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American Morning

Remembering the Victims of the OKC Bombing; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'

Aired April 19, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien in New York.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma city. We're here today for a very special memorial for the victims of the bombing 10 years ago. Coming up, we'll meet a woman who lost two grandsons that day, and now she is in very close correspondence, believe it or not, in a letter campaign with Terry Nichols, now behind bars, serving a life sentence, multiple life sentences. We'll get her very interesting explanation for that relationship in a moment -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the Michael Jackson trial presses on with one of its most unpredictable witnesses, the mother of the boy accusing Jackson of molestation, now testifying about a kidnapping plot involving a hot-air balloon. We'll get expert analysis on that ahead.

First, though, another check of the headlines with Carol Costello. Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, the conclave of the Roman Catholic cardinals set to resume in less than two hours. The morning session wrapped up earlier with no decision on a new pope. Black smoke rose from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel. The 115 cardinals eligible to vote will meet for mass ahead of resuming the conclave.

A vote is expected today on the nomination of President Bush's pick for United Nations ambassador. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is set to vote on John Bolton's nomination later today, and it could be close. Some Democrats on the panel say they'll try to block the nomination, but Democrats are outnumbered on the panel 10-8.

Buying some popular cold and allergy medications at Target may require an extra step. The nation's second largest discount retailer is moving drugs such as Nyquil and Sudafed behind the pharmacy counter. Target says they contain a key ingredient used in making methamphetamine. Target says lit stop sales of the medications altogether at stores that do not have a pharmacy.

And Lance Armstrong says he wants to go out on top. The six-time Tour De France winner announces he'll hang up his jersey this year, after trying for No. 7 that is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE ARMSTRONG, PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: After a lot of thought, considering the season, the races that I was going to do this year and deciding to focus on the tour, at the same time, I've decided that the Tour De France will be my last race as a professional cyclist. So July 24th will be the last one after more or less 14 years in the professional peleton (ph), and it will be last one, win or lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Armstrong says the biggest impact on his decision to retire was his three children. He calls being away from them for months grueling. And now it's back to Oklahoma City and Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Carol, thank you.

As our coverage continues, remembering the victims of the bombing today; 168 people died as a result of that explosion, 19 of them were children. Jannie Coverdale lost her two grandsons, Aaron and Elijah. The toddlers were in the day care center of the Murrah Federal Building when that blast went off at 9:02 in the morning.

Jannie Coverdale is back with me here in Oklahoma City.

Nice to see you again after so many years.

JANNIE COVERDALE, LOST TWO GRANDSONS IN OKC BOMBING: It's been a long time.

HEMMER: Yes, I know that you do not come down here every year on April 19th.

COVERDALE: I don't.

HEMMER: But you're here this year to mark the 10-year. Does it mean more to you this time around? What is your feeling as you approach this memorial service?

COVERDALE: Really, I felt like I owed it to Aaron and Elijah to be here today. All the other family members area going to be here today to mark the 10th-year anniversary, and I had to be here for them. I'm the only family member here in Oklahoma City. So I had to come.

HEMMER: The last time we talked, we were sitting in a field in Terre Haute, Indiana. That was the day Timothy McVeigh was put to death.

Since then, you have started a letter campaign with Terry Nichols, now behind bars. Tell me about that relationship you've started with him.

COVERDALE: OK. You know, I attended both trials in Denver. I attended those trials, because I was told by the U.S. attorney's office here to attend the trials and all of my questions would be answered. Well, by the time Terry Nichols' trial was over, I had more questions. And after Terry Nichols didn't get the death penalty in the state trial, I decided to write him for the simple reason, who else can I get the truth from, other than Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier.

HEMMER: So what do you ask Terry Nichols, and what does he tell you?

COVERDALE: The first letter I wrote Terry, I said, God saw fit to save your life again. Now, it's time for you to tell the truth about what really happened. You owe the family members and survivors, and you also owe your family, because we are all victims.

HEMMER: Two questions there. Does he say that this whole plot ends with Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh?

COVERDALE: Terry has never said that. Terry has never said that there were nobody else involved in the bombing. Terry has never said, I don't have anything to tell.

HEMMER: Has he ever said he's sorry?

COVERDALE: Not exactly. He will sort of beat around the bush and say something like, the bombing should never have happened, or I know you're still hurting from the loss of your grandchildren, but he's never said I'm sorry, I have murdered your grandchildren.

HEMMER: I know you've gone through some very tough times, and very understandable, too. I think at one time, you committed (ph) taking your own life and backed away from that. How are you doing today?

