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American Morning

Oklahoma City: 10 Years Later; Detective Killed; Scare at Sea

Aired April 19, 2005 - 07:29 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Carol.
April 19, 1995, many people have spent the past 10 years of their lives trying to forget that terrible day. But there is one survivor doing what she can to make sure that day is never forgotten.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER (voice over): Polly Nichols still wonders why she made it and so many others did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smoke billowing from the federal court building downtown.

HEMMER: Flying glass severed her jugular and left a hole in her esophagus. She was the first victim in surgery that awful April morning.

POLLY NICHOLS, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'm blessed. I'm fortunate. I'm lucky. Everything went very well for me.

HEMMER (on camera): That's the Journal Building, right?

NICHOLS: Journal Records..

HEMMER: So, you were on the left side over here.

(voice over): Nichols was working in the building across the street.

(on camera): The building is 80 years old, right?

NICHOLS: Yes.

HEMMER: Good construction.

NICHOLS: It's a wonderful building.

HEMMER (voice over): She spent nine days in the hospital, with the window overlooking the destroyed federal building.

NICHOLS: It was kind of cold and rainy, and the huge search lights were just pouring down onto the site, and it made it very uncomfortable. The trees around...

HEMMER: For 10 long years, she has used her pain to teach the lesson that violence is not the answer for political change. Nichols helped raise the millions needed to do build a world class memorial and museum. It is personal in countless ways.

NICHOLS: Doris Hidel Higgenbottom (ph).

HEMMER: Higgenbottom (ph) was her cousin, age 44, killed on the fifth floor of the Murrah Building, remembered, like the others, with a bronze granite and glass chair.

NICHOLS: She was in the time of her life, a very happy time of her life. She had planted a garden. And her life will not be lost in vain. I promise you that.

HEMMER: She also promises that in her second chance at life, this sacred ground will touch people.

NICHOLS: OK, let's leave.

HEMMER: Forever.

NICHOLS: Nothing we do can change the past, but everything we do can change the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Polly Nichols serves on the board of the Oklahoma City National Memorial and Museum. Officially, that's her title. But in so many ways, she does so much more for the people of Oklahoma.

More in a moment here. Back to Soledad now in New York.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thanks.

In Providence, Rhode Island, authorities are investigating the killing of a police detective inside police headquarters on Sunday. Police caught the suspect who made his first court appearance on Monday. Well, now the suspect's family wants to know what happened while he was in police custody.

CNN's Jason Carroll has our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This story is about the faces of two very different people. There's the badly bruised and swollen face of Esteban Carpio (ph). Some of his family were removed from court after they first saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) not guilty. Not guilty. Tell them (INAUDIBLE), Stephen!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His face is mess! They massacred him! I'm surprised he's still alive, the way he looks.

CARROLL: Carpio's (ph) face was so swollen, he wore what correction officers call a spit shield, a mask to protect his wounds and prevent him from spitting. But Providence, Rhode Island police are focused on this face: Detective James Allen. Police say Carpio (ph) shot and killed Allen, a husband and father of two. But officers sense that fact is getting lost in all of the allegations over what happened to Carpio (ph) while in police custody.

CHIEF DEAN ESSERMAN, PROVIDENCE POLICE: This is Detective Allen. We will present this photograph to all of you. Please remember this man, because we will.

CARROLL: Police say as Allen interrogated Carpio (ph) Sunday about his possible involvement in the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman, Carpio (ph) grabbed Allen's gun, fatally shot the detective, jumped out a third floor window and ran. Two Rhode Island state troopers, a police officer and an FBI agent caught him a few blocks away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, when we went to the hospital and we talked to the police, they said he only had a leg injury, minor lacerations. They wouldn't let us see him. Seeing him now, his whole face is massacred.

"ED", SUSPECT'S UNCLE: We tried to get this boy hospital help, psychiatric help, and he was released a number of times in the last 30 days. But we are very sorry about what happened, but he obviously has been beaten very badly.

CARROLL (on camera): Police say there is a time and place to talk about what happened to Carpio (ph), and they say now is not that time. But they did provide some details surrounding what happened during his capture.

ESSERMAN: He jumped out of a third story window. And he struggled in a tough struggle to be apprehended on the ground. When I saw him, he was pretty cut up. More than that, I don't know.

CARROLL (voice over): An investigation is under way. Police say they're not deaf to the family's allegations, but for now, their focus is on burying one of their own. Officer Allen's funeral is Thursday.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Carpio (ph) was charged with murder. He didn't enter a plea in court on Monday. A judge ordered him held without bail.

