Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
In Monaco, Europe's Reigning Monarch Has Died; Vatican Announces Starting Date for Conclave
Aired April 06, 2005 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The Vatican announcing just moments ago the starting date for the Conclave.
Meanwhile, the mourners. They number now in the millions.
In Monaco, Europe's reigning monarch has died, remembered for making a princess out of Grace.
On this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien reporting from New York this morning.
We continue our coverage of Pope John Paul II and the funeral arrangements with Bill Hemmer in Rome this morning -- hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Soledad, hello again from Rome.
Just about 2:00 in the afternoon now and the mourners are still coming here. And the news is tickling out of the Vatican just moments ago. Here is what we understand as day four of the mourning period continues here in Italy.
The College of Cardinals announcing minutes ago that the Conclave to select the next pope will begin on Monday, April 18. And there has been no word on any secret cardinal. In fact, the Vatican knocking that news down at a press conference in the past 30 minutes.
Also, the pope's will has been read by the cardinals, we understand, and the information contained in that will will be made public tomorrow. That's Thursday.
And meanwhile the mourners still come here, and now they number in the millions. The Vatican is now reporting in the first 20 hours of the public visiting time, more than a million people filed past the body of Pope John Paul II, moving at a rate, the Vatican says, between 15,000 and 18,000 mourners per hour. Staggering numbers. And, again, the lines continue to develop and grow again today. As for the delegation, President Bush en route now here to Rome, arriving later tonight. He's among 200 heads of state who will attend the funeral on Friday for Pope John Paul II.
Meanwhile, as the cardinals continue to meet -- they met again today, the fourth time now in three days -- the archbishop of Chicago is with me now here at the Vatican.
Cardinal Francis George my guest here in Italy.
Nice to see you and good afternoon.
CARDINAL FRANCIS GEORGE, ARCHBISHOP OF CHICAGO: Nice to see you, too.
Good afternoon.
HEMMER: A few things, let's go ahead and take care of the news from the Vatican we just got announced here.
GEORGE: Sure.
HEMMER: The Conclave begins on the 18th, Monday.
GEORGE: That's right.
HEMMER: That's about right on schedule for what we had anticipated.
Is there any surprise in here?
GEORGE: It has to be from 15 to 20 days after his death, so I think that's the 16th or 17th day.
HEMMER: Was there much discussion about putting it at a later time or who comes up with the decision...
GEORGE: No, that's the decision...
HEMMER: ... to...
GEORGE: Well, the College of Cardinals makes those decisions.
HEMMER: Yes, but, I understand you have that five day period and I'm just curious to know if there was any discussion on that.
GEORGE: Well, that's the result.
HEMMER: OK. All right.
What about the will? Have you seen it and read it?
GEORGE: What was said there is true, that the will has been read to the cardinals. And they'll publish it, you know, in several translations, because it was written in Polish.
HEMMER: Yes.
GEORGE: So they still have got to check translations to be sure it's...
HEMMER: I know there's -- you're sworn to a lot of secrecy and I...
GEORGE: Well, they're confidential meetings.
HEMMER: And I want to respect that, too.
GEORGE: Thank you.
HEMMER: But was there anything in that will that you think might surprise the world when they learn of it tomorrow?
GEORGE: You just said we're in confidential meetings and now you're asking me what we said. Read it tomorrow. You'll see.
HEMMER: Yes. No, I wasn't asking you for specifics on this, I was just curious to know from your own personal experience...
GEORGE: No, it's a very, very moving spiritual testament of a man who lived with the lord. And it's a spiritual testament.
HEMMER: What are you to make of the mourners?
GEORGE: It's very humbling and yet very gratifying. Here is a man who falls out of the usual categories of explanation, economic, sociological, political, cultural, national. He was a pastor, the universal pastor and this is his flock. And they're coming to pay him respects. It's a very respectful crowd. You know, with this number of people, you'd expect all kinds of things. It's very orderly and yet very human. I mean they're keeping order but they're also respecting people, as he always did.
So it's very, very touching and I'm deeply moved.
HEMMER: I know we're not going to get into specifics about who could lead this Catholic Church next, but why hasn't an American, do you believe, that no American pope has ever held that title?
GEORGE: In the past, you mean? Why historically? Well, historically, the Catholic Church, while very large in some ways, was nevertheless not enormous when you look at the whole Catholic world. And generally popes have come from Catholic countries. Specifically, they've come from Italy, for the most part. He is, after all, the bishop of Rome. So he has to speak Italian. He has to know how to speak to his flock. He has to be acceptable to them, because that's his, that's what gives him the title of pope, successor of Peter, as bishop of Rome.
But that's a universal role because he's also head of all the other bishops, for the same reason Peter was. So you have to keep always the local and universal in mind. And the Italians have done that very well and John Paul II from Poland did it spectacularly well. So it's possible that now, I think, people think more globally. The College of Cardinals is more international now.
HEMMER: There's a cardinal from France, Philippe Barbarin. He said he's looking for a person with a heart as big as the world, he says, a real saint, someone in whom you can see the light of Christ.
GEORGE: That's what we had and that's...
HEMMER: Does that fit your description?
GEORGE: That's what we had and I hope that's what we'll have again.
HEMMER: Well, good luck to you.
GEORGE: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: And thanks for sharing your time with us today.
GEORGE: Appreciate you're having us here.
HEMMER: And thank you very much.
GEORGE: Thank you.
OK.
HEMMER: Nice to see you here.
GEORGE: Nice to meet you.
