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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Ariel Sharon Discusses Middle East Peace
Aired April 13, 2005 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Happening now: fears of Israeli Jews battling other Israeli Jews. Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon tells me the atmosphere in his country is approaching that of a civil war. Find out why, and if he fears for his own life. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
First strike, point of no return. Will Israel and the U.S. let Iran develop a nuclear weapon? I'll go one-on-one with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Killer flu: it claimed more than a million lives half a century ago. Now it's been sent around the world. Can it kill again?
Hostage: kidnappers show off an American businessman held in Iraq.
Pleading guilty to deadly bombings: does Eric Rudolph have any remorse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is cold, calculated. I'm not sure he's warm-blooded. You know, he seemed to be proud of what he did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, April 13th, 2005.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us. The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is dramatically raising the stakes in his warnings about Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program. In an interview with me in the past hour over at Blair House here in Washington, the prime minister said time is quickly running out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: No doubt that they are working now in order to possess a nuclear weapon which we would regard to be a great danger not only for Israel but for Europe and for the United States.
BLITZER: Do you think that point of no return is months away or years away?
SHARON: Very difficult to speak about technical issues that should be solved. I don't think it's a matter of years. I would say to have a bomb that might take years, but to solve this problem, the effort that they are doing and the seriosity (sic) of their activity, I believe that it can be much shorter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The prime minister also acknowledged his deep fear that the atmosphere in Israel right now feels like that on the eve of a civil war among Israeli Jews. At issue, the explosive issue of Israel's withdrawal of Jewish settlements in Gaza; that's scheduled to begin this summer. And parts of the West Bank. My full interview with the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, that's coming up later this hour.
Turning now to our "Security Watch" and a story that's both terrifying and incredible. Terrifying because a decade's old flu strain now poses a potential threat to the entire world, and incredible because of the way it happened. CNN's Brian Todd is here. He's got details. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was a very deadly virus last seen more than a generation ago. Now health officials are scrambling to prevent another pandemic and find out why the strain got out again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): At a state lab in Arizona, health officials are well-versed in how to destroy a killer flu virus.
DR. KAREN LEWIS, ARIZONA HEALTH SERVICES DEPT.: It's called autoclaving it. So, you put it in an oven and you zap it so hot it can't survive.
TODD: Labs like this now have to destroy thousands of vials of a devastating strain, the Asian flu that killed more than a million people in a late 1950s pandemic, last seen in the late '60s.
DR. KLAUS STOHR, WHO: This virus is fully transmissible from human to humans and everybody born after 1968 would have no immunity.
TODD: The vials were mistakenly sent to some 4,000 labs in 18 countries, the vast majority in the U.S. and Canada over the past seven months. Experts say the worst-case scenario would be a lab worker contracting the flu. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control want to prevent that. They are advising the labs to destroy the vials and they are trying to reassure the public.
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, CDC DIRECTOR: Right now we have no evidence of any health threat to anyone in the community from the situation. We don't have any evidence that even a lab worker has been affected by this.
TODD: But asked by CNN if there are any unaccounted for samples floating around, a mixed response. World Health Organization officials said there are none they know of. CDC officials said their investigation is still in its early stages.
How did a mistake of this magnitude occur? Flu viruses are routinely distributed to labs for testing by the College of American Pathologists. They received this deadly strain from a Cincinnati area vendor called Meridian Bioscience. We spoke to a public health expert.
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: What it is, is a wake-up call we really have to be attuned to laboratory safety. What we don't have is a good handle -- we don't have a roster of all those laboratories and all the pathogen, all the bugs, that they contain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: CDC officials say right now they don't know why Meridian Bioscience decided to include the deadly Asian flu viruses in those shipments. An official with the College of American Pathologists says, to the best of their knowledge, Meridian knew it was sending out the strain but the company believed it was safe because the strain is listed as safe by a U.S. government publication.
Our phone calls to Meridian for comment were not returned. Wolf?
BLITZER: Brian Todd, pretty scary stuff. Thank you for our reports. And, to our viewers, please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Moving on to other news we're following today, an American man being held hostage in Iraq begged for his life today. A videotape of Jeffrey Ake's plea was aired on an Arabic TV network, al-Jazeera. CNN's State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel is joining us now, live, with more. Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Ake was kidnapped Monday near Baghdad, but it wasn't until today his name was made public, making him the 17th American civilian to be kidnapped in Iraq since the U.S. invaded two years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): The videotape aired on al-Jazeera shows armed men pointing guns at a visibly frightened Jeffrey Ake, a 47- year-old American businessman from Indiana kidnapped Monday in Iraq. Reading from a prepared statement, Ake asks the U.S. government to open a dialogue with insurgents to save his life, and calls for U.S. troops to leave Iraq, demands Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice effectively ruled out.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: Obviously, the United States continues to hold to a policy that we do not negotiate with terrorists. It only encourages them. But we are working very, very hard to try and secure the safety of the American there.
KOPPEL: Ake is founder and president of Equipment Express, which manufactures water bottle equipment. A local Indiana newspaper reports Ake was in Iraq doing business related to reconstruction. In the small city of Laporte, Indiana, a yellow ribbon marks the home where Ake lives with his wife and children. The FBI has advised his family and employees to lie low.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family's position is that they do not wish to make any comments at this time.
KOPPEL: But in nearby Rolling Prairie, where Ake's company is based, Jeffrey Ake's fate is the talk of the town.
CHIEF DAVID GARIEPY, LAPORTE POLICE: I don't know him but I've seen him and I know of him, you know. But that's -- it's really shakes you up a little bit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (on camera): A U.S. State Department official told CNN the U.S. doesn't know who kidnapped Ake and said the hostage takers could be insurgents or common criminals who are often now snatching up unsuspecting civilians, Wolf, and then trying to sell them to the highest bidder. Wolf?
BLITZER: Andrea Koppel reporting for us. Thank you, Andrea, very much.
When we come back, guilty pleas, accused serial bomber Eric Robert Rudolph faces federal judges in Birmingham and Atlanta.
Permanent presence, hints that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai wants U.S. troops in Afghanistan indefinitely.
Tense times and tough talk: how Israel will deal with Iran on the issue of nuclear weapons. I'll go one-on-one with the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: For the first time we're getting a glimpse inside the mind of Eric Rudolph. He released a statement late today after pleading guilty to four bombings including the 1996 Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in exchange for his life.
CNN's Carol Lin is outside the federal courthouse in Atlanta. She has the latest -- Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's an extraordinary statement indeed. And an insight into this man's mind. He claims that the government, first of al, was forced to make a plea deal in this bombing case because he said, quote, "Abortion has become unpopular in this country." He goes on to explain that he had planned five bombs on five different consecutive days in the Olympic Park bombing, but had to cancel that plan because he was simply not prepared.
And then he made this statement about abortion, that abortion is murder. And when the regime in Washington legalized, sanctioned and legitimized this practice, they forfeited their legitimacy and moral authority to govern. This is a man using his crimes to set forth not only his opinion about abortion, but the incompetence he felt of the federal government.
Now, two separate judges starting in Birmingham, Alabama, earlier today wanted to talk with Eric Robert Rudolph to make sure he specifically understood what he was pleading to, and that he was pleading to life in prison without any condition. They asked him very detailed questions, are you under any influence of drugs or alcohol. Did you feel any undue pressure in making this decision? In both hearings Birmingham, as well as here in Atlanta the federal court behind me, he said, no.
