Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Eric Rudolph Plea; Remembering the Pope; Witness Intimidation

Aired April 13, 2005 - 05:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Time for our DAYBREAK "Eye-Openers" right now. Let's get right to them.
Nearly half a million people every year take a ride on Hungary's "Children's Railway." The full-sized train is operated almost entirely by children between the ages of 10 and 14. The kids, who do everything but drive the train, and thank goodness for that, there is an excuse from...

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I was wondering.

COSTELLO: That would be bad. Anyway, they're excused from school to work on the railroad.

There's a real live whale swimming in Trenton, New Jersey -- Chad.

MYERS: The Delaware River. There he is.

COSTELLO: It's crazy.

MYERS: He's a beluga.

COSTELLO: This is right near the city's Minor League Baseball stadium. Somehow this 11-foot long beluga made its way 80 miles up the Delaware River from the Atlantic Ocean. Police patrolling the river have been keeping boaters at a safe distance while trying to coax the whale back down the river.

MYERS: I think all that fresh water that we had with all that rain the past couple of weeks will probably coax him back down toward the saltwater eventually.

COSTELLO: We hope so. He looks like he's having a good time, though.

MYERS: Yes, he's having fun.

COSTELLO: One woman living near Atlanta has traded in her gas- guzzling pickup truck for a one-horse power version. Take a look here -- Chad.

MYERS: That's a mule.

COSTELLO: It's a mule, you're right. The woman says she's tired of paying high gas prices, so she hitches up Miss Bell (ph), that's the mule,... MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... just to prove a point, and I don't know.

MYERS: I don't know. But in New York, you have to pay for that. That's a handsome cab ride, right?

COSTELLO: I think you're right.

MYERS: Right, she gets to ride for free.

COSTELLO: Here's what's all new in the next half-hour of DAYBREAK.

Long security lines at the nation's busiest airport could be getting even longer. A messy mandate could increase your wait.

Plus, a young woman dies for telling the truth. Some say she was a tattle tale, but now lawmakers in one state consider the risks and rewards of keeping snitches a secret.

And a reminder, our e-mail "Question of the Day," is it right or wrong to shoot stray cats? DAYBREAK@CNN.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toll Brothers is constructing an empire house by house. The luxury homebuilder breaks ground on the Fortune 500 list at No. 477 and has built its reputation by mass producing the most expensive homes of any major builder in America.

The key to the company's success, build luxury homes with the same efficient mass production techniques used on low-cost starter homes. "Fortune" magazine considers Toll Brothers the hottest stock of any builder on the Fortune 500 list, rising over 90 percent in 2004 to $77 per share. But with interest rates slowly creeping upward, Toll Brothers may soon have to curb its development.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning to you, welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

"Now in the News."

Three separate bombs targeted U.S. military convoys in Baghdad today three hours apart. There are no reports of American casualties, but some Iraqis are wounded.

Scientists around the world are scrambling to destroy vials of a deadly 1957 pandemic flu strain. The World Health Organization is urging the destruction because of a slight risk to the public. In the Michael Jackson trial, cross-examination resumes today for the stepfather of Jackson's accuser. And later this week, the accuser's mother is expected to take the stand.

Attendance was light as school reopened for the first time since the shooting spree in Red Lake, Minnesota. It's been three weeks since a teenaged gunman killed seven people and himself at the school.

To the Forecast Center.

Morning -- Chad.

MYERS: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: All right, thank you -- Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: We begin this half-hour with the next step for accused bomber Eric Rudolph. He will appear in a Birmingham, Alabama courtroom this morning and an Atlanta courtroom later this afternoon.

Rudolph's deal with prosecutors calls for him to plead guilty to four bombings. They include the Olympic Park bombing in 1996 and the attack on a Birmingham women's clinic in 1998. Sentencing will take place at a later date, but the deal calls for Rudolph to avoid the death penalty. Instead, he will serve four consecutive life sentences.

