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CNN Live At Daybreak
Picking a Pope; Shipyard Closing?; No Pope Chosen
Aired April 19, 2005 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
"Now in the News."
The 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City Bombing is being observed today. Vice President Cheney and former President Clinton will speak at a ceremony in Oklahoma City. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed at the Murrah Federal Building.
President Abraham Lincoln takes center stage today. The long- awaited high tech Lincoln Museum and Library will open in Springfield, Illinois. President Bush will attend the dedication.
In Kansas, prosecutors plan to lay out their case today against the man accused of terrorizing Wichita for years. Suspected BTK serial killer Dennis Rader has a court hearing on 10 counts of first degree murder.
Prosecutors will get another chance to question the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial. In four days of testimony, she's rambled, she's argued and she's ignored the judge's request to answer only the questions asked.
To the Forecast Center now.
Good morning -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Chad.
The cardinals in Rome will try again today to pick a successor to Pope John Paul. All eyes are on the little narrow chimney atop the Sistine Chapel. In about 30 minutes, we should see a smoke signal indicating the cardinals have completed the first balloting of the day. If the smoke is white or gray, it means a new pope has been chosen. Bells will also be tolling in St. Peter's Square just to make sure everyone understands the smoke signal.
We'll keep -- we have a live shot there. You see it there. It will remain up throughout our newscast. It's on the lower right-hand side of your screen. It is now 11:33 a.m. in Rome.
Some observers predict the election process could move rather quickly, perhaps wrapping up within a few days.
Let's talk with Sister Mary Ann Walsh of the U.S. Bishops Conference. She's in Rome this morning.
Good morning -- sister.
SISTER MARY ANN WALSH, U.S. BISHOPS CONFERENCE: Good morning -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Do you really expect it to wrap up quickly?
WALSH: I think we do. Going by past history, I think in about the last century conclaves have been three to four days. So I think that's what everybody is basing their hopes on, their expectations.
COSTELLO: Cardinal Ratzinger gave a very powerful homily yesterday and he spoke of conservatism as it applies to Catholicism. How much pull does he have in the conclave?
WALSH: Well I think the cardinals are looking at two areas. One, you have to look at the internal life of the church and the obligation toward evangelization and spreading the gospel. And I think that Cardinal Ratzinger emphasized that part of the concerns.
The cardinals are also looking at what is the role of the church in today's society, in today's world, in the struggle for the challenges that are between the first and third worlds, the predilection for war and violence that we're seeing in current times.
So I think Cardinal Ratzinger was emphasizing the first part.
COSTELLO: Well I understand that, but he is an intellectual, he was a very powerful figure during Pope John Paul II's reign. He's just a very powerful figure. I'm asking you how much pull he has? Is he talking the most? Does it go something like that inside this meeting?
WALSH: Well there's no way of knowing. He certainly is a person who can put the issues on the table, as he did in that homily during the liturgy.
COSTELLO: As far as the role of women in the church, given his homily, is there much expectation on your part that things will change after a new pope is chosen?
WALSH: I think the progress we've seen for women will continue. Right now in the church in the United States, 25 percent of the chancellors, a major position in a diocese, are women. In the United States there are 30,000 lay ecclesial (ph) ministers. These are lay people who have been authorized by the bishops and the pastors to have public leadership roles in the church. Eighty percent of those positions are held by women, so there's been a lot of progress.
COSTELLO: Sister, what about the number of nuns, because the numbers of nuns in this country has declined drastically? WALSH: It is, and that's certainly it's a concern. It's certainly a concern to me. We have seen since probably the late '60s an anti-institutional attitude in our country, and it has affected everybody. It has affected the priesthood. It's affected military. Anyone so I guess looking as if they were with the establishment have been affected by this change. Perhaps it will turn around. We don't know. It's a concern.
COSTELLO: Is it something you hope for in the new pope that he'll deal with this situation?
WALSH: Well certainly the hope that he's a person who can continue, as Pope John Paul II did, to inspire young people, particularly, to take up a role in the church.
COSTELLO: Sister Mary Ann Walsh, thanks for joining DAYBREAK this morning. We appreciate it.
WALSH: Thank you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: We have also been talking this morning about the anniversary of a tragic event, and that would be April 19, 1995, the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City struck by a single deadly bomb blast. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed, hundreds more injured. It was 9:02 a.m. in Oklahoma City, 10:02 Eastern Time.
Today, as part of the ceremonies marking the anniversary, the city will observe 168 seconds of silence at the hour of the explosion. That's one second for each of the victims.
As we go "Beyond the Soundbite" this morning, some of the sights, sounds and heartbreaking emotions of that day 10 years ago in Oklahoma City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY, LOST GRANDCHILDREN, CHASE & COLTON: When I looked up the street, I said, Edye, the babies. And I'll never forget the way her face just dropped. And she took off running.
EDYE SMITH LUCAS, LOST CHILDREN, CHASE & COLTON: Every block I ran, it was like please be this building. I didn't want to keep running and not see anything horrible, you know, until I got to the Murrah Building, but that's what happened.
And when we walked around to where the daycare had overhung the street, I mean it was just gone. There was nothing left.
KATHY: That's when my heart died. Edye crumbled to her knees, crying, my babies, my babies. And it was as though we entered the gates of hell.
LUCAS: Come back to me as fast as you can.
KATHY: You brought a stick in the house.
LUCAS: The day of Chase and Colton's funeral, a rescue worker came up to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I arrived, the boy had a pulse. It was very weak.
LUCAS: He dug through some rubble and found my son, Colton.
I love you.
He said he held him for a while until he died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: CNN will provide full coverage of today's anniversary in Oklahoma City. Our coverage of the ceremonies will begin at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Central.
DAYBREAK will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Want to get to our e-mail segment right now. We're asking the question should immigrants be required to learn English, because a Tennessee judge had a Mexican mother in court. She could not speak English. He said speak English or you're going to lose your kid. He backtracked on that, but he still said it, so we found it an intriguing turn of events.
So, take it away -- Chad.
MYERS: Interesting answer from Susie (ph) in North Carolina. I believe I'm correct in the fact that the U.S. does not have an official language. Therefore, it would seem that the judge has gone beyond the bounds of the judicial system in requiring this woman to speak English. However, as an immigrant and now nationalized citizen, I do know one of the requirements of citizenship is the ability to read, write and speak English -- Carol.
COSTELLO: This is from Mark (ph) from Oklahoma City. He says because the Hispanic population will be the majority in 15 to 20 years, the real question should be when will Americans begin to learn Spanish?
MYERS: Yes, I pondered (ph) that one out myself.
Here is Steven (ph) from Weatherford, Texas, says, no, not force, but if immigrants are not willing to speak English, they should not be able to stay, nor should they be allowed to become citizens or to vote.
COSTELLO: Wow!
MYERS: So that's kind of a yes as in a fact (ph) of a no.
COSTELLO: This is from Chris (ph) from New York City.
MYERS: Yes. COSTELLO: He says I don't feel that anyone should be forced to speak English to participate in the American way of life. A lot of people forget that Puerto Rico is an island with millions of Americans whose primary language is Spanish. As for the judge implying that a parent's inability to master the English language affects the child's ability to learn the language, I assure you, from first-hand experience, that is simply not true.
Thank you for your thoughts this morning. As always, we appreciate them.
Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:43 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.
It's day two at the Vatican. The Catholic Church's cardinals are meeting in the first session of today's conclave. We could soon learn whether another vote has been taken to select a new pope.
You'll be strolling down the produce aisle more often if you decide to follow the new food pyramid out today. The government has updated the guidelines since so many Americans are overweight.
In money news, it's red and raring to go. You're looking at the new Hummer. It's a new Hummer 3. The smaller version of the original rolled off the assembly line in Louisiana. It gets 20 miles per gallon.
In culture, after his Super Bowl halftime appearance, Paul McCartney is ready to rock more of the United States. Plans to kick off his "Back in the U.S." tour in Miami in September.
In sports, former baseball slugger Jose Canseco will be back in court for throwing punches. Two Florida men are suing Canseco and his brother, Ozzie, for a bar brawl back in 2001 -- Chad.
MYERS: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Chad.
That's a look at the latest headlines for you this morning.
The nation's oldest shipyard is at risk of being shut down as the military tries to cut costs. A huge effort now under way to save the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. It's one of some 55 proposed base closures that could affect communities in 30 states and Puerto Rico. A Defense Department committee is expected to unveil its recommendations on May 16.
We want to take you live to New England right now to our friends Mark Ericson and Danielle Carrier, the WOKQ Morning Waking Crew of Portsmouth and Manchester, New Hampshire.
Good morning.
DANIELLE CARRIER, WOKQ MORNING WAKING CREW, PORTSMOUTH & MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Morning.
MARK ERICSON, WOKQ MORNING WAKING CREW, PORTSMOUTH & MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Morning -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I know people have rallied to try to save this shipyard. Tell us about their efforts.
ERICSON: Well the shipyard itself, from a political and I guess a military standpoint, really doesn't get involved in these kind of situations. However, locally, more than a dozen chambers of commerce and a number of local politicians have gotten involved with this massive letter writing campaign to try to save the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
COSTELLO: Well one of the reasons that the government wants to shut it down is because it takes care of nuclear submarines which have become obsolete almost.
ERICSON: It takes care of nuclear submarines and it takes care of maintenance on some other types of ships as well. Now proponents of the shipyard say it does this more efficiently than many other facilities around the country. And if you're going on a sheer dollars and cents kind of equation, there are other shipyards that you may want to look at before this one.
COSTELLO: Well they are looking at about 55 throughout the country.
Citizens also rallied, didn't they?
