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CNN Larry King Live

Interviews with Mega-Successful CEO Jonathan Tisch, High Powered Attorney Bert Fields, Plastic Surgeon Robert Singer, Author Ernestine Bradley

Aired April 16, 2005 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR, LARRY KING LIVE: Tonight, if you think the world of business is just like "The Apprentice," Loew's Hotels Chairman Jonathan Tisch says guess again. And this mega-successful CEO has his own recipe for becoming rich and powerful.
And then Bert Fields, the high-powered entertainment lawyer who's repped everyone from Tom Cruise to Steven Spielberg. Now he's trying to get to the bottom of a 400-year old controversy.

Plus, plastic surgeon Dr. Robert Singer tells you why the world needs another beauty magazine, his.

And Ernestine Bradley's remarkable journey from her birth in Nazi Germany to wife of former presidential candidate Bill Bradley to breast cancer survivor. They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE an old friend, Jonathan Tisch, remember the famed Tisch family in New York. He's chairman and CEO of Loew's Hotels and author of the "Wall Street Journal" best seller, "The Power of We: Succeeding through Partnerships." There you see its cover. What's the concept of the book? Are you saying we should all be partners?

JONATHAN TISCH, CHMN & CEO, LOEW'S HOTELS: I'm saying Larry that you can create success for yourself but also understand that you have a responsibility to others. It's about putting aside your individual concerns, working together for the greater good. You're good at some things. I'm good at some things. I've got some weaknesses.

I want to bring those people into the decision making process. I want to understand how important they are. I want to understand how important the key individuals at our hotels, I'm talking about the housekeepers, people that deliver the bags, the people that wash the plates. They're more important for my success than in many ways I am. These are the people you have to create partnerships with. It's got the power of partnerships.

KING: And are you saying that this is for business only.

TISCH: This is in any area of life. I've given this talk when I've traveled around the country the last couple months and I talked to the college kids and say, understand your responsibility to others. Work together as you get out of the school. It's about community-based organizations. It's about understanding the responsibility in the community. In the power of we, we talk about six different constituencies that you have to partner with.

Obviously your customers, your key employees, the people that run your businesses, community. You can even partner with your competitor and that's the whole basis of the association movement. As you know in New York I chair NYC company. So I'm sitting -- which is our convention visitors bureau -- I'm sitting there with heads of Hyatt Hotels and Marriott Hotels and Starwood Hotels and we're working together to bring visitors to New York City. You can partner with your competitor and that's the whole notion of the book.

KING: You got a shot at the Olympics?

TISCH: I think the Olympics are one of the most exciting things that we could be doing in New York City. Clearly a lot is riding on the stadium as Mayor Bloomberg and Deputy Mayor (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who have done a wonderful job getting the city ready for the possibility of the Olympics have said, no stadium, no Olympics.

KING: Is this book in opposition to the concept of the entrepreneur, the go it alone, I'm the guy?

TISCH: This is about a moment in time in the business community and in society where we've seen too many people trying to do it on their own. We need to go from a decade of me to a decade of we. We've read about the Enrons, the Tycos, the Adelphias. We've seen CEOs being hauled off in handcuffs. I don't think that's the way the business community should be carrying on their efforts today and this is about putting aside your concerns, your individual concerns, understanding that you can do more by working together, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) partnerships.

KING: This is teachable?

TISCH: Very much so and it's -- or even put into some college curriculums around the country, that's resonating with all kinds of individuals and it's been a remarkable experience for me to be able to talk about this as I travel around the country.

KING: Is it counter-intuitive to the basic nature of us?

TISCH: I think it is, but also, if you look at the way our country was formed, about working together, about caring of others, about not wanting to do it all yourself. You hear the term giving back and that's used a lot and certainly you know people in New York and they put on their tuxedo and they think that they're giving back. I use the phrase understanding one's responsibility to the community. And I think when you're a business leader, when you're an executive or when you're just starting out, when you're leaving college, that you understand that you have so much to give. You're not going to be great at everything. Surround yourself with people that can compliment you so you can work together and then everybody can be successful.

KING: Is this book anti Trump?

TISCH: Donald Trump is a very good friend as you know. I don't think it's anti-Trump. I think Donald is good at what he does. Donald makes no bones about it and Donald does help others. The Donald is individual in the way he sells himself and he is excellent at that but he also wants to help New York, which he does very often. He wants to help others. I don't think it's an anti-Trump book.

KING: And also there are people in this business that he counts on, right?

TISCH: Very much and you can't...

KING: You can't go it alone.

TISCH: You can't be successful in today's world and do it all yourself. It's just impossible.

KING: What about when these guys, the Ebbers and others, when they're in court, they day, I didn't know.

TISCH: Well the CEO is responsible.

KING: As a businessman, how do you react?

TISCH: The CEO's responsible. You're there in the good times and you're there in the rough times. And you just can't use that as a defensive. I think that you've got to understand, surround yourself with the right people, the people that are going to tell you the truth. A lot of times CEOs don't want to hear an honest read about what's going on in their company.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TISCH: But how can you really be the boss if you don't know what's going on?

KING: I know you a long time. What led you to write -- I never Jonathan Tisch. You're so successful. You're so caught up in your business, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Tisch family. What led you to sit down and write a book?

TISCH: Larry, I grew up watching and learning from the ultimate partnership and that is of my father and late uncle.

KING: Larry Tisch.

TISCH: Larry Tisch.

KING: And Bob Tisch.

TISCH: Exactly. And I learned so much from them.

KING: They were different people.

TISCH: Very different, Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside. My uncle would buy the companies. My father would run them and it worked very well for us. I've been so fortunate in my life and I just want to have the chance to try to work with others to get them to a point where they can really be successful and that's the motivation of the work. I really believe in this notion of working together, of listening to what you have to say. Everybody has a comment. Everybody's got an idea, so listen and these are the themes in the book and I've just -- to be able to have done what I've done in my life and then go on the road and write a book and talk to so many different groups and give speeches, has been a truly wonderful moment.

KING: You have also Jimmy Carter in the book, as an example of, in what relationship?

TISCH: We talked -- we have profiles in partnership, individuals, politicians, business leaders, people in the pro bono world, who have done very well understanding how important it is to work together. We look at Jimmy Carter. We look at Sir Howard Stringer who just became chair of Sony. We look at David Neeleman from Jet Blue and Kate Carver (ph) runs the Pediatric AIDS Foundation. These are people who have not gotten so their pinnacle of success because they've done it all by themselves. They've brought so many people into their lives, into their companies, into their organizations, to achieve that level of success and they're talked about in the power of we.

KING: Are you surprised at how well it's doing?

TISCH: I am shocked Larry. I know you've written a couple books and you've been through this process, 40,000 books, third printing, number eight on the "Wall Street Journal" list. With my family and you know a lot of the people that unfortunate to call relatives and my mother and father, first person to write a book, first person to be in the library of Congress in my family, so it's been a remarkable experience.

KING: You uncle should have written a book and your father (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TISCH: Very much so. And we talk about them a lot in the book. We tell some stories about the family and I just -- I'm a very fortunate individual and this is my way of hopefully trying to educate a few other people about how you can get there.

KING: Thanks Jon.

TISCH: Thank you Larry.

KING: Jonathan Tisch. He's one of the best. He's the author of "The Wall Street Journal" best seller, "The Power of We: Succeeding through Partnerships." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE one of my favorite people. He is also my attorney, just for the record, Bert Fields, widely regarded as one of the most prominent entertainment attorneys in the world, author of a terrific new book "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." Bert has written novels, wrote another book called "Royal Blood," which was a terrific read. Are you a Shakespearian freak?

BERT FIELDS, ENTERTAINMENT ATTY: No, not really. I'm a history freak.

KING: What led you into this?

FIELDS: I was always curious about whether or not the guy from Stratford really wrote all those poems and plays, because he had almost no education, sixth grade education at best. He could barely write his name. We have six shaky signatures by the guy and yet, the fellow who wrote the poems and plays, spoke French, Italian, Greek and Latin, had great knowledge of legal terminology, naval...

KING: So you're saying it's obvious it wasn't him.

FIELDS: I'm not saying it's obvious but I'm saying...

KING: ... a good indication.

FIELDS: I'm saying it's pretty likely. The guy who wrote the plays had three times the vocabulary of anybody who was alive at the time. It is just -- it's very difficult to conceive of the guy from Stratford who, as far as we know, had never been out of England, knowing all these things. How do you know about foreign cities and foreign customs and etiquette in court?