COVERDALE: Today I think is going to be one of my good days. I have good days and I have bad days, and then I have worse days. And I think today is going to be one of my good days. I'm sure the boys are glad to see me here.

HEMMER: Yes, I'm certain. Nice to see you again.

COVERDALE: Nice seeing you, too.

HEMMER: After so many years. Jannie Coverdale, here in Oklahoma City.

COVERDALE: Thank you.

HEMMER: We'll be watching here for the memorial service that will begin in about 90 minutes from now as our coverage continues in Oklahoma -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: The mother of Michael Jackson's accuser is returning for a fifth day of questioning in Jackson's child-molestation trial. There was more contentious, combative testimony on Monday from the accuser's mother, who became the prosecution's runaway witness.

Attorney Anne Bremner was inside that courtroom. She joins us from Santa Maria in California this morning.

Anne, nice to see you, as always. Let's get right to it.

Kind of like a wreck some people said. Sum up for us the highlights or maybe it's more appropriate to call them the lowlights of what's happened.

ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Lowlights. Yes, it's been -- it's like a train wreck, and the jury's been riveted. You can't look, but you can't look away. We've heard testimony about escaping in a hot air balloon from Neverland, pointing at Michael Jackson, calling him a real killer, and then looking at the jury and pointing at Jackson saying, ask him, he'll tell you. So it's been a little bit of a wild ride with this witness.

O'BRIEN: Does she make a point, though, every once in a while? We talked about how she was talking about a death plot with a hot air balloon. What's the jurors' reaction to the kind of crazy stuff? I think it's fair to call it that. And then does she have then moments of lucidity.

BREMNER: This is a -- we've talked about this before. This jury is not very demonstrative. They laugh sometimes. They take a lot of notes. They've been riveted, but it's hard to tell what they're thinking overall. I think they keep everything close to the vest. But if anybody watching this, including this jury, I think, is a little shell-shocked. And, you know, in terms of the way she relates to the jury, is relatively bizarre. She turns to them and starts talking to them and says, that defense attorney is trying to hide things to you. This is kind of conspiratorial with the jurors.

She said one thing, she said, Michael Jackson has fooled the world, he's tried to say he's the patron saint of children, that he's great with children, and it's the opposite. She's also had her testimony corroborated by some surveillance tapes and some audio tapes. So there's some corroboration for what she says.

O'BRIEN: Does she hurt the prosecution's case when she does things like addressing the jurors directly and does things that seem, again, I hate to sort of characterize things inappropriately, but almost all analysts are calling this very bizarre behavior.

BREMNER: You know, if you survey the courtroom of all the media, lawyers, court watchers, even fans, you'll find two-thirds that would say she's a disaster with a capital 'D' for the prosecution. And about a third that say she's credible. Because there's really three circuses in this case. There's one kind of outside with Jackson impersonators and crowds. There's kind of the circus in the courtroom, very bizarre witnesses from day to day. And then there's this whole idea, there's kind of a circus in her head. But the question, is what's going on in her head, what she's describing, really the wacky world of Michael Jackson? And is it all true?

And we hear there's more corroboration coming up in some bombshell evidence from the prosecutors that could support what she says. O'BRIEN: Is -- at one point, the prosecutor had his head in his hands, because he seemed so frustrated.

BREMNER: He did.

O'BRIEN: He also objected to his own witness, which is just unheard of, right?

BREMNER: It is. He sat in the front row with his head in his hands on Friday. And then objecting to his own witness, nonresponsive when she was being questioned by Thomas Mesereau. It's been curiouser and curiouser, you know, the words of "Alice in Wonderland," this entire trial, but especially this witness.

O'BRIEN: Does Tom Mesereau just let her go? I mean, is he just -- what's the tone in the courtroom what she's dog going? Are they just standing back and saying, he listen, if she goes, we have an opportunity to have her bring up kind of random things that she wasn't asked about?

BREMNER: Absolutely, Soledad. What he does is just -- he lets her go so that she can hang herself, and that has been successful.

O'BRIEN: Then do you think that after her testimony, Michael Jackson has to take the stand, doesn't have to take the stand at all? What do you think happens on that front?

BREMNER: I thought that the end of that pattern evidence, what was called 1108, that once a pedophile, always a pedophile evidence, pattern evidence -- that was very strong. Once that was done, I thought and many thought he would have to take the stand. With this witness, they may have lost a lot of what they gained, at least at this point. So if things remain about where they are right now for the prosecution case, I don't think he needs to take the stand.