ERICSON: No, citizens are getting together this weekend.
CARRIER: This weekend. Yes, there's a rolling rally this weekend that's going to start around 2:00 in New Hampshire. Two towns in New Hampshire, two main towns, everyone is meeting at one of the gates and then they're all going in to the shipyard together. It's not just local politicians, but it's actually a lot of family, friends, people who will be affected if the base gets closed.
ERICSON: This thing...
COSTELLO: How will this affect the community? How many people will lose their jobs?
ERICSON: There are 4,800 jobs, both civilian and military, that are part and parcel to the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. And the chambers involved in this estimate that those 4,800 jobs mean over $400 million to the local economy here.
COSTELLO: And it would just be sad to go by that shipyard and see it closed down and see the skeletons of old ships. I have all these images in my mind.
ERICSON: Well,...
CARRIER: Yes, it would hit home for a lot of people. I mean there's -- I can't -- I don't think I've met one person who has not been affected by the shipyard at some point in time in their life.
ERICSON: And this area went through something similar to this back in 1991 when the Pease Naval Airbase closed down.
COSTELLO: Is there some way they could make it more viable, bring -- modernize it, do something different at the shipyard to make it viable?
ERICSON: Well step one would be keeping it open, I guess.
CARRIER: Yes.
ERICSON: And then I think, depending upon what happens with military budgets, there may be some other options down the road with the shipyard. There was a letter writing campaign. About 10,000 letters were delivered to Washington, D.C. actually a week ago today. And in this day and age, in a post 9/11 world, opening 10,000 letters in Washington, D.C. takes a little bit longer.
COSTELLO: Yes, I guess they have to open the letters before they are sent to their recipients, don't they? Well we'll find out what happens on May 16.
Mark Ericson, Danielle Carrier, from the WOKQ Morning Waking Crew, thank you for joining DAYBREAK.
Still to come, concerns about the long-term safety of over-the- counter painkillers.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does look, especially since we're not hearing the bells, and the great bell has not started swinging, we have to assume that this is an indication that the voting this morning, the two votes this morning were inconclusive.
This coming up a little bit earlier than we thought. We had kind of timed this out to where we thought we'd be seeing smoke around somewhere between noon and 1:00 local time. It's just a little ahead of noon. It's 10 minutes until noon right now.
And, like you say, it is conclusively gray. I can't say that it's absolutely black and it's not absolutely white. Last night it was pretty evidently black, but this is -- it has to be, it's pretty much gray.
COSTELLO: Yes, it looks like that to me. You can hear the crowd dispersing and you can hear signs of their displeasure and disappointment.
BITTERMANN: Last night there was an audible moan that went up from the crowd after it went from white to black. Kind of intriguing, I think, actually, in a way, Carol, to sort of be reading smoke signals here in an age of the cell phone. COSTELLO: No cell phones allowed in the conclave, Jim Bittermann. OK, what does this mean now? What happens next?
BITTERMANN: OK, well I'm going to assume this is black smoke and that, because the bells aren't ringing, we have not elected a pope this morning. So that being said, two ballots have been conducted.
The cardinals will now break for lunch. They'll go over to Casa Santa Marca (ph). It's about 100 to 150 yards away from where they are in the Sistine Chapel. They'll either go on foot or by bus and they'll have lunch over there. And then they'll resume sometime mid- afternoon Rome time, about three hours from now, resume voting with two more rounds of voting expected this afternoon.
Of course either one, it depends on whether or not they come to a determining of who should be the next pope. That could come as early as say 4:00 or 5:00, if they were able to get two-thirds decided on the same person. Otherwise, there will be another round of voting after that and then this similar sort of thing going on, more smoke coming up towards the end of the afternoon, Rome time around 6:00 or 7:00 this evening. And then after that, it's anybody's guess.
They'll go out, they'll leave the Sistine Chapel, go home, go to bed, talk to each other, that sort of thing, and resume tomorrow.
Now that's all assuming that we don't get white smoke. But who knows, it could happen sooner than that.
COSTELLO: You never know.
BITTERMANN: John Allen, our Vatican expert, reminds me that in fact in 1978 that John Paul I was elected after only four ballots. Well, four ballots this time would be this afternoon sometime.
COSTELLO: Just to recap our viewers just tuning in, you can see smoke pouring out of that chimney at the Vatican. That means no new pope has been chosen. The vote has been taken for this morning. And now, as Jim Bittermann just reported, the cardinals are on their way to lunch and they'll meet again this afternoon.
Jim, can you still hear me?
BITTERMANN: Sorry.
COSTELLO: I hear you were talking to someone beside you.
BITTERMANN: Yes, I hear you. I hear you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know I was just wondering, everybody thinks that this will happen rather quickly, after three or four days; but isn't this a really difficult decision after the reign of Pope John Paul II? He was such a charismatic figure and so beloved, doesn't that make it harder for them to decide?
BITTERMANN: I think so. And in fact, one of the things that we've been talking about the last couple of days here is exactly who they are going to come up with, someone who fits everybody's parameters.
I mean a lot of people are saying it should be someone young. Some people are saying it should be somebody old. Some are saying it should be somebody from the southern half of the hemisphere. Others are saying it should be someone traditional, someone progressive, it should be an Italian. You hear all of these things that the cardinals are saying. So there's a lot of divided opinion on who should lead the church.
And it's pretty tough when you start looking down the pope files of the cardinals, and I've been reading all of them in the last day or two, it's pretty tough to find one that would fit everybody's demands. So it could be a process that takes some time, absolutely.
COSTELLO: I think that would be extraordinarily difficult.
Cardinal Ratzinger gave that very tough homily. I was wondering how strong his voice was -- is in this conclave? Is he leading the charge?
BITTERMANN: Well, I think he's leading the charge as far as the traditionalists are concerned here, in the sense that he really laid down, at the beginning of the conclave yesterday, his feelings about the church. Basically that the church should stick to fundamentals and that was quite clear.
So I would say as far as the traditionalists within the church, he is the point man. He is the person that's setting the tone. It doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the one that's elected the pope, but maybe he'll be the one that gets the next pope elected.
I want to bring into the picture here John Allen, our Vatican expert.
John, what do you think, do you think Cardinal Ratzinger is leading the charge for the traditionalists?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well I think the one thing we can say with some certainty, Jim, is that the predicted Ratzinger stampede has, at least as of yet, not materialized. We presume the cardinals have now gone through three ballots without electing a pope.
And as you and I are both well aware, there was a good deal of talk in the Italian press a little bit earlier in the week this might be an extremely short conclave with Ratzinger being elected perhaps in the second or third ballot. That clearly has not happened.
Beyond that, in terms of what the dynamics are inside the conclave at the moment, we can't speak with any certainty. Obviously Ratzinger would be, without any doubt, the standard bearer, the champion, if you like, of the more traditionalist doctrinally conservative view in the college.
But you know you and I have been talking all week as we sort of try to count noses in the college, is it realistic to think that that view represents two-thirds of the college? I've never been sure that it does. And I'm sure that drama is playing itself out right now.
COSTELLO: Jim, I was wondering...
BITTERMANN: Well how long do you -- sorry.
COSTELLO: Jim, I'm sorry.
BITTERMANN: Go ahead -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I was just wondering the mood inside. I know they're sworn to secrecy and if anything gets out about their, I guess their negotiations inside, they'll be excommunicated. But has anything leaked out at all? Is there any sense of who they're thinking about?
BITTERMANN: Well not so far, Carol.
John, have you heard anything?
ALLEN: Well, I mean the Italian papers, as they always are, are full of alleged indiscretions; but I really don't think that you can take that terribly seriously. The truth is that the conclave is one of the sort of impenetrable environments and we just don't know what's happening.
BITTERMANN: You know getting back to Carol's earlier question, John, about the divisions within the cardinals, how long will you wait before you come to a conclusion that there are serious problems in finding a new pope?
ALLEN: Well, I mean to some extent, I've already drawn that conclusion. I mean you know as you well know, we have been talking to cardinals, despite the press blackout of the past couple of weeks, we have been able to make contact with some cardinals.
It's been clear that although they obviously want to be united and they want this to be the result of consensus, at the same time these are men with their own views of things who have kind of a career in the church to draw upon and their own life experiences and their own sense of where things ought to go. It's been very clear that there are different approaches to some of the key issues facing the church. So I don't think there would be any surprise if those differences were reflected inside the conclave.
But I think what you're really asking is how long will the world wait before it draws the conclusion that the cardinals are divided? And I would suspect if this goes much beyond the end of the day on Thursday. That is if they go to that point where they have the option of taking a break, precisely in order to give them the chance to break a logjam, I would suspect by Thursday night or certainly on Friday we all will be telling the story of church in crisis, cardinals divided. And, as we know, that is a story line the cardinals would dearly love to avoid.
BITTERMANN: That is something you really want to avoid. I think they said that going in that the idea that the divisions. But on the other hand, there are some really irreconcilable differences. It means that somebody is going to have to compromise. That's one side you know that's somebody is going to have to give in and say, look, we're going to put up with whoever you elect as pope because we're going to put aside our needs for right now and perhaps at another stage down the line we'll be able to change things.
ALLEN: Well you know there's that famous saying of Pope John XXIII that the pope has to be leader of both of those with their foot on the brake and those with their foot on the gas. Meaning that in some sense he has to be everybody's pope.
And I think what goes on at a time like this is you know cardinals look at one another and they say, OK, we all have our own ideas, we all have our own systems, our own views on things. But who among us is someone who has shown, through his life and his career, the capacity to be open, not only to his own views but to those of others, to craft compromises, to give a little bit here and a little bit there and try, in some sense, to hold the whole thing together? So at some stage they begin looking for a potential unifier.