For more on the Rudolph plea, we're joined from Birmingham by CNN investigative producer Henry Schuster. Henry is also the co-author of "Hunting Eric Rudolph," a look at the case and the chase of the bombing suspect.

Good morning.

HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER: Good morning, Carol. How are you?

COSTELLO: I'm fine. You know this plea deal is somewhat surprising to me, because, I mean, this guy killed two people. He plants a bomb at the Olympics, embarrassing the United States and Atlanta, and causing panic. Why did prosecutors come to this deal?

SCHUSTER: That's a good question. And apparently the deal was done at the direction of the new U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Prosecutors in Atlanta and in Birmingham had been prepared to go for the maximum sentence.

I did speak with one former U.S. attorney here in Birmingham who hinted that while they were sure they would get a conviction, that they had some doubts that they might get the death penalty for what he euphemistically referred to as cultural reasons, as if to say that they might not get the death penalty because of the abortion issue.

The government will say that it was a good deal because Rudolph gave up the location of 250 pounds of dynamite that was at five separate sites in North Carolina. One of those sites was actually right across the road from what had been the operation center for a time for the task force that spent five-and-a-half years looking for Rudolph.

COSTELLO: Henry, I want to bring you back to that cultural issue idea you had. That's pretty shocking to me. I mean whatever you believe, this man killed two people.

SCHUSTER: Yes, you know, Carol, the previous attorney generals, Janet Reno and John Ashcroft, have been very blunt. This was a case, they said, of domestic terrorism, and it would be treated like anything else in the war on terrorism.

And in fact, in north Florida, which is also an area that is not necessarily particularly sympathetic, Paul Hill, a man who had shot a doctor, shot and killed a doctor outside an abortion clinic, was not only given the death sentence, but that death sentence has already been carried out.

So that reason is a little bit, well, it's something that prosecutors will certainly have to answer today when they hold news conferences after the plea deals are reached.

COSTELLO: Well, Henry, another thought for you, if a member of al Qaeda had planted a bomb in Centennial Park in Atlanta, I mean this guy maimed people there, he injured 120 people, would it have been different?

SCHUSTER: Well that does raise a very important question, is there a double standard for domestic terrorism? You know it's very important that coming up now, both with this sentencing and with the Tim McVeigh, the 10th anniversary of Oklahoma City, we've forgotten about domestic terrorism since 9/11. That doesn't necessarily mean domestic terrorists have forgotten about us.

The only person so far in this country to have been found and convicted of having weapons of mass destruction was a guy out in Texas named William Krar who had militia connections. He had enough sodium cyanide to kill everybody in a 30,000 square foot building.

COSTELLO: Well Timothy McVeigh was put to death. He certainly...

SCHUSTER: Yes, Tim McVeigh was put to death. And you know he said, after a certain point after the death sentence was passed, he waived his right to appeal.

Eric Rudolph was given the chance for life in prison. And you have to think that in the back of his mind that a guy who spent five- and-a-half years on the run in the woods says that this is just another phase of survival for him. His defense attorneys are believed that they're going to put out a statement later today saying why he did it. It'll be very interesting to hear what he has to say.

COSTELLO: Yes, it will.

Henry Schuster, co-author of "Hunting Eric Rudolph," and also an investigative producer for CNN, thank you for joining us live from Birmingham this morning.

Much more ahead on CNN DAYBREAK.

The lines are forming again in Rome. In just a few minutes, we'll take you there live as pilgrims still mourn the pope. In fact, they opened it up and you can see the pope's crypt now.

And rappers have a warning for tattle tales, you snitch, you die. At 49 minutes past, what police and prosecutors are doing to break the silence.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Wednesday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Pope John Paul II's tomb is now open to the public for the first time since the pontiff's funeral.

Our Dick Uliano viewed the gravesite before today's opening. He joins us now live from Rome.

Good morning -- Dick.

DICK ULIANO, CNN RADIO: Good morning to you, Carol, from Rome.

COSTELLO: What was it like?

