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American Morning
Tens of Thousands Filing Past Pope John Paul II
Aired April 05, 2005 - 08:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. They are here by the tens of thousands, waiting for hours to say one final goodbye as the Vatican announces a break from tradition and our coverage continues live in Italy on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien, reporting from New York this morning. Bill Hemmer in Rome.
Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Soledad. And it is -- as the day grows longer here, hour by hour we continue to see thousands of people streaming into line right in front of St. Peter's Square and the area behind me.
We're also learning more information based on what -- the Vatican had a press conference a few hours ago. They are now telling us that the cardinals have now met three times over the past two days. And that third meeting coming earlier today in which 92 cardinals did participate, which is about a 30 percent increase from the number of cardinals who took place in the meetings on Monday.
However, no date has been set for the conclave as of yet. However, if you look at Church law, you have to figure sometime between the 17th of April and the 22nd of April, somewhere in there, that conclave should begin.
Also, a variance in opinions from these cardinals as to whether or not this conclave will be long or short. There's one cardinal from Brazil earlier today quoted as saying the conclave will go quickly. However, a great variance of opinion, and we'll try and get to the bottom of that one. Cardinal Roger Mahony in a second here live at the Vatican.
And there is a new tradition also to talk about. We're told now that when there is silver smoke -- excuse me -- white smoke seen coming out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, bells will sound throughout the Vatican as well. This breaks with tradition in the past, but the bells will give a better indication as to whether or not the smoke is white, or if it's gray or if it's black, because a lot of people trying to figure it out in the daytime sun in the afternoon here in Italy.
But again, the story for the day goes to the people down on the street, and that's where we find CNN's Alessio Vinci, who has been talking to so many of them there.
And Alessio, good afternoon.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Good afternoon to you, Bill.
Well, it looks like that by this time of the day, the wait, the average wait for the pilgrim from the beginning of the line up to this point, where I am -- and I'm about 200 or 300 yards away from the entrance of the basilica where Pope John Paul II is lying in state -- is about five hours until here, but then they have a good -- another good hour before they can reach inside that basilica.
But here, behind -- here on my left-hand side, there are tens of thousands of people, Bill. They just keep coming and coming and coming. And as you can see here, the incredible thing about this crowd is that, while they've been waiting all this time here, they have been waiting, being extremely peaceful and patient.
There are kids. There are old people, entire families, many pilgrims, of course, but every one of them is waiting patiently in line. Not a kid is crying.
The civil protection is offering people water at this time of day. Overnight, they were offering blankets, because it is very cold here during the night.
And what is also incredible about this line, Bill, is that, while they wait for hours in line, once they reach the inside of the basilica they will be able to spend only a few seconds in front of the pope. Think about this, waiting for hours in line -- and I'm talking about an average of six to seven hours, perhaps, by the time -- by the time you reach the pope, and you are able to spend there only just a few -- a few seconds.
This is really an incredible story. I've been asking a lot of people here. Most of them, of course, are pilgrims, and most of them are Italians, which are mainly Catholics.
But we also met a lot of non-Catholics, some people from the U.S., some people from Ukraine, many from Poland, of course. The incredible story this morning, of a family -- of an Italian family, and I asked them whether they go to church every Sunday. And they said, "No, but we felt we had to come here." And they had to be called.
And one last thing, Bill, just to give our viewers a bit of sense about where we stand. I am in Vatican City. My cameraman is not.
This is the border between Vatican City and Italy. My cameraman, who stands about three feet away from me, is in Italy. I am in Vatican City. I'm now entering Italy.
This is the kind of interesting aspect, if you want, of the story. These two states so different and yet so close. And one last thing, Bill. Around here, just to give you a sense about how much interest and how much importance the world media are giving to this story, look at this.
This is a podium built for the world media, and this is just one of them. Down the road, more media, more people, more cameras.
This is the kind of scene around here in St. Peter's Square, and the funeral hasn't begun yet. That happens on Friday.
This number of people will double, triple, 10 times more than this. We expect up to two million people, Bill. It's going to be an incredible scene here. I think it's going to be the largest crowd ever descending upon Vatican City and, of course, Rome.
Bill, back to you.
HEMMER: Incredible already, Alessio, too. And just trying to find the front of that line could be a difficult task, because it keeps growing and growing and keeps on taking left-hand turns as it snakes its way back away from St. Peter's.
Earlier today, also, we were told that the group, the congregation from Poland, may number 1.5 million, only from Poland alone. That's what city officials are telling us they're hearing out of Warsaw and Krakow. And in Krakow late last night, city officials taken off guard when a crowd of about 150,000 got together in a spontaneous gathering in the southern town of Krakow, the place where Pope John Paul II once was elevated to archbishop back in 1964.
