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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Illegal Aliens Putting Strain on Hospitals; Videotape Proves Truth of Alleged Minutemen Incident

Aired April 08, 2005 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LOU DOBBS, HOST: Wolf, thank you. And we will be watching. Thank you, Judy. Thank you, Wolf. We're going to be, in the next hour, following up on some extraordinary stories we've been reporting on illegal immigration. And frankly, I think they're going to surprise you and our audience.
But that is next. We wish you both, Judy and Wolf, a very good evening and a great weekend.

Tonight here, we'll be reporting on the high cost of illegal immigration. Illegal aliens invading our emergency rooms all around the country, forcing many hospitals, in fact, to close, leaving thousands of U.S. citizens without medical care.

We'll also begin our examination of whether corruption in the agencies responsible for border protection may be contributing to our escalating illegal alien crisis.

Also tonight, "Flunking Out," the crisis in our public schools. Many of our students, teachers, and administrators are complete and abject failures. We'll be talking with a Harvard professor who says some of our schools are simply dropout factories.

And the pope laid to rest on a simple wooden coffin in the biggest funeral in history. My guest tonight, a leading authority on the papacy. He'll be discussing the future of the Catholic Church as the College of Cardinals prepare to select a new pope.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, a national health care crisis the White House and Congress simply refuse to acknowledge. The invasion of illegal aliens into our hospital emergency rooms is stretching, our health care system to the breaking point, leaving thousands of American citizens without care. And incredibly, the federal government has no idea how big this problem is.

Christine Romans has our exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jackson Memorial Hospital's emergency room treats more than 125,000 patients a year. Many of those are illegal aliens who never pay the bill.

FRANK BARRETT, CFO, JACKSON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: We have a burden that we clearly didn't ask for, but we're taking it on. We're treating everybody that comes through our door, and we treat everybody the same.

ROMANS: This hospital has long provided so-called charity care to Florida's poor and uninsured. But charity to a growing number of illegal aliens is stretching this hospital to the limit.

For every $1 of taxpayer funding, Jackson Memorial spends $1.66 in charity care.

(on camera) Illegal immigrants make very expensive patients. No health insurance, no preventative health care, often dangerous jobs, and their first point contact with our health care system is the emergency room.

DR. GERARD KAISER, JACKSON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: Because of their status, they often do not keep the follow-up appointments, and if there are then problems in the follow-up or particularly need to continue medication, if that's not done, then they return to the hospital and become what we call frequent flyers to the emergency room.

ROMANS (voice-over): One Florida congressman estimates those emergency room frequent flyers cost Florida hospitals and taxpayers more than $1 billion a year.

REP. MARK FOLEY (R), FLORIDA: It's just not fair for Floridians, for Americans to pick up the cost of some other country's citizen, when it certainly shouldn't fall on their shoulders.

ROMANS: But Americans are picking up the tab for illegal aliens, all over the country. In California, 84 hospitals have closed, overwhelmed by free health care to illegal aliens.

The 24 counties on the border with Mexico estimate they spent at least $200 million in 2000 and $13 million in unpaid ambulance bills. In New Jersey alone, county governments estimate they spend at least $200 million a year. In Los Angeles County, $340 million. In Harris County, Texas, $80 million. In Maricopa County, Arizona, $60 to $80 million.

DON STAPLEY, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES: It's overwhelming the system because we don't have the financial wherewithal. The tax burden is so great that we've had to cut back and just not offer the services.

ROMANS: Yet our federal government has no hard numbers on the effect of illegals on hospitals. The Government Accounting Office calls measuring the impact elusive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: But is not elusive for county governments who are cutting other services for citizens; for border hospitals who are shedding their maternity wards because they never get paid; for hospital administrators who, by law, must treat everyone and then must pass those costs onto paying patients, American taxpayers.

DOBBS: That is an extraordinary story. Jackson Hospital spending all of that money and care on illegal aliens. Human beings, as is often pointed out here, but nonetheless, displacing U.S. citizens from that care.

ROMANS: It's amazing, as well, they're spending $1 million a year on translators so that they can talk to people who are coming into their emergency room.

And you heard about their frequent flyers, people coming in over and over and over again, very sick in the first place. Lots of diseases. Lots of problems. Costs taxpayers there a lot of money. It's not sustainable for Jackson.

DOBBS: Not sustainable for Jackson. Obviously, for 84 hospitals in California and many of the hospitals in Texas, as well, across the border.

But the idea that measuring this crisis is elusive. The estimates, for example, on illegal immigration in this country range from the most benign estimate, which would be somewhere around eight million living in this country, to 20 million in the most recent study that we use on this broadcast which was conducted by Bear Stearns.

The fact that the government does not have a handle on this, is this utter incompetence or is the bureaucracy ensnared in just sheer incompetence?

ROMANS: Well, the counties, have been -- they have been measuring, and they've been telling the federal government, "Listen, we are trying to figure out how much." It's coming out of their county budgets for some of these county hospitals. They have been screaming and crying about this and still nothing from the federal government.

DOBBS: And of course from the federal government, there is Medicaid. After all, they do have a measure of that, but of course, they cannot ask whether or not a person is illegal or not, amongst the many absurdities of our federal government at this particular moment.

Christine, that is a shocking story. Thank you very much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

DOBBS: Christine Romans.

Another shocking illustration tonight of the way in which human traffickers are smuggling large numbers of illegal aliens into this country, in particular from the nation of Mexico.

A state trooper in Texas pulled over an 18-wheeler for a routine inspection on Interstate 20. That's near Abilene. Inside that trailer, the trooper discovered 48 illegal aliens, ranging in age to 13 to 55.

The trooper also found the truck driver did not have a commercial driver's license or a log book. The illegal aliens were handed over to the border patrol.

And elsewhere in Texas, prosecutors have charged a senior U.S. border patrol agent and his brother with accepting bribes from drug dealers. The two agents were named in a 12-page indictment unsealed in Laredo, Texas.

Prosecutors say the men received $1.5 million in bribes for allowing marijuana and cocaine through their checkpoint.

Critics of the Minuteman Project now under way in Arizona have been looking for any excuse possible to blast those volunteers trying to protect our border with Mexico.

Those critics believed they had found the perfect opportunity with an incident that was given wide media coverage this week by many news organizations that all but ignore our illegal alien crisis, but it turns out the reality very different from what was portrayed in that initial widespread media reaction.

Kitty Pilgrim has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Law enforcement officials say this illegal alien claimed he was detained, physically restrained by three Minutemen border volunteers, forced to hold a joke T-shirt while he was videotaped.

The T-shirt reads "Bryan Barton caught me crossing the border and all they got was this T-shirt."

Bryan Barton is a Minuteman Border Patrol volunteer, who gave him the shirt.

BYRON BARTON, MINUTEMAN VOLUNTEER: I'm a joke maker.

PILGRIM: But Barton's joke caused a furor. The Arizona ACLU on its web site called it, quote, harassment. Major news organizations ran stories. The illegal alien filed a legal complaint.

Barton says nonsense, just look at his tape of the incident.

BARTON: Basically we were driving down the road and saw a gentleman wandering over there and talked to him. And in fact called him over. He said he was very hungry. He needed food. We immediately gave him food. We immediately gave him water.

And as a matter of fact, he asked us to call the Border Patrol, because he was very hungry and he got separated from his group. So he asked for us to call the Border Patrol, and we did just exactly that.

I gave him $20 because I felt bad for him and his story. And I also gave him the shirt off my back quite literally. We shook hands. It was real kind of emotional.

PILGRIM: In the tape, as the illegal alien is taken away, he gives a thumbs-up to the Minutemen. Why does Barton think the man filed a complaint?

BARTON: I think that he was prodded by someone once he went into custody. I don't know exactly who or what.

PILGRIM: What does he have to say about that?

BARTON: I'd say, "Jose, it wasn't cool that you accused me of detaining you. And I'd like my $20 back."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The sheriff's department in Cochise, Arizona, where the incident took place, says they said they looked at tape. There is no base for any allegation against the Minutemen, which is hardly the powder keg atmosphere talked about by the Arizona ACLU.

And this by the way, Lou, is the only incident that's been reported against the Minutemen.

DOBBS: That may be one of the funniest pieces I have seen. The absurdity of those at the ACLU. I wonder who was prodding this young man in these unfortunate circumstances to bring forward a complaint.

PILGRIM: The legal case is dismissed.

DOBBS: Someone should be very embarrassed, and they have no association with the Minuteman Project.

PILGRIM: Luckily, they were rolling tape on it.

DOBBS: Isn't videotape a wonderful thing?

PILGRIM: It's a wonderful thing in this case. I'll tell you that.

DOBBS: And since we live with it, it's hard to get a misquote or a mischaracterization with it. Kitty Pilgrim, thank you very much for that enlightening, illuminating report.

Well, the joint terrorism task force in Atlanta tonight is investigating suspicious behavior now by a trainee pilot at a flight school in Georgia. That trainee pilot, an illegal alien, reportedly became aggressive when the flight school refused to accelerate his training schedule.

The FBI says the trainee then fled to the United Kingdom, but British police have not taken him into custody. Officials here say the trainee, however, is a person of interest.

Wal-Mart has been widely criticized for its labor practices. One issue is employee health care coverage. Critics charge that Wal-Mart is using taxpayer money to pay for employee health care. Now one state is taking action to make certain Wal-Mart is paying its fair share to cover the cost of employee health care.

