Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Pope Benedict XVI Grasps Keys of St. Peter; Ag Jobs Bill Setback; 1.5 Million Credit Card Nos. Stolen from DSW
Aired April 19, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, we'll be reporting on the election of Pope Benedict XVI, a hard-line defender of traditional Catholic doctrine. What does his election mean for Catholics? We'll have complete coverage from the Vatican. I'll also be joined by one of this country's leading authorities on the Catholic Church.
Also tonight, illegal alien giveaway: U.S. senators indicate strong support for a measure that would legalize nearly a million illegal aliens in this country. Are senators putting the interests of the farm lobby ahead of border security? My guest tonight, a senator who wants lawmakers to delay consideration of tighter immigration laws.
And the escalating crisis over China's unfair trade policies. Beijing is manipulating its currency, threatening our economy and even our national security. Tonight I'll be talking with two leading congressmen about a bipartisan effort to win China's unfair trade practices.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate, and opinion, TONIGHT.
DOBBS: Good evening. Tonight the Catholic Church has a new leader, Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany. He is one of the most hard-line figures in the Catholic Church, and for the past quarter century, Cardinal Ratzinger, the strict defender of Catholic orthodoxy.
The new pontiff today declared he is only a simple, humble worker. Tonight President Bush congratulated Pope Benedict, calling him a man of great wisdom and knowledge. We begin our coverage in Vatican City with John Allen -- John.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: Your thoughts, if you will, on this new pope coming in a quick election, four votes over the course of two days. Not many have been chosen sooner.
ALLEN: No, in fact, it is tied to second place in the most rapid conclave of the 20th and now 21st Century. Obviously the cardinals had some sense of what they wanted going in and didn't take terribly long in settling upon their man. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, is to some extent an exception to the election of popes in that quite often the man who was elected enters that role as something of a question mark. We often don't know much about him or where he might go.
Ratzinger, on the other hand, is a man with a very long public track record, as you alluded to, one of a kind of tenacious defense of the traditional doctrines of the church. These are positions that are enormously energizing to conservatives within the church who see him as a man who had the courage to stand for truth in a time of doubt and dissent, especially after the Second Vatican Council in the mid '60s.
The liberal wing of the church, of course, would see him as something of a love-to-hate figure, a man who has resisted many of the reforms that they would like to see happen. And so it will be very interesting, Lou, to watch him negotiate this transition from being the doctrinal policeman of the church to now having to be everyone's pope, including those who might not necessarily agree with him on certain issues.
It will be interesting to see him try to strike the notes of conciliation and reassurance that no doubt will be part of his initial challenges.
DOBBS: Why would we assume that there would be a tone of conciliation, if you will, given his doctrinal background and positions on everything from women in the church to the role of homosexuals and their, if you will, position within the church, to the issue of women in the clergy, the idea of the time when, particularly in the United States, the Catholic clergy is beset by an aging workforce, if you will, and very few young recruits?
ALLEN: Well, let's make no mistake about it. I don't think there's going to be much give on the doctrinal positions that you just ticked off, that is, anyone who is thinking that Joseph Ratzinger might be open to the ordination of women, for example, or to revision of church teaching on issues of sexual morality or to redefining the nature of the Catholic priesthood I think is going to be sorely disappointed.
This is a man who believes that above all the church must resist the temptation to assimilate to modern secular culture. You heard, of course, that stirring and remarkably blunt homily he gave at the final Mass before the cardinals went into conclave, ticking off a whole series of threats the church had to resist: Marxism; liberalism and so on.
But at the same time, I think Pope Benedict is aware that he has to be a universal pastor. That is, not simply the leader of one faction in the church but the leader of the entire church. And that necessarily is going to mean that even if he's not going to change those positions, I suspect he will try to change the tone, and try to make his initial messages one of optimism and openness and hope as opposed to defensiveness and the need to bunker down against the hostile world.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, John, for a couple of other considerations on your part. Among them, the fact that Joseph Ratzinger was the cardinal to beat, if you will, going into the conclave. And at the same time great talk and, as you suggest, even hope that the Vatican might reach beyond, if you will, the predictive, that is Europe itself move to one of the cardinals from Africa or particularly South America. What does all of this portend, what does it mean?
ALLEN: Well, first of all, it should be noted that Ratzinger is now the second consecutive non-Italian pope, which probably means that the Italian monopoly on the papacy has been shattered forever. That doesn't mean future popes couldn't be Italians. But it means the days in which they had some kind of built-in advantage probably are over. And in that sense, it does mean that there's a greater openness to the whole universality of Roman Catholicism. It becomes more thinkable, I suppose to some extent, that a future pope could come, for example, from the global south, as you just indicated.
I do think it will be important to see the extent to which Ratzinger continues to do what his predecessors Paul VI and John Paul II both did, which is try to universalize not only the College of Cardinals, but also the College of Bishop, and particularly senior leadership positions in the Vatican. Let's not forget that one of the first things he's going to do as pope undoubtedly is reconfirm the people who hold Vatican offices, but over relatively short order he'll be bringing in his own team. Certainly it will be interesting to see how many members of that team would come from places such as Brazil, places such as Indonesia, the Philippines, Nigeria, places which will increasingly be the centers of energy in the church.
DOBBS: John Allen from Vatican City, thank you very much. My next guest says the election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as pope shows the Catholic Church will stay on the course set by Pope John Paul II. Father John Paris is professor at Boston College, joining us tonight from Cleveland, Ohio.
Father, good to have you with us.
REV. JOHN PARIS, BOSTON COLLEGE: Good to be back, Lou.
DOBBS: Your thoughts on the new pope, Pontiff Benedict XVI.
PARIS: Well, there is no surprise. He was one of two cardinals out of 115 who had not been selected by John Paul II, so you knew that there was going to be a very conservative flavor to the next pope, whomever he would be. And Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was quite conservative and so filled that bill very well.
DOBBS: Conservative, doctrinaire, if you will. Is there any suggestion that his ascendancy to the papacy will mean that now Pope Benedict XVI will be quite a different fellow than the Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany?
PARIS: It's always hard to predict exactly how somebody -- the same as with the president, how he will appear -- or a Supreme Court justice, how he will develop once he's on the bench and now has responsibility for the entire church as opposed to some doctrinal office that was his charge when he was a cardinal.
But at 78 it's very difficult to believe that this man is going to change substantially from the man that we have known and whom we've seen over the past 20 years in Rome.
DOBBS: What is your thinking tonight, and admittedly it is early to have the broadest and most profound of thoughts, but what is your best thought about the impact of Pope Benedict XVI on American Catholics?
PARIS: Well, some of them are reaching into the pantry of Prozac at the moment. Americans, I think, by and large, believe much more in a more open, more democratic, more participatory, more collegial sort of a church than does Cardinal Ratzinger. And I suspect that segment of the American population will be quite disappointed with this election.
Alternatively, all Catholics believe fundamentally that the truths of the church are truths and that they are not subject to whim or to secularism or to vote. So it's a tension there, but by and large the more liberal American church, and it is much more liberal than the church universal, would find this to be not what they were expecting.
DOBBS: And your personal thoughts? Your hope -- are you hopeful? Are you personally pleased?
PARIS: I'm always hopeful in the church because I believe that it is not a man but the Holy Spirit, that this is God who is directing this church, and that the church has survived all kinds of things, and perhaps this time is for consolidation of those truths. But this is a church of hope and of faith, and hope is still quite very much alive.
DOBBS: Father John Paris, as always, good to talk with to you, thank you.
PARIS: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next here, illegal alien giveaway, why many U.S. senators seem now prepared to put the interests of agricultural corporations ahead of border security and tighter immigration laws.
And identity theft, another major theft of personal financial information, this one affecting more than a million Americans. We'll have that special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senators tonight unexpectedly delaying a vote on whether to confirm John Bolton as U.N. ambassador. Two leading Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as well as Democrats want more time now to consider Bolton's nomination. Bolton has been facing strong criticism from Democrats and their allies in the media over his character and his record in public service. The committee's vote may now be held sometime next month.
Also on Capitol Hill today, the Senate indicated strong support for the so-called ag jobs bill, a piece of legislation that would legalize nearly a million illegal aliens now working in this country. But there weren't enough votes to ensure the ag jobs bill would remain attached to the supplemental spending bill for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns has the report for us -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Senate said no to attaching sweeping immigration reform to a bill for the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, but at the same time this was, as you said, an important test vote on the issue of opening the door to permanent legal residency and citizenship for immigrant farm workers.
Fifty-three senators voted in favor of going forward on a procedural motion, just seven short of the required 60 votes. The amendment was sponsored by Senator Larry Craig of Idaho. A majority of senators now essentially signaling their interest in his issue, but not today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: Cannot we take a day-and-a-half to solve what Americans believe is the number one problem in our country, or a problem that is in the top three? And that is uncontrolled immigration and uncontrolled borders. That's what we're trying to do with a segment of our economy and a segment of our workforce that works dominantly in agriculture, is to control it, shape it, identify it and stop the flood that's coming across our borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Also of interest today, a vote on a provision that would have allowed only temporary legal status for immigrant workers in the country. One immigration proposal that did get through, one offered by Senator Barbara Mikulski of Maryland that essentially would allow more immigrant farm workers, visas and a waiver on visas, those who work particularly in the seafood industry and at resorts.
