Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Pilgrims in Mourning; Interview With Cardinal Edward Egan; Johnnie Cochran Funeral

Aired April 07, 2005 - 07:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien. We're coming to you from New York City and also Vatican City this morning.
Bill -- good morning.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Soledad. And welcome back to Vatican City as our coverage continues here. I'm Bill Hemmer.

And as we continue to look at the lines down on the street, we can tell you this: They were supposed to be cut off late last night. The Vatican said at 10:00 local time the mourners would be turned away. That, however, has not come to pass. In fact, a short time ago, the line was supposed to be cut off, but still we're finding people getting in line, jumping the queue a little bit. But it's not bothering anyone either.

Now, the lines are shorter today. The wait is shorter as well as we worked our way toward the end of that line.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER (voice over): They're still shuffling along the cobblestone pavement, these people among the last of millions to say good-bye.

This couple came from Germany.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a special feeling. I can't explain it.

HEMMER (on camera): The lines are growing thin today. And by tomorrow, Friday, this river of humanity will run dry.

(voice over): The outpouring of respect has been stunning. More mourners are arriving from the pope's home country of Poland. One city official expects 1.5 million Poles by Friday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For our nation, especially for our nation, there is no way to express the meaning of the pope.

HEMMER: Another group came with camping gear. They say they'll sleep on the street until Friday's funeral, and don't mind for a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a few pleasures, because, you know, just the that that we are all together there. There's a feeling of togetherness among us, you know, not only, you know, the Poles, but all the people of the Catholic faith.

HEMMER: Three college students from California caught a late- night train from Florence. They say missing this would leave their Italian education incomplete.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were kind of not sure if we were going to make it in today, but we're taking the chance to go in and see him.

HEMMER: So many turned out this week, Italian officials broadcast warnings for people not to join the huge line. Still, though, they come.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't just a pope. I think he had something extra that possibly, well, obviously has touched so many people, whether you're Catholic or not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: And there was another text message sent out earlier today, saying St. Peter's full, to make sure that people do not come by throughout the afternoon here. In about eight hours, the church closes, and then St. Peter's will be cleaned, and also the square is set to be cleaned as well in preparation for the funeral tomorrow. A security sweep then will take place overnight tonight getting ready for all of the dignitaries, the U.S. president as well, who have gathered here in Rome, Italy.

We are waiting more on the will that could come at any moment now from the Vatican. And when that happens, we'll bring it to you.

In the meantime, though, Edward Cardinal Egan is from the city of New York. And he is my guest now high above the Vatican as well.

Good afternoon to you.

CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK: Good afternoon, Bill. Thank you for having me.

HEMMER: Well, thank you for making time, too. Five -- well, if the numbers are right through all of this, Rome officials say five million will pass through the Vatican over this week's time.

EGAN: It's incredible.

HEMMER: What do you make of that?

EGAN: There has never been anything like this. I've been in Rome for 23 years of my life, and I can say nothing like this has ever happened before. It's a greatest testament, a great testimony to the love that the world and especially this city has for John Paul II. I have been simply amazed.

I arrived yesterday and went right over to St. Peter's. And as I knelt there, I watched thousands stream by in two lines. And last night, after joining Mr. Bush, our president, I stayed for a while and saw the lines continue. Some people have been there, I'm told, Bill, for 12 and 15 hours waiting to get in.

And the city is packed. Really, it's hard to believe that the city can handle as many as it's handling. But Rome always does a very good job, and the Vatican has been simply outstanding in the way they have managed this whole event.

HEMMER: You have been here two days. Have you been able to consider how significant this page is in Catholic history?

EGAN: I think it's an extraordinary significant page in Catholic history. This man has been all over the world. This man has learned about communications and handled it magnificently. And I think that the world is responding. We are a world of communications, a world of travel, as you know far better than I. And he has been a big part of that for the last 27 years.

And I believe that there is also a tremendous respect for this man, for his holiness, his goodness, his willingness to meet with all and to extend a hand of friendship to all. And I think this is simply the response of the world.

HEMMER: You have about eight days before the conclave begins. Let me ask you a question about an area where you've never been before. What is the sense you get in the meetings you've had so far with the College of Cardinals?