Lisa Sylvester tonight reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maryland's legislature has passed a bill that would require companies with 10,000 employees or more to pay at least 8 percent of their payroll on health benefits or put the money into a Medicaid fund. It just so happens that Wal-Mart is the only large company that does not meet that requirement. Critics accuse the retail giant of using Medicaid and state programs for the poor as its health care plan.

VINCENT DEMARCO, MARYLAND CITIZENS HEALTH INITIATIVE: Many of the uninsured, people who don't have health care through these companies go on Medicaid, go on the CHIP program, and we subsidize them through our taxes.

SYLVESTER: Only half of Wal-Mart's employees are enrolled in the company-provided health care program. That amounts to about 7 to 8 percent of payroll in Maryland, just under the requirement. By comparison, the regional Giant Food grocery chain pays about 23 percent of its payroll on health care.

Wal-Mart executives blame the nature of the service industry with high turnover, and insist job creation helps take people off government roles. Wal-Mart part-timers are more eligible for insurance if they stick around for two years.

RAY BRACY, VICE PRESIDENT PUBLIC AFFAIRS, WAL-MART: We are creating an opportunity for people to have health care who have never had it before. It's not a race to the bottom. This is a company that provides opportunity, it provides decent jobs, it provides good benefits.

SYLVESTER: Congressman Chris Van Hollen calls companies who don't pay their share freeloaders and deadbeats. He wants to propose national legislation modeled after the Maryland bill.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: This is a way to require those companies to pay their fair share of the contribution, not penalize taxpayers and not penalize their competitors who are doing the right thing.

SYLVESTER: Supporters of the Maryland legislation say it's an idea that's even more imperative with the federal Medicaid program slated for cuts this year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: And this is not only an issue in Maryland. In Florida, Wal-Mart has more employees and family members eligible for Medicaid than any other company in the state, according to the Florida Department of Children and Families -- Lou. DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.

Mexico's political crisis is escalating tonight. That country's most popular politician is preparing to go to jail in a showdown with both President Vicente Fox and the principal opposition party.

More than 100,000 people protested in Mexico City to show their support for that politician, the leftist mayor of Mexico City whose supporters say he is facing trumped up charge as Vicente Fox tries to stop him from running in next year's presidential elections. The mayor is the clear favorite to win that election, by the way, and has gained support by introducing left-wing policies designed to help the impoverished in Mexico.

Coming up next here, the pope is laid to rest. His successor faces huge challenges. My guest a leading authority on the papacy.

And secret trade agreements. I'll be joined by a leading senator who says Congress has been brain dead on trade policy and issues.

That and more still ahead coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Pope John Paul II buried today in a crypt below St. Peter's Basilica after a two-and-a-half-hour funeral mass today. Leaders from all around the world attending the ceremony, along with millions of pilgrims who flocked to Vatican City. Some chanting for the pope to be made a saint. Today's funeral mass begins nine days of mourning.

And joining me now from Boston, Father John Paris. He's a professor at Boston College.

Father, it's good to have you with us. Your thoughts as you watched the largest funeral to ever take place in history?

REV. JOHN PARIS, PROFESSOR, BOSTON COLLEGE: My thoughts were not on the spender of the setting, nor on the power of the people there. My thoughts and the entire focus was on a simple wooden coffin.

No signs of power. No signs of authority. No flag. No papal tiara. Just the gospel.

That symbolized what Christians believe about life, that in the end we're all the same. Power is gone. And now it's a simple person, a simple soul before Christ, his judge.

DOBBS: And that simple soul, Pope John Paul II, talked about his concerns, his fears of rampant consumerism and materialism throughout the world. Do you believe that that will be a focus of his successor?

PARIS: I do. That's one of the overwhelming problems we face. And I think what you saw with all of those young people there, they're simply not satisfied with consumerism and with materialism. As St. Augustine put it, "Our hearts are restless till they rest in something more, till they rest in Thee." And so that's going to be the great test, how do we put spirituality back into a world that's consumed with material goods?

DOBBS: Well, just the world attention on Pope John Paul II, not only by Catholics, but people of all faiths and those who have no faith, was a significant departure this week. On the 18th of this month, the conclave begins that will result in the selection of a new pope. Talk of an absolute media blackout.

The cardinals are cloistered, as you well know. Why the concern about a media blackout?

PARIS: The concern there is they don't want any outside influence upon selection of the pope. They lock them in. The word "conclave" meaning with a key, precisely to prevent outside influences.

No telephones, no Internet. No means of communication. No newspapers. The hope is, not political influence but the spirit will be at work.

DOBBS: Well, seeking no influence whatsoever on the outcome, I'm pleased to say that Father Paris will be joining us on the 18th of this month to -- as we cover from a distance the deliberations of that conclave. And, of course, the decision that results.

Father John Paris, good to have you with us.

PARIS: Good to be here.

DOBBS: And CNN will be broadcasting Pope John Paul II's entire funeral ceremony this evening beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. For complete coverage of the funeral from the beginning to his burial beneath St. Peter's Basilica, CNN coverage at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Please be with us.

And coming up next here on this broadcast, the inspiring story of a brave U.S. Marine Corps captain who fought in Iraq. He says his reward is simply knowing he saved lives, and saved lives he did.

And one leading senator who says we are selling America piece by piece. We will hear from him next about what he's doing to stop it.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve our country. Tonight in "Heroes," the story of Marine Captain Armando Espinoza. He was awarded the military's Distinguished Flying Cross for risking his life to save the lives of his fellow Marines.

Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been awarded the highest honor a Marine navigator can receive for bravery while flying. But Captain Armando Espinoza says the real reward is knowing he saved the lives of 35 Marines.

CAPT. ARMANDO ESPINOZA, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We were doing our jobs. We were -- that's what our task was to do, was to get those Marines into a place where they can get help.

TUCKER: The Marines were injured during a firefight in Baghdad shortly after the war started. Captain Espinoza was flying a medevac helicopter. In a barrage of gunfire, he landed the chopper five separate times to rescue the wounded.

ESPINOZA: There's a helicopter spinning, I've got a headset on, I've got radio traffic coming in. All I see is the Marines just hit the deck and start shooting.

TUCKER: Espinoza credits his team for the mission's success.

ESPINOZA: I do remember a particular moment when I was asking our corpsman man in the back, HM2 Burnette (ph), how the casualties were doing. And he very calmly said over the radio, "They're doing fine, sir. Just fly the plane."

TUCKER: Espinoza served in Desert Storm and has completed two tours of duty in Iraq.

SGT. CHRIS OAKESON, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Captain Espinoza is just one of those officers that the crew chiefs get along with because he's a good pilot and he's also a good person. So he attracts people.

TUCKER: A fellow pilot believes the distinguished Flying Cross is well deserved.

CAPT. DAVID ROEN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Captain Espinoza, rather than just sitting back and waiting to be told what to do, came over the radios and volunteered for it, and told us what he was going to do, basically. Marines are alive because of it.

TUCKER: Espinoza is a flight safety officer now, continuing to serve at Camp Pendleton, California.

Bill tucker, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And we wish, and we know you do as well, Captain Espinoza the very best.

Coming up next here, why one leading senator says Congress has been brain dead on at least one critically important issue of economic and national security.

Also tonight, why Congress is ceding power to the White House on some of the most pressing critical issues facing this country. My guest a political science professor.

And flunking out. The crisis in our public schools. I'll be talking with a Harvard professor who says some of our schools are nothing other than dropout factories.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Senator Byron Dorgan says Congress made a mistake when it passed Fast Track Authority in 2002, giving President Bush the power to negotiate trade deals that Congress may only approve or reject and cannot amend. I talked with Senator Dorgan earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Senator, Congress till this point has shown little if any appetite for taking responsibility for being accountable for itself on important issues. Will Fast Track Authority be any different?

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, I hope so. But, you know, there's not much evidence that the Congress is willing to tackle these issues. They've been -- you know, with all due respect to the body in which I serve, the Congress has been pretty brain dead on issues.

Fast Track is the worst part of this trade issue, because Fast Track actually ties the hands of member of Congress when the president will bring to the Congress a new trade treaty that has been negotiated in secret, often which pulls the rug out from under American workers and American farmers.

DOBBS: And amongst those farmers are those who are toiling in Senator Charles Grassley's home state. He is going along with allowing the automatic extension of Fast-track authority, is he not?

DORGAN: Well, I've introduced this resolution of disapproval. And now I've got to go talk to Senator Grassley.

He has indicated that he wants to bottle up the resolution of this type in the Senate Finance Committee. But, you know, look, we have to wage this fight.

We have a crippling trade deficit in this country. We have jobs being outsourced overseas, left and right. And now we have not only a bad trade agreement coming to us called the CAFTA Agreement, but they want to negotiate new agreements, and they want to do that under something called Fast Track Again.

And, you know, I intend to fight it. It's the wrong thing to do.

Finally this country and this Congress needs to stand up and decide this trade policy doesn't work. It's undermining this country.

DOBBS: At least the Senate voted by, what was it, 65-35 in favor of the amendment introduced by Senator Schumer to impose some restrictions on China if it doesn't bring our trade relationship into balance. Is there hope here, any glimmer of hope that actually Congress, if not this administration, could awaken to the realities in which we find ourselves?

DORGAN: Well, I hope so. I mean, every trade agreement should have a shock absorber for currency fluctuations. Because these currency fluctuations or the manipulation of a currency can undermine any trade agreement.