HEMMER: We talk about the mourners, and we'll continue to keep a focus and a very close eye on the mourners down on the streets of Rome -- Carol, it is absolutely staggering to see the number of people and how this line has grown day to day as it snakes its way deep into the streets of Rome. We'll show you that a bit later this morning as we continue here live.
Back to you now to New York there -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It makes you wonder what Friday is going to be like, the day of the pope's funeral.
HEMMER: Oh, well, one can only imagine that.
COSTELLO: I know.
Thank you, Bill.
Now in the news, condolences also pouring in from around the world this morning for Monaco's Prince Rainier. French President Jacques Chirac credits the prince with modernizing the once sleepy Monaco and hails his courage and tenacity in the face of failing health. Prince Rainier died with lung, heart and kidney failure earlier today. He was 81 years old.
The newly elected Iraqi president is calling for national independence and unity. Jalal Talabani was chosen by Iraq's new transitional assembly just about five hours ago. The position is largely symbolic, and so was the vote. Talabani is a Kurd, the minority group largely persecuted under Saddam Hussein.
A sentencing hearing today for white supremacist Matthew Hale. He was convicted last year of soliciting the murder of U.S. District Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow, whose husband and mother were slain late February in an apparently unrelated crime. Hale's sentencing is set to get underway less than three hours from now.
ABC News Anchor Peter Jennings preparing to undergo chemotherapy. The 66-year-old World News Tonight veteran announced that he's been diagnosed with lung cancer. He has also admitted to being a long time smoker. Jennings will remain on the show, health permitting. For a medical perspective on his condition, we're joined by CNN's Elizabeth Cohen later this hour.
And more accusations against Michael Jackson. A former maid testified Tuesday she saw Jackson in the shower with a young boy. The woman also said she saw Jackson and the boy sleeping in the same bed, but admitted she never saw the pop star touch a child inappropriately. The former maid's son is one of the boys accusing Jackson of molestation. Court proceedings pick up again tomorrow. And, of course, we'll be following those -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Yes, no question about that.
Some days that case just gets, you know...
COSTELLO: Hard to listen to.
O'BRIEN: Hard -- both fascinating and hard to listen to. You're exactly right.
Carol, thanks.
We're going to take you back out to Rome in just a little bit.
But up next, a candid conversation with Sir Charles Barkley. The former NBA star tackles an issue that he calls the biggest cancer of his lifetime.
First, though, here's a question for you -- what's Charles Barkley's nickname? Is it, A, the bald beauty? It is, B, the round mound of rebound? Oh, lord. Or is it, C, the mouth from the South? We've got the answer right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Before the break, we asked you what is Charles Barkley's nickname. The answer is, B, the round mound of rebound. It's a name that dates back to his days at Auburn University.
Well, outstanding on the court, outspoken off the court, that's basketball's great Charles Barkley.
The title of an earlier book was "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt It." It's pure Barkley.
His new one, though, tackles race relations and it's called "Who's Afraid Of A Large Black Man?"
Sir Charles Barkley joins us this morning.
Nice to see you.
CHARLES BARKLEY, "WHO'S AFRAID OF A LARGE BLACK MAN?": Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
O'BRIEN: You've got -- you're wealthy, you're famous. You've had more opportunity than 99.99 percent of people on the planet.
What makes you the authority now to write about race?
BARKLEY: Well, number one, I've had great opportunity, but it's not just about me. I wanted to write -- and I don't think I'm an authority. I just wanted to write a positive book on race. I've always considered growing up in Alabama the greatest counselor of my lifetime. And I was fortunate that I got some great people because, number one, the book, I'm hoping a lot of black kids, a lot of poor white kids and a lot of Hispanic kids read this book. Because everybody talks about education, pride and self-esteem, and I think sooner or later we've got to draw a line in the sand that says we as black people -- and I say we, because I'm black, obviously -- we've got to stop killing each other. We've got to stop having kids we cannot afford.
And I interviewed, you know, all the actors, because I think television has done a really poor job of showing how black people we really are.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about some of the people in the book -- Barack Obama, Samuel Jackson, President Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Peter Guber, Ice Cube, George Lopez. I mean it's called "Who's Afraid Of A Large Black Man?" but you're really talking about race overall, not just black and white.
BARKLEY: No, definitely not black and white. But I want people to know the book is positive. And what I tried to do, I got George Lopez to talk about the Hispanic perspective growing up in America, because I think a lot of times white people that's not enough. They don't even think racism exists. They think that black people are myself, Michael Jordan, Sam Jackson, Morgan and Ice Cube. But realistically, I try to look at the big picture.
And I think number one, right now, America is more divided by economics. It's always been divided by race. But now it's really divided by economics.
O'BRIEN: You call it the biggest cancer of your lifetime.
So how do you then fix it, change it? BARKLEY: Well, I don't think you can kill it totally. I think all you can do -- I think we never discuss race. Everybody knows this exists. I mean everybody -- and it happens every day. If you're watching television or reading the newspaper, every day there is some racial incident that happens.
O'BRIEN: But no one talks about it.
BARKLEY: But nobody talks about it.
O'BRIEN: So your goal is, then, to just sort of foster a debate about it?
BARKLEY: I would like to foster a debate, but let people -- I just think anybody who is racist, I just think they're just stupid and ignorant. That's the premise of the book. And we've all got to get along. I think Peter Gruber talks about, you know, we're really just one tribe. Everybody in life wants the same things. And I think television, like I say, does a really bad disservice to black people and in general, or Hispanics. And I'm hoping just to create a debate.
But the premise of the book is man, it's just ignorant and stupid to be racist.
