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CNN Saturday Morning News

Special Edition: Pope John Paul II

Aired April 02, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer, live in Rome, Italy. Pope John Paul II for 84 years a symbol of life to so many around the world. Now struggling to hang on. Could these be now his final moments?
This is a special edition of CNN's AMERICAN MORNING, live, once again, in Rome, Italy.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York and Bill Hemmer in Rome.

HEMMER: Once again, welcome, everybody. Just a minute past 5:00 in the afternoon here in Rome, Italy, as we continue to stand by and wait now for an update on the pope's condition.

The last word we were given came from the Vatican saying this... "There has been no change in the pope's condition." That may or may not change, though, however. In about 30 minutes, or at least some point during this hour, we do expect a statement from the Vatican that will update us on his condition.

And as we wait here, the crowds continue to grow. Police here in Rome now say well over 30,000 people have assembled in the Square of St. Peter's, the areas behind me, and also on the sidewalks and the streets around Rome, Italy, where we have assembled our location here. The crowds continue to build and grow.

And again, as we wait for the latest on the news, I want to bring in Soledad again. Soledad O'Brien back in New York City.

And good morning there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, Bill, as well. In fact, as we do wait for that update on the pope's health, and, as you say, coming in within a half an hour or so, let's look back.

Earlier, we heard from the Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro- Valls announcing that the pope is "in a compromised state of consciousness." The Vatican saying that the pope's heart and breathing unchanged since Friday, when low blood flow and shallow breathing were reported.

Also, the pope is said to be able to open and close his eyes. And when he is spoken to, he is said to respond by opening his eyes. For a second day, the Vatican announcing a series of papal appointments, including a Spanish bishop, two ambassadors as well. We're going to have much more from New York as we go along this morning.

Carol Costello is joining me as well. But let's get right back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.

Again, waiting on the president. We will get his radio address in a matter of moments. So when that happens out of Washington, we'll get you there.

In the meantime, let's bring in our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, who has been with me throughout the afternoon here.

And do you see any significance here? The crowds are truly growing in front of us.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Definitely, absolutely. Large crowds here. I mean, this is, you know, by far the largest crowd we've seen in Rome here in recent weekends.

Of course this is an important tourist site. But I've met many, many people here who have been coming here specifically because they know the pope is sick and they want to be here to pay their last respects.

HEMMER: And you know the news. In about 30 minutes or so, or at some point during the hour, we will get an update from the Vatican. And we're all waiting now to see, A, how specific they will be, and B, has his condition changed.

VINCI: Well, they have been quite forthcoming in recent days about the pope's condition. They're not saying much, but they're saying all they can really say.

And right now, really we want to find out the level of his state of consciousness that he has been -- that the Vatican spokesman told us about this morning. We want to know if this is further (UNINTELLIGIBLE) or not.

HEMMER: The other thing that was quite critical I thought from the earlier statement, there's no talk of a coma. However, they did say that mass was celebrated in his presence. I think the wording there is critical.

VINCI: Very important, because when the pope -- the pope's aide, which his old friend, Archbishop Stanislav Dziwisz, celebrates a mass for the pope, the pope concelebrates the mass, meaning he's participating actively. This is a mass that was actually celebrated in the presence of the pope, which meant that the pope did not actually participate in it, which means that his condition is so precarious right now that he can't even participate in the mass himself.

HEMMER: Alessio, thanks for that here in Rome.

Waiting on the statement. We'll get it to you when it happens. Back to New York now and Soledad. O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

In his radio address this morning, President Bush is expected to speak about the pope's failing health. Let's get right to Dana Bash. She is at the White House for us this morning.

Hey, Dana. Good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And we are told this morning that the president was up early in the Oval Office, getting some updates from his senior staff, watching the news report, essentially watching and waiting, along with the rest of us, as to what the condition of the pope is. And certainly, U.S. officials have some -- some officials at the Holy Sea, they are in touch with the Vatican, all coming back to Mr. Bush.

And now the vice president was here this morning as well. Very active here, as you said.

Mr. Bush actually taped part of his radio address late this morning about the pope. He is expected very shortly to extend his prayers, thoughts and wishes to the pope. And as I said, we expect to hear that from the president very shortly.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States, George W. Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning.

Before I begin today, I would like to say a word about Pope John Paul II. His holiness is a faithful servant of god and a champion of human dignity and freedom. He is an inspiration to us all. Laura and I join millions of Americans and so many around the world who are praying for the holy father.

This week the members of the independent commission looking into America's intelligence capabilities presented their report...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BASH: Now Soledad, as I mentioned, you could tell there the president taped the beginning of that radio address just recently to extend his thoughts and prayers on behalf of the American people to the pope. And this is a president, certainly, who has met with the pope, like four presidents before him, five all together.

He's met with him three times. And they have a lot of similarities, and a lot of -- they're in sync on a lot of issues, particularly on social issues like abortion.

But just like his predecessors, this is a pope who is not shy about lecturing this president about things that he was not happy about. For example, the Iraq war. Most recently, in June, at the Vatican, the pope made it very clear he was not happy about that war. And also, in private, told the president that he was not happy about the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison.

And one thing I should mention to you, Soledad, is that we do expect, although they're not saying it publicly at this point because they say it's inappropriate, we do expect the president to go to the pope's funeral. And that would be significant, because we can't find any evidence of any U.S. president attending a papal funeral -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right. Dana Bash at the White House this morning. And, of course, Dana, as we've been mentioning all morning, we're expecting in the next 30 minutes or so an update on the pope's condition from the Vatican.

Time to check the headlines now. Tony Harris is at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Hey, Tony. Good morning.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning, everyone.

"Now in the News," an Australian Navy helicopter has crashed in Indonesia, killing nine of the 11 people aboard. The chopper was working earthquake relief when it went down off the Indonesian island of Nias five days after the devastating quake. The death toll is expected to rise when researchers reach isolated parts of the island cut off by landslides.

Meanwhile, rescuers searching the earthquake rubble pulled a man from beneath his demolished home alive. He had been there for five days.

The FBI says it found bomb-making materials at the Kansas home of Oklahoma City bombing co-conspirator Terry Nichols yesterday. The bureau says blasting caps and other bomb-making equipment was buried in a crawl space. Agents went back to the home on a tip. They may have missed evidence during previous searches.

Neil Young is recuperating at a New York hospital from surgery for a brain aneurysm. It was discovered when Young sought treatment for blurry vision. The 59-year-old rocker is expected to be released in just a few days, and doctors expect a full recovery.

For most Americans and much of the world, it is time to spring forward. That means you need to set all of your clocks and watches ahead one hour by 2:00 a.m. Sunday. Daylight savings time ends the last Sunday in October.

Soledad, back to you.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks. Well, Ken Woodward is a contributing editor to "Newsweek." He's been the religion editor there for nearly 40 years. He's our guest this morning.

Good morning. Nice to see you.

KEN WOODWARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Good morning.

O'BRIEN: When you hear about these developments coming out of the Vatican, I'm curious, as having spent 40 years as a religion editor, a good portion of that time specifically covering Pope John Paul II, what's your reaction?

WOODWARD: Well, you know, I keep going back to that picture in the window where he's trying to speak and his mouth is open. And it's as if he's trapped behind glass and he can't communicate.

This is a man who could communicate in it seems like dozens of languages. This is a man that's traveled as no man did. Even Billy Graham hasn't evangelized so many countries as this man has. And suddenly he's trapped in this body.

So I keep thinking about him and what's it like to be trapped there. But also, you know, as a -- he's a deeply spiritual person -- what kind of prayers he's saying now.

O'BRIEN: It's interesting to hear people talk about the pope, who wrote and talked so much about human suffering, and have kind of brought it back around to his time now. The reports have been that he turned down pain medication so that he could sort of feel the very end. And if you believe the Vatican, which is usually not so forthcoming, the end is very, very near.

WOODWARD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What stands out to you the most about this pope's legacy?

WOODWARD: He was an evangelist. That's the amazing thing. That accounts for his trips.

O'BRIEN: 115 plus.

WOODWARD: It accounts -- I mean, he's tireless. But it also accounts for what he was saying.

He talked about evangelizing cultures through his encyclicals, especially the early ones, which were saying to the Marxists, from his home country, no, you must identify the dignity of the worker and not just his work. So I think -- and he tried to change minds. And he made that a form of evangelization. First words out of his mouth practically was Christ, Christ is the answer, when he stepped up on the balcony after he had just been elected.

O'BRIEN: Do you think there is a front-runner? I know it doesn't really work like that, but it kind of does, too. Is there a front-runner to be the next pope?

WOODWARD: I don't think so. You know, I've seen several of these. Everybody knew that Cardinal Montini was the front-runner, and he became Paul VI, which is basically the predecessor of this pope. Nobody was looking in this pope's direction. I think the field is entirely open at this point.

O'BRIEN: Do you think the goal is to choose a pope who is similar to the pope that is now with us, John Paul II, or do you think the goal is to go a completely different direction?

WOODWARD: Well, I think -- I think the rule historically has tended to be, find somebody different and say he's in the mold, and then let him be his own man. I think it's -- you know, you sort of go in one direction with one man. And it doesn't mean you repudiate that direction, but not even this pope can do everything. Somebody different.

O'BRIEN: He appointed all but three cardinals who will be the ones who eventually elect the next pope. Does that mean, to a large degree, that this pope will have a great hand in choosing his successor?

WOODWARD: No.

O'BRIEN: Really? Why not?

WOODWARD: The simple answer is, no. No, I think when they get in there, they've got to assess the needs of the Church.

Let's assume that the previous pope, this one, had brought the Church in a particular direction in a robust way, but he neglected these other things. They're going to look at somebody who can address the things that this pope did not address.

O'BRIEN: Ken Woodward of "Newsweek," contributing editor to "Newsweek." It's nice to see you. Religion editor as well for 40 years. It's nice to have you. Thanks for being our guest.

WOODWARD: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate it.

We are awaiting an update on the pope's health, as we've been mentioning all morning. We're expecting it within the next half-hour or so. We've got much more from New York and Rome right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back to Rome, Italy. The day is growing longer here. And it could be at any moment when we get the latest word and the latest statement from the Vatican regarding the pope's condition. We expect that latest word, anyway, to come about 5:30 p.m. local time, which is about 15 minutes away here in Italy, about 10:30 local time back in New York and up and down the East Coast. At that point, we should be able to get a better understanding to see whether or not the condition has changed from the update we received earlier today.

In a moment here in Rome, we're going to talk with Father Brian Johnstone. He's a theologian. We're going to talk about the whole issue of consciousness and what if this pope were to fall in a state similar to a coma, how would the Church respond and react.

As far as we can tell, based on the entire history of this Church, that has never been the case for a pope and his successor. So we'll get to the father in a moment here in Rome.

Back to New York now first. Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Well, Pope John Paul II made more than 100 foreign trips during his papacy, including several to the United States. In 1999, he led the biggest indoor mass in U.S. history, when more than 100,000 people gathered in St. Louis, Missouri.

Joining us this morning, Monsignor William Kerr. He's the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington.

It's nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us this morning.

MONSIGNOR WILLIAM KERR, POPE JOHN PAUL II CULTURAL CENTER: Happy to be here, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: How do you expect the Church will change with the death -- the impending death, it's fair to say, I think, when you listen to reports coming out of the Vatican, of the pope?

KERR: Well, Soledad, someone asked me recently whether the next pope would be able to fill the shoes of this pope. And the implication, of course, was this was an extraordinary pontificate, which, of course, it was.

My response is, well, it won't be filling the shoes. They'll be different shoes because it will be a different person.

And I think the grace of god has led different people to lead the Church in different directions. And I think the next pope will have his own vision and bring that vision to the Church. And we will go forward with that vision.

O'BRIEN: A different direction you say. What direction do you think the Church needs to head?

KERR: Well, I'm not sure when I say a different direction that I mean we need to change directions as such. It may be a nuanced change. It may be a dramatic change.

I think that in the last 25 years, the Church has changed direction, if you will, in some ways as far as the evangelization outreach is concerned. The basic doctrines, of course, have remained constant and consistent. But I think the new pope will have to address some issues that this pope was unable to fully address.

And I think that has a lot to do with the emerging populations and problems of Africa, the challenges of Asia, Latin America's maturity and becoming a very pivotal player in the world. These are places where there are large Catholic populations. And there are places where the challenges of the future must be certainly dealt with.

And I think the new pope is going to have to bring the wisdom of the faith to the critical decisions in those regions of the world and make the wisdom of the faith credible. And that will be a challenge.

O'BRIEN: You talk about geographic, or geographical challenges. What about sort of scientific challenges, sort of the area where science and faith kind of meet and not always happily? For example, stem cell research, things that we can do today in science that really other previous popes hadn't even had to think about, because we were not able to do them as people.

What kind of an impact do you think that has?

KERR: Well, Soledad, that's exactly what I'm saying. I think that as we face those -- and they are among the challenges that humanity faces, the advance of technology, the advance of science. And I think that we must be very, very conscious of the fact that we cannot let technology completely run away from ethics and from morality.

I think that when we talk about evangelizing the culture, which, of course, this pope has talked about a great deal, we must insert into the deliberations that are going on, you know, what are the ethical implications, what are the moral implications. Not everybody will agree on those. But I think the next pope will have to insert those into the consciousness of people and stimulate debate.

