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American Morning
Pope's Condition Declines
Aired April 01, 2005 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The pope is said to be suffering from unstable blood pressure, a condition related to an overwhelming infection. The Vatican describing him as being in very serious condition, and says he's surrounded by a team of doctors at the papal residence. Sometime in the next 30 minutes or so, we do expect a mass at St. John's Lateran Church, delivered by the Vicar of Rome. It is possible we will get some kind of announcement then.
And as evening falls in Rome, 6:30 local time in the evening, back to the Vatican, back to Rome, Italy and Jim Bittermann. How significant is this mass in 30 minutes, Jim?
JIM BITTERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, one of those things that is significant, Bill, is that this is a mass, this rite that we expect to be used tonight is a rite that is specially designed for this exact event, the sickness of the pope. Not John Paul II in particular, but the sickness of any pope. A rite designed for Catholic worshipers to pray for the pope's health.
One of the things that's significant is that a number of top Vatican clergymen are going to this mass, and we're also hearing now that a number of top Italian politicians, the opposition leader, for instance, the deputy prime minister, they are going to go to this mass this evening, as well.
So it's unclear what will be announced at this mass, what exactly will be said, but the man who is going to be celebrating the mass is a man who's charged with the responsibility -- Cardinal Camillo Ruini -- he's charged with the responsibility of announcing the death of the pope when it occurs. So that conjunction of events has led to a lot of speculations, as can you imagine.
HEMMER: Jim, one more thing here. We mentioned the mass in 30 minutes and perhaps, as you point out, we'll get a further update at that point. But other than that, it's been six hours since anyone from the Vatican has talked about this. Other than the mass, is there anything scheduled? Is there anything that you would expect in terms of an announcement or update?
BITTERMANN: Well, one thing that's so very curious for us is the fact that the Vatican press office announced earlier in the day that they will remain open 24 hours a day. Now, this has never happened in the history of the Vatican press office. It usually closes at 3:00 in the afternoon, sort of banker's hours. But in any case, the fact that they have said they're going to leave the Vatican press office open indicates to us that they're going to have something to announce, they think. HEMMER: All right, Jim, thanks. Jim Bittermann there from Vatican City. 6:32 local time there. And we will watch that from overseas. In the meantime, though, back here in New York. The pope leads an entire church around the world, a billion Catholics worldwide. He has had a huge impact in the church's role in so many countries.
A religion expert and senior "Newsweek" editor is Lisa Miller. She's my guest now here in New York. Good morning to you.
LISA MILLER, SR. EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Good morning.
HEMMER: You've been watching and listening and reading throughout the day. Your reaction at the outset is what, based on what we're hearing?
MILLER: This is a very serious situation. The fact that the Vatican press office is open all night is highly unusual. I mean, as everybody was saying this morning, the fact that Joaquin Navarro- Valls, who has been his press officer for a really long time, burst into tears almost this morning, was very moving. Clearly this is very grave, and everybody in the world is praying for him.
HEMMER: You know, Lisa, one thing we've been trying to pick up through our analysts throughout the morning, whether they're in New York or whether they're in Washington or in Rome, Italy, is the legacy this man will leave. After 26 years at the head of the a church of one billion strong, what do you believe that legacy will be?
MILLER: An extraordinary legacy. I don't think that it can even be calculated yet.
HEMMER: Really?
MILLER: Yes. He became pope when he was a relatively young man, you know. And you look back at the pictures and you see him, see pictures of him skiing and hiking. He was so vital. He loved nature, he loved being outside. And then there was the fall of communism. And there was the fact he was presiding over a church that became largely brown instead of white. He appointed more South American cardinals, more African cardinals, than any pope ever had. He traveled widely.
If you look back at the pictures, you see pictures of him with Reagan, with Thatcher, with Elton John, with Charles and Diana. I mean, the man was everywhere, and I think -- and he reached out to Jews and he reached out to Muslims and he reached out to other Christians. I mean, he just has been an extraordinary influence.
HEMMER: And with those travels, too, to the continent of Africa, all over Latin America, there to spread the message as best he could to every corner of the world that would take him in. And believe me, there were a lot of corners on this planet for that 26-year period. But as we go forward, if the news does not improve and if we have truly reached an end for this extraordinary life for this man, what will happen in terms of succession in the Vatican? MILLER: Well, it's hard to know, and I think it's important for everybody to remember that the next pope -- that the Catholic Church believes that the next pope is chosen by God. So all of this politicking and talking about politics, it doesn't really matter now. If the pope passes, there will be a nine-day mourning period, there will be official masses and then the conclave will convene in 15 to 20 days. That's because in the old days, the cardinals needed a really long time to get to the Vatican.
HEMMER: Now have you jet airplanes all over the world.
MILLER: That's right. They will be cloistered together. They will not go outside. They will stay there for probably less than 12 days. There are 120 or 130 of them who are voting. And at end of that time, the puff of white smoke will appear and the new pope will be announced.
HEMMER: Truly remarkable. Just think about where the College of Cardinals get together: in the Sistine Chapel.
MILLER: It's amazing.
HEMMER: One of the most remarkable places in the world, in terms of art and architecture and Michelangelo. You mention a successor. It's been very difficult for us to get a name. And I think that's telling, and I think it's telling because so few people have talked about or even thought about the possibility that they would not be served by this current pope.
MILLER: Yes, I mean, I think that there's a rule of thumb there, that if you say -- you can't say you're running for pope. It doesn't -- it's not relevant. I mean, this is a holy position, and people believe that the pope is chosen by God, and I think that we have to let that process happen.
