you didn't choose a political path, you come from a political family. When you take a look at the current events, how do you balance the notion of faith in public life? When you take a look at the debate that Congress has had and the courts have had in the Terri Schiavo case, do you see that faith has a role in public life and public policy?

KENNEDY: Well, I think faith definitely has a role in public life and I think all of us would be worse off. You know, I think religious belief, also, should be aired in the public square. I think we'd all be worse off if Dr. Martin Luther King would not had aired - had not taken a strong moral stance that was also a political stance. But I think that we also have to separate, you know, it's difficult walking with one foot in the spiritual world and another foot in the material world. But, it's something we all have to do.

On the Terri Schiavo case, you know, I think, I'm not an expert on this area, but it seems to me that the proper moral stance is to always err towards life, but that we should be consistent about that in all of our policies in addressing the death penalty, in addressing abortion, in addressing, even more importantly, our attitudes towards war and towards the hundreds of thousands of children who are dying every year around this country that we aren't paying attention to and that we should try to separate these issues from political issues and be consistent, be consistent, you know, stop trying to politicize them. Be consistent around the world in our application.

LIN: Hard to do and struggling. A big struggle right now for the Democratic Party. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and a beautiful book, St. Francis of Assisi, "A Life of Joy."

KENNEDY: Thanks for having me, Carol.

LIN: That is all the time we have for this hour. But coming up next on PEOPLE IN THE NEWS, Mel Gibson on turning faith into fortune.

At 8:00, CNN PRESENTS "Melting Point," a look at global warming and climate change. At 9:00 Eastern, LARRY KING WEEKEND. Larry's guest tonight, Donny Osmond. And I'll be back at 11:00 Eastern tonight. The reverend Jesse Jackson is going to talk to me about the Terri Schiavo case and his interview today with Michael Jackson.

The hour's headlines when I come back and then PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 27, 2005 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It is March 27: you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
From CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. To Florida in a moment, but, first, a look at what's happening right now in the news.

Israel is delaying the handover of a West Bank town saying the Palestinians have not met demands involving militants. The town's mayor accuses Israelis of stalling. Delays preceded handovers of two other West Bank towns in recent weeks.

Authorities in Iowa confirm that a body found in an abandoned mobile home is that of a 10-year-old girl missing since Thursday. Sheriff officials say Jetseta Gage died of suffocation. A registered sex offender accused of snatching Gage from her home is in jail on $1 million bond.

A dangerous storm system is sweeping through the Southeast. It threatens to bring tornadoes, hail and flooding, from Arkansas to the Carolinas. Parts of Alabama have seen minor street flooding. Forecasters believe the storm will later drench the Northeast.

And, tonight, we are hearing conflicting reports on the fate of Terri Schiavo. The contradictions are not only coming from Schiavo's husband and her wife's parents, but within the Schindler camp itself.

An attorney for Schiavo's parents says she is now past the point of no return, but a spokesman for the family says that is simply not the case. We have reporters covering the story in Tallahassee and Pinellas Park, Florida, where the hospice is.

So, let's begin with CNN's Bob Franken live outside the hospice.

Bob, the implication is either Terri Schiavo is on the brink of death or she is not. Do you know what her status is?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, some independent observers are saying that her condition doesn't seem to have changed that much, so that would seem to favor the family's version of this.

I should point out, Carol, that within the hour the family announced that she was allowed, Terri Schiavo was allowed to have holy communion, the Catholic right of holy communion. She had a drop of wine placed on her lips, no wafer was given. This unusual turn of events was done because permission was granted on this special occasion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Easter Sunday, a day of celebration for Christians, but for most here, a day of sadness and defiance.

CROWD: Let Terri live!

FRANKEN: The severely disabled protesters were helped out of their wheelchairs to lay down on the ground at one of the entrances to Terri Schiavo's hospice. Their act of civil disobedience.

All Terri needs is a wheelchair and a (INAUDIBLE). And she can live in the (INAUDIBLE) at home with her family like the rest of us.

FRANKEN: The protests intensified in spite of requests from Terri Schiavo's blood relatives for the demonstrators to stay away. Even a direct appeal by her brother was met with resistance.

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Our family is asking -- it's not going to help at all to do anything that is going to cause -- anything that will lead to arrests. We're just asking, the cops are here to do a job. I know you don't agree with it, but they're trying their best. And I'm just asking from the family, I don't care if you're here prayerful and peaceful, but if we can just keep it prayerful and peaceful.