O'BRIEN: Your daughter is biracial.
BARKLEY: Yes. And what I tell her is I wish everybody was raised neutral, but they're not.
O'BRIEN: Not realistic.
BARKLEY: It's very unrealistic. And I want her to know she is black. But being black, Jesse Jackson talks about it in the book. He says listen, he feels like a lot of blacks, we, as blacks, have dropped the ball. This is the greatest time to be a black person in this country. And I totally agree 110 percent with what Bill Cosby said, we have dropped the ball. We're killing each other at an enormous rate. We're having kids that we cannot afford. And sooner or later, we can't continue to be victims.
Our ancestors were victims. But I'm not a -- like you say, I've had the greatest opportunities in the world. So I'm not a victim. And I'm hoping to inspire some other young people to like we're not victims. We can do better.
O'BRIEN: It's a terrific book. I've been highlighting it and underlining it all morning. It's fantastic.
BARKLEY: I'm very proud of it. And I want to thank everybody who took time out of their hectic schedule to talk to me.
O'BRIEN: Oh, good.
Well, you should be proud of it.
I want to ask you a question before we run out of time about steroids.
BARKLEY: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Did you watch any of the testimony before Congress, the baseball players who had come by to testify about steroids?
BARKLEY: Sure. Sure.
O'BRIEN: What did you think?
BARKLEY: My thing on drugs, it should be like this. The first time you do -- cocaine, the same thing in all sports. The first time you do it, you should be suspended for a month. The second time, you should be suspended for the entire year. The third time, you should be banned for life.
I can't believe it's such a big deal. I think we as players, we have to police the game. But to me it's a simple where there's steroids or cocaine or whatever, three strikes and you're out for life. And I don't mean like in the NBA, if they suspend you for life, it's like you're out for two years and you can come back.
O'BRIEN: No, you mean gone.
BARKLEY: Yes, I mean gone forever. You see, everybody -- some people are going to make mistakes. But one time, a month. The next time, a year. And the third time banned totally for life.
O'BRIEN: A lot stronger than what they're looking at in the...
BARKLEY: Yes, but that's just true because they know that they are making a mistake. I think we sometimes, as players, we have to do what's best for the game. They know they should not be doing steroids. But, also, they should be proven guilty, not just -- now they've got to prove their innocent. It's kind of worked the other way around.
O'BRIEN: Kind of a good platform if you're going to run for governor of Alabama one day.
BARKLEY: We've got a lot more problems in Alabama than drugs, trust me.
O'BRIEN: Are you planning to run for governor?
BARKLEY: I hope so.
O'BRIEN: Really?
BARKLEY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: When about?
BARKLEY: Well, not until 2000 and, I think, 14.
O'BRIEN: Think you can win? BARKLEY: I don't know if I can win, but if I can get on TV every day and try to talk to these kids out there and make their lives better -- the job don't pay that well, you know?
O'BRIEN: But, you know what? I don't think that's going to be such a big problem for you.
BARKLEY: Well, I've got this Vegas thing working so I need...
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true.
BARKLEY: I need cash.
O'BRIEN: I hear you.
Charles Barkley, nice to have you.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
BARKLEY: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: The book is terrific. It's called "Who's Afraid of A Large Black Man?"
Charles Barkley.
In just a moment, we're going to take you back to Rome.
AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back to Rome.
President Bush now en route to Rome, Italy to attend the funeral on Friday for Pope John Paul II. He will be here among 200 heads of state and religious leaders from around the world.
One of those religious leaders was invited, but due to health he cannot attend. That's the Reverend Billy Graham. In his place, though, will be his daughter, Anne Graham Lotz.
And she's my guest now here at the Vatican.
Welcome to Italy.
ANNE GRAHAM LOTZ, DAUGHTER OF BILLY GRAHAM: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: And good to see you.
LOTZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: How is your dad doing, by the way?
LOTZ: He's doing great.
HEMMER: Yes?
LOTZ: And he's just strong, healthy, sharp, handsome as ever. He just has a hard time walking, a hard time hearing. Other than that, he's fine.
HEMMER: He is suffering from Parkinson's.
LOTZ: Yes.
HEMMER: And we know the pope suffered, as well.
LOTZ: Yes, yes.
HEMMER: Did he see a similar struggle when he watched videotape of the pope or saw him on television?
LOTZ: You know, I don't think my father has those symptoms that the pope did. If you look at my father, you don't see the trembling and all that.
What I think is special is that neither one of them allowed that to hinder what they thought god called them to do.
HEMMER: Wow!
LOTZ: You know, so the pope just pressed through and my father is doing the same thing.
HEMMER: Yes, apparently I guess on Saturday night, over the weekend, he told Larry King, your father did, I don't have the physical strength to go, and I've been invited. They wanted a woman to come representing me.
Did that surprise you, when they asked for a woman?
LOTZ: Well, it surprised me that I was asked to come. And I didn't get that word until late. And I feel honored that my father would ask me to come represent him. So I'm just glad to be here.
HEMMER: Yes, tell me what this man, I guess, perhaps, meant to you on a personal level when he reflected that upon the men and women around the world where he traveled?
LOTZ: The pope, you're speaking of the pope? I think the thing that strikes me is that he is a man who had courage of his convictions and his convictions were rooted in his understanding of the bible. And he didn't back off because of political correctness or the opinions of other people. And he loved people. You know, he took his message outside the walls of the Vatican to the world.
