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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S. Iraq Prewar Intelligence "Dead Wrong"; Terri Schiavo Dies; Pope John Paul II's Health Worsens

Aired March 31, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're watching what's happening with the pope. He's taken a serious turn for the worse. CNN has learned the pontiff has been given his last rites. We welcome our viewers watching us now from around the world on CNN and CNN International.
We begin with the news from the Vatican. Let's go straight to our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci. What do we know exactly, Alessio?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Wolf. What we do know from Vatican officials is that, of course, the situation is serious as a matter of fact. As you mentioned and Judy mentioned, the pope was given his last rites, which is also known as an extreme unction, if you want, which is a blessing that is given in case of grave illnesses.

Now, one should be cautious and point out this kind of blessing is given while the situation is extremely serious, of course, but it does not mean that the pope is dying at this time, but simply the situation is extremely serious.

This is not the first time the pope was given his last rites. Back in 1981, when he was shot, as he fell back into the hands of his aide, Archbishop Stanislav Dziwisz, in the Pope-mobile at the Vatican in St. Peter's Square, the Vatican, at that time too, Archbishop Dziwisz gave the pope his last rites. So it is a rite, if you want, that is performed at a time of grave concern and grave illness.

Now, what we do know also, just to recap what Vatican officials and the Vatican press office is telling us is that the pope has been diagnosed with a urinary infection to his tract and that the pope has a high fever at this time and that he's being treated with antibiotics.

We also know from officials and from sources at the Gemelli Hospital, where the pope has been treated several times in the past, including twice -- admitted twice in February, that at this time, there are no provisions for the pope to return to that hospital. That, of course, could be read in two ways -- either that the situation is so desperate, that there is no way that the pope is going go back to the hospital, or that perhaps the situation is under control. But frankly speaking, given what we're hearing from Vatican officials at this time, the situation surrounding the health of Pope John Paul II is serious.

Wolf, back to you. BLITZER: Alessio, are we expecting additional statements tonight from spokesmen at the Vatican?

VINCI: Honestly, I don't think so, unless the situation goes even, you know, worse than now. We have heard from a Vatican spokesman, who was giving us the information that the pope indeed has been diagnosed with that urinary infection, that he has fever, and frankly speaking, had been myself quite surprised by the amount of information that the Vatican has issued in the last 24 hours. Yesterday, the Vatican admitting that the pope was being fed through a nasal tube. This tonight, the Vatican saying that the pope has a high fever and now has been diagnosed with this urinary tract infection.

So this is a lot of information by Vatican standards, and as far as official information coming out from the Vatican press office, unless the situation worsens, I don't think we're going to hear more. We're going to hear more from the Vatican official with whom we spoke on condition of anonymity of course, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we're showing, Alessio, our viewers around the world, on the right side of the screen, that's a dark scene there. This is the apartment, the residence of Pope John Paul II. We see no lights that are on in this complex. I take it there's been no decision to move His Holiness from there, from the Vatican back to the hospital?

VINCI: That is correct. And one of the reasons why the lights may be switched off is either that the pope is now sleeping and that his situation is under control, or most probably that the pope has been moved into an area of the Apostolic Palace where he can be given greater health care.

We do know that the Vatican apartment in which the pope has been spending most of his time now is, unless he's at the hospital of course, is equipped with very modern medical equipment that can take care of emergency situations, such as this one, for example, so it is possible that the pope may be in a different room other than his study or bedroom. But we simply don't know that.

BLITZER: Alessio, I'm going to have you stand by, and we'll come back as we get some more information. But let's get some additional information from here in Washington. Joining us is Father David O'Connell. He's the president of The Catholic University here in Washington. Father O'Connell, thank you very much for joining us.

What does it mean exactly that the pope has been administered -- given his last rites. Because in the vernacular, we almost always assume that it's over almost.

FATHER DAVID O'CONNELL, PRESIDENT, THE CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: The term "last rites" is a terms that's -- is an old term and has been replaced by the term "the Sacrament of the Sick." In the old days, the sacrament was reserved for the very final moments of a person's life. Now, the church's theology, sacramental theology has changed to look at the sacrament as a sacrament of healing and a sacrament of strength. But it is still called popularly in the vernacular "the last rites of the church."

BLITZER: For other priests to do this to Pope John Paul II right now, to administer the Sacrament of the Sick, to you as a priest, what does that mean?

O'CONNELL: To me, if I were in that position, it would be an extraordinary humbling experience to be ministering to the chief shepherd of the church of the universal Catholic Church throughout the world. This is something, you know, the deterioration of his condition, the great attention that's being given this, is something that we have anticipated. He's 84-year-old. He has Parkinson's disease. He has been debilitated in recent weeks. He's been suffering with various -- with a number of various infections. So it's something that we've all been watching and waiting for and praying for His Holiness that he be comfortable in these, his last days.

BLITZER: But presumably his doctors would make a decision and then go to the priests, the cardinals and other and say, this might be a good time to do this.

O'CONNELL: His doctors or immediate staff, Archbishop Dziwisz someone who is attending to him in the Vatican household.

BLITZER: So basically we're bracing, God forbid, for the worst right now?

O'CONNELL: I think so. I think so.

BLITZER: How significant will this immediate transfer or transition be for the Roman Catholic Church?

O'CONNELL: Oh, I think it will be tremendously significant. Let's face it, for 50 percent of the world, this is the only pope that they've ever known. He's been in office for 26 years. He's made incredible changes in the church. His ministry has been one that has emphasized fidelity to church teaching, the spirit of reform of the Vatican Council, and also, it's a papacy that's had its eye on the third millennium, the future. He has been, as George Wiegel's biography calls him, "a witness to hope, a hope in the future."

He has a certain -- and I've heard it said many time, a "rock star quality." This is a pope who has attracted the young people, has created "Youth Days," a pope who's really affected people deeply. And he has been seen by more people than any other human being in the history of the world. That's a very, very significant thing. So whoever follows him in the Chair of Peter is going to have a tough act to follow.

BLITZER: I know that you at The Catholic University here in Washington here have a special relationship with Pope John Paul II. I've seen it. I've been there. I covered his visit to the United States back in the '90s. Talk a little bit about Pope John Paul II and Catholics in America?

O'CONNELL: Well, I think this is -- as we know, just from watching in recent weeks, there's a great deal of love and a great deal of admiration and affection for the pope. It's not to say that the pope hasn't been controversial. Not to say that the pope hasn't been challenging to contemporary culture. I think he sees himself as countercultural pope whose job, whose mission, whose ministry it was to challenge our contemporary society with the traditional values of the Catholic Church and its teachings.

At Catholic University, Pope John Paul was a visiting professor before he became pope, and he's well-known to us. Catholic University is a pontifical university. It is the papal university in the United States. And so there is, as you say, that special relationship with him.

BLITZER: How do they announce at the Vatican that the pope is dead? How do they go about that process and inform Catholics around the world?

O'CONNELL: Well, there's a person who holds the position of Camerlengo, it's called, the Papal Chamberlain. And the pope's staff is to summon that person, who is to come in, and the customary way that this has been done in the past is that there was a hammer, and the pope was tapped three times on the head, calling out his baptismal name. And when he didn't respond, the announcement was made that he was dead. And then it was passed to his vicar in Rome, and then the announcement was made publicly.

I'm not sure whether that's done now or not.

BLITZER: Is there a specific person who has to make the announcement publicly?

O'CONNELL: I think traditionally, it is either the vicar of Rome, who in this case would be Cardinal Ruini, who serves that capacity in the Vatican, or it would be the dean of the College of Cardinals, one or the other.

BLITZER: Father O'Connell, I'm going to have you stand by for a moment. Our Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, is joining us now from Rome. What have you learned, Delia?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have no further news other than what we've been reporting, Wolf, which is that the pope is running this high fever and has been administered extreme unction or last rites. And I don't think that there will be much more coming out of the Vatican. We've already had quite a bit of information by Vatican standards tonight.

So there is great concern here for the pope's health, but let's also remember that this is the great comeback pope, so we don't want to jump ahead of ourselves just yet.

BLITZER: In the statements that you've received, Delia, from the Vatican, from the spokesmen, from the cardinals surrounding Pope John Paul II, has it been strictly involving his medical condition -- the urinary tract infection -- or have the statements gone beyond that? GALLAGHER: No, absolutely They are very reserved sort of statements, Wolf. They refer only to his medical situation, and even then they're very general, they don't go into too much detail. The most detail we got was yesterday talking about some of the difficulties he was having with nutrition. So really we've gotten what we consider quite a lot of information, but still very, very general. And we've had to deal a lot with just looking at the pope, seeing how he is -- we saw him yesterday, on Wednesday, from his window. And everybody could see he's having great, great difficulty. So I think that putting those two things together, what the Vatican tells us and what we're able to see with our own eyes, we come to these conclusions. Wolf?

BLITZER: And just your thoughts on this decision to administer the last rites, or the Sacrament of the Sick to Pope John Paul II? What does that mean to you, Delia?

GALLAGHER: Well, again, it's not something which makes me raise my eyebrows too much, because it is a sacrament which is administered in situations of grave illness. So one has to consider that this is something which is almost pro forma for somebody who is in the situation the pope is in. So, again, it wouldn't make me necessarily think of an emergency situation, but it does point to the very serious situation that the pope is in.

BLITZER: Delia, stand by for a minute. I want to bring back Father David O'Connell, the president of Catholic University here in Washington. It's critically important for Catholics to be given these last rites -- the Sacrament of the Sick -- before they pass away, but explain to our viewers why.

O'CONNELL: Well, the church is a system of sacraments: there are seven sacraments that follow the individual baptized Christian through his life or her life. The Sacrament of Baptism brings you into the church. The Sacrament of the Eucharist feeds you, the Sacrament of Penance forgives you, the Sacrament of Matrimony joins you to someone, the Sacrament of Orders ordains you to the priesthood. And this is another sacrament that focuses on a period of life.

And the period of life is a period of distress, a period of pain, a period of suffering. And the intention behind the sacrament -- the purpose of the sacrament -- is really to give people encouragement, consolation, strength, healing, and grace. And so it is very important when a Catholic recognizes illness or when a Catholic is in bad shape to avail themselves of this special sacrament.

