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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Pope Lies in State in St. Peter's Basilica

Aired April 04, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Rome. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The pope lies in state in St. Peter's Basilica. Tens of thousands come to say good-bye.

A special edition of 360 starts now.

ANNOUNCER: Soul departed, body at peace, the people's pope returned to the people. From all walks of life, all over the world, line up to say their final farewells to their beloved Holy Father.

Tonight, a special edition of 360 live from Rome. We remember Pope John Paul II.

She was just 18 months old when the pope picked her up as he greeted thousands of worshipers in St. Peter's Square. Then shots rang out. The pope was hit, but the baby was safe. Tonight, that little baby, now 26 years old, reflects on the pope's death and her story of how she became the little baby that saved the pope's life.

Amid the preparation to elect a new pope, one big mystery looms in the Vatican air, a secret cardinal named by the pope himself. Who is this hidden man? And will his identity be revealed? Tonight, a look at the tradition and significance behind this ancient ritual wrapped in a veil of secrecy.

And the man who stood by the pope for more than 40 years, the one who held the Holy Father's hand at the end of his life. Tonight, we profile Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz and the father and son relationship that lasted nearly half a century.

Live from Rome, this is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: Good evening again from Rome.

It has been an extraordinary day here in Rome and in Vatican City. Want to show you what is happening right now in St. Peter's Square, where tens of thousands have been coming, standing in long lines, waiting for hours just to get one final glimpse of their pontiff.

Inside St. Peter's Basilica, the view is extraordinary. The pope lying in state, his soul departed, his body at peace, people filing past, some praying, some speaking to the pontiff, some trying to take photographs, some just wanting to be there to get one last glimpse of the pope that they have come to love as their own.

Outside, again, this line snakes far down, thousands of feet outside St. Peter's Basilica, down the avenues and the boulevards, people just waiting for hours, standing by this obelisk that you see in the foreground. In the foreground, you can actually see in the black. Those are statutes of apostles that ring St. Peter's Square. The obelisk, which was brought from Egypt, built 1,800 years before Christ, brought here in 37 A.D. by the Emperor Caligula, placed here in St. Peter's Square in the mid-1500s.

An extraordinary sight here, a sight we will be watching all evening long. It is estimated that some 100,000 people came to see or are still on line to see the pope. And those numbers will soon be dwarfed. Some 2 million pilgrims are expected to come and pay their respects one final time to this pope, Pope John Paul II, the third longest-reigning pope in Catholic Church history.

We have a lot to cover this evening, and the images will be extraordinary. We are going to introduce you to some people you have never met before and bring you to places inside the Vatican you have likely never seen before.

We begin with the look back at the day that was.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): A slow and solemn procession carried Pope John Paul II on one last journey from his home in the Apostolic Palace to St. Peter's Basilica above what will become his final resting place.

And what a journey it was, borne on the shoulders of the papal gentlemen, men from distinguished families whose job it is to care for the pontiff in life and in death, and flanked by the elite Swiss Guard, protectors of the papacy for centuries.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, the Swiss Guards are a police force, if you like, for the pope. The origins date back to the Renaissance period, when the pope was still a secular monarch in central Italy. And they are aptly named, because the requirement to be a member of the Swiss Guard you must be a Swiss citizen. You must have done military service. You must be a baptized Catholic.

COOPER: Tears mixed with cheers. As the procession made its way into St. Peter's Square, dozens upon dozens representing the ranks of religious life, monks, priests, bishops, cardinals, accompanying the pope while tens of thousands watched and mourned.

(on camera): While this was a very public event today, in St. Peter's Square it was also a very private moment. You see lots of young people writing messages to the pope on sheets which have been laid on the ground or writing on pieces of paper that are stuck onto lampposts. People wanted to be here to get one last glimpse of the pope many of the people here have known their entire lives.

(voice-over): They got that glimpse as the procession paused and turned the pope to face the crowd one final time.

While parts of the pomp and circumstance of saying good-bye to the pope have been refined, the ritual grew from ancient roots and centuries of tradition. A church document sets the precise ceremony for laying the pontiff to rest, right down to the robes in which he's buried, crimson and white, symbolizing fire and purity, his miter a lasting symbol of his authority.

ALLEN: The pope, in addition to being pope, is also -- was also, at an earlier stage in his career, a cardinal. And that crimson is also a reminder of his identity as a cardinal. Cardinals wear crimson, by the way, because they take oaths of loyalty to the church up to the shedding of their own blood.

The white miter that was placed upon the pope's head is the traditional bishop's headgear, so to speak. It has one horn in front, one horn in back, symbolizing the Old and New Testaments.

COOPER: Inside St. Peter's, a simple service, the liturgy of the word, a reading from the Gospel, presided over by the camerlengo, the cardinal in charge during the interregnum, the time between popes.

Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo was appointed to that position years ago by his friend, John Paul II.

ALLEN: He knew, obviously, he -- Martinez Somalo knew that this day must come at some stage, and so has been preparing himself, in some sense, to exercise these responsibilities for an awful long time.

COOPER: We now know the pope will be buried on Friday morning, following an elaborate funeral mass, also dictated by tradition. And, like half his predecessors, he'll be buried in the grotto under St. Peter's, in a crypt that once belonged to Pope John XXIII, whose remains have been moved to the main floor of the basilica.

Until then, Pope John Paul II belongs once more to his flock, the faithful he served, who now file past with one final prayer, a last good-bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I was in St. Peter's Square earlier today when the pope's body was moved into the basilica. It was an extraordinarily moving moment. And I had a video camera. We'll be showing you some of those images later on in the program.

CNN's Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher, you got an actual audience to see the pope this morning with other long-time Vatican correspondents. What was that like?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, to be honest, it was very difficult. I mean, it's difficult to see somebody who was once so full of life and so vital in that state. And the pope looked a bit pained, as if he had really suffered this -- these last dying days. So I think it was a very difficult moment for all of us who are so used to being close to this man and (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... COOPER: And yet, I mean, today in the square, I was talking to people, and yes, there was sadness and there was mourning, but there was also a real sense of celebration, of celebrating this man's life.

GALLAGHER: Yes, well, you notice now the mood has changed slightly. You know, I think that they've come to the acceptance. They're no longer sort of disoriented about the fact that he's died and this big event is upon us. There's a sort of acceptance now about it. And so there's even been singing in the square and so on. And I think that the crowd is really projecting that warmth.

COOPER: Now, all day, for the last several days, we have been saying that there are 117 cardinals who are eligible to vote in the conclave for this new pope, because those are the number of cardinals under the age of 18. I've just heard today for the first time from you that there may be 118th cardinal, a secret cardinal, that no one knows about. What is this?

GALLAGHER: Well, the difficulty is that it, there is a cardinal who's is nominated in pectore, pectore meaning (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COOPER: What does that mean, in pectore?

GALLAGHER: Pectore is the Latin word for breast. So it's in the pectore of the pope. And...

COOPER: So it's secret.

GALLAGHER: ... it's a secret cardinal, yes. And the difficulty is that under church law, it has to be announced by the pope. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) he is the only person who can make it public.

COOPER: Why would he make a secret cardinal, though?

GALLAGHER: Well, a secret cardinal is made if, for example, there's a difficult political situation in a country with the Catholic Church and the government of the country, and perhaps making a cardinal, making somebody a cardinal would cause his life to be in danger.

COOPER: For instance, China, where this...

GALLAGHER: Exactly, bishop in China.

COOPER: ... the it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- right.

GALLAGHER: Who is one of the people that was considered to be this cardinal in pectore. However, the problem is now that the pope has died, there is no way to know who this cardinal was, and...

COOPER: How, he never told anybody? I don't understand.

GALLAGHER: Well, no. It's secret. It's in his pectore. So he died with him, as it were. And even if he had written it down, let us say, I think that there would be a difficulty in church law in saying, OK, this is the cardinal, because how would you verify that the pope actually wrote that, et cetera? So (UNINTELLIGIBLE) according to church law, the cardinal in pectore remains in pectore and will never officially be a cardinal. And probably he himself doesn't know.

COOPER: He doesn't even know that he was made a cardinal by the pope.

GALLAGHER: Right. So it's so secret that only the pope should know.

COOPER: Fascinating. Amazing. Delia Gallagher, thanks very much, Vatican analyst.

A lot of us who are covering this funeral and these remarkable events that are taking place are really Johnny-come-latelies in the world of Vatican reporting. CNN's Delia Gallagher has been here for many years.