The bottom line on all of this, people on both sides on Capitol Hill suggesting there is now more momentum to talk about comprehensive immigration reform sometime in this Congress -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right. And what happens now in terms of those two pieces of legislation, as you pointed out, Senator Chambliss' bill not moving ahead, and cloture failing for Senator Craig's legislation, is this momentum or is this simply the appearance of support without action?
JOHNS: Well, the suggestion is that, particularly on the Craig language, that somehow, some way, when Senators McCain and Kennedy come forward with their comprehensive immigration reform bill, they will be able to massage the language and at least address this issue in some form, it is not clear what kind of language would be on the bill with regard to that, Lou.
So there's always that possibility that it comes back in another form when the bigger bill actually starts being debated on Capitol Hill.
DOBBS: Joe Johns, reporting from Capitol Hill. Thank you, Joe.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you think the ag jobs bill is basically a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We tried to put that as directly as we could, that question. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Now our special report on the invasion of illegal aliens into this country and its impact on our nation's courts. The subject of this week's coverage: the number of immigration cases that are appealed in this country has simply exploded over the past several years. And now our federal appellate courts are being simply overwhelmed.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of immigration appeals filed in the United States courts of appeals totaled more than 10,000 last year.
CHIEF JUDGE MARY SCHROEDER, 9TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS: Our immigration caseload has gone up approximately 500 percent in the last four years. So that it used to be a very, very small percentage of our docket, it is now pushing almost 40 percent of our total number of appeals in the 9th Circuit.
TUCKER: The numbers have caught everyone off-guard, especially the 2nd and the 9th Circuit Courts of Appeals, which together handle about 80 percent of the caseload. The surge of cases began when the Board of Immigration Appeals cleared its backlog of cases, dumping thousands of cases into the federal appeals court system.
CHIEF JUDGE JOHN WALKER, 2ND CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS: We thought initially in the first couple of years that it was a bubble that was coming through. That it was just a backlog that was going to be cleared. But now it turns out that we're getting these cases on a more regular basis at the rate of about 2,500 a year.
TUCKER: The appellate courts' problems stem from a streamlining of the Board of Immigration Appeals by then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2002. The attorney general wanted the immigration judges to expedite their cases, clear the backlog. As part of that process, the size of the board was trimmed from 23 to 11.
STEVE LEGOMSKI, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: He announced that from now on in the vast majority of cases, the board would decide in one- member rather than three-member decisions and they were forbidden to issue an opinion explaining their reasons for doing so. So as a result, you have some BIA members who are now deciding as many as 50 cases per day, some of them quite factually complicated.
TUCKER: Sounds productive, but as a result, immigration court rulings, which were once appealed at a rate of 5 percent, are now appealed at a rate of 25 percent to federal appeals courts. (END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Immigration cases now make up so much of the court calendar that they are affecting other cases. In the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, for example, the time taken to complete a typical case has risen from one year, Lou, to a year-and-a-half.
DOBBS: A year-and-a-half?
TUCKER: Yes.
DOBBS: Five hundred percent increase over the past four years?
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: How in the world can the system sustain with that kind of crushing burden?
TUCKER: Well, as these two chief judges are saying, they need the resources. They obviously want to deal with it. But they are short on the resources, current funding doesn't allow for adequate staffing to deal with what they see coming from the immigration courts.
DOBBS: And this, of course, having a detrimental effect on every other part of the appellate process for others.
TUCKER: If you have a civil case in an appeals court, you are delayed. Your criminal case takes priority, but the civil cases all back up.
DOBBS: Incredible. You wonder what it's going to take. Bill Tucker, thank you.
Coming up next, identity crisis. A popular retail chain says thieves have now stolen more than a million of its credit card numbers from what the company thought were secure computer files. Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated interest, it looks like it is becoming an epidemic. Our special report is next.
And then, holding China accountable for years of unfair trade practices. Two congressmen will join us with their new plan to stop all of that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A barrage of criticism tonight for the Transportation Security Administration, the people who protect all of us, of course, at the airports around the country. That agency is now under fire for waste and abuse and even potentially fraud. The TSA is also being accused of failing to improve security at our airports over the past three-and-a-half years since September 11th.
Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two-and-a-half years after airport screeners were federalized, there appears to be little improvement in their performance.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: It's absolutely not acceptable.
MESERVE: Undercover testers tried apparently with some success to get weapons through security checkpoints on their bodies or in their carry-ons. They also checked baggage contaminated with explosive residue to see if it would be detected.
A declassified report from the Department of Homeland Security inspector general concludes there has been a lack of improvement since an audit nearly two years ago.
ERVIN: We have spent millions of dollars, arguably billions of dollars since 9/11 to make aviation security as a whole much safer. And we have relatively little to show for it as far as the performance of screeners is concerned.
MESERVE: Outdated technology is a big reason for the poor performance, according to one screener and union leader.
JUSTIN ROONEY, AIRPORT SCREENER: With the technology that we have, we can only do so much. You have 2005 screeners using 1980s equipment.
MESERVE: The inspector's general report and the Transportation Security Administration, which runs the screening program, have reached the same conclusion.
MARK HATFIELD, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMIN.: We recognize that there are limitations in the technology which is why we have $174 million this year dedicated to research and development.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Another report today from the inspector general found fraud and waste around the construction of the TSA's operation center. Possibly the most egregious example: a TSA employee who purchased half a million dollars' worth of silk flowers and artwork from a tool company with which he had a previous relationship. Invoices were falsified. The tool company received more than $83,000 in overpayments. And after resigning his job with the TSA, the employee started a new business with the owners of the tool company. TSA says the matter has been turned over to the Justice Department for possible prosecution -- Lou.
DOBBS: So massive negligence, malfeasance, outright absurd management, it sounds like also somebody should be considering possibly an investigation putting somebody in jail, is that about the sum of it?
MESERVE: Well, I think that individual -- that one individual who I just cited, is at risk of that. That appears to be the only prosecution that's imminent from all of this. The TSA insists that it was a fledgling agency at the time this took place. Procurement procedures weren't fully in place, it says they are now. It says it won't happen again.
DOBBS: And what is going to happen at TSA, Jeanne? This is an organization within the massive Homeland Security Department which everyone now acknowledges is being neither well-run nor coordinated, and now with the TSA responsible for the safety of everyone flying, what in the world are they going to do?
MESERVE: Well, that's a real question. We do know that the new secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff, has ordered a top to bottom review of the entire Department of Homeland Security. There has been some press reporting and we've heard it on the grapevine that one of the things possibly under consideration is doing away with TSA and moving its function elsewhere. TSA denies that vehemently. Says it's not going to happen. Time will tell. The review is supposed to be finished at the end of May, beginning of June.
DOBBS: And my personal favorite, Jeanne, is the rumor, if you will, that TSA will be diminished and they'll bring back private security screeners, which was the basis, of course, of creating TSA to begin with.
MESERVE: Well, John Mica, head of the Aviation Subcommittee up on the Hill, addressed that issue today, referring to the latest report about screeners, and one that's coming out Friday from the General Accounting Office. He claims that in that GAO report that the private screeners performed better than the federal screeners. What he is advocating is a return to private screeners but under federal supervision. That would be different than it was before 9/11. At that point it was the airlines that ran the screening program.
DOBBS: So in other words, the people who can't run TSA, they would be supervising the people who were responsible for the terrorists of September 11th. This sounds like a wonderful concept, Jeanne. Jeanne Meserve, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
The theft of personal financial information in this country is nothing less now than an epidemic. And it is getting worse seemingly every day. The latest company to report a major loss of your personal financial information is the shoe firm DSW. It says thieves have stolen information on nearly 1.5 million of its credit card customers. That's 10 times more than the original estimate.
Christine Romans is here with the disturbing report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, unbelievably it's come down to this. Buying a pair of shoes could put you at risk for identity theft.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): As DSW customers have learned, your personal information is available for the picking by identity thieves. BETSY BRODER, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION: We know that there are criminals out there, and that this information is a real honey pot for them. With your Social Security number, date of birth, and name, they can open up new accounts in your name, they can drain your existing accounts.
ROMANS: Your data is available from insecure databases of information brokers and from retailers like DSW. In fact it is probably held in thousands of databases all over the world.
LINDA FOLEY, IDENTITY THEFT RESOURCE CENTER: The reality is that most of our information is in the hands of the business world, that's the main repository of our information.
ROMANS: And the business world is having a hard time holding onto it. Ameritrade says it may have lost account information for 200,000 people when a tape full of backup data disappeared. From Lexis-Nexis, thieves stole names, addresses, Social Security and driver's license numbers of 310,000 Americans. In February, at ChoicePoint, thieves used fake businesses to buy personal information of 145,000 people.
The Federal Trade Commission says almost 10 million Americans are the victim of such theft every year, spending almost 300 million hours sorting it out at a cost to the victims and to business of almost $50 billion.