The cardinals are here. They have met three times now in the past two days. And Cardinal Roger Mahony, who we speak with yesterday out of Los Angeles, is also back with me again today. My guest here high above Vatican City.
An honor to see you.
CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, ARCHBISHOP, LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE: Good to see you again, Bill.
HEMMER: For a change in person, too.
MAHONY: Yes.
HEMMER: What are you to make of the outpouring in the pictures that we're seeing for these people getting in line to pay honor?
MAHONY: Well, it certainly reflects the great impact that Pope John Paul on the whole world. He really was a people's pope. He loved people, and they knew it, and they understood it in a way that it was a personal love for them individually, not in general.
HEMMER: Do you think he would like these crowds? He would like to see this?
MAHONY: Oh, he would love it. He would love it, because he wanted to always connect with the people as a good pastor. And so this is what's happening. The flock are coming to see the pastor.
HEMMER: Let's talk about the conclave. Officially no date has been set. Is that still right?
MAHONY: That's correct.
HEMMER: What is -- well, I don't want to suggest it's taking a long time, but perhaps you're being patient through this as well. At what point would we know when the conclave will begin?
MAHONY: You know, I'm not sure. What we're doing now is going through the document.
Pope John Paul in 1996 gave us a document, path, a guideline, guidebook on how to do all of this, because never before was it all written down in an orderly fashion. So we haven't gotten that far.
Right now, we're dealing with the funeral. And then there are nine days of mourning and celebrations of masses, and that. So right now that's the principal focus.
HEMMER: What you're following is something that was written nine years ago by Pope John Paul II.
MAHONY: That's correct.
HEMMER: How big is this book?
MAHONY: Oh, it's about a half-inch thick. It's not that large, but it details everything that needs to be done, and lays out in an orderly fashion what happens when the pope dies and the gathering of the cardinals.
It's really extremely well-done. So none of us have ever used it before, so we're going through it line by line.
HEMMER: That's extraordinary.
We also know now that you're not necessarily locked up or held inside the Apostolic Palace. But the cardinals are allowed to roam freely throughout the Vatican.
MAHONY: Oh, yes.
HEMMER: If that's the case, what are your conversations like? And how often do you talk about the successor?
MAHONY: Never.
HEMMER: Come on.
MAHONY: Never. I have never been in a conversation or heard anyone that has been.
No. What we're talking about, among ourselves, is what is the status of the church where you are? It's really fascinating to ask cardinals from Africa and different countries, what's going on in your church? Talk to some of the cardinals from places like France. And it's pretty sad. And other places, Latin America, Asia.
Right now, we're really trying to get a fix on what is the status of the Church everywhere. And I think that's a very important first step.
HEMMER: From one Catholic to another, are you telling me that you have not had a discussion as to who will lead this Church next?
MAHONY: I have not had one discussion, nor heard anyone that has. That's truthful, because we're not looking at that right now. And I think that would be foolish to do that.
HEMMER: Why?
MAHONY: Because we need to see where are we, where is the Church today? We've got a big tension. We have the vibrancy of the Church in the southern hemisphere, with the malaise in the northern hemisphere, especially Europe.
You know, what is -- what's this reality? How are we going to deal with this?
So we're really trying to look at the needs of the Church for the coming years. Then, once we understand that more clearly, then that's a time to start talking about leaders.
HEMMER: Thanks for your time. Roger Mahony, the cardinal from Los Angeles.
MAHONY: Good, Bill. Thank you.
HEMMER: Good to see you in person, too.
MAHONY: See you another time.
HEMMER: And good luck to you this week. Don't be a stranger, because we're going to rely on you for a lot of information. Thanks again.
MAHONY: Good. Thank you.
HEMMER: OK.
The outpouring continues here in Rome, Italy. Back in a moment here to the Vatican when we continue our coverage.
Here's Soledad now.
O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.
Here in this country, let's get right to the headlines with Carol Costello. Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he will be meeting with voters every day until the upcoming elections. The prime minister announcing just a short time ago British citizens will held to the polls on May 5th. That's one month from today. If reelected, Blair will be the first Labor Party leader to win three consecutive terms.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is heading to Capitol Hill this morning. Within the hour, he's set to testify before a Senate committee about the need to renew the Patriot Act. The law gives officials extra powers to root out terror suspects, but critics say it steps on civil liberties. Without renewal, some of its provisions will expire in December.