EGAN: The sense I get is that there's a deep spirituality to all of this. It is all being seen as a part of our faith, as an expression of our religious commitment. It is not an election in the usual understanding of the words. This is a choice based on what we believe is best for the people of God and the entire world. And I find an atmosphere of deep spirituality, a total commitment and seriousness.

I was at a meeting this morning, and I think I can safely say that it was a prayer as well as a meeting for discussion.

HEMMER: When it comes to the U.S. church, as an American, how can the American church be energized with this decision?

EGAN: Well, I think the American church is quite energized. And this will, of course, create greater interest in what's happening here, thanks to CNN and the others who are doing such a good job. I believe that as the new face comes on the scene, we hear a new point of view or at least a new way of expressing it, that it will be a major opportunity for all of us to speak about the church in the United States, speak to our people, where they are in our parishes and in our dioceses.

HEMMER: One final question here. And, again, I appreciate your time. We should find out any moment now what's contained in the final will of Pope John Paul II.

EGAN: Yes. HEMMER: And the cardinals have had an opportunity already to see this. Will there be any surprises in there? I'm not asking you specifically, but will anything strike us?

EGAN: Well, I want to give you a very, very good example of saying nothing that I shouldn't say and just thanking you for having me, and congratulating you for asking me and hoping that you understand my answer. Thanks so very much.

HEMMER: You've done well and well-practiced, too. Cardinal Egan, thank you. Enjoy your time this week.

We want to let our viewers know, tomorrow morning we'll be on the air very early here from Italy, 3:00 a.m. Eastern Time is when our special coverage starts. After that, we'll have the funeral for you that may last well upwards of three hours, and the burial after that. Complete coverage live here from Italy, and the images should be stunning tomorrow.

Back to Rome in a moment. Here's Carol Costello back in New York City with the rest of the headlines there.

Carol -- good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I think Cardinal Egan handled you pretty well, Bill.

Good morning, everyone.

"Now in the News."

President Bush is in Rome, where he will attend Pope John Paul II's funeral. The president is joined by First Lady Laura Bush and his father, the former president Bush, paying their respects last night. Former President Clinton and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice are also part of the U.S. delegation attending tomorrow's services.

Crews in southern Afghanistan are looking for two people unaccounted for after a deadly helicopter crash. U.S. military sources say the Chinook helicopter went down some 100 miles southwest of Kabul, killing at least 16 people, most of them American forces. Severe weather is to blame. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has expressed condolences to the families of the victims.

White supremacist leader Matthew Hale has been sentenced to 40 years in prison. Prosecutors claimed his attempt to solicit the murder of U.S. District Judge Joan Lefkow was basically an act of terrorism. The sentencing comes less than a month after Lefkow's husband and mother were killed in an unrelated case.

And Scotland Yard says it has serious concerns about security just days before Prince Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles are set to walk down the aisle. The "Sun" newspaper, a British tabloid, claims one of its reporters was able to get inside Windsor Castle, posing as a delivery man with a box marked with the word "bomb" inside the van. That's right. Right in the back of that van was a box, and then on the top of the box they wrote "bomb" in big, black letters. The claim is now being investigated as final preparations are under way for Saturday's nuptials.

And by the way, CNN will have live coverage of the royal wedding this Saturday. That begins at 6:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

Back to you -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thanks.

Michael Jackson, Sean P. Diddy Combs, Stevie Wonder are just a few of the many celebrities who turned out for Johnnie Cochran's funeral on Wednesday in Los Angeles. But it was Reverend Al Sharpton who may have touched many people's hearts.

Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They came to say good-bye to Johnnie Cochran. Among them, celebrity friends, celebrity lawyers, politicians and celebrity clients, including Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson.

O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER COCHRAN CLIENT: Johnnie fought for his clients, no matter how popular or unpopular the cause was, or the verdict was.

STEVIE WONDER, ENTERTAINER: Johnnie, I'll never forget your laughter. I'll never forget your voice.

ROWLANDS: It wasn't just the rich and famous. There were also thousands of people from the Los Angeles community where Cochran lived. During the more than three-hour service, those who knew Cochran best took turns describing him as a tireless advocate for justice who touched thousands of lives.

GEROMINO PRATT, FORMER COCHRAN CLIENT: I salute Johnnie with all of the fervor, with all of the realness, of all of the brothers and sisters who are still in prison.