There will be -- perhaps what we think are revolutionary advances now will seem rather tame in five or 10 years, as science and technology, you know, gallops forward. But I think at no time can humanity overlook the ethical and the moral implications of its progress.

O'BRIEN: We're taking a look at Vatican City, which is now filling up with tourists, Monsignor, and pilgrims who have come out, obviously, to pay their last respects to Pope John Paul II, who is in dire, dire shape, as reports from the Vatican come to us. Give me a sense of the American church and the state of the American Catholic Church.

KERR: Well, the American Catholic Church is in some ways on the very frontier of the advances in science and technology. It's the very frontier of pop culture, if I may use that expression, a culture that permeates the entire world. And I think the American church has many, many different cultures coming together into what may be a single culture. But there are many voices.

And I think that we are a church that is in some ways divided. We, in America, in the United States, we are struggling and we are searching. And I think that we will be looking for new leadership. And there are a number of questions that people within the United States are wrestling with right now that new leadership in the church, I'm sure, will address.

O'BRIEN: Monsignor William Kerr is the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center joining us this morning. Thank you very much for your time.

KERR: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, the world watches and waits for word on Pope John Paul II. We're going to return with more of our special extended coverage of AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. You're taking a live look just a moment ago there at St. Peter's Square, where you can see tens of thousands of pilgrims and tourists have now come into the area over the last several hours. We are expecting an update on the pope's condition to come to us shortly. That's the word from the Vatican this morning.

In those three hours, though, thousands standing by to find out there in St. Peter's Square the condition of the pope. And also millions of others around the world.

Let's take a look now, in fact, at how other people in other countries are responding to the pope's health care crisis. Carol Costello has been checking out some reaction around the world.

Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.

Throughout the Catholic faith and beyond, churches and communities are offering prayers for the ailing pontiff. In Australia, Roman Catholics gathered in Sydney and other cities for masses as news of the pope's relapse swept the country. Australian Prime Minister John Howard said the pope will be remembered as a freedom fighter against communism and as a great Christian leader.

In the Indian city of Calcutta, nuns of the Sisters of the Missionaries of Charity offered prayers for the pope. The group was founded by Mother Teresa, who was beatified by the pope in 2003.

Across the United States, Catholics are holding vigils and masses. CNN's Peter Viles is at Our Lady of the Bright Mount Catholic Church in Los Angeles, the nation's largest Catholic archdiocese. Good morning.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Morning is breaking here on the West Coast. And it is a beautiful day. Three-and-a-half million Catholics in the Los Angeles area waking to a beautiful spring day and to the news that you're bringing them, that the pope is clinging to life in Rome.

Now, the spiritual leader of the church here in Los Angeles, Cardinal Mahony, has left the city. He has gone to Rome to arrive in Rome Saturday night. Before he left, however, he celebrated two masses for the pope. He also spoke personally that these, he said, are difficult moments for him personally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES: It is a very difficult moment for me personally, as it is for all of us, because we have two different emotions at work. On the one hand, we rejoice in a magnificent papacy that accomplished so much, more than anyone could have imagined.

At the same time, we're losing him. And so we feel that that loss, that separation.

But at the same time, he is going to obtain the reward towards which we are all moving. And that is eternal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: Just a word about where we are. This is the Our Lady of Bright Mount Church. It is a Polish church. And this pope, before he was a world -- before he was pope, rather, had visited this church in 1976, said mass here when he was the cardinal of Krakow.

He was greeted here as a hero. Still remembered as a hero almost 30 years later. It's a memory that this parish on this day really cherishes.

COSTELLO: Peter Viles live in Los Angeles this morning. Thank you.

And, of course, Cardinal Egan here in New York saddened, too, by the pope's condition, saying it feels as if he's going to lose a father.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I think a pretty familiar refrain we're hearing from lots of our reports around the country and around the globe.

Carol, thanks.

A reminder now. We're awaiting that update from the Vatican on the pope's health. We're expecting it shortly. We're standing by for that.

You're watching a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. We're live from New York and from Rome. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: 10:30 in New York City, 5:30 in the evening here in Rome in Vatican City. We are waiting now at any moment for the latest word on the pope's condition. We anticipate a statement from the Vatican to come out at any point.

It was about six hours ago the last time we were given word of his condition. During that time, about 11:30 a.m. local time, nothing has changed from last night. That was the word from a Vatican spokesperson.

Also, he had mass celebrated in his presence, which has left a lot to the imagination as to his care and condition, whether or not he was alert or whether or not hew as active in any way during that mass in his papal residency. At one time they say his eyes are open, looks to be resting. But there was no talk of a coma.

Again, all those facts coming out about six hours ago from the Vatican. And any moment right now we should get the latest from the Vatican.

As we wait on that now, let's talk with Father Brian Johnstone. He's a moral theologian with the with the Alphonsian Academy. And he is my guest now here just steps away from Vatican City.

And good evening to you.

FATHER BRIAN JOHNSTONE, MORAL THEOLOGIAN, ALPHONSIAN ACADEMY: Good evening.

HEMMER: If this pope is incapacitated, is put into a coma, given his current condition, what does Church law dictate as to what happens for succession?

JOHNSTONE: If the pope should fall into a coma, and if that coma continues for some considerable time, there could be quite a serious problem for the Church, as there is no specific Canon Law which covers that situation.

HEMMER: Over 2,000 years, this never happened this way before?

JOHNSTONE: Well, the problem hasn't arisen before because, in the past, medicine was not capable of prolonging life as it is now. So there never was an instance where a pope continued for a long -- in a comatose situation.

There have been instances where a long time ago a pope was psychologically incapacitated. But there's been no example of someone in a coma. This is something which happens in a modern medical environment.

There are two possibilities. One is that the pope might fall into a coma, which would then continue for some considerable time. From what I'm hearing from the medical reports, that is not envisaged. The pope's health seems to be an inevitable progress of rather rapid decline.

HEMMER: So you're suggesting that this would not even be a possibility worth considering?

JOHNSTONE: Well, it doesn't seem, at least from the way I understand the reports, that there's a real possibility of the pope entering a coma and staying in a comatose state, but maintaining some kind of viable life for some time.

From what I hear the people saying, he's already entered into a process which is going to bring about death in a relatively short period of time. Now, if it should happen, however, that the pope does enter into a coma, and that state continues, and if his life had to be maintained, for example, by supply, nutrition and hydration, or by a respirator, then there would be quite difficult ethical problems and also legal problems.

HEMMER: Is there not, though, the possibility that exists that this pope has talked about that condition and perhaps laid out steps that could be taken for the Church to continue without him?

JOHNSTONE: Well, there have been reports that the pope has already written a letter specifying what should happen. Others have denied that such a letter exists. I personally just don't know.

Lawyers have discussed the issue quite independently of the pope. This has got nothing to do with what the pope has said or thought or represented. Because there is no specific Canon Law covering the pope in a comatose situation, it has been suggested that before this situation arose the pope would delegate somebody, a close friend or a trusted coworker, who would have the responsibility of declaring when the pope actually is in a coma and is no longer able to communicate. And then there would have to be an arrangement made with the assistance of the pope as to how the Church should carry on in that situation.

HEMMER: And father, you know all too well for 26 years the way he has preached about life.

JOHNSTONE: Yes.

HEMMER: Whether it's a human embryo, or whether it's someone suffering at the age of 100 and frail and in a nursing home at some point, somewhere in this world. Knowing that his position on suffering has been detailed so well and so publicly, and if a feeding tube were to be a possibility...

JOHNSTONE: Well, let's just suppose -- as I said, I don't think this is going to happen -- but let's suppose it did, that the pope fell into a coma and was maintained then on a feeding tube for some considerable time. What would be the position?

The position of the Church on these issues was laid out quite recently by the pope in March last year when he made a statement which was very widely defused. He took the position that, first of all, persons in such a state are to be considered as human persons, obviously. They are not vegetables. They have maintained their dignity.

With regard to the obligation and to continue feeding a person, what he said in that document was that such feeding should be considered a natural act. It's not just any sort of medical treatment. And therefore, should be in principle continued. But he did say in principle.

Now, it's possible that a person can reach a moment when they're being fed by a feeding tube, when physically they're simply no longer capable of taking any more nourishment. If that point arises, then it can be stopped.

HEMMER: I just have another minute to talk about this. And the opinions you're offering here about him being past that point of the feeding tube, is that based on what the Vatican is saying publicly, or is that based on private conversations you're having?

JOHNSTONE: This is jus t-- I'm just basing myself on what I have heard being said publicly. So I am not a medical doctor, I don't know.

But when we compare the pope's situation, which is a very different situation of Terri Schiavo, for example, what I'm in effect saying is that I can't foresee from what I've heard, at least from my understanding of what I've heard, that there's any real possibility of the pope getting in a situation like that...

HEMMER: Understood.

JOHNSTONE: ... where he would be maintained for a considerable time. From what has been said, that doesn't seem likely to me at all.

HEMMER: Thank you, father.

JOHNSTONE: But it's still a possibility.

HEMMER: I apologize for interrupting you.

JOHNSTONE: No problem at all.

HEMMER: Father Johnstone in Rome.

Let's get back to New York and Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Bill, thanks.

And we should mention once again that we are expecting an announcement from the Vatican on the pope's condition any moment, really. We're expecting that momentarily. We'll bring that to you when it happens.

Well, my very next guest has known the pope since 1976. That is before he assumed the papacy. Monsignor Lorenzo Albacete is a professor of theology at St. Joseph's Seminary here in New York. He's also a columnist with "New York Times" magazine.

Nice to see you. Thanks for chatting with us.

MONSIGNOR LORENZO ALBACETE, PROFESSOR, ST. JOSEPH'S SEMINARY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You have a story about how you told the pope not long ago that you would be commenting now...

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... in your position on his health.

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: And ultimately, probably be reporting on his death.

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What was his response to you?

ALBACETE: Well, I just kind of felt guilty, because I had signed an agreement at that time to do just this. And I told him that, "Well, look, I do that, at least there will be someone who will say nice things about you." And he looked with this nasty look that he had, you know, and said, "Well, what really bothers me is how do they know that I am dying first." And I said, "Well, let's put it this way, if I die first, you go on CNN and say nice things."

So obviously, he had no problem with this. And that's why I'm here. I'm thinking of that.

O'BRIEN: What do you think is his legacy, is the most important aspect of what he has left behind, now, as we look to, frankly, his death as the Vatican points out, only dire news on his condition?

ALBACETE: I think hess legacy is, whatever it is that has not been said to be his legacy since we've been covering this story. That's to say, it's always so surprising.

Looking back in 10 years, we may see an entirely different picture. However, you've got to say something, I've got to say something. I would say his legacy has been to return the missionary spirit to the Church, to try to give it enough confidence that it has something that the world really needs, and to find out how to make the offer in today's world.

O'BRIEN: One reason, it seems to me, that that missionary spirit was so successful was that the pope has this incredible ability to leverage the media as well.

ALBACETE: Oh, yes, yes.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about his trip to Cuba.

ALBACETE: He knows the act.

O'BRIEN: Yes, he does. And... ALBACETE: That, unfortunately, from the media perspective, was problematic, because right in the midst of it, the Monica Lewinsky scandal occurred. And...

O'BRIEN: Was it a failure? There were huge expectations for that trip. There was an expectation that...

ALBACETE: Everybody was there. All the big names, including you. So...

O'BRIEN: But there was an expectation that the pope would go and sort of maybe meet with Fidel Castro and talk him out of the road that Cuba was on.

ALBACETE: No, no. There was not that expectation. Not in the Vatican.

O'BRIEN: People felt that something very big -- there was a feeling in the air that something very big was going to happen.

ALBACETE: Well, I know. And it was dramatic enough.

I'll never forget the ride into Havana. There was not a sign of a government anywhere. It's as if they had left the city.

And the pope was triumphantly -- there were all these messages, you see. What I meant, it was very few people could see it because the attention of the media went elsewhere. Understandably, I imagine.

But see, the pope, I don't think, thought of these results. He believed that he wanted to be there because he had to be there.

I don't know -- this is going to sound strange. He had to physically be there.

O'BRIEN: All of his -- all of his...

ALBACETE: It could not be messages, documents or agreements by the phone. He had to be there. This is the style of the dramatist, but also the style of Christianity itself.

O'BRIEN: Can a less dramatic, or less dynamic, let's say, pope, maybe someone who doesn't speak eight languages and who isn't going to have a schedule that encompasses 115 countries...

ALBACETE: Yes. I wonder who's taking over his frequent flier points.

O'BRIEN: ... can he be as successful?

ALBACETE: Sure. All he has to do is be authentic to the point of departure, which is amazing to say that the pope is a Christian, which is the presence of Christ. Give witness to it. But give physical witness to it, don't just talk about it.

Just be there the way you look, the way you touch people. Oh, yes, definitely. There's no problem.

O'BRIEN: Monsignor Albacete, the professor of theology at St. Joseph's Seminary. Nice to see you again. Thanks.

ALBACETE: Nice to see you. Bye-bye.

O'BRIEN: Let's head back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.

Watching Vatican television right now, awaiting the statement. About 15 minutes ago, we thought it would come in paper form. Now it appears to be an on-camera statement. Perhaps the Vatican spokesperson will appear at that point, Joaquin Navarro-Valls. As soon as that happens, we are waiting now for it to begin.

