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American Morning
No Pope Yet; A City and Nation Remembering Victims of Oklahoma City Bombing
Aired April 19, 2005 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
A black stream of smoke at the Vatican and a signal to the world -- no pope yet. But another vote is just hours away.
Also, 10 years later, a city and nation remembering victims of the Oklahoma City bombing in a special ceremony that we will watch today on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York and Bill Hemmer reporting from Oklahoma City.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
HEMMER: Good morning.
I'm Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Good morning to you, Bill.
Soledad O'Brien reporting from New York this morning.
HEMMER: Good morning, Soledad.
I'm Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City.
It's been 10 years now since that day that all of us remember so well, the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building. This morning, a memorial for the 168 people killed that day. Former President Bill Clinton is here; the vice president, Dick Cheney, as well. In a moment, I'll speak to former Governor Frank Keating, too. And also today, we are hearing the stories of the people who still bear the scars of that day and will for a lifetime -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Bill, a CNN "Security Watch" to talk about. Two new studies coming out looking at the airport screeners who are responsible for spotting bombs and weapons in people's luggage. Conclusions of reports are just shocking. We'll have that this morning, as well.
Jack Cafferty with us -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Coming up in "The Cafferty File," Texas opening up an express lane on death row.
Ann Coulter makes the cover of "Time" magazine and all she can do is whine about the photograph. Actually, it's pretty funny. We'll show it to you.
And the sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona who bills himself as the toughest sheriff in the country has run completely amok. Wait until you see what he's come up with.
O'BRIEN: Really?
CAFFERTY: It's wonderful.
O'BRIEN: All right, looking forward to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Time to get the headlines.
Carol Costello for us this morning -- hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That made me so curious.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: Does it have to do with the color pink?
CAFFERTY: I -- you mean like that jump suit you're wearing?
COSTELLO: I brought it on myself, didn't I?
O'BRIEN: Yes, you did.
COSTELLO: OK, we'll just move right along.
Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news, in Washington, D.C., in the area, I should say, terror suspect Zacarias Moussaoui is reportedly planning to plead guilty to charges related to the September 11 terrorist attacks. Moussaoui is the only person in the U.S. charged in connection with the attacks. He was indicted back in December of 2001. According to the "Washington Post," Moussaoui's plea could come this week. A judge is expected to rule on whether he is mentally competent to enter that plea.
A preliminary hearing expected today for the BTK killer suspect, Dennis Rader. Police say Rader is the man who killed at least 10 people over the last three decades using a method that would become his nickname -- bind, torture and kill. Prosecutors have to show today there is enough evidence against Rader to go to trial. Honest Abe is getting a new place in history. The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum is set to open today. President Bush will be on hand for the dedication. He's set to leave for Springfield, Illinois in the next hour. President Bush has called Lincoln a great champion of liberty. And that museum is something else, very different. You should go see it.
And it looks like New Jersey's favorite beluga whale is heading back toward open water. The 12-foot-long whale was reportedly spotted near Delaware on Monday. A marine expert has apparently shelved a plan to rescue the beluga, hoping it will get back to the ocean and its normal course. And for a while it looked like it was heading back out to sea. But he must really like the people looking at him from around the Delaware River.
O'BRIEN: Can I ask you a question? Why would the Lincoln Library be opening after the Clinton Library? Shouldn't the Lincoln Library have been open a while ago?
COSTELLO: It took them a long time to come up with a very special library. At least that's what they say. But the exhibits in this library are totally lifelike.
O'BRIEN: Really?
COSTELLO: They have wax figures, life-sized, down to the hair on people's hands.
O'BRIEN: It sounds fascinating.
COSTELLO: It's freaky.
O'BRIEN: Well, freaky is a good word for it.
Carol, thanks.
The College of Cardinals will try again in just about two hours to choose a new pope. The signal that none was elected came earlier this morning. Black smoke started to come out of the Sistine Chapel chimney about 10 minutes before noon Rome time. The Vatican says when they send up white smoke they're also going to ring the bells.
CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, live in Rome for us this morning -- hey, Alessio, good morning.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Soledad.
It was another exciting day here at the Vatican as the cardinals gathered for their first full day of voting inside the Sistine Chapel. And as you mentioned, they had to burn the ballots for their pre -- for their two votes this morning, about 330 ballots plus all their notes. So the smoke coming out of the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel lasted for about 30 minutes or so, giving people plenty of time to watch.