More details today on the deadly shooting rampage in a Minnesota high school last month. Authorities say the attack in which 16-year- old Jeff Weise killed seven people at the school lasted only nine minutes. Earlier in the day, Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend. Police say Weise's e-mail and journal showed that he thought about the shootings well in advance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HEFFELFINGER, U.S. ATTORNEY: The investigation to date does not give any indication of any individuals being specifically targeted, other than perhaps his grandfather and his girlfriend. But that the attack on the school itself had been planned by Mr. Weise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Authorities also say that Weise was hit three times in the exchange with police before he killed himself.

A Boston fan is paying the price for interfering with New York Yankees outfielder Gary Sheffield during a game last week. The incident occurred, you will recall, at Fenway Park as Sheffield was fielding a ball along the right field wall. The fan's Red Sox tickets were revoked for the 2005 season. Another fan who spilled beer on Sheffield was banned from buying tickets for the rest of this year.

And he is still in the race, but Lance Armstrong can see the finish line. Armstrong has won the Tour de France six straight times. He announced on Monday this year's race will be his last as a professional cyclist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE ARMSTRONG, PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: The biggest inspiration of this decision is my children. They're the ones that make it easier to suffer, but also they're also the ones that have told me that it's time to come home. And so without them, none of this would be possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The 33-year-old Armstrong survived testicular cancer to become the best there has ever been on a bicycle.

A look at the weather again this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

Ahead, Martha Stewart irons out a deal with Sirius Satellite Radio. Andy tells us just how her new gig reunites her with an old friend. That's ahead in "Minding Your Business."

And a follow-up to a story we first told you about on Monday about a nightmarish voyage on a cruise ship. An angry passenger and a company spokesman will talk about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: More on the story that we first told you about Monday. Could a huge wave that hit a Norwegian cruise ship been avoided? The 70-foot wave hit a cruise line ship off the coast of Georgia, injuring at least four people, damaging dozens of cabins. Passengers described the scene as terrifying.

Caren Hogan was one of those passengers on the Norwegian Dawn, along with her husband and her two sons, talking with us this morning.

Thanks for talking to us. We appreciate it. Tell me a little bit about how bad it got. We've seen some of the videotape inside of the waves, which look really scary. Give me a sense of what it was like for you.

CAREN HOGAN, NORWEGIAN DAWN PASSENGER: It was very frightening. About 6:30 in the morning, my husband woke my family up to show us a tornado that was off the side of the ship. And my son thought it was cool. He took a couple pictures. The water was a little rough. They had informed us that we were going to be going into some rough water.

A little while later, we saw two more tornadoes. And then at some time in the morning, the waves started getting very, very rough. At 11:00, my husband and I were in the lounge at the front of the ship playing bingo, and it was impossible to stay there.

O'BRIEN: Things were flying off?

HOGAN: No the waves were just -- they were so rough. You would hear things -- in the lounge, you know, you'd hear, like, things shaking, and the bingo board was moving, and...

O'BRIEN: Did you stay in your cabin? Did you decide to stay in the hallway?

HOGAN: No, we were...

O'BRIEN: Did you put a life preserver on the kids?

HOGAN: That was in the evening. That was at nighttime, because all day long, they tried to keep an itinerary going on. And we tried to do what they had going on, because it...

O'BRIEN: So, when did it get really bad?

HOGAN: In the nighttime.

O'BRIEN: So, it starts -- is that when you put a life preserver on?

HOGAN: I didn't put a life -- I was in the hallway outside of my cabin with a pillow and blanket, because I couldn't hear the announcements. The captain was making announcements all night long. I couldn't here them very well in my room.

O'BRIEN: Were you seriously panicked about your life? I've talked to some passengers who said they didn't think they were going to survive it, in all seriousness.

HOGAN: I kept asking the crew that was walking by my hallway if we were going to be OK.

O'BRIEN: And what did they say?

HOGAN: They were smiling. They assured us that we would be fine. But it was really frightening. You couldn't see anything. It was nighttime outside. You couldn't see what was going on outside. All you could feel, the ship was going -- it was rocking forward and back. It was rocking side to side. Side to side was scary. Very, very scary. O'BRIEN: There had been some changes...

HOGAN: It was going all night long.

O'BRIEN: There had been some changes to the itinerary. Explain to me. Were you not even supposed to -- all you passengers supposed to be on that track?

HOGAN: Right, we weren't supposed to be on that track.

O'BRIEN: When did you get notified of the change?

HOGAN: Before we got on the cruise. The cruise line, about four days before, they informed us that we needed to be back in New York at 5:00 a.m. on Sunday, as opposed to, I think, it's 8:00 a.m. We had to be back three hours early, and the passengers had to be off the ship early. And they changed the itinerary to get back quickly, and they cut out Nassau. They added time into Miami, and they added a second day at sea at the end of the trip. We wound up with a full extra day of sea at the end.

