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Mourners Now Number in Millions; Prince Rainier of Monaco Dies; Inmate Captured

Aired April 06, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. The conclave is now set and the pope's will will be made public tomorrow. All this as the mourners now number in the millions.
Also, one of the longest-serving monarchs ever has died. Remembering Prince Rainier on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien, reporting from New York this morning. Much more to tell you about, not only about the pope, but other stories making headlines today, as we come to you from both New York and Rome, Italy.

Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad. Hello again from high above the Vatican here.

We learned more details earlier today, Soledad -- in fact, about 90 minutes ago -- from the spokesperson from the Vatican on a number of items. And quickly, I want to tick them off to you.

We now know the conclave will take place on Monday April 18th. That's 12 days from now. We know the pope's final will be made public tomorrow.

We understand the cardinals have already seen this. We will find out more details on Thursday.

Also, there has no secret cardinal appointed by this pope. There were a number of reports over the past several days that said that would happen. But apparently that will not be the case.

Also, the Vatican saying up to a million people in the first 24 hours have filed past the body of Pope John Paul II. And again today they still continue to come in the thousands and tens of thousands outside of Vatican City.

President Bush is en route to Rome. He'll arrive later tonight. And he will be one of 200 heads of state to attend the funeral of Pope John Paul II. That will take place Friday morning here in Rome.

Want to give you an idea right now -- since we now know the conclave will begin in 12 days, this is the image the world will be watching on Monday, April 18th. This is the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel. Out of that chimney is where the smoke will come out, either black, meaning they're still deciding, or white if they've decided on the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

And this is the magnificent interior of the Sistine Chapel. By way of -- by way of graphics we can show you where the cardinals will meet, convening in secret inside the Sistine Chapel, taking two votes in the morning and two votes in the afternoon.

However, there will be one vote on that Monday. That vote will take place in the afternoon. It is possible we could have a pope on the afternoon of the 18th. We'll wait and see on that.

Delia Gallagher with me. In a moment, we'll talk more this in depth in a moment here -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Our other top story this morning, Europe's longest-serving monarch is dead. Monaco's Prince Rainier died early this morning.

The cause, according to the palace, a lung infection and heart problems. He was 81 years old.

The prince had been hospitalized since early last month and too sick to function. His executive powers were handed over to his son, Prince Albert, six days ago.

The 47-year-old Prince Albert is not married, has no children. Monaco's succession rules were changed a few years ago to allow the bachelor, Albert, to inherit the throne.

Among other things, Prince Rainier is credited with turning Monaco, a tiny little tract of land, into a playground for the world's rich and famous and for his own family. Here's CNN's Chris Burns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While turning Monaco into a prosperous world stage for fast cars, high-rolling gamblers and glitterati seeking a tax haven, Prince Rainier also headed a dysfunctional royal family, steeped in scandal and tragedy.

After his fairy tale wedding to American actress Grace Kelly in 1956, the couple raised three children who grew into young and restless aristocrats. Princess Stephanie, dubbed the wild child, survived the car crash that killed her mother in 1982, but said she never emotionally recovered. She's known for her colorful boyfriends, her tattoos, and her dabbling in pop stardom, modeling and fashion design.

Stephanie had two children with her former bodyguard, Daniel Ducruet, married him in 1995, then divorced him the following year after he was photographed cavorting with a former Miss Topless Belgium, allegedly in a setup. She had a third child out of wedlock, then married a circus trapeze artist. But has since split up and was reportedly seeing Ducruet again.

Princess Caroline was 21 when she married a French playboy banker, Philippe Junot, in 1978. Junot sold their Tahiti honeymoon photos, and she divorced him two years later.

Caroline then married Italian property magnate Stefano Casiraghi, with whom she raised three children. Casiraghi died in a speedboat racing accident in 1990.

Her third husband, Prince Ernst, of Hanover, was said to have been Grace's choice for Caroline. But he's caused headlines himself. He was fined for attacking a hotel owner and a photographer.

Prince Albert, heir to the principality, is still a bachelor at 47. Denying rumors he's gay, he dates actresses and supermodels. Still, Prince Rainier amended Monaco's constitution in 2002 to allow one of his daughters to provide a successor just in case to keep Monaco from falling under French control, which would end seven centuries of Grimaldi family rule and end decades of tabloid mischief.

Chris Burns, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: And, in fact, after Albert's line of succession, it passes to his older sister, 48-year-old Princess Caroline and her 20- year-old son.

Let's get right to our headlines with Carol Costello this morning, starting with breaking news out of Afghanistan.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Soledad, we are starting with this breaking news out of Afghanistan.

At least nine people now confirmed dead in that helicopter crash. We told you about this earlier. The U.S. military says the CH-17 Chinook -- the CH-47, rather, Chinook chopper went down about 100 miles southwest of Kabul during a routine mission in severe weather.

Preparations under way for the swearing in of Iraq's first democratically-elected president. Jalal Talabani was chosen by Iraq's 275-member new transitional assembly earlier today. The position is largely symbolic, and so is the vote. Talabani is a Kurd, the minority group largely persecuted under Saddam Hussein.

Preliminary jury selection gets under way today for the trial of Eric Rudolph. He's the North Carolina man accused of setting a bomb outside of an abortion clinic in 1998. That attack killed a police officer. Some 500 people have been ordered to report to an Alabama courthouse this morning. Rudolph could face the death penalty. And funeral service for famed attorney Johnnie Cochran will be held today in Los Angeles. Preparations now under way at the West Angeles Cathedral. Among those expected to attend, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Quincy Jones. Cochran died over a week ago from a brain tumor. He was just 67.

And officials in Pennsylvania are beginning to total up the damage from a weekend flooding. Thousands of homes and businesses along the Delaware and other rivers are in need of repair.

The costs expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars. Residents say bulldozers are clearing streets -- where possible, that is -- with insurance agents hopping from one home to the next.

And there is severe weather in other parts of the country this morning. Chad has latest for us now.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We know the conclave begins on Monday, April 18. And tomorrow, we'll await more details on what the pope contained in his final will. Back to our Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, to take us through a number of these items.

Good afternoon again to you.

We also found out that in his coffin something very interesting will be placed. First of all, there are three coffins, we should point out, too.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, there will be three coffins. The first one is a cypress wood coffin. They have a ceremony that they call for the closing of the coffin. That's a private ceremony.

We don't know if we'll be able to see that. It happens before the funeral, obviously.

And inside the coffin, they have traditionally always placed inside pope's coffins coins from his pontificate. They also traditionally place a thing called the rogito (ph), which is a summary of the pope's life.

This obviously for sort of 2,000 years' time on, somebody opens the coffin and can see who this man was and see the coins from the pontificate. But interestingly, in this pontificate in Italy they had a changeover from the Italian lira to the euro, and so we were told yesterday they will be putting in bronze and silver medals from the pontificate instead of the coins.

HEMMER: That's interesting. Why are there three coffins, by the way? One's made of zinc, I think. One's made of oak.

GALLAGHER: Right. The cypress one is the first one. It goes into the zinc one, which then will go into an oak or sort of chestnut coffin. And, you know, I just think that the symbolism there is putting obviously the zinc one to kind of protect the coffin. And then the third one just to sort of make it look nicer, really.

HEMMER: How many times can we ask why on this story?

GALLAGHER: Yes, I don't know how to interpret the three coffins exactly, but surely part of that is because it's going into the ground. And so the wood needs to be protected.

HEMMER: Let's talk about the will. How much of the will is likely to surprise us when details come out tomorrow, or not?

GALLAGHER: I don't think -- I don't expect there's anything really sort of headlining.

HEMMER: Why not?

GALLAGHER: Well, because I think that is going to be a sort of spiritual message for the world. You know, more than -- the only thing that would really -- what would surprise us? Well, it would surprise us if he said, you know, I want to go back to Poland and be there.

HEMMER: Sure.

GALLAGHER: So I don't know what could really surprise us at this point. I think it will just be a spiritual message for the world.

HEMMER: The other headline from the Vatican is that the conclave begins on Monday, April 18th. They will convene in the morning about 10:00 a.m. inside the Sistine Chapel. And there will be a vote that afternoon, one vote.

GALLAGHER: Yes. Let me tell you.

They will have a Mass first in St. Peter's in which people will be able to participate in. Then they will move to the Sistine Chapel. And I think that that part will be televised. So we'll be able to see.

They sing the "Litany of the Saints." It's quite beautiful.

And they go into the Sistine Chapel, as you say, and they'll have their first vote in the afternoon. Just one ballot. So I don't know that we can expect a conclusion on Monday. But it's possible.

HEMMER: One vote in the afternoon. They'll come back in the morning for two votes in the morning, two votes in the afternoon, and continue that process until...

GALLAGHER: Until we see the white smoke.

HEMMER: That's right. And this time, the bells will ring, too...

GALLAGHER: Yes.

HEMMER: ... in synchronicity. Thanks, Delia. We'll talk again. GALLAGHER: OK.