FRANKEN: Another group went to the home of Michael Schiavo to protest his insistence that the time had come for his wife to die.

Back at the hospice protest leaders try to pressure Governor Jeb Bush.

GOV. JEB BUSH, (R) FLORIDA: I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution, or for that matter from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made.

LARRY KLAYMAN, FRM. CHAIRMAN, JUDICIAL WATCH: Now, the governor has said that he wants to err on the side of life. I hope he didn't decide to err on the side of the polls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: So, the volume is heating up here. But, inside in the peace of the hospice, Carol, Terri Schiavo is passing her days. And everybody agrees that she doesn't have many left -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks for the latest from there, Bob Franken.

You just heard a snippet from Governor Jeb Bush, because the pressure is on the governor right now.

Terri Schiavo's parents have repeatedly asked the Florida governor to save their daughter from starving to death. CNN's Ed Henry spoke exclusively to the governor today and has more of his interview on that.

Ed, the governor could not be more clear about what he is willing to do or not do.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Carol. As a Catholic, as you mentioned, Governor Bush has faced a lot of heat over Easter weekend, pressure from people saying he needs to step in here and try to save Terri Schiavo's life. The parents have issued desperate pleas that he take custody of Terri Schiavo and reinsert the feeding tube. And some protesters have been outside his mansion comparing him -- going so far as to compare him to Pontius Pilate.

So the governor was a bit weary looking and emotional when I caught up with him after Easter Sunday mass.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions if that's OK. On this Easter, what are your thoughts about Terri Schiavo?

J. BUSH: I'm sad that she's in the situation that she's in. I feel bad for her family. My heart goes out to the Schindlers, and for that matter, to Michael. This has not been an easy thing for any member of the family. But, most particularly, for Terri Schiavo. With out all of the -- I think there's enough uncertainty for people to have doubt. And I do.

HENRY: If she dies, are you at peace with the fact that you feel you've done all you can?

J. BUSH: Absolutely.

HENRY: But what do you say to the parents who say you can do more and should do more?

J. BUSH: I can't. I'd love to, but I can't.

HENRY: And why is that? Because you're interpretation of the state law is that you can not...

J. BUSH: No, it's not a question of interpretation. I mean, I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or, for that matter, from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: While there's divided legal opinion on whether or not the governor can intervene, all sides do agree that if he stepped in, that would create another nasty, legal showdown. And the governor was making it very clear there, he's not going down that road -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Ed.

A top lawmaker who championed political intervention in the Terri Schiavo case apparently once faced a similar life or death decision. According to the "Los Angeles Times" House Speaker Tom DeLay and his family chose not to keep his comatose father hooked up to machines after he was injured in a freak accident.

A spokesman for DeLay says the two cases are entirely different. DeLay's father was on a ventilator and other machines. The spokesman notes that Terri Schiavo was being kept alive by food and water, which everyone needs to survive. Of course, there are doctors who say that a feeding tube is, in fact, life support.

By the way, I want to note that we are expecting any moment now a news conference to take place on the Terri Schiavo case outside the hospice. We are going it be hearing from supporters from the parents side. Randall Terry, as well as their spiritual adviser Pat Mahoney likely to give an update on Terri Schiavo's conditions. So stay tuned. As soon as that happens, we're going to bring it to you live.

But Right now, we want to move overseas on this Easter Sunday to the Vatican, because for the first time since he became pope, John Paul II did not give the Easter blessing to the crowd at St. Peters Square today. And it was a frustrating moment for him, and an emotional one for the crowd.

We're going to get the latest now from our Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: Not even the morning rain could keep pilgrims away from St. Peters Square. The feeling of anticipation to see the pope at the window of his apostolic palace was palpable.

Elise is from Los Angeles, but studies in London.

ELISE VETZEL, PILGRIM: Oh, my gosh, that would be just glorious. I would love to see the pope. That would be amazing.

VINCI: Katie is an American student in Rome for a semester.

KATIE HAMMOND, PILGRIM: I would hope that we would see him, just because it would mean that he is well enough to come greet us.

VINCI: As expected, the pope didn't preside over the long Easter mass which he followed on television from his study. But at the end of it, as a top cardinal was preparing to read the pope's traditional Easter Sunday blessing, the frail figure of the 84-year-old pontiff emerged.

