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CNN Live At Daybreak

Two Million Expected to View Pope Before Friday's Funeral

Aired April 05, 2005 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Straight ahead on DAYBREAK, lying in state and being remembered by millions around the globe. Our live coverage of the death of Pope John Paul II continues.
It is Tuesday, April 5th. This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

Also this morning, some last-minute changes for the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. And damaging testimony about Michael Jackson from a young man who claims he was once a victim.

But first, other stories "Now in the News."

An estimated 70,000 people were waiting in line when the pope's body was first placed in St. Peter's Basilica for public viewing. The Vatican says the body will be on view for 22 hours a day until Friday's funeral.

Just about three-and-a-half hours ago a car bomb in southern Baghdad kills a U.S. soldier and injures four others. About the same time, west of Baghdad, another car bomb kills an Iraqi civilian and wounds two others. Also today, an Iraqi brigadier general was kidnapped.

President Bush heads to West Virginia University at Parkersburg this morning. He's speaking on his favorite topic these days, the reform of Social Security.

And some portions of the controversial Patriot Act are due to expire at the end of this year. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales goes before the Senate Judiciary Committee this morning to argue in favor of extending them.

And Carolina Blue is the color of the day. Fans in Chapel Hill celebrated their team's 75-70 win last night over Illinois in the college basketball championship game. The game was played in St. Louis.

I guess, Chad, it went right down to the wire.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it did.

COSTELLO: What a game.

MYERS: Carol, you're back. COSTELLO: I feel like I've been away forever.

MYERS: Don't leave me like that again.

COSTELLO: OK, Chad. I'm back now, Chad. It's OK.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: Life is back to normal.

MYERS: I had to go see my therapist.

COSTELLO: Oh, stop.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Here's the latest on Pope John Paul II. The Catholic Church's cardinals began meeting just about an hour ago. They're discussing just when to hold the conclave to select a new pope. The Vatican holds a news briefing 90 minutes from now to explain what happens between now and when John Paul's successor is chosen.

Of course the pope's body is lying in state inside St. Peter's Basilica. And about two million people are expected to file past before Friday's funeral.

Our Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us now live from Vatican City.

Alessio, you're in the midst of all of those pilgrims. And the wait in line to see the pope's body is a long one.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: That is correct, Carol. We do not have yet official figures, but it does feel like here that those two million pilgrims are already here near St. Peter's Square. Let me give you a little bit of the geography here.

You can see behind me here St. Peter's Basilica. From here to the basilica, it takes a good hour to reach that location where the pope is lying in state. And here is the crowd.

You can see this is (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the main road leading up to the St. Peter's Basilica. Of course this is just a fraction of what the people -- of the line of the people waiting to go and pay their last respects. And the line continues beyond the reach of the camera lens, kilometers, miles away.

And what is incredible is that everybody is extremely peaceful and calm waiting in line. There are kids, there are old people, entire families, many pilgrims, of course. And every one of them is waiting patiently for their moment.

And what is incredible about all this, of course, is that they wait for hours, and then they have only a few seconds inside the basilica once they're able to reach there and pay their last respects for -- to the pope. And among these pilgrims is a lady from Canada who has actually been in line, I understand, for three or four hours already.

So what makes you do this, really?

ANETTE BOGISLAWSKI, PILGRIM: I came here to pay my last respects to the pope on behalf of my family in Vancouver, Canada, as well as in Poland. I was fortunate to see the pope when I was a little girl. And we actually had contact. And unfortunately, this time his eyes will be closed when I see him. But it brings me peace to be here, and the unity that's...

VINCI: What makes you wait so long in line, more faith or curiosity?

BOGISLAWSKI: I guess -- I guess that it's the least that I can do for what he has done for us. So, if anything, it's a thanks to him.

VINCI: Do you also have a feeling that you're living through a historical (UNINTELLIGIBLE) many of hundreds of thousands of people who are walking by the body of the pope? Do you feel that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for you?

BOGISLAWSKI: Absolutely. And part of the reason why I'm here is because there are so many people in the world that unfortunately are not able to be here for different reasons. And I feel very thankful that I'm able to be here in Rome today and see his (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And, like I said, on behalf of everyone that is not able to be here.

VINCI: And one final question. Describe to me a little bit (UNINTELLIGIBLE) while you were waiting in line. I mean, you came from just outside of Rome. What was the scene like to get here?

BOGISLAWSKI: Although there was crowds and crowds of people, it was very peaceful. And it felt like a (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

The taxi dropped us off way before the actual Vatican. And we walked here with many other people. And, like I said, it was very peaceful despite the fact there's so many crowds and people.

