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Nancy Grace

Jailhouse Warden`s Wife Found After 10-Year-Old Kidnapping; Audio Tapes Detailing Alleged Molestation Surface in Jackson Trial; Samantha Runnion`s Alleged Killer on Trial in California, CNNHN

Aired April 06, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST: Tonight, a ten-year mystery is solved, as a jailhouse warden`s wife, kidnapped ten years ago, is found living with her abductor. He is a convicted killer who escaped from behind bars.
And tonight, secret audio tapes detailing alleged Michael Jackson child molestation surface.

Also, in California, five-year-old Samantha Runnion`s alleged killer, Alejandro Avila, on trial in a California courtroom and facing the California death penalty. Now, a jury let him walk once. After a day in the jury box watching the defendant`s child pornography, will a second jury make the same mistake?

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Samantha Runnion, kidnapped, raped, murdered. Alejandro Avila on trial. And secret sex tapes emerge in the child molestation case of Michael Jackson.

But first, a convicted killer, Randolph Dial, escaped from behind bars in Oklahoma, taking the warden`s wife with him. Well, that was ten long years ago. Now both have been found on a Texas farm.

It`s back to prison for him. But what about her? Was she held against her will? Was she brainwashed, or was she in love?

Tonight, in Altus, Oklahoma, Greer County D.A. John Wampler; in New York, defense attorney Richard Herman; and psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders.

But first, to Dallas and CNN`s Ed Lavandera.

Ed, bring me up-to-date on this one, friend.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, where do we get started on this one, Nancy?

GRACE: Well, I guess we could say on the chicken farm where they were found. First of all, how did they get found, number one?

LAVANDERA: Well, what we`ve been told is that "America`s Most Wanted" had profiled Randolph Dial in this case. But it wasn`t a recent episode, from what I understand. It aired several weeks ago if not months ago.

And I was told by one law enforcement source here in Texas that the person who wanted to call in this tip actually took a long time to muster up the courage to call in the tip. In fact, it actually went through a middle person, I`ve been told. And that person apparently knows Dial but is so afraid of him that they were very weary of calling in this tip. So it took a while.

GRACE: OK. A tip called in from John Walsh`s "America`s Most Wanted." You are seeing the chicken farm -- or you were seeing the chicken farm -- where this young lady and her abductor were found after a tip on "America`s Most Wanted."

Back to Ed Lavandera. Ed, explain to me how he was connected to the warden`s wife? Take me back in time ten years ago. Tell me the story, Ed.

LAVANDERA: Well, this guy was convicted in 1986 of murder. He had spent almost nine years in prison. And from what he said, from the moment he landed in prison, he was trying to figure a way out.

Before his prison life, he was an artist, he`s a sculptor. He has a master`s degree in art. He had convinced the prison authorities, from what I understand there, to create an inmate pottery program. And then over the years, he had developed trustee status, which means that he was given privileges other inmates weren`t given.

GRACE: Ed, Ed, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Yes?

GRACE: Ed, listen, after being in more jails than you want to hear about, it`s not like the board of trustees, OK? It`s trusty, T-R-U-S-T-Y, behind bars.

LAVANDERA: OK, I`m just laying -- I`m laying it out until we get to 1994, which is where we want to get to.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: OK, go ahead. Go ahead, friend.

LAVANDERA: So he gets there. He creates this pottery program. At some point, the kiln for the pottery program was in the deputy warden`s garage. He has access to this garage through...

GRACE: Say what? Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You`ve got a prison. You`ve got a prisoner who pled guilty to murder with a kiln, a pottery kiln, outside the prison grounds at the warden`s garage? Did I hear that?

LAVANDERA: Yes, that`s what we`re being told.

GRACE: OK.

LAVANDERA: And through this program is how he meets Bobbi Parker. And then according to him, and after he was arrested yesterday, or Monday afternoon, he came out and spoke with reporters yesterday. And he says he had worked on her home, talked to her, and made, as he told us, said that he made her think that the "enemy was the friend and the friend was the enemy," was his direct quote.

And according to him, he held her at gun point. And one day in August of `94, he forced her to drive off. And he still maintains that over the last almost 11 years, he has held her against her will.

GRACE: On a chicken farm in a trailer? OK, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Well, for the last five years. Yes?

GRACE: Ed, I have heard an interview with a young woman who works at like a 7-11 down the street. And she said that this couple would come in. The abductee would buy gas, buy groceries, take off in the car. The locals are not buying the kidnapped theory.

You know what, Ed? As fantastic a reporter as you are, I think we both can admit we need a shrink on this one.

Here in the studio with me, clinical psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders. Dr. Saunders, you remember Patty Hearst. Let`s see who else? Oh, Katherine Solia (sic), the soccer mom that was actually a terrorist here in America back in the 1970s. Both of them claim Stockholm Syndrome. Explain.

DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Stockholm Syndrome is named after a bank robbery that happened in Sweden where the perpetrators effectively brainwashed the victims, the hostages, so that the hostages listened to them, wound up supporting them, and one of them even wound up marrying them. So it`s a special form of brainwashing.

GRACE: That`s quite a bit of brainwashing, to marry someone. So let me go to Greer County District Attorney, joining us tonight, John Wampler.

John, welcome. Why was Dial behind bars to start with?

JOHN WAMPLER, GREER COUNTY PROSECUTOR: He was convicted of first- degree murder in the death of a karate instructor, as I understand it. That case actually came out of Tulsa County. And he was sent to the Oklahoma state reformatory, which is within my jurisdiction. And as was stated earlier, he was placed on trusty status and was able to get himself into a position where he was able to escape.

GRACE: He got in quite a position. I will second that one.

But John, even the original murder charge is unusual, because the murder, the death of the karate instructor, had long since passed. He goes up to a cop on a street in another city and says, "I want to turn myself in on a murder that went down several years ago." And the cops, at first, were like, "Yes, sure you do," until they checked it out.

And in fact, there had been a death of a karate instructor. So everything around this guy, Dial, is very unusual, in my mind.

WAMPLER: Well, that`s true. The entire case is very unusual. And some of the details about the original charge, I didn`t learn until today.

GRACE: Yes.

WAMPLER: And I was very surprised to learn that he had confessed. And I knew that it was six years afterwards, or five years after the murder, before he was convicted.

GRACE: Yes.

WAMPLER: But I had no idea that he had just, out of the clear blue, confessed, and apparently was intoxicated at the time in Las Vegas when he did this. It`s very bizarre.

GRACE: The whole thing surrounding this guy, very, very unusual.

Before we go to break, Elizabeth, can you show me the alleged love nest? It`s a chicken farm.

And Dr. Saunders, this guy must have a silver tongue, because he knows how to sweet talk the ladies. He convinced this lady to stay on a chicken farm and leave her family. He had been married five times, Dr. Saunders. Help me.

SAUNDERS: And the last wife was murdered a few months after he was jailed. She had reported a history of physical and emotional abuse from him. And he would lie, and distort, and spin fantasies towards her. Nobody knows what happened, who killed her.

GRACE: Well, OK, we are bringing you the latest. A prison warden`s wife, kidnapped ten years ago, has been found living on a chicken ranch for the last ten years with her abductor. She has gone home for a reunion and he has landed back in jail. How much time does he face, and what about her? Did she aid and abet a known felon?

We`re bringing you the latest in the Michael Jackson trial, newly surfaced audio sex tapes in that trial, as well as the Alejandro Avila trial going down in California right now. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Dial`s videotaped confession for the 1981 murder of Broken Arrow karate instructor, Kelly Hogan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contracts had been let on his life in the amount of $5,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hogan`s murder went unsolved for five years, until Dial turned himself in. His sentence, life at the Oklahoma state reformatory. Bobbi Parker was one of Dial`s students. The escapee is an accomplished artist, sculptor, and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Master manipulator, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dial convinced prison administrators to let him start a pottery program for inmates at the Parker`s home. Bobbi Parker was so good at it, she was going to take over the program. That meant Dial would lose his trusty privilege and truly face life behind bars.

On August 30, 1994...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that he kidnapped the deputy warden`s wife, took her vehicle with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty-year-old Randolph Dial escaped from an Oklahoma prison in 1994, sentenced for killing a man he thought was giving drugs to his children. When he escaped, he says he took a hostage, the assistant prison warden`s wife, Bobbi Parker.

The two had been working on farms in the center Crockett and Acadoshish (ph) areas until a tip led to Dial`s arrest. Authorities found two loaded guns in the mobile home, but Dial did not put up a fight. They also found a copy of the book "At Large" that was written about the escape.

RANDOLPH DIAL, CAPTURED PRISON ESCAPEE: But you read that book and you get the impression that if you cross me, you will rue the day. And I think she believed that. I think she still believes it, but she didn`t have anything to do with me getting caught, so she`s not in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

Well, truth is stranger than fiction. And tonight proves that. Over ten years ago, a warden`s wife disappears with a man convicted of murder. She turns up just in the last 48 hours or so on a chicken ranch. She had been living with this guy for over ten years.

