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American Morning
Oklahoma City Prepares for Memorial; Afternoon Session of Conclave Begins; BTK Case
Aired April 19, 2005 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Oklahoma City, 10 years after the bombing that forever changed this community and the country, now getting ready for a special memorial to victims this morning.
Also, from the Vatican, the smoke is black again today. No pope yet, but the cardinals will try again on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer reporting from Oklahoma City and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Lots happening in Oklahoma City, in Vatican City and elsewhere to tell you about.
Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, good morning. I'm in Oklahoma City today.
We're awaiting a very special memorial that will begin in about an hour from now. That starts at around 10:00 Eastern Time, 9:00 here Central Time.
Also in a moment here, we'll talk with two women who had their lives ripped apart that day, a mother and a grandmother, reminding us so much of this tragedy, especially hitting their lives and their families. Their stories in a moment here -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Bill, a shocking scene in a Rhode Island courtroom. We're going to find out what happened to this man. He's an accused cop killer. His family, though, is saying that he is the victim. We'll explain.
Jack Cafferty got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed. A growing number of pharmacists, Soledad, around the country have been refusing to fill prescriptions on moral grounds, prescriptions for things like birth control and the morning after pill. Should that be allowed or should there be a law against it? AM@CNN.com is the e-mail address.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thanks.
Let's get right back out to Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City. Hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey. Soledad.
I mentioned the time a short time ago, 9:02 a.m. Central Time. That was the minute that that bombing ripped through this country 10 years ago. This time, the nation will pause to remember what happened here exactly 10 years ago.
Edye Lucas lost her two sons in the bombing in the federal building. Her mother, Kathy Sanders, has written a book. A book that's called "After Oklahoma City: A Grieving Grandmother Uncovers Shocking Truths About the Bombing and Herself."
Edye Lucas and Kathy Sanders with me now in Oklahoma City.
Nice to see both of you.
EDYE LUCAS, LOST TWO SONS IN BOMBING: Thank you.
KATHY SANDERS, "AFTER OKLAHOMA CITY": Thank you.
HEMMER: And thank you for your time.
What is your feeling coming back here now on the 10-year anniversary?
LUCAS: You know, it's been such a long 10 years. But I miss my kids as much today as I did a week after the bombing. It gets easier with time, but it's still -- it's still difficult. But I'm appreciative for everything that I have, and I'm glad I was their mother for the short time that I was.
HEMMER: Sure.
Kathy, you have struck up a very interesting relationship. You have met Terry Nichols in prison. You've had dinner with the McVeigh family. What did you learn from that?
SANDERS: I learned that some people that I thought were enemies were indeed victims like myself.
HEMMER: What did you ask them, Kathy?
SANDERS: Well, I didn't ask them questions about the bombing. It -- you know it kind of put them on the spot during the trial. So it's been a long journey. You know, my life has changed.
If you'd ever asked me year ago what would I have done if someone had killed my grandchildren, I'd say, well I'd kill them. But that's not what happened. You know, now I've been in their shoes, and I've done things that I never thought that I would do. But it's been very important to me to find out the truth.
HEMMER: Wow. That is so interesting, too. And so through those relationships you've been able, in a sense, to heal in a different way?
SANDERS: That's right. You know, I had a choice to make 10 years ago. I didn't know if I was going to survive, and I think the choices we make enable us to survive. And the right thing for me to do was to try to find out the truth, to find out what happened. And I found, along the way, that in order to help myself, I found a lot of help for myself in helping others.
HEMMER: Edye, you've remarried. And you have' got some news, by the way.
LUCAS: I do. I just found out last week I have a baby on the way, or babies. I went through an IBF (ph) cycle thanks to Dr. Rochet (ph) at Bennett Fertility Institute in Oklahoma City. I'm pregnant, and I'm so excited. And...
HEMMER: And this is also a strong sign about how life continues here.
LUCAS: It does.
HEMMER: How many people here -- tell us about how much hope they have for the future in Oklahoma.
LUCAS: There's a lot of hope for me and I think for my family. And I think Oklahomans are just strong individuals. And I think we've all pulled together, and we've just proven that you can overcome tragedy.
And I have a wonderful life. I'm grateful and happy and content. And that's just the way it is for me.
HEMMER: Really striking the note of optimism today. And I think it's wonderful to hear also. You have a 7-year-old son.
LUCAS: I have a 7-year-old son.
HEMMER: What do you tell him about your loss?
LUCAS: He knows everything. He knows about his brothers. He loves to go to the museum.