ULIANO: It's very touching, actually. It's obviously a very sanctified area. It's historic. I think that people who enjoy history would be interested in seeing the crypts below St. Peter's Church. And certainly the faithful would be interested in seeing the graves of those who have sat on the throne of St. Peter.

The pope's grave is a very simple grave. It's in a whitewashed alcove, just a few steps from the ornate burial tomb of St. Peter, the Apostle. So, you know, not far away are these ornately decorated stone coffins of some previous popes, such as a sarcophagus to one of the benedict popes that has a bronze likeness of that pope lying in repose on top of the stone coffin.

But for Pope John Paul II's grave, it's very simple, whitewashed walls and a marble relief of Madonna and child. A white marble slab covers the remains of the pope. And it's adorned simply with a lily plant and a burning candle at the foot of the grave -- Carol.

COSTELLO: How long were the lines and does it cost anything to get in?

ULIANO: No, it's free to visit the crypts below St. Peter's Church. And there were people standing in line an hour or so before it opened to the public for the first time this morning since the pope's funeral on Friday.

But, Carol, gone are the long lines of the viewing for the pope's body prior to the funeral last week. And it only takes maybe 15 minutes to 30 minutes to wait in line to get inside. And once inside, people are passing rather quickly by the grave, but there's enough time for some to say a brief prayer. And for some, Carol, it's moved some people to tears.

COSTELLO: I bet so.

Dick Uliano, CNN Radio, joining DAYBREAK this morning live from Rome, thank you.

You'll get to see the pope's funeral through the eyes of one of the millions of pilgrims who flocked to the Vatican for the historical burial. That's in the next hour of DAYBREAK. And, boy, this man took some incredible pictures. Wait until you see them.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:46 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Word just coming in to CNN that 12 Iraqi guards were killed while trying to defuse a roadside bomb in Kirkuk. They had successfully deactivated one bomb. The second explosive killed them.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in Afghanistan this morning. He arrived today after a one-day visit to Iraq. Rumsfeld will meet with U.S. commanders and troops fighting the war on terrorism.

In money news, Wal-Mart wants to make up for some of the wildlife habitats that are lost when it builds one of its humongous superstores. The company is pledging $35 million dollars to buy land for a priority wildlife project during the next 10 years.

In culture, the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain will be home to the world's largest permanent indoor sculpture, shown here in model form. Artist Richard Serra is working on the steel piece that will be more than 430 feet long. It will weigh about 1,200 tons.

In sports, the Boston Celtics bested Philadelphia 105 to 98 to control the Atlantic Division. Paul Pierce scored 27 points for the Celtics, moving them closer toward clinching the division title. Five games remain.

I didn't even realize it was still basketball season.

MYERS: Isn't basketball over yet?

COSTELLO: I know.

MYERS: Yes, it shouldn't go on past the -- after the Final Four, pro ball should be over as well. It's like, enough. Anyway, if you haven't got hockey season.

Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you -- Chad.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you now.

Prosecutors in Baltimore are facing a growing problem, witnesses of major crimes are refusing to speak out fearing for their lives. We'll show you how the justice system is fighting back.

You are watching DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You see a crime, you'd tell authorities, right? Well that's the way it should work. But judges and prosecutors say intimidation of witnesses, from threats to outright violence, is a growing problem.

CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL GRIM, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: All right. Come on, get something to eat.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Carol Grim lovingly tends to the parakeets her youngest daughter gave her shortly after her eldest girl was killed.

GRIM: There's nothing like losing a child. You never get over it. Doesn't matter how old they are or how young they are your child is your child.

ARENA: Carol's daughter, Angela, the brunette on the right, witnessed a murder six years ago and told police about it. For that, she was fatally shot.

GRIM: Angela was trying to run up the steps, and then she was shot once in the back and twice in the back of the head and was killed instantly.

ARENA: The killing took place in suburban Maryland, not far from the streets of Baltimore, where prosecutors say witness intimidation touches nearly every homicide case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To all you rats and snitches lucky enough to cop one of these DVD, I hope you catch AIDS in your mouth, and your lip's the first thing to die.