Very quickly, let me go to John Wampler, the Greer County district attorney. John, he had already done about eight years on a murder-one charge. I`m now hearing tonight that he claims the victim was selling dope to his kid or trying to sell dope to his kid. I mean, he`s definitely got a story.

Did that story come out at trial? Well, he pled. Did that story come before the district attorney`s office?

WAMPLER: I`m not sure whether it did or not. I did not prosecute that case and have not had an opportunity to review the file from that county. It`s not within my jurisdiction. I learned that news today just like some of the other details.

GRACE: Yes. Everybody, John Wampler is the current D.A. This murder charge was prosecuted many, many years ago.

So John, if he had already done eight years in your jurisdiction with a simple life sentence, how much more time was he looking at? He had good behavior.

WAMPLER: Well, under our laws in Oklahoma, he would have had the opportunity to go before the pardon and parole board after serving 15 years. So he had about seven more years before he would at least be considered.

GRACE: Whoa. OK, to Ed Lavandera, CNN reporter, Ed, what`s he looking at now with an escape charge and a possible kidnap prosecution?

Although, let me tell you, that`s going to be a tough one to prove to a jury that this woman stayed on a chicken farm. Have you ever seen a chicken farm, Ed? They really stink, OK?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, I have got a full load of them the last 48 hours. It`s where I`ve been.

GRACE: So how much more time is he looking at now?

LAVANDERA: You know, he was asked -- Dial was asked that question. I`m not exactly sure what the parameters will be, but he doesn`t -- at 60, he doesn`t expect to get out of prison now.

GRACE: Really? Now, tell me about Mrs. Parker. Is she looking at criminal prosecution in any way?

LAVANDERA: Well, we`re asking that. She wasn`t arrested. As we mentioned, she was reunited with her family. We understand her whereabouts aren`t exactly clear at this point. We understand she`s with her family, presumably at some point making her way back to Oklahoma.

It`s interesting. I wanted to lay out some of the details that we`ve learned about -- you know, we`ve mentioned she had gone to a gas station that`s about six, seven miles from the home, to pick up groceries, cash checks. She was also seen the day that -- on Monday afternoon when Dial was arrested, she was about a mile away mowing the lawn. She had drive into town, she had her own car.

GRACE: Wait, he had her cutting the grass? She was brainwashed, OK? I`m convinced. Go ahead.

LAVANDERA: But he was making dinner. So she had her own car. We understand that she had just started planting a garden there next to the trailer.

GRACE: Oh, God.

(LAUGHTER)

LAVANDERA: There`s two bedrooms in that trailer. I asked one of the authorities, you know, were they living in the same room? And he said, well, one of them was storage. The other room appeared to be used by two people.

GRACE: OK, I get your drift, Ed Lavandera, always the gentleman.

John Wampler, this is going to be a toughie to take this to the jury as a kidnapping. Do you think your office will go with kidnapping or a simple escape?

WAMPLER: Well, the escape charge is already pending. It was filed back in 1994 right after the escape occurred. So, it`s pending. And we`re definitely going to proceed with it.

Now, as far as the kidnapping, I`m still waiting to get reports from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation and the FBI as to what`s gone on over the last 10 to 11 years. I don`t have those reports at this time. I expect that there`s going to be additional interviews that will need to be made. And until that report is presented to me and I have a chance to review it...

GRACE: No decision?

WAMPLER: ... I have no idea what he will be charged with.

GRACE: Well, John Wampler, very wisely, keeping it close to the vest.

Let me quickly go to Michelle Suskauer, defense attorney. Michelle, if they do file kidnapping charges -- first of all, welcome, friend.

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you.

GRACE: If they file kidnapping charges, you have got yourself a doozy of a defense, agree or disagree?

SUSKAUER: Oh, my gosh. You know what? I would have a field day with this woman in questioning her, asking her all kinds of questions. It would be wonderful.

You know, she made all of these phone calls. A couple of phone calls, she didn`t sound nervous. She didn`t sound upset. For God sakes, she was sharing a bedroom with this guy for ten years. She was gardening. I hear now she`s doing the lawn. She`s doing everything. So again, you really -- we could have a field day cross-examining her.

GRACE: Oh, yes.

Richard Herman, also a veteran defense attorney, just like Michelle. Well, Richard, they certainly made it past the seven-year itch. That`s got to count for something, right?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Must be out in that chicken farm, Nancy. I don`t know, but...

GRACE: All that fresh air.

HERMAN: It`s worse than that. This guy, I`m told, was on the death bed, having a heart problem, on the verge of a heart attack and dying. And she nursed him back to health. She must have had 10,000 opportunities to get back home.

And I would like to see Mr. Wampler say with a straight face he`s not going to charge her as an aider and abettor.

GRACE: Oh, man, all I can say is, that poor warden.

You know, the warden -- Ed Lavandera, I have got to go to break. But the warden did not remarry. He hired a private eye to try to find his wife. She left behind two daughters, two little girls. I think they were about eight-years-old at the time.

Elizabeth, do you have that graph of what one of the little girls -- oh, she is pulling it up.

Hold on, Ed. When you see this, your heart`s going to break. We`ve been kicking this around jokingly.

Do you have that yet, Elizabeth? These two girls left when they were young. "Dear Santa, do not bring me a present. I just want my mom back."

So while we`re all kidding about the ludicrous theory of Stockholm Syndrome, these two girls were the ones that suffered. They`ve grown up without a mom, their dad looking desperately for his wife. She shacked up on a chicken ranch with a killer.

OK, quick break. To "Trial Tracking": One of America`s best-known lawyers, Johnnie Cochran, Johnnie laid to rest today. He passed away last week from an inoperable brain tumor. His L.A. funeral attended by the famous and the infamous alike, O.J. Simpson, Michael Jackson, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. Cochran, a friend and a colleague, he and I started our careers together on air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNIE COCHRAN, LATE DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re saying to you, look, we have problems here.

GRACE: Maybe the DNA was not as strong as he wished, but when you get a one in a hundred match-up as opposed to one in a million, and you combine that match-up...

COCHRAN: Who says you`re going to get that?

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. And you combine that to all the other circumstantial evidence you have, you might have a pretty good case.

COCHRAN: That`s wishful thinking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Johnnie Cochran laid to rest today. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Secret audiotapes emerge in the Michael Jackson trial. Last witness on the stand? Jackson`s former maid, who claimed under oath she saw Jackson in the shower. He wasn`t alone. She says a little boy was in there with him.

Tonight, in L.A., from "The Insider," Ed Harris.

But first, to "Celebrity Justice" correspondent, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, bring me up-to-date, friend.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Well, you were talking about tapes, Nancy. And there are these tapes now on the Internet. There is a Phoenix businessman who`s brokering these tapes.

So I called him up. He actually hung up on me, but he referred me to his website. And there`s three audiotapes playing on the Internet that you can hear purportedly of Michael Jackson talking to a young boy from the `80s. It does sound like Michael Jackson. He`s talking about intimate details of his life.

We don`t know if it`s authentic. But it certainly makes sense that it might be because we know for years that he loves to call boys and talk on the phone. Supposedly, there are eight hours of tapes. And at one point, supposedly, he says he was a virgin until the age of 32. Now, we know he married Lisa Marie Presley after that age. So who knows? It`s possible that Michael Jackson was a virgin until he was 32.

GRACE: He would have thunk whether Michael Jackson is a virgin or not would be a topic of discussion? But thank you, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse. She`s been on the case from the get-go.

Art Harris is with us tonight on an entirely different set of tapes. Art Harris, explain.

ART HARRIS, "THE INSIDER": These are tapes of the 13-year-old victim from 1993 talking to a psychiatrist who was hired by his lawyer at the time, Larry Feldman, to vet his story, to see if he was telling the truth. And this man sat down with him for hours. There was a videotape made. And a family member made an audiotape of that videotape. And I got them from him.

They are very, very compelling. You listen to this voice of a 13- year-old boy telling about his relationship with Michael Jackson, his alleged seduction, how it graduated from a lot of the things we`re hearing from the stand today, from playfulness to a peck on the cheek, to hugs, to trips and lavish presents for parents and his mother, and some very disturbing allegations, very similar to the police affidavit that I have seen and that has been published on Smoking Gun by this 13-year-old former alleged victim.

GRACE: Elizabeth, can you pull up the "Kiss" screen, the second graph we have of Art`s tapes?

"By the way, did he say to you that you should never talk to anybody?

Accuser: He said that this, that we had a little box. This was a secret. And it`s a box that only him and I could share."

I`m sorry. Elizabeth, I was right. You went out of order. Could you put that up quickly for me?