REV. AL SHARPTON: In all due respect to you, Brother Simpson, we didn't clap when the acquittal of Simpson came for O.J. We were clapping for Johnnie. We were clapping -- we were clapping, because for decades our brothers, our cousins, our uncles had to stand in the well with no one to stand up for them. And finally a black man came and said, "If it don't fit, you must acquit."

ROWLANDS: Johnnie Cochran died from a brain tumor at the age of 67.

TIFFANY COCHRAN EDWARDS, COCHRAN'S DAUGHTER: He was such a wonderful man. He was just wonderful. He meant everything to me. And, Dad, I know that you are the best-dressed man in heaven. JONATHAN COCHRAN, COCHRAN'S SON: Look at it now, it seems like he was taken too soon. But I think of it as he's on a big case, and for whatever reason, God needed a lawyer in heaven and said, "Call Johnnie Cochran."

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Our condolences, of course, go out to his family. The Cochran family is expected to have a memorial service in New York as well. And in the 9:00 hour, we're going to talk with Johnnie Cochran's good friend, the Reverend Al Sharpton. That's ahead.

First, though, a look at the weather.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, from Hawaii, some video of the dramatic rescue of a father and a daughter after a glider crashed. The two were found on Tuesday. They were hanging upside down in the glider as it perched on a mountain ridge in Oahu. Rescue workers were able to airlift the pair. They suffered only minor injuries, fortunately. The glider's pilot, though, was killed in that crash. And authorities are now investigating the cause of the accident.

Let's go back out to Bill Hemmer. He's in Vatican City this morning -- Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad.

Vatican City is so full of iconic imagery. Almost every corner is filled with special meaning for the faithful. In a moment, we'll take you on a special tour of that historic symbolism. That's next as our coverage continues live from the Vatican on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Back here at the Vatican, I want to show our viewers at home down on St. Peter's Square there, the thousands of chairs that have now been set up. That will be here until tomorrow morning when the funeral for Pope John Paul II is celebrated out in St. Peter's Square. And what a history this square has, too. The Vatican is only 1.2 square miles. It's tiny here, but it is so grand in so many ways.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER (voice over): Among the hundred acres of Vatican City, there might be a million stories of significance and symbolism. Our Vatican expert, John Allen, is straddling the border.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I have one foot in one sovereign state, which is the Republic of Italy, and another in the world's smallest sovereign state, which is the Holy See.

HEMMER: The Renaissance architect Bernini had a plan about 350 years ago.

ALLEN: His idea was that the Basilica was sort of the head of a body, and those great colonnades were like arms reaching out to gather in all of humanity.

HEMMER (on camera): So, when the people are gathered here in St. Peter's Square, it's like the children of God coming together?

ALLEN: That's right. The arms of God are reaching in to gather his children.

HEMMER (voice over): And high above those colonnades stand 140 statues of Catholic saints. As the story goes, when John Paul II became pope, he stood in the square and asked, "Where are the women?" Shortly, a fresco of the Virgin Mary was placed high above the cobblestone pavement.

And when an assassin tried to kill him 24 years ago in this square, the pontiff said the Virgin Mary steered the bullet off course.

In the square center stands an Egyptian obelisk. According to tradition, this is the last thing St. Peter saw when he was crucified upside down here. Four stories up, the window of the pope's bedroom is still shuttered.

ALLEN: The window is closed when the pope is not there, opened when he is. And the lighting, the lighting indicates there is activity going on in the papal apartment. So, of course, now there is no pope, so there is no activity.

HEMMER: When there's a new pope, the window will open again.

And the main doors to the world's largest church are open. That happens only once every 50 years and when a pope finishes his work here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And we are literally just scratching the surface.

Among the pilgrims headed to Rome, there is a very large number from the pope's native country of Poland. Pilgrims from the hometown of Wadowice in southern Poland are bringing with them a special box of soil they hope to have buried with the pope.

The Polish president and the prime minister are also scheduled to attend the service on Friday, as well as the former president and Solidarity leader, Lech Walesa. Another 5,000 Poles are expected to arrive in Rome today on six special trains from Warsaw and Krakow. They are here in great numbers, too. Earlier in the week, it was all Italians, and now we're seeing so many more Poles arrive.

We are awaiting the will. We'll have it for you when we get it here at the Vatican -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill, thanks.

Ahead this morning, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business." Are free iPods an important part of higher education? We'll explain ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Free iPods for all incoming freshmen? Not so fast says one university. And beer companies swallowing some not so sour grapes.