It's staggering, and as more businesses rely on digital information and send it overseas, security experts expect more breaches ahead.
JEFF MOSS, BLACK HAT, INC.: If it is cheaper and faster to outsource this information to datacenters in India or China, that's what they do. And if the people who are in charge of this outsourcing don't know enough to ask for a review of security procedures, then that means all of us are at a greater risk.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: There are a couple of things you can do. You can make sure you don't carry your Social Security card in your purse or your wallet. You can also make sure that your mailbox is locked, nobody can get your mail.
But those are just the things that you and I can do. All of that sensitive information that was already out there, other people already have it in thousands of places all over the world.
DOBBS: I want somebody to tell me one more time that outsourcing is good for America, as all of this information is being distributed around the world. And the individual has no recourse here. Can the individual do anything about this?
ROMANS: There are a couple of class actions cases moving through there. But you have you to prove negligence and some of the lawyers we talked to it's kind of hard to prove negligence because a lot of these firms will just blame it on whoever is the company they have that's holding their data.
DOBBS: The companies that have been outsourced to.
ROMANS: Of course.
DOBBS: And of course, I guess it's not negligence, if it becomes an industry standard that they simply provide your information to every identity theft around the world. An amazing story. Christine Romans, thank you.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, China's unfair trade practices or the United States unwise trade practices. I'll be joined by two Congressman who will tell us why their new legislation will pressure China to stop it's unfair trade practices.
And then the Senate battle over a bill that would stop illegal aliens from obtaining driver's licenses. One senator will be here to tell us why he says the Senate can afford to wait to pass the real I.D. Act.
Then, a popular new hot line for reporting suspected illegal aliens. Yes, there is one. And it is helping the government actually track down illegal aliens, including my goodness some criminals. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As we've reported here, much of this countries exploding trade deficit with China is a direct result of China's unfair trading practices, and our often unwise trade practices. My next guest are demanding action against one of China's practices, it's manipulation and undervaluation of its currency. House Arms Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter and Congressman Tim Ryan have written and introduced the China Currency Act, and they join us tonight from Capital.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), HOUSE ARMS SERVICE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Good to be with you.
REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: Good to be here.
DOBBS: Let me put this question forward first, precisely how would your legislation deal, and if may, Congressman Ryan, I'll start with you, deal with the pegging of the dollar to the renmindbi, the Chinese currency.
RYAN: Well, basicly, says that any exchange rate manipulation, equals an export subsidy, which we want to clarify and make law into the United States of America, so, Chinese -- the Chinese government can be punished for that. Right now currency manipulation is not seen as an export subsidy, and it should be just as much as subsidy slave labor or anything else. DOBBS: One might go to that level Congressman Ryan, as you point out, basicly across much of China, the labor there in terms of the wages, it's treatment, conditions, and protections as laborers as we understand it, is effectively is slave labor. Is that -- would that not be considered a subsidy as well?
RYAN: Well, were having trouble, you know, figuring out whether that is or not. I would think it would be. But this legislation just focuses on the currency manipulation. You know, there's a lot of different trade issues you talk about a lot, and I'm sure Duncan and I maybe even disagree on some of those. But what we should be able to agree on is that the Chinese are cheating. And we need to agree in a bipartisan way, and fix the problem.
DOBBS: And you're legislation Mr. Chairman, it will punish the Chinese in what fashion?
HUNTER: Well, what it does, and I've joined Tim's legislation, because this legislation is something that hopefully will take away this massive trade surplus that the Chinese enjoy over the U.S. right now. They're using those hard dollars, Lou, to buy -- to buy systems like the Sovremenny-class Missile Destroyer from the Russians. These are ships that were designed to kill American aircraft carriers. In the old days they couldn't afford them because the Russians wouldn't take IOUs. Now they pay them with American collars.
And what this would do is allow -- is allow an aggrieved party to go to the ITC -- the International Trade Commission say, listen, the Chinese are engaged in an unfair subsidy devaluing your currency artificially is an unfair subsidy. And they could at that point -- they could at that point ask for sanctions against the Chinese just as they could under any other type of subsidy. What I'm worried about if those sunburn missiles that are presently on the Sovremenny-class missile cruisers designed to kill American aircraft carriers, and the sailors that are on them. The new MiG fighter production that the Chinese is buying with American dollars from the Russians. These are very high performance aircraft. The MiG 27s and MiG 30s that are going to be coming online.
So, Russia is -- China is arming, and the sad thing is they're arming in a way that will offset the American fleet. And they are doing it with American dollars.
DOBBS: And Congressman Ryan, your legislation for the first time would, at least, introduce the concept, that interest that Duncan Hunter holds so closely to his heart, as chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, introduce a role for the secretary of Defense and in the -- and link national security to trade issues, correct?
RYAN: Absolutely. I think it needs to be a component of this legislation. Listen, we're losing so much manufacturing, all over the United States. Thousands of jobs and that hurts economically. But what we're really concerned with is the fact that we're losing our defense industrial base. We need to be able to at the very least supply our own military. You may agree with free trade and the concept that, hey, let the dollars go where they may, and let the lowest producer win. But we can't afford to...
DOBBS: Let me be clear, Congressman, I absolutely do not agree with what we're calling free trade.
HUNTER: You are talking to Lou Dobbs here.
RYAN: I know you. I'm sure some of your audience, maybe, very few. But the bottom line is even if you agree with that philosophy, you can agree with the fact that we shouldn't be able to at least supply our own military. And that's how dangerously close we're getting. And that's why Chairman Hunter and I are working on this together.
DOBBS: Well, that is outstanding. And I think that you're both to be complimented, if I may say in my opinion, for drawing a clear and absolutely concise link between what is currency manipulation and the result which is to subsidize trade and exports. It is so straightforward. I mean, you're going to alarm your colleagues in Congress with that kind of clear thinking and straightforward approach. Aren't you concerned, Chairman Hunter?
HUNTER: Well, you know, one thing about the Chinese, Lou, is they don't sugar coat things. And they don't -- they're not very subtle about their positions. They basically laid out a strategy which counts on currency manipulation to accumulate lots of hard currency. And so it's right out there for everybody to see. And you've lots and lots of economists who say, yes, the manipulation is taking place. So the question is, what does the United States do about it?
And I think focusing more and more on the fact they are buying weapons, weapons which they are aiming at the United States. I mean everybody who has a young man or a young lady or a friend who is in the armed fores of the United States who may at one point have to defend the streets of Taiwan has an interest in the United States not arming China. In fact, that is what we are doing with this massive hard currency surplus that we are giving them.
RYAN: And Lou, the one point, too, I think our colleagues need to understand is this is a WTO compliant bill. Most bills that come forth most people say, you know, they are not WTO compliant, so we just dismiss them automatically. Chairman Hunter and I went to great lengths to make sure that this is compliant with the World Trade Organization rules. And we want to work within that framework in order to get support for this.
DOBBS: And I -- and I want to say simply we thank you for being here. We wish you all of the best of luck in this. I know you both are confident that you're going to have passage of this important legislation. Again, good to have you both here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Lou.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: At the top of the hour, here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360: Inside the Vatican," a special report on Pope Benedict XVI. Anderson Cooper is here now to tell us what is in store. Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
Next on this special edition of "360: Inside the Vatican," a new spiritual leader for more than a billion Catholics around the world, Pope Benedict XVI, a strong-willed conservative. How is he going to lead the Catholic Church? That's what we'll be looking at. We're also going to take a closer look at his past. He was briefly a member of the Hitler Youth. We're going to look at how that may impact his thinking now. We're covering all the angles. That and more, coming up at the top of the hour. Lou?
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Anderson. Thank you very much. "ANDERSON COOPER 360," in about 20 minutes.
Up next, I'll be joined by one of a dozen senators who want the Real I.D. Act on border security and immigration reform taken off the table. He'll be here to tell us why and to discuss a host of other issues. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Arizona's senate has approved a plan to build a new private prison to house thousands of illegal aliens now incarcerated in that state. The new prison would be made -- would be built in Mexico. Supporters say that prison would greatly reduce the cost of holding almost 4,000 illegal aliens in Arizona prisons. Arizona's house passed a similar measure last month. Not surprisingly, Mexico's government, which has done absolutely nothing to stop the invasion of its citizens into Arizona says the prison proposal for its illegal aliens has, quote, "no validity."
Turning now to the United States Senate's failure to consider a bill designed to keep driver's licenses out of the hands of illegal aliens and terrorist. My next guest is one of 12 senators who wrote a letter to Majority Leader Senator Bill Frist, demanding the Senate put off debate on the Real I.D. Act. Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Good to have you with us.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESSEE: Thank you, Lou. Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Senator, what in the world is going on in the Senate? The Republican leadership in both the Senate and the House, assuring Chairman Sensenbrenner, the House Judiciary Committee, that his legislation would be attached to must-pass legislation. You all don't want to touch this?