HEMMER: Lisa Miller from "Newsweek" magazine. Thanks for coming with us today and sharing. Here's Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: As you might expect, prayers for Pope John Paul II are being offered literally all around the world. In his native Poland, people are leaving school and work, heading for churches to pray. They're also gathering at the pope's old house in Krakow. This is where he lived when he was archbishop there. And they're gathering around his house, as you can see, praying for his recovery this morning. We just spoke about how difficult it was to be a practicing Catholic in a communist country.
Very same sentiment of prayer is being expressed in Paris at the Notre Dame Cathedral. You see people here lighting candles. And cardinals in Jerusalem today are saying they are receiving support from Jews and Muslims. You've heard how the pope has reached out to the Jewish people. Well, they are answering in kind by offering their prayers, as well, this morning.
Roman Catholics in America are offering prayers for the pope, as well. We're joined now by CNN's Chris Huntington at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, and Gary Tuchman at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Boston.
We'll start with Chris. Tell us what the mood was like at mass this morning?
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, first to put it in context, St. Patrick's Cathedral, which you can see behind me, is some sense the symbolic seat of Catholicism here in the United States, the greatest concentration of New York State. About 45 percent of the population of New York City are said to be Catholic.
The tone at St. Patrick's all this morning -- and I'll get to the mass in just a second -- but we were there just moments ago and it is considerably busier than usual, according to the lay staff that we spoke to. At mass this morning, Edward Cardinal Egan, presiding over his normal morning mass, but tailoring it especially, as you expect, to the situation with Pope John Paul II -- likening the pope to St. Peter, who endured great struggles to bring to life the Christian church, was really renowned as the first pope.
And Cardinal Egan saying that the current pope has endured struggles in his lifetime. Moments ago, you were alluding to his brave struggles against Nazism and against Soviet threats in Poland. And indeed, the cardinal here calling the pope a hero for our time. After the mass, we had an opportunity to speak more candidly with Cardinal Egan and he shared some personal reflections about Pope John Paul II.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK: A very strong man, very good man, an easy man to work with. You know you're dealing with a man that wants accurate, quick, truthful answers, but he also is the kind of fellow that knows how to be kind and kid with you. And so you asked what my feelings are? Well, my feelings are feelings of one who has kind of lost a father.
He named me a bishop. Completely unexpectedly that would ever be. I thought I was going to continue until '75 in Rome, and then he sent me to the capital of the world and that's everything, isn't it? You can't have anything more than the capital of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNTINGTON: Now to give you some background there, Cardinal Egan spent many, many, years in the Vatican, working very closely, in fact, with Pope John Paul II revising some of the canon law that, of course, is the basis of the Catholic Church. There are plans here for elaborate services in the event of the passing of John Paul II. Initially, there will be a special mass, then there will be a couple days of additional masses, including one that Cardinal Egan plans to conduct in Polish, of course, the native tongue of Pope John Paul II -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Chris Huntington live at St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning.
Now we go to CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman. He's at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Boston. Good morning to you.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning to you. And most Boston Catholics feel they have a very special relationship with Pope John Paul II, because after all, Boston is the capital of American Irish Catholicism. And Pope John Paul II, on his first visit to the United States as pope in 1979, chose Boston as his first stop. And he did come inside this church right here. This is the largest church in the Boston Archdiocese, which is the fourth largest archdiocese in the country.
But he came here in '79, came through the archdiocese, then celebrated a mass in the Boston Common, in the public garden, the two green spots right across the street from the state capitol building on Beacon Hill here in Boston. Between one and two million people were out in drenching rain, participating in it. So that's why I think it's a very special relationship.
New England has the highest percentage of Catholics in the United States. In Massachusetts, more than 50 percent of the people who live here are Catholic. The number one state, by the way, is Rhode Island. That's another reason New Englanders feel so close to this pope.
We should tell you, though, that there's a very complicated relationship between Catholics and their archdiocese, because this is where the largest priest sex abuse scandal occurred just last year. The Boston Archdiocese paid out $85 million to more than 500 people who said they were molested by priests and some of the molestations happened around the exact same time that the pope was here in 1979. And there are some people, many people, we should say, who say the pope did not do enough about that, to speak out about what happened here in Boston and what's happened elsewhere in the United States.
Nevertheless, this is not a time people want to dwell on that. The pope is very sick, and people who have been in the church and who are walking around Boston, Massachusetts are very worried.
Carol, back to you.
COSTELLO: Gary Tuchman, live in Boston this morning.
Now with the rest of the day's headlines here's Kelly Wallace. Hello, Kelly?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol. And good morning again to all of you.
Here are some other stories now in the news. More details could soon be known about the full extent of Terri Schiavo's brain damage. An autopsy is now being performed. Michael Schiavo plans to have his wife's body cremated, the ashes brought to Pennsylvania. The Schindlers wanted their daughter buried in Florida. They held a memorial service in her honor last night. Terri Schiavo's body is expected to be released to her husband later today.
Prosecutors will recommend former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger receive a $10,000 fine and lose his security clearance for three years. Berger is expected to plead guilty today to a misdemeanor charge of removing classified documents from the National Archives. At issue, files about the government's anti-terror efforts leading up to the September 11th attacks. Sources familiar with the agreement say the plea will keep Berger from doing any jailtime.
And the Washington Monument back open to the public after being under construction for almost a year. The monument was shutdown last September for a $15 million security upgrade. The security improvements include vehicle barriers and a new lighting system. So nice for people going to the nation's capital.
COSTELLO: Yes, but more security measures are going to be put in to place at the Jefferson Memorial and the Lincoln Memorial. So the construction's not over on yet the Mall.
WALLACE: Exactly. Much more on the way.
COSTELLO: Thanks.