KING: As you trace it back, was this a tough investigation?

FIELDS: I don't think it was tough. It was a lot of fun doing it. I enjoyed that. The British were great.

KING: getting over there, right.

FIELDS: Oh, yeah. I thought they would be resentful of an American taking on an English icon. They weren't at all. They were just terrific. I went to the College of Arms in Queen Victoria Street. I said, I'd like to look at William Shakespeare's application for a coat of arms. And they said, oh yeah, sure, bring down this box and set it in front of me, there the original documents and the guy says, will you excuse me. I have to go the men's room. And he's leaving me with these multi-billion dollar documents.

KING: Well, what do we know of the bard?

FIELDS: Well, we know, you got to separate the bard who wrote the poems and plays.

KING: And what do know of the man known as the bard?

FIELD: The Stratford guy?

KING: Yes, the Stratford guy.

FIELDS: He was born in '64, 1564. He went to the local grammar school we think. We don't think he finished.

KING: No biography of him?

FIELDS: Oh, there are dozens of biographies, but most of them talk about the guy who wrote the poems and plays and assume that it was the guy from Stratford. If you just look at what we know about the guy from Stratford, born in 1564, probably went to grammar school, got married because his wife was pregnant. She was eight years older than he was. After three years of marriage and three kids, left her, went to London for 12 years and went on the stage, became an actor. Then later in life went back to Stratford and did a lot of kind of petty selfish things. That's one of the problems you have is this guy didn't behave like the fellow who wrote those marvelous plays. He was very litigious. He sued people for a pound and 15 shillings. He hoarded grain so he could up the price at the time of great shortage. He just did all kinds of...

KING: Was he wealthy?

FIELDS: He was more wealthy than you would think an actor would be and yet if you look, there is no record of his ever being paid as a playwright.

KING: No.

FIELDS: No. He did plays for a guy named Henslow (ph) who kept meticulous records of every playwright he ever paid. There is not any record of this guy being paid.

KING: Then it's obvious, how did he get famous? How did he...

FIELDS: Well, it isn't obvious because no one will really ever be able to prove it, one way or another. T.S. Eliot said the best you could hope for in talking about Shakespeare is to be wrong in some new and different way, because you can never prove it. How did, why did this happen? It was not done for a nobleman or an aspiring politician like Francis Bacon.

KING: It wasn't Francis Bacon.

FIELDS: Well it could have been Francis Bacon. It could have been Oxford. It could have been Christopher Marlow. Some people say it was Queen Elizabeth. I don't think so. Wouldn't it be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to think so. A nobleman or an aspiring politician like Bacon could not write for the public theater. Public theater was disreputable, officially frowned upon.

KING: Low class.

FIELDS: Yeah, you couldn't do it. So a guy like Oxford would write plays for his friends, couldn't do it for the public theater, but if he could find a young, venal actor from Stratford who would pretend that these were his plays and pay him a little money to do this, that would be fine.

KING: And you investigate all this mysterious identity. How old was Shakespeare when he died?

FIELDS: He was 52. That was old in those days.

KING: He did not live a long life by today's... FIELDS: By today's standard no...

KING: Was he acclaimed in his time?

FIELDS: Oh yes and that's one of the curious things. By the time the Stratford guy died, William Shakespeare, the poet and playwright, was famous and yet when the Stratford guy died, there was no mention that the great Shakespeare had died. Why?

KING: Why?

FIELDS: Because maybe he wasn't the great Shakespeare. How could they not mention that he died? And yet there's nothing, not a word. When other authors died, there are huge, huge outpourings.

KING: Why didn't the person who was writing it, once the acclaim occurred, take credit?

FIELDS: Because it still wasn't done to write for the theater. If you're the Earl of Oxford, you don't want to be famous for writing for the theater.

KING: The Earl of Oxford doesn't want to be known as the guy who wrote "Hamlet."

FIELDS: That's right. He does not. He's doesn't mind if a couple of friends know. He likes that. That's good for his ego, but he can't publicly be known as the guy who writes for the theater. In the case of Christopher Marlowe, there's even a better reason. Christopher Marlowe was wanted. If they found the papers that were attributed to him and were heretical, were blasphemous, he was probably going to be burned at the stake and all of a sudden, he gets into a fight over a check in a restaurant (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and gets killed in this fight. He's with three buddies and all of sudden he's buried. They had a coroner's inquest. It's all covered up. Maybe Christopher Marlowe went to Italy and wrote Shakespeare, maybe.

KING: ...didn't die.

FIELDS: ... didn't die at all. That's one theory.

KING: We'll be right back with more of Bert Fields. The book is "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." We'll be right back with Bert Fields.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: His previous book was "Royal Blood," Richard III and the Mystery of the Princesses." It's the Richardian book of the year award from the Richardian Society. And now he brings this attorney's approach to history in "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." His name is Bert Fields. He's renowned throughout the entertainment industry. Do you think it may have been two people?

FIELDS: I think it was two people. I think that the basic author, who was a man of enormous learning, widely traveled, a sense of great humanity and a sensitivity, wrote a first draft, maybe a second draft, turned the play over to the front, who was the guy from Stratford and I think the guy from Stratford, who know a lot about the stage. He was a great realist, would say, hey, boss. This don't play. We got to change the ending here in let's say "Merchant of Venice." He said, we're going to make fun of the Jew at the end. You can't just let this guy go and so they added that he has to convert to Christianity, Shylock. When Portia, who makes that great speech about the quality of mercy is not strained and then immediately after, she merciless to Shylock. I think that the Stratford guy added that at the end, the conversion because that would play. The audience loved it.

KING: How did Shakespeare handle his fame?

FIELDS: Well, if you're talking about the Stratford guy...

KING: The Stratford guy. You can him in the book, the Stratford guy.

FIELDS: Well, because if you don't, you get confused. Many people who have written books on the subject say, keep talking about the things that Shakespeare did and they assume they were done by the Stratford man. But...

KING: The Stratford man is the puppet here.

FIELDS: Well, that's the theory. The theory is...

KING: What theory?

FIELDS: Well, as I say, I can't prove it, no one will ever prove it. No one will ever prove the other. But it's just what I think is more logical than not and I think that he went around -- he applied for a coat of armed as I told you, because he wanted to be a gentleman. If you have a coat of arms, then you could be called gentleman and after that, he was William Shakespeare, gentleman and he had a model, not without right and Ben Johnson, who was very funny guy, put on a shoe in which he made fun of Shakespeare and he had a pompous guy to update a coat of arms with the motto not without mustard. And Shakespeare knew this was for him and I suspect he was somewhat upset.

KING: Did the Stratford guy marry?

FIELDS: The Stratford guy married very early in life. I think that's when he left his wife after three years of marriage and went on to live in London, came back to Stratford at the very end, not at the very end, a few years before the end and I guess went back to his wife.

KING: Stories that he might have been the real writer, gay?

FIELDS: Yes. I say yes, not that was definitely gay, but it's a real issue. If you read the sonnets, he's writing to a beautiful young man and he says you're the master, mistress of my passion. Can I compare thee to a summer's day, things like that, which is not -- I don't say that to you when we meet or at least they don't know about it. So many people believe he was gay. Oscar Wilde believed he was gay, but Oscar Wilde was gay.

KING: How great a writer was whoever wrote this?

FIELDS: Incredible. I think he's...

KING: No one in his league.

FIELDS: No one in his league. I think you take those plays and the more I read them, the more I thought, this guy is just amazing.

KING: And we use his language all the time and we're not even knowing it.

FIELDS: All the time.

KING: Shakespeare's quoted every day and in everyday language.

FIELDS: Every day. In court I use it all the time, all the time. There's a wonderful story about a southern trial lawyer who quotes from Shakespeare and says to the jury, the Bible say and he gives a quote from Shakespeare and his friend, who was visiting from New York said, hey, that's Shakespeare. That's not the Bible. And the trial lawyer said, listen, I know my juries and I'm not going to tell them it's Shakespeare.

KING: Do you have two lives Bert.

FIELDS: At least.

KING: You're a lawyer by day, writer by night.

FIELDS: Writer by night.

KING: How do -- with all your clients and as busy as you are, how do you get the time?