And I think, you know, you can sort of scan the life stories of these cardinals to see who among their numbers sort of seems to have that background.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Gentlemen, let me interrupt you for just a second.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen.
We want to go to the ground, to Alessio Vinci, because we heard that moan of disappointment from the huge crowd gathered at St. Peter's Square.
And just to recap for our viewers just tuning in to DAYBREAK, black smoke did pour from the chimney, which means that the cardinals -- there you see it. It's still pouring from that chimney right now. It means that a new pope has not been chosen. That stock market would have been white and the bells would have been tolling, but all is quiet in St. Peter's Square, except for the disappointment of the folks below.
Alessio Vinci is among the crowd -- good morning, Alessio.
What's the reaction down there?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Yes, there was quite a bit of a silent crowd here this morning, a big difference compared to last night. We had a black smoke again, but after we heard -- we saw the first stock market, I can tell you that the crowd really broke into a loud cheer.
This morning when the smoke came out, it looked not as black as yesterday. And so for several minutes the crowd was somewhat surprised to the color of the smoke, some believing, perhaps, it was white, some believing it was black.
And I can tell you and that comparing this smoke to the smoke from last night, it is certainly not as black as it was last night. And I'm seeing now the crowd really cheering. I can tell you that still there are a lot of people in this square who now believe that actually the smoke was black. But as Jim Bittermann reported earlier, I think that the bells are now tolling and therefore we do not believe at this time that the vote was, indeed, conclusive and that a pope has been selected.
Now, you know that there was a similar confusion back in 1978. And this time around the Vatican has set up a sort of what they describe as a journalist-proof system through which not only the ballots will be burned, but also several smoke canisters, either in black or white, to help out people here in the square to understand. But even watching in the screens here set up by the Vatican in the square -- and there is more smoke coming out now and...
COSTELLO: Oh, I see it there.
VINCI: ... this is quite unusual, believe me.
COSTELLO: And it's definitely black.
VINCI: That's -- it is definitely black now. It is quite unusual for the smoke to come out twice like this, with a big break in between.
COSTELLO: Well, I think they just wanted to make sure.
I wanted to ask you a question about the crowds down there. I see some of them are waving flags.
Are they sort of there, some of them, to cheer on who they want to be the next pope?
VINCI: No, not really. I mean you hear a lot of people, obviously, if you go to them and you ask them the question, then they tell you. Some people would like a more traditional pope who is sort of similar to Pope John Paul II. Some others are telling you that they would like the pope to be more open, if you want, to issues such as birth control then gay marriage. But you have to be a journalist to go there and prompt these questions.
Among themselves, it doesn't look like people are sort of arguing among themselves about who would be the best pope and who would be the candidate winner. As a matter of fact, I can tell you that the vast majority of the people in this square probably don't even know who the frontrunners are. Perhaps they know the name Ratzinger simply because the newspapers have been mentioning his name so many times in recent days. But if you were to ask them -- unless they were, of course, somebody coming from a diocese, from where the cardinal has actually been posted, I don't think most of the people here really know who the frontrunners are.
COSTELLO: Probably not. VINCI: I think what they're really waiting for is to hear a name.
COSTELLO: Probably not.
I wanted to ask John Allen, our Vatican analyst, about this second sighting of smoke coming from this chimney.
Why do you think the Vatican decided to do that?
ALLEN: Well, I presume what's going on here is if they've gone through two ballots this morning, then they've got, therefore, 230 sets of ballots that have to be burned. And, you know, having been in the Sistine Chapel and seeing that stove, I mean, I think it, frankly, has a limited capacity as to how many ballots you can stuff into it at any given time.
So my suspicion is they are simply making sure that -- and, of course, it's not just the ballots. They also have to destroy any notes the cardinals have taken during these rounds. And so it is entirely possible there's simply too much stuff to be burned at any given time.
But obviously, as we're seeing, the smoke continues to be black and we are not hearing the peals of the bells that the Vatican had promised us would accompany the election of a pope. So I think we remain fairly confident that the outcome of the morning session has been negative.
COSTELLO: I understand.
Just...
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just to add into your confusion, Carol...
COSTELLO: Oh, go ahead, Jim.
BITTERMANN: Just adding to the confusion here is that the noon bells, which go off at 12:00 p.m. each day, were pealing at the same time the smoke was coming out of the chimney. So there was some, at least some confusion on the part of the crowd about whether those are the bells joyously welcoming a new pope or whether those are the bells that ring every day at noon.
COSTELLO: That would be quite confusing.
New viewers are joining DAYBREAK right now, Jim Bittermann.
So tell us what happens next once again.
BITTERMANN: Well, right now the cardinals, we presume, will be breaking up from the Sistine Chapel, heading back to the Casa Sanctae Marthae. We don't really have a good way of seeing them do that. They will be going either by bus or on foot. It's about, oh, I don't know, 150 yards or so from the Sistine Chapel to the Casa Sanctae Marthae.
There they will have lunch. And since these two ballots this morning have been inconclusive, they perhaps will be doing a little talking over lunch about how to resolve their differences and how to come to some conclusion on one candidate that they can give their support to.
COSTELLO: You know, John Allen, it's interesting because every newspaper, it seems, in America has run an editorial on who it thinks should be pope. But the cardinals are not seeing any of that.
ALLEN: No, that's right. And, quite frankly, even if they were, I think it would be an open question how much impact that would have on the outcome.
But I'll tell you, you know, you're precisely right. I mean the reason they are under lockdown -- and, of course, conclave means with a key, the idea that they're behind a locked door -- is precisely to isolate themselves from those kinds of outside influences.
Of course, over the centuries, there have been attempts from kings and emperors and fascist dictators and all manner of characters to try to condition or influence the outcome of who gets elected pope and the church, in that sense, prizes its independence quite keenly.
Bear in mind that one of the articles of the oath that the cardinals had to swear to when they processed into the Sistine Chapel the other day was precisely to defend the temporal and spiritual interests -- and by that they mean above all the independence -- of the Holy See.
And so they are deliberately in a cocoon, so to speak, where they are protected and insulated from that kind of attempt to shape their thinking.
COSTELLO: Tell us, John, what exactly is happening in the conclave. I mean are there passionate speeches? Are they just talking quietly among themselves?
ALLEN: Well, I remember when I wrote a book on the subject some years ago. I went to interview a cardinal who, at that time, was the only man alive who had taken part in three conclaves. And that was exactly the question I asked him. I said this must be an electric environment where, you know, all kinds of conversations and debates are going on. And he said, you know, actually, if you could sit in the cardinals and watch this happen, you would be bored to tears, because the truth is that what happens inside the chapel is almost entirely ceremonial.
Remember that casting a ballot, it's not a simply matter of raising your hands as to who you want to vote for. It is a very elaborate process where each cardinal has to write the name on a piece of paper, fold it twice, process ceremonial, swear an oath that he's voting for the man he believes before god ought to be elected, return to his seat. There's a very elaborate counting process and then another process to make sure that first count was accurate. All of that takes an hour or so to unfold. So if you do that twice, that really is a morning's work.
All of the interesting sort of politicking and networking and so forth, by and large, happens outside the Sistine Chapel. As Jim was just describing a moment ago, over lunch, in this case, at the Casa Sanctae Marthae; or in the evenings; or during those walks in the Vatican garden that the cardinals can take now. That's really where the political action is.
COSTELLO: No wonder they need a nap in the afternoon, and a long one, too.
Let's go back down to St. Peter's Square because Alessio Vinci is in among the crowd of people.
Presumably they're still watching the smoke coming from this chimney, Alessio.
VINCI: That is correct, Carol. They are still watching, although some are already leaving the square. Although most of the people here are now to be putting themselves in line to be able to get inside the St. Peter's Basilica, where, of course, the body of Pope John Paul II is buried.
Yes, I would say there's a little bit of a disappointment on the one side. On the other side, you know, the people here realize that it will take, perhaps, a few days before a conclusive vote can be reached.
Looking back at history, I mean one of the, you know, the shortest conclave was two days and three ballots. That would mean that we would have a pope by the first voting probably tonight. And the longest one was actually five days and 14 ballots. But no conclave over the last century has gone over five days. So certainly people here knowing a little bit about it, perhaps, preparing themselves before coming here down in the square. They know that it will take a few days more to get a pope.
And I sense that having been here last night, the crowd was far more cheerful, far more anticipation -- there was far more anticipation among the people here. I think now most of the people here now realize that this vote is black and that they're going to have to wait at least another several hours before being able to get a glimpse of the white smoke.
Certainly, of course, there are pilgrims here. There are tourists. There are also a lot of people who want to be here on this historic day for when the pope is elected. And obviously most of them may not be here in Rome throughout the week, and so they want to make sure they're not going to miss it. So they're already, perhaps, making plans as to whether or not they should stay a few extra days or not.
So there's all these things going on in the minds of the people here. But most importantly they just want to be here for when the white smoke comes out.
COSTELLO: I can certainly understand that.
Suspense continues in Rome.
Thanks to Alessio Vinci, our Vatican analyst, John Allen, and our correspondent there, Jim Bittermann.
And we bid adieu to our CNN international audience and return to domestic.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with much more on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It's 6:13 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
It was black, but at first it looked gray. Black smoke did, indeed, rise from the chimney at the Sistine Chapel, indicating cardinals inside have completed another round of voting, but have not elected a pope.
In money news, you may not have noticed, but the government says it cost a little less to fill up last week. The Energy Department's weekly survey found a gallon of regular was down $0.04, to about $2.25.
In culture, the Tribeca Film Festival kicks off in New York with a thriller, "The Interpreter." This is the festival's fourth year. It will run through May 1, with about 250 screenings.
