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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
Pope Benedict XVI's Inaugural Mass
Aired April 24, 2005 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN INT'L. ANCHOR: Another moment of transition in the Catholic Church. In about an hour Pope Benedict XVI celebrates his first Sunday mass.
More violence in Iraq: Car bombs target Iraqis and U.S. soldiers.
And tens of thousands march in Armenia's capital to mark what they call the Armenian genocide, a claim Turkey denies.
Hello and welcome, I'm Fionnuala Sweeney at CNN Center. We welcome our viewers from around the world.
In about an hour the first Sunday mass lead by Pope Benedict XVI will begin at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The Vatican has completed final preparations for the ceremony. Rome and the Vatican City are experiencing a crush of visitors. Half a million people are expected to attend the inauguration.
Well, security is tight as well. Some 7,000 security officers, including those on VIP detail, will patrol the area. And Italy's civil aviation authority has established a no fly zone over Rome during the inauguration.
Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci joins us now with this live update on the situation at the Vatican.
Alessio, you're down there with the crowds. What is the atmosphere like?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Good morning, Fionnuala. Everything is ready. We're about an hour away from the beginning of this very solemn mass. And people have been converging here in St. Peter's Square and the areas surrounding the Vatican for the last few hours now.
Let me take you on a tour, just a little bit, to see a little bit what it looks like. People, of course, from all around the world, from Germany, of course, the native country of the new pope, but also we've seen flags from Portugal, from Canada, and as well, from Poland; the native country of the late Pope John Paul II.
As you mentioned, security is extremely tight. We understand from the Italian police, 7,000 security officers are on hand, including those, of course, who are protecting the many hundreds of dignitaries and religious leaders who are expected to attend this mass and arrive here in this area in about half an hour or so.
From the Italian civil protection we understand 2,000 volunteers are on hand, including some 300 of them coming from the northeastern part of Italy, where of course they speak German. Obviously, they expect a massive influx of German speaking people here, therefore they want to make sure that those in charge of protecting and helping out those in need can actually the German language.
And as far as medical emergency, we understand there are eight first aide tents, 100 doctors on standby and some 50 first-response medical teams.
Now, of course, this mass will be -- or it will be the final act of papal transition between Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. It is a mass filled and steeped in tradition. Filled with symbols, however, which have changed over the years.
VINCI (voice over): Until recently papal coronations looked quite different from the installation of Pope Benedict XVI. Pope's were carried on a throne and wore a crown. The three-tiered papal crown was called the tiara, also known as triregnum. It was actually three crowns put together.
One symbolizing the pontiff's role as universal pastor; the second, his supremacy over ecclesiastical jurisdiction; and the third, his political role as head of the papal states.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a sign of all people that there was a glory with the pope. Sometimes the most important there was in that time the political glory. But some other times, the spiritual glory as the successor of Peter and Vicar of Christ.
VINCI: Until the late 19th century, popes were called papa rei (ph), or imperial popes. They ruled over large stretches of land and maintained close ties with other European monarchs. They were installed in formal ceremonies, literally called coronations. But in more recent times the inauguration of a pope has been everything from a lavish ceremony to a secret affair.
(on camera): Between 1870 and 1929, this agreement between newly unified Italy and the Vatican State kept popes in voluntary confinement, here behind Vatican walls, making any kind of public coronation impossible.
(voice over): Mussolini and Pius XI resolved the dispute in 1929. And in 1939, 350,000 thronged St. Peter's Square for the inauguration of Pius XII, the first outdoor papal coronation in almost a century.
In 1963, Paul VI was the last pope to be installed with a formal crowning ceremony. He ended up donating his tiara to a national shrine in Washington, D.C., demonstrating, he said, his affection for the church in the U.S. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still today, the tiara is used to collect money for charity and every year the pope received from the American church, money exactly for the poor.
VINCI (voice over): When John Paul I was elected in 1978, he became the first modern pope to refuse a formal coronation. Although his installation mass was attended by many of the world's monarchs.
And in a precedent setting move, he refused to be paraded on a throne. The tiara was replaced by now familiar papal miter. Popes also began wearing a white woolen cloak, call a pallium, to symbolize their ecclesiastical rank.
When he died unexpectedly one month after being elected, he was succeeded by John Paul II, who likewise refused to be carried on a throne or don the tiara. He was installed with a solemn mass in St. Peter's Square attended by tens of thousands.
VINCI: And Fionnuala, as you can see here, behind me, everything is of course is ready in St. Peter's Basilica. As people continue to arrive here you may see a bit of an empty space around me here, that is because at the end of the mass we do expect Pope Benedict XVI to take a tour in the now-famous pope mobile, the pope mobile that was made famous by John Paul II. It will be quite a scene to see the new pope touring this square, which is filled with tens of thousands of pilgrims, not bad for a pope who was supposed to have little appeal with the public. Fionnuala, back to you.
SWEENEY: All right. Alessio Vinci there, reporting live from St. Peter's Square, in Rome. Be sure to stay with CNN we'll bring you complete coverage of Pope Benedict XVI inauguration mass at St. Peter's Basilica. Our coverage beginning at 0730 hours, GMT. That is in less than 25 minutes from now with Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour, correspondents Jim Bittermann, as well as Alessio, and Vatican analysts John Allen and Delia Gallagher. That, as I say, in just over 20 minutes from now.
Well, to other news: Twin suicide car bombs were detonated Sunday in Tikrit, Iraq. Police say the bombings targeted a police training center and the government office nearby. At least six people are reported killed.
A police official says recruits were preparing to depart for training in Amman, Jordan. And the U.S. military says the Iraqis are showing a growing willingness to help battle the insurgency. As a result American commanders say they have detained suspects in the downing of a commercial helicopter. Ryan Chilcote reports.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Insurgent video of the helicopter wreckage and ruthless execution of it sole survivor show the insurgents seemingly beyond the reach of justice. Until, the U.S. military says, an Iraqi came forward. We had an Iraqi citizen come to our forward operating base and inform us that he was aware of the helicopter having crashed in a certain area. And he knew of a wounded pilot that was in the area as well. He requested that we come with him.
CHILCOTE: The military says the tipster's information eventually lead them to suspects, rounded up in separate raids.
In the western part of the capitol, Saturday, an Iraqi convoy came under fire, killing at least nine Iraqi soldiers, wounding at least 20 more. On the road to Baghdad's airport, the aftermath of another bombing, this time apparently targeting U.S. troops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When a U.S. convoy was passing an explosion happened. We don't know if it was an IED or a car bomb. Shrapnel was everywhere.
CHILCOTE: Just two of at least five car bombings Saturday, in a country where even yesterday's dead, killed as they walked out of a mosque, can't be buried in peace.
U.S. military has long be frustrated with their inability to gather intelligence from Iraqis, who fear retaliation from insurgents and lack confidence in American troops. But the military says Iraqis are now breaking their silence, emboldened by a new found confidence in their own military, politicians and violence fatigue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even Shias are becoming fed up with all the violence. Let's face it the insurgents and terrorists are killing many Iraqi innocent civilians and not just their intended targets.
CHILCOTE: Winning the trust of average Iraqis, say military officials, will likely signify the turning point in this fight against insurgents -- Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.
SWEENEY: Romania says it has made contact with the kidnappers of three Rumanian journalists held in Iraq. Bucharest says all are alive and well. A video broadcast by Al Jazeera, shows the kidnapped journalists and says they will be killed unless Romania withdraws its troops within four days. Romania's president says the government is doing all it can to win their release.
The U.S. Army faces criticism over reports of its internal investigation of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. Photos of the abuse of detainees focused global attention on the U.S. military. The Army's top investigator has cleared four top Army officers of any wrong-doing. "The Washington Post" reports, the only officer who will be sanctioned is Brigadier General Janice Karpinski. Lower ranking soldiers already convicted came from her brigade. Human rights groups say an independent investigation is needed.
And Iraqi's national assembly reconvenes as the negotiations continue among the parties. Reports suggest a transitional government might be revealed. Observers note high frustrations among Iraqis, nearly three months after the historic elections.
Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi urges the assembly to end the stand off. Kurds are reported to oppose the nomination of Shiite Ibrahim Il-Jaafari as prime minister. And Shia factions are reported to be opposed to the inclusion of ministers from Mr. Allawi's secular party.
It began with a new apology from Japan for its imperial aggressions, but are Beijing and Tokyo on track for better relations? Saturday's meeting between the leaders of the two nations follows weeks of anti-Japanese protests in China. Atika Shubert reports.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi extending a hand to Chinese President Hu Jintao in their first high-level talks since anti-Japan protests in China turned violent weeks ago.
Koizumi described the meeting as very useful and a frank exchange of ideas. Saying bilateral relations must be repaired immediately.
JUNICHIRO KOIZUMI, PRIME MINISTER OF JAPAN (through translator): Japan and China have never needed each other as much as today. And we would like to further promote this sort of relationship instead of criticizing each other for the past.
SHUBERT: Strain have come from several issues, namely thousands of Chinese taking frustration to the streets; frustration over the Japanese prime minister's annual visit to a Tokyo Shrine that honors Japan's war dead, including more than 1,000 war criminals from World War II. Koizumi says he will consider China's demands to halt the visit but that new policy on the shrine has been made yet.