So the plan right now is there's a sentencing hearing in Birmingham, Alabama, July 18, when the victims will get to testify in that case. In Atlanta there are so many people who were injured in the Olympic Park bombing, Wolf, that frankly they could not set a sentencing date because they have to coordinate with so many people. But, many of the victims very anxious to look Eric Rudolph in the eye and tell him how he changed and in some cases ruined their lives, Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Carol Lin reporting for us. Carol, thank you very much for that report.
When we come back, a permanent U.S. base, a military base permanently in Afghanistan? The Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld touches on a delicate subject during a surprise visit there. We'll have details.
Also, how will Israel respond to Iran's nuclear ambitions? My interview with the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. That's coming up.
And later I'll also talk to the Palestinian Foreign Minister Nasser Al Kidwa, about Israel's plan to pull out from Gaza. Will the Palestinian's cooperate? Is it enough to move peace forward? Much more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... swathes of the Afghanistan country side. And U.S. commanders expect another spring offensive will bring an uptick in small-scale attacks, that continue to take American lives. It's one reason Afghan President Hamid Karzai said after meeting with Rumsfeld in Kabul, that Afghanistan is seeking a more permanent military relationship with the United States.
PRES. HAMID KARZAI, AFGHANISTAN: The conclusion we have drawn is the Afghan people want a longer-term relationship with the United States. They want this relationship to be a wholesome one, including a sustained economic relationship, a political relationship and most important of all, a strategic security relationship.
MCINTYRE: Karzai never mentioned bases, and Secretary Rumsfeld downplayed the idea the U.S. wants a permanent military presence in Afghanistan. Privately U.S. officials say any discussion of bases is premature. And that the U.S. might seek permission to operate in Afghanistan without keeping troops there permanently.
While Afghanistan is not in the position to defend itself, Rumsfeld says its 20,000-man army has acquitted itself well, so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: What we generally do when we work with another country is what we have been doing. We find ways that we can be helpful. It may be training, it may be equipping, it may be various other types of assistance such as is the case here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: But at an earlier briefing without outgoing U.S. military commander Lieutenant General David Barno, Rumsfeld received a more sober assessment of the Afghan police forces. The Afghan National Police are just over half strength, 35,000 of the needed 65,000. And while Barno told Rumsfeld some of those police are pretty good, many, he said are extraordinarily bad.
In Afghanistan as in Iraq the U.S. exit strategy hinges on shifting counterinsurgency operations to local forces while selling the populace on the virtues of democracy. One brigade commander told Rumsfeld he lacks the troops to do both missions as well as he would like. But there was no discussion of adding to the 20,000 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan.
In fact, Rumsfeld expressed frustration that other U.S. agencies, such as the State Department, Agriculture Department and Drug Enforcement Agency weren't doing more to help rebuild the country.
(on camera): Compared to Iraq, Afghanistan is a relative success story. But if Afghanistan is a model for how to rebuild a nation and foster democracy, the lesson it offers is that progress is slow and often hard to measure. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Kolot (ph), Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Here at home, more than 100 people and multiple law enforcement agencies are now involved in the desperate search for a missing Florida girl. Thirteen-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde was last seen at her home south of Tampa on Sunday.
Authorities say the girl has gone missing before, but always returned, adding they feel there's something suspicious this time. They also say they are questioning a registered sex offender who had some contact with Lunde's family. We are watching the story, we get news, we'll bring it to you.
When we come back, has Iran's nuclear program passed the point of no return? And will Israel do something about that? Up next my interview with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Getting out of Gaza: is an Israeli pull-out good enough for the Palestinians? Later I'll ask the Palestinian foreign minister Nasser al-Kidwa. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. And we want to welcome our viewers from CNN International as well.
We are here at Blair House, the official residence for foreign guests across the street from the White House. And joining us now the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Prime Minister, welcome to Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
SHARON: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Iran. This is an important subject. The director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency Mohamed ElBaradei says there is no evidence yet -- hard evidence -- that Iran is building a nuclear bomb. Do you have hard evidence Israel is doing so -- that Iran is doing so?
SHARON: We have evidence that Iran makes an effort to possess nuclear weapons.
BLITZER: How long would it take in your opinion, in your intelligence estimate to get to what's called the point of no return?
SHARON: I think the point of no return should be judged by technical issues. A point of no return depends upon the ability of the Iranians to solve some technical issues. And once they solve it, I think that will be the point of no return.
BLITZER: How long do you estimate that will be?
SHARON: I don't know, I don't think it's too long. I would say in order to possess a bomb that will take them time. But the problem now is entirely different.
They have some problems. In order to overcome them, they are making every effort. No doubt that they are working now in order to possess a nuclear weapon, which would regard to be a great danger not only for Israel but for Europe and for the United States.
BLITZER: Do you think that point of no return is months away or years away?
SHARON: Because we speak about technical issues that should be solved, I don't think it's a matter of years. I'd say to have a bomb that might take years, but to solve this problem the effort that they are doing and the seriosity (ph) of their activity, I believe that it can be much shorter.
BLITZER: Within -- so in other words there's only a few months left, is that what you are saying?
SHARON: In order to solve the technical issues I believe it's much shorter. It's hard to say how long it will take, because these are technical issues. But that I believe from that point alone it will be much easier for them. I know it might take, of course, several years to have a bomb. But they will make every effort to possess a bomb.
BLITZER: Did you present what you regard as hard evidence, new intelligence to President Bush the other day when you met with him in Crawford, Texas that would indicate Iran is closer to building a bomb than the U.S. government might suspect?
SHARON: ...about building a bomb, it will take time. But those issues that are -- create major concern now, of course -- we discuss issues, and Middle Eastern issues and discuss that with President Bush and with Vice President Cheney.
BLITZER: Was there tension on this issue of Iran and its nuclear ambitions, between your government and the Bush administration?
SHARON: I think that we are cooperating. There is serious intelligence cooperation, and we exchange information about it. And altogether, I think, we worry about it. And I believe that the president understands the danger of Iran to possess nuclear weapons, is of course worried about that.
And I think that we have to continue and to watch the development there. And I think we have to make the preparations to bring Iran to the Security Council.
Meanwhile, I think there are steps taken in Europe and so on. But I think the Iranians should be limited in time. And there should -- all the preparations would be done in order to be able to make -- to create a major pressure.
I think that they expect changes in Iran, internal changes. They should understand that in order that there might be changes there depends very much upon the pressure that we'll put upon Iran.
BLITZER: A lot of our viewers will remember in 1981 when Israel unilaterally bombed an Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak. Are you considering -- let me rephrase the question, at what point would Israel take unilateral military action to try to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb?
SHARON: I remember, of course, that raid in Iraq and was always proud to be a member of the inner cabinet of ministers (ph) to be active (ph) in receiving (ph) their decision (ph). I think that decision then has saved many lives. Just imagine what could have happened if Iraq would have had -- Iraq under Saddam Hussein would have had atomic weapons.
I think that here the situation is different. And the problem is different and much wider. And I think that here it should be a coalition of democracies who believe in the danger, led by United States, in order to put pressure upon Iraq -- upon Iran.