And if the message is as important as I believe it is, the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and we might present that a little differently than the pope would, but it's a message to take to the world. And he did that. HEMMER: There has been some criticism, too, throughout the week, too, about women in the church and, you know, this was a pope who had a traditional stance. He felt men should be the only ones who carry the collar, that should be priests.
Have you reflected on that and the increasing role that women could take on in a future Catholic Church?
LOTZ: Well, you know, I'm not Catholic.
HEMMER: I understand.
LOTZ: So I feel like that's sort of an in-house debate.
I am Baptist and there's a similar debate in the Baptist Church. For me, I'm not ordained. I haven't been whatever. But it hasn't hindered me from telling people about Jesus. And so I feel that god opens the doors for me. And so I just go where he sends me and give the word from his word that he puts on my heart. And so I feel like that's just a non-issue for me, although I do believe being a woman in ministry, if I can set a standard and maybe be a role model of encouragement for other women, then I appreciate that opportunity. But I'm not trying to put myself in anybody's pulpit, you know?
HEMMER: Well, you are going to see some kind of ceremony on Friday. When you think about the world leaders that will gather here in the mourners down there on the street below, it'll be a special time.
Good to see you here.
LOTZ: Thank you.
And you know what I'm going to think about is that we're all going to die, Bill. You know, everybody is going to come to this point in time when we step into eternity. The important thing is that we know where we're going to be on the other side and I know I'm going to heaven because I've put my faith in Jesus.
HEMMER: Anne Graham Lotz, thanks for making time with us today.
LOTZ: God bless you.
HEMMER: All right.
We'll see you a bit later.
LOTZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: Back to Soledad now with more in New York.
O'BRIEN: All right, Bill, thanks.
Well, you heard Charles Barkley saying he wants to run for governor. The wealth gap between blacks and whites sure to be a platform issue for him one day then, if that happens. CAFFERTY: He could buy Alabama, Barkley.
O'BRIEN: Yes. He said it doesn't pay so well, the job.
CAFFERTY: Yes, no. Well, he'll make it. He'll struggle through. I talked to him for a minute out in the hall. He's a good guy. I like Charles.
African-Americans falling farther behind -- this isn't good news -- when it comes to their economic status. A National Urban League report, the annual one, comes out today. It says African-Americans have achieved only 57 percent of the economic status of whites. The unemployment gap widened last year, 10.8 percent for blacks, 4.7 percent for whites, better than two to one.
The financial progress made by blacks in the 1990s appears to be stalling.
The question this morning is what should be done to close the wealth gap between blacks and whites in this country.
Reg in Ontario weighs in with this. This is a good effort on your part there, Reg: "You'll never eliminate the wealth difference between blacks and whites as long as you allow white bigots on one side and the NAACP on the other to continue to point out the color differences. Only when you eliminate all reference to color from both sides will the gap close."
Jerry in Georgia writes: "The educational system in the United States is deplorable in its inability to provide equal quality to poor communities. It's time to federalize the system because local school boards are political and a failure. Politics and education don't mix well."
Rick in Georgia writes: "First and foremost, we ought to stop asking questions like this one."
Hey, Rick, I've got to do something here for three hours to earn my paycheck. "Stop being an enabler to weak minds and start giving -- being an enabler to those with guts, gumption and drive to succeed against the odds. That is truly American, regardless of color."
And finally, John in Ohio writes: "It's not a black and white issue. How do you close the gap between the elite and the rest of society when 95 percent of legislation that pertains to the economy favors the wealthy?"
O'BRIEN: Some interesting feedback this morning, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it's a good question.
O'BRIEN: It's a good question to chew on.
CAFFERTY: It's a troubling report, but it's a good question.
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true. All right, Jack, thanks.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Well, the intense rivalry between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees resumed this week. And baseball fan David Letterman has been watching.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN, COURTESY CBS/WORLDWIDE PANTS)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: I love the Yankees-Red Sox series. Unbelievable, isn't it? I mean the roar of the crowd, the crack of the bat, the smell of the tear gas. What a!
It was chilly at Yankee Stadium for opening day. It was so cold, Jose Canseco was injecting players with hot cocoa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: That was actually kind of funny.
Much more AMERICAN MORNING ahead this morning.
We're going to take you back live to Rome in just a moment, what they've been calling that river of humanity continues to flow steadily through the Vatican. More than a million people now have passed through so far. We're going to tell you how those pilgrims are holding up.
We're back in just a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: I'm Bill Hemmer live in Rome again.
The Conclave date has been set. The cardinals will convene in 12 days to begin choosing the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
More details in a moment as our coverage continues live in Italy, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien in New York.
But you're looking at pictures from Rome, Italy this morning, which is where Bill Hemmer is -- Bill, these crowds really, over the last couple of days, we were saying they were impressive. But, of course, as that number grows, we are even more moved by those who have come out to really spend their last moments with Pope John Paul II.
HEMMER: Yes, they are extraordinary, Soledad.
We thought they were long yesterday. We thought they were long Monday night. But again today, I mean they are twice as long as they were when we left them about late in the evening yesterday. And there is a situation developing here, Soledad. The church is expecting to close on Thursday night, which is about another day and a half. They want to close then so they can get ready for the funeral on Friday.
If that's the case, and if these lines continue, there will be tens of thousands of people that will not get the opportunity to pay their final respects. And they are extraordinary.
We'll take you down and talk with some of them in a moment here. Diana Muriel is working the cobblestone pavement of Vatican Square in a moment.
Also, we want to talk to Delia Gallagher right now, our Vatican analyst, because it was last hour when we found that the Conclave would be set for April 18. That's about 12 days from now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 6, 2005 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The Vatican announcing just moments ago the starting date for the Conclave.