ALEXANDER: We'll touch it, but nobody I know told anybody that we ought to put a two-month debate on immigration on a bill that ought to be about helmets and armor and support for our troops in Iraq. I think it's disgraceful that the House of Representatives put one piece of an immigration solution on a bill that's designed to support men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan who are risking their lives for us. Now, we ought to deal with illegal immigration and we ought to deal with it now. We all ordered a hearing about it. There are 15 parts to the issue. We ought to act on it this year, but that's the wrong way to do it.
Plus, it's an unfunded federal mandate. It's another big example of Congressmen sitting around a room in Washington, saying, I got an idea. Let's just send it to the states, tell them to do it, and tell them to pay the bill. And, it's a federal -- national I.D. card -- we've never had one minute of debate in the United States Senate about a national I.D. card, which most Americans, I think, would be really skeptical about. So it would be -- it's completely wrong to put it on a bill for troops in Iraq.
DOBBS: Well, if I may, Senator, let me go through some reasoning with you on it and see how absurd an idea it is.
Our men and women in uniform are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and serving their nation there to protect us from terrorism. Our borders in this country permitted 3,000 -- three million, rather, illegal aliens, to cross our borders last year. They are absolutely porous. We don't know who these people are. Sensenbrenner comes forward with legislation, the Real I.D. Bill, to prevent abuses of asylum, to give us an opportunity to know who is in this country, legally and illegally, and who might pose a threat. So, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. But I defer to you. I certainly would not resist your argument.
But when you say an unfunded mandate, would result here, I'm curious because what do you call $150 billion in depressed wages for working men and women who are citizens of the country as a result of illegal immigration?
ALEXANDER: I call, I call...
DOBBS: What do you call $50 billion that states have to pay for social services for incarceration of illegal aliens? For healthcare, for illegal aliens? That sounds like an unfunded mandate of a mammoth dimension.
ALEXANDER: I call it a great big unfunded mandate, Lou, and you are right. I've said it before I was a senator and I've said it ever since I have been here. We should be embarrassed as a Congress that we're not dealing with illegal immigration. It's a federal issue, we're a country committed to the rule of law. We have 10, 15 million people here who are illegally here. We need to pass comprehensive legislation that creates legal status for workers, that decides that we want a national I.D. card, that decides who should get student visas, that decides whether we want to begin to take people who are exceptionally skilled as engineers in here. That's all part after comprehensive package.
We can be faulted for not having done it, but we shouldn't -- we shouldn't be putting it on a bill to troops to Iraq. We shouldn't be sending it to the states and sending them the bill with it. That's not the way to do business. DOBBS: Well, let me ask you this, because, it seems to me to -- if I may say, and you know, I'm paid to be somewhat skeptical and I certainly am that sometimes and I'm sure you are of me, as we look at one another in our respective roles. But the fact of the matter is, this seems like a convenient way in which to push the issue of real reform to the side again, that is, the Real I.D. Act. Will you support that on its own, Senator?
ALEXANDER: No, the answer is no, I would not, for the reasons I said. This would be like somebody running into your desk, here in the middle of the show, and saying Lou, here's a contract, sign it. I think would you probably say, wait a minute, I would like to read it before I sign it. I mean, this, this, this...
DOBBS: Nearly every time, Senator.
ALEXANDER: The substance -- the substance of the bill would say, to the states, you got 190 million driver's licenses. You need -- you would need to turn the driver's licenses examiners into CIA agents. These are people who are trained to take your picture and to tell you whether you can parallel park. You are asking them to verify your utility bill and decide whether you are an al-Qaeda agent. I think if the federal government wants to create a federal I.D. card, we ought to do it, and we ought -- now, we took a step on that last year when we passed the intelligence bill. And we did take steps to create more secure driver's licenses and we have -- and that's going on right now, and the Real I.D. would repeal that. So it's a step backward in that sense.
DOBBS: Well, Senator, if I may say, your hyperbole about the CIA agents, in residence at DMV departments around the country is an attractive one. If I may point out, it really doesn't become a national identification bill, but does require proof of citizenship in order to have a driver's license. That doesn't seem to be too daunting a task for anyone, even in federal government. But, Senator, we're out of time. I've got to ask you to come back soon and we can discuss this further. I hope you will.
ALEXANDER: I'd love to. I know you feel strongly about it. I thank you for the invitation.
DOBBS: Senator Lamar Alexander. Good to have you with us.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll on a proposal that would give legal status to as many as a million illegal aliens in this country, the so-called Ag-jobs Bill. Do you think the Ag-Jobs Bill is simply a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests? Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up next.
How average American citizens are helping catch illegal aliens, again, with their telephone, and it has nothing to do with the Minuteman Project. That's also working. We'll have the report next. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The thousands of Minuteman volunteers along our southern border are not the only Americans helping our federal government enforce immigration laws, as it turns out. The number of Americans now reporting illegal aliens to national and local telephone hotlines is soaring. Casey Wian has the report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the command center for the Department of Homeland Security's tip line where callers can report suspected violations of immigration and customs laws. Here, operators gather information about a wide range of crimes and criminals, but most involve illegal aliens, including the nation's most wanted fugitive criminal aliens and most wanted human smugglers.
Just over halfway into fiscal year 2005, the tip line, 866-DHS-2- ICE has received more than 46,000 calls. That's more than triple the previous year's pace.
In a statement, Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security Michael Garcia said "alert citizens using the tip line are making significant contributions to homeland security."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) communications.
WIAN: In the backyard of Arizona's Minuteman Project, the Border Patrol's Tucson sector recently began promoting its citizen tip line, with giant billboards and the phone number on agent vehicles. This month, the operators have received 1,200 tips, double the previous month's total.
MICHAEL NICLEY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: The citizen calls that we get really are critical to us doing our job. Just last week, we got a citizen call about a suspicious activity at a house. We sent our agents over. We arrested 45 people -- one who was wanted for multiple counts of child molestation.
When recently last month, the country of Mexico had six violent felons escape from one of their prisons -- they were wanted for murder, assault, kidnapping, narcotics trafficking -- a citizen call led to the discovery of two of those people by our agents.
WIAN: Nicley plans even more promotion of his citizen tip line through broadcast public service announcements, and he believes it could be expanded to all 20 Border Patrol sectors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Homeland Security Department officials, both local and national, say the outpouring of citizen calls is a result of their efforts to promote the hotlines. They say it has nothing to do with the success of the Minuteman Project. And so far we haven't heard the president call citizens who report illegal aliens by phone vigilantes, Lou. DOBBS: I think it's important that you said not yet. But we should point out again, those billboards and that hotline didn't go up until the Minutemen made their presence felt on the southern border. Correct?
WIAN: Well, the hotline in Arizona did -- was in existence before the Minuteman Project began. They've started putting up the billboards before the Minuteman Project officially began, but Border Patrol officials were certainly aware that the Minutemen were coming, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me try that again. They put them up, what, two weeks before the project started?
WIAN: About six weeks.
DOBBS: Six weeks. All right.
WIAN: Yeah.
DOBBS: I want to get those absolutely accurate.
Casey Wian, thank you very much. And we'll see if those citizen -- citizens using the phones are also called vigilantes. Thank you, sir.
We reported last night here that "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" ran an editorial calling this broadcast a forum for, quote, "nativists bashing illegal immigration." We do that here, by the way, we do bash illegal immigration. As the saying goes, what don't they understand about illegal?
Today we invited the newspaper's editorial page editor and the author of the editorial, Cynthia Tucker, to appear on this broadcast to discuss their views. "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" said Ms. Tucker was unavailable to join us tonight. We hope that she or anyone else from the paper's editorial board will soon join us in the very near future.
Taking a look now at your thoughts. Arthur Wilson in Henderson, Nevada: "Try to get further than 21 miles into Mexico and you can't, because it's patrolled by their self-defense force. Pay the Mexican army half of what we allot the Border Patrol, and believe me, no one will get out." That may be the most original idea I've heard yet on illegal immigration control.
From a viewer who asked not to be identified because he lives in Guadalajara, Mexico: "I wish to thank CNN and you for your excellent and constant coverage on illegal immigration. It is comforting to know that you are not intimidated by the politicians nor the corporate lobbies, but see the situation as it is, grave. Please treat my note with confidentiality. I would not like to be declared 'persona non grata' by the Mexican government."
Brian in Weston, Florida -- "Lou, please explain to me: If good fences make good neighbors, why is it that President Bush can't understand what good borders -- that good borders make good neighboring countries? We need a border that works."
And Keoki from Pahoa, Hawaii -- "Lou, I think it might be time to be honest and admit that our Constitution must be amended. We need to realize first and foremost that this is a country for the corporations and by the corporations."
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you would like, to receive our e-mail newsletter, sign up on loudobbs.com.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. We'll tell you about yesterday's poll, and we'll have a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: First, the results of last night's poll, which we didn't have time last night to give you. The question was: Do you believe the impact of excessive illegal immigration is a legitimate environmental concern? Ninety-one percent of you said it certainly is.
Now, the results of tonight's poll: 97 percent of you said the ag jobs bill is basically a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests; 3 percent think it's not. Note, Washington, it ain't selling.
Thanks for being with us. Join us here tomorrow for our special report, "Broken Borders." The appellate court with jurisdiction over the borders inundated. Most of them, however, aren't from Mexico. Be with us for that special report, and a great deal more. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Lou, thanks very much.