O'BRIEN: How do you think the cruise line has handled -- we're going to talk in just a moment to a spokesperson. But ho how do you think they've handled your concerns and your fears, and then at the end of the trip your complaint?

HOGAN: I personally think the cruise line made a big error in judgment.

O'BRIEN: In just the direction the ship went or in the aftermath?

HOGAN: In what they did in trying to get us back early. They're not being forthcoming about why we had to be back. They wouldn't tell us. I'm on a Web site called Cruise Critics, and we were discussing it before we went on the trip. Lots of people were on there discussing it. And everybody was very upset about it for different reasons, for missing Nassau or for being back early. And a lot of people complained.

And the cruise line offered -- a couple days before we left, they offered that you could cancel your cruise without a penalty. And if you chose to go on the cruise, they gave a $100 per cabin on-board credit as compensation. But it's unreasonable to expect people to cancel a vacation like that three days before you're leaving.

O'BRIEN: I want you just to hold still for a moment while we talk to Billy Hamlin -- Bill Hamlin, rather. He's from Norwegian Cruise Lines. He's in Miami this morning.

Thanks for talking to us, sir. We appreciate your time. Let's talk a little bit about some of the complaints that you just heard from Caren. She said she feels that the company has not been forthcoming. She says she thinks, frankly, it was just a big mistake to try to go through a storm, as opposed to maybe being more patient. Can you address some of those concerns for us? Mr. Hamlin, I'm going to stop you there for a moment, because we're obviously having a little issue with your audio. Let's try to fix those problems. We're going to continue our conversation. Obviously, Caren, we can't hear what he's going to say, and I'm interested to know how he responds.

The company has said that, in fact, they were not rushing to make a deadline. That's something that the passengers had been talking about. What makes you say that? And you're not the only passenger I've heard to say that. What gives you that opinion?

HOGAN: We needed to be back by 5:00 a.m. We had to be back by 5:00 a.m. for some reason that they wouldn't say. And...

O'BRIEN: So they told you specifically you have to be back.

HOGAN: They told us before -- you know, before we got on the cruise, the whole itinerary change was wrapped around being back early for an unscheduled event on the ship. And that's how they referred to it. And they would not say what it was. There was a lot of rumor on the ship about what it was.

O'BRIEN: Why did you stay? I mean, some people got off in South Carolina. Why wouldn't you just get off? I mean, you had a bad experience. Why didn't you just get off and not come back to New York?

HOGAN: Because it was over. And I have to -- I can't say enough about the crew of that ship. They were -- I've heard people complaining about them. And that was not my experience. I had a crew member, her name is Dalme (ph). She stayed with me in the bingo hall when my husband left to get our son, held my hand the whole time and, you know, kept following up with me throughout the whole trip.

And another one, her name was Georgiana, I had a lot of trouble, you know, with different issues and being upset. She stayed with me and personally got me into the guest relations area. She met me up there. She met me up there twice. She made sure I got in there.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk a little more about this story. We've got to take a short break. So, I ask you to stay here. In just a moment, we're going to talk with Bill Hamlin of Norwegian Cruise Lines. That's right after this short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Bill Hamlin is the executive vice president of fleet operations for Norwegian Cruise Lines. He joins us from Miami this morning.

Mr. Hamlin, first, my apologies for our audio difficulties and thank you for talking with us. The question I asked you before the break was that we've just heard from Ms. Hogan that she feels the company has not been forthcoming. She also feels that, frankly, just a big mistake was made, maybe by the captain, in going straight through this storm. Can you address those concerns? BILL HAMLIN, NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINES: Sure. And thanks for having me on this morning. Actually, we would have been in that same track whether or not we came from Miami or from Nassau at that particular point in the return to New York. We had been in the storm situation for several hours during the night. And, in fact, we were running about 10 hours behind, because we had reduced to what we call steering speed for safety and for convenience of the guests. Steering speed is between about 4 and 6 knots, whereas the ship has the capability of going as much as 23 knots.

The captain was trying to be very prudent in terms of how he navigated around the storm. We have very sophisticated bridge technology, and we can track a storm. And together, while working with our people in Miami, we were actually trying to steer around the storm and stay in the seas that were less rough.

O'BRIEN: But let me ask you a question. If you've got the sophisticated technology and you can pretty easily track a storm, how did you end up in the storm in the first place? Wouldn't you be able to know -- I mean, we were looking at videotape of what looked like to me to be tornadoes. And some people have the still pictures, which we can show as well, of these little funnel clouds forming. How would the captain not know that at a certain location there was a storm or going to be a storm?