Meanwhile, the mourners. They number now in the millions.
In Monaco, Europe's reigning monarch has died, remembered for making a princess out of Grace.
On this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer in Rome and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien reporting from New York this morning.
We continue our coverage of Pope John Paul II and the funeral arrangements with Bill Hemmer in Rome this morning -- hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Soledad, hello again from Rome.
Just about 2:00 in the afternoon now and the mourners are still coming here. And the news is tickling out of the Vatican just moments ago. Here is what we understand as day four of the mourning period continues here in Italy.
The College of Cardinals announcing minutes ago that the Conclave to select the next pope will begin on Monday, April 18. And there has been no word on any secret cardinal. In fact, the Vatican knocking that news down at a press conference in the past 30 minutes.
Also, the pope's will has been read by the cardinals, we understand, and the information contained in that will will be made public tomorrow. That's Thursday.
And meanwhile the mourners still come here, and now they number in the millions. The Vatican is now reporting in the first 20 hours of the public visiting time, more than a million people filed past the body of Pope John Paul II, moving at a rate, the Vatican says, between 15,000 and 18,000 mourners per hour. Staggering numbers. And, again, the lines continue to develop and grow again today. As for the delegation, President Bush en route now here to Rome, arriving later tonight. He's among 200 heads of state who will attend the funeral on Friday for Pope John Paul II.
Meanwhile, as the cardinals continue to meet -- they met again today, the fourth time now in three days -- the archbishop of Chicago is with me now here at the Vatican.
Cardinal Francis George my guest here in Italy.
Nice to see you and good afternoon.
CARDINAL FRANCIS GEORGE, ARCHBISHOP OF CHICAGO: Nice to see you, too.
Good afternoon.
HEMMER: A few things, let's go ahead and take care of the news from the Vatican we just got announced here.
GEORGE: Sure.
HEMMER: The Conclave begins on the 18th, Monday.
GEORGE: That's right.
HEMMER: That's about right on schedule for what we had anticipated.
Is there any surprise in here?
GEORGE: It has to be from 15 to 20 days after his death, so I think that's the 16th or 17th day.
HEMMER: Was there much discussion about putting it at a later time or who comes up with the decision...
GEORGE: No, that's the decision...
HEMMER: ... to...
GEORGE: Well, the College of Cardinals makes those decisions.
HEMMER: Yes, but, I understand you have that five day period and I'm just curious to know if there was any discussion on that.
GEORGE: Well, that's the result.
HEMMER: OK. All right.
What about the will? Have you seen it and read it?
GEORGE: What was said there is true, that the will has been read to the cardinals. And they'll publish it, you know, in several translations, because it was written in Polish.
HEMMER: Yes.
GEORGE: So they still have got to check translations to be sure it's...
HEMMER: I know there's -- you're sworn to a lot of secrecy and I...
GEORGE: Well, they're confidential meetings.
HEMMER: And I want to respect that, too.
GEORGE: Thank you.
HEMMER: But was there anything in that will that you think might surprise the world when they learn of it tomorrow?
GEORGE: You just said we're in confidential meetings and now you're asking me what we said. Read it tomorrow. You'll see.
HEMMER: Yes. No, I wasn't asking you for specifics on this, I was just curious to know from your own personal experience...
GEORGE: No, it's a very, very moving spiritual testament of a man who lived with the lord. And it's a spiritual testament.
HEMMER: What are you to make of the mourners?
GEORGE: It's very humbling and yet very gratifying. Here is a man who falls out of the usual categories of explanation, economic, sociological, political, cultural, national. He was a pastor, the universal pastor and this is his flock. And they're coming to pay him respects. It's a very respectful crowd. You know, with this number of people, you'd expect all kinds of things. It's very orderly and yet very human. I mean they're keeping order but they're also respecting people, as he always did.
So it's very, very touching and I'm deeply moved.
HEMMER: I know we're not going to get into specifics about who could lead this Catholic Church next, but why hasn't an American, do you believe, that no American pope has ever held that title?
GEORGE: In the past, you mean? Why historically? Well, historically, the Catholic Church, while very large in some ways, was nevertheless not enormous when you look at the whole Catholic world. And generally popes have come from Catholic countries. Specifically, they've come from Italy, for the most part. He is, after all, the bishop of Rome. So he has to speak Italian. He has to know how to speak to his flock. He has to be acceptable to them, because that's his, that's what gives him the title of pope, successor of Peter, as bishop of Rome.
But that's a universal role because he's also head of all the other bishops, for the same reason Peter was. So you have to keep always the local and universal in mind. And the Italians have done that very well and John Paul II from Poland did it spectacularly well. So it's possible that now, I think, people think more globally. The College of Cardinals is more international now.
HEMMER: There's a cardinal from France, Philippe Barbarin. He said he's looking for a person with a heart as big as the world, he says, a real saint, someone in whom you can see the light of Christ.
GEORGE: That's what we had and that's...
HEMMER: Does that fit your description?
GEORGE: That's what we had and I hope that's what we'll have again.
HEMMER: Well, good luck to you.
GEORGE: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: And thanks for sharing your time with us today.
GEORGE: Appreciate you're having us here.
HEMMER: And thank you very much.
GEORGE: Thank you.
OK.
HEMMER: Nice to see you here.
GEORGE: Nice to meet you.