He's just intrigued by the photographs. And he asks questions all the time. And he's a smart little boy, and he knows.
If I've learned anything, you can't shelter your children. That's for sure.
HEMMER: You learned something from your daughter through this, Kathy?
SANDERS: I have. She's been a remarkable strength for me. You know, after the bombing, I just crumbled. I was just so hurt.
And if it hadn't been for Edye, I couldn't be here today the way that I am. She's a -- she's a huge source of strength, and she's a wonderful person. And I'm just so proud to have her as my daughter. I'm proud to have been Chase (ph) and Colton's (ph) grandmother.
You know, we're here 10 years later, but Edye and I have managed to have -- we have a song in our heart and a smile in our face. Life is good and it's going to get better.
HEMMER: Thanks for sharing. It's good to hear, too. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks, Edye.
LUCAS: Thank you.
HEMMER: And good luck, OK? Stay healthy.
More from Oklahoma City in a moment -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: To the Vatican now. Roman Catholic cardinals begin the afternoon session of their conclave. It starts in just about an hour from now. The morning session refused -- failed, rather, to produce a new pope. Black smoke blew out of the Sistine Chapel chimney just over three hours ago at the end of the morning session.
CNN Vatican analyst John Allen is watching and waiting with the rest of us.
John, nice to have you back again. Let's get right to it.
This is the first time that the start of the conclave has been broadcast live and on those big giant screens in the middle of the plaza. Did John Paul II have an impact on that happening?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, Soledad. I mean, I don't think John Paul II left specific indications as to how this was going to work in terms of media exposure. But I do think there's a sense that it's of a peace with his life, the kind of unique openness we're seeing.
And I think I would wind the clock back, actually, and say, during the last days of his life we got a remarkable degree of disclosure, of medical information from the Vatican. Then, you'll remember, we got those stunning images of his body in the casket in his private chapel surrounded by his most intimate aides and collaborators. And then we have gotten these remarkable images for the first time inside the Sistine Chapel.
I mean, while there is obviously a kind of shadow of secrecy around this process, by historical standards it has been remarkably open, just like the papacy that preceded it.
O'BRIEN: I want you to explain something that confuses me a little bit. The cardinals can vote up to four times a day, and yet we've only seen two puffs of smoke, one for each vote. Does that mean that they've only been voting two times a day? Why wouldn't they be voting the full four times a day that they'd be able to vote?
ALLEN: Yes, they are, actually, we assume, Soledad. The way it works is they only burn the ballots after the second ballot of the morning. In other words, if the first ballot is inconclusive, it doesn't get to two-thirds of the vote for a particular candidate and, therefore, there is no pope, they go directly to a second ballot, and they only burn the ballots afterwards. And that will be the same procedure for the afternoon.
So if the fourth and fifth ballots are also inconclusive, we'll see one puff of smoke this evening, and it would be black. Of course, if we see white smoke, on the other hand, something magical has happened, we've got a pope.
O'BRIEN: How long does it take, not just for the full conclave, however long that takes, but for the actual physical ballot balloting of each cardinal who gets to cast a vote?
ALLEN: Yes, this isn't like a kind of school, you know, class president election, where it's simply a matter of raising your hands. It is actually a very complicated and highly scripted process.
Each cardinal writes out the name of the candidate he wants to vote for on a piece of paper that was designed personally by Paul VI, John Paul II's predecessor, plus one. Then they each process up by one, put that ballot on a plate, and then drop the ballot into an urn. And then those ballots are counted by a set of three cardinals chosen by a lot (ph), and another set of three cardinals behind them count it to make sure that first count was accurate.
So the whole process takes about an hour to unfold. This is why they go in at four. But if we have two ballots that are inconclusive, we may not see smoke until somewhere in the 6:00 hour local time.
O'BRIEN: That explains it. John Allen, as always, thank you very much for clarifying lots for us. We appreciate it.
ALLEN: Sure thing.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines now with Carol Costello.
Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," the only person in the United States charged in connection with the September 11 terror attacks could plead guilty. According to the "The Washington Post," Zacarias Moussaoui is planning to admit he aided al Qaeda. The charges are likely to send him to death row.
The plea could come this week if he's ruled mentally competent. Moussaoui tried to plead guilty in 2002, but then he changed his mind.
At least four people have been killed in a suicide car bombing near Saddam Hussein's former palace. The building in northern Baghdad is now being used as a base for Iraqi and coalition forces. It also serves as a recruitment center for the new Iraqi military. Some 40 other people were wounded in that attack.