BLITZER: And if a Catholic dies suddenly -- on the battlefield or just a heart attack -- and there's no last rites Sacrament of the Sick that are administered, what, if anything, does that mean for that Catholic?

O'CONNELL: Of course, you know, we believe in the providence of God and the goodness of God, and that God is there to greet us, to call us home. The sacrament is, as I say, a sacrament of healing. In situations like those you describe -- those are extraordinary circumstances, extraordinary situations where a person has no control, doesn't have the ability to avail themselves of a priest in his last hours -- but God is good and God is full of love and grace and welcomes us home.

BLITZER: He would forgive, certainly, for that as well. You see on the right of the screen, the picture of the apartment, the complex, the residence of Pope John Paul II. I don't know if you've been there, Father O'Connell -- I'm sure you've been to the Vatican -- but if you have, tell our viewers what it's like inside.

O'CONNELL: It's an extraordinary -- it has qualities of the ancient world -- of course, the artwork, the statuary, just the structure itself. It's interesting, my vice president, Frank Persico, just came back from Rome today. He was in the St. Peter's Square when the pope appeared at the window on Wednesday. And I said to him -- I said, What did it feel like? And he says it was a tremendous, electric feeling in the crowd. There was such joy, such exultation, to see the Holy Father.

I had the real privilege of celebrating mass in the pope's private chapel with him and about eight other priests a few years ago, and it's extraordinary. The last time I was with the pope, I was with the board of Catholic U. a few years ago. When the pope appeared, of course, he was much older than the time I had seen him before. My reaction was to break down and cry. I was just so moved by the presence of this man and what he means to us in the church, as the Vicar of Christ, as really the chief shepherd of the world, the leader of the faithful.

And it's not just the Catholic faithful, but all who believe in God and all who have goodwill. This is a man who has made a tremendous impact on the history of our world and of course the history of the church.

BLITZER: And as gravely ill as he is right now, Father O'Connell, would there be any thought at all to handing over responsibilities to someone else even while he's alive?

O'CONNELL: Well, I'm sure people are thinking about that, but I don't think it will happen.

BLITZER: Because he is the Father of the Catholic Church?

O'CONNELL: He is our Father, and his intention has been clear all along, that he was not intending -- did not intend -- to step down.

BLITZER: Just like a father is not going to resign from being a father of children, this pope is not going to resign from being the Father of the Catholic Church.

O'CONNELL: It's very interesting -- he used that exact analogy once in a talk.

BLITZER: I'm going to have you stand by, Father O'Connell. You've been very helpful to us, but please stand by. Dr. Stewart Factor is joining us on the phone now. He's a professor of neurology at Emory University in Atlanta. Dr. Factor, talk a little bit about his Parkinson's disease, that we all know about -- how this may be affecting his current health problems.

DR. STEWART FACTOR, EMORY UNIVERSITY: People with Parkinson's disease are very prone to getting urinary tract infections in general. And people with Parkinson's disease, when they get urinary tract infections, can have much more significant symptoms than a healthy person would. So a person of his age with Parkinson's disease who gets a urinary tract infection could certainly actually become unresponsive, and that may be the situation that's occurred with him now.

BLITZER: So if it were just a urinary tract infection and high fever for a man 84 years old, it would be one thing, but it's very, very different -- is that right, Dr. Factor, for someone with advanced Parkinson's?

FACTOR: Yes. People with Parkinson's disease have more trouble with infections and more trouble responding to infections. Very often their Parkinson's gets worse, and in addition they can develop this unresponsiveness. If he develops an infection in his blood -- what we call a urosepsis -- then that can be even more serious and maybe less responsive to the antibiotics.

BLITZER: He's being treated with a high dose of antibiotics, we're told by the Vatican. Is that likely to have an impact, given his Parkinson's?

FACTOR: It's possible, but being that he's had Parkinson's disease plus all these other pulmonary problems in recent weeks, his immune system may not be able to respond as well as someone who is otherwise healthy.

BLITZER: Dr. Factor, I want to bring in our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our CNN medical correspondent -- he's a neurosurgeon himself.

What's going through your mind, Sanjay, as you hear of the pontiff's health problems right now?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we've been talking about this for some time -- February 1 was when he was admitted to the hospital the first time, there for ten days, and just two weeks after that, the tracheotomy, and then we heard about the nasogastric Dobbhoff feeding tube yesterday. There's been a sequence of events, here, Wolf. I think any medical professional can start to see that obviously he may not have recovered ever fully from his first hospitalization back at the beginning of February.

All these other events are certainly concerning -- most concerning is if this urinary tract infection, which was diagnosed after he had a high fever, is more than isolated to just the urinary tract. If in fact it has gotten into the bloodstream any way, that could certainly would make him very lethargic, which may have prompted this reading of the Sacrament of the Sick to the pope. You know, these are all the things that are sort of going through the mind -- details are a bit sketchy. I'd like to know how high his fever is, I'd like to know if they're giving him IV antibiotics, I'd like to know if his body is mounting a fight against this infection. This is information that we're still trying to collect, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well maybe, Dr. Factor, you want to weigh in on that as well. You heard Sanjay Gupta; what do you think? I think we lost Dr. Stewart Factor, professor of neurology of Emory University in Washington (sic).

But Sanjay, you heard Dr. Factor say the Parkinson's is a really serious complicating factor for an 84-year-old man with this condition. What can you add about that?

GUPTA: It can be a vicious cycle, Wolf. On the one hand, people who have Parkinson's disease are more predisposed to infections just simply because of their immobility. When I first heard that the pope had developed a high fever, my first thought was that this was probably going to be a pneumonia, which I thought was the more likely scenario given his recent health conditions. But certainly a urinary tract infection, a high likelihood as well, when you hear about these high fevers.

But the vicious cycle part of it is that, once you have the infection, your Parkinson's disease also becomes worse -- the symptoms of Parkinson's, that rigidity, that tremor, harder to control now with an infection. Again, if this infection actually gets into the bloodstream -- this is something known as sepsis, that's the clinical term for it -- but basically it's a body-wide infection, and I think to anybody is concerning, especially someone of advanced age with pre- existing medical conditions like the pope, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let me bring Father O'Connell of the -- president of Catholic University. You were telling us about your vice president, who only today returned from the Vatican, saw his holiness in St. Peter's Square, on -- when is it on -- Sunday?

O'CONNELL: Wednesday. The last appearance.

BLITZER: On Wednesday. How emotional of a moment was that for him? Did he break down and cry?

O'CONNELL: He called me shortly after that, and he told me about it, and it really was an emotional experience for him. Of course, for many of us who have grown up seeing this man, elected pope, as really the youngest pope in this century, and the youngest pope since 1846, to watch this man who really is only -- was elected -- only a couple years older than I am now, grow old before our eyes and become, in a sense, almost a grandfather figure, for people -- to watch him suffer and to watch him as he's declined in health is as difficult as it would be to watch a parent in the same situation.

BLITZER: Is there a cardinal out there -- is there someone out there -- who is the front-runner, if you will, the likely next pope? Or is this open for a long-term discussion? O'CONNELL: You know, I'll be perfectly honest with you, cardinals don't talk about this. We have seven cardinals on our board of trustees. It's not a conversation that they have, it's certainly not a public conversation that they have, and I doubt if it's a private conversation. So serious does the church take this, that there's actually a sanction -- a canonical sanction -- if there's any kind of campaigning that goes on.

I really don't know that there is a front-runner, and we leave so much in terms of our faith and belief up to the Holy Spirit that at the time of the election, the Holy Spirit is going to manifest the will of God and who is the person to be chosen.

BLITZER: Remind our viewers, in the United States and around the world, Father O'Connell, why this pope, this Polish pope, became the pope?

O'CONNELL: Well, of course he's the first non-Italian pope since 1522, since Adrian IV. He was a man who was behind the scenes. He was a man who was representative of a society that was under oppression. He was a man who was very present at the second Vatican Council, but he's a person whose name was not a household word. He came to be known in this country through Cardinal Crowe of Philadelphia who he visited every year. And for those -- because of his academic background, he came known to us at Catholic University. But, to be honest with you, as a young seminarian, as a priest, I never heard his name mentioned.

BLITZER: It was a surprise, although he was very political during the solidarity movement in Poland and he developed a reputation for himself back in his homeland.

O'CONNELL: Absolutely. But, you know, as is often the case, or as has been the case, years ago, you know, we Americans tend to focus on our own country and don't tend to look at other parts of the world.

BLITZER: Let me bring back Delia Gallagher, our Vatican analyst in Rome.

Delia, I assume you've been looking into this issue of succession. You heard what Father O'Connell said, that cardinals are not even supposed to talk about this and we don't even know if they're talking about it privately. But what have you heard?

GALLAGHER: Well, let me tell you, it's very interesting, Wolf.

He's perfectly right, that the cardinals are not supposed to talk about it. Whether they think about it and talk about it privately, however, I think is another matter, and it's interesting that, just last week, the Polish cardinal, Cardinal Glemp, gave an interview to an Argentinian newspaper and said he thought that the papacy may return to an Italian. Now, he didn't name any names, but that's still a rather large indiscretion, given this unspoken rule -- unwritten rule -- that the cardinals don't speak about this matter.

So, I think sometimes we do get ideas of where the cardinals would like the church to go in the future. Of course, they don't come out and name names, but the press tends to push ahead and sort of suggest people, will it be an African pope? Will it be a South American pope? And so the cardinals might give you a small size response in terms of what they think -- where they think the future of the church should go, and there are still many European cardinals. I think one of the feelings over here is that it might stay with a European. But, again, this is a conjectural thing at the moment, especially because the pope is still with us, and so one doesn't want to jump ahead too far.

But, on the other hand, I think it's perfectly right to say the cardinals are considering this, especially because there may not be time for another consistory -- another creation of other cardinals, in which case the future pope will come from one of the men who is currently a cardinal.

BLITZER: And Sanjay Gupta, as critically ill as the pontiff is right now, the body works in mysterious ways, and there's no way of predicting how much longer Pope John Paul II might be able to sustain his health. He could come out of this and get back to work, I assume, although his situation by all accounts is gravely ill?