HEMMER: We talk about the mourners, and we'll continue to keep a focus and a very close eye on the mourners down on the streets of Rome -- Carol, it is absolutely staggering to see the number of people and how this line has grown day to day as it snakes its way deep into the streets of Rome. We'll show you that a bit later this morning as we continue here live.
Back to you now to New York there -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It makes you wonder what Friday is going to be like, the day of the pope's funeral.
HEMMER: Oh, well, one can only imagine that.
COSTELLO: I know.
Thank you, Bill.
Now in the news, condolences also pouring in from around the world this morning for Monaco's Prince Rainier. French President Jacques Chirac credits the prince with modernizing the once sleepy Monaco and hails his courage and tenacity in the face of failing health. Prince Rainier died with lung, heart and kidney failure earlier today. He was 81 years old.
The newly elected Iraqi president is calling for national independence and unity. Jalal Talabani was chosen by Iraq's new transitional assembly just about five hours ago. The position is largely symbolic, and so was the vote. Talabani is a Kurd, the minority group largely persecuted under Saddam Hussein.
A sentencing hearing today for white supremacist Matthew Hale. He was convicted last year of soliciting the murder of U.S. District Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow, whose husband and mother were slain late February in an apparently unrelated crime. Hale's sentencing is set to get underway less than three hours from now.
ABC News Anchor Peter Jennings preparing to undergo chemotherapy. The 66-year-old World News Tonight veteran announced that he's been diagnosed with lung cancer. He has also admitted to being a long time smoker. Jennings will remain on the show, health permitting. For a medical perspective on his condition, we're joined by CNN's Elizabeth Cohen later this hour.
And more accusations against Michael Jackson. A former maid testified Tuesday she saw Jackson in the shower with a young boy. The woman also said she saw Jackson and the boy sleeping in the same bed, but admitted she never saw the pop star touch a child inappropriately. The former maid's son is one of the boys accusing Jackson of molestation. Court proceedings pick up again tomorrow. And, of course, we'll be following those -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Yes, no question about that.
Some days that case just gets, you know...
COSTELLO: Hard to listen to.
O'BRIEN: Hard -- both fascinating and hard to listen to. You're exactly right.
Carol, thanks.
We're going to take you back out to Rome in just a little bit.
But up next, a candid conversation with Sir Charles Barkley. The former NBA star tackles an issue that he calls the biggest cancer of his lifetime.
First, though, here's a question for you -- what's Charles Barkley's nickname? Is it, A, the bald beauty? It is, B, the round mound of rebound? Oh, lord. Or is it, C, the mouth from the South? We've got the answer right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Before the break, we asked you what is Charles Barkley's nickname. The answer is, B, the round mound of rebound. It's a name that dates back to his days at Auburn University.
Well, outstanding on the court, outspoken off the court, that's basketball's great Charles Barkley.
The title of an earlier book was "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt It." It's pure Barkley.
His new one, though, tackles race relations and it's called "Who's Afraid Of A Large Black Man?"
Sir Charles Barkley joins us this morning.
Nice to see you.
CHARLES BARKLEY, "WHO'S AFRAID OF A LARGE BLACK MAN?": Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
O'BRIEN: You've got -- you're wealthy, you're famous. You've had more opportunity than 99.99 percent of people on the planet.
What makes you the authority now to write about race?
BARKLEY: Well, number one, I've had great opportunity, but it's not just about me. I wanted to write -- and I don't think I'm an authority. I just wanted to write a positive book on race. I've always considered growing up in Alabama the greatest counselor of my lifetime. And I was fortunate that I got some great people because, number one, the book, I'm hoping a lot of black kids, a lot of poor white kids and a lot of Hispanic kids read this book. Because everybody talks about education, pride and self-esteem, and I think sooner or later we've got to draw a line in the sand that says we as black people -- and I say we, because I'm black, obviously -- we've got to stop killing each other. We've got to stop having kids we cannot afford.
And I interviewed, you know, all the actors, because I think television has done a really poor job of showing how black people we really are.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about some of the people in the book -- Barack Obama, Samuel Jackson, President Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Peter Guber, Ice Cube, George Lopez. I mean it's called "Who's Afraid Of A Large Black Man?" but you're really talking about race overall, not just black and white.
BARKLEY: No, definitely not black and white. But I want people to know the book is positive. And what I tried to do, I got George Lopez to talk about the Hispanic perspective growing up in America, because I think a lot of times white people that's not enough. They don't even think racism exists. They think that black people are myself, Michael Jordan, Sam Jackson, Morgan and Ice Cube. But realistically, I try to look at the big picture.
And I think number one, right now, America is more divided by economics. It's always been divided by race. But now it's really divided by economics.
O'BRIEN: You call it the biggest cancer of your lifetime.
So how do you then fix it, change it? BARKLEY: Well, I don't think you can kill it totally. I think all you can do -- I think we never discuss race. Everybody knows this exists. I mean everybody -- and it happens every day. If you're watching television or reading the newspaper, every day there is some racial incident that happens.
O'BRIEN: But no one talks about it.
BARKLEY: But nobody talks about it.
O'BRIEN: So your goal is, then, to just sort of foster a debate about it?
BARKLEY: I would like to foster a debate, but let people -- I just think anybody who is racist, I just think they're just stupid and ignorant. That's the premise of the book. And we've all got to get along. I think Peter Gruber talks about, you know, we're really just one tribe. Everybody in life wants the same things. And I think television, like I say, does a really bad disservice to black people and in general, or Hispanics. And I'm hoping just to create a debate.
But the premise of the book is man, it's just ignorant and stupid to be racist.
O'BRIEN: Your daughter is biracial.