HAMLIN: Well, we knew that there was a storm, a low pressure system in the area. And it was supposed to continue to move away. And my understanding is it was kind of being held there by a high pressure system. Again, these ships are very robust. They are built to go through storm situations, just like airplanes are built to go through storms. And we were heading back to New York. We felt that was the best track that we could take. And sometimes storms cannot be avoided. But we felt we were doing the right thing in terms of the track we were taking.

O'BRIEN: You have given a 50 percent refund, a 50 percent discount. Do you think the company should do more for some people who feel truly, I think it's fair to say, traumatized by the trip that they took?

HAMLIN: I know it was unfortunate for some of our guests. It was a difficult situation for them. I think they handled it well in the circumstance. I believe the company has gone out with an appropriate gesture. I'm not in the marketing department, so it's probably inappropriate for me to respond to that, other than we did also make arrangements for those people who wanted to get off in Charleston to be able to take a charter flight back to Newark, New Jersey. And we made other arrangements for people to get to their final destinations.

So, I think the company did try to do the best for the guests, and the captain and his crew tried to make people as comfortable as possible in the situation.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Bill Hamlin from Norwegian Cruise Lines joining us this morning. Caren joining as well. Thanks for telling us your story, Caren Hogan, who was traveling with her family.

A short break is ahead. We're back in just a moment. We're talking about Martha Stewart. She's headed back to radio. It's all thanks to one of her old friends. Andy will explain as he minds your business up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Here's a question for you. What do NASCAR, Howard Stern and Martha Stewart all have in common? Plus, we're talking about investors who are still waiting for stocks to turn around. Andy Serwer has got all of that as he minds your business this morning.

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad. You know, I like business riddles. I mean, it's a new category.

O'BRIEN: Would you like that every morning?

SERWER: Actually, no.

O'BRIEN: NASCAR.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Martha Stewart and Howard Stern.

SERWER: They run around a lot, maybe? Is that it? OK, we're talking about Sirius Satellite Radio. As you may know, Martha Stewart signing a deal yesterday. It's not for a radio program, though. It's for a whole station on Sirius Satellite Radio, and it reunites her with her old pal, Mel Karmazin. She used to do radio over on CBS, and her show was on King World, which was also owned by Viacom that Mel was the number two guy over there.

It's $30 million over four years, not as big as Howard's 730 million deal or $107 million deal for NASCAR. But the big thing here for Sirius is that they're going to attract women listeners. And so far, Sirius and XM have been mostly the domain of males. Martha Stewart does more in one day of house arrest than I do in an entire week. I mean, this is a woman under house arrest.

O'BRIEN: If we could just get you an ankle bracelet.

SERWER: Yes, boy, I'd be really productive.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Your bosses have noticed that.

SERWER: Yes. And they're going to get me an ankle bracelet and make sure they know where I am at all times.

Let's talk about the market yesterday. We sort of stopped the bleeding, sort of, at least for the Nasdaq and the S&P Dow is still down a little bit. And in the middle of earnings season, futures are kind of flat this morning. Coca-Cola is coming in with earnings below what the Street was looking for -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thank you very much.

The "Question of the Day" is a great one.

CAFFERTY: A growing number of pharmacists are refusing to fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called a pharmacist's right of conscience, and it's being questioned in 23 states.

Some lawmakers are warning legislation that would allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions that they disagree with. There's a great idea. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill prescriptions without delay. Period.

The question is this: Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?

Bruce in Wisconsin: "There are things I have to do during my day I don't like. There are people I deal every day I don't like. I still have to work with them and render my service. These holier- than-thou pharmacists either dispense the prescription as written by the doctor or find another line of work. And if it takes a law, so be it."

Jennifer in Pennsylvania: "Once again, it's women bearing the brunt of someone else's screwed-up idea of morality. A pharmacist won't fill a prescription for birth control but turns around and fills one for Viagra, Levitra, et al, give me a break."

Jack writes: "It's fundamentally against the pharmacist's belief if it is to fill a prescription, then he or she should follow their conscience."

Brian in South Carolina: "Sometimes birth control is a medical necessity, sometimes it's for hormonal balance, sometimes it's because a pregnancy is dangerous to the mother. Why someone is on birth control is none of the pharmacist's business."

Joe in New York writes: "Since this is a capitalistic society, any pharmacy should be allowed to refuse to fill a prescription. However, it should require that such establishments post a sign out front that reads, 'Your prescription may be denied if they in any way conflict with our fascist, fundamentalist beliefs.'"

O'BRIEN: I was sort of with him for a moment, and then he kind of...

SERWER: Yes. Pharmacists are kind of taking it on the chin here a little bit.

O'BRIEN: That's an interesting question, though. All right, Jack, thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: Yes. O'BRIEN: A look at the day's top stories are just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. And we'll take you back to Oklahoma City as well. Stay with us. We're back in a moment.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.