And I can tell you that watching the chimney over St. Peter's Square has become one of the Rome's favorite pastimes.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
VINCI (voice-over): They've come from near and far to watch and wait. All eyes on this unattractive chimney emerging from the Sistine Chapel, in sharp contrast with the splendor of nearby St. Peter's Basilica and the beauty of Bernini's Columnade. Yet, this smokestack has become the most watched, photographed and filmed spot in town.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to watch and see if the smoke comes from the Sistine Chapel to tell us whether or not we have a pope, a new pope tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we're here because the last pope we had was for 26 years, and who's to say, you know, when is the next time I'll be able to come down here to see or witness the picking of the new pope.
VINCI: For the first time since the death of Pope John Paul II, tears and sorrow in St. Peter's Square gave way to excited anticipation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's just kind of cool to be here seeing the smoke and the history and how everybody is into it and everything here.
VINCI: But waiting for a papal election here isn't for the feint-hearted. When the first puff of smoke finally appeared Monday night, the exhilaration was so great, many thought at first it was white, meaning the pope had been elected. Moments later, the smoke turned as black as it gets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first it was oh, yes, cloud nine. It was like we have a pope. This is it, finally, you know? The waiting is over. But, yes, gosh, that black smoke came and it was just like whoo!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, at first it looked white. So I thought that for the first time in history we were going to get a pope on the first shot. But then the color changed.
VINCI: On Tuesday morning, another puff of black smoke. And for those who were disappointed the night before, more disappointment, but resilience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Round two. I'm hoping to be able to see when it happens. Now we'll be again here tonight at 7:00.
VINCI: Cardinals vote up to four times each day, twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon. Until a pope is elected, there will be black smoke around noon and 7:00 p.m. local time.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VINCI: That will be about 1:00 p.m. Eastern time, Soledad. In about two hours time, first of all, the cardinals are expected to reenter the Sistine Chapel for their afternoon rounds of voting. And the crowds, of course, will continue to gather in St. Peter's Square around that time. And, of course, waiting for the legendary white puff of smoke -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And the legendary, or soon to be legendary, I guess, bells that would accompany the white smoke. But, of course, the bells, to some degree, this time around, have added to the confusion, right?
VINCI: That is correct. Back in 1978 when Pope John Paul II was elected, there was some confusion about the color of the smoke, whether it was gray, black or white. This morning, it was the same thing. And, as a matter of fact, Pope John Paul II himself has said that when there is a pope, the bells of St. Peter's will toll.
And this morning, however, the black smoke or the gray smoke, as it turned out, coincided with the noon bells tolling, around 12:00 p.m. local time. And so the people, for one moment, felt that actually a pope had been elected. But then eventually we saw more smoke coming out of the chimney and it was black.
You know, they told us at the Vatican before this process began that this was going to be journalists' proof, that there was no way that we could mistake black for white. But I can tell you this morning I was in the square and it looked definitely gray.
O'BRIEN: Apparently it's not journalists' proof.
Alessio Vinci for us this morning.
Alessio, we're going to continue to check in with you, obviously, on this story.
But let's first get back to Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City -- hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad.
About two hours away from now, a memorial service will be held here in Oklahoma City. Part of it will observe 168 seconds of silence for those killed 10 years ago today. It will certainly be a moving.
And the former governor, Frank Keating, will speak, as well, at that memorial.
He's my guest now here in Oklahoma City.
Good morning to you.
FRANK KEATING, FORMER OKLAHOMA GOVERNOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: What's your message today?
KEATING: Gratitude. I'm grateful for the lives of those people who were lost, some very long lives, some very short lives; good people who should not have been dead, people who were -- lives were snuffed out as the result of the evil of two nasty people. I'm grateful for the rescue workers, firefighters, the police officers from all over the United States here in Oklahoma and Oklahoma City who came and helped us. Grateful for leadership -- for President Clinton, who embraced the country and Oklahoma; grateful for the vice president, who, at the time, was chairman of an Oklahoma founded company that started the fundraising effort to put Oklahoma City back on its feet.
And, lastly, I think grateful for the new Oklahomans, the young people that my wife and I, our fund is putting through college. We had 60 kids who have graduated from college already and today we're going to hear from a number of others who are going to read the names of those lost.
HEMMER: You're talking about the future, too, in that answer. And I think if you walk around this memorial, which, by the way, is stunning, really a tribute to the people here in the State of Oklahoma about what they were able to do in bringing this memorial together. And so many talk about not just the pride of Oklahoma, but the hope they have for the future. And you hear that from everyone out here.
KEATING: Well, this is a believing city and the people of Oklahoma City believe that out of evil good can come. This is a renaissance community. Two downtown civic centers, a ball park, hotels, restaurants, this beautiful canal downtown and this lovely memorial, this spiritual place behind us.