Break here. Back in a moment. Live in Rome right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The crowds are growing by the hour. About 60 minutes ago, police here in Rome say well over 30,000 have now gathered in St. Peter's Square. They're all over the place here throughout the city of Rome, waiting now, like we are, for the latest word, the latest statement from the Vatican. It could happen at any moment.

As we monitor Vatican TV, we await the spokesperson to come out and address the media here in Rome, and the one billion Catholics waiting around the world for the latest condition on the pope.

We'll be back in a moment here in Rome. Now, New York again and Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's head now to Tony. He's going to update us on the news stories that are making headlines this morning.

Tony, good morning again.

HARRIS: Hello, Soledad. And hello, everyone.

"Now in the News," a car bomb exploded today in central Iraq, killing five people, including four police officers. Police believe the bomb was in a taxi parked near a police station south of Baquba. And they say it was likely detonated by a remote control device.

Civilian truckers hauling U.S. cargo are killed in Afghanistan. Afghan officials say suspected Taliban gunmen opened fire on the truckers when they crossed the Pakistani border south of Kandahar. The drivers were two Pakistanis and one Afghan. Officials say they were carrying vehicles to the U.S. military in southern Afghanistan.

Terri Schiavo's autopsy is finished, but it will be several weeks before the results are known. Her husband, Michael, plans to cremate the body and bury the ashes at an unspecified family plot in Pennsylvania. But a court has ordered him to disclose that location to his wife's parents. The Los Angeles hotel where Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1968 has been saved from the wrecking ball, at least for now. The Los Angeles school district wants to build new schools on the site of the long-closed Ambassador Hotel. Five of Kennedy's nine surviving children say the hotel should be torn down.

Let's send you back now to Rome and Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: All right, Tony. Thank you.

About six hours ago now, the last statement we got from the Vatican talked about the pope straining his voice to speak earlier today. And the words came out something similar to this, the Vatican says... "You come to me, and for this I thank you."

Again, a strained voice. Perhaps nothing more than a whisper from the pope earlier today. And again, there's been no talk of a coma, but there was an indication early today at daybreak, right around 7:30 a.m. local time here, when the Vatican talked about this compromising moment they found the pope.

Does that mean perhaps he lost consciousness for a moment or was unaware? Perhaps we'll get a better clarification in a moment here as we wait for the spokesperson to come out on Vatican television and give us the statement.

We have been waiting for this now for just about six hours. We thought we would get it 45 minutes ago. Perhaps there's been some sort of delay. But again, just before 6:00 local time in the evening here in Rome. And when that statement comes out, we will know whether or not there has been any change in the current condition of the pope.

And we will not leave it for long. Back to Rome in a moment here.

But again, here's Soledad in New York.

O'BRIEN: Thanks a lot, Bill.

Let's get right to national correspondent Gary Tuchman. He has been covering the reaction of Catholics in Boston to the pope's declining health.

Good morning, Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, good morning to you.

It is very cold and rainy here in Boston, just like the weather 25.5 years ago on October 1, 1979, when Pope John Paul II made his first and only visit to Boston as pope. It was his first American visit, though, as pontiff.

And he stopped inside this church, the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. And that's where a mass was held this morning to pray for Pope John Paul II. It's a regularly scheduled mass that takes place every morning, Monday through Saturday, at 9:00.

But inside, they offered their prayers for the pontiff. And the priest who was presiding today told the parishioners, "Did you know that tomorrow is Divine Mercy Sunday?"

Now, many of you, including Catholics, might not know about Divine Mercy Sunday. But it was started in Poland about 50 years ago, and basically it's an extra special Sunday, the Sunday after Easter Sunday.

And the priest then told the parishioners, "I want everyone to raise your hands if you would not be surprised if the pope would pass away tomorrow, because it's such a special Sunday." And everyone raised their hands, indicating they would not be surprised if Pope John Paul II passed away tomorrow.

Now, we should tell you, inside that mass today was a Bostonian who used to live in Poland. He went to university, at the Catholic University of Lublin. Lublin is a city in eastern Poland. And back in 1976, two years before Pope John Paul II became the pontiff, he was a guest lecturer at that university.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ANISKYWSKI, PARISHIONER: He was a visiting pontiff at the Catholic University. So generally, you know, he was a sportsman during the wintertime. He used to come into the class with his skis, you know, on the side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pope with the skis?

ANISKYWSKI: That's right. And he said to us, "Well, listen, now we're just going to talk about how to ski." And, you know, then he started his lecture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: It's easy for us to forget, even those of us who are old enough to remember the pope when he started his pontificate, that he used to ski when he was a pope. And it's just a reminder that all of us regular people, or popes, age.

Back to you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And those are some pretty remarkable pictures, the rare photos or videotape of the pope skiing that we have seen. Gary Tuchman for us in Boston this morning. Gary, thanks for that.

Well, John Paul II reached out to thousands of people in the 100- plus countries that he visited as pope. And Now many of those people and others around the world are praying for him.

Carol Costello back with more on this.

Good morning again.

COSTELLO: Oh, they certainly are praying for him. Just a couple of examples for you.

At the Cologne Cathedral in Germany, 500 people turned out for a special prayer service for the gravely ill pope. Bishop Rineard Marx (ph) led the prayers and asked followers to show solidarity with the pope in the final hours of his pontificate.

In Jerusalem, priests and seminarians said special prayers at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. At the entrance, a Palestinian Christian said, "We pray for the soul of him whom the Palestinian people love and appreciate."

Here in the United States, and in Italy, reflections on Pope John Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sad. My heart's very heavy. It's the end of an era.

I'm a product of Vatican II. He brought Catholicism to young people, made it accessible. And it's just very sad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm very sorry for what is going on, a sign that we cannot forget. He will always be in us. We are very touched by what's happening. We hope that he could continue to live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Back in Germany, Bishop Karl Juston (ph) summed it up this way. He said, "We are experiencing the death of a person who obviously means something to many people."

O'BRIEN: Really an understatement, to a large degree. Many people, not only Catholics -- I mean, what we've heard from those spiritual leaders who are not Catholic is the degree to which Pope John Paul II touched them and their parishioners, their flock with a message of just humanity.

COSTELLO: And I think one of the reasons why is because he didn't put his finger in the wind to see which way it was blowing before he came out with his opinion. He had a very strong moral center. And he never varied from that. Whether you agreed with him or not, you respected him because he just never varied.

O'BRIEN: And I think also just sort of the sense of human dignity as a platform for many people. That was hard to disagree with.

Carol, thanks. We'll check in with you again.

Well, Roman Catholic leaders have been flocking to the Vatican and to the pope's bedside. The governor of Vatican City visited the pontiff on Friday. Cardinal Edmund Szoka says the pope showed some signs of life during his visit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL EDMUND SZOKA, GOVERNOR OF VATICAN CITY: The pope was completely conscious and completely alert. He couldn't speak, but when he saw me with his eyes, and bowing his head, I knew he immediately recognized me and was trying to greet me.

So I knelt down alongside of him by the bed, and I kissed his hand and held his hand. And I told him in Polish that I had offered mass for him and that I was praying for him.

And in the meantime, these other -- the three doctors were on the other side of the bed. So I wasn't there too long. And then Archbishop Dziwisz spoke and to me and said, "Maybe it would be better to go now."

So when I left I just -- you know, I'm a priest, so I just automatically gave him a blessing. And when I did, he blessed himself. It was a very moving moment.

He was -- as I say, he was perfectly conscious and perfectly alert. I have no doubt about that. But he was having extreme difficulty breathing.

His breathing was very, very labored. And it was very sad for me to see him that way. It must have been terrible suffering to have to keep sort of gasping for breath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: That's the governor of Vatican City, Cardinal Edmund Szoka, talking about his visit on Friday with Pope John Paul II.

Let's go back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, in St. Peter's Square, where the thousands have gathered there now as this day grows older, coming up on 6:00 local time here in Rome, it is very difficult when you're in that square, Soledad, not to take your eyes off the papal residency. That's that brown four-story building that sits high above St. Peter's Square, and to look on the top floor toward the corner where you know his bedroom has been located. His other offices and his study is there.

It's hard to take your eyes off of those windows when you're in there. And it's so true for the pilgrims who have come here as well.

We talked with a couple men from Rome. They were businessmen and Italian, a bit of broken English we were speaking earlier today.

They were staring up at these windows and just saying, "We're just looking and waiting for news." And they went on to say something that we have heard so often, "We are dear friends of the pope." Again, that word "friend" coming back into the picture here in Rome, Italy.

Talked with an American nun, too, and she was quite taken. And again, I mentioned this earlier today. When you ask people here what this man meant to you and why they're here and what the feeling they have here, there is normally a pause, a small time for reflection, and then they continue to tell you their opinion.

And what she said was, "It's a time of sorrow." And she continues -- I was writing down -- she was making sure I got her words exactly right -- "A loss of his great life but a feeling of appreciation." She says, "A feeling of hope and of courage for a man who tried to bring people together as children of god."

And so many throughout the Church will tell you that he was a father figure for children around the world. And throughout his 26- year papacy, wherever he was on the planet, he always reached out to children. It was clear he had this connection to the young people of this world, and wanted to relay to him his own message, his own experience and his own reputation that he has carried throughout his 84-year life here, and 26 years as leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

We're awaiting for news now. Will the news be any different from earlier today? We'll get it to you when the statement comes out from the Vatican here live in Rome as we continue on this special edition of AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MANN: St. Peter's Square, where thousands of people have gathered, praying, hoping and trying to communicate with their presence in that ancient place, their wishes for John Paul II, gravely ill and we're now told suffering from a high fever.

Welcome back. I'm Jonathan Mann

VERJEEY: I'm Zain Verjee. We continue now with our coverage of Pope John Paul II's declining condition. We would like also to welcome our viewers joining CNN International from North America.

MANN: We have just had, moments ago, a statement from the Vatican about the pope's condition. It was very short, but for people reading it closely, it may speak volumes. We go now to CNN's Jim Bittermann with the latest he's been able to learn -- Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jonathan, the statement is very short. Why don't I just read it, because it's not that long? "The clinical conditions of the Holy Father remain very serious. In the late morning, a high fever developed. When addressed by members of his household, he responds correctly."

That is what we have been waiting for all day, trying to see what the latest bulletin was from the papal apartment. What it indicates, I think, among other things, is that the pope is conscious, because is he responding to members of his household. The fever has got to be worrying to any medical doctor, I would think, that would be looking at this. They would be saying a man in his condition to be running a fever has got to be very serious.

But also, it should be said, that he continues in what is described as very serious condition, which is the same description we heard this morning, so that there really hasn't been a real change in his overall condition that we are -- at least from what we can detect from this very terse announcement. Without probably more detail, it really is pretty difficult and a lot of speculation, just to exactly say where this is all going.

The fact he's still responding indicates a little bit of contradiction with this morning's statement that the pope had suffered an altered state of consciousness. There had been something at about 7:30 this morning, that indicated the pope was not completely alert. This statement seems to indicate the pope is alert.

It's a little bit ambiguous, leaves us in the dark a little bit. Looks to me it's going to be another night of watching and waiting for the pilgrims and the faithful who have come to St. Peter's Square. Jon?

MANN: The pope's spokesman is a long-time aide. During one of the earlier meetings with the media giving the official account of the pope's health, he actually broke down and started to cry. Can you tell us how we got the statement this time, whether there was anything like that?

BITTERMANN: No. In fact, it was just issued as a piece of paper. He did not -- he was actually seen around the pressroom a little earlier in the afternoon, but this statement just was issued as a bulletin.

He really didn't promise much more than that earlier in the day. He said he would issue a medical bulletin. That can be anything. It's kind of ambiguous in Italian, bulletino, something where he would come down personally and say or whether it would be something issued on paper. In the end, that's what happened.

So, you know, when you talk about his personal involvement, yes, I mean, he is a long-time collaborator of the pope. Before he was the papal spokesman, he was a newspaper reporter and covered the Vatican for one of the Italian newspapers and then was hand picked by the pope to be his spokesman and went everywhere with the pope for years. I think the two are quite close. And he has had a lot of access to the pope over the years.

But I think the terseness of this is indicative that the situation is not changing. If the situation were changing to some extent, we probably would have heard it. The only change that really is reported here is the high fever, which took place late in the morning. We're, of course, late in the evening -- not late in the evening, towards the evening here. So, it's a question of whether that fever is still there and that is about the only thing that has changed from the earlier bulletin this morning. Jon?

MANN: We're learning about this from you, but there are thousands of people crowding in and overflowing in St. Peter's Square. Are they being kept up-to-date on the pope's condition in anyway or is word passing informally with people with radios and the like? BITTERMANN: Well, I think radios. And perhaps if they have their stations tuned in to CNN Radio, maybe, they can hear it. I'm not sure, Jon. All kidding aside, I think there is a fair amount of information on, for instance, the RI (ph) Channel, Italian state media channels. There's a lot of information out there if people really want to, I think most people in the square are not coming armed with radio receivers and whatnot, ready to stay up-to-date on everything.

I think, most of them are going out there because they feel this is the moment to be there, either because of their faith or because of their sense of history. They're out there, joining together with others. Whether they would actually see anything happen, well, you know, if the pope were to die, there might be visual clues.