HEMMER: More on the breaking news out of the Vatican in a moment mere. Once again, the health of Pope John Paul II has taken a turn for the worse. Our expanded coverage here on AMERICAN MORNING continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: A live look at Vatican this morning. Welcome back to this expanded edition of AMERICAN MORNING. We just got word that the Vatican will issue a new statement on the pope's health in just about 10 minutes. As you know, we haven't heard anything from the Vatican since 5:30 Eastern this morning, when you heard that very emotional press conference given by the pope's spokesman -- tears in his eyes -- saying the pope was in grave condition, but he was serene and lucid.
HEMMER: And saying I've never seen him in this condition before, and that spans 26 years. If you're just joining us, we want to get back to Dr. Sanjay Gupta now at the CNN Center and talk about the medical side of the pope and his condition. We know now for two months he has been in and out of the hospital twice. We also know going back years, he suffered from Parkinson's. Here is a man who was shot in St. Peter's Square back in 1981, recovered from that, but so many think, Sanjay, when you reflect back, oh, years, since that incident, that it truly did some damage to his health in terms of his long-term condition.
We have gone over, Sanjay, a number of these issues throughout the morning here. But in the event that some viewers are just joining us, I want to talk about some of the statements that have come out of the Vatican, and help you explain them to us.
Septic shock -- what is that?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Septic shock basically means when an infection somewhere in the body, in this case in the urinary tract, has left that part of the body and gotten into the bloodstream. Now that bacteria in the bloodstream can be very problematic for an individual it. It causes the blood vessels to grow large and the blood pressure to fall, and subsequently low blood flow to all of the organs in the body, including the kidneys, including the liver, including the brain as well. It could be a very dangerous situation even in a healthy person -- Bill.
HEMMER: Is that different, Sanjay, from what the Vatican terms here cardiocirculatory collapse?
GUPTA: Sort of one spectrum, same spectrum, different things, when someone is in septic shock, developing septic shock, one of the problems that occurs is that there is cardiocirculatory collapse. And what that means, simply put, is that the heart and the blood vessels simply can't work hard enough anymore to provide enough blood flow to the body. This is a very problematic situation.
If a person was in an intensive care unit somewhere in the hospital, they'd be getting medication to try to increase their blood pressure. They might be getting fluids to try and increase the amount of fluid that they have in their body as well, and they would certainly be receiving the antibiotic to try and beat the infection in the first place -- Bill.
HEMMER: He has crippling hip illnesses. He has knee ailments that we need to talk about, too, and perhaps the most significant, later in his life, is from Parkinson's. How has Parkinson's disease contributed or added to his current condition, can you say that?
GUPTA: You can say that, I think quite definitively. Several of these things here. He had been shot, as we know. He had significant arthritis. The Parkinson's, in addition to the arthritis, for example, really rendered him rather immobile. We've seen those images now, traveling along by vehicle, really very difficult for him to get around on his own. That actually makes it more likely for someone to develop an infection.
And, Bill, when I heard this yesterday about the high fever, I thought it was going to be pneumonia. That's one of the most common infections seen in someone with Parkinson's, with these preexisting medical conditions. In his case, it was a urinary-tract infection, but now we can say for sure, regardless of where this infection has started, it most certainly has spread now through his body. That is where the septic shock term is coming from.
Also it's worth pointing out, at the other end of the cycle, if Parkinson's sets you up for an infection, that infection can also make your Parkinson's disease much worse. He's probably having a flare-up of his symptoms, as well as a result of infection -- Bill.
HEMMER: And on top of that, he's 84, set to be 85 on May 18th.
Sanjay thanks for that, at the CNN Center -- Carol.
GUPTA: Thank you, Bill.
COSTELLO: And hopefully we'll get more when this news conference happens in about 10 minutes from now from the Vatican. Let's go to Jim Bittermann. He's in Rome. What do you make of this, Jim?
BITTERMANN: Well, there's a couple of things that are quite striking here. For one thing, there is this mass, which is about to begin in about 10 minute as well. The idea that Navarro-Valls, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the papal spokesman, was seen leaving the Vatican press center just a few minutes ago, as he walked past the journalists, he said there would be an announcement in 10 minutes. Journalists said that he looked very grave.
So the timing here is very curious that this mass about to begin with an announcement also expected at just about the same time. It's perhaps no accident, Carol, that it may be an announcement that will set the tone for this mass -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Jim, tell us about this cardinal who will preside over this mass.
BITTERMANN: Well, Camillo Ruini is the vicar, the cardinal Vicar of Rome. That means he's in a sense, the pope's assistant in Rome. The pope is the bishop of Rome. And among his other responsibilities -- he's also the bishop of the churches of Rome. And Cardinal Ruini, of course, the pope can't take care of the churches of Rome, you know all by himself, and the person in the position of Cardinal Ruini is the Vicar of Rome, who does take care of the churches and keeps an eye on the churches of Rome.
Where this mass is going to be held tonight is also significant because it's at the St. John Lateran Church. It's across the city from the St. Peter's. And basically they've always sort of called it the pope's second church in Rome, because it's a huge church. It's also the site -- right next door to the church is the Lateran Palace. And this is one of three papal palaces, the first being the Apostolic Palace in St. Peter's Square. Then there's the Lateran Palace and then Castel Gandolfo, which is the pope's summer palace.
These three palaces, in the event of the pope's death, with go back to the church. They are in the control of the pope now. As long as the pope is alive, they're in the control in the pope. But once the pope -- if the pope's death is announced, then in fact these three palaces will be immediately turned over to the care and keeping of the church. The Camerlengo will take charge -- this is the pope's chamberlain -- and he will take charge of not only those three palaces but also other papal documents. He'll seal the papal offices and supervise the removal of papal documents in the event of the pope's death.
