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American Morning
New Pope: The World Waits; Remembering Oklahoma City Bombing; Michael Jackson Trial
Aired April 18, 2005 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: At this hour in the Vatican, the cardinals of the Catholic Church about to make a historic decision. Their secret conclave to elect the next pope begins in less than two hours. The future of the church at a crossroads on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Miles O'Brien is with us this morning because Bill Hemmer is in Oklahoma City. He is covering the 10-year anniversary of the bombing of the Murrah ederal Building. We're going to talk to him in just a few moments.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, did you hear that story about A-Rod?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's a good story.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Saved the kid from getting run over in that traffic in Boston last week. It's really the highlight of the Yankees season so far. This morning we're going to sit down with 8-year-old Patrick McCarthy and find out what A-Rod did to save him and what he thinks of his hero now -- very high on the scale.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, one would imagine. Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: At least a 10. At least a 10, maybe an 11.
S. O'BRIEN: Cute kid, isn't he?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
In the wake of the school shootings in Red Lake, Minnesota, several schools are now offering money to students who turn in other students. Up to $500 for reporting a student with a gun. Good idea or not? AM@CNN.com.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thanks.
Let's get right to the headlines and Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. And good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," convicted sex offender David Onstott arriving in court just a short time ago. He's accused of first degree murder in the killing of 13-year-old Sarah Lunde. Officials are reviewing more possible charges.
Investigators found Lunde's partially-clothed body on Saturday in an abandoned fish pond near her home. A medical examiner is trying to determine the official cause of death.
Irreversible, that's how the leaders of India and Pakistan are calling their peace process. The nuclear neighbors wrapped up three days of meetings in New Delhi. They apparently discussed a wide range of issues.
In a joint statement, they called for increased trade and cross- border travel. The two leaders also vow to continue talks on the disputed region of Kashmir.
Today, the National Rifle Association is expected to elect a woman to lead the group. Sandra Froman will be the second woman to head up the NRA. Froman plans to use the position to emphasize women's issues, especially self-defense.
And will he or won't he? After months of speculation, Lance Armstrong is expected to settle questions today on whether he will retire after this summer's Tour de France. Armstrong has recently said he missed his kids and the pressure was taking a toll on him.
He also wants to do more for cancer awareness, being a cancer survivor himself. And, of course, that's there relationship, Miles, with Sheryl Crow.
S. O'BRIEN: Wanted a little more time for that.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. It's a long and winding road, you know, as they say. All right.
Well, less than two hours from now, 115 Roman Catholic cardinals head to the Sistine Chapel, and they won't be seen again until they've chosen a new pope. Their decision will determine the future of the Catholic Church.
Alessio Vinci live in Vatican City.
Alessio, what is the scene? Tell us what's going on there.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Miles.
Well, we understand that the cardinals at this time are resting inside the Santa Marta hotel-like building, if you want, inside the Vatican. That is where they're going to spend most of their time in the coming days, when they're not inside the Sistine Chapel voting for their successor, who is expected to be among the 115 cardinals who will participate in that vote.
They had a lunch earlier today. And then this morning, before going into the Santa Marta, they actually participated in a mass known as the mass for the election of the supreme pontiff, which is a mass during which cardinals pray for spiritual guidance. Catholics, of course, believe that the Holy Spirit influences the cardinals when they make their vote, and not just obviously the church politics.
The mass was presided over by Cardinal Ratzinger, who is the dean of the College of Cardinals, also being noted as, by many observers here, as a possible, if not successor to John Paul II. Certainly a powerful figure in the election process, a man who can actually swing votes towards the more conservative stance.
And, indeed, during his homily, he delivered a blunt speech, during which he repeated his conservative stance, calling on cardinals to be true adults in their faith at a time when the Catholics have called on the church to be perhaps more open and liberals towards issues such as gay marriage and birth control. So the cardinal there making a last appeal to the conservative base in the College of Cardinals.
Nevertheless, some observers here already mentioned the fact that that speech could backfire towards those who perhaps want a pope who is more liberal -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Alessio, tradition ever so important in every respect here. And, of course, the smoke is the thing we'll be looking for, the puff of smoke, whether it's black or white.
Twenty-six years ago, there was some confusion when the smoke went through the chimney. It was kind of gray and no one knew what it meant. It turns out it was supposed to be white smoke.
This time they're making it journalist-proof, aren't they?
VINCI: They are, Miles. Let me take you on a tour of the square here behind me.