The parents of Terri Schiavo have organized a funeral mass tonight in Gulfport, Florida. The brain-damaged woman died last week nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed.
Schiavo's body has been cremated. Her husband plans to bury her ashes in Pennsylvania, where she grew up. Results from an autopsy on Schiavo's body is not expected for several weeks.
And former Vice President Al Gore launching a new TV cable network for younger viewers. The former vice president unveiled "Current" Monday. It targets the 18 to 34 population, with a blend of news, culture and viewer-produced videos. The search engine Google is also on board. Gore says it's a way of empowering the younger generation to tell their stories.
"Current," Soledad, is set to launch August 1st.
O'BRIEN: It will be interesting to see how that does, see if young people are interested in tuning into politics and more online -- on cable.
COSTELLO: It's available -- I guess in August it will be available to 19 million viewers.
O'BRIEN: We'll see how it does. We'll watch it. All right. Thanks, Carol.
Let's take a look at the weather now. Messy, messy, messy across lots of the country this morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: For millions of Catholics around the world, John Paul II was the only pope they ever knew. A young journalist who grew up in Rome shares her deep connection with the pontiff up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Pope John Paul II's special connection with young people has been noted since his earlier travels in 1979. Now an entire generation has grown up without ever knowing any other pope. Federica Cellini is 25 years old. She's an Italian journalist. She's currently working for us here at AMERICAN MORNING.
It's nice to talk to you.
FEDERICA CELLINI, CNN INTERN: Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: You're from Rome originally, you're 25, as we mentioned. And Pope John Paul II the only pope you've known. Why such a deep connection to him?
CELLINI: It's like I always look at him as he was like my grandfather. And this was the common feeling with all my generation.
O'BRIEN: Why?
CELLINI: We have grown up like looking at him as an example, as really as a grandfather with his super sweet face. And like we just wanted like to kiss him, to stay next to him.
And he was like -- he was able to show us like the man behind all this ritual, the man behind his rule. Like, he really spoke with us. He really looked for us. So that's how it was.
O'BRIEN: He definitely searched out a connection with young people. I know that you attended the World Youth Day vigil, which was back in 2000. And I want to read just a little bit of what he had to say.
He said, "Declare to yourselves that in the new century you will not let yourself be made into tools of violence and destruction. You will not resign yourselves to a world where other human beings die of hunger, remain illiterate, and have no work."
Powerful words. How did they go over with a young audience? What did you feel when you heard that?
CELLINI: He spoke with so much passion. And moreover, I mean, it is not just his words, his gestures. He was an example with his life.
So the reason, like, his word is going to touch our hearts, the hearts of the young people, is because he's really -- like he's showing all the effort he's making like with his life, really. It's not just with the words.
It's like he's really -- he's really touching us and coming to call ourselves like you have to do, you have to do what you can do. Like you have to act. You can't be just a spectator. Like, you should really do what you can. It's like he's giving us the responsibility to do something to change the world like he did it. He did it.
O'BRIEN: And he's asking others, young people especially to do the same.
CELLINI: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Have you been in touch with your friends of your age group in Italy? And what are they saying to you?
CELLINI: Yes, like I call them a lot. And they were in St. Peter's like during the night praying for him and waiting. And like, they were there, just going there without an appointment. And everyone was there.
Like a person dressed up maybe for a night out, like they were there just to pray for him. And it was so nice. Like there was -- like it's a kind of bittersweet atmosphere, like praying and singing. And it was so emotional, as they told me.
O'BRIEN: How frustrating and difficult has it been for you to not be there with your friends and to be there while the pope is being mourned nationally and internationally?
CELLINI: It's hard. I wish I could be there, but it's like I feel so close to him in any case, that it's like if I was there.
Of course, it's not exactly the same, but it's important to do what we can do and speak about his relation with us, and even his last words were for us. Like he told us, "I looked for you --" it seemed to us. "I looked for you and you answered to me. And now you are here."
So it's so important. He's giving us a lot of responsibility.
He was a man in our age. He was the man of our -- like of our generation.
He spoke several languages. He loved theater. He studied theater when he was -- when he was young, and he visited like more than one 104 (ph) countries. Like he's really the man of our age.
O'BRIEN: Man of all ages. Federica Cellini, nice to talk to you about this. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us.
CELLINI: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate it.
Let's go back to Bill Hemmer in Rome this morning.
It's interesting, Bill. Of course you hear Federica talk so personally about her relationship with the pope. And then, of course, earlier we were speaking with Madeleine Albright about the global implications of the pope's time in his office.