So Oklahoma is very optimistic as a city. But we wish, obviously, that what occurred 10 years ago did not occur. It was just a wreckage and a tragedy.
HEMMER: Yes.
Some consider this memorial to be the Dealey Plaza of Dallas, Texas, the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor. And they also talk about before this act 10 years ago, there is no process in America for dealing with terrorism and no process for dealing with the aftermath for the survivors.
How critical has that been?
KEATING: I think both 9/11 and the Oklahoma City tragedy, Oklahoma City, which remains the largest criminal case in the history of the United States, both of those are common denominator events where people of all walks of life, public leaders, private leaders, all of us have to come together to make sure that we respond intelligently and professionally and also anticipate and avoid something like this in the future.
But, if anything, Oklahoma City was understated in terms of the excellence of the response. The fact that the people, 300 buildings damaged or destroyed around us right now and not one act of looting. The fact that there was never anybody yelling back and forth about we need this, we need that, how come you're charging me for this. Everything was free. I think those are important messages. People who come to help you, take care of them as brothers and sisters and members of your family.
HEMMER: That's why they call it the Oklahoma standard, right?
KEATING: You'd better believe it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Governor.
KEATING: Thank you, Bill.
Appreciate it.
HEMMER: Good to see you.
KEATING: Good to see you.
HEMMER: And we'll be listening for your comments today.
KEATING: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, maybe the most memorable image to emerge from Oklahoma City, the body of a little girl cradled in the arms of a firefighter. How tragedy has brought two people together unexpectedly, but now they have a friendship for a lifetime. Their story that you will only see here on CNN, after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Two government studies are expected to report this week that airport screeners are not any better than they were back in 2001 when it comes to finding deadly weapons on passengers and in their luggage. In a CNN "Security Watch" now, we take a look at one of the studies from the inspector general's office at the Department of Homeland Security, which comes out later today.
Congressman Peter DeFazio has been briefed on both studies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER DEFAZIO (D-OR), COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY: They were working with the same technology before 9/11. They have 1980s technology for a 21st century threat. It's not working. It never will work. You could have the best screener in the world and they would not find many of these threat objects using that obsolete equipment, equipment that was thrown out of the U.S. Capitol 10 years ago and thrown out by the White House before that because it wasn't adequate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: CNN security analyst Clark Kent Ervin joins us from Washington, D.C.
He was inspector general back in 2003 -- nice to see you.
Thanks for talking with us this morning.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, HOMELAND SECURITY, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: My pleasure, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
Screeners no better, one report seems to say, maybe two, than back in 2001.
Are you surprised by that finding?
ERVIN: Well, I'm afraid to say that I'm not, if, in fact, this is the finding. We made recommendations in '03 when we last conducted this round of tests in the area of equipment and technology, training, management and supervision, policy and procedures. And I was hopeful that the department, the TSA, would implement those recommendations.
If this report shows what we think it will show, that it appears as though those recommendations were not fully implemented.
O'BRIEN: Can I talk a little bit more about those recommendations? For example, you recommended recurrent professional training. You recommended improvement of equipment and technology. You recommended changing some SOPs at screening checkpoints, improvement management and oversight of screeners.
Why do you think these things are not being done?
ERVIN: Well, it's really inexplicable, Soledad. The good news is that while we can never have 100 percent accuracy -- we're human beings, and machines are fallible, as well -- we can certainly do better than the average results that we obtained in '03 and the results that apparently were obtained this year in '05. And if this technology is deployed, there's technology like back scatter, that can actually see through clothing and see weapons that are hidden on the body. And there's a way to deal with the privacy concerns that are attendant to that -- multi x-ray machines, for example; TIP library images that can project fake images onto screens to test the alertness of screeners.
All these things are possible. They need to be deployed at airports throughout the country. It's an investment of money, of course, but we can't scrimp when it comes to the security of the United States.
O'BRIEN: So it's possible and we can do better. It costs money, obviously.
Do you think, at the end of the day, then, the money is the only reason that we haven't seen these things?
ERVIN: I think money is part of the answer. I also think, frankly, that there hasn't been the urgency in terms of implementing these recommendations that there needs to be. We all know that al Qaeda continues to want to attack the United States. They've made it clear that air travel is a mode that they're still interested in using. And we all know that there are vulnerabilities. So it's absolutely critical that the new leadership team at the Department, about which, by the way, I'm very optimistic, will embrace the recommendations that were made in '03 and implement them quickly. There's not a moment to waste.
O'BRIEN: Yes or no, are we any safer than we were back in 2001?