We're going to start -- these are some of the pilgrims who are still lining up to get into the St. Peter's Basilica, because, of course, the body of the pope is still -- is buried in the grotto there. So they're still lining up there to go inside.
But as you can see, just there on the top right side of your screen, as the camera is panning up, that's the Sistine Chapel. And you see a chimney there. That is where the smoke is expected to come out. It will be black smoke for no mope, or white smoke if the cardinals have selected their leader. Now, to avoid any confusion, as you said, for the first time the great bells of St. Peter's Square will toll to announce the election of a new pontiff. There are six of them, and the largest one -- you can see it here on your screen -- is known as the camponone (ph), which is, you know, a big bell, if you want.
It's more than 200 years ago, weighs 20,000 pounds, over 9,000 kilos, and is about eight feet wide. And once the pope, of course, is selected, once we're going to know and we're going to hear the bells and see the white smoke, then eventually the senior cardinal deacon will appear from the balcony of -- from this balcony, in the central part of the basilica, where you see red drapes already being ready. There we're going to see the cardinal announcing in Latin, "Habemus papam," "We have a new pope."
And then shortly afterwards, we, of course, are going to see the new pope emerging from that window, telling -- delivering his first blessing to the people of Rome and to the people around the world, known at the Urbi et Orbi.
Back to you, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. It may be the 21st century, but it's still a chimney, a bell and a balcony. All right. Alessio Vinci, thank you very much, live there from Vatican City -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: A battered Norwegian cruise liner is pulling into New York Harbor this morning after a rough weekend at sea. A seven- story wave smashed into the ship early on Saturday morning. The waves broke windows, flooded cabins, and forced the cruise liner to stop in Charleston, South Carolina, for repairs.
Some passengers got off the ship there describing their experience at just pure hell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES FRALEY, PASSENGER: There was tables ripped out of the sheet rock. They were sheet-rocked to the wall. They were ripped out.
Ceramic tiles broken, big screen TVs in bars that were -- that had -- that fell out of the wall, I guess from the seven-foot wave that made the contact around 6:00 in the morning,. Two Jacuzzis vanished there in the Atlantic Ocean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: The cruise line says each passenger got a refund of half the trip's cost and a 50 percent discount voucher for future travel. Some passengers, though, said they have heard nothing from the cruise liner.
A grim anniversary in Oklahoma City this week. Tomorrow marking 10 years since the bombing that killed 168 people at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City for the official remembrance this morning.
Hey, Bill. Good morning again.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Soledad, good morning again from Oklahoma City.
This is the spot, the location where the federal building stood 10 years ago today. It is absolutely stunning to come to this memorial.
All these chairs in this field represent each of the 168 people who were killed. They're lined up in nine different rows that represent the nine floors in that building. And each chair is made of bronze and granite and glass, which is the same components that comprised the federal building.
The glass base here is different on any every one of these chairs that represent how symbolically we, as human beings, are all different, too. And the size is different. These chairs are larger than, say, the chairs down here.
The shorter chairs represent the lives of the children. Nineteen in that day care center that day in early April.
And over here, where they've planted this evergreen tree, that's the exact location where the Ryder truck was parked on April 19, 1995, detonated at 9:02 a.m. that morning.
This is considered hollow ground and sacred ground for so many people here in Oklahoma. And it has truly become a place where they can grieve, and the healing process can continue, even 10 years later.
The other thing I think is important about this component to the story, Soledad -- and again, we'll talk about this a lot tomorrow, when the anniversary and the celebration here and the memorial service gets under way. But it's the fact that Oklahoma City was not stopped that day. In fact, they take an awful lot of pride in the fact that their town has been reborn.
There's a new stadium built here; a new arena has been built downtown. Property values have gone through the roof.
There's an area town known as Brick Town. There are numerous bars and restaurants established.
And it's that pride of Oklahoma that so many people point to, saying, "We is it not stop that day in April of 1995, but look what we have done in the past 10 years since." They take an awful lot of pride in knowing that their town has moved forward and moved forward with such great pride -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: So there's obviously been development, but I'm curious to know, Bill, after 10 years, would you say that time has allowed the people emotionally to heal? HEMMER: A good question. A lot of people will say yes to that answer, but a lot of people, too, will surprise you and say, actually, it gets harder as the time goes by.
And part of that process, too, they're opening a new exhibit this year. In fact, it will open tomorrow for the survivors. And they're giving out blue handbands called "Change Forever, Forever Changing."