A CNN "Security Watch" now. The Homeland Security Department is calling for new technology at airports. It seems hidden weapons continue to slip -- continue to slip in, I should say, past checkpoints.
The department says most screeners are doing a good job but need improved screening equipment, especially to check for plastic weapons. Two studies on airport screening are being released this week.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
And baseball commissioner Bud Selig is reportedly looking for a closer look at steroid use in baseball. According to sources cited by "The New York Times," Selig told lawmakers he may hire an outside investigator if Congress decides to scale back its probe.
Let's check on the weather now, head to Atlanta and Chad Myers.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: The suspected killer known as BTK is due in a Wichita, Kansas, court in just about an hour. Dennis Rader is accused of murdering 10 people in the 1970s. This is the first time that Radar could hear the prosecution's evidence against him.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is outside the courthouse in Wichita this morning.
Hey, Chris. Good morning.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Well, the Wichita police chief went on TV to say BTK has been arrested. But so far, we haven't heard any evidence to prove it. For the first time today, we may finally start to hear how one killer could taunt police for some 30 years without getting caught.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): The case began when a man, his wife and two children were murdered in their own home, strangled in 1974.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BTK stands for bind, torture and kill.
LAWRENCE: And this killer communicated. He sent letters to local papers and TV stations and called in his own crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will find a homicide at 843 South Pershing.
LAWRENCE: More young women were found bound and strangled over the next five years. Then in 1979, BTK just disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not have any concrete leads as to who this individual is.
LAWRENCE: It would be 25 years before he communicated again. In February, police arrested this man, Dennis Rader, who is now accused of 10 murders.
PROF. BRIAN WITHROW, WICHITA STATE UNIVERSITY: This is the end game.
LAWRENCE: Criminal justice professor Brian Withrow says the details that could come out of this hearing will affect not only the victims' families but just about everyone who lives here.
WITHROW: Before his arrest, it was, "Could it happen to me? Who is this guy? Could it happen to me?"
After his arrest, most of the attention was focused on those of us who said, "It could have happened to me, because I knew him. I knew somebody who knew him."
LAWRENCE: And a lot of people know Rader, a married man with two grown children. He worked as a dog catcher. And as president of his local church, is a man deeply connected to his community.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: He has also been a Boy Scout leader, and he worked for one of the suburbs here. And most people feel if this case ever goes to trial, it would be somewhat difficult to find a jury that has absolutely no connection to Dennis Rader -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Chris, if he is, in fact, convicted of killing 10 people, could he face the death penalty?
LAWRENCE: Well, Kansas has had the death penalty off and on over the years. But every year in which these crimes took place Kansas did not have the death penalty. So the maximum penalty in this case is life in prison.
And if you take the death penalty out of the equation, that also leaves open the possibility that at some point a person could enter a guilty plea and just be sentenced to the sentence at that point.
O'BRIEN: Chris Lawrence for us this morning. Chris, thanks a lot.
And let's go back to Bill Hemmer. He's in Oklahoma City -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.
The first victim in surgery that morning in Oklahoma City 10 years ago today, it has been a very long and painful journey for her. But she has used that pain to teach so many a critical lesson. Her story a bit later this hour here live in Oklahoma City on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Authorities in Providence, Rhode Island, are investigating the killing of a police detective on Sunday inside police headquarters. Police caught the suspect, who made his first court appearance on Monday, and now the suspect's family wants to know what happened to him while he was in police custody.
CNN's Jason Carroll explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This story is about the faces of two very different people. There's the badly bruised and swollen face of Esteban Carpio. Some of his family were removed from court after they first saw him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Steven, tell them not guilty. Not guilty! Tell them not guilty! Tell them not guilty, Steven!
DELORES, SUSPECT'S AUNT: His face has been massacred. They massacred him. I'm surprised he's still alive the way he looks.
CARROLL: Carpio's face was so swollen he wore what correction officers call a spit shield, a mask to protect his wounds and protect him from spitting. But Providence, Rhode Island, police are focused on this face, Detective James Allen.
Police say Carpio shot and killed Allen, a husband and father of two. But officers sense that fact is getting lost in all the allegations over what happened to Carpio while in police custody.
CHIEF DEAN ESSERMAN, PROVIDENCE POLICE: This is Detective Allen. We will present this photograph to all of you. Please remember this man, because we will.