ERVIN: Yes, we are. And I'm glad that you asked that question. Airport screeners is one line of defense against another 9/11 style attack, and it's really the last one before the -- before passengers board airplanes. But there are other layers. Cockpit doors have been hardened. Some pilots are armed. And airport perimeters are more secure, generally. And screeners, for all the problems, are better trained and more sensitized than they were on 9/11.
Having said that, though, these results show that in terms of the ability to detect these deadly weapons, screeners are no better able to do so today than they were four years ago. And that's unacceptable. We can do better and we must do better.
O'BRIEN: Clark Kent Ervin, former inspector general of homeland security.
Nice to talk to you.
Thank you for being with us this morning.
ERVIN: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: A reminder, you want to stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Let's go back to Oklahoma City and Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
The tragedy here in Oklahoma City brought many people together, people that never knew each other prior to that morning. Through the terror of that April morning, though, they need each other today more than ever, including the next two people you will meet here. They say they have never sat down before for a television interview. It's one story you will only see here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
AREN ALMON KOK, MOTHER: Oh, I've got a lady bug. Trudy and I used to call Baylee Lady Bug.
HEMMER (voice-over): Aren Kok is saying another good-bye to her daughter Baylee and getting ready for another dreaded milestone.
ALMON KOK: And I'm really ready to get the 10-year anniversary over with, I think. It's been so much buildup to then that I know on the 20th it's all over. And I'm really looking forward to that.
HEMMER: Of the thousands of images that emerged from the rubble of Oklahoma City, this one captured the moment and became a symbol of that day's brutality. Chris Fields, a firefighter, is holding the lifeless body of Aren's daughter Baylee.
ALMON KOK: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: The day after that image was captured, Aren, then a 22- year-old mother, invited Chris to her home to say thank you for trying.
CHRIS FIELDS, FIREFIGHTER: She usually calls first.
HEMMER: Now, 10 years later, they consider themselves lifelong friends.
(on camera): So how are we to understand your relationship today? Was it big brother and little sister?
FIELDS: Big brother and younger sister.
ALMON KOK: Yes.
FIELDS: Yes.
HEMMER: Every month or so, they talk on the phone to give each other support or just to catch up or if one of them is having a bad day fighting the memories of who was lost.
Chris was on the scene just 20 minutes when police officer John Avery called for his help. Avery found Baylee buried in the rubble, handed her to Fields and went searching for more survivors. Today, Avery images Baylee as an 11-year-old girl.
JOHN AVERY: When I go to school plays, when I go to church and they pray to the children across the stage to do things, it makes me terribly, terribly sad. I think about her every time when that happens.
HEMMER: She was one of 19 children killed in the building. And out of that devastation, years later, a friendship is holding strong.
FIELDS: I'm glad that I'm in that position that she depends on me for, you know, for strength or just a sounding board. I'm glad to be there for her.
ALMON KOK: Baylee is still a very big part of our family and we talk about her a lot. I live with missing Baylee every day.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
HEMMER: Our coverage continues from Oklahoma City.
We're about two hours away from the memorial service beginning here. It is no doubt going to be another day of memories for so many people here in Oklahoma.
Also in a moment, a woman who lost two grandsons that day in the bombing. She'll talk to us about her monthly letters to Terry Nichols, now behind bars, and why she believes he and Timothy McVeigh were not the only ones behind the attack.
That's a bit later here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Jack and the Question of the Day -- good morning, again.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Soledad.
A growing number of pharmacists refusing to pill prescriptions -- pill prescriptions. A play on words. Fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called the pharmacist's right of conscience. It's being questioned in 23 states. Some law makers want legislation that would allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions they disagree with. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill any legal prescription without delay.
The question this morning is this -- should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?
Lorenzo in Texas: "Revoke their license. What's next, firemen who choose which fires to fight or police who decide whom to protect?"
Laura in New York writes: "Yes, they should be. If a pharmacy isn't government owned or subsidized, the pharmacist should have the right as a citizen to act according to his or her own conscience. If they lose business, then so be it. Taking a stand is never easy, but the alternative of personal dishonor is far worse."
J.S. in California: "I want to become a pharmacist and a Christian scientist. Christian scientists don't believe in modern medicine, meaning no prescriptions for anybody. It would be wonderful to have a job and then refuse to do it."
Somebody who is not getting enough sleep.
O'BRIEN: They don't get paid.
CAFFERTY: And I like this. Randy in Ontario: "Jack, you're living proof why pharmacists should always allow birth control prescriptions to be filled."
Touche.
O'BRIEN: That's pretty funny.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Well, we all know that exercise is good for u. But if you work out and you don't get skinnier, are you actually fit? We're going to page Dr. Gupta just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 19, 2005 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
A black stream of smoke at the Vatican and a signal to the world -- no pope yet. But another vote is just hours away.