The therapist states, "What were the two kinds of kisses? What kind of kiss was it?" "Just a peck on the cheek."

"Therapist: And then what happened?

"Boy: And so he continued as well as the hugging and then he graduated to kissing me on the lips."

OK, we`re going to bring you excerpts from these audiotapes. Art Harris from "The Insider" with us tonight. Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse with "Celebrity Justice." We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Italian officials are no longer allowing people to join the line to view the body of Pope John Paul II. Those already in line may have to wait as long as 24 hours just to spend a few seconds (UNINTELLIGIBLE) The Vatican says between 15,000 and 18,000 mourners have filed past the body each hour.

Several people have been injured and some two dozen homes destroyed after several tornadoes touched down in Mississippi. Governor Haley Barbour has declared a state of emergency. Meteorologists believe the storm front could be headed for parts of Alabama, Tennessee and Florida.

Well, ever so slowly, NASA is moving its Space Shuttle Discovery to a launch pad. The rollout was delayed briefly as engineers examined a small crack in the foam that insulates the external fuel tank. NASA says the shuttle can fly, despite that flaw, though. Discovery is scheduled to launch in May. It will be the first shuttle flight since the Columbia disaster in 2003.

And that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER ACCUSED OF MOLESTATION: We have guest units, but whenever kids come here, they always want to stay with me. They never want to stay in the guest -- and I have never invited them in my room. They always just want to stay. They say, "Can I stay with you tonight?" And I go, "If it`s OK with your parents, yes, you can."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from the ABC version of the Martin Bashir documentary. That was shown to the Jackson jury.

To Michelle Suskauer, after the jury have seen that, the creep factor is way off the chart in the courtroom.

SUSKAUER: It is. You know, that`s some tough information. Obviously, Michael Jackson is his own worst enemy here. But again, you know, that`s just a videotape, an interview. And certainly the prosecution is going to say, "Hey, listen, we don`t even need Michael Jackson to testify here, because we have this tape."

GRACE: Let me go back to Art Harris. Art Harris is describing some newly revealed audiotapes between one of Jackson`s molestation accusers and his therapist.

Let`s go, Elizabeth, if you don`t mind, to the cry. Young boy says, "It`s not that easy. Jackson would cry. He would say, `You don`t love me anymore.`"

That is such a typical mode, Art, of guilting out a molestation victim.

ART HARRIS, "THE INSIDER": Nancy, these other alleged victims have told police I have interviewed from way back from the `93 case that this was a pattern Jackson had of playing one boy off against the other, allegedly, saying, "So and so likes me more than you do. He`ll let me do this, and he`ll let me do that. You must not love me."

And it`s a fascinating window into what the prosecution is trying to prove on this tape. The boy says he used his overwhelmingness -- that`s a word he used -- his adulthood to manipulate me into doing things. And I believed him. I trusted him. After all, he was Michael Jackson.

GRACE: Let me go to Dr. Patricia Saunders. Doctor, is it normal to tape therapy sessions?

SAUNDERS: No, it`s not. And you need written consent to do it. How somebody got a hold of these tapes is really of concern to me. If I were Dr. Katz, I would be hopping up and down with an ethics book in one hand and a law book in the other.

GRACE: So, Art, how`d you get your mitts on these tapes, friend?

HARRIS: Time out. Time out. Time out. These are not therapy tapes.

GRACE: Oh, thank you.

HARRIS: These were tapes made by a therapist who was hired by a lawyer for this young boy and his family, who was trying to vet his story. He was not in the role of a therapist. And therefore, it was videotaped. And then a family member audiotaped it for a book he was writing. And so it is not in the context of a session.

GRACE: It was a therapist with the boy?

HARRIS: It was a therapist, not Dr. Katz, someone in New York, who is now dead, Richard Gardner. And he was an expert at the time, an expert at suppressed memories. And he is usually, back then, he was used by criminal defense lawyers to attack cases brought against their clients.

GRACE: OK. So, Art, I understand that this is the boy with a therapist. And it became public because they were working -- someone was working on a book?

HARRIS: Yes, you know his uncle...

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: ... who was on your show before, wrote his book, and used lots of notes no one has access to and was also given these tapes by his brother, the father. And he was allowed to...

GRACE: But, Art, that doesn`t mean it wasn`t a therapy session. A kid is talking to a therapist. That`s a therapy session. Why the dad gave it away, now, that`s anybody`s guess.

HARRIS: Well, it was arguably not a therapist. It was not the boy`s therapist. It was someone who was hired by the lawyer. So you know, you can split hairs however you want.

GRACE: OK. I get it. I get it. I get it.

You know what? Once again, we need a shrink. Dr. Saunders, it just seems to me the law and psychology and psychiatry are very twisted together tonight. Doctor, even if someone is writing a book and you decide, rightly or wrongly, to take your kid to a therapist, then use all that for the book.

SAUNDERS: But you have to get written consent to do that, even if it`s with the knowledge that this might be made public. They can`t do it. They can`t release the information without written consent.

GRACE: Elizabeth, let`s put up the mom`s screen if we could.

"Therapist: Do you think any trust of your mother has been affected?

Boy: Well, not because she, as people would say, she tried to pimp me out. More because of maybe I tried to tell her one time and she didn`t believe me."

To defense attorney Richard Herman, Richard, I know you have got a million defenses in your pocket for Michael Jackson, but haven`t you heard over and over in court where a kid says, "I told someone. They didn`t believe me"?

HERMAN: Well, Nancy, you know, if this interview was given to the police or if this interview was given to Los Angeles child protective services, I would put more stake into it. This is part of the plaintiff`s personal injury team. This just screams out money. They`re writing books. They`re releasing this. It`s unbelievable what`s going on here, Nancy. It`s all about money. Come on.

GRACE: What about it, Jane Velez-Mitchell?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Well, we`re going to hear from the mother of this `93 accuser in the next coming days, possibly as soon as tomorrow. So we`re going to hear on the stand what she has to say about all of this.

I can tell you that, reading a fascinating biography of Michael Jackson, a published report that when this woman first noticed her son and Michael Jackson on sleepovers, she confronted, allegedly, Michael Jackson, and he began to cry.

So the theme of tears used for manipulation is certainly one that we`ve heard over and over through the years as well as secrets. The 24- year-old accuser who took the stand earlier this week and spoke of how Michael Jackson allegedly molested him three times said Michael Jackson gave him money and told him, "Don`t tell your mom." So secrets another common theme.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Jane Velez-Mitchell, from the tapes we have gotten through Art Harris.

Can you put up "Lying," the graph of "Lying"? We`ve titled some of these.

The young boy says, "At the time, the things Michael was doing to me, they didn`t affect me. Like I didn`t think anything was totally wrong with what he was doing since he was my friend. And he kept telling me he would never hurt me. But presently, I see that he was obviously lying."

Elizabeth, can we go straight to the next one, "Power"? The young boy says, referring to Michael Jackson, "He`s using his power, his experience, his age, his overwhelmingness to get what he wants." That`s a statement Art told us about earlier.

So Art Harris, will any of this ever come into trial before this jury?

HARRIS: If this boy, now a grown man, young man, winds up testifying, this would be more than hearsay. It could be entered. It`s a similar story he has told to the L.A. police detectives.

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: It`s a similar story he has said in his affidavit. And it`s fascinating to hear the voice, very, very compelling. Like Jane said, this is part of a pattern the prosecution hopes the jury will understand...

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: ... of shared secrets that often sexual predators will try to establish with a victim.

GRACE: ... a victim.

HARRIS: So that they will bond and move away from their parents to a relationship with them.

GRACE: Well, you know what`s interesting, Jane Velez-Mitchell? These tapes likely will never come in, because we know this accuser, the `93 accuser, is not taking the stand. So they certainly won`t come in on any type of cross-examination.

Now, Jane, what do you think will be brought in to establish the `93 accuser`s case against Jackson if he`s not coming to court?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, his mom is going to tell the story. And she has got a very compelling story to tell.

And she may want closure. She may want to wipe the slate clean and maybe try to ingratiate herself into her son`s life again. Apparently, they haven`t spoken for many, many years. She may be plagued by guilt. Why didn`t she do something?

We`ve talked about this overwhelmingness of Michael Jackson, and I see it everyday when he goes in and out of court. You can talk about him being a freak all you want. He has an incredible level of charisma.

In fact, people who are not on his side, reporters who clearly have a pro-prosecution stance, if he locks eyes with them and answers their question, they are giddy, like youngsters. "Oh, he looked at me. He looked at me. He locked eyes with me."

The charisma that Michael Jackson has is palpable when you see him come in and out of court. So obviously, he is able to influence not only children, but their parents, and not just with jewels and money that he has bestowed, but with his personality. His ability to persuade is very clear. Whether he is guilty or innocent, he clearly has a charisma and an ability to get people to do what he wants to.