With those stories, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Happy to do the college and beer report this morning. Always two good subjects.

This one is too good to last. Last year at Duke University, every single incoming freshman received an iPod, courtesy of the university. The university said they would be used in classes to record lectures, to be used in Journalism School and that sort of thing. Well, guess what? They really weren't.

And this year, the school is backtracking and only giving it to incoming freshmen in courses where they will be used. iPods are for listening to tunes, you know. One question here...

O'BRIEN: I didn't know you could record.

SERWER: No, I found out you can actually. We were just investigating that. And one freshman at "USA Today," Daniel Riley (ph), Daniel Riley (ph) says, I only really listened -- used it to listen to music. And then he said he was too busy to listen to lectures on his iPod. There are parties to go to, Daniel, I'm sure, down at Duke.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: At Duke.

SERWER: Yes, exactly.

Let's talk about Anheuser-Busch very quickly here. Of course, they are the producer of Budweiser and other libations such as Michelob. We're getting towards the weekend, in fact.

Yesterday -- weekends for Michelob. You remember.

O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, I do.

SERWER: Yes. Yesterday, the stock slipped 4 percent, because they said beer sales are weakening at the company. A revived Miller Brewing is part of the reason. The other reason is Americans are drinking more and more wine relative to beer. And you want to know the shape of things to come in this business. Today, Anheuser-Busch is expected to announce a watermelon-spiked Bacardi Silver malt beverage. And to think I could have had a V8.

O'BRIEN: A watermelon spiked Bacardi...

SERWER: Yes. Malt beverage thing-a-majigee (ph).

O'BRIEN: That doesn't sound...

SERWER: I think we're too old. We're too old.

O'BRIEN: ... tasty.

SERWER: That's what young people are drinking today, and that's what's happening.

O'BRIEN: Those young people, that's what they're drinking.

SERWER: Yes, I know. It sounds very ancient of us -- or me.

O'BRIEN: All right, thanks, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: The "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: The "Question of the Day." They're at it down there in Florida again. Lawmakers now have approved a bill that allows a gun owner to shoot an attacker at home or in a public place in self- defense. It's sponsored by the NRA. The so-called Stand Your Ground bill no longer requires a person to retreat before defending themselves. If at home, you can now shoot an intruder whether or not that intruder had any intent to harm.

Similar laws are on the books in Oklahoma and Colorado. However, Florida is the first to extend the law into public spaces. Any place that you have a right to be, you have a right to defend yourself against a perceived felonious assault.

The question is: Should it be legal for Florida residents to open fire when they perceive a threat?

John in Georgia writes: "Yes, with the understanding that actions can lead to legal proceedings in court. People need the constitutional right to bear arms and protect themselves from hoodlums."

Buck in Virginia writes: "In the lexicon of the Bush family, this is called a pre-emptive strike. And if it was good enough for W, then it's going to be great for little brother Jeb."

Dean in New Jersey: "I don't know about anybody else, but if my life is threatened, I'm going to take appropriate action regardless of what the law says. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Brenda in Oregon: "No. Since Florida has a large population of older and, dare I say, sight-impaired citizens, I don't think this would fly." And Dana in Maryland writes: "Thank god someone is finally standing up for the rights of the honest citizen. This new legislation makes a lot more sense than having to wait until a person is robbed, raped, shot, killed, et cetera, and then calling the police."

So there.

SERWER: Remember the Bernie Goetz case in New York...

CAFFERTY: Sure.

SERWER: ... where a guy perceived that people were attacking him on the subway and shot them. And you remember how that turned out.

CAFFERTY: Did he go to prison for a short time?

O'BRIEN: He sure did.

SERWER: He did.

CAFFERTY: But it was on a gun charge.

SERWER: Right, exactly.

CAFFERTY: He was not convicted of shooting those guys.

SERWER: Right, right.

CAFFERTY: He was convicted of carrying an unlicensed firearm.

SERWER: It's very interesting and controversial stuff.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Yes, really the issue is the perceived part

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Because, of course, that's what the big fight over is in court at the end of the day.

All right, Jack, thanks.

In a moment, the life and loves of Jane Fonda, from the controversy over Vietnam-era protests to her famous husbands' infidelities. Fonda tells all in her new autobiography. She's going to join us live a little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.