But frankly, even without currency manipulations, you know, the fact is our workers in this country can't compete with 30-cent-an-hour labor. We can't compete with plants that are able to produce where they have no environmental restrictions, they can hire kids and work them 12 hours a day and pay them 12 cents an hour.

We can't compete with that. There ought to be some basic admission price to the American marketplace. And that's what trade agreements ought to be as well. I support expanding trade, but I darn sure want to make sure it's fair trade.

DOBBS: Expanding trade to this point has meant opening our markets, the richest market in the world, to foreign producers and exporting very little if anything. Of course we make very little if anything in this country anymore. So one wonders how we can ever generate exports.

Do you know?

DORGAN: Absolutely. Almost $2 billion a day, Lou.

We buy more in foreign goods coming into this country than we sell. Almost $2 billion a day, seven days in a week.

In effect, we're selling America piece by piece. It's unbelievable. And nobody wants to wake up and do something about it except you. And thanks for what you do on your program to call attention to the outsourcing of jobs and what happens when you have the kind of trade deficit we have in this country.

DOBBS: And what will happen, as you very well know, Senator Dorgan, is not a pleasant thing for any of us in this country to contemplate.

Senator, we thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it.

DORGAN: Thank you, Lou.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And a new poll tonight shows Americans both Democrats and Republicans are not very impressed with the job Congress is doing, not impressed at all. The Associated Press/Ipsus poll shows only 37 percent of those polled have a favorable opinion of Congress.

My guest tonight is the author of "Delegating Powers," Sharon O'Halloran, professor of political science at Columbia University. Good to have you with us.

SHARON O'HALLORAN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Great to be here.

DOBBS: Professor, as low as the president's approval rating is now, Congress' is even lower. Part of the reason as Senator Dorgan and I were discussing is this Congress continues to seed power to the executive, whether it be on trade policies, whether it be on oversight. What in the world is going on?

O'HALLORAN: Well, you have a unified Congress. You have a unified Congress that's in the same party as the president. They share a lot of the same policy, goals and agendas. So what you're seeing is Congress delegating authority, considerable discretionary authority to the executive to enact his policy agenda.

DOBBS: And as we look over the most recent history, whether it on trade policy, whether it be in examining closely, intelligence. Admittedly the Republicans are in authority, but the Democrats for many people at least, many observers, they don't seem to be much different than Republicans in their philosophies or their values.

O'HALLORAN: Well, I think on trade -- on issues in which they disagree with the Republicans such as the trade policy issues, such as Social Security, you are actually seeing that the Democrats are beginning to cohere and act as an opposition party. And I think that is what is happening.

And also the Republicans are beginning to split with the Bush administration on Social Security.

DOBBS: On Social Security, on point in fact, on immigration policy, on a number of issues. But the fact is the functioning aspect of the institution is really at a critical juncture, at least it seems to me. What are your thoughts?

O'HALLORAN: Well, the delegation of authority from Congress to the executive has actually have a long history. And you see this usually in times of unified control of both the House -- both houses of Congress and the presidency where Congress is willing to seed authority to the executive to make decisions on important policy. And that's exactly what's going on here.

DOBBS: But the effect, professor, has it not been that a system of checks and balances and three separate but equal, equal branches of government are no longer equal?

O'HALLORAN: It's not clear that when the policy preferences of the president and Congress actually diverge -- when they have a lot of conflict over policy, that in fact, you won't see Congress become an active party in this. And that is really what's going on.

DOBBS: And do you have any thought that if Democrats were in power, it would be any different.

O'HALLORAN: Yes, I do. For example when the Clinton administration tried to renew its fast track authority in the 1997 it was unable to do so just because the Republican controls the Congress -- the House at that time. So yes, I would expect very different types of policies being enacted.

DOBBS: OK. Professor, we thank you for being with us here.

O'HALLORAN: Thank you.

DOBBS: That brings us to subject of our poll tonight. "Do you believe the officials you elected are adequately representing your views and your interests? Yes or no." Please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Margaret Mood in Santa Ana, California, "by allowing employers to hire illegal immigrants and at the same time disallowing legal status to those employees, Congress is helping to create an underclass which supports our economy, yet has no legal status. Shouldn't the civil have taught us that we can't have it both ways?"

Tim Donnelly in Twin Peaks, California, "my only regret about participating in the Minuteman Project is that I missed your show while out on patrol." We thank you.

And Mary Newman in Flagstaff, Arizona, "it angers me when politicians say that illegal aliens are just coming here to work. If that were true, our prisons wouldn't be full of citizens from Mexico."

And in Hollywood, Florida, "I am Hispanic and I'm not offended by any comments you make. I am completely against illegal immigration. And what you portray on your show is faithful, truthful and it's not one-sided. I'm happy to see someone talking about the issues that truly affect us. Moreover, I don't believe your comments are racists." We appreciate that.

John O'Mara from Deckerville, Michigan, wrote in about our story last night on the president of the National Association of Manufacturers in support of CAFTA. Is this the same John Engler who devastated the state of Michigan in the '80's and '90's. The same John Engler who was a key campaigner for President George W. Bush. If it is, the statement comes as no surprise to anyone in the state of Michigan."

We love hearing your thoughts. E-mail us at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy book of "Exporting America."

And if you would like to receive our e-mail newsletter, our Web site is loudobbs.com. Sign up there please.

Still ahead, I'll be joined by three of this nation's top political journalist. We'll be talking about what has been a event- filled week.

And also ahead, flunking out. The dropout crisis in our nation's public schools. Why many of our teacher, administers, and students are simply failing. I will be talking with a Harvard professor who says many our schools are nothing less than drop-out factories. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now, some of the important stories we're following here tonight. Accused Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph today avoided the death penalty. He made a plea deal with prosecutors. Rudolph agreed to plead guilty to a number of bombings, including one during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Rudolph faces life in prison.

The crew of the Shuttle Discovery says for the first time it won't fly that spacecraft unless NASA implements all of the recommendations of the safety commission. The 7 astronauts are due to fly to the International Spacestation as early as May 15.

So far, NASA has met only 7 of the 15 safety recommendations proposed by the commission on the Colombia disaster two years ago. One can only salute those astronauts for demanding what should be in effect now.

And the head of the Transportation Security Administration is stepping down. David Stone, the third TSA chief to leave in three years, the third in three years. No reason given for the decision. A replacement has not been named.

And dropout rates among minorities in U.S. high schools are simply staggering. A recent study conducted by the Civil Rights Project at Harvard found that only about half of the African-American and Latino males graduated from California high schools on time.

My next guest says schools are nothing less but dropouts. Gary Orfield is a professor at education and the director of the Civil Right Project at Harvard, also the author of "Dropouts in America," joining us tonight from Boston. Good to have you here.

GARY ORFIELD, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Great to be with you.

DOBBS: Gary, we have discussed this issue. The fact is that no one in our audience is surprised to hear that we have a crisis in our schools. I suppose the real question is, why in the world is nothing being done to save the lives, the futures of those young men and women?

ORFIELD: We have been concentrating so much on giving students tests and looking at just the test scores that we haven't really looked at anything else. And our dropout rate actually quite a bit higher than it was back in the Johnson administration. And it's been going up steadily.

DOBBS: Professor, let me ask you, just to interrupt you for a second to put up a graphic here so our audience can follow these numbers that you put forward. And these are the dropout rates of high school students by ethnicity and race. And there you see it, broken down: Asian, 76.8 percent graduation rate, White, 74.9, Hispanic 53.2, Native American 51.1, African-American 50.2 percent. Now, I have to say, those are just utterly stunning numbers. No matter how inured we are to the problems of public education, to see that kind of dropout rate is gut-wrenching.

ORFIELD: But if you understand, the United States now has 41 percent nonwhite students in all our public schools. And these students just aren't making it, and they're not getting prepared for the economy. And there really is no program out there to address this or even to get honest data about it.

DOBBS: Well, forgive me. We have -- we're spending so much more money than we were 40 years ago, when we started focusing on minorities and education. Forty -- exactly 40 years ago, in point of fact. But money isn't solving the problem. We have a number of forces at work here. The fact is, African-Americans, those students with that level of dropout rate, it's so frustrating and annoying and befuddling, it's almost ineffable to express the dimension of disappointment in it.

What is going on in our educational system? We hear talk about government and unions. But what are -- what is going on with the institutions themselves and our local communities?

ORFIELD: Well, we haven't been focusing on this issue. We really haven't been working on the graduation rate. And we have really been working with mostly really young kids, trying to deal with preschool and early elementary school.

We need to look at kids and realize they all grow up, and when they're adolescents, they have problems. And adolescence in high- poverty areas, segregated from the rest of the society, have greater -- much greater problems.

So we need to help these kids. We need to make sure that they're monitored. We need to have high standards. And we need to be relentless in keeping them in school. And we have almost no counselors in these schools. We have very little resources for them to help kids who come in way behind.

DOBBS: What about the role of parents and the role of discipline? I can't tell you how many times I hear that teachers and administrators are absolutely frightened to death to even think about disciplining a student or insisting that discipline be part of the institution, or the number of parents who simply hand off their children to a system, in this case, the public schools.

ORFIELD: Well, it's clear that having parents who are educated and involved is a huge advantage to kids, and having schools where there's a lot of parents like that, kids do much better. And parents have got to monitor their kid and make sure they're taking their courses and going to school. And the schools have got to let the parents know what's going on.