Aired April 19, 2005 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Carol.
April 19, 1995, many people have spent the past 10 years of their lives trying to forget that terrible day. But there is one survivor doing what she can to make sure that day is never forgotten.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER (voice over): Polly Nichols still wonders why she made it and so many others did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smoke billowing from the federal court building downtown.

HEMMER: Flying glass severed her jugular and left a hole in her esophagus. She was the first victim in surgery that awful April morning.

POLLY NICHOLS, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'm blessed. I'm fortunate. I'm lucky. Everything went very well for me.

HEMMER (on camera): That's the Journal Building, right?

NICHOLS: Journal Records..

HEMMER: So, you were on the left side over here.

(voice over): Nichols was working in the building across the street.

(on camera): The building is 80 years old, right?

NICHOLS: Yes.

HEMMER: Good construction.

NICHOLS: It's a wonderful building.

HEMMER (voice over): She spent nine days in the hospital, with the window overlooking the destroyed federal building.

NICHOLS: It was kind of cold and rainy, and the huge search lights were just pouring down onto the site, and it made it very uncomfortable. The trees around...

HEMMER: For 10 long years, she has used her pain to teach the lesson that violence is not the answer for political change. Nichols helped raise the millions needed to do build a world class memorial and museum. It is personal in countless ways.

NICHOLS: Doris Hidel Higgenbottom (ph).

HEMMER: Higgenbottom (ph) was her cousin, age 44, killed on the fifth floor of the Murrah Building, remembered, like the others, with a bronze granite and glass chair.

NICHOLS: She was in the time of her life, a very happy time of her life. She had planted a garden. And her life will not be lost in vain. I promise you that.

HEMMER: She also promises that in her second chance at life, this sacred ground will touch people.

NICHOLS: OK, let's leave.

HEMMER: Forever.

NICHOLS: Nothing we do can change the past, but everything we do can change the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Polly Nichols serves on the board of the Oklahoma City National Memorial and Museum. Officially, that's her title. But in so many ways, she does so much more for the people of Oklahoma.

More in a moment here. Back to Soledad now in New York.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thanks.

In Providence, Rhode Island, authorities are investigating the killing of a police detective inside police headquarters on Sunday. Police caught the suspect who made his first court appearance on Monday. Well, now the suspect's family wants to know what happened while he was in police custody.

CNN's Jason Carroll has our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This story is about the faces of two very different people. There's the badly bruised and swollen face of Esteban Carpio (ph). Some of his family were removed from court after they first saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) not guilty. Not guilty. Tell them (INAUDIBLE), Stephen!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His face is mess! They massacred him! I'm surprised he's still alive, the way he looks.

CARROLL: Carpio's (ph) face was so swollen, he wore what correction officers call a spit shield, a mask to protect his wounds and prevent him from spitting. But Providence, Rhode Island police are focused on this face: Detective James Allen. Police say Carpio (ph) shot and killed Allen, a husband and father of two. But officers sense that fact is getting lost in all of the allegations over what happened to Carpio (ph) while in police custody.

CHIEF DEAN ESSERMAN, PROVIDENCE POLICE: This is Detective Allen. We will present this photograph to all of you. Please remember this man, because we will.

CARROLL: Police say as Allen interrogated Carpio (ph) Sunday about his possible involvement in the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman, Carpio (ph) grabbed Allen's gun, fatally shot the detective, jumped out a third floor window and ran. Two Rhode Island state troopers, a police officer and an FBI agent caught him a few blocks away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, when we went to the hospital and we talked to the police, they said he only had a leg injury, minor lacerations. They wouldn't let us see him. Seeing him now, his whole face is massacred.

"ED", SUSPECT'S UNCLE: We tried to get this boy hospital help, psychiatric help, and he was released a number of times in the last 30 days. But we are very sorry about what happened, but he obviously has been beaten very badly.

CARROLL (on camera): Police say there is a time and place to talk about what happened to Carpio (ph), and they say now is not that time. But they did provide some details surrounding what happened during his capture.

ESSERMAN: He jumped out of a third story window. And he struggled in a tough struggle to be apprehended on the ground. When I saw him, he was pretty cut up. More than that, I don't know.

CARROLL (voice over): An investigation is under way. Police say they're not deaf to the family's allegations, but for now, their focus is on burying one of their own. Officer Allen's funeral is Thursday.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Carpio (ph) was charged with murder. He didn't enter a plea in court on Monday. A judge ordered him held without bail.

