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American Morning
Key Setback in Jackson Trial; Prison Abuse Stories Continue to Emerge; Preserving the Art of Aghanistan
Aired March 29, 2005 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. 9:30 here in New York and good morning. Nice to you have with us today. Soledad's on vacation this week.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I am filling in. I'm Carol Costello. Back to the Michael Jackson trial, and accusations he abused other boys. In a minute we'll hear actual tapes from 1993 in which one of the accusers speaks frankly to a psychiatrist about Jackson and what happened to him. He was a boy then, grown up now. We will talk to his uncle.
HEMMER: Also this hour, the lost treasures of Afghanistan. An amazing story of what it took to save them from the Taliban finally coming to light. We'll talk to a producer with National Geographic Television about what really happened there. So we'll get to it.
COSTELLO: Yes, we will. It's a fascinating story, too. Let's get to the other headlines of the day. Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Carol and Bill. Good morning again, everyone. Here are some of those stories "Now in the News."
Supporters of Terri Schiavo's parents holding a vigil this hour. The Schindlers arriving at the Florida hospice just a short time ago. Schiavo's father said she is weak and emaciated. It has been more than 11 days since she has had food or water. The Reverend Jesse Jackson among those taking part in the vigil today. He is visiting at the Schindler's invitation.
COSTELLO: Officials in Hong Kong are reporting a strong aftershock following the earthquake off of Indonesia's western coast. Humanitarian groups are rushing medical supplies and healthcare workers to the area. Indonesian government officials say more than 300 people were killed in the 8.7 quake. That number, though, expected to rise. But officials say the disaster is not as bad as first anticipated.
New details expected shortly about U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and his connection to the oil-for-food program in Iraq. The report is expected to sharply criticize the secretary-general's oversight of the $64 billion humanitarian aid program, the largest in U.N. history. But the panel is expected to clear him of conflict of interest. The committee's 70-page report is due out later today.
And catch up on your winks. Yep, that's right. That's the advice from the National Sleep Foundation. Most Americans average just under seven hours a night, when some experts say we should be getting as many as nine hours a night. But lack of sleep can cause problems in health, on the road, in the workplace and in your personal life. And Bill, one tip to try and sleep more every night? No caffeine after 2:00 p.m.
HEMMER: I like that.
WALLACE: Yes.
HEMMER: Bring it back in the morning, though, right, Kelly? Because we can't survive without it.
WALLACE: That's right. We need it all day long.
HEMMER: Thank you, Kelly.
WALLACE: Sure.
HEMMER: A key setback for Michael Jackson now. The judge in that case deciding to allow the prosecution to present evidence of previous molestation allegations. Raymond Chandler's nephew was 13 years old when he accused Jackson of molesting him. That case was settled out of court and Jackson has always maintained his innocence.
Chandler's also the author of "All That Glitters: The Crime and the Cover-Up," with the story of what he says happened to his nephew. Raymond Chandler is my guest now here in New York. Good morning.
RAYMOND CHANDLER, AUTHOR, "ALL THAT GLITTERS": Good morning.
HEMMER: What do you think of the judge's ruling from yesterday?
CHANDLER: I was very pleased with it. I think it was the right thing to do, especially under California law, which, you know...
HEMMER: Which changed 10 years ago, back in 1995.
CHANDLER: Changed in 1995, yes.
HEMMER: Now, the boy's mother will testify, the mother of your nephew, essentially.
CHANDLER: Correct.
HEMMER: Do you have any indication what she might say?
CHANDLER: Yes, I do. She's going to be able to place her son in a bedroom alone at night with Michael Jackson for conservatively, 50 to 60 nights, in multiple locations around the world, which is going to refute Jackson's claim that these are just sort of impromptu sleepovers where a kid just comes in. A sleepover does not last for two months.
HEMMER: She's testifying on behalf of her own son. But where is she getting this information? I'm assuming directly from her son. Is that right?
CHANDLER: No, directly from her own eyes. She was there when the boy and Michael went into the bedroom every night and came out every morning and went behind closed doors.
HEMMER: You've been estranged from your nephew for quite some time, right? And your brother as well.
CHANDLER: Right, that's true.
HEMMER: Without getting into that aspect of your family relationship, why isn't your nephew testifying?
CHANDLER: I believe that his reason is because he's just sick and tired of being the Michael Jackson boy. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him. Personally, I must say I don't agree with it. But I understand it. You know, he's had to move three times in the past ten years because every time Jackson comes up in the news, the media finds out where my nephew lives, they camp out on his doorstep. I think he's just sick of it.
HEMMER: How old is he?
CHANDLER: Twenty-five.
HEMMER: And he lives where?
CHANDLER: He lives in the New York area.
HEMMER: All right. Is he in this country now?
CHANDLER: To my knowledge, no.
HEMMER: And he left the country for what reason?