GALLAGHER: Based on data, you get a sense of -- someone of this age, with these sort of medical conditions already preexisting, who now has a urinary tract infection, you know, certainly Wolf, he could certainly recover from all of this, and get back to his daily activities, though I think any medical person around the world who is following the situation and learning about the pope's medical history, has to be somewhat concerned now about this.

Especially, things to be looking out for, any changes of blood pressure, for example, Wolf, that's one of the first indicators that this infection may have spread from just, beyond the urinary tract into the bloodstream itself. Heart rate going up, certainly advanced fever, or, if this infection just simply isn't responding to antibiotics. So, yes, a full recovery is possible, although very guarded at this point, Wolf.

BLITZER: Sanjay, what, if anything, should we read into the fact that he is still in his residence at the Vatican and has not been moved to a hospital?

GALLAGHER: Yes, that's a good question, Wolf. On the one hand, the Vatican has extraordinary medical facilities, really, for a place that is not being a hospital -- certainly they can administer IV antibiotics. They cannot do operations there, which is why he was taken to the hospital for that tracheotomy, remember, back on February 10. I don't know what make of it. On the one hand, you may say, he just may be too ill right now to even be transported; on the other hand they may be saying this is something treatable, and we think we can treat it at the Vatican. We're going to keep looking into that, Wolf. That's a good question.

BLITZER: All right, Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.

I want to thank Father David O'Connell from the Catholic University; he's been helping us better understand what's going on. Delia Gallagher in Rome, our Vatican analyst, and Alessio Vinci, our reporter. We'll of course get back to the Vatican as soon as there are additional developments, if there are additional developments, in the course of the next few hours.

We want to thank our international viewers for joining us. CNNi, CNN International's coverage, will resume after a short break with their regular programming. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In this country, Terri Schiavo died this morning, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed. Her death marks the end of an unprecedented legal battle that thrust end-of-life issues into the national spotlight, but the backstory of the bitter family feud that marked Schiavo's final years continues, and the fallout from the politicization of the case remains to be seen.

We have complete coverage for you, beginning with our national correspondent, Bob Franken. He's outside the hospice where Schiavo died in Pinellas Park, Florida -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's ironic. After the years of prolonged agony, the end came pretty quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Mary Schindler was in tears when she arrived at the hospice. Just minutes later, there was an announcement.

PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER FAMILY ADVISER: It is with great sadness that it's been reported to us that Terri Schiavo has passed away.

FRANKEN: More than 15 years after she suffered a heart attack and went into a what doctors describes as a vegetative state, nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed, Terri Schiavo was dead at the age of 41.

SUZANNE VITADAMO, SISTER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: She is finally at peace with God for eternity.

FRANKEN: Death came just hours after the Supreme Court rejected the Schindler family's final appeal to get her feeding tube reinserted. It was just the last skirmish in a long legal war between the Schindlers and Schiavo's husband, Michael, who said his wife would have wanted the tube removed.

The bitter family fight apparently continued until the very end. A Schindler family spokesman says that they were at their daughter's bedside until 10 minutes before she died. FATHER FRANK PAVONE, SCHINDLER FAMILY SUPPORTER: The Schindler family made it clear that they were willing to be in there with Michael at those last moments. They were willing to do that. Michael did not want that.

RANDALL TERRY, SPOKESMAN FOR PARENTS OF TERRI SCHIAVO: The family wanted to be there. And I think all of us believe that Terri wanted her family there. And so for them to have been escorted out of the room at that moment is absolutely unconscionable.

FRANKEN: Security outside the hospice was tight. But, initially, at least, the announcement of Terri Schiavo's death seemed to trigger more sorrow than anger among the demonstrators. Some gasped. Some cried. Some prayed. Some sang hymns.

CROWD (singing): And take me home.

FRANKEN: Friends of Michael Schiavo say he was with his wife when she died. And he was crying. John Centonze's sister, Jodi, is Michael Schiavo's girlfriend.

Centonze says Schiavo's only thought throughout the long legal battle was allow his wife to die in dignity.

JOHN CENTONZE, BROTHER OF JODI CENTONZE: He loved that woman. He swore that he would follow out what she wanted, and he did it no matter what, no matter what anybody said.

FRANKEN: Terri Schiavo will undergo an autopsy. But while the results may shed more light on her condition at the time she died, it will not end the debate that has been become her public legacy. That much was clear even as a van took Terri Schiavo's body to the medical examiner's office.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: The dispute will not end with the death of Terri Schiavo. Her remains should be released tomorrow. Michael Schiavo says that it's her desire to have her cremated and then buried in Pennsylvania. That, like everything else, has been against the wishes of the blood relatives of Terri Schiavo -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Bob Franken, doing some excellent reporting for us over these past several days.

We didn't hear from Michael Schiavo in the final days before his wife's death, but his attorney did speak out on his behalf earlier today.

This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL SCHIAVO: I can just tell you Mr. Schiavo's overriding concern here was to provide for Terri a peaceful death with dignity. And I emphasize it, because this death was not for the siblings and not for the spouse and not for the parents.

This was for Terri. She has a right to die peaceably in a loving setting and with dignity, and that was his overriding concern.

It was very disquieting to hear the priest issue venom and make extremely harsh statements about Mr. Schiavo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The passions sparked by the Terri Schiavo case have not subsided with her death. Neither has the rancor between her husband and her parents.

CNN's Mary Snow has that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even after her death, strangers came to the hospice where Terri Schiavo spent her final years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are grieving still for what this will mean for our country, yes. But we feel we have done all that we could possibly do and we have -- you know, we're going to stand before the lord without any regrets.

SNOW: Some brought flowers and let them at a makeshift memorial for Terri Schiavo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's cruel and unjust.

SNOW: Still, hours after Terri's body has been removed and taken to the county morgue, there were some who continued to debate the issues of life and death that surrounded her. Robin Ritter (ph) is a nurse who came to the hospice on her lunch break.

ROBIN RITTER, NURSE: It's just kind of paying your last respects to somebody that's gone.

SNOW: But the controversy that swirled around much of the 15 years Terri Schiavo was hospitalized is following her to her final resting place. A state court has already determined that Michael Schiavo's wishes to have her cremated will be honored, with her remains taken to Pennsylvania, where they were both born. Her parents and siblings wanted her to be buried in Florida, rather than cremated, which, they have argued, is not consistent with her Catholic upbringing.

Earlier in the week, her husband agreed to have an autopsy performed to determine the extent of brain damage she suffered. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pursuant to Florida law, the autopsy report will be public record. Although we will attempt to expedite the results, the cause of death and autopsy report may not be available for several weeks.

SNOW (on camera): The county medical examiner says that Terri Schiavo's remains are expected to be released within 24 hours. And then it's expected that Michael Schiavo's plans to have her cremated will go forward.

Mary Snow, CNN, Pinellas Park, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The political battle over Terri Schiavo continues after her death. The House Republican leader, Tom DeLay, today issued what seems to be an extraordinary threat again judges involved in the case.

Let's go live to our congressional correspondent Joe Johns. He's joining us from Capitol Hill -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay came out slamming state and federal judges, even the Supreme Court today. First, he issued a statement in which he said -- quote -- "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior." And then on top of that, he held a news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: We will look at an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president. When given the jurisdiction to hear this case anew and look at all the facts and make a determination, they chose not to participate, contrary to what Congress and the president asked them to do. We will look into that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: DeLay's comments have attracted the attention of a number of Democrats and even some Republicans. Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts the latest to weight in, saying in part Mr. DeLay's comments today were "irresponsible and reprehensible. I'm not sure what Mr. DeLay meant when he said the time will come for the men responsible to this to answer for their behavior, but at a time when emotions are running high, Mr. DeLay needs to make clear that he's not advocating violence against anyone."

So, that's the case here from Capitol Hill -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: All right, Joe Johns, reporting for us, thank you, Joe.

The death of Terri Schiavo ends, at least in part, a wrenching saga that saw one family's private tragedy become a national drama. But this complex story started out rather simply, when two college students met and fell in love. Here's CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): You would probably never recognize the photographs. Just a young couple in love. But today, the world knows their story of star-crossed tragedy, the stuff of Shakespearian drama.

MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: We loved each other tremendously. She was shy. She was warm. She was sweet.

See the water squirting up there?

ZARRELLA: Now, the lives of Terri and Michael Schiavo are forever changed.

M. SCHIAVO: Look at those ducks (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

ZARRELLA: Before Terri became disabled in 1990, she and Michael had the dreams and plans of any young couple in love.

M. SCHIAVO: We had wanted kids, and that's what we were trying to have when all this occurred. She loved kids. We wanted to have a house full, just to have a happy little normal life. We didn't want anything big. we weren't into the glimmer and the shine. We just wanted to have a nice little comfortable life together.

ZARRELLA: The two met by chance in school in the early 1980s. It was, Michael says, love at first sight.

M. SCHIAVO: I met Terri in community college. And we just happened to start a new semester, and she was -- I believe it was my psychology class. Don't quote me on that, but I believe it was. And she just happened to be sitting there, and I was over on one side of the room, and she was over on the other. And I heard this little laugh, and I looked over, and there she was.

I fell in love with her the instant I saw her.

ZARRELLA: And it wasn't long before they were dating.

(on camera): How did you ask her out? What did you, what was it?

M. SCHIAVO: I just -- we got to talking, and I just asked her, I said, We're having a family get-together, would you like to go with me? And she said yes. She was just -- she -- like I say, she had this persona, this aura about her that just attracted you. She was just the -- beautiful smile. I mean, just shy and outgoing at the same time.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): They dated, Michael says, about a year and were married in 1984.

(on camera): Wedding day was special? M. SCHIAVO: Oh, yes. Yes. When I saw her walking down the aisle, I said Oh, my God, look at that. There was just a vision of beauty. I'm telling you, she was gorgeous. And all's I saw was her big smile, just laughing at everybody and, you know, but that shy little laugh, but just outgoing, and...

ZARRELLA: You still hold those memories of those days very dear.

M. SCHIAVO: Oh, they're in my heart forever, my heart and my mind forever. Terri will always be in my heart. She will never leave it. She was a piece of my life, and she'll always be a piece of my life.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): John Zarrella, CNN, Clearwater, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And when we come back, we'll have the results of a scathing presidential commission on the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Recommendations, what to do next.