But again, they say that they have some corroboration for what she says, including a journal from someone in Jackson's camp that corroborates her testimony and some phone calls. So if that's the case and it's strong again, then yes, he'll have to take the stand. He's taken the stand in one prior trial and actually two prior trials. He won one, he lost one. So maybe the third time, he'll testify again and third time would be the charm for him.

O'BRIEN: And we've got to remember, of course, that it's really up to the jurors, what they hear and how they interpret and decipher if they think something's crazy or maybe they think the crazy is true in some cases. Who knows? Anne Bremner, thanks, as always.

BREMNER: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: Nice to see you. Appreciate it.

BREMNER: Nice to see you. Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Well, a routine traffic stop in Arizona led to a surprise discovery. Police found 32 alligators and 50 boa constrictors being hauled in a trailer Sunday. Police pulled the driver over for a faulty taillight when they found the animals hidden in cage compartments. The driver says that he was moving to Georgia, taking the animals with him. The authorities seized the animals until their investigation is over.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Some new worries about some popular over-the-counter painkillers. We're going to tell you about a possible link to heart attacks.

Plus, exercise is supposed to be good for your heart. But if you don't lose weight while you're at it, is it just a waste of time? We are "Paging Dr. Gupta" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: New research is raising new questions about the safety of over-the-counter painkillers, like Advil, Aleve and Motrin. A Norwegian study found that a group of smokers who took those drugs for at least six months had twice the risk of dying from a heart attack, a stroke, or other heart-related disease. Prescription painkillers Bextra and Vioxx have already been pulled off the market due to heart risks.

And this week, the American Heart Association is taking a closer look at the impact of obesity on heart health. As Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells us now, working out without slimming down could an exercise in futility.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, SR. CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In just ten years, Harald Fricker went from looking like this, to looking like this. He gained 13 pounds a year. No one was more surprised than Harald. After all, he began every day with a morning run at 4:00 a.m. with his dogs, even a cat.

HARALD FRICKER: There's no denying that I'm addicted to running, but I think it's a pretty healthy addiction.

GUPTA: But just how healthy is it? Is it OK to be fit and fat? Nope. Not according to a new study published by the American Heart Association.

DEMETRA CHRISTOU, STUDY AUTHOR: If you're overweight or obese, you need to lose weight and decrease fat accumulation, despite your fitness level.

GUPTA: That's because the excess fat in the body contributes to higher blood pressure, stiffening of the arteries, higher bad cholesterol, all of which contribute to an increased risk of heart attack or stroke, no matter how many miles you can run.

(on camera): All right, so it's true that most people who have low physical activity also have high fat. But it turns out that it is important not just to be fit, but to drop the pounds, especially that abdominal fat as well. Losing it can be as simple as eating 250 calories less than usual. That's approximately the equivalent of two regular sodas and you would lose 25 pounds in one year.

Then to keep the weight off, it's important to exercise as well. Swimming can burn around 500 calories per hour. An hour of basketball can burn over 700 calories. Even mowing the lawn for an hour can burn 200 to 300 calories. But given the choice between more exercise and fewer calories, Harald is learning to focus more on eating less.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The study only looked at men. Researchers suspect, though, that the same might be true in women. That research, though, has not been yet been completed.

Well, ahead this morning, the airline deal that was too good to last. How some passengers got round-trip tickets for just a $1.86. Andy is "Minding Your Business," up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Massive case of identity theft for shoe shoppers, and they know your shoe size. And taking a flight for less than it costs to ride the subway.

With those stories, a look at the markets and some economic numbers, Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Got the kitchen sink this morning, Jack.

CAFFERTY: It's all there.

SERWER: Yes, we'll talk about shoes, first of all. This is unbelievable. Another identity-theft story. DSW, it's the Designer Shoe Warehouse, 176 stores across the country, you remember last month we told you they had an identity-theft problem. It seemed to be about 100,000 individuals who had their accounts compromised. How many times have we talked about this. Guess what? The company came out and said, it's 10 times worse than they originally thought -- 1.4 million customers at their stores have had their identities compromised. They're sending out notifications. The problem keeps getting worse. There is no nationwide plan to deal with this. And this is a company that was looking to go, in fact, is still looking to go public. I think they might want to put the initial-public offering on hold until they sort this out, but that's just my take.

Let's talk...

CAFFERTY: Unbelievable. SERWER: It really is. And I think we need -- the companies need to notify customers right away.