CHANDLER: I think just to get away from it. And, you know, I don't think it was particularly because of the trial, but to get away from the media, to not be found by the media.
HEMMER: We have two bits of sound here that we want to play here. This is part of an interview that a psychiatrist conducted with your nephew, asking him about the charges. Listen here as we watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel that you could have somehow prevented all this stuff with Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because originally -- remember I told you there were a couple things he did and I said don't do that? It worked those times, so maybe I could have done it for all of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you could have been more forceful, is that what you're saying?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why weren't you?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: It was hard to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because he's an adult. He's overwhelming. He's famous. He's powerful.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HEMMER: The end there, he's an adult, he's overwhelming, he's famous, he's powerful. How old was your nephew when that interview was done?
CHANDLER: Thirteen.
HEMMER: Thirteen years young. What do you take out of that when you hear it?
CHANDLER: Well, putting that together with everything else that my nephew said and all the other evidence that was collected, what you see you here -- it was part of the manipulation. Michael used his fame, the trust children had in him, his reputation of being a child advocate, so to speak, to gain the trust of these children. And he constantly used it. When the children would balk, he would, you know, lay a guilt trip on them. If you loved me -- he would tell my nephew -- he would name other boys who did sexual acts with him, and tell my nephew, if you loved me as much as they did, you would do these things, too.
HEMMER: We come back to the persistent question as to why in this case your nephew did not leave. Why would he can go back to Neverland and hang out with Michael Jackson? That was asked also by the psychiatrist. Listen again.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you voluntarily went back there. You could have said, I don't want to go to Neverland again, no?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So why did you go back?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because regardless of the fact that I went to Neverland, he would be with me, no matter what. He was always with me. I couldn't just say I want to hang out with you today, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: It's not that easy. He would cry and say, you don't love me anymore. It would be like, a whole deal, and you know, it was hard.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HEMMER: This case was settled out of court for millions. Some say $20 million, perhaps more. Why settle? Why not press it on the criminal side?
CHANDLER: Well, you've got to go back to the timeline. At the time the civil suit was settled -- this was a civil case -- there were no charges filed. It wasn't a choice between settling a civil case and testifying in a criminal. The criminal allegations -- the district attorney didn't approach him until five months later and say OK, we're ready to press charges now. And their answer at the time, by the way, that's one of the biggest myths that was perpetuated for 12 years, that they refused to testify in a criminal case.
HEMMER: I mentioned you'd been estranged for several years from your nephew. You've written a book. What's your motivation for coming onto programs like this and talking this way?
CHANDLER: Right. There's no money in this to me. Any profit that comes out of this is going to child abuse. I've been saying that even before I -- when I said I'm thinking about it. I've been saying that for years. The motive is that the last part of my book, if people read it, they'll see it's devoted to the actual major subject of child abuse.
Take away the fame and the fortune, and this is no different than any other child abuse case, any other pedophile case. To the degree that he's able to do this because of his fame, it's different, but it's the same in kind. And people need to understand how this works. This is a dark subject. People do not want to talk about it. Yet the numbers of people affected by child abuse is amazing. And yet, people don't want to talk about it.
HEMMER: Would you like to make up with your brother?
CHANDLER: Oh, yes, I'm sure one day we will.
HEMMER: "All That Glitters" is the name of the book. Raymond Chandler, thanks for your time.
CHANDLER: Thank you very much. Here's Carol.
COSTELLO: It's been a surprising turnaround in U.S.-run prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barbara Starr has the story live from the Pentagon. Good morning, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, you know, it was the only issue Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ever considered resigning over, the prison abuse scandal in Iraq. Things may be getting better, but some chilling details are still emerging about past cases.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) STARR (voice-over): Even as some U.S. troops have faced criminal charges of prisoner abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq, including the Abu Ghraib scandal that stunned the world, CNN has learned the number of reported cases has dropped dramatically. The latest statistics obtained by CNN show that from April 2004 through the end of the year, abuse reports recorded by the Army dropped more than 70 percent. Why? Officials credit better training for troops, improved prison conditions and clear interrogation procedures.
At the same time, Army numbers show 68 detainees have died in Army custody since 2002 in Afghanistan and Iraq, and 24 of those cases are confirmed or suspected homicides. Overall, 308 abuse cases were reported since 2002, with 107 still under investigation.
Some examples -- new details are emerging in the case of a U.S. soldier charged with beating a detainee to death at Bagram Air Base in 2002. Military investigators say the Afghan had his hands chained to a ceiling and then was beaten for days, the result eventually destroying his leg muscle tissue with repeated, unlawful knee strikes.
And at the San Diego Naval Base, a court-martial is planned this spring for a Navy SEAL charged with abusing this prisoner in Iraq in 2003. A suspect in a bombing attack, Manadel al Tumadi (ph), died a few hours after being turned over to the CIA at Abu Ghraib.