And the reason why they think this is so critical, is that they have found through the healing process is that the survivors need so much help and so much support. So they want to show people how their lives have changed over the past 10 years and how they've made productive lives coming out of that day of destruction coming back in April of 1995.
S. O'BRIEN: Much more to tell us about this morning coming out of Oklahoma City. Bill, thanks. We'll check in with you again.
Well, tonight, Aaron Brown hosts a "NEWSNIGHT" special. "Day of Terror," it's called, on the eve of the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. That's tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
And be sure to join us tomorrow for full coverage of the tenth anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. Bill's going to report for us live from Oklahoma City -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Here at home, testimony resumes this morning in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial, with the mother of Jackson's accuser facing another day of cross-examination.
More from CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More fireworks are expected when the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial, who covers herself from the cameras, resumes her courtroom battle with Jackson's lawyer, Thomas Mesereau. During her three days on the stand, the mother has lost her composure, spoken out of turn, and has been told by the judge to change her behavior.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, LEGAL ANALYST: The more she talks, the worse it gets for the prosecution. My heart goes out to the prosecution, because there's really nothing they can do with a witness like that. They've obviously prepared her, but now she truly is a loose cannon on that witness stand.
ROWLANDS: The mother has provided some potentially damaging testimony against Jackson, saying her son told her Jackson gave him wine at Neverland Ranch, and claiming that Jackson and his associates kept her family at the ranch against their will.
She also said her family was followed when they left Neverland, a claim that seemed to be backed up by seized surveillance videotapes shown in court. But some courtroom observers say some of the mother's claims seem to be exaggerated or untrue. JIM MORET, JACKSON POOL REPORTER: So much of what she said seemed so outrageous, so unbelievable.
ROWLANDS: At one point while testifying, the mother baited Michael Jackson to take the stand. She also pointed at him and called him a "Goliath." The judge struck that and other comments she made, including the statement that, "Neverland is all about booze, pornography, and sex with boys," something she blurted out while answering an unrelated question.
Michael Jackson shook his head back and forth while listening in court. Walking out, he seemed to be pleased, nodding his head to finish his sentence.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: It's going well.
ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: The Michael Jackson trial now entering its eighth week -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: A look at the weather this morning. Chad Myers at the CNN Center. He's got the latest forecast for us.
And, by all accounts, it looks pretty good today, Chad. Good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: We love the way that sounds.
M. O'BRIEN: Nice.
S. O'BRIEN: You love it when the weather guy says "Just beautiful."
M. O'BRIEN: Good flying weather. That's good.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Very nice.
M. O'BRIEN: All right.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Chad.
M. O'BRIEN: A war of words between economic superpowers. Long, simmering anger boils over the streets of Hong Kong. A look at the reasons for rising tension between China and Japan.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, an American sacrificed a half world away. Remembering the young woman who gave her life to help innocent victims of war.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: A second round of anti-Japanese protests in China. Thousands of Chinese took to the streets this weekend. Rioters threw stones and eggs at the Japanese consulate, injured two Japanese citizens.
The tension stems from Japan's bid to become a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. China also says Japan is white-washing its war-time atrocities in a new textbook.
Today, Japanese officials say they're disappointed China has refused to apologize for the violent protests. So how could this conflict affect the trade relationship between Asia's two largest economies?
CNN U.N. correspondent Richard Roth joining us now.
Richard, this is a complicated long story. Why don't you try to break this down. What is -- what are the main points of contention?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's history and the future. China has never gotten over the invasion and occupation of its land in the early '30s, brutal occupation by Japanese forces. And Japan says that, you know, Japan is not ready to do what China wants, which is to formally in a written pledge apologize for what's happened.
And the future, as you mentioned, the Security Council at the U.N. Fifteen seats, but they want to give new permanent chairs to countries. China does not want Japan to get a new permanent seat. I think it would still like to be the top dog in Asia.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, I mean, could China effectively veto that possibility?
ROTH: Yes, it could. But this is a key part of all this U.N. reform effort. So there's going to have to be a lot of persuasion, maybe some more written apologies from Japan.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about what we saw over the weekend on the street. I mean, in some cases, those can reflect a very small group of people, causing a lot of, you know, media attention. Does this reflect widespread disillusionment?
ROTH: Right this is -- yes, there is a lot of anger in China. But the Chinese government, they have a problem.
It could whip these demonstrations up, which it is doing, but also trying to keep a rein on it. You may remember Tiananmen Square.