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 19, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, we'll be reporting on the election of Pope Benedict XVI, a hard-line defender of traditional Catholic doctrine. What does his election mean for Catholics? We'll have complete coverage from the Vatican. I'll also be joined by one of this country's leading authorities on the Catholic Church.
Also tonight, illegal alien giveaway: U.S. senators indicate strong support for a measure that would legalize nearly a million illegal aliens in this country. Are senators putting the interests of the farm lobby ahead of border security? My guest tonight, a senator who wants lawmakers to delay consideration of tighter immigration laws.
And the escalating crisis over China's unfair trade policies. Beijing is manipulating its currency, threatening our economy and even our national security. Tonight I'll be talking with two leading congressmen about a bipartisan effort to win China's unfair trade practices.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate, and opinion, TONIGHT.
DOBBS: Good evening. Tonight the Catholic Church has a new leader, Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany. He is one of the most hard-line figures in the Catholic Church, and for the past quarter century, Cardinal Ratzinger, the strict defender of Catholic orthodoxy.
The new pontiff today declared he is only a simple, humble worker. Tonight President Bush congratulated Pope Benedict, calling him a man of great wisdom and knowledge. We begin our coverage in Vatican City with John Allen -- John.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: Your thoughts, if you will, on this new pope coming in a quick election, four votes over the course of two days. Not many have been chosen sooner.
ALLEN: No, in fact, it is tied to second place in the most rapid conclave of the 20th and now 21st Century. Obviously the cardinals had some sense of what they wanted going in and didn't take terribly long in settling upon their man. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, is to some extent an exception to the election of popes in that quite often the man who was elected enters that role as something of a question mark. We often don't know much about him or where he might go.
Ratzinger, on the other hand, is a man with a very long public track record, as you alluded to, one of a kind of tenacious defense of the traditional doctrines of the church. These are positions that are enormously energizing to conservatives within the church who see him as a man who had the courage to stand for truth in a time of doubt and dissent, especially after the Second Vatican Council in the mid '60s.
The liberal wing of the church, of course, would see him as something of a love-to-hate figure, a man who has resisted many of the reforms that they would like to see happen. And so it will be very interesting, Lou, to watch him negotiate this transition from being the doctrinal policeman of the church to now having to be everyone's pope, including those who might not necessarily agree with him on certain issues.
It will be interesting to see him try to strike the notes of conciliation and reassurance that no doubt will be part of his initial challenges.
DOBBS: Why would we assume that there would be a tone of conciliation, if you will, given his doctrinal background and positions on everything from women in the church to the role of homosexuals and their, if you will, position within the church, to the issue of women in the clergy, the idea of the time when, particularly in the United States, the Catholic clergy is beset by an aging workforce, if you will, and very few young recruits?
ALLEN: Well, let's make no mistake about it. I don't think there's going to be much give on the doctrinal positions that you just ticked off, that is, anyone who is thinking that Joseph Ratzinger might be open to the ordination of women, for example, or to revision of church teaching on issues of sexual morality or to redefining the nature of the Catholic priesthood I think is going to be sorely disappointed.
This is a man who believes that above all the church must resist the temptation to assimilate to modern secular culture. You heard, of course, that stirring and remarkably blunt homily he gave at the final Mass before the cardinals went into conclave, ticking off a whole series of threats the church had to resist: Marxism; liberalism and so on.
But at the same time, I think Pope Benedict is aware that he has to be a universal pastor. That is, not simply the leader of one faction in the church but the leader of the entire church. And that necessarily is going to mean that even if he's not going to change those positions, I suspect he will try to change the tone, and try to make his initial messages one of optimism and openness and hope as opposed to defensiveness and the need to bunker down against the hostile world.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, John, for a couple of other considerations on your part. Among them, the fact that Joseph Ratzinger was the cardinal to beat, if you will, going into the conclave. And at the same time great talk and, as you suggest, even hope that the Vatican might reach beyond, if you will, the predictive, that is Europe itself move to one of the cardinals from Africa or particularly South America. What does all of this portend, what does it mean?
ALLEN: Well, first of all, it should be noted that Ratzinger is now the second consecutive non-Italian pope, which probably means that the Italian monopoly on the papacy has been shattered forever. That doesn't mean future popes couldn't be Italians. But it means the days in which they had some kind of built-in advantage probably are over. And in that sense, it does mean that there's a greater openness to the whole universality of Roman Catholicism. It becomes more thinkable, I suppose to some extent, that a future pope could come, for example, from the global south, as you just indicated.
I do think it will be important to see the extent to which Ratzinger continues to do what his predecessors Paul VI and John Paul II both did, which is try to universalize not only the College of Cardinals, but also the College of Bishop, and particularly senior leadership positions in the Vatican. Let's not forget that one of the first things he's going to do as pope undoubtedly is reconfirm the people who hold Vatican offices, but over relatively short order he'll be bringing in his own team. Certainly it will be interesting to see how many members of that team would come from places such as Brazil, places such as Indonesia, the Philippines, Nigeria, places which will increasingly be the centers of energy in the church.
DOBBS: John Allen from Vatican City, thank you very much. My next guest says the election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as pope shows the Catholic Church will stay on the course set by Pope John Paul II. Father John Paris is professor at Boston College, joining us tonight from Cleveland, Ohio.
Father, good to have you with us.
REV. JOHN PARIS, BOSTON COLLEGE: Good to be back, Lou.
DOBBS: Your thoughts on the new pope, Pontiff Benedict XVI.
PARIS: Well, there is no surprise. He was one of two cardinals out of 115 who had not been selected by John Paul II, so you knew that there was going to be a very conservative flavor to the next pope, whomever he would be. And Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was quite conservative and so filled that bill very well.
DOBBS: Conservative, doctrinaire, if you will. Is there any suggestion that his ascendancy to the papacy will mean that now Pope Benedict XVI will be quite a different fellow than the Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany?
PARIS: It's always hard to predict exactly how somebody -- the same as with the president, how he will appear -- or a Supreme Court justice, how he will develop once he's on the bench and now has responsibility for the entire church as opposed to some doctrinal office that was his charge when he was a cardinal.
But at 78 it's very difficult to believe that this man is going to change substantially from the man that we have known and whom we've seen over the past 20 years in Rome.
DOBBS: What is your thinking tonight, and admittedly it is early to have the broadest and most profound of thoughts, but what is your best thought about the impact of Pope Benedict XVI on American Catholics?
PARIS: Well, some of them are reaching into the pantry of Prozac at the moment. Americans, I think, by and large, believe much more in a more open, more democratic, more participatory, more collegial sort of a church than does Cardinal Ratzinger. And I suspect that segment of the American population will be quite disappointed with this election.
Alternatively, all Catholics believe fundamentally that the truths of the church are truths and that they are not subject to whim or to secularism or to vote. So it's a tension there, but by and large the more liberal American church, and it is much more liberal than the church universal, would find this to be not what they were expecting.
DOBBS: And your personal thoughts? Your hope -- are you hopeful? Are you personally pleased?
PARIS: I'm always hopeful in the church because I believe that it is not a man but the Holy Spirit, that this is God who is directing this church, and that the church has survived all kinds of things, and perhaps this time is for consolidation of those truths. But this is a church of hope and of faith, and hope is still quite very much alive.
DOBBS: Father John Paris, as always, good to talk with to you, thank you.
PARIS: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next here, illegal alien giveaway, why many U.S. senators seem now prepared to put the interests of agricultural corporations ahead of border security and tighter immigration laws.
And identity theft, another major theft of personal financial information, this one affecting more than a million Americans. We'll have that special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senators tonight unexpectedly delaying a vote on whether to confirm John Bolton as U.N. ambassador. Two leading Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as well as Democrats want more time now to consider Bolton's nomination. Bolton has been facing strong criticism from Democrats and their allies in the media over his character and his record in public service. The committee's vote may now be held sometime next month.
Also on Capitol Hill today, the Senate indicated strong support for the so-called ag jobs bill, a piece of legislation that would legalize nearly a million illegal aliens now working in this country. But there weren't enough votes to ensure the ag jobs bill would remain attached to the supplemental spending bill for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns has the report for us -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Senate said no to attaching sweeping immigration reform to a bill for the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, but at the same time this was, as you said, an important test vote on the issue of opening the door to permanent legal residency and citizenship for immigrant farm workers.
Fifty-three senators voted in favor of going forward on a procedural motion, just seven short of the required 60 votes. The amendment was sponsored by Senator Larry Craig of Idaho. A majority of senators now essentially signaling their interest in his issue, but not today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: Cannot we take a day-and-a-half to solve what Americans believe is the number one problem in our country, or a problem that is in the top three? And that is uncontrolled immigration and uncontrolled borders. That's what we're trying to do with a segment of our economy and a segment of our workforce that works dominantly in agriculture, is to control it, shape it, identify it and stop the flood that's coming across our borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Also of interest today, a vote on a provision that would have allowed only temporary legal status for immigrant workers in the country. One immigration proposal that did get through, one offered by Senator Barbara Mikulski of Maryland that essentially would allow more immigrant farm workers, visas and a waiver on visas, those who work particularly in the seafood industry and at resorts.