VINCI: OK. Anette, thank you very much. So you're about an hour away. So we're glad for you.

All right. So, Carol, as you can see here, this is just one little story. And I've talked to the pilgrims all morning here. And one man actually drove from northern Italy with his wife and a little kid of about a year and a half.

Seven hours' drive to get here in Rome, five hours in line, 20 seconds in front of the pope, back in the car, seven hours back to northern Italy. These are the kinds of stories you hear here.

Back to you.

COSTELLO: Amazing. I wanted to ask you a few questions.

You know, there's a picture on the front page of "The New York Times." You can see everybody with their camera -- their cameras, snapping pictures of the pope's body. And also their cell phones. They're using their cell phones to take pictures of the pope's body.

How close can you actually get to the body once you get up there, Alessio?

VINCI: Carol, I haven't been inside the basilica yet. But I -- you know, judging from the video that I've been able to see, I think they are about maybe 10, 15 meters away from the pope. So it's not that close.

There is, of course, a separation between the area where the pilgrims are led through and where the pope is lying in state. But I would imagine that from the pictures that I've seen between 15 and 20 feet or so.

COSTELLO: All right. Alessio Vinci live from Rome. We'll get back to you. Thank you.

The rest of the world still reacting to the death of the pope. In Havana, Cuban president Fidel Castro signed a book of condolences for the pontiff. Castro wrote, "Rest in peace, enemy of war and friend of the poor."

Pope John Paul II became the only pope to visit Cuba. That was back in 1998 when he went to Havana.

But Castro will not be among the world leaders who will attend the pope's funeral on Friday. President Bush says he'll lead an American delegation to the funeral. Among other world leaders expected to attend are British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Two hundred world leaders might attend the pope's funeral on Friday.

We want to highlight some of the e-mails we've received here at CNN from some of you.

Juliera Pedrosa from Brazil writes: "I think his fight for love, peace and understanding between people, no matter what religion, what culture, what country they come from, it's his great legacy. He was a great man. Now he is a saint for me."

We got this e-mail from Michael in Poland: "For me, the pope will always be the one and only pontiff in the world. He was and will be my guide for the rest of my days."

And John in Athens, Greece, writes: "The only hope we have is to pray for his successor to be half a good a pope as this pope was."

We want to know what you think this morning. Go to CNN.com for our special report on the pope, and then send us an e-mail.

Much more to come on DAYBREAK this hour.

Michael Jackson's past takes the stand in his present day trial. We'll give you the latest on some bruising testimony. Plus, the Tar Heels step up and the Illini lose their fight. We'll show you the highlights. That's an amazing game.

And Charles and Camilla have waited a long time for this. Now they will have to wait a bit longer.

And the pope's funeral an enormous event with enormous security. "AMERICAN MORNING" brings you live coverage from Rome and New York on the latest plans. That is at 7:00 Eastern.

You are watching DAYBREAK for Tuesday, April 5th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In news, money, weather and sports, it's 5:12 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Tens of thousands of mourners are filing past the body of Pope John Paul II this morning. As many as two million pilgrims are expected to file past the pope before his funeral on Friday.

One Iraqi civilian has been killed by a car bomb in Baghdad. It's believed the target was an Iraqi military convoy that was passing by. The explosion wounded two other people.

In money news, oil giant ChevronTexaco is adding Unocal to its portfolio. The deal for the ninth largest American oil company will cost Chevron at least $16 billion. Chevron's chairman says he expects the deal to be approved by regulators by the end of the year.

In culture, former 98 Degrees singer Justin Jeffre is running for mayor of Cincinnati. He's the blond one, in case you don't know. He's been trying to get Music Television Network, which, of course, would be MTV, and VH1 to cover his run for city hall as part of a new reality show.

In sports, nothing could be finer than to be from Carolina. The University of North Carolina beat Illinois 75-70 to win the college basketball national championship. Center Sean May led the way with 26 points for the Tar Heels. He was named the tournament's most outstanding player.

I see big things in the future for him, Chad.

MYERS: Absolutely. I gave Kelly Wallace two words yesterday about this game last night: Sean May.

He dominated the inside, offensive, defensive, rebounds. Just crashed the boards on both ends. It was his game to win, and he did it.

I predicted UNC by seven, but that's the two-degree guarantee that the weather guys always give you. You know, Carol?

COSTELLO: Yes. He scored 26 points. I'm looking.

MYERS: Yes, he did.

COSTELLO: Cool.

MYERS: They had -- they had a phenomenal team. They had so much power on the inside, it was going to be hard to beat. They could probably actually play some NBA teams and do fairly well.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Chad.

That's a look at the latest headlines for you this morning.