FIELDS: I do it mostly weekends, vacations and occasional trips to London to do the research. I just love it and it's a hobby.

KING: Working on another one?

FIELDS: I'm about to start.

KING: On?

FIELDS: Television interviewers.

KING: What fascinates you about Richard III, Shakespeare? Why?

FIELDS: Mysteries -- they're historical mysteries. Remember Richard III, there was a big mystery. Did he kill his nephews in the tower of London? Was he this hunchbacked withered guy and so I wanted to find out if he really was and I paced the tower of London, did all kinds of stuff like that. But solving the mystery is part of the fun. As far as why English, because it's my basic language and I would hate to try and do research in French, because my French really extends to French plumbing and eating.

KING: Is it true that the actors have said, you can never really play Shakespeare? I mean you can attempt to. You can't master it.

FIELDS: I think people can master it. What's interesting about it is the really great rolls have so much room for interpretation. You take a role like Shylock. We were talking before. I mean Shylock has been played all the way from a monster.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

FIELDS: hugely sympathetic guy and you can read all...

KING: The same language.

FIELDS: The same language, the same words, the same lines and everything but you can interpret those lines in different ways and that's what's great about Shakespeare.

KING: Bert, it's an honor having you with us.

FIELDS: A pleasure to be with you Larry.

KING: The book is "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare," written by one of the best lawyers there is, Bert Fields. It's published by Regan Books. More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE, Dr. Robert Singer, MD. He's the co-chairman of the editorial advisory board of a new publication, "New Beauty," I'm holding a copy in my hand. He's a board certified plastic surgeon and past president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. What are you doing being involved with a magazine. This comes out twice a year?

DR. ROBERT SINGER, MD, PLASTIC SURGEON: It comes out twice a share. The launch issue was in January and why did I get involved?

I've had a long history as well as the other co-chair, Dr. Simon Fredericks, on being involved in surgical education and organizations. We have been involved in educating plastic surgeons, educating the public, delivering safety, concepts of ethics. This was an opportunity for an extension of that career to carry that message effectively to the public.

The medical societies and organizations have a good message but they haven't been able to package it effectively to get the message to the consumer. This was a method to do that.

KING: So this is a book about things that happened to you in plastic surgery. I noticed this liposuction, smile makeovers, beauty products, sexy skin, all things that you would deal with, the nature of looking better.

SINGER: It's not only that. It's not just for the person who is going to have plastic surgery or wants plastic surgery. It's a comprehensive resource guide about beauty. It involves other specialties who deal with beauty. Dermatologists, dentists, facial plastic surgeons, otolaryngologists. What that does is it allows us to come out with an approach of scientific validity to deal with -- what about the person who doesn't want surgery? What about the person who wants some over the counter products? What about the person who is thinking about it? How do they select a surgeon?

So it's an informative guide rather than just a book about plastic surgery.

KING: Why only two issues a year? Seems like it would be a monthly.

SINGER: There is a lot of content and what differentiates this from all of the other publications out there are the articles are reviewed by two of the members of the scientific advisory or editorial board. For content validity, there is a lot of hype, there is a lot of spin and a lot of things out there that are being promoted that have no basis for safety and efficacy. These articles are reviewed. That takes a lot of work and a lot of ...

KING: So if you're writing about skin, two dermatologists have read that article?

SINGER: That's correct. If there is about plastic surgery, at least two plastic surgeons ...

KING: Because we're in a blind item here? From the public's standpoint. You see industrials and people talking about creams and do this for your face and magic elixirs. What do you do as the public?

SINGER: That's the reason for this. There is tremendous confusion. In the past the method that something came to the marketplace was someone had an idea scientifically. It went to the lab. It was worked on, developed. Once it was proven and then came to scientific presentation and meeting. Then it was incorporated and practiced, then it was brought to the public. Today, that whole world was different. What happens now is a manufacturer or marketeer gets an idea, they develop the idea, they immediately take it to the consumer or the marketplace or to the media. There may be no scientific validity. It may not even be shown to be safe as well as not work.

So this fills that gap of saying, OK, let's look at all these new developments and let's give the public the information. Is it safe? Does it work? Is it new? Does it have promise? Or is it just bogus?

KING: Where is it obtainable?

SINGER: It's obtainable through most of the bookstores across the country. It is also attainable through newbeauty.com, our Web site.

KING: Why did you choose plastic surgery? You wanted to be a doctor, right? So you have a lot of choices.

SINGER: I originally was going to be a cardiologist. My dad had a heart attack when I was a little kid. His cardiologist was a very nice gentlemen who gave me a book about it, I read about it, I wanted to become a physician. I wanted to do something worthwhile and to give back. I eventually went to Stanford to become a neurosurgeon. At Stanford, after rotating in neurosurgery and some of the other specialties I had an exposure to plastic surgery.

For me, it was a good blend. I'm detail-oriented. I felt it was creative, didn't have the same dogma. It wasn't locked into certain principles of other surgery. It made patients happy. You saw instantaneous results. And it was creative.

KING: So you discovered it in medical school?

SINGER: I discovered it in my residency and surgery.

KING: No kidding. And what makes someone good at it? What would you look for in a young, would be doctor?

SINGER: Well, you look at someone who is dedicated, somebody who is ethical ...

KING: Aesthetic?

SINGER: Well, somebody who has an aesthetic sense. Someone who is willing to put in the hard work to learn the core principles about physiology, anatomy, taking care of patients, and someone who is not self promotional, someone who ...

KING: Really? Because some of you are, you know.

SINGER: ... is willing to teach. Unfortunately that occurs in every profession in every area. I think the vast number of plastic surgeons. And I have been fortunate to meet plastic surgeons from all over the world. A vast number of plastic surgeons are dedicated, hard-working, they have spent years in training and they give back to their community.

KING: Why are they called plastic surgeons?

SINGER: Most commonly asked question. It comes from the Greek word plastikos, which means to move, and that is essentially what we are doing. We are moving tissue. We are shifting it. It is the number of cases you use as synthetic material and are a small percentage. So it comes from the concept of moving the tissue.

KING: The field was invented before plastics, in a sense. Plastics is a common phenomenon of the '40s, I think.

SINGER: The field goes back to ancient Indian and ancient Egyptian history. Reconstruction of facial deformities existed then. So it's centuries old.

KING: You magazine comes out twice a year. You can get it at newbeauty.com, right? Or at book stores, magazine stores, it's "New Beauty." The guest is Dr. Robert Singer and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: The concept of "New Beauty" deals with five editorial sections, skin, face, smile, body, mind. That's in every issue. Those five.

SINGER: Every issue.

KING: There were articles about them?

SINGER: Yes.

KING: There's advertising, too, I would assume?

SINGER: There is advertising.

KING: Is the ads carefully monitored?

SINGER: Ah, yes. Not only are the articles looked at for scientific validity, but the articles are looked at to make sure that they are ethical in their statements. That the individuals have the credentials as are stated and that they are marked as ads.

KING: Why is the field so popular?

SINGER: We're a society that is interested in self-improvement. Plastic surgery is not a new phenomenon. If you look through centuries, there has always been an interest in self-improvement, skincare...

KING: But it used to be you denied you went. Now people talk about it.

SINGER: Right. We're a much more open society, so those aspects of self-improvement are talked about. The media has covered it extensively. The frequency of surgery is increasing, but there is a lot of reasons. Better, more natural results, less invasive procedures, safer procedures, better-trained surgeons. We live in a competitive society with business and anything that gives us that edge of making us feel better about ourselves may be an advantage. Plastic surgery isn't for everyone, but it's an option.

KING: More men involved?

SINGER: An increasing number of men and women in the last year the American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery statistics said that there were almost 12 million surgical and non-surgical cosmetic enhancement procedures done. About 10 percent of it males, but increasing in both males and females.

KING: You were not interested in reconstructive surgeries? Treating an accident victim?

SINGER: I do a lot of reconstruction.

KING: Because aesthetics we think of is only for looking better.

SINGER: The best trained aesthetic surgeons are those that have a good background in reconstructive. The best reconstructive surgeons have an aesthetic sense. They go hand in hand. You can't really separate them. The principles remain the same. The core training of a real plastic surgeon who is board-certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery is usually a minimum of four years in general surgery, then additional -- that's after medical school. And additional two years of supervised training with increased responsibility in a plastic surgery residency.