The Chinese president also brought up another thorny issue, Taiwan. Earlier this year, Japan and the United States agreed to consider Taiwan a, quote, "joint security concern". But China considers Taiwan a renegade province. And President Hu bluntly warns Japan against supporting it.
HU JINTAO, PRESIDENT OF CHINA (through translator): It is hoped that the Japanese side will demonstrate concrete actions. Its adherence to the one-China policy in opposition to Taiwan's independence.
SHUBERT: Saturday's talks may have broken the ice, but that my do little to quell plans for more anti-Japan protests in China, but analysts believe it's a start. Atika Shubert, CNN, Tokyo.
SWEENEY: Polls have opened in Togo's presidential election. The ballot comes amid appeals for calm by the West African nation's acting head of state. One of the four candidates for president pulled out on Saturday and there are widespread fears violence may erupt again. Tensions have been high in the run up to the polls. Weeks of opposition protests and clashes with authorities left several dead and dozens injured.
A journalist in Lome told us opposition demands that elections be delayed have gone unheeded.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BRYAN MEALER, JOURNALIST: The opposition has, for a long time called for the elections to be postponed or canceled on -- saying that the ruling party in the government had committed some voting irregularities with the registration and they weren't included in the electoral process. But what's at stake is really the future because Togo is still reeling from 38 years of dictatorship. I think everybody just kind of wants to have a leader elected fairly, transparently. And you know, get on with their lives (ph).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SWEENEY: Well, Faure Gnassinbe, son of the late president, is considered the front-runner. The army appointed him president when his father died. But violent protests and international pressure forced him to step down.
In less than an hour the Vatican will officially install Pope Benedict XVI as leader of the Roman Catholic Church. Coming up we'll have a live report.
And Armenia agrees, marchers gathered what they call a genocide. Stay with us.
SWEENEY: You're looking at live pictures from St. Peter's Square, where in less than an hour from now the investiture of Pope Benedict XVI will take place.
Half a million people expected there in the square, heads of state, the civil aviation is banned from the skies over the Vatican City. Much anticipation as to what Cardinal Ratzinger, who will of course be Pope Benedict XVI, will say in his first public sermon. For more on that now, let's go to our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour.
She is at the Vatican with a preview of our complete coverage -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Fionnuala, exactly.
This is the grand finale, if you like, of our extended coverage on Vatican affairs, ever since Pope John Paul II died. Through that incredible period of mourning, his stellar funeral, the outpouring from all over the world about him, and now expectations and the hopes for the new pope, Pope Benedict XVI.
This will be the first mass of his papal ministry. It is called the installation, the inauguration, or the investiture. But what it is, is the very starting point of his papal ministry.
And there are hundreds of thousands people who have come here to St. Peter's, to Rome, to try to witness this. Those who can will cram themselves into the square and those who cannot will watch it on screens, either public ones or the ones in their hotel rooms or their homes.
This is a point of great interest. As soon as that white wisp of smoke came, after only four ballots, on Tuesday the 19 of April, people rushed here to see who the new pope would be. When Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, as he was then, came onto the balcony and extended an embrace to the world.
There were differing opinions, of course, much of the world, the conservative wing of the Catholic Church rejoiced that this was going to be a man who followed very closely in the footsteps, both personally and doctrinally, the footsteps of Pope John Paul II. There were others who had hoped for perhaps a more reformists pope and they were somewhat skeptical.
But everybody is saying give this pope a chance. Let's see what he does now that he has moved from being the head of the Congregation on Doctrine and Faith, which is a very orthodox, theological position, to now the pastor of the world's 1.1 billion Catholics. And this is going to be the starting point. As I said, perhaps a half a million people expected here in and around the Vatican City.
And of course, huge security as you can imagine; many dignitaries from around the world including heads of state, heads of government. Less, of course, than for the funeral of Pope John Paul II, but nonetheless an important cast of characters, including religious leaders from many different religions and all different branches of the Catholic and Christian community.
So, we're going to be covering this extensively. We have our analysts, our other CNN reporters on the scene and we'll be bringing you, not just the color and the events of today, but a great deal of analysis and we'll try to look forward to what this new pope, Pope Benedict XVI will do for the world's 1.1 billion Catholics, Fionnuala.
SWEENEY: All right. For the moment, Christiane Amanpour, there in Rome. The coverage beginning, of course, on CNN in just 10 minutes from now.
Well, in the meantime, to other news. In Yerevan, Armenia has been marking the 90th anniversary of what it calls the Armenian genocide. Armenia says that between 1915 and 1923, more than a million were killed in purges by the Ottoman Empire.
Modern Turkey strongly disputes Armenia's charges of genocide. Turkey maintains that both sides suffered during the conflict and that there was no systematic effort by the Ottoman/Turks to kill Armenians. Turkey also says more than 500,000 Turks were killed by Armenian, starting earlier in 1910.
In the United States, the White House's embattled nominee for ambassador to the U.N. faces more criticism from yet another former colleague. It has Washington wondering if his candidacy will survive. White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Despite repeated endorsement from the highest level of the administration ...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John's distinguished career and service to our nation demonstrates that he is the right man.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm an enthusiastic backer of John.
MALVEAUX: John Bolton's nomination to become U.N. ambassador heated up over the weekend, when yet another former employee came forward alleging mistreatment.
Lynn Dee Finney says that in the early '80s Bolton tried to get her fired when they worked together at the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID.
Friday Finney submitted a letter to Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer. In that letter, given to CNN by Boxer's office, Finney says Bolton threatened to get rid of her after a dispute they had over her refusal to promote a controversial U.S. policy.
Finney says it was a question of conscience, which resulted in her desk being moved "to a shabby, windowless office in the basement, in order to force me to leave."
But she says the head of the USAID at the time, Peter McPherson, apologized for Bolton's behavior and asked her to stay. But when CNN spoke with McPherson by phone, he said he had no recollection of the incident.
And a State Department spokesman told CNN, "We've looked into the allegations. We can't find anyone who was at USAID at the time to corroborate."
MALVEAUX (on camera): Finney has declined numerous requests to come forward to speak publicly about her case. In the meantime, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is considering interviewing her, under oath.
And still the larger question remains, what will it take for Bolton's nomination to sink or survive? -- Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Crawford, Texas.
SWEENEY: And still ahead on world news, our latest global weather forecast. And after starring in more than 100 films, an Academy award-winner and one of Britain's heroes of the silver screen dies at the age of 97. That's coming up after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SWEENEY: Acting legend Sir John Mills has died in his home in Dunham, England, after a short illness. Rosalie Church has more on his life and work.
ROSALIE CHURCH, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The 1970s brought Sir John Mills two of his highest honors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The winner is John Mills, in "Ryan's Daughter".
CHURCH: His performance as a mute in "Ryan's Daughter" won him the Oscar for best supporting actor in 1971. And Queen Elizabeth knighted him for his achievements in film, a few years later.
A supporting role in 1939's "Good Bye, Mr. Chips", first brought him international attention. And in 1946 he got his first big film lead playing Pip in an adaptation of the Dickens' novel, "Great Expectations".
Mills may be best remembered for numerous patriotic roles in British war movies, such as "Above Us The Waves" and "Dunkirk". Perhaps playing soldiers and sailors came easily to him because he had lived the part. He served in the Army in World War II.
JOHN MILLS: Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm very happy, very proud and ...
CHURCH: For Mills, show business was a family business. He was married to the famous novelist and playwright, Mary Halley Bell for more than 60 years. Son Jonathan is a screenwriter, and daughters Juliet and Halley are successful actresses in their own right.
In 1959, when Halley was 12 her father starred with her in the film, "Tiger Bay". It was her acting debut.
Mills lost his sight almost completely in the early 1990s, but continued to work for several more years. At the age of 95 the man who had once played Hamlet at London's famous old Vic (ph) Theater, showed off his range in his final role. It was a cameo appearance in 2003's "Bright Young Things". He played a cocaine snorting party guest, an offbeat end to a long, successful and varied career.
Sir John Mills, dead at the age of 97.
SWEENEY: I'm Fionnuala Sweeney. Stay tuned now for the complete coverage of the investiture of Pope Benedict XVI.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) AMANPOUR: Good morning and welcome. I'm Christiane Amanpour at Vatican City, and this is our extended coverage of the first papal mass of Pope Benedict XVI, his inauguration, his installation, his investiture. This is the beginning of his papal ministry.
The bells are already tolling above St. Peter's Square, the bells of St. Peter's Basilica, and in about half an hour from now, the first mass will begin. Dignitaries are coming now to the Vatican, and there will be many. Of course, not as many as there will for the funeral of Pope John Paul II, but nonetheless, heads of state, heads of government, religious leaders, not just from the Catholic and all other elements of the Christian faith, but also of other faiths.
This will be an open air investiture mass, and perhaps that symbolizes something of what John Paul II was, the open, embracing pope that this pope has also said he wants to follow in that tradition. So this first open air mass, perhaps a signal of where he wants to go.