Aired April 7, 2005 - 07:29   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien. We're coming to you from New York City and also Vatican City this morning.
Bill -- good morning.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Soledad. And welcome back to Vatican City as our coverage continues here. I'm Bill Hemmer.

And as we continue to look at the lines down on the street, we can tell you this: They were supposed to be cut off late last night. The Vatican said at 10:00 local time the mourners would be turned away. That, however, has not come to pass. In fact, a short time ago, the line was supposed to be cut off, but still we're finding people getting in line, jumping the queue a little bit. But it's not bothering anyone either.

Now, the lines are shorter today. The wait is shorter as well as we worked our way toward the end of that line.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER (voice over): They're still shuffling along the cobblestone pavement, these people among the last of millions to say good-bye.

This couple came from Germany.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a special feeling. I can't explain it.

HEMMER (on camera): The lines are growing thin today. And by tomorrow, Friday, this river of humanity will run dry.

(voice over): The outpouring of respect has been stunning. More mourners are arriving from the pope's home country of Poland. One city official expects 1.5 million Poles by Friday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For our nation, especially for our nation, there is no way to express the meaning of the pope.

HEMMER: Another group came with camping gear. They say they'll sleep on the street until Friday's funeral, and don't mind for a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a few pleasures, because, you know, just the that that we are all together there. There's a feeling of togetherness among us, you know, not only, you know, the Poles, but all the people of the Catholic faith.

HEMMER: Three college students from California caught a late- night train from Florence. They say missing this would leave their Italian education incomplete.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were kind of not sure if we were going to make it in today, but we're taking the chance to go in and see him.

HEMMER: So many turned out this week, Italian officials broadcast warnings for people not to join the huge line. Still, though, they come.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't just a pope. I think he had something extra that possibly, well, obviously has touched so many people, whether you're Catholic or not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: And there was another text message sent out earlier today, saying St. Peter's full, to make sure that people do not come by throughout the afternoon here. In about eight hours, the church closes, and then St. Peter's will be cleaned, and also the square is set to be cleaned as well in preparation for the funeral tomorrow. A security sweep then will take place overnight tonight getting ready for all of the dignitaries, the U.S. president as well, who have gathered here in Rome, Italy.

We are waiting more on the will that could come at any moment now from the Vatican. And when that happens, we'll bring it to you.

In the meantime, though, Edward Cardinal Egan is from the city of New York. And he is my guest now high above the Vatican as well.

Good afternoon to you.

CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK: Good afternoon, Bill. Thank you for having me.

HEMMER: Well, thank you for making time, too. Five -- well, if the numbers are right through all of this, Rome officials say five million will pass through the Vatican over this week's time.

EGAN: It's incredible.

HEMMER: What do you make of that?

EGAN: There has never been anything like this. I've been in Rome for 23 years of my life, and I can say nothing like this has ever happened before. It's a greatest testament, a great testimony to the love that the world and especially this city has for John Paul II. I have been simply amazed.

I arrived yesterday and went right over to St. Peter's. And as I knelt there, I watched thousands stream by in two lines. And last night, after joining Mr. Bush, our president, I stayed for a while and saw the lines continue. Some people have been there, I'm told, Bill, for 12 and 15 hours waiting to get in.

And the city is packed. Really, it's hard to believe that the city can handle as many as it's handling. But Rome always does a very good job, and the Vatican has been simply outstanding in the way they have managed this whole event.

HEMMER: You have been here two days. Have you been able to consider how significant this page is in Catholic history?

EGAN: I think it's an extraordinary significant page in Catholic history. This man has been all over the world. This man has learned about communications and handled it magnificently. And I think that the world is responding. We are a world of communications, a world of travel, as you know far better than I. And he has been a big part of that for the last 27 years.

And I believe that there is also a tremendous respect for this man, for his holiness, his goodness, his willingness to meet with all and to extend a hand of friendship to all. And I think this is simply the response of the world.

HEMMER: You have about eight days before the conclave begins. Let me ask you a question about an area where you've never been before. What is the sense you get in the meetings you've had so far with the College of Cardinals?

EGAN: The sense I get is that there's a deep spirituality to all of this. It is all being seen as a part of our faith, as an expression of our religious commitment. It is not an election in the usual understanding of the words. This is a choice based on what we believe is best for the people of God and the entire world. And I find an atmosphere of deep spirituality, a total commitment and seriousness.