More details today on the deadly shooting rampage in a Minnesota high school last month. Authorities say the attack in which 16-year- old Jeff Weise killed seven people at the school lasted only nine minutes. Earlier in the day, Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend. Police say Weise's e-mail and journal showed that he thought about the shootings well in advance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HEFFELFINGER, U.S. ATTORNEY: The investigation to date does not give any indication of any individuals being specifically targeted, other than perhaps his grandfather and his girlfriend. But that the attack on the school itself had been planned by Mr. Weise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Authorities also say that Weise was hit three times in the exchange with police before he killed himself.

A Boston fan is paying the price for interfering with New York Yankees outfielder Gary Sheffield during a game last week. The incident occurred, you will recall, at Fenway Park as Sheffield was fielding a ball along the right field wall. The fan's Red Sox tickets were revoked for the 2005 season. Another fan who spilled beer on Sheffield was banned from buying tickets for the rest of this year.

And he is still in the race, but Lance Armstrong can see the finish line. Armstrong has won the Tour de France six straight times. He announced on Monday this year's race will be his last as a professional cyclist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE ARMSTRONG, PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: The biggest inspiration of this decision is my children. They're the ones that make it easier to suffer, but also they're also the ones that have told me that it's time to come home. And so without them, none of this would be possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The 33-year-old Armstrong survived testicular cancer to become the best there has ever been on a bicycle.

A look at the weather again this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

Ahead, Martha Stewart irons out a deal with Sirius Satellite Radio. Andy tells us just how her new gig reunites her with an old friend. That's ahead in "Minding Your Business."

And a follow-up to a story we first told you about on Monday about a nightmarish voyage on a cruise ship. An angry passenger and a company spokesman will talk about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: More on the story that we first told you about Monday. Could a huge wave that hit a Norwegian cruise ship been avoided? The 70-foot wave hit a cruise line ship off the coast of Georgia, injuring at least four people, damaging dozens of cabins. Passengers described the scene as terrifying.

Caren Hogan was one of those passengers on the Norwegian Dawn, along with her husband and her two sons, talking with us this morning.

Thanks for talking to us. We appreciate it. Tell me a little bit about how bad it got. We've seen some of the videotape inside of the waves, which look really scary. Give me a sense of what it was like for you.

CAREN HOGAN, NORWEGIAN DAWN PASSENGER: It was very frightening. About 6:30 in the morning, my husband woke my family up to show us a tornado that was off the side of the ship. And my son thought it was cool. He took a couple pictures. The water was a little rough. They had informed us that we were going to be going into some rough water.

A little while later, we saw two more tornadoes. And then at some time in the morning, the waves started getting very, very rough. At 11:00, my husband and I were in the lounge at the front of the ship playing bingo, and it was impossible to stay there.

O'BRIEN: Things were flying off?

HOGAN: No the waves were just -- they were so rough. You would hear things -- in the lounge, you know, you'd hear, like, things shaking, and the bingo board was moving, and...

O'BRIEN: Did you stay in your cabin? Did you decide to stay in the hallway?

HOGAN: No, we were...

O'BRIEN: Did you put a life preserver on the kids?

HOGAN: That was in the evening. That was at nighttime, because all day long, they tried to keep an itinerary going on. And we tried to do what they had going on, because it...

O'BRIEN: So, when did it get really bad?

HOGAN: In the nighttime.

O'BRIEN: So, it starts -- is that when you put a life preserver on?

HOGAN: I didn't put a life -- I was in the hallway outside of my cabin with a pillow and blanket, because I couldn't hear the announcements. The captain was making announcements all night long. I couldn't here them very well in my room.

O'BRIEN: Were you seriously panicked about your life? I've talked to some passengers who said they didn't think they were going to survive it, in all seriousness.

HOGAN: I kept asking the crew that was walking by my hallway if we were going to be OK.

O'BRIEN: And what did they say?

HOGAN: They were smiling. They assured us that we would be fine. But it was really frightening. You couldn't see anything. It was nighttime outside. You couldn't see what was going on outside. All you could feel, the ship was going -- it was rocking forward and back. It was rocking side to side. Side to side was scary. Very, very scary. O'BRIEN: There had been some changes...

HOGAN: It was going all night long.

O'BRIEN: There had been some changes to the itinerary. Explain to me. Were you not even supposed to -- all you passengers supposed to be on that track?

HOGAN: Right, we weren't supposed to be on that track.

O'BRIEN: When did you get notified of the change?

HOGAN: Before we got on the cruise. The cruise line, about four days before, they informed us that we needed to be back in New York at 5:00 a.m. on Sunday, as opposed to, I think, it's 8:00 a.m. We had to be back three hours early, and the passengers had to be off the ship early. And they changed the itinerary to get back quickly, and they cut out Nassau. They added time into Miami, and they added a second day at sea at the end of the trip. We wound up with a full extra day of sea at the end.