Pope John Paul was a man who traveled the world promoting Christian and human values. And he made sure it was caught on tape. CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look at how the pope used the power of the media.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As much as he was a strong leader and a great thinker, John Paul II was a man well chosen for his time. When he took the papacy, almost by stealth in 1978, television, radio and the Internet were taking the world by storm. The world's first global TV news organization, CNN, was born a year and a half later. And from the beginning the pope who was trained as an actor and playwright saw the potential.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a man who mastered timing. He mastered the gesture. He mastered an angle. He mastered how to communicate with an audience very early in his life.

FOREMAN: He put his skills to use by creating the Vatican TV service, which documented every step in his long journeys around the globe. He pushed the idea of a Vatican web site. He participated in regular photo ops that would do any politician proud. He even took part in recording a much heralded CD, his words matched to music.

POPE JOHN PAUL II, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: ... most high. Your deeds, oh lord, have made me glad.

FOREMAN (on camera): Time and again in his books, his speeches and his actions, he made it clear he was a life-long student of the media. And he prodded his followers to use the media to spread human rights, justice and tolerance everywhere.

(voice-over) Simply put, John Paul took a church in which change is often painfully slow, and he revolutionized its public outreach.

MONSIGNOR RONALD JAMESON, ST. MATTHEWS CATHEDRAL: If you go back all of these years that he's been the pope and you trace back where Rome, the Vatican is today, compared to then, with the use of the media, with modern technology, they have come years and years.

FOREMAN: Although John Paul became one of the world's most recognized faces, Vatican watchers say he hand picked his public relations team, and they picked his media moments to underscore church principles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so the images that we have of him of coming down from a plane and kissing the ground. Or we have him of shaking his finger at a recalcitrant politician, or we have the image of him in a cell, forgiving his attempted assassin, images that he, I'm sure, crafted to communicate in addition to the words that he would speak.

FOREMAN: Plenty of American Catholics were troubled by his firm opposition to abortion rights, divorce, women in the clergy.

HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": He somehow managed to rise above those day-to-day controversies in part by the pictures, the images. And this was a pope who understood the power of that camera to elevate him and what he was trying to get across, beyond the disputes that any political figure inevitably gets involved in.

FOREMAN: The lessons continue. His death was announced through e-mail. Video of his body is being carried around the world. And it is fitting.

Once a TV crew asked John Paul if they could take his picture. He smiled in agreement and said, "If it doesn't happen on television, it doesn't happen."

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: From ordinary people to kings, queens and presidents, millions of people will converge on Rome this week to pay their final respects to Pope John Paul. What an extraordinary and historic tribute.

We want to talk more about that and the pope's relations with the media with Robert Moynihan, editor of "Inside the Vatican."

Good morning once again, Robert.

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Good morning.

COSTELLO: The relationship that the pope had with the media is just fascinating to me. Did he ever speak with you about that?

MOYNIHAN: Well, a lot of the popes were afraid of the media, and a lot of the Vatican officials in the past. They felt, perhaps rightly, that the media would betray them.

They'd say, "Give us an interview," and then they wouldn't -- they would choose any a slip of the tongue or a sensational part. They wouldn't put it in context. There was a very tense relationship between the Church and the media.

A lot of times, the Vatican was like the forbidden city. You couldn't get in, you couldn't talk to anybody. With this pope, he felt the Church should propose, the Church should offer its message, the Church should open its doors a little. They modernized the press office, they put in computers. And the pope himself, of course, went out on the airplane. He would allow journalists to come up and talk to him.

He was never afraid. He thought -- he was a man who, in the integrity of his own vision, felt that he wouldn't be tricked because there was no guile in him. And so he would speak, and the journalists would ask questions, and became much more open.

COSTELLO: I know that he wanted to be an actor as a young man. When you looked at his body language it was very consistent with each public appearance. Was that on purpose?

MOYNIHAN: Well, he did want to make it life, as it were, a work of art. So as an actor he thought he would be on the stage only in underground theaters in the University of Krakow under the Nazis. And he decided to go into a different stage. First, the altar of the priesthood, and then the bishop of Krakow, and then onto the stage of the world, where he passed away.

COSTELLO: The countries he chose to visit, the venues he chose in which to speak to the people, were those carefully orchestrated by him, or by his public relations people?

MOYNIHAN: Well, he certainly had an input into every decision made by the Vatican. He entrusted his public relations people to be the most professional they could be. And he chose to try to visit every country in the world, sometimes because he felt as a Pole and as a non-Vatican insider he liked to get out of the Vatican.

So he felt more comfortable sometimes on the road. And some people criticized him a little bit for not being so attentive to the administrative activities inside the Vatican.