It's obviously, I think, underscored as well by the hundreds of thousands of people who are lined up and the efforts to get a glimpse of Pope John Paul II and pay their respects to him as well.
HEMMER: And Soledad, every person down there has their own story. And you go down there and you can ask them, and each story appears to be different from the next.
And when we left late last night, it was around 10:00 in the evening here, Soledad. The line was about a half-mile long. And they're stacked not in single file. Again, this is 20 and 30 across, all the way up leading into the church, the giant basilica of St. Peter's.
When we showed up this morning around 9:00 a.m., that line was at least twice as long as it was last night, and perhaps even longer than that. It was really going down and taking a left-hand turn after a left-hand turn.
I wrote some notes when I was down there, just talking about the explosion, the turnout of people this morning, that I could not find the beginning of the line. And we walked for a very long time.
You find some children sitting on top of their fathers' shoulders. And the signs are down there, too, in Italian, and in English, and in Polish. Civil defense workers are down there, too, handing out bottles of water. It gets quite hot here in the afternoon sun.
And they're also handing out blankets at night. Because when that sun goes down, the temperatures drop into the 40s. And if you're waiting there for five, six, seven hours at a time, it can get quite chilly throughout the Italian evening here.
Also, a lot of street sweepers trying to keep up to speed with all the newspapers floating around and the empty water bottles that are discarded. And you'll see a lot of umbrellas throughout the afternoon, too. With that afternoon heat, it serves these people quite well to try and keep that heat off of them as best they can.
However, Soledad, to a person down there, man, woman, child, doesn't matter, they all say they will wait as long as it takes to pay their final respect to Pope John Paul II. There is an awful lot of spirit and an awful lot of love in Italy again today.
O'BRIEN: I think it's fair to say around the world as well. Those pictures have been truly fascinating to see, and such calm among the people who sort of just stand by knowing that they're going to wait for six or seven hours.
Bill, of course we're going to get back to you in Rome in just a few moments.
A short break ahead. AMERICAN MORNING is back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Where will the next pope come from? It's the "Question of the Day" for Jack Cafferty.
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing, Soledad?
That's true. Five hundred years, almost, give or take a year or two, the pope has come from Europe. John Paul II is the exception to them all being Italian during that period of time.
Today's list of candidates to replace John Paul much more global. Cardinals from places like Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, Africa. One is the leading candidates is Cardinal Francis Arinze, who is Nigerian.
The Church is growing by leaps and bounds in developing nations of Africa, Asia and South America. The question is this, is the world ready for a non-European pope?
Jamie writes, "The candidate from Nigeria would be a wise choice, especially since AIDS, starvation and genocide are plaguing that part of the world. The world as a hole might be more likely to help with this if their spiritual leader was the embodiment of the people of Africa."
Johnny in Mississippi, "Not only is the world ready for a non- European pope, but in desperate need of one. If the cardinals are smart they will seize this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reach out to the fastest growing segments of the Church."
Bryan in New Jersey, "I'd support a non-Italian, non-European for the papacy because now more than ever the Roman Catholic Church must embrace change in order to be relevant in the modern world."
And Jessica in Arkansas, "Few of the cardinals who voted for John Paul II could ever have anticipated that his papacy would have become star-like. And perhaps few would now want to elect someone as charismatic. As a result, I anticipate an older pope and definitely a European."
O'BRIEN: There's some saying that we heard one of the analysts mention a little earlier that said, you know, to replace the fat pope, get a skinny pope. And I'm sure in Italian it sounds much better than that.
CAFFERTY: Well, yes.
O'BRIEN: But the basic idea, go the opposite direction. Don't try to do the same thing.
CAFFERTY: Well, and, you know, you want to bring show business into it. There's an old adage, you don't want to be the guy to replace John Paul II. You want to be the guy that replaces the guy that replaces John Paul II. The idea being he is a very difficult act to follow. They were saying that when Carson retired. You don't want to be the guy to replace Carson. You want to be the guy that replaces the guy that replaces Johnny Carson. So...
O'BRIEN: Interesting to see what direction the cardinals go as they gather. I think they said 91 or 92 of the 117 have already gotten into...
CAFFERTY: There's an age limit as to the ones that can vote, too, is there not? Was it over 80 they're not allowed to vote or something?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And there's a whole batch of them that are like over 80.
O'BRIEN: Right. But 117 are under 80. Eighty is kind of an interesting cutoff itself. Maybe that's the "Question of the Day" tomorrow. Just trying to help you out.
CAFFERTY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.