O'BRIEN: How do you think the cruise line has handled -- we're going to talk in just a moment to a spokesperson. But ho how do you think they've handled your concerns and your fears, and then at the end of the trip your complaint?

HOGAN: I personally think the cruise line made a big error in judgment.

O'BRIEN: In just the direction the ship went or in the aftermath?

HOGAN: In what they did in trying to get us back early. They're not being forthcoming about why we had to be back. They wouldn't tell us. I'm on a Web site called Cruise Critics, and we were discussing it before we went on the trip. Lots of people were on there discussing it. And everybody was very upset about it for different reasons, for missing Nassau or for being back early. And a lot of people complained.

And the cruise line offered -- a couple days before we left, they offered that you could cancel your cruise without a penalty. And if you chose to go on the cruise, they gave a $100 per cabin on-board credit as compensation. But it's unreasonable to expect people to cancel a vacation like that three days before you're leaving.

O'BRIEN: I want you just to hold still for a moment while we talk to Billy Hamlin -- Bill Hamlin, rather. He's from Norwegian Cruise Lines. He's in Miami this morning.

Thanks for talking to us, sir. We appreciate your time. Let's talk a little bit about some of the complaints that you just heard from Caren. She said she feels that the company has not been forthcoming. She says she thinks, frankly, it was just a big mistake to try to go through a storm, as opposed to maybe being more patient. Can you address some of those concerns for us? Mr. Hamlin, I'm going to stop you there for a moment, because we're obviously having a little issue with your audio. Let's try to fix those problems. We're going to continue our conversation. Obviously, Caren, we can't hear what he's going to say, and I'm interested to know how he responds.

The company has said that, in fact, they were not rushing to make a deadline. That's something that the passengers had been talking about. What makes you say that? And you're not the only passenger I've heard to say that. What gives you that opinion?

HOGAN: We needed to be back by 5:00 a.m. We had to be back by 5:00 a.m. for some reason that they wouldn't say. And...

O'BRIEN: So they told you specifically you have to be back.

HOGAN: They told us before -- you know, before we got on the cruise, the whole itinerary change was wrapped around being back early for an unscheduled event on the ship. And that's how they referred to it. And they would not say what it was. There was a lot of rumor on the ship about what it was.

O'BRIEN: Why did you stay? I mean, some people got off in South Carolina. Why wouldn't you just get off? I mean, you had a bad experience. Why didn't you just get off and not come back to New York?

HOGAN: Because it was over. And I have to -- I can't say enough about the crew of that ship. They were -- I've heard people complaining about them. And that was not my experience. I had a crew member, her name is Dalme (ph). She stayed with me in the bingo hall when my husband left to get our son, held my hand the whole time and, you know, kept following up with me throughout the whole trip.

And another one, her name was Georgiana, I had a lot of trouble, you know, with different issues and being upset. She stayed with me and personally got me into the guest relations area. She met me up there. She met me up there twice. She made sure I got in there.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk a little more about this story. We've got to take a short break. So, I ask you to stay here. In just a moment, we're going to talk with Bill Hamlin of Norwegian Cruise Lines. That's right after this short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Bill Hamlin is the executive vice president of fleet operations for Norwegian Cruise Lines. He joins us from Miami this morning.

Mr. Hamlin, first, my apologies for our audio difficulties and thank you for talking with us. The question I asked you before the break was that we've just heard from Ms. Hogan that she feels the company has not been forthcoming. She also feels that, frankly, just a big mistake was made, maybe by the captain, in going straight through this storm. Can you address those concerns? BILL HAMLIN, NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINES: Sure. And thanks for having me on this morning. Actually, we would have been in that same track whether or not we came from Miami or from Nassau at that particular point in the return to New York. We had been in the storm situation for several hours during the night. And, in fact, we were running about 10 hours behind, because we had reduced to what we call steering speed for safety and for convenience of the guests. Steering speed is between about 4 and 6 knots, whereas the ship has the capability of going as much as 23 knots.

The captain was trying to be very prudent in terms of how he navigated around the storm. We have very sophisticated bridge technology, and we can track a storm. And together, while working with our people in Miami, we were actually trying to steer around the storm and stay in the seas that were less rough.

O'BRIEN: But let me ask you a question. If you've got the sophisticated technology and you can pretty easily track a storm, how did you end up in the storm in the first place? Wouldn't you be able to know -- I mean, we were looking at videotape of what looked like to me to be tornadoes. And some people have the still pictures, which we can show as well, of these little funnel clouds forming. How would the captain not know that at a certain location there was a storm or going to be a storm?