He was a pope -- in a way, an outsider pope. And he acted on the stage of Australia, the United States, Boston Common in the rain, the field of martyrs in Lithuania, the huge five million crowd in Manila, the Philippines these scenes of his life which are absolutely, in terms of the media, in terms of history, are phenomenal moments.

But they were, in a sense, scripted. But they always allowed for the spontaneous gesture.

When he came out of St. Patrick's Cathedral once in New York City everyone had scripted, make a right turn and go up. He went left and started talking to people on the street corner.

COSTELLO: Truly a wonderful moment. Robert Moynihan, thank you.

So the world truly was the pope's stage. And millions were enraptured by what he had to say. Thank you for joining us. We'll get back to you in the next hour of DAYBREAK.

They're waiting for hours in line, but they don't seem to mind. Still ahead, we'll take you into the still-growing crowd of pilgrims mourning the pope.

You are watching DAYBREAK for Tuesday, April 5th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Chad, I pose a question to you this morning.

MYERS: I'm ready.

COSTELLO: Who was the most made fun of couple in the world?

MYERS: Sean Penn and whatever he was -- whoever he was going out with?

COSTELLO: You're so behind the times.

MYERS: Or Jennifer Aniston and Pitt?

COSTELLO: That was back in the '80s when Madonna was married to Sean Penn.

MYERS: I'm stuck in the '80s, Carol. Look at my ties.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Camilla Parker Bowles and Prince Charles.

MYERS: Oh. OK. OK. All right, fine.

COSTELLO: Take it from Jay Leno. He was once again poking fun at the British royals. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": And Prince Charles has delayed his wedding due to the passing of the pope. I guess he figured it's not the best time to marry your mistress.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

No, he's postponed his wedding to Camilla by one day. The good news, it will give the guys from that show "The Swan" an extra 24 hours to work on Camilla. So that's...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But, you know, it was amazing to me that it took the prince that long to decide that he should really postpone the wedding for a day and attend the funeral for Pope John Paul.

MYERS: Well, that's because he didn't know what day the funeral was going to be.

COSTELLO: Oh, come on. MYERS: If the funeral was going to be on Wednesday, they were still going to get married on Friday. But when the cardinals decided that it was going to be Friday, that's when he decided, OK, let's do it Saturday.

COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's face it...

MYERS: You know, that Jay Leno...

COSTELLO: ... we knew the pope was failing, right?

MYERS: Well, yes.

COSTELLO: So Prince Charles had to know. So why schedule your wedding in a week when you knew something dire might happen?

MYERS: Because you've got the cake, Carol. You've got the caterers. You can't cancel all that.

COSTELLO: They're doing it -- it's a small civil ceremony for 700 people, Chad.

MYERS: Oh, right. Like your -- like your wedding.

COSTELLO: Yes, right. Sure.

Time for our DAYBREAK "Eye Openers" now.

Red Sox outfielder Johnny Damon, take a look at him, Chad.

MYERS: He's a redo, right?

COSTELLO: No. He's perfect the way he is. He spent some time in enemy territory to sign his new book. Damon is in New York for a two-game series against the Yankees, but he spent much of his day off between games signing copies of his autobiography entitled, "Idiot."

MYERS: Nice.

COSTELLO: Now, here's a big one that did not get away. It took three kids to reel this 65-pound blue catfish out of a lake in Houston. Oh, that's ugly.

MYERS: It's kind of nasty looking. But it's like something from the dinosaur era.

COSTELLO: I bet those kids way 65 pounds. The kids say...

MYERS: They need more ice.

COSTELLO: ... it took them almost a half-hour to get this thing out of the water. But now they'll need a bigger cooler.

MYERS: They're going to need a lot more ice.

COSTELLO: Here's one that did get away, at least for a while in Kansas. This big emu eluded its captors for most of the afternoon, even after police were called into assist. After tearing through nets and hands, the 100-plus-pound emu was finally wrapped up. But now...

MYERS: Is he OK?

COSTELLO: He's OK.

MYERS: All right.

COSTELLO: They're just wrapping him up so they can take him back to emu land.

MYERS: He doesn't look OK.

COSTELLO: Trust me, he's fine.

MYERS: All right.

COSTELLO: At least that's the story I'm sticking with right now.

MYERS: Fair enough.

COSTELLO: Here's what's all new in the next half-hour of DAYBREAK.

After waiting for years for their trip to the altar, Charles and Camilla must wait a little longer. How their date with destiny has hit a snag.

Plus, the Michael Jackson trial. A young man testifies he was a victim of sexual abuse by the pop star.