Then they can take the examination for the American Board of Plastic Surgery. I was fortunate -- I was asked to help administer that exam to the applicants. The individuals are examined in reconstruction, they are examined in cosmetic or aesthetic. They are examined in judgment, selection of patients. They are examined in ethics. So there is a lot involved to be a real board-certified plastic surgeon.

KING: Do you know, Dr. Singer, how it is going to come out?

SINGER: How what is going to come out?

KING: How the new face is going to look? Do you know when you're doing it how it is going to come out?

SINGER: I think with a lot of experience you have an idea of the direction you want to go but part of that is the discussion with the patient. What is the patient looking for? What is realistic? What's not realistic? That's part of the good education of a well-trained surgeon and communicating that to the patient.

KING: Not miracles.

SINGER: There is no miracles. There is certain genetic aspects, inherited cheeks people have.

KING: High cheekbones are high cheekbones.

SINGER: You can't create a total different person. Nor do most people want that. They want to look natural. They want to look improved.

People ask, well, could you do this? And bring a photo. And I say, when I can walk on water I can do that, and I am never going to be able to walk on water.

KING: Botox and its increasing popularity. Why?

SINGER: Quick. Reproducible in most people's hands as far as the results. Temporary, so it has no permanent problems. Cost- effective. And you basically, if it is administered well, looks very natural. In and out procedure.

KING: But if it is not administered well it looks like you are staring. There is no frown. SINGER: Correct, but most people want to look natural and I think that's part of the evolution and the advancement of knowing there are different techniques to get good results.

KING: What's it like to run a magazine? Co-chairman of the editorial advisory board. That's apart from your field. That's not a scalpel.

SINGER: Well, I'm not the publisher.

KING: You're not the editor.

SINGER: Nor the publisher, and that's Adam Sandow from Sandow Media. But it's labor intensive. It takes a lot of time, a lot of effort. We have surrounded ourselves with good people on the editorial advisory board.

KING: Where are you published?

SINGER: It's published in Florida.

KING: Out of Florida. Is that where you practice?

SINGER: No. I practice in La Jolla, California.

KING: Oh, down the road.

SINGER: Just down the road.

KING: Not a bad place.

SINGER: Somebody has to live there.

KING: Are most plastic surgeons referred? Do they get their patients through referral?

SINGER: I think it depends on the type of practice and each individual. Many of us have as a basis of our practice patient to patient referrals. There are an increasing number of people who advertise because the marketplace is ...

KING: Do you?

SINGER: I don't personally. I have good friends and respected colleagues who do. I have nothing -- I am not opposed to advertising as long as it is ethical, as long as it doesn't create expectations beyond what can be delivered. As long as credentials are honest. But remember, only the ethical are encumbered by ethics.

KING: Is there a most difficult area of the face to work? Is a nose harder than the eyes?

SINGER: It depends on what your experiences are. If you do something frequently, if you are well-trained in it, it doesn't become a difficult area. If you take a weekend course in a motel and you have no background in formal plastic surgery training, and unfortunately, there are more and more people coming into plastic surgery who have poor training or no training, then it is going to be very hard for them, but for a well-trained surgeon, those areas, those are the things they go through in training.

KING: Next time we do a big panel on this we're going to have you come back. Thank you, doctor.

SINGER: It's a pleasure, thank you.

KING: The magazine is "New Beauty, the Ultimate Cosmetic Enhancement Guide." The guest, Dr. Robert Singer, co-chairman of the editorial advisory board, past president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome Ernestine Bradley to LARRY KING LIVE. Naturalized United States citizen, wife of the former Democratic presidential candidate Bill Bradley, the great basketball star. She once had breast cancer, hopefully that's all fine, and she's the author of a remarkable new memoir, "The Way Home, a German Childhood, an American Life."

What did you mean, Ernestine, by "The Way Home"?

ERNESTINE BRADLEY, AUTHOR, "THE WAY HOME": By "The Way Home" it's a little bit complicated because obviously coming from a different country, you uproot and then you come over here and you try to put your roots down and then this is a very flexible society so geographically, of course, I am from the Northeast but I have come to the conclusion as I was writing this book that I am really at home, or I hope I am at home, in the hearts of those that I love and I know that they are at home in my heart.

KING: What led to writing it?

BRADLEY: Well, you know, I had started out during Bill's campaign for the presidential Democratic nomination and there was a town archivist who thought he knew more about my parents and whose daughter I was than I. And I was a little upset and I felt I really had to go into the details and find out who my father was even though I thought I knew who he was and then as I did that research I also really felt that this is something I want my grandchildren to have, that when they are grown up and I am no longer here, they should know from my part of the family where they come from.

And then as I started to write, a lot of people said, oh my goodness, you know, this is something you may like to share, like my breast cancer experience or the immigrant experience or being married and still trying to hang on to a profession. So after a while I felt, yes, but for me maybe even more important was the thing that I wanted to communicate that people should have the courage to pursue a dream and the courage to find their limitations and I think I've found my limitations.

KING: How old were you when you came to the United States? BRADLEY: When I came to the United States I was 21, so I knew what I was doing, I followed the American Dream, it was a little bit after the post war period, I came in '57 and, of course, America was the country that the whole world wanted to go to and I was very lucky because I had studied and I had knew several languages and at that time Pan-Am was looking for stewardesses who spoke several languages because they started the overseas flights and here I was, and I was accepted.

KING: Do you have memories of swastikas?

BRADLEY: Yes. Swastikas I definitely have memories of and -- but it's very tricky because I have also seen so many pictures that always have swastikas in them, but I do know, for example, in 1945 when women would take the red flags with the white circle and the black swastika and they would pull them apart and make skirts out of the red material and blouses out of the white because there were no clothes to be had. So in a sense it is a sacrilege to do that with the flag, but it was not a sacrilege to do it with that flag, I think.

KING: Did you bear any -- What were your feelings toward American troops coming in?

BRADLEY: Well, oh my goodness, Larry, if I could spend a little time on that, I was 10 years old and my mother had decided that the city was too dangerous so we stayed out in the country and there one day maybe April, maybe May of 1945 and there came the American combat troops and it was such an overwhelming impression. They were not what you would imagine victorious armies to be. They were not jubilant, they were not glorious, they were tired, exhausted, they were dusted, they did not march, they sort of walked and talked with each other.

But, and this is what really, really impressed me. It was endless. Now I would think it went on for hours and hours, I don't really know. But to me it became a sense of now glamour but overwhelming powerfulness and that has stayed with me really for the rest of my life.

KING: What did your dad do?

BRADLEY: My father -- My biological father, I should say. He was in the air force. He was ground personnel, adjutant? I don't know ...

KING: Adjutant.

BRADLEY: Yes, exactly. And he was mostly stationed in France and in Italy. And at the end of the war he was taken prisoner in North Germany by the British and escaped and this of course became part of the family mythology until I got so tired of it. Because he would always talk about how he fled the camp and made his way back down to Bavaria, where he was from, disguised as a farmer with, I don't know, a pipe in his mouth and on a bicycle, because he wanted to go to a prisoner of war camp in his home town, thinking that would be better, and it was the American occupation zone.

It would be much better, he wanted to be close to his family, to his mother and my brother and me.

KING: Was America all you thought it would be?

BRADLEY: When I came over, oh, it was so much more because I really -- I remember soon, maybe in '49, 1950 a couple came and visited in America, and said, can you believe in New York there is a restaurant on every block and their skyscrapers are bigger than their churches. And, of course, for me this was totally incredible. So when I came it was like walking into a dream, not having a dream become reality, but suddenly you are in the dream and all the things you had not even quite imagined were true and even better.

KING: A couple of other things. We want to have you come back and talk more on this. Do a panel on this. This extraordinary book, how are you doing? You had the breast cancer 15 years ago, you had a mastectomy, chemotherapy, are you OK?

BRADLEY: Exactly. You know, yes. People say sometimes, oh, you're in remission. And I say, no, no, God forbid I would have a different cancer, but it would be a different cancer, it would not be remission and I have been fine and I have been grateful every day.

KING: You were a delight in the campaign. You are more delightful now. A pleasure having you with us. And a great book, I congratulate you.

BRADLEY: Thank you, Larry, thank you so much.

KING: Ernestine Bradley, "The Way Home, a German Childhood, an American Life." And a terrific read. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Thanks for joining us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. We'll be back again tomorrow night. Stay tuned for more news around the clock on your most trusted name in news, CNN. Good night.