Italians love Pope John Paul II, but they don't always love the Vatican. Bill's live in Rome with the story behind that love-hate relationship up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 5, 2005 - 08:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. They are here by the tens of thousands, waiting for hours to say one final goodbye as the Vatican announces a break from tradition and our coverage continues live in Italy on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien, reporting from New York this morning. Bill Hemmer in Rome.
Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Soledad. And it is -- as the day grows longer here, hour by hour we continue to see thousands of people streaming into line right in front of St. Peter's Square and the area behind me.
We're also learning more information based on what -- the Vatican had a press conference a few hours ago. They are now telling us that the cardinals have now met three times over the past two days. And that third meeting coming earlier today in which 92 cardinals did participate, which is about a 30 percent increase from the number of cardinals who took place in the meetings on Monday.
However, no date has been set for the conclave as of yet. However, if you look at Church law, you have to figure sometime between the 17th of April and the 22nd of April, somewhere in there, that conclave should begin.
Also, a variance in opinions from these cardinals as to whether or not this conclave will be long or short. There's one cardinal from Brazil earlier today quoted as saying the conclave will go quickly. However, a great variance of opinion, and we'll try and get to the bottom of that one. Cardinal Roger Mahony in a second here live at the Vatican.
And there is a new tradition also to talk about. We're told now that when there is silver smoke -- excuse me -- white smoke seen coming out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, bells will sound throughout the Vatican as well. This breaks with tradition in the past, but the bells will give a better indication as to whether or not the smoke is white, or if it's gray or if it's black, because a lot of people trying to figure it out in the daytime sun in the afternoon here in Italy.
But again, the story for the day goes to the people down on the street, and that's where we find CNN's Alessio Vinci, who has been talking to so many of them there.
And Alessio, good afternoon.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Good afternoon to you, Bill.
Well, it looks like that by this time of the day, the wait, the average wait for the pilgrim from the beginning of the line up to this point, where I am -- and I'm about 200 or 300 yards away from the entrance of the basilica where Pope John Paul II is lying in state -- is about five hours until here, but then they have a good -- another good hour before they can reach inside that basilica.
But here, behind -- here on my left-hand side, there are tens of thousands of people, Bill. They just keep coming and coming and coming. And as you can see here, the incredible thing about this crowd is that, while they've been waiting all this time here, they have been waiting, being extremely peaceful and patient.
There are kids. There are old people, entire families, many pilgrims, of course, but every one of them is waiting patiently in line. Not a kid is crying.
The civil protection is offering people water at this time of day. Overnight, they were offering blankets, because it is very cold here during the night.
And what is also incredible about this line, Bill, is that, while they wait for hours in line, once they reach the inside of the basilica they will be able to spend only a few seconds in front of the pope. Think about this, waiting for hours in line -- and I'm talking about an average of six to seven hours, perhaps, by the time -- by the time you reach the pope, and you are able to spend there only just a few -- a few seconds.
This is really an incredible story. I've been asking a lot of people here. Most of them, of course, are pilgrims, and most of them are Italians, which are mainly Catholics.
But we also met a lot of non-Catholics, some people from the U.S., some people from Ukraine, many from Poland, of course. The incredible story this morning, of a family -- of an Italian family, and I asked them whether they go to church every Sunday. And they said, "No, but we felt we had to come here." And they had to be called.
And one last thing, Bill, just to give our viewers a bit of sense about where we stand. I am in Vatican City. My cameraman is not.
This is the border between Vatican City and Italy. My cameraman, who stands about three feet away from me, is in Italy. I am in Vatican City. I'm now entering Italy.
This is the kind of interesting aspect, if you want, of the story. These two states so different and yet so close. And one last thing, Bill. Around here, just to give you a sense about how much interest and how much importance the world media are giving to this story, look at this.
This is a podium built for the world media, and this is just one of them. Down the road, more media, more people, more cameras.
This is the kind of scene around here in St. Peter's Square, and the funeral hasn't begun yet. That happens on Friday.
This number of people will double, triple, 10 times more than this. We expect up to two million people, Bill. It's going to be an incredible scene here. I think it's going to be the largest crowd ever descending upon Vatican City and, of course, Rome.
Bill, back to you.
HEMMER: Incredible already, Alessio, too. And just trying to find the front of that line could be a difficult task, because it keeps growing and growing and keeps on taking left-hand turns as it snakes its way back away from St. Peter's.
Earlier today, also, we were told that the group, the congregation from Poland, may number 1.5 million, only from Poland alone. That's what city officials are telling us they're hearing out of Warsaw and Krakow. And in Krakow late last night, city officials taken off guard when a crowd of about 150,000 got together in a spontaneous gathering in the southern town of Krakow, the place where Pope John Paul II once was elevated to archbishop back in 1964.