Also, 10 years later, a city and nation remembering victims of the Oklahoma City bombing in a special ceremony that we will watch today on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien at the CNN Broadcast Center in New York and Bill Hemmer reporting from Oklahoma City.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
HEMMER: Good morning.
I'm Bill Hemmer.
O'BRIEN: Good morning to you, Bill.
Soledad O'Brien reporting from New York this morning.
HEMMER: Good morning, Soledad.
I'm Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City.
It's been 10 years now since that day that all of us remember so well, the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building. This morning, a memorial for the 168 people killed that day. Former President Bill Clinton is here; the vice president, Dick Cheney, as well. In a moment, I'll speak to former Governor Frank Keating, too. And also today, we are hearing the stories of the people who still bear the scars of that day and will for a lifetime -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Bill, a CNN "Security Watch" to talk about. Two new studies coming out looking at the airport screeners who are responsible for spotting bombs and weapons in people's luggage. Conclusions of reports are just shocking. We'll have that this morning, as well.
Jack Cafferty with us -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Coming up in "The Cafferty File," Texas opening up an express lane on death row.
Ann Coulter makes the cover of "Time" magazine and all she can do is whine about the photograph. Actually, it's pretty funny. We'll show it to you.
And the sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona who bills himself as the toughest sheriff in the country has run completely amok. Wait until you see what he's come up with.
O'BRIEN: Really?
CAFFERTY: It's wonderful.
O'BRIEN: All right, looking forward to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Time to get the headlines.
Carol Costello for us this morning -- hello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That made me so curious.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: Does it have to do with the color pink?
CAFFERTY: I -- you mean like that jump suit you're wearing?
COSTELLO: I brought it on myself, didn't I?
O'BRIEN: Yes, you did.
COSTELLO: OK, we'll just move right along.
Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news, in Washington, D.C., in the area, I should say, terror suspect Zacarias Moussaoui is reportedly planning to plead guilty to charges related to the September 11 terrorist attacks. Moussaoui is the only person in the U.S. charged in connection with the attacks. He was indicted back in December of 2001. According to the "Washington Post," Moussaoui's plea could come this week. A judge is expected to rule on whether he is mentally competent to enter that plea.
A preliminary hearing expected today for the BTK killer suspect, Dennis Rader. Police say Rader is the man who killed at least 10 people over the last three decades using a method that would become his nickname -- bind, torture and kill. Prosecutors have to show today there is enough evidence against Rader to go to trial. Honest Abe is getting a new place in history. The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum is set to open today. President Bush will be on hand for the dedication. He's set to leave for Springfield, Illinois in the next hour. President Bush has called Lincoln a great champion of liberty. And that museum is something else, very different. You should go see it.
And it looks like New Jersey's favorite beluga whale is heading back toward open water. The 12-foot-long whale was reportedly spotted near Delaware on Monday. A marine expert has apparently shelved a plan to rescue the beluga, hoping it will get back to the ocean and its normal course. And for a while it looked like it was heading back out to sea. But he must really like the people looking at him from around the Delaware River.
O'BRIEN: Can I ask you a question? Why would the Lincoln Library be opening after the Clinton Library? Shouldn't the Lincoln Library have been open a while ago?
COSTELLO: It took them a long time to come up with a very special library. At least that's what they say. But the exhibits in this library are totally lifelike.
O'BRIEN: Really?
COSTELLO: They have wax figures, life-sized, down to the hair on people's hands.
O'BRIEN: It sounds fascinating.
COSTELLO: It's freaky.
O'BRIEN: Well, freaky is a good word for it.
Carol, thanks.
The College of Cardinals will try again in just about two hours to choose a new pope. The signal that none was elected came earlier this morning. Black smoke started to come out of the Sistine Chapel chimney about 10 minutes before noon Rome time. The Vatican says when they send up white smoke they're also going to ring the bells.
CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, live in Rome for us this morning -- hey, Alessio, good morning.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Soledad.
It was another exciting day here at the Vatican as the cardinals gathered for their first full day of voting inside the Sistine Chapel. And as you mentioned, they had to burn the ballots for their pre -- for their two votes this morning, about 330 ballots plus all their notes. So the smoke coming out of the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel lasted for about 30 minutes or so, giving people plenty of time to watch.