GRACE: Jane Velez-Mitchell, we saw Robert Blake, a B-list celeb, work that charisma on a jury, much less someone who is out of the world with popularity. I mean he literally is the king of pop.

Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse, Art Harris with "Insider." Our panel stays.

We are switching gears, our trial files, to this murder case of Alejandro Avila. You`ll be surprised to learn a jury let him walk shortly before Samantha Runnion was murdered on double charges of child molestation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and your support from every corner of the Earth. I love the community of Santa Maria very much. It`s my community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN RUNNION, SAMANTHA RUNNION`S MOTHER: That`s all I could say was, why do you hurt them? Why do you -- you know, if you`re sick, you`re sick. But why do you have to hurt them, you know? To take your own illness out, to not realize what a sickness it is, and to hurt children, to realize that this is your problem, not a baby`s, that these are human beings who have histories, who have personalities, that have potential that you can never imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: On trial right now in a California courtroom, Alejandro Avila. Avila was released, acquitted by a jury shortly before Samantha Runnion`s kidnap, rape and murder.

Joining me right now, Larry Welborn from the Orange County Register. He is a reporter.

What`s the latest, Larry?

LARRY WELBORN, ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER: Well, the prosecution rested yesterday after eight days of testimony. The defense is supposed to begin presenting evidence beginning on Monday.

GRACE: What was the latest evidence?

WELBORN: The latest evidence the prosecution was entered that Mr. Avila had 20 images of child pornography on his computer at home, 20 videos and links to several different child pornography Web sites.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting to me? And I`m going to throw this one to Michelle Suskauer. At the first trial of Alejandro Avila, the defense attorney, John Pozza, told the jury police planted the child porn. And the jury bought it.

SUSKAUER: Well, you know, first of all, again, that is a separate case. And I know that there were two alleged victims, two nine-year-olds, who I believe their testimony was allowed in, in this case. It`s a separate case.

And you know, obviously, it`s the worst -- it`s a defense lawyer, judge`s and prosecutor`s worst nightmare for something like this to happen again. But that was a separate case. And a jury -- we can`t be unfair to the jury. The jury listened to that, and the jury certainly could not pre- judge that this was going to possibly happen again. So we have to look at that case in a separate situation.

GRACE: Well, you may think so, Michelle. I don`t. I think the jury screwed it up but good. They let this guy off, they chose to disbelieve two little girls, who had basically the same story about molestation, they chose to disbelieve them and believe that cops would plant child porn and let this guy go. Take a listen to his defense lawyer, John Pozza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You accused them of being coached, didn`t you? I can see it right here in black and white.

JOHN POZZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR ALEJANDRO AVILA: Well, absolutely. That was absolutely one of our defenses. And I have an ethical obligation to zealously represent my clients. And that`s what I do. And I don`t have a problem looking at myself in the mirror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: John Pozza speaking out on Larry King one night when I was on the panel.

Dr. Patricia Saunders, how common are stranger abductions?

SAUNDERS: They`re not that common, Nancy. Only about 1 percent of children who are abducted are sexually assaulted and murdered, probably about an eighth of all abductions are by strangers.

GRACE: When it`s stranger abduction, is the child usually let go or murdered?

SAUNDERS: Yes, in 90 percent of them, they`re sexually assaulted and they`re let go. About 1 or 2 percent are actually murdered.

GRACE: To Tony Rackauckas, the Orange County district attorney, Tony, the child porn the jury heard today, was it from the old case where he was acquitted or the current case?

TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, it was from both. And basically, he has an inordinate interest in sexual matters with children. And of course, that`s so very well-demonstrated by all that child porn.

GRACE: I know that you had DNA evidence in this case, Tony.

RACKAUCKAS: Yes.

GRACE: What was it?

RACKAUCKAS: Well, we had DNA evidence that was inside the car, on his center console and on the door pole and the door handle. And of course, it was consistent with teardrops from the victim.

GRACE: Oh.

RACKAUCKAS: And I mean, it`s just a very sad thing, but very, very clear evidence that she was in his car. And we also have his DNA from under her fingernails.

GRACE: Richard Herman, I know that, of course, I`ve never been a defense lawyer, but it must be horrible to realize the guy you got off then went on to commit a murder of a little girl. Evidence that you got suppressed in the earlier trial reared its ugly head, child porn in the next trial.

HERMAN: Nancy, it`s gut-wrenching. And there is no answer for that. We do the best we can to defend our clients within the boundaries of the law. And it`s just -- this is the absolute worst nightmare situation. And with respect to this case, the fact that his DNA was found under her nails, it`s absolutely devastating, just devastating.

GRACE: Michelle Suskauer, you were saying something earlier when we went to a bite. What were you saying, dear?

SUSKAUER: I think I was saying that, you know, each case has to be done individually. And you know, again, we can`t fault that first jury.

GRACE: OK, you know what, Michelle?

SUSKAUER: You know what, Nancy? We were not sitting and listening to that evidence. It`s very easy to be a quarterback and to look at the case and say, "How could they do that?"

And I`m sure that jury -- I`m sure everyone who`s sitting on that jury is feeling absolutely awful. But again, that jury listened to that evidence, and we can`t second guess that jury. They sat in that courtroom and...

GRACE: Maybe you can`t, but when I look at these videos of Samantha Runnion, I can.

Quick break, to "Trial Tracking": Just weeks after the body of nine- year-old Jessica Lunsford was found buried across the street from the Florida home where she lived with her grandparents, her alleged murderer enters a plea of -- hold on -- not guilty. But catch this: Couey already confessed. Convicted sex offender, career criminal, John Evander Couey, will now stand trial for Jessica`s murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK LUNSFORD, FATHER OF JESSICA LUNSFORD: I think they got him here real quickly. And we need to prosecute him. And I need everybody`s support on pushing the death penalty upon this man. He is scum. And anybody that acts like him or even resembles him is scum. And you do not deserve to be amongst us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Of course, John Evander Couey had a rap sheet a mile long. You just heard a bite from Jessie`s father, Mark Lunsford. He begged for weeks for people to help him find his daughter. If convicted, prosecutors promise Couey -- he`ll have his own cell on Florida`s death row.

Local news next for some of you. We will be right back. Remember, live coverage of the Michael Jackson trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments." Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a look at 45-year-old Harry Hicks, fatally attacked while simply riding his bicycle, Modesto, California.

If you have any info on Harry Hicks, please call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation toll-free, 888-813-8389. Please, help us.

Before we sign off, I want to go back to my guests regarding the Samantha Runnion story. I`ll never forget when Samantha went missing.

To the prosecutor, Tony Rackauckas, what is next in the case?

RACKAUCKAS: Well, next, of course, is the defense case. We`ll be seeing what it is they have to offer. And we`re looking very much forward to the penalty phase. We`re seeking the death penalty, as you know, in the case. This is a crime that was done with horrible, unimaginable cruelty. And it`s such a nightmare.

GRACE: Even the way she was found, Tony, the little girl was found having been raped and left naked, posed in a suggestive manor out in the open. I`ll never forget when Sheriff Carona announced that.

RACKAUCKAS: That`s correct. It`s just so offensive, it`s unbelievable.

GRACE: You know, I have got to go back to you very quickly, Dr. Saunders. That, in itself, to me, is very indicative of Alejandro Avila`s frame of mind, the way he left her, like trash on the side of the road.

SAUNDERS: Exactly. Well, the sadistic psychopath pedophile, thank goodness, is very rare. But they should not be walking among us, Nancy.

GRACE: Beautifully put.

Oh, thank you, Elizabeth. This is a shot of Samantha. There is Erin, her mom. Erin specifically warned her about talking to strangers. I have seen this one a million times of Samantha on video.

When her mom tried to warn her about strangers, she had a poster of Hercules over her bed and said, "Mom, I`m like Hercules. I`ll outrun them."

I want to thank all my guests tonight, but my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. I`ll see you right here tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Erica Hill with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

President Bush was among one of the first world leaders to pay homage to Pope John Paul II today. He arrived at St. Peter`s Basilica with the rest of the U.S. delegation which included his father, former President Clinton, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as well as the first lady, Mrs. Bush.

Outside, a long line of mourners still waiting to see the Pope`s body. The Pope`s funeral will be held on Friday.

Prince Rainier of Monaco died today of heart, lung and kidney failure. The 81-year-old monarch had been in the hospital for several weeks. Americans were introduced to him when he married movie star Grace Kelly in 1956.

And in the U.S., violent storms pounding parts of Mississippi and Louisiana. A tornado touched down in Brandon, Mississippi, destroying or damaging more than two dozen homes. It also blew the roof off a school. Students were moved to safety before the tornado struck.