BLITZER: Have you ruled out a unilateral military strike against Iran? SHARON: We don't think that's what we have to do. We're not going to solve the problems for nobody. And then the thing that -- I'd say the danger is so great that it should be an international effort, all together. I would like you to know that Israel is not leading the struggle. Of course we exchange intelligence. We exchange views, we discuss these issues, but it's not that we are planning any military attack on Iran.
BLITZER: Let's talk about some other issues: the settlements on the West Bank -- supposedly a source of contention between the Bush administration and the Israeli government. Will your government authorize the construction of 3,500 new housing units on the West Bank at Ma'aleh Adumim, a settlement outside of Jerusalem.
SHARON: So first I think that the noise about this issue may be partially coming from the Israeli side. I must say, if I also was to pause (ph) because we speak about the plan, maybe 10 years old, that goes through the various phases of bureaucracy, and we don't speak about building now.
But it's about Ma'aleh Adumim, Ma'aleh Adumim is one of the blocks, it's a major center...
BLITZER: On the West Bank outside of Jerusalem.
SHARON: Yes, but we regard that -- the Israeli position that Ma'aleh Adumim is one of the major blocs, that the way we see it, and that's in accordance, I would say, to what -- to the letter of President Bush that I got on the 14th of April 2004 where he talked about the major blocs of Jewish population, the realities that were established there.
So Ma'aleh Adumim is one of those blocks.
BLITZER: Did the president ask you not to go ahead and expand that existing settlement. Did he ask you to stop the construction?
SHARON: I think that, altogether, this issue, I don't think that that was the purpose of my visit there, and altogether I think the president repeated what we have said, that we have to look at the road map and to act upon the road map because he's...
BLITZER: But he says, the president -- excuse me for interrupting, the president says the road map calls for a freeze of settlement activity, including what's called "natural growth," of standing, existing settlements.
SHARON: I believe that this issue will be discussed also again in the future. We have been discussing those issues. And I believe that Israel understands its commitment. And I believe that there will be discussion on these issues also in the future. But as about Ma'aleh Adumim, no doubt that's one of the major blocks, and according to the Israeli position, it will be a part of Israel in the future, and it should be contiguity between this town and Jerusalem.
BLITZER: So I take it you have authorized the construction of 3,500 additional housing units.
SHARON: No, we have not discussed it. It's also said, it's an old plan, 10 years old, passing through all the various bureaucratic steps. And that is not what we're doing.
BLITZER: Let's talk about the withdrawal from Gaza. In the early '80s, when you oversaw the withdrawal from Jewish settlements in Sinai, when you left those settlements at Yameet (ph) and also in northern Sinai, you bulldozed those housing units, basically the whole place. Are you going to leave the houses of the 8,000 Jewish settlers in Gaza intact or will you destroy them as you evacuate?
SHARON: My position, and I believe it will be the government position, to remove synagogues and the cemeteries to Israel, but to try and leave the buildings there intact. That of course needs cooperation between us and the Palestinians. At the talks in Sharm el Sheik, I raised this issue and I suggested to form a committee that will deal with these issue. By now, I would say, not because of us, because we are ready to discuss the issues -- due to some conflict inside the Palestinian Authority we have not started yet to deal with that, but I'll make every effort to leave these buildings intact.
BLITZER: Mr. Prime Minister, we have to take a short break, but we have a lot more to talk about, including the possibility of what you yourself have described as Israel perhaps being on the eve of a civil war, Israeli Jew vs. Israeli Jew. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to Blair House across the street from the White House. We're continuing our conversation with the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Prime Minister, there are reports that some Israeli soldiers, perhaps more than just some, will refuse to obey orders and participate in the evacuation, the removal of Jewish settlers from Gaza.
How concerned are you about that?
SHARON: I believe, first, that if they are going to be, there will be very few. And I mentioned the atmosphere in Israel, I would say the atmosphere is an atmosphere that looks like an eve of a civil war. But I can tell you that, I'm going to take every step in order that things like that will not happen.
BLITZER: When you say a civil war you mean Israeli Jews fighting Israeli Jews. That would be almost unheard of in Israel.
SHARON: Not since, I would say during the last revolt against the Romans. But...
BLITZER: That was -- I mean, hundreds of years ago.
SHARON: But that's some years ago. Yes. BLITZER: There was the incident when an Israeli Jew assassinated your friend, the former prime minister of Israel, Yitzhak Rabin, 10 years ago, almost exactly. How concerned are you about your security?
SHARON: That doesn't interfere in my plans or in my timetable. I work as usual, and I do what I have to do. And myself, I'm going to make every effort that that atmosphere that we can see now will not become a reality.
BLITZER: Do you worry, though, about another far-right zealot, an Israeli Jew, wanting to kill you or other members of your cabinet, your government, or military leadership?
SHARON: I think that our security services are taking all the steps, all the needed steps in order to avoid that. That, as I say, doesn't interfere in my -- not in my plans and not in my timetable. I work as I used to work before.
BLITZER: So the notion of a civil war really erupting in Israel, is that a concern that you have?
SHARON: I would say, as I mentioned and I spoke about an atmosphere which is, there is a terrible incitement, and I can assure you one thing, that I'm going to take every step in order to avoid it.
BLITZER: Who do you believe assassinated former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri?
SHARON: I don't think that we know more than yourselves. But no doubt that the Syrians were involved in that, Syrian security services that altogether control Lebanon.
BLITZER: So you blame the Syrian security services, the Syrian government of Bashar al Assad for killing Rafiq Hariri?
SHARON: As I said, I don't have a direct evidence of that, but no doubt that the Syrian security services control Lebanon. And one of the most important things I think, and that is a very important step taken by the president is, of course, the Syrian act of accountability, and should be heavy pressure on Syria to move out of Lebanon. And that, I think, is very important.
Altogether, I think the Syrians will continue to make efforts to control Lebanon, even if the forces will be on the other side of the border, using, of course, the Iranians that are very active in Lebanon and using the Hezbollah that support the Syrians.
BLITZER: The president of Israel, Moshe Katsav, when he was at the funeral of Pope John Paul II, shook hands with the president of Syria, Bashar al Assad, and the president of Iran, Mohammed Khatami. Does that indicate a new chapter potentially between these adversaries of yours and Israel?
SHARON: No, I don't think so. What happened there, I believe that the -- being there in the funeral, he was in a position that, you know, faced him or came close to him, but that doesn't show anything about our relations. Iran is, I would say, is a country -- even, I would say, those that are so-called moderate -- not moderate according along our understanding -- even the moderates speak there about the elimination of the Jewish people and the state of Israel, and that's a national Iranian target.
So we don't see any change there. They are involved in terror. They, together with the Syrians, built the Hezbollah forces, which create this permanent tension and friction along the Lebanese border. I don't see there any changes. And I think that, of course, along our understanding, pressure should be put on Iran and pressure -- heavy pressure put on Syria in order to try and avoid any interference -- Syrian interference in Lebanon.
BLITZER: We are all out of time, but I'll leave the interview with one final question where we started the interview -- Iran. The Iranians say that Israel already has a nuclear bomb, so what's wrong with their going ahead and building a nuclear bomb, even though they deny they're doing that?