Someone else who has been here for a very long time is CNN's Jim Bittermann. He, in fact, was in St. Peter's Square when this pope, who has just died, was made the pope. And so these last days have been for him particularly poignant.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For me, this was the hardest thing to take, seeing the pope gasping and rasping and trying to talk. John Paul II was the man we had called the great communicator.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: God loves you.

BITTERMANN: And it was painful to remember how well he had once communicated, how vital and animated. To see that old video, the pope with his actor's sense of timing and minimalist gestures, he never lost it, not even at the end.

(on camera): The pope's popularity may help the church through a difficult theological period. Little did those of us who started trailing the pope back in 1978 know what a long and wide path we were on. But then, he didn't either. Have no fear of the unknown, he once said, step out fearlessly.

(voice-over): He always did, even after fearless behavior very nearly cost him his life one awful day back in 1981.

His writings were sometimes clear, sometimes obscure. When he confronted communism on those two early trips to Poland, his words and his body language could not have been more direct. At other times, as in Castro's Cuba, he used us to do his heavy lifting, avoiding straightforward confrontation, full well knowing that we would scour the papal speeches and count how many times he managed to say the words "freedom" and "liberty" in other contexts, and then write how tough he'd been.

It was amazing how effortlessly he won over the media. Early on, he got to know many in the Vatican press corps personally and would ask about their families.

But we were always in the back of the plane, the pope and his aides up front. And as time passed, there was less and less opportunity to have any contact with John Paul. Once in a while, the Vatican would arrange a photo-op for journalists, but just that. The last full-fledged news conference he held was on the way to Cuba in 1998.

After that, physically he was in a steady and inexorable decline. Even so, the papal events still could amaze you. Those incredible crowds scenes, the neverending ways people would reach out to him.

There's nothing better for a journalist than to feel like you're witnessing history. And right up to the end of the road with John Paul, we always did.

The sad thing to me is that, especially for younger people, this is the memory many will have of the pope. The memory I prefer to save is something like this one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: Anderson, you know, when people ask me why we're spending so much time covering the pope's funeral, I remind them about the history of the papacy, but also about the pope we once knew, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Jim, I mean, it's got to be an extraordinary time for you, especially, having, you, I mean, you were in St. Peter's Square when this pope was made the pope. What was that day like contrasted to today?

BITTERMANN: Well, it actually, as a reporter, was kind of a disaster. I was working for another network. And we had had a bad call on the white smoke, because we saw what we thought was white smoke coming up, and it was a gray day. It was actually meant to be black smoke.

And so we went on the air and said that -- I didn't do it personally, it was one of my fellow reporters -- went on the air and said, in fact, there's been a new pope elected. But there's only one way of telling whether a new pope has been elected, and that's if someone 45 minutes later appears on the balcony and right at the center of St. Peter's there behind me.

And when nobody came out after 45 minutes, we realized we blew it, and we had to called it wrong.

COOPER: Well, you're being a gentleman in not naming who that person was, Jim, as always. Jim Bittermann, thanks very much. That was a great story.

It was -- it has been really a truly remarkable day for all of us who have been in St. Peter's Square today, seeing the faithful come just to get a glimpse of their pope. CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, was just inside St. Peter's Basilica. We'll be talking to her coming up very shortly.

We're also going to tell you the story of a woman who was just a girl, but who, some say, saved the pope's life in 1981 when he was shot twice by an assassin. We'll have her story coming up.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: May 13, 1981, the images hard to forget. The motorcade whizzing away, the crowd wailing, crying, some screaming, the pope crumpled over, held by the arms of his security personnel.

He'd been shot twice by a would-be assassin, that day, 1981, a terrible day indeed.

Some say his life, though, was saved by a little girl, a little girl who has now become a woman.

CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, has her story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Thousands gathered to say good-bye to their spiritual leader in the very square where he was nearly killed more than two decades ago.

It was May 13, 1981. The pope picked up a baby girl as he greeted worshipers in St. Peter's Square. A gunman aimed and fired. The pope was hit. The baby was not.

SARA BARTOLI (through translator): Spontaneously, I'd say that I did save his life, but actually, perhaps, he saved mine. In a way, he protected me a bit, like a father would.

VINCI: The would-be assassin, Mehmet Ali Agca, a Turkish militant, would later say he couldn't aim properly because the baby was so close.

They call her the baby that saved the pope's life.

Today, Sara Bartoli is 26 and remembers nothing of that incident when she was just 18 months old. What she knows, she learned from articles and letters her parents collected.

BARTOLI: Because you see me in the pope's arms, and then suddenly he's fired upon and falls to the ground, people wrote to me. They were scared about what happened to me.

VINCI: All the media attention about what happened eventually took its toll. And Sara's devotion to the pontiff waned until she saw his frail condition on Easter Sunday. BARTOLI: I realized that after 24 years, something opened up, and I cried. And only a few days later, he died, and all my emotions overflowed.

VINCI: Years later, the pope visited the gunman in jail to tell him he was forgiven. Now, Ali Agca says, the death of the man he once tried to kill brings him great sadness. Sara is now married and nine months pregnant. The death of John Paul II and the imminent birth of her child have her reflecting on the cycle of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (through translator): It's a immense coincidence, especially if you look at all the news papers announcing his death. Many show photos of the pope with a child in his arm, a symbol of death, but also a symbol of life and the future.

VINCI: Sara says she is deeply saddened by John Paul's death, but is looking forward to telling her child how she became the baby that saved the pope.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A quick news note now on the man who shot the pope, Mehmet Ali Agca, said today from his Turkish prison that he is quote -- well, he's mourning the death of what he called his spiritual brother, meaning the pope. And that he said he actually wants to attend the funeral, if you can believe it. Agca seriously injured the pope during that assassination attempt, of course. He served almost 20 years behind bars in Italy, before being extradited to Turkey to serve time for earlier crimes there. And as Alessio told you in 1983 the pope met with Agca in his Italian prison to personally forgive him for the shooting.

There's a number of other stories we are following right now.

Let's get a quick update of headlines from Sophia Choi -- Sophia.

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS: Anderson, the White House is rolling out the welcome mat for a Eastern European ally. Today President Bush and new elected Ukrainian president, Victor Yushchenko, discussed Iraq's reconstruction. Ukraine is withdrawing it's troops from Iraq, but Yushchenko say he's committed to pursuing the training of Iraqi security forces.

President Bush today handed out the first Medal of Honor for the Iraq War. It is the highest U.S. combat declaration. Army First Class Sgt. Paul Smith's 11-year-old son accepted the award exactly two years after his father's death. Smith died defending fellow soldiers at Baghdad International Airport. The military says, he saved dozens of lives when he grabbed a machine gun and fought off Iraqi attackers.

More rain is expected later this week in severely flooded parts of central and northern New Jersey. The state's governor thinks property damage will run about $30 million. Thirty-five hundred people who were forced out of their homes this weekend, aren't expected to be able to return home these days.

A young man from Michael Jackson's past broke down in tears today as he testified in the pop singers molestation trial. The now 24- year-old man claims Jackson fondled him 15-years-ago. The witness settled his own molestation lawsuit with Jackson out of court. Prosecutors say the man was paid $2.4 million.

And meet them in St. Louis. In about two hours Illinois faces off against North Carolina in the men's NCAA Final. A win for Illinois would give the Illini their first ever national championship. A INC victory would give the Tar Heels their fourth national title.

And those are the headlines -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sophia, thanks very much. When we come back from this special edition of 360 we will take you inside St. Peter's Basilica with CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. We'll also have my "Reporters Notebook" from St. Peter's Square earlier today when the pope emerged and the faithful, tens of thousands who gathered got to see him one last time.

We'll be right back as we take this live pictures of St. Peter's Basilica.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It was an extraordinary day, such emotion as the pope was brought out on his way to St. Peter's Basilica. People wanted to take photographs. Just wanting to get close, however they could, to see their pope for one last glimpse.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour was in St. Peter's Basilica just a short time ago.

What is it like inside?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's quite incredible because, he was lying on view for the private as you can say for the last 24 hours. Then today he went into St. Peter's Basilica, and there are something like 70,000 people lined up waiting. And they've been waiting for hours, and they've been waiting for hours. And we talked to people out there, even small children. There was an 8-year-old girl there, who had come with her dead grandfather's rosary to go and pay respects to the pope. But they say they're going to wait days and days if it takes that to get in. You go in, for all the hours that you spend waiting, you get no time at all inside.

COOPER: It's very fast moving.

AMANPOUR: It is. Because they have to get all these people around, so people are making signs of the cross. They're just saying a few words, mouthing a few words, but not able to stay, kneel and pray by any means. The pope looking as you can imagine, embalmed, small. It's interesting, I've been listening to people describe him, and some say he has a serene, others say he looks a little emaciated. But it's a little of both there. But people are very happy to get in. And they're waiting as long as it takes.