CAFFERTY: Exactly. That's the problem. We got this many customers. Potentially, the damage could be as high as whatever the top number is and give people fair warning. Not, you know -- quite trying to couch it.

SERWER: And dribble out like that.

A company, U.S. Air, in bankruptcy. This is the last thing they needed. Yesterday, a glitch on their computer system. They're offering round-trip tickets for $1.86. One dollar and 86 cents to fly from city A to city B and back.

CAFFERTY: That's a good deal.

SERWER: Yes. You know, you can't take -- well, you can take a subway in New York City, but barely. It's just unbelievable.

O'BRIEN: No it's two bucks.

SERWER: Yes, that's true, it's now two bucks.

CAFFERTY: Are they going to honor these?

SERWER: Yes, they are. They are going to honor them. A thousand tickets were purchased. Some people actually said they saw it and refused to do it. They declined to do it. They said this company's in a lot of trouble, we know this a mistake; we're not going to do this.

CAFFERTY: Wasn't that nice.

SERWER: It was nice, and it was also nice that the company decided to honor the tickets.

Talk about the markets a little bit here, Jack. A lot of action crossing the tape early this morning. This is yesterday, Nasdaq and S&P up, Dow still going down.

Now housing starts plunging this morning, down 17 percent, the biggest drop in 14 years. That's bad stuff. Inflation on the producer level up. But that's mostly because of gas prices. And lastly, General Motors announcing just a minute or two ago a $1.1 billion loss in the first quarter. Unbelievable.

CAFFERTY: People write in all the time saying, how come you guys never report any good news. You're the reason. That was all pretty...

SERWER: I'm like a cancer in the show.

CAFFERTY: No, not really.

Time for the "File." Texas, opening up an express lane on death row. The Lone Star State is going to carry out two executions tomorrow when two men convicted of separate murders will receive lethal injections, sort of a double-header of death. Forty-two-year- old Douglas Roberts will be put to death first, quickly followed by 26-year-old Milton Mathis. There will be just enough time in between to escort the witnesses to the first execution out of the room, bring in the second set of witnesses, plug the needle in and say, sayonara.

Texas leads the nation in executions, 340 since 1982. The most killers executed in a single day in Texas, though, in 1924, they got rid of five of them in one day in the electric chair.

SERWER: See, you do bad news, too.

CAFFERTY: Depending upon your point of view, I think that's kind of good news actually.

Ann Coulter whines, why can't they just photograph conservatives straight? The columnist angry with "Time" magazine for this week's cover photo shot with a wide-angle lens. According to "The New York Daily News," Coulter sent an e-mail saying North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il was treated better and he's better looking.

My feet are -- this is what she said, "My feet are the size of the Atlantic Ocean and my head's the size of a pee," unquote. "Time's" executive editor says that there's a lot of women who would kill for those legs, even though they have great, big feet at the end of them. Coulter says she's not going to read the article about her.

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Two-thousand maximum-security inmates in Phoenix, Arizona successfully transferred to a new prison facility on Sunday. They were marched to their new digs in pink boxer shorts, pink flip- flop flops, pink handcuffs. Some of the inmates says this was inhumane, but Maricopa County Sheriff Joseph Arpayo (ph), who calls himself the toughest sheriff America, says stripping the inmates for the walk is the right thing to do. He says, "What do you want me to, do put them in tuxedos to move them?"

Way to go, sheriff. We're with you on that. I like that deal.

SERWER: How about orange jump suits?

O'BRIEN: There are other outfits that you can wear that are not a tuxedo. There's something between the pink shorts.

CAFFERTY: I like the pink shorts and the flip-flops.

SERWER: That guy's been in the news before, that sheriff, right?

CAFFERTY: He's a tough guy. And you know what, the recidivism rate in his county is lower than it is in most places in the country, because once they get a taste of the sheriff out there, you know, you go to New Mexico and do your liquor store holdup.

SERWER: Wow, that is something else. O'BRIEN: Kind of a mixed bag in the file today. I like it.

CAFFERTY: Ann Coulter, double execution and convicts in pink shorts. I think that fits.

O'BRIEN: Ann Coulter kind of looks like that picture.

SERWER: Sort of fits.

O'BRIEN: She does. I know her.

Please.

Moving, a look at the day's top stories just ahead, including a follow-up to that nightmare at sea that we first reported on Monday. Did the cruise line mishandle the situation?