So, a lot of significance to where this is being held. Also at this mass, I should say -- and we're watching some pictures here coming in now of the mass preparation about to begin -- at this mass are -- a number of political leaders have come to this mass this evening, including the Italian opposition leader and the deputy prime minister.
COSTELLO: Okay, is that unusual, Jim? I mean, it must be, for them to attend mass, what, today, Friday?
BITTERMANN: Well, yeah. This mass is unusual. I mean, the fact is that this mass wouldn't be held if the pope wasn't sick. This is expressly for the pope. The one thing is that apparently there is a special Catholic rite for sick popes. This is a way of celebrating the mass that's designed expressly for this situation, a sick pope, and that's the rite that we expect to be celebrated here at this mass in just a few minutes from now. It is not unusual for Italian political leaders to come to mass. They do it on high holidays, particularly. But this is really exceptional. I think everything about this day has been pretty exceptional.
Carol?
COSTELLO: Jim Bittermann live in Rome. We'll get back to you. Thank you.
HEMMER: Carol, as you were talking with Jim, we want to show our viewers here Vatican Television. This is -- let's put it on the screen there in a moment here. You will see a cross with a bit of a mirror reflection in it. This is the image we're getting from Vatican TV.
Now it is possible this statement that we've been talking about that should happen at any moment could come by way of this camera shot here. It's also possible that the mass that you were talking about with Jim Bittermann at the St. John Lateran Church in Rome could also come on the same signal. So we are watching this picture for any sign or any indication. And Robert Moynihan's back with us down in D.C.
Robert, try and flesh out some of the details that we're trying to fill in right now. The significance of this cross, this mass, et cetera, and the statement that again could happen in a moment.
ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, I'm very concerned. And this is a monstrance. It holds the eucharist, the consecrated host, which is the body of Christ. And for the Vatican to be displaying only that as an image on their television to me is quite significant. It's as if it were saying the pope is going to be with Christ.
And there's the Apostolic Palace in the background, and on the left side in the back is the secretary of state, that's Bernini's Colonnade.
HEMMER: Robert, if I can interrupt. Just -- I would just interject here and try and enlighten us with our viewers. You're carrying a very somber tone in your voice. Are you trying to tell us that you believe, because this image is being shown, that the pope has passed away?
MOYNIHAN: I do not know what has happened, but I know that something very serious is occurring. And the rumors are flying all around Rome that something like that has just happened. And the church is passing through a very important moment here. And...
HEMMER: Robert, if it is true, how will it be announced from Vatican City?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I think we'll get an announcement very shortly. The fact that Navarro-Valls walked by the journalists there in the press office and was very grave suggests that he's got another serious announcement to make. And I think we'll get that within a few minutes.
HEMMER: Who is the one that is -- what does tradition dictate as to who makes this announcement?
MOYNIHAN: Well, the tradition now is -- the Vatican press office hardly existed 40 years ago there. Was no Vatican press office before 1960. So it could very well be Navarro-Valls, because he is the pope's spokesman, that will announce something. And he's expected to announce something in just a few minutes.
HEMMER: Robert, as the camera goes in here on the papal residence, it's my understanding that window to the far right there in the corner, that's the bedroom for the pope. What would the other windows around that area be within the residence?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I've been on the room on the -- I've not been in the one on the far corner, but next to it is the pope's study, and there's a long table in there. And for many years, there was an icon -- one of the most precious icons to the Russian people was in there for about 11 years. It was the icon of Our Lady of Kazan. It shows the Virgin Mary and the child of Jesus, and it was just returned to Russia last summer. The pope wanted to bring the icon himself back to Russia. In fact, I always believed that he would live to be able to carry it back to Russia.
And I had the privilege once about three years ago of standing..
HEMMER: Robert, let me interrupt you a second here. Go ahead and put the shot up on the camera here. We're watching Vatican TV on the other system we have here in New York City. As it pulls out here, Robert, if you see anything that we should take note of, please speak up.
We have been watching this cross. We're awaiting mass to begin in Rome. That was scheduled to start at 7:00 p.m. local time, which by my watch, is two-and-a-half minutes from now. This is the cathedral across town, the mass at the St. John Lateran Church to be presided over by the Vicar of Rome, Camillo Ruini. And again, we anticipate the mass to begin at any time, and again, this statement from the Vatican to come out at any point as well. And as we all stand by in here in New York and really for around the world right now, waiting for any word and any sign on the condition of Pope John Paul II. It has been now six-and-a-half hours since any word has come from the Vatican.
COSTELLO: And you know, it's been an agonizing wait for pilgrims around the world. People are praying. People are arriving at churches. Special masses are being planned. So hopefully the word will come very soon. HEMMER: October 16th, 1978, he shocked the world when the College of Cardinals came out and announced that a man from southern Poland would lead the Catholic Church, one billion strong worldwide, and for the first time in 500 years it would not be an Italian. As we watch Vatican TV, let's dip in here and listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ...next to him in this moment with our love, and with the love that John Paul II for nearly 27 years has accompanied us. The mass starts at 19:00. In a few minutes, it will start. I ask all of you in Rome to pray for the Holy Father in all churches and in each family.
HEMMER: Let's continue to observe herewith the translation in Rome, but also want to pass along to you, the Associated Press is just crossing with another bulletin. It says, and I quote now, "The Vatican says the pope's condition has worsened." Whether or not we get more detail about that condition is something we're standing by and waiting for.
We have been on the air now, Carol, for the past five hours, with the expanded version here of AMERICAN MORNING, and again, waiting on the breaking news out of Rome, out of the Vatican. And as soon as that comes along, we will pass it along to you.
Time for us though to hand off to our colleagues.
COSTELLO: Wolf Blitzer is in Washington. Hello, Wolf.