In sports, an Ethiopian wins the men's division of the Boston marathon while a Kenyan becomes the first woman to win the race four times. U.S. Olympian Alan Culpepper was fourth, which was actually the best finish for an American in 18 years -- Chad.
MYERS: For that yesterday, great weather for them, again today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: We want to bring you back to Rome for just a bit.
We're still looking at smoke pouring from the chimney atop the Sistine Chapel. Now, John Allen tells us, our Vatican analyst -- that's John Allen -- he tells us the reason so much gray smoke is pouring from this chimney, they have a lot to burn because these cardinals not only have to burn their ballots, but they also have to burn all of the notes they've taken. And that could be more than 200 sheets of paper, which is probably why this gray-black smoke continues to pour from the chimney.
What this means, in the end, though, they have not decided on a new pope. They're going to lunch right now. They'll take a little nap. They'll be back for the afternoon session and they'll try to vote again.
On with the other news of the morning now.
You've quite possibly never heard a judge issue an order like this. Learn English and take the pill or lose your kid. A judge in Lebanon, Tennessee dished out that advice to a woman from Mexico. He said he was trying to ensure the woman's daughter had a future as an American by issuing his order.
As you might expect, civil rights groups are not especially happy with Wilson County Juvenile Judge Barry Tatum. And while Judge Tatum did not return our calls, David Lubell from the Tennessee Immigration and Refugee Rights Coalition did.
He joins us now live from Nashville.
Good morning, David.
DAVID LUBELL, TENNESSEE IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE RIGHTS COALITION: Good morning.
COSTELLO: OK, let's get this out of the way right now. We're not going to talk specifically about the custody fight underway. The mother is accused of child neglect. We're just talking about the judge's order here.
Tell us what it was and if a judge can issue such an order.
LUBELL: We believe that a judge cannot issue such an order. The order was basically back in October, the judge said to the woman in question that she had six months to learn English at a fourth grade level or she would be at risk of losing her child.
COSTELLO: What was his reasoning for this?
LUBELL: Well, he said that he believes that without being able to communicate with her child and help her in the culture here that she would lose contact and lose the connection with her child.
COSTELLO: I was just wondering how the judge can prove that she knows English at a fourth grade level.
Does he give her some kind of test in court?
LUBELL: Yes, that was the question at issue, because yesterday was the -- was scheduled to be the day of the English test, as it were. The judge, back in October, had said, had listed a series of questions in English that he was going to expect her to be able to answer in English, last -- or yesterday.
COSTELLO: He did back off a bit, but there is a new court session coming up. But I'd like to play devil's advocate for just a moment. This woman doesn't speak English. Her child is two. It's tough to get along in Tennessee when you don't speak English. Isn't she short-changing her child by not teaching him or her to speak English? Couldn't the judge have a point?
LUBELL: Well, it's not about the fact that it's not important to learn English. Certainly immigrants throughout Tennessee are learning English, as they are throughout this country. A recent study by the National Academy of Sciences shows that, you know, over 97 percent of immigrants over time in the United States do learn English. It's about the constitution and you don't want a judge telling someone that the conditionality of having custody of their child is based on whether they learn English.
We used the example of, you know, if someone was to get a job in another country, maybe France, and the French government told that person or that family that they had six months to learn French or they were going to lose their child.
COSTELLO: David Lubell from the Tennessee Immigration and Refugee Rights Coalition.
Thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
We will follow events in Lebanon, Tennessee to see how it turns out for that woman and for, also, Judge Tatum.
Think your SUV gets bad gas mileage? Then maybe you'd prefer driving one of these. Coming up, bigger isn't always better. Sometimes smaller is.
And later, the great debate over stem cells. A leading researcher who appears in a new documentary on the topic will join us later in the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Just to update you once again, the cardinals have voted in Rome. No decision made on a new pope. Thick black smoke poured out that chimney above the Sistine Chapel. Of course, we'll keep you posted, but the cardinals will not meet again until this afternoon.
In our business headlines this morning, Coca-Cola admitting no wrongdoing in the settlement of a two year federal investigation. The world's largest soft drink maker faced accusations of fraud and accounting violations. The probe focused on extra concentrate being shipped to Japanese bottlers during the late 1990s.
You'll soon be able to find Martha Stewart wherever and whenever you need her. The domestic diva has signed a deal with Sirius Satellite Radio. The Martha Stewart channel will also provide a call- in segment starting in September.
And I know, Carrie Lee, you'll be first on the line.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A 24-hour channel. It's a nice, a nice chunk of business for Martha Stewart, certainly. COSTELLO: Oh, it certainly -- she is, she's going to be everywhere. She's going to have a reality show, a radio show.
LEE: I know. Only 24 hours in a day. I don't know how she fits all of this stuff in, but she's certainly not sitting around, that's for sure.
COSTELLO: That's why she's a diva.
LEE: Right.
COSTELLO: Anyway, it's time for our "Business Buzz."
Carrie Lee is here -- welcome.
LEE: Thank you.
We talk about high gas prices oh, at least once a week on this show, right? Well, you think about the Hummer from G.M., a gas guzzling vehicle. Well, G.M. is now revamping the Hummer to make it more fuel efficient. The new Hummer H3 is going to be smaller, more fuel efficient than prior models. The H3 is expected to get 20 miles per gallon. The H2 got about 12 to 13 miles per gallon.
The first H3 rolled off of the assembly line yesterday in Shreveport, Louisiana. Struggling General Motors is hoping the new version will help boost sales. It spent a billion dollars to renovate that Shreveport factory and $100 million on a factory in South Africa. They're hoping to sell the Hummer overseas.
Nearly 100,000 Hummers have been sold in the U.S. since 2000. We'll see if this helps the company.
But I'll tell you, Carol, General Motors, in terms of the company, not in very good shape. The shares are down about 36 percent so far this year alone. They are reporting profits this morning. Wall Street expecting a pretty big loss versus a profit a year ago. So they need to do something to get this business going again.
COSTELLO: Actually, the new Hummer looks pretty nice.
LEE: It does. It's a little bit smaller, not quite as ostentatious.
COSTELLO: Gargantuan.
LEE: Yes. So we'll see how they do.
COSTELLO: And 20 miles per gallon isn't bad.
LEE: It's not bad. I think it's in line with other SUVs, or this type of vehicle, this size type of vehicle.
COSTELLO: Finally. They got smarter.
LEE: Yes. COSTELLO: They should have done that in the first place, though.
LEE: We'll see how they do.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
LEE: OK.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Carrie Lee.
Coming up on DAYBREAK, what have we learned in 10 years? In four? I'll speak with two survivors from two different cities with very similar stories of looking past a tragedy.
And as the Catholic community awaits the naming of the next leader, we take a look at one issue the new pope will surely have to address -- stem cell research.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We've been waiting for the sign all morning long and it came. Black smoke pouring from the chimney over the Sistine Chapel, which means the cardinals came to no conclusion as to who the new pope will be. Thousands of people in St. Peter's Square have been watching the chimney, too, over the Sistine Chapel.
CNN's Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us now from Vatican City -- hello, Alessio.
VINCI: Hello, Carol.
Yes (AUDIO GAP) all morning waiting for the puff of smoke emerging from the top of the Sistine Chapel. And, again, as you just mentioned, it was black smoke, meaning that there is no pope. And some of the people we talked to, there is a bit of (AUDIO GAP) most of them telling us they will be back tonight.
Let me show you a little bit around the square. Not too many people anymore, although still you see a fairly sizeable crowd, because most of them now are trying to get into St. Peter's Basilica, where the body of the pope is buried, of course. And that is they want to have the opportunity, perhaps, to pay their last respects to the tomb of Pope John Paul II while his successor is being selected at the Sistine Chapel.
The cardinals now, of course, are going to take a recess. They're taking a break. They're going to go back inside the Sanctae Marthae, which is sort of a hotel like residence, still inside the Vatican. That is where they're going to have lunch, take a rest, perhaps, even talk among themselves about these past two votes of this morning. And then they re -- again, reenter the Sistine Chapel at around 4:00 p.m. local time. That's about three-and-a-half hours from now. And then they will vote twice more today. And then if there is no conclusive vote, we'll see again black smoke from the chimney up there in St. Peter's -- in the Sistine Chapel -- at around 7:00 p.m. local time, about 1:00 p.m. Eastern time -- Carol. COSTELLO: Enough said.
Alessio Vinci live from the Vatican this morning.
Thank you.
It is 6:26 Eastern.
Now in the news, we could learn more details today on those brutal BTK serial killings. Dennis Rader, the man accused of being the BTK killer, is scheduled to be arraigned. Rader could still waive the hearing and enter a plea instead.
The number of military personnel wounded in Iraq tops more than 10,000. They've lost limbs and abilities. This afternoon, they'll tell a Senate committee how they're adjusting to life back at home.
Prosecutors will get another chance to question the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial. In four days of testimony, she's rambled, she's argued and she's ignored the judge's request to answer only the questions asked.
Just when you thought the steroid scandal had vanished, a deal could be in the works between major league baseball and Congress. The "New York Times" reporting Commissioner Bud Selig is considering hiring a special investigator if Congress puts its investigation on hold.
To the Forecast Center now and Chad -- good morning.
MYERS: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Here's a look at the memorial events on today's Oklahoma City anniversary.
At 9:02 a.m. Central time, 168 seconds of silence, one second for each victim. Former President Bill Clinton is among the speakers expected to address the crowd. The names of the victims will be read by the children impacted by the tragedy.
Of course, the memories of that awful day in 1995 linger. For 10 years, people there have recovered, thrived and are asking tough questions about domestic terrorism and who deserves what after the unthinkable happens.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 19, 2005 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
"Now in the News."