For the first time -- it's not about you, Jack. We're going to get a direct response from the company official. Yes we are. Each and every passenger, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 19, 2005 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien in New York.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma city. We're here today for a very special memorial for the victims of the bombing 10 years ago. Coming up, we'll meet a woman who lost two grandsons that day, and now she is in very close correspondence, believe it or not, in a letter campaign with Terry Nichols, now behind bars, serving a life sentence, multiple life sentences. We'll get her very interesting explanation for that relationship in a moment -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the Michael Jackson trial presses on with one of its most unpredictable witnesses, the mother of the boy accusing Jackson of molestation, now testifying about a kidnapping plot involving a hot-air balloon. We'll get expert analysis on that ahead.

First, though, another check of the headlines with Carol Costello. Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, the conclave of the Roman Catholic cardinals set to resume in less than two hours. The morning session wrapped up earlier with no decision on a new pope. Black smoke rose from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel. The 115 cardinals eligible to vote will meet for mass ahead of resuming the conclave.

A vote is expected today on the nomination of President Bush's pick for United Nations ambassador. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is set to vote on John Bolton's nomination later today, and it could be close. Some Democrats on the panel say they'll try to block the nomination, but Democrats are outnumbered on the panel 10-8.

Buying some popular cold and allergy medications at Target may require an extra step. The nation's second largest discount retailer is moving drugs such as Nyquil and Sudafed behind the pharmacy counter. Target says they contain a key ingredient used in making methamphetamine. Target says lit stop sales of the medications altogether at stores that do not have a pharmacy.

And Lance Armstrong says he wants to go out on top. The six-time Tour De France winner announces he'll hang up his jersey this year, after trying for No. 7 that is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE ARMSTRONG, PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: After a lot of thought, considering the season, the races that I was going to do this year and deciding to focus on the tour, at the same time, I've decided that the Tour De France will be my last race as a professional cyclist. So July 24th will be the last one after more or less 14 years in the professional peleton (ph), and it will be last one, win or lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Armstrong says the biggest impact on his decision to retire was his three children. He calls being away from them for months grueling. And now it's back to Oklahoma City and Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Carol, thank you.

As our coverage continues, remembering the victims of the bombing today; 168 people died as a result of that explosion, 19 of them were children. Jannie Coverdale lost her two grandsons, Aaron and Elijah. The toddlers were in the day care center of the Murrah Federal Building when that blast went off at 9:02 in the morning.

Jannie Coverdale is back with me here in Oklahoma City.

Nice to see you again after so many years.

JANNIE COVERDALE, LOST TWO GRANDSONS IN OKC BOMBING: It's been a long time.

HEMMER: Yes, I know that you do not come down here every year on April 19th.

COVERDALE: I don't.

HEMMER: But you're here this year to mark the 10-year. Does it mean more to you this time around? What is your feeling as you approach this memorial service?

COVERDALE: Really, I felt like I owed it to Aaron and Elijah to be here today. All the other family members area going to be here today to mark the 10th-year anniversary, and I had to be here for them. I'm the only family member here in Oklahoma City. So I had to come.

HEMMER: The last time we talked, we were sitting in a field in Terre Haute, Indiana. That was the day Timothy McVeigh was put to death.

Since then, you have started a letter campaign with Terry Nichols, now behind bars. Tell me about that relationship you've started with him.

COVERDALE: OK. You know, I attended both trials in Denver. I attended those trials, because I was told by the U.S. attorney's office here to attend the trials and all of my questions would be answered. Well, by the time Terry Nichols' trial was over, I had more questions. And after Terry Nichols didn't get the death penalty in the state trial, I decided to write him for the simple reason, who else can I get the truth from, other than Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier.

HEMMER: So what do you ask Terry Nichols, and what does he tell you?

COVERDALE: The first letter I wrote Terry, I said, God saw fit to save your life again. Now, it's time for you to tell the truth about what really happened. You owe the family members and survivors, and you also owe your family, because we are all victims.

HEMMER: Two questions there. Does he say that this whole plot ends with Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh?

COVERDALE: Terry has never said that. Terry has never said that there were nobody else involved in the bombing. Terry has never said, I don't have anything to tell.

HEMMER: Has he ever said he's sorry?

COVERDALE: Not exactly. He will sort of beat around the bush and say something like, the bombing should never have happened, or I know you're still hurting from the loss of your grandchildren, but he's never said I'm sorry, I have murdered your grandchildren.

HEMMER: I know you've gone through some very tough times, and very understandable, too. I think at one time, you committed (ph) taking your own life and backed away from that. How are you doing today?