COOPER: It's so moving, even to be standing where we are and sort of hear this music and chanting just drifting across the air, sort of sweeping over Vatican City. It's a very moving evening.

AMANPOUR: It is, actually. And it's quite dramatic. Because when you walk into St. Peter's Basilica, I mean, of a sudden look -- just look at this place. It is huge, the vault that was planned and painted by Michelangelo. The vaulted ceilings, the dome, the sculpture and statue of all the saints, previous popes. The music that is filling the cavernous building, and there are also prayers. And I think what's really interesting is the number of heads of state, also, who are going to come, government leaders. And we heard the president of Syria is looking to come.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Indeed. We don't know whether he actually will. But it's so significant, because Syria in 2001 is where the pope set foot for first time inside a mosque.

COOPER: The first pope to do so.

AMANPOUR: Exactly. The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, the most beautiful 1,300-year-old mosque where the remains of John the Baptist are buried -- entombed. And it's just really incredibly significant, and all these moments have so much resonance with history and so much significance about the way this pope touched, not only vast numbers of people, but was able to bring vast numbers of different ethnic groups, different religions together.

COOPER: Interesting, when I was in the square today, and I'm sure you had this feeling in the Basilica as well, yes, this is a media event, there are thousands of reporters here, there are cameras everywhere. But you don't really feel -- I mean, we've been on stories where it really feels as if sort of orchestrated for the media. This really feels like you are seeing history and the life of the church, happening whether or not we would be here.

I mean, it's an extraordinary feeling, sort of rich in tradition and ritual.

AMANPOUR: Well, yes. And I think, in short, we the cameras, we the reporters are flies on the wall this time.

COOPER: Absolutely. Yes.

AMANPOUR: We're not taking necessarily part. There these huge crowds who very reverent, the sadness is sort of dissipating and the sort of grief is dissipating. And now it's a question of going, doing the duty of paying last respects. Quite silent. You'd think that these huge crowd that there would be a lot of noise, a lot of hubbub. But, no, quite silent.

COOPER: And no pushing, no shoving.

AMANPOUR: Guards and police handing out water bottles, helping people who need help.

COOPER: Yes, I've never seen anything like it. Christiane Amanpour, thanks very much.

ANNOUNCER: Soul departed -- body at piece, the people's pope returned to the people tonight from all walks of life, all over the world, line to say their final farewells to their beloved holy father. And the man who stood by the pope for more than 40 years, the one who held the holy father's hand at the end of his life. Tonight we profile Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz and the father and son relationship that lasted nearly a half century. This special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360 will continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And there you see some of the many of tens of thousands of people quickly filing past the body of Pope John Paul II. Christiane Amanpour, was saying just a few moments ago, there's some 70,000 people right now waiting in line, waiting for the opportunity to see him and it's 1:34 a.m. here in Vatican City.

A truly remarkable day. We're trying to get as many different angles on this story as possible. Trying to put cameras in as many different places as possible. Earlier today I was in St. Peter's Square when the pope's body was taken out and moved to St. Peter's Basilica. I brought a little home video camera and just took some images of what it was like in the square far away from the big media cameras, the television cameras. Just amongst the people who were all waiting -- waiting to see their pope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): They waited for hours to see their pontiff. They waited for hours for one final glimpse. In St. Peter's sun- kissed square there was no pushing, no shoving just somber faces with smiles of old friends. A giant bell rang out, the sound nearly lost amid the songs and sounds, the prayers for the pope.

The crowds have been building for the last several hours. The square is now packed, it's hard to move around. There are giant video monitors which have been set up, so the crowd can see the pope's body lying in state. No one is exactly sure where the pope's body will be brought. People are -- they're certain avenues that can be opened up in the crowd, but no one is exactly sure where his body is going to be taken. Everyone wanted to get close enough to try to see the pope. They know they won't be ale to touch him, though many would no doubt like to. But they just want to see him, one glimpse of him in person.

(on camera): You wish you were taller?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. I do. I'm only 5' and I can't see very much. I've been holding my camera up hoping that it will take something and I'm straining to see the screen. But, yes, I wish I was taller.

COOPER (voice-over): Sister Elizabeth Morris (ph), an Australian nun stood on her tip toes, but the crowd was too big, people too tall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See that screen's a little bigger, but it's too far away.

COOPER: A young girl sat on the shoulders of her father taking pictures for strangers who gave her their phones.

(voice-over): In America we've become seeing makeshift memorials spring up in the wake of national tragedies. Well, here in Italy the tradition is a little different. People leave cards and messages and flowers by lamp posts. In St. Peter's Square there are half a dozen lamp posts, and all of them are filled with personal messages to the pope. This one says gracias, thank you, we love you. Adios, Karol. Children left drawings, their portraits of the pontiff.

5-year-old Mikal (ph) simply scribbled his name.

"The pope is like flowers," he said. He make me think of flowers.

(on camera): It's not just a sense of mourning here in St. Peter's Square, there is certainly that, there is sadness. But there's also joy, a celebration of the life of a remarkable man and an extraordinary pope.

(voice-over): When his body appeared there were tears and applause. Those unable to see watched the TVs very closely.

(on camera): It's certainly an event that is being broadcast around the world, but standing here in St. Peter's Square you don't get the sense that this is a media event, there are not many cameras around. All the media are sequestered hundreds of yards of over there in the bleachers. Standing to the crowd there's an intimacy to it. It's extraordinarily moving.

CASEY SHAVER, PENNSYLVANIA: To be surrounded by it all and actually see it happening in front of you with your own eyes, Just something you can't describe. It's really amazing.

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ... on the screen of course.

SHAVER: When they carry him through around the church.

PETER REALI, NEW YORK: When (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) responding so much grief.

COOPER: You waited three hours?

REALI: Yes, I'm not. And it was unbelievable experience.

COOPER: Were you disappointed not to actually see him in person or...

REALI: No, we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on brighter parts. You know, we have him in here, in our hearts. COOPER (voice-over): Even those who didn't get close to the body came away feeling they had seen the pope. One man told us John Paul is dead, but we still keep him alive in our hearts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I apologize for some of the camera work, I'm clearly not a professional cameraman. But I wanted to try to get as many different angles on the story as possible. I wanted to show you what it was actually like standing there amidst those tens of thousands of people. It's really and truly a remarkable experience, a great privilege.

CNN's Delia Gallagher, a Vatican analyst, is with us. There's an interesting CNN/"USA Today"/Gallop poll that's out. I want to talk about some of the results and get your take on it. Seventy-eight percent of American Catholics -- American Catholics very significantly, said the next pope should allow birth control. Very little chance of that actually happening.

GALLAGHER: Well, probably not. On the other hand, the teaching on birth control is a moral teaching, so it could technically change. But I think have you to understand that obviously the Vatican doesn't change in teaching just because of a poll. However, their teachings are based within a whole sort of theology. And this pope, for example, spent a lot of time on what is called the theology of the body and sort of went into the reasons why all of these moral teachings are as they are. And so if it were to change, it would have to -- the church would have to relook this whole theology. They would have to rethink the whole theology. So, not a simple matter of saying, well, you know, people are using it now a days, so maybe it would be a good thing. They have to go back and review this whole -- in the whole system of their theology of their thinking.

COOPER: This poll, 63 percent of American Catholics believe the next pope should allow priests to marry. Is that likely to change.

GALLAGHER: Again -- well, again, it's a similar thing whereby the church considers the priests are already married. It considers them married to God. And in a marriage, this is a man and a woman, are sort of in this total commitment. So the priest is in a total commitment to God. So, again you have to consider the theology of the thing, and then the practical situation, which is perhaps vocations and so on, which are some of the arguments people use to say, well, we should allow priests to marry. And, let's be clear here -- a lot of -- these are polls of American Catholics, but they are still represented here at the Vatican. So, you know, it is something that is discussed.

COOPER: Well, also, perhaps, I mean, what I think is interesting about this poll it shows the difference that between American Catholics and Catholics around the world. I mean I think the Vatican would be quick to point out that, just because American Catholics think this, there are a whole other world of Catholics out there.

GALLAGHER: Yes, well, and again, I think you can have as many viewpoints in different countries as you want, but perhaps American Catholics make their voice known a little bit louder, whereas other countries might be more accepting of the tradition of the church, and more willing to accept that tradition and not really want to see it change.

COOPER: Not as quick to poll on every particular subject.

GALLAGHER: No, no.