CARROLL: Police say as Allen interrogated Carpio Sunday about his possible involvement in the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman, Carpio grabbed Allen's gun, fatally shot the detective, jumped out a third floor window and ran. Two Rhode Island state troopers, a police officer and an FBI agent caught him a few blocks away.
DELORES: Initially when we went to the hospital, and we talked to the police, they said he only had a leg injury and some minor lacerations. They wouldn't let us see him. Seeing him now, his whole face is just massacred.
ED, SUSPECT'S UNCLE: We tried to get this boy hospital help, psychiatric help, and he was released a number of times in the last 30 days. But we are very sorry about what happened. But he obviously has been beaten very badly.
CARROLL (on camera): Police say there is a time and a place to talk about what happened to Carpio, and they say now is not that time. But they did provide some details surrounding what happened during his capture.
ESSERMAN: He jumped out of a third story window, and he struggled in a tough struggle to be apprehended on the ground. When I saw him, he was pretty cut up. More than that, I don't know.
CARROLL (voice-over): An investigation is under way. Police say they're not deaf to the family's allegations, but for now, their focus is on burying one of their own. Officer Allen's funeral is Thursday.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Carpio, charged with murder, did not enter a plea in court on Monday. A judge ordered him held without bail.
In a moment, chaos at sea. Did that Norwegian cruise liner spend more time in stormy weather than it had to? An angry passenger tells us why she thinks that was the case.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Remember Patrick McCarthy? He's the 8-year-old kid who was saved when a truck came barreling down toward him. He was saved by Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. Well, when he and his dad dropped by our show on Monday, Patrick made kind of a bold prediction. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK MCCARTHY, SAVED BY ALEX RODRIGUEZ: When I go there, the Yankees are going to have a long winning streak.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, really? Tell me about this.
MCCARTHY: Well, I think when I get there the Yankees are going to win lots and lots of games.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Well, guess what? Patrick did go to the game last night at Yankee Stadium. The results, just as he predicted, a 19-8 route with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, fueled by none other than A-Rod, his favorite. He homered twice, doubled twice, and finished with five hits and six RBIs.
Go Patrick! How glad are the Yankees for this kid?
CAFFERTY: What happened?
O'BRIEN: He's a lucky charm. You stop! OK. Then I'm not going to ask you about the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: I was reading my script over and I missed it. A growing number of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called a pharmacist's right of conscience, and it's being questioned in at least 23 states.
Some lawmakers want a law that would allow pharmacists to refuse refill prescriptions they disagree with. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill any legal prescription without delay.
So the question this morning has generated a lot of mail, actually. Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?
A doctor in Baltimore, Maryland, named Josh writes, "Couldn't agree with you more, Jack. If pharmacists want to be able to pick and choose what prescriptions to fill they should go to medical school. It's difficult enough for many young women to get access to birth control and emergency contraception without the pharmacists enforcing their morality on them."
Lucy in Connecticut writes, "Why do you only read the e-mails that agree with your hidden agenda? Get my drift? I dare you to read one of the provocative pro-life e-mails instead of the pro-death, poor choice e-mails that you tip the scale of your telecast commentary with."
OK, Lucy. It's been done. Now leave me alone.
Dave in Japan writes, "Jack, pharmacists refusing to fill doctors' prescriptions? What next, vegetarian checkout clerks not selling any meat, nonsmoking cashiers refusing to sell me cigarettes? If I want religious advice I'll get it from my pastor, not some blouse-wearing pill jockey whose job is the medical equivalent over the guy who keeps the shake machine clean at McDonald's."
O'BRIEN: OK, that was unnecessary. I mean, blouse-wearing pill jockey, your trusted pharmacist?
CAFFERTY: This is my friend Dave.
O'BRIEN: I know it's your friend Dave.
CAFFERTY: He writes to me all the time.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I realize that.
CAFFERTY: Periodically, I like to share his thoughts with the viewers at large.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know you do. All right, Jack. Thanks.
CAFFERTY: I read that other one before him, Lucy.
O'BRIEN: I know you did.
CAFFERTY: Fair and balanced. O'BRIEN: And I like the way she said, "hidden agenda." I don't think your agenda was that hidden this morning.
CAFFERTY: I don't have an agenda. I don't take birth control pills.
O'BRIEN: That's true. You do not have a dog in the fight.
CAFFERTY: No agenda. I've got no dog in the fight. That's right.
O'BRIEN: All right.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Point taken.