You are watching DAYBREAK for this Tuesday, April 5th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 5, 2005 - 05:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Straight ahead on DAYBREAK, lying in state and being remembered by millions around the globe. Our live coverage of the death of Pope John Paul II continues.
It is Tuesday, April 5th. This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

Also this morning, some last-minute changes for the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. And damaging testimony about Michael Jackson from a young man who claims he was once a victim.

But first, other stories "Now in the News."

An estimated 70,000 people were waiting in line when the pope's body was first placed in St. Peter's Basilica for public viewing. The Vatican says the body will be on view for 22 hours a day until Friday's funeral.

Just about three-and-a-half hours ago a car bomb in southern Baghdad kills a U.S. soldier and injures four others. About the same time, west of Baghdad, another car bomb kills an Iraqi civilian and wounds two others. Also today, an Iraqi brigadier general was kidnapped.

President Bush heads to West Virginia University at Parkersburg this morning. He's speaking on his favorite topic these days, the reform of Social Security.

And some portions of the controversial Patriot Act are due to expire at the end of this year. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales goes before the Senate Judiciary Committee this morning to argue in favor of extending them.

And Carolina Blue is the color of the day. Fans in Chapel Hill celebrated their team's 75-70 win last night over Illinois in the college basketball championship game. The game was played in St. Louis.

I guess, Chad, it went right down to the wire.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it did.

COSTELLO: What a game.

MYERS: Carol, you're back. COSTELLO: I feel like I've been away forever.

MYERS: Don't leave me like that again.

COSTELLO: OK, Chad. I'm back now, Chad. It's OK.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: Life is back to normal.

MYERS: I had to go see my therapist.

COSTELLO: Oh, stop.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Here's the latest on Pope John Paul II. The Catholic Church's cardinals began meeting just about an hour ago. They're discussing just when to hold the conclave to select a new pope. The Vatican holds a news briefing 90 minutes from now to explain what happens between now and when John Paul's successor is chosen.

Of course the pope's body is lying in state inside St. Peter's Basilica. And about two million people are expected to file past before Friday's funeral.

Our Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us now live from Vatican City.

Alessio, you're in the midst of all of those pilgrims. And the wait in line to see the pope's body is a long one.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: That is correct, Carol. We do not have yet official figures, but it does feel like here that those two million pilgrims are already here near St. Peter's Square. Let me give you a little bit of the geography here.

You can see behind me here St. Peter's Basilica. From here to the basilica, it takes a good hour to reach that location where the pope is lying in state. And here is the crowd.

You can see this is (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the main road leading up to the St. Peter's Basilica. Of course this is just a fraction of what the people -- of the line of the people waiting to go and pay their last respects. And the line continues beyond the reach of the camera lens, kilometers, miles away.

And what is incredible is that everybody is extremely peaceful and calm waiting in line. There are kids, there are old people, entire families, many pilgrims, of course. And every one of them is waiting patiently for their moment.

And what is incredible about all this, of course, is that they wait for hours, and then they have only a few seconds inside the basilica once they're able to reach there and pay their last respects for -- to the pope. And among these pilgrims is a lady from Canada who has actually been in line, I understand, for three or four hours already.

So what makes you do this, really?

ANETTE BOGISLAWSKI, PILGRIM: I came here to pay my last respects to the pope on behalf of my family in Vancouver, Canada, as well as in Poland. I was fortunate to see the pope when I was a little girl. And we actually had contact. And unfortunately, this time his eyes will be closed when I see him. But it brings me peace to be here, and the unity that's...

VINCI: What makes you wait so long in line, more faith or curiosity?

BOGISLAWSKI: I guess -- I guess that it's the least that I can do for what he has done for us. So, if anything, it's a thanks to him.

VINCI: Do you also have a feeling that you're living through a historical (UNINTELLIGIBLE) many of hundreds of thousands of people who are walking by the body of the pope? Do you feel that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for you?

BOGISLAWSKI: Absolutely. And part of the reason why I'm here is because there are so many people in the world that unfortunately are not able to be here for different reasons. And I feel very thankful that I'm able to be here in Rome today and see his (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And, like I said, on behalf of everyone that is not able to be here.

VINCI: And one final question. Describe to me a little bit (UNINTELLIGIBLE) while you were waiting in line. I mean, you came from just outside of Rome. What was the scene like to get here?

BOGISLAWSKI: Although there was crowds and crowds of people, it was very peaceful. And it felt like a (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

The taxi dropped us off way before the actual Vatican. And we walked here with many other people. And, like I said, it was very peaceful despite the fact there's so many crowds and people.

VINCI: OK. Anette, thank you very much. So you're about an hour away. So we're glad for you.