ARENA: The problem is so pervasive that when local filmmaker and business owner, Rodney Bethea, told locals to rap on camera about what was on their minds, it is all they talked about. RODNEY BETHEA, PRODUCER, "STOP SNITCHIN'": As we started to gather their footage and we were looking back at it, everyone was pretty much talking about the snitching topic. So that's how "Stop Snitchin" was born.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I do talk tough. And I do it to your face (ph).

ARENA: The DVD is extremely controversial, because the message seems to be keep your mouth shut or else.

BETHEA: There are greater issues that cause these things to happen. Only thing I'm doing is showing you the reality of what happened. I'm not glorifying it, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just showing you the reality.

ARENA: Copies of the DVD are in nearly every office at Maryland State Capitol, courtesy of veteran prosecutor Patricia Jessamy who says witness intimidation is growing more violent.

PATRICIA JESSAMY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE ATTORNEY: I've been in the Baltimore City State's Attorney Office now for 18 years. I have prosecuted arson cases and all kinds of other violent crime cases, but this is the first time I have seen criminals who are so emboldened.

ARENA: Jessamy is lobbying in support of a state bill to increase the maximum penalty for witness intimidation from 5 to 20 years in prison, and to allow witness statements to be used in court even if the witnesses themselves do not or cannot appear.

JESSAMY: We lose 25 percent of our non-fatal shootings because witnesses either go underground, they cannot be found, or when they come to court, if we can find them, they recant their testimony.

ARENA: Baltimore's Police Department even created a special squad for the sole purpose of tracking down witnesses to homicides who don't show.

DET. LIEUT. BRIAN MATULONIS, BALTIMORE POLICE: Right now we're going to the south part of Baltimore City, and we're looking for two witnesses that have failed to appear for a trial that's going on right now.

ARENA (on camera): Part of the problem is fear. The other is money. States cannot afford to provide protection for all witnesses. And those who do get protection usually only get it for as long as the trial lasts.

(voice-over): Carol Grim says that should not stop anyone from coming forward and doing the right thing, just like her daughter did.

GRIM: I'm very proud of her, for standing up for her rights, for not being afraid, for telling the police what he did, and at least getting him and a couple of other ones off the street.

ARENA: Kelli Arena, CNN, Baltimore. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: We are approaching the halfway mark on DAYBREAK. In the next hour, the FDA takes a second look at silicone breast implants. Will surgeons be allowed to use them again?

And another state endorses English as its official language. We'll look at what the heck that means day in and day out.

You're watching DAYBREAK for Wednesday, April 13.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're getting a lot of e-mail.

MYERS: Do you have a headache?

COSTELLO: I do from reading so much e-mail.

MYERS: At least 500 of them out there.

COSTELLO: Take it away then. The question this morning, they're thinking about allowing people to hunt feral cats in Wisconsin. So our question, shooting strays: right or wrong?

Go ahead -- Chad.

MYERS: Sydney (ph) in Houston says giving a home to a stray cat is a great idea until a child gets rabies, then it's not such a great idea, is it -- Carol?

COSTELLO: This is from Delpha (ph) from Charles Town, West Virginia. I think the Wisconsin legislature is insane. I cannot believe that they're going to allow people to shoot cats. What's wrong with them? What will be next, shooting dogs? Cats are not considered rodents, they're pets. It brought tears to my eyes to look at my cat and think someone might shoot her if she gets out.

MYERS: Yes, they're going to have put collars on all those cats, all the domestic kitty cats, if this happens.

Anyway, cats kill an estimated one million birds per night, says Bill (ph) from Newport Richie. Cat owners need to keep them more responsible and keep them indoors, then the problem would not go to this drastic measure, would it -- Carol?

COSTELLO: You know this -- you did not put your name, but it's a good one, so I'm going to read it. I think killing stray animals is disgusting. What's next, are we going to start killing homeless people, too? Killing animals just goes to show how little respect people have for life. The planet is not just for people. The arrogance of humans.