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Aired April 1, 2005 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The pope is said to be suffering from unstable blood pressure, a condition related to an overwhelming infection. The Vatican describing him as being in very serious condition, and says he's surrounded by a team of doctors at the papal residence. Sometime in the next 30 minutes or so, we do expect a mass at St. John's Lateran Church, delivered by the Vicar of Rome. It is possible we will get some kind of announcement then.
And as evening falls in Rome, 6:30 local time in the evening, back to the Vatican, back to Rome, Italy and Jim Bittermann. How significant is this mass in 30 minutes, Jim?
JIM BITTERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, one of those things that is significant, Bill, is that this is a mass, this rite that we expect to be used tonight is a rite that is specially designed for this exact event, the sickness of the pope. Not John Paul II in particular, but the sickness of any pope. A rite designed for Catholic worshipers to pray for the pope's health.
One of the things that's significant is that a number of top Vatican clergymen are going to this mass, and we're also hearing now that a number of top Italian politicians, the opposition leader, for instance, the deputy prime minister, they are going to go to this mass this evening, as well.
So it's unclear what will be announced at this mass, what exactly will be said, but the man who is going to be celebrating the mass is a man who's charged with the responsibility -- Cardinal Camillo Ruini -- he's charged with the responsibility of announcing the death of the pope when it occurs. So that conjunction of events has led to a lot of speculations, as can you imagine.
HEMMER: Jim, one more thing here. We mentioned the mass in 30 minutes and perhaps, as you point out, we'll get a further update at that point. But other than that, it's been six hours since anyone from the Vatican has talked about this. Other than the mass, is there anything scheduled? Is there anything that you would expect in terms of an announcement or update?
BITTERMANN: Well, one thing that's so very curious for us is the fact that the Vatican press office announced earlier in the day that they will remain open 24 hours a day. Now, this has never happened in the history of the Vatican press office. It usually closes at 3:00 in the afternoon, sort of banker's hours. But in any case, the fact that they have said they're going to leave the Vatican press office open indicates to us that they're going to have something to announce, they think. HEMMER: All right, Jim, thanks. Jim Bittermann there from Vatican City. 6:32 local time there. And we will watch that from overseas. In the meantime, though, back here in New York. The pope leads an entire church around the world, a billion Catholics worldwide. He has had a huge impact in the church's role in so many countries.
A religion expert and senior "Newsweek" editor is Lisa Miller. She's my guest now here in New York. Good morning to you.
LISA MILLER, SR. EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Good morning.
HEMMER: You've been watching and listening and reading throughout the day. Your reaction at the outset is what, based on what we're hearing?
MILLER: This is a very serious situation. The fact that the Vatican press office is open all night is highly unusual. I mean, as everybody was saying this morning, the fact that Joaquin Navarro- Valls, who has been his press officer for a really long time, burst into tears almost this morning, was very moving. Clearly this is very grave, and everybody in the world is praying for him.
HEMMER: You know, Lisa, one thing we've been trying to pick up through our analysts throughout the morning, whether they're in New York or whether they're in Washington or in Rome, Italy, is the legacy this man will leave. After 26 years at the head of the a church of one billion strong, what do you believe that legacy will be?
MILLER: An extraordinary legacy. I don't think that it can even be calculated yet.
HEMMER: Really?
MILLER: Yes. He became pope when he was a relatively young man, you know. And you look back at the pictures and you see him, see pictures of him skiing and hiking. He was so vital. He loved nature, he loved being outside. And then there was the fall of communism. And there was the fact he was presiding over a church that became largely brown instead of white. He appointed more South American cardinals, more African cardinals, than any pope ever had. He traveled widely.
If you look back at the pictures, you see pictures of him with Reagan, with Thatcher, with Elton John, with Charles and Diana. I mean, the man was everywhere, and I think -- and he reached out to Jews and he reached out to Muslims and he reached out to other Christians. I mean, he just has been an extraordinary influence.
HEMMER: And with those travels, too, to the continent of Africa, all over Latin America, there to spread the message as best he could to every corner of the world that would take him in. And believe me, there were a lot of corners on this planet for that 26-year period. But as we go forward, if the news does not improve and if we have truly reached an end for this extraordinary life for this man, what will happen in terms of succession in the Vatican? MILLER: Well, it's hard to know, and I think it's important for everybody to remember that the next pope -- that the Catholic Church believes that the next pope is chosen by God. So all of this politicking and talking about politics, it doesn't really matter now. If the pope passes, there will be a nine-day mourning period, there will be official masses and then the conclave will convene in 15 to 20 days. That's because in the old days, the cardinals needed a really long time to get to the Vatican.
HEMMER: Now have you jet airplanes all over the world.
MILLER: That's right. They will be cloistered together. They will not go outside. They will stay there for probably less than 12 days. There are 120 or 130 of them who are voting. And at end of that time, the puff of white smoke will appear and the new pope will be announced.
HEMMER: Truly remarkable. Just think about where the College of Cardinals get together: in the Sistine Chapel.
MILLER: It's amazing.
HEMMER: One of the most remarkable places in the world, in terms of art and architecture and Michelangelo. You mention a successor. It's been very difficult for us to get a name. And I think that's telling, and I think it's telling because so few people have talked about or even thought about the possibility that they would not be served by this current pope.
MILLER: Yes, I mean, I think that there's a rule of thumb there, that if you say -- you can't say you're running for pope. It doesn't -- it's not relevant. I mean, this is a holy position, and people believe that the pope is chosen by God, and I think that we have to let that process happen.