We have a lot of schools in our big cities now where there really aren't people in the schools who can talk to the parents who come from other places, don't speak English. And we don't have much to help those parents in adult education.

We really need to work on all dimensions of this thing. But the first thing we need to do is be honest about the problem and create a goal and accountability for our schools to make it better.

DOBBS: Well, I want to compliment you, because you are certainly at the forefront of being honest about the problem, because with the orthodox and the political correctness that is enshrouding our public educational system, I can't tell you how many schools and administrators, counselors, and so-called experts who've said, I just do not want to discuss what is happening with the testing of minority students in this country, which, to me, is, as you say, it is -- it's just another wall between us and a solution.

ORFIELD: I...

DOBBS: And we complement you for your work. Professor, thank you very much for being with us. We're going to talk, I hope, in the very near future as we wrestle with this problem.

ORFIELD: Thank you very much.

DOBBS: Professor Gary Orfield, thank you, sir.

ORFIELD: Thank you.

DOBBS: How one company is taking a stand against the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. We'll have that special report for you.

And the most important stories of the week, with tonight's newsmaker.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As you know, we focus here extensively on the devastation caused by U.S. companies that export U.S. jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.

Tonight, new evidence that outsourcing can be even more damaging to Americans and our economy.

Police have arrested 12 men in India for allegedly stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from American Citibank customers. Three of those men were former employees of an Indian outsourcing firm who have been charged with misusing financial data and illegally withdrawing money from the accounts of New York-based customers.

Citigroup responded to the story by saying, "We've made these customers whole for the funds that were fraudulently taken from their accounts. That case is currently being investigated by local authorities in India."

So now theft from a New York citizen is an Indian jurisdictional problem.

Forrester Research says that incident could slow outsourcing growth in India, suggesting that it may slow it by as much as a third.

Tonight, we feature an American company dedicated to keeping jobs here. Go Daddy Software gaining national attention during this year's Super Bowl with a controversial commercial that was banned by network censors, in fact. Now, Go Daddy is gaining attention and winning some praise for refusing to export American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.

Casey Wian reports from Gilbert, Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, TV COMMERCIAL)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go Daddy, Go Daddy, go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You may remember this Super Bowl commercial, which Fox pulled from the broadcast after a similar ad aired earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (on phone): Thank you for contacting customer support. This is Ian speaking.

WIAN: The publicity helped Go Daddy grab more than a quarter of the global Internet domain registration market. But Go Daddy's founder says the real secret is his refusal to send its call center, software development, or any other part of the business to cheap overseas labor markets.

BOB PARSONS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, GODADDY.COM: Very happy to tell you that the Gilbert call center in the good old U.S. of A. is now open.

Our employees are required to really understand what our customers need and to relate to them, and also to help our customers with a wide variety of products.

I probably get two or three calls a day to move the call center to India, Russia, Canada, lately starting to hear about moving it to China. But, you know, I tell them, I just -- I'm not interested, because what we have here works. Wouldn't work overseas.

WIAN: Labor costs here would make an outsourcer cringe, $14 to $18 an hour. Top performers make twice that. Regular contests help them stay motivated. Right now, the company is giving away a year's mortgage or rent, plus paying the tax liability, to two staffers. Two others get trips to Hawaii.

J.R. BRISCOE, EMPLOYEE: I won a 42-inch flat-screen plasma TV that I got just in time for the Super Bowl.

WIAN: This board shows the number of callers on hold and their average waiting time. It's too high, so a manager takes charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, let's hit this. Time to do what we do.

WIAN: Within minutes, the waiting time is cut in half. Employees say customers notice the difference.

PAMELA OROZCO, EMPLOYEE: I've had a few who are happy that after calling Microsoft or whoever they called, that they were speaking to somebody in America.

WIAN: During the past eight months, Go Daddy's call center staff doubled. Profitability jumped 1,000 percent.

Casey Wian, CNN, Gilbert, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Three U.S. senators are calling for a full investigation into Tyco's proposed sale of critical U.S.-built infrastructure to an Indian company.

As we reported exclusively here, Tyco International planning to sell Advanced Underseas Fiberoptic Cable Networks to a company partly owned by the Indian government. Senator Jon Kyl, Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator Ted Stevens asking that the secret Committee on Foreign Investments investigate that deal. In a letter to Treasury Secretary John Snow, who chairs the committee, the lawmakers wrote, "The Tyco global network is a strategic asset of incalculable value to United States security and commercial interest. We believe the transaction warrants a full and thorough review."

That network, broadband more than $3 billion invested, the price that it's being sold for $130 million. The Committee on Foreign Investment reviews any deals that could have implications for national security. That committee, however, doesn't comment publicly about any of it's activities, so there is no where to know whether it's taking up the review.

A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe the officials you elected are adequately represent your views and interests, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. The results coming up here shortly. Still ahead, our newsmakers and a preview of what's coming up Monday. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now, our newsmakers. Joining me tonight from Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times."

Karen, let me begin quickly with you. The president, two former presidents, the first lady at the pontiff's funeral. A significant departure from tradition, its meaning?

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, as you know, this is the first U.S. President to attend a pope's funeral. I think it just -- it just speaks to the -- you know the degree to which this event has sort of galvanized the world, has captured world attention. Of course, it's impossible to overlook the fact, too, though that there is also a political angle in here, as we are three political reporters. And George Bush has been incredibly successful as a Republican winning a traditionally Catholic Democratic vote. And I think to some degree that is reflected too in his desire to be over there and part of this event.

DOBBS: And, Roger Simon, the president's approval rating dropping, sitting in the mid 40s according to most polls. What is happening that isn't working in the first few months of his second term?

ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I think that year might go down as the year the Republicans overreached. It's not uncommon for a second-term president to overreach especially in the beginning. But I think he has overreached on the Social Security privatization. I still don't think there's a constituency for that.

I think he overreached along with Republicans in Congress on the Schiavo case. And the recent attack on judges by Tom DeLay and Cornyn of Texas. And I think, they've also overreached on this nuclear option, to change the rules about filibustering. I don't think the public has reacted well to any of those things.

RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Lou, can I just jump in there. The president from the beginning, I think has a very conscience strategy, trying to mobilize his base even at the cost of polarizing the rest of the country. If worked for him in the election of 2004. He increased the share of voters of Republicans and Conservatives.

But you look at these polls now, there is the widest gap in the history of polling between the views of his performance among Republicans and Democrats, over 70 points. His approval rating among independents is down to about 34 percent. It hasn't been over 50 percent of among Americans who call themselves moderates in over a year. In essentially, in this environment, as Roger says, what he is doing continues to win high marks among Republican, whether it's Social Security or judges or Terri Schiavo, but it is having a cost in polarizing and alienating a lot of other voters.

DOBBS: Karen, as Ron suggests, the president has a lot of baggage going there and the weight is take his numbers down. But at same time, we see Congress, its numbers are even lower. In point in fact, the GOP within Congress is splitting. Perhaps because they -- many of them will be running for election next year and at least two issues are in absolute countervailing position to the public. Immigration, Social Security, what's going on?

TUMULTY: Well, I think one of the things that's going on is that Congress has become almost incapable of getting anything at all done. If you look back at times when public approval of Congress has been the highest it has been when the two sides have been able to get together and work on anything. The only two bipartisan issues that we have seen Congress deal with, on a bipartisan basis in the last few months, have been Terri Schiavo and steroids in sports. And you know, this is not getting the people's business done.

DOBBS: Not getting the people's business done, but the Republican Party is in charge of both Houses, the White House. Will there be a price to be paid on the part of the Republicans next year, Roger, if indeed this continues?

SIMON: It's possible. Although, the sad fact is in American politics is that incumbents almost never lose. And it's all a matter of how many open seats there are. How many of those seats are really in contention. And I don't think many people are betting now that the Republicans will lose control in either of House or the Senate.

BROWNSTEIN: Other factor, Lou, is who votes? The Bush strategy really is different from what many presidents before it have pursued. They don't worry as much about alienating that voter in the middle if they believe their cores will activate their core supporters to come in larger numbers. And if you ask the Bush people about his declining approval ratings, they say that's interesting. The real question is, what are his numbers among the people who actually come out to vote? So, they feel even if they're losing with the mass public, they might be gaining by motivating their own voters.

DOBBS: I don't know what your feedback is, but I will tell you the viewers of this broadcast, as they have expressed themselves to e- mails to us, at least, and phone calls, are getting -- are very favorable about the Minuteman Project, expressions of support for citizens taking on responsibility of both Congress and the president are failing to do. Do you see perhaps a sea-change here that the clever mavens (ph) in Washington don't?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I mean, I think the feeling is the first week probably was less turbulent than people expected it. Still, look, it's a very controversial idea to have a large number of people out there on the border acting on their own. In the end, it may take a broader solution than just more enforcement to really get a handle on this.

DOBBS: All right, thank you very much, Ron Brownstein, Karen Tumulty, Roger Simon. Please have great weekends. Thanks for being here.

BROWNSTEIN: We'll work at it.

TUMULTY: You, too.

SIMON: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: The results of "Tonight's Poll," 96 percent of you saying the officials you elected are not adequately representing your views and interests? That number, 96 percent. No scientific but impressive.