The crowd below broke into a long applause, some were overwhelmed. The pope sat for almost 15 minutes while the cardinal read his message calling for peace in Africa and the Middle East and for all those suffering from hunger and poverty.

At one point he tried to utter a few words, but simply couldn't. Unable to bless the crowd with words, he used his hand.

Pilgrims and tourists, including those who hours earlier had only hoped to see him felt rewarded.

VETZEL: I just felt completely unified with all the people there and all the people, you know, watching on television. So, it was a very glorious moment, I thought.

HAMMOND: The whole thing was beautiful. What I thought was best was just the crowd's reaction to him. You could tell that everyone was so pleased that he was well enough to come and greet everyone.

VINCI (on camera): Because the pope is first and foremost a priest, his inability to give mass on Easter Sunday must have been a terrible burden for him. At the same time, he can take comfort from the fact that he silenced message of suffering continues to have an impact on pilgrims here in Rome and around the world.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Easter celebrations were held around the world today. In Jerusalem, pilgrims gathered at holy sites for sunrise services marking the day with prayers and hymns. The various services underscore a big doctrinal difference for Christians. Roman Catholics believe Christ was buried at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, while many Protestants believe he was buried in the nearby garden tomb.

In Baghdad, Iraqi security forces were on heightened alert today as the Christian minority there celebrated Easter. Parishioners at the Virgin Mary Church sent out happy greetings to all Iraqis. Christians make up just 3 percent of Iraq's population.

In Lebanon, last night's bombing in a Christian Beirut suburb overshadowed Easter services there today. Deep political divisions since the assassination of a former prime minister are raising fears Lebanon could slide back into its violent past. Following mass, Lebanon's president called for Lebanese citizens to stay united despite the renewed tensions.

Well, they had packed a house -- packed house for Easter services right back here at home.

The U.S. military sponsored this sunrise service at the amphitheater at Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia today. That was the Air Force Band and Choir providing the music.

In the meantime, he calls himself a warrior, vowing to the fight the allegations against him. Straight ahead tonight, Michael Jackson speaks out for the first time since his trial. Hear what he has to say is keeping him strong.

Plus, the fight to save Philadelphia. A string of gun violence has the city on edge. CNN speaks with a mother who says her neighborhood is like the streets of Iraq.

And later, on this Easter, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Joins me to talk about his new children's book on Catholic faith. And among the most popular stories this hour on CNN.com, an ultramarathoner pushes limits of the human body, running 262 miles nonstop. Wow. Click on to CNN.com for more details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. We're going to take you straight out to Pinellas Park, outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo is. This is Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue talking about her condition.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

RANDALL TERRY, FOUNDER OF OPERATION RESCUE: Then we must continue to fight to save her life.

So, in that light, we are going to -- Reverend Mahoney is going to go to D.C. to continue to ratchet up the pleadings with the Congress, with the president with the DOJ, with anybody that has guts up there to intervene and to save her life.

The subpoenas were issued, as you know, and they, as of yet, have not been enforced. Pat, tell people what is going on and I'm going bring up one other thing and then we'll take questions.

REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, DIRECTOR CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: Hi. Reverend Patrick Mahoney, M-A-H-O-N-E-Y, director of the Christian Defense Coalition based in Washington D.C.

When this project began, our spiritual purpose was clear, to be a voice for Terri. We are Terri's voice.

Right now Terri is fighting for her life. For those supporting Michael Schiavo, it's clear that Terri's fight contradicts everything they say. If Terri wanted the feeding tube to be removed, she would have expired four, five, six days. Randall and I were involved in leading efforts with Nancy Cruzan. She expired after six days. But Terri is fighting. It is now day ten.

Two weeks ago Terri Schiavo -- this hospice received a subpoena for Terri Schiavo to appear in Washington, D.C., before the United States House of Representatives tomorrow, March 28. Terri has fought to be alive until tomorrow! We are going Washington, D.C. to say to Speaker Hastert, enforce the order.

To Speaker Hastert, Terri has stayed alive. You issued a subpoena. It was clearly told that medically she could fly to Washington, D.C., you issued a subpoena for Terri Schiavo to be in Washington, D.C., tomorrow and we're going on behalf of Terri and demanding that they enforce their subpoenas.