I was at a meeting this morning, and I think I can safely say that it was a prayer as well as a meeting for discussion.

HEMMER: When it comes to the U.S. church, as an American, how can the American church be energized with this decision?

EGAN: Well, I think the American church is quite energized. And this will, of course, create greater interest in what's happening here, thanks to CNN and the others who are doing such a good job. I believe that as the new face comes on the scene, we hear a new point of view or at least a new way of expressing it, that it will be a major opportunity for all of us to speak about the church in the United States, speak to our people, where they are in our parishes and in our dioceses.

HEMMER: One final question here. And, again, I appreciate your time. We should find out any moment now what's contained in the final will of Pope John Paul II.

EGAN: Yes. HEMMER: And the cardinals have had an opportunity already to see this. Will there be any surprises in there? I'm not asking you specifically, but will anything strike us?

EGAN: Well, I want to give you a very, very good example of saying nothing that I shouldn't say and just thanking you for having me, and congratulating you for asking me and hoping that you understand my answer. Thanks so very much.

HEMMER: You've done well and well-practiced, too. Cardinal Egan, thank you. Enjoy your time this week.

We want to let our viewers know, tomorrow morning we'll be on the air very early here from Italy, 3:00 a.m. Eastern Time is when our special coverage starts. After that, we'll have the funeral for you that may last well upwards of three hours, and the burial after that. Complete coverage live here from Italy, and the images should be stunning tomorrow.

Back to Rome in a moment. Here's Carol Costello back in New York City with the rest of the headlines there.

Carol -- good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I think Cardinal Egan handled you pretty well, Bill.

Good morning, everyone.

"Now in the News."

President Bush is in Rome, where he will attend Pope John Paul II's funeral. The president is joined by First Lady Laura Bush and his father, the former president Bush, paying their respects last night. Former President Clinton and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice are also part of the U.S. delegation attending tomorrow's services.

Crews in southern Afghanistan are looking for two people unaccounted for after a deadly helicopter crash. U.S. military sources say the Chinook helicopter went down some 100 miles southwest of Kabul, killing at least 16 people, most of them American forces. Severe weather is to blame. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has expressed condolences to the families of the victims.

White supremacist leader Matthew Hale has been sentenced to 40 years in prison. Prosecutors claimed his attempt to solicit the murder of U.S. District Judge Joan Lefkow was basically an act of terrorism. The sentencing comes less than a month after Lefkow's husband and mother were killed in an unrelated case.

And Scotland Yard says it has serious concerns about security just days before Prince Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles are set to walk down the aisle. The "Sun" newspaper, a British tabloid, claims one of its reporters was able to get inside Windsor Castle, posing as a delivery man with a box marked with the word "bomb" inside the van. That's right. Right in the back of that van was a box, and then on the top of the box they wrote "bomb" in big, black letters. The claim is now being investigated as final preparations are under way for Saturday's nuptials.

And by the way, CNN will have live coverage of the royal wedding this Saturday. That begins at 6:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

Back to you -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, thanks.

Michael Jackson, Sean P. Diddy Combs, Stevie Wonder are just a few of the many celebrities who turned out for Johnnie Cochran's funeral on Wednesday in Los Angeles. But it was Reverend Al Sharpton who may have touched many people's hearts.

Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They came to say good-bye to Johnnie Cochran. Among them, celebrity friends, celebrity lawyers, politicians and celebrity clients, including Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson.

O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER COCHRAN CLIENT: Johnnie fought for his clients, no matter how popular or unpopular the cause was, or the verdict was.

STEVIE WONDER, ENTERTAINER: Johnnie, I'll never forget your laughter. I'll never forget your voice.

ROWLANDS: It wasn't just the rich and famous. There were also thousands of people from the Los Angeles community where Cochran lived. During the more than three-hour service, those who knew Cochran best took turns describing him as a tireless advocate for justice who touched thousands of lives.

GEROMINO PRATT, FORMER COCHRAN CLIENT: I salute Johnnie with all of the fervor, with all of the realness, of all of the brothers and sisters who are still in prison.

REV. AL SHARPTON: In all due respect to you, Brother Simpson, we didn't clap when the acquittal of Simpson came for O.J. We were clapping for Johnnie. We were clapping -- we were clapping, because for decades our brothers, our cousins, our uncles had to stand in the well with no one to stand up for them. And finally a black man came and said, "If it don't fit, you must acquit."