That and we're also following the latest on Pope John Paul II, his health. He's been administered last rites.

We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

For our viewers who may just be joining us, there's grave word from the Vatican, Pope John Paul II taking a serious turn for the worse.

Let's turn once again to our Alessio Vinci in Rome for the latest information we're getting from the Vatican -- Alessio.

VINCI: Hello, Wolf.

Yes, Pope John Paul II has been diagnosed with a high fever, which is caused by an infection to his urinary tract. And, according to Vatican officials, the pope is now being treated with antibiotics. This is information that came to us about an hour-and-a-half ago. Other Vatican officials are telling us that the situation with the pope is -- quote -- "serious" and that, indeed, the pope has been administered his last rites, which a blessing, if you want, an extreme unction, if you want, that's given to people who are sick.

Now, this rite does not indicate that the pope is dying or that he is within hours of dying. This simply means that the situation is extremely serious. And this is not the first time that the pope was given this blessing. Back in 1981, when he was shot in Saint Peter's Square in front of a large crowd, he fell in the arms of his assistant, Archbishop Dziwisz, as the car in which he was riding drove away. At that moment, Archbishop Dziwisz also gave him the last rites. And, indeed, the pope then survived that incident. So, it is an act performed in a situation when a person is obviously in grave situation, in grave ill situation. Go ahead, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alessio Vinci with the latest on Pope John Paul II. We'll be checking back with you, Alessio, as soon as there are additional developments, Pope John Paul II very, very sick right now.

There's other important news we're watching here in Washington. The language, blunt and blistering, the message, quite chilling. A U.S. presidential commission reports, U.S. intelligence agencies failed miserably in their assessments of Iraq's weapons. And it warns that the United States still knows very little about other threats posed by other foes.

Let's go live to our White House correspondent Dana Bash -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's because the U.S. knows still disturbingly little about nuclear and biological threats that the commission said intelligence lapses don't just threaten U.S. credibility, but also still its security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): The president's commission says the intelligence he used to go to war was dead wrong.

JUDGE LAURENCE SILBERMAN, WMD COMMISSION CO-CHAIRMAN: The intelligence community was absolutely uniform and uniformly wrong.

BASH: Despite what the CIA apparently dubbed a slam-dunk case, the nine-member Bush-appointed panel finds, even after a decade of trying, there was no good intelligence on Iraqi WMD, that intelligence agencies relied on sources who were telling lies about an Iraqi biological weapons program touted by the administration, but still jumped to conclusions that were loosely reasoned, ill-supported and poorly communicated.

The report says the president saw the most exaggerated, flawed assessments, his daily briefs riddled with attention-grabbing headlines and questionable data. Perhaps the most ominous finding, what is still unknown, even in North Korea and Iran. "The intelligence community knows disturbingly little about the nuclear programs of many of the world's most dangerous actors," the report states.

BUSH: In an age in which we are at war, the consequences of underestimating a threat could be tens of thousands of innocent lives.

BASH: Even after post-9/11 changes, the report says intelligence-gathering and information-sharing still needs work. The president says he's seriously considering the 74 commission recommendations to address the problems. Among them, more clearly defining the role of the new director of national intelligence so he can force change, encouraging dissenting views to challenge consensus, creating a national counterproliferation center to fight the spread of WMD, and creating a national security service inside the FBI . CHARLES ROBB, WMD COMMISSION CO-CHAIRMAN: The United States took a hit. The community recognizes it. Everyone that we've talked to recognizes it.

BASH: Commissioners predicted the biggest challenges may be turf wars and resistance to change. Some intelligence experts charge the report underestimates reforms already under way.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The sense is that they have to be slapped awake and knocked around a bit to get the point. Believe me, intelligence professionals understand that there were mistakes made here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And the president created this panel under intense political pressure during the campaign. Commissioners did look into whether any Bush official applied political pressure to any intelligence analyst to alter that information to support war. They said they found they didn't, but they also did not look into whether the White House exaggerated information that they did have, Wolf, and Democrats say that's something that must still by addressed.

BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House -- thanks very much, Dana.

We'll take a quick break. When I come back, we'll speak with the two co-chairmen of this presidential commission. I'll ask them whether the more than 1,500 U.S. troops who have died in Iraq may have died in vain because of faulty intelligence.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we mentioned, the presidential commission today issued a scathing indictment of the U.S. intelligence community, saying its assessment of Iraq's arsenal was -- quote -- "dead wrong." And the panel warns that drastic changes are needed to keep Americans safe from current threats.

Earlier today, I spoke with the commission co-chairmen, Laurence Silberman, a Republican and a U.S. Appeals Court judge, and Charles Robb, a Democrat and a former U.S. senator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Silberman, Senator Robb, thanks very much for joining us. Thanks for this important work.

Let's get to the bottom line. The intelligence leading up to the war on the weapons of mass destruction, in your words, dead wrong, worthless and misleading, not one bit most of the assessment was right.

Was this war, Judge Silberman, necessary? SILBERMAN: I think that's a question that goes beyond our charge. We were asked to evaluate the intelligence provided by the intelligence community to the Congress and to the president, and that we did.

BLITZER: But so much of the war was based on the fear that the Iraqis had chemical, biological, maybe even nuclear capabilities, and that fear was totally, totally, wrong.

SILBERMAN: It's certainly true that the intelligence was wrong.

BLITZER: So did these 1,500-plus American troops in Iraq, Senator Robb, die in vain?

ROBB: Again, we understand the importance of the question. That's a political decision and a political question, and we agreed at the outset of this entire investigation that we were going to stay away from the political dimension. We believed that we would have much better communication and candor from the intelligence community.

And it is not part of our charter, and we believe that we have a much better report than we would have had if we had gotten into the political questions and we are going to maintain that position.

BLITZER: But you're a former senator, a former governor. If the intelligence had been correct, Senator, if the intelligence was right, that there was no threat from WMD in Iraq, should the U.S. have gone to war?

ROBB: Wolf, as I think you know, I voted for force authorization in 1991 in the original Gulf War. I voted for regime change in 1998. Those are a matter of record.

From that point forward, or at least with respect to this particular investigation that we have done, we all made a decision that we were not going to get involved in any of the political actions that were taken or any of the policy matters. I don't frankly know the position of some of the other members of this commission on that particular question.

BLITZER: Senator Biden, who is the ranking Democrat, Judge Silberman, on the Foreign Relations Committee, has issued a statement reacting to your report. Among other things, he says: "The administration," the Bush administration, "chose instead to hype intelligence it liked and to repress or ignore intelligence that didn't conform with its message."

Is he right, based on all the research, all the interviews, all the work that you've done?

SILBERMAN: Wolf, you keep trying to ask the same question, no matter how many times we tell you that we -- our charter did not authorize us, nor were we willing to get into the question of how the administration used the intelligence. That's a political issue. And how the Congress used the intelligence, that's a political issue. Our charge was only to evaluate the intelligence. BLITZER: Well, you do conclude -- and let me read to you from the report -- "The analysis who worked Iraqi weapons issues universally agreed that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments. That said, it is hard to deny the conclusion that intelligence analysts worked in an environment that did not encourage skepticism about the conventional wisdom."

The point being they read newspapers, they hear statements from the president, from the vice president.

SILBERMAN: No.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Did that influence their intelligence analysis?

SILBERMAN: No, that's your point. Actually, what we concluded was the atmosphere within the intelligence community itself tended to force a conformity of views.

BLITZER: Well, I'm still a little confused. Were these analysts influenced by the political rhetoric that was coming out of the administration?

SILBERMAN: We did not find a shred of indication that that was true.

ROBB: The question that we investigated -- and we investigated it very carefully, because we were very much aware of the importance of this particular question -- is, did any member of the intelligence community make any changes, yield to any demands by the executive branch or anyone in a policy-making position, to change their views, their conclusions, their findings, whatever the case may be?

Did anyone from the executive branch or any organization outside of the intelligence community request that changes be made? And, in each case, we followed every lead that we had, including all those that have been reported. And the answer in each and every case was no.

BLITZER: The report also concludes, Judge Silberman, that, as far as current threats from weapons of mass destruction around the world, whether Iran, North Korea or elsewhere, the U.S. still has disturbingly little information about these threats.

SILBERMAN: That is correct.

BLITZER: How is that possible, that the United States of America right now knows so little about WMD capabilities, whether in North Korea or Iran or elsewhere around the world? This is a huge intelligence community.

SILBERMAN: You're absolutely right. The problem is much, much more difficult than it was during the Cold War. During the Cold War, we had one major adversary, an adversary that we had studied for 30 years. The intelligence community was attuned to try to be able to determine what that adversary's capabilities were. We're now dealing in a much, much more complex world. The targets are much more variegated and it's a much more difficult problem.

It requires a much greater effort, much greater imagination, much greater coordination of collection assets. It's an entirely different problem.

BLITZER: So, that begs the question. U.S. credibility right now in discussing these current threats, why should anyone believe the United States when it says there is a threat?

SILBERMAN: Well, actually, we're hoping that our report will lead to the enhanced credibility of the American intelligence community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Laurence Silberman speaking with me earlier today, together with former Senator Chuck Robb.

We're getting some new information coming in from the Justice Department right now.

Our producer there, Terry Friedan, is joining us on the phone.

What have you learned, Terry?

TERRY FRIEDAN, CNN PRODUCER: Well, the former national security adviser for -- I'm getting feedback, so I'm having a little -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead, Terry.

FRIEDAN: Yes, Sandy Berger, the former national security adviser to President Clinton, has agreed to plead guilty tomorrow in federal court to a charge of -- I'm sorry, Wolf. We're getting feedback here. But let me just -- I'll try to make this as brief as possible.

You'll recall that he was that -- there were allegations last year that Berger had in fact been sneaking classified documents...

BLITZER: I think what he was about to report is that Sandy Berger, the former national security adviser to President Clinton, has agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor for removing some of those documents from the National Archives that caused such a stir several months ago, a misdemeanor plea agreement, Sandy Berger.

We'll get some more information, bring that to you as we get it.