The cardinals are here. They have met three times now in the past two days. And Cardinal Roger Mahony, who we speak with yesterday out of Los Angeles, is also back with me again today. My guest here high above Vatican City.
An honor to see you.
CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, ARCHBISHOP, LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE: Good to see you again, Bill.
HEMMER: For a change in person, too.
MAHONY: Yes.
HEMMER: What are you to make of the outpouring in the pictures that we're seeing for these people getting in line to pay honor?
MAHONY: Well, it certainly reflects the great impact that Pope John Paul on the whole world. He really was a people's pope. He loved people, and they knew it, and they understood it in a way that it was a personal love for them individually, not in general.
HEMMER: Do you think he would like these crowds? He would like to see this?
MAHONY: Oh, he would love it. He would love it, because he wanted to always connect with the people as a good pastor. And so this is what's happening. The flock are coming to see the pastor.
HEMMER: Let's talk about the conclave. Officially no date has been set. Is that still right?
MAHONY: That's correct.
HEMMER: What is -- well, I don't want to suggest it's taking a long time, but perhaps you're being patient through this as well. At what point would we know when the conclave will begin?
MAHONY: You know, I'm not sure. What we're doing now is going through the document.
Pope John Paul in 1996 gave us a document, path, a guideline, guidebook on how to do all of this, because never before was it all written down in an orderly fashion. So we haven't gotten that far.
Right now, we're dealing with the funeral. And then there are nine days of mourning and celebrations of masses, and that. So right now that's the principal focus.
HEMMER: What you're following is something that was written nine years ago by Pope John Paul II.
MAHONY: That's correct.
HEMMER: How big is this book?
MAHONY: Oh, it's about a half-inch thick. It's not that large, but it details everything that needs to be done, and lays out in an orderly fashion what happens when the pope dies and the gathering of the cardinals.
It's really extremely well-done. So none of us have ever used it before, so we're going through it line by line.
HEMMER: That's extraordinary.
We also know now that you're not necessarily locked up or held inside the Apostolic Palace. But the cardinals are allowed to roam freely throughout the Vatican.
MAHONY: Oh, yes.
HEMMER: If that's the case, what are your conversations like? And how often do you talk about the successor?
MAHONY: Never.
HEMMER: Come on.
MAHONY: Never. I have never been in a conversation or heard anyone that has been.
No. What we're talking about, among ourselves, is what is the status of the church where you are? It's really fascinating to ask cardinals from Africa and different countries, what's going on in your church? Talk to some of the cardinals from places like France. And it's pretty sad. And other places, Latin America, Asia.
Right now, we're really trying to get a fix on what is the status of the Church everywhere. And I think that's a very important first step.
HEMMER: From one Catholic to another, are you telling me that you have not had a discussion as to who will lead this Church next?
MAHONY: I have not had one discussion, nor heard anyone that has. That's truthful, because we're not looking at that right now. And I think that would be foolish to do that.
HEMMER: Why?
MAHONY: Because we need to see where are we, where is the Church today? We've got a big tension. We have the vibrancy of the Church in the southern hemisphere, with the malaise in the northern hemisphere, especially Europe.
You know, what is -- what's this reality? How are we going to deal with this?
So we're really trying to look at the needs of the Church for the coming years. Then, once we understand that more clearly, then that's a time to start talking about leaders.
HEMMER: Thanks for your time. Roger Mahony, the cardinal from Los Angeles.
MAHONY: Good, Bill. Thank you.
HEMMER: Good to see you in person, too.
MAHONY: See you another time.
HEMMER: And good luck to you this week. Don't be a stranger, because we're going to rely on you for a lot of information. Thanks again.
MAHONY: Good. Thank you.
HEMMER: OK.
The outpouring continues here in Rome, Italy. Back in a moment here to the Vatican when we continue our coverage.
Here's Soledad now.
O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.
Here in this country, let's get right to the headlines with Carol Costello. Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he will be meeting with voters every day until the upcoming elections. The prime minister announcing just a short time ago British citizens will held to the polls on May 5th. That's one month from today. If reelected, Blair will be the first Labor Party leader to win three consecutive terms.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is heading to Capitol Hill this morning. Within the hour, he's set to testify before a Senate committee about the need to renew the Patriot Act. The law gives officials extra powers to root out terror suspects, but critics say it steps on civil liberties. Without renewal, some of its provisions will expire in December.
The parents of Terri Schiavo have organized a funeral mass tonight in Gulfport, Florida. The brain-damaged woman died last week nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed.