HEMMER: Lisa Miller from "Newsweek" magazine. Thanks for coming with us today and sharing. Here's Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: As you might expect, prayers for Pope John Paul II are being offered literally all around the world. In his native Poland, people are leaving school and work, heading for churches to pray. They're also gathering at the pope's old house in Krakow. This is where he lived when he was archbishop there. And they're gathering around his house, as you can see, praying for his recovery this morning. We just spoke about how difficult it was to be a practicing Catholic in a communist country.
Very same sentiment of prayer is being expressed in Paris at the Notre Dame Cathedral. You see people here lighting candles. And cardinals in Jerusalem today are saying they are receiving support from Jews and Muslims. You've heard how the pope has reached out to the Jewish people. Well, they are answering in kind by offering their prayers, as well, this morning.
Roman Catholics in America are offering prayers for the pope, as well. We're joined now by CNN's Chris Huntington at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, and Gary Tuchman at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Boston.
We'll start with Chris. Tell us what the mood was like at mass this morning?
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, first to put it in context, St. Patrick's Cathedral, which you can see behind me, is some sense the symbolic seat of Catholicism here in the United States, the greatest concentration of New York State. About 45 percent of the population of New York City are said to be Catholic.
The tone at St. Patrick's all this morning -- and I'll get to the mass in just a second -- but we were there just moments ago and it is considerably busier than usual, according to the lay staff that we spoke to. At mass this morning, Edward Cardinal Egan, presiding over his normal morning mass, but tailoring it especially, as you expect, to the situation with Pope John Paul II -- likening the pope to St. Peter, who endured great struggles to bring to life the Christian church, was really renowned as the first pope.
And Cardinal Egan saying that the current pope has endured struggles in his lifetime. Moments ago, you were alluding to his brave struggles against Nazism and against Soviet threats in Poland. And indeed, the cardinal here calling the pope a hero for our time. After the mass, we had an opportunity to speak more candidly with Cardinal Egan and he shared some personal reflections about Pope John Paul II.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK: A very strong man, very good man, an easy man to work with. You know you're dealing with a man that wants accurate, quick, truthful answers, but he also is the kind of fellow that knows how to be kind and kid with you. And so you asked what my feelings are? Well, my feelings are feelings of one who has kind of lost a father.
He named me a bishop. Completely unexpectedly that would ever be. I thought I was going to continue until '75 in Rome, and then he sent me to the capital of the world and that's everything, isn't it? You can't have anything more than the capital of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNTINGTON: Now to give you some background there, Cardinal Egan spent many, many, years in the Vatican, working very closely, in fact, with Pope John Paul II revising some of the canon law that, of course, is the basis of the Catholic Church. There are plans here for elaborate services in the event of the passing of John Paul II. Initially, there will be a special mass, then there will be a couple days of additional masses, including one that Cardinal Egan plans to conduct in Polish, of course, the native tongue of Pope John Paul II -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Chris Huntington live at St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning.
Now we go to CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman. He's at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Boston. Good morning to you.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning to you. And most Boston Catholics feel they have a very special relationship with Pope John Paul II, because after all, Boston is the capital of American Irish Catholicism. And Pope John Paul II, on his first visit to the United States as pope in 1979, chose Boston as his first stop. And he did come inside this church right here. This is the largest church in the Boston Archdiocese, which is the fourth largest archdiocese in the country.
But he came here in '79, came through the archdiocese, then celebrated a mass in the Boston Common, in the public garden, the two green spots right across the street from the state capitol building on Beacon Hill here in Boston. Between one and two million people were out in drenching rain, participating in it. So that's why I think it's a very special relationship.
New England has the highest percentage of Catholics in the United States. In Massachusetts, more than 50 percent of the people who live here are Catholic. The number one state, by the way, is Rhode Island. That's another reason New Englanders feel so close to this pope.
We should tell you, though, that there's a very complicated relationship between Catholics and their archdiocese, because this is where the largest priest sex abuse scandal occurred just last year. The Boston Archdiocese paid out $85 million to more than 500 people who said they were molested by priests and some of the molestations happened around the exact same time that the pope was here in 1979. And there are some people, many people, we should say, who say the pope did not do enough about that, to speak out about what happened here in Boston and what's happened elsewhere in the United States.
Nevertheless, this is not a time people want to dwell on that. The pope is very sick, and people who have been in the church and who are walking around Boston, Massachusetts are very worried.
Carol, back to you.
COSTELLO: Gary Tuchman, live in Boston this morning.
Now with the rest of the day's headlines here's Kelly Wallace. Hello, Kelly?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol. And good morning again to all of you.
Here are some other stories now in the news. More details could soon be known about the full extent of Terri Schiavo's brain damage. An autopsy is now being performed. Michael Schiavo plans to have his wife's body cremated, the ashes brought to Pennsylvania. The Schindlers wanted their daughter buried in Florida. They held a memorial service in her honor last night. Terri Schiavo's body is expected to be released to her husband later today.
Prosecutors will recommend former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger receive a $10,000 fine and lose his security clearance for three years. Berger is expected to plead guilty today to a misdemeanor charge of removing classified documents from the National Archives. At issue, files about the government's anti-terror efforts leading up to the September 11th attacks. Sources familiar with the agreement say the plea will keep Berger from doing any jailtime.
And the Washington Monument back open to the public after being under construction for almost a year. The monument was shutdown last September for a $15 million security upgrade. The security improvements include vehicle barriers and a new lighting system. So nice for people going to the nation's capital.
COSTELLO: Yes, but more security measures are going to be put in to place at the Jefferson Memorial and the Lincoln Memorial. So the construction's not over on yet the Mall.
WALLACE: Exactly. Much more on the way.
COSTELLO: Thanks.