All right. So, Carol, as you can see here, this is just one little story. And I've talked to the pilgrims all morning here. And one man actually drove from northern Italy with his wife and a little kid of about a year and a half.

Seven hours' drive to get here in Rome, five hours in line, 20 seconds in front of the pope, back in the car, seven hours back to northern Italy. These are the kinds of stories you hear here.

Back to you.

COSTELLO: Amazing. I wanted to ask you a few questions.

You know, there's a picture on the front page of "The New York Times." You can see everybody with their camera -- their cameras, snapping pictures of the pope's body. And also their cell phones. They're using their cell phones to take pictures of the pope's body.

How close can you actually get to the body once you get up there, Alessio?

VINCI: Carol, I haven't been inside the basilica yet. But I -- you know, judging from the video that I've been able to see, I think they are about maybe 10, 15 meters away from the pope. So it's not that close.

There is, of course, a separation between the area where the pilgrims are led through and where the pope is lying in state. But I would imagine that from the pictures that I've seen between 15 and 20 feet or so.

COSTELLO: All right. Alessio Vinci live from Rome. We'll get back to you. Thank you.

The rest of the world still reacting to the death of the pope. In Havana, Cuban president Fidel Castro signed a book of condolences for the pontiff. Castro wrote, "Rest in peace, enemy of war and friend of the poor."

Pope John Paul II became the only pope to visit Cuba. That was back in 1998 when he went to Havana.

But Castro will not be among the world leaders who will attend the pope's funeral on Friday. President Bush says he'll lead an American delegation to the funeral. Among other world leaders expected to attend are British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Two hundred world leaders might attend the pope's funeral on Friday.

We want to highlight some of the e-mails we've received here at CNN from some of you.

Juliera Pedrosa from Brazil writes: "I think his fight for love, peace and understanding between people, no matter what religion, what culture, what country they come from, it's his great legacy. He was a great man. Now he is a saint for me."

We got this e-mail from Michael in Poland: "For me, the pope will always be the one and only pontiff in the world. He was and will be my guide for the rest of my days."

And John in Athens, Greece, writes: "The only hope we have is to pray for his successor to be half a good a pope as this pope was."

We want to know what you think this morning. Go to CNN.com for our special report on the pope, and then send us an e-mail.

Much more to come on DAYBREAK this hour.

Michael Jackson's past takes the stand in his present day trial. We'll give you the latest on some bruising testimony. Plus, the Tar Heels step up and the Illini lose their fight. We'll show you the highlights. That's an amazing game.

And Charles and Camilla have waited a long time for this. Now they will have to wait a bit longer.

And the pope's funeral an enormous event with enormous security. "AMERICAN MORNING" brings you live coverage from Rome and New York on the latest plans. That is at 7:00 Eastern.

You are watching DAYBREAK for Tuesday, April 5th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In news, money, weather and sports, it's 5:12 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Tens of thousands of mourners are filing past the body of Pope John Paul II this morning. As many as two million pilgrims are expected to file past the pope before his funeral on Friday.

One Iraqi civilian has been killed by a car bomb in Baghdad. It's believed the target was an Iraqi military convoy that was passing by. The explosion wounded two other people.

In money news, oil giant ChevronTexaco is adding Unocal to its portfolio. The deal for the ninth largest American oil company will cost Chevron at least $16 billion. Chevron's chairman says he expects the deal to be approved by regulators by the end of the year.

In culture, former 98 Degrees singer Justin Jeffre is running for mayor of Cincinnati. He's the blond one, in case you don't know. He's been trying to get Music Television Network, which, of course, would be MTV, and VH1 to cover his run for city hall as part of a new reality show.

In sports, nothing could be finer than to be from Carolina. The University of North Carolina beat Illinois 75-70 to win the college basketball national championship. Center Sean May led the way with 26 points for the Tar Heels. He was named the tournament's most outstanding player.

I see big things in the future for him, Chad.

MYERS: Absolutely. I gave Kelly Wallace two words yesterday about this game last night: Sean May.

He dominated the inside, offensive, defensive, rebounds. Just crashed the boards on both ends. It was his game to win, and he did it.

I predicted UNC by seven, but that's the two-degree guarantee that the weather guys always give you. You know, Carol?

COSTELLO: Yes. He scored 26 points. I'm looking.

MYERS: Yes, he did.

COSTELLO: Cool.

MYERS: They had -- they had a phenomenal team. They had so much power on the inside, it was going to be hard to beat. They could probably actually play some NBA teams and do fairly well.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Chad.

That's a look at the latest headlines for you this morning.