The bottom line on all of this, people on both sides on Capitol Hill suggesting there is now more momentum to talk about comprehensive immigration reform sometime in this Congress -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right. And what happens now in terms of those two pieces of legislation, as you pointed out, Senator Chambliss' bill not moving ahead, and cloture failing for Senator Craig's legislation, is this momentum or is this simply the appearance of support without action?
JOHNS: Well, the suggestion is that, particularly on the Craig language, that somehow, some way, when Senators McCain and Kennedy come forward with their comprehensive immigration reform bill, they will be able to massage the language and at least address this issue in some form, it is not clear what kind of language would be on the bill with regard to that, Lou.
So there's always that possibility that it comes back in another form when the bigger bill actually starts being debated on Capitol Hill.
DOBBS: Joe Johns, reporting from Capitol Hill. Thank you, Joe.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you think the ag jobs bill is basically a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We tried to put that as directly as we could, that question. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Now our special report on the invasion of illegal aliens into this country and its impact on our nation's courts. The subject of this week's coverage: the number of immigration cases that are appealed in this country has simply exploded over the past several years. And now our federal appellate courts are being simply overwhelmed.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of immigration appeals filed in the United States courts of appeals totaled more than 10,000 last year.
CHIEF JUDGE MARY SCHROEDER, 9TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS: Our immigration caseload has gone up approximately 500 percent in the last four years. So that it used to be a very, very small percentage of our docket, it is now pushing almost 40 percent of our total number of appeals in the 9th Circuit.
TUCKER: The numbers have caught everyone off-guard, especially the 2nd and the 9th Circuit Courts of Appeals, which together handle about 80 percent of the caseload. The surge of cases began when the Board of Immigration Appeals cleared its backlog of cases, dumping thousands of cases into the federal appeals court system.
CHIEF JUDGE JOHN WALKER, 2ND CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS: We thought initially in the first couple of years that it was a bubble that was coming through. That it was just a backlog that was going to be cleared. But now it turns out that we're getting these cases on a more regular basis at the rate of about 2,500 a year.
TUCKER: The appellate courts' problems stem from a streamlining of the Board of Immigration Appeals by then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2002. The attorney general wanted the immigration judges to expedite their cases, clear the backlog. As part of that process, the size of the board was trimmed from 23 to 11.
STEVE LEGOMSKI, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: He announced that from now on in the vast majority of cases, the board would decide in one- member rather than three-member decisions and they were forbidden to issue an opinion explaining their reasons for doing so. So as a result, you have some BIA members who are now deciding as many as 50 cases per day, some of them quite factually complicated.
TUCKER: Sounds productive, but as a result, immigration court rulings, which were once appealed at a rate of 5 percent, are now appealed at a rate of 25 percent to federal appeals courts. (END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Immigration cases now make up so much of the court calendar that they are affecting other cases. In the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, for example, the time taken to complete a typical case has risen from one year, Lou, to a year-and-a-half.
DOBBS: A year-and-a-half?
TUCKER: Yes.
DOBBS: Five hundred percent increase over the past four years?
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: How in the world can the system sustain with that kind of crushing burden?
TUCKER: Well, as these two chief judges are saying, they need the resources. They obviously want to deal with it. But they are short on the resources, current funding doesn't allow for adequate staffing to deal with what they see coming from the immigration courts.
DOBBS: And this, of course, having a detrimental effect on every other part of the appellate process for others.
TUCKER: If you have a civil case in an appeals court, you are delayed. Your criminal case takes priority, but the civil cases all back up.
DOBBS: Incredible. You wonder what it's going to take. Bill Tucker, thank you.
Coming up next, identity crisis. A popular retail chain says thieves have now stolen more than a million of its credit card numbers from what the company thought were secure computer files. Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated interest, it looks like it is becoming an epidemic. Our special report is next.
And then, holding China accountable for years of unfair trade practices. Two congressmen will join us with their new plan to stop all of that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A barrage of criticism tonight for the Transportation Security Administration, the people who protect all of us, of course, at the airports around the country. That agency is now under fire for waste and abuse and even potentially fraud. The TSA is also being accused of failing to improve security at our airports over the past three-and-a-half years since September 11th.
Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two-and-a-half years after airport screeners were federalized, there appears to be little improvement in their performance.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: It's absolutely not acceptable.
MESERVE: Undercover testers tried apparently with some success to get weapons through security checkpoints on their bodies or in their carry-ons. They also checked baggage contaminated with explosive residue to see if it would be detected.
A declassified report from the Department of Homeland Security inspector general concludes there has been a lack of improvement since an audit nearly two years ago.
ERVIN: We have spent millions of dollars, arguably billions of dollars since 9/11 to make aviation security as a whole much safer. And we have relatively little to show for it as far as the performance of screeners is concerned.
MESERVE: Outdated technology is a big reason for the poor performance, according to one screener and union leader.
JUSTIN ROONEY, AIRPORT SCREENER: With the technology that we have, we can only do so much. You have 2005 screeners using 1980s equipment.
MESERVE: The inspector's general report and the Transportation Security Administration, which runs the screening program, have reached the same conclusion.
MARK HATFIELD, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMIN.: We recognize that there are limitations in the technology which is why we have $174 million this year dedicated to research and development.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Another report today from the inspector general found fraud and waste around the construction of the TSA's operation center. Possibly the most egregious example: a TSA employee who purchased half a million dollars' worth of silk flowers and artwork from a tool company with which he had a previous relationship. Invoices were falsified. The tool company received more than $83,000 in overpayments. And after resigning his job with the TSA, the employee started a new business with the owners of the tool company. TSA says the matter has been turned over to the Justice Department for possible prosecution -- Lou.
DOBBS: So massive negligence, malfeasance, outright absurd management, it sounds like also somebody should be considering possibly an investigation putting somebody in jail, is that about the sum of it?
MESERVE: Well, I think that individual -- that one individual who I just cited, is at risk of that. That appears to be the only prosecution that's imminent from all of this. The TSA insists that it was a fledgling agency at the time this took place. Procurement procedures weren't fully in place, it says they are now. It says it won't happen again.
DOBBS: And what is going to happen at TSA, Jeanne? This is an organization within the massive Homeland Security Department which everyone now acknowledges is being neither well-run nor coordinated, and now with the TSA responsible for the safety of everyone flying, what in the world are they going to do?
MESERVE: Well, that's a real question. We do know that the new secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff, has ordered a top to bottom review of the entire Department of Homeland Security. There has been some press reporting and we've heard it on the grapevine that one of the things possibly under consideration is doing away with TSA and moving its function elsewhere. TSA denies that vehemently. Says it's not going to happen. Time will tell. The review is supposed to be finished at the end of May, beginning of June.
DOBBS: And my personal favorite, Jeanne, is the rumor, if you will, that TSA will be diminished and they'll bring back private security screeners, which was the basis, of course, of creating TSA to begin with.
MESERVE: Well, John Mica, head of the Aviation Subcommittee up on the Hill, addressed that issue today, referring to the latest report about screeners, and one that's coming out Friday from the General Accounting Office. He claims that in that GAO report that the private screeners performed better than the federal screeners. What he is advocating is a return to private screeners but under federal supervision. That would be different than it was before 9/11. At that point it was the airlines that ran the screening program.
DOBBS: So in other words, the people who can't run TSA, they would be supervising the people who were responsible for the terrorists of September 11th. This sounds like a wonderful concept, Jeanne. Jeanne Meserve, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
The theft of personal financial information in this country is nothing less now than an epidemic. And it is getting worse seemingly every day. The latest company to report a major loss of your personal financial information is the shoe firm DSW. It says thieves have stolen information on nearly 1.5 million of its credit card customers. That's 10 times more than the original estimate.
Christine Romans is here with the disturbing report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, unbelievably it's come down to this. Buying a pair of shoes could put you at risk for identity theft.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): As DSW customers have learned, your personal information is available for the picking by identity thieves. BETSY BRODER, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION: We know that there are criminals out there, and that this information is a real honey pot for them. With your Social Security number, date of birth, and name, they can open up new accounts in your name, they can drain your existing accounts.
ROMANS: Your data is available from insecure databases of information brokers and from retailers like DSW. In fact it is probably held in thousands of databases all over the world.
LINDA FOLEY, IDENTITY THEFT RESOURCE CENTER: The reality is that most of our information is in the hands of the business world, that's the main repository of our information.
ROMANS: And the business world is having a hard time holding onto it. Ameritrade says it may have lost account information for 200,000 people when a tape full of backup data disappeared. From Lexis-Nexis, thieves stole names, addresses, Social Security and driver's license numbers of 310,000 Americans. In February, at ChoicePoint, thieves used fake businesses to buy personal information of 145,000 people.
The Federal Trade Commission says almost 10 million Americans are the victim of such theft every year, spending almost 300 million hours sorting it out at a cost to the victims and to business of almost $50 billion.
It's staggering, and as more businesses rely on digital information and send it overseas, security experts expect more breaches ahead.