One more before we have to go to the six.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 13, 2005 - 05:29   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Time for our DAYBREAK "Eye-Openers" right now. Let's get right to them.
Nearly half a million people every year take a ride on Hungary's "Children's Railway." The full-sized train is operated almost entirely by children between the ages of 10 and 14. The kids, who do everything but drive the train, and thank goodness for that, there is an excuse from...

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I was wondering.

COSTELLO: That would be bad. Anyway, they're excused from school to work on the railroad.

There's a real live whale swimming in Trenton, New Jersey -- Chad.

MYERS: The Delaware River. There he is.

COSTELLO: It's crazy.

MYERS: He's a beluga.

COSTELLO: This is right near the city's Minor League Baseball stadium. Somehow this 11-foot long beluga made its way 80 miles up the Delaware River from the Atlantic Ocean. Police patrolling the river have been keeping boaters at a safe distance while trying to coax the whale back down the river.

MYERS: I think all that fresh water that we had with all that rain the past couple of weeks will probably coax him back down toward the saltwater eventually.

COSTELLO: We hope so. He looks like he's having a good time, though.

MYERS: Yes, he's having fun.

COSTELLO: One woman living near Atlanta has traded in her gas- guzzling pickup truck for a one-horse power version. Take a look here -- Chad.

MYERS: That's a mule.

COSTELLO: It's a mule, you're right. The woman says she's tired of paying high gas prices, so she hitches up Miss Bell (ph), that's the mule,... MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... just to prove a point, and I don't know.

MYERS: I don't know. But in New York, you have to pay for that. That's a handsome cab ride, right?

COSTELLO: I think you're right.

MYERS: Right, she gets to ride for free.

COSTELLO: Here's what's all new in the next half-hour of DAYBREAK.

Long security lines at the nation's busiest airport could be getting even longer. A messy mandate could increase your wait.

Plus, a young woman dies for telling the truth. Some say she was a tattle tale, but now lawmakers in one state consider the risks and rewards of keeping snitches a secret.

And a reminder, our e-mail "Question of the Day," is it right or wrong to shoot stray cats? DAYBREAK@CNN.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toll Brothers is constructing an empire house by house. The luxury homebuilder breaks ground on the Fortune 500 list at No. 477 and has built its reputation by mass producing the most expensive homes of any major builder in America.

The key to the company's success, build luxury homes with the same efficient mass production techniques used on low-cost starter homes. "Fortune" magazine considers Toll Brothers the hottest stock of any builder on the Fortune 500 list, rising over 90 percent in 2004 to $77 per share. But with interest rates slowly creeping upward, Toll Brothers may soon have to curb its development.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning to you, welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

"Now in the News."

Three separate bombs targeted U.S. military convoys in Baghdad today three hours apart. There are no reports of American casualties, but some Iraqis are wounded.

Scientists around the world are scrambling to destroy vials of a deadly 1957 pandemic flu strain. The World Health Organization is urging the destruction because of a slight risk to the public. In the Michael Jackson trial, cross-examination resumes today for the stepfather of Jackson's accuser. And later this week, the accuser's mother is expected to take the stand.

Attendance was light as school reopened for the first time since the shooting spree in Red Lake, Minnesota. It's been three weeks since a teenaged gunman killed seven people and himself at the school.

To the Forecast Center.

Morning -- Chad.

MYERS: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: All right, thank you -- Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: We begin this half-hour with the next step for accused bomber Eric Rudolph. He will appear in a Birmingham, Alabama courtroom this morning and an Atlanta courtroom later this afternoon.

Rudolph's deal with prosecutors calls for him to plead guilty to four bombings. They include the Olympic Park bombing in 1996 and the attack on a Birmingham women's clinic in 1998. Sentencing will take place at a later date, but the deal calls for Rudolph to avoid the death penalty. Instead, he will serve four consecutive life sentences.

For more on the Rudolph plea, we're joined from Birmingham by CNN investigative producer Henry Schuster. Henry is also the co-author of "Hunting Eric Rudolph," a look at the case and the chase of the bombing suspect.