Pope John Paul was a man who traveled the world promoting Christian and human values. And he made sure it was caught on tape. CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look at how the pope used the power of the media.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As much as he was a strong leader and a great thinker, John Paul II was a man well chosen for his time. When he took the papacy, almost by stealth in 1978, television, radio and the Internet were taking the world by storm. The world's first global TV news organization, CNN, was born a year and a half later. And from the beginning the pope who was trained as an actor and playwright saw the potential.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a man who mastered timing. He mastered the gesture. He mastered an angle. He mastered how to communicate with an audience very early in his life.

FOREMAN: He put his skills to use by creating the Vatican TV service, which documented every step in his long journeys around the globe. He pushed the idea of a Vatican web site. He participated in regular photo ops that would do any politician proud. He even took part in recording a much heralded CD, his words matched to music.

POPE JOHN PAUL II, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: ... most high. Your deeds, oh lord, have made me glad.

FOREMAN (on camera): Time and again in his books, his speeches and his actions, he made it clear he was a life-long student of the media. And he prodded his followers to use the media to spread human rights, justice and tolerance everywhere.

(voice-over) Simply put, John Paul took a church in which change is often painfully slow, and he revolutionized its public outreach.

MONSIGNOR RONALD JAMESON, ST. MATTHEWS CATHEDRAL: If you go back all of these years that he's been the pope and you trace back where Rome, the Vatican is today, compared to then, with the use of the media, with modern technology, they have come years and years.

FOREMAN: Although John Paul became one of the world's most recognized faces, Vatican watchers say he hand picked his public relations team, and they picked his media moments to underscore church principles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so the images that we have of him of coming down from a plane and kissing the ground. Or we have him of shaking his finger at a recalcitrant politician, or we have the image of him in a cell, forgiving his attempted assassin, images that he, I'm sure, crafted to communicate in addition to the words that he would speak.

FOREMAN: Plenty of American Catholics were troubled by his firm opposition to abortion rights, divorce, women in the clergy.

HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": He somehow managed to rise above those day-to-day controversies in part by the pictures, the images. And this was a pope who understood the power of that camera to elevate him and what he was trying to get across, beyond the disputes that any political figure inevitably gets involved in.

FOREMAN: The lessons continue. His death was announced through e-mail. Video of his body is being carried around the world. And it is fitting.

Once a TV crew asked John Paul if they could take his picture. He smiled in agreement and said, "If it doesn't happen on television, it doesn't happen."

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: From ordinary people to kings, queens and presidents, millions of people will converge on Rome this week to pay their final respects to Pope John Paul. What an extraordinary and historic tribute.

We want to talk more about that and the pope's relations with the media with Robert Moynihan, editor of "Inside the Vatican."

Good morning once again, Robert.

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Good morning.

COSTELLO: The relationship that the pope had with the media is just fascinating to me. Did he ever speak with you about that?

MOYNIHAN: Well, a lot of the popes were afraid of the media, and a lot of the Vatican officials in the past. They felt, perhaps rightly, that the media would betray them.

They'd say, "Give us an interview," and then they wouldn't -- they would choose any a slip of the tongue or a sensational part. They wouldn't put it in context. There was a very tense relationship between the Church and the media.

A lot of times, the Vatican was like the forbidden city. You couldn't get in, you couldn't talk to anybody. With this pope, he felt the Church should propose, the Church should offer its message, the Church should open its doors a little. They modernized the press office, they put in computers. And the pope himself, of course, went out on the airplane. He would allow journalists to come up and talk to him.

He was never afraid. He thought -- he was a man who, in the integrity of his own vision, felt that he wouldn't be tricked because there was no guile in him. And so he would speak, and the journalists would ask questions, and became much more open.

COSTELLO: I know that he wanted to be an actor as a young man. When you looked at his body language it was very consistent with each public appearance. Was that on purpose?

MOYNIHAN: Well, he did want to make it life, as it were, a work of art. So as an actor he thought he would be on the stage only in underground theaters in the University of Krakow under the Nazis. And he decided to go into a different stage. First, the altar of the priesthood, and then the bishop of Krakow, and then onto the stage of the world, where he passed away.

COSTELLO: The countries he chose to visit, the venues he chose in which to speak to the people, were those carefully orchestrated by him, or by his public relations people?

MOYNIHAN: Well, he certainly had an input into every decision made by the Vatican. He entrusted his public relations people to be the most professional they could be. And he chose to try to visit every country in the world, sometimes because he felt as a Pole and as a non-Vatican insider he liked to get out of the Vatican.

So he felt more comfortable sometimes on the road. And some people criticized him a little bit for not being so attentive to the administrative activities inside the Vatican.