It might be long after we had already reported a papal death. There would be visual clues, for instance, the bronze doors are shut at the top of the royal stairway that lead into the papal apartment are shut. Of course, they're shut every evening at 8 o'clock anyway. It's a little hard to distinguish what is causing them to be closed.

Also, something that has traditionally happened when a pope dies is that the large bell to the left of St. Peter's, 10-ton bell, nine feet in diameter, rings out. It has a very distinctive ring. You can hear it all across Rome. That would be another clue. But for people in the square, that might be a lot later than what we would be reporting it.

MANN: There is so much lore attached to this ancient office. Some of it is more trustworthy than other elements of it. You mentioned the doors. We have been looking our cameras have been pointed to the windows of the papal apartments. Would there be any signal there?

BITTERMANN: Well, there was back when John the XXIII died. One of the things they did to indicate his death was they lighted up the windows of the papal apartments to indicate he had passed on. Here, the windows have been lit the last two nights now. This will be probably the third night they remain lit. That could be a sign -- we're always interpreting signs from the Vatican. That could be a sign that the pope is still alive, as long as the apartments are lit.

Another sign, by the way, in the past of a papal passing has been the shutting of the papal apartment windows. If we were to see anything like that, I think that would indicate bad news coming from the Vatican -- Jon?

MANN: CNN's Jim Bittermann, at the Vatican. Thanks very much, Zain?

VERJEE: Jon, in looking up at those apartment windows, thousands of people from all over the world gathering in St. Peter's Square, looking at the lights still on in the apartment hoping to catch a glimpse, perhaps even one last time, of the 84-year-old aging pontiff. There are prayers, a vigil being held there in St. Peter's Square, people there from all over the world, praying for, in some instances for the peaceful passing of the pope. But many of them there acknowledging the significance and the dramatic historical moment, describing that this is an end of an era; many of them there recognizing the somberness of this moment. As they pray, people across Africa, Asia, Latin America praying also for the pope, as in the United States. We want to take you now to Washington, D.C., to the National Cathedral, where a mass is underway.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

CARDINAL THEORDORE MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: ...when you had 12 minutes with him. I had given my report and he was digesting it and didn't say anything to me. And looked, waiting for me to say something else. And I said to him, "I want to thank you for something, Holy Father."

And he said in his deep English that always had that trace of the Polish, he says, "Yes, what do you want to say?"

And I said, "I want to thank you, that you have always been a certain trumpet." You know, in that Epistle to the Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews tells us, if someone blows an uncertain trumpet, no one prepares for battle. That's how you got the armies ready. That's how you got the troops ready to go into battle, by blowing a trumpet with the right message, with a certain sound, not an uncertain sound.

And this Holy Father has always been -- I think, I believe, I know -- a man who has sounded a certain trumpet. You always knew what John Paul was teaching. And you always knew that he was teaching it with all his heart and with all his life behind it.

And when I said that to him, he smiled and he said, "We must always be clear." And he always was. And it didn't matter if he was going to have some people even walk away. The same thing happened with Jesus when he proclaimed the Eucharist.

And he said to those who stayed, are you going to walk away too? And remember the answer? They said, no, we will not walk away, because you and you alone have the words of ever lasting life.

And that's what constantly we have said to John Paul II. Your message is strong and your message is challenging. But your message is the message that God has given you to tell us, and that is the only message that has the words of everlasting life.

And so John Paul has always been faithful, I think, been faithful to life. What a champion of life he has always been; from the moment of conception to the moment god calls us home. And what a champion of the dignity of the human person, from his very encyclical, this first encyclical, this has been his clarion call, the family, the Sacrament of Matrimony, true Christian marriage, the Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance.

Time and time again, we have seen these same, wonderful important foundation stones repeated again and again in his teaching to us. What does he teach us now? He teaches us the value of life and suffering. He teaches us the value of human life when it is even not born, and when it is slipping away into death. May we learn from this, dear sisters and brothers. May we learn from the teaching of the Holy Father, because he teaches not only with his lips. He teaches with his life now, with his heart. His heart which stays strong, apparently, and with every fiber of his being.

We have been blessed, dear friends, in this pope for 27 years. Pray for the cardinals that if the Holy Father takes him now, if God, the Father, takes him now, we will be able to find the strength and the wisdom in the presence of the Holy Spirit to bring to the chair of Peter, as his successor someone with the charism, and the strength, and the love that the church needs today.

Pray for the Holy Father. As long as he has a breath in him, he is still our pope. And we rejoice in his presence and we thank god for his gifts. And you do, too, by being here today. And if the angels that watch over this great basilica have a chance to tell him, they will make sure he knows that this day in the teeming rain, men and women, young and old, of every nation, every race, rich and poor, brilliant, and like me, all of you have been here to say, thank you, Lord, for John Paul II.

And to ask the Lord to bless him, to help him carry his suffering and to help him in the hands of God to do what the Lord asks him to do. He has always been faithful to that word. He will be faithful today. And tomorrow. We also must be. Amen.

(END LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

VERJEE: What a champion of life he has been. He teaches us the value of human life. As the pope appears to inch closer and closer to death, the Archbishop of Washington, Theodore McCarrick gives a special service of the pope in Washington's National Cathedral, sharing stories, personal stories about his meeting with John Paul II, painting an inspiring and warm picture of a man that could really connect with people.

Thousands of people, who have seen the pope -- we have spoken to many of them over the past hours -- have said he had a way of speaking to a mass of people, but with each individual feeling, that his words really connected with them, that really had an impact on them. For many of the people, for many of the America's 67 million Catholics, most of them have only known Pope John Paul II and his 26-year papacy.

As the mass continues here at Washington National Cathedral, as it does so around the world in Africa and Asia, and elsewhere and even as we see Catholics praying for the pope, there are many non-Catholics around the world, Muslims and Jews, also praying for the ailing pontiff.

We want to take you now to Westminster Cathedral in London, where a mass is also underway there.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deliver us Lord, from every evil. Grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin. And protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior...

VERJEE: In London's Westminster Cathedral, after moments ago, CNN received word from the Vatican in a rather terse statement that the condition of Pope John Paul II remains very serious. He has developed a high fever in the late morning, it was according to the Vatican, but they say he responds correctly when spoken to.

We are watching developments from Vatican City, as well as bringing you images of the prayer of masses being held for Pope John Paul II around the world. We leave you for now as we go to break, with pictures from Westminster Cathedral in London.

As we look at the lights still on at St. Peter's Square in the papal residence, still on. There are thousands of people still standing vigil there in St. Peter's square. We're going to take a short break, stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: As the pope's health continues to deteriorate, thousands of people have gathered in St. Peter's Square, holding vigil, praying for the pope. Praying for his speedy recovery. Some praying as they look up at the lights on the third floor there, in the papal residence, that the suffering of the pope will come to an end and that he passes peacefully.

Pope John Paul is revered as a man who stood up for equal rights and the sanctity of human dignity. He made many pronouncements on these issues and sometimes sounded contradictory in reconciling doctrinal and morale issues. Heidi Collins reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Some have called Pope John Paul II a controversial figure, but profoundly contradictory may be a better description.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: Social organization exist only for the service of man and for the protection of his dignity, and that it cannot claim to serve the common good when human rights are not safeguarded.

COLLINS: Politically, the pope has been very much a modern man, a man famously in favor of freedom. The pontiff, from once Communist Poland, who heroically stood against Communism all over the world.

WILTON WYNN, AUTHOR, "KEEPERS OF THE KEYS": He thought once the yolk was removed of Communism that there would be a great spiritual revival, which would spill over into the West. That was his dream, but that certainly has not worked.

COLLINS: On the other hand, where doctrine was concerned, he has not been modern at all. An unwavering traditionalist, a rejecter of reform, a pope who held the line.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Particularly in issues of sexual morality, that tend to be very important in the developed West, whether it's abortion or birth control or gay rights or the role of women, where the pope's vision has not won a broad, popular following.

COLLINS: Pope John Paul II held the line on the place of women in the church, rejecting appeals, heard with particular fervor in the U.S. for the ordination of women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your God, is king.

PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It's a matter of justice, it is a matter of inclusion. We can use all the rhetoric we like to try to kid ourselves that women are equal in this church, but they will never be equal until they can be ordained.

COLLINS: He held the line on divorce. The church continues to be unalterably against it. He held the line on abortion, legalized extermination, he once called it. And on birth control.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: Only a higher moral vision can motivate the choice for life.

COLLINS: He held the line on the assimilation of openly gay and lesbian men and women into the clergy and against same-sex marriage. In his recent book, "Memory and Identity" he wrote that homosexuality was part of an ideology of evil, which insidiously threatens society.

WYNN: When he came to power, when he was elected, he realized one thing he had to do was to restore clarity to Catholic teaching. And he says, OK, maybe they won't obey. Maybe they don't accept, but at least they'll know what the church stands for.

SISTER JOAN: He seems to have adopted the position of the philosophers and theologians from about the 13th century.

COLLINS: In the end, Pope John Paul II, controversial, a man of opposites, an anti-Communist freedom fighter, and an unbending defender of the faith; a man of the future and of the past. Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MANN: Before he was Pope John Paul II, he was Karol Wojtyla, a cleric with an enormous impact in the land of his birth. Chris Burns reports now from Poland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Elaine O'Rourke and my son Brendan had been diagnosed with AIDS when he was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ... for Wadowice's favorite son. The pope spoke of a cream pastry --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brendan had been diagnosed with AIDS, when his was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS: Lay in the shadow of the town's main church. Now a museum, Karol Wojtyla's birthplace documents an arduous life long trek to the top.

Karol Wojtyla was born here May 18, 1920. His father, Karol, Sr., an army officer, his mother, Amelia (ph), a school teacher. The Wojtylas were strict Catholics, they didn't share the anti-Semitic views of many Poles. In a town with 8,000 Catholics and 2,000 Jews, Karol Wojtyla had Jewish classmates, many of them perished in the Holocaust.

Childhood friends say death in Wojtyla's family forced young Karol to quickly become a man. His mother died of heart and kidney ailments when he was nine. Three years later, tragedy struck again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I would say he lost his childhood at 12, when he lost his brother. There was no youthful folly in him. Even when he played sports he was very concentrated. But, of course, he had a lot of passion. He was a very noble person and he expressed things in a very noble way, but there was no folly.

BURNS: After graduating from high school, Wojtyla he went to Krakow to study literature and philosophy at Yagalonia (ph) University. He also joined an experimental theater, Denuta Michalovska (ph) first met him there in 1938.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was in high school. He was 18, strong, handsome. You could sense this strong personality.

BURNS: After Hitler's army invaded Poland the following year, Wojtyla worked in a quarry to avoid deportation to Germany as a slave laborer. He secretly studied to become a priest, though he continued with his acting. Michalovska remembers how Wojtyla came dressed in his overalls from the quarry and told her to buy this book, "King's Spirit" for a performance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He had this inner radiance, but he didn't lose time on small talk. He didn't participate in our jokes and he wouldn't flirt. Maybe some women were disillusioned, but I couldn't imagine this kind of contact.

BURNS: From youth to adulthood, Wojtyla developed a spirit and stamina he would need as history's most traveled pope. His favorite sports, hiking, skiing, rowing, soccer and hockey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He made use of every hour when he played soccer, he sacrificed himself. He was full of passion and played as goalkeeper. And everyone was shouting his name, because he would make every effort to defend the goal. He also played hockey. And at one time, the puck hit him on the brow. He had a scar from it.

BURNS: One of many scars from youth, physical and emotional, that gave Karol Wojtyla the resolve to leave his mark on this earth.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MANN: CNN's Chris Burns reporting from Wadowice.

VERJEE: Pope John Paul II visited San Francisco, California in 1987 at the height of that city's AIDS crisis. He held a mass that several AIDS patients attended, including Brendan O'Rourke, who wasn't quite five years old at the time. Brendan's mother fondly recalls her son's encounter with the pontiff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I'm Elaine O'Rourke and my son, Brendan, had been diagnosed with AIDS, when he was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing this as a way to have Brendan cured, just as a way to bring comfort and blessing to him and our family.

We were sitting right about here when the pope came in, and we were surrounded by, you know, all sorts of faithful. And as he made his way up, we were very excited. And then he paused here, stopped. That's when the whole embrace happened and Brendan reached out and the pope embraced him. Everyone around us was clapping and you see a lot of people had tears in their eyes. It was beautiful and quite memorable. It seemed so natural.

And the grabbing of the pope's ear, that was just something Brendan did when anybody was hugging him or holding him. A good, cold ear was something Brendan liked to grab on to.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: God loves you. God loves you all. He loves those of you who are sick, those who are suffering from AIDS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It introduced aids to the world, I think, in a way that they hadn't been willing to see it before. It was seen as a disease that only certain people were getting and instead of just a disease that people were getting. This broke down barriers, I believe, put a human face on the tragedy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Brendan O'Rourke died in 1990 at the age of seven.

MANN: Let's just bring you up to date, very quickly, the pope remains in very serious condition with a high fever. He is said to be responding to those around him. VERJEE: We will continue our coverage as we bring updates from Rome in just a few moments. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 2, 2005 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer, live in Rome, Italy. Pope John Paul II for 84 years a symbol of life to so many around the world. Now struggling to hang on. Could these be now his final moments?
This is a special edition of CNN's AMERICAN MORNING, live, once again, in Rome, Italy.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York and Bill Hemmer in Rome.