COOPER: CNN's Delia Gallagher, thanks very much. Our special coverage continues in a moment. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: 1:43 a.m. in Vatican City. There you see the Swiss guards guarding the body of Pope John Paul II who continues to lie in St. Peter's Basilica as tens of thousands of people, even at this late hour, continue to pass through to get one last glimpse of the pontiff. An extraordinary day.

There are -- in all the photos you have seen of the pope, during his reign, it is likely you have seen one man standing by his side, the same man for more than 40 years now, his most trusted friend and confidante. You may not know his name but we can guarantee you everyone who works in the Vatican does.

Chris Burns, now, profiles the right-hand man of Pope John Paul II.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...fell bleeding from an assassin's bullet in 1981, Monsignor Stanislaus Dziwisz caught him in his arms.

The pope later said the last thing he remembered telling Dziwisz, he forgave his assailant. And amid the pope's declining health, Dziwisz also considered a fall back for his boss. As the pope's personal secretary, papal analysts say the Polish-born Dziwisz, known in the Vatican as Don Stanislaus, was increasingly influential while the pope weakened. Just how influential is unclear.

HENRYK WOZNIAKOWSKI: He's an extremely faithful servant for the pope.

ROBERTO SURO, PEW HISPANIC CENTER: He progressed up to, maybe, sort of a kind of chief-of-staff or chief executive assistant.

BURNS: With a 19-year age difference, their relationship was at first one of father and son. Legend has it they met skiing in Zakopane, Karol Wojtyla's spiritual retreat. Like Wojtyla, he grew up poor, born in a southern mountain village, not far from the pontiff's hometown, Wadowice.

As Wojtyla led the church in Poland during communist rule, he ordained Dziwisz as a priest in 1963, and named him his personal secretary three years later. At the Vatican Dziwisz played the pope's gatekeeper, his right hand man, his chief confidante, a heartbeat away. He slept steps away from the pope's bedroom and stood by the pontiff's shoulder during mass. In recent years, as the pope's health waned, analysts say the father-son relationship changed. They say Dziwisz's voice increasingly carried weight.

SURO: Inside the Vatican when, Dziwisz spoke, the assumption was he spoke for the pope.

BURNS: One example, as the Iraq war approached, he was asked the pope's position. Without taking time to consult he said, the pontiff opposed it. With a bit of black humor, he jealously guarded the pope from prying reporters. Asked in 2003 about the pope's physical state he said, many journalists who in the past have written about the pope's health are already in heaven.

Vatican observers say Dziwisz played a consultative role including in deciding appointments and papal trips, and he was seen as a mediator among powerful Vatican personalities. Perhaps the greatest power Dziwisz wielded was access to the Holy See for the powerful and weak. While the pope was hospitalized in February, it was Dziwisz who invited a young cancer patient to visit the pontiff in his room.

It was Dziwisz's hand the pope was holding when he died; in naming him bishop in 1998, the pope told him you have stood faithfully by my side as secretary, sharing the works, the joys, the anxieties and hopes. Stanislaus Dziwisz is now gatekeeper of those memories, jealously guarding Karol Wojtyla's privacy even in the pontiffs death. Chris Burns, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: He held the pope's hand when he died.

We have a lot of other stories we are covering right now. Sophia Choi of "HEADLINE NEWS" brings us up to date.

CHOI: Anderson, yet another attack near Iraq's infamous Abu Ghraib prison follows a weekend of violence. A suicide bomber on a tractor blew himself up near the prison, injuring four civilians.

Saturday, U.S. military officials say a well coordinated attack involved dozens of insurgents who reportedly used car bombs, grenades and small arms fire. 23 U.S. soldiers and 13 detainees were wounded.

Today America saw the start of its largest anti-terror drill ever in New Jersey and Connecticut. Dozen of state and national agencies are involved. The $16 million drill will last all week long. Today it included a simulated bioterrorism attack and a simulated chemical weapons attack. U.S. Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff says the goal of the exercise is to push America's emergency planning to the limit in order to find weaknesses.

It will be a Saturday royal wedding instead of a Friday one. Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles are postponing their wedding for a day because of the pope's funeral. The prince will represent the royal family at the pope's funeral in Rome; Parker Bowles will not attend.

That's a look at the headlines -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sophia, thanks very much. Our special edition of 360 continues live from Rome tonight. We are going to look at the pope and pop culture. This weekend, U2s Bono called the pope the best front man the Catholic church has ever had. We'll talk about what influence the pope has had on popular culture.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: 1:51 a.m. in Vatican City. St. Peter's Basilica. Pope John Paul lying in state as tens of thousands of mourners come to pay their final respects.

We're going to want to look now at the pope and his role in popular culture. One of the perhaps odder images we saw a little over a year ago was the pope looking over some break dancers as they did an exhibition for his holiness. There it is. One of the more surprising images perhaps to come out of the Vatican City in the last couple of years. Rudi Bakhtiar now looks at the pope and popular culture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Paul II celebrating mass, sights and sounds Catholics worldwide would come to associate with their beloved pope.

But John Paul also loved Bob Dylan. The pope invited Bob Dylan to play for him at the World Eucharistic Congress in Bologna, Italy in 1997. The arts and popular culture playing a significant role in John Paul's life of passion and adventure.

That same year, B.B. King performed at the Vatican, and would grace his holiness with Lucille. He gave the pope one of his trademark guitars.

In 1999, the pope met with the likes of singer and Live Aid creator Bob Geldof, and Bono, the lead singer for U2, as they kicked off a campaign to reduce the debt of the world's poorest countries.

Here we see a glimpse of the papal cool factor.

BONO, US LEAD SINGER: That is for you. And also, my glasses.

BAKHTIAR: Of course, there were times the pope found himself at odds with pop culture.

When Madonna, wearing crosses and not much more, released her "Like a Prayer" video in 1989, the Vatican tried to ban her from performing in Italy. Madonna later tried unsuccessfully to gain an audience with the pope.

But perhaps the pope's most controversial pop culture moment came in 1992, when on "Saturday Night Live," a bald Irish rocker named Sinead O'Connor sings the Bob Marley song "War," and then rips the pope's picture to shreds.

SINEAD O'CONNOR, SINGER: Fight the real enemy.

BAKHTIAR: She was booed. NBC was flooded with protest calls, and O'Connor eventually apologized to the pope.

Controversy aside, though, this pope will be forever remembered for touching the young,evidenced by the crowds he grew to stadiums worldwide.

He was a veritable rock star among his young followers, many of whom were not yet born when he began his papal reign in 1978. Not bad for someone who never topped the pop chart, but did canonize 482 saints.

As the pope himself once said, I have a sweet tooth for song and music. This is my Polish sin.

Rudi Bakhtiar, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I didn't know that Bono actually gave him his glasses. I wonder if he actually put them on.

CNN's prime-time coverage is going to continue in just a few moments with Paula Zahn. Let's get a check of what Paula will be covering -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Anderson. As you have shown us, this is truly a historic time, so many coming to Rome. Millions, we are told, eventually, to witness the end of an era for the church and the beginning of a new one.

And tonight, we're going to show you the very human side of Pope John Paul, a boyfriend (sic) friend shares some very special memories.

And a look at the direction the next pope may take, and the problems he will face in the future. In particular, Anderson, we're going to focus on the issue of women in the church and show how this pope pretty much divided women.

COOPER: All right. Paula, we'll be watching. Thanks very much. That just in a few minutes from now.

360, though, continues. Our special report live from Rome. We'll take you back inside St. Peter's Basilica for one last look at Pope John Paul II. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And a live picture from Vatican City inside St. Peter's Basilica, at 1:58 a.m.

Tonight, taking awe to "The Nth Degree." It is safe to say this is the most casual age ever. It's an age of t-shirts, and jeans, of first names on first meetings, of slaps on backs and handshakes instead of curtsies and bows, which is why we find images like these so stunning, scenes like this so overwhelmingly powerful. We're dumbstruck. We're meant to be dumbstruck by ancient ritual, by the survival over millennia of ceremonies down to the their least little details, by the prescribed colors and patterns of embroidered cloth and embossed metal, by rites in which every word is dictated by ancient usage, and every gesture long since choreographed.

There is comfort in such ceremony, in the knowledge that every step and every stitch have meaning, and the realization that this rare and sad passage always has happened exactly this way, and probably always will. Outside these precincts, the blur of change is everywhere. Here -- well, just look around. No time has passed at all, not in centuries. In a world as completely casual as ours, this profound formality truly is stunning.