Schiavo's body has been cremated. Her husband plans to bury her ashes in Pennsylvania, where she grew up. Results from an autopsy on Schiavo's body is not expected for several weeks.
And former Vice President Al Gore launching a new TV cable network for younger viewers. The former vice president unveiled "Current" Monday. It targets the 18 to 34 population, with a blend of news, culture and viewer-produced videos. The search engine Google is also on board. Gore says it's a way of empowering the younger generation to tell their stories.
"Current," Soledad, is set to launch August 1st.
O'BRIEN: It will be interesting to see how that does, see if young people are interested in tuning into politics and more online -- on cable.
COSTELLO: It's available -- I guess in August it will be available to 19 million viewers.
O'BRIEN: We'll see how it does. We'll watch it. All right. Thanks, Carol.
Let's take a look at the weather now. Messy, messy, messy across lots of the country this morning.
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O'BRIEN: For millions of Catholics around the world, John Paul II was the only pope they ever knew. A young journalist who grew up in Rome shares her deep connection with the pontiff up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
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O'BRIEN: Pope John Paul II's special connection with young people has been noted since his earlier travels in 1979. Now an entire generation has grown up without ever knowing any other pope. Federica Cellini is 25 years old. She's an Italian journalist. She's currently working for us here at AMERICAN MORNING.
It's nice to talk to you.
FEDERICA CELLINI, CNN INTERN: Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: You're from Rome originally, you're 25, as we mentioned. And Pope John Paul II the only pope you've known. Why such a deep connection to him?
CELLINI: It's like I always look at him as he was like my grandfather. And this was the common feeling with all my generation.
O'BRIEN: Why?
CELLINI: We have grown up like looking at him as an example, as really as a grandfather with his super sweet face. And like we just wanted like to kiss him, to stay next to him.
And he was like -- he was able to show us like the man behind all this ritual, the man behind his rule. Like, he really spoke with us. He really looked for us. So that's how it was.
O'BRIEN: He definitely searched out a connection with young people. I know that you attended the World Youth Day vigil, which was back in 2000. And I want to read just a little bit of what he had to say.
He said, "Declare to yourselves that in the new century you will not let yourself be made into tools of violence and destruction. You will not resign yourselves to a world where other human beings die of hunger, remain illiterate, and have no work."
Powerful words. How did they go over with a young audience? What did you feel when you heard that?
CELLINI: He spoke with so much passion. And moreover, I mean, it is not just his words, his gestures. He was an example with his life.
So the reason, like, his word is going to touch our hearts, the hearts of the young people, is because he's really -- like he's showing all the effort he's making like with his life, really. It's not just with the words.
It's like he's really -- he's really touching us and coming to call ourselves like you have to do, you have to do what you can do. Like you have to act. You can't be just a spectator. Like, you should really do what you can. It's like he's giving us the responsibility to do something to change the world like he did it. He did it.
O'BRIEN: And he's asking others, young people especially to do the same.
CELLINI: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Have you been in touch with your friends of your age group in Italy? And what are they saying to you?
CELLINI: Yes, like I call them a lot. And they were in St. Peter's like during the night praying for him and waiting. And like, they were there, just going there without an appointment. And everyone was there.
Like a person dressed up maybe for a night out, like they were there just to pray for him. And it was so nice. Like there was -- like it's a kind of bittersweet atmosphere, like praying and singing. And it was so emotional, as they told me.
O'BRIEN: How frustrating and difficult has it been for you to not be there with your friends and to be there while the pope is being mourned nationally and internationally?
CELLINI: It's hard. I wish I could be there, but it's like I feel so close to him in any case, that it's like if I was there.
Of course, it's not exactly the same, but it's important to do what we can do and speak about his relation with us, and even his last words were for us. Like he told us, "I looked for you --" it seemed to us. "I looked for you and you answered to me. And now you are here."
So it's so important. He's giving us a lot of responsibility.
He was a man in our age. He was the man of our -- like of our generation.
He spoke several languages. He loved theater. He studied theater when he was -- when he was young, and he visited like more than one 104 (ph) countries. Like he's really the man of our age.
O'BRIEN: Man of all ages. Federica Cellini, nice to talk to you about this. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us.
CELLINI: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate it.
Let's go back to Bill Hemmer in Rome this morning.
It's interesting, Bill. Of course you hear Federica talk so personally about her relationship with the pope. And then, of course, earlier we were speaking with Madeleine Albright about the global implications of the pope's time in his office.
It's obviously, I think, underscored as well by the hundreds of thousands of people who are lined up and the efforts to get a glimpse of Pope John Paul II and pay their respects to him as well.