The 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City Bombing is being observed today. Vice President Cheney and former President Clinton will speak at a ceremony in Oklahoma City. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed at the Murrah Federal Building.
President Abraham Lincoln takes center stage today. The long- awaited high tech Lincoln Museum and Library will open in Springfield, Illinois. President Bush will attend the dedication.
In Kansas, prosecutors plan to lay out their case today against the man accused of terrorizing Wichita for years. Suspected BTK serial killer Dennis Rader has a court hearing on 10 counts of first degree murder.
Prosecutors will get another chance to question the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial. In four days of testimony, she's rambled, she's argued and she's ignored the judge's request to answer only the questions asked.
To the Forecast Center now.
Good morning -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Chad.
The cardinals in Rome will try again today to pick a successor to Pope John Paul. All eyes are on the little narrow chimney atop the Sistine Chapel. In about 30 minutes, we should see a smoke signal indicating the cardinals have completed the first balloting of the day. If the smoke is white or gray, it means a new pope has been chosen. Bells will also be tolling in St. Peter's Square just to make sure everyone understands the smoke signal.
We'll keep -- we have a live shot there. You see it there. It will remain up throughout our newscast. It's on the lower right-hand side of your screen. It is now 11:33 a.m. in Rome.
Some observers predict the election process could move rather quickly, perhaps wrapping up within a few days.
Let's talk with Sister Mary Ann Walsh of the U.S. Bishops Conference. She's in Rome this morning.
Good morning -- sister.
SISTER MARY ANN WALSH, U.S. BISHOPS CONFERENCE: Good morning -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Do you really expect it to wrap up quickly?
WALSH: I think we do. Going by past history, I think in about the last century conclaves have been three to four days. So I think that's what everybody is basing their hopes on, their expectations.
COSTELLO: Cardinal Ratzinger gave a very powerful homily yesterday and he spoke of conservatism as it applies to Catholicism. How much pull does he have in the conclave?
WALSH: Well I think the cardinals are looking at two areas. One, you have to look at the internal life of the church and the obligation toward evangelization and spreading the gospel. And I think that Cardinal Ratzinger emphasized that part of the concerns.
The cardinals are also looking at what is the role of the church in today's society, in today's world, in the struggle for the challenges that are between the first and third worlds, the predilection for war and violence that we're seeing in current times.
So I think Cardinal Ratzinger was emphasizing the first part.
COSTELLO: Well I understand that, but he is an intellectual, he was a very powerful figure during Pope John Paul II's reign. He's just a very powerful figure. I'm asking you how much pull he has? Is he talking the most? Does it go something like that inside this meeting?
WALSH: Well there's no way of knowing. He certainly is a person who can put the issues on the table, as he did in that homily during the liturgy.
COSTELLO: As far as the role of women in the church, given his homily, is there much expectation on your part that things will change after a new pope is chosen?
WALSH: I think the progress we've seen for women will continue. Right now in the church in the United States, 25 percent of the chancellors, a major position in a diocese, are women. In the United States there are 30,000 lay ecclesial (ph) ministers. These are lay people who have been authorized by the bishops and the pastors to have public leadership roles in the church. Eighty percent of those positions are held by women, so there's been a lot of progress.
COSTELLO: Sister, what about the number of nuns, because the numbers of nuns in this country has declined drastically? WALSH: It is, and that's certainly it's a concern. It's certainly a concern to me. We have seen since probably the late '60s an anti-institutional attitude in our country, and it has affected everybody. It has affected the priesthood. It's affected military. Anyone so I guess looking as if they were with the establishment have been affected by this change. Perhaps it will turn around. We don't know. It's a concern.
COSTELLO: Is it something you hope for in the new pope that he'll deal with this situation?
WALSH: Well certainly the hope that he's a person who can continue, as Pope John Paul II did, to inspire young people, particularly, to take up a role in the church.
COSTELLO: Sister Mary Ann Walsh, thanks for joining DAYBREAK this morning. We appreciate it.
WALSH: Thank you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: We have also been talking this morning about the anniversary of a tragic event, and that would be April 19, 1995, the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City struck by a single deadly bomb blast. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed, hundreds more injured. It was 9:02 a.m. in Oklahoma City, 10:02 Eastern Time.
Today, as part of the ceremonies marking the anniversary, the city will observe 168 seconds of silence at the hour of the explosion. That's one second for each of the victims.
As we go "Beyond the Soundbite" this morning, some of the sights, sounds and heartbreaking emotions of that day 10 years ago in Oklahoma City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY, LOST GRANDCHILDREN, CHASE & COLTON: When I looked up the street, I said, Edye, the babies. And I'll never forget the way her face just dropped. And she took off running.
EDYE SMITH LUCAS, LOST CHILDREN, CHASE & COLTON: Every block I ran, it was like please be this building. I didn't want to keep running and not see anything horrible, you know, until I got to the Murrah Building, but that's what happened.
And when we walked around to where the daycare had overhung the street, I mean it was just gone. There was nothing left.
KATHY: That's when my heart died. Edye crumbled to her knees, crying, my babies, my babies. And it was as though we entered the gates of hell.
LUCAS: Come back to me as fast as you can.
KATHY: You brought a stick in the house.
LUCAS: The day of Chase and Colton's funeral, a rescue worker came up to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I arrived, the boy had a pulse. It was very weak.
LUCAS: He dug through some rubble and found my son, Colton.
I love you.
He said he held him for a while until he died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: CNN will provide full coverage of today's anniversary in Oklahoma City. Our coverage of the ceremonies will begin at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Central.
DAYBREAK will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Want to get to our e-mail segment right now. We're asking the question should immigrants be required to learn English, because a Tennessee judge had a Mexican mother in court. She could not speak English. He said speak English or you're going to lose your kid. He backtracked on that, but he still said it, so we found it an intriguing turn of events.
So, take it away -- Chad.
MYERS: Interesting answer from Susie (ph) in North Carolina. I believe I'm correct in the fact that the U.S. does not have an official language. Therefore, it would seem that the judge has gone beyond the bounds of the judicial system in requiring this woman to speak English. However, as an immigrant and now nationalized citizen, I do know one of the requirements of citizenship is the ability to read, write and speak English -- Carol.
COSTELLO: This is from Mark (ph) from Oklahoma City. He says because the Hispanic population will be the majority in 15 to 20 years, the real question should be when will Americans begin to learn Spanish?
MYERS: Yes, I pondered (ph) that one out myself.
Here is Steven (ph) from Weatherford, Texas, says, no, not force, but if immigrants are not willing to speak English, they should not be able to stay, nor should they be allowed to become citizens or to vote.
COSTELLO: Wow!
MYERS: So that's kind of a yes as in a fact (ph) of a no.
COSTELLO: This is from Chris (ph) from New York City.
MYERS: Yes. COSTELLO: He says I don't feel that anyone should be forced to speak English to participate in the American way of life. A lot of people forget that Puerto Rico is an island with millions of Americans whose primary language is Spanish. As for the judge implying that a parent's inability to master the English language affects the child's ability to learn the language, I assure you, from first-hand experience, that is simply not true.
Thank you for your thoughts this morning. As always, we appreciate them.
Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:43 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.
It's day two at the Vatican. The Catholic Church's cardinals are meeting in the first session of today's conclave. We could soon learn whether another vote has been taken to select a new pope.
You'll be strolling down the produce aisle more often if you decide to follow the new food pyramid out today. The government has updated the guidelines since so many Americans are overweight.
In money news, it's red and raring to go. You're looking at the new Hummer. It's a new Hummer 3. The smaller version of the original rolled off the assembly line in Louisiana. It gets 20 miles per gallon.
In culture, after his Super Bowl halftime appearance, Paul McCartney is ready to rock more of the United States. Plans to kick off his "Back in the U.S." tour in Miami in September.
In sports, former baseball slugger Jose Canseco will be back in court for throwing punches. Two Florida men are suing Canseco and his brother, Ozzie, for a bar brawl back in 2001 -- Chad.
MYERS: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Chad.
That's a look at the latest headlines for you this morning.
The nation's oldest shipyard is at risk of being shut down as the military tries to cut costs. A huge effort now under way to save the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. It's one of some 55 proposed base closures that could affect communities in 30 states and Puerto Rico. A Defense Department committee is expected to unveil its recommendations on May 16.
We want to take you live to New England right now to our friends Mark Ericson and Danielle Carrier, the WOKQ Morning Waking Crew of Portsmouth and Manchester, New Hampshire.
Good morning.
DANIELLE CARRIER, WOKQ MORNING WAKING CREW, PORTSMOUTH & MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Morning.
MARK ERICSON, WOKQ MORNING WAKING CREW, PORTSMOUTH & MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Morning -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I know people have rallied to try to save this shipyard. Tell us about their efforts.
ERICSON: Well the shipyard itself, from a political and I guess a military standpoint, really doesn't get involved in these kind of situations. However, locally, more than a dozen chambers of commerce and a number of local politicians have gotten involved with this massive letter writing campaign to try to save the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
COSTELLO: Well one of the reasons that the government wants to shut it down is because it takes care of nuclear submarines which have become obsolete almost.
ERICSON: It takes care of nuclear submarines and it takes care of maintenance on some other types of ships as well. Now proponents of the shipyard say it does this more efficiently than many other facilities around the country. And if you're going on a sheer dollars and cents kind of equation, there are other shipyards that you may want to look at before this one.
COSTELLO: Well they are looking at about 55 throughout the country.
Citizens also rallied, didn't they?
ERICSON: No, citizens are getting together this weekend.