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Aired April 16, 2005 - 21:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR, LARRY KING LIVE: Tonight, if you think the world of business is just like "The Apprentice," Loew's Hotels Chairman Jonathan Tisch says guess again. And this mega-successful CEO has his own recipe for becoming rich and powerful.
And then Bert Fields, the high-powered entertainment lawyer who's repped everyone from Tom Cruise to Steven Spielberg. Now he's trying to get to the bottom of a 400-year old controversy.

Plus, plastic surgeon Dr. Robert Singer tells you why the world needs another beauty magazine, his.

And Ernestine Bradley's remarkable journey from her birth in Nazi Germany to wife of former presidential candidate Bill Bradley to breast cancer survivor. They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE an old friend, Jonathan Tisch, remember the famed Tisch family in New York. He's chairman and CEO of Loew's Hotels and author of the "Wall Street Journal" best seller, "The Power of We: Succeeding through Partnerships." There you see its cover. What's the concept of the book? Are you saying we should all be partners?

JONATHAN TISCH, CHMN & CEO, LOEW'S HOTELS: I'm saying Larry that you can create success for yourself but also understand that you have a responsibility to others. It's about putting aside your individual concerns, working together for the greater good. You're good at some things. I'm good at some things. I've got some weaknesses.

I want to bring those people into the decision making process. I want to understand how important they are. I want to understand how important the key individuals at our hotels, I'm talking about the housekeepers, people that deliver the bags, the people that wash the plates. They're more important for my success than in many ways I am. These are the people you have to create partnerships with. It's got the power of partnerships.

KING: And are you saying that this is for business only.

TISCH: This is in any area of life. I've given this talk when I've traveled around the country the last couple months and I talked to the college kids and say, understand your responsibility to others. Work together as you get out of the school. It's about community-based organizations. It's about understanding the responsibility in the community. In the power of we, we talk about six different constituencies that you have to partner with.

Obviously your customers, your key employees, the people that run your businesses, community. You can even partner with your competitor and that's the whole basis of the association movement. As you know in New York I chair NYC company. So I'm sitting -- which is our convention visitors bureau -- I'm sitting there with heads of Hyatt Hotels and Marriott Hotels and Starwood Hotels and we're working together to bring visitors to New York City. You can partner with your competitor and that's the whole notion of the book.

KING: You got a shot at the Olympics?

TISCH: I think the Olympics are one of the most exciting things that we could be doing in New York City. Clearly a lot is riding on the stadium as Mayor Bloomberg and Deputy Mayor (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who have done a wonderful job getting the city ready for the possibility of the Olympics have said, no stadium, no Olympics.

KING: Is this book in opposition to the concept of the entrepreneur, the go it alone, I'm the guy?

TISCH: This is about a moment in time in the business community and in society where we've seen too many people trying to do it on their own. We need to go from a decade of me to a decade of we. We've read about the Enrons, the Tycos, the Adelphias. We've seen CEOs being hauled off in handcuffs. I don't think that's the way the business community should be carrying on their efforts today and this is about putting aside your concerns, your individual concerns, understanding that you can do more by working together, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) partnerships.

KING: This is teachable?

TISCH: Very much so and it's -- or even put into some college curriculums around the country, that's resonating with all kinds of individuals and it's been a remarkable experience for me to be able to talk about this as I travel around the country.

KING: Is it counter-intuitive to the basic nature of us?

TISCH: I think it is, but also, if you look at the way our country was formed, about working together, about caring of others, about not wanting to do it all yourself. You hear the term giving back and that's used a lot and certainly you know people in New York and they put on their tuxedo and they think that they're giving back. I use the phrase understanding one's responsibility to the community. And I think when you're a business leader, when you're an executive or when you're just starting out, when you're leaving college, that you understand that you have so much to give. You're not going to be great at everything. Surround yourself with people that can compliment you so you can work together and then everybody can be successful.

KING: Is this book anti Trump?

TISCH: Donald Trump is a very good friend as you know. I don't think it's anti-Trump. I think Donald is good at what he does. Donald makes no bones about it and Donald does help others. The Donald is individual in the way he sells himself and he is excellent at that but he also wants to help New York, which he does very often. He wants to help others. I don't think it's an anti-Trump book.

KING: And also there are people in this business that he counts on, right?

TISCH: Very much and you can't...

KING: You can't go it alone.

TISCH: You can't be successful in today's world and do it all yourself. It's just impossible.

KING: What about when these guys, the Ebbers and others, when they're in court, they day, I didn't know.

TISCH: Well the CEO is responsible.

KING: As a businessman, how do you react?

TISCH: The CEO's responsible. You're there in the good times and you're there in the rough times. And you just can't use that as a defensive. I think that you've got to understand, surround yourself with the right people, the people that are going to tell you the truth. A lot of times CEOs don't want to hear an honest read about what's going on in their company.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TISCH: But how can you really be the boss if you don't know what's going on?

KING: I know you a long time. What led you to write -- I never Jonathan Tisch. You're so successful. You're so caught up in your business, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Tisch family. What led you to sit down and write a book?

TISCH: Larry, I grew up watching and learning from the ultimate partnership and that is of my father and late uncle.

KING: Larry Tisch.

TISCH: Larry Tisch.

KING: And Bob Tisch.

TISCH: Exactly. And I learned so much from them.

KING: They were different people.

TISCH: Very different, Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside. My uncle would buy the companies. My father would run them and it worked very well for us. I've been so fortunate in my life and I just want to have the chance to try to work with others to get them to a point where they can really be successful and that's the motivation of the work. I really believe in this notion of working together, of listening to what you have to say. Everybody has a comment. Everybody's got an idea, so listen and these are the themes in the book and I've just -- to be able to have done what I've done in my life and then go on the road and write a book and talk to so many different groups and give speeches, has been a truly wonderful moment.

KING: You have also Jimmy Carter in the book, as an example of, in what relationship?

TISCH: We talked -- we have profiles in partnership, individuals, politicians, business leaders, people in the pro bono world, who have done very well understanding how important it is to work together. We look at Jimmy Carter. We look at Sir Howard Stringer who just became chair of Sony. We look at David Neeleman from Jet Blue and Kate Carver (ph) runs the Pediatric AIDS Foundation. These are people who have not gotten so their pinnacle of success because they've done it all by themselves. They've brought so many people into their lives, into their companies, into their organizations, to achieve that level of success and they're talked about in the power of we.

KING: Are you surprised at how well it's doing?

TISCH: I am shocked Larry. I know you've written a couple books and you've been through this process, 40,000 books, third printing, number eight on the "Wall Street Journal" list. With my family and you know a lot of the people that unfortunate to call relatives and my mother and father, first person to write a book, first person to be in the library of Congress in my family, so it's been a remarkable experience.

KING: You uncle should have written a book and your father (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TISCH: Very much so. And we talk about them a lot in the book. We tell some stories about the family and I just -- I'm a very fortunate individual and this is my way of hopefully trying to educate a few other people about how you can get there.

KING: Thanks Jon.

TISCH: Thank you Larry.

KING: Jonathan Tisch. He's one of the best. He's the author of "The Wall Street Journal" best seller, "The Power of We: Succeeding through Partnerships." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE one of my favorite people. He is also my attorney, just for the record, Bert Fields, widely regarded as one of the most prominent entertainment attorneys in the world, author of a terrific new book "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." Bert has written novels, wrote another book called "Royal Blood," which was a terrific read. Are you a Shakespearian freak?

BERT FIELDS, ENTERTAINMENT ATTY: No, not really. I'm a history freak.

KING: What led you into this?

FIELDS: I was always curious about whether or not the guy from Stratford really wrote all those poems and plays, because he had almost no education, sixth grade education at best. He could barely write his name. We have six shaky signatures by the guy and yet, the fellow who wrote the poems and plays, spoke French, Italian, Greek and Latin, had great knowledge of legal terminology, naval...

KING: So you're saying it's obvious it wasn't him.

FIELDS: I'm not saying it's obvious but I'm saying...

KING: ... a good indication.

FIELDS: I'm saying it's pretty likely. The guy who wrote the plays had three times the vocabulary of anybody who was alive at the time. It is just -- it's very difficult to conceive of the guy from Stratford who, as far as we know, had never been out of England, knowing all these things. How do you know about foreign cities and foreign customs and etiquette in court?