BARKLEY: Yes. And what I tell her is I wish everybody was raised neutral, but they're not.
O'BRIEN: Not realistic.
BARKLEY: It's very unrealistic. And I want her to know she is black. But being black, Jesse Jackson talks about it in the book. He says listen, he feels like a lot of blacks, we, as blacks, have dropped the ball. This is the greatest time to be a black person in this country. And I totally agree 110 percent with what Bill Cosby said, we have dropped the ball. We're killing each other at an enormous rate. We're having kids that we cannot afford. And sooner or later, we can't continue to be victims.
Our ancestors were victims. But I'm not a -- like you say, I've had the greatest opportunities in the world. So I'm not a victim. And I'm hoping to inspire some other young people to like we're not victims. We can do better.
O'BRIEN: It's a terrific book. I've been highlighting it and underlining it all morning. It's fantastic.
BARKLEY: I'm very proud of it. And I want to thank everybody who took time out of their hectic schedule to talk to me.
O'BRIEN: Oh, good.
Well, you should be proud of it.
I want to ask you a question before we run out of time about steroids.
BARKLEY: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Did you watch any of the testimony before Congress, the baseball players who had come by to testify about steroids?
BARKLEY: Sure. Sure.
O'BRIEN: What did you think?
BARKLEY: My thing on drugs, it should be like this. The first time you do -- cocaine, the same thing in all sports. The first time you do it, you should be suspended for a month. The second time, you should be suspended for the entire year. The third time, you should be banned for life.
I can't believe it's such a big deal. I think we as players, we have to police the game. But to me it's a simple where there's steroids or cocaine or whatever, three strikes and you're out for life. And I don't mean like in the NBA, if they suspend you for life, it's like you're out for two years and you can come back.
O'BRIEN: No, you mean gone.
BARKLEY: Yes, I mean gone forever. You see, everybody -- some people are going to make mistakes. But one time, a month. The next time, a year. And the third time banned totally for life.
O'BRIEN: A lot stronger than what they're looking at in the...
BARKLEY: Yes, but that's just true because they know that they are making a mistake. I think we sometimes, as players, we have to do what's best for the game. They know they should not be doing steroids. But, also, they should be proven guilty, not just -- now they've got to prove their innocent. It's kind of worked the other way around.
O'BRIEN: Kind of a good platform if you're going to run for governor of Alabama one day.
BARKLEY: We've got a lot more problems in Alabama than drugs, trust me.
O'BRIEN: Are you planning to run for governor?
BARKLEY: I hope so.
O'BRIEN: Really?
BARKLEY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: When about?
BARKLEY: Well, not until 2000 and, I think, 14.
O'BRIEN: Think you can win? BARKLEY: I don't know if I can win, but if I can get on TV every day and try to talk to these kids out there and make their lives better -- the job don't pay that well, you know?
O'BRIEN: But, you know what? I don't think that's going to be such a big problem for you.
BARKLEY: Well, I've got this Vegas thing working so I need...
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true.
BARKLEY: I need cash.
O'BRIEN: I hear you.
Charles Barkley, nice to have you.
Thanks for coming in to talk to us.
BARKLEY: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: The book is terrific. It's called "Who's Afraid of A Large Black Man?"
Charles Barkley.
In just a moment, we're going to take you back to Rome.
AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back to Rome.
President Bush now en route to Rome, Italy to attend the funeral on Friday for Pope John Paul II. He will be here among 200 heads of state and religious leaders from around the world.
One of those religious leaders was invited, but due to health he cannot attend. That's the Reverend Billy Graham. In his place, though, will be his daughter, Anne Graham Lotz.
And she's my guest now here at the Vatican.
Welcome to Italy.
ANNE GRAHAM LOTZ, DAUGHTER OF BILLY GRAHAM: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: And good to see you.
LOTZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: How is your dad doing, by the way?
LOTZ: He's doing great.
HEMMER: Yes?
LOTZ: And he's just strong, healthy, sharp, handsome as ever. He just has a hard time walking, a hard time hearing. Other than that, he's fine.
HEMMER: He is suffering from Parkinson's.
LOTZ: Yes.
HEMMER: And we know the pope suffered, as well.
LOTZ: Yes, yes.
HEMMER: Did he see a similar struggle when he watched videotape of the pope or saw him on television?
LOTZ: You know, I don't think my father has those symptoms that the pope did. If you look at my father, you don't see the trembling and all that.
What I think is special is that neither one of them allowed that to hinder what they thought god called them to do.
HEMMER: Wow!
LOTZ: You know, so the pope just pressed through and my father is doing the same thing.
HEMMER: Yes, apparently I guess on Saturday night, over the weekend, he told Larry King, your father did, I don't have the physical strength to go, and I've been invited. They wanted a woman to come representing me.
Did that surprise you, when they asked for a woman?
LOTZ: Well, it surprised me that I was asked to come. And I didn't get that word until late. And I feel honored that my father would ask me to come represent him. So I'm just glad to be here.
HEMMER: Yes, tell me what this man, I guess, perhaps, meant to you on a personal level when he reflected that upon the men and women around the world where he traveled?
LOTZ: The pope, you're speaking of the pope? I think the thing that strikes me is that he is a man who had courage of his convictions and his convictions were rooted in his understanding of the bible. And he didn't back off because of political correctness or the opinions of other people. And he loved people. You know, he took his message outside the walls of the Vatican to the world.