CARRIER: This weekend. Yes, there's a rolling rally this weekend that's going to start around 2:00 in New Hampshire. Two towns in New Hampshire, two main towns, everyone is meeting at one of the gates and then they're all going in to the shipyard together. It's not just local politicians, but it's actually a lot of family, friends, people who will be affected if the base gets closed.
ERICSON: This thing...
COSTELLO: How will this affect the community? How many people will lose their jobs?
ERICSON: There are 4,800 jobs, both civilian and military, that are part and parcel to the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. And the chambers involved in this estimate that those 4,800 jobs mean over $400 million to the local economy here.
COSTELLO: And it would just be sad to go by that shipyard and see it closed down and see the skeletons of old ships. I have all these images in my mind.
ERICSON: Well,...
CARRIER: Yes, it would hit home for a lot of people. I mean there's -- I can't -- I don't think I've met one person who has not been affected by the shipyard at some point in time in their life.
ERICSON: And this area went through something similar to this back in 1991 when the Pease Naval Airbase closed down.
COSTELLO: Is there some way they could make it more viable, bring -- modernize it, do something different at the shipyard to make it viable?
ERICSON: Well step one would be keeping it open, I guess.
CARRIER: Yes.
ERICSON: And then I think, depending upon what happens with military budgets, there may be some other options down the road with the shipyard. There was a letter writing campaign. About 10,000 letters were delivered to Washington, D.C. actually a week ago today. And in this day and age, in a post 9/11 world, opening 10,000 letters in Washington, D.C. takes a little bit longer.
COSTELLO: Yes, I guess they have to open the letters before they are sent to their recipients, don't they? Well we'll find out what happens on May 16.
Mark Ericson, Danielle Carrier, from the WOKQ Morning Waking Crew, thank you for joining DAYBREAK.
Still to come, concerns about the long-term safety of over-the- counter painkillers.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does look, especially since we're not hearing the bells, and the great bell has not started swinging, we have to assume that this is an indication that the voting this morning, the two votes this morning were inconclusive.
This coming up a little bit earlier than we thought. We had kind of timed this out to where we thought we'd be seeing smoke around somewhere between noon and 1:00 local time. It's just a little ahead of noon. It's 10 minutes until noon right now.
And, like you say, it is conclusively gray. I can't say that it's absolutely black and it's not absolutely white. Last night it was pretty evidently black, but this is -- it has to be, it's pretty much gray.
COSTELLO: Yes, it looks like that to me. You can hear the crowd dispersing and you can hear signs of their displeasure and disappointment.
BITTERMANN: Last night there was an audible moan that went up from the crowd after it went from white to black. Kind of intriguing, I think, actually, in a way, Carol, to sort of be reading smoke signals here in an age of the cell phone. COSTELLO: No cell phones allowed in the conclave, Jim Bittermann. OK, what does this mean now? What happens next?
BITTERMANN: OK, well I'm going to assume this is black smoke and that, because the bells aren't ringing, we have not elected a pope this morning. So that being said, two ballots have been conducted.
The cardinals will now break for lunch. They'll go over to Casa Santa Marca (ph). It's about 100 to 150 yards away from where they are in the Sistine Chapel. They'll either go on foot or by bus and they'll have lunch over there. And then they'll resume sometime mid- afternoon Rome time, about three hours from now, resume voting with two more rounds of voting expected this afternoon.
Of course either one, it depends on whether or not they come to a determining of who should be the next pope. That could come as early as say 4:00 or 5:00, if they were able to get two-thirds decided on the same person. Otherwise, there will be another round of voting after that and then this similar sort of thing going on, more smoke coming up towards the end of the afternoon, Rome time around 6:00 or 7:00 this evening. And then after that, it's anybody's guess.
They'll go out, they'll leave the Sistine Chapel, go home, go to bed, talk to each other, that sort of thing, and resume tomorrow.
Now that's all assuming that we don't get white smoke. But who knows, it could happen sooner than that.
COSTELLO: You never know.
BITTERMANN: John Allen, our Vatican expert, reminds me that in fact in 1978 that John Paul I was elected after only four ballots. Well, four ballots this time would be this afternoon sometime.
COSTELLO: Just to recap our viewers just tuning in, you can see smoke pouring out of that chimney at the Vatican. That means no new pope has been chosen. The vote has been taken for this morning. And now, as Jim Bittermann just reported, the cardinals are on their way to lunch and they'll meet again this afternoon.
Jim, can you still hear me?
BITTERMANN: Sorry.
COSTELLO: I hear you were talking to someone beside you.
BITTERMANN: Yes, I hear you. I hear you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know I was just wondering, everybody thinks that this will happen rather quickly, after three or four days; but isn't this a really difficult decision after the reign of Pope John Paul II? He was such a charismatic figure and so beloved, doesn't that make it harder for them to decide?
BITTERMANN: I think so. And in fact, one of the things that we've been talking about the last couple of days here is exactly who they are going to come up with, someone who fits everybody's parameters.
I mean a lot of people are saying it should be someone young. Some people are saying it should be somebody old. Some are saying it should be somebody from the southern half of the hemisphere. Others are saying it should be someone traditional, someone progressive, it should be an Italian. You hear all of these things that the cardinals are saying. So there's a lot of divided opinion on who should lead the church.
And it's pretty tough when you start looking down the pope files of the cardinals, and I've been reading all of them in the last day or two, it's pretty tough to find one that would fit everybody's demands. So it could be a process that takes some time, absolutely.
COSTELLO: I think that would be extraordinarily difficult.
Cardinal Ratzinger gave that very tough homily. I was wondering how strong his voice was -- is in this conclave? Is he leading the charge?
BITTERMANN: Well, I think he's leading the charge as far as the traditionalists are concerned here, in the sense that he really laid down, at the beginning of the conclave yesterday, his feelings about the church. Basically that the church should stick to fundamentals and that was quite clear.
So I would say as far as the traditionalists within the church, he is the point man. He is the person that's setting the tone. It doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the one that's elected the pope, but maybe he'll be the one that gets the next pope elected.
I want to bring into the picture here John Allen, our Vatican expert.
John, what do you think, do you think Cardinal Ratzinger is leading the charge for the traditionalists?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well I think the one thing we can say with some certainty, Jim, is that the predicted Ratzinger stampede has, at least as of yet, not materialized. We presume the cardinals have now gone through three ballots without electing a pope.
And as you and I are both well aware, there was a good deal of talk in the Italian press a little bit earlier in the week this might be an extremely short conclave with Ratzinger being elected perhaps in the second or third ballot. That clearly has not happened.
Beyond that, in terms of what the dynamics are inside the conclave at the moment, we can't speak with any certainty. Obviously Ratzinger would be, without any doubt, the standard bearer, the champion, if you like, of the more traditionalist doctrinally conservative view in the college.
But you know you and I have been talking all week as we sort of try to count noses in the college, is it realistic to think that that view represents two-thirds of the college? I've never been sure that it does. And I'm sure that drama is playing itself out right now.
COSTELLO: Jim, I was wondering...
BITTERMANN: Well how long do you -- sorry.
COSTELLO: Jim, I'm sorry.
BITTERMANN: Go ahead -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I was just wondering the mood inside. I know they're sworn to secrecy and if anything gets out about their, I guess their negotiations inside, they'll be excommunicated. But has anything leaked out at all? Is there any sense of who they're thinking about?
BITTERMANN: Well not so far, Carol.
John, have you heard anything?
ALLEN: Well, I mean the Italian papers, as they always are, are full of alleged indiscretions; but I really don't think that you can take that terribly seriously. The truth is that the conclave is one of the sort of impenetrable environments and we just don't know what's happening.
BITTERMANN: You know getting back to Carol's earlier question, John, about the divisions within the cardinals, how long will you wait before you come to a conclusion that there are serious problems in finding a new pope?
ALLEN: Well, I mean to some extent, I've already drawn that conclusion. I mean you know as you well know, we have been talking to cardinals, despite the press blackout of the past couple of weeks, we have been able to make contact with some cardinals.
It's been clear that although they obviously want to be united and they want this to be the result of consensus, at the same time these are men with their own views of things who have kind of a career in the church to draw upon and their own life experiences and their own sense of where things ought to go. It's been very clear that there are different approaches to some of the key issues facing the church. So I don't think there would be any surprise if those differences were reflected inside the conclave.
But I think what you're really asking is how long will the world wait before it draws the conclusion that the cardinals are divided? And I would suspect if this goes much beyond the end of the day on Thursday. That is if they go to that point where they have the option of taking a break, precisely in order to give them the chance to break a logjam, I would suspect by Thursday night or certainly on Friday we all will be telling the story of church in crisis, cardinals divided. And, as we know, that is a story line the cardinals would dearly love to avoid.
BITTERMANN: That is something you really want to avoid. I think they said that going in that the idea that the divisions. But on the other hand, there are some really irreconcilable differences. It means that somebody is going to have to compromise. That's one side you know that's somebody is going to have to give in and say, look, we're going to put up with whoever you elect as pope because we're going to put aside our needs for right now and perhaps at another stage down the line we'll be able to change things.
ALLEN: Well you know there's that famous saying of Pope John XXIII that the pope has to be leader of both of those with their foot on the brake and those with their foot on the gas. Meaning that in some sense he has to be everybody's pope.
And I think what goes on at a time like this is you know cardinals look at one another and they say, OK, we all have our own ideas, we all have our own systems, our own views on things. But who among us is someone who has shown, through his life and his career, the capacity to be open, not only to his own views but to those of others, to craft compromises, to give a little bit here and a little bit there and try, in some sense, to hold the whole thing together? So at some stage they begin looking for a potential unifier.