ROWLANDS: Johnnie Cochran died from a brain tumor at the age of 67.

TIFFANY COCHRAN EDWARDS, COCHRAN'S DAUGHTER: He was such a wonderful man. He was just wonderful. He meant everything to me. And, Dad, I know that you are the best-dressed man in heaven. JONATHAN COCHRAN, COCHRAN'S SON: Look at it now, it seems like he was taken too soon. But I think of it as he's on a big case, and for whatever reason, God needed a lawyer in heaven and said, "Call Johnnie Cochran."

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Our condolences, of course, go out to his family. The Cochran family is expected to have a memorial service in New York as well. And in the 9:00 hour, we're going to talk with Johnnie Cochran's good friend, the Reverend Al Sharpton. That's ahead.

First, though, a look at the weather.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, from Hawaii, some video of the dramatic rescue of a father and a daughter after a glider crashed. The two were found on Tuesday. They were hanging upside down in the glider as it perched on a mountain ridge in Oahu. Rescue workers were able to airlift the pair. They suffered only minor injuries, fortunately. The glider's pilot, though, was killed in that crash. And authorities are now investigating the cause of the accident.

Let's go back out to Bill Hemmer. He's in Vatican City this morning -- Bill.

HEMMER: Hey, Soledad.

Vatican City is so full of iconic imagery. Almost every corner is filled with special meaning for the faithful. In a moment, we'll take you on a special tour of that historic symbolism. That's next as our coverage continues live from the Vatican on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Back here at the Vatican, I want to show our viewers at home down on St. Peter's Square there, the thousands of chairs that have now been set up. That will be here until tomorrow morning when the funeral for Pope John Paul II is celebrated out in St. Peter's Square. And what a history this square has, too. The Vatican is only 1.2 square miles. It's tiny here, but it is so grand in so many ways.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER (voice over): Among the hundred acres of Vatican City, there might be a million stories of significance and symbolism. Our Vatican expert, John Allen, is straddling the border.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I have one foot in one sovereign state, which is the Republic of Italy, and another in the world's smallest sovereign state, which is the Holy See.

HEMMER: The Renaissance architect Bernini had a plan about 350 years ago.

ALLEN: His idea was that the Basilica was sort of the head of a body, and those great colonnades were like arms reaching out to gather in all of humanity.

HEMMER (on camera): So, when the people are gathered here in St. Peter's Square, it's like the children of God coming together?

ALLEN: That's right. The arms of God are reaching in to gather his children.

HEMMER (voice over): And high above those colonnades stand 140 statues of Catholic saints. As the story goes, when John Paul II became pope, he stood in the square and asked, "Where are the women?" Shortly, a fresco of the Virgin Mary was placed high above the cobblestone pavement.

And when an assassin tried to kill him 24 years ago in this square, the pontiff said the Virgin Mary steered the bullet off course.

In the square center stands an Egyptian obelisk. According to tradition, this is the last thing St. Peter saw when he was crucified upside down here. Four stories up, the window of the pope's bedroom is still shuttered.

ALLEN: The window is closed when the pope is not there, opened when he is. And the lighting, the lighting indicates there is activity going on in the papal apartment. So, of course, now there is no pope, so there is no activity.

HEMMER: When there's a new pope, the window will open again.

And the main doors to the world's largest church are open. That happens only once every 50 years and when a pope finishes his work here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And we are literally just scratching the surface.

Among the pilgrims headed to Rome, there is a very large number from the pope's native country of Poland. Pilgrims from the hometown of Wadowice in southern Poland are bringing with them a special box of soil they hope to have buried with the pope.

The Polish president and the prime minister are also scheduled to attend the service on Friday, as well as the former president and Solidarity leader, Lech Walesa. Another 5,000 Poles are expected to arrive in Rome today on six special trains from Warsaw and Krakow. They are here in great numbers, too. Earlier in the week, it was all Italians, and now we're seeing so many more Poles arrive.

We are awaiting the will. We'll have it for you when we get it here at the Vatican -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Bill, thanks.

Ahead this morning, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business." Are free iPods an important part of higher education? We'll explain ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Free iPods for all incoming freshmen? Not so fast says one university. And beer companies swallowing some not so sour grapes.