We thank you for being with us here tonight. Please join us Monday evening, we'll have our special report on the Minuteman Project from the Arizona border and a great deal more, of course. For all of us here, we wish you a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. Stay with CNN. We bring you now a broadcast -- a rebroadcast of the funeral of Pope John Paul II from the Vatican.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 8, 2005 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Wolf, thank you. And we will be watching. Thank you, Judy. Thank you, Wolf. We're going to be, in the next hour, following up on some extraordinary stories we've been reporting on illegal immigration. And frankly, I think they're going to surprise you and our audience.
But that is next. We wish you both, Judy and Wolf, a very good evening and a great weekend.

Tonight here, we'll be reporting on the high cost of illegal immigration. Illegal aliens invading our emergency rooms all around the country, forcing many hospitals, in fact, to close, leaving thousands of U.S. citizens without medical care.

We'll also begin our examination of whether corruption in the agencies responsible for border protection may be contributing to our escalating illegal alien crisis.

Also tonight, "Flunking Out," the crisis in our public schools. Many of our students, teachers, and administrators are complete and abject failures. We'll be talking with a Harvard professor who says some of our schools are simply dropout factories.

And the pope laid to rest on a simple wooden coffin in the biggest funeral in history. My guest tonight, a leading authority on the papacy. He'll be discussing the future of the Catholic Church as the College of Cardinals prepare to select a new pope.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, a national health care crisis the White House and Congress simply refuse to acknowledge. The invasion of illegal aliens into our hospital emergency rooms is stretching, our health care system to the breaking point, leaving thousands of American citizens without care. And incredibly, the federal government has no idea how big this problem is.

Christine Romans has our exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jackson Memorial Hospital's emergency room treats more than 125,000 patients a year. Many of those are illegal aliens who never pay the bill.

FRANK BARRETT, CFO, JACKSON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: We have a burden that we clearly didn't ask for, but we're taking it on. We're treating everybody that comes through our door, and we treat everybody the same.

ROMANS: This hospital has long provided so-called charity care to Florida's poor and uninsured. But charity to a growing number of illegal aliens is stretching this hospital to the limit.

For every $1 of taxpayer funding, Jackson Memorial spends $1.66 in charity care.

(on camera) Illegal immigrants make very expensive patients. No health insurance, no preventative health care, often dangerous jobs, and their first point contact with our health care system is the emergency room.

DR. GERARD KAISER, JACKSON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: Because of their status, they often do not keep the follow-up appointments, and if there are then problems in the follow-up or particularly need to continue medication, if that's not done, then they return to the hospital and become what we call frequent flyers to the emergency room.

ROMANS (voice-over): One Florida congressman estimates those emergency room frequent flyers cost Florida hospitals and taxpayers more than $1 billion a year.

REP. MARK FOLEY (R), FLORIDA: It's just not fair for Floridians, for Americans to pick up the cost of some other country's citizen, when it certainly shouldn't fall on their shoulders.

ROMANS: But Americans are picking up the tab for illegal aliens, all over the country. In California, 84 hospitals have closed, overwhelmed by free health care to illegal aliens.

The 24 counties on the border with Mexico estimate they spent at least $200 million in 2000 and $13 million in unpaid ambulance bills. In New Jersey alone, county governments estimate they spend at least $200 million a year. In Los Angeles County, $340 million. In Harris County, Texas, $80 million. In Maricopa County, Arizona, $60 to $80 million.

DON STAPLEY, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES: It's overwhelming the system because we don't have the financial wherewithal. The tax burden is so great that we've had to cut back and just not offer the services.

ROMANS: Yet our federal government has no hard numbers on the effect of illegals on hospitals. The Government Accounting Office calls measuring the impact elusive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: But is not elusive for county governments who are cutting other services for citizens; for border hospitals who are shedding their maternity wards because they never get paid; for hospital administrators who, by law, must treat everyone and then must pass those costs onto paying patients, American taxpayers.

DOBBS: That is an extraordinary story. Jackson Hospital spending all of that money and care on illegal aliens. Human beings, as is often pointed out here, but nonetheless, displacing U.S. citizens from that care.

ROMANS: It's amazing, as well, they're spending $1 million a year on translators so that they can talk to people who are coming into their emergency room.

And you heard about their frequent flyers, people coming in over and over and over again, very sick in the first place. Lots of diseases. Lots of problems. Costs taxpayers there a lot of money. It's not sustainable for Jackson.

DOBBS: Not sustainable for Jackson. Obviously, for 84 hospitals in California and many of the hospitals in Texas, as well, across the border.

But the idea that measuring this crisis is elusive. The estimates, for example, on illegal immigration in this country range from the most benign estimate, which would be somewhere around eight million living in this country, to 20 million in the most recent study that we use on this broadcast which was conducted by Bear Stearns.

The fact that the government does not have a handle on this, is this utter incompetence or is the bureaucracy ensnared in just sheer incompetence?

ROMANS: Well, the counties, have been -- they have been measuring, and they've been telling the federal government, "Listen, we are trying to figure out how much." It's coming out of their county budgets for some of these county hospitals. They have been screaming and crying about this and still nothing from the federal government.

DOBBS: And of course from the federal government, there is Medicaid. After all, they do have a measure of that, but of course, they cannot ask whether or not a person is illegal or not, amongst the many absurdities of our federal government at this particular moment.

Christine, that is a shocking story. Thank you very much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

DOBBS: Christine Romans.

Another shocking illustration tonight of the way in which human traffickers are smuggling large numbers of illegal aliens into this country, in particular from the nation of Mexico.

A state trooper in Texas pulled over an 18-wheeler for a routine inspection on Interstate 20. That's near Abilene. Inside that trailer, the trooper discovered 48 illegal aliens, ranging in age to 13 to 55.

The trooper also found the truck driver did not have a commercial driver's license or a log book. The illegal aliens were handed over to the border patrol.

And elsewhere in Texas, prosecutors have charged a senior U.S. border patrol agent and his brother with accepting bribes from drug dealers. The two agents were named in a 12-page indictment unsealed in Laredo, Texas.

Prosecutors say the men received $1.5 million in bribes for allowing marijuana and cocaine through their checkpoint.

Critics of the Minuteman Project now under way in Arizona have been looking for any excuse possible to blast those volunteers trying to protect our border with Mexico.

Those critics believed they had found the perfect opportunity with an incident that was given wide media coverage this week by many news organizations that all but ignore our illegal alien crisis, but it turns out the reality very different from what was portrayed in that initial widespread media reaction.

Kitty Pilgrim has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Law enforcement officials say this illegal alien claimed he was detained, physically restrained by three Minutemen border volunteers, forced to hold a joke T-shirt while he was videotaped.

The T-shirt reads "Bryan Barton caught me crossing the border and all they got was this T-shirt."

Bryan Barton is a Minuteman Border Patrol volunteer, who gave him the shirt.

BYRON BARTON, MINUTEMAN VOLUNTEER: I'm a joke maker.

PILGRIM: But Barton's joke caused a furor. The Arizona ACLU on its web site called it, quote, harassment. Major news organizations ran stories. The illegal alien filed a legal complaint.

Barton says nonsense, just look at his tape of the incident.

BARTON: Basically we were driving down the road and saw a gentleman wandering over there and talked to him. And in fact called him over. He said he was very hungry. He needed food. We immediately gave him food. We immediately gave him water.

And as a matter of fact, he asked us to call the Border Patrol, because he was very hungry and he got separated from his group. So he asked for us to call the Border Patrol, and we did just exactly that.

I gave him $20 because I felt bad for him and his story. And I also gave him the shirt off my back quite literally. We shook hands. It was real kind of emotional.

PILGRIM: In the tape, as the illegal alien is taken away, he gives a thumbs-up to the Minutemen. Why does Barton think the man filed a complaint?

BARTON: I think that he was prodded by someone once he went into custody. I don't know exactly who or what.

PILGRIM: What does he have to say about that?

BARTON: I'd say, "Jose, it wasn't cool that you accused me of detaining you. And I'd like my $20 back."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The sheriff's department in Cochise, Arizona, where the incident took place, says they said they looked at tape. There is no base for any allegation against the Minutemen, which is hardly the powder keg atmosphere talked about by the Arizona ACLU.

And this by the way, Lou, is the only incident that's been reported against the Minutemen.

DOBBS: That may be one of the funniest pieces I have seen. The absurdity of those at the ACLU. I wonder who was prodding this young man in these unfortunate circumstances to bring forward a complaint.

PILGRIM: The legal case is dismissed.

DOBBS: Someone should be very embarrassed, and they have no association with the Minuteman Project.

PILGRIM: Luckily, they were rolling tape on it.

DOBBS: Isn't videotape a wonderful thing?

PILGRIM: It's a wonderful thing in this case. I'll tell you that.

DOBBS: And since we live with it, it's hard to get a misquote or a mischaracterization with it. Kitty Pilgrim, thank you very much for that enlightening, illuminating report.

Well, the joint terrorism task force in Atlanta tonight is investigating suspicious behavior now by a trainee pilot at a flight school in Georgia. That trainee pilot, an illegal alien, reportedly became aggressive when the flight school refused to accelerate his training schedule.

The FBI says the trainee then fled to the United Kingdom, but British police have not taken him into custody. Officials here say the trainee, however, is a person of interest.

Wal-Mart has been widely criticized for its labor practices. One issue is employee health care coverage. Critics charge that Wal-Mart is using taxpayer money to pay for employee health care. Now one state is taking action to make certain Wal-Mart is paying its fair share to cover the cost of employee health care.