SHARON: I think that Israel made it very clear for years that was our policy, and we said very clearly that Israel will not be the first one, I will say, to use or to possess nuclear weapon. And altogether, I think that it should be -- and I remember talking with President Bush, with whom I have close relations and I'd say deep friendship, and he understands the dangers of world terror. He understands the danger of Iraq possessing a nuclear weapon. Remember, I said one thing -- one should avoid having or developing nuclear weapons by what I called irresponsible countries.
BLITZER: We'll leave it right there. The prime minister of Israel Ariel Sharon. Once again, welcome to Washington. Thanks very much for joining us on CNN.
SHARON: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
BLITZER: Prime Minister Sharon speaking with me over at Blair House across the street from the White House just a little while ago.
Coming up I'll get reaction to his comments from the Palestinian foreign minister Nasser al-Kidwa. He's standing by to join us live from Ramallah.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Israelis are bitterly divided over the planned pull-out from Gaza and a small part of the West Bank. We just heard the prime minister of Israel say the atmosphere is like that on the eve of a civil war in Israel.
For Palestinian reaction, let's turn to Nasser al-Kidwa. He's the Palestinian foreign minister, former Palestinian representative at the United Nations. He's joining us now from Ramallah on the West Bank.
Mr. Minister, once again, thanks for joining us.
Let's get to the issue of coordination between Israelis and Palestinians when it comes to the Gaza withdrawal. Are you planning to cooperate, to coordinate the withdrawal so that the Israelis will not bulldoze or destroy those housing units in Gaza?
NASSER AL-KIDWA, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, we want better than that, we want serious negotiations with the Israeli side on the context of the withdrawal. We want to make sure that it will be done rightly, that there will be a full withdrawal from Gaza without problems and that we reach complete agreements with them with the regard to the assets. And how, also, to link that with the situation in the West Bank. So we are ready and we hope that they are ready, as well.
BLITZER: So in other words, you want the Israelis to leave the houses of the 8,000 Jewish settlers in Gaza intact so that Palestinians presumably could take over the houses. Is that right?
KIDWA: Well, not exactly. Unfortunately, we don't have enough information about the assets. The Israelis did not hand us any of such information.
In principle, probably there is some kind of problem with the residences because you have 2,000 -- approximately 2,000 villas. In a situation like Gaza you don't make much use of a situation like that. However, we are ready to receive the information, study it, and try to negotiate the situation with Israelis, based on the fact that there shouldn't be any reward for any assets because they are established as illegal assets in the first place.
BLITZER: But, you welcome the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza that is supposed to take place over a few weeks beginning in July?
AL-KIDWA: Absolutely. We welcome the Israeli withdrawal from any place, any part of the occupied Palestinian territory and that, of course, includes Gaza. As I said we are ready to negotiate that with Israelis in a serious way, not only to receive information from them, but to negotiate and to reach agreement on the whole thing.
BLITZER: The prime minister, you just heard him say that as far as that huge West Bank settlement, Ma'aleh Adumim, outside of Jerusalem, he wants to see it expand so that in effect it goes right up to the outskirts of Jerusalem. That is something that U.S. officials say might be contrary to the so-called road map which everyone says they support. The Palestinian position on that is what?
AL-KIDWA: Well, the Israeli position here is very unfortunate. Let me be very clear. The settlements are illegal under international law. They contradict the road map, the letter and spirit of the road map. They have to stop, otherwise we cannot have any serious prospect for peace in the region. And in this regard, of course, we appreciate the position taken by the administration, the position taken by the president, in particular.
When it comes to the settlement blocks, of course, the meaning of the letter Mr. Sharon referred to is completely different. The letter says the United States will support Israeli position in returning these settlement blocks, not to expand them in a dramatic way as Mr. Sharon is trying to do.
In addition to that, the letter should be read consistent with international law. That means that any change in the 1967 borders could come only by agreement through negotiations and based on the principle of equal exchange of territory. Otherwise, we are accepting illegal de facto situation imposed by force. This is definitely not the recipe for peace in the region.
BLITZER: Do you accept the position of the Bush administration as expressed by the president that any final settlement should take the "population realities" into consideration? In other words, the large number of Israelis who live in the so-called blocks of settlements that the prime minister is talking about, that you have to deal with that reality?
AL-KIDWA: No, the U.S. position is not only that. First, the U.S. position says that there shouldn't be any settlement activity and that all such activities must stop. This is very important. Secondly, when it comes to the settlement blocks or the population centers as you call them. They remain illegal, of course. Nevertheless as I said, if the U.S. position is read consistent with international law, we might find common ground through the United States based on the fact that there shouldn't be a change in the border. There shouldn't be at all, unless both sides agree otherwise and unless they reach agreement on the adjustment of the border to take into consideration maybe some of the facts on the ground. However, there should be an exchange of territory based on equal amount and equal value, as well.
BLITZER: The prime minister expresses his high regard for the Palestinian Authority, President Mahmoud Abbas, but he insists that the Palestinian Authority is not yet doing enough to stop violence, to stop terrorism, to crackdown on armed militants in the West Bank and Gaza. What's your response?
AL-KIDWA: Well, I think the Palestinian Authority and its presidents have done a lot, really. We see the situation on the ground. There has been a lot of action: reconstruction of the security forces; agreement with all Palestinian factions with regard to quieting down the situation completely. We have seen measures within this security forces itself including retirement and other measures.
And, of course, there is the overall problem of reform, and here I think we are very active and we are making a lot of progress in this regard. Let me stress, nevertheless, that all this has to come within the context. Israel has to do its part. Israel has to withdraw, for instance, its forces from all populated centers back to pre-September 2000 positions, otherwise we are going nowhere because it can't be a unilateral activity. It should be activities by both sides and it should -- to be aimed at least going back to the situation before the conflict and then, of course, to start negotiating in good faith based on the road map and with the aim of implementing all its provisions. BLITZER: Nasser al-Kidwa, the foreign minister of the Palestinian Authority. Mr. Minister, thanks very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation down the road.
And we want to thank our international viewers for joining us as well. They now -- CNN International will return to its regular programming.
Coming up here at the top of the hour, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Lou is standing by from New York with a preview. Lou?
LOU DOBBS, HOST "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Purely for domestic consumption, Wolf. Thank you.
At the top of this hour, the Senate's Republican leadership is accused of playing games, political games, with the immigration and border security crisis in this country. We'll have full coverage for you.
And the high cost of so-called free trade: why a leading U.S. senator says the free trade agreement with Central America should be passed because it will ship jobs out of this country rather than bring in illegal aliens. Now there's a bargain.
In "Face Off," I'll be debating a U.S. congressman who says the Mexican government has every right to give out Mexican I.D. cards to illegal aliens in this country.
We'll have all of that and a great deal more, Wolf. Now, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou. We'll be watching. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?
KEN STARR, WHITEWATER SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: I do.
BLITZER: Special prosecutor Ken Starr spent five years and $50 million investigating President Clinton. What started as a probe into the Whitewater land deal culminated in the 445-page Starr Report, detailing a salacious relationship with Monica Lewinsky and other allegations.
STARR: The president chose deception, a pattern of calculated behavior over a span of months.