It was just less than a week ago when that wisp of white smoke went up, and after only four ballots, Cardinal Ratzinger, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (sic), was announced as the new pope. There was cheering in Vatican Square. But there were also a few faces that fell.
This is a controversial appointment, according to many. It is one that many say we're going to have to wait and see. Of course, it's caused much delight in many parts of the Catholic faith, which really believes that it needs to stick to a conservative and true moral values in order to empower and enlarge the church. Others were hoping for a more reformist successor to Pope John Paul II.
We're not only going to be covering his first papal mass, but we will also be talking about what he will be, now that he is pastor to the world's 1.1 billion Catholics, as opposed to what he was known as, the enforcer of papal and Catholic doctrine.
Joining me, as ever are CNN's analyst, John Allen, author of the book, "Conclave," and reporter for the "National Catholic Reporter," America's leading Catholic newspaper, and also Jim Bittermann, CNN's Vatican correspondent and longtime papal watcher.
This is an important moment. What are we expecting from today?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think two things to have our eye on. One is that Cardinal Ratzinger, as you said, whose public profile for 24 years was the enforcer of the faith, sort of the top cop of the Vatican, if you like, now has to make this transition to being the universal pastor of the Catholic Church and a spokesperson for moral values on the global stage. And I would expect to see a kinder, gentler Joseph Ratzinger, a message of hope and optimism, rather than sort of policing the fine points of doctrine.
The other point, Christiane, is that let's remember the man he's succeeding, John Paul II. This was his stage for 26 1/2 years. And of course, he had that special magic with crowds, above all the young, that in a certain sense, I think, was singular and almost irreplaceable. It will be fascinating to watch the extent to which in this very first outing, his very first time playing on this stage as pope, the extent to which Benedict XVI is able to recapture some of that old John Paul II magic.
AMANPOUR: Jim, you and John and many other of the correspondents here were actually invited to a papal media audience yesterday. What was that for?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Interesting. Well, I think -- I think it was to strike a positive not for the media. And one of the things that Benedict XVI said he wanted to do was continue along the lines of John Paul II.
The problem with that is that I think that we all followed John Paul II in a big way because of things he was doing, and we haven't yet seen Cardinal Ratzinger, Benedict XVI, as pope. So we want to see what -- what he can do.
And one of the things that struck me from what you were saying earlier about we were just here a week ago for the conclave, things are moving very rapidly here, indeed. I mean, and I think we're going to see him -- him moving very rapidly.
Yesterday, he gave us 15 minutes, no questions and answers, just very cut and dried and he was gone, we were gone. And I think that's what we're going to see from this papacy, is a very quick moving pope. He realizes that he's 78 years old. He may not have a lot of time here. So I think we're going to see him moving along quite rapidly. We saw a little taste of that yesterday.
AMANPOUR: When you say he's 78 and may not have a lot of time, he himself, apparently, made reference, perhaps, alluded to that right after he was elected. He talked about the brief papacy of the previous Pope Benedict.
ALLEN: That's right. Inside the conclave, of course, when a new pope is elected, there are two questions that have to be asked. One, do you accept? And second, by what name will you be known? And the new pope indicated he wished to be known as Benedict XVI and then gave an explanation, referring in the first place to St. Benedict, the founder of European monasticism and a man who tried to reawaken the Christian souls of Europe in his own time, which of course will be one of the projects of this pope.
Then he also referred to the last pope who held the name Benedict, Benedict XV, and said in that brief pontificate, he strove to promote peace in a time of war.
Obviously, at 78, Joseph Ratzinger is conscious that time may be short.
AMANPOUR: And we're talking about the First World War. The pope, Pope Benedict XV, was between 1914 and 19... ALLEN: Twenty-two.
AMANPOUR: Twenty-two. And he was known, as you say, for reconciliation and trying to -- and trying to bridge the divisions of that wartime period.
ALLEN: Yes, two fascinating things about that pontificate. First, he was a strong antiwar pope. He actually defined war as useless slaughter. Bear in mind, this was a war in which the sons of Italy were dying. It was actually a quite controversial statement for him to make.
Secondly, he is also the pope who ended the ferociously conservative anti-modernist crackdown of the pope who preceded him, Pius X.
Interesting signals there about whether or not Pope Benedict XVI may also want to be a bit more inclusive and a bit more a man of dialogue than some might have anticipated.
AMANPOUR: Just to perhaps talk over some of this audio that we're hearing, what we can also hear is the narration from Vatican radio and Vatican television, as they also are telling the world's audience what we're about to see.
What I think is an incredible accomplishment, both in terms of television and in terms of spreading the word, is the incredible power of Vatican television over the last month. This is the first time they have been so tested and the first time they have had, really, the world's stage as their -- as their audience.
BITTERMANN: One of the things they've come up with are these video news releases, which have -- I guess you'd call them the Vatican's version of them, anyway, but they've been handing out video to us on a daily basis here of things like the tomb of John Paul II, the inside of the apartments as -- as Benedict XVI was going in to visit the apartments, and all these various things that -- that -- now we're seeing some pictures here.
AMANPOUR: This is an extraordinary sight. It's the king and queen of Spain. And why is it extraordinary? Because this is the ultimate formality of Vatican regalia, when foreign dignitaries come here, and it really contrasts so strongly with the images that we saw during Pope John Paul II's funeral. The Queen arrived, Queen Sophia, similarly attired but in black. This is all in white, signaling a new day.
And we might as well take this moment to explore one of this pope's big challenges. It is going to be in the area of sexuality and morality. Spain right now is considering a bill which would legalize homosexual marriage and permit homosexual couples to adopt. And this is something that, as enforcer of the doctrine, Cardinal Ratzinger was -- spoke very, very clearly against. How is he going to deal with this issue now?
ALLEN: Well, I suspect he's going to struggle against it mightily. You'll remember, Christiane, the morning of the conclave, Cardinal Ratzinger delivered that now famous homily in which he talked about a dictatorship of relativism in the West and all of these threats he saw surrounding the church.
Clearly, I'm sure he will interpret these moves in Spain as sort of exhibit A for the prosecution, if you like, for the relativistic moral climate in the West. And he has made very clear that the re- evangelization of Europe, that is trying to reawaken the Christian soul of Europe, will be the top job, if you like, priority No. 1 of his pontificate.
And certainly, it would seem that the front lines of that battle may well be in -- let's remember -- overwhelmingly Catholic Spain.
AMANPOUR: Some more of the dignitaries are arriving now. And I think I saw previously Prince Albert of Morocco, who is not -- sorry, of Monaco, who is the new sovereign of that state since his own father, Prince Rainier, died shortly after Pope John Paul II.
BITTERMANN: Probably just worth repeating, Christiane, and in fact, I mean, the crowned heads of Europe are here because the pope is, in fact, a crowned head of Europe. They've kind of abandoned the crown the last couple of papacies, but the fact is that he is a crowned head and is an absolute monarch, one of the few absolute monarchs.
AMANPOUR: This is true, and we've talked a bit about his -- his desire, or at least his stated desire in his first mass, right after the election this Wednesday, when he really reached out and, I think, perhaps surprised some people who had -- who had gotten such a jolt from the homily that he delivered, very, very strict, quite harsh homily he delivered just before the conclave began, you know, trying to instruct the Catholics to stick to that line of truth with a capital "T" and not to, quote, follow the fashions of the day.
On his first mass after being elected, he spoke very clearly of reaching out, of continuing Pope John Paul II's ecumenism. And he's already told the chief rabbi of Rome and already told Jewish leaders that he plans to continue that reach out.
It will be interesting to see whether he does any better, for instance, than John Paul II did with the -- with the -- with the Russian Orthodox Church. And I noticed with interest that the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox did, in fact, send a congratulatory message to this new pope. Of course, he had refused to come here for the funeral of Pope John Paul II and had prevented Pope John Paul II from paying a visit to Russia, despite the fact that President Putin had long had an open invitation for that.
So perhaps -- perhaps one of the big challenges for Pope Benedict XVI is in trying to finish the rapprochement that Pope John Paul II started?
ALLEN: Yes, that's quite right. And actually, it's been fascinating to watch the reaction to Pope Benedict's election from inside the Orthodox world. There actually has been great excitement about it. Because let's remember that, despite the historical differences, the memories of the fourth crusade and so forth that divide Orthodox and Catholics, doctrinally speaking, this is a man the Orthodox admire very, very much.
And of course, he doesn't carry the baggage of being a Polish pope. And in that sense, the possibilities for rapprochement may, in fact, be greater personally, although I think we all expect that Pope Benedict will travel a good deal less than his predecessor, John Paul II. I would not at all be surprised if one of the tricks he very much tries to pencil in onto his calendar is precisely that trip to Moscow that John Paul II was never able to realize.
AMANPOUR: We're going to take this moment to go to a report from our Alessio Vinci, who's our Rome bureau chief and has been covering these momentous events ever since, certainly, the beginning of the month, when Pope John Paul II died. And the outpouring of grief, respect and admiration and leading up to this day of the investiture of the new pope.