On Capitol Hill, some lawmakers are asking questions.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: So there's been no assessment of accountability of any senior officials, either within or outside of the Department of Defense for policies that may have contributed to abuses of prisoners.
STARR: The Pentagon insists multiple investigations have found no overall problem.
VICE ADM. ALBERT CHURCH: Clearly there was no policy, written or otherwise, at any level that directed or condoned torture or abuse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Still, Carol, the critics do believe the problem is more widespread than the Defense Department would like to publicly acknowledge. And, of course, more than 100 cases of reported abuse remain under investigation.
Carol.
COSTELLO: Barbara Starr, live at the Pentagon this morning. Thank you.
Let's get a check of the weather, because things are improving. Chad promises. It's up to you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Thank you, Chad, for that East Coast weather forecast. I appreciated it.
Hey, you know, there were Easter festivities Monday at the White House. Most of them were rained out, but David Letterman had a few jokes about them. Couldn't resist.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID LETTERMAN, LATE SHOW HOST: Today, down in Washington, they had the annual big Easter Egg Hunt out on the White House lawn. The kids found 800 eggs and 200 John Kerry ballots from Ohio. I did not know that. But at the White House Easter Egg Hunt, no eggs were actually found, but President Bush continues to claim that they're there. Oh, no, they're there.
COSTELLO: That was an easy one, wasn't it? It was good, though. It made me laugh.
Forget healthy. One fast food chain bucks the trend with a massive diet buster. This thing's disgusting. Andy's "Minding Your Business" this morning.
HEMMER: Also, hidden treasures uncovered in Afghanistan. The daring ways in which some of the most beautiful art in the world has been saved from destruction. That's next after a break on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: One of the lasting horrors of the Taliban in Afghanistan is the destruction of priceless and ancient works of art. The demolition of the giant Buddha statues in 2001, you remember that. It shocked the world. But many of Afghanistan's most magnificent treasures were saved, safely stored away at great personal risk. Their discovery is the subject of a documentary airing on PBS tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern Time "Lost Treasures of Afghanistan." The show's producer is James Barrett. Welcome, James.
JAMES BARRETT, DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER: Thanks.
COSTELLO: So, what sparked you to do this documentary?
BARRETT: Well, National Geographic Missions was doing work in Afghanistan with Dr. Fred Hebert, and they were about to unveil the Bactrian Horde, which they thought had been lost for 20 years.
COSTELLO: Of course, what is the Bactrian Horde?
BARRETT: Okay. The Bactrian Horde is 20,000 separate gold burial objects from the 1st century. It's the biggest gold collection from the ancient world. It's more gold than the tomb of King Tut.
COSTELLO: Wow. So when you discovered that was there, you were intrigued at how they could hide all of this stuff away from the Taliban in the first place?
BARRETT: Exactly. The Taliban would have melted it down. They would have given it to Osama bin Laden as a gift. But during the Taliban era, there was a resistance going on, much like the French Resistance during World War II, where artists and art lovers and museum directors were hiding the cultural heritage of Afghanistan from the Taliban.
COSTELLO: So they knew the Taliban was coming, and they went to -- it was great personal risk they took to save these things. So they came up with ingenious ways of saving them, like this very famous painter of Afghanistan.
BARRETT: Yes. Dr. Yousef Asefi, when he heard that the Taliban was slashing paintings in the presidential palace, he volunteered for a job restoring paintings in the national gallery. So he showed up to restore paintings, but what he really began doing was painting over in water color the elements the Taliban deemed offensive.
COSTELLO: Wow.
BARRETT: So he was hiding images of living things, things with souls, humans and animals, which is prohibited by the Koran. He was hiding them with water color. And he was running this secret painting-saving factory right under the Taliban's nose for several years.
COSTELLO: So in first place, he fools the Taliban because they have no idea he's this famous painter. And what would have happened to him if they had discovered him?
BARRETT: He would have been executed. The Taliban would have been absolutely merciless with him.
COSTELLO: Let's talk about this giant Buddha statues, because this is the image people remember of them blowing up. And there might be a silver lining in here. Tell us about it.
BARRETT: Well, the destruction and the bombing of the Buddhas is one of the biggest tragedies of our young century. However, what the Taliban didn't know is that at the foot of the giant Buddhas may be a 1,000-foot Buddha, called the Reclining Buddha of Bamian. It's 1,000 feet long. It's as long as the Eiffel Tower. It may be in a monastery underground virtually at the foot of those two giants.
COSTELLO: So, their explosives may not have gotten all of the Buddhas, right?
BARRETT: That's -- we hope so.
COSTELLO: We hope so. We hope so.
A fascinating documentary. Thank you for joining AMERICAN MORNING this morning. James Barrett.
BARRETT: Thank you.