We`ll have more on those stories and the rest of the day`s headlines. Please join Thomas Roberts and me for "PRIME NEWS TONIGHT" next.

END


Aired April 6, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST: Tonight, a ten-year mystery is solved, as a jailhouse warden`s wife, kidnapped ten years ago, is found living with her abductor. He is a convicted killer who escaped from behind bars.
And tonight, secret audio tapes detailing alleged Michael Jackson child molestation surface.

Also, in California, five-year-old Samantha Runnion`s alleged killer, Alejandro Avila, on trial in a California courtroom and facing the California death penalty. Now, a jury let him walk once. After a day in the jury box watching the defendant`s child pornography, will a second jury make the same mistake?

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Samantha Runnion, kidnapped, raped, murdered. Alejandro Avila on trial. And secret sex tapes emerge in the child molestation case of Michael Jackson.

But first, a convicted killer, Randolph Dial, escaped from behind bars in Oklahoma, taking the warden`s wife with him. Well, that was ten long years ago. Now both have been found on a Texas farm.

It`s back to prison for him. But what about her? Was she held against her will? Was she brainwashed, or was she in love?

Tonight, in Altus, Oklahoma, Greer County D.A. John Wampler; in New York, defense attorney Richard Herman; and psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders.

But first, to Dallas and CNN`s Ed Lavandera.

Ed, bring me up-to-date on this one, friend.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, where do we get started on this one, Nancy?

GRACE: Well, I guess we could say on the chicken farm where they were found. First of all, how did they get found, number one?

LAVANDERA: Well, what we`ve been told is that "America`s Most Wanted" had profiled Randolph Dial in this case. But it wasn`t a recent episode, from what I understand. It aired several weeks ago if not months ago.

And I was told by one law enforcement source here in Texas that the person who wanted to call in this tip actually took a long time to muster up the courage to call in the tip. In fact, it actually went through a middle person, I`ve been told. And that person apparently knows Dial but is so afraid of him that they were very weary of calling in this tip. So it took a while.

GRACE: OK. A tip called in from John Walsh`s "America`s Most Wanted." You are seeing the chicken farm -- or you were seeing the chicken farm -- where this young lady and her abductor were found after a tip on "America`s Most Wanted."

Back to Ed Lavandera. Ed, explain to me how he was connected to the warden`s wife? Take me back in time ten years ago. Tell me the story, Ed.

LAVANDERA: Well, this guy was convicted in 1986 of murder. He had spent almost nine years in prison. And from what he said, from the moment he landed in prison, he was trying to figure a way out.

Before his prison life, he was an artist, he`s a sculptor. He has a master`s degree in art. He had convinced the prison authorities, from what I understand there, to create an inmate pottery program. And then over the years, he had developed trustee status, which means that he was given privileges other inmates weren`t given.

GRACE: Ed, Ed, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Yes?

GRACE: Ed, listen, after being in more jails than you want to hear about, it`s not like the board of trustees, OK? It`s trusty, T-R-U-S-T-Y, behind bars.

LAVANDERA: OK, I`m just laying -- I`m laying it out until we get to 1994, which is where we want to get to.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: OK, go ahead. Go ahead, friend.

LAVANDERA: So he gets there. He creates this pottery program. At some point, the kiln for the pottery program was in the deputy warden`s garage. He has access to this garage through...

GRACE: Say what? Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You`ve got a prison. You`ve got a prisoner who pled guilty to murder with a kiln, a pottery kiln, outside the prison grounds at the warden`s garage? Did I hear that?

LAVANDERA: Yes, that`s what we`re being told.

GRACE: OK.

LAVANDERA: And through this program is how he meets Bobbi Parker. And then according to him, and after he was arrested yesterday, or Monday afternoon, he came out and spoke with reporters yesterday. And he says he had worked on her home, talked to her, and made, as he told us, said that he made her think that the "enemy was the friend and the friend was the enemy," was his direct quote.

And according to him, he held her at gun point. And one day in August of `94, he forced her to drive off. And he still maintains that over the last almost 11 years, he has held her against her will.

GRACE: On a chicken farm in a trailer? OK, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Well, for the last five years. Yes?

GRACE: Ed, I have heard an interview with a young woman who works at like a 7-11 down the street. And she said that this couple would come in. The abductee would buy gas, buy groceries, take off in the car. The locals are not buying the kidnapped theory.

You know what, Ed? As fantastic a reporter as you are, I think we both can admit we need a shrink on this one.

Here in the studio with me, clinical psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders. Dr. Saunders, you remember Patty Hearst. Let`s see who else? Oh, Katherine Solia (sic), the soccer mom that was actually a terrorist here in America back in the 1970s. Both of them claim Stockholm Syndrome. Explain.

DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Stockholm Syndrome is named after a bank robbery that happened in Sweden where the perpetrators effectively brainwashed the victims, the hostages, so that the hostages listened to them, wound up supporting them, and one of them even wound up marrying them. So it`s a special form of brainwashing.

GRACE: That`s quite a bit of brainwashing, to marry someone. So let me go to Greer County District Attorney, joining us tonight, John Wampler.

John, welcome. Why was Dial behind bars to start with?

JOHN WAMPLER, GREER COUNTY PROSECUTOR: He was convicted of first- degree murder in the death of a karate instructor, as I understand it. That case actually came out of Tulsa County. And he was sent to the Oklahoma state reformatory, which is within my jurisdiction. And as was stated earlier, he was placed on trusty status and was able to get himself into a position where he was able to escape.

GRACE: He got in quite a position. I will second that one.

But John, even the original murder charge is unusual, because the murder, the death of the karate instructor, had long since passed. He goes up to a cop on a street in another city and says, "I want to turn myself in on a murder that went down several years ago." And the cops, at first, were like, "Yes, sure you do," until they checked it out.

And in fact, there had been a death of a karate instructor. So everything around this guy, Dial, is very unusual, in my mind.

WAMPLER: Well, that`s true. The entire case is very unusual. And some of the details about the original charge, I didn`t learn until today.

GRACE: Yes.

WAMPLER: And I was very surprised to learn that he had confessed. And I knew that it was six years afterwards, or five years after the murder, before he was convicted.

GRACE: Yes.

WAMPLER: But I had no idea that he had just, out of the clear blue, confessed, and apparently was intoxicated at the time in Las Vegas when he did this. It`s very bizarre.

GRACE: The whole thing surrounding this guy, very, very unusual.

Before we go to break, Elizabeth, can you show me the alleged love nest? It`s a chicken farm.

And Dr. Saunders, this guy must have a silver tongue, because he knows how to sweet talk the ladies. He convinced this lady to stay on a chicken farm and leave her family. He had been married five times, Dr. Saunders. Help me.

SAUNDERS: And the last wife was murdered a few months after he was jailed. She had reported a history of physical and emotional abuse from him. And he would lie, and distort, and spin fantasies towards her. Nobody knows what happened, who killed her.

GRACE: Well, OK, we are bringing you the latest. A prison warden`s wife, kidnapped ten years ago, has been found living on a chicken ranch for the last ten years with her abductor. She has gone home for a reunion and he has landed back in jail. How much time does he face, and what about her? Did she aid and abet a known felon?

We`re bringing you the latest in the Michael Jackson trial, newly surfaced audio sex tapes in that trial, as well as the Alejandro Avila trial going down in California right now. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Dial`s videotaped confession for the 1981 murder of Broken Arrow karate instructor, Kelly Hogan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contracts had been let on his life in the amount of $5,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hogan`s murder went unsolved for five years, until Dial turned himself in. His sentence, life at the Oklahoma state reformatory. Bobbi Parker was one of Dial`s students. The escapee is an accomplished artist, sculptor, and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Master manipulator, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dial convinced prison administrators to let him start a pottery program for inmates at the Parker`s home. Bobbi Parker was so good at it, she was going to take over the program. That meant Dial would lose his trusty privilege and truly face life behind bars.

On August 30, 1994...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that he kidnapped the deputy warden`s wife, took her vehicle with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty-year-old Randolph Dial escaped from an Oklahoma prison in 1994, sentenced for killing a man he thought was giving drugs to his children. When he escaped, he says he took a hostage, the assistant prison warden`s wife, Bobbi Parker.

The two had been working on farms in the center Crockett and Acadoshish (ph) areas until a tip led to Dial`s arrest. Authorities found two loaded guns in the mobile home, but Dial did not put up a fight. They also found a copy of the book "At Large" that was written about the escape.

RANDOLPH DIAL, CAPTURED PRISON ESCAPEE: But you read that book and you get the impression that if you cross me, you will rue the day. And I think she believed that. I think she still believes it, but she didn`t have anything to do with me getting caught, so she`s not in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

Well, truth is stranger than fiction. And tonight proves that. Over ten years ago, a warden`s wife disappears with a man convicted of murder. She turns up just in the last 48 hours or so on a chicken ranch. She had been living with this guy for over ten years.