KING: As you trace it back, was this a tough investigation?

FIELDS: I don't think it was tough. It was a lot of fun doing it. I enjoyed that. The British were great.

KING: getting over there, right.

FIELDS: Oh, yeah. I thought they would be resentful of an American taking on an English icon. They weren't at all. They were just terrific. I went to the College of Arms in Queen Victoria Street. I said, I'd like to look at William Shakespeare's application for a coat of arms. And they said, oh yeah, sure, bring down this box and set it in front of me, there the original documents and the guy says, will you excuse me. I have to go the men's room. And he's leaving me with these multi-billion dollar documents.

KING: Well, what do we know of the bard?

FIELDS: Well, we know, you got to separate the bard who wrote the poems and plays.

KING: And what do know of the man known as the bard?

FIELD: The Stratford guy?

KING: Yes, the Stratford guy.

FIELDS: He was born in '64, 1564. He went to the local grammar school we think. We don't think he finished.

KING: No biography of him?

FIELDS: Oh, there are dozens of biographies, but most of them talk about the guy who wrote the poems and plays and assume that it was the guy from Stratford. If you just look at what we know about the guy from Stratford, born in 1564, probably went to grammar school, got married because his wife was pregnant. She was eight years older than he was. After three years of marriage and three kids, left her, went to London for 12 years and went on the stage, became an actor. Then later in life went back to Stratford and did a lot of kind of petty selfish things. That's one of the problems you have is this guy didn't behave like the fellow who wrote those marvelous plays. He was very litigious. He sued people for a pound and 15 shillings. He hoarded grain so he could up the price at the time of great shortage. He just did all kinds of...

KING: Was he wealthy?

FIELDS: He was more wealthy than you would think an actor would be and yet if you look, there is no record of his ever being paid as a playwright.

KING: No.

FIELDS: No. He did plays for a guy named Henslow (ph) who kept meticulous records of every playwright he ever paid. There is not any record of this guy being paid.

KING: Then it's obvious, how did he get famous? How did he...

FIELDS: Well, it isn't obvious because no one will really ever be able to prove it, one way or another. T.S. Eliot said the best you could hope for in talking about Shakespeare is to be wrong in some new and different way, because you can never prove it. How did, why did this happen? It was not done for a nobleman or an aspiring politician like Francis Bacon.

KING: It wasn't Francis Bacon.

FIELDS: Well it could have been Francis Bacon. It could have been Oxford. It could have been Christopher Marlow. Some people say it was Queen Elizabeth. I don't think so. Wouldn't it be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to think so. A nobleman or an aspiring politician like Bacon could not write for the public theater. Public theater was disreputable, officially frowned upon.

KING: Low class.

FIELDS: Yeah, you couldn't do it. So a guy like Oxford would write plays for his friends, couldn't do it for the public theater, but if he could find a young, venal actor from Stratford who would pretend that these were his plays and pay him a little money to do this, that would be fine.

KING: And you investigate all this mysterious identity. How old was Shakespeare when he died?

FIELDS: He was 52. That was old in those days.

KING: He did not live a long life by today's... FIELDS: By today's standard no...

KING: Was he acclaimed in his time?

FIELDS: Oh yes and that's one of the curious things. By the time the Stratford guy died, William Shakespeare, the poet and playwright, was famous and yet when the Stratford guy died, there was no mention that the great Shakespeare had died. Why?

KING: Why?

FIELDS: Because maybe he wasn't the great Shakespeare. How could they not mention that he died? And yet there's nothing, not a word. When other authors died, there are huge, huge outpourings.

KING: Why didn't the person who was writing it, once the acclaim occurred, take credit?

FIELDS: Because it still wasn't done to write for the theater. If you're the Earl of Oxford, you don't want to be famous for writing for the theater.

KING: The Earl of Oxford doesn't want to be known as the guy who wrote "Hamlet."

FIELDS: That's right. He does not. He's doesn't mind if a couple of friends know. He likes that. That's good for his ego, but he can't publicly be known as the guy who writes for the theater. In the case of Christopher Marlowe, there's even a better reason. Christopher Marlowe was wanted. If they found the papers that were attributed to him and were heretical, were blasphemous, he was probably going to be burned at the stake and all of a sudden, he gets into a fight over a check in a restaurant (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and gets killed in this fight. He's with three buddies and all of sudden he's buried. They had a coroner's inquest. It's all covered up. Maybe Christopher Marlowe went to Italy and wrote Shakespeare, maybe.

KING: ...didn't die.

FIELDS: ... didn't die at all. That's one theory.

KING: We'll be right back with more of Bert Fields. The book is "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." We'll be right back with Bert Fields.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: His previous book was "Royal Blood," Richard III and the Mystery of the Princesses." It's the Richardian book of the year award from the Richardian Society. And now he brings this attorney's approach to history in "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare." His name is Bert Fields. He's renowned throughout the entertainment industry. Do you think it may have been two people?

FIELDS: I think it was two people. I think that the basic author, who was a man of enormous learning, widely traveled, a sense of great humanity and a sensitivity, wrote a first draft, maybe a second draft, turned the play over to the front, who was the guy from Stratford and I think the guy from Stratford, who know a lot about the stage. He was a great realist, would say, hey, boss. This don't play. We got to change the ending here in let's say "Merchant of Venice." He said, we're going to make fun of the Jew at the end. You can't just let this guy go and so they added that he has to convert to Christianity, Shylock. When Portia, who makes that great speech about the quality of mercy is not strained and then immediately after, she merciless to Shylock. I think that the Stratford guy added that at the end, the conversion because that would play. The audience loved it.

KING: How did Shakespeare handle his fame?

FIELDS: Well, if you're talking about the Stratford guy...

KING: The Stratford guy. You can him in the book, the Stratford guy.

FIELDS: Well, because if you don't, you get confused. Many people who have written books on the subject say, keep talking about the things that Shakespeare did and they assume they were done by the Stratford man. But...

KING: The Stratford man is the puppet here.

FIELDS: Well, that's the theory. The theory is...

KING: What theory?

FIELDS: Well, as I say, I can't prove it, no one will ever prove it. No one will ever prove the other. But it's just what I think is more logical than not and I think that he went around -- he applied for a coat of armed as I told you, because he wanted to be a gentleman. If you have a coat of arms, then you could be called gentleman and after that, he was William Shakespeare, gentleman and he had a model, not without right and Ben Johnson, who was very funny guy, put on a shoe in which he made fun of Shakespeare and he had a pompous guy to update a coat of arms with the motto not without mustard. And Shakespeare knew this was for him and I suspect he was somewhat upset.

KING: Did the Stratford guy marry?

FIELDS: The Stratford guy married very early in life. I think that's when he left his wife after three years of marriage and went on to live in London, came back to Stratford at the very end, not at the very end, a few years before the end and I guess went back to his wife.

KING: Stories that he might have been the real writer, gay?

FIELDS: Yes. I say yes, not that was definitely gay, but it's a real issue. If you read the sonnets, he's writing to a beautiful young man and he says you're the master, mistress of my passion. Can I compare thee to a summer's day, things like that, which is not -- I don't say that to you when we meet or at least they don't know about it. So many people believe he was gay. Oscar Wilde believed he was gay, but Oscar Wilde was gay.

KING: How great a writer was whoever wrote this?

FIELDS: Incredible. I think he's...

KING: No one in his league.

FIELDS: No one in his league. I think you take those plays and the more I read them, the more I thought, this guy is just amazing.

KING: And we use his language all the time and we're not even knowing it.

FIELDS: All the time.

KING: Shakespeare's quoted every day and in everyday language.

FIELDS: Every day. In court I use it all the time, all the time. There's a wonderful story about a southern trial lawyer who quotes from Shakespeare and says to the jury, the Bible say and he gives a quote from Shakespeare and his friend, who was visiting from New York said, hey, that's Shakespeare. That's not the Bible. And the trial lawyer said, listen, I know my juries and I'm not going to tell them it's Shakespeare.

KING: Do you have two lives Bert.

FIELDS: At least.

KING: You're a lawyer by day, writer by night.

FIELDS: Writer by night.

KING: How do -- with all your clients and as busy as you are, how do you get the time?

FIELDS: I do it mostly weekends, vacations and occasional trips to London to do the research. I just love it and it's a hobby.

KING: Working on another one?