HEMMER: And Soledad, every person down there has their own story. And you go down there and you can ask them, and each story appears to be different from the next.
And when we left late last night, it was around 10:00 in the evening here, Soledad. The line was about a half-mile long. And they're stacked not in single file. Again, this is 20 and 30 across, all the way up leading into the church, the giant basilica of St. Peter's.
When we showed up this morning around 9:00 a.m., that line was at least twice as long as it was last night, and perhaps even longer than that. It was really going down and taking a left-hand turn after a left-hand turn.
I wrote some notes when I was down there, just talking about the explosion, the turnout of people this morning, that I could not find the beginning of the line. And we walked for a very long time.
You find some children sitting on top of their fathers' shoulders. And the signs are down there, too, in Italian, and in English, and in Polish. Civil defense workers are down there, too, handing out bottles of water. It gets quite hot here in the afternoon sun.
And they're also handing out blankets at night. Because when that sun goes down, the temperatures drop into the 40s. And if you're waiting there for five, six, seven hours at a time, it can get quite chilly throughout the Italian evening here.
Also, a lot of street sweepers trying to keep up to speed with all the newspapers floating around and the empty water bottles that are discarded. And you'll see a lot of umbrellas throughout the afternoon, too. With that afternoon heat, it serves these people quite well to try and keep that heat off of them as best they can.
However, Soledad, to a person down there, man, woman, child, doesn't matter, they all say they will wait as long as it takes to pay their final respect to Pope John Paul II. There is an awful lot of spirit and an awful lot of love in Italy again today.
O'BRIEN: I think it's fair to say around the world as well. Those pictures have been truly fascinating to see, and such calm among the people who sort of just stand by knowing that they're going to wait for six or seven hours.
Bill, of course we're going to get back to you in Rome in just a few moments.
A short break ahead. AMERICAN MORNING is back right after this.
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O'BRIEN: Where will the next pope come from? It's the "Question of the Day" for Jack Cafferty.
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing, Soledad?
That's true. Five hundred years, almost, give or take a year or two, the pope has come from Europe. John Paul II is the exception to them all being Italian during that period of time.
Today's list of candidates to replace John Paul much more global. Cardinals from places like Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, Africa. One is the leading candidates is Cardinal Francis Arinze, who is Nigerian.
The Church is growing by leaps and bounds in developing nations of Africa, Asia and South America. The question is this, is the world ready for a non-European pope?
Jamie writes, "The candidate from Nigeria would be a wise choice, especially since AIDS, starvation and genocide are plaguing that part of the world. The world as a hole might be more likely to help with this if their spiritual leader was the embodiment of the people of Africa."
Johnny in Mississippi, "Not only is the world ready for a non- European pope, but in desperate need of one. If the cardinals are smart they will seize this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reach out to the fastest growing segments of the Church."
Bryan in New Jersey, "I'd support a non-Italian, non-European for the papacy because now more than ever the Roman Catholic Church must embrace change in order to be relevant in the modern world."
And Jessica in Arkansas, "Few of the cardinals who voted for John Paul II could ever have anticipated that his papacy would have become star-like. And perhaps few would now want to elect someone as charismatic. As a result, I anticipate an older pope and definitely a European."
O'BRIEN: There's some saying that we heard one of the analysts mention a little earlier that said, you know, to replace the fat pope, get a skinny pope. And I'm sure in Italian it sounds much better than that.
CAFFERTY: Well, yes.
O'BRIEN: But the basic idea, go the opposite direction. Don't try to do the same thing.
CAFFERTY: Well, and, you know, you want to bring show business into it. There's an old adage, you don't want to be the guy to replace John Paul II. You want to be the guy that replaces the guy that replaces John Paul II. The idea being he is a very difficult act to follow. They were saying that when Carson retired. You don't want to be the guy to replace Carson. You want to be the guy that replaces the guy that replaces Johnny Carson. So...
O'BRIEN: Interesting to see what direction the cardinals go as they gather. I think they said 91 or 92 of the 117 have already gotten into...
CAFFERTY: There's an age limit as to the ones that can vote, too, is there not? Was it over 80 they're not allowed to vote or something?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And there's a whole batch of them that are like over 80.
O'BRIEN: Right. But 117 are under 80. Eighty is kind of an interesting cutoff itself. Maybe that's the "Question of the Day" tomorrow. Just trying to help you out.
CAFFERTY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.
Italians love Pope John Paul II, but they don't always love the Vatican. Bill's live in Rome with the story behind that love-hate relationship up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
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