But that's it. That's all the time we have today, a day, a remarkable day. Pope John Paul II in very, very grave condition right now. We'll be watching that story here on CNN throughout the evening and into the days. Until tomorrow, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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Aired March 31, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're watching what's happening with the pope. He's taken a serious turn for the worse. CNN has learned the pontiff has been given his last rites. We welcome our viewers watching us now from around the world on CNN and CNN International.
We begin with the news from the Vatican. Let's go straight to our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci. What do we know exactly, Alessio?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Wolf. What we do know from Vatican officials is that, of course, the situation is serious as a matter of fact. As you mentioned and Judy mentioned, the pope was given his last rites, which is also known as an extreme unction, if you want, which is a blessing that is given in case of grave illnesses.

Now, one should be cautious and point out this kind of blessing is given while the situation is extremely serious, of course, but it does not mean that the pope is dying at this time, but simply the situation is extremely serious.

This is not the first time the pope was given his last rites. Back in 1981, when he was shot, as he fell back into the hands of his aide, Archbishop Stanislav Dziwisz, in the Pope-mobile at the Vatican in St. Peter's Square, the Vatican, at that time too, Archbishop Dziwisz gave the pope his last rites. So it is a rite, if you want, that is performed at a time of grave concern and grave illness.

Now, what we do know also, just to recap what Vatican officials and the Vatican press office is telling us is that the pope has been diagnosed with a urinary infection to his tract and that the pope has a high fever at this time and that he's being treated with antibiotics.

We also know from officials and from sources at the Gemelli Hospital, where the pope has been treated several times in the past, including twice -- admitted twice in February, that at this time, there are no provisions for the pope to return to that hospital. That, of course, could be read in two ways -- either that the situation is so desperate, that there is no way that the pope is going go back to the hospital, or that perhaps the situation is under control. But frankly speaking, given what we're hearing from Vatican officials at this time, the situation surrounding the health of Pope John Paul II is serious.

Wolf, back to you. BLITZER: Alessio, are we expecting additional statements tonight from spokesmen at the Vatican?

VINCI: Honestly, I don't think so, unless the situation goes even, you know, worse than now. We have heard from a Vatican spokesman, who was giving us the information that the pope indeed has been diagnosed with that urinary infection, that he has fever, and frankly speaking, had been myself quite surprised by the amount of information that the Vatican has issued in the last 24 hours. Yesterday, the Vatican admitting that the pope was being fed through a nasal tube. This tonight, the Vatican saying that the pope has a high fever and now has been diagnosed with this urinary tract infection.

So this is a lot of information by Vatican standards, and as far as official information coming out from the Vatican press office, unless the situation worsens, I don't think we're going to hear more. We're going to hear more from the Vatican official with whom we spoke on condition of anonymity of course, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we're showing, Alessio, our viewers around the world, on the right side of the screen, that's a dark scene there. This is the apartment, the residence of Pope John Paul II. We see no lights that are on in this complex. I take it there's been no decision to move His Holiness from there, from the Vatican back to the hospital?

VINCI: That is correct. And one of the reasons why the lights may be switched off is either that the pope is now sleeping and that his situation is under control, or most probably that the pope has been moved into an area of the Apostolic Palace where he can be given greater health care.

We do know that the Vatican apartment in which the pope has been spending most of his time now is, unless he's at the hospital of course, is equipped with very modern medical equipment that can take care of emergency situations, such as this one, for example, so it is possible that the pope may be in a different room other than his study or bedroom. But we simply don't know that.

BLITZER: Alessio, I'm going to have you stand by, and we'll come back as we get some more information. But let's get some additional information from here in Washington. Joining us is Father David O'Connell. He's the president of The Catholic University here in Washington. Father O'Connell, thank you very much for joining us.

What does it mean exactly that the pope has been administered -- given his last rites. Because in the vernacular, we almost always assume that it's over almost.

FATHER DAVID O'CONNELL, PRESIDENT, THE CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: The term "last rites" is a terms that's -- is an old term and has been replaced by the term "the Sacrament of the Sick." In the old days, the sacrament was reserved for the very final moments of a person's life. Now, the church's theology, sacramental theology has changed to look at the sacrament as a sacrament of healing and a sacrament of strength. But it is still called popularly in the vernacular "the last rites of the church."

BLITZER: For other priests to do this to Pope John Paul II right now, to administer the Sacrament of the Sick, to you as a priest, what does that mean?

O'CONNELL: To me, if I were in that position, it would be an extraordinary humbling experience to be ministering to the chief shepherd of the church of the universal Catholic Church throughout the world. This is something, you know, the deterioration of his condition, the great attention that's being given this, is something that we have anticipated. He's 84-year-old. He has Parkinson's disease. He has been debilitated in recent weeks. He's been suffering with various -- with a number of various infections. So it's something that we've all been watching and waiting for and praying for His Holiness that he be comfortable in these, his last days.

BLITZER: But presumably his doctors would make a decision and then go to the priests, the cardinals and other and say, this might be a good time to do this.

O'CONNELL: His doctors or immediate staff, Archbishop Dziwisz someone who is attending to him in the Vatican household.

BLITZER: So basically we're bracing, God forbid, for the worst right now?

O'CONNELL: I think so. I think so.

BLITZER: How significant will this immediate transfer or transition be for the Roman Catholic Church?

O'CONNELL: Oh, I think it will be tremendously significant. Let's face it, for 50 percent of the world, this is the only pope that they've ever known. He's been in office for 26 years. He's made incredible changes in the church. His ministry has been one that has emphasized fidelity to church teaching, the spirit of reform of the Vatican Council, and also, it's a papacy that's had its eye on the third millennium, the future. He has been, as George Wiegel's biography calls him, "a witness to hope, a hope in the future."

He has a certain -- and I've heard it said many time, a "rock star quality." This is a pope who has attracted the young people, has created "Youth Days," a pope who's really affected people deeply. And he has been seen by more people than any other human being in the history of the world. That's a very, very significant thing. So whoever follows him in the Chair of Peter is going to have a tough act to follow.

BLITZER: I know that you at The Catholic University here in Washington here have a special relationship with Pope John Paul II. I've seen it. I've been there. I covered his visit to the United States back in the '90s. Talk a little bit about Pope John Paul II and Catholics in America?

O'CONNELL: Well, I think this is -- as we know, just from watching in recent weeks, there's a great deal of love and a great deal of admiration and affection for the pope. It's not to say that the pope hasn't been controversial. Not to say that the pope hasn't been challenging to contemporary culture. I think he sees himself as countercultural pope whose job, whose mission, whose ministry it was to challenge our contemporary society with the traditional values of the Catholic Church and its teachings.

At Catholic University, Pope John Paul was a visiting professor before he became pope, and he's well-known to us. Catholic University is a pontifical university. It is the papal university in the United States. And so there is, as you say, that special relationship with him.

BLITZER: How do they announce at the Vatican that the pope is dead? How do they go about that process and inform Catholics around the world?

O'CONNELL: Well, there's a person who holds the position of Camerlengo, it's called, the Papal Chamberlain. And the pope's staff is to summon that person, who is to come in, and the customary way that this has been done in the past is that there was a hammer, and the pope was tapped three times on the head, calling out his baptismal name. And when he didn't respond, the announcement was made that he was dead. And then it was passed to his vicar in Rome, and then the announcement was made publicly.

I'm not sure whether that's done now or not.

BLITZER: Is there a specific person who has to make the announcement publicly?

O'CONNELL: I think traditionally, it is either the vicar of Rome, who in this case would be Cardinal Ruini, who serves that capacity in the Vatican, or it would be the dean of the College of Cardinals, one or the other.

BLITZER: Father O'Connell, I'm going to have you stand by for a moment. Our Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, is joining us now from Rome. What have you learned, Delia?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have no further news other than what we've been reporting, Wolf, which is that the pope is running this high fever and has been administered extreme unction or last rites. And I don't think that there will be much more coming out of the Vatican. We've already had quite a bit of information by Vatican standards tonight.

So there is great concern here for the pope's health, but let's also remember that this is the great comeback pope, so we don't want to jump ahead of ourselves just yet.

BLITZER: In the statements that you've received, Delia, from the Vatican, from the spokesmen, from the cardinals surrounding Pope John Paul II, has it been strictly involving his medical condition -- the urinary tract infection -- or have the statements gone beyond that? GALLAGHER: No, absolutely They are very reserved sort of statements, Wolf. They refer only to his medical situation, and even then they're very general, they don't go into too much detail. The most detail we got was yesterday talking about some of the difficulties he was having with nutrition. So really we've gotten what we consider quite a lot of information, but still very, very general. And we've had to deal a lot with just looking at the pope, seeing how he is -- we saw him yesterday, on Wednesday, from his window. And everybody could see he's having great, great difficulty. So I think that putting those two things together, what the Vatican tells us and what we're able to see with our own eyes, we come to these conclusions. Wolf?

BLITZER: And just your thoughts on this decision to administer the last rites, or the Sacrament of the Sick to Pope John Paul II? What does that mean to you, Delia?

GALLAGHER: Well, again, it's not something which makes me raise my eyebrows too much, because it is a sacrament which is administered in situations of grave illness. So one has to consider that this is something which is almost pro forma for somebody who is in the situation the pope is in. So, again, it wouldn't make me necessarily think of an emergency situation, but it does point to the very serious situation that the pope is in.

BLITZER: Delia, stand by for a minute. I want to bring back Father David O'Connell, the president of Catholic University here in Washington. It's critically important for Catholics to be given these last rites -- the Sacrament of the Sick -- before they pass away, but explain to our viewers why.

O'CONNELL: Well, the church is a system of sacraments: there are seven sacraments that follow the individual baptized Christian through his life or her life. The Sacrament of Baptism brings you into the church. The Sacrament of the Eucharist feeds you, the Sacrament of Penance forgives you, the Sacrament of Matrimony joins you to someone, the Sacrament of Orders ordains you to the priesthood. And this is another sacrament that focuses on a period of life.

And the period of life is a period of distress, a period of pain, a period of suffering. And the intention behind the sacrament -- the purpose of the sacrament -- is really to give people encouragement, consolation, strength, healing, and grace. And so it is very important when a Catholic recognizes illness or when a Catholic is in bad shape to avail themselves of this special sacrament.