These are the largest series of demonstrations since 1989 and Tiananmen Square. The government, through message boards, the Internet, is bringing people out into the streets. But then it is also saying to some of the leaders of the demonstration, don't come out this weekend. It's been going on for three weekends.
M. O'BRIEN: Boy, interesting once you let that genie out of the bottle. When you start encouraging those sorts of people to use the Internet, for example, to protest, where does that lead?
ROTH: And then what's happening in Japan, also. Japan wants an apology -- a very big week for apologies. Japan wants an apology for the damage done to its consulates and embassies in China, and the Chinese foreign minister yesterday refused to do so, saying Japan has hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
M. O'BRIEN: It sounds almost, you know, like divorce proceedings. Irreconcilable differences come to mind here. What could mediate this kind of thing?
ROTH: Well, there's an international conference in Indonesia this week. The leaders of the two countries may get together.
Sometimes these things get a little worse before they get better. But there's a lot of tensions underneath that have been boiling for years. And Japan is also trying to flex its diplomatic muscles. It's not always turning the other cheek as it has in other crises.
M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you one other question here. As China's economy really takes off, and Japan's kind of stays flat, is that also part of the simmering tension there?
ROTH: It's economics, it's military. For U.S. interests, it's important to note that both countries have been building up their military. The economic interests, of course, huge. The China economy has grown to a point that Japan, of course, sees it as a natural rival.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, especially for oil. Don't you think?
ROTH: That's right. And they're disputing right now the east China sea islands. Japan, against the wishes of China, drilling for oil there.
So you've got -- another issue we should point out, textbooks. China says that Japan has glossed over the war-time atrocities in China. And there is a trend. In recent government-sponsored textbooks, they wipe away the abuses of women and other -- and germ warfare in the past.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And if you throw in what's going on, on the Korean peninsula, and this whole mix, it really makes for a potentially destabilizing time in the Pacific Rim.
ROTH: And some say the Bush administration, because it's been occupied with Iraq, 9/11, and Afghanistan, has had to take its eye off the ball off Asia, and that in the future is where the real trouble should be watched for.
M. O'BRIEN: So should the U.S. be more engaged, do you think, right now?
ROTH: Well, the U.S. has talked about having more talks with the Chinese government on a more regular basis, which hasn't occurred before. So they're trying to get a little bit more involved, and are certainly watching this dispute closely.
M. O'BRIEN: Our U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, who can boil it all down well for us. We appreciate it. All right -- Soledad.
ROTH: Thanks.
S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, 10 years after the tragedy, survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing remember the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt and heard just a tremendous roaring noise in my head. And everything went black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: An emotional journey back to that fateful day w the people who lived through it.
Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: To snitch or not to snitch, that is the question.
CAFFERTY: That is the question, yes.
A growing number of public schools are starting something called snitch programs. Students paid to tattle on other students 100 bucks for tips on theft or drugs, up to $500 for tips on guns.
According to "USA Today," some schools have had these things around since the '80s. But last month's school shooting in Red Lake, Minnesota, has generated renewed interest.
The question is, should students be paid to tell on their classmates?
M. writes, "Please stop calling it snitching and tattling. You become part of the problem by doing that. How about calling it civil or moral responsibility?"
Or we could call it tuna sandwiches.
James in Missouri writes, "Sure, go ahead, pay the little rats. Then put them in witness protection programs before you find their bodies in the bottom of some lake. The little punks they'll be ratting out are surely going to be gang members, and retaliation will be inevitable. I don't think asking kids to do the country's police work is the answer." John in Pennsylvania writes, "The money would be better spent on including an ethics class for the students so they understand their possibility to society and to their fellow students."
And Mark in Michigan writes, "When I was in high school back in the dark ages, the brothers and priests that ran the school used nothing but positive encouragement to obtain information. If you didn't say everything you knew, they would positively beat the crap out of you. Discipline does have its positive benefits."
S. O'BRIEN: You can't do that anymore.
M. O'BRIEN: It reminds me of Sister Grace Edwards, wrapping with -- you know, the ruler on the knuckles things. Yes.
CAFFERTY: Did it have a desired effect on you, Miles?
S. O'BRIEN: Did it work?
CAFFERTY: Absolutely. I told the truth about all things, immediately. And if not, I came up with a good story.
CAFFERTY: There you go.