Thanks very much for watching this special edition of 360. CNN's prime-time coverage continues now with Paula Zahn -- Paula.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 4, 2005 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Rome. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The pope lies in state in St. Peter's Basilica. Tens of thousands come to say good-bye.

A special edition of 360 starts now.

ANNOUNCER: Soul departed, body at peace, the people's pope returned to the people. From all walks of life, all over the world, line up to say their final farewells to their beloved Holy Father.

Tonight, a special edition of 360 live from Rome. We remember Pope John Paul II.

She was just 18 months old when the pope picked her up as he greeted thousands of worshipers in St. Peter's Square. Then shots rang out. The pope was hit, but the baby was safe. Tonight, that little baby, now 26 years old, reflects on the pope's death and her story of how she became the little baby that saved the pope's life.

Amid the preparation to elect a new pope, one big mystery looms in the Vatican air, a secret cardinal named by the pope himself. Who is this hidden man? And will his identity be revealed? Tonight, a look at the tradition and significance behind this ancient ritual wrapped in a veil of secrecy.

And the man who stood by the pope for more than 40 years, the one who held the Holy Father's hand at the end of his life. Tonight, we profile Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz and the father and son relationship that lasted nearly half a century.

Live from Rome, this is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: Good evening again from Rome.

It has been an extraordinary day here in Rome and in Vatican City. Want to show you what is happening right now in St. Peter's Square, where tens of thousands have been coming, standing in long lines, waiting for hours just to get one final glimpse of their pontiff.

Inside St. Peter's Basilica, the view is extraordinary. The pope lying in state, his soul departed, his body at peace, people filing past, some praying, some speaking to the pontiff, some trying to take photographs, some just wanting to be there to get one last glimpse of the pope that they have come to love as their own.

Outside, again, this line snakes far down, thousands of feet outside St. Peter's Basilica, down the avenues and the boulevards, people just waiting for hours, standing by this obelisk that you see in the foreground. In the foreground, you can actually see in the black. Those are statutes of apostles that ring St. Peter's Square. The obelisk, which was brought from Egypt, built 1,800 years before Christ, brought here in 37 A.D. by the Emperor Caligula, placed here in St. Peter's Square in the mid-1500s.

An extraordinary sight here, a sight we will be watching all evening long. It is estimated that some 100,000 people came to see or are still on line to see the pope. And those numbers will soon be dwarfed. Some 2 million pilgrims are expected to come and pay their respects one final time to this pope, Pope John Paul II, the third longest-reigning pope in Catholic Church history.

We have a lot to cover this evening, and the images will be extraordinary. We are going to introduce you to some people you have never met before and bring you to places inside the Vatican you have likely never seen before.

We begin with the look back at the day that was.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): A slow and solemn procession carried Pope John Paul II on one last journey from his home in the Apostolic Palace to St. Peter's Basilica above what will become his final resting place.

And what a journey it was, borne on the shoulders of the papal gentlemen, men from distinguished families whose job it is to care for the pontiff in life and in death, and flanked by the elite Swiss Guard, protectors of the papacy for centuries.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, the Swiss Guards are a police force, if you like, for the pope. The origins date back to the Renaissance period, when the pope was still a secular monarch in central Italy. And they are aptly named, because the requirement to be a member of the Swiss Guard you must be a Swiss citizen. You must have done military service. You must be a baptized Catholic.

COOPER: Tears mixed with cheers. As the procession made its way into St. Peter's Square, dozens upon dozens representing the ranks of religious life, monks, priests, bishops, cardinals, accompanying the pope while tens of thousands watched and mourned.

(on camera): While this was a very public event today, in St. Peter's Square it was also a very private moment. You see lots of young people writing messages to the pope on sheets which have been laid on the ground or writing on pieces of paper that are stuck onto lampposts. People wanted to be here to get one last glimpse of the pope many of the people here have known their entire lives.

(voice-over): They got that glimpse as the procession paused and turned the pope to face the crowd one final time.

While parts of the pomp and circumstance of saying good-bye to the pope have been refined, the ritual grew from ancient roots and centuries of tradition. A church document sets the precise ceremony for laying the pontiff to rest, right down to the robes in which he's buried, crimson and white, symbolizing fire and purity, his miter a lasting symbol of his authority.

ALLEN: The pope, in addition to being pope, is also -- was also, at an earlier stage in his career, a cardinal. And that crimson is also a reminder of his identity as a cardinal. Cardinals wear crimson, by the way, because they take oaths of loyalty to the church up to the shedding of their own blood.

The white miter that was placed upon the pope's head is the traditional bishop's headgear, so to speak. It has one horn in front, one horn in back, symbolizing the Old and New Testaments.

COOPER: Inside St. Peter's, a simple service, the liturgy of the word, a reading from the Gospel, presided over by the camerlengo, the cardinal in charge during the interregnum, the time between popes.

Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo was appointed to that position years ago by his friend, John Paul II.

ALLEN: He knew, obviously, he -- Martinez Somalo knew that this day must come at some stage, and so has been preparing himself, in some sense, to exercise these responsibilities for an awful long time.

COOPER: We now know the pope will be buried on Friday morning, following an elaborate funeral mass, also dictated by tradition. And, like half his predecessors, he'll be buried in the grotto under St. Peter's, in a crypt that once belonged to Pope John XXIII, whose remains have been moved to the main floor of the basilica.

Until then, Pope John Paul II belongs once more to his flock, the faithful he served, who now file past with one final prayer, a last good-bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I was in St. Peter's Square earlier today when the pope's body was moved into the basilica. It was an extraordinarily moving moment. And I had a video camera. We'll be showing you some of those images later on in the program.

CNN's Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher, you got an actual audience to see the pope this morning with other long-time Vatican correspondents. What was that like?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, to be honest, it was very difficult. I mean, it's difficult to see somebody who was once so full of life and so vital in that state. And the pope looked a bit pained, as if he had really suffered this -- these last dying days. So I think it was a very difficult moment for all of us who are so used to being close to this man and (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... COOPER: And yet, I mean, today in the square, I was talking to people, and yes, there was sadness and there was mourning, but there was also a real sense of celebration, of celebrating this man's life.

GALLAGHER: Yes, well, you notice now the mood has changed slightly. You know, I think that they've come to the acceptance. They're no longer sort of disoriented about the fact that he's died and this big event is upon us. There's a sort of acceptance now about it. And so there's even been singing in the square and so on. And I think that the crowd is really projecting that warmth.

COOPER: Now, all day, for the last several days, we have been saying that there are 117 cardinals who are eligible to vote in the conclave for this new pope, because those are the number of cardinals under the age of 18. I've just heard today for the first time from you that there may be 118th cardinal, a secret cardinal, that no one knows about. What is this?

GALLAGHER: Well, the difficulty is that it, there is a cardinal who's is nominated in pectore, pectore meaning (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COOPER: What does that mean, in pectore?

GALLAGHER: Pectore is the Latin word for breast. So it's in the pectore of the pope. And...

COOPER: So it's secret.

GALLAGHER: ... it's a secret cardinal, yes. And the difficulty is that under church law, it has to be announced by the pope. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) he is the only person who can make it public.

COOPER: Why would he make a secret cardinal, though?

GALLAGHER: Well, a secret cardinal is made if, for example, there's a difficult political situation in a country with the Catholic Church and the government of the country, and perhaps making a cardinal, making somebody a cardinal would cause his life to be in danger.

COOPER: For instance, China, where this...

GALLAGHER: Exactly, bishop in China.

COOPER: ... the it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- right.

GALLAGHER: Who is one of the people that was considered to be this cardinal in pectore. However, the problem is now that the pope has died, there is no way to know who this cardinal was, and...

COOPER: How, he never told anybody? I don't understand.

GALLAGHER: Well, no. It's secret. It's in his pectore. So he died with him, as it were. And even if he had written it down, let us say, I think that there would be a difficulty in church law in saying, OK, this is the cardinal, because how would you verify that the pope actually wrote that, et cetera? So (UNINTELLIGIBLE) according to church law, the cardinal in pectore remains in pectore and will never officially be a cardinal. And probably he himself doesn't know.

COOPER: He doesn't even know that he was made a cardinal by the pope.

GALLAGHER: Right. So it's so secret that only the pope should know.

COOPER: Fascinating. Amazing. Delia Gallagher, thanks very much, Vatican analyst.

A lot of us who are covering this funeral and these remarkable events that are taking place are really Johnny-come-latelies in the world of Vatican reporting. CNN's Delia Gallagher has been here for many years.

Someone else who has been here for a very long time is CNN's Jim Bittermann. He, in fact, was in St. Peter's Square when this pope, who has just died, was made the pope. And so these last days have been for him particularly poignant.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For me, this was the hardest thing to take, seeing the pope gasping and rasping and trying to talk. John Paul II was the man we had called the great communicator.