Lisa Sylvester tonight reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maryland's legislature has passed a bill that would require companies with 10,000 employees or more to pay at least 8 percent of their payroll on health benefits or put the money into a Medicaid fund. It just so happens that Wal-Mart is the only large company that does not meet that requirement. Critics accuse the retail giant of using Medicaid and state programs for the poor as its health care plan.

VINCENT DEMARCO, MARYLAND CITIZENS HEALTH INITIATIVE: Many of the uninsured, people who don't have health care through these companies go on Medicaid, go on the CHIP program, and we subsidize them through our taxes.

SYLVESTER: Only half of Wal-Mart's employees are enrolled in the company-provided health care program. That amounts to about 7 to 8 percent of payroll in Maryland, just under the requirement. By comparison, the regional Giant Food grocery chain pays about 23 percent of its payroll on health care.

Wal-Mart executives blame the nature of the service industry with high turnover, and insist job creation helps take people off government roles. Wal-Mart part-timers are more eligible for insurance if they stick around for two years.

RAY BRACY, VICE PRESIDENT PUBLIC AFFAIRS, WAL-MART: We are creating an opportunity for people to have health care who have never had it before. It's not a race to the bottom. This is a company that provides opportunity, it provides decent jobs, it provides good benefits.

SYLVESTER: Congressman Chris Van Hollen calls companies who don't pay their share freeloaders and deadbeats. He wants to propose national legislation modeled after the Maryland bill.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: This is a way to require those companies to pay their fair share of the contribution, not penalize taxpayers and not penalize their competitors who are doing the right thing.

SYLVESTER: Supporters of the Maryland legislation say it's an idea that's even more imperative with the federal Medicaid program slated for cuts this year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: And this is not only an issue in Maryland. In Florida, Wal-Mart has more employees and family members eligible for Medicaid than any other company in the state, according to the Florida Department of Children and Families -- Lou. DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.

Mexico's political crisis is escalating tonight. That country's most popular politician is preparing to go to jail in a showdown with both President Vicente Fox and the principal opposition party.

More than 100,000 people protested in Mexico City to show their support for that politician, the leftist mayor of Mexico City whose supporters say he is facing trumped up charge as Vicente Fox tries to stop him from running in next year's presidential elections. The mayor is the clear favorite to win that election, by the way, and has gained support by introducing left-wing policies designed to help the impoverished in Mexico.

Coming up next here, the pope is laid to rest. His successor faces huge challenges. My guest a leading authority on the papacy.

And secret trade agreements. I'll be joined by a leading senator who says Congress has been brain dead on trade policy and issues.

That and more still ahead coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Pope John Paul II buried today in a crypt below St. Peter's Basilica after a two-and-a-half-hour funeral mass today. Leaders from all around the world attending the ceremony, along with millions of pilgrims who flocked to Vatican City. Some chanting for the pope to be made a saint. Today's funeral mass begins nine days of mourning.

And joining me now from Boston, Father John Paris. He's a professor at Boston College.

Father, it's good to have you with us. Your thoughts as you watched the largest funeral to ever take place in history?

REV. JOHN PARIS, PROFESSOR, BOSTON COLLEGE: My thoughts were not on the spender of the setting, nor on the power of the people there. My thoughts and the entire focus was on a simple wooden coffin.

No signs of power. No signs of authority. No flag. No papal tiara. Just the gospel.

That symbolized what Christians believe about life, that in the end we're all the same. Power is gone. And now it's a simple person, a simple soul before Christ, his judge.

DOBBS: And that simple soul, Pope John Paul II, talked about his concerns, his fears of rampant consumerism and materialism throughout the world. Do you believe that that will be a focus of his successor?

PARIS: I do. That's one of the overwhelming problems we face. And I think what you saw with all of those young people there, they're simply not satisfied with consumerism and with materialism. As St. Augustine put it, "Our hearts are restless till they rest in something more, till they rest in Thee." And so that's going to be the great test, how do we put spirituality back into a world that's consumed with material goods?

DOBBS: Well, just the world attention on Pope John Paul II, not only by Catholics, but people of all faiths and those who have no faith, was a significant departure this week. On the 18th of this month, the conclave begins that will result in the selection of a new pope. Talk of an absolute media blackout.

The cardinals are cloistered, as you well know. Why the concern about a media blackout?

PARIS: The concern there is they don't want any outside influence upon selection of the pope. They lock them in. The word "conclave" meaning with a key, precisely to prevent outside influences.

No telephones, no Internet. No means of communication. No newspapers. The hope is, not political influence but the spirit will be at work.

DOBBS: Well, seeking no influence whatsoever on the outcome, I'm pleased to say that Father Paris will be joining us on the 18th of this month to -- as we cover from a distance the deliberations of that conclave. And, of course, the decision that results.

Father John Paris, good to have you with us.

PARIS: Good to be here.

DOBBS: And CNN will be broadcasting Pope John Paul II's entire funeral ceremony this evening beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. For complete coverage of the funeral from the beginning to his burial beneath St. Peter's Basilica, CNN coverage at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Please be with us.

And coming up next here on this broadcast, the inspiring story of a brave U.S. Marine Corps captain who fought in Iraq. He says his reward is simply knowing he saved lives, and saved lives he did.

And one leading senator who says we are selling America piece by piece. We will hear from him next about what he's doing to stop it.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve our country. Tonight in "Heroes," the story of Marine Captain Armando Espinoza. He was awarded the military's Distinguished Flying Cross for risking his life to save the lives of his fellow Marines.

Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been awarded the highest honor a Marine navigator can receive for bravery while flying. But Captain Armando Espinoza says the real reward is knowing he saved the lives of 35 Marines.

CAPT. ARMANDO ESPINOZA, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We were doing our jobs. We were -- that's what our task was to do, was to get those Marines into a place where they can get help.

TUCKER: The Marines were injured during a firefight in Baghdad shortly after the war started. Captain Espinoza was flying a medevac helicopter. In a barrage of gunfire, he landed the chopper five separate times to rescue the wounded.

ESPINOZA: There's a helicopter spinning, I've got a headset on, I've got radio traffic coming in. All I see is the Marines just hit the deck and start shooting.

TUCKER: Espinoza credits his team for the mission's success.

ESPINOZA: I do remember a particular moment when I was asking our corpsman man in the back, HM2 Burnette (ph), how the casualties were doing. And he very calmly said over the radio, "They're doing fine, sir. Just fly the plane."

TUCKER: Espinoza served in Desert Storm and has completed two tours of duty in Iraq.

SGT. CHRIS OAKESON, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Captain Espinoza is just one of those officers that the crew chiefs get along with because he's a good pilot and he's also a good person. So he attracts people.

TUCKER: A fellow pilot believes the distinguished Flying Cross is well deserved.

CAPT. DAVID ROEN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Captain Espinoza, rather than just sitting back and waiting to be told what to do, came over the radios and volunteered for it, and told us what he was going to do, basically. Marines are alive because of it.

TUCKER: Espinoza is a flight safety officer now, continuing to serve at Camp Pendleton, California.

Bill tucker, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And we wish, and we know you do as well, Captain Espinoza the very best.

Coming up next here, why one leading senator says Congress has been brain dead on at least one critically important issue of economic and national security.

Also tonight, why Congress is ceding power to the White House on some of the most pressing critical issues facing this country. My guest a political science professor.

And flunking out. The crisis in our public schools. I'll be talking with a Harvard professor who says some of our schools are nothing other than dropout factories.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Senator Byron Dorgan says Congress made a mistake when it passed Fast Track Authority in 2002, giving President Bush the power to negotiate trade deals that Congress may only approve or reject and cannot amend. I talked with Senator Dorgan earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Senator, Congress till this point has shown little if any appetite for taking responsibility for being accountable for itself on important issues. Will Fast Track Authority be any different?

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, I hope so. But, you know, there's not much evidence that the Congress is willing to tackle these issues. They've been -- you know, with all due respect to the body in which I serve, the Congress has been pretty brain dead on issues.

Fast Track is the worst part of this trade issue, because Fast Track actually ties the hands of member of Congress when the president will bring to the Congress a new trade treaty that has been negotiated in secret, often which pulls the rug out from under American workers and American farmers.

DOBBS: And amongst those farmers are those who are toiling in Senator Charles Grassley's home state. He is going along with allowing the automatic extension of Fast-track authority, is he not?

DORGAN: Well, I've introduced this resolution of disapproval. And now I've got to go talk to Senator Grassley.

He has indicated that he wants to bottle up the resolution of this type in the Senate Finance Committee. But, you know, look, we have to wage this fight.

We have a crippling trade deficit in this country. We have jobs being outsourced overseas, left and right. And now we have not only a bad trade agreement coming to us called the CAFTA Agreement, but they want to negotiate new agreements, and they want to do that under something called Fast Track Again.

And, you know, I intend to fight it. It's the wrong thing to do.

Finally this country and this Congress needs to stand up and decide this trade policy doesn't work. It's undermining this country.

DOBBS: At least the Senate voted by, what was it, 65-35 in favor of the amendment introduced by Senator Schumer to impose some restrictions on China if it doesn't bring our trade relationship into balance. Is there hope here, any glimmer of hope that actually Congress, if not this administration, could awaken to the realities in which we find ourselves?

DORGAN: Well, I hope so. I mean, every trade agreement should have a shock absorber for currency fluctuations. Because these currency fluctuations or the manipulation of a currency can undermine any trade agreement.