And I think, you know, you can sort of scan the life stories of these cardinals to see who among their numbers sort of seems to have that background.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Gentlemen, let me interrupt you for just a second.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen.
We want to go to the ground, to Alessio Vinci, because we heard that moan of disappointment from the huge crowd gathered at St. Peter's Square.
And just to recap for our viewers just tuning in to DAYBREAK, black smoke did pour from the chimney, which means that the cardinals -- there you see it. It's still pouring from that chimney right now. It means that a new pope has not been chosen. That stock market would have been white and the bells would have been tolling, but all is quiet in St. Peter's Square, except for the disappointment of the folks below.
Alessio Vinci is among the crowd -- good morning, Alessio.
What's the reaction down there?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Yes, there was quite a bit of a silent crowd here this morning, a big difference compared to last night. We had a black smoke again, but after we heard -- we saw the first stock market, I can tell you that the crowd really broke into a loud cheer.
This morning when the smoke came out, it looked not as black as yesterday. And so for several minutes the crowd was somewhat surprised to the color of the smoke, some believing, perhaps, it was white, some believing it was black.
And I can tell you and that comparing this smoke to the smoke from last night, it is certainly not as black as it was last night. And I'm seeing now the crowd really cheering. I can tell you that still there are a lot of people in this square who now believe that actually the smoke was black. But as Jim Bittermann reported earlier, I think that the bells are now tolling and therefore we do not believe at this time that the vote was, indeed, conclusive and that a pope has been selected.
Now, you know that there was a similar confusion back in 1978. And this time around the Vatican has set up a sort of what they describe as a journalist-proof system through which not only the ballots will be burned, but also several smoke canisters, either in black or white, to help out people here in the square to understand. But even watching in the screens here set up by the Vatican in the square -- and there is more smoke coming out now and...
COSTELLO: Oh, I see it there.
VINCI: ... this is quite unusual, believe me.
COSTELLO: And it's definitely black.
VINCI: That's -- it is definitely black now. It is quite unusual for the smoke to come out twice like this, with a big break in between.
COSTELLO: Well, I think they just wanted to make sure.
I wanted to ask you a question about the crowds down there. I see some of them are waving flags.
Are they sort of there, some of them, to cheer on who they want to be the next pope?
VINCI: No, not really. I mean you hear a lot of people, obviously, if you go to them and you ask them the question, then they tell you. Some people would like a more traditional pope who is sort of similar to Pope John Paul II. Some others are telling you that they would like the pope to be more open, if you want, to issues such as birth control then gay marriage. But you have to be a journalist to go there and prompt these questions.
Among themselves, it doesn't look like people are sort of arguing among themselves about who would be the best pope and who would be the candidate winner. As a matter of fact, I can tell you that the vast majority of the people in this square probably don't even know who the frontrunners are. Perhaps they know the name Ratzinger simply because the newspapers have been mentioning his name so many times in recent days. But if you were to ask them -- unless they were, of course, somebody coming from a diocese, from where the cardinal has actually been posted, I don't think most of the people here really know who the frontrunners are.
COSTELLO: Probably not. VINCI: I think what they're really waiting for is to hear a name.
COSTELLO: Probably not.
I wanted to ask John Allen, our Vatican analyst, about this second sighting of smoke coming from this chimney.
Why do you think the Vatican decided to do that?
ALLEN: Well, I presume what's going on here is if they've gone through two ballots this morning, then they've got, therefore, 230 sets of ballots that have to be burned. And, you know, having been in the Sistine Chapel and seeing that stove, I mean, I think it, frankly, has a limited capacity as to how many ballots you can stuff into it at any given time.
So my suspicion is they are simply making sure that -- and, of course, it's not just the ballots. They also have to destroy any notes the cardinals have taken during these rounds. And so it is entirely possible there's simply too much stuff to be burned at any given time.
But obviously, as we're seeing, the smoke continues to be black and we are not hearing the peals of the bells that the Vatican had promised us would accompany the election of a pope. So I think we remain fairly confident that the outcome of the morning session has been negative.
COSTELLO: I understand.
Just...
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just to add into your confusion, Carol...
COSTELLO: Oh, go ahead, Jim.
BITTERMANN: Just adding to the confusion here is that the noon bells, which go off at 12:00 p.m. each day, were pealing at the same time the smoke was coming out of the chimney. So there was some, at least some confusion on the part of the crowd about whether those are the bells joyously welcoming a new pope or whether those are the bells that ring every day at noon.
COSTELLO: That would be quite confusing.
New viewers are joining DAYBREAK right now, Jim Bittermann.
So tell us what happens next once again.
BITTERMANN: Well, right now the cardinals, we presume, will be breaking up from the Sistine Chapel, heading back to the Casa Sanctae Marthae. We don't really have a good way of seeing them do that. They will be going either by bus or on foot. It's about, oh, I don't know, 150 yards or so from the Sistine Chapel to the Casa Sanctae Marthae.
There they will have lunch. And since these two ballots this morning have been inconclusive, they perhaps will be doing a little talking over lunch about how to resolve their differences and how to come to some conclusion on one candidate that they can give their support to.
COSTELLO: You know, John Allen, it's interesting because every newspaper, it seems, in America has run an editorial on who it thinks should be pope. But the cardinals are not seeing any of that.
ALLEN: No, that's right. And, quite frankly, even if they were, I think it would be an open question how much impact that would have on the outcome.
But I'll tell you, you know, you're precisely right. I mean the reason they are under lockdown -- and, of course, conclave means with a key, the idea that they're behind a locked door -- is precisely to isolate themselves from those kinds of outside influences.
Of course, over the centuries, there have been attempts from kings and emperors and fascist dictators and all manner of characters to try to condition or influence the outcome of who gets elected pope and the church, in that sense, prizes its independence quite keenly.
Bear in mind that one of the articles of the oath that the cardinals had to swear to when they processed into the Sistine Chapel the other day was precisely to defend the temporal and spiritual interests -- and by that they mean above all the independence -- of the Holy See.
And so they are deliberately in a cocoon, so to speak, where they are protected and insulated from that kind of attempt to shape their thinking.
COSTELLO: Tell us, John, what exactly is happening in the conclave. I mean are there passionate speeches? Are they just talking quietly among themselves?
ALLEN: Well, I remember when I wrote a book on the subject some years ago. I went to interview a cardinal who, at that time, was the only man alive who had taken part in three conclaves. And that was exactly the question I asked him. I said this must be an electric environment where, you know, all kinds of conversations and debates are going on. And he said, you know, actually, if you could sit in the cardinals and watch this happen, you would be bored to tears, because the truth is that what happens inside the chapel is almost entirely ceremonial.
Remember that casting a ballot, it's not a simply matter of raising your hands as to who you want to vote for. It is a very elaborate process where each cardinal has to write the name on a piece of paper, fold it twice, process ceremonial, swear an oath that he's voting for the man he believes before god ought to be elected, return to his seat. There's a very elaborate counting process and then another process to make sure that first count was accurate. All of that takes an hour or so to unfold. So if you do that twice, that really is a morning's work.
All of the interesting sort of politicking and networking and so forth, by and large, happens outside the Sistine Chapel. As Jim was just describing a moment ago, over lunch, in this case, at the Casa Sanctae Marthae; or in the evenings; or during those walks in the Vatican garden that the cardinals can take now. That's really where the political action is.
COSTELLO: No wonder they need a nap in the afternoon, and a long one, too.
Let's go back down to St. Peter's Square because Alessio Vinci is in among the crowd of people.
Presumably they're still watching the smoke coming from this chimney, Alessio.
VINCI: That is correct, Carol. They are still watching, although some are already leaving the square. Although most of the people here are now to be putting themselves in line to be able to get inside the St. Peter's Basilica, where, of course, the body of Pope John Paul II is buried.
Yes, I would say there's a little bit of a disappointment on the one side. On the other side, you know, the people here realize that it will take, perhaps, a few days before a conclusive vote can be reached.
Looking back at history, I mean one of the, you know, the shortest conclave was two days and three ballots. That would mean that we would have a pope by the first voting probably tonight. And the longest one was actually five days and 14 ballots. But no conclave over the last century has gone over five days. So certainly people here knowing a little bit about it, perhaps, preparing themselves before coming here down in the square. They know that it will take a few days more to get a pope.
And I sense that having been here last night, the crowd was far more cheerful, far more anticipation -- there was far more anticipation among the people here. I think now most of the people here now realize that this vote is black and that they're going to have to wait at least another several hours before being able to get a glimpse of the white smoke.
Certainly, of course, there are pilgrims here. There are tourists. There are also a lot of people who want to be here on this historic day for when the pope is elected. And obviously most of them may not be here in Rome throughout the week, and so they want to make sure they're not going to miss it. So they're already, perhaps, making plans as to whether or not they should stay a few extra days or not.
So there's all these things going on in the minds of the people here. But most importantly they just want to be here for when the white smoke comes out.
COSTELLO: I can certainly understand that.
Suspense continues in Rome.
Thanks to Alessio Vinci, our Vatican analyst, John Allen, and our correspondent there, Jim Bittermann.
And we bid adieu to our CNN international audience and return to domestic.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with much more on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It's 6:13 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
It was black, but at first it looked gray. Black smoke did, indeed, rise from the chimney at the Sistine Chapel, indicating cardinals inside have completed another round of voting, but have not elected a pope.
In money news, you may not have noticed, but the government says it cost a little less to fill up last week. The Energy Department's weekly survey found a gallon of regular was down $0.04, to about $2.25.
In culture, the Tribeca Film Festival kicks off in New York with a thriller, "The Interpreter." This is the festival's fourth year. It will run through May 1, with about 250 screenings.