BLITZER: President Clinton survived the resulting impeachment. Starr stepped into private life and out of the Beltway. He and his wife, Alice, now live in southern California. They have three children. Starr is the dean of the Pepperdine University Law School and practices law in L.A.. He says very little about the Clinton investigation, but in a recent interview he called it "challenging times that made his faith deeper."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 13, 2005 - 17:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Happening now: fears of Israeli Jews battling other Israeli Jews. Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon tells me the atmosphere in his country is approaching that of a civil war. Find out why, and if he fears for his own life. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
First strike, point of no return. Will Israel and the U.S. let Iran develop a nuclear weapon? I'll go one-on-one with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Killer flu: it claimed more than a million lives half a century ago. Now it's been sent around the world. Can it kill again?
Hostage: kidnappers show off an American businessman held in Iraq.
Pleading guilty to deadly bombings: does Eric Rudolph have any remorse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is cold, calculated. I'm not sure he's warm-blooded. You know, he seemed to be proud of what he did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, April 13th, 2005.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us. The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is dramatically raising the stakes in his warnings about Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program. In an interview with me in the past hour over at Blair House here in Washington, the prime minister said time is quickly running out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: No doubt that they are working now in order to possess a nuclear weapon which we would regard to be a great danger not only for Israel but for Europe and for the United States.
BLITZER: Do you think that point of no return is months away or years away?
SHARON: Very difficult to speak about technical issues that should be solved. I don't think it's a matter of years. I would say to have a bomb that might take years, but to solve this problem, the effort that they are doing and the seriosity (sic) of their activity, I believe that it can be much shorter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The prime minister also acknowledged his deep fear that the atmosphere in Israel right now feels like that on the eve of a civil war among Israeli Jews. At issue, the explosive issue of Israel's withdrawal of Jewish settlements in Gaza; that's scheduled to begin this summer. And parts of the West Bank. My full interview with the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, that's coming up later this hour.
Turning now to our "Security Watch" and a story that's both terrifying and incredible. Terrifying because a decade's old flu strain now poses a potential threat to the entire world, and incredible because of the way it happened. CNN's Brian Todd is here. He's got details. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was a very deadly virus last seen more than a generation ago. Now health officials are scrambling to prevent another pandemic and find out why the strain got out again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): At a state lab in Arizona, health officials are well-versed in how to destroy a killer flu virus.
DR. KAREN LEWIS, ARIZONA HEALTH SERVICES DEPT.: It's called autoclaving it. So, you put it in an oven and you zap it so hot it can't survive.
TODD: Labs like this now have to destroy thousands of vials of a devastating strain, the Asian flu that killed more than a million people in a late 1950s pandemic, last seen in the late '60s.
DR. KLAUS STOHR, WHO: This virus is fully transmissible from human to humans and everybody born after 1968 would have no immunity.
TODD: The vials were mistakenly sent to some 4,000 labs in 18 countries, the vast majority in the U.S. and Canada over the past seven months. Experts say the worst-case scenario would be a lab worker contracting the flu. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control want to prevent that. They are advising the labs to destroy the vials and they are trying to reassure the public.
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, CDC DIRECTOR: Right now we have no evidence of any health threat to anyone in the community from the situation. We don't have any evidence that even a lab worker has been affected by this.
TODD: But asked by CNN if there are any unaccounted for samples floating around, a mixed response. World Health Organization officials said there are none they know of. CDC officials said their investigation is still in its early stages.
How did a mistake of this magnitude occur? Flu viruses are routinely distributed to labs for testing by the College of American Pathologists. They received this deadly strain from a Cincinnati area vendor called Meridian Bioscience. We spoke to a public health expert.
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: What it is, is a wake-up call we really have to be attuned to laboratory safety. What we don't have is a good handle -- we don't have a roster of all those laboratories and all the pathogen, all the bugs, that they contain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: CDC officials say right now they don't know why Meridian Bioscience decided to include the deadly Asian flu viruses in those shipments. An official with the College of American Pathologists says, to the best of their knowledge, Meridian knew it was sending out the strain but the company believed it was safe because the strain is listed as safe by a U.S. government publication.
Our phone calls to Meridian for comment were not returned. Wolf?
BLITZER: Brian Todd, pretty scary stuff. Thank you for our reports. And, to our viewers, please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Moving on to other news we're following today, an American man being held hostage in Iraq begged for his life today. A videotape of Jeffrey Ake's plea was aired on an Arabic TV network, al-Jazeera. CNN's State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel is joining us now, live, with more. Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Ake was kidnapped Monday near Baghdad, but it wasn't until today his name was made public, making him the 17th American civilian to be kidnapped in Iraq since the U.S. invaded two years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): The videotape aired on al-Jazeera shows armed men pointing guns at a visibly frightened Jeffrey Ake, a 47- year-old American businessman from Indiana kidnapped Monday in Iraq. Reading from a prepared statement, Ake asks the U.S. government to open a dialogue with insurgents to save his life, and calls for U.S. troops to leave Iraq, demands Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice effectively ruled out.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: Obviously, the United States continues to hold to a policy that we do not negotiate with terrorists. It only encourages them. But we are working very, very hard to try and secure the safety of the American there.
KOPPEL: Ake is founder and president of Equipment Express, which manufactures water bottle equipment. A local Indiana newspaper reports Ake was in Iraq doing business related to reconstruction. In the small city of Laporte, Indiana, a yellow ribbon marks the home where Ake lives with his wife and children. The FBI has advised his family and employees to lie low.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family's position is that they do not wish to make any comments at this time.
KOPPEL: But in nearby Rolling Prairie, where Ake's company is based, Jeffrey Ake's fate is the talk of the town.
CHIEF DAVID GARIEPY, LAPORTE POLICE: I don't know him but I've seen him and I know of him, you know. But that's -- it's really shakes you up a little bit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (on camera): A U.S. State Department official told CNN the U.S. doesn't know who kidnapped Ake and said the hostage takers could be insurgents or common criminals who are often now snatching up unsuspecting civilians, Wolf, and then trying to sell them to the highest bidder. Wolf?
BLITZER: Andrea Koppel reporting for us. Thank you, Andrea, very much.
When we come back, guilty pleas, accused serial bomber Eric Robert Rudolph faces federal judges in Birmingham and Atlanta.
Permanent presence, hints that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai wants U.S. troops in Afghanistan indefinitely.
Tense times and tough talk: how Israel will deal with Iran on the issue of nuclear weapons. I'll go one-on-one with the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: For the first time we're getting a glimpse inside the mind of Eric Rudolph. He released a statement late today after pleading guilty to four bombings including the 1996 Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in exchange for his life.
CNN's Carol Lin is outside the federal courthouse in Atlanta. She has the latest -- Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's an extraordinary statement indeed. And an insight into this man's mind. He claims that the government, first of al, was forced to make a plea deal in this bombing case because he said, quote, "Abortion has become unpopular in this country." He goes on to explain that he had planned five bombs on five different consecutive days in the Olympic Park bombing, but had to cancel that plan because he was simply not prepared.
And then he made this statement about abortion, that abortion is murder. And when the regime in Washington legalized, sanctioned and legitimized this practice, they forfeited their legitimacy and moral authority to govern. This is a man using his crimes to set forth not only his opinion about abortion, but the incompetence he felt of the federal government.
Now, two separate judges starting in Birmingham, Alabama, earlier today wanted to talk with Eric Robert Rudolph to make sure he specifically understood what he was pleading to, and that he was pleading to life in prison without any condition. They asked him very detailed questions, are you under any influence of drugs or alcohol. Did you feel any undue pressure in making this decision? In both hearings Birmingham, as well as here in Atlanta the federal court behind me, he said, no.