HEMMER: Once again, welcome, everybody. Just a minute past 5:00 in the afternoon here in Rome, Italy, as we continue to stand by and wait now for an update on the pope's condition.

The last word we were given came from the Vatican saying this... "There has been no change in the pope's condition." That may or may not change, though, however. In about 30 minutes, or at least some point during this hour, we do expect a statement from the Vatican that will update us on his condition.

And as we wait here, the crowds continue to grow. Police here in Rome now say well over 30,000 people have assembled in the Square of St. Peter's, the areas behind me, and also on the sidewalks and the streets around Rome, Italy, where we have assembled our location here. The crowds continue to build and grow.

And again, as we wait for the latest on the news, I want to bring in Soledad again. Soledad O'Brien back in New York City.

And good morning there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, Bill, as well. In fact, as we do wait for that update on the pope's health, and, as you say, coming in within a half an hour or so, let's look back.

Earlier, we heard from the Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro- Valls announcing that the pope is "in a compromised state of consciousness." The Vatican saying that the pope's heart and breathing unchanged since Friday, when low blood flow and shallow breathing were reported.

Also, the pope is said to be able to open and close his eyes. And when he is spoken to, he is said to respond by opening his eyes. For a second day, the Vatican announcing a series of papal appointments, including a Spanish bishop, two ambassadors as well. We're going to have much more from New York as we go along this morning.

Carol Costello is joining me as well. But let's get right back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.

Again, waiting on the president. We will get his radio address in a matter of moments. So when that happens out of Washington, we'll get you there.

In the meantime, let's bring in our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, who has been with me throughout the afternoon here.

And do you see any significance here? The crowds are truly growing in front of us.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Definitely, absolutely. Large crowds here. I mean, this is, you know, by far the largest crowd we've seen in Rome here in recent weekends.

Of course this is an important tourist site. But I've met many, many people here who have been coming here specifically because they know the pope is sick and they want to be here to pay their last respects.

HEMMER: And you know the news. In about 30 minutes or so, or at some point during the hour, we will get an update from the Vatican. And we're all waiting now to see, A, how specific they will be, and B, has his condition changed.

VINCI: Well, they have been quite forthcoming in recent days about the pope's condition. They're not saying much, but they're saying all they can really say.

And right now, really we want to find out the level of his state of consciousness that he has been -- that the Vatican spokesman told us about this morning. We want to know if this is further (UNINTELLIGIBLE) or not.

HEMMER: The other thing that was quite critical I thought from the earlier statement, there's no talk of a coma. However, they did say that mass was celebrated in his presence. I think the wording there is critical.

VINCI: Very important, because when the pope -- the pope's aide, which his old friend, Archbishop Stanislav Dziwisz, celebrates a mass for the pope, the pope concelebrates the mass, meaning he's participating actively. This is a mass that was actually celebrated in the presence of the pope, which meant that the pope did not actually participate in it, which means that his condition is so precarious right now that he can't even participate in the mass himself.

HEMMER: Alessio, thanks for that here in Rome.

Waiting on the statement. We'll get it to you when it happens. Back to New York now and Soledad. O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

In his radio address this morning, President Bush is expected to speak about the pope's failing health. Let's get right to Dana Bash. She is at the White House for us this morning.

Hey, Dana. Good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And we are told this morning that the president was up early in the Oval Office, getting some updates from his senior staff, watching the news report, essentially watching and waiting, along with the rest of us, as to what the condition of the pope is. And certainly, U.S. officials have some -- some officials at the Holy Sea, they are in touch with the Vatican, all coming back to Mr. Bush.

And now the vice president was here this morning as well. Very active here, as you said.

Mr. Bush actually taped part of his radio address late this morning about the pope. He is expected very shortly to extend his prayers, thoughts and wishes to the pope. And as I said, we expect to hear that from the president very shortly.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States, George W. Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning.

Before I begin today, I would like to say a word about Pope John Paul II. His holiness is a faithful servant of god and a champion of human dignity and freedom. He is an inspiration to us all. Laura and I join millions of Americans and so many around the world who are praying for the holy father.

This week the members of the independent commission looking into America's intelligence capabilities presented their report...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BASH: Now Soledad, as I mentioned, you could tell there the president taped the beginning of that radio address just recently to extend his thoughts and prayers on behalf of the American people to the pope. And this is a president, certainly, who has met with the pope, like four presidents before him, five all together.

He's met with him three times. And they have a lot of similarities, and a lot of -- they're in sync on a lot of issues, particularly on social issues like abortion.

But just like his predecessors, this is a pope who is not shy about lecturing this president about things that he was not happy about. For example, the Iraq war. Most recently, in June, at the Vatican, the pope made it very clear he was not happy about that war. And also, in private, told the president that he was not happy about the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison.

And one thing I should mention to you, Soledad, is that we do expect, although they're not saying it publicly at this point because they say it's inappropriate, we do expect the president to go to the pope's funeral. And that would be significant, because we can't find any evidence of any U.S. president attending a papal funeral -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right. Dana Bash at the White House this morning. And, of course, Dana, as we've been mentioning all morning, we're expecting in the next 30 minutes or so an update on the pope's condition from the Vatican.

Time to check the headlines now. Tony Harris is at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Hey, Tony. Good morning.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning, everyone.

"Now in the News," an Australian Navy helicopter has crashed in Indonesia, killing nine of the 11 people aboard. The chopper was working earthquake relief when it went down off the Indonesian island of Nias five days after the devastating quake. The death toll is expected to rise when researchers reach isolated parts of the island cut off by landslides.

Meanwhile, rescuers searching the earthquake rubble pulled a man from beneath his demolished home alive. He had been there for five days.

The FBI says it found bomb-making materials at the Kansas home of Oklahoma City bombing co-conspirator Terry Nichols yesterday. The bureau says blasting caps and other bomb-making equipment was buried in a crawl space. Agents went back to the home on a tip. They may have missed evidence during previous searches.

Neil Young is recuperating at a New York hospital from surgery for a brain aneurysm. It was discovered when Young sought treatment for blurry vision. The 59-year-old rocker is expected to be released in just a few days, and doctors expect a full recovery.

For most Americans and much of the world, it is time to spring forward. That means you need to set all of your clocks and watches ahead one hour by 2:00 a.m. Sunday. Daylight savings time ends the last Sunday in October.

Soledad, back to you.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks. Well, Ken Woodward is a contributing editor to "Newsweek." He's been the religion editor there for nearly 40 years. He's our guest this morning.

Good morning. Nice to see you.

KEN WOODWARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Good morning.

O'BRIEN: When you hear about these developments coming out of the Vatican, I'm curious, as having spent 40 years as a religion editor, a good portion of that time specifically covering Pope John Paul II, what's your reaction?

WOODWARD: Well, you know, I keep going back to that picture in the window where he's trying to speak and his mouth is open. And it's as if he's trapped behind glass and he can't communicate.

This is a man who could communicate in it seems like dozens of languages. This is a man that's traveled as no man did. Even Billy Graham hasn't evangelized so many countries as this man has. And suddenly he's trapped in this body.

So I keep thinking about him and what's it like to be trapped there. But also, you know, as a -- he's a deeply spiritual person -- what kind of prayers he's saying now.

O'BRIEN: It's interesting to hear people talk about the pope, who wrote and talked so much about human suffering, and have kind of brought it back around to his time now. The reports have been that he turned down pain medication so that he could sort of feel the very end. And if you believe the Vatican, which is usually not so forthcoming, the end is very, very near.

WOODWARD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What stands out to you the most about this pope's legacy?

WOODWARD: He was an evangelist. That's the amazing thing. That accounts for his trips.

O'BRIEN: 115 plus.

WOODWARD: It accounts -- I mean, he's tireless. But it also accounts for what he was saying.

He talked about evangelizing cultures through his encyclicals, especially the early ones, which were saying to the Marxists, from his home country, no, you must identify the dignity of the worker and not just his work. So I think -- and he tried to change minds. And he made that a form of evangelization. First words out of his mouth practically was Christ, Christ is the answer, when he stepped up on the balcony after he had just been elected.

O'BRIEN: Do you think there is a front-runner? I know it doesn't really work like that, but it kind of does, too. Is there a front-runner to be the next pope?

WOODWARD: I don't think so. You know, I've seen several of these. Everybody knew that Cardinal Montini was the front-runner, and he became Paul VI, which is basically the predecessor of this pope. Nobody was looking in this pope's direction. I think the field is entirely open at this point.

O'BRIEN: Do you think the goal is to choose a pope who is similar to the pope that is now with us, John Paul II, or do you think the goal is to go a completely different direction?

WOODWARD: Well, I think -- I think the rule historically has tended to be, find somebody different and say he's in the mold, and then let him be his own man. I think it's -- you know, you sort of go in one direction with one man. And it doesn't mean you repudiate that direction, but not even this pope can do everything. Somebody different.

O'BRIEN: He appointed all but three cardinals who will be the ones who eventually elect the next pope. Does that mean, to a large degree, that this pope will have a great hand in choosing his successor?

WOODWARD: No.

O'BRIEN: Really? Why not?

WOODWARD: The simple answer is, no. No, I think when they get in there, they've got to assess the needs of the Church.

Let's assume that the previous pope, this one, had brought the Church in a particular direction in a robust way, but he neglected these other things. They're going to look at somebody who can address the things that this pope did not address.

O'BRIEN: Ken Woodward of "Newsweek," contributing editor to "Newsweek." It's nice to see you. Religion editor as well for 40 years. It's nice to have you. Thanks for being our guest.

WOODWARD: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate it.

We are awaiting an update on the pope's health, as we've been mentioning all morning. We're expecting it within the next half-hour or so. We've got much more from New York and Rome right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back to Rome, Italy. The day is growing longer here. And it could be at any moment when we get the latest word and the latest statement from the Vatican regarding the pope's condition. We expect that latest word, anyway, to come about 5:30 p.m. local time, which is about 15 minutes away here in Italy, about 10:30 local time back in New York and up and down the East Coast. At that point, we should be able to get a better understanding to see whether or not the condition has changed from the update we received earlier today.

In a moment here in Rome, we're going to talk with Father Brian Johnstone. He's a theologian. We're going to talk about the whole issue of consciousness and what if this pope were to fall in a state similar to a coma, how would the Church respond and react.

As far as we can tell, based on the entire history of this Church, that has never been the case for a pope and his successor. So we'll get to the father in a moment here in Rome.

Back to New York now first. Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Well, Pope John Paul II made more than 100 foreign trips during his papacy, including several to the United States. In 1999, he led the biggest indoor mass in U.S. history, when more than 100,000 people gathered in St. Louis, Missouri.

Joining us this morning, Monsignor William Kerr. He's the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington.

It's nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us this morning.

MONSIGNOR WILLIAM KERR, POPE JOHN PAUL II CULTURAL CENTER: Happy to be here, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: How do you expect the Church will change with the death -- the impending death, it's fair to say, I think, when you listen to reports coming out of the Vatican, of the pope?

KERR: Well, Soledad, someone asked me recently whether the next pope would be able to fill the shoes of this pope. And the implication, of course, was this was an extraordinary pontificate, which, of course, it was.

My response is, well, it won't be filling the shoes. They'll be different shoes because it will be a different person.

And I think the grace of god has led different people to lead the Church in different directions. And I think the next pope will have his own vision and bring that vision to the Church. And we will go forward with that vision.

O'BRIEN: A different direction you say. What direction do you think the Church needs to head?

KERR: Well, I'm not sure when I say a different direction that I mean we need to change directions as such. It may be a nuanced change. It may be a dramatic change.

I think that in the last 25 years, the Church has changed direction, if you will, in some ways as far as the evangelization outreach is concerned. The basic doctrines, of course, have remained constant and consistent. But I think the new pope will have to address some issues that this pope was unable to fully address.

And I think that has a lot to do with the emerging populations and problems of Africa, the challenges of Asia, Latin America's maturity and becoming a very pivotal player in the world. These are places where there are large Catholic populations. And there are places where the challenges of the future must be certainly dealt with.

And I think the new pope is going to have to bring the wisdom of the faith to the critical decisions in those regions of the world and make the wisdom of the faith credible. And that will be a challenge.

O'BRIEN: You talk about geographic, or geographical challenges. What about sort of scientific challenges, sort of the area where science and faith kind of meet and not always happily? For example, stem cell research, things that we can do today in science that really other previous popes hadn't even had to think about, because we were not able to do them as people.

What kind of an impact do you think that has?

KERR: Well, Soledad, that's exactly what I'm saying. I think that as we face those -- and they are among the challenges that humanity faces, the advance of technology, the advance of science. And I think that we must be very, very conscious of the fact that we cannot let technology completely run away from ethics and from morality.

I think that when we talk about evangelizing the culture, which, of course, this pope has talked about a great deal, we must insert into the deliberations that are going on, you know, what are the ethical implications, what are the moral implications. Not everybody will agree on those. But I think the next pope will have to insert those into the consciousness of people and stimulate debate.

There will be -- perhaps what we think are revolutionary advances now will seem rather tame in five or 10 years, as science and technology, you know, gallops forward. But I think at no time can humanity overlook the ethical and the moral implications of its progress.