JEFF MOSS, BLACK HAT, INC.: If it is cheaper and faster to outsource this information to datacenters in India or China, that's what they do. And if the people who are in charge of this outsourcing don't know enough to ask for a review of security procedures, then that means all of us are at a greater risk.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: There are a couple of things you can do. You can make sure you don't carry your Social Security card in your purse or your wallet. You can also make sure that your mailbox is locked, nobody can get your mail.
But those are just the things that you and I can do. All of that sensitive information that was already out there, other people already have it in thousands of places all over the world.
DOBBS: I want somebody to tell me one more time that outsourcing is good for America, as all of this information is being distributed around the world. And the individual has no recourse here. Can the individual do anything about this?
ROMANS: There are a couple of class actions cases moving through there. But you have you to prove negligence and some of the lawyers we talked to it's kind of hard to prove negligence because a lot of these firms will just blame it on whoever is the company they have that's holding their data.
DOBBS: The companies that have been outsourced to.
ROMANS: Of course.
DOBBS: And of course, I guess it's not negligence, if it becomes an industry standard that they simply provide your information to every identity theft around the world. An amazing story. Christine Romans, thank you.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, China's unfair trade practices or the United States unwise trade practices. I'll be joined by two Congressman who will tell us why their new legislation will pressure China to stop it's unfair trade practices.
And then the Senate battle over a bill that would stop illegal aliens from obtaining driver's licenses. One senator will be here to tell us why he says the Senate can afford to wait to pass the real I.D. Act.
Then, a popular new hot line for reporting suspected illegal aliens. Yes, there is one. And it is helping the government actually track down illegal aliens, including my goodness some criminals. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As we've reported here, much of this countries exploding trade deficit with China is a direct result of China's unfair trading practices, and our often unwise trade practices. My next guest are demanding action against one of China's practices, it's manipulation and undervaluation of its currency. House Arms Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter and Congressman Tim Ryan have written and introduced the China Currency Act, and they join us tonight from Capital.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), HOUSE ARMS SERVICE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Good to be with you.
REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: Good to be here.
DOBBS: Let me put this question forward first, precisely how would your legislation deal, and if may, Congressman Ryan, I'll start with you, deal with the pegging of the dollar to the renmindbi, the Chinese currency.
RYAN: Well, basicly, says that any exchange rate manipulation, equals an export subsidy, which we want to clarify and make law into the United States of America, so, Chinese -- the Chinese government can be punished for that. Right now currency manipulation is not seen as an export subsidy, and it should be just as much as subsidy slave labor or anything else. DOBBS: One might go to that level Congressman Ryan, as you point out, basicly across much of China, the labor there in terms of the wages, it's treatment, conditions, and protections as laborers as we understand it, is effectively is slave labor. Is that -- would that not be considered a subsidy as well?
RYAN: Well, were having trouble, you know, figuring out whether that is or not. I would think it would be. But this legislation just focuses on the currency manipulation. You know, there's a lot of different trade issues you talk about a lot, and I'm sure Duncan and I maybe even disagree on some of those. But what we should be able to agree on is that the Chinese are cheating. And we need to agree in a bipartisan way, and fix the problem.
DOBBS: And you're legislation Mr. Chairman, it will punish the Chinese in what fashion?
HUNTER: Well, what it does, and I've joined Tim's legislation, because this legislation is something that hopefully will take away this massive trade surplus that the Chinese enjoy over the U.S. right now. They're using those hard dollars, Lou, to buy -- to buy systems like the Sovremenny-class Missile Destroyer from the Russians. These are ships that were designed to kill American aircraft carriers. In the old days they couldn't afford them because the Russians wouldn't take IOUs. Now they pay them with American collars.
And what this would do is allow -- is allow an aggrieved party to go to the ITC -- the International Trade Commission say, listen, the Chinese are engaged in an unfair subsidy devaluing your currency artificially is an unfair subsidy. And they could at that point -- they could at that point ask for sanctions against the Chinese just as they could under any other type of subsidy. What I'm worried about if those sunburn missiles that are presently on the Sovremenny-class missile cruisers designed to kill American aircraft carriers, and the sailors that are on them. The new MiG fighter production that the Chinese is buying with American dollars from the Russians. These are very high performance aircraft. The MiG 27s and MiG 30s that are going to be coming online.
So, Russia is -- China is arming, and the sad thing is they're arming in a way that will offset the American fleet. And they are doing it with American dollars.
DOBBS: And Congressman Ryan, your legislation for the first time would, at least, introduce the concept, that interest that Duncan Hunter holds so closely to his heart, as chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, introduce a role for the secretary of Defense and in the -- and link national security to trade issues, correct?
RYAN: Absolutely. I think it needs to be a component of this legislation. Listen, we're losing so much manufacturing, all over the United States. Thousands of jobs and that hurts economically. But what we're really concerned with is the fact that we're losing our defense industrial base. We need to be able to at the very least supply our own military. You may agree with free trade and the concept that, hey, let the dollars go where they may, and let the lowest producer win. But we can't afford to...
DOBBS: Let me be clear, Congressman, I absolutely do not agree with what we're calling free trade.
HUNTER: You are talking to Lou Dobbs here.
RYAN: I know you. I'm sure some of your audience, maybe, very few. But the bottom line is even if you agree with that philosophy, you can agree with the fact that we shouldn't be able to at least supply our own military. And that's how dangerously close we're getting. And that's why Chairman Hunter and I are working on this together.
DOBBS: Well, that is outstanding. And I think that you're both to be complimented, if I may say in my opinion, for drawing a clear and absolutely concise link between what is currency manipulation and the result which is to subsidize trade and exports. It is so straightforward. I mean, you're going to alarm your colleagues in Congress with that kind of clear thinking and straightforward approach. Aren't you concerned, Chairman Hunter?
HUNTER: Well, you know, one thing about the Chinese, Lou, is they don't sugar coat things. And they don't -- they're not very subtle about their positions. They basically laid out a strategy which counts on currency manipulation to accumulate lots of hard currency. And so it's right out there for everybody to see. And you've lots and lots of economists who say, yes, the manipulation is taking place. So the question is, what does the United States do about it?
And I think focusing more and more on the fact they are buying weapons, weapons which they are aiming at the United States. I mean everybody who has a young man or a young lady or a friend who is in the armed fores of the United States who may at one point have to defend the streets of Taiwan has an interest in the United States not arming China. In fact, that is what we are doing with this massive hard currency surplus that we are giving them.
RYAN: And Lou, the one point, too, I think our colleagues need to understand is this is a WTO compliant bill. Most bills that come forth most people say, you know, they are not WTO compliant, so we just dismiss them automatically. Chairman Hunter and I went to great lengths to make sure that this is compliant with the World Trade Organization rules. And we want to work within that framework in order to get support for this.
DOBBS: And I -- and I want to say simply we thank you for being here. We wish you all of the best of luck in this. I know you both are confident that you're going to have passage of this important legislation. Again, good to have you both here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Lou.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: At the top of the hour, here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360: Inside the Vatican," a special report on Pope Benedict XVI. Anderson Cooper is here now to tell us what is in store. Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
Next on this special edition of "360: Inside the Vatican," a new spiritual leader for more than a billion Catholics around the world, Pope Benedict XVI, a strong-willed conservative. How is he going to lead the Catholic Church? That's what we'll be looking at. We're also going to take a closer look at his past. He was briefly a member of the Hitler Youth. We're going to look at how that may impact his thinking now. We're covering all the angles. That and more, coming up at the top of the hour. Lou?
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Anderson. Thank you very much. "ANDERSON COOPER 360," in about 20 minutes.
Up next, I'll be joined by one of a dozen senators who want the Real I.D. Act on border security and immigration reform taken off the table. He'll be here to tell us why and to discuss a host of other issues. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Arizona's senate has approved a plan to build a new private prison to house thousands of illegal aliens now incarcerated in that state. The new prison would be made -- would be built in Mexico. Supporters say that prison would greatly reduce the cost of holding almost 4,000 illegal aliens in Arizona prisons. Arizona's house passed a similar measure last month. Not surprisingly, Mexico's government, which has done absolutely nothing to stop the invasion of its citizens into Arizona says the prison proposal for its illegal aliens has, quote, "no validity."
Turning now to the United States Senate's failure to consider a bill designed to keep driver's licenses out of the hands of illegal aliens and terrorist. My next guest is one of 12 senators who wrote a letter to Majority Leader Senator Bill Frist, demanding the Senate put off debate on the Real I.D. Act. Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Good to have you with us.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESSEE: Thank you, Lou. Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Senator, what in the world is going on in the Senate? The Republican leadership in both the Senate and the House, assuring Chairman Sensenbrenner, the House Judiciary Committee, that his legislation would be attached to must-pass legislation. You all don't want to touch this?
ALEXANDER: We'll touch it, but nobody I know told anybody that we ought to put a two-month debate on immigration on a bill that ought to be about helmets and armor and support for our troops in Iraq. I think it's disgraceful that the House of Representatives put one piece of an immigration solution on a bill that's designed to support men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan who are risking their lives for us. Now, we ought to deal with illegal immigration and we ought to deal with it now. We all ordered a hearing about it. There are 15 parts to the issue. We ought to act on it this year, but that's the wrong way to do it.