Speaker Hastert, were you playing politics? This isn't a joke. This is a woman's life. She's starving to death. Were you trying to score points? Were you trying to score points with the religious right or conservatives? Speaker Hastert enforced the order. Terri Schiavo is fighting so she can appear. Enforce this order. We are going up tomorrow. We are calling supporters. All of this has emerged over the last couple of hours. And we are saying, this is not an issue to play politics on. A woman is starving to death. A woman is being starved to death. She has already made it ten days. Tomorrow will be 11.

Enforce the subpoena. Bring Terri Schiavo to Washington, D.C., as you asked to do. Please, we beg you. And we are going to plead for Terri to be her voice in Washington, D.C., March 28. They asked Terri to be in Washington.

I just want to say, finally, I've been hearing all about if Governor Bush came in here, he would be violating Judge Greer's order and there would be a constitutional crisis and all of that. Judge Greer has violated the House subpoena. Judge Greer has not obeyed the subpoena.

And, so, we are saying, if the United States -- look, are you playing politics with Terri or do you really believe that there are constitutional violations and you want to bring her up? If you're playing politics, then you're going to do what you've done, not enforced the order. But if you are really sincere, if you really meant it, if you really believed in it, then let's bring Terri.

We're going -- she can't go tomorrow. We will be there. We will go to Speaker Hastert's office. We will go to the White House. We will go to congressional leaders. I leave at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow. We have a news conference 12:00 noon in front of the White House and then we're going right to the speaker's office. And we're going to ask. She's fighting, Speaker Hastert. Do you hear us? She's fighting for her life. Don't play politics with someone's life.

Thank you.

QUESTION: ...mentioned something about the subpoena...

LARRY KLAYMAN: Let me say that in one of my former lives I was a Justice Department lawyer, I was a trial lawyer. So, I know a little bit about these subpoenas. The fact that Terri has been subpoenaed and she's now being put to a death sentence. To kill a witness is obstruction of justice.

Congress has no choice but to enforce that subpoena and to hold Judge Greer in contempt of court. And the Department of Justice, the Bush administration can actually begin a proceeding to hold the judge in contempt, as well as prosecute him for obstruction of justice.

He stepped beyond his judicial mantle. He no longer has his immunity by virtue of the fact that he is now in contempt of a congressional subpoena, which could be enforced once Congress goes through the first steps through the Department of Justice.

So this is super important this trip to Washington. And this is not far fetched. This is actually the law. A judge is committing obstruction of justice here in Florida. TERRY: Every time we hear people say that their hands are tied, there is nothing they can do. I would encourage everybody, go online, crack open a book, read the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration of Independence is the organic beginning of this republic. And this republic was based upon an idea that laws come from our maker, rights come from our maker and when the political powers that be are destroying those rights and those laws -- the framers actually said, it's the duty to alter or abolish those forms of government. We were based on the idea that some things, some rights are higher than current parliamentary law or the laws or the decrees of a king or the laws or the decrees of a court.

If Governor Bush and if President Bush and if the United States House and Senate really believe that there is a crime being committed against this woman, they have a duty in the frame framework in the American ideal of justice. They have a duty to intervene on her behalf and to not do so is to betray the very premise of this country.

So, Reverend Mahoney is going as an ambassador for Terri. The others that are going to be there -- she was subpoenaed to be there tomorrow and she can't be there. But they have the authority in Washington to enforce that subpoena. So, we're saying, what in the name of God and all that is good is going on here that the entire U.S. government and the entire Florida government lay prostrate at the feet of a tin pot judge named Greer. A little dictator, a little petty dictator.

And if you think these are name calling, read what they said in the Declaration of Independence. Read the words that they used at the time of these debates that were going on. This is the stuff that freedom is made of on one hand and the stuff that tyranny is made of on the other. And as Edmund Burke said, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. We're tired of that happening. Pat is going up to beg. Are there any questions for any of the three of us?

QUESTION: Is there a point where physically she may be past?

TERRY: The question is, is there a point at which Terri will be physically not able to be brought back? I am not a physician, but there would be a point. Obviously, the most critical point is if she dies. But as of right now she is still conscious. She is still responding, she is still communicating and this girl is fighting for her life.