O'BRIEN: We're taking a look at Vatican City, which is now filling up with tourists, Monsignor, and pilgrims who have come out, obviously, to pay their last respects to Pope John Paul II, who is in dire, dire shape, as reports from the Vatican come to us. Give me a sense of the American church and the state of the American Catholic Church.

KERR: Well, the American Catholic Church is in some ways on the very frontier of the advances in science and technology. It's the very frontier of pop culture, if I may use that expression, a culture that permeates the entire world. And I think the American church has many, many different cultures coming together into what may be a single culture. But there are many voices.

And I think that we are a church that is in some ways divided. We, in America, in the United States, we are struggling and we are searching. And I think that we will be looking for new leadership. And there are a number of questions that people within the United States are wrestling with right now that new leadership in the church, I'm sure, will address.

O'BRIEN: Monsignor William Kerr is the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center joining us this morning. Thank you very much for your time.

KERR: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, the world watches and waits for word on Pope John Paul II. We're going to return with more of our special extended coverage of AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. You're taking a live look just a moment ago there at St. Peter's Square, where you can see tens of thousands of pilgrims and tourists have now come into the area over the last several hours. We are expecting an update on the pope's condition to come to us shortly. That's the word from the Vatican this morning.

In those three hours, though, thousands standing by to find out there in St. Peter's Square the condition of the pope. And also millions of others around the world.

Let's take a look now, in fact, at how other people in other countries are responding to the pope's health care crisis. Carol Costello has been checking out some reaction around the world.

Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.

Throughout the Catholic faith and beyond, churches and communities are offering prayers for the ailing pontiff. In Australia, Roman Catholics gathered in Sydney and other cities for masses as news of the pope's relapse swept the country. Australian Prime Minister John Howard said the pope will be remembered as a freedom fighter against communism and as a great Christian leader.

In the Indian city of Calcutta, nuns of the Sisters of the Missionaries of Charity offered prayers for the pope. The group was founded by Mother Teresa, who was beatified by the pope in 2003.

Across the United States, Catholics are holding vigils and masses. CNN's Peter Viles is at Our Lady of the Bright Mount Catholic Church in Los Angeles, the nation's largest Catholic archdiocese. Good morning.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Morning is breaking here on the West Coast. And it is a beautiful day. Three-and-a-half million Catholics in the Los Angeles area waking to a beautiful spring day and to the news that you're bringing them, that the pope is clinging to life in Rome.

Now, the spiritual leader of the church here in Los Angeles, Cardinal Mahony, has left the city. He has gone to Rome to arrive in Rome Saturday night. Before he left, however, he celebrated two masses for the pope. He also spoke personally that these, he said, are difficult moments for him personally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES: It is a very difficult moment for me personally, as it is for all of us, because we have two different emotions at work. On the one hand, we rejoice in a magnificent papacy that accomplished so much, more than anyone could have imagined.

At the same time, we're losing him. And so we feel that that loss, that separation.

But at the same time, he is going to obtain the reward towards which we are all moving. And that is eternal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: Just a word about where we are. This is the Our Lady of Bright Mount Church. It is a Polish church. And this pope, before he was a world -- before he was pope, rather, had visited this church in 1976, said mass here when he was the cardinal of Krakow.

He was greeted here as a hero. Still remembered as a hero almost 30 years later. It's a memory that this parish on this day really cherishes.

COSTELLO: Peter Viles live in Los Angeles this morning. Thank you.

And, of course, Cardinal Egan here in New York saddened, too, by the pope's condition, saying it feels as if he's going to lose a father.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I think a pretty familiar refrain we're hearing from lots of our reports around the country and around the globe.

Carol, thanks.

A reminder now. We're awaiting that update from the Vatican on the pope's health. We're expecting it shortly. We're standing by for that.

You're watching a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. We're live from New York and from Rome. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: 10:30 in New York City, 5:30 in the evening here in Rome in Vatican City. We are waiting now at any moment for the latest word on the pope's condition. We anticipate a statement from the Vatican to come out at any point.

It was about six hours ago the last time we were given word of his condition. During that time, about 11:30 a.m. local time, nothing has changed from last night. That was the word from a Vatican spokesperson.

Also, he had mass celebrated in his presence, which has left a lot to the imagination as to his care and condition, whether or not he was alert or whether or not hew as active in any way during that mass in his papal residency. At one time they say his eyes are open, looks to be resting. But there was no talk of a coma.

Again, all those facts coming out about six hours ago from the Vatican. And any moment right now we should get the latest from the Vatican.

As we wait on that now, let's talk with Father Brian Johnstone. He's a moral theologian with the with the Alphonsian Academy. And he is my guest now here just steps away from Vatican City.

And good evening to you.

FATHER BRIAN JOHNSTONE, MORAL THEOLOGIAN, ALPHONSIAN ACADEMY: Good evening.

HEMMER: If this pope is incapacitated, is put into a coma, given his current condition, what does Church law dictate as to what happens for succession?

JOHNSTONE: If the pope should fall into a coma, and if that coma continues for some considerable time, there could be quite a serious problem for the Church, as there is no specific Canon Law which covers that situation.

HEMMER: Over 2,000 years, this never happened this way before?

JOHNSTONE: Well, the problem hasn't arisen before because, in the past, medicine was not capable of prolonging life as it is now. So there never was an instance where a pope continued for a long -- in a comatose situation.

There have been instances where a long time ago a pope was psychologically incapacitated. But there's been no example of someone in a coma. This is something which happens in a modern medical environment.

There are two possibilities. One is that the pope might fall into a coma, which would then continue for some considerable time. From what I'm hearing from the medical reports, that is not envisaged. The pope's health seems to be an inevitable progress of rather rapid decline.

HEMMER: So you're suggesting that this would not even be a possibility worth considering?

JOHNSTONE: Well, it doesn't seem, at least from the way I understand the reports, that there's a real possibility of the pope entering a coma and staying in a comatose state, but maintaining some kind of viable life for some time.

From what I hear the people saying, he's already entered into a process which is going to bring about death in a relatively short period of time. Now, if it should happen, however, that the pope does enter into a coma, and that state continues, and if his life had to be maintained, for example, by supply, nutrition and hydration, or by a respirator, then there would be quite difficult ethical problems and also legal problems.

HEMMER: Is there not, though, the possibility that exists that this pope has talked about that condition and perhaps laid out steps that could be taken for the Church to continue without him?

JOHNSTONE: Well, there have been reports that the pope has already written a letter specifying what should happen. Others have denied that such a letter exists. I personally just don't know.

Lawyers have discussed the issue quite independently of the pope. This has got nothing to do with what the pope has said or thought or represented. Because there is no specific Canon Law covering the pope in a comatose situation, it has been suggested that before this situation arose the pope would delegate somebody, a close friend or a trusted coworker, who would have the responsibility of declaring when the pope actually is in a coma and is no longer able to communicate. And then there would have to be an arrangement made with the assistance of the pope as to how the Church should carry on in that situation.

HEMMER: And father, you know all too well for 26 years the way he has preached about life.

JOHNSTONE: Yes.

HEMMER: Whether it's a human embryo, or whether it's someone suffering at the age of 100 and frail and in a nursing home at some point, somewhere in this world. Knowing that his position on suffering has been detailed so well and so publicly, and if a feeding tube were to be a possibility...

JOHNSTONE: Well, let's just suppose -- as I said, I don't think this is going to happen -- but let's suppose it did, that the pope fell into a coma and was maintained then on a feeding tube for some considerable time. What would be the position?

The position of the Church on these issues was laid out quite recently by the pope in March last year when he made a statement which was very widely defused. He took the position that, first of all, persons in such a state are to be considered as human persons, obviously. They are not vegetables. They have maintained their dignity.

With regard to the obligation and to continue feeding a person, what he said in that document was that such feeding should be considered a natural act. It's not just any sort of medical treatment. And therefore, should be in principle continued. But he did say in principle.

Now, it's possible that a person can reach a moment when they're being fed by a feeding tube, when physically they're simply no longer capable of taking any more nourishment. If that point arises, then it can be stopped.

HEMMER: I just have another minute to talk about this. And the opinions you're offering here about him being past that point of the feeding tube, is that based on what the Vatican is saying publicly, or is that based on private conversations you're having?

JOHNSTONE: This is jus t-- I'm just basing myself on what I have heard being said publicly. So I am not a medical doctor, I don't know.

But when we compare the pope's situation, which is a very different situation of Terri Schiavo, for example, what I'm in effect saying is that I can't foresee from what I've heard, at least from my understanding of what I've heard, that there's any real possibility of the pope getting in a situation like that...

HEMMER: Understood.

JOHNSTONE: ... where he would be maintained for a considerable time. From what has been said, that doesn't seem likely to me at all.

HEMMER: Thank you, father.

JOHNSTONE: But it's still a possibility.

HEMMER: I apologize for interrupting you.

JOHNSTONE: No problem at all.

HEMMER: Father Johnstone in Rome.

Let's get back to New York and Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Bill, thanks.

And we should mention once again that we are expecting an announcement from the Vatican on the pope's condition any moment, really. We're expecting that momentarily. We'll bring that to you when it happens.

Well, my very next guest has known the pope since 1976. That is before he assumed the papacy. Monsignor Lorenzo Albacete is a professor of theology at St. Joseph's Seminary here in New York. He's also a columnist with "New York Times" magazine.

Nice to see you. Thanks for chatting with us.

MONSIGNOR LORENZO ALBACETE, PROFESSOR, ST. JOSEPH'S SEMINARY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You have a story about how you told the pope not long ago that you would be commenting now...

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... in your position on his health.

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: And ultimately, probably be reporting on his death.

ALBACETE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What was his response to you?

ALBACETE: Well, I just kind of felt guilty, because I had signed an agreement at that time to do just this. And I told him that, "Well, look, I do that, at least there will be someone who will say nice things about you." And he looked with this nasty look that he had, you know, and said, "Well, what really bothers me is how do they know that I am dying first." And I said, "Well, let's put it this way, if I die first, you go on CNN and say nice things."

So obviously, he had no problem with this. And that's why I'm here. I'm thinking of that.

O'BRIEN: What do you think is his legacy, is the most important aspect of what he has left behind, now, as we look to, frankly, his death as the Vatican points out, only dire news on his condition?

ALBACETE: I think hess legacy is, whatever it is that has not been said to be his legacy since we've been covering this story. That's to say, it's always so surprising.

Looking back in 10 years, we may see an entirely different picture. However, you've got to say something, I've got to say something. I would say his legacy has been to return the missionary spirit to the Church, to try to give it enough confidence that it has something that the world really needs, and to find out how to make the offer in today's world.

O'BRIEN: One reason, it seems to me, that that missionary spirit was so successful was that the pope has this incredible ability to leverage the media as well.

ALBACETE: Oh, yes, yes.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about his trip to Cuba.

ALBACETE: He knows the act.

O'BRIEN: Yes, he does. And... ALBACETE: That, unfortunately, from the media perspective, was problematic, because right in the midst of it, the Monica Lewinsky scandal occurred. And...

O'BRIEN: Was it a failure? There were huge expectations for that trip. There was an expectation that...

ALBACETE: Everybody was there. All the big names, including you. So...

O'BRIEN: But there was an expectation that the pope would go and sort of maybe meet with Fidel Castro and talk him out of the road that Cuba was on.

ALBACETE: No, no. There was not that expectation. Not in the Vatican.

O'BRIEN: People felt that something very big -- there was a feeling in the air that something very big was going to happen.

ALBACETE: Well, I know. And it was dramatic enough.

I'll never forget the ride into Havana. There was not a sign of a government anywhere. It's as if they had left the city.

And the pope was triumphantly -- there were all these messages, you see. What I meant, it was very few people could see it because the attention of the media went elsewhere. Understandably, I imagine.

But see, the pope, I don't think, thought of these results. He believed that he wanted to be there because he had to be there.

I don't know -- this is going to sound strange. He had to physically be there.

O'BRIEN: All of his -- all of his...

ALBACETE: It could not be messages, documents or agreements by the phone. He had to be there. This is the style of the dramatist, but also the style of Christianity itself.

O'BRIEN: Can a less dramatic, or less dynamic, let's say, pope, maybe someone who doesn't speak eight languages and who isn't going to have a schedule that encompasses 115 countries...

ALBACETE: Yes. I wonder who's taking over his frequent flier points.

O'BRIEN: ... can he be as successful?

ALBACETE: Sure. All he has to do is be authentic to the point of departure, which is amazing to say that the pope is a Christian, which is the presence of Christ. Give witness to it. But give physical witness to it, don't just talk about it.

Just be there the way you look, the way you touch people. Oh, yes, definitely. There's no problem.

O'BRIEN: Monsignor Albacete, the professor of theology at St. Joseph's Seminary. Nice to see you again. Thanks.

ALBACETE: Nice to see you. Bye-bye.

O'BRIEN: Let's head back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.

Watching Vatican television right now, awaiting the statement. About 15 minutes ago, we thought it would come in paper form. Now it appears to be an on-camera statement. Perhaps the Vatican spokesperson will appear at that point, Joaquin Navarro-Valls. As soon as that happens, we are waiting now for it to begin.