HEMMER: More on the breaking news out of the Vatican in a moment mere. Once again, the health of Pope John Paul II has taken a turn for the worse. Our expanded coverage here on AMERICAN MORNING continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: A live look at Vatican this morning. Welcome back to this expanded edition of AMERICAN MORNING. We just got word that the Vatican will issue a new statement on the pope's health in just about 10 minutes. As you know, we haven't heard anything from the Vatican since 5:30 Eastern this morning, when you heard that very emotional press conference given by the pope's spokesman -- tears in his eyes -- saying the pope was in grave condition, but he was serene and lucid.
HEMMER: And saying I've never seen him in this condition before, and that spans 26 years. If you're just joining us, we want to get back to Dr. Sanjay Gupta now at the CNN Center and talk about the medical side of the pope and his condition. We know now for two months he has been in and out of the hospital twice. We also know going back years, he suffered from Parkinson's. Here is a man who was shot in St. Peter's Square back in 1981, recovered from that, but so many think, Sanjay, when you reflect back, oh, years, since that incident, that it truly did some damage to his health in terms of his long-term condition.
We have gone over, Sanjay, a number of these issues throughout the morning here. But in the event that some viewers are just joining us, I want to talk about some of the statements that have come out of the Vatican, and help you explain them to us.
Septic shock -- what is that?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Septic shock basically means when an infection somewhere in the body, in this case in the urinary tract, has left that part of the body and gotten into the bloodstream. Now that bacteria in the bloodstream can be very problematic for an individual it. It causes the blood vessels to grow large and the blood pressure to fall, and subsequently low blood flow to all of the organs in the body, including the kidneys, including the liver, including the brain as well. It could be a very dangerous situation even in a healthy person -- Bill.
HEMMER: Is that different, Sanjay, from what the Vatican terms here cardiocirculatory collapse?
GUPTA: Sort of one spectrum, same spectrum, different things, when someone is in septic shock, developing septic shock, one of the problems that occurs is that there is cardiocirculatory collapse. And what that means, simply put, is that the heart and the blood vessels simply can't work hard enough anymore to provide enough blood flow to the body. This is a very problematic situation.
If a person was in an intensive care unit somewhere in the hospital, they'd be getting medication to try to increase their blood pressure. They might be getting fluids to try and increase the amount of fluid that they have in their body as well, and they would certainly be receiving the antibiotic to try and beat the infection in the first place -- Bill.
HEMMER: He has crippling hip illnesses. He has knee ailments that we need to talk about, too, and perhaps the most significant, later in his life, is from Parkinson's. How has Parkinson's disease contributed or added to his current condition, can you say that?
GUPTA: You can say that, I think quite definitively. Several of these things here. He had been shot, as we know. He had significant arthritis. The Parkinson's, in addition to the arthritis, for example, really rendered him rather immobile. We've seen those images now, traveling along by vehicle, really very difficult for him to get around on his own. That actually makes it more likely for someone to develop an infection.
And, Bill, when I heard this yesterday about the high fever, I thought it was going to be pneumonia. That's one of the most common infections seen in someone with Parkinson's, with these preexisting medical conditions. In his case, it was a urinary-tract infection, but now we can say for sure, regardless of where this infection has started, it most certainly has spread now through his body. That is where the septic shock term is coming from.
Also it's worth pointing out, at the other end of the cycle, if Parkinson's sets you up for an infection, that infection can also make your Parkinson's disease much worse. He's probably having a flare-up of his symptoms, as well as a result of infection -- Bill.
HEMMER: And on top of that, he's 84, set to be 85 on May 18th.
Sanjay thanks for that, at the CNN Center -- Carol.
GUPTA: Thank you, Bill.
COSTELLO: And hopefully we'll get more when this news conference happens in about 10 minutes from now from the Vatican. Let's go to Jim Bittermann. He's in Rome. What do you make of this, Jim?
BITTERMANN: Well, there's a couple of things that are quite striking here. For one thing, there is this mass, which is about to begin in about 10 minute as well. The idea that Navarro-Valls, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the papal spokesman, was seen leaving the Vatican press center just a few minutes ago, as he walked past the journalists, he said there would be an announcement in 10 minutes. Journalists said that he looked very grave.
So the timing here is very curious that this mass about to begin with an announcement also expected at just about the same time. It's perhaps no accident, Carol, that it may be an announcement that will set the tone for this mass -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Jim, tell us about this cardinal who will preside over this mass.
BITTERMANN: Well, Camillo Ruini is the vicar, the cardinal Vicar of Rome. That means he's in a sense, the pope's assistant in Rome. The pope is the bishop of Rome. And among his other responsibilities -- he's also the bishop of the churches of Rome. And Cardinal Ruini, of course, the pope can't take care of the churches of Rome, you know all by himself, and the person in the position of Cardinal Ruini is the Vicar of Rome, who does take care of the churches and keeps an eye on the churches of Rome.
Where this mass is going to be held tonight is also significant because it's at the St. John Lateran Church. It's across the city from the St. Peter's. And basically they've always sort of called it the pope's second church in Rome, because it's a huge church. It's also the site -- right next door to the church is the Lateran Palace. And this is one of three papal palaces, the first being the Apostolic Palace in St. Peter's Square. Then there's the Lateran Palace and then Castel Gandolfo, which is the pope's summer palace.
These three palaces, in the event of the pope's death, with go back to the church. They are in the control of the pope now. As long as the pope is alive, they're in the control in the pope. But once the pope -- if the pope's death is announced, then in fact these three palaces will be immediately turned over to the care and keeping of the church. The Camerlengo will take charge -- this is the pope's chamberlain -- and he will take charge of not only those three palaces but also other papal documents. He'll seal the papal offices and supervise the removal of papal documents in the event of the pope's death.