Good morning.

HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER: Good morning, Carol. How are you?

COSTELLO: I'm fine. You know this plea deal is somewhat surprising to me, because, I mean, this guy killed two people. He plants a bomb at the Olympics, embarrassing the United States and Atlanta, and causing panic. Why did prosecutors come to this deal?

SCHUSTER: That's a good question. And apparently the deal was done at the direction of the new U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Prosecutors in Atlanta and in Birmingham had been prepared to go for the maximum sentence.

I did speak with one former U.S. attorney here in Birmingham who hinted that while they were sure they would get a conviction, that they had some doubts that they might get the death penalty for what he euphemistically referred to as cultural reasons, as if to say that they might not get the death penalty because of the abortion issue.

The government will say that it was a good deal because Rudolph gave up the location of 250 pounds of dynamite that was at five separate sites in North Carolina. One of those sites was actually right across the road from what had been the operation center for a time for the task force that spent five-and-a-half years looking for Rudolph.

COSTELLO: Henry, I want to bring you back to that cultural issue idea you had. That's pretty shocking to me. I mean whatever you believe, this man killed two people.

SCHUSTER: Yes, you know, Carol, the previous attorney generals, Janet Reno and John Ashcroft, have been very blunt. This was a case, they said, of domestic terrorism, and it would be treated like anything else in the war on terrorism.

And in fact, in north Florida, which is also an area that is not necessarily particularly sympathetic, Paul Hill, a man who had shot a doctor, shot and killed a doctor outside an abortion clinic, was not only given the death sentence, but that death sentence has already been carried out.

So that reason is a little bit, well, it's something that prosecutors will certainly have to answer today when they hold news conferences after the plea deals are reached.

COSTELLO: Well, Henry, another thought for you, if a member of al Qaeda had planted a bomb in Centennial Park in Atlanta, I mean this guy maimed people there, he injured 120 people, would it have been different?

SCHUSTER: Well that does raise a very important question, is there a double standard for domestic terrorism? You know it's very important that coming up now, both with this sentencing and with the Tim McVeigh, the 10th anniversary of Oklahoma City, we've forgotten about domestic terrorism since 9/11. That doesn't necessarily mean domestic terrorists have forgotten about us.

The only person so far in this country to have been found and convicted of having weapons of mass destruction was a guy out in Texas named William Krar who had militia connections. He had enough sodium cyanide to kill everybody in a 30,000 square foot building.

COSTELLO: Well Timothy McVeigh was put to death. He certainly...

SCHUSTER: Yes, Tim McVeigh was put to death. And you know he said, after a certain point after the death sentence was passed, he waived his right to appeal.

Eric Rudolph was given the chance for life in prison. And you have to think that in the back of his mind that a guy who spent five- and-a-half years on the run in the woods says that this is just another phase of survival for him. His defense attorneys are believed that they're going to put out a statement later today saying why he did it. It'll be very interesting to hear what he has to say.

COSTELLO: Yes, it will.

Henry Schuster, co-author of "Hunting Eric Rudolph," and also an investigative producer for CNN, thank you for joining us live from Birmingham this morning.

Much more ahead on CNN DAYBREAK.

The lines are forming again in Rome. In just a few minutes, we'll take you there live as pilgrims still mourn the pope. In fact, they opened it up and you can see the pope's crypt now.

And rappers have a warning for tattle tales, you snitch, you die. At 49 minutes past, what police and prosecutors are doing to break the silence.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Wednesday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Pope John Paul II's tomb is now open to the public for the first time since the pontiff's funeral.

Our Dick Uliano viewed the gravesite before today's opening. He joins us now live from Rome.

Good morning -- Dick.

DICK ULIANO, CNN RADIO: Good morning to you, Carol, from Rome.

COSTELLO: What was it like?