VINCI (voice-over): Until recently, papal coronations looked quite different from the installation of Pope Benedict XVI. Popes were carried on a throne and wore a crown. The three-tiered papal crown was called the tiara, also known as "triregnum."
It was actually three crowns come together, one symbolizing the pontiff's role as universal pastor; the second, the supremacy of his ecclesiastical jurisdiction; and the third, his political role as head of the papal state.
AMBROGIO PIAZZONI, VICE-PREFECT, VATICAN LIBRARY: It was a sign for all people that there was a glory with the pope. Sometimes, more important role in that time, the political role. But some other times, the spiritual glory as a successor of Peter and vicar of Christ.
VINCI: Until the late 19th Century, popes were called "papa rei (ph)," or imperial popes. They ruled over large stretches of land and maintained close ties with other European monarchs. They were installed in formal ceremonies, literally called coronations.
But in more recent times, the inauguration of a pope has been everything from a lavish ceremony to a secret affair.
(on camera) Between 1870 and 1929, this agreement between newly unified Italy and the Vatican state kept popes in voluntary confinement here behind Vatican walls, making any kind of public coronation impossible.
(voice-over) Mussolini and Pius XI resolved the dispute in 1929 and, in 1939, 350,000 thronged St. Peter's Square for the inauguration of Pius XII, the first outdoor papal coronation in almost a century.
In 1963, Paul VI was the last pope to be installed with a formal crowning ceremony. He ended up donating his tiara to a national shrine in Washington, D.C., demonstrating, he said, his affection for the church in the U.S.
PIAZZONI: I think today the tiara is used to collect money for charity and every year, the pope receives from -- from the American church money exactly for the poor.
VINCI: When John Paul I was elected in 1978, he became the first modern pope to refuse a formal coronation, although his installation mass was attended by many of the world's monarchs. And, in a precedent setting move, he refused to be paraded on a throne. The tiara was replaced by the now familiar papal miter. Popes also began wearing a white woolen cloak called a pallium, to symbolize their ecclesiastical rank.
When he died unexpectedly one month after being elected, he was succeeded by John Paul II, who likewise, refused to be carried on a throne or don the tiara. He was installed with a solemn mass in St. Peter's Square, attended by tens of thousands.
AMANPOUR: And in the crowd now, as you can imagine, because Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as he was, is a German. And he continues the tradition of shattering Italy's monopoly over the papacy. It was John Paul II who was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years and now the German Cardinal Ratzinger is the new Pope Benedict XVI.
During the funeral of Pope John Paul II, Rome was flooded by Poles. And now, some hundred thousand Germans have come for this moment.
Alessio is in the crowd down there in St. Peter's Square. Are you -- are you talking to a lot of Germans down there? What's the mood down there?
VINCI: Hello, Christiane. This is, of course, the stage that John Paul II occupied here for the last 26 years. And of course, now we'll have to see how this new pope will -- whether he will be able to capture the same kind of crowd and magic in the same way John Paul II did.
Let me just give you a tour here of what the square looks like. First of all, of course, there's a massive security presence here. Italian police have deployed some 7,000 officers, including those who protect the many dignitaries who are arriving here at this time. The Italian Civil Protection has deployed 2,000 volunteers, including some 200 -- 300 of them coming from the northern eastern part of Italy. That is, of course, where they speak German.
And as you mentioned, there are some 100,000 Germans expected to arrive here or are already here from Germany. And of course, they have to be able to speak to them if they need.
Also a lot of people from all around the world. We met people from Mexico, from Brazil. You see a big sign here in Italian that says "Benedetto XVI tu sei pietro e noi giovani amamo (ph)," "Benedict, you are Peter, and we, the young people, will love you." Of course, we know how important the young people have been to John Paul II. And however, we know how -- how important they will be to the pontificate of Benedict XVI.
Let me also talk to -- introduce you to some of the people here in the crowd. There's a young man here from Mexico. His name is Zacarias (ph). You live in Paris, however. You made a trip here on purpose for this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I just came with my friend to this mass, to see how it goes.
VINCI: Why are you here today? Are you a Catholic? Are you a practicing Catholic? Why are you here today? What is it that you expect from Pope Benedict at this time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I expect -- I expect the best he can do for all the Catholics who are in the world. So I think he's -- he's going to do a good job in that pope, I think.
VINCI: You know, he has been described so many times as a traditionalist, as somebody who is very strict in doctrine in terms of, especially, gay marriages. I mean, very traditionalist. Were you expecting, perhaps, a pope from Latin America, or were you expecting somebody perhaps more open to the young people and to the -- to the causes of those young people? Or do you think this pope will represent your values?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the nationality doesn't -- doesn't matter in this -- in this papacy (ph). If it's German or if it's Mexican or American, it doesn't matter. But that's how he'll develop himself (ph) has been about. So that's basically what I'm...
VINCI: Zacarias (ph), thank you very much. I'm going to ask you to step out one second out of the way because we have two German -- a German couple here. We spoke so much about Germany. This is Patrick and Katharine (ph).
Patrick, let me start first with you. When you heard that Ratzinger was made pope, what was your first reaction and what do you expect from him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, I was a little bit shocked, because obviously, very exciting for him to be German and to speak our mother tongue. But on the other side, he's extremely conservative. He's an intellectual, so he's very big brained. But his views are very, very strict, and there have been lots of discussions about contraception and the AIDS problem in Africa and things like this. And he's very strict about this.
So we're a little bit wary about what -- where he will take the church. I hope he will bring peace, obviously, but it's a difficult situation, in a way.
VINCI: The description of -- of Pope Benedict you just offered is one that has been written so much about it in the media. You've seen him at work now for the last few days, and presumably, you've read what he's said. Do you think that he will try to be a more candid pope, now that he's got the big job? That he's going to try to address those issues, perhaps with a different light?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess so. He will have to try and reconciliate (sic) all of the movements in the church, and he's working for peace. That's a start. So I think that's what he's been -- he will be doing next.
VINCI: And Katharine (ph), let me ask you, what was your first reaction when -- when you heard that he was made pope?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A kind of similar reaction, but I think on the other hand it's a wonderful chance for him. And even if he is very conservative, he might change, you know, because now he has completely different responsibilities, and he has to be open minded. And he has to -- to listen to the people with their questions and hopefully find the right answers. So that's our hope.
VINCI: What do you expect him to do for you as a Catholic? What is it that you -- the first thing you would like him to do to say OK, this is a pope that really represents my value. What would you like him to see doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Personally, me, I would like to see more women included in -- in the -- in the work of the church, you know, and the responsibilities of the church. So we -- women included, that would be very great.
VINCI: Thank you very much to -- to both of you, and thank you to you, as well, Zacarias (ph).
Christiane, this is something we're hearing over and over in the crowd here. Everybody knows the values, the strict values of former Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI. But everybody also is telling us he has now a new job, a new responsibility, and they expect him eventually to change and to open up a little bit and to realize that he is the pope of all Catholics around the world.
Back to you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Alessio, thank you. And I think it's fair to say that on moments such as this, of a new beginning, that people do tend to give the occupant of high office a chance. Swiss theologian Hans Kung, who is now a leading dissident in the church, has said this week that Cardinal Ratzinger, quote, "largely lives in a medieval system of thought that opposes reforms."
On the other hand, he also said, and he's known him for about five decades and was quite close to him at one point -- he has also said, "Let's give the new pope a chance."
I think it would be remiss if we didn't just mention, as well, that in the immediate aftermath of his election, many of the tabloid newspapers, many of the newspapers in the United States and Britain and elsewhere, specifically referred to his, at age 14, membership in the Hitler Youth. In Germany, some of the newspapers have been outraged that -- that the world would focus on that when there is no evidence at all that -- that that was any -- that there was any evil intent or action on his part.
It seems that Jewish leaders around the world have already also accepted that point.
ALLEN: Yes. I actually dealt with this point in my biography of Ratzinger, that the reality is that, at that stage, membership in the Hitler Youth became compulsory for all German youth in a certain age range. He and his brother were both enrolled. He actually went to his teacher and asked to be disenrolled, never took part in any activities.
He was later, as you know, drafted into the Germany army for a brief period of time, spent about six...
AMANPOUR: Anti-aircraft gunner.
ALLEN: An anti-aircraft gunner, although he never fired a gun, apparently. So he says. There are no records.
But the point is there is absolutely no evidence to indicate that there was some kind of pro-Nazi inclination.
AMANPOUR: I think that -- that what really concerns people is not what he did at 14 years old but what he will do at 78 years old, in terms of being the head of the Roman Catholic Church.
We have a short profile on his theological experience. Paula Zahn now.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST, "PAULA ZAHN NOW" (voice-over): As a cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger headed one of the most important departments in the Vatican bureaucracy for more than 20 years. It's called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It's the office that three and a half centuries ago was in charge of the Inquisition.
He was born in Germany in 1927, son of a Bavarian policeman. When the Nazis came to power, like most German boys, he was enrolled in the Hitler Youth. In the war, he served in an anti-aircraft unit but says he never fired a shot in anger.