COSTELLO: And again, the documentary, "Lost Treasures of Afghanistan," premieres tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on PBS -- Bill. HEMMER: Carol, 11 minutes before the hour now. Fast food chains coming a long way with their healthy choice menus. Burger King's doing an about-face though. The most recent addition is a doozy. Check it out next here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. You if you haven't had breakfast yet today, Andy's here to tell us about some new treats you could try. Or maybe not. That and a check of Wall Street, what's happening. First, you want to do stocks?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" COLUMNIST: Yeah, we're going to do that first. It's all very appetizing this morning. Let's check out the big board. Stocks trading down at this hour -- 17 on the big board. One piece of news here: It appears that MCI has agreed to be purchased by Verizon. Verizon still not commenting on that. Those are reports that are just crossing the wire right now. AIG is up a little bit this morning.
Now, breakfast. You may have heard about this. Just out, Burger King's new enormous omelet sandwich. This is something else here. Let's do the vitals: 730 calories; 47 grams of fat in the house. And there it is. It has got everything. It's got everything a person could need. It's got two eggs. It's got a sausage patty, three strips of bacon, cheese. And when we picked one of these things up over at Burger King, they asked us if we wanted hash browns with it. No thanks. Really no need.
HEMMER: It's the size of your shoe.
SERWER: It is sort of the size of my shoe, isn't it? That's really -- and now, as if that weren't enough, let's move on to liquid cereal. I discovered this. A company called Brain Twist. And this stuff -- this is a liquid cereal that's kind of like Froot Loops. It's not actually licensed. It's a very appetizing color.
COSTELLO: It looks like Pepto-Bismol.
SERWER: Here we go. Carol, quiet. This one here is a liquid apple kind of thing, like Apple Jacks.
HEMMER: Which one you want, Carol?
SERWER: Carol and Bill, we got pink and green. Let's check this out. Go! Come on go.
COSTELLO: You can have the pink one.
SERWER: You know, Jack doesn't do this, so --
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No.
SERWER: Because he's smart. That's why he doesn't do it.
HEMMER: Who makes this? SERWER: A company called Brain Twist. What do you think? Liquid Froot Loops. Fat-free milk. What do you think?
HEMMER: "A" for average.
SERWER: What do you think? Just a...
CAFFERTY: You look like a 3-year-old being forced to take cough syrup.
SERWER: Come on, Carol. What do you think? Just a little Red Bull and vodka, and you're ready to go in there.
COSTELLO: I think vodka would make it much better.
SERWER: And this one is chocolate, and this one is liquid peanut butter cereal.
HEMMER: Wow. Is there nutritional value in this, or do we care?
SERWER: I'm not sure.
COSTELLO: Let's see how much sugar's in this stuff. Let's see, total fat 2 grams. That's not bad.
SERWER: It would be a nice accompaniment to the enormous omelet sandwich.
HEMMER: Total carbs, 32 grams. You're done.
COSTELLO: Sugars, 21 grams.
SERWER: The smartest person here is Jack Cafferty who has not gotten near --
HEMMER: He doesn't try any of this stuff.
CAFFERTY: Is that a lot, 21 grams? I don't know.
COSTELLO: That's a lot, Jack.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
CAFFERTY: You didn't like the taste of it?
COSTELLO: No. It tastes like medicine.
SERWER: Looks like it, too.
COSTELLO: Yeah.
CAFFERTY: We're going to talk about sex offenders now, because that's -- it's only five minutes to 10:00, and we've got to fill up the time in this here program.
The "Question of the Day" is, what should be done to keep track of sex offenders -- the question being triggered by the arrest of this guy Couey in Florida, where there are 1,800 missing sex offenders. This guy had 26 arrests spanning almost 30 years. He confessed to kidnapping and murdering little Jessica Lunsford. So what do you do about keeping track of these people, is the question.
Tom in New Jersey writes, "Sex offenders keep looking to take their crimes to the next level. Releasing these people ups the ante, giving them the chance to push that adrenaline level higher."
Bill in Canada writes, "what about the three strikes law? Is it still in effect? And if so, is it just California. This would sure end a pervert being arrested 26 times, wouldn't it?"
Yes, the three strikes law is in California, and the -- I think it's the only state that has it at this point.
Donna writes this from Virginia: "My husband is a registered sex offender. He served his time. Spent two years in specialized counseling. All our friends, many of our neighbors know about it. He's a good man. And we've lived peacefully in our rural community for 10 years. I fear that because of the recent horrible events involving sex offenders that our lives could easily be destroyed."
HEMMER: Heck of a topic, and strong reaction. Jack, thanks for that.