M. O'BRIEN: Anyway, in an age of high-tech instant communication, the world will watch smoke signals to find out when the next pope is selected. Inside the rituals and traditions of the papal conclave ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 18, 2005 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: At this hour in the Vatican, the cardinals of the Catholic Church about to make a historic decision. Their secret conclave to elect the next pope begins in less than two hours. The future of the church at a crossroads on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Miles O'Brien is with us this morning because Bill Hemmer is in Oklahoma City. He is covering the 10-year anniversary of the bombing of the Murrah ederal Building. We're going to talk to him in just a few moments.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, did you hear that story about A-Rod?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's a good story.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Saved the kid from getting run over in that traffic in Boston last week. It's really the highlight of the Yankees season so far. This morning we're going to sit down with 8-year-old Patrick McCarthy and find out what A-Rod did to save him and what he thinks of his hero now -- very high on the scale.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, one would imagine. Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: At least a 10. At least a 10, maybe an 11.
S. O'BRIEN: Cute kid, isn't he?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
In the wake of the school shootings in Red Lake, Minnesota, several schools are now offering money to students who turn in other students. Up to $500 for reporting a student with a gun. Good idea or not? AM@CNN.com.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thanks.
Let's get right to the headlines and Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. And good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," convicted sex offender David Onstott arriving in court just a short time ago. He's accused of first degree murder in the killing of 13-year-old Sarah Lunde. Officials are reviewing more possible charges.
Investigators found Lunde's partially-clothed body on Saturday in an abandoned fish pond near her home. A medical examiner is trying to determine the official cause of death.
Irreversible, that's how the leaders of India and Pakistan are calling their peace process. The nuclear neighbors wrapped up three days of meetings in New Delhi. They apparently discussed a wide range of issues.
In a joint statement, they called for increased trade and cross- border travel. The two leaders also vow to continue talks on the disputed region of Kashmir.
Today, the National Rifle Association is expected to elect a woman to lead the group. Sandra Froman will be the second woman to head up the NRA. Froman plans to use the position to emphasize women's issues, especially self-defense.
And will he or won't he? After months of speculation, Lance Armstrong is expected to settle questions today on whether he will retire after this summer's Tour de France. Armstrong has recently said he missed his kids and the pressure was taking a toll on him.
He also wants to do more for cancer awareness, being a cancer survivor himself. And, of course, that's there relationship, Miles, with Sheryl Crow.
S. O'BRIEN: Wanted a little more time for that.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. It's a long and winding road, you know, as they say. All right.
Well, less than two hours from now, 115 Roman Catholic cardinals head to the Sistine Chapel, and they won't be seen again until they've chosen a new pope. Their decision will determine the future of the Catholic Church.
Alessio Vinci live in Vatican City.
Alessio, what is the scene? Tell us what's going on there.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Miles.
Well, we understand that the cardinals at this time are resting inside the Santa Marta hotel-like building, if you want, inside the Vatican. That is where they're going to spend most of their time in the coming days, when they're not inside the Sistine Chapel voting for their successor, who is expected to be among the 115 cardinals who will participate in that vote.
They had a lunch earlier today. And then this morning, before going into the Santa Marta, they actually participated in a mass known as the mass for the election of the supreme pontiff, which is a mass during which cardinals pray for spiritual guidance. Catholics, of course, believe that the Holy Spirit influences the cardinals when they make their vote, and not just obviously the church politics.
The mass was presided over by Cardinal Ratzinger, who is the dean of the College of Cardinals, also being noted as, by many observers here, as a possible, if not successor to John Paul II. Certainly a powerful figure in the election process, a man who can actually swing votes towards the more conservative stance.
And, indeed, during his homily, he delivered a blunt speech, during which he repeated his conservative stance, calling on cardinals to be true adults in their faith at a time when the Catholics have called on the church to be perhaps more open and liberals towards issues such as gay marriage and birth control. So the cardinal there making a last appeal to the conservative base in the College of Cardinals.
Nevertheless, some observers here already mentioned the fact that that speech could backfire towards those who perhaps want a pope who is more liberal -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Alessio, tradition ever so important in every respect here. And, of course, the smoke is the thing we'll be looking for, the puff of smoke, whether it's black or white.
Twenty-six years ago, there was some confusion when the smoke went through the chimney. It was kind of gray and no one knew what it meant. It turns out it was supposed to be white smoke.
This time they're making it journalist-proof, aren't they?
VINCI: They are, Miles. Let me take you on a tour of the square here behind me.
We're going to start -- these are some of the pilgrims who are still lining up to get into the St. Peter's Basilica, because, of course, the body of the pope is still -- is buried in the grotto there. So they're still lining up there to go inside.