In sports, an Ethiopian wins the men's division of the Boston marathon while a Kenyan becomes the first woman to win the race four times. U.S. Olympian Alan Culpepper was fourth, which was actually the best finish for an American in 18 years -- Chad.
MYERS: For that yesterday, great weather for them, again today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: We want to bring you back to Rome for just a bit.
We're still looking at smoke pouring from the chimney atop the Sistine Chapel. Now, John Allen tells us, our Vatican analyst -- that's John Allen -- he tells us the reason so much gray smoke is pouring from this chimney, they have a lot to burn because these cardinals not only have to burn their ballots, but they also have to burn all of the notes they've taken. And that could be more than 200 sheets of paper, which is probably why this gray-black smoke continues to pour from the chimney.
What this means, in the end, though, they have not decided on a new pope. They're going to lunch right now. They'll take a little nap. They'll be back for the afternoon session and they'll try to vote again.
On with the other news of the morning now.
You've quite possibly never heard a judge issue an order like this. Learn English and take the pill or lose your kid. A judge in Lebanon, Tennessee dished out that advice to a woman from Mexico. He said he was trying to ensure the woman's daughter had a future as an American by issuing his order.
As you might expect, civil rights groups are not especially happy with Wilson County Juvenile Judge Barry Tatum. And while Judge Tatum did not return our calls, David Lubell from the Tennessee Immigration and Refugee Rights Coalition did.
He joins us now live from Nashville.
Good morning, David.
DAVID LUBELL, TENNESSEE IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE RIGHTS COALITION: Good morning.
COSTELLO: OK, let's get this out of the way right now. We're not going to talk specifically about the custody fight underway. The mother is accused of child neglect. We're just talking about the judge's order here.
Tell us what it was and if a judge can issue such an order.
LUBELL: We believe that a judge cannot issue such an order. The order was basically back in October, the judge said to the woman in question that she had six months to learn English at a fourth grade level or she would be at risk of losing her child.
COSTELLO: What was his reasoning for this?
LUBELL: Well, he said that he believes that without being able to communicate with her child and help her in the culture here that she would lose contact and lose the connection with her child.
COSTELLO: I was just wondering how the judge can prove that she knows English at a fourth grade level.
Does he give her some kind of test in court?
LUBELL: Yes, that was the question at issue, because yesterday was the -- was scheduled to be the day of the English test, as it were. The judge, back in October, had said, had listed a series of questions in English that he was going to expect her to be able to answer in English, last -- or yesterday.
COSTELLO: He did back off a bit, but there is a new court session coming up. But I'd like to play devil's advocate for just a moment. This woman doesn't speak English. Her child is two. It's tough to get along in Tennessee when you don't speak English. Isn't she short-changing her child by not teaching him or her to speak English? Couldn't the judge have a point?
LUBELL: Well, it's not about the fact that it's not important to learn English. Certainly immigrants throughout Tennessee are learning English, as they are throughout this country. A recent study by the National Academy of Sciences shows that, you know, over 97 percent of immigrants over time in the United States do learn English. It's about the constitution and you don't want a judge telling someone that the conditionality of having custody of their child is based on whether they learn English.
We used the example of, you know, if someone was to get a job in another country, maybe France, and the French government told that person or that family that they had six months to learn French or they were going to lose their child.
COSTELLO: David Lubell from the Tennessee Immigration and Refugee Rights Coalition.
Thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
We will follow events in Lebanon, Tennessee to see how it turns out for that woman and for, also, Judge Tatum.
Think your SUV gets bad gas mileage? Then maybe you'd prefer driving one of these. Coming up, bigger isn't always better. Sometimes smaller is.
And later, the great debate over stem cells. A leading researcher who appears in a new documentary on the topic will join us later in the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Just to update you once again, the cardinals have voted in Rome. No decision made on a new pope. Thick black smoke poured out that chimney above the Sistine Chapel. Of course, we'll keep you posted, but the cardinals will not meet again until this afternoon.
In our business headlines this morning, Coca-Cola admitting no wrongdoing in the settlement of a two year federal investigation. The world's largest soft drink maker faced accusations of fraud and accounting violations. The probe focused on extra concentrate being shipped to Japanese bottlers during the late 1990s.
You'll soon be able to find Martha Stewart wherever and whenever you need her. The domestic diva has signed a deal with Sirius Satellite Radio. The Martha Stewart channel will also provide a call- in segment starting in September.
And I know, Carrie Lee, you'll be first on the line.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A 24-hour channel. It's a nice, a nice chunk of business for Martha Stewart, certainly. COSTELLO: Oh, it certainly -- she is, she's going to be everywhere. She's going to have a reality show, a radio show.
LEE: I know. Only 24 hours in a day. I don't know how she fits all of this stuff in, but she's certainly not sitting around, that's for sure.
COSTELLO: That's why she's a diva.
LEE: Right.
COSTELLO: Anyway, it's time for our "Business Buzz."
Carrie Lee is here -- welcome.
LEE: Thank you.
We talk about high gas prices oh, at least once a week on this show, right? Well, you think about the Hummer from G.M., a gas guzzling vehicle. Well, G.M. is now revamping the Hummer to make it more fuel efficient. The new Hummer H3 is going to be smaller, more fuel efficient than prior models. The H3 is expected to get 20 miles per gallon. The H2 got about 12 to 13 miles per gallon.
The first H3 rolled off of the assembly line yesterday in Shreveport, Louisiana. Struggling General Motors is hoping the new version will help boost sales. It spent a billion dollars to renovate that Shreveport factory and $100 million on a factory in South Africa. They're hoping to sell the Hummer overseas.
Nearly 100,000 Hummers have been sold in the U.S. since 2000. We'll see if this helps the company.
But I'll tell you, Carol, General Motors, in terms of the company, not in very good shape. The shares are down about 36 percent so far this year alone. They are reporting profits this morning. Wall Street expecting a pretty big loss versus a profit a year ago. So they need to do something to get this business going again.
COSTELLO: Actually, the new Hummer looks pretty nice.
LEE: It does. It's a little bit smaller, not quite as ostentatious.
COSTELLO: Gargantuan.
LEE: Yes. So we'll see how they do.
COSTELLO: And 20 miles per gallon isn't bad.
LEE: It's not bad. I think it's in line with other SUVs, or this type of vehicle, this size type of vehicle.
COSTELLO: Finally. They got smarter.
LEE: Yes. COSTELLO: They should have done that in the first place, though.
LEE: We'll see how they do.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
LEE: OK.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Carrie Lee.
Coming up on DAYBREAK, what have we learned in 10 years? In four? I'll speak with two survivors from two different cities with very similar stories of looking past a tragedy.
And as the Catholic community awaits the naming of the next leader, we take a look at one issue the new pope will surely have to address -- stem cell research.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We've been waiting for the sign all morning long and it came. Black smoke pouring from the chimney over the Sistine Chapel, which means the cardinals came to no conclusion as to who the new pope will be. Thousands of people in St. Peter's Square have been watching the chimney, too, over the Sistine Chapel.
CNN's Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us now from Vatican City -- hello, Alessio.
VINCI: Hello, Carol.
Yes (AUDIO GAP) all morning waiting for the puff of smoke emerging from the top of the Sistine Chapel. And, again, as you just mentioned, it was black smoke, meaning that there is no pope. And some of the people we talked to, there is a bit of (AUDIO GAP) most of them telling us they will be back tonight.
Let me show you a little bit around the square. Not too many people anymore, although still you see a fairly sizeable crowd, because most of them now are trying to get into St. Peter's Basilica, where the body of the pope is buried, of course. And that is they want to have the opportunity, perhaps, to pay their last respects to the tomb of Pope John Paul II while his successor is being selected at the Sistine Chapel.
The cardinals now, of course, are going to take a recess. They're taking a break. They're going to go back inside the Sanctae Marthae, which is sort of a hotel like residence, still inside the Vatican. That is where they're going to have lunch, take a rest, perhaps, even talk among themselves about these past two votes of this morning. And then they re -- again, reenter the Sistine Chapel at around 4:00 p.m. local time. That's about three-and-a-half hours from now. And then they will vote twice more today. And then if there is no conclusive vote, we'll see again black smoke from the chimney up there in St. Peter's -- in the Sistine Chapel -- at around 7:00 p.m. local time, about 1:00 p.m. Eastern time -- Carol. COSTELLO: Enough said.
Alessio Vinci live from the Vatican this morning.
Thank you.
It is 6:26 Eastern.
Now in the news, we could learn more details today on those brutal BTK serial killings. Dennis Rader, the man accused of being the BTK killer, is scheduled to be arraigned. Rader could still waive the hearing and enter a plea instead.
The number of military personnel wounded in Iraq tops more than 10,000. They've lost limbs and abilities. This afternoon, they'll tell a Senate committee how they're adjusting to life back at home.
Prosecutors will get another chance to question the accuser's mother in the Michael Jackson trial. In four days of testimony, she's rambled, she's argued and she's ignored the judge's request to answer only the questions asked.
Just when you thought the steroid scandal had vanished, a deal could be in the works between major league baseball and Congress. The "New York Times" reporting Commissioner Bud Selig is considering hiring a special investigator if Congress puts its investigation on hold.
To the Forecast Center now and Chad -- good morning.
MYERS: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Here's a look at the memorial events on today's Oklahoma City anniversary.
At 9:02 a.m. Central time, 168 seconds of silence, one second for each victim. Former President Bill Clinton is among the speakers expected to address the crowd. The names of the victims will be read by the children impacted by the tragedy.
Of course, the memories of that awful day in 1995 linger. For 10 years, people there have recovered, thrived and are asking tough questions about domestic terrorism and who deserves what after the unthinkable happens.
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