Break here. Back in a moment. Live in Rome right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The crowds are growing by the hour. About 60 minutes ago, police here in Rome say well over 30,000 have now gathered in St. Peter's Square. They're all over the place here throughout the city of Rome, waiting now, like we are, for the latest word, the latest statement from the Vatican. It could happen at any moment.

As we monitor Vatican TV, we await the spokesperson to come out and address the media here in Rome, and the one billion Catholics waiting around the world for the latest condition on the pope.

We'll be back in a moment here in Rome. Now, New York again and Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's head now to Tony. He's going to update us on the news stories that are making headlines this morning.

Tony, good morning again.

HARRIS: Hello, Soledad. And hello, everyone.

"Now in the News," a car bomb exploded today in central Iraq, killing five people, including four police officers. Police believe the bomb was in a taxi parked near a police station south of Baquba. And they say it was likely detonated by a remote control device.

Civilian truckers hauling U.S. cargo are killed in Afghanistan. Afghan officials say suspected Taliban gunmen opened fire on the truckers when they crossed the Pakistani border south of Kandahar. The drivers were two Pakistanis and one Afghan. Officials say they were carrying vehicles to the U.S. military in southern Afghanistan.

Terri Schiavo's autopsy is finished, but it will be several weeks before the results are known. Her husband, Michael, plans to cremate the body and bury the ashes at an unspecified family plot in Pennsylvania. But a court has ordered him to disclose that location to his wife's parents. The Los Angeles hotel where Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1968 has been saved from the wrecking ball, at least for now. The Los Angeles school district wants to build new schools on the site of the long-closed Ambassador Hotel. Five of Kennedy's nine surviving children say the hotel should be torn down.

Let's send you back now to Rome and Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: All right, Tony. Thank you.

About six hours ago now, the last statement we got from the Vatican talked about the pope straining his voice to speak earlier today. And the words came out something similar to this, the Vatican says... "You come to me, and for this I thank you."

Again, a strained voice. Perhaps nothing more than a whisper from the pope earlier today. And again, there's been no talk of a coma, but there was an indication early today at daybreak, right around 7:30 a.m. local time here, when the Vatican talked about this compromising moment they found the pope.

Does that mean perhaps he lost consciousness for a moment or was unaware? Perhaps we'll get a better clarification in a moment here as we wait for the spokesperson to come out on Vatican television and give us the statement.

We have been waiting for this now for just about six hours. We thought we would get it 45 minutes ago. Perhaps there's been some sort of delay. But again, just before 6:00 local time in the evening here in Rome. And when that statement comes out, we will know whether or not there has been any change in the current condition of the pope.

And we will not leave it for long. Back to Rome in a moment here.

But again, here's Soledad in New York.

O'BRIEN: Thanks a lot, Bill.

Let's get right to national correspondent Gary Tuchman. He has been covering the reaction of Catholics in Boston to the pope's declining health.

Good morning, Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, good morning to you.

It is very cold and rainy here in Boston, just like the weather 25.5 years ago on October 1, 1979, when Pope John Paul II made his first and only visit to Boston as pope. It was his first American visit, though, as pontiff.

And he stopped inside this church, the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. And that's where a mass was held this morning to pray for Pope John Paul II. It's a regularly scheduled mass that takes place every morning, Monday through Saturday, at 9:00.

But inside, they offered their prayers for the pontiff. And the priest who was presiding today told the parishioners, "Did you know that tomorrow is Divine Mercy Sunday?"

Now, many of you, including Catholics, might not know about Divine Mercy Sunday. But it was started in Poland about 50 years ago, and basically it's an extra special Sunday, the Sunday after Easter Sunday.

And the priest then told the parishioners, "I want everyone to raise your hands if you would not be surprised if the pope would pass away tomorrow, because it's such a special Sunday." And everyone raised their hands, indicating they would not be surprised if Pope John Paul II passed away tomorrow.

Now, we should tell you, inside that mass today was a Bostonian who used to live in Poland. He went to university, at the Catholic University of Lublin. Lublin is a city in eastern Poland. And back in 1976, two years before Pope John Paul II became the pontiff, he was a guest lecturer at that university.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ANISKYWSKI, PARISHIONER: He was a visiting pontiff at the Catholic University. So generally, you know, he was a sportsman during the wintertime. He used to come into the class with his skis, you know, on the side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pope with the skis?

ANISKYWSKI: That's right. And he said to us, "Well, listen, now we're just going to talk about how to ski." And, you know, then he started his lecture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: It's easy for us to forget, even those of us who are old enough to remember the pope when he started his pontificate, that he used to ski when he was a pope. And it's just a reminder that all of us regular people, or popes, age.

Back to you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And those are some pretty remarkable pictures, the rare photos or videotape of the pope skiing that we have seen. Gary Tuchman for us in Boston this morning. Gary, thanks for that.

Well, John Paul II reached out to thousands of people in the 100- plus countries that he visited as pope. And Now many of those people and others around the world are praying for him.

Carol Costello back with more on this.

Good morning again.

COSTELLO: Oh, they certainly are praying for him. Just a couple of examples for you.

At the Cologne Cathedral in Germany, 500 people turned out for a special prayer service for the gravely ill pope. Bishop Rineard Marx (ph) led the prayers and asked followers to show solidarity with the pope in the final hours of his pontificate.

In Jerusalem, priests and seminarians said special prayers at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. At the entrance, a Palestinian Christian said, "We pray for the soul of him whom the Palestinian people love and appreciate."

Here in the United States, and in Italy, reflections on Pope John Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sad. My heart's very heavy. It's the end of an era.

I'm a product of Vatican II. He brought Catholicism to young people, made it accessible. And it's just very sad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm very sorry for what is going on, a sign that we cannot forget. He will always be in us. We are very touched by what's happening. We hope that he could continue to live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Back in Germany, Bishop Karl Juston (ph) summed it up this way. He said, "We are experiencing the death of a person who obviously means something to many people."

O'BRIEN: Really an understatement, to a large degree. Many people, not only Catholics -- I mean, what we've heard from those spiritual leaders who are not Catholic is the degree to which Pope John Paul II touched them and their parishioners, their flock with a message of just humanity.

COSTELLO: And I think one of the reasons why is because he didn't put his finger in the wind to see which way it was blowing before he came out with his opinion. He had a very strong moral center. And he never varied from that. Whether you agreed with him or not, you respected him because he just never varied.

O'BRIEN: And I think also just sort of the sense of human dignity as a platform for many people. That was hard to disagree with.

Carol, thanks. We'll check in with you again.

Well, Roman Catholic leaders have been flocking to the Vatican and to the pope's bedside. The governor of Vatican City visited the pontiff on Friday. Cardinal Edmund Szoka says the pope showed some signs of life during his visit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL EDMUND SZOKA, GOVERNOR OF VATICAN CITY: The pope was completely conscious and completely alert. He couldn't speak, but when he saw me with his eyes, and bowing his head, I knew he immediately recognized me and was trying to greet me.

So I knelt down alongside of him by the bed, and I kissed his hand and held his hand. And I told him in Polish that I had offered mass for him and that I was praying for him.

And in the meantime, these other -- the three doctors were on the other side of the bed. So I wasn't there too long. And then Archbishop Dziwisz spoke and to me and said, "Maybe it would be better to go now."

So when I left I just -- you know, I'm a priest, so I just automatically gave him a blessing. And when I did, he blessed himself. It was a very moving moment.

He was -- as I say, he was perfectly conscious and perfectly alert. I have no doubt about that. But he was having extreme difficulty breathing.

His breathing was very, very labored. And it was very sad for me to see him that way. It must have been terrible suffering to have to keep sort of gasping for breath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: That's the governor of Vatican City, Cardinal Edmund Szoka, talking about his visit on Friday with Pope John Paul II.

Let's go back to Rome and Bill Hemmer -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, in St. Peter's Square, where the thousands have gathered there now as this day grows older, coming up on 6:00 local time here in Rome, it is very difficult when you're in that square, Soledad, not to take your eyes off the papal residency. That's that brown four-story building that sits high above St. Peter's Square, and to look on the top floor toward the corner where you know his bedroom has been located. His other offices and his study is there.

It's hard to take your eyes off of those windows when you're in there. And it's so true for the pilgrims who have come here as well.

We talked with a couple men from Rome. They were businessmen and Italian, a bit of broken English we were speaking earlier today.

They were staring up at these windows and just saying, "We're just looking and waiting for news." And they went on to say something that we have heard so often, "We are dear friends of the pope." Again, that word "friend" coming back into the picture here in Rome, Italy.

Talked with an American nun, too, and she was quite taken. And again, I mentioned this earlier today. When you ask people here what this man meant to you and why they're here and what the feeling they have here, there is normally a pause, a small time for reflection, and then they continue to tell you their opinion.

And what she said was, "It's a time of sorrow." And she continues -- I was writing down -- she was making sure I got her words exactly right -- "A loss of his great life but a feeling of appreciation." She says, "A feeling of hope and of courage for a man who tried to bring people together as children of god."

And so many throughout the Church will tell you that he was a father figure for children around the world. And throughout his 26- year papacy, wherever he was on the planet, he always reached out to children. It was clear he had this connection to the young people of this world, and wanted to relay to him his own message, his own experience and his own reputation that he has carried throughout his 84-year life here, and 26 years as leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

We're awaiting for news now. Will the news be any different from earlier today? We'll get it to you when the statement comes out from the Vatican here live in Rome as we continue on this special edition of AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MANN: St. Peter's Square, where thousands of people have gathered, praying, hoping and trying to communicate with their presence in that ancient place, their wishes for John Paul II, gravely ill and we're now told suffering from a high fever.

Welcome back. I'm Jonathan Mann

VERJEEY: I'm Zain Verjee. We continue now with our coverage of Pope John Paul II's declining condition. We would like also to welcome our viewers joining CNN International from North America.

MANN: We have just had, moments ago, a statement from the Vatican about the pope's condition. It was very short, but for people reading it closely, it may speak volumes. We go now to CNN's Jim Bittermann with the latest he's been able to learn -- Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jonathan, the statement is very short. Why don't I just read it, because it's not that long? "The clinical conditions of the Holy Father remain very serious. In the late morning, a high fever developed. When addressed by members of his household, he responds correctly."

That is what we have been waiting for all day, trying to see what the latest bulletin was from the papal apartment. What it indicates, I think, among other things, is that the pope is conscious, because is he responding to members of his household. The fever has got to be worrying to any medical doctor, I would think, that would be looking at this. They would be saying a man in his condition to be running a fever has got to be very serious.

But also, it should be said, that he continues in what is described as very serious condition, which is the same description we heard this morning, so that there really hasn't been a real change in his overall condition that we are -- at least from what we can detect from this very terse announcement. Without probably more detail, it really is pretty difficult and a lot of speculation, just to exactly say where this is all going.

The fact he's still responding indicates a little bit of contradiction with this morning's statement that the pope had suffered an altered state of consciousness. There had been something at about 7:30 this morning, that indicated the pope was not completely alert. This statement seems to indicate the pope is alert.

It's a little bit ambiguous, leaves us in the dark a little bit. Looks to me it's going to be another night of watching and waiting for the pilgrims and the faithful who have come to St. Peter's Square. Jon?

MANN: The pope's spokesman is a long-time aide. During one of the earlier meetings with the media giving the official account of the pope's health, he actually broke down and started to cry. Can you tell us how we got the statement this time, whether there was anything like that?

BITTERMANN: No. In fact, it was just issued as a piece of paper. He did not -- he was actually seen around the pressroom a little earlier in the afternoon, but this statement just was issued as a bulletin.

He really didn't promise much more than that earlier in the day. He said he would issue a medical bulletin. That can be anything. It's kind of ambiguous in Italian, bulletino, something where he would come down personally and say or whether it would be something issued on paper. In the end, that's what happened.

So, you know, when you talk about his personal involvement, yes, I mean, he is a long-time collaborator of the pope. Before he was the papal spokesman, he was a newspaper reporter and covered the Vatican for one of the Italian newspapers and then was hand picked by the pope to be his spokesman and went everywhere with the pope for years. I think the two are quite close. And he has had a lot of access to the pope over the years.

But I think the terseness of this is indicative that the situation is not changing. If the situation were changing to some extent, we probably would have heard it. The only change that really is reported here is the high fever, which took place late in the morning. We're, of course, late in the evening -- not late in the evening, towards the evening here. So, it's a question of whether that fever is still there and that is about the only thing that has changed from the earlier bulletin this morning. Jon?

MANN: We're learning about this from you, but there are thousands of people crowding in and overflowing in St. Peter's Square. Are they being kept up-to-date on the pope's condition in anyway or is word passing informally with people with radios and the like? BITTERMANN: Well, I think radios. And perhaps if they have their stations tuned in to CNN Radio, maybe, they can hear it. I'm not sure, Jon. All kidding aside, I think there is a fair amount of information on, for instance, the RI (ph) Channel, Italian state media channels. There's a lot of information out there if people really want to, I think most people in the square are not coming armed with radio receivers and whatnot, ready to stay up-to-date on everything.

I think, most of them are going out there because they feel this is the moment to be there, either because of their faith or because of their sense of history. They're out there, joining together with others. Whether they would actually see anything happen, well, you know, if the pope were to die, there might be visual clues.