Well, the pain many felt 10 years ago today was unlike anything they'd ever experienced. One of the survivors saw that pain as an opportunity. How she has channeled that into something positive for others. Her story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 19, 2005 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Oklahoma City, 10 years after the bombing that forever changed this community and the country, now getting ready for a special memorial to victims this morning.
Also, from the Vatican, the smoke is black again today. No pope yet, but the cardinals will try again on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer reporting from Oklahoma City and Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Lots happening in Oklahoma City, in Vatican City and elsewhere to tell you about.
Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, good morning. I'm in Oklahoma City today.
We're awaiting a very special memorial that will begin in about an hour from now. That starts at around 10:00 Eastern Time, 9:00 here Central Time.
Also in a moment here, we'll talk with two women who had their lives ripped apart that day, a mother and a grandmother, reminding us so much of this tragedy, especially hitting their lives and their families. Their stories in a moment here -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Bill, a shocking scene in a Rhode Island courtroom. We're going to find out what happened to this man. He's an accused cop killer. His family, though, is saying that he is the victim. We'll explain.
Jack Cafferty got a look at the "Question of the Day."
Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed. A growing number of pharmacists, Soledad, around the country have been refusing to fill prescriptions on moral grounds, prescriptions for things like birth control and the morning after pill. Should that be allowed or should there be a law against it? AM@CNN.com is the e-mail address.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thanks.
Let's get right back out to Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City. Hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey. Soledad.
I mentioned the time a short time ago, 9:02 a.m. Central Time. That was the minute that that bombing ripped through this country 10 years ago. This time, the nation will pause to remember what happened here exactly 10 years ago.
Edye Lucas lost her two sons in the bombing in the federal building. Her mother, Kathy Sanders, has written a book. A book that's called "After Oklahoma City: A Grieving Grandmother Uncovers Shocking Truths About the Bombing and Herself."
Edye Lucas and Kathy Sanders with me now in Oklahoma City.
Nice to see both of you.
EDYE LUCAS, LOST TWO SONS IN BOMBING: Thank you.
KATHY SANDERS, "AFTER OKLAHOMA CITY": Thank you.
HEMMER: And thank you for your time.
What is your feeling coming back here now on the 10-year anniversary?
LUCAS: You know, it's been such a long 10 years. But I miss my kids as much today as I did a week after the bombing. It gets easier with time, but it's still -- it's still difficult. But I'm appreciative for everything that I have, and I'm glad I was their mother for the short time that I was.
HEMMER: Sure.
Kathy, you have struck up a very interesting relationship. You have met Terry Nichols in prison. You've had dinner with the McVeigh family. What did you learn from that?
SANDERS: I learned that some people that I thought were enemies were indeed victims like myself.
HEMMER: What did you ask them, Kathy?
SANDERS: Well, I didn't ask them questions about the bombing. It -- you know it kind of put them on the spot during the trial. So it's been a long journey. You know, my life has changed.
If you'd ever asked me year ago what would I have done if someone had killed my grandchildren, I'd say, well I'd kill them. But that's not what happened. You know, now I've been in their shoes, and I've done things that I never thought that I would do. But it's been very important to me to find out the truth.
HEMMER: Wow. That is so interesting, too. And so through those relationships you've been able, in a sense, to heal in a different way?
SANDERS: That's right. You know, I had a choice to make 10 years ago. I didn't know if I was going to survive, and I think the choices we make enable us to survive. And the right thing for me to do was to try to find out the truth, to find out what happened. And I found, along the way, that in order to help myself, I found a lot of help for myself in helping others.
HEMMER: Edye, you've remarried. And you have' got some news, by the way.
LUCAS: I do. I just found out last week I have a baby on the way, or babies. I went through an IBF (ph) cycle thanks to Dr. Rochet (ph) at Bennett Fertility Institute in Oklahoma City. I'm pregnant, and I'm so excited. And...
HEMMER: And this is also a strong sign about how life continues here.
LUCAS: It does.
HEMMER: How many people here -- tell us about how much hope they have for the future in Oklahoma.
LUCAS: There's a lot of hope for me and I think for my family. And I think Oklahomans are just strong individuals. And I think we've all pulled together, and we've just proven that you can overcome tragedy.
And I have a wonderful life. I'm grateful and happy and content. And that's just the way it is for me.
HEMMER: Really striking the note of optimism today. And I think it's wonderful to hear also. You have a 7-year-old son.
LUCAS: I have a 7-year-old son.
HEMMER: What do you tell him about your loss?
LUCAS: He knows everything. He knows about his brothers. He loves to go to the museum.