And I can tell you that watching the chimney over St. Peter's Square has become one of the Rome's favorite pastimes.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
VINCI (voice-over): They've come from near and far to watch and wait. All eyes on this unattractive chimney emerging from the Sistine Chapel, in sharp contrast with the splendor of nearby St. Peter's Basilica and the beauty of Bernini's Columnade. Yet, this smokestack has become the most watched, photographed and filmed spot in town.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to watch and see if the smoke comes from the Sistine Chapel to tell us whether or not we have a pope, a new pope tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we're here because the last pope we had was for 26 years, and who's to say, you know, when is the next time I'll be able to come down here to see or witness the picking of the new pope.
VINCI: For the first time since the death of Pope John Paul II, tears and sorrow in St. Peter's Square gave way to excited anticipation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's just kind of cool to be here seeing the smoke and the history and how everybody is into it and everything here.
VINCI: But waiting for a papal election here isn't for the feint-hearted. When the first puff of smoke finally appeared Monday night, the exhilaration was so great, many thought at first it was white, meaning the pope had been elected. Moments later, the smoke turned as black as it gets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first it was oh, yes, cloud nine. It was like we have a pope. This is it, finally, you know? The waiting is over. But, yes, gosh, that black smoke came and it was just like whoo!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, at first it looked white. So I thought that for the first time in history we were going to get a pope on the first shot. But then the color changed.
VINCI: On Tuesday morning, another puff of black smoke. And for those who were disappointed the night before, more disappointment, but resilience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Round two. I'm hoping to be able to see when it happens. Now we'll be again here tonight at 7:00.
VINCI: Cardinals vote up to four times each day, twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon. Until a pope is elected, there will be black smoke around noon and 7:00 p.m. local time.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VINCI: That will be about 1:00 p.m. Eastern time, Soledad. In about two hours time, first of all, the cardinals are expected to reenter the Sistine Chapel for their afternoon rounds of voting. And the crowds, of course, will continue to gather in St. Peter's Square around that time. And, of course, waiting for the legendary white puff of smoke -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And the legendary, or soon to be legendary, I guess, bells that would accompany the white smoke. But, of course, the bells, to some degree, this time around, have added to the confusion, right?
VINCI: That is correct. Back in 1978 when Pope John Paul II was elected, there was some confusion about the color of the smoke, whether it was gray, black or white. This morning, it was the same thing. And, as a matter of fact, Pope John Paul II himself has said that when there is a pope, the bells of St. Peter's will toll.
And this morning, however, the black smoke or the gray smoke, as it turned out, coincided with the noon bells tolling, around 12:00 p.m. local time. And so the people, for one moment, felt that actually a pope had been elected. But then eventually we saw more smoke coming out of the chimney and it was black.
You know, they told us at the Vatican before this process began that this was going to be journalists' proof, that there was no way that we could mistake black for white. But I can tell you this morning I was in the square and it looked definitely gray.
O'BRIEN: Apparently it's not journalists' proof.
Alessio Vinci for us this morning.
Alessio, we're going to continue to check in with you, obviously, on this story.
But let's first get back to Bill Hemmer in Oklahoma City -- hey, Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad.
About two hours away from now, a memorial service will be held here in Oklahoma City. Part of it will observe 168 seconds of silence for those killed 10 years ago today. It will certainly be a moving.
And the former governor, Frank Keating, will speak, as well, at that memorial.
He's my guest now here in Oklahoma City.
Good morning to you.
FRANK KEATING, FORMER OKLAHOMA GOVERNOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: What's your message today?
KEATING: Gratitude. I'm grateful for the lives of those people who were lost, some very long lives, some very short lives; good people who should not have been dead, people who were -- lives were snuffed out as the result of the evil of two nasty people. I'm grateful for the rescue workers, firefighters, the police officers from all over the United States here in Oklahoma and Oklahoma City who came and helped us. Grateful for leadership -- for President Clinton, who embraced the country and Oklahoma; grateful for the vice president, who, at the time, was chairman of an Oklahoma founded company that started the fundraising effort to put Oklahoma City back on its feet.
And, lastly, I think grateful for the new Oklahomans, the young people that my wife and I, our fund is putting through college. We had 60 kids who have graduated from college already and today we're going to hear from a number of others who are going to read the names of those lost.
HEMMER: You're talking about the future, too, in that answer. And I think if you walk around this memorial, which, by the way, is stunning, really a tribute to the people here in the State of Oklahoma about what they were able to do in bringing this memorial together. And so many talk about not just the pride of Oklahoma, but the hope they have for the future. And you hear that from everyone out here.
KEATING: Well, this is a believing city and the people of Oklahoma City believe that out of evil good can come. This is a renaissance community. Two downtown civic centers, a ball park, hotels, restaurants, this beautiful canal downtown and this lovely memorial, this spiritual place behind us.
So Oklahoma is very optimistic as a city. But we wish, obviously, that what occurred 10 years ago did not occur. It was just a wreckage and a tragedy.