So the plan right now is there's a sentencing hearing in Birmingham, Alabama, July 18, when the victims will get to testify in that case. In Atlanta there are so many people who were injured in the Olympic Park bombing, Wolf, that frankly they could not set a sentencing date because they have to coordinate with so many people. But, many of the victims very anxious to look Eric Rudolph in the eye and tell him how he changed and in some cases ruined their lives, Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Carol Lin reporting for us. Carol, thank you very much for that report.
When we come back, a permanent U.S. base, a military base permanently in Afghanistan? The Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld touches on a delicate subject during a surprise visit there. We'll have details.
Also, how will Israel respond to Iran's nuclear ambitions? My interview with the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. That's coming up.
And later I'll also talk to the Palestinian Foreign Minister Nasser Al Kidwa, about Israel's plan to pull out from Gaza. Will the Palestinian's cooperate? Is it enough to move peace forward? Much more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... swathes of the Afghanistan country side. And U.S. commanders expect another spring offensive will bring an uptick in small-scale attacks, that continue to take American lives. It's one reason Afghan President Hamid Karzai said after meeting with Rumsfeld in Kabul, that Afghanistan is seeking a more permanent military relationship with the United States.
PRES. HAMID KARZAI, AFGHANISTAN: The conclusion we have drawn is the Afghan people want a longer-term relationship with the United States. They want this relationship to be a wholesome one, including a sustained economic relationship, a political relationship and most important of all, a strategic security relationship.
MCINTYRE: Karzai never mentioned bases, and Secretary Rumsfeld downplayed the idea the U.S. wants a permanent military presence in Afghanistan. Privately U.S. officials say any discussion of bases is premature. And that the U.S. might seek permission to operate in Afghanistan without keeping troops there permanently.
While Afghanistan is not in the position to defend itself, Rumsfeld says its 20,000-man army has acquitted itself well, so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: What we generally do when we work with another country is what we have been doing. We find ways that we can be helpful. It may be training, it may be equipping, it may be various other types of assistance such as is the case here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: But at an earlier briefing without outgoing U.S. military commander Lieutenant General David Barno, Rumsfeld received a more sober assessment of the Afghan police forces. The Afghan National Police are just over half strength, 35,000 of the needed 65,000. And while Barno told Rumsfeld some of those police are pretty good, many, he said are extraordinarily bad.
In Afghanistan as in Iraq the U.S. exit strategy hinges on shifting counterinsurgency operations to local forces while selling the populace on the virtues of democracy. One brigade commander told Rumsfeld he lacks the troops to do both missions as well as he would like. But there was no discussion of adding to the 20,000 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan.
In fact, Rumsfeld expressed frustration that other U.S. agencies, such as the State Department, Agriculture Department and Drug Enforcement Agency weren't doing more to help rebuild the country.
(on camera): Compared to Iraq, Afghanistan is a relative success story. But if Afghanistan is a model for how to rebuild a nation and foster democracy, the lesson it offers is that progress is slow and often hard to measure. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Kolot (ph), Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Here at home, more than 100 people and multiple law enforcement agencies are now involved in the desperate search for a missing Florida girl. Thirteen-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde was last seen at her home south of Tampa on Sunday.
Authorities say the girl has gone missing before, but always returned, adding they feel there's something suspicious this time. They also say they are questioning a registered sex offender who had some contact with Lunde's family. We are watching the story, we get news, we'll bring it to you.
When we come back, has Iran's nuclear program passed the point of no return? And will Israel do something about that? Up next my interview with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Getting out of Gaza: is an Israeli pull-out good enough for the Palestinians? Later I'll ask the Palestinian foreign minister Nasser al-Kidwa. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. And we want to welcome our viewers from CNN International as well.
We are here at Blair House, the official residence for foreign guests across the street from the White House. And joining us now the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Prime Minister, welcome to Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
SHARON: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Iran. This is an important subject. The director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency Mohamed ElBaradei says there is no evidence yet -- hard evidence -- that Iran is building a nuclear bomb. Do you have hard evidence Israel is doing so -- that Iran is doing so?
SHARON: We have evidence that Iran makes an effort to possess nuclear weapons.
BLITZER: How long would it take in your opinion, in your intelligence estimate to get to what's called the point of no return?
SHARON: I think the point of no return should be judged by technical issues. A point of no return depends upon the ability of the Iranians to solve some technical issues. And once they solve it, I think that will be the point of no return.
BLITZER: How long do you estimate that will be?
SHARON: I don't know, I don't think it's too long. I would say in order to possess a bomb that will take them time. But the problem now is entirely different.
They have some problems. In order to overcome them, they are making every effort. No doubt that they are working now in order to possess a nuclear weapon, which would regard to be a great danger not only for Israel but for Europe and for the United States.
BLITZER: Do you think that point of no return is months away or years away?
SHARON: Because we speak about technical issues that should be solved, I don't think it's a matter of years. I'd say to have a bomb that might take years, but to solve this problem the effort that they are doing and the seriosity (ph) of their activity, I believe that it can be much shorter.
BLITZER: Within -- so in other words there's only a few months left, is that what you are saying?
SHARON: In order to solve the technical issues I believe it's much shorter. It's hard to say how long it will take, because these are technical issues. But that I believe from that point alone it will be much easier for them. I know it might take, of course, several years to have a bomb. But they will make every effort to possess a bomb.
BLITZER: Did you present what you regard as hard evidence, new intelligence to President Bush the other day when you met with him in Crawford, Texas that would indicate Iran is closer to building a bomb than the U.S. government might suspect?
SHARON: ...about building a bomb, it will take time. But those issues that are -- create major concern now, of course -- we discuss issues, and Middle Eastern issues and discuss that with President Bush and with Vice President Cheney.
BLITZER: Was there tension on this issue of Iran and its nuclear ambitions, between your government and the Bush administration?
SHARON: I think that we are cooperating. There is serious intelligence cooperation, and we exchange information about it. And altogether, I think, we worry about it. And I believe that the president understands the danger of Iran to possess nuclear weapons, is of course worried about that.
And I think that we have to continue and to watch the development there. And I think we have to make the preparations to bring Iran to the Security Council.
Meanwhile, I think there are steps taken in Europe and so on. But I think the Iranians should be limited in time. And there should -- all the preparations would be done in order to be able to make -- to create a major pressure.
I think that they expect changes in Iran, internal changes. They should understand that in order that there might be changes there depends very much upon the pressure that we'll put upon Iran.
BLITZER: A lot of our viewers will remember in 1981 when Israel unilaterally bombed an Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak. Are you considering -- let me rephrase the question, at what point would Israel take unilateral military action to try to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb?
SHARON: I remember, of course, that raid in Iraq and was always proud to be a member of the inner cabinet of ministers (ph) to be active (ph) in receiving (ph) their decision (ph). I think that decision then has saved many lives. Just imagine what could have happened if Iraq would have had -- Iraq under Saddam Hussein would have had atomic weapons.
I think that here the situation is different. And the problem is different and much wider. And I think that here it should be a coalition of democracies who believe in the danger, led by United States, in order to put pressure upon Iraq -- upon Iran.