All of us who have lost family members know that when they're ready to go, they go. If Terri wanted to go, she'd be gone. She said, "I wah" -- try to say I want to live. And it's obvious from the fact that she is still alive she wants to live. So, for the love of God, Congress, president, governor, legislators here, DCF, get off of your hands and intervene and stop letting Judge Greer control the will of every branch of government.

LIN: All right, you've just been listening to Randall Terry, one of the representatives of Terri Schiavo's parents. Let's go to, actually, we have much more to cover on this. We're going to take a quick break, but then we're going to separate, frankly, fact from fiction of some of the things that are being said at the microphone in a very heated moment today. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. Welcome back to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. We were just hearing from Randall Terry and Reverend Pat Mahoney, founders of two Christian-based fundamentalist groups that are politically active in the Terri Schiavo case representing Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers.

Let's go to Bob Franken live outside the hospice there. Bob, let's quickly separate from some fact from fiction of some statements made at the microphone, which were pretty inflammatory.

Number one, they both say that Terri Schiavo is fighting for her life. More than two dozen court decisions have supported the notion that she's in a vegetative state. Fact from reality?

FRANKEN: Well, both of those statements are correct. What they're saying is that contrary to what the family's lawyer said on CBS today, that she is not past the point of return. The family was totally outraged when they heard of that, because they have been trying to make the point repeatedly that there is a little bit of time left because they don't want folks to give up. All those that they're asking to help them, including Pat Mahoney going to Washington tomorrow to try and muscle Congress into getting back into this.

LIN: And no real way to know. No scientific way to know at this point, according to the court decisions, to know whether she is, in fact, saying anything or fighting for her life.

But Congress, they're claiming, can enforce the subpoena. Last week when there was extraordinary congressional action, one congressional committee said, you know what we want to see Terri Schiavo for ourselves, because we're considering all kinds of legislation in this matter. So, let's bring her to Washington or maybe we can come down there.

The fact is, if Congress can enforce this the subpoena and nobody is -- I mean, they're claiming that they -- that Congress is essentially hanging Terri Schiavo out to dry. What's the reality check here?

FRANKEN: Well, number one, the hearing has been postponed. Number two, there's a tremendous constitutional question over which part has primacy here. The Tenth Amendment of the Constitution says all powers not listed in the previous amendments are vested in the states. And traditionally states have determined matters of probate. So, one argument could be that maybe Congress can assume some extraordinary power, on the other side of this is the contention that this is a state matter.

LIN: But you know Congress, Bob. If Congress wanted to enforce the subpoena, they would have an attorney active in this case. Does it seem to you that the consensus is on Capitol Hill that they are done with this matter? That the courts have ruled?

FRANKEN: Well, the consensus seems to be that. But beyond that we have to add the reality that the polls have shown that the involvement of Congress is not necessarily been a favorable -- gotten a favorable response.

LIN: Also, I can't remember if it was Randall Terry or Reverend Pat Mahoney making the claim that there were members of Congress declaring that a crime was being committed, that Terri Schiavo was being unfairly sentenced to death, when, in fact, the congressional action wasn't about a declaration of whether a crime was being committed. The congressional action was, hey, should the federal courts have jurisdiction in this matter? Congress said yes. And the family had their day in court. In fact, they had all week to have many days in court all the way to the Florida Supreme Court as well as the U.S. Supreme Court.

So, in terms of separating fact from, you know, fantasy from reality there, Bob, what is your perspective on that claim?

FRANKEN: Well, in all probability, there was some member of Congress who said words to that effect. There is all kind of rhetoric going on.

Now, what happened was last Sunday when we participated in a covering that extraordinary session, the original legislation that was drafted would tried to mandate the courts to come up with certain rulings, but there are severe constitutional questions there. So, there was a piece of legislation which said the courts should consider this.

Well, then that ran into the legal realities of the federal court procedures. And judge after judge, and then justice after justice at the highest levels of the court came up with the standard of an emergency order, a temporary restraining order that would require, before it could be passed, a substantial likelihood of success with the ultimate lawsuit.

Every single one of the Federal judges said, OK, we've considered it and that's our conclusion. There is not a substantial likelihood it will succeed, therefore, no emergency order.