FIELDS: I'm about to start.

KING: On?

FIELDS: Television interviewers.

KING: What fascinates you about Richard III, Shakespeare? Why?

FIELDS: Mysteries -- they're historical mysteries. Remember Richard III, there was a big mystery. Did he kill his nephews in the tower of London? Was he this hunchbacked withered guy and so I wanted to find out if he really was and I paced the tower of London, did all kinds of stuff like that. But solving the mystery is part of the fun. As far as why English, because it's my basic language and I would hate to try and do research in French, because my French really extends to French plumbing and eating.

KING: Is it true that the actors have said, you can never really play Shakespeare? I mean you can attempt to. You can't master it.

FIELDS: I think people can master it. What's interesting about it is the really great rolls have so much room for interpretation. You take a role like Shylock. We were talking before. I mean Shylock has been played all the way from a monster.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

FIELDS: hugely sympathetic guy and you can read all...

KING: The same language.

FIELDS: The same language, the same words, the same lines and everything but you can interpret those lines in different ways and that's what's great about Shakespeare.

KING: Bert, it's an honor having you with us.

FIELDS: A pleasure to be with you Larry.

KING: The book is "Players: The Mysterious Identity of William Shakespeare," written by one of the best lawyers there is, Bert Fields. It's published by Regan Books. More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE, Dr. Robert Singer, MD. He's the co-chairman of the editorial advisory board of a new publication, "New Beauty," I'm holding a copy in my hand. He's a board certified plastic surgeon and past president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. What are you doing being involved with a magazine. This comes out twice a year?

DR. ROBERT SINGER, MD, PLASTIC SURGEON: It comes out twice a share. The launch issue was in January and why did I get involved?

I've had a long history as well as the other co-chair, Dr. Simon Fredericks, on being involved in surgical education and organizations. We have been involved in educating plastic surgeons, educating the public, delivering safety, concepts of ethics. This was an opportunity for an extension of that career to carry that message effectively to the public.

The medical societies and organizations have a good message but they haven't been able to package it effectively to get the message to the consumer. This was a method to do that.

KING: So this is a book about things that happened to you in plastic surgery. I noticed this liposuction, smile makeovers, beauty products, sexy skin, all things that you would deal with, the nature of looking better.

SINGER: It's not only that. It's not just for the person who is going to have plastic surgery or wants plastic surgery. It's a comprehensive resource guide about beauty. It involves other specialties who deal with beauty. Dermatologists, dentists, facial plastic surgeons, otolaryngologists. What that does is it allows us to come out with an approach of scientific validity to deal with -- what about the person who doesn't want surgery? What about the person who wants some over the counter products? What about the person who is thinking about it? How do they select a surgeon?

So it's an informative guide rather than just a book about plastic surgery.

KING: Why only two issues a year? Seems like it would be a monthly.

SINGER: There is a lot of content and what differentiates this from all of the other publications out there are the articles are reviewed by two of the members of the scientific advisory or editorial board. For content validity, there is a lot of hype, there is a lot of spin and a lot of things out there that are being promoted that have no basis for safety and efficacy. These articles are reviewed. That takes a lot of work and a lot of ...

KING: So if you're writing about skin, two dermatologists have read that article?

SINGER: That's correct. If there is about plastic surgery, at least two plastic surgeons ...

KING: Because we're in a blind item here? From the public's standpoint. You see industrials and people talking about creams and do this for your face and magic elixirs. What do you do as the public?

SINGER: That's the reason for this. There is tremendous confusion. In the past the method that something came to the marketplace was someone had an idea scientifically. It went to the lab. It was worked on, developed. Once it was proven and then came to scientific presentation and meeting. Then it was incorporated and practiced, then it was brought to the public. Today, that whole world was different. What happens now is a manufacturer or marketeer gets an idea, they develop the idea, they immediately take it to the consumer or the marketplace or to the media. There may be no scientific validity. It may not even be shown to be safe as well as not work.

So this fills that gap of saying, OK, let's look at all these new developments and let's give the public the information. Is it safe? Does it work? Is it new? Does it have promise? Or is it just bogus?

KING: Where is it obtainable?

SINGER: It's obtainable through most of the bookstores across the country. It is also attainable through newbeauty.com, our Web site.

KING: Why did you choose plastic surgery? You wanted to be a doctor, right? So you have a lot of choices.

SINGER: I originally was going to be a cardiologist. My dad had a heart attack when I was a little kid. His cardiologist was a very nice gentlemen who gave me a book about it, I read about it, I wanted to become a physician. I wanted to do something worthwhile and to give back. I eventually went to Stanford to become a neurosurgeon. At Stanford, after rotating in neurosurgery and some of the other specialties I had an exposure to plastic surgery.

For me, it was a good blend. I'm detail-oriented. I felt it was creative, didn't have the same dogma. It wasn't locked into certain principles of other surgery. It made patients happy. You saw instantaneous results. And it was creative.

KING: So you discovered it in medical school?

SINGER: I discovered it in my residency and surgery.

KING: No kidding. And what makes someone good at it? What would you look for in a young, would be doctor?

SINGER: Well, you look at someone who is dedicated, somebody who is ethical ...

KING: Aesthetic?

SINGER: Well, somebody who has an aesthetic sense. Someone who is willing to put in the hard work to learn the core principles about physiology, anatomy, taking care of patients, and someone who is not self promotional, someone who ...

KING: Really? Because some of you are, you know.

SINGER: ... is willing to teach. Unfortunately that occurs in every profession in every area. I think the vast number of plastic surgeons. And I have been fortunate to meet plastic surgeons from all over the world. A vast number of plastic surgeons are dedicated, hard-working, they have spent years in training and they give back to their community.

KING: Why are they called plastic surgeons?

SINGER: Most commonly asked question. It comes from the Greek word plastikos, which means to move, and that is essentially what we are doing. We are moving tissue. We are shifting it. It is the number of cases you use as synthetic material and are a small percentage. So it comes from the concept of moving the tissue.

KING: The field was invented before plastics, in a sense. Plastics is a common phenomenon of the '40s, I think.

SINGER: The field goes back to ancient Indian and ancient Egyptian history. Reconstruction of facial deformities existed then. So it's centuries old.

KING: You magazine comes out twice a year. You can get it at newbeauty.com, right? Or at book stores, magazine stores, it's "New Beauty." The guest is Dr. Robert Singer and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: The concept of "New Beauty" deals with five editorial sections, skin, face, smile, body, mind. That's in every issue. Those five.

SINGER: Every issue.

KING: There were articles about them?

SINGER: Yes.

KING: There's advertising, too, I would assume?

SINGER: There is advertising.

KING: Is the ads carefully monitored?

SINGER: Ah, yes. Not only are the articles looked at for scientific validity, but the articles are looked at to make sure that they are ethical in their statements. That the individuals have the credentials as are stated and that they are marked as ads.

KING: Why is the field so popular?

SINGER: We're a society that is interested in self-improvement. Plastic surgery is not a new phenomenon. If you look through centuries, there has always been an interest in self-improvement, skincare...

KING: But it used to be you denied you went. Now people talk about it.

SINGER: Right. We're a much more open society, so those aspects of self-improvement are talked about. The media has covered it extensively. The frequency of surgery is increasing, but there is a lot of reasons. Better, more natural results, less invasive procedures, safer procedures, better-trained surgeons. We live in a competitive society with business and anything that gives us that edge of making us feel better about ourselves may be an advantage. Plastic surgery isn't for everyone, but it's an option.

KING: More men involved?

SINGER: An increasing number of men and women in the last year the American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery statistics said that there were almost 12 million surgical and non-surgical cosmetic enhancement procedures done. About 10 percent of it males, but increasing in both males and females.

KING: You were not interested in reconstructive surgeries? Treating an accident victim?

SINGER: I do a lot of reconstruction.

KING: Because aesthetics we think of is only for looking better.

SINGER: The best trained aesthetic surgeons are those that have a good background in reconstructive. The best reconstructive surgeons have an aesthetic sense. They go hand in hand. You can't really separate them. The principles remain the same. The core training of a real plastic surgeon who is board-certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery is usually a minimum of four years in general surgery, then additional -- that's after medical school. And additional two years of supervised training with increased responsibility in a plastic surgery residency.