He became a priest and then a cardinal in 1977. Cardinal Ratzinger forcefully guarded the absolutes of the church, whether talking about theocracy or morality. Just before the conclave began, he argued, "Here are some truths that don't change, that can't be compromised." Over the years, he has butted heads with theologians and teachers, silencing dissent, shutting down debate over issues such as homosexuality and the ordination of women.
The cardinal's critics accused him of helping Pope John Paul II put brakes on some of the reforms undertaken at the second Vatican Council, to which Ratzinger was an adviser. He was considered a liberal back then. His thinking changed in the turmoil of the student revolts of the late 1960s.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has been described by church watchers as a conservative conservative. It's a reputation that follows him as he assumes his new job, pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
AMANPOUR: And as we see those pictures of that day, Tuesday, just earlier this week, when he was elected and then named. He stepped out onto the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica.
Again, we're waiting to see how his homily, certainly, in this first papal mass, first mass of his papal ministry, how that will reflect, perhaps, what he plans to do and how he plans to lead the church. How does he go from being the theological and doctrinal enforcer to the pastor of the biggest Christian church in the world?
Then 1.1 billion Catholics are looking to see how he's going to reinforce the Catholic Church, which in parts of the world is in crisis, with dropping off in terms of numbers of people who go to church with a severe lack of priests. Many parishes don't even have a dedicated priest.
And these will all be issues that face modern people in today's 21st Century life. And that is going to be the great challenge, because Cardinal Ratzinger, in his very strict homily on the day of the beginning of the conclave, stuck very closely to his traditional line, which was he called, and criticized what he called a dictatorship of relativism by which he basically said that the world is not just moving to a secular dictatorship but that relativism is a lack of certainty, a lack of moral constancy, a lack of truth with a big "t." And he is calling for the Catholic Church to return to that.
So, will he go for a smaller, much more committed Catholic Church? Will he accept that many of the people who disagree with his strict preachings and who today follow their own consciences will simply not be participating members in the communions, so to speak? Will he go for quality over quantity? That is what we're going to be watching for.
John and Jim, today's first papal mass is going to be interesting. For instance, they're going to break with tradition, aren't they, in that -- that part that we call the obedience?
ALLEN: Quite right. Typically speaking, this would be simply the cardinals processing up to pledge fealty to the new pope. But instead of just all the would-be representatives of the cardinals, there will also be representatives of other groups, the idea being that this is not just a business for the cardinals. But this is the entire church and in some sense the entire world that is joining in here.
And so it is, to some extent, a symbol of this pope and this Vatican's desire to sort of reach out to encompass the entire world.
AMANPOUR: And who -- give us an idea of who's going to be represented.
ALLEN: There will be a married couple that will be taking part. There will also be representatives of religious orders in the church. And let's not forget religious orders sometimes felt a little neglected under the papacy of John Paul II, because of his preference for the new movements. So this is a deliberately inclusive note.
AMANPOUR: We watch the beginning of the procession to the beginning of this mass. This is going to last for about four or five minutes as they come out of the basilica.
BITTERMANN: This is -- what is interesting about this, is Christiane that they're going to the tomb of St. Peter. And this is a symbolic visual link to the continuity of the church. I mean, for me it really is an amazing departure from a regular mass, in the sense that, I mean, this pope is linking himself directly to all the popes of the past by going to the tomb at this stage of the mass.
ALLEN: And it probably ought to -- just bears repeating that St. Peter's Basilica is constructed where it is because this is believed to be the very burial spot of St. Peter himself. And the pope will be processing down to the place where the bones of Peter are believed to rest.
Of course, they were lost for 2,000 years and discovered only during a period under Pius XII, in the middle of the 20th Century, when they were doing some renovation to lower the floor of the grotto. And they happened to come across this niche in an old pagan burial ground which had a purple bag with bones within it. And they tested them, and they were, in fact, dated back to the First Century. And there was an inscription, saying, "This is Peter." And so this is a modern discovery but a modern discovery resting on a very ancient belief.
AMANPOUR: Let's just watch for a second as a huge cheer goes up from the crowd. They can see this on their screens outside.
AMANPOUR: So now we're looking at a picture again. We just saw -- there is Pope Benedict XVI. We just saw the crowd, parts of the crowd outside.
BITTERMANN: The 265th pope, sanctifying the bones of the first leader of the Catholic Church, the original.
ALLEN: There, of course, we see images of the -- the stole, the pallium, that will shortly be placed upon Joseph Ratzinger's shoulders, indicating the yoke of Christ. That is that he is taking upon himself the burden of being the shepherd of the Roman Catholic Church.
ALLEN: For our viewers who aren't accustomed to these things, it might be worth pointing out that that piece of headgear that the pope is wearing is called a miter. Of course, it has two points, representing the Old and the New Testament.
The cross he's carrier is called a crozier. It is not just a cross. It is also the shepherd's staff, again symbolizing his role as the shepherd of his flock.
ALLEN: At this stage now, the cardinals and the pope are beginning the procession out into St. Peter's Square to -- to begin -- to begin the mass of Pope Benedict XVI's installation, the formal name of which is the mass to mark the beginning of his service as a successor of Peter.
AMANPOUR: And you mentioned the pallium, which will be laid across his shoulders as a scarf, and it will have -- it will have the crosses.
ALLEN: That's right. Five red crosses, symbolizing, of course, the five wounds of Christ. It's worth noting that this pallium is not, actually, the same pallium that John Paul II and his immediate predecessors wore. This is a longer pallium, which is an attempt to go back to the original model in the early centuries of the church.
Cardinal Ratzinger at Vatican II was very much an advocate of what is known in French as "resourcement (ph)." That is a return to the sources, getting back to the sort of earliest forms of worship and expression. This would certainly be of a piece with that movement.
AMANPOUR: And that will constitute the actual moment of investiture or inauguration, when he has the -- that pallium...
ALLEN: And then, of course, the...
AMANPOUR: And the ring.
ALLEN: That's right.
AMANPOUR: And how does the ring differ from the one John Paul II wore?
ALLEN: Where, in recent pontificates, there were actually two different items. One was a ring which was a seal, the form of a papal seal for sealing documents and so forth. And typically, popes didn't wear that. They would simply wear their ring when they became a bishop.
But what is happening now is that Pope Benedict XVI will actually be wearing the seal as his ring, although it will still have the image of the fisherman. Just remember that Peter, of course, was a fisherman when, according to Catholic belief, Jesus called him to be the first among the disciples.
AMANPOUR: And of course, tradition has it that each pope has his own new ring, because when Pope John Paul Ii died, we spoke a lot about they had to break his ring.
ALLEN: That's right. And this, of course, goes back into the medieval period, when it would sometimes happen during interregnum, which were not too big (ph) affairs. Often these would go on for months or even years. You had the problem of false documents being circulated, claiming that they were documents of the old pope.
And so to ensure that that sort of thing didn't happen, they would actually shatter the seal so that new documents could not be sealed.
And like so many things in Catholic life, this is a -- it's a practice whose original logic has to some extent been lost. But it's been maintained as a reminder of the church's continuity through the centuries.
AMANPOUR: And we have told our viewers around the world and the United States, as well, that really, from the moment Pope John Paul became ill -- and now they are walking out again. You can hear the crowd start to cheer again. They're walking out to start the open air mass in St. Peter's Square.
But really, this whole imagery of this incredible ancient pageantry and pomp, has been a triumph for Vatican television. This has all been the new Vatican television, and of course, today, REI (ph), Italian television is taking part, as well.
But the unprecedented scenes that we've witnessed inside the basilica, whether it's the mourning period, whether it's the beginning of the conclave and the processions, all of this was Vatican television coming into its own, which by the way, was instituted by Pope John Paul Ii in terms of being such a minute chronicler of papal affairs.
ALLEN: And we might just write -- strike an American note, that Vatican television has also been supported financially and other ways by the Knights of Columbus, the largest lay organization among American Catholics.
But it is striking, Christiane, you see this centuries old ritual, which has been brought to us in exceptionally high tech fashion. And it's that blending of the old and the new that I find so striking.
AMANPOUR: But Jim, not just in terms of a technical achievement, but this is also a spiritual achievement, because they have had all of us for the last month, essentially, broadcasting the Catholic faith.
BITTERMANN: No doubt about it. They see us as sort of an extension of the pageantization. And the pope essentially said that yesterday. He said the media, when used correctly, was a telling phrase, when used correctly, would be a great means for evangelization.
Now the question will be whether or not they can always keep control over the media as well as they do now. I mean, in these circumstances, of course, we're all following the lead. These are great -- this is great pageantry. This is a great ceremony here. So there's -- there's not a lot to sort of challenge it.
But there's going to be points down the line when the media will become more critical, particularly secular media. The Catholic media, of course, they tend to follow along pretty much the church line. But the secular media is going to start looking critically at the pope, and then it will be a question of whether or not they'll enjoy it quite the same way.
ALLEN: Just picking up on what Jim is saying, you know, we know that the Congregation for Education, one of the -- one of the offices within the Vatican, is working on a document about the admission of homosexuals to seminaries. When it is issued, and we expect that will be sometime soon, that undoubtedly will generate much more critical discussion in the secular press, for which we will not be so dependent upon Vatican television for imagery.