BLITZER: Have you ruled out a unilateral military strike against Iran? SHARON: We don't think that's what we have to do. We're not going to solve the problems for nobody. And then the thing that -- I'd say the danger is so great that it should be an international effort, all together. I would like you to know that Israel is not leading the struggle. Of course we exchange intelligence. We exchange views, we discuss these issues, but it's not that we are planning any military attack on Iran.
BLITZER: Let's talk about some other issues: the settlements on the West Bank -- supposedly a source of contention between the Bush administration and the Israeli government. Will your government authorize the construction of 3,500 new housing units on the West Bank at Ma'aleh Adumim, a settlement outside of Jerusalem.
SHARON: So first I think that the noise about this issue may be partially coming from the Israeli side. I must say, if I also was to pause (ph) because we speak about the plan, maybe 10 years old, that goes through the various phases of bureaucracy, and we don't speak about building now.
But it's about Ma'aleh Adumim, Ma'aleh Adumim is one of the blocks, it's a major center...
BLITZER: On the West Bank outside of Jerusalem.
SHARON: Yes, but we regard that -- the Israeli position that Ma'aleh Adumim is one of the major blocs, that the way we see it, and that's in accordance, I would say, to what -- to the letter of President Bush that I got on the 14th of April 2004 where he talked about the major blocs of Jewish population, the realities that were established there.
So Ma'aleh Adumim is one of those blocks.
BLITZER: Did the president ask you not to go ahead and expand that existing settlement. Did he ask you to stop the construction?
SHARON: I think that, altogether, this issue, I don't think that that was the purpose of my visit there, and altogether I think the president repeated what we have said, that we have to look at the road map and to act upon the road map because he's...
BLITZER: But he says, the president -- excuse me for interrupting, the president says the road map calls for a freeze of settlement activity, including what's called "natural growth," of standing, existing settlements.
SHARON: I believe that this issue will be discussed also again in the future. We have been discussing those issues. And I believe that Israel understands its commitment. And I believe that there will be discussion on these issues also in the future. But as about Ma'aleh Adumim, no doubt that's one of the major blocks, and according to the Israeli position, it will be a part of Israel in the future, and it should be contiguity between this town and Jerusalem.
BLITZER: So I take it you have authorized the construction of 3,500 additional housing units.
SHARON: No, we have not discussed it. It's also said, it's an old plan, 10 years old, passing through all the various bureaucratic steps. And that is not what we're doing.
BLITZER: Let's talk about the withdrawal from Gaza. In the early '80s, when you oversaw the withdrawal from Jewish settlements in Sinai, when you left those settlements at Yameet (ph) and also in northern Sinai, you bulldozed those housing units, basically the whole place. Are you going to leave the houses of the 8,000 Jewish settlers in Gaza intact or will you destroy them as you evacuate?
SHARON: My position, and I believe it will be the government position, to remove synagogues and the cemeteries to Israel, but to try and leave the buildings there intact. That of course needs cooperation between us and the Palestinians. At the talks in Sharm el Sheik, I raised this issue and I suggested to form a committee that will deal with these issue. By now, I would say, not because of us, because we are ready to discuss the issues -- due to some conflict inside the Palestinian Authority we have not started yet to deal with that, but I'll make every effort to leave these buildings intact.
BLITZER: Mr. Prime Minister, we have to take a short break, but we have a lot more to talk about, including the possibility of what you yourself have described as Israel perhaps being on the eve of a civil war, Israeli Jew vs. Israeli Jew. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to Blair House across the street from the White House. We're continuing our conversation with the prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Prime Minister, there are reports that some Israeli soldiers, perhaps more than just some, will refuse to obey orders and participate in the evacuation, the removal of Jewish settlers from Gaza.
How concerned are you about that?
SHARON: I believe, first, that if they are going to be, there will be very few. And I mentioned the atmosphere in Israel, I would say the atmosphere is an atmosphere that looks like an eve of a civil war. But I can tell you that, I'm going to take every step in order that things like that will not happen.
BLITZER: When you say a civil war you mean Israeli Jews fighting Israeli Jews. That would be almost unheard of in Israel.
SHARON: Not since, I would say during the last revolt against the Romans. But...
BLITZER: That was -- I mean, hundreds of years ago.
SHARON: But that's some years ago. Yes. BLITZER: There was the incident when an Israeli Jew assassinated your friend, the former prime minister of Israel, Yitzhak Rabin, 10 years ago, almost exactly. How concerned are you about your security?
SHARON: That doesn't interfere in my plans or in my timetable. I work as usual, and I do what I have to do. And myself, I'm going to make every effort that that atmosphere that we can see now will not become a reality.
BLITZER: Do you worry, though, about another far-right zealot, an Israeli Jew, wanting to kill you or other members of your cabinet, your government, or military leadership?
SHARON: I think that our security services are taking all the steps, all the needed steps in order to avoid that. That, as I say, doesn't interfere in my -- not in my plans and not in my timetable. I work as I used to work before.
BLITZER: So the notion of a civil war really erupting in Israel, is that a concern that you have?
SHARON: I would say, as I mentioned and I spoke about an atmosphere which is, there is a terrible incitement, and I can assure you one thing, that I'm going to take every step in order to avoid it.
BLITZER: Who do you believe assassinated former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri?
SHARON: I don't think that we know more than yourselves. But no doubt that the Syrians were involved in that, Syrian security services that altogether control Lebanon.
BLITZER: So you blame the Syrian security services, the Syrian government of Bashar al Assad for killing Rafiq Hariri?
SHARON: As I said, I don't have a direct evidence of that, but no doubt that the Syrian security services control Lebanon. And one of the most important things I think, and that is a very important step taken by the president is, of course, the Syrian act of accountability, and should be heavy pressure on Syria to move out of Lebanon. And that, I think, is very important.
Altogether, I think the Syrians will continue to make efforts to control Lebanon, even if the forces will be on the other side of the border, using, of course, the Iranians that are very active in Lebanon and using the Hezbollah that support the Syrians.
BLITZER: The president of Israel, Moshe Katsav, when he was at the funeral of Pope John Paul II, shook hands with the president of Syria, Bashar al Assad, and the president of Iran, Mohammed Khatami. Does that indicate a new chapter potentially between these adversaries of yours and Israel?
SHARON: No, I don't think so. What happened there, I believe that the -- being there in the funeral, he was in a position that, you know, faced him or came close to him, but that doesn't show anything about our relations. Iran is, I would say, is a country -- even, I would say, those that are so-called moderate -- not moderate according along our understanding -- even the moderates speak there about the elimination of the Jewish people and the state of Israel, and that's a national Iranian target.
So we don't see any change there. They are involved in terror. They, together with the Syrians, built the Hezbollah forces, which create this permanent tension and friction along the Lebanese border. I don't see there any changes. And I think that, of course, along our understanding, pressure should be put on Iran and pressure -- heavy pressure put on Syria in order to try and avoid any interference -- Syrian interference in Lebanon.
BLITZER: We are all out of time, but I'll leave the interview with one final question where we started the interview -- Iran. The Iranians say that Israel already has a nuclear bomb, so what's wrong with their going ahead and building a nuclear bomb, even though they deny they're doing that?