POPE JOHN PAUL II: God loves you.

BITTERMANN: And it was painful to remember how well he had once communicated, how vital and animated. To see that old video, the pope with his actor's sense of timing and minimalist gestures, he never lost it, not even at the end.

(on camera): The pope's popularity may help the church through a difficult theological period. Little did those of us who started trailing the pope back in 1978 know what a long and wide path we were on. But then, he didn't either. Have no fear of the unknown, he once said, step out fearlessly.

(voice-over): He always did, even after fearless behavior very nearly cost him his life one awful day back in 1981.

His writings were sometimes clear, sometimes obscure. When he confronted communism on those two early trips to Poland, his words and his body language could not have been more direct. At other times, as in Castro's Cuba, he used us to do his heavy lifting, avoiding straightforward confrontation, full well knowing that we would scour the papal speeches and count how many times he managed to say the words "freedom" and "liberty" in other contexts, and then write how tough he'd been.

It was amazing how effortlessly he won over the media. Early on, he got to know many in the Vatican press corps personally and would ask about their families.

But we were always in the back of the plane, the pope and his aides up front. And as time passed, there was less and less opportunity to have any contact with John Paul. Once in a while, the Vatican would arrange a photo-op for journalists, but just that. The last full-fledged news conference he held was on the way to Cuba in 1998.

After that, physically he was in a steady and inexorable decline. Even so, the papal events still could amaze you. Those incredible crowds scenes, the neverending ways people would reach out to him.

There's nothing better for a journalist than to feel like you're witnessing history. And right up to the end of the road with John Paul, we always did.

The sad thing to me is that, especially for younger people, this is the memory many will have of the pope. The memory I prefer to save is something like this one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: Anderson, you know, when people ask me why we're spending so much time covering the pope's funeral, I remind them about the history of the papacy, but also about the pope we once knew, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Jim, I mean, it's got to be an extraordinary time for you, especially, having, you, I mean, you were in St. Peter's Square when this pope was made the pope. What was that day like contrasted to today?

BITTERMANN: Well, it actually, as a reporter, was kind of a disaster. I was working for another network. And we had had a bad call on the white smoke, because we saw what we thought was white smoke coming up, and it was a gray day. It was actually meant to be black smoke.

And so we went on the air and said that -- I didn't do it personally, it was one of my fellow reporters -- went on the air and said, in fact, there's been a new pope elected. But there's only one way of telling whether a new pope has been elected, and that's if someone 45 minutes later appears on the balcony and right at the center of St. Peter's there behind me.

And when nobody came out after 45 minutes, we realized we blew it, and we had to called it wrong.

COOPER: Well, you're being a gentleman in not naming who that person was, Jim, as always. Jim Bittermann, thanks very much. That was a great story.

It was -- it has been really a truly remarkable day for all of us who have been in St. Peter's Square today, seeing the faithful come just to get a glimpse of their pope. CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, was just inside St. Peter's Basilica. We'll be talking to her coming up very shortly.

We're also going to tell you the story of a woman who was just a girl, but who, some say, saved the pope's life in 1981 when he was shot twice by an assassin. We'll have her story coming up.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: May 13, 1981, the images hard to forget. The motorcade whizzing away, the crowd wailing, crying, some screaming, the pope crumpled over, held by the arms of his security personnel.

He'd been shot twice by a would-be assassin, that day, 1981, a terrible day indeed.

Some say his life, though, was saved by a little girl, a little girl who has now become a woman.

CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, has her story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Thousands gathered to say good-bye to their spiritual leader in the very square where he was nearly killed more than two decades ago.

It was May 13, 1981. The pope picked up a baby girl as he greeted worshipers in St. Peter's Square. A gunman aimed and fired. The pope was hit. The baby was not.

SARA BARTOLI (through translator): Spontaneously, I'd say that I did save his life, but actually, perhaps, he saved mine. In a way, he protected me a bit, like a father would.

VINCI: The would-be assassin, Mehmet Ali Agca, a Turkish militant, would later say he couldn't aim properly because the baby was so close.

They call her the baby that saved the pope's life.

Today, Sara Bartoli is 26 and remembers nothing of that incident when she was just 18 months old. What she knows, she learned from articles and letters her parents collected.

BARTOLI: Because you see me in the pope's arms, and then suddenly he's fired upon and falls to the ground, people wrote to me. They were scared about what happened to me.

VINCI: All the media attention about what happened eventually took its toll. And Sara's devotion to the pontiff waned until she saw his frail condition on Easter Sunday. BARTOLI: I realized that after 24 years, something opened up, and I cried. And only a few days later, he died, and all my emotions overflowed.

VINCI: Years later, the pope visited the gunman in jail to tell him he was forgiven. Now, Ali Agca says, the death of the man he once tried to kill brings him great sadness. Sara is now married and nine months pregnant. The death of John Paul II and the imminent birth of her child have her reflecting on the cycle of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (through translator): It's a immense coincidence, especially if you look at all the news papers announcing his death. Many show photos of the pope with a child in his arm, a symbol of death, but also a symbol of life and the future.

VINCI: Sara says she is deeply saddened by John Paul's death, but is looking forward to telling her child how she became the baby that saved the pope.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A quick news note now on the man who shot the pope, Mehmet Ali Agca, said today from his Turkish prison that he is quote -- well, he's mourning the death of what he called his spiritual brother, meaning the pope. And that he said he actually wants to attend the funeral, if you can believe it. Agca seriously injured the pope during that assassination attempt, of course. He served almost 20 years behind bars in Italy, before being extradited to Turkey to serve time for earlier crimes there. And as Alessio told you in 1983 the pope met with Agca in his Italian prison to personally forgive him for the shooting.

There's a number of other stories we are following right now.

Let's get a quick update of headlines from Sophia Choi -- Sophia.

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS: Anderson, the White House is rolling out the welcome mat for a Eastern European ally. Today President Bush and new elected Ukrainian president, Victor Yushchenko, discussed Iraq's reconstruction. Ukraine is withdrawing it's troops from Iraq, but Yushchenko say he's committed to pursuing the training of Iraqi security forces.

President Bush today handed out the first Medal of Honor for the Iraq War. It is the highest U.S. combat declaration. Army First Class Sgt. Paul Smith's 11-year-old son accepted the award exactly two years after his father's death. Smith died defending fellow soldiers at Baghdad International Airport. The military says, he saved dozens of lives when he grabbed a machine gun and fought off Iraqi attackers.

More rain is expected later this week in severely flooded parts of central and northern New Jersey. The state's governor thinks property damage will run about $30 million. Thirty-five hundred people who were forced out of their homes this weekend, aren't expected to be able to return home these days.

A young man from Michael Jackson's past broke down in tears today as he testified in the pop singers molestation trial. The now 24- year-old man claims Jackson fondled him 15-years-ago. The witness settled his own molestation lawsuit with Jackson out of court. Prosecutors say the man was paid $2.4 million.

And meet them in St. Louis. In about two hours Illinois faces off against North Carolina in the men's NCAA Final. A win for Illinois would give the Illini their first ever national championship. A INC victory would give the Tar Heels their fourth national title.

And those are the headlines -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sophia, thanks very much. When we come back from this special edition of 360 we will take you inside St. Peter's Basilica with CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. We'll also have my "Reporters Notebook" from St. Peter's Square earlier today when the pope emerged and the faithful, tens of thousands who gathered got to see him one last time.

We'll be right back as we take this live pictures of St. Peter's Basilica.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It was an extraordinary day, such emotion as the pope was brought out on his way to St. Peter's Basilica. People wanted to take photographs. Just wanting to get close, however they could, to see their pope for one last glimpse.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour was in St. Peter's Basilica just a short time ago.

What is it like inside?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's quite incredible because, he was lying on view for the private as you can say for the last 24 hours. Then today he went into St. Peter's Basilica, and there are something like 70,000 people lined up waiting. And they've been waiting for hours, and they've been waiting for hours. And we talked to people out there, even small children. There was an 8-year-old girl there, who had come with her dead grandfather's rosary to go and pay respects to the pope. But they say they're going to wait days and days if it takes that to get in. You go in, for all the hours that you spend waiting, you get no time at all inside.

COOPER: It's very fast moving.

AMANPOUR: It is. Because they have to get all these people around, so people are making signs of the cross. They're just saying a few words, mouthing a few words, but not able to stay, kneel and pray by any means. The pope looking as you can imagine, embalmed, small. It's interesting, I've been listening to people describe him, and some say he has a serene, others say he looks a little emaciated. But it's a little of both there. But people are very happy to get in. And they're waiting as long as it takes.