But frankly, even without currency manipulations, you know, the fact is our workers in this country can't compete with 30-cent-an-hour labor. We can't compete with plants that are able to produce where they have no environmental restrictions, they can hire kids and work them 12 hours a day and pay them 12 cents an hour.

We can't compete with that. There ought to be some basic admission price to the American marketplace. And that's what trade agreements ought to be as well. I support expanding trade, but I darn sure want to make sure it's fair trade.

DOBBS: Expanding trade to this point has meant opening our markets, the richest market in the world, to foreign producers and exporting very little if anything. Of course we make very little if anything in this country anymore. So one wonders how we can ever generate exports.

Do you know?

DORGAN: Absolutely. Almost $2 billion a day, Lou.

We buy more in foreign goods coming into this country than we sell. Almost $2 billion a day, seven days in a week.

In effect, we're selling America piece by piece. It's unbelievable. And nobody wants to wake up and do something about it except you. And thanks for what you do on your program to call attention to the outsourcing of jobs and what happens when you have the kind of trade deficit we have in this country.

DOBBS: And what will happen, as you very well know, Senator Dorgan, is not a pleasant thing for any of us in this country to contemplate.

Senator, we thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it.

DORGAN: Thank you, Lou.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And a new poll tonight shows Americans both Democrats and Republicans are not very impressed with the job Congress is doing, not impressed at all. The Associated Press/Ipsus poll shows only 37 percent of those polled have a favorable opinion of Congress.

My guest tonight is the author of "Delegating Powers," Sharon O'Halloran, professor of political science at Columbia University. Good to have you with us.

SHARON O'HALLORAN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Great to be here.

DOBBS: Professor, as low as the president's approval rating is now, Congress' is even lower. Part of the reason as Senator Dorgan and I were discussing is this Congress continues to seed power to the executive, whether it be on trade policies, whether it be on oversight. What in the world is going on?

O'HALLORAN: Well, you have a unified Congress. You have a unified Congress that's in the same party as the president. They share a lot of the same policy, goals and agendas. So what you're seeing is Congress delegating authority, considerable discretionary authority to the executive to enact his policy agenda.

DOBBS: And as we look over the most recent history, whether it on trade policy, whether it be in examining closely, intelligence. Admittedly the Republicans are in authority, but the Democrats for many people at least, many observers, they don't seem to be much different than Republicans in their philosophies or their values.

O'HALLORAN: Well, I think on trade -- on issues in which they disagree with the Republicans such as the trade policy issues, such as Social Security, you are actually seeing that the Democrats are beginning to cohere and act as an opposition party. And I think that is what is happening.

And also the Republicans are beginning to split with the Bush administration on Social Security.

DOBBS: On Social Security, on point in fact, on immigration policy, on a number of issues. But the fact is the functioning aspect of the institution is really at a critical juncture, at least it seems to me. What are your thoughts?

O'HALLORAN: Well, the delegation of authority from Congress to the executive has actually have a long history. And you see this usually in times of unified control of both the House -- both houses of Congress and the presidency where Congress is willing to seed authority to the executive to make decisions on important policy. And that's exactly what's going on here.

DOBBS: But the effect, professor, has it not been that a system of checks and balances and three separate but equal, equal branches of government are no longer equal?

O'HALLORAN: It's not clear that when the policy preferences of the president and Congress actually diverge -- when they have a lot of conflict over policy, that in fact, you won't see Congress become an active party in this. And that is really what's going on.

DOBBS: And do you have any thought that if Democrats were in power, it would be any different.

O'HALLORAN: Yes, I do. For example when the Clinton administration tried to renew its fast track authority in the 1997 it was unable to do so just because the Republican controls the Congress -- the House at that time. So yes, I would expect very different types of policies being enacted.

DOBBS: OK. Professor, we thank you for being with us here.

O'HALLORAN: Thank you.

DOBBS: That brings us to subject of our poll tonight. "Do you believe the officials you elected are adequately representing your views and your interests? Yes or no." Please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Margaret Mood in Santa Ana, California, "by allowing employers to hire illegal immigrants and at the same time disallowing legal status to those employees, Congress is helping to create an underclass which supports our economy, yet has no legal status. Shouldn't the civil have taught us that we can't have it both ways?"

Tim Donnelly in Twin Peaks, California, "my only regret about participating in the Minuteman Project is that I missed your show while out on patrol." We thank you.

And Mary Newman in Flagstaff, Arizona, "it angers me when politicians say that illegal aliens are just coming here to work. If that were true, our prisons wouldn't be full of citizens from Mexico."

And in Hollywood, Florida, "I am Hispanic and I'm not offended by any comments you make. I am completely against illegal immigration. And what you portray on your show is faithful, truthful and it's not one-sided. I'm happy to see someone talking about the issues that truly affect us. Moreover, I don't believe your comments are racists." We appreciate that.

John O'Mara from Deckerville, Michigan, wrote in about our story last night on the president of the National Association of Manufacturers in support of CAFTA. Is this the same John Engler who devastated the state of Michigan in the '80's and '90's. The same John Engler who was a key campaigner for President George W. Bush. If it is, the statement comes as no surprise to anyone in the state of Michigan."

We love hearing your thoughts. E-mail us at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy book of "Exporting America."

And if you would like to receive our e-mail newsletter, our Web site is loudobbs.com. Sign up there please.

Still ahead, I'll be joined by three of this nation's top political journalist. We'll be talking about what has been a event- filled week.

And also ahead, flunking out. The dropout crisis in our nation's public schools. Why many of our teacher, administers, and students are simply failing. I will be talking with a Harvard professor who says many our schools are nothing less than drop-out factories. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now, some of the important stories we're following here tonight. Accused Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph today avoided the death penalty. He made a plea deal with prosecutors. Rudolph agreed to plead guilty to a number of bombings, including one during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Rudolph faces life in prison.

The crew of the Shuttle Discovery says for the first time it won't fly that spacecraft unless NASA implements all of the recommendations of the safety commission. The 7 astronauts are due to fly to the International Spacestation as early as May 15.

So far, NASA has met only 7 of the 15 safety recommendations proposed by the commission on the Colombia disaster two years ago. One can only salute those astronauts for demanding what should be in effect now.

And the head of the Transportation Security Administration is stepping down. David Stone, the third TSA chief to leave in three years, the third in three years. No reason given for the decision. A replacement has not been named.

And dropout rates among minorities in U.S. high schools are simply staggering. A recent study conducted by the Civil Rights Project at Harvard found that only about half of the African-American and Latino males graduated from California high schools on time.

My next guest says schools are nothing less but dropouts. Gary Orfield is a professor at education and the director of the Civil Right Project at Harvard, also the author of "Dropouts in America," joining us tonight from Boston. Good to have you here.

GARY ORFIELD, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Great to be with you.

DOBBS: Gary, we have discussed this issue. The fact is that no one in our audience is surprised to hear that we have a crisis in our schools. I suppose the real question is, why in the world is nothing being done to save the lives, the futures of those young men and women?

ORFIELD: We have been concentrating so much on giving students tests and looking at just the test scores that we haven't really looked at anything else. And our dropout rate actually quite a bit higher than it was back in the Johnson administration. And it's been going up steadily.

DOBBS: Professor, let me ask you, just to interrupt you for a second to put up a graphic here so our audience can follow these numbers that you put forward. And these are the dropout rates of high school students by ethnicity and race. And there you see it, broken down: Asian, 76.8 percent graduation rate, White, 74.9, Hispanic 53.2, Native American 51.1, African-American 50.2 percent. Now, I have to say, those are just utterly stunning numbers. No matter how inured we are to the problems of public education, to see that kind of dropout rate is gut-wrenching.

ORFIELD: But if you understand, the United States now has 41 percent nonwhite students in all our public schools. And these students just aren't making it, and they're not getting prepared for the economy. And there really is no program out there to address this or even to get honest data about it.

DOBBS: Well, forgive me. We have -- we're spending so much more money than we were 40 years ago, when we started focusing on minorities and education. Forty -- exactly 40 years ago, in point of fact. But money isn't solving the problem. We have a number of forces at work here. The fact is, African-Americans, those students with that level of dropout rate, it's so frustrating and annoying and befuddling, it's almost ineffable to express the dimension of disappointment in it.

What is going on in our educational system? We hear talk about government and unions. But what are -- what is going on with the institutions themselves and our local communities?

ORFIELD: Well, we haven't been focusing on this issue. We really haven't been working on the graduation rate. And we have really been working with mostly really young kids, trying to deal with preschool and early elementary school.

We need to look at kids and realize they all grow up, and when they're adolescents, they have problems. And adolescence in high- poverty areas, segregated from the rest of the society, have greater -- much greater problems.

So we need to help these kids. We need to make sure that they're monitored. We need to have high standards. And we need to be relentless in keeping them in school. And we have almost no counselors in these schools. We have very little resources for them to help kids who come in way behind.

DOBBS: What about the role of parents and the role of discipline? I can't tell you how many times I hear that teachers and administrators are absolutely frightened to death to even think about disciplining a student or insisting that discipline be part of the institution, or the number of parents who simply hand off their children to a system, in this case, the public schools.

ORFIELD: Well, it's clear that having parents who are educated and involved is a huge advantage to kids, and having schools where there's a lot of parents like that, kids do much better. And parents have got to monitor their kid and make sure they're taking their courses and going to school. And the schools have got to let the parents know what's going on.