He's just intrigued by the photographs. And he asks questions all the time. And he's a smart little boy, and he knows.
If I've learned anything, you can't shelter your children. That's for sure.
HEMMER: You learned something from your daughter through this, Kathy?
SANDERS: I have. She's been a remarkable strength for me. You know, after the bombing, I just crumbled. I was just so hurt.
And if it hadn't been for Edye, I couldn't be here today the way that I am. She's a -- she's a huge source of strength, and she's a wonderful person. And I'm just so proud to have her as my daughter. I'm proud to have been Chase (ph) and Colton's (ph) grandmother.
You know, we're here 10 years later, but Edye and I have managed to have -- we have a song in our heart and a smile in our face. Life is good and it's going to get better.
HEMMER: Thanks for sharing. It's good to hear, too. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks, Edye.
LUCAS: Thank you.
HEMMER: And good luck, OK? Stay healthy.
More from Oklahoma City in a moment -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: To the Vatican now. Roman Catholic cardinals begin the afternoon session of their conclave. It starts in just about an hour from now. The morning session refused -- failed, rather, to produce a new pope. Black smoke blew out of the Sistine Chapel chimney just over three hours ago at the end of the morning session.
CNN Vatican analyst John Allen is watching and waiting with the rest of us.
John, nice to have you back again. Let's get right to it.
This is the first time that the start of the conclave has been broadcast live and on those big giant screens in the middle of the plaza. Did John Paul II have an impact on that happening?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, Soledad. I mean, I don't think John Paul II left specific indications as to how this was going to work in terms of media exposure. But I do think there's a sense that it's of a peace with his life, the kind of unique openness we're seeing.
And I think I would wind the clock back, actually, and say, during the last days of his life we got a remarkable degree of disclosure, of medical information from the Vatican. Then, you'll remember, we got those stunning images of his body in the casket in his private chapel surrounded by his most intimate aides and collaborators. And then we have gotten these remarkable images for the first time inside the Sistine Chapel.
I mean, while there is obviously a kind of shadow of secrecy around this process, by historical standards it has been remarkably open, just like the papacy that preceded it.
O'BRIEN: I want you to explain something that confuses me a little bit. The cardinals can vote up to four times a day, and yet we've only seen two puffs of smoke, one for each vote. Does that mean that they've only been voting two times a day? Why wouldn't they be voting the full four times a day that they'd be able to vote?
ALLEN: Yes, they are, actually, we assume, Soledad. The way it works is they only burn the ballots after the second ballot of the morning. In other words, if the first ballot is inconclusive, it doesn't get to two-thirds of the vote for a particular candidate and, therefore, there is no pope, they go directly to a second ballot, and they only burn the ballots afterwards. And that will be the same procedure for the afternoon.
So if the fourth and fifth ballots are also inconclusive, we'll see one puff of smoke this evening, and it would be black. Of course, if we see white smoke, on the other hand, something magical has happened, we've got a pope.
O'BRIEN: How long does it take, not just for the full conclave, however long that takes, but for the actual physical ballot balloting of each cardinal who gets to cast a vote?
ALLEN: Yes, this isn't like a kind of school, you know, class president election, where it's simply a matter of raising your hands. It is actually a very complicated and highly scripted process.
Each cardinal writes out the name of the candidate he wants to vote for on a piece of paper that was designed personally by Paul VI, John Paul II's predecessor, plus one. Then they each process up by one, put that ballot on a plate, and then drop the ballot into an urn. And then those ballots are counted by a set of three cardinals chosen by a lot (ph), and another set of three cardinals behind them count it to make sure that first count was accurate.
So the whole process takes about an hour to unfold. This is why they go in at four. But if we have two ballots that are inconclusive, we may not see smoke until somewhere in the 6:00 hour local time.
O'BRIEN: That explains it. John Allen, as always, thank you very much for clarifying lots for us. We appreciate it.
ALLEN: Sure thing.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines now with Carol Costello.
Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News," the only person in the United States charged in connection with the September 11 terror attacks could plead guilty. According to the "The Washington Post," Zacarias Moussaoui is planning to admit he aided al Qaeda. The charges are likely to send him to death row.
The plea could come this week if he's ruled mentally competent. Moussaoui tried to plead guilty in 2002, but then he changed his mind.
At least four people have been killed in a suicide car bombing near Saddam Hussein's former palace. The building in northern Baghdad is now being used as a base for Iraqi and coalition forces. It also serves as a recruitment center for the new Iraqi military. Some 40 other people were wounded in that attack.