HEMMER: Back to New York again -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Coming up in just a moment on AMERICAN MORNING, a decade-old kidnapping case apparently solved. Police nab a fugitive inmate. But the biggest shocker is who they found him living with.

We're going to talk this morning with "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh. That's up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A decade-long manhunt for an escaped killer from Oklahoma is over. The escapee and the woman who vanished with him turned up this week in Texas, alive and well, and hiding in plain sight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDOLPH DIAL, INMATE: I regret to say that I was the hostage- taker. And I -- I'll probably live to regret it.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Sixty-year-old Randolph Dial now in custody nearly 11 years after escaping from an Oklahoma prison with a deputy warden's wife as his hostage. Based on a tip given to the TV show "America's Most Wanted," police found the convicted killer at a chicken farm in east Texas on Monday, where he was living and working with Bobbi Parker, the same woman he's believed to have kidnapped back in 1994.

The couple had been living together in virtual seclusion under assumed names near the Louisiana border. In a jailhouse interview, Dial said that despite living with Parker for 11 years, the woman remained a hostage.

DIAL: She was living under the impression that if she ever tried to get away, I would get away and I would make her regret it, particularly towards her family.

O'BRIEN: Randolph Dial was serving a life sentence for a 1981 murder. After nine years in an Oklahoma prison, the accomplished painter and sculptor earned special privileges, including working at the deputy warden's home.

In August 1994, he escaped, reportedly taking the deputy warden's wife at knife point. When police arrested him, authorities found a copy of the book "At Large," written about Dial's escape.

DIAL: You read that book and you get the impression that if you -- if you cross me, you will rue the day. And I think she believed that, and I think she still believes it. But she didn't have anything to do with me getting caught, so she's not in trouble.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Bobbi Parker's now been reunited with her husband. Randolph Dial is on his way back to Oklahoma to face charges. And, as we mentioned, it was a tip to "America's Most Wanted" that led to Dial's arrest.

John Walsh, the host of that popular TV program, joins us from Los Angeles this morning.

John, nice to see you again. Thanks for talking with us.

The tip came into "America's Most Wanted." Give us a sense of what exactly happened.

JOHN WALSH, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": Well a die-hard fan was visiting our Web site, amw.com, and saw Randolph Dial's picture, went into the Orange County District Attorney's office in Orange County, Texas, and said, "Hey, I think I'm working with a guy that has been on the run for 11 years. He's on 'America's Most wanted.'" And he was right on the money.

It was Randolph Dial. And a big fugitive squad, a joint task force took him down. He was at the trailer park, in the trailer that he lived in. And Bobbi Parker was working at the chicken ranch five miles away.

O'BRIEN: That's a remarkable part of the story. But maybe even the more remarkable part of the story is the relationship between Randolph Dial and Bobbi Parker. Bobbi Parker told police that all this time she'd been held against her will.

Dial said to the police essentially the same thing, that there was this inherent threat that he would come and get her if somehow she got away. But investigators, if you look closely at what they've been saying, some of them say -- have a tone of "Well, that's their story" kind of thing, almost indicating that they don't necessarily believe that she wasn't in cahoots with him in some way.

Explain this for me.

WALSH: Well, there's a great difference of opinion. Lots of people thought, of course, that he had kidnapped her initially at knife point, which he did, and that he had killed her, and that we would never find her body, and that he was on the run for 11 years. So those people were being shocked.

Other people say that she helped him escape, that he was teaching her pottery in the garage at her own home. That she had gotten him special privileges, and during those 11 years she would actually take his check, his payroll check, and go down to a feed store where they had an account and cash his check without him.

But a lot of people think she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, which Patty Hearst did, where a lot of times you will sympathize with your kidnapper. And he said that the murder he committed in 1981 was a hit.

He said he was a paid hit man for the mob. And I believe that he terrorized Bobbi Parker and said, look, if you try to tell anybody who you are, I can go back and kill your two daughters or kill you. And so, you know, he had that credibility of being a hit man.

O'BRIEN: We talked about the book "At Large," which was written by a former detective on his case. Randolph Dial went to the book signing and handed over a book to the author, who didn't -- the former detective, who didn't even recognize him. And apparently he'd been selling some of his paintings. He had sort of been in and out, recognizable, or potentially recognizable in some ways.

Why was he never caught before this?

WALSH: Well, he certainly had a lot of chutzpah. And it was a game to him, but he was good at the game.

He knew how to stay -- to lay low. He went to a very remote part of Texas. And he played that game.

And -- but we never gave up. We profiled him I think four times on "America's Most Wanted." And again, that tipster, that wonderful tipster that was looking at our Web site, I mean, we've caught four guys off the FBI's 10 most wanted from this Web site. But this tipster had the guts to go in there. And as arrogant as Randolph Dial was about not getting caught, he did get caught.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, he's caught now. John Walsh, from "America's Most Wanted."

Nice to see you, John. Thanks a lot.

WALSH: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's go back to Rome and Bill Hemmer.

Good morning again, Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, hello.

In a moment here, we're going to talk about the politics of the papacy. Are there coalitions new forming in the selection of the next leader of the church? We'll talk about that in a moment. Our coverage continues live here at the Vatican right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Pope John Paul II was a prolific writer, authoring numerous books in his lifetime. According to the Vatican, all proceeds from the sales of those books go to charity.

And as of Tuesday, five of the pope's books rank among amazon's.com top 25 sellers. Among those listed, an autobiographical account of John Paul's early years and a book of poetry.

He also wrote plays. Did you know that?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: He was a very, bright man. Spoke seven languages or something. And a keen intellect.

O'BRIEN: Yes. He sure was.

CAFFERTY: Troubling news on the home front, Soledad. African- Americans falling further behind whites when it come to their economic status. The annual National Urban League report is out today, and it says that African-Americans have achieved only 57 percent of the economic status of whites.

The unemployment gap is huge, 10.8 percent among blacks, 4.7 percent among whites. Financial progress that was being made by blacks in the 1990s appears to have stalled.

The question this morning is, what should be done to close the wealth gap between black and whites in this country?

George in Chicago writes, "If there's ever going to be true social and economic progress in the African-American community, it has to begin with the realization that people like Bill Cosby and Colin Powell are better role models than people like Fifty Cent or Latrell Sprewell."

Amen. Michael in Tennessee writes, "I'm a black man and I believe that black America mocks itself by claims that they are victims. Go out, get a job. It's not that hard."

O'BRIEN: That's sensitive, Michael.

CAFFERTY: Huh?

O'BRIEN: That's sensitive from that writer. Just commenting. Go ahead -- sorry.

CAFFERTY: Can I do this one now?

O'BRIEN: Yes, you may. Continue.

CAFFERTY: Cheryl in Texas, "Perhaps parents can encourage youth to get more ka-ching and less bling. The best advice my parents gave me was to invest in companies promoting materialism instead of buying the stuff."

Randy in Ontario writes, "Until you stop rewarding athletic scholarships regardless of grades, or seriously try to eliminate the thousands of gangs in America, or limit the number of children a welfare recipient can have, it will never change."

O'BRIEN: Interesting feedback this morning. Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: Well, for the first time ever, the Catholic Church is picking a new pope in an age of instant communication. And it may already be changing the way that the cardinals will do business. We've got details on that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Back here in Rome as our coverage continue, my next guest says if you are too ambitious, you will not get the job as pope. We'll talk about that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING, everybody. We're coming to you this morning from both New York City and Rome, Italy. Let's get back to Bill Hemmer in Rome.

Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad.

Learning more information, too, about these mourners. These lines are just -- are absolutely massive. It's very difficult for us to show our viewers at home through a television camera just how large and how many people now are waiting, not only in the streets of the Vatican, but all through the city of Rome now, as that line snakes away.

The latest word we have is a report that the line will be cut off later tonight, maybe six hours from now, which would put it right around 9:00 or 10:00 in the evening. Meaning that if you're not in line at that point, there will be no other opportunity to get in line and pay final respects for Pope John Paul II.

That makes a little bit of sense, because tonight will mark the 24-hour mark away from when the heads of state, like President Bush, are set to view Pope John Paul II's body. And also, we've heard through the Vatican they want to close the church Thursday evening so they can prepare St. Peter's Basilica for the funeral that will take place on Friday. And again, just a massive outpouring here.

The other bit of news -- and this is significant, too -- the conclave will begin in 12 days. That's on Monday, April 18th. The cardinals will convene inside the Sistine Chapel. They will take one vote that day in the afternoon.

Let's talk about that now with Father Thomas Reese, editor of "American Magazine," my guest here now in Italy.

Nice to see you.

REV. THOMAS REESE, EDITOR, "AMERICAN MAGAZINE": Nice to see you, Bill.

HEMMER: And good afternoon. You say if you're overly ambitious you can forget about getting this job. What do you mean by that?

REESE: Well, this is an election like no election we've ever seen in the United States. There's no, you know, campaign, bumper stickers -- no buttons, no TV ads. The -- you know, they're looking for someone who is going to head the church. And, you know, this should not be someone who's ambitious or arrogant and thinks he's so great he should be pope. Usually it's somebody you're dragging and kicking into taking the job.