He was a pope -- in a way, an outsider pope. And he acted on the stage of Australia, the United States, Boston Common in the rain, the field of martyrs in Lithuania, the huge five million crowd in Manila, the Philippines these scenes of his life which are absolutely, in terms of the media, in terms of history, are phenomenal moments.

But they were, in a sense, scripted. But they always allowed for the spontaneous gesture.

When he came out of St. Patrick's Cathedral once in New York City everyone had scripted, make a right turn and go up. He went left and started talking to people on the street corner.

COSTELLO: Truly a wonderful moment. Robert Moynihan, thank you.

So the world truly was the pope's stage. And millions were enraptured by what he had to say. Thank you for joining us. We'll get back to you in the next hour of DAYBREAK.

They're waiting for hours in line, but they don't seem to mind. Still ahead, we'll take you into the still-growing crowd of pilgrims mourning the pope.

You are watching DAYBREAK for Tuesday, April 5th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Chad, I pose a question to you this morning.

MYERS: I'm ready.

COSTELLO: Who was the most made fun of couple in the world?

MYERS: Sean Penn and whatever he was -- whoever he was going out with?

COSTELLO: You're so behind the times.

MYERS: Or Jennifer Aniston and Pitt?

COSTELLO: That was back in the '80s when Madonna was married to Sean Penn.

MYERS: I'm stuck in the '80s, Carol. Look at my ties.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Camilla Parker Bowles and Prince Charles.

MYERS: Oh. OK. OK. All right, fine.

COSTELLO: Take it from Jay Leno. He was once again poking fun at the British royals. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": And Prince Charles has delayed his wedding due to the passing of the pope. I guess he figured it's not the best time to marry your mistress.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

No, he's postponed his wedding to Camilla by one day. The good news, it will give the guys from that show "The Swan" an extra 24 hours to work on Camilla. So that's...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But, you know, it was amazing to me that it took the prince that long to decide that he should really postpone the wedding for a day and attend the funeral for Pope John Paul.

MYERS: Well, that's because he didn't know what day the funeral was going to be.

COSTELLO: Oh, come on. MYERS: If the funeral was going to be on Wednesday, they were still going to get married on Friday. But when the cardinals decided that it was going to be Friday, that's when he decided, OK, let's do it Saturday.

COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's face it...

MYERS: You know, that Jay Leno...

COSTELLO: ... we knew the pope was failing, right?

MYERS: Well, yes.

COSTELLO: So Prince Charles had to know. So why schedule your wedding in a week when you knew something dire might happen?

MYERS: Because you've got the cake, Carol. You've got the caterers. You can't cancel all that.

COSTELLO: They're doing it -- it's a small civil ceremony for 700 people, Chad.

MYERS: Oh, right. Like your -- like your wedding.

COSTELLO: Yes, right. Sure.

Time for our DAYBREAK "Eye Openers" now.

Red Sox outfielder Johnny Damon, take a look at him, Chad.

MYERS: He's a redo, right?

COSTELLO: No. He's perfect the way he is. He spent some time in enemy territory to sign his new book. Damon is in New York for a two-game series against the Yankees, but he spent much of his day off between games signing copies of his autobiography entitled, "Idiot."

MYERS: Nice.

COSTELLO: Now, here's a big one that did not get away. It took three kids to reel this 65-pound blue catfish out of a lake in Houston. Oh, that's ugly.

MYERS: It's kind of nasty looking. But it's like something from the dinosaur era.

COSTELLO: I bet those kids way 65 pounds. The kids say...

MYERS: They need more ice.

COSTELLO: ... it took them almost a half-hour to get this thing out of the water. But now they'll need a bigger cooler.

MYERS: They're going to need a lot more ice.

COSTELLO: Here's one that did get away, at least for a while in Kansas. This big emu eluded its captors for most of the afternoon, even after police were called into assist. After tearing through nets and hands, the 100-plus-pound emu was finally wrapped up. But now...

MYERS: Is he OK?

COSTELLO: He's OK.

MYERS: All right.

COSTELLO: They're just wrapping him up so they can take him back to emu land.

MYERS: He doesn't look OK.

COSTELLO: Trust me, he's fine.

MYERS: All right.

COSTELLO: At least that's the story I'm sticking with right now.

MYERS: Fair enough.

COSTELLO: Here's what's all new in the next half-hour of DAYBREAK.

After waiting for years for their trip to the altar, Charles and Camilla must wait a little longer. How their date with destiny has hit a snag.

Plus, the Michael Jackson trial. A young man testifies he was a victim of sexual abuse by the pop star.

You are watching DAYBREAK for this Tuesday, April 5th.

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