LIN: All right. And the bottom line is, Bob, that these, you know, these supporters of the parents are saying that Congress and the politicians are playing politics with Terri Schiavo. They're saying one thing out of one side of their mouth about the culture of life and doing nothing right now. Here is what the bottom line is, according to Governor Jeb Bush in terms of what anyone can do legally. This is what he had to say exclusively to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. BUSH: It's not a question of interpretation. I mean, I cannot violate a court order. I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or, for that matter, from the Florida Constitution that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: So, in effect, Bob, do you think that these spokespeople are asking the governor of Florida and the United States Congress to make an exception, break the law, do whatever it takes, violate the constitution if it means reinserting that feeding tube?

FRANKEN: Yes, as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, the same Rev. Patrick Mahoney in an interview a couple of days ago on CNN said if there is a constitutional crisis, referring to Governor Bush, if there is a constitutional crisis, so be it. In effect, they're saying there may be some of what they regard as niceties and other conclude as an important separation of powers, but that the issue here sort of trumps all of that.

LIN: All right. Bob Franken, thank you so much. It's good to tap into all of your experience on Capitol Hill on this story. Thank you.

In the meantime, another big story brewing right here in the southeastern part of the United States. Some nasty weather cropping up and it's pretty dangerous. We are going to check on where it is headed. Coming up.

Also, slipping into the sea. Up next, our Miles O'Brien gives us a preview of his global warming special, "Melting Point."

Plus, using the Terri Schiavo case as a teaching tool for others. One Catholic priest makes a plea to his parishioners.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: You won't want to miss this tonight. Only on CNN, "Melting Point." Miles O'Brien tracks the damage and the serious threats from global warming. That is at 8:00 Eastern, but right now, Miles is joining me with a special preview involving polar bears.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Carol. We spent a lot of time looking at the scientific facts about global warming. The fact is the planet is warming and the scientific consensus by most of the world's scientists is that humans are hastening that warming. Now a lot of people when they hear that say, so what? When you start looking at just who or what is affected by all of this, you realize that the problem is very real and it has an impact on things you might care about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): They call it the polar bear capital of the world. Churchill, Manitoba on the western banks of Hudson Bay is probably the best place in the world for humans to catch a glimpse of the magnificent mammals that rule the Arctic ice pack.

But the bears are in trouble, big trouble. For them, it's a matter of survival.

RICHARD ROPMANIUK, POLAR BEAR POLICEMAN: We've been chasing her since Wednesday -- about 10:00 we got the first call.

O'BRIEN: That's Richard Romaniuk, polar bear policeman. He's a very busy man these days.

ROMANIUK: Well, last night we had four calls, one at 5:00, one at about 1:00, one at about 3:00 and one at about 5:00. Hey, buddy, you here by yourself? The last three years, 2001, 2002, 2003 were the busiest years the program has ever had.

O'BRIEN: The bears are coming to town with alarming frequency, weak, famished and scavenging for food.

ROMANIUK: Last year of 176 bears that were captured, about 135 were captured in and around the dump.

O'BRIEN: Polar bears are nature's ultimate binge eaters. During the winter, once the Hudson Bay freezes over, they take to the ice with a voracious appetite for seal. They hunt and eat as much as they can get their paws on and then when the ice gets thin in the spring, they return to terra firma for a four-month fast.

NICK LUNN, SCIENTIST: The amount of time bears in western Hudson Bay can spend on the sea ice is critical for their survival.

O'BRIEN: Scientist Nick Lunn has logged two dozen years studying polar bears for the Canadian Wildlife Service.

LUNN: We have seen bears come in showing poorer and poorer condition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Now, when Nick Lunn talks about poorer and poorer conditions, adult males are 15 percent lighter than they were 20 years ago, adult females with cubs, 20 percent lighter. And the real reason here is that polar bear buffet, Carol, is opening later and closing sooner. The sea ice in Hudson Bay turns to its liquid state three weeks earlier than it did in 1970, so that brief time that they eat is being shrunk and the amount of time they have to use it to sustain that food on land increases. Eventually they're going to have to move out of there.

LIN: The title of your special, "Melting Point," I mean that's a frightening title. Are you talking about the end of the planet as we know it? Is it that serious a situation?

O'BRIEN: That would be probably a little more apocalyptic than what we're talking about, but we are talking about the possibility of sea level rising over the next coming decades by a foot and a half.

LIN: That is a lot.