HAMLIN: Well, we knew that there was a storm, a low pressure system in the area. And it was supposed to continue to move away. And my understanding is it was kind of being held there by a high pressure system. Again, these ships are very robust. They are built to go through storm situations, just like airplanes are built to go through storms. And we were heading back to New York. We felt that was the best track that we could take. And sometimes storms cannot be avoided. But we felt we were doing the right thing in terms of the track we were taking.

O'BRIEN: You have given a 50 percent refund, a 50 percent discount. Do you think the company should do more for some people who feel truly, I think it's fair to say, traumatized by the trip that they took?

HAMLIN: I know it was unfortunate for some of our guests. It was a difficult situation for them. I think they handled it well in the circumstance. I believe the company has gone out with an appropriate gesture. I'm not in the marketing department, so it's probably inappropriate for me to respond to that, other than we did also make arrangements for those people who wanted to get off in Charleston to be able to take a charter flight back to Newark, New Jersey. And we made other arrangements for people to get to their final destinations.

So, I think the company did try to do the best for the guests, and the captain and his crew tried to make people as comfortable as possible in the situation.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Bill Hamlin from Norwegian Cruise Lines joining us this morning. Caren joining as well. Thanks for telling us your story, Caren Hogan, who was traveling with her family.

A short break is ahead. We're back in just a moment. We're talking about Martha Stewart. She's headed back to radio. It's all thanks to one of her old friends. Andy will explain as he minds your business up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Here's a question for you. What do NASCAR, Howard Stern and Martha Stewart all have in common? Plus, we're talking about investors who are still waiting for stocks to turn around. Andy Serwer has got all of that as he minds your business this morning.

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad. You know, I like business riddles. I mean, it's a new category.

O'BRIEN: Would you like that every morning?

SERWER: Actually, no.

O'BRIEN: NASCAR.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Martha Stewart and Howard Stern.

SERWER: They run around a lot, maybe? Is that it? OK, we're talking about Sirius Satellite Radio. As you may know, Martha Stewart signing a deal yesterday. It's not for a radio program, though. It's for a whole station on Sirius Satellite Radio, and it reunites her with her old pal, Mel Karmazin. She used to do radio over on CBS, and her show was on King World, which was also owned by Viacom that Mel was the number two guy over there.

It's $30 million over four years, not as big as Howard's 730 million deal or $107 million deal for NASCAR. But the big thing here for Sirius is that they're going to attract women listeners. And so far, Sirius and XM have been mostly the domain of males. Martha Stewart does more in one day of house arrest than I do in an entire week. I mean, this is a woman under house arrest.

O'BRIEN: If we could just get you an ankle bracelet.

SERWER: Yes, boy, I'd be really productive.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Your bosses have noticed that.

SERWER: Yes. And they're going to get me an ankle bracelet and make sure they know where I am at all times.

Let's talk about the market yesterday. We sort of stopped the bleeding, sort of, at least for the Nasdaq and the S&P Dow is still down a little bit. And in the middle of earnings season, futures are kind of flat this morning. Coca-Cola is coming in with earnings below what the Street was looking for -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thank you very much.

The "Question of the Day" is a great one.

CAFFERTY: A growing number of pharmacists are refusing to fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called a pharmacist's right of conscience, and it's being questioned in 23 states.

Some lawmakers are warning legislation that would allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions that they disagree with. There's a great idea. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill prescriptions without delay. Period.

The question is this: Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?

Bruce in Wisconsin: "There are things I have to do during my day I don't like. There are people I deal every day I don't like. I still have to work with them and render my service. These holier- than-thou pharmacists either dispense the prescription as written by the doctor or find another line of work. And if it takes a law, so be it."

Jennifer in Pennsylvania: "Once again, it's women bearing the brunt of someone else's screwed-up idea of morality. A pharmacist won't fill a prescription for birth control but turns around and fills one for Viagra, Levitra, et al, give me a break."

Jack writes: "It's fundamentally against the pharmacist's belief if it is to fill a prescription, then he or she should follow their conscience."

Brian in South Carolina: "Sometimes birth control is a medical necessity, sometimes it's for hormonal balance, sometimes it's because a pregnancy is dangerous to the mother. Why someone is on birth control is none of the pharmacist's business."

Joe in New York writes: "Since this is a capitalistic society, any pharmacy should be allowed to refuse to fill a prescription. However, it should require that such establishments post a sign out front that reads, 'Your prescription may be denied if they in any way conflict with our fascist, fundamentalist beliefs.'"

O'BRIEN: I was sort of with him for a moment, and then he kind of...

SERWER: Yes. Pharmacists are kind of taking it on the chin here a little bit.

O'BRIEN: That's an interesting question, though. All right, Jack, thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: Yes. O'BRIEN: A look at the day's top stories are just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. And we'll take you back to Oklahoma City as well. Stay with us. We're back in a moment.

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