It might be long after we had already reported a papal death. There would be visual clues, for instance, the bronze doors are shut at the top of the royal stairway that lead into the papal apartment are shut. Of course, they're shut every evening at 8 o'clock anyway. It's a little hard to distinguish what is causing them to be closed.

Also, something that has traditionally happened when a pope dies is that the large bell to the left of St. Peter's, 10-ton bell, nine feet in diameter, rings out. It has a very distinctive ring. You can hear it all across Rome. That would be another clue. But for people in the square, that might be a lot later than what we would be reporting it.

MANN: There is so much lore attached to this ancient office. Some of it is more trustworthy than other elements of it. You mentioned the doors. We have been looking our cameras have been pointed to the windows of the papal apartments. Would there be any signal there?

BITTERMANN: Well, there was back when John the XXIII died. One of the things they did to indicate his death was they lighted up the windows of the papal apartments to indicate he had passed on. Here, the windows have been lit the last two nights now. This will be probably the third night they remain lit. That could be a sign -- we're always interpreting signs from the Vatican. That could be a sign that the pope is still alive, as long as the apartments are lit.

Another sign, by the way, in the past of a papal passing has been the shutting of the papal apartment windows. If we were to see anything like that, I think that would indicate bad news coming from the Vatican -- Jon?

MANN: CNN's Jim Bittermann, at the Vatican. Thanks very much, Zain?

VERJEE: Jon, in looking up at those apartment windows, thousands of people from all over the world gathering in St. Peter's Square, looking at the lights still on in the apartment hoping to catch a glimpse, perhaps even one last time, of the 84-year-old aging pontiff. There are prayers, a vigil being held there in St. Peter's Square, people there from all over the world, praying for, in some instances for the peaceful passing of the pope. But many of them there acknowledging the significance and the dramatic historical moment, describing that this is an end of an era; many of them there recognizing the somberness of this moment. As they pray, people across Africa, Asia, Latin America praying also for the pope, as in the United States. We want to take you now to Washington, D.C., to the National Cathedral, where a mass is underway.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

CARDINAL THEORDORE MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: ...when you had 12 minutes with him. I had given my report and he was digesting it and didn't say anything to me. And looked, waiting for me to say something else. And I said to him, "I want to thank you for something, Holy Father."

And he said in his deep English that always had that trace of the Polish, he says, "Yes, what do you want to say?"

And I said, "I want to thank you, that you have always been a certain trumpet." You know, in that Epistle to the Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews tells us, if someone blows an uncertain trumpet, no one prepares for battle. That's how you got the armies ready. That's how you got the troops ready to go into battle, by blowing a trumpet with the right message, with a certain sound, not an uncertain sound.

And this Holy Father has always been -- I think, I believe, I know -- a man who has sounded a certain trumpet. You always knew what John Paul was teaching. And you always knew that he was teaching it with all his heart and with all his life behind it.

And when I said that to him, he smiled and he said, "We must always be clear." And he always was. And it didn't matter if he was going to have some people even walk away. The same thing happened with Jesus when he proclaimed the Eucharist.

And he said to those who stayed, are you going to walk away too? And remember the answer? They said, no, we will not walk away, because you and you alone have the words of ever lasting life.

And that's what constantly we have said to John Paul II. Your message is strong and your message is challenging. But your message is the message that God has given you to tell us, and that is the only message that has the words of everlasting life.

And so John Paul has always been faithful, I think, been faithful to life. What a champion of life he has always been; from the moment of conception to the moment god calls us home. And what a champion of the dignity of the human person, from his very encyclical, this first encyclical, this has been his clarion call, the family, the Sacrament of Matrimony, true Christian marriage, the Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance.

Time and time again, we have seen these same, wonderful important foundation stones repeated again and again in his teaching to us. What does he teach us now? He teaches us the value of life and suffering. He teaches us the value of human life when it is even not born, and when it is slipping away into death. May we learn from this, dear sisters and brothers. May we learn from the teaching of the Holy Father, because he teaches not only with his lips. He teaches with his life now, with his heart. His heart which stays strong, apparently, and with every fiber of his being.

We have been blessed, dear friends, in this pope for 27 years. Pray for the cardinals that if the Holy Father takes him now, if God, the Father, takes him now, we will be able to find the strength and the wisdom in the presence of the Holy Spirit to bring to the chair of Peter, as his successor someone with the charism, and the strength, and the love that the church needs today.

Pray for the Holy Father. As long as he has a breath in him, he is still our pope. And we rejoice in his presence and we thank god for his gifts. And you do, too, by being here today. And if the angels that watch over this great basilica have a chance to tell him, they will make sure he knows that this day in the teeming rain, men and women, young and old, of every nation, every race, rich and poor, brilliant, and like me, all of you have been here to say, thank you, Lord, for John Paul II.

And to ask the Lord to bless him, to help him carry his suffering and to help him in the hands of God to do what the Lord asks him to do. He has always been faithful to that word. He will be faithful today. And tomorrow. We also must be. Amen.

(END LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

VERJEE: What a champion of life he has been. He teaches us the value of human life. As the pope appears to inch closer and closer to death, the Archbishop of Washington, Theodore McCarrick gives a special service of the pope in Washington's National Cathedral, sharing stories, personal stories about his meeting with John Paul II, painting an inspiring and warm picture of a man that could really connect with people.

Thousands of people, who have seen the pope -- we have spoken to many of them over the past hours -- have said he had a way of speaking to a mass of people, but with each individual feeling, that his words really connected with them, that really had an impact on them. For many of the people, for many of the America's 67 million Catholics, most of them have only known Pope John Paul II and his 26-year papacy.

As the mass continues here at Washington National Cathedral, as it does so around the world in Africa and Asia, and elsewhere and even as we see Catholics praying for the pope, there are many non-Catholics around the world, Muslims and Jews, also praying for the ailing pontiff.

We want to take you now to Westminster Cathedral in London, where a mass is also underway there.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deliver us Lord, from every evil. Grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin. And protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior...

VERJEE: In London's Westminster Cathedral, after moments ago, CNN received word from the Vatican in a rather terse statement that the condition of Pope John Paul II remains very serious. He has developed a high fever in the late morning, it was according to the Vatican, but they say he responds correctly when spoken to.

We are watching developments from Vatican City, as well as bringing you images of the prayer of masses being held for Pope John Paul II around the world. We leave you for now as we go to break, with pictures from Westminster Cathedral in London.

As we look at the lights still on at St. Peter's Square in the papal residence, still on. There are thousands of people still standing vigil there in St. Peter's square. We're going to take a short break, stay with CNN.

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VERJEE: As the pope's health continues to deteriorate, thousands of people have gathered in St. Peter's Square, holding vigil, praying for the pope. Praying for his speedy recovery. Some praying as they look up at the lights on the third floor there, in the papal residence, that the suffering of the pope will come to an end and that he passes peacefully.

Pope John Paul is revered as a man who stood up for equal rights and the sanctity of human dignity. He made many pronouncements on these issues and sometimes sounded contradictory in reconciling doctrinal and morale issues. Heidi Collins reports.

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HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Some have called Pope John Paul II a controversial figure, but profoundly contradictory may be a better description.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: Social organization exist only for the service of man and for the protection of his dignity, and that it cannot claim to serve the common good when human rights are not safeguarded.

COLLINS: Politically, the pope has been very much a modern man, a man famously in favor of freedom. The pontiff, from once Communist Poland, who heroically stood against Communism all over the world.

WILTON WYNN, AUTHOR, "KEEPERS OF THE KEYS": He thought once the yolk was removed of Communism that there would be a great spiritual revival, which would spill over into the West. That was his dream, but that certainly has not worked.

COLLINS: On the other hand, where doctrine was concerned, he has not been modern at all. An unwavering traditionalist, a rejecter of reform, a pope who held the line.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Particularly in issues of sexual morality, that tend to be very important in the developed West, whether it's abortion or birth control or gay rights or the role of women, where the pope's vision has not won a broad, popular following.

COLLINS: Pope John Paul II held the line on the place of women in the church, rejecting appeals, heard with particular fervor in the U.S. for the ordination of women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your God, is king.

PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It's a matter of justice, it is a matter of inclusion. We can use all the rhetoric we like to try to kid ourselves that women are equal in this church, but they will never be equal until they can be ordained.

COLLINS: He held the line on divorce. The church continues to be unalterably against it. He held the line on abortion, legalized extermination, he once called it. And on birth control.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: Only a higher moral vision can motivate the choice for life.

COLLINS: He held the line on the assimilation of openly gay and lesbian men and women into the clergy and against same-sex marriage. In his recent book, "Memory and Identity" he wrote that homosexuality was part of an ideology of evil, which insidiously threatens society.

WYNN: When he came to power, when he was elected, he realized one thing he had to do was to restore clarity to Catholic teaching. And he says, OK, maybe they won't obey. Maybe they don't accept, but at least they'll know what the church stands for.

SISTER JOAN: He seems to have adopted the position of the philosophers and theologians from about the 13th century.

COLLINS: In the end, Pope John Paul II, controversial, a man of opposites, an anti-Communist freedom fighter, and an unbending defender of the faith; a man of the future and of the past. Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.

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MANN: Before he was Pope John Paul II, he was Karol Wojtyla, a cleric with an enormous impact in the land of his birth. Chris Burns reports now from Poland.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Elaine O'Rourke and my son Brendan had been diagnosed with AIDS when he was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing --

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CHRIS BURNS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ... for Wadowice's favorite son. The pope spoke of a cream pastry --

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brendan had been diagnosed with AIDS, when his was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing.

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BURNS: Lay in the shadow of the town's main church. Now a museum, Karol Wojtyla's birthplace documents an arduous life long trek to the top.

Karol Wojtyla was born here May 18, 1920. His father, Karol, Sr., an army officer, his mother, Amelia (ph), a school teacher. The Wojtylas were strict Catholics, they didn't share the anti-Semitic views of many Poles. In a town with 8,000 Catholics and 2,000 Jews, Karol Wojtyla had Jewish classmates, many of them perished in the Holocaust.

Childhood friends say death in Wojtyla's family forced young Karol to quickly become a man. His mother died of heart and kidney ailments when he was nine. Three years later, tragedy struck again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I would say he lost his childhood at 12, when he lost his brother. There was no youthful folly in him. Even when he played sports he was very concentrated. But, of course, he had a lot of passion. He was a very noble person and he expressed things in a very noble way, but there was no folly.

BURNS: After graduating from high school, Wojtyla he went to Krakow to study literature and philosophy at Yagalonia (ph) University. He also joined an experimental theater, Denuta Michalovska (ph) first met him there in 1938.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was in high school. He was 18, strong, handsome. You could sense this strong personality.

BURNS: After Hitler's army invaded Poland the following year, Wojtyla worked in a quarry to avoid deportation to Germany as a slave laborer. He secretly studied to become a priest, though he continued with his acting. Michalovska remembers how Wojtyla came dressed in his overalls from the quarry and told her to buy this book, "King's Spirit" for a performance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He had this inner radiance, but he didn't lose time on small talk. He didn't participate in our jokes and he wouldn't flirt. Maybe some women were disillusioned, but I couldn't imagine this kind of contact.

BURNS: From youth to adulthood, Wojtyla developed a spirit and stamina he would need as history's most traveled pope. His favorite sports, hiking, skiing, rowing, soccer and hockey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He made use of every hour when he played soccer, he sacrificed himself. He was full of passion and played as goalkeeper. And everyone was shouting his name, because he would make every effort to defend the goal. He also played hockey. And at one time, the puck hit him on the brow. He had a scar from it.

BURNS: One of many scars from youth, physical and emotional, that gave Karol Wojtyla the resolve to leave his mark on this earth.

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MANN: CNN's Chris Burns reporting from Wadowice.

VERJEE: Pope John Paul II visited San Francisco, California in 1987 at the height of that city's AIDS crisis. He held a mass that several AIDS patients attended, including Brendan O'Rourke, who wasn't quite five years old at the time. Brendan's mother fondly recalls her son's encounter with the pontiff.

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I'm Elaine O'Rourke and my son, Brendan, had been diagnosed with AIDS, when he was four years old. We were desperate for a cure for Brendan, but we were not seeing this as a way to have Brendan cured, just as a way to bring comfort and blessing to him and our family.

We were sitting right about here when the pope came in, and we were surrounded by, you know, all sorts of faithful. And as he made his way up, we were very excited. And then he paused here, stopped. That's when the whole embrace happened and Brendan reached out and the pope embraced him. Everyone around us was clapping and you see a lot of people had tears in their eyes. It was beautiful and quite memorable. It seemed so natural.

And the grabbing of the pope's ear, that was just something Brendan did when anybody was hugging him or holding him. A good, cold ear was something Brendan liked to grab on to.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: God loves you. God loves you all. He loves those of you who are sick, those who are suffering from AIDS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It introduced aids to the world, I think, in a way that they hadn't been willing to see it before. It was seen as a disease that only certain people were getting and instead of just a disease that people were getting. This broke down barriers, I believe, put a human face on the tragedy.

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VERJEE: Brendan O'Rourke died in 1990 at the age of seven.

MANN: Let's just bring you up to date, very quickly, the pope remains in very serious condition with a high fever. He is said to be responding to those around him. VERJEE: We will continue our coverage as we bring updates from Rome in just a few moments. This is CNN.

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