So I think Jim's point is quite right, that in these moments, of course, you know, these pictures very much are the story, in a -- from a certain point of view. In the future, it's going to be interesting to see how they navigate these much more rocky shoals that -- that no doubt lie ahead.
BITTERMANN: A priest from the Philippines came up to me yesterday and said, "Thank you. Thank you. All my parishioners were able to participate in the last -- everything in the last two weeks just because of you." And I suppose that's -- that's one of the things we do.
But on the other hand, there's other things we do down the line I think that may not quite be the same.
AMANPOUR: I think as we look at these pictures now of the cardinals, it's important to note at this point that Pope Benedict XVI, while he could have appointed different cardinals to different jobs, for the most part, he has chosen -- and here he comes out himself, onto the steps of St. Peter's Basilica. And again, a huge cheer going up from the several hundred thousand people who have packed St. Peter's Square.
He raises his hands in the Catholic blessing, in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.
ALLEN: I think what's striking, look at the expression on his face. I mean, the smiling, waving Pope Benedict XVI, very much, in some ways, in contrast to the public image of Joseph Ratzinger we've come to know over the years. And one has a sense of a man who is sort of groping his way into this new role. AMANPOUR: We keep talking, at least I do, I keep saying here he comes out. But there are lots of outs in St. Peter's Basilica. There are different sections of the columns. But he's soon going to actually walk through those main doors, and then the crowd will be able to see him.
BITTERMANN: You know, something the Italian press has been doing, they're recently -- they're calling Benedict XVI "pastore dalesco (ph)," the German Shepherd. And of course, a German Shepherd can be viewed two ways. A German Shepherd, of course, would be an attack dog. It can be a vicious defender of things. Also, a German Shepherd can be a dog that herds sheep. And so it's actually quite a good image for...
ALLEN: Of course, the other nickname the Italians have invented, Jim, is "papa-ratzi," referring, of course, to the Italian word for those photographers who trail celebrities around. But it is indicative of the expectation that this is, like his predecessor, going to be a media savvy pope.
AMANPOUR: Well, as the procession comes to an end, the cheer goes up, and Pope Benedict XVI will take his place.
I think no matter who you are or what you think, when you look at the face of the new pope, you must imagine that he's feeling this as a truly awesome and humbling moment. Awesome in its incredible power, its reach, its responsibility. And perhaps a little bit frightening, a little bit humbling, knowing how much the whole world will be looking at you and how you have to follow in massive footsteps and massive shoes of Pope John Paul II and going back to St. Peter.
ALLEN: Yes. Christiane, you mentioned earlier that, regardless of who was elected, among Catholics, there is this overwhelming desire to love their pope.
Now as a member of the press corps, I have been not far away from where Pope Benedict is standing right now during these massive events in St. Peter's Square. And I have to say, from that vantage point, it hits you like a tidal wave, the affection, the love, the desire to connect that just rolls up from that crowd and crests over you.
And one can only imagine how that's hitting Pope Benedict XVI right now.
AMANPOUR: I think also what's interesting, I remember watching as he came out onto the balcony and then the cameras panned the crowd. And there were many ecstatic faces, but there were also many faces, I noticed, in the brief camera sweep around, that fell.
And I think this is going to be the motif of this -- of this papacy. One wing of the church, the conservative wing, is absolutely thrilled. And the other wing of the church, which hoped, perhaps for a Tettamanzi or another more, perhaps moderate new pope is going to be wondering where the mission leads over the next several years. But nonetheless, today it is a hugely enthusiastic crowd. And I think anybody who's elected to high office, no matter how or where, democratically or not -- this moment is just an incredible moment, as he now goes around the altar and blesses with incense and sanctifies not just the altar but the people as well.
ALLEN: The incense, of course, is -- it actually comes out of ancient Roman worship. And the idea is that the smoke, the sacred smoke, carries the prayers of the assembly to God. And so the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, begins by incensing the altar and then, at least symbolically, he is incensing the assembly.
AMANPOUR: Alessio Vinci is down inside the crowd. Alessio, did you feel that wave as he came out, that sort of tidal wave of applause down there?
VINCI: I think it was a very timid applause, at least from the position where I am here. I am right on the edges of St. Peter's Square, looking at the basilica.
I want to also note, of course, that we are in the middle of a mass, and therefore, you know, there are people here who are, of course, already spiritually drawn into this event. They don't necessarily see it as just an installment or an inauguration event. But this is, of course, also a mass. And it is something more (INAUDIBLE). I think more people will come here as times go on on Sundays to mass.
So we should see this, certainly, as a -- as a celebratory ceremony, but at the same time, I think that we see all around here people crossing themselves, praying. And as I speak now, there is yet another applause. So of course, obviously, there is a mixture of both, as well.
I'd like to bring in here Delia Gallagher, CNN's Vatican analyst, correspondent of inside the Vatican. Delia, you know, we've been on this square so many times before with John Paul II. What is your first impression of this square, this crowd, for the first time with a different pope?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I agree, Alessio. I think it is a tentative crowd, as you say. But again, being a new pontificate, a new pope, the people still are quite unsure.
And of course, the tidal wave effect -- he's giving the first blessing now. This is the first blessing at the beginning.
VINCI: Let's listen in to the beginning mass. Thank you.
POPE BENEDICT XVI, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: (chanting in Latin)
(MUSIC) AMANPOUR: Just for our viewers who may not be accustomed to the languages, this of course, is a mass in Latin, the very formal liturgical language.
And we were just discussing among ourselves here the significance of the color of the cardinals' robes, because we're used to seeing them in that incredibly distinctive crimson.
John Allen is telling us that...
ALLEN: Well, this is still within the Catholic Church, in the liturgical calendar, this is considered the Easter season. So white is a symbol of resurrection, new life. It's also symbolically appropriate, Christiane, because white is the papal color. The pope is always vested in white. And so there is something metaphorically appropriate about the color that the cardinals are wearing today.
AMANPOUR: And while we're talking about color, as the "Gloria" is being chanted, we've been told helpfully by the Vatican press office that inside, around the altar, as we saw the cardinals processing out, were 20,000 flowers in white and yellow, the color of the Vatican flower.
ALLEN: This, of course, is the Sistine Chapel Choir. That's Monsignor Giuseppe Liberto, who is the director of the choir.
AMANPOUR: As you look there at that wide shot of the dignitaries who are standing not far from where Pope Benedict XVI is, we just mentioned, also, that we've seen a picture of the American delegation, led by Governor Jeb Bush of Florida, who is, of course, the brother of the president of the United States, George W. Bush. He himself is a Catholic. He converted. And he held a press conference here in Rome yesterday.
He's accompanied by Congressman Peter King, also a prominent Catholic in the House of Representatives of the United States.
AMANPOUR: After that -- after that rousing "Gloria," we have prayers. There will be the readings, and after that, the formal investiture.
POPE BENEDICT XVI: (speaking foreign language)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language)
ALLEN: The Acts of the Apostles will describe a sermon given by Peter. JUSTIN FERGUSON: A reading from the Acts of the Apostles. "Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, spoke up. 'Leaders of the people, if we must answer today (INAUDIBLE) and explain how he was restored to power (ph), then you and all the people of Israel must realize that it was done in the name of Jesus Christ, the Nazarene, whom you crucified and whom God raised from the dead. In the power of that name, this man stands before you, perfectly sound. This Jesus is the stone, rejected by you the villagers, which has become the cornerstone. There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name in the whole world given but to men by which we are to be saved."
BITTERMANN: The first reading was done by a young man, we presume American, named Justin Ferguson. All this to symbolize the universality of the church.
This reading, of course, is in Spanish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Dear brothers. I exalt the presbytism (INAUDIBLE), as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed. Tend to the flock of God in your midst, overseeing not by constraints by willingly as God would have it. Not for shameful profit but eagerly.
Do not lord it over those entrusted to you, but the examples to the flock. And when the chief shepherd is revealed, you will receive the unfading crown of glory, and likewise, you younger members be subject to the presbyters. And all of you clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for God opposes the proud and bestows favor on the humble.
May the God of all grace who has called you to his eternal glory through Christ himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you after you have suffered a little and to him be dominion forever, amen. This is the word of the Lord, thanks be to God.
BITTERMANN: It might be worth noting, Christiane, that that reading in Spanish might have a particular resonance today because yesterday, when the new pope met with the press, he spoke in four languages, he spoke in Italian, in English, in German and in French.
It did not escape the attention of Spanish speakers that their language was not spoken by the next pope, and of course in the context of the fact that many Latin Americans had been hoping, perhaps, for a Latin American pope, this had a special kind of symbolic importance, so the fact that Spanish was prominently featured in the mass today certainly will to some extent be reassuring to those Latin American Catholics, almost half the Catholics of the world today.
AMANPOUR: I think also, Jim, good to know that a young woman delivered the reading in Spanish and there is some contentiousness among many women in many parts of the World in the Catholic Church that simply forbids them taking up some of the highest offices, for instance, ordination.