A CNN "Security Watch" now. The Homeland Security Department is calling for new technology at airports. It seems hidden weapons continue to slip -- continue to slip in, I should say, past checkpoints.
The department says most screeners are doing a good job but need improved screening equipment, especially to check for plastic weapons. Two studies on airport screening are being released this week.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
And baseball commissioner Bud Selig is reportedly looking for a closer look at steroid use in baseball. According to sources cited by "The New York Times," Selig told lawmakers he may hire an outside investigator if Congress decides to scale back its probe.
Let's check on the weather now, head to Atlanta and Chad Myers.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: The suspected killer known as BTK is due in a Wichita, Kansas, court in just about an hour. Dennis Rader is accused of murdering 10 people in the 1970s. This is the first time that Radar could hear the prosecution's evidence against him.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is outside the courthouse in Wichita this morning.
Hey, Chris. Good morning.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Well, the Wichita police chief went on TV to say BTK has been arrested. But so far, we haven't heard any evidence to prove it. For the first time today, we may finally start to hear how one killer could taunt police for some 30 years without getting caught.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): The case began when a man, his wife and two children were murdered in their own home, strangled in 1974.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BTK stands for bind, torture and kill.
LAWRENCE: And this killer communicated. He sent letters to local papers and TV stations and called in his own crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will find a homicide at 843 South Pershing.
LAWRENCE: More young women were found bound and strangled over the next five years. Then in 1979, BTK just disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not have any concrete leads as to who this individual is.
LAWRENCE: It would be 25 years before he communicated again. In February, police arrested this man, Dennis Rader, who is now accused of 10 murders.
PROF. BRIAN WITHROW, WICHITA STATE UNIVERSITY: This is the end game.
LAWRENCE: Criminal justice professor Brian Withrow says the details that could come out of this hearing will affect not only the victims' families but just about everyone who lives here.
WITHROW: Before his arrest, it was, "Could it happen to me? Who is this guy? Could it happen to me?"
After his arrest, most of the attention was focused on those of us who said, "It could have happened to me, because I knew him. I knew somebody who knew him."
LAWRENCE: And a lot of people know Rader, a married man with two grown children. He worked as a dog catcher. And as president of his local church, is a man deeply connected to his community.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: He has also been a Boy Scout leader, and he worked for one of the suburbs here. And most people feel if this case ever goes to trial, it would be somewhat difficult to find a jury that has absolutely no connection to Dennis Rader -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Chris, if he is, in fact, convicted of killing 10 people, could he face the death penalty?
LAWRENCE: Well, Kansas has had the death penalty off and on over the years. But every year in which these crimes took place Kansas did not have the death penalty. So the maximum penalty in this case is life in prison.
And if you take the death penalty out of the equation, that also leaves open the possibility that at some point a person could enter a guilty plea and just be sentenced to the sentence at that point.
O'BRIEN: Chris Lawrence for us this morning. Chris, thanks a lot.
And let's go back to Bill Hemmer. He's in Oklahoma City -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, thank you.
The first victim in surgery that morning in Oklahoma City 10 years ago today, it has been a very long and painful journey for her. But she has used that pain to teach so many a critical lesson. Her story a bit later this hour here live in Oklahoma City on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Authorities in Providence, Rhode Island, are investigating the killing of a police detective on Sunday inside police headquarters. Police caught the suspect, who made his first court appearance on Monday, and now the suspect's family wants to know what happened to him while he was in police custody.
CNN's Jason Carroll explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This story is about the faces of two very different people. There's the badly bruised and swollen face of Esteban Carpio. Some of his family were removed from court after they first saw him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Steven, tell them not guilty. Not guilty! Tell them not guilty! Tell them not guilty, Steven!
DELORES, SUSPECT'S AUNT: His face has been massacred. They massacred him. I'm surprised he's still alive the way he looks.
CARROLL: Carpio's face was so swollen he wore what correction officers call a spit shield, a mask to protect his wounds and protect him from spitting. But Providence, Rhode Island, police are focused on this face, Detective James Allen.
Police say Carpio shot and killed Allen, a husband and father of two. But officers sense that fact is getting lost in all the allegations over what happened to Carpio while in police custody.
CHIEF DEAN ESSERMAN, PROVIDENCE POLICE: This is Detective Allen. We will present this photograph to all of you. Please remember this man, because we will.