COVERDALE: Today I think is going to be one of my good days. I have good days and I have bad days, and then I have worse days. And I think today is going to be one of my good days. I'm sure the boys are glad to see me here.

HEMMER: Yes, I'm certain. Nice to see you again.

COVERDALE: Nice seeing you, too.

HEMMER: After so many years. Jannie Coverdale, here in Oklahoma City.

COVERDALE: Thank you.

HEMMER: We'll be watching here for the memorial service that will begin in about 90 minutes from now as our coverage continues in Oklahoma -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: The mother of Michael Jackson's accuser is returning for a fifth day of questioning in Jackson's child-molestation trial. There was more contentious, combative testimony on Monday from the accuser's mother, who became the prosecution's runaway witness.

Attorney Anne Bremner was inside that courtroom. She joins us from Santa Maria in California this morning.

Anne, nice to see you, as always. Let's get right to it.

Kind of like a wreck some people said. Sum up for us the highlights or maybe it's more appropriate to call them the lowlights of what's happened.

ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Lowlights. Yes, it's been -- it's like a train wreck, and the jury's been riveted. You can't look, but you can't look away. We've heard testimony about escaping in a hot air balloon from Neverland, pointing at Michael Jackson, calling him a real killer, and then looking at the jury and pointing at Jackson saying, ask him, he'll tell you. So it's been a little bit of a wild ride with this witness.

O'BRIEN: Does she make a point, though, every once in a while? We talked about how she was talking about a death plot with a hot air balloon. What's the jurors' reaction to the kind of crazy stuff? I think it's fair to call it that. And then does she have then moments of lucidity.

BREMNER: This is a -- we've talked about this before. This jury is not very demonstrative. They laugh sometimes. They take a lot of notes. They've been riveted, but it's hard to tell what they're thinking overall. I think they keep everything close to the vest. But if anybody watching this, including this jury, I think, is a little shell-shocked. And, you know, in terms of the way she relates to the jury, is relatively bizarre. She turns to them and starts talking to them and says, that defense attorney is trying to hide things to you. This is kind of conspiratorial with the jurors.

She said one thing, she said, Michael Jackson has fooled the world, he's tried to say he's the patron saint of children, that he's great with children, and it's the opposite. She's also had her testimony corroborated by some surveillance tapes and some audio tapes. So there's some corroboration for what she says.

O'BRIEN: Does she hurt the prosecution's case when she does things like addressing the jurors directly and does things that seem, again, I hate to sort of characterize things inappropriately, but almost all analysts are calling this very bizarre behavior.

BREMNER: You know, if you survey the courtroom of all the media, lawyers, court watchers, even fans, you'll find two-thirds that would say she's a disaster with a capital 'D' for the prosecution. And about a third that say she's credible. Because there's really three circuses in this case. There's one kind of outside with Jackson impersonators and crowds. There's kind of the circus in the courtroom, very bizarre witnesses from day to day. And then there's this whole idea, there's kind of a circus in her head. But the question, is what's going on in her head, what she's describing, really the wacky world of Michael Jackson? And is it all true?

And we hear there's more corroboration coming up in some bombshell evidence from the prosecutors that could support what she says. O'BRIEN: Is -- at one point, the prosecutor had his head in his hands, because he seemed so frustrated.

BREMNER: He did.

O'BRIEN: He also objected to his own witness, which is just unheard of, right?

BREMNER: It is. He sat in the front row with his head in his hands on Friday. And then objecting to his own witness, nonresponsive when she was being questioned by Thomas Mesereau. It's been curiouser and curiouser, you know, the words of "Alice in Wonderland," this entire trial, but especially this witness.

O'BRIEN: Does Tom Mesereau just let her go? I mean, is he just -- what's the tone in the courtroom what she's dog going? Are they just standing back and saying, he listen, if she goes, we have an opportunity to have her bring up kind of random things that she wasn't asked about?

BREMNER: Absolutely, Soledad. What he does is just -- he lets her go so that she can hang herself, and that has been successful.

O'BRIEN: Then do you think that after her testimony, Michael Jackson has to take the stand, doesn't have to take the stand at all? What do you think happens on that front?

BREMNER: I thought that the end of that pattern evidence, what was called 1108, that once a pedophile, always a pedophile evidence, pattern evidence -- that was very strong. Once that was done, I thought and many thought he would have to take the stand. With this witness, they may have lost a lot of what they gained, at least at this point. So if things remain about where they are right now for the prosecution case, I don't think he needs to take the stand.