So, a lot of significance to where this is being held. Also at this mass, I should say -- and we're watching some pictures here coming in now of the mass preparation about to begin -- at this mass are -- a number of political leaders have come to this mass this evening, including the Italian opposition leader and the deputy prime minister.
COSTELLO: Okay, is that unusual, Jim? I mean, it must be, for them to attend mass, what, today, Friday?
BITTERMANN: Well, yeah. This mass is unusual. I mean, the fact is that this mass wouldn't be held if the pope wasn't sick. This is expressly for the pope. The one thing is that apparently there is a special Catholic rite for sick popes. This is a way of celebrating the mass that's designed expressly for this situation, a sick pope, and that's the rite that we expect to be celebrated here at this mass in just a few minutes from now. It is not unusual for Italian political leaders to come to mass. They do it on high holidays, particularly. But this is really exceptional. I think everything about this day has been pretty exceptional.
Carol?
COSTELLO: Jim Bittermann live in Rome. We'll get back to you. Thank you.
HEMMER: Carol, as you were talking with Jim, we want to show our viewers here Vatican Television. This is -- let's put it on the screen there in a moment here. You will see a cross with a bit of a mirror reflection in it. This is the image we're getting from Vatican TV.
Now it is possible this statement that we've been talking about that should happen at any moment could come by way of this camera shot here. It's also possible that the mass that you were talking about with Jim Bittermann at the St. John Lateran Church in Rome could also come on the same signal. So we are watching this picture for any sign or any indication. And Robert Moynihan's back with us down in D.C.
Robert, try and flesh out some of the details that we're trying to fill in right now. The significance of this cross, this mass, et cetera, and the statement that again could happen in a moment.
ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, I'm very concerned. And this is a monstrance. It holds the eucharist, the consecrated host, which is the body of Christ. And for the Vatican to be displaying only that as an image on their television to me is quite significant. It's as if it were saying the pope is going to be with Christ.
And there's the Apostolic Palace in the background, and on the left side in the back is the secretary of state, that's Bernini's Colonnade.
HEMMER: Robert, if I can interrupt. Just -- I would just interject here and try and enlighten us with our viewers. You're carrying a very somber tone in your voice. Are you trying to tell us that you believe, because this image is being shown, that the pope has passed away?
MOYNIHAN: I do not know what has happened, but I know that something very serious is occurring. And the rumors are flying all around Rome that something like that has just happened. And the church is passing through a very important moment here. And...
HEMMER: Robert, if it is true, how will it be announced from Vatican City?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I think we'll get an announcement very shortly. The fact that Navarro-Valls walked by the journalists there in the press office and was very grave suggests that he's got another serious announcement to make. And I think we'll get that within a few minutes.
HEMMER: Who is the one that is -- what does tradition dictate as to who makes this announcement?
MOYNIHAN: Well, the tradition now is -- the Vatican press office hardly existed 40 years ago there. Was no Vatican press office before 1960. So it could very well be Navarro-Valls, because he is the pope's spokesman, that will announce something. And he's expected to announce something in just a few minutes.
HEMMER: Robert, as the camera goes in here on the papal residence, it's my understanding that window to the far right there in the corner, that's the bedroom for the pope. What would the other windows around that area be within the residence?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I've been on the room on the -- I've not been in the one on the far corner, but next to it is the pope's study, and there's a long table in there. And for many years, there was an icon -- one of the most precious icons to the Russian people was in there for about 11 years. It was the icon of Our Lady of Kazan. It shows the Virgin Mary and the child of Jesus, and it was just returned to Russia last summer. The pope wanted to bring the icon himself back to Russia. In fact, I always believed that he would live to be able to carry it back to Russia.
And I had the privilege once about three years ago of standing..
HEMMER: Robert, let me interrupt you a second here. Go ahead and put the shot up on the camera here. We're watching Vatican TV on the other system we have here in New York City. As it pulls out here, Robert, if you see anything that we should take note of, please speak up.
We have been watching this cross. We're awaiting mass to begin in Rome. That was scheduled to start at 7:00 p.m. local time, which by my watch, is two-and-a-half minutes from now. This is the cathedral across town, the mass at the St. John Lateran Church to be presided over by the Vicar of Rome, Camillo Ruini. And again, we anticipate the mass to begin at any time, and again, this statement from the Vatican to come out at any point as well. And as we all stand by in here in New York and really for around the world right now, waiting for any word and any sign on the condition of Pope John Paul II. It has been now six-and-a-half hours since any word has come from the Vatican.
COSTELLO: And you know, it's been an agonizing wait for pilgrims around the world. People are praying. People are arriving at churches. Special masses are being planned. So hopefully the word will come very soon. HEMMER: October 16th, 1978, he shocked the world when the College of Cardinals came out and announced that a man from southern Poland would lead the Catholic Church, one billion strong worldwide, and for the first time in 500 years it would not be an Italian. As we watch Vatican TV, let's dip in here and listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ...next to him in this moment with our love, and with the love that John Paul II for nearly 27 years has accompanied us. The mass starts at 19:00. In a few minutes, it will start. I ask all of you in Rome to pray for the Holy Father in all churches and in each family.
HEMMER: Let's continue to observe herewith the translation in Rome, but also want to pass along to you, the Associated Press is just crossing with another bulletin. It says, and I quote now, "The Vatican says the pope's condition has worsened." Whether or not we get more detail about that condition is something we're standing by and waiting for.
We have been on the air now, Carol, for the past five hours, with the expanded version here of AMERICAN MORNING, and again, waiting on the breaking news out of Rome, out of the Vatican. And as soon as that comes along, we will pass it along to you.
Time for us though to hand off to our colleagues.
COSTELLO: Wolf Blitzer is in Washington. Hello, Wolf.
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