HEMMER: You know, you also talk about the possibility -- as a cardinal, you don't walk around, say, hey, vote for me, but there is a little bit of that going around. Who does that, if it's taking place?

REESE: Your friends do, people who know you, who respect you, who think you'd make a great pope. They go around and tell the other cardinals what a wonderful person you are, and how -- and hand out speeches that you've given or books that you've written and say, see, this guy really is the one that we need to follow John Paul II.

HEMMER: If the Italians are ready to return the papacy to Italy, because it was here for the past 455 years before this pope from Poland emerged and won it back in 1978, how would you know if they're ready and willing to vote as a bloc, or would we even know that?

REESE: Well, we don't know that, and it doesn't appear they are yet ready to do that. You have to remember that, prior to the 20th century, the Italians took -- composed about 80 or 90 percent of the College of Cardinals, so they had a real hammerlock on it. Today, it's only 17 percent of the College of Cardinals, less, in fact, than was the case when John Paul II was elected. So they no longer have the control. If they were united, they certainly would have an impact, but there's a half a dozen people that they're talking about who are Italian cardinals that may be the next pope.

HEMMER: I read some comments one time, I think it was from you, talking about if you do not believe this is a political event, you're not quite sure what you understand.

REESE: Well, I'm a political scientist, so political's not a bad word for me. When two or more people gather together, you have a political society.

You know, by political, we mean, well, it's an election, you know. So how do you -- you got to tell people about the man you think ought to be pope. You go around and you say, hey, you try to persuade people. If that's -- it's not partisan. We don't have, you know, a left-wing party and right-wing party. I don't think we have that kind of thing in the church. But we do have, you know, 117 men who have to figure out who's going to be the next pope, and they'll do it through debate and conversation, and we call that politics.

HEMMER: One final question here. We know the cardinals are sworn to secrecy, and we may learn precious few details over the coming weeks, or months or maybe even years, for that matter. If you break that code of secrecy, is there a punishment for that?

REESE: Well, no is the honest answer.

HEMMER: You cannot get excommunicated, kicked out? REESE: Well, after the last conclave secrets got out. What would typically happen is that the cardinals who are in the conclave told the over 80 cardinals who were out of the conclave, and then they might tell -- or they might tell a bishop friend in confidence, and then, you know -- they say in Rome, a secret is something you tell only one person at a time.

HEMMER: Well, we'll watch that. Great to see you. Father Thomas Reese, thanks again.

We know the conclave is set Monday, April 18th, it will begin. And we also know that public details of the will will be made public anyway, tomorrow, on Thursday. That's it from Rome.

For now, back to New York and Carol Costello with the rest of the news back there.

Carol, good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill.

President Bush is en route to Rome this hour to pay his final respects to Pope John Paul II. The president departing from Andrews Air Force Base just a short time ago. He lead a small delegation, including the first lady, his father, former President Bush, and former President Bill Clinton. As you know, the pope's funeral is set for this Friday.

At least nine people now confirmed dead after a coalition helicopter go down in Afghanistan. The U.S. military says the chopper went down about 100 miles southwest of Kabul. Severe weather being blamed for the crash.

Iraq has its first democratically elected president. The 275- member National Assembly chose a Kurdish leader to head the country earlier today. The group also elected two vice presidents. The vote took place at a televised session reportedly made available to the ousted president, Saddam Hussein.

Officials in India and Pakistan say a historic bus ride across Kashmir would go ahead as scheduled, despite an attack on the passengers. Officials say rebels stormed a government building, holding passengers waiting for tomorrow's ride. Two buildings at the complex were gutted by fire and smoke. You're seeing it there. There is word at least two attackers were killed. Three people were hurt.

The famed Casino of Monte Carlo closing its doors today. Monaco is in mourning, following the news of the death of Prince Rainier. He died hours ago of lung, heart and kidney problems. Prince Albert, his son and heir, was at his side. The 81-year-old prince is expected to be buried alongside his late wife, Princess Grace. No word yet on when that will take place.

And ABC News anchor Peter Jennings is scheduled to begin chemotherapy on Monday. The 66-year-old Jennings announced Tuesday that he has lung cancer. How advanced the disease is unclear. At the end of last night's broadcast of "World News Tonight," Jennings addressed his viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: I will continue to do the broadcast on good days. My voice will not always be like this. Certainly, it's been a long time, and I hope it goes without saying that a journalist who doesn't value deeply the audience's loyalty should be in another line of work. To be perfectly honest, I'm a little surprised at the kindness today from so many people. That's not intended as false modesty, but even I was taken aback by how far and how fast news travels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You shouldn't be surprised, Peter. ABC's Charles Gibson and Elizabeth Vargas will be Jenning's primary substitutes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Back here in Rome, Italy now. This is the first time a conclave will ever convene in an age of communications, with the Internet and cell phones. And as we go through this process, beginning in 12 days from now, bear in mind that all of this is supposed to be held in secret inside the Sistine Chapel. There is some concern in Italy now that it may not be so secret after all, but that is certainly something we'll have to all wait and see as the conclave unfolds. That is one of the questions we put to the Vatican Media Office earlier today. Archbishop John Patrick Foley is in charge of that office here at the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Archbishop Foley, thank you for your time.

You are learning more about what we can see on this Friday during the funeral that you can now share with us. What are those details?

ARCHBISHOP JOHN FOLEY, VATICAN MEDIA OFFICE: Yes. In fact, this morning, I was spending part of my morning translating from the Latin, the book is used for the funeral of the Holy Father. And I think some things that will be very impressive, I think, and I imagine we'll be able to see these on television, before the coffin is brought out to St. Peter's Square, the pope's secretary and the master of ceremonies will put a white veil, a white, silk veil, over the face of the Holy Father, while reciting a prayer that says "Now he will be looking upon your face, Oh, Lord," a beautiful prayer. And then they will put the pope's body in a cypress wooden coffin, bring it out to the sagrada (ph), as it's called, of the basilica, right in front of the basilica.

And then Cardinal Ratzinger, the dean of the College of Cardinals, will be the principal celebrant, together with all of the cardinals, of the funeral mass of Pope John Paul. So all the cardinals will come celebrate that mass. He will also preach the homily at that mass.

HEMMER: Now some of this we already knew, but you're diving into all the details that were written out nine years ago.

FOLEY: Yes, and I just got them yesterday myself.

HEMMER: So you're learning as we're learning in many ways.

FOLEY: Absolutely, yes.

HEMMER: This is a pope that once said if it doesn't happen on TV, it doesn't happen.

FOLEY: He said that to Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore, and I was with Cardinal Keeler at the time. Cardinal Keeler wanted to have a TV camera from a local station take a presentation, take images of a presentation, that was being made to the Holy Father. And he said, Holy Father, may we do this for the station in Baltimore? And the Holy Father said, if it doesn't happen on television, it doesn't happen.

HEMMER: So he knew the power of communication, and he was quite aware of how the world was changing, too, with regard to that.

FOLEY: And the last major document that was released by the Holy Father, in February, was on communications, the first major document of the pope on communications and the last major document that he released.

HEMMER: You know, the last couple of days, when you had the private viewing on Sunday and on Monday, not so private when you broadcast it to the world over Vatican TV. Is that a sign of things to come for the funeral on Friday? And if so, what more will be different for the viewing audience at home?

FOLEY: Well, first of all, the pope founded the Vatican TV Center. That didn't exist before he was pope. That was founded in 1983. And, as you saw, the -- all of the ceremonies in the chapel upstairs, in the Clementine Hall, were shown, that wonderful and moving procession, which I participated on Monday afternoon, down the Royal staircase, out into the square, just as if the Holy Father was going there in his pope-mobile -- but this time, being carried in state. Up into the basilica for lying in state for these millions of pilgrims -- we have to call them -- mourners, but pilgrims, coming here to pray for the Holy Father and for the church.

HEMMER: One final question -- if he understood the power of television, was there anything that you're reading now that may be different or unexpected come Friday for that funeral?

FOLEY: I don't see anything that's unexpected for the funeral. And, in fact, one thing I think that you should know, the Holy Father, in this major document he wrote, said people live now in an environment of communications. They're profoundly affected by it, it even affects their relationships. So he said make sure you use the media for good, because it can bring people together. It can be a cause for peace and unity in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: Thank you very much. Pleasure talking to you. Archbishop Foley from earlier today.

The president now en route to Rome, Italy. The funeral takes place on Friday. But inside of St. Peter's Basilica, if you took all the great works in the Renaissance period, added them all up, what would the ultimate price tag be? You might be surprised by the answer. We'll have it for you after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Vatican City is in the heart of the Roman Catholic Church and the spiritual center to the world's one billion Catholic pilgrims. So what's it worth in dollars and cents? You might be surprised. Rudi Bakhtiar explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's less than half a square mile and yet it's a nation unto itself. The Vatican, rich in centuries of priceless art and architecture. The Sistine Chapel, it's domed ceiling painted by Michelangelo. St. Peter's Basilica with a tomb of Christ's apostle Peter below the papal altar. The Pieta, the Vatican Library, one of the world's richest repositories of ancient manuscripts. Put your arms around these priceless treasures and guess, what's the Vatican really worth?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: People have these notions that there are vast islands of wealth here. I mean, the truth is, the Vatican's a pretty lean and mean operation.