BITTERMANN: Well, there is a point which one can participate, of course, but when you get to the priestly functions, the women are not permitted and in some Catholic churches, depending on where you are, their roles vary, it really depends on the priest to some extent to what extent he wants them to participate in the mass.
I'd like go back to -- and maybe John would like to comment on this, but Benedict is such a traditionalist in some ways in the past, do you think -- and we mentioned this in an interview three years ago, but we get to some parts of the mass and Latin he would like to restore. Do you think we're going to go back to a period before Vatican II when you're going to see more of the mass done in Latin?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, bear in mind, the mass we see today is celebrated in Latin, but it is not the old Latin Mass. This is the post Vatican II, in other words, the reformed liturgy. But celebrated in Latin. You can, of course, celebrate the new mass in any language you like.
I think it is unlikely that Pope Benedict is going to simply cancel the liturgical reforms that came out of that council and go back to that old Tridentine Mass, but I do think in general we will see a continued move towards a more traditional, a more sober, a more referential, a more sobering style of celebrating the mass, rather than division of inculturation that had been dominant in the last 40 years, that the mass should look and feel different in Bangkok and in Bangladesh and in Boise.
AMANPOUR: And as we wait for the reading of Gospels from the Gospel of Saint John, interesting also to note that just like John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI did take part as a special assistant to a German cardinal in the reforms of Vatican II and most people analyze his conservative now as a reaction, backlash if you like, to what he in others believed was too much progress on the road to reform.
BITTERMANN: Yeah, one of the great ironies of that, Christiane, is at the council Ratzinger ghost wrote a speech for his cardinal, Cardinal Frinze (ph) in which he denounce the Congregation to the Faith as a scandal to the world, ironically, the office that 20 years later he ended up heading, and I think most people, you are right, would read that as, particularly the student protests in Europe in 1968, Ratzinger once wrote that to still be a progressive in that environment would mean losing your integrity.
And what he meant by that is this simply wasn't retouching around the edges, this was a massive abandonment, in his eyes, of traditional Christian doctrine and identity and I think is steadily more traditionalist or conservative orientation results from that experience.
AMANPOUR: And he again, not only in the homily of the mass last Monday at the start of the conclave, but in the last known English interview he gave, which was in 2003, again, he kept speaking about this crisis of relativism, he has upgraded that to now a dictatorship of relativism, but it is clearly something that worries him a lot, the fact that he complains nothing anymore is certain, there is no one truth, people pick and choose, ride the waves of fashions of the day and as he said, really cater to their own egos and desires rather than to the strict adherence of the doctrine.
So the question people are looking at a lot now, I think conservatives and moderates, how will he do his mission to bring more people into the church?
AMANPOUR: These Gospel readings, as you heard, this last one was in Latin and we believe it is going to be repeated in Greek, the two ancient languages of the faith.
KING: John Paul II used to love to talk about Europe and the church breathing with both its lungs and that's what this symbolizes.
AMANPOUR: Right now, we've heard the Gospels. The Pallium is about to start. This marks the part of the mass, this is basically an ordinary Catholic mass except this is the important mass that confers the regalia of the papacy on Pope Benedict XVI, who, in fact, has obviously been pope since he was elected last Tuesday, but this is now the formal installation. As we've been talking before with John and Jim Bittermann, this is when they put the shawl with the five red crosses over his neck and hangs down his front and also they put the Ring of St. Peter, the papal ring on his finger.
KING: You know, Christiane, listening to that polytonous chanting and singing, so eerie, that is something that is done by shepherds all around the Mediterranean area. It is a kind of traditional Mediterranean choir that all sorts of things is sung in and the medium and the message were mixed there because what they were singing about was, of course, course Christ saying to St. Peter, feed my sheep. So there was a wonderful mix of both the medium and the message in that wonderful sort of -- those voices -- those haunting voices of the islands of the Mediterranean.
BITTERMANN: It might be worth noting, Christiane, that the Pallium, that is the stole that will soon be placed on Pope Benedict's shoulders, is a very special type of wool. These are actually -- this wool comes from two lambs that are raised by Trappist monks outside Rome that are brought to the Vatican on the Feast of St. Agnes, Agnes in Latin, of course, means "lamb." Blessed by the pope, so this wool actually will be wool blessed by John Paul II when it was still on those lambs, and on Holy Thursday they are actually shorn at a Benedictine convent by Benedictine nuns, here in Rome and they actually then, by hand, weave it into the Pallium not only for the pope but also new archbishops all over the world.
AMANPOUR: So this is an ever year kind of thing ...
BITTERMANN: Because every year there are new archbishops. AMANPOUR: But he's going to be using this one.
KING: That's right, this is an extra special one.
The speaker (ph) is the Cardinal Jorge Medina Estavez, the proto- deacon. It is a privilege of his to place to stole on the pope. He of course announced Joseph Ratzinger's election as Pope Benedict XVI.
JORGE CARDINAL MEDINA ESTAVEZ, PROTO-DEACON (through translator): May the God of Peace who resurrected from the dead, the great pastor of sheep, our Lord Jesus Christ give to you himself this Pallium taken from the confession of the Apostle Peter.
The Good Shepherd commanded Peter to tend his sheep and also to you today as a person in succession to the episcopacy of this church, which he built out of faith, together with the Apostle Paul and may the spirit of truth which proceeds from the Father give you abundant inspiration and discernment in your ministry and to confirm your brothers in the unity of faith.
STEPHEN CARDINAL KIM SOU-HWAN, FORMER ARCHBISHOP OF SEOUL (through translator): Let us pray. And God, who never fails those who call on you with a true and faithful heart hear the prayers of your church.
AMANPOUR: I want to go this moment down to Delia Gallagher, who is down in St. Peter's Square with the crowds. Delia, this obviously, this design of the Pallium dates back to more than 1,000 years, but you have noted some crucial differences in both this particular Pallium and the ring.
GALLAGHER: Yes, that's right, Christiane, in this particularly Pallium it's a different style, it's gone back to the old style, as you mentioned, from about 1,000 years ago, which kind of goes down on the side and has the five crosses in red, signifying the five wounds of Christ.
The ring, also, you will see, has gone back to the old papal seal. The seal, of course, used to be used for papal documents. There is still a separate seal, but this ring goes back to the official seal of the pope, which he can use for documents and on it has the sign of a fisherman casting his net out into the sea.
AMANPOUR: And tell us the symbolism of the five red crosses, in total, but the three that are visible around the front.
GALLAGHER: The five red crosses would be the symbol of the wounds of Christ when he was put on the cross. The three pins that you see going into those crosses represent the nails when Christ was crucified in his hands and in his feet. Three nails.
AMANPOUR: And here we're looking at a close-up image which, I don't know if you can see down on your big screens, but a close-up image of the ring that we've been talking about and that we spent a lot of time talking about when Pope John Paul II died, because one of the first things that happened, one of the first formal things that happened after he died was the breaking of the ring and the seal. Why is that so significant?
GALLAGHER: Well, the fisherman's ring, of course, has to be destroyed at the end of a papacy because it is the official sign for papal documents. So if the pope wants to put his stamp on a papal document, he can do it by this seal. Therefore, when the pope dies, of course, to avoid that anybody gets a hold of that ring and starts issuing documents in his name predated perhaps, they destroy the ring.
Of course, this was something that was tradition. We don't really worry about ...
AMANPOUR: They just put it on his finger.
AMANPOUR: You can see, probably, and hear ...
And the crowd where you are showing their appreciation at this moment.
GALLAGHER: Yes, yes, they are getting some moments in to be able to cheer along with the pope. Again, it is a crowd which we have seen in -- a very different crowd from when Pope John Paul II appeared because of course he was sort of infirm and suffering and you got the feeling from the crowd then that they were trying to encourage him along. This is a crowd which is curious. They are watching very carefully everything that is happening and listening very carefully, I think, to the pope's homily as well.
AMANPOUR: And he just held up the Book of Gospels, the formal Book of Gospels and blessed it and the crowd with it.
KING: You saw him, Christiane, actually do that twice, one in the Book of Gospels in Latin and again in Greek. Again, symbolizing universality. Also on the subject of universality, it is striking, the Pallium was put on his shoulders by a cardinal from Chile, the ring was put on his finger by a cardinal from Korea, and that of course is another indication of the universality of this 1.1 billion- strong Roman Catholic Church.
AMANPOUR: What follows now, John and Delia, is the Obedience. Is that correct?
KING: Yes, we are expecting now what will happen is the procession of different individuals representing different constituencies if you like, different groups within the church, which is traditional but will also include other groups. Priests, deacons, married people, religious men and women. And in fact, a couple of recently confirmed young people.
GALLAGHER: And we should say that the number of those people is 12, sort of representing the Catholicity, the universality of the church and the traditional 12 apostles. KING: In fact, the pope joked, actually, when his finger was measured for his ring, he was told in European terminology his size was a 24, and Benedict said, that's great, that's two times 12, indicating his affection for the number 12.
AMANPOUR: So guide us through, now, the 12 representatives that are coming up, and what is the point of this homage, is the best way to put it?