Plus, it's an unfunded federal mandate. It's another big example of Congressmen sitting around a room in Washington, saying, I got an idea. Let's just send it to the states, tell them to do it, and tell them to pay the bill. And, it's a federal -- national I.D. card -- we've never had one minute of debate in the United States Senate about a national I.D. card, which most Americans, I think, would be really skeptical about. So it would be -- it's completely wrong to put it on a bill for troops in Iraq.
DOBBS: Well, if I may, Senator, let me go through some reasoning with you on it and see how absurd an idea it is.
Our men and women in uniform are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and serving their nation there to protect us from terrorism. Our borders in this country permitted 3,000 -- three million, rather, illegal aliens, to cross our borders last year. They are absolutely porous. We don't know who these people are. Sensenbrenner comes forward with legislation, the Real I.D. Bill, to prevent abuses of asylum, to give us an opportunity to know who is in this country, legally and illegally, and who might pose a threat. So, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. But I defer to you. I certainly would not resist your argument.
But when you say an unfunded mandate, would result here, I'm curious because what do you call $150 billion in depressed wages for working men and women who are citizens of the country as a result of illegal immigration?
ALEXANDER: I call, I call...
DOBBS: What do you call $50 billion that states have to pay for social services for incarceration of illegal aliens? For healthcare, for illegal aliens? That sounds like an unfunded mandate of a mammoth dimension.
ALEXANDER: I call it a great big unfunded mandate, Lou, and you are right. I've said it before I was a senator and I've said it ever since I have been here. We should be embarrassed as a Congress that we're not dealing with illegal immigration. It's a federal issue, we're a country committed to the rule of law. We have 10, 15 million people here who are illegally here. We need to pass comprehensive legislation that creates legal status for workers, that decides that we want a national I.D. card, that decides who should get student visas, that decides whether we want to begin to take people who are exceptionally skilled as engineers in here. That's all part after comprehensive package.
We can be faulted for not having done it, but we shouldn't -- we shouldn't be putting it on a bill to troops to Iraq. We shouldn't be sending it to the states and sending them the bill with it. That's not the way to do business. DOBBS: Well, let me ask you this, because, it seems to me to -- if I may say, and you know, I'm paid to be somewhat skeptical and I certainly am that sometimes and I'm sure you are of me, as we look at one another in our respective roles. But the fact of the matter is, this seems like a convenient way in which to push the issue of real reform to the side again, that is, the Real I.D. Act. Will you support that on its own, Senator?
ALEXANDER: No, the answer is no, I would not, for the reasons I said. This would be like somebody running into your desk, here in the middle of the show, and saying Lou, here's a contract, sign it. I think would you probably say, wait a minute, I would like to read it before I sign it. I mean, this, this, this...
DOBBS: Nearly every time, Senator.
ALEXANDER: The substance -- the substance of the bill would say, to the states, you got 190 million driver's licenses. You need -- you would need to turn the driver's licenses examiners into CIA agents. These are people who are trained to take your picture and to tell you whether you can parallel park. You are asking them to verify your utility bill and decide whether you are an al-Qaeda agent. I think if the federal government wants to create a federal I.D. card, we ought to do it, and we ought -- now, we took a step on that last year when we passed the intelligence bill. And we did take steps to create more secure driver's licenses and we have -- and that's going on right now, and the Real I.D. would repeal that. So it's a step backward in that sense.
DOBBS: Well, Senator, if I may say, your hyperbole about the CIA agents, in residence at DMV departments around the country is an attractive one. If I may point out, it really doesn't become a national identification bill, but does require proof of citizenship in order to have a driver's license. That doesn't seem to be too daunting a task for anyone, even in federal government. But, Senator, we're out of time. I've got to ask you to come back soon and we can discuss this further. I hope you will.
ALEXANDER: I'd love to. I know you feel strongly about it. I thank you for the invitation.
DOBBS: Senator Lamar Alexander. Good to have you with us.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll on a proposal that would give legal status to as many as a million illegal aliens in this country, the so-called Ag-jobs Bill. Do you think the Ag-Jobs Bill is simply a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests? Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up next.
How average American citizens are helping catch illegal aliens, again, with their telephone, and it has nothing to do with the Minuteman Project. That's also working. We'll have the report next. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The thousands of Minuteman volunteers along our southern border are not the only Americans helping our federal government enforce immigration laws, as it turns out. The number of Americans now reporting illegal aliens to national and local telephone hotlines is soaring. Casey Wian has the report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the command center for the Department of Homeland Security's tip line where callers can report suspected violations of immigration and customs laws. Here, operators gather information about a wide range of crimes and criminals, but most involve illegal aliens, including the nation's most wanted fugitive criminal aliens and most wanted human smugglers.
Just over halfway into fiscal year 2005, the tip line, 866-DHS-2- ICE has received more than 46,000 calls. That's more than triple the previous year's pace.
In a statement, Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security Michael Garcia said "alert citizens using the tip line are making significant contributions to homeland security."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) communications.
WIAN: In the backyard of Arizona's Minuteman Project, the Border Patrol's Tucson sector recently began promoting its citizen tip line, with giant billboards and the phone number on agent vehicles. This month, the operators have received 1,200 tips, double the previous month's total.
MICHAEL NICLEY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: The citizen calls that we get really are critical to us doing our job. Just last week, we got a citizen call about a suspicious activity at a house. We sent our agents over. We arrested 45 people -- one who was wanted for multiple counts of child molestation.
When recently last month, the country of Mexico had six violent felons escape from one of their prisons -- they were wanted for murder, assault, kidnapping, narcotics trafficking -- a citizen call led to the discovery of two of those people by our agents.
WIAN: Nicley plans even more promotion of his citizen tip line through broadcast public service announcements, and he believes it could be expanded to all 20 Border Patrol sectors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Homeland Security Department officials, both local and national, say the outpouring of citizen calls is a result of their efforts to promote the hotlines. They say it has nothing to do with the success of the Minuteman Project. And so far we haven't heard the president call citizens who report illegal aliens by phone vigilantes, Lou. DOBBS: I think it's important that you said not yet. But we should point out again, those billboards and that hotline didn't go up until the Minutemen made their presence felt on the southern border. Correct?
WIAN: Well, the hotline in Arizona did -- was in existence before the Minuteman Project began. They've started putting up the billboards before the Minuteman Project officially began, but Border Patrol officials were certainly aware that the Minutemen were coming, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me try that again. They put them up, what, two weeks before the project started?
WIAN: About six weeks.
DOBBS: Six weeks. All right.
WIAN: Yeah.
DOBBS: I want to get those absolutely accurate.
Casey Wian, thank you very much. And we'll see if those citizen -- citizens using the phones are also called vigilantes. Thank you, sir.
We reported last night here that "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" ran an editorial calling this broadcast a forum for, quote, "nativists bashing illegal immigration." We do that here, by the way, we do bash illegal immigration. As the saying goes, what don't they understand about illegal?
Today we invited the newspaper's editorial page editor and the author of the editorial, Cynthia Tucker, to appear on this broadcast to discuss their views. "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" said Ms. Tucker was unavailable to join us tonight. We hope that she or anyone else from the paper's editorial board will soon join us in the very near future.
Taking a look now at your thoughts. Arthur Wilson in Henderson, Nevada: "Try to get further than 21 miles into Mexico and you can't, because it's patrolled by their self-defense force. Pay the Mexican army half of what we allot the Border Patrol, and believe me, no one will get out." That may be the most original idea I've heard yet on illegal immigration control.
From a viewer who asked not to be identified because he lives in Guadalajara, Mexico: "I wish to thank CNN and you for your excellent and constant coverage on illegal immigration. It is comforting to know that you are not intimidated by the politicians nor the corporate lobbies, but see the situation as it is, grave. Please treat my note with confidentiality. I would not like to be declared 'persona non grata' by the Mexican government."
Brian in Weston, Florida -- "Lou, please explain to me: If good fences make good neighbors, why is it that President Bush can't understand what good borders -- that good borders make good neighboring countries? We need a border that works."
And Keoki from Pahoa, Hawaii -- "Lou, I think it might be time to be honest and admit that our Constitution must be amended. We need to realize first and foremost that this is a country for the corporations and by the corporations."
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you would like, to receive our e-mail newsletter, sign up on loudobbs.com.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. We'll tell you about yesterday's poll, and we'll have a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: First, the results of last night's poll, which we didn't have time last night to give you. The question was: Do you believe the impact of excessive illegal immigration is a legitimate environmental concern? Ninety-one percent of you said it certainly is.
Now, the results of tonight's poll: 97 percent of you said the ag jobs bill is basically a sell-out to American agricultural corporations and interests; 3 percent think it's not. Note, Washington, it ain't selling.
Thanks for being with us. Join us here tomorrow for our special report, "Broken Borders." The appellate court with jurisdiction over the borders inundated. Most of them, however, aren't from Mexico. Be with us for that special report, and a great deal more. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Lou, thanks very much.
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