And if the message is as important as I believe it is, the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and we might present that a little differently than the pope would, but it's a message to take to the world. And he did that. HEMMER: There has been some criticism, too, throughout the week, too, about women in the church and, you know, this was a pope who had a traditional stance. He felt men should be the only ones who carry the collar, that should be priests.
Have you reflected on that and the increasing role that women could take on in a future Catholic Church?
LOTZ: Well, you know, I'm not Catholic.
HEMMER: I understand.
LOTZ: So I feel like that's sort of an in-house debate.
I am Baptist and there's a similar debate in the Baptist Church. For me, I'm not ordained. I haven't been whatever. But it hasn't hindered me from telling people about Jesus. And so I feel that god opens the doors for me. And so I just go where he sends me and give the word from his word that he puts on my heart. And so I feel like that's just a non-issue for me, although I do believe being a woman in ministry, if I can set a standard and maybe be a role model of encouragement for other women, then I appreciate that opportunity. But I'm not trying to put myself in anybody's pulpit, you know?
HEMMER: Well, you are going to see some kind of ceremony on Friday. When you think about the world leaders that will gather here in the mourners down there on the street below, it'll be a special time.
Good to see you here.
LOTZ: Thank you.
And you know what I'm going to think about is that we're all going to die, Bill. You know, everybody is going to come to this point in time when we step into eternity. The important thing is that we know where we're going to be on the other side and I know I'm going to heaven because I've put my faith in Jesus.
HEMMER: Anne Graham Lotz, thanks for making time with us today.
LOTZ: God bless you.
HEMMER: All right.
We'll see you a bit later.
LOTZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: Back to Soledad now with more in New York.
O'BRIEN: All right, Bill, thanks.
Well, you heard Charles Barkley saying he wants to run for governor. The wealth gap between blacks and whites sure to be a platform issue for him one day then, if that happens. CAFFERTY: He could buy Alabama, Barkley.
O'BRIEN: Yes. He said it doesn't pay so well, the job.
CAFFERTY: Yes, no. Well, he'll make it. He'll struggle through. I talked to him for a minute out in the hall. He's a good guy. I like Charles.
African-Americans falling farther behind -- this isn't good news -- when it comes to their economic status. A National Urban League report, the annual one, comes out today. It says African-Americans have achieved only 57 percent of the economic status of whites. The unemployment gap widened last year, 10.8 percent for blacks, 4.7 percent for whites, better than two to one.
The financial progress made by blacks in the 1990s appears to be stalling.
The question this morning is what should be done to close the wealth gap between blacks and whites in this country.
Reg in Ontario weighs in with this. This is a good effort on your part there, Reg: "You'll never eliminate the wealth difference between blacks and whites as long as you allow white bigots on one side and the NAACP on the other to continue to point out the color differences. Only when you eliminate all reference to color from both sides will the gap close."
Jerry in Georgia writes: "The educational system in the United States is deplorable in its inability to provide equal quality to poor communities. It's time to federalize the system because local school boards are political and a failure. Politics and education don't mix well."
Rick in Georgia writes: "First and foremost, we ought to stop asking questions like this one."
Hey, Rick, I've got to do something here for three hours to earn my paycheck. "Stop being an enabler to weak minds and start giving -- being an enabler to those with guts, gumption and drive to succeed against the odds. That is truly American, regardless of color."
And finally, John in Ohio writes: "It's not a black and white issue. How do you close the gap between the elite and the rest of society when 95 percent of legislation that pertains to the economy favors the wealthy?"
O'BRIEN: Some interesting feedback this morning, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it's a good question.
O'BRIEN: It's a good question to chew on.
CAFFERTY: It's a troubling report, but it's a good question.
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true. All right, Jack, thanks.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Well, the intense rivalry between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees resumed this week. And baseball fan David Letterman has been watching.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN, COURTESY CBS/WORLDWIDE PANTS)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: I love the Yankees-Red Sox series. Unbelievable, isn't it? I mean the roar of the crowd, the crack of the bat, the smell of the tear gas. What a!
It was chilly at Yankee Stadium for opening day. It was so cold, Jose Canseco was injecting players with hot cocoa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: That was actually kind of funny.
Much more AMERICAN MORNING ahead this morning.
We're going to take you back live to Rome in just a moment, what they've been calling that river of humanity continues to flow steadily through the Vatican. More than a million people now have passed through so far. We're going to tell you how those pilgrims are holding up.
We're back in just a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: I'm Bill Hemmer live in Rome again.
The Conclave date has been set. The cardinals will convene in 12 days to begin choosing the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
More details in a moment as our coverage continues live in Italy, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien in New York.
But you're looking at pictures from Rome, Italy this morning, which is where Bill Hemmer is -- Bill, these crowds really, over the last couple of days, we were saying they were impressive. But, of course, as that number grows, we are even more moved by those who have come out to really spend their last moments with Pope John Paul II.
HEMMER: Yes, they are extraordinary, Soledad.
We thought they were long yesterday. We thought they were long Monday night. But again today, I mean they are twice as long as they were when we left them about late in the evening yesterday. And there is a situation developing here, Soledad. The church is expecting to close on Thursday night, which is about another day and a half. They want to close then so they can get ready for the funeral on Friday.
If that's the case, and if these lines continue, there will be tens of thousands of people that will not get the opportunity to pay their final respects. And they are extraordinary.
We'll take you down and talk with some of them in a moment here. Diana Muriel is working the cobblestone pavement of Vatican Square in a moment.
Also, we want to talk to Delia Gallagher right now, our Vatican analyst, because it was last hour when we found that the Conclave would be set for April 18. That's about 12 days from now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