But again, they say that they have some corroboration for what she says, including a journal from someone in Jackson's camp that corroborates her testimony and some phone calls. So if that's the case and it's strong again, then yes, he'll have to take the stand. He's taken the stand in one prior trial and actually two prior trials. He won one, he lost one. So maybe the third time, he'll testify again and third time would be the charm for him.

O'BRIEN: And we've got to remember, of course, that it's really up to the jurors, what they hear and how they interpret and decipher if they think something's crazy or maybe they think the crazy is true in some cases. Who knows? Anne Bremner, thanks, as always.

BREMNER: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: Nice to see you. Appreciate it.

BREMNER: Nice to see you. Thanks.

O'BRIEN: Well, a routine traffic stop in Arizona led to a surprise discovery. Police found 32 alligators and 50 boa constrictors being hauled in a trailer Sunday. Police pulled the driver over for a faulty taillight when they found the animals hidden in cage compartments. The driver says that he was moving to Georgia, taking the animals with him. The authorities seized the animals until their investigation is over.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Some new worries about some popular over-the-counter painkillers. We're going to tell you about a possible link to heart attacks.

Plus, exercise is supposed to be good for your heart. But if you don't lose weight while you're at it, is it just a waste of time? We are "Paging Dr. Gupta" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: New research is raising new questions about the safety of over-the-counter painkillers, like Advil, Aleve and Motrin. A Norwegian study found that a group of smokers who took those drugs for at least six months had twice the risk of dying from a heart attack, a stroke, or other heart-related disease. Prescription painkillers Bextra and Vioxx have already been pulled off the market due to heart risks.

And this week, the American Heart Association is taking a closer look at the impact of obesity on heart health. As Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells us now, working out without slimming down could an exercise in futility.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, SR. CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In just ten years, Harald Fricker went from looking like this, to looking like this. He gained 13 pounds a year. No one was more surprised than Harald. After all, he began every day with a morning run at 4:00 a.m. with his dogs, even a cat.

HARALD FRICKER: There's no denying that I'm addicted to running, but I think it's a pretty healthy addiction.

GUPTA: But just how healthy is it? Is it OK to be fit and fat? Nope. Not according to a new study published by the American Heart Association.

DEMETRA CHRISTOU, STUDY AUTHOR: If you're overweight or obese, you need to lose weight and decrease fat accumulation, despite your fitness level.

GUPTA: That's because the excess fat in the body contributes to higher blood pressure, stiffening of the arteries, higher bad cholesterol, all of which contribute to an increased risk of heart attack or stroke, no matter how many miles you can run.

(on camera): All right, so it's true that most people who have low physical activity also have high fat. But it turns out that it is important not just to be fit, but to drop the pounds, especially that abdominal fat as well. Losing it can be as simple as eating 250 calories less than usual. That's approximately the equivalent of two regular sodas and you would lose 25 pounds in one year.

Then to keep the weight off, it's important to exercise as well. Swimming can burn around 500 calories per hour. An hour of basketball can burn over 700 calories. Even mowing the lawn for an hour can burn 200 to 300 calories. But given the choice between more exercise and fewer calories, Harald is learning to focus more on eating less.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The study only looked at men. Researchers suspect, though, that the same might be true in women. That research, though, has not been yet been completed.

Well, ahead this morning, the airline deal that was too good to last. How some passengers got round-trip tickets for just a $1.86. Andy is "Minding Your Business," up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Massive case of identity theft for shoe shoppers, and they know your shoe size. And taking a flight for less than it costs to ride the subway.

With those stories, a look at the markets and some economic numbers, Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Got the kitchen sink this morning, Jack.

CAFFERTY: It's all there.

SERWER: Yes, we'll talk about shoes, first of all. This is unbelievable. Another identity-theft story. DSW, it's the Designer Shoe Warehouse, 176 stores across the country, you remember last month we told you they had an identity-theft problem. It seemed to be about 100,000 individuals who had their accounts compromised. How many times have we talked about this. Guess what? The company came out and said, it's 10 times worse than they originally thought -- 1.4 million customers at their stores have had their identities compromised. They're sending out notifications. The problem keeps getting worse. There is no nationwide plan to deal with this. And this is a company that was looking to go, in fact, is still looking to go public. I think they might want to put the initial-public offering on hold until they sort this out, but that's just my take.

Let's talk...

CAFFERTY: Unbelievable. SERWER: It really is. And I think we need -- the companies need to notify customers right away.