But as you can see, just there on the top right side of your screen, as the camera is panning up, that's the Sistine Chapel. And you see a chimney there. That is where the smoke is expected to come out. It will be black smoke for no mope, or white smoke if the cardinals have selected their leader. Now, to avoid any confusion, as you said, for the first time the great bells of St. Peter's Square will toll to announce the election of a new pontiff. There are six of them, and the largest one -- you can see it here on your screen -- is known as the camponone (ph), which is, you know, a big bell, if you want.
It's more than 200 years ago, weighs 20,000 pounds, over 9,000 kilos, and is about eight feet wide. And once the pope, of course, is selected, once we're going to know and we're going to hear the bells and see the white smoke, then eventually the senior cardinal deacon will appear from the balcony of -- from this balcony, in the central part of the basilica, where you see red drapes already being ready. There we're going to see the cardinal announcing in Latin, "Habemus papam," "We have a new pope."
And then shortly afterwards, we, of course, are going to see the new pope emerging from that window, telling -- delivering his first blessing to the people of Rome and to the people around the world, known at the Urbi et Orbi.
Back to you, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. It may be the 21st century, but it's still a chimney, a bell and a balcony. All right. Alessio Vinci, thank you very much, live there from Vatican City -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: A battered Norwegian cruise liner is pulling into New York Harbor this morning after a rough weekend at sea. A seven- story wave smashed into the ship early on Saturday morning. The waves broke windows, flooded cabins, and forced the cruise liner to stop in Charleston, South Carolina, for repairs.
Some passengers got off the ship there describing their experience at just pure hell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES FRALEY, PASSENGER: There was tables ripped out of the sheet rock. They were sheet-rocked to the wall. They were ripped out.
Ceramic tiles broken, big screen TVs in bars that were -- that had -- that fell out of the wall, I guess from the seven-foot wave that made the contact around 6:00 in the morning,. Two Jacuzzis vanished there in the Atlantic Ocean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: The cruise line says each passenger got a refund of half the trip's cost and a 50 percent discount voucher for future travel. Some passengers, though, said they have heard nothing from the cruise liner.
A grim anniversary in Oklahoma City this week. Tomorrow marking 10 years since the bombing that killed 168 people at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City for the official remembrance this morning.
Hey, Bill. Good morning again.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Soledad, good morning again from Oklahoma City.
This is the spot, the location where the federal building stood 10 years ago today. It is absolutely stunning to come to this memorial.
All these chairs in this field represent each of the 168 people who were killed. They're lined up in nine different rows that represent the nine floors in that building. And each chair is made of bronze and granite and glass, which is the same components that comprised the federal building.
The glass base here is different on any every one of these chairs that represent how symbolically we, as human beings, are all different, too. And the size is different. These chairs are larger than, say, the chairs down here.
The shorter chairs represent the lives of the children. Nineteen in that day care center that day in early April.
And over here, where they've planted this evergreen tree, that's the exact location where the Ryder truck was parked on April 19, 1995, detonated at 9:02 a.m. that morning.
This is considered hollow ground and sacred ground for so many people here in Oklahoma. And it has truly become a place where they can grieve, and the healing process can continue, even 10 years later.
The other thing I think is important about this component to the story, Soledad -- and again, we'll talk about this a lot tomorrow, when the anniversary and the celebration here and the memorial service gets under way. But it's the fact that Oklahoma City was not stopped that day. In fact, they take an awful lot of pride in the fact that their town has been reborn.
There's a new stadium built here; a new arena has been built downtown. Property values have gone through the roof.
There's an area town known as Brick Town. There are numerous bars and restaurants established.
And it's that pride of Oklahoma that so many people point to, saying, "We is it not stop that day in April of 1995, but look what we have done in the past 10 years since." They take an awful lot of pride in knowing that their town has moved forward and moved forward with such great pride -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: So there's obviously been development, but I'm curious to know, Bill, after 10 years, would you say that time has allowed the people emotionally to heal? HEMMER: A good question. A lot of people will say yes to that answer, but a lot of people, too, will surprise you and say, actually, it gets harder as the time goes by.
And part of that process, too, they're opening a new exhibit this year. In fact, it will open tomorrow for the survivors. And they're giving out blue handbands called "Change Forever, Forever Changing."