BAKHTIAR: Let's take a look at some of the numbers. The annual operating budget for the Vatican, $260 million. Property holdings of the Holy See, about $770 million. Add to that 18,000 pieces of art by the likes of Michelangelo, Raphael, Dante, Homer -- so what's the grand total? A whole lot less than you would expect. Yes, say the experts, the Vatican does have tremendous artistic wealth, but the Vatican insists the precious artwork and real estate it possesses are held in trust for humanity. What does that mean? St. Peter's Basilica is valued at slightly more than $1.

ALLEN: Interestingly, the Vatican lists all of that stuff on its book at one euro, in terms of value. And that's because, from their point of view, it can never be sold. It can never be borrowed against. Therefore, it produces no revenue for them.

BAKHTIAR: We tried contacting Christie's and Sotheby's to inquire, hypothetically, about the fair market value of some of the Vatican's treasures, but we didn't have much luck. Nor did CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen when he tried to attach a price tag to some of these assets.

ALLEN: I once interviewed an Italian contractor to ask him, if you were to build St. Peter's Basilica today, how much would it cost you to put together? And he started trying to do the research to answer my question and called me back and said, can't be done. Nobody would build this building. By today's standards the cost would be so astronomic that it is simply impossible to calculate.

BAKHTIAR: At various times the Vatican has reportedly faced calls that it sell off its treasures to finance its operations or help the poor. According to Allen, it's the Vatican's fundamental law these precious assets can never be sold.

Rudi Bakhtiar, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a little hint, a little insight into what it might actually be worth. When the Sistine Chapel was cleaned more than a decade ago, the price tag there was over $4 million. Cleaning.

One national pastime is getting more expensive. With that and an early check of the markets, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Good morning. Four million dollars to clean the Sistine Chapel?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes. Well, maybe that's a bargain. I mean, it's all about the money.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Maybe it was really dirty.

SERWER: Yes. All those pigeons flying around, don't you know?

Let's check about the markets first of all this morning. Stocks trading up at this hour. We're about 28 points on the Dow. Lower oil prices are what's happening and that is a good thing for investors in the stock market.

First of all, before we get to baseball, Soledad, want to talk about Wal-Mart because a rare public victory for this giant company, which has had a number of PR black eyes over the past year or so. Yesterday in Bennington, Vermont, citizens there voted overwhelmingly to overturn a rule that would have capped the sizes of big box stores and prevented Wal-Mart from building a big store there or expanding a small store. In other words, Wal-Mart is now free to build a large 112,000 square foot store in Bennington. And this is in Vermont, of course, where the company has faced a tremendous amount of opposition. Interesting stuff, I think.

Let's talk about the national pastime, because guess what? Prices for tickets are going up. 6.3 percent on average. The average cost of a ticket at a Major League park is now $21.17. These are the most expensive cities to go see a game. Fenway Park, $44.46 -- 9.3 percent increase in prices. Two reasons, they won the World Series.

CAFFERTY: Yes, they're the champions.

SERWER: Number one.

CAFFERTY: And number two...

O'BRIEN: There's a long time between the winnings, so come on. SERWER: Yes, no but they had a long time before the -- number two, it's the smallest park in the majors, so they have to charge the most. I don't know if I would pay that much, though, Jack, to go to Fenway Park.

CAFFERTY: Well, because you're a New Yorker and a Yankees fan.

SERWER: Yes, I am. Yes, I am.

Now here are the cheapest places. Now, you'd have to probably pay me $13.70 to go see the D-Rays play. That's in a dome in Florida. Think about that. I was in Kansas City yesterday, and not a lot of interest in the Royals -- there were more AMERICAN MORNING fans I met in Kansas City than Royals fans. Seriously, people were like, when do the Chiefs start playing again? I said, the baseball season just started. There was not a lot of interest in the Royals.

CAFFERTY: That's because they haven't contended for a long time. Back in the days when they had George Brett and the old pine tar incident -- they used to have those great series against the Yankees back and forth. Days are long gone.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I was going to say, that was a long time ago, because I remember those baseball cards. Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: Yep. OK. You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: Final look at the "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: "Question of the Day." What should be done to close the wealth gap between blacks and whites in this country? National Urban League report out showing that the progress, economically, the blacks were making in the 1990s apparently has stalled. The difference in the unemployment rates between the races is widening. And so we thought we'd asked the question, what to do about it.

Steve in Florida writes, "To close the wealth gap, we must first close the education gap, slap a salary cap on ballplayers, start paying teachers a quarter of a million bucks a year, and see how fast teaching becomes competitive and schools become palaces." That's a hell of an idea.

J.R. in Louisiana writes, "This administration has done little to reach out to any community except upper-class, white Big Business cronies. Access to equal education, tax reform for minority business, and an atmosphere where minorities can aspire to greater things than sports and music would do wonders."

And this letter from Deanne (ph) in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She absolutely has her knickers in a knot. Isn't that where Harvard is, Cambridge?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.

CAFFERTY: You're included in this. "As an Ivy League-educated African-American Studies professor, I was profoundly offended by the insensitive comments made and the lack of historical awareness displayed by Jack and Soledad. Since economically disenfranchised people of color are never featured on your show, this bias is a clever, though not very subtle, way of preventing any thoughtful racial discourse."

O'BRIEN: Written like a Harvard professor. What the heck is she saying?

CAFFERTY: What the hell does that mean?

O'BRIEN: I have no idea.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: No, I think she wants to get on the show. She wants to get on the show.

O'BRIEN: Me, just because I'm sitting next to you.

CAFFERTY: Most days they're offended by me. Today they're also offended by you.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: As a woman of several races and colors and blah, blah, blah, blah...

CAFFERTY: People like Deanne there, that's the reason I quit college at first.

O'BRIEN: And you know what, I thought we had pretty good thoughtful racial discourse today, especially with Charles Barkley's new book, a fascinating look at race. As he said that's a big issue for him personally because his child is multiracial.

CAFFERTY: You know, you don't have to defend yourself against these people.

O'BRIEN: That's why I could never do this segment.

CAFFERTY: We'd be here to noon.

O'BRIEN: We'd never get to anything else.

CAFFERTY: Opinions are like noses, everybody has one.

O'BRIEN: I get all personally upset. I'm offended back at you, Deanne.

CAFFERTY: I don't recall you jumping to my defense when it's me they insult daily. You never say, hey, you're being unfair to Jack.

O'BRIEN: Usually I'm like, I hear you, sister.

CAFFERTY: Yes, right on, you go, girl.

O'BRIEN: Today she's attacking me. If it had just been you, I would have been like, you go girl. Today, it's us.

CAFFERTY: Have you noticed that? Put her name in the thing and we do another telethon here.

O'BRIEN: Suddenly, I'm incensed. Short break. We'll end it here.

SERWER: Nice to see the solidarity here with you two.

O'BRIEN: We're back in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Over 26 years, Pope John Paul II made countless appointments in his time as leader of the Catholic Church, but his very first appointment was choosing an Irish bishop to be his right- hand man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BISHOP JOHN MAGEE, SECRETARY TO POPE JOHN PAUL II: My heart is broken. I loved him.

HEMMER: Bishop John Mcgee is remembering a man he considered his father. For nine years, McGee was the personal assistant to the pope. Few have seen him so close.

MAGEE: And so I was in charge of arranging all of that, in every country.

HEMMER: In 64 countries, he was at the pontiff's side, planning nearly every stop. There is the line of 10 million in Mexico, the crowd of five million for a single mass in Manila.

MAGEE: And the way he did touch them, you know, he has no inhibitions whatsoever about giving a kiss or touch of the cheek. He was totally at home.

HEMMER: Bishop Magee found a man with a sense of humor and a love for sports, skiing and swimming among his favorites. But nothing prepared him for this week, and the sight of seeing his friend gone from this world.

MAGEE: I was very sad to see the state in which his face was, because I knew him in the years when he was in full health. It shows on his face. It's not Pope John Paul II that I knew.

HEMMER: He is left with memories and a ring on his finger, given to him by the Holy Father. And this week, as more memories come back, Bishop Magee thinks this crowd is exactly what the pope would like to see.

MAGEE: He's at peace with God. And this is -- this river of humanity that is now going towards the basilica to pay their respects to that most beautiful man. I think in the history of the world I don't think there is any human being that has captured the hearts of so many.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Bishop Magee and the river of humanity. Tomorrow here on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," live in Italy, we will show you a special presentation of the Swiss Guards in charge of keeping this place safe for 500 years. What do they do? You'll hear that story tomorrow, as our coverage continues in a moment, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 6, 2005 - 08:59   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. The conclave is now set and the pope's will will be made public tomorrow. All this as the mourners now number in the millions.
Also, one of the longest-serving monarchs ever has died. Remembering Prince Rainier on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien, reporting from New York this morning. Much more to tell you about, not only about the pope, but other stories making headlines today, as we come to you from both New York and Rome, Italy.

Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad. Hello again from high above the Vatican here.

We learned more details earlier today, Soledad -- in fact, about 90 minutes ago -- from the spokesperson from the Vatican on a number of items. And quickly, I want to tick them off to you.

We now know the conclave will take place on Monday April 18th. That's 12 days from now. We know the pope's final will be made public tomorrow.

We understand the cardinals have already seen this. We will find out more details on Thursday.

Also, there has no secret cardinal appointed by this pope. There were a number of reports over the past several days that said that would happen. But apparently that will not be the case.

Also, the Vatican saying up to a million people in the first 24 hours have filed past the body of Pope John Paul II. And again today they still continue to come in the thousands and tens of thousands outside of Vatican City.

President Bush is en route to Rome. He'll arrive later tonight. And he will be one of 200 heads of state to attend the funeral of Pope John Paul II. That will take place Friday morning here in Rome.

Want to give you an idea right now -- since we now know the conclave will begin in 12 days, this is the image the world will be watching on Monday, April 18th. This is the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel. Out of that chimney is where the smoke will come out, either black, meaning they're still deciding, or white if they've decided on the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

And this is the magnificent interior of the Sistine Chapel. By way of -- by way of graphics we can show you where the cardinals will meet, convening in secret inside the Sistine Chapel, taking two votes in the morning and two votes in the afternoon.

However, there will be one vote on that Monday. That vote will take place in the afternoon. It is possible we could have a pope on the afternoon of the 18th. We'll wait and see on that.

Delia Gallagher with me. In a moment, we'll talk more this in depth in a moment here -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Our other top story this morning, Europe's longest-serving monarch is dead. Monaco's Prince Rainier died early this morning.

The cause, according to the palace, a lung infection and heart problems. He was 81 years old.

The prince had been hospitalized since early last month and too sick to function. His executive powers were handed over to his son, Prince Albert, six days ago.

The 47-year-old Prince Albert is not married, has no children. Monaco's succession rules were changed a few years ago to allow the bachelor, Albert, to inherit the throne.

Among other things, Prince Rainier is credited with turning Monaco, a tiny little tract of land, into a playground for the world's rich and famous and for his own family. Here's CNN's Chris Burns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While turning Monaco into a prosperous world stage for fast cars, high-rolling gamblers and glitterati seeking a tax haven, Prince Rainier also headed a dysfunctional royal family, steeped in scandal and tragedy.

After his fairy tale wedding to American actress Grace Kelly in 1956, the couple raised three children who grew into young and restless aristocrats. Princess Stephanie, dubbed the wild child, survived the car crash that killed her mother in 1982, but said she never emotionally recovered. She's known for her colorful boyfriends, her tattoos, and her dabbling in pop stardom, modeling and fashion design.

Stephanie had two children with her former bodyguard, Daniel Ducruet, married him in 1995, then divorced him the following year after he was photographed cavorting with a former Miss Topless Belgium, allegedly in a setup. She had a third child out of wedlock, then married a circus trapeze artist. But has since split up and was reportedly seeing Ducruet again.

Princess Caroline was 21 when she married a French playboy banker, Philippe Junot, in 1978. Junot sold their Tahiti honeymoon photos, and she divorced him two years later.

Caroline then married Italian property magnate Stefano Casiraghi, with whom she raised three children. Casiraghi died in a speedboat racing accident in 1990.

Her third husband, Prince Ernst, of Hanover, was said to have been Grace's choice for Caroline. But he's caused headlines himself. He was fined for attacking a hotel owner and a photographer.

Prince Albert, heir to the principality, is still a bachelor at 47. Denying rumors he's gay, he dates actresses and supermodels. Still, Prince Rainier amended Monaco's constitution in 2002 to allow one of his daughters to provide a successor just in case to keep Monaco from falling under French control, which would end seven centuries of Grimaldi family rule and end decades of tabloid mischief.

Chris Burns, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: And, in fact, after Albert's line of succession, it passes to his older sister, 48-year-old Princess Caroline and her 20- year-old son.

Let's get right to our headlines with Carol Costello this morning, starting with breaking news out of Afghanistan.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Soledad, we are starting with this breaking news out of Afghanistan.

At least nine people now confirmed dead in that helicopter crash. We told you about this earlier. The U.S. military says the CH-17 Chinook -- the CH-47, rather, Chinook chopper went down about 100 miles southwest of Kabul during a routine mission in severe weather.

Preparations under way for the swearing in of Iraq's first democratically-elected president. Jalal Talabani was chosen by Iraq's 275-member new transitional assembly earlier today. The position is largely symbolic, and so is the vote. Talabani is a Kurd, the minority group largely persecuted under Saddam Hussein.

Preliminary jury selection gets under way today for the trial of Eric Rudolph. He's the North Carolina man accused of setting a bomb outside of an abortion clinic in 1998. That attack killed a police officer. Some 500 people have been ordered to report to an Alabama courthouse this morning. Rudolph could face the death penalty. And funeral service for famed attorney Johnnie Cochran will be held today in Los Angeles. Preparations now under way at the West Angeles Cathedral. Among those expected to attend, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Quincy Jones. Cochran died over a week ago from a brain tumor. He was just 67.

And officials in Pennsylvania are beginning to total up the damage from a weekend flooding. Thousands of homes and businesses along the Delaware and other rivers are in need of repair.

The costs expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars. Residents say bulldozers are clearing streets -- where possible, that is -- with insurance agents hopping from one home to the next.

And there is severe weather in other parts of the country this morning. Chad has latest for us now.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We know the conclave begins on Monday, April 18. And tomorrow, we'll await more details on what the pope contained in his final will. Back to our Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, to take us through a number of these items.

Good afternoon again to you.

We also found out that in his coffin something very interesting will be placed. First of all, there are three coffins, we should point out, too.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, there will be three coffins. The first one is a cypress wood coffin. They have a ceremony that they call for the closing of the coffin. That's a private ceremony.

We don't know if we'll be able to see that. It happens before the funeral, obviously.

And inside the coffin, they have traditionally always placed inside pope's coffins coins from his pontificate. They also traditionally place a thing called the rogito (ph), which is a summary of the pope's life.

This obviously for sort of 2,000 years' time on, somebody opens the coffin and can see who this man was and see the coins from the pontificate. But interestingly, in this pontificate in Italy they had a changeover from the Italian lira to the euro, and so we were told yesterday they will be putting in bronze and silver medals from the pontificate instead of the coins.

HEMMER: That's interesting. Why are there three coffins, by the way? One's made of zinc, I think. One's made of oak.

GALLAGHER: Right. The cypress one is the first one. It goes into the zinc one, which then will go into an oak or sort of chestnut coffin. And, you know, I just think that the symbolism there is putting obviously the zinc one to kind of protect the coffin. And then the third one just to sort of make it look nicer, really.

HEMMER: How many times can we ask why on this story?

GALLAGHER: Yes, I don't know how to interpret the three coffins exactly, but surely part of that is because it's going into the ground. And so the wood needs to be protected.

HEMMER: Let's talk about the will. How much of the will is likely to surprise us when details come out tomorrow, or not?

GALLAGHER: I don't think -- I don't expect there's anything really sort of headlining.

HEMMER: Why not?

GALLAGHER: Well, because I think that is going to be a sort of spiritual message for the world. You know, more than -- the only thing that would really -- what would surprise us? Well, it would surprise us if he said, you know, I want to go back to Poland and be there.

HEMMER: Sure.

GALLAGHER: So I don't know what could really surprise us at this point. I think it will just be a spiritual message for the world.

HEMMER: The other headline from the Vatican is that the conclave begins on Monday, April 18th. They will convene in the morning about 10:00 a.m. inside the Sistine Chapel. And there will be a vote that afternoon, one vote.

GALLAGHER: Yes. Let me tell you.

They will have a Mass first in St. Peter's in which people will be able to participate in. Then they will move to the Sistine Chapel. And I think that that part will be televised. So we'll be able to see.

They sing the "Litany of the Saints." It's quite beautiful.

And they go into the Sistine Chapel, as you say, and they'll have their first vote in the afternoon. Just one ballot. So I don't know that we can expect a conclusion on Monday. But it's possible.

HEMMER: One vote in the afternoon. They'll come back in the morning for two votes in the morning, two votes in the afternoon, and continue that process until...

GALLAGHER: Until we see the white smoke.

HEMMER: That's right. And this time, the bells will ring, too...

GALLAGHER: Yes.

HEMMER: ... in synchronicity. Thanks, Delia. We'll talk again. GALLAGHER: OK.

HEMMER: Back to New York again -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks.