BLITZER: And if a Catholic dies suddenly -- on the battlefield or just a heart attack -- and there's no last rites Sacrament of the Sick that are administered, what, if anything, does that mean for that Catholic?

O'CONNELL: Of course, you know, we believe in the providence of God and the goodness of God, and that God is there to greet us, to call us home. The sacrament is, as I say, a sacrament of healing. In situations like those you describe -- those are extraordinary circumstances, extraordinary situations where a person has no control, doesn't have the ability to avail themselves of a priest in his last hours -- but God is good and God is full of love and grace and welcomes us home.

BLITZER: He would forgive, certainly, for that as well. You see on the right of the screen, the picture of the apartment, the complex, the residence of Pope John Paul II. I don't know if you've been there, Father O'Connell -- I'm sure you've been to the Vatican -- but if you have, tell our viewers what it's like inside.

O'CONNELL: It's an extraordinary -- it has qualities of the ancient world -- of course, the artwork, the statuary, just the structure itself. It's interesting, my vice president, Frank Persico, just came back from Rome today. He was in the St. Peter's Square when the pope appeared at the window on Wednesday. And I said to him -- I said, What did it feel like? And he says it was a tremendous, electric feeling in the crowd. There was such joy, such exultation, to see the Holy Father.

I had the real privilege of celebrating mass in the pope's private chapel with him and about eight other priests a few years ago, and it's extraordinary. The last time I was with the pope, I was with the board of Catholic U. a few years ago. When the pope appeared, of course, he was much older than the time I had seen him before. My reaction was to break down and cry. I was just so moved by the presence of this man and what he means to us in the church, as the Vicar of Christ, as really the chief shepherd of the world, the leader of the faithful.

And it's not just the Catholic faithful, but all who believe in God and all who have goodwill. This is a man who has made a tremendous impact on the history of our world and of course the history of the church.

BLITZER: And as gravely ill as he is right now, Father O'Connell, would there be any thought at all to handing over responsibilities to someone else even while he's alive?

O'CONNELL: Well, I'm sure people are thinking about that, but I don't think it will happen.

BLITZER: Because he is the Father of the Catholic Church?

O'CONNELL: He is our Father, and his intention has been clear all along, that he was not intending -- did not intend -- to step down.

BLITZER: Just like a father is not going to resign from being a father of children, this pope is not going to resign from being the Father of the Catholic Church.

O'CONNELL: It's very interesting -- he used that exact analogy once in a talk.

BLITZER: I'm going to have you stand by, Father O'Connell. You've been very helpful to us, but please stand by. Dr. Stewart Factor is joining us on the phone now. He's a professor of neurology at Emory University in Atlanta. Dr. Factor, talk a little bit about his Parkinson's disease, that we all know about -- how this may be affecting his current health problems.

DR. STEWART FACTOR, EMORY UNIVERSITY: People with Parkinson's disease are very prone to getting urinary tract infections in general. And people with Parkinson's disease, when they get urinary tract infections, can have much more significant symptoms than a healthy person would. So a person of his age with Parkinson's disease who gets a urinary tract infection could certainly actually become unresponsive, and that may be the situation that's occurred with him now.

BLITZER: So if it were just a urinary tract infection and high fever for a man 84 years old, it would be one thing, but it's very, very different -- is that right, Dr. Factor, for someone with advanced Parkinson's?

FACTOR: Yes. People with Parkinson's disease have more trouble with infections and more trouble responding to infections. Very often their Parkinson's gets worse, and in addition they can develop this unresponsiveness. If he develops an infection in his blood -- what we call a urosepsis -- then that can be even more serious and maybe less responsive to the antibiotics.

BLITZER: He's being treated with a high dose of antibiotics, we're told by the Vatican. Is that likely to have an impact, given his Parkinson's?

FACTOR: It's possible, but being that he's had Parkinson's disease plus all these other pulmonary problems in recent weeks, his immune system may not be able to respond as well as someone who is otherwise healthy.

BLITZER: Dr. Factor, I want to bring in our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our CNN medical correspondent -- he's a neurosurgeon himself.

What's going through your mind, Sanjay, as you hear of the pontiff's health problems right now?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we've been talking about this for some time -- February 1 was when he was admitted to the hospital the first time, there for ten days, and just two weeks after that, the tracheotomy, and then we heard about the nasogastric Dobbhoff feeding tube yesterday. There's been a sequence of events, here, Wolf. I think any medical professional can start to see that obviously he may not have recovered ever fully from his first hospitalization back at the beginning of February.

All these other events are certainly concerning -- most concerning is if this urinary tract infection, which was diagnosed after he had a high fever, is more than isolated to just the urinary tract. If in fact it has gotten into the bloodstream any way, that could certainly would make him very lethargic, which may have prompted this reading of the Sacrament of the Sick to the pope. You know, these are all the things that are sort of going through the mind -- details are a bit sketchy. I'd like to know how high his fever is, I'd like to know if they're giving him IV antibiotics, I'd like to know if his body is mounting a fight against this infection. This is information that we're still trying to collect, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well maybe, Dr. Factor, you want to weigh in on that as well. You heard Sanjay Gupta; what do you think? I think we lost Dr. Stewart Factor, professor of neurology of Emory University in Washington (sic).

But Sanjay, you heard Dr. Factor say the Parkinson's is a really serious complicating factor for an 84-year-old man with this condition. What can you add about that?

GUPTA: It can be a vicious cycle, Wolf. On the one hand, people who have Parkinson's disease are more predisposed to infections just simply because of their immobility. When I first heard that the pope had developed a high fever, my first thought was that this was probably going to be a pneumonia, which I thought was the more likely scenario given his recent health conditions. But certainly a urinary tract infection, a high likelihood as well, when you hear about these high fevers.

But the vicious cycle part of it is that, once you have the infection, your Parkinson's disease also becomes worse -- the symptoms of Parkinson's, that rigidity, that tremor, harder to control now with an infection. Again, if this infection actually gets into the bloodstream -- this is something known as sepsis, that's the clinical term for it -- but basically it's a body-wide infection, and I think to anybody is concerning, especially someone of advanced age with pre- existing medical conditions like the pope, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let me bring Father O'Connell of the -- president of Catholic University. You were telling us about your vice president, who only today returned from the Vatican, saw his holiness in St. Peter's Square, on -- when is it on -- Sunday?

O'CONNELL: Wednesday. The last appearance.

BLITZER: On Wednesday. How emotional of a moment was that for him? Did he break down and cry?

O'CONNELL: He called me shortly after that, and he told me about it, and it really was an emotional experience for him. Of course, for many of us who have grown up seeing this man, elected pope, as really the youngest pope in this century, and the youngest pope since 1846, to watch this man who really is only -- was elected -- only a couple years older than I am now, grow old before our eyes and become, in a sense, almost a grandfather figure, for people -- to watch him suffer and to watch him as he's declined in health is as difficult as it would be to watch a parent in the same situation.

BLITZER: Is there a cardinal out there -- is there someone out there -- who is the front-runner, if you will, the likely next pope? Or is this open for a long-term discussion? O'CONNELL: You know, I'll be perfectly honest with you, cardinals don't talk about this. We have seven cardinals on our board of trustees. It's not a conversation that they have, it's certainly not a public conversation that they have, and I doubt if it's a private conversation. So serious does the church take this, that there's actually a sanction -- a canonical sanction -- if there's any kind of campaigning that goes on.

I really don't know that there is a front-runner, and we leave so much in terms of our faith and belief up to the Holy Spirit that at the time of the election, the Holy Spirit is going to manifest the will of God and who is the person to be chosen.

BLITZER: Remind our viewers, in the United States and around the world, Father O'Connell, why this pope, this Polish pope, became the pope?

O'CONNELL: Well, of course he's the first non-Italian pope since 1522, since Adrian IV. He was a man who was behind the scenes. He was a man who was representative of a society that was under oppression. He was a man who was very present at the second Vatican Council, but he's a person whose name was not a household word. He came to be known in this country through Cardinal Crowe of Philadelphia who he visited every year. And for those -- because of his academic background, he came known to us at Catholic University. But, to be honest with you, as a young seminarian, as a priest, I never heard his name mentioned.

BLITZER: It was a surprise, although he was very political during the solidarity movement in Poland and he developed a reputation for himself back in his homeland.

O'CONNELL: Absolutely. But, you know, as is often the case, or as has been the case, years ago, you know, we Americans tend to focus on our own country and don't tend to look at other parts of the world.

BLITZER: Let me bring back Delia Gallagher, our Vatican analyst in Rome.

Delia, I assume you've been looking into this issue of succession. You heard what Father O'Connell said, that cardinals are not even supposed to talk about this and we don't even know if they're talking about it privately. But what have you heard?

GALLAGHER: Well, let me tell you, it's very interesting, Wolf.

He's perfectly right, that the cardinals are not supposed to talk about it. Whether they think about it and talk about it privately, however, I think is another matter, and it's interesting that, just last week, the Polish cardinal, Cardinal Glemp, gave an interview to an Argentinian newspaper and said he thought that the papacy may return to an Italian. Now, he didn't name any names, but that's still a rather large indiscretion, given this unspoken rule -- unwritten rule -- that the cardinals don't speak about this matter.

So, I think sometimes we do get ideas of where the cardinals would like the church to go in the future. Of course, they don't come out and name names, but the press tends to push ahead and sort of suggest people, will it be an African pope? Will it be a South American pope? And so the cardinals might give you a small size response in terms of what they think -- where they think the future of the church should go, and there are still many European cardinals. I think one of the feelings over here is that it might stay with a European. But, again, this is a conjectural thing at the moment, especially because the pope is still with us, and so one doesn't want to jump ahead too far.

But, on the other hand, I think it's perfectly right to say the cardinals are considering this, especially because there may not be time for another consistory -- another creation of other cardinals, in which case the future pope will come from one of the men who is currently a cardinal.

BLITZER: And Sanjay Gupta, as critically ill as the pontiff is right now, the body works in mysterious ways, and there's no way of predicting how much longer Pope John Paul II might be able to sustain his health. He could come out of this and get back to work, I assume, although his situation by all accounts is gravely ill?