And the reason why they think this is so critical, is that they have found through the healing process is that the survivors need so much help and so much support. So they want to show people how their lives have changed over the past 10 years and how they've made productive lives coming out of that day of destruction coming back in April of 1995.
S. O'BRIEN: Much more to tell us about this morning coming out of Oklahoma City. Bill, thanks. We'll check in with you again.
Well, tonight, Aaron Brown hosts a "NEWSNIGHT" special. "Day of Terror," it's called, on the eve of the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. That's tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
And be sure to join us tomorrow for full coverage of the tenth anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. Bill's going to report for us live from Oklahoma City -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Here at home, testimony resumes this morning in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial, with the mother of Jackson's accuser facing another day of cross-examination.
More from CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More fireworks are expected when the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial, who covers herself from the cameras, resumes her courtroom battle with Jackson's lawyer, Thomas Mesereau. During her three days on the stand, the mother has lost her composure, spoken out of turn, and has been told by the judge to change her behavior.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, LEGAL ANALYST: The more she talks, the worse it gets for the prosecution. My heart goes out to the prosecution, because there's really nothing they can do with a witness like that. They've obviously prepared her, but now she truly is a loose cannon on that witness stand.
ROWLANDS: The mother has provided some potentially damaging testimony against Jackson, saying her son told her Jackson gave him wine at Neverland Ranch, and claiming that Jackson and his associates kept her family at the ranch against their will.
She also said her family was followed when they left Neverland, a claim that seemed to be backed up by seized surveillance videotapes shown in court. But some courtroom observers say some of the mother's claims seem to be exaggerated or untrue. JIM MORET, JACKSON POOL REPORTER: So much of what she said seemed so outrageous, so unbelievable.
ROWLANDS: At one point while testifying, the mother baited Michael Jackson to take the stand. She also pointed at him and called him a "Goliath." The judge struck that and other comments she made, including the statement that, "Neverland is all about booze, pornography, and sex with boys," something she blurted out while answering an unrelated question.
Michael Jackson shook his head back and forth while listening in court. Walking out, he seemed to be pleased, nodding his head to finish his sentence.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: It's going well.
ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: The Michael Jackson trial now entering its eighth week -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: A look at the weather this morning. Chad Myers at the CNN Center. He's got the latest forecast for us.
And, by all accounts, it looks pretty good today, Chad. Good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: We love the way that sounds.
M. O'BRIEN: Nice.
S. O'BRIEN: You love it when the weather guy says "Just beautiful."
M. O'BRIEN: Good flying weather. That's good.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Very nice.
M. O'BRIEN: All right.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Chad.
M. O'BRIEN: A war of words between economic superpowers. Long, simmering anger boils over the streets of Hong Kong. A look at the reasons for rising tension between China and Japan.
S. O'BRIEN: Also, an American sacrificed a half world away. Remembering the young woman who gave her life to help innocent victims of war.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
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M. O'BRIEN: A second round of anti-Japanese protests in China. Thousands of Chinese took to the streets this weekend. Rioters threw stones and eggs at the Japanese consulate, injured two Japanese citizens.
The tension stems from Japan's bid to become a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. China also says Japan is white-washing its war-time atrocities in a new textbook.
Today, Japanese officials say they're disappointed China has refused to apologize for the violent protests. So how could this conflict affect the trade relationship between Asia's two largest economies?
CNN U.N. correspondent Richard Roth joining us now.
Richard, this is a complicated long story. Why don't you try to break this down. What is -- what are the main points of contention?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's history and the future. China has never gotten over the invasion and occupation of its land in the early '30s, brutal occupation by Japanese forces. And Japan says that, you know, Japan is not ready to do what China wants, which is to formally in a written pledge apologize for what's happened.
And the future, as you mentioned, the Security Council at the U.N. Fifteen seats, but they want to give new permanent chairs to countries. China does not want Japan to get a new permanent seat. I think it would still like to be the top dog in Asia.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, I mean, could China effectively veto that possibility?
ROTH: Yes, it could. But this is a key part of all this U.N. reform effort. So there's going to have to be a lot of persuasion, maybe some more written apologies from Japan.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about what we saw over the weekend on the street. I mean, in some cases, those can reflect a very small group of people, causing a lot of, you know, media attention. Does this reflect widespread disillusionment?
ROTH: Right this is -- yes, there is a lot of anger in China. But the Chinese government, they have a problem.
It could whip these demonstrations up, which it is doing, but also trying to keep a rein on it. You may remember Tiananmen Square.