Coming up in just a moment on AMERICAN MORNING, a decade-old kidnapping case apparently solved. Police nab a fugitive inmate. But the biggest shocker is who they found him living with.

We're going to talk this morning with "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh. That's up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A decade-long manhunt for an escaped killer from Oklahoma is over. The escapee and the woman who vanished with him turned up this week in Texas, alive and well, and hiding in plain sight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDOLPH DIAL, INMATE: I regret to say that I was the hostage- taker. And I -- I'll probably live to regret it.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Sixty-year-old Randolph Dial now in custody nearly 11 years after escaping from an Oklahoma prison with a deputy warden's wife as his hostage. Based on a tip given to the TV show "America's Most Wanted," police found the convicted killer at a chicken farm in east Texas on Monday, where he was living and working with Bobbi Parker, the same woman he's believed to have kidnapped back in 1994.

The couple had been living together in virtual seclusion under assumed names near the Louisiana border. In a jailhouse interview, Dial said that despite living with Parker for 11 years, the woman remained a hostage.

DIAL: She was living under the impression that if she ever tried to get away, I would get away and I would make her regret it, particularly towards her family.

O'BRIEN: Randolph Dial was serving a life sentence for a 1981 murder. After nine years in an Oklahoma prison, the accomplished painter and sculptor earned special privileges, including working at the deputy warden's home.

In August 1994, he escaped, reportedly taking the deputy warden's wife at knife point. When police arrested him, authorities found a copy of the book "At Large," written about Dial's escape.

DIAL: You read that book and you get the impression that if you -- if you cross me, you will rue the day. And I think she believed that, and I think she still believes it. But she didn't have anything to do with me getting caught, so she's not in trouble.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Bobbi Parker's now been reunited with her husband. Randolph Dial is on his way back to Oklahoma to face charges. And, as we mentioned, it was a tip to "America's Most Wanted" that led to Dial's arrest.

John Walsh, the host of that popular TV program, joins us from Los Angeles this morning.

John, nice to see you again. Thanks for talking with us.

The tip came into "America's Most Wanted." Give us a sense of what exactly happened.

JOHN WALSH, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": Well a die-hard fan was visiting our Web site, amw.com, and saw Randolph Dial's picture, went into the Orange County District Attorney's office in Orange County, Texas, and said, "Hey, I think I'm working with a guy that has been on the run for 11 years. He's on 'America's Most wanted.'" And he was right on the money.

It was Randolph Dial. And a big fugitive squad, a joint task force took him down. He was at the trailer park, in the trailer that he lived in. And Bobbi Parker was working at the chicken ranch five miles away.

O'BRIEN: That's a remarkable part of the story. But maybe even the more remarkable part of the story is the relationship between Randolph Dial and Bobbi Parker. Bobbi Parker told police that all this time she'd been held against her will.

Dial said to the police essentially the same thing, that there was this inherent threat that he would come and get her if somehow she got away. But investigators, if you look closely at what they've been saying, some of them say -- have a tone of "Well, that's their story" kind of thing, almost indicating that they don't necessarily believe that she wasn't in cahoots with him in some way.

Explain this for me.

WALSH: Well, there's a great difference of opinion. Lots of people thought, of course, that he had kidnapped her initially at knife point, which he did, and that he had killed her, and that we would never find her body, and that he was on the run for 11 years. So those people were being shocked.

Other people say that she helped him escape, that he was teaching her pottery in the garage at her own home. That she had gotten him special privileges, and during those 11 years she would actually take his check, his payroll check, and go down to a feed store where they had an account and cash his check without him.

But a lot of people think she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, which Patty Hearst did, where a lot of times you will sympathize with your kidnapper. And he said that the murder he committed in 1981 was a hit.

He said he was a paid hit man for the mob. And I believe that he terrorized Bobbi Parker and said, look, if you try to tell anybody who you are, I can go back and kill your two daughters or kill you. And so, you know, he had that credibility of being a hit man.

O'BRIEN: We talked about the book "At Large," which was written by a former detective on his case. Randolph Dial went to the book signing and handed over a book to the author, who didn't -- the former detective, who didn't even recognize him. And apparently he'd been selling some of his paintings. He had sort of been in and out, recognizable, or potentially recognizable in some ways.

Why was he never caught before this?

WALSH: Well, he certainly had a lot of chutzpah. And it was a game to him, but he was good at the game.

He knew how to stay -- to lay low. He went to a very remote part of Texas. And he played that game.

And -- but we never gave up. We profiled him I think four times on "America's Most Wanted." And again, that tipster, that wonderful tipster that was looking at our Web site, I mean, we've caught four guys off the FBI's 10 most wanted from this Web site. But this tipster had the guts to go in there. And as arrogant as Randolph Dial was about not getting caught, he did get caught.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, he's caught now. John Walsh, from "America's Most Wanted."

Nice to see you, John. Thanks a lot.

WALSH: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's go back to Rome and Bill Hemmer.

Good morning again, Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, hello.

In a moment here, we're going to talk about the politics of the papacy. Are there coalitions new forming in the selection of the next leader of the church? We'll talk about that in a moment. Our coverage continues live here at the Vatican right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Pope John Paul II was a prolific writer, authoring numerous books in his lifetime. According to the Vatican, all proceeds from the sales of those books go to charity.

And as of Tuesday, five of the pope's books rank among amazon's.com top 25 sellers. Among those listed, an autobiographical account of John Paul's early years and a book of poetry.

He also wrote plays. Did you know that?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: He was a very, bright man. Spoke seven languages or something. And a keen intellect.

O'BRIEN: Yes. He sure was.

CAFFERTY: Troubling news on the home front, Soledad. African- Americans falling further behind whites when it come to their economic status. The annual National Urban League report is out today, and it says that African-Americans have achieved only 57 percent of the economic status of whites.

The unemployment gap is huge, 10.8 percent among blacks, 4.7 percent among whites. Financial progress that was being made by blacks in the 1990s appears to have stalled.

The question this morning is, what should be done to close the wealth gap between black and whites in this country?

George in Chicago writes, "If there's ever going to be true social and economic progress in the African-American community, it has to begin with the realization that people like Bill Cosby and Colin Powell are better role models than people like Fifty Cent or Latrell Sprewell."

Amen. Michael in Tennessee writes, "I'm a black man and I believe that black America mocks itself by claims that they are victims. Go out, get a job. It's not that hard."

O'BRIEN: That's sensitive, Michael.

CAFFERTY: Huh?

O'BRIEN: That's sensitive from that writer. Just commenting. Go ahead -- sorry.

CAFFERTY: Can I do this one now?

O'BRIEN: Yes, you may. Continue.

CAFFERTY: Cheryl in Texas, "Perhaps parents can encourage youth to get more ka-ching and less bling. The best advice my parents gave me was to invest in companies promoting materialism instead of buying the stuff."

Randy in Ontario writes, "Until you stop rewarding athletic scholarships regardless of grades, or seriously try to eliminate the thousands of gangs in America, or limit the number of children a welfare recipient can have, it will never change."

O'BRIEN: Interesting feedback this morning. Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: Well, for the first time ever, the Catholic Church is picking a new pope in an age of instant communication. And it may already be changing the way that the cardinals will do business. We've got details on that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Back here in Rome as our coverage continue, my next guest says if you are too ambitious, you will not get the job as pope. We'll talk about that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING, everybody. We're coming to you this morning from both New York City and Rome, Italy. Let's get back to Bill Hemmer in Rome.

Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad.

Learning more information, too, about these mourners. These lines are just -- are absolutely massive. It's very difficult for us to show our viewers at home through a television camera just how large and how many people now are waiting, not only in the streets of the Vatican, but all through the city of Rome now, as that line snakes away.

The latest word we have is a report that the line will be cut off later tonight, maybe six hours from now, which would put it right around 9:00 or 10:00 in the evening. Meaning that if you're not in line at that point, there will be no other opportunity to get in line and pay final respects for Pope John Paul II.

That makes a little bit of sense, because tonight will mark the 24-hour mark away from when the heads of state, like President Bush, are set to view Pope John Paul II's body. And also, we've heard through the Vatican they want to close the church Thursday evening so they can prepare St. Peter's Basilica for the funeral that will take place on Friday. And again, just a massive outpouring here.

The other bit of news -- and this is significant, too -- the conclave will begin in 12 days. That's on Monday, April 18th. The cardinals will convene inside the Sistine Chapel. They will take one vote that day in the afternoon.

Let's talk about that now with Father Thomas Reese, editor of "American Magazine," my guest here now in Italy.

Nice to see you.

REV. THOMAS REESE, EDITOR, "AMERICAN MAGAZINE": Nice to see you, Bill.

HEMMER: And good afternoon. You say if you're overly ambitious you can forget about getting this job. What do you mean by that?

REESE: Well, this is an election like no election we've ever seen in the United States. There's no, you know, campaign, bumper stickers -- no buttons, no TV ads. The -- you know, they're looking for someone who is going to head the church. And, you know, this should not be someone who's ambitious or arrogant and thinks he's so great he should be pope. Usually it's somebody you're dragging and kicking into taking the job.