HEMMER: Yes.
Some consider this memorial to be the Dealey Plaza of Dallas, Texas, the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor. And they also talk about before this act 10 years ago, there is no process in America for dealing with terrorism and no process for dealing with the aftermath for the survivors.
How critical has that been?
KEATING: I think both 9/11 and the Oklahoma City tragedy, Oklahoma City, which remains the largest criminal case in the history of the United States, both of those are common denominator events where people of all walks of life, public leaders, private leaders, all of us have to come together to make sure that we respond intelligently and professionally and also anticipate and avoid something like this in the future.
But, if anything, Oklahoma City was understated in terms of the excellence of the response. The fact that the people, 300 buildings damaged or destroyed around us right now and not one act of looting. The fact that there was never anybody yelling back and forth about we need this, we need that, how come you're charging me for this. Everything was free. I think those are important messages. People who come to help you, take care of them as brothers and sisters and members of your family.
HEMMER: That's why they call it the Oklahoma standard, right?
KEATING: You'd better believe it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Governor.
KEATING: Thank you, Bill.
Appreciate it.
HEMMER: Good to see you.
KEATING: Good to see you.
HEMMER: And we'll be listening for your comments today.
KEATING: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, maybe the most memorable image to emerge from Oklahoma City, the body of a little girl cradled in the arms of a firefighter. How tragedy has brought two people together unexpectedly, but now they have a friendship for a lifetime. Their story that you will only see here on CNN, after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Two government studies are expected to report this week that airport screeners are not any better than they were back in 2001 when it comes to finding deadly weapons on passengers and in their luggage. In a CNN "Security Watch" now, we take a look at one of the studies from the inspector general's office at the Department of Homeland Security, which comes out later today.
Congressman Peter DeFazio has been briefed on both studies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER DEFAZIO (D-OR), COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY: They were working with the same technology before 9/11. They have 1980s technology for a 21st century threat. It's not working. It never will work. You could have the best screener in the world and they would not find many of these threat objects using that obsolete equipment, equipment that was thrown out of the U.S. Capitol 10 years ago and thrown out by the White House before that because it wasn't adequate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: CNN security analyst Clark Kent Ervin joins us from Washington, D.C.
He was inspector general back in 2003 -- nice to see you.
Thanks for talking with us this morning.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, HOMELAND SECURITY, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: My pleasure, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
Screeners no better, one report seems to say, maybe two, than back in 2001.
Are you surprised by that finding?
ERVIN: Well, I'm afraid to say that I'm not, if, in fact, this is the finding. We made recommendations in '03 when we last conducted this round of tests in the area of equipment and technology, training, management and supervision, policy and procedures. And I was hopeful that the department, the TSA, would implement those recommendations.
If this report shows what we think it will show, that it appears as though those recommendations were not fully implemented.
O'BRIEN: Can I talk a little bit more about those recommendations? For example, you recommended recurrent professional training. You recommended improvement of equipment and technology. You recommended changing some SOPs at screening checkpoints, improvement management and oversight of screeners.
Why do you think these things are not being done?
ERVIN: Well, it's really inexplicable, Soledad. The good news is that while we can never have 100 percent accuracy -- we're human beings, and machines are fallible, as well -- we can certainly do better than the average results that we obtained in '03 and the results that apparently were obtained this year in '05. And if this technology is deployed, there's technology like back scatter, that can actually see through clothing and see weapons that are hidden on the body. And there's a way to deal with the privacy concerns that are attendant to that -- multi x-ray machines, for example; TIP library images that can project fake images onto screens to test the alertness of screeners.
All these things are possible. They need to be deployed at airports throughout the country. It's an investment of money, of course, but we can't scrimp when it comes to the security of the United States.
O'BRIEN: So it's possible and we can do better. It costs money, obviously.
Do you think, at the end of the day, then, the money is the only reason that we haven't seen these things?
ERVIN: I think money is part of the answer. I also think, frankly, that there hasn't been the urgency in terms of implementing these recommendations that there needs to be. We all know that al Qaeda continues to want to attack the United States. They've made it clear that air travel is a mode that they're still interested in using. And we all know that there are vulnerabilities. So it's absolutely critical that the new leadership team at the Department, about which, by the way, I'm very optimistic, will embrace the recommendations that were made in '03 and implement them quickly. There's not a moment to waste.
O'BRIEN: Yes or no, are we any safer than we were back in 2001?