We're awaiting on Jesse Jackson outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. Also, we're waiting on the president too. He is scheduled to make remarks from the White House Rose Garden. We'll have it live for you, 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. We're back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: We've got to run. Busy Tuesday here. See you again tomorrow on Wednesday. Down to Atlanta. Here's Daryn and Rick now. Good morning, guys.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 29, 2005 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. 9:30 here in New York and good morning. Nice to you have with us today. Soledad's on vacation this week.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I am filling in. I'm Carol Costello. Back to the Michael Jackson trial, and accusations he abused other boys. In a minute we'll hear actual tapes from 1993 in which one of the accusers speaks frankly to a psychiatrist about Jackson and what happened to him. He was a boy then, grown up now. We will talk to his uncle.
HEMMER: Also this hour, the lost treasures of Afghanistan. An amazing story of what it took to save them from the Taliban finally coming to light. We'll talk to a producer with National Geographic Television about what really happened there. So we'll get to it.
COSTELLO: Yes, we will. It's a fascinating story, too. Let's get to the other headlines of the day. Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Carol and Bill. Good morning again, everyone. Here are some of those stories "Now in the News."
Supporters of Terri Schiavo's parents holding a vigil this hour. The Schindlers arriving at the Florida hospice just a short time ago. Schiavo's father said she is weak and emaciated. It has been more than 11 days since she has had food or water. The Reverend Jesse Jackson among those taking part in the vigil today. He is visiting at the Schindler's invitation.
COSTELLO: Officials in Hong Kong are reporting a strong aftershock following the earthquake off of Indonesia's western coast. Humanitarian groups are rushing medical supplies and healthcare workers to the area. Indonesian government officials say more than 300 people were killed in the 8.7 quake. That number, though, expected to rise. But officials say the disaster is not as bad as first anticipated.
New details expected shortly about U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and his connection to the oil-for-food program in Iraq. The report is expected to sharply criticize the secretary-general's oversight of the $64 billion humanitarian aid program, the largest in U.N. history. But the panel is expected to clear him of conflict of interest. The committee's 70-page report is due out later today.
And catch up on your winks. Yep, that's right. That's the advice from the National Sleep Foundation. Most Americans average just under seven hours a night, when some experts say we should be getting as many as nine hours a night. But lack of sleep can cause problems in health, on the road, in the workplace and in your personal life. And Bill, one tip to try and sleep more every night? No caffeine after 2:00 p.m.
HEMMER: I like that.
WALLACE: Yes.
HEMMER: Bring it back in the morning, though, right, Kelly? Because we can't survive without it.
WALLACE: That's right. We need it all day long.
HEMMER: Thank you, Kelly.
WALLACE: Sure.
HEMMER: A key setback for Michael Jackson now. The judge in that case deciding to allow the prosecution to present evidence of previous molestation allegations. Raymond Chandler's nephew was 13 years old when he accused Jackson of molesting him. That case was settled out of court and Jackson has always maintained his innocence.
Chandler's also the author of "All That Glitters: The Crime and the Cover-Up," with the story of what he says happened to his nephew. Raymond Chandler is my guest now here in New York. Good morning.
RAYMOND CHANDLER, AUTHOR, "ALL THAT GLITTERS": Good morning.
HEMMER: What do you think of the judge's ruling from yesterday?
CHANDLER: I was very pleased with it. I think it was the right thing to do, especially under California law, which, you know...
HEMMER: Which changed 10 years ago, back in 1995.
CHANDLER: Changed in 1995, yes.
HEMMER: Now, the boy's mother will testify, the mother of your nephew, essentially.
CHANDLER: Correct.
HEMMER: Do you have any indication what she might say?
CHANDLER: Yes, I do. She's going to be able to place her son in a bedroom alone at night with Michael Jackson for conservatively, 50 to 60 nights, in multiple locations around the world, which is going to refute Jackson's claim that these are just sort of impromptu sleepovers where a kid just comes in. A sleepover does not last for two months.
HEMMER: She's testifying on behalf of her own son. But where is she getting this information? I'm assuming directly from her son. Is that right?
CHANDLER: No, directly from her own eyes. She was there when the boy and Michael went into the bedroom every night and came out every morning and went behind closed doors.
HEMMER: You've been estranged from your nephew for quite some time, right? And your brother as well.
CHANDLER: Right, that's true.
HEMMER: Without getting into that aspect of your family relationship, why isn't your nephew testifying?
CHANDLER: I believe that his reason is because he's just sick and tired of being the Michael Jackson boy. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him. Personally, I must say I don't agree with it. But I understand it. You know, he's had to move three times in the past ten years because every time Jackson comes up in the news, the media finds out where my nephew lives, they camp out on his doorstep. I think he's just sick of it.
HEMMER: How old is he?
CHANDLER: Twenty-five.
HEMMER: And he lives where?
CHANDLER: He lives in the New York area.
HEMMER: All right. Is he in this country now?
CHANDLER: To my knowledge, no.
HEMMER: And he left the country for what reason?
CHANDLER: I think just to get away from it. And, you know, I don't think it was particularly because of the trial, but to get away from the media, to not be found by the media.