These are the largest series of demonstrations since 1989 and Tiananmen Square. The government, through message boards, the Internet, is bringing people out into the streets. But then it is also saying to some of the leaders of the demonstration, don't come out this weekend. It's been going on for three weekends.
M. O'BRIEN: Boy, interesting once you let that genie out of the bottle. When you start encouraging those sorts of people to use the Internet, for example, to protest, where does that lead?
ROTH: And then what's happening in Japan, also. Japan wants an apology -- a very big week for apologies. Japan wants an apology for the damage done to its consulates and embassies in China, and the Chinese foreign minister yesterday refused to do so, saying Japan has hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
M. O'BRIEN: It sounds almost, you know, like divorce proceedings. Irreconcilable differences come to mind here. What could mediate this kind of thing?
ROTH: Well, there's an international conference in Indonesia this week. The leaders of the two countries may get together.
Sometimes these things get a little worse before they get better. But there's a lot of tensions underneath that have been boiling for years. And Japan is also trying to flex its diplomatic muscles. It's not always turning the other cheek as it has in other crises.
M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you one other question here. As China's economy really takes off, and Japan's kind of stays flat, is that also part of the simmering tension there?
ROTH: It's economics, it's military. For U.S. interests, it's important to note that both countries have been building up their military. The economic interests, of course, huge. The China economy has grown to a point that Japan, of course, sees it as a natural rival.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, especially for oil. Don't you think?
ROTH: That's right. And they're disputing right now the east China sea islands. Japan, against the wishes of China, drilling for oil there.
So you've got -- another issue we should point out, textbooks. China says that Japan has glossed over the war-time atrocities in China. And there is a trend. In recent government-sponsored textbooks, they wipe away the abuses of women and other -- and germ warfare in the past.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And if you throw in what's going on, on the Korean peninsula, and this whole mix, it really makes for a potentially destabilizing time in the Pacific Rim.
ROTH: And some say the Bush administration, because it's been occupied with Iraq, 9/11, and Afghanistan, has had to take its eye off the ball off Asia, and that in the future is where the real trouble should be watched for.
M. O'BRIEN: So should the U.S. be more engaged, do you think, right now?
ROTH: Well, the U.S. has talked about having more talks with the Chinese government on a more regular basis, which hasn't occurred before. So they're trying to get a little bit more involved, and are certainly watching this dispute closely.
M. O'BRIEN: Our U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, who can boil it all down well for us. We appreciate it. All right -- Soledad.
ROTH: Thanks.
S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, 10 years after the tragedy, survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing remember the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt and heard just a tremendous roaring noise in my head. And everything went black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: An emotional journey back to that fateful day w the people who lived through it.
Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: To snitch or not to snitch, that is the question.
CAFFERTY: That is the question, yes.
A growing number of public schools are starting something called snitch programs. Students paid to tattle on other students 100 bucks for tips on theft or drugs, up to $500 for tips on guns.
According to "USA Today," some schools have had these things around since the '80s. But last month's school shooting in Red Lake, Minnesota, has generated renewed interest.
The question is, should students be paid to tell on their classmates?
M. writes, "Please stop calling it snitching and tattling. You become part of the problem by doing that. How about calling it civil or moral responsibility?"
Or we could call it tuna sandwiches.
James in Missouri writes, "Sure, go ahead, pay the little rats. Then put them in witness protection programs before you find their bodies in the bottom of some lake. The little punks they'll be ratting out are surely going to be gang members, and retaliation will be inevitable. I don't think asking kids to do the country's police work is the answer." John in Pennsylvania writes, "The money would be better spent on including an ethics class for the students so they understand their possibility to society and to their fellow students."
And Mark in Michigan writes, "When I was in high school back in the dark ages, the brothers and priests that ran the school used nothing but positive encouragement to obtain information. If you didn't say everything you knew, they would positively beat the crap out of you. Discipline does have its positive benefits."
S. O'BRIEN: You can't do that anymore.
M. O'BRIEN: It reminds me of Sister Grace Edwards, wrapping with -- you know, the ruler on the knuckles things. Yes.
CAFFERTY: Did it have a desired effect on you, Miles?
S. O'BRIEN: Did it work?
CAFFERTY: Absolutely. I told the truth about all things, immediately. And if not, I came up with a good story.
CAFFERTY: There you go.
M. O'BRIEN: Anyway, in an age of high-tech instant communication, the world will watch smoke signals to find out when the next pope is selected. Inside the rituals and traditions of the papal conclave ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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