GALLAGHER: Based on data, you get a sense of -- someone of this age, with these sort of medical conditions already preexisting, who now has a urinary tract infection, you know, certainly Wolf, he could certainly recover from all of this, and get back to his daily activities, though I think any medical person around the world who is following the situation and learning about the pope's medical history, has to be somewhat concerned now about this.

Especially, things to be looking out for, any changes of blood pressure, for example, Wolf, that's one of the first indicators that this infection may have spread from just, beyond the urinary tract into the bloodstream itself. Heart rate going up, certainly advanced fever, or, if this infection just simply isn't responding to antibiotics. So, yes, a full recovery is possible, although very guarded at this point, Wolf.

BLITZER: Sanjay, what, if anything, should we read into the fact that he is still in his residence at the Vatican and has not been moved to a hospital?

GALLAGHER: Yes, that's a good question, Wolf. On the one hand, the Vatican has extraordinary medical facilities, really, for a place that is not being a hospital -- certainly they can administer IV antibiotics. They cannot do operations there, which is why he was taken to the hospital for that tracheotomy, remember, back on February 10. I don't know what make of it. On the one hand, you may say, he just may be too ill right now to even be transported; on the other hand they may be saying this is something treatable, and we think we can treat it at the Vatican. We're going to keep looking into that, Wolf. That's a good question.

BLITZER: All right, Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.

I want to thank Father David O'Connell from the Catholic University; he's been helping us better understand what's going on. Delia Gallagher in Rome, our Vatican analyst, and Alessio Vinci, our reporter. We'll of course get back to the Vatican as soon as there are additional developments, if there are additional developments, in the course of the next few hours.

We want to thank our international viewers for joining us. CNNi, CNN International's coverage, will resume after a short break with their regular programming. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In this country, Terri Schiavo died this morning, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed. Her death marks the end of an unprecedented legal battle that thrust end-of-life issues into the national spotlight, but the backstory of the bitter family feud that marked Schiavo's final years continues, and the fallout from the politicization of the case remains to be seen.

We have complete coverage for you, beginning with our national correspondent, Bob Franken. He's outside the hospice where Schiavo died in Pinellas Park, Florida -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's ironic. After the years of prolonged agony, the end came pretty quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Mary Schindler was in tears when she arrived at the hospice. Just minutes later, there was an announcement.

PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER FAMILY ADVISER: It is with great sadness that it's been reported to us that Terri Schiavo has passed away.

FRANKEN: More than 15 years after she suffered a heart attack and went into a what doctors describes as a vegetative state, nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed, Terri Schiavo was dead at the age of 41.

SUZANNE VITADAMO, SISTER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: She is finally at peace with God for eternity.

FRANKEN: Death came just hours after the Supreme Court rejected the Schindler family's final appeal to get her feeding tube reinserted. It was just the last skirmish in a long legal war between the Schindlers and Schiavo's husband, Michael, who said his wife would have wanted the tube removed.

The bitter family fight apparently continued until the very end. A Schindler family spokesman says that they were at their daughter's bedside until 10 minutes before she died. FATHER FRANK PAVONE, SCHINDLER FAMILY SUPPORTER: The Schindler family made it clear that they were willing to be in there with Michael at those last moments. They were willing to do that. Michael did not want that.

RANDALL TERRY, SPOKESMAN FOR PARENTS OF TERRI SCHIAVO: The family wanted to be there. And I think all of us believe that Terri wanted her family there. And so for them to have been escorted out of the room at that moment is absolutely unconscionable.

FRANKEN: Security outside the hospice was tight. But, initially, at least, the announcement of Terri Schiavo's death seemed to trigger more sorrow than anger among the demonstrators. Some gasped. Some cried. Some prayed. Some sang hymns.

CROWD (singing): And take me home.

FRANKEN: Friends of Michael Schiavo say he was with his wife when she died. And he was crying. John Centonze's sister, Jodi, is Michael Schiavo's girlfriend.

Centonze says Schiavo's only thought throughout the long legal battle was allow his wife to die in dignity.

JOHN CENTONZE, BROTHER OF JODI CENTONZE: He loved that woman. He swore that he would follow out what she wanted, and he did it no matter what, no matter what anybody said.

FRANKEN: Terri Schiavo will undergo an autopsy. But while the results may shed more light on her condition at the time she died, it will not end the debate that has been become her public legacy. That much was clear even as a van took Terri Schiavo's body to the medical examiner's office.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: The dispute will not end with the death of Terri Schiavo. Her remains should be released tomorrow. Michael Schiavo says that it's her desire to have her cremated and then buried in Pennsylvania. That, like everything else, has been against the wishes of the blood relatives of Terri Schiavo -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Bob Franken, doing some excellent reporting for us over these past several days.

We didn't hear from Michael Schiavo in the final days before his wife's death, but his attorney did speak out on his behalf earlier today.

This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL SCHIAVO: I can just tell you Mr. Schiavo's overriding concern here was to provide for Terri a peaceful death with dignity. And I emphasize it, because this death was not for the siblings and not for the spouse and not for the parents.

This was for Terri. She has a right to die peaceably in a loving setting and with dignity, and that was his overriding concern.

It was very disquieting to hear the priest issue venom and make extremely harsh statements about Mr. Schiavo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The passions sparked by the Terri Schiavo case have not subsided with her death. Neither has the rancor between her husband and her parents.

CNN's Mary Snow has that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even after her death, strangers came to the hospice where Terri Schiavo spent her final years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are grieving still for what this will mean for our country, yes. But we feel we have done all that we could possibly do and we have -- you know, we're going to stand before the lord without any regrets.

SNOW: Some brought flowers and let them at a makeshift memorial for Terri Schiavo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's cruel and unjust.

SNOW: Still, hours after Terri's body has been removed and taken to the county morgue, there were some who continued to debate the issues of life and death that surrounded her. Robin Ritter (ph) is a nurse who came to the hospice on her lunch break.

ROBIN RITTER, NURSE: It's just kind of paying your last respects to somebody that's gone.

SNOW: But the controversy that swirled around much of the 15 years Terri Schiavo was hospitalized is following her to her final resting place. A state court has already determined that Michael Schiavo's wishes to have her cremated will be honored, with her remains taken to Pennsylvania, where they were both born. Her parents and siblings wanted her to be buried in Florida, rather than cremated, which, they have argued, is not consistent with her Catholic upbringing.

Earlier in the week, her husband agreed to have an autopsy performed to determine the extent of brain damage she suffered. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pursuant to Florida law, the autopsy report will be public record. Although we will attempt to expedite the results, the cause of death and autopsy report may not be available for several weeks.

SNOW (on camera): The county medical examiner says that Terri Schiavo's remains are expected to be released within 24 hours. And then it's expected that Michael Schiavo's plans to have her cremated will go forward.

Mary Snow, CNN, Pinellas Park, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The political battle over Terri Schiavo continues after her death. The House Republican leader, Tom DeLay, today issued what seems to be an extraordinary threat again judges involved in the case.

Let's go live to our congressional correspondent Joe Johns. He's joining us from Capitol Hill -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay came out slamming state and federal judges, even the Supreme Court today. First, he issued a statement in which he said -- quote -- "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior." And then on top of that, he held a news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: We will look at an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president. When given the jurisdiction to hear this case anew and look at all the facts and make a determination, they chose not to participate, contrary to what Congress and the president asked them to do. We will look into that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: DeLay's comments have attracted the attention of a number of Democrats and even some Republicans. Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts the latest to weight in, saying in part Mr. DeLay's comments today were "irresponsible and reprehensible. I'm not sure what Mr. DeLay meant when he said the time will come for the men responsible to this to answer for their behavior, but at a time when emotions are running high, Mr. DeLay needs to make clear that he's not advocating violence against anyone."

So, that's the case here from Capitol Hill -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: All right, Joe Johns, reporting for us, thank you, Joe.

The death of Terri Schiavo ends, at least in part, a wrenching saga that saw one family's private tragedy become a national drama. But this complex story started out rather simply, when two college students met and fell in love. Here's CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): You would probably never recognize the photographs. Just a young couple in love. But today, the world knows their story of star-crossed tragedy, the stuff of Shakespearian drama.

MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: We loved each other tremendously. She was shy. She was warm. She was sweet.

See the water squirting up there?

ZARRELLA: Now, the lives of Terri and Michael Schiavo are forever changed.

M. SCHIAVO: Look at those ducks (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

ZARRELLA: Before Terri became disabled in 1990, she and Michael had the dreams and plans of any young couple in love.

M. SCHIAVO: We had wanted kids, and that's what we were trying to have when all this occurred. She loved kids. We wanted to have a house full, just to have a happy little normal life. We didn't want anything big. we weren't into the glimmer and the shine. We just wanted to have a nice little comfortable life together.

ZARRELLA: The two met by chance in school in the early 1980s. It was, Michael says, love at first sight.

M. SCHIAVO: I met Terri in community college. And we just happened to start a new semester, and she was -- I believe it was my psychology class. Don't quote me on that, but I believe it was. And she just happened to be sitting there, and I was over on one side of the room, and she was over on the other. And I heard this little laugh, and I looked over, and there she was.

I fell in love with her the instant I saw her.

ZARRELLA: And it wasn't long before they were dating.

(on camera): How did you ask her out? What did you, what was it?

M. SCHIAVO: I just -- we got to talking, and I just asked her, I said, We're having a family get-together, would you like to go with me? And she said yes. She was just -- she -- like I say, she had this persona, this aura about her that just attracted you. She was just the -- beautiful smile. I mean, just shy and outgoing at the same time.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): They dated, Michael says, about a year and were married in 1984.

(on camera): Wedding day was special? M. SCHIAVO: Oh, yes. Yes. When I saw her walking down the aisle, I said Oh, my God, look at that. There was just a vision of beauty. I'm telling you, she was gorgeous. And all's I saw was her big smile, just laughing at everybody and, you know, but that shy little laugh, but just outgoing, and...

ZARRELLA: You still hold those memories of those days very dear.

M. SCHIAVO: Oh, they're in my heart forever, my heart and my mind forever. Terri will always be in my heart. She will never leave it. She was a piece of my life, and she'll always be a piece of my life.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): John Zarrella, CNN, Clearwater, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And when we come back, we'll have the results of a scathing presidential commission on the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Recommendations, what to do next.