Very quickly, let me go to John Wampler, the Greer County district attorney. John, he had already done about eight years on a murder-one charge. I`m now hearing tonight that he claims the victim was selling dope to his kid or trying to sell dope to his kid. I mean, he`s definitely got a story.

Did that story come out at trial? Well, he pled. Did that story come before the district attorney`s office?

WAMPLER: I`m not sure whether it did or not. I did not prosecute that case and have not had an opportunity to review the file from that county. It`s not within my jurisdiction. I learned that news today just like some of the other details.

GRACE: Yes. Everybody, John Wampler is the current D.A. This murder charge was prosecuted many, many years ago.

So John, if he had already done eight years in your jurisdiction with a simple life sentence, how much more time was he looking at? He had good behavior.

WAMPLER: Well, under our laws in Oklahoma, he would have had the opportunity to go before the pardon and parole board after serving 15 years. So he had about seven more years before he would at least be considered.

GRACE: Whoa. OK, to Ed Lavandera, CNN reporter, Ed, what`s he looking at now with an escape charge and a possible kidnap prosecution?

Although, let me tell you, that`s going to be a tough one to prove to a jury that this woman stayed on a chicken farm. Have you ever seen a chicken farm, Ed? They really stink, OK?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, I have got a full load of them the last 48 hours. It`s where I`ve been.

GRACE: So how much more time is he looking at now?

LAVANDERA: You know, he was asked -- Dial was asked that question. I`m not exactly sure what the parameters will be, but he doesn`t -- at 60, he doesn`t expect to get out of prison now.

GRACE: Really? Now, tell me about Mrs. Parker. Is she looking at criminal prosecution in any way?

LAVANDERA: Well, we`re asking that. She wasn`t arrested. As we mentioned, she was reunited with her family. We understand her whereabouts aren`t exactly clear at this point. We understand she`s with her family, presumably at some point making her way back to Oklahoma.

It`s interesting. I wanted to lay out some of the details that we`ve learned about -- you know, we`ve mentioned she had gone to a gas station that`s about six, seven miles from the home, to pick up groceries, cash checks. She was also seen the day that -- on Monday afternoon when Dial was arrested, she was about a mile away mowing the lawn. She had drive into town, she had her own car.

GRACE: Wait, he had her cutting the grass? She was brainwashed, OK? I`m convinced. Go ahead.

LAVANDERA: But he was making dinner. So she had her own car. We understand that she had just started planting a garden there next to the trailer.

GRACE: Oh, God.

(LAUGHTER)

LAVANDERA: There`s two bedrooms in that trailer. I asked one of the authorities, you know, were they living in the same room? And he said, well, one of them was storage. The other room appeared to be used by two people.

GRACE: OK, I get your drift, Ed Lavandera, always the gentleman.

John Wampler, this is going to be a toughie to take this to the jury as a kidnapping. Do you think your office will go with kidnapping or a simple escape?

WAMPLER: Well, the escape charge is already pending. It was filed back in 1994 right after the escape occurred. So, it`s pending. And we`re definitely going to proceed with it.

Now, as far as the kidnapping, I`m still waiting to get reports from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation and the FBI as to what`s gone on over the last 10 to 11 years. I don`t have those reports at this time. I expect that there`s going to be additional interviews that will need to be made. And until that report is presented to me and I have a chance to review it...

GRACE: No decision?

WAMPLER: ... I have no idea what he will be charged with.

GRACE: Well, John Wampler, very wisely, keeping it close to the vest.

Let me quickly go to Michelle Suskauer, defense attorney. Michelle, if they do file kidnapping charges -- first of all, welcome, friend.

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you.

GRACE: If they file kidnapping charges, you have got yourself a doozy of a defense, agree or disagree?

SUSKAUER: Oh, my gosh. You know what? I would have a field day with this woman in questioning her, asking her all kinds of questions. It would be wonderful.

You know, she made all of these phone calls. A couple of phone calls, she didn`t sound nervous. She didn`t sound upset. For God sakes, she was sharing a bedroom with this guy for ten years. She was gardening. I hear now she`s doing the lawn. She`s doing everything. So again, you really -- we could have a field day cross-examining her.

GRACE: Oh, yes.

Richard Herman, also a veteran defense attorney, just like Michelle. Well, Richard, they certainly made it past the seven-year itch. That`s got to count for something, right?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Must be out in that chicken farm, Nancy. I don`t know, but...

GRACE: All that fresh air.

HERMAN: It`s worse than that. This guy, I`m told, was on the death bed, having a heart problem, on the verge of a heart attack and dying. And she nursed him back to health. She must have had 10,000 opportunities to get back home.

And I would like to see Mr. Wampler say with a straight face he`s not going to charge her as an aider and abettor.

GRACE: Oh, man, all I can say is, that poor warden.

You know, the warden -- Ed Lavandera, I have got to go to break. But the warden did not remarry. He hired a private eye to try to find his wife. She left behind two daughters, two little girls. I think they were about eight-years-old at the time.

Elizabeth, do you have that graph of what one of the little girls -- oh, she is pulling it up.

Hold on, Ed. When you see this, your heart`s going to break. We`ve been kicking this around jokingly.

Do you have that yet, Elizabeth? These two girls left when they were young. "Dear Santa, do not bring me a present. I just want my mom back."

So while we`re all kidding about the ludicrous theory of Stockholm Syndrome, these two girls were the ones that suffered. They`ve grown up without a mom, their dad looking desperately for his wife. She shacked up on a chicken ranch with a killer.

OK, quick break. To "Trial Tracking": One of America`s best-known lawyers, Johnnie Cochran, Johnnie laid to rest today. He passed away last week from an inoperable brain tumor. His L.A. funeral attended by the famous and the infamous alike, O.J. Simpson, Michael Jackson, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. Cochran, a friend and a colleague, he and I started our careers together on air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNIE COCHRAN, LATE DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re saying to you, look, we have problems here.

GRACE: Maybe the DNA was not as strong as he wished, but when you get a one in a hundred match-up as opposed to one in a million, and you combine that match-up...

COCHRAN: Who says you`re going to get that?

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. And you combine that to all the other circumstantial evidence you have, you might have a pretty good case.

COCHRAN: That`s wishful thinking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Johnnie Cochran laid to rest today. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Secret audiotapes emerge in the Michael Jackson trial. Last witness on the stand? Jackson`s former maid, who claimed under oath she saw Jackson in the shower. He wasn`t alone. She says a little boy was in there with him.

Tonight, in L.A., from "The Insider," Ed Harris.

But first, to "Celebrity Justice" correspondent, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, bring me up-to-date, friend.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Well, you were talking about tapes, Nancy. And there are these tapes now on the Internet. There is a Phoenix businessman who`s brokering these tapes.

So I called him up. He actually hung up on me, but he referred me to his website. And there`s three audiotapes playing on the Internet that you can hear purportedly of Michael Jackson talking to a young boy from the `80s. It does sound like Michael Jackson. He`s talking about intimate details of his life.

We don`t know if it`s authentic. But it certainly makes sense that it might be because we know for years that he loves to call boys and talk on the phone. Supposedly, there are eight hours of tapes. And at one point, supposedly, he says he was a virgin until the age of 32. Now, we know he married Lisa Marie Presley after that age. So who knows? It`s possible that Michael Jackson was a virgin until he was 32.

GRACE: He would have thunk whether Michael Jackson is a virgin or not would be a topic of discussion? But thank you, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse. She`s been on the case from the get-go.

Art Harris is with us tonight on an entirely different set of tapes. Art Harris, explain.

ART HARRIS, "THE INSIDER": These are tapes of the 13-year-old victim from 1993 talking to a psychiatrist who was hired by his lawyer at the time, Larry Feldman, to vet his story, to see if he was telling the truth. And this man sat down with him for hours. There was a videotape made. And a family member made an audiotape of that videotape. And I got them from him.

They are very, very compelling. You listen to this voice of a 13- year-old boy telling about his relationship with Michael Jackson, his alleged seduction, how it graduated from a lot of the things we`re hearing from the stand today, from playfulness to a peck on the cheek, to hugs, to trips and lavish presents for parents and his mother, and some very disturbing allegations, very similar to the police affidavit that I have seen and that has been published on Smoking Gun by this 13-year-old former alleged victim.

GRACE: Elizabeth, can you pull up the "Kiss" screen, the second graph we have of Art`s tapes?

"By the way, did he say to you that you should never talk to anybody?

Accuser: He said that this, that we had a little box. This was a secret. And it`s a box that only him and I could share."

I`m sorry. Elizabeth, I was right. You went out of order. Could you put that up quickly for me?

The therapist states, "What were the two kinds of kisses? What kind of kiss was it?" "Just a peck on the cheek."

"Therapist: And then what happened?