We have a lot of schools in our big cities now where there really aren't people in the schools who can talk to the parents who come from other places, don't speak English. And we don't have much to help those parents in adult education.

We really need to work on all dimensions of this thing. But the first thing we need to do is be honest about the problem and create a goal and accountability for our schools to make it better.

DOBBS: Well, I want to compliment you, because you are certainly at the forefront of being honest about the problem, because with the orthodox and the political correctness that is enshrouding our public educational system, I can't tell you how many schools and administrators, counselors, and so-called experts who've said, I just do not want to discuss what is happening with the testing of minority students in this country, which, to me, is, as you say, it is -- it's just another wall between us and a solution.

ORFIELD: I...

DOBBS: And we complement you for your work. Professor, thank you very much for being with us. We're going to talk, I hope, in the very near future as we wrestle with this problem.

ORFIELD: Thank you very much.

DOBBS: Professor Gary Orfield, thank you, sir.

ORFIELD: Thank you.

DOBBS: How one company is taking a stand against the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. We'll have that special report for you.

And the most important stories of the week, with tonight's newsmaker.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As you know, we focus here extensively on the devastation caused by U.S. companies that export U.S. jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.

Tonight, new evidence that outsourcing can be even more damaging to Americans and our economy.

Police have arrested 12 men in India for allegedly stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from American Citibank customers. Three of those men were former employees of an Indian outsourcing firm who have been charged with misusing financial data and illegally withdrawing money from the accounts of New York-based customers.

Citigroup responded to the story by saying, "We've made these customers whole for the funds that were fraudulently taken from their accounts. That case is currently being investigated by local authorities in India."

So now theft from a New York citizen is an Indian jurisdictional problem.

Forrester Research says that incident could slow outsourcing growth in India, suggesting that it may slow it by as much as a third.

Tonight, we feature an American company dedicated to keeping jobs here. Go Daddy Software gaining national attention during this year's Super Bowl with a controversial commercial that was banned by network censors, in fact. Now, Go Daddy is gaining attention and winning some praise for refusing to export American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.

Casey Wian reports from Gilbert, Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, TV COMMERCIAL)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go Daddy, Go Daddy, go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You may remember this Super Bowl commercial, which Fox pulled from the broadcast after a similar ad aired earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (on phone): Thank you for contacting customer support. This is Ian speaking.

WIAN: The publicity helped Go Daddy grab more than a quarter of the global Internet domain registration market. But Go Daddy's founder says the real secret is his refusal to send its call center, software development, or any other part of the business to cheap overseas labor markets.

BOB PARSONS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, GODADDY.COM: Very happy to tell you that the Gilbert call center in the good old U.S. of A. is now open.

Our employees are required to really understand what our customers need and to relate to them, and also to help our customers with a wide variety of products.

I probably get two or three calls a day to move the call center to India, Russia, Canada, lately starting to hear about moving it to China. But, you know, I tell them, I just -- I'm not interested, because what we have here works. Wouldn't work overseas.

WIAN: Labor costs here would make an outsourcer cringe, $14 to $18 an hour. Top performers make twice that. Regular contests help them stay motivated. Right now, the company is giving away a year's mortgage or rent, plus paying the tax liability, to two staffers. Two others get trips to Hawaii.

J.R. BRISCOE, EMPLOYEE: I won a 42-inch flat-screen plasma TV that I got just in time for the Super Bowl.

WIAN: This board shows the number of callers on hold and their average waiting time. It's too high, so a manager takes charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, let's hit this. Time to do what we do.

WIAN: Within minutes, the waiting time is cut in half. Employees say customers notice the difference.

PAMELA OROZCO, EMPLOYEE: I've had a few who are happy that after calling Microsoft or whoever they called, that they were speaking to somebody in America.

WIAN: During the past eight months, Go Daddy's call center staff doubled. Profitability jumped 1,000 percent.

Casey Wian, CNN, Gilbert, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Three U.S. senators are calling for a full investigation into Tyco's proposed sale of critical U.S.-built infrastructure to an Indian company.

As we reported exclusively here, Tyco International planning to sell Advanced Underseas Fiberoptic Cable Networks to a company partly owned by the Indian government. Senator Jon Kyl, Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator Ted Stevens asking that the secret Committee on Foreign Investments investigate that deal. In a letter to Treasury Secretary John Snow, who chairs the committee, the lawmakers wrote, "The Tyco global network is a strategic asset of incalculable value to United States security and commercial interest. We believe the transaction warrants a full and thorough review."

That network, broadband more than $3 billion invested, the price that it's being sold for $130 million. The Committee on Foreign Investment reviews any deals that could have implications for national security. That committee, however, doesn't comment publicly about any of it's activities, so there is no where to know whether it's taking up the review.

A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe the officials you elected are adequately represent your views and interests, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. The results coming up here shortly. Still ahead, our newsmakers and a preview of what's coming up Monday. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now, our newsmakers. Joining me tonight from Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times."

Karen, let me begin quickly with you. The president, two former presidents, the first lady at the pontiff's funeral. A significant departure from tradition, its meaning?

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, as you know, this is the first U.S. President to attend a pope's funeral. I think it just -- it just speaks to the -- you know the degree to which this event has sort of galvanized the world, has captured world attention. Of course, it's impossible to overlook the fact, too, though that there is also a political angle in here, as we are three political reporters. And George Bush has been incredibly successful as a Republican winning a traditionally Catholic Democratic vote. And I think to some degree that is reflected too in his desire to be over there and part of this event.

DOBBS: And, Roger Simon, the president's approval rating dropping, sitting in the mid 40s according to most polls. What is happening that isn't working in the first few months of his second term?

ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I think that year might go down as the year the Republicans overreached. It's not uncommon for a second-term president to overreach especially in the beginning. But I think he has overreached on the Social Security privatization. I still don't think there's a constituency for that.

I think he overreached along with Republicans in Congress on the Schiavo case. And the recent attack on judges by Tom DeLay and Cornyn of Texas. And I think, they've also overreached on this nuclear option, to change the rules about filibustering. I don't think the public has reacted well to any of those things.

RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Lou, can I just jump in there. The president from the beginning, I think has a very conscience strategy, trying to mobilize his base even at the cost of polarizing the rest of the country. If worked for him in the election of 2004. He increased the share of voters of Republicans and Conservatives.

But you look at these polls now, there is the widest gap in the history of polling between the views of his performance among Republicans and Democrats, over 70 points. His approval rating among independents is down to about 34 percent. It hasn't been over 50 percent of among Americans who call themselves moderates in over a year. In essentially, in this environment, as Roger says, what he is doing continues to win high marks among Republican, whether it's Social Security or judges or Terri Schiavo, but it is having a cost in polarizing and alienating a lot of other voters.

DOBBS: Karen, as Ron suggests, the president has a lot of baggage going there and the weight is take his numbers down. But at same time, we see Congress, its numbers are even lower. In point in fact, the GOP within Congress is splitting. Perhaps because they -- many of them will be running for election next year and at least two issues are in absolute countervailing position to the public. Immigration, Social Security, what's going on?

TUMULTY: Well, I think one of the things that's going on is that Congress has become almost incapable of getting anything at all done. If you look back at times when public approval of Congress has been the highest it has been when the two sides have been able to get together and work on anything. The only two bipartisan issues that we have seen Congress deal with, on a bipartisan basis in the last few months, have been Terri Schiavo and steroids in sports. And you know, this is not getting the people's business done.

DOBBS: Not getting the people's business done, but the Republican Party is in charge of both Houses, the White House. Will there be a price to be paid on the part of the Republicans next year, Roger, if indeed this continues?

SIMON: It's possible. Although, the sad fact is in American politics is that incumbents almost never lose. And it's all a matter of how many open seats there are. How many of those seats are really in contention. And I don't think many people are betting now that the Republicans will lose control in either of House or the Senate.

BROWNSTEIN: Other factor, Lou, is who votes? The Bush strategy really is different from what many presidents before it have pursued. They don't worry as much about alienating that voter in the middle if they believe their cores will activate their core supporters to come in larger numbers. And if you ask the Bush people about his declining approval ratings, they say that's interesting. The real question is, what are his numbers among the people who actually come out to vote? So, they feel even if they're losing with the mass public, they might be gaining by motivating their own voters.

DOBBS: I don't know what your feedback is, but I will tell you the viewers of this broadcast, as they have expressed themselves to e- mails to us, at least, and phone calls, are getting -- are very favorable about the Minuteman Project, expressions of support for citizens taking on responsibility of both Congress and the president are failing to do. Do you see perhaps a sea-change here that the clever mavens (ph) in Washington don't?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I mean, I think the feeling is the first week probably was less turbulent than people expected it. Still, look, it's a very controversial idea to have a large number of people out there on the border acting on their own. In the end, it may take a broader solution than just more enforcement to really get a handle on this.

DOBBS: All right, thank you very much, Ron Brownstein, Karen Tumulty, Roger Simon. Please have great weekends. Thanks for being here.

BROWNSTEIN: We'll work at it.

TUMULTY: You, too.

SIMON: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: The results of "Tonight's Poll," 96 percent of you saying the officials you elected are not adequately representing your views and interests? That number, 96 percent. No scientific but impressive.

We thank you for being with us here tonight. Please join us Monday evening, we'll have our special report on the Minuteman Project from the Arizona border and a great deal more, of course. For all of us here, we wish you a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. Stay with CNN. We bring you now a broadcast -- a rebroadcast of the funeral of Pope John Paul II from the Vatican.

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