HEMMER: You know, you also talk about the possibility -- as a cardinal, you don't walk around, say, hey, vote for me, but there is a little bit of that going around. Who does that, if it's taking place?

REESE: Your friends do, people who know you, who respect you, who think you'd make a great pope. They go around and tell the other cardinals what a wonderful person you are, and how -- and hand out speeches that you've given or books that you've written and say, see, this guy really is the one that we need to follow John Paul II.

HEMMER: If the Italians are ready to return the papacy to Italy, because it was here for the past 455 years before this pope from Poland emerged and won it back in 1978, how would you know if they're ready and willing to vote as a bloc, or would we even know that?

REESE: Well, we don't know that, and it doesn't appear they are yet ready to do that. You have to remember that, prior to the 20th century, the Italians took -- composed about 80 or 90 percent of the College of Cardinals, so they had a real hammerlock on it. Today, it's only 17 percent of the College of Cardinals, less, in fact, than was the case when John Paul II was elected. So they no longer have the control. If they were united, they certainly would have an impact, but there's a half a dozen people that they're talking about who are Italian cardinals that may be the next pope.

HEMMER: I read some comments one time, I think it was from you, talking about if you do not believe this is a political event, you're not quite sure what you understand.

REESE: Well, I'm a political scientist, so political's not a bad word for me. When two or more people gather together, you have a political society.

You know, by political, we mean, well, it's an election, you know. So how do you -- you got to tell people about the man you think ought to be pope. You go around and you say, hey, you try to persuade people. If that's -- it's not partisan. We don't have, you know, a left-wing party and right-wing party. I don't think we have that kind of thing in the church. But we do have, you know, 117 men who have to figure out who's going to be the next pope, and they'll do it through debate and conversation, and we call that politics.

HEMMER: One final question here. We know the cardinals are sworn to secrecy, and we may learn precious few details over the coming weeks, or months or maybe even years, for that matter. If you break that code of secrecy, is there a punishment for that?

REESE: Well, no is the honest answer.

HEMMER: You cannot get excommunicated, kicked out? REESE: Well, after the last conclave secrets got out. What would typically happen is that the cardinals who are in the conclave told the over 80 cardinals who were out of the conclave, and then they might tell -- or they might tell a bishop friend in confidence, and then, you know -- they say in Rome, a secret is something you tell only one person at a time.

HEMMER: Well, we'll watch that. Great to see you. Father Thomas Reese, thanks again.

We know the conclave is set Monday, April 18th, it will begin. And we also know that public details of the will will be made public anyway, tomorrow, on Thursday. That's it from Rome.

For now, back to New York and Carol Costello with the rest of the news back there.

Carol, good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill.

President Bush is en route to Rome this hour to pay his final respects to Pope John Paul II. The president departing from Andrews Air Force Base just a short time ago. He lead a small delegation, including the first lady, his father, former President Bush, and former President Bill Clinton. As you know, the pope's funeral is set for this Friday.

At least nine people now confirmed dead after a coalition helicopter go down in Afghanistan. The U.S. military says the chopper went down about 100 miles southwest of Kabul. Severe weather being blamed for the crash.

Iraq has its first democratically elected president. The 275- member National Assembly chose a Kurdish leader to head the country earlier today. The group also elected two vice presidents. The vote took place at a televised session reportedly made available to the ousted president, Saddam Hussein.

Officials in India and Pakistan say a historic bus ride across Kashmir would go ahead as scheduled, despite an attack on the passengers. Officials say rebels stormed a government building, holding passengers waiting for tomorrow's ride. Two buildings at the complex were gutted by fire and smoke. You're seeing it there. There is word at least two attackers were killed. Three people were hurt.

The famed Casino of Monte Carlo closing its doors today. Monaco is in mourning, following the news of the death of Prince Rainier. He died hours ago of lung, heart and kidney problems. Prince Albert, his son and heir, was at his side. The 81-year-old prince is expected to be buried alongside his late wife, Princess Grace. No word yet on when that will take place.

And ABC News anchor Peter Jennings is scheduled to begin chemotherapy on Monday. The 66-year-old Jennings announced Tuesday that he has lung cancer. How advanced the disease is unclear. At the end of last night's broadcast of "World News Tonight," Jennings addressed his viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: I will continue to do the broadcast on good days. My voice will not always be like this. Certainly, it's been a long time, and I hope it goes without saying that a journalist who doesn't value deeply the audience's loyalty should be in another line of work. To be perfectly honest, I'm a little surprised at the kindness today from so many people. That's not intended as false modesty, but even I was taken aback by how far and how fast news travels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You shouldn't be surprised, Peter. ABC's Charles Gibson and Elizabeth Vargas will be Jenning's primary substitutes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Back here in Rome, Italy now. This is the first time a conclave will ever convene in an age of communications, with the Internet and cell phones. And as we go through this process, beginning in 12 days from now, bear in mind that all of this is supposed to be held in secret inside the Sistine Chapel. There is some concern in Italy now that it may not be so secret after all, but that is certainly something we'll have to all wait and see as the conclave unfolds. That is one of the questions we put to the Vatican Media Office earlier today. Archbishop John Patrick Foley is in charge of that office here at the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Archbishop Foley, thank you for your time.

You are learning more about what we can see on this Friday during the funeral that you can now share with us. What are those details?

ARCHBISHOP JOHN FOLEY, VATICAN MEDIA OFFICE: Yes. In fact, this morning, I was spending part of my morning translating from the Latin, the book is used for the funeral of the Holy Father. And I think some things that will be very impressive, I think, and I imagine we'll be able to see these on television, before the coffin is brought out to St. Peter's Square, the pope's secretary and the master of ceremonies will put a white veil, a white, silk veil, over the face of the Holy Father, while reciting a prayer that says "Now he will be looking upon your face, Oh, Lord," a beautiful prayer. And then they will put the pope's body in a cypress wooden coffin, bring it out to the sagrada (ph), as it's called, of the basilica, right in front of the basilica.

And then Cardinal Ratzinger, the dean of the College of Cardinals, will be the principal celebrant, together with all of the cardinals, of the funeral mass of Pope John Paul. So all the cardinals will come celebrate that mass. He will also preach the homily at that mass.

HEMMER: Now some of this we already knew, but you're diving into all the details that were written out nine years ago.

FOLEY: Yes, and I just got them yesterday myself.

HEMMER: So you're learning as we're learning in many ways.

FOLEY: Absolutely, yes.

HEMMER: This is a pope that once said if it doesn't happen on TV, it doesn't happen.

FOLEY: He said that to Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore, and I was with Cardinal Keeler at the time. Cardinal Keeler wanted to have a TV camera from a local station take a presentation, take images of a presentation, that was being made to the Holy Father. And he said, Holy Father, may we do this for the station in Baltimore? And the Holy Father said, if it doesn't happen on television, it doesn't happen.

HEMMER: So he knew the power of communication, and he was quite aware of how the world was changing, too, with regard to that.

FOLEY: And the last major document that was released by the Holy Father, in February, was on communications, the first major document of the pope on communications and the last major document that he released.

HEMMER: You know, the last couple of days, when you had the private viewing on Sunday and on Monday, not so private when you broadcast it to the world over Vatican TV. Is that a sign of things to come for the funeral on Friday? And if so, what more will be different for the viewing audience at home?

FOLEY: Well, first of all, the pope founded the Vatican TV Center. That didn't exist before he was pope. That was founded in 1983. And, as you saw, the -- all of the ceremonies in the chapel upstairs, in the Clementine Hall, were shown, that wonderful and moving procession, which I participated on Monday afternoon, down the Royal staircase, out into the square, just as if the Holy Father was going there in his pope-mobile -- but this time, being carried in state. Up into the basilica for lying in state for these millions of pilgrims -- we have to call them -- mourners, but pilgrims, coming here to pray for the Holy Father and for the church.

HEMMER: One final question -- if he understood the power of television, was there anything that you're reading now that may be different or unexpected come Friday for that funeral?

FOLEY: I don't see anything that's unexpected for the funeral. And, in fact, one thing I think that you should know, the Holy Father, in this major document he wrote, said people live now in an environment of communications. They're profoundly affected by it, it even affects their relationships. So he said make sure you use the media for good, because it can bring people together. It can be a cause for peace and unity in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: Thank you very much. Pleasure talking to you. Archbishop Foley from earlier today.

The president now en route to Rome, Italy. The funeral takes place on Friday. But inside of St. Peter's Basilica, if you took all the great works in the Renaissance period, added them all up, what would the ultimate price tag be? You might be surprised by the answer. We'll have it for you after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Vatican City is in the heart of the Roman Catholic Church and the spiritual center to the world's one billion Catholic pilgrims. So what's it worth in dollars and cents? You might be surprised. Rudi Bakhtiar explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's less than half a square mile and yet it's a nation unto itself. The Vatican, rich in centuries of priceless art and architecture. The Sistine Chapel, it's domed ceiling painted by Michelangelo. St. Peter's Basilica with a tomb of Christ's apostle Peter below the papal altar. The Pieta, the Vatican Library, one of the world's richest repositories of ancient manuscripts. Put your arms around these priceless treasures and guess, what's the Vatican really worth?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: People have these notions that there are vast islands of wealth here. I mean, the truth is, the Vatican's a pretty lean and mean operation.