COOPER: It's so moving, even to be standing where we are and sort of hear this music and chanting just drifting across the air, sort of sweeping over Vatican City. It's a very moving evening.

AMANPOUR: It is, actually. And it's quite dramatic. Because when you walk into St. Peter's Basilica, I mean, of a sudden look -- just look at this place. It is huge, the vault that was planned and painted by Michelangelo. The vaulted ceilings, the dome, the sculpture and statue of all the saints, previous popes. The music that is filling the cavernous building, and there are also prayers. And I think what's really interesting is the number of heads of state, also, who are going to come, government leaders. And we heard the president of Syria is looking to come.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Indeed. We don't know whether he actually will. But it's so significant, because Syria in 2001 is where the pope set foot for first time inside a mosque.

COOPER: The first pope to do so.

AMANPOUR: Exactly. The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, the most beautiful 1,300-year-old mosque where the remains of John the Baptist are buried -- entombed. And it's just really incredibly significant, and all these moments have so much resonance with history and so much significance about the way this pope touched, not only vast numbers of people, but was able to bring vast numbers of different ethnic groups, different religions together.

COOPER: Interesting, when I was in the square today, and I'm sure you had this feeling in the Basilica as well, yes, this is a media event, there are thousands of reporters here, there are cameras everywhere. But you don't really feel -- I mean, we've been on stories where it really feels as if sort of orchestrated for the media. This really feels like you are seeing history and the life of the church, happening whether or not we would be here.

I mean, it's an extraordinary feeling, sort of rich in tradition and ritual.

AMANPOUR: Well, yes. And I think, in short, we the cameras, we the reporters are flies on the wall this time.

COOPER: Absolutely. Yes.

AMANPOUR: We're not taking necessarily part. There these huge crowds who very reverent, the sadness is sort of dissipating and the sort of grief is dissipating. And now it's a question of going, doing the duty of paying last respects. Quite silent. You'd think that these huge crowd that there would be a lot of noise, a lot of hubbub. But, no, quite silent.

COOPER: And no pushing, no shoving.

AMANPOUR: Guards and police handing out water bottles, helping people who need help.

COOPER: Yes, I've never seen anything like it. Christiane Amanpour, thanks very much.

ANNOUNCER: Soul departed -- body at piece, the people's pope returned to the people tonight from all walks of life, all over the world, line to say their final farewells to their beloved holy father. And the man who stood by the pope for more than 40 years, the one who held the holy father's hand at the end of his life. Tonight we profile Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz and the father and son relationship that lasted nearly a half century. This special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360 will continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And there you see some of the many of tens of thousands of people quickly filing past the body of Pope John Paul II. Christiane Amanpour, was saying just a few moments ago, there's some 70,000 people right now waiting in line, waiting for the opportunity to see him and it's 1:34 a.m. here in Vatican City.

A truly remarkable day. We're trying to get as many different angles on this story as possible. Trying to put cameras in as many different places as possible. Earlier today I was in St. Peter's Square when the pope's body was taken out and moved to St. Peter's Basilica. I brought a little home video camera and just took some images of what it was like in the square far away from the big media cameras, the television cameras. Just amongst the people who were all waiting -- waiting to see their pope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): They waited for hours to see their pontiff. They waited for hours for one final glimpse. In St. Peter's sun- kissed square there was no pushing, no shoving just somber faces with smiles of old friends. A giant bell rang out, the sound nearly lost amid the songs and sounds, the prayers for the pope.

The crowds have been building for the last several hours. The square is now packed, it's hard to move around. There are giant video monitors which have been set up, so the crowd can see the pope's body lying in state. No one is exactly sure where the pope's body will be brought. People are -- they're certain avenues that can be opened up in the crowd, but no one is exactly sure where his body is going to be taken. Everyone wanted to get close enough to try to see the pope. They know they won't be ale to touch him, though many would no doubt like to. But they just want to see him, one glimpse of him in person.

(on camera): You wish you were taller?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. I do. I'm only 5' and I can't see very much. I've been holding my camera up hoping that it will take something and I'm straining to see the screen. But, yes, I wish I was taller.

COOPER (voice-over): Sister Elizabeth Morris (ph), an Australian nun stood on her tip toes, but the crowd was too big, people too tall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See that screen's a little bigger, but it's too far away.

COOPER: A young girl sat on the shoulders of her father taking pictures for strangers who gave her their phones.

(voice-over): In America we've become seeing makeshift memorials spring up in the wake of national tragedies. Well, here in Italy the tradition is a little different. People leave cards and messages and flowers by lamp posts. In St. Peter's Square there are half a dozen lamp posts, and all of them are filled with personal messages to the pope. This one says gracias, thank you, we love you. Adios, Karol. Children left drawings, their portraits of the pontiff.

5-year-old Mikal (ph) simply scribbled his name.

"The pope is like flowers," he said. He make me think of flowers.

(on camera): It's not just a sense of mourning here in St. Peter's Square, there is certainly that, there is sadness. But there's also joy, a celebration of the life of a remarkable man and an extraordinary pope.

(voice-over): When his body appeared there were tears and applause. Those unable to see watched the TVs very closely.

(on camera): It's certainly an event that is being broadcast around the world, but standing here in St. Peter's Square you don't get the sense that this is a media event, there are not many cameras around. All the media are sequestered hundreds of yards of over there in the bleachers. Standing to the crowd there's an intimacy to it. It's extraordinarily moving.

CASEY SHAVER, PENNSYLVANIA: To be surrounded by it all and actually see it happening in front of you with your own eyes, Just something you can't describe. It's really amazing.

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ... on the screen of course.

SHAVER: When they carry him through around the church.

PETER REALI, NEW YORK: When (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) responding so much grief.

COOPER: You waited three hours?

REALI: Yes, I'm not. And it was unbelievable experience.

COOPER: Were you disappointed not to actually see him in person or...

REALI: No, we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on brighter parts. You know, we have him in here, in our hearts. COOPER (voice-over): Even those who didn't get close to the body came away feeling they had seen the pope. One man told us John Paul is dead, but we still keep him alive in our hearts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I apologize for some of the camera work, I'm clearly not a professional cameraman. But I wanted to try to get as many different angles on the story as possible. I wanted to show you what it was actually like standing there amidst those tens of thousands of people. It's really and truly a remarkable experience, a great privilege.

CNN's Delia Gallagher, a Vatican analyst, is with us. There's an interesting CNN/"USA Today"/Gallop poll that's out. I want to talk about some of the results and get your take on it. Seventy-eight percent of American Catholics -- American Catholics very significantly, said the next pope should allow birth control. Very little chance of that actually happening.

GALLAGHER: Well, probably not. On the other hand, the teaching on birth control is a moral teaching, so it could technically change. But I think have you to understand that obviously the Vatican doesn't change in teaching just because of a poll. However, their teachings are based within a whole sort of theology. And this pope, for example, spent a lot of time on what is called the theology of the body and sort of went into the reasons why all of these moral teachings are as they are. And so if it were to change, it would have to -- the church would have to relook this whole theology. They would have to rethink the whole theology. So, not a simple matter of saying, well, you know, people are using it now a days, so maybe it would be a good thing. They have to go back and review this whole -- in the whole system of their theology of their thinking.

COOPER: This poll, 63 percent of American Catholics believe the next pope should allow priests to marry. Is that likely to change.

GALLAGHER: Again -- well, again, it's a similar thing whereby the church considers the priests are already married. It considers them married to God. And in a marriage, this is a man and a woman, are sort of in this total commitment. So the priest is in a total commitment to God. So, again you have to consider the theology of the thing, and then the practical situation, which is perhaps vocations and so on, which are some of the arguments people use to say, well, we should allow priests to marry. And, let's be clear here -- a lot of -- these are polls of American Catholics, but they are still represented here at the Vatican. So, you know, it is something that is discussed.

COOPER: Well, also, perhaps, I mean, what I think is interesting about this poll it shows the difference that between American Catholics and Catholics around the world. I mean I think the Vatican would be quick to point out that, just because American Catholics think this, there are a whole other world of Catholics out there.

GALLAGHER: Yes, well, and again, I think you can have as many viewpoints in different countries as you want, but perhaps American Catholics make their voice known a little bit louder, whereas other countries might be more accepting of the tradition of the church, and more willing to accept that tradition and not really want to see it change.

COOPER: Not as quick to poll on every particular subject.

GALLAGHER: No, no.