Then they can take the examination for the American Board of Plastic Surgery. I was fortunate -- I was asked to help administer that exam to the applicants. The individuals are examined in reconstruction, they are examined in cosmetic or aesthetic. They are examined in judgment, selection of patients. They are examined in ethics. So there is a lot involved to be a real board-certified plastic surgeon.

KING: Do you know, Dr. Singer, how it is going to come out?

SINGER: How what is going to come out?

KING: How the new face is going to look? Do you know when you're doing it how it is going to come out?

SINGER: I think with a lot of experience you have an idea of the direction you want to go but part of that is the discussion with the patient. What is the patient looking for? What is realistic? What's not realistic? That's part of the good education of a well-trained surgeon and communicating that to the patient.

KING: Not miracles.

SINGER: There is no miracles. There is certain genetic aspects, inherited cheeks people have.

KING: High cheekbones are high cheekbones.

SINGER: You can't create a total different person. Nor do most people want that. They want to look natural. They want to look improved.

People ask, well, could you do this? And bring a photo. And I say, when I can walk on water I can do that, and I am never going to be able to walk on water.

KING: Botox and its increasing popularity. Why?

SINGER: Quick. Reproducible in most people's hands as far as the results. Temporary, so it has no permanent problems. Cost- effective. And you basically, if it is administered well, looks very natural. In and out procedure.

KING: But if it is not administered well it looks like you are staring. There is no frown. SINGER: Correct, but most people want to look natural and I think that's part of the evolution and the advancement of knowing there are different techniques to get good results.

KING: What's it like to run a magazine? Co-chairman of the editorial advisory board. That's apart from your field. That's not a scalpel.

SINGER: Well, I'm not the publisher.

KING: You're not the editor.

SINGER: Nor the publisher, and that's Adam Sandow from Sandow Media. But it's labor intensive. It takes a lot of time, a lot of effort. We have surrounded ourselves with good people on the editorial advisory board.

KING: Where are you published?

SINGER: It's published in Florida.

KING: Out of Florida. Is that where you practice?

SINGER: No. I practice in La Jolla, California.

KING: Oh, down the road.

SINGER: Just down the road.

KING: Not a bad place.

SINGER: Somebody has to live there.

KING: Are most plastic surgeons referred? Do they get their patients through referral?

SINGER: I think it depends on the type of practice and each individual. Many of us have as a basis of our practice patient to patient referrals. There are an increasing number of people who advertise because the marketplace is ...

KING: Do you?

SINGER: I don't personally. I have good friends and respected colleagues who do. I have nothing -- I am not opposed to advertising as long as it is ethical, as long as it doesn't create expectations beyond what can be delivered. As long as credentials are honest. But remember, only the ethical are encumbered by ethics.

KING: Is there a most difficult area of the face to work? Is a nose harder than the eyes?

SINGER: It depends on what your experiences are. If you do something frequently, if you are well-trained in it, it doesn't become a difficult area. If you take a weekend course in a motel and you have no background in formal plastic surgery training, and unfortunately, there are more and more people coming into plastic surgery who have poor training or no training, then it is going to be very hard for them, but for a well-trained surgeon, those areas, those are the things they go through in training.

KING: Next time we do a big panel on this we're going to have you come back. Thank you, doctor.

SINGER: It's a pleasure, thank you.

KING: The magazine is "New Beauty, the Ultimate Cosmetic Enhancement Guide." The guest, Dr. Robert Singer, co-chairman of the editorial advisory board, past president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome Ernestine Bradley to LARRY KING LIVE. Naturalized United States citizen, wife of the former Democratic presidential candidate Bill Bradley, the great basketball star. She once had breast cancer, hopefully that's all fine, and she's the author of a remarkable new memoir, "The Way Home, a German Childhood, an American Life."

What did you mean, Ernestine, by "The Way Home"?

ERNESTINE BRADLEY, AUTHOR, "THE WAY HOME": By "The Way Home" it's a little bit complicated because obviously coming from a different country, you uproot and then you come over here and you try to put your roots down and then this is a very flexible society so geographically, of course, I am from the Northeast but I have come to the conclusion as I was writing this book that I am really at home, or I hope I am at home, in the hearts of those that I love and I know that they are at home in my heart.

KING: What led to writing it?

BRADLEY: Well, you know, I had started out during Bill's campaign for the presidential Democratic nomination and there was a town archivist who thought he knew more about my parents and whose daughter I was than I. And I was a little upset and I felt I really had to go into the details and find out who my father was even though I thought I knew who he was and then as I did that research I also really felt that this is something I want my grandchildren to have, that when they are grown up and I am no longer here, they should know from my part of the family where they come from.

And then as I started to write, a lot of people said, oh my goodness, you know, this is something you may like to share, like my breast cancer experience or the immigrant experience or being married and still trying to hang on to a profession. So after a while I felt, yes, but for me maybe even more important was the thing that I wanted to communicate that people should have the courage to pursue a dream and the courage to find their limitations and I think I've found my limitations.

KING: How old were you when you came to the United States? BRADLEY: When I came to the United States I was 21, so I knew what I was doing, I followed the American Dream, it was a little bit after the post war period, I came in '57 and, of course, America was the country that the whole world wanted to go to and I was very lucky because I had studied and I had knew several languages and at that time Pan-Am was looking for stewardesses who spoke several languages because they started the overseas flights and here I was, and I was accepted.

KING: Do you have memories of swastikas?

BRADLEY: Yes. Swastikas I definitely have memories of and -- but it's very tricky because I have also seen so many pictures that always have swastikas in them, but I do know, for example, in 1945 when women would take the red flags with the white circle and the black swastika and they would pull them apart and make skirts out of the red material and blouses out of the white because there were no clothes to be had. So in a sense it is a sacrilege to do that with the flag, but it was not a sacrilege to do it with that flag, I think.

KING: Did you bear any -- What were your feelings toward American troops coming in?

BRADLEY: Well, oh my goodness, Larry, if I could spend a little time on that, I was 10 years old and my mother had decided that the city was too dangerous so we stayed out in the country and there one day maybe April, maybe May of 1945 and there came the American combat troops and it was such an overwhelming impression. They were not what you would imagine victorious armies to be. They were not jubilant, they were not glorious, they were tired, exhausted, they were dusted, they did not march, they sort of walked and talked with each other.

But, and this is what really, really impressed me. It was endless. Now I would think it went on for hours and hours, I don't really know. But to me it became a sense of now glamour but overwhelming powerfulness and that has stayed with me really for the rest of my life.

KING: What did your dad do?

BRADLEY: My father -- My biological father, I should say. He was in the air force. He was ground personnel, adjutant? I don't know ...

KING: Adjutant.

BRADLEY: Yes, exactly. And he was mostly stationed in France and in Italy. And at the end of the war he was taken prisoner in North Germany by the British and escaped and this of course became part of the family mythology until I got so tired of it. Because he would always talk about how he fled the camp and made his way back down to Bavaria, where he was from, disguised as a farmer with, I don't know, a pipe in his mouth and on a bicycle, because he wanted to go to a prisoner of war camp in his home town, thinking that would be better, and it was the American occupation zone.

It would be much better, he wanted to be close to his family, to his mother and my brother and me.

KING: Was America all you thought it would be?

BRADLEY: When I came over, oh, it was so much more because I really -- I remember soon, maybe in '49, 1950 a couple came and visited in America, and said, can you believe in New York there is a restaurant on every block and their skyscrapers are bigger than their churches. And, of course, for me this was totally incredible. So when I came it was like walking into a dream, not having a dream become reality, but suddenly you are in the dream and all the things you had not even quite imagined were true and even better.

KING: A couple of other things. We want to have you come back and talk more on this. Do a panel on this. This extraordinary book, how are you doing? You had the breast cancer 15 years ago, you had a mastectomy, chemotherapy, are you OK?

BRADLEY: Exactly. You know, yes. People say sometimes, oh, you're in remission. And I say, no, no, God forbid I would have a different cancer, but it would be a different cancer, it would not be remission and I have been fine and I have been grateful every day.

KING: You were a delight in the campaign. You are more delightful now. A pleasure having you with us. And a great book, I congratulate you.

BRADLEY: Thank you, Larry, thank you so much.

KING: Ernestine Bradley, "The Way Home, a German Childhood, an American Life." And a terrific read. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Thanks for joining us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. We'll be back again tomorrow night. Stay tuned for more news around the clock on your most trusted name in news, CNN. Good night.

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