With those stories, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Happy to do the college and beer report this morning. Always two good subjects.

This one is too good to last. Last year at Duke University, every single incoming freshman received an iPod, courtesy of the university. The university said they would be used in classes to record lectures, to be used in Journalism School and that sort of thing. Well, guess what? They really weren't.

And this year, the school is backtracking and only giving it to incoming freshmen in courses where they will be used. iPods are for listening to tunes, you know. One question here...

O'BRIEN: I didn't know you could record.

SERWER: No, I found out you can actually. We were just investigating that. And one freshman at "USA Today," Daniel Riley (ph), Daniel Riley (ph) says, I only really listened -- used it to listen to music. And then he said he was too busy to listen to lectures on his iPod. There are parties to go to, Daniel, I'm sure, down at Duke.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: At Duke.

SERWER: Yes, exactly.

Let's talk about Anheuser-Busch very quickly here. Of course, they are the producer of Budweiser and other libations such as Michelob. We're getting towards the weekend, in fact.

Yesterday -- weekends for Michelob. You remember.

O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, I do.

SERWER: Yes. Yesterday, the stock slipped 4 percent, because they said beer sales are weakening at the company. A revived Miller Brewing is part of the reason. The other reason is Americans are drinking more and more wine relative to beer. And you want to know the shape of things to come in this business. Today, Anheuser-Busch is expected to announce a watermelon-spiked Bacardi Silver malt beverage. And to think I could have had a V8.

O'BRIEN: A watermelon spiked Bacardi...

SERWER: Yes. Malt beverage thing-a-majigee (ph).

O'BRIEN: That doesn't sound...

SERWER: I think we're too old. We're too old.

O'BRIEN: ... tasty.

SERWER: That's what young people are drinking today, and that's what's happening.

O'BRIEN: Those young people, that's what they're drinking.

SERWER: Yes, I know. It sounds very ancient of us -- or me.

O'BRIEN: All right, thanks, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: The "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: The "Question of the Day." They're at it down there in Florida again. Lawmakers now have approved a bill that allows a gun owner to shoot an attacker at home or in a public place in self- defense. It's sponsored by the NRA. The so-called Stand Your Ground bill no longer requires a person to retreat before defending themselves. If at home, you can now shoot an intruder whether or not that intruder had any intent to harm.

Similar laws are on the books in Oklahoma and Colorado. However, Florida is the first to extend the law into public spaces. Any place that you have a right to be, you have a right to defend yourself against a perceived felonious assault.

The question is: Should it be legal for Florida residents to open fire when they perceive a threat?

John in Georgia writes: "Yes, with the understanding that actions can lead to legal proceedings in court. People need the constitutional right to bear arms and protect themselves from hoodlums."

Buck in Virginia writes: "In the lexicon of the Bush family, this is called a pre-emptive strike. And if it was good enough for W, then it's going to be great for little brother Jeb."

Dean in New Jersey: "I don't know about anybody else, but if my life is threatened, I'm going to take appropriate action regardless of what the law says. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Brenda in Oregon: "No. Since Florida has a large population of older and, dare I say, sight-impaired citizens, I don't think this would fly." And Dana in Maryland writes: "Thank god someone is finally standing up for the rights of the honest citizen. This new legislation makes a lot more sense than having to wait until a person is robbed, raped, shot, killed, et cetera, and then calling the police."

So there.

SERWER: Remember the Bernie Goetz case in New York...

CAFFERTY: Sure.

SERWER: ... where a guy perceived that people were attacking him on the subway and shot them. And you remember how that turned out.

CAFFERTY: Did he go to prison for a short time?

O'BRIEN: He sure did.

SERWER: He did.

CAFFERTY: But it was on a gun charge.

SERWER: Right, exactly.

CAFFERTY: He was not convicted of shooting those guys.

SERWER: Right, right.

CAFFERTY: He was convicted of carrying an unlicensed firearm.

SERWER: It's very interesting and controversial stuff.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Yes, really the issue is the perceived part

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Because, of course, that's what the big fight over is in court at the end of the day.

All right, Jack, thanks.

In a moment, the life and loves of Jane Fonda, from the controversy over Vietnam-era protests to her famous husbands' infidelities. Fonda tells all in her new autobiography. She's going to join us live a little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.