That and we're also following the latest on Pope John Paul II, his health. He's been administered last rites.

We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

For our viewers who may just be joining us, there's grave word from the Vatican, Pope John Paul II taking a serious turn for the worse.

Let's turn once again to our Alessio Vinci in Rome for the latest information we're getting from the Vatican -- Alessio.

VINCI: Hello, Wolf.

Yes, Pope John Paul II has been diagnosed with a high fever, which is caused by an infection to his urinary tract. And, according to Vatican officials, the pope is now being treated with antibiotics. This is information that came to us about an hour-and-a-half ago. Other Vatican officials are telling us that the situation with the pope is -- quote -- "serious" and that, indeed, the pope has been administered his last rites, which a blessing, if you want, an extreme unction, if you want, that's given to people who are sick.

Now, this rite does not indicate that the pope is dying or that he is within hours of dying. This simply means that the situation is extremely serious. And this is not the first time that the pope was given this blessing. Back in 1981, when he was shot in Saint Peter's Square in front of a large crowd, he fell in the arms of his assistant, Archbishop Dziwisz, as the car in which he was riding drove away. At that moment, Archbishop Dziwisz also gave him the last rites. And, indeed, the pope then survived that incident. So, it is an act performed in a situation when a person is obviously in grave situation, in grave ill situation. Go ahead, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alessio Vinci with the latest on Pope John Paul II. We'll be checking back with you, Alessio, as soon as there are additional developments, Pope John Paul II very, very sick right now.

There's other important news we're watching here in Washington. The language, blunt and blistering, the message, quite chilling. A U.S. presidential commission reports, U.S. intelligence agencies failed miserably in their assessments of Iraq's weapons. And it warns that the United States still knows very little about other threats posed by other foes.

Let's go live to our White House correspondent Dana Bash -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's because the U.S. knows still disturbingly little about nuclear and biological threats that the commission said intelligence lapses don't just threaten U.S. credibility, but also still its security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): The president's commission says the intelligence he used to go to war was dead wrong.

JUDGE LAURENCE SILBERMAN, WMD COMMISSION CO-CHAIRMAN: The intelligence community was absolutely uniform and uniformly wrong.

BASH: Despite what the CIA apparently dubbed a slam-dunk case, the nine-member Bush-appointed panel finds, even after a decade of trying, there was no good intelligence on Iraqi WMD, that intelligence agencies relied on sources who were telling lies about an Iraqi biological weapons program touted by the administration, but still jumped to conclusions that were loosely reasoned, ill-supported and poorly communicated.

The report says the president saw the most exaggerated, flawed assessments, his daily briefs riddled with attention-grabbing headlines and questionable data. Perhaps the most ominous finding, what is still unknown, even in North Korea and Iran. "The intelligence community knows disturbingly little about the nuclear programs of many of the world's most dangerous actors," the report states.

BUSH: In an age in which we are at war, the consequences of underestimating a threat could be tens of thousands of innocent lives.

BASH: Even after post-9/11 changes, the report says intelligence-gathering and information-sharing still needs work. The president says he's seriously considering the 74 commission recommendations to address the problems. Among them, more clearly defining the role of the new director of national intelligence so he can force change, encouraging dissenting views to challenge consensus, creating a national counterproliferation center to fight the spread of WMD, and creating a national security service inside the FBI . CHARLES ROBB, WMD COMMISSION CO-CHAIRMAN: The United States took a hit. The community recognizes it. Everyone that we've talked to recognizes it.

BASH: Commissioners predicted the biggest challenges may be turf wars and resistance to change. Some intelligence experts charge the report underestimates reforms already under way.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The sense is that they have to be slapped awake and knocked around a bit to get the point. Believe me, intelligence professionals understand that there were mistakes made here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And the president created this panel under intense political pressure during the campaign. Commissioners did look into whether any Bush official applied political pressure to any intelligence analyst to alter that information to support war. They said they found they didn't, but they also did not look into whether the White House exaggerated information that they did have, Wolf, and Democrats say that's something that must still by addressed.

BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House -- thanks very much, Dana.

We'll take a quick break. When I come back, we'll speak with the two co-chairmen of this presidential commission. I'll ask them whether the more than 1,500 U.S. troops who have died in Iraq may have died in vain because of faulty intelligence.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we mentioned, the presidential commission today issued a scathing indictment of the U.S. intelligence community, saying its assessment of Iraq's arsenal was -- quote -- "dead wrong." And the panel warns that drastic changes are needed to keep Americans safe from current threats.

Earlier today, I spoke with the commission co-chairmen, Laurence Silberman, a Republican and a U.S. Appeals Court judge, and Charles Robb, a Democrat and a former U.S. senator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Silberman, Senator Robb, thanks very much for joining us. Thanks for this important work.

Let's get to the bottom line. The intelligence leading up to the war on the weapons of mass destruction, in your words, dead wrong, worthless and misleading, not one bit most of the assessment was right.

Was this war, Judge Silberman, necessary? SILBERMAN: I think that's a question that goes beyond our charge. We were asked to evaluate the intelligence provided by the intelligence community to the Congress and to the president, and that we did.

BLITZER: But so much of the war was based on the fear that the Iraqis had chemical, biological, maybe even nuclear capabilities, and that fear was totally, totally, wrong.

SILBERMAN: It's certainly true that the intelligence was wrong.

BLITZER: So did these 1,500-plus American troops in Iraq, Senator Robb, die in vain?

ROBB: Again, we understand the importance of the question. That's a political decision and a political question, and we agreed at the outset of this entire investigation that we were going to stay away from the political dimension. We believed that we would have much better communication and candor from the intelligence community.

And it is not part of our charter, and we believe that we have a much better report than we would have had if we had gotten into the political questions and we are going to maintain that position.

BLITZER: But you're a former senator, a former governor. If the intelligence had been correct, Senator, if the intelligence was right, that there was no threat from WMD in Iraq, should the U.S. have gone to war?

ROBB: Wolf, as I think you know, I voted for force authorization in 1991 in the original Gulf War. I voted for regime change in 1998. Those are a matter of record.

From that point forward, or at least with respect to this particular investigation that we have done, we all made a decision that we were not going to get involved in any of the political actions that were taken or any of the policy matters. I don't frankly know the position of some of the other members of this commission on that particular question.

BLITZER: Senator Biden, who is the ranking Democrat, Judge Silberman, on the Foreign Relations Committee, has issued a statement reacting to your report. Among other things, he says: "The administration," the Bush administration, "chose instead to hype intelligence it liked and to repress or ignore intelligence that didn't conform with its message."

Is he right, based on all the research, all the interviews, all the work that you've done?

SILBERMAN: Wolf, you keep trying to ask the same question, no matter how many times we tell you that we -- our charter did not authorize us, nor were we willing to get into the question of how the administration used the intelligence. That's a political issue. And how the Congress used the intelligence, that's a political issue. Our charge was only to evaluate the intelligence. BLITZER: Well, you do conclude -- and let me read to you from the report -- "The analysis who worked Iraqi weapons issues universally agreed that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments. That said, it is hard to deny the conclusion that intelligence analysts worked in an environment that did not encourage skepticism about the conventional wisdom."

The point being they read newspapers, they hear statements from the president, from the vice president.

SILBERMAN: No.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Did that influence their intelligence analysis?

SILBERMAN: No, that's your point. Actually, what we concluded was the atmosphere within the intelligence community itself tended to force a conformity of views.

BLITZER: Well, I'm still a little confused. Were these analysts influenced by the political rhetoric that was coming out of the administration?

SILBERMAN: We did not find a shred of indication that that was true.

ROBB: The question that we investigated -- and we investigated it very carefully, because we were very much aware of the importance of this particular question -- is, did any member of the intelligence community make any changes, yield to any demands by the executive branch or anyone in a policy-making position, to change their views, their conclusions, their findings, whatever the case may be?

Did anyone from the executive branch or any organization outside of the intelligence community request that changes be made? And, in each case, we followed every lead that we had, including all those that have been reported. And the answer in each and every case was no.

BLITZER: The report also concludes, Judge Silberman, that, as far as current threats from weapons of mass destruction around the world, whether Iran, North Korea or elsewhere, the U.S. still has disturbingly little information about these threats.

SILBERMAN: That is correct.

BLITZER: How is that possible, that the United States of America right now knows so little about WMD capabilities, whether in North Korea or Iran or elsewhere around the world? This is a huge intelligence community.

SILBERMAN: You're absolutely right. The problem is much, much more difficult than it was during the Cold War. During the Cold War, we had one major adversary, an adversary that we had studied for 30 years. The intelligence community was attuned to try to be able to determine what that adversary's capabilities were. We're now dealing in a much, much more complex world. The targets are much more variegated and it's a much more difficult problem.

It requires a much greater effort, much greater imagination, much greater coordination of collection assets. It's an entirely different problem.

BLITZER: So, that begs the question. U.S. credibility right now in discussing these current threats, why should anyone believe the United States when it says there is a threat?

SILBERMAN: Well, actually, we're hoping that our report will lead to the enhanced credibility of the American intelligence community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Judge Laurence Silberman speaking with me earlier today, together with former Senator Chuck Robb.

We're getting some new information coming in from the Justice Department right now.

Our producer there, Terry Friedan, is joining us on the phone.

What have you learned, Terry?

TERRY FRIEDAN, CNN PRODUCER: Well, the former national security adviser for -- I'm getting feedback, so I'm having a little -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead, Terry.

FRIEDAN: Yes, Sandy Berger, the former national security adviser to President Clinton, has agreed to plead guilty tomorrow in federal court to a charge of -- I'm sorry, Wolf. We're getting feedback here. But let me just -- I'll try to make this as brief as possible.

You'll recall that he was that -- there were allegations last year that Berger had in fact been sneaking classified documents...

BLITZER: I think what he was about to report is that Sandy Berger, the former national security adviser to President Clinton, has agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor for removing some of those documents from the National Archives that caused such a stir several months ago, a misdemeanor plea agreement, Sandy Berger.

We'll get some more information, bring that to you as we get it.

But that's it. That's all the time we have today, a day, a remarkable day. Pope John Paul II in very, very grave condition right now. We'll be watching that story here on CNN throughout the evening and into the days. Until tomorrow, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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