O'BRIEN: That is a lot. A lot of people say, so what? That means 100 million people will have to move. As the tsunami, terrible as it was laid there, we love to be by the sea and the impact of those rising sea levels means a lot. And then of course for people who are dependent on ice, the Inuit in Alaska, the polar bears, of course, that need that ice to sustain their lifestyle, one way or another or live on, this is a big problem. So, the effects are out there. The science is real. We wanted to cut through the rhetoric because there's been a lot of junk science related to this, bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry that has obscured the issues.

LIN: All right. You took the cutest characters to tease your special so I appreciate that.

O'BRIEN: That's kind of what teasers are for. Use the cute characters.

LIN: The polar bears and much, much more on "Melting Point" tonight. Thank you so much. It's a one hour. Actually, it's one of four CNN special reports on critical issues facing our world in the next 25 years. Miles O'Brien tracks the global warming threat and you can see the entire program tonight at 8:00 Eastern only on CNN.

In the meantime, right here on CNN, you are going to see golf ball-sized hail, funnel clouds and flash flooding and they are creating major anxieties in parts of the South today. Alabama is just one of the states getting hammered by the thunderstorms. So, let's go to meteorologist Brad Huffines with the latest on this wicked weather, dangerous stuff that you worried about yesterday, Brad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LIN: Thanks, Brad.

In the meantime a nation divided, but his Catholic congregation is not. Straight ahead tonight, how a Washington priest is using the Terri Schiavo case as a teaching tool for others.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. I just want to give you the very latest on what is happening in the Terri Schiavo case. You've got people representing the parents right now who are actually in total disagreement as to Terri Schiavo's physical condition. You have the attorney David Gibbs representing the family who says that death appears imminent and that there is no turning back. She is at the point of no return even if there was legislative action, she would not survive it.

On the other hand, we just heard from another set of spokes people representing the religious right constituency that has been supporting the parents in this and what Randall Terry and Reverend Pat Mahoney are saying is that it is not too late and that they are going to Washington, D.C. They are demanding that Congress enforce a subpoena. A congressional committee had last week subpoenaed Terri Schiavo to appear before the committee so that they could then see her for themselves. They're demanding that Congress enforce that, get the lawyers together, get her feeding tube reinstated so that she can appear before Congress.

Jeb Bush, Governor Jeb Bush they are saying has the legal authority to take custody of Terri Schiavo. Jeb Bush, in an exclusive interview with CNN says, no, he does not. They are asking me to break the law. So, that is where the story stands at this very moment.

And a lot of people feel conflicted about this across the country. So, we sent CNN's JJ Ramberg to a congregation to see how they are dealing with this moral dilemma.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JJ RAMBURG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Parishioners gather at St. Thomas More Church to celebrate Easter and to learn lessons about more current issues of life and death.

REV. CHARLES POPE, ST. THOMAS MORE CHURCH: And I also want to try, if you permit me, to enter into a discussion with you a little bit about this case that we've read about and heard about in the news and that of Terri Schiavo.

RAMBURG: As the nation watched Terri Schiavo's family struggle over her fate, causing many to wonder what they would do in the same situation, Father Charles Pope hoped to guide his congregation on the church's teachings around a difficult issue.

POPE: When things come up in the news like they have, I think it's a teaching moment and it's a time for us to enter into a reflection with the people of God over what God might be asking us to think based on his words.

RAMBURG: The Catholic Church has been clear, calling it morally obligatory to provide food and water for most patients in vegetative states. But Father Pope has a personal experience that solidifies his faith. As a young seminarian, he spent a year working with mentally handicapped patients, many of whom were on feeding tubes.

POPE: We were taught to reverence their life and to hold their hand and to speak to them and we were taught that perhaps we don't know what they experience.

RAMBURG: Over the past week, the controversy surrounding Terri Schiavo has divided not only her family, but also the nation.

(on-camera): But here at St. Thomas More Church, the congregation is generally united. An overwhelming majority of them believe that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube should never have been removed.

MICHAEL E. RUSSELL, PARISHIONER: She may actually be inside of herself saying, I really really want to live, but we have no way of knowing that and yet we're going to take this woman's life from her just because that life has become inconvenient and inconvenient is no reason to take a life.