CARROLL: Police say as Allen interrogated Carpio Sunday about his possible involvement in the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman, Carpio grabbed Allen's gun, fatally shot the detective, jumped out a third floor window and ran. Two Rhode Island state troopers, a police officer and an FBI agent caught him a few blocks away.
DELORES: Initially when we went to the hospital, and we talked to the police, they said he only had a leg injury and some minor lacerations. They wouldn't let us see him. Seeing him now, his whole face is just massacred.
ED, SUSPECT'S UNCLE: We tried to get this boy hospital help, psychiatric help, and he was released a number of times in the last 30 days. But we are very sorry about what happened. But he obviously has been beaten very badly.
CARROLL (on camera): Police say there is a time and a place to talk about what happened to Carpio, and they say now is not that time. But they did provide some details surrounding what happened during his capture.
ESSERMAN: He jumped out of a third story window, and he struggled in a tough struggle to be apprehended on the ground. When I saw him, he was pretty cut up. More than that, I don't know.
CARROLL (voice-over): An investigation is under way. Police say they're not deaf to the family's allegations, but for now, their focus is on burying one of their own. Officer Allen's funeral is Thursday.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Carpio, charged with murder, did not enter a plea in court on Monday. A judge ordered him held without bail.
In a moment, chaos at sea. Did that Norwegian cruise liner spend more time in stormy weather than it had to? An angry passenger tells us why she thinks that was the case.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Remember Patrick McCarthy? He's the 8-year-old kid who was saved when a truck came barreling down toward him. He was saved by Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. Well, when he and his dad dropped by our show on Monday, Patrick made kind of a bold prediction. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK MCCARTHY, SAVED BY ALEX RODRIGUEZ: When I go there, the Yankees are going to have a long winning streak.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, really? Tell me about this.
MCCARTHY: Well, I think when I get there the Yankees are going to win lots and lots of games.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Well, guess what? Patrick did go to the game last night at Yankee Stadium. The results, just as he predicted, a 19-8 route with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, fueled by none other than A-Rod, his favorite. He homered twice, doubled twice, and finished with five hits and six RBIs.
Go Patrick! How glad are the Yankees for this kid?
CAFFERTY: What happened?
O'BRIEN: He's a lucky charm. You stop! OK. Then I'm not going to ask you about the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: I was reading my script over and I missed it. A growing number of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called a pharmacist's right of conscience, and it's being questioned in at least 23 states.
Some lawmakers want a law that would allow pharmacists to refuse refill prescriptions they disagree with. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill any legal prescription without delay.
So the question this morning has generated a lot of mail, actually. Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?
A doctor in Baltimore, Maryland, named Josh writes, "Couldn't agree with you more, Jack. If pharmacists want to be able to pick and choose what prescriptions to fill they should go to medical school. It's difficult enough for many young women to get access to birth control and emergency contraception without the pharmacists enforcing their morality on them."
Lucy in Connecticut writes, "Why do you only read the e-mails that agree with your hidden agenda? Get my drift? I dare you to read one of the provocative pro-life e-mails instead of the pro-death, poor choice e-mails that you tip the scale of your telecast commentary with."
OK, Lucy. It's been done. Now leave me alone.
Dave in Japan writes, "Jack, pharmacists refusing to fill doctors' prescriptions? What next, vegetarian checkout clerks not selling any meat, nonsmoking cashiers refusing to sell me cigarettes? If I want religious advice I'll get it from my pastor, not some blouse-wearing pill jockey whose job is the medical equivalent over the guy who keeps the shake machine clean at McDonald's."
O'BRIEN: OK, that was unnecessary. I mean, blouse-wearing pill jockey, your trusted pharmacist?
CAFFERTY: This is my friend Dave.
O'BRIEN: I know it's your friend Dave.
CAFFERTY: He writes to me all the time.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I realize that.
CAFFERTY: Periodically, I like to share his thoughts with the viewers at large.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know you do. All right, Jack. Thanks.
CAFFERTY: I read that other one before him, Lucy.
O'BRIEN: I know you did.
CAFFERTY: Fair and balanced. O'BRIEN: And I like the way she said, "hidden agenda." I don't think your agenda was that hidden this morning.
CAFFERTY: I don't have an agenda. I don't take birth control pills.
O'BRIEN: That's true. You do not have a dog in the fight.
CAFFERTY: No agenda. I've got no dog in the fight. That's right.
O'BRIEN: All right.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Point taken.
Well, the pain many felt 10 years ago today was unlike anything they'd ever experienced. One of the survivors saw that pain as an opportunity. How she has channeled that into something positive for others. Her story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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