"Boy: And so he continued as well as the hugging and then he graduated to kissing me on the lips."

OK, we`re going to bring you excerpts from these audiotapes. Art Harris from "The Insider" with us tonight. Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse with "Celebrity Justice." We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Italian officials are no longer allowing people to join the line to view the body of Pope John Paul II. Those already in line may have to wait as long as 24 hours just to spend a few seconds (UNINTELLIGIBLE) The Vatican says between 15,000 and 18,000 mourners have filed past the body each hour.

Several people have been injured and some two dozen homes destroyed after several tornadoes touched down in Mississippi. Governor Haley Barbour has declared a state of emergency. Meteorologists believe the storm front could be headed for parts of Alabama, Tennessee and Florida.

Well, ever so slowly, NASA is moving its Space Shuttle Discovery to a launch pad. The rollout was delayed briefly as engineers examined a small crack in the foam that insulates the external fuel tank. NASA says the shuttle can fly, despite that flaw, though. Discovery is scheduled to launch in May. It will be the first shuttle flight since the Columbia disaster in 2003.

And that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER ACCUSED OF MOLESTATION: We have guest units, but whenever kids come here, they always want to stay with me. They never want to stay in the guest -- and I have never invited them in my room. They always just want to stay. They say, "Can I stay with you tonight?" And I go, "If it`s OK with your parents, yes, you can."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from the ABC version of the Martin Bashir documentary. That was shown to the Jackson jury.

To Michelle Suskauer, after the jury have seen that, the creep factor is way off the chart in the courtroom.

SUSKAUER: It is. You know, that`s some tough information. Obviously, Michael Jackson is his own worst enemy here. But again, you know, that`s just a videotape, an interview. And certainly the prosecution is going to say, "Hey, listen, we don`t even need Michael Jackson to testify here, because we have this tape."

GRACE: Let me go back to Art Harris. Art Harris is describing some newly revealed audiotapes between one of Jackson`s molestation accusers and his therapist.

Let`s go, Elizabeth, if you don`t mind, to the cry. Young boy says, "It`s not that easy. Jackson would cry. He would say, `You don`t love me anymore.`"

That is such a typical mode, Art, of guilting out a molestation victim.

ART HARRIS, "THE INSIDER": Nancy, these other alleged victims have told police I have interviewed from way back from the `93 case that this was a pattern Jackson had of playing one boy off against the other, allegedly, saying, "So and so likes me more than you do. He`ll let me do this, and he`ll let me do that. You must not love me."

And it`s a fascinating window into what the prosecution is trying to prove on this tape. The boy says he used his overwhelmingness -- that`s a word he used -- his adulthood to manipulate me into doing things. And I believed him. I trusted him. After all, he was Michael Jackson.

GRACE: Let me go to Dr. Patricia Saunders. Doctor, is it normal to tape therapy sessions?

SAUNDERS: No, it`s not. And you need written consent to do it. How somebody got a hold of these tapes is really of concern to me. If I were Dr. Katz, I would be hopping up and down with an ethics book in one hand and a law book in the other.

GRACE: So, Art, how`d you get your mitts on these tapes, friend?

HARRIS: Time out. Time out. Time out. These are not therapy tapes.

GRACE: Oh, thank you.

HARRIS: These were tapes made by a therapist who was hired by a lawyer for this young boy and his family, who was trying to vet his story. He was not in the role of a therapist. And therefore, it was videotaped. And then a family member audiotaped it for a book he was writing. And so it is not in the context of a session.

GRACE: It was a therapist with the boy?

HARRIS: It was a therapist, not Dr. Katz, someone in New York, who is now dead, Richard Gardner. And he was an expert at the time, an expert at suppressed memories. And he is usually, back then, he was used by criminal defense lawyers to attack cases brought against their clients.

GRACE: OK. So, Art, I understand that this is the boy with a therapist. And it became public because they were working -- someone was working on a book?

HARRIS: Yes, you know his uncle...

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: ... who was on your show before, wrote his book, and used lots of notes no one has access to and was also given these tapes by his brother, the father. And he was allowed to...

GRACE: But, Art, that doesn`t mean it wasn`t a therapy session. A kid is talking to a therapist. That`s a therapy session. Why the dad gave it away, now, that`s anybody`s guess.

HARRIS: Well, it was arguably not a therapist. It was not the boy`s therapist. It was someone who was hired by the lawyer. So you know, you can split hairs however you want.

GRACE: OK. I get it. I get it. I get it.

You know what? Once again, we need a shrink. Dr. Saunders, it just seems to me the law and psychology and psychiatry are very twisted together tonight. Doctor, even if someone is writing a book and you decide, rightly or wrongly, to take your kid to a therapist, then use all that for the book.

SAUNDERS: But you have to get written consent to do that, even if it`s with the knowledge that this might be made public. They can`t do it. They can`t release the information without written consent.

GRACE: Elizabeth, let`s put up the mom`s screen if we could.

"Therapist: Do you think any trust of your mother has been affected?

Boy: Well, not because she, as people would say, she tried to pimp me out. More because of maybe I tried to tell her one time and she didn`t believe me."

To defense attorney Richard Herman, Richard, I know you have got a million defenses in your pocket for Michael Jackson, but haven`t you heard over and over in court where a kid says, "I told someone. They didn`t believe me"?

HERMAN: Well, Nancy, you know, if this interview was given to the police or if this interview was given to Los Angeles child protective services, I would put more stake into it. This is part of the plaintiff`s personal injury team. This just screams out money. They`re writing books. They`re releasing this. It`s unbelievable what`s going on here, Nancy. It`s all about money. Come on.

GRACE: What about it, Jane Velez-Mitchell?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Well, we`re going to hear from the mother of this `93 accuser in the next coming days, possibly as soon as tomorrow. So we`re going to hear on the stand what she has to say about all of this.

I can tell you that, reading a fascinating biography of Michael Jackson, a published report that when this woman first noticed her son and Michael Jackson on sleepovers, she confronted, allegedly, Michael Jackson, and he began to cry.

So the theme of tears used for manipulation is certainly one that we`ve heard over and over through the years as well as secrets. The 24- year-old accuser who took the stand earlier this week and spoke of how Michael Jackson allegedly molested him three times said Michael Jackson gave him money and told him, "Don`t tell your mom." So secrets another common theme.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Jane Velez-Mitchell, from the tapes we have gotten through Art Harris.

Can you put up "Lying," the graph of "Lying"? We`ve titled some of these.

The young boy says, "At the time, the things Michael was doing to me, they didn`t affect me. Like I didn`t think anything was totally wrong with what he was doing since he was my friend. And he kept telling me he would never hurt me. But presently, I see that he was obviously lying."

Elizabeth, can we go straight to the next one, "Power"? The young boy says, referring to Michael Jackson, "He`s using his power, his experience, his age, his overwhelmingness to get what he wants." That`s a statement Art told us about earlier.

So Art Harris, will any of this ever come into trial before this jury?

HARRIS: If this boy, now a grown man, young man, winds up testifying, this would be more than hearsay. It could be entered. It`s a similar story he has told to the L.A. police detectives.

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: It`s a similar story he has said in his affidavit. And it`s fascinating to hear the voice, very, very compelling. Like Jane said, this is part of a pattern the prosecution hopes the jury will understand...

GRACE: Yes.

HARRIS: ... of shared secrets that often sexual predators will try to establish with a victim.

GRACE: ... a victim.

HARRIS: So that they will bond and move away from their parents to a relationship with them.

GRACE: Well, you know what`s interesting, Jane Velez-Mitchell? These tapes likely will never come in, because we know this accuser, the `93 accuser, is not taking the stand. So they certainly won`t come in on any type of cross-examination.

Now, Jane, what do you think will be brought in to establish the `93 accuser`s case against Jackson if he`s not coming to court?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, his mom is going to tell the story. And she has got a very compelling story to tell.

And she may want closure. She may want to wipe the slate clean and maybe try to ingratiate herself into her son`s life again. Apparently, they haven`t spoken for many, many years. She may be plagued by guilt. Why didn`t she do something?

We`ve talked about this overwhelmingness of Michael Jackson, and I see it everyday when he goes in and out of court. You can talk about him being a freak all you want. He has an incredible level of charisma.

In fact, people who are not on his side, reporters who clearly have a pro-prosecution stance, if he locks eyes with them and answers their question, they are giddy, like youngsters. "Oh, he looked at me. He looked at me. He locked eyes with me."

The charisma that Michael Jackson has is palpable when you see him come in and out of court. So obviously, he is able to influence not only children, but their parents, and not just with jewels and money that he has bestowed, but with his personality. His ability to persuade is very clear. Whether he is guilty or innocent, he clearly has a charisma and an ability to get people to do what he wants to.