CAFFERTY: Exactly. That's the problem. We got this many customers. Potentially, the damage could be as high as whatever the top number is and give people fair warning. Not, you know -- quite trying to couch it.

SERWER: And dribble out like that.

A company, U.S. Air, in bankruptcy. This is the last thing they needed. Yesterday, a glitch on their computer system. They're offering round-trip tickets for $1.86. One dollar and 86 cents to fly from city A to city B and back.

CAFFERTY: That's a good deal.

SERWER: Yes. You know, you can't take -- well, you can take a subway in New York City, but barely. It's just unbelievable.

O'BRIEN: No it's two bucks.

SERWER: Yes, that's true, it's now two bucks.

CAFFERTY: Are they going to honor these?

SERWER: Yes, they are. They are going to honor them. A thousand tickets were purchased. Some people actually said they saw it and refused to do it. They declined to do it. They said this company's in a lot of trouble, we know this a mistake; we're not going to do this.

CAFFERTY: Wasn't that nice.

SERWER: It was nice, and it was also nice that the company decided to honor the tickets.

Talk about the markets a little bit here, Jack. A lot of action crossing the tape early this morning. This is yesterday, Nasdaq and S&P up, Dow still going down.

Now housing starts plunging this morning, down 17 percent, the biggest drop in 14 years. That's bad stuff. Inflation on the producer level up. But that's mostly because of gas prices. And lastly, General Motors announcing just a minute or two ago a $1.1 billion loss in the first quarter. Unbelievable.

CAFFERTY: People write in all the time saying, how come you guys never report any good news. You're the reason. That was all pretty...

SERWER: I'm like a cancer in the show.

CAFFERTY: No, not really.

Time for the "File." Texas, opening up an express lane on death row. The Lone Star State is going to carry out two executions tomorrow when two men convicted of separate murders will receive lethal injections, sort of a double-header of death. Forty-two-year- old Douglas Roberts will be put to death first, quickly followed by 26-year-old Milton Mathis. There will be just enough time in between to escort the witnesses to the first execution out of the room, bring in the second set of witnesses, plug the needle in and say, sayonara.

Texas leads the nation in executions, 340 since 1982. The most killers executed in a single day in Texas, though, in 1924, they got rid of five of them in one day in the electric chair.

SERWER: See, you do bad news, too.

CAFFERTY: Depending upon your point of view, I think that's kind of good news actually.

Ann Coulter whines, why can't they just photograph conservatives straight? The columnist angry with "Time" magazine for this week's cover photo shot with a wide-angle lens. According to "The New York Daily News," Coulter sent an e-mail saying North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il was treated better and he's better looking.

My feet are -- this is what she said, "My feet are the size of the Atlantic Ocean and my head's the size of a pee," unquote. "Time's" executive editor says that there's a lot of women who would kill for those legs, even though they have great, big feet at the end of them. Coulter says she's not going to read the article about her.

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Two-thousand maximum-security inmates in Phoenix, Arizona successfully transferred to a new prison facility on Sunday. They were marched to their new digs in pink boxer shorts, pink flip- flop flops, pink handcuffs. Some of the inmates says this was inhumane, but Maricopa County Sheriff Joseph Arpayo (ph), who calls himself the toughest sheriff America, says stripping the inmates for the walk is the right thing to do. He says, "What do you want me to, do put them in tuxedos to move them?"

Way to go, sheriff. We're with you on that. I like that deal.

SERWER: How about orange jump suits?

O'BRIEN: There are other outfits that you can wear that are not a tuxedo. There's something between the pink shorts.

CAFFERTY: I like the pink shorts and the flip-flops.

SERWER: That guy's been in the news before, that sheriff, right?

CAFFERTY: He's a tough guy. And you know what, the recidivism rate in his county is lower than it is in most places in the country, because once they get a taste of the sheriff out there, you know, you go to New Mexico and do your liquor store holdup.

SERWER: Wow, that is something else. O'BRIEN: Kind of a mixed bag in the file today. I like it.

CAFFERTY: Ann Coulter, double execution and convicts in pink shorts. I think that fits.

O'BRIEN: Ann Coulter kind of looks like that picture.

SERWER: Sort of fits.

O'BRIEN: She does. I know her.

Please.

Moving, a look at the day's top stories just ahead, including a follow-up to that nightmare at sea that we first reported on Monday. Did the cruise line mishandle the situation?

For the first time -- it's not about you, Jack. We're going to get a direct response from the company official. Yes we are. Each and every passenger, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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