ULIANO: It's very touching, actually. It's obviously a very sanctified area. It's historic. I think that people who enjoy history would be interested in seeing the crypts below St. Peter's Church. And certainly the faithful would be interested in seeing the graves of those who have sat on the throne of St. Peter.

The pope's grave is a very simple grave. It's in a whitewashed alcove, just a few steps from the ornate burial tomb of St. Peter, the Apostle. So, you know, not far away are these ornately decorated stone coffins of some previous popes, such as a sarcophagus to one of the benedict popes that has a bronze likeness of that pope lying in repose on top of the stone coffin.

But for Pope John Paul II's grave, it's very simple, whitewashed walls and a marble relief of Madonna and child. A white marble slab covers the remains of the pope. And it's adorned simply with a lily plant and a burning candle at the foot of the grave -- Carol.

COSTELLO: How long were the lines and does it cost anything to get in?

ULIANO: No, it's free to visit the crypts below St. Peter's Church. And there were people standing in line an hour or so before it opened to the public for the first time this morning since the pope's funeral on Friday.

But, Carol, gone are the long lines of the viewing for the pope's body prior to the funeral last week. And it only takes maybe 15 minutes to 30 minutes to wait in line to get inside. And once inside, people are passing rather quickly by the grave, but there's enough time for some to say a brief prayer. And for some, Carol, it's moved some people to tears.

COSTELLO: I bet so.

Dick Uliano, CNN Radio, joining DAYBREAK this morning live from Rome, thank you.

You'll get to see the pope's funeral through the eyes of one of the millions of pilgrims who flocked to the Vatican for the historical burial. That's in the next hour of DAYBREAK. And, boy, this man took some incredible pictures. Wait until you see them.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:46 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Word just coming in to CNN that 12 Iraqi guards were killed while trying to defuse a roadside bomb in Kirkuk. They had successfully deactivated one bomb. The second explosive killed them.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in Afghanistan this morning. He arrived today after a one-day visit to Iraq. Rumsfeld will meet with U.S. commanders and troops fighting the war on terrorism.

In money news, Wal-Mart wants to make up for some of the wildlife habitats that are lost when it builds one of its humongous superstores. The company is pledging $35 million dollars to buy land for a priority wildlife project during the next 10 years.

In culture, the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain will be home to the world's largest permanent indoor sculpture, shown here in model form. Artist Richard Serra is working on the steel piece that will be more than 430 feet long. It will weigh about 1,200 tons.

In sports, the Boston Celtics bested Philadelphia 105 to 98 to control the Atlantic Division. Paul Pierce scored 27 points for the Celtics, moving them closer toward clinching the division title. Five games remain.

I didn't even realize it was still basketball season.

MYERS: Isn't basketball over yet?

COSTELLO: I know.

MYERS: Yes, it shouldn't go on past the -- after the Final Four, pro ball should be over as well. It's like, enough. Anyway, if you haven't got hockey season.

Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you -- Chad.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you now.

Prosecutors in Baltimore are facing a growing problem, witnesses of major crimes are refusing to speak out fearing for their lives. We'll show you how the justice system is fighting back.

You are watching DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You see a crime, you'd tell authorities, right? Well that's the way it should work. But judges and prosecutors say intimidation of witnesses, from threats to outright violence, is a growing problem.

CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL GRIM, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: All right. Come on, get something to eat.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Carol Grim lovingly tends to the parakeets her youngest daughter gave her shortly after her eldest girl was killed.

GRIM: There's nothing like losing a child. You never get over it. Doesn't matter how old they are or how young they are your child is your child.

ARENA: Carol's daughter, Angela, the brunette on the right, witnessed a murder six years ago and told police about it. For that, she was fatally shot.

GRIM: Angela was trying to run up the steps, and then she was shot once in the back and twice in the back of the head and was killed instantly.

ARENA: The killing took place in suburban Maryland, not far from the streets of Baltimore, where prosecutors say witness intimidation touches nearly every homicide case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To all you rats and snitches lucky enough to cop one of these DVD, I hope you catch AIDS in your mouth, and your lip's the first thing to die.