BAKHTIAR: Let's take a look at some of the numbers. The annual operating budget for the Vatican, $260 million. Property holdings of the Holy See, about $770 million. Add to that 18,000 pieces of art by the likes of Michelangelo, Raphael, Dante, Homer -- so what's the grand total? A whole lot less than you would expect. Yes, say the experts, the Vatican does have tremendous artistic wealth, but the Vatican insists the precious artwork and real estate it possesses are held in trust for humanity. What does that mean? St. Peter's Basilica is valued at slightly more than $1.

ALLEN: Interestingly, the Vatican lists all of that stuff on its book at one euro, in terms of value. And that's because, from their point of view, it can never be sold. It can never be borrowed against. Therefore, it produces no revenue for them.

BAKHTIAR: We tried contacting Christie's and Sotheby's to inquire, hypothetically, about the fair market value of some of the Vatican's treasures, but we didn't have much luck. Nor did CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen when he tried to attach a price tag to some of these assets.

ALLEN: I once interviewed an Italian contractor to ask him, if you were to build St. Peter's Basilica today, how much would it cost you to put together? And he started trying to do the research to answer my question and called me back and said, can't be done. Nobody would build this building. By today's standards the cost would be so astronomic that it is simply impossible to calculate.

BAKHTIAR: At various times the Vatican has reportedly faced calls that it sell off its treasures to finance its operations or help the poor. According to Allen, it's the Vatican's fundamental law these precious assets can never be sold.

Rudi Bakhtiar, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, here's a little hint, a little insight into what it might actually be worth. When the Sistine Chapel was cleaned more than a decade ago, the price tag there was over $4 million. Cleaning.

One national pastime is getting more expensive. With that and an early check of the markets, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Good morning. Four million dollars to clean the Sistine Chapel?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes. Well, maybe that's a bargain. I mean, it's all about the money.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Maybe it was really dirty.

SERWER: Yes. All those pigeons flying around, don't you know?

Let's check about the markets first of all this morning. Stocks trading up at this hour. We're about 28 points on the Dow. Lower oil prices are what's happening and that is a good thing for investors in the stock market.

First of all, before we get to baseball, Soledad, want to talk about Wal-Mart because a rare public victory for this giant company, which has had a number of PR black eyes over the past year or so. Yesterday in Bennington, Vermont, citizens there voted overwhelmingly to overturn a rule that would have capped the sizes of big box stores and prevented Wal-Mart from building a big store there or expanding a small store. In other words, Wal-Mart is now free to build a large 112,000 square foot store in Bennington. And this is in Vermont, of course, where the company has faced a tremendous amount of opposition. Interesting stuff, I think.

Let's talk about the national pastime, because guess what? Prices for tickets are going up. 6.3 percent on average. The average cost of a ticket at a Major League park is now $21.17. These are the most expensive cities to go see a game. Fenway Park, $44.46 -- 9.3 percent increase in prices. Two reasons, they won the World Series.

CAFFERTY: Yes, they're the champions.

SERWER: Number one.

CAFFERTY: And number two...

O'BRIEN: There's a long time between the winnings, so come on. SERWER: Yes, no but they had a long time before the -- number two, it's the smallest park in the majors, so they have to charge the most. I don't know if I would pay that much, though, Jack, to go to Fenway Park.

CAFFERTY: Well, because you're a New Yorker and a Yankees fan.

SERWER: Yes, I am. Yes, I am.

Now here are the cheapest places. Now, you'd have to probably pay me $13.70 to go see the D-Rays play. That's in a dome in Florida. Think about that. I was in Kansas City yesterday, and not a lot of interest in the Royals -- there were more AMERICAN MORNING fans I met in Kansas City than Royals fans. Seriously, people were like, when do the Chiefs start playing again? I said, the baseball season just started. There was not a lot of interest in the Royals.

CAFFERTY: That's because they haven't contended for a long time. Back in the days when they had George Brett and the old pine tar incident -- they used to have those great series against the Yankees back and forth. Days are long gone.

O'BRIEN: Yes, I was going to say, that was a long time ago, because I remember those baseball cards. Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: Yep. OK. You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: Final look at the "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: "Question of the Day." What should be done to close the wealth gap between blacks and whites in this country? National Urban League report out showing that the progress, economically, the blacks were making in the 1990s apparently has stalled. The difference in the unemployment rates between the races is widening. And so we thought we'd asked the question, what to do about it.

Steve in Florida writes, "To close the wealth gap, we must first close the education gap, slap a salary cap on ballplayers, start paying teachers a quarter of a million bucks a year, and see how fast teaching becomes competitive and schools become palaces." That's a hell of an idea.

J.R. in Louisiana writes, "This administration has done little to reach out to any community except upper-class, white Big Business cronies. Access to equal education, tax reform for minority business, and an atmosphere where minorities can aspire to greater things than sports and music would do wonders."

And this letter from Deanne (ph) in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She absolutely has her knickers in a knot. Isn't that where Harvard is, Cambridge?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.

CAFFERTY: You're included in this. "As an Ivy League-educated African-American Studies professor, I was profoundly offended by the insensitive comments made and the lack of historical awareness displayed by Jack and Soledad. Since economically disenfranchised people of color are never featured on your show, this bias is a clever, though not very subtle, way of preventing any thoughtful racial discourse."

O'BRIEN: Written like a Harvard professor. What the heck is she saying?

CAFFERTY: What the hell does that mean?

O'BRIEN: I have no idea.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: No, I think she wants to get on the show. She wants to get on the show.

O'BRIEN: Me, just because I'm sitting next to you.

CAFFERTY: Most days they're offended by me. Today they're also offended by you.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: As a woman of several races and colors and blah, blah, blah, blah...

CAFFERTY: People like Deanne there, that's the reason I quit college at first.

O'BRIEN: And you know what, I thought we had pretty good thoughtful racial discourse today, especially with Charles Barkley's new book, a fascinating look at race. As he said that's a big issue for him personally because his child is multiracial.

CAFFERTY: You know, you don't have to defend yourself against these people.

O'BRIEN: That's why I could never do this segment.

CAFFERTY: We'd be here to noon.

O'BRIEN: We'd never get to anything else.

CAFFERTY: Opinions are like noses, everybody has one.

O'BRIEN: I get all personally upset. I'm offended back at you, Deanne.

CAFFERTY: I don't recall you jumping to my defense when it's me they insult daily. You never say, hey, you're being unfair to Jack.

O'BRIEN: Usually I'm like, I hear you, sister.

CAFFERTY: Yes, right on, you go, girl.

O'BRIEN: Today she's attacking me. If it had just been you, I would have been like, you go girl. Today, it's us.

CAFFERTY: Have you noticed that? Put her name in the thing and we do another telethon here.

O'BRIEN: Suddenly, I'm incensed. Short break. We'll end it here.

SERWER: Nice to see the solidarity here with you two.

O'BRIEN: We're back in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Over 26 years, Pope John Paul II made countless appointments in his time as leader of the Catholic Church, but his very first appointment was choosing an Irish bishop to be his right- hand man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BISHOP JOHN MAGEE, SECRETARY TO POPE JOHN PAUL II: My heart is broken. I loved him.

HEMMER: Bishop John Mcgee is remembering a man he considered his father. For nine years, McGee was the personal assistant to the pope. Few have seen him so close.

MAGEE: And so I was in charge of arranging all of that, in every country.

HEMMER: In 64 countries, he was at the pontiff's side, planning nearly every stop. There is the line of 10 million in Mexico, the crowd of five million for a single mass in Manila.

MAGEE: And the way he did touch them, you know, he has no inhibitions whatsoever about giving a kiss or touch of the cheek. He was totally at home.

HEMMER: Bishop Magee found a man with a sense of humor and a love for sports, skiing and swimming among his favorites. But nothing prepared him for this week, and the sight of seeing his friend gone from this world.

MAGEE: I was very sad to see the state in which his face was, because I knew him in the years when he was in full health. It shows on his face. It's not Pope John Paul II that I knew.

HEMMER: He is left with memories and a ring on his finger, given to him by the Holy Father. And this week, as more memories come back, Bishop Magee thinks this crowd is exactly what the pope would like to see.

MAGEE: He's at peace with God. And this is -- this river of humanity that is now going towards the basilica to pay their respects to that most beautiful man. I think in the history of the world I don't think there is any human being that has captured the hearts of so many.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Bishop Magee and the river of humanity. Tomorrow here on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," live in Italy, we will show you a special presentation of the Swiss Guards in charge of keeping this place safe for 500 years. What do they do? You'll hear that story tomorrow, as our coverage continues in a moment, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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