ERVIN: Yes, we are. And I'm glad that you asked that question. Airport screeners is one line of defense against another 9/11 style attack, and it's really the last one before the -- before passengers board airplanes. But there are other layers. Cockpit doors have been hardened. Some pilots are armed. And airport perimeters are more secure, generally. And screeners, for all the problems, are better trained and more sensitized than they were on 9/11.
Having said that, though, these results show that in terms of the ability to detect these deadly weapons, screeners are no better able to do so today than they were four years ago. And that's unacceptable. We can do better and we must do better.
O'BRIEN: Clark Kent Ervin, former inspector general of homeland security.
Nice to talk to you.
Thank you for being with us this morning.
ERVIN: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: A reminder, you want to stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Let's go back to Oklahoma City and Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
The tragedy here in Oklahoma City brought many people together, people that never knew each other prior to that morning. Through the terror of that April morning, though, they need each other today more than ever, including the next two people you will meet here. They say they have never sat down before for a television interview. It's one story you will only see here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
AREN ALMON KOK, MOTHER: Oh, I've got a lady bug. Trudy and I used to call Baylee Lady Bug.
HEMMER (voice-over): Aren Kok is saying another good-bye to her daughter Baylee and getting ready for another dreaded milestone.
ALMON KOK: And I'm really ready to get the 10-year anniversary over with, I think. It's been so much buildup to then that I know on the 20th it's all over. And I'm really looking forward to that.
HEMMER: Of the thousands of images that emerged from the rubble of Oklahoma City, this one captured the moment and became a symbol of that day's brutality. Chris Fields, a firefighter, is holding the lifeless body of Aren's daughter Baylee.
ALMON KOK: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: The day after that image was captured, Aren, then a 22- year-old mother, invited Chris to her home to say thank you for trying.
CHRIS FIELDS, FIREFIGHTER: She usually calls first.
HEMMER: Now, 10 years later, they consider themselves lifelong friends.
(on camera): So how are we to understand your relationship today? Was it big brother and little sister?
FIELDS: Big brother and younger sister.
ALMON KOK: Yes.
FIELDS: Yes.
HEMMER: Every month or so, they talk on the phone to give each other support or just to catch up or if one of them is having a bad day fighting the memories of who was lost.
Chris was on the scene just 20 minutes when police officer John Avery called for his help. Avery found Baylee buried in the rubble, handed her to Fields and went searching for more survivors. Today, Avery images Baylee as an 11-year-old girl.
JOHN AVERY: When I go to school plays, when I go to church and they pray to the children across the stage to do things, it makes me terribly, terribly sad. I think about her every time when that happens.
HEMMER: She was one of 19 children killed in the building. And out of that devastation, years later, a friendship is holding strong.
FIELDS: I'm glad that I'm in that position that she depends on me for, you know, for strength or just a sounding board. I'm glad to be there for her.
ALMON KOK: Baylee is still a very big part of our family and we talk about her a lot. I live with missing Baylee every day.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
HEMMER: Our coverage continues from Oklahoma City.
We're about two hours away from the memorial service beginning here. It is no doubt going to be another day of memories for so many people here in Oklahoma.
Also in a moment, a woman who lost two grandsons that day in the bombing. She'll talk to us about her monthly letters to Terry Nichols, now behind bars, and why she believes he and Timothy McVeigh were not the only ones behind the attack.
That's a bit later here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Jack and the Question of the Day -- good morning, again.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Soledad.
A growing number of pharmacists refusing to pill prescriptions -- pill prescriptions. A play on words. Fill prescriptions related to contraception or abortion on moral grounds. It's called the pharmacist's right of conscience. It's being questioned in 23 states. Some law makers want legislation that would allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions they disagree with. Other states are ordering pharmacists to fill any legal prescription without delay.
The question this morning is this -- should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions?
Lorenzo in Texas: "Revoke their license. What's next, firemen who choose which fires to fight or police who decide whom to protect?"
Laura in New York writes: "Yes, they should be. If a pharmacy isn't government owned or subsidized, the pharmacist should have the right as a citizen to act according to his or her own conscience. If they lose business, then so be it. Taking a stand is never easy, but the alternative of personal dishonor is far worse."
J.S. in California: "I want to become a pharmacist and a Christian scientist. Christian scientists don't believe in modern medicine, meaning no prescriptions for anybody. It would be wonderful to have a job and then refuse to do it."
Somebody who is not getting enough sleep.
O'BRIEN: They don't get paid.
CAFFERTY: And I like this. Randy in Ontario: "Jack, you're living proof why pharmacists should always allow birth control prescriptions to be filled."
Touche.
O'BRIEN: That's pretty funny.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Well, we all know that exercise is good for u. But if you work out and you don't get skinnier, are you actually fit? We're going to page Dr. Gupta just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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