GRACE: Jane Velez-Mitchell, we saw Robert Blake, a B-list celeb, work that charisma on a jury, much less someone who is out of the world with popularity. I mean he literally is the king of pop.

Jane Velez-Mitchell at the courthouse, Art Harris with "Insider." Our panel stays.

We are switching gears, our trial files, to this murder case of Alejandro Avila. You`ll be surprised to learn a jury let him walk shortly before Samantha Runnion was murdered on double charges of child molestation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and your support from every corner of the Earth. I love the community of Santa Maria very much. It`s my community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN RUNNION, SAMANTHA RUNNION`S MOTHER: That`s all I could say was, why do you hurt them? Why do you -- you know, if you`re sick, you`re sick. But why do you have to hurt them, you know? To take your own illness out, to not realize what a sickness it is, and to hurt children, to realize that this is your problem, not a baby`s, that these are human beings who have histories, who have personalities, that have potential that you can never imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: On trial right now in a California courtroom, Alejandro Avila. Avila was released, acquitted by a jury shortly before Samantha Runnion`s kidnap, rape and murder.

Joining me right now, Larry Welborn from the Orange County Register. He is a reporter.

What`s the latest, Larry?

LARRY WELBORN, ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER: Well, the prosecution rested yesterday after eight days of testimony. The defense is supposed to begin presenting evidence beginning on Monday.

GRACE: What was the latest evidence?

WELBORN: The latest evidence the prosecution was entered that Mr. Avila had 20 images of child pornography on his computer at home, 20 videos and links to several different child pornography Web sites.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting to me? And I`m going to throw this one to Michelle Suskauer. At the first trial of Alejandro Avila, the defense attorney, John Pozza, told the jury police planted the child porn. And the jury bought it.

SUSKAUER: Well, you know, first of all, again, that is a separate case. And I know that there were two alleged victims, two nine-year-olds, who I believe their testimony was allowed in, in this case. It`s a separate case.

And you know, obviously, it`s the worst -- it`s a defense lawyer, judge`s and prosecutor`s worst nightmare for something like this to happen again. But that was a separate case. And a jury -- we can`t be unfair to the jury. The jury listened to that, and the jury certainly could not pre- judge that this was going to possibly happen again. So we have to look at that case in a separate situation.

GRACE: Well, you may think so, Michelle. I don`t. I think the jury screwed it up but good. They let this guy off, they chose to disbelieve two little girls, who had basically the same story about molestation, they chose to disbelieve them and believe that cops would plant child porn and let this guy go. Take a listen to his defense lawyer, John Pozza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You accused them of being coached, didn`t you? I can see it right here in black and white.

JOHN POZZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR ALEJANDRO AVILA: Well, absolutely. That was absolutely one of our defenses. And I have an ethical obligation to zealously represent my clients. And that`s what I do. And I don`t have a problem looking at myself in the mirror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: John Pozza speaking out on Larry King one night when I was on the panel.

Dr. Patricia Saunders, how common are stranger abductions?

SAUNDERS: They`re not that common, Nancy. Only about 1 percent of children who are abducted are sexually assaulted and murdered, probably about an eighth of all abductions are by strangers.

GRACE: When it`s stranger abduction, is the child usually let go or murdered?

SAUNDERS: Yes, in 90 percent of them, they`re sexually assaulted and they`re let go. About 1 or 2 percent are actually murdered.

GRACE: To Tony Rackauckas, the Orange County district attorney, Tony, the child porn the jury heard today, was it from the old case where he was acquitted or the current case?

TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, it was from both. And basically, he has an inordinate interest in sexual matters with children. And of course, that`s so very well-demonstrated by all that child porn.

GRACE: I know that you had DNA evidence in this case, Tony.

RACKAUCKAS: Yes.

GRACE: What was it?

RACKAUCKAS: Well, we had DNA evidence that was inside the car, on his center console and on the door pole and the door handle. And of course, it was consistent with teardrops from the victim.

GRACE: Oh.

RACKAUCKAS: And I mean, it`s just a very sad thing, but very, very clear evidence that she was in his car. And we also have his DNA from under her fingernails.

GRACE: Richard Herman, I know that, of course, I`ve never been a defense lawyer, but it must be horrible to realize the guy you got off then went on to commit a murder of a little girl. Evidence that you got suppressed in the earlier trial reared its ugly head, child porn in the next trial.

HERMAN: Nancy, it`s gut-wrenching. And there is no answer for that. We do the best we can to defend our clients within the boundaries of the law. And it`s just -- this is the absolute worst nightmare situation. And with respect to this case, the fact that his DNA was found under her nails, it`s absolutely devastating, just devastating.

GRACE: Michelle Suskauer, you were saying something earlier when we went to a bite. What were you saying, dear?

SUSKAUER: I think I was saying that, you know, each case has to be done individually. And you know, again, we can`t fault that first jury.

GRACE: OK, you know what, Michelle?

SUSKAUER: You know what, Nancy? We were not sitting and listening to that evidence. It`s very easy to be a quarterback and to look at the case and say, "How could they do that?"

And I`m sure that jury -- I`m sure everyone who`s sitting on that jury is feeling absolutely awful. But again, that jury listened to that evidence, and we can`t second guess that jury. They sat in that courtroom and...

GRACE: Maybe you can`t, but when I look at these videos of Samantha Runnion, I can.

Quick break, to "Trial Tracking": Just weeks after the body of nine- year-old Jessica Lunsford was found buried across the street from the Florida home where she lived with her grandparents, her alleged murderer enters a plea of -- hold on -- not guilty. But catch this: Couey already confessed. Convicted sex offender, career criminal, John Evander Couey, will now stand trial for Jessica`s murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK LUNSFORD, FATHER OF JESSICA LUNSFORD: I think they got him here real quickly. And we need to prosecute him. And I need everybody`s support on pushing the death penalty upon this man. He is scum. And anybody that acts like him or even resembles him is scum. And you do not deserve to be amongst us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Of course, John Evander Couey had a rap sheet a mile long. You just heard a bite from Jessie`s father, Mark Lunsford. He begged for weeks for people to help him find his daughter. If convicted, prosecutors promise Couey -- he`ll have his own cell on Florida`s death row.

Local news next for some of you. We will be right back. Remember, live coverage of the Michael Jackson trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments." Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a look at 45-year-old Harry Hicks, fatally attacked while simply riding his bicycle, Modesto, California.

If you have any info on Harry Hicks, please call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation toll-free, 888-813-8389. Please, help us.

Before we sign off, I want to go back to my guests regarding the Samantha Runnion story. I`ll never forget when Samantha went missing.

To the prosecutor, Tony Rackauckas, what is next in the case?

RACKAUCKAS: Well, next, of course, is the defense case. We`ll be seeing what it is they have to offer. And we`re looking very much forward to the penalty phase. We`re seeking the death penalty, as you know, in the case. This is a crime that was done with horrible, unimaginable cruelty. And it`s such a nightmare.

GRACE: Even the way she was found, Tony, the little girl was found having been raped and left naked, posed in a suggestive manor out in the open. I`ll never forget when Sheriff Carona announced that.

RACKAUCKAS: That`s correct. It`s just so offensive, it`s unbelievable.

GRACE: You know, I have got to go back to you very quickly, Dr. Saunders. That, in itself, to me, is very indicative of Alejandro Avila`s frame of mind, the way he left her, like trash on the side of the road.

SAUNDERS: Exactly. Well, the sadistic psychopath pedophile, thank goodness, is very rare. But they should not be walking among us, Nancy.

GRACE: Beautifully put.

Oh, thank you, Elizabeth. This is a shot of Samantha. There is Erin, her mom. Erin specifically warned her about talking to strangers. I have seen this one a million times of Samantha on video.

When her mom tried to warn her about strangers, she had a poster of Hercules over her bed and said, "Mom, I`m like Hercules. I`ll outrun them."

I want to thank all my guests tonight, but my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. I`ll see you right here tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Erica Hill with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

President Bush was among one of the first world leaders to pay homage to Pope John Paul II today. He arrived at St. Peter`s Basilica with the rest of the U.S. delegation which included his father, former President Clinton, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as well as the first lady, Mrs. Bush.

Outside, a long line of mourners still waiting to see the Pope`s body. The Pope`s funeral will be held on Friday.

Prince Rainier of Monaco died today of heart, lung and kidney failure. The 81-year-old monarch had been in the hospital for several weeks. Americans were introduced to him when he married movie star Grace Kelly in 1956.

And in the U.S., violent storms pounding parts of Mississippi and Louisiana. A tornado touched down in Brandon, Mississippi, destroying or damaging more than two dozen homes. It also blew the roof off a school. Students were moved to safety before the tornado struck.

We`ll have more on those stories and the rest of the day`s headlines. Please join Thomas Roberts and me for "PRIME NEWS TONIGHT" next.

END