HEMMER: We have two bits of sound here that we want to play here. This is part of an interview that a psychiatrist conducted with your nephew, asking him about the charges. Listen here as we watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel that you could have somehow prevented all this stuff with Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because originally -- remember I told you there were a couple things he did and I said don't do that? It worked those times, so maybe I could have done it for all of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you could have been more forceful, is that what you're saying?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why weren't you?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: It was hard to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because he's an adult. He's overwhelming. He's famous. He's powerful.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HEMMER: The end there, he's an adult, he's overwhelming, he's famous, he's powerful. How old was your nephew when that interview was done?
CHANDLER: Thirteen.
HEMMER: Thirteen years young. What do you take out of that when you hear it?
CHANDLER: Well, putting that together with everything else that my nephew said and all the other evidence that was collected, what you see you here -- it was part of the manipulation. Michael used his fame, the trust children had in him, his reputation of being a child advocate, so to speak, to gain the trust of these children. And he constantly used it. When the children would balk, he would, you know, lay a guilt trip on them. If you loved me -- he would tell my nephew -- he would name other boys who did sexual acts with him, and tell my nephew, if you loved me as much as they did, you would do these things, too.
HEMMER: We come back to the persistent question as to why in this case your nephew did not leave. Why would he can go back to Neverland and hang out with Michael Jackson? That was asked also by the psychiatrist. Listen again.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you voluntarily went back there. You could have said, I don't want to go to Neverland again, no?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So why did you go back?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Because regardless of the fact that I went to Neverland, he would be with me, no matter what. He was always with me. I couldn't just say I want to hang out with you today, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: It's not that easy. He would cry and say, you don't love me anymore. It would be like, a whole deal, and you know, it was hard.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HEMMER: This case was settled out of court for millions. Some say $20 million, perhaps more. Why settle? Why not press it on the criminal side?
CHANDLER: Well, you've got to go back to the timeline. At the time the civil suit was settled -- this was a civil case -- there were no charges filed. It wasn't a choice between settling a civil case and testifying in a criminal. The criminal allegations -- the district attorney didn't approach him until five months later and say OK, we're ready to press charges now. And their answer at the time, by the way, that's one of the biggest myths that was perpetuated for 12 years, that they refused to testify in a criminal case.
HEMMER: I mentioned you'd been estranged for several years from your nephew. You've written a book. What's your motivation for coming onto programs like this and talking this way?
CHANDLER: Right. There's no money in this to me. Any profit that comes out of this is going to child abuse. I've been saying that even before I -- when I said I'm thinking about it. I've been saying that for years. The motive is that the last part of my book, if people read it, they'll see it's devoted to the actual major subject of child abuse.
Take away the fame and the fortune, and this is no different than any other child abuse case, any other pedophile case. To the degree that he's able to do this because of his fame, it's different, but it's the same in kind. And people need to understand how this works. This is a dark subject. People do not want to talk about it. Yet the numbers of people affected by child abuse is amazing. And yet, people don't want to talk about it.
HEMMER: Would you like to make up with your brother?
CHANDLER: Oh, yes, I'm sure one day we will.
HEMMER: "All That Glitters" is the name of the book. Raymond Chandler, thanks for your time.
CHANDLER: Thank you very much. Here's Carol.
COSTELLO: It's been a surprising turnaround in U.S.-run prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barbara Starr has the story live from the Pentagon. Good morning, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, you know, it was the only issue Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ever considered resigning over, the prison abuse scandal in Iraq. Things may be getting better, but some chilling details are still emerging about past cases.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) STARR (voice-over): Even as some U.S. troops have faced criminal charges of prisoner abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq, including the Abu Ghraib scandal that stunned the world, CNN has learned the number of reported cases has dropped dramatically. The latest statistics obtained by CNN show that from April 2004 through the end of the year, abuse reports recorded by the Army dropped more than 70 percent. Why? Officials credit better training for troops, improved prison conditions and clear interrogation procedures.
At the same time, Army numbers show 68 detainees have died in Army custody since 2002 in Afghanistan and Iraq, and 24 of those cases are confirmed or suspected homicides. Overall, 308 abuse cases were reported since 2002, with 107 still under investigation.
Some examples -- new details are emerging in the case of a U.S. soldier charged with beating a detainee to death at Bagram Air Base in 2002. Military investigators say the Afghan had his hands chained to a ceiling and then was beaten for days, the result eventually destroying his leg muscle tissue with repeated, unlawful knee strikes.
And at the San Diego Naval Base, a court-martial is planned this spring for a Navy SEAL charged with abusing this prisoner in Iraq in 2003. A suspect in a bombing attack, Manadel al Tumadi (ph), died a few hours after being turned over to the CIA at Abu Ghraib.