SHARON: I think that Israel made it very clear for years that was our policy, and we said very clearly that Israel will not be the first one, I will say, to use or to possess nuclear weapon. And altogether, I think that it should be -- and I remember talking with President Bush, with whom I have close relations and I'd say deep friendship, and he understands the dangers of world terror. He understands the danger of Iraq possessing a nuclear weapon. Remember, I said one thing -- one should avoid having or developing nuclear weapons by what I called irresponsible countries.
BLITZER: We'll leave it right there. The prime minister of Israel Ariel Sharon. Once again, welcome to Washington. Thanks very much for joining us on CNN.
SHARON: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
BLITZER: Prime Minister Sharon speaking with me over at Blair House across the street from the White House just a little while ago.
Coming up I'll get reaction to his comments from the Palestinian foreign minister Nasser al-Kidwa. He's standing by to join us live from Ramallah.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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BLITZER: Israelis are bitterly divided over the planned pull-out from Gaza and a small part of the West Bank. We just heard the prime minister of Israel say the atmosphere is like that on the eve of a civil war in Israel.
For Palestinian reaction, let's turn to Nasser al-Kidwa. He's the Palestinian foreign minister, former Palestinian representative at the United Nations. He's joining us now from Ramallah on the West Bank.
Mr. Minister, once again, thanks for joining us.
Let's get to the issue of coordination between Israelis and Palestinians when it comes to the Gaza withdrawal. Are you planning to cooperate, to coordinate the withdrawal so that the Israelis will not bulldoze or destroy those housing units in Gaza?
NASSER AL-KIDWA, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, we want better than that, we want serious negotiations with the Israeli side on the context of the withdrawal. We want to make sure that it will be done rightly, that there will be a full withdrawal from Gaza without problems and that we reach complete agreements with them with the regard to the assets. And how, also, to link that with the situation in the West Bank. So we are ready and we hope that they are ready, as well.
BLITZER: So in other words, you want the Israelis to leave the houses of the 8,000 Jewish settlers in Gaza intact so that Palestinians presumably could take over the houses. Is that right?
KIDWA: Well, not exactly. Unfortunately, we don't have enough information about the assets. The Israelis did not hand us any of such information.
In principle, probably there is some kind of problem with the residences because you have 2,000 -- approximately 2,000 villas. In a situation like Gaza you don't make much use of a situation like that. However, we are ready to receive the information, study it, and try to negotiate the situation with Israelis, based on the fact that there shouldn't be any reward for any assets because they are established as illegal assets in the first place.
BLITZER: But, you welcome the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza that is supposed to take place over a few weeks beginning in July?
AL-KIDWA: Absolutely. We welcome the Israeli withdrawal from any place, any part of the occupied Palestinian territory and that, of course, includes Gaza. As I said we are ready to negotiate that with Israelis in a serious way, not only to receive information from them, but to negotiate and to reach agreement on the whole thing.
BLITZER: The prime minister, you just heard him say that as far as that huge West Bank settlement, Ma'aleh Adumim, outside of Jerusalem, he wants to see it expand so that in effect it goes right up to the outskirts of Jerusalem. That is something that U.S. officials say might be contrary to the so-called road map which everyone says they support. The Palestinian position on that is what?
AL-KIDWA: Well, the Israeli position here is very unfortunate. Let me be very clear. The settlements are illegal under international law. They contradict the road map, the letter and spirit of the road map. They have to stop, otherwise we cannot have any serious prospect for peace in the region. And in this regard, of course, we appreciate the position taken by the administration, the position taken by the president, in particular.
When it comes to the settlement blocks, of course, the meaning of the letter Mr. Sharon referred to is completely different. The letter says the United States will support Israeli position in returning these settlement blocks, not to expand them in a dramatic way as Mr. Sharon is trying to do.
In addition to that, the letter should be read consistent with international law. That means that any change in the 1967 borders could come only by agreement through negotiations and based on the principle of equal exchange of territory. Otherwise, we are accepting illegal de facto situation imposed by force. This is definitely not the recipe for peace in the region.
BLITZER: Do you accept the position of the Bush administration as expressed by the president that any final settlement should take the "population realities" into consideration? In other words, the large number of Israelis who live in the so-called blocks of settlements that the prime minister is talking about, that you have to deal with that reality?
AL-KIDWA: No, the U.S. position is not only that. First, the U.S. position says that there shouldn't be any settlement activity and that all such activities must stop. This is very important. Secondly, when it comes to the settlement blocks or the population centers as you call them. They remain illegal, of course. Nevertheless as I said, if the U.S. position is read consistent with international law, we might find common ground through the United States based on the fact that there shouldn't be a change in the border. There shouldn't be at all, unless both sides agree otherwise and unless they reach agreement on the adjustment of the border to take into consideration maybe some of the facts on the ground. However, there should be an exchange of territory based on equal amount and equal value, as well.
BLITZER: The prime minister expresses his high regard for the Palestinian Authority, President Mahmoud Abbas, but he insists that the Palestinian Authority is not yet doing enough to stop violence, to stop terrorism, to crackdown on armed militants in the West Bank and Gaza. What's your response?
AL-KIDWA: Well, I think the Palestinian Authority and its presidents have done a lot, really. We see the situation on the ground. There has been a lot of action: reconstruction of the security forces; agreement with all Palestinian factions with regard to quieting down the situation completely. We have seen measures within this security forces itself including retirement and other measures.
And, of course, there is the overall problem of reform, and here I think we are very active and we are making a lot of progress in this regard. Let me stress, nevertheless, that all this has to come within the context. Israel has to do its part. Israel has to withdraw, for instance, its forces from all populated centers back to pre-September 2000 positions, otherwise we are going nowhere because it can't be a unilateral activity. It should be activities by both sides and it should -- to be aimed at least going back to the situation before the conflict and then, of course, to start negotiating in good faith based on the road map and with the aim of implementing all its provisions. BLITZER: Nasser al-Kidwa, the foreign minister of the Palestinian Authority. Mr. Minister, thanks very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation down the road.
And we want to thank our international viewers for joining us as well. They now -- CNN International will return to its regular programming.
Coming up here at the top of the hour, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Lou is standing by from New York with a preview. Lou?
LOU DOBBS, HOST "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Purely for domestic consumption, Wolf. Thank you.
At the top of this hour, the Senate's Republican leadership is accused of playing games, political games, with the immigration and border security crisis in this country. We'll have full coverage for you.
And the high cost of so-called free trade: why a leading U.S. senator says the free trade agreement with Central America should be passed because it will ship jobs out of this country rather than bring in illegal aliens. Now there's a bargain.
In "Face Off," I'll be debating a U.S. congressman who says the Mexican government has every right to give out Mexican I.D. cards to illegal aliens in this country.
We'll have all of that and a great deal more, Wolf. Now, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou. We'll be watching. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?
KEN STARR, WHITEWATER SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: I do.
BLITZER: Special prosecutor Ken Starr spent five years and $50 million investigating President Clinton. What started as a probe into the Whitewater land deal culminated in the 445-page Starr Report, detailing a salacious relationship with Monica Lewinsky and other allegations.
STARR: The president chose deception, a pattern of calculated behavior over a span of months.
BLITZER: President Clinton survived the resulting impeachment. Starr stepped into private life and out of the Beltway. He and his wife, Alice, now live in southern California. They have three children. Starr is the dean of the Pepperdine University Law School and practices law in L.A.. He says very little about the Clinton investigation, but in a recent interview he called it "challenging times that made his faith deeper."
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