ARENA: The problem is so pervasive that when local filmmaker and business owner, Rodney Bethea, told locals to rap on camera about what was on their minds, it is all they talked about. RODNEY BETHEA, PRODUCER, "STOP SNITCHIN'": As we started to gather their footage and we were looking back at it, everyone was pretty much talking about the snitching topic. So that's how "Stop Snitchin" was born.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I do talk tough. And I do it to your face (ph).

ARENA: The DVD is extremely controversial, because the message seems to be keep your mouth shut or else.

BETHEA: There are greater issues that cause these things to happen. Only thing I'm doing is showing you the reality of what happened. I'm not glorifying it, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just showing you the reality.

ARENA: Copies of the DVD are in nearly every office at Maryland State Capitol, courtesy of veteran prosecutor Patricia Jessamy who says witness intimidation is growing more violent.

PATRICIA JESSAMY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE ATTORNEY: I've been in the Baltimore City State's Attorney Office now for 18 years. I have prosecuted arson cases and all kinds of other violent crime cases, but this is the first time I have seen criminals who are so emboldened.

ARENA: Jessamy is lobbying in support of a state bill to increase the maximum penalty for witness intimidation from 5 to 20 years in prison, and to allow witness statements to be used in court even if the witnesses themselves do not or cannot appear.

JESSAMY: We lose 25 percent of our non-fatal shootings because witnesses either go underground, they cannot be found, or when they come to court, if we can find them, they recant their testimony.

ARENA: Baltimore's Police Department even created a special squad for the sole purpose of tracking down witnesses to homicides who don't show.

DET. LIEUT. BRIAN MATULONIS, BALTIMORE POLICE: Right now we're going to the south part of Baltimore City, and we're looking for two witnesses that have failed to appear for a trial that's going on right now.

ARENA (on camera): Part of the problem is fear. The other is money. States cannot afford to provide protection for all witnesses. And those who do get protection usually only get it for as long as the trial lasts.

(voice-over): Carol Grim says that should not stop anyone from coming forward and doing the right thing, just like her daughter did.

GRIM: I'm very proud of her, for standing up for her rights, for not being afraid, for telling the police what he did, and at least getting him and a couple of other ones off the street.

ARENA: Kelli Arena, CNN, Baltimore. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: We are approaching the halfway mark on DAYBREAK. In the next hour, the FDA takes a second look at silicone breast implants. Will surgeons be allowed to use them again?

And another state endorses English as its official language. We'll look at what the heck that means day in and day out.

You're watching DAYBREAK for Wednesday, April 13.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're getting a lot of e-mail.

MYERS: Do you have a headache?

COSTELLO: I do from reading so much e-mail.

MYERS: At least 500 of them out there.

COSTELLO: Take it away then. The question this morning, they're thinking about allowing people to hunt feral cats in Wisconsin. So our question, shooting strays: right or wrong?

Go ahead -- Chad.

MYERS: Sydney (ph) in Houston says giving a home to a stray cat is a great idea until a child gets rabies, then it's not such a great idea, is it -- Carol?

COSTELLO: This is from Delpha (ph) from Charles Town, West Virginia. I think the Wisconsin legislature is insane. I cannot believe that they're going to allow people to shoot cats. What's wrong with them? What will be next, shooting dogs? Cats are not considered rodents, they're pets. It brought tears to my eyes to look at my cat and think someone might shoot her if she gets out.

MYERS: Yes, they're going to have put collars on all those cats, all the domestic kitty cats, if this happens.

Anyway, cats kill an estimated one million birds per night, says Bill (ph) from Newport Richie. Cat owners need to keep them more responsible and keep them indoors, then the problem would not go to this drastic measure, would it -- Carol?

COSTELLO: You know this -- you did not put your name, but it's a good one, so I'm going to read it. I think killing stray animals is disgusting. What's next, are we going to start killing homeless people, too? Killing animals just goes to show how little respect people have for life. The planet is not just for people. The arrogance of humans.

One more before we have to go to the six.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com