On Capitol Hill, some lawmakers are asking questions.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: So there's been no assessment of accountability of any senior officials, either within or outside of the Department of Defense for policies that may have contributed to abuses of prisoners.
STARR: The Pentagon insists multiple investigations have found no overall problem.
VICE ADM. ALBERT CHURCH: Clearly there was no policy, written or otherwise, at any level that directed or condoned torture or abuse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Still, Carol, the critics do believe the problem is more widespread than the Defense Department would like to publicly acknowledge. And, of course, more than 100 cases of reported abuse remain under investigation.
Carol.
COSTELLO: Barbara Starr, live at the Pentagon this morning. Thank you.
Let's get a check of the weather, because things are improving. Chad promises. It's up to you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Thank you, Chad, for that East Coast weather forecast. I appreciated it.
Hey, you know, there were Easter festivities Monday at the White House. Most of them were rained out, but David Letterman had a few jokes about them. Couldn't resist.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID LETTERMAN, LATE SHOW HOST: Today, down in Washington, they had the annual big Easter Egg Hunt out on the White House lawn. The kids found 800 eggs and 200 John Kerry ballots from Ohio. I did not know that. But at the White House Easter Egg Hunt, no eggs were actually found, but President Bush continues to claim that they're there. Oh, no, they're there.
COSTELLO: That was an easy one, wasn't it? It was good, though. It made me laugh.
Forget healthy. One fast food chain bucks the trend with a massive diet buster. This thing's disgusting. Andy's "Minding Your Business" this morning.
HEMMER: Also, hidden treasures uncovered in Afghanistan. The daring ways in which some of the most beautiful art in the world has been saved from destruction. That's next after a break on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: One of the lasting horrors of the Taliban in Afghanistan is the destruction of priceless and ancient works of art. The demolition of the giant Buddha statues in 2001, you remember that. It shocked the world. But many of Afghanistan's most magnificent treasures were saved, safely stored away at great personal risk. Their discovery is the subject of a documentary airing on PBS tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern Time "Lost Treasures of Afghanistan." The show's producer is James Barrett. Welcome, James.
JAMES BARRETT, DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER: Thanks.
COSTELLO: So, what sparked you to do this documentary?
BARRETT: Well, National Geographic Missions was doing work in Afghanistan with Dr. Fred Hebert, and they were about to unveil the Bactrian Horde, which they thought had been lost for 20 years.
COSTELLO: Of course, what is the Bactrian Horde?
BARRETT: Okay. The Bactrian Horde is 20,000 separate gold burial objects from the 1st century. It's the biggest gold collection from the ancient world. It's more gold than the tomb of King Tut.
COSTELLO: Wow. So when you discovered that was there, you were intrigued at how they could hide all of this stuff away from the Taliban in the first place?
BARRETT: Exactly. The Taliban would have melted it down. They would have given it to Osama bin Laden as a gift. But during the Taliban era, there was a resistance going on, much like the French Resistance during World War II, where artists and art lovers and museum directors were hiding the cultural heritage of Afghanistan from the Taliban.
COSTELLO: So they knew the Taliban was coming, and they went to -- it was great personal risk they took to save these things. So they came up with ingenious ways of saving them, like this very famous painter of Afghanistan.
BARRETT: Yes. Dr. Yousef Asefi, when he heard that the Taliban was slashing paintings in the presidential palace, he volunteered for a job restoring paintings in the national gallery. So he showed up to restore paintings, but what he really began doing was painting over in water color the elements the Taliban deemed offensive.
COSTELLO: Wow.
BARRETT: So he was hiding images of living things, things with souls, humans and animals, which is prohibited by the Koran. He was hiding them with water color. And he was running this secret painting-saving factory right under the Taliban's nose for several years.
COSTELLO: So in first place, he fools the Taliban because they have no idea he's this famous painter. And what would have happened to him if they had discovered him?
BARRETT: He would have been executed. The Taliban would have been absolutely merciless with him.
COSTELLO: Let's talk about this giant Buddha statues, because this is the image people remember of them blowing up. And there might be a silver lining in here. Tell us about it.
BARRETT: Well, the destruction and the bombing of the Buddhas is one of the biggest tragedies of our young century. However, what the Taliban didn't know is that at the foot of the giant Buddhas may be a 1,000-foot Buddha, called the Reclining Buddha of Bamian. It's 1,000 feet long. It's as long as the Eiffel Tower. It may be in a monastery underground virtually at the foot of those two giants.
COSTELLO: So, their explosives may not have gotten all of the Buddhas, right?
BARRETT: That's -- we hope so.
COSTELLO: We hope so. We hope so.
A fascinating documentary. Thank you for joining AMERICAN MORNING this morning. James Barrett.
BARRETT: Thank you.