RAMBURG: Father Pope says this is just the jumping off point. He plans on having more discussions about life support, living wills and God's teachings. But in the meanwhile, he says, Terri Schiavo's family is in his prayers. JJ Ramberg, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And believe you me, with so much grim news on this Easter Sunday I'm so happy to share a light-hearted story but an interesting one. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to join me, there he is, to talk about his new children's book about St. Francis of Assisi. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: "A Life of Joy." That is the title of a new book for kids about the remarkable life of St. Francis of Assisi as a young man. It is written by a first-time author of a children's book, but he has a very familiar name. Joining me to talk about this is author Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Robert, it's good to have you and what a pleasure to look at this children's book. It is so beautifully illustrated. And I'm just wondering why you chose St. Francis of Assisi, the patron saint for animals and the environment.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., AUTHOR, "A LIFE OF JOY": Carol, I have six children. When I was growing up, we were read all kinds of books. St. Francis himself was the patron saint of my family. He was my father's namesake or my father was his namesake, Robert Francis Kennedy, as was I. We had shrines Franciscan iconography around our house and shrines to St. Francis. But I was looking for a good book on the saints to read to my children. I couldn't really find anything that would compete for their attention, these computer-aged kids. So I went about, tried to write one that would hold their attention and I think this one does it.

LIN: What age group do you think this is directed at because it has a pretty complicated storyline?

KENNEDY: It does, but I've read it. I started out. I tested this book by reading it to my three-year-old and it held his attention with the pictures. The pictures are so great. The paintings by Dennis Nolan are so wonderful that I think even somebody as young as three, it can hold their attention. My kids that I'm reading this to are from three to 12 years old and they all like the book.

LIN: Three is pretty remarkable, Robert. You must have a brilliant 3-year-old. There is a page here, on page 13, there's a story about St. Francis of Assisi's fear despite his great accomplishments as a knight, a very brave knight, that he has a terrible fear of lepers and he encounters one on the road and, initially runs and then reconsiders. You point out the moral dilemma of how a young man who struggles with his, with the definitions that society places on him and his own expectations, how he tries to confront his own fears. Do you think, how do you think this translates for kids today?

KENNEDY: Well, I think he had, St. Francis had a lot of important messages for us. He looked at, you know, he really almost, although he was very much a conformist in some ways, he really broke with the church and with the orthodoxy that was kind of the domineering theme of the church of that day and he said, you know, we shouldn't be looking at this kind of fundamentalist view of the bible. What we need to be looking at is the central ministries of Christ's life, the central messages of Christ's life which were tolerance and generosity and love and open-mindedness towards others. And he really, because of his -- he was so successful at persuading so many people that this was, the crux of a spiritual life, that he's credited with leading Europe out of the dark ages at the end of the 12th century.

LIN: Robert, I have to ask you, when I listen to you talk about your faith, though you didn't choose a political path, you come from a political family. When you take a look at the current events, how do you balance the notion of faith in public life? When you take a look at the debate that Congress has had and the courts have had in the Terri Schiavo case, do you see that faith has a role in public life and public policy?

KENNEDY: Well, I think faith definitely has a role in public life and I think all of us would be worse off. You know, I think religious belief, also, should be aired in the public square. I think we'd all be worse off if Dr. Martin Luther King would not had aired - had not taken a strong moral stance that was also a political stance. But I think that we also have to separate, you know, it's difficult walking with one foot in the spiritual world and another foot in the material world. But, it's something we all have to do.

On the Terri Schiavo case, you know, I think, I'm not an expert on this area, but it seems to me that the proper moral stance is to always err towards life, but that we should be consistent about that in all of our policies in addressing the death penalty, in addressing abortion, in addressing, even more importantly, our attitudes towards war and towards the hundreds of thousands of children who are dying every year around this country that we aren't paying attention to and that we should try to separate these issues from political issues and be consistent, be consistent, you know, stop trying to politicize them. Be consistent around the world in our application.

LIN: Hard to do and struggling. A big struggle right now for the Democratic Party. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and a beautiful book, St. Francis of Assisi, "A Life of Joy."

KENNEDY: Thanks for having me, Carol.

LIN: That is all the time we have for this hour. But coming up next on PEOPLE IN THE NEWS, Mel Gibson on turning faith into fortune.

At 8:00, CNN PRESENTS "Melting Point," a look at global warming and climate change. At 9:00 Eastern, LARRY KING WEEKEND. Larry's guest tonight, Donny Osmond. And I'll be back at 11:00 Eastern tonight. The reverend Jesse Jackson is going to talk to me about the Terri Schiavo case and his interview today with Michael Jackson.

The hour's headlines when I come back and then PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

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