COOPER: CNN's Delia Gallagher, thanks very much. Our special coverage continues in a moment. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: 1:43 a.m. in Vatican City. There you see the Swiss guards guarding the body of Pope John Paul II who continues to lie in St. Peter's Basilica as tens of thousands of people, even at this late hour, continue to pass through to get one last glimpse of the pontiff. An extraordinary day.

There are -- in all the photos you have seen of the pope, during his reign, it is likely you have seen one man standing by his side, the same man for more than 40 years now, his most trusted friend and confidante. You may not know his name but we can guarantee you everyone who works in the Vatican does.

Chris Burns, now, profiles the right-hand man of Pope John Paul II.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...fell bleeding from an assassin's bullet in 1981, Monsignor Stanislaus Dziwisz caught him in his arms.

The pope later said the last thing he remembered telling Dziwisz, he forgave his assailant. And amid the pope's declining health, Dziwisz also considered a fall back for his boss. As the pope's personal secretary, papal analysts say the Polish-born Dziwisz, known in the Vatican as Don Stanislaus, was increasingly influential while the pope weakened. Just how influential is unclear.

HENRYK WOZNIAKOWSKI: He's an extremely faithful servant for the pope.

ROBERTO SURO, PEW HISPANIC CENTER: He progressed up to, maybe, sort of a kind of chief-of-staff or chief executive assistant.

BURNS: With a 19-year age difference, their relationship was at first one of father and son. Legend has it they met skiing in Zakopane, Karol Wojtyla's spiritual retreat. Like Wojtyla, he grew up poor, born in a southern mountain village, not far from the pontiff's hometown, Wadowice.

As Wojtyla led the church in Poland during communist rule, he ordained Dziwisz as a priest in 1963, and named him his personal secretary three years later. At the Vatican Dziwisz played the pope's gatekeeper, his right hand man, his chief confidante, a heartbeat away. He slept steps away from the pope's bedroom and stood by the pontiff's shoulder during mass. In recent years, as the pope's health waned, analysts say the father-son relationship changed. They say Dziwisz's voice increasingly carried weight.

SURO: Inside the Vatican when, Dziwisz spoke, the assumption was he spoke for the pope.

BURNS: One example, as the Iraq war approached, he was asked the pope's position. Without taking time to consult he said, the pontiff opposed it. With a bit of black humor, he jealously guarded the pope from prying reporters. Asked in 2003 about the pope's physical state he said, many journalists who in the past have written about the pope's health are already in heaven.

Vatican observers say Dziwisz played a consultative role including in deciding appointments and papal trips, and he was seen as a mediator among powerful Vatican personalities. Perhaps the greatest power Dziwisz wielded was access to the Holy See for the powerful and weak. While the pope was hospitalized in February, it was Dziwisz who invited a young cancer patient to visit the pontiff in his room.

It was Dziwisz's hand the pope was holding when he died; in naming him bishop in 1998, the pope told him you have stood faithfully by my side as secretary, sharing the works, the joys, the anxieties and hopes. Stanislaus Dziwisz is now gatekeeper of those memories, jealously guarding Karol Wojtyla's privacy even in the pontiffs death. Chris Burns, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: He held the pope's hand when he died.

We have a lot of other stories we are covering right now. Sophia Choi of "HEADLINE NEWS" brings us up to date.

CHOI: Anderson, yet another attack near Iraq's infamous Abu Ghraib prison follows a weekend of violence. A suicide bomber on a tractor blew himself up near the prison, injuring four civilians.

Saturday, U.S. military officials say a well coordinated attack involved dozens of insurgents who reportedly used car bombs, grenades and small arms fire. 23 U.S. soldiers and 13 detainees were wounded.

Today America saw the start of its largest anti-terror drill ever in New Jersey and Connecticut. Dozen of state and national agencies are involved. The $16 million drill will last all week long. Today it included a simulated bioterrorism attack and a simulated chemical weapons attack. U.S. Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff says the goal of the exercise is to push America's emergency planning to the limit in order to find weaknesses.

It will be a Saturday royal wedding instead of a Friday one. Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles are postponing their wedding for a day because of the pope's funeral. The prince will represent the royal family at the pope's funeral in Rome; Parker Bowles will not attend.

That's a look at the headlines -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sophia, thanks very much. Our special edition of 360 continues live from Rome tonight. We are going to look at the pope and pop culture. This weekend, U2s Bono called the pope the best front man the Catholic church has ever had. We'll talk about what influence the pope has had on popular culture.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: 1:51 a.m. in Vatican City. St. Peter's Basilica. Pope John Paul lying in state as tens of thousands of mourners come to pay their final respects.

We're going to want to look now at the pope and his role in popular culture. One of the perhaps odder images we saw a little over a year ago was the pope looking over some break dancers as they did an exhibition for his holiness. There it is. One of the more surprising images perhaps to come out of the Vatican City in the last couple of years. Rudi Bakhtiar now looks at the pope and popular culture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Paul II celebrating mass, sights and sounds Catholics worldwide would come to associate with their beloved pope.

But John Paul also loved Bob Dylan. The pope invited Bob Dylan to play for him at the World Eucharistic Congress in Bologna, Italy in 1997. The arts and popular culture playing a significant role in John Paul's life of passion and adventure.

That same year, B.B. King performed at the Vatican, and would grace his holiness with Lucille. He gave the pope one of his trademark guitars.

In 1999, the pope met with the likes of singer and Live Aid creator Bob Geldof, and Bono, the lead singer for U2, as they kicked off a campaign to reduce the debt of the world's poorest countries.

Here we see a glimpse of the papal cool factor.

BONO, US LEAD SINGER: That is for you. And also, my glasses.

BAKHTIAR: Of course, there were times the pope found himself at odds with pop culture.

When Madonna, wearing crosses and not much more, released her "Like a Prayer" video in 1989, the Vatican tried to ban her from performing in Italy. Madonna later tried unsuccessfully to gain an audience with the pope.

But perhaps the pope's most controversial pop culture moment came in 1992, when on "Saturday Night Live," a bald Irish rocker named Sinead O'Connor sings the Bob Marley song "War," and then rips the pope's picture to shreds.

SINEAD O'CONNOR, SINGER: Fight the real enemy.

BAKHTIAR: She was booed. NBC was flooded with protest calls, and O'Connor eventually apologized to the pope.

Controversy aside, though, this pope will be forever remembered for touching the young,evidenced by the crowds he grew to stadiums worldwide.

He was a veritable rock star among his young followers, many of whom were not yet born when he began his papal reign in 1978. Not bad for someone who never topped the pop chart, but did canonize 482 saints.

As the pope himself once said, I have a sweet tooth for song and music. This is my Polish sin.

Rudi Bakhtiar, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I didn't know that Bono actually gave him his glasses. I wonder if he actually put them on.

CNN's prime-time coverage is going to continue in just a few moments with Paula Zahn. Let's get a check of what Paula will be covering -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Anderson. As you have shown us, this is truly a historic time, so many coming to Rome. Millions, we are told, eventually, to witness the end of an era for the church and the beginning of a new one.

And tonight, we're going to show you the very human side of Pope John Paul, a boyfriend (sic) friend shares some very special memories.

And a look at the direction the next pope may take, and the problems he will face in the future. In particular, Anderson, we're going to focus on the issue of women in the church and show how this pope pretty much divided women.

COOPER: All right. Paula, we'll be watching. Thanks very much. That just in a few minutes from now.

360, though, continues. Our special report live from Rome. We'll take you back inside St. Peter's Basilica for one last look at Pope John Paul II. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And a live picture from Vatican City inside St. Peter's Basilica, at 1:58 a.m.

Tonight, taking awe to "The Nth Degree." It is safe to say this is the most casual age ever. It's an age of t-shirts, and jeans, of first names on first meetings, of slaps on backs and handshakes instead of curtsies and bows, which is why we find images like these so stunning, scenes like this so overwhelmingly powerful. We're dumbstruck. We're meant to be dumbstruck by ancient ritual, by the survival over millennia of ceremonies down to the their least little details, by the prescribed colors and patterns of embroidered cloth and embossed metal, by rites in which every word is dictated by ancient usage, and every gesture long since choreographed.

There is comfort in such ceremony, in the knowledge that every step and every stitch have meaning, and the realization that this rare and sad passage always has happened exactly this way, and probably always will. Outside these precincts, the blur of change is everywhere. Here -- well, just look around. No time has passed at all, not in centuries. In a world as completely casual as ours, this profound formality truly is stunning.

Thanks very much for watching this special edition of 360. CNN's prime-time coverage continues now with Paula Zahn -- Paula.

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