COSTELLO: And again, the documentary, "Lost Treasures of Afghanistan," premieres tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on PBS -- Bill. HEMMER: Carol, 11 minutes before the hour now. Fast food chains coming a long way with their healthy choice menus. Burger King's doing an about-face though. The most recent addition is a doozy. Check it out next here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. You if you haven't had breakfast yet today, Andy's here to tell us about some new treats you could try. Or maybe not. That and a check of Wall Street, what's happening. First, you want to do stocks?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" COLUMNIST: Yeah, we're going to do that first. It's all very appetizing this morning. Let's check out the big board. Stocks trading down at this hour -- 17 on the big board. One piece of news here: It appears that MCI has agreed to be purchased by Verizon. Verizon still not commenting on that. Those are reports that are just crossing the wire right now. AIG is up a little bit this morning.
Now, breakfast. You may have heard about this. Just out, Burger King's new enormous omelet sandwich. This is something else here. Let's do the vitals: 730 calories; 47 grams of fat in the house. And there it is. It has got everything. It's got everything a person could need. It's got two eggs. It's got a sausage patty, three strips of bacon, cheese. And when we picked one of these things up over at Burger King, they asked us if we wanted hash browns with it. No thanks. Really no need.
HEMMER: It's the size of your shoe.
SERWER: It is sort of the size of my shoe, isn't it? That's really -- and now, as if that weren't enough, let's move on to liquid cereal. I discovered this. A company called Brain Twist. And this stuff -- this is a liquid cereal that's kind of like Froot Loops. It's not actually licensed. It's a very appetizing color.
COSTELLO: It looks like Pepto-Bismol.
SERWER: Here we go. Carol, quiet. This one here is a liquid apple kind of thing, like Apple Jacks.
HEMMER: Which one you want, Carol?
SERWER: Carol and Bill, we got pink and green. Let's check this out. Go! Come on go.
COSTELLO: You can have the pink one.
SERWER: You know, Jack doesn't do this, so --
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No.
SERWER: Because he's smart. That's why he doesn't do it.
HEMMER: Who makes this? SERWER: A company called Brain Twist. What do you think? Liquid Froot Loops. Fat-free milk. What do you think?
HEMMER: "A" for average.
SERWER: What do you think? Just a...
CAFFERTY: You look like a 3-year-old being forced to take cough syrup.
SERWER: Come on, Carol. What do you think? Just a little Red Bull and vodka, and you're ready to go in there.
COSTELLO: I think vodka would make it much better.
SERWER: And this one is chocolate, and this one is liquid peanut butter cereal.
HEMMER: Wow. Is there nutritional value in this, or do we care?
SERWER: I'm not sure.
COSTELLO: Let's see how much sugar's in this stuff. Let's see, total fat 2 grams. That's not bad.
SERWER: It would be a nice accompaniment to the enormous omelet sandwich.
HEMMER: Total carbs, 32 grams. You're done.
COSTELLO: Sugars, 21 grams.
SERWER: The smartest person here is Jack Cafferty who has not gotten near --
HEMMER: He doesn't try any of this stuff.
CAFFERTY: Is that a lot, 21 grams? I don't know.
COSTELLO: That's a lot, Jack.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
CAFFERTY: You didn't like the taste of it?
COSTELLO: No. It tastes like medicine.
SERWER: Looks like it, too.
COSTELLO: Yeah.
CAFFERTY: We're going to talk about sex offenders now, because that's -- it's only five minutes to 10:00, and we've got to fill up the time in this here program.
The "Question of the Day" is, what should be done to keep track of sex offenders -- the question being triggered by the arrest of this guy Couey in Florida, where there are 1,800 missing sex offenders. This guy had 26 arrests spanning almost 30 years. He confessed to kidnapping and murdering little Jessica Lunsford. So what do you do about keeping track of these people, is the question.
Tom in New Jersey writes, "Sex offenders keep looking to take their crimes to the next level. Releasing these people ups the ante, giving them the chance to push that adrenaline level higher."
Bill in Canada writes, "what about the three strikes law? Is it still in effect? And if so, is it just California. This would sure end a pervert being arrested 26 times, wouldn't it?"
Yes, the three strikes law is in California, and the -- I think it's the only state that has it at this point.
Donna writes this from Virginia: "My husband is a registered sex offender. He served his time. Spent two years in specialized counseling. All our friends, many of our neighbors know about it. He's a good man. And we've lived peacefully in our rural community for 10 years. I fear that because of the recent horrible events involving sex offenders that our lives could easily be destroyed."
HEMMER: Heck of a topic, and strong reaction. Jack, thanks for that.
We're awaiting on Jesse Jackson outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. Also, we're waiting on the president too. He is scheduled to make remarks from the White House Rose Garden. We'll have it live for you, 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. We're back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: We've got to run. Busy Tuesday here. See you again tomorrow on Wednesday. Down to Atlanta. Here's Daryn and Rick now. Good morning, guys.
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