KING: Well, as Jim himself mentioned earlier, the pope is, among other things, a monarch and it's traditional for his courtiers to pledge fealty to him and that's the origin of this ritual. Typically it would be the princes of the church, the cardinals who would process up. And of course we are seeing some cardinals do that now. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, who is the now dean of the College of Cardinals. That was the role once held, of course, by Joseph Ratzinger himself. It was Sodano who asked those questions, whether or not he accepts and by what name he will be known.
And Cardinal Kim and Cardinal Medina Estevez, the man who just invested the pope with his ring and his Pallium, then we're seeing a bishop, an Italian bishop, who will be pledging fealty, and there we are.
AMANPOUR: Being helped up.
KING: Yes, on behalf of the bishops ...
AMANPOUR: That's interesting too, John, let me stop you. Because a lot of the bishops around the world, as you see this one, so respectful, removing his skullcap and talking to the pope. A lot of complaints from some bishops, particularly in the United States and others, is that under Pope John Paul II, and perhaps under this new pope, there wasn't enough power and authority decentralized, devolved to the bishoprics around the world. And that is going to be one of his first challenges, too, to deal with that.
KING: Quite right. The term for that, of course, is collegiality, the idea that the bishops together form a college with the Bishop of Rome. And this is of course priests on behalf of the Catholic priests of the world, pledging fealty and loyalty to the new pope. We will then be seeing a male and female member of religious communities and that is interesting because there was a sense under the pontificate of John Paul II that he was such an enthusiastic backer of the so-called new movements, Opus Dei, the Focal Armini (ph), the Neo Catacuminate (ph) and these groups. The religious orders sometimes felt a bit left out and I think it is striking that here -- and of course, there we see another priest ...
AMANPOUR: I think interesting, too, I don't know whether that priest comes from the third world, but certainly what is interesting is the growth of the church in the third would, Africa and Latin America, but simultaneously the dramatic lack of priests in many parts of America and Western Europe, and that too is going to be a challenge, how to get shepherds into the individual congregations around the world. BITTERMANN: In our village outside of Paris, Christiane, we have one priest for 24 parishes. So the one priest has to take care of all of the business of 24 parishes.
AMANPOUR: Which is incredibly difficult as churchgoing Catholics know. You want to have access to your priest, not just for one hour on a Sunday morning, if you are lucky.
BITTERMANN: We might note that the sister ...
AMANPOUR: The nun.
BITTERMANN: Who is now Mother Maria Sophia. She is, interestingly enough, a Benedictine nun, and of course, symbolically appropriate since she is now pledging her loyalty to Pope Benedict, the man who chose to take the name of the founder of the order.
AMANPOUR: And, of course, in housekeeping terms, it is a group of nuns that takes care of the pope's daily household requirements, whether it is the housekeeping, the keeping of his personal apartments.
KING: That's right. Those of us who follow John Paul II over the years will never, ever forget Sister Tobiana (ph), who was probably in the 1,001 pictures of the pope, off to the right. Here we see the recently married couple from Korea who are joining in this offering of good wishes ...
AMANPOUR: And a child, too.
BITTERMANN: And a child.
KING: And we see the Pope Benedict reaching out and blessing the child ...
AMANPOUR: Is that ...
KING: These would be two recently confirmed Catholics. Confirmation, of course, is the sacrament that follows baptism, it represents that adult's decision to take on the obligations of the faith. The woman we just saw is from the island of Sri Lanka and the young man we are now seeing is from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
AMANPOUR: Two interesting countries. It is this cardinal, now this pope, who silenced one of the senior prelates of Sri Lanka for what they believed ...
BITTERMANN: A priest named (INAUDIBLE), that's right, who had taken a number of stands, including a stand in the favor of the ordination of women, also in favor of what was known as religious pluralism, although it should be noted that his excommunication was retracted after roughly a year after some behind-the-scenes diplomacy and smoothing over the waters.
But certainly Asia will be one of the flashpoints of this new pontificate. There is a strong push there to see Christianity in dialogue with the other great religions of the world and the extent to which Pope Benedict is able to foster that dialogue will be fascinating to watch.
AMANPOUR: Just as we get ready for the homily, also to note the last supplicant there was Charles Bolico (ph) of the Democratic Republic of Congo, and that of course one of the fastest growing Catholic congregations in the world. And many had hoped there might be an African pope. Many from that continent most certainly had hoped there might be an African pope.
KING: So, now Pope Benedict is preparing to delivery his homily. So let's listen and watch.
POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translator): Your eminences, my dear brothers, bishops and priests, distinguished authorities and members of the diplomatic cause and dear brothers and sisters.
During these days of great intensity we have charted the litany of the saints on three different occasions. At the funeral of our Holy Father John Paul II, when the cardinals entered the conclave and then again today, when we sang it with the response to ilum adiabar (ph), sustain and assist the new successor of St. Peter.
On each occasion, in a particular way, I found great consolation in listening to this prayerful chant, how alone we all felt after the passing of John Paul II, the pope who for over 26 years had been our shepherd and guide in our journey through life. He crossed the threshold into the next life, entering unto the mystery of God. But he did not take this step alone. Those who believe are never alone, neither in life, nor in death.
At that moment, we could call upon the saints from every age, his friends, his brothers and sisters in the faith, knowing that they would form a living procession to accompany him into the next world, into the glory of God. We knew that his arrival is waited. Now we know that he is among his own and is truly in his own home.
And again, we were also consoled as we made our solemn entrance into the conclave to elect the one who the Lord had chosen. But how would we know his name? How could 115 bishops coming from every culture and country discover the one on whom the Lord desired to confer the mission of binding and loosing. Once again, we knew that we were not alone, we knew that we were surrounded, led and guided by the friends of God.
And now at this moment, I, a weak servant of God, I must assume this enormous task which really exceeds all human capacity. How can I do this? How will I be able to do it?
All of you, my dear friends, have just invoked the entire host of the saints, represented by some of the great names in the history of God's dealing with mankind. In this way, I, too, can say with renewed conviction that I am not alone. I do not have to carry alone.
We see it and we feel it. I do not have to carry alone, but in truth, I could not carry, never carry alone. All of the saints of God are there to protect me, to sustain me and to carry me. And your prayers, my dear friends.
Your patient indulgence, your love, your faith and your hope accompany me. Indeed, it is true the communion of saints consists not only of the great figures, men and women, who went before us and whose names we know. All of us belong to the communion of saints.
We have been baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We who draw our life from the gift of Christ's body and blood through which he transforms us and makes us like himself. Yes, the church is living. This is the wonderful experience of these days.
During those sad days of the pope's illness and death it became wonderfully evident to our eyes that the church is alive.
And that the church is young.
She holds within herself the future of the world and therefore shows each of us the way toward the future. The church is alive and we are seeing it, we are experiencing the joy that the risen Lord promised his followers. The church is alive, she is alive because Christ is alive, because he has truly risen.
In the suffering that we saw on the face of the Holy Father in those days of Easter we contemplated the mystery of the passion of Christ and together we touched his wounds, but throughout those days we have also been able, in a profound sense to touch the risen Christ. We have been able to experience the joy that he promised us after a brief period of darkness as the fruit of his resurrection.
The church is alive. With these words I greet you with great joy and gratitude all of you gathered here.
My venerable brother cardinals and bishops, my dear priests and deacons, church workers, catechists, I greet you, men and women, religious. Witnesses of the transfiguring presence of God.
I greet you, members of the laity, immersed in the great task of building up the Kingdom of God which spreads throughout the world into every expression and area of life. With great affection I also greet all those who have been reborn in the sacrament of baptism but are not yet in full communion with us.
And you, my brothers and sisters of the Jewish people to whom we are joined by a great spiritual heritage, one rooted in God's irrevocable promises.
And finally, like a wave gathering in force, my thoughts go out to all men and women of today, to believers and to non-believers alike.
Dear friends, at this moment there is no need for me to present a program of governance. I was able to give an indication of what I see as my tasks in my message on Wednesday the 20th of April and there will be other opportunities to do so. My real program of governance is not to do my own will, not to pursue my own ideas, but to listen, together with the whole Church, to the word and the will of the Lord, to be guided by Him, so that He himself will lead the Church at this hour of our history.
Instead of putting forward a program, I should simply like to comment on the two liturgical symbols which represent the inauguration of the Petrine ministry; both these symbols you saw, which reflect clearly what we heard proclaimed in today's readings.
The first symbol is the Pallium, which is woven in pure wool, which has been placed on my shoulders. This very ancient sign, which the Bishops of Rome have worn since the fourth century, may be considered an image of the yoke of Christ, which the bishop of this city, the servant of the servants of God, takes upon his shoulders.
God's yoke is the will of God, which we accept and this will is not an exterior weight that weighs down upon us, oppressing us and taking away our freedom. To know what God wants, to know where is the path of life.
This was Israel's joy, this was her great privilege. And it is also our joy, God's will does not alienate us, it purifies us, even if this can be painful, and so it leads us to ourselves. In this way, we serve not only him, but the salvation of the whole world, of all history.
In reality, the symbolism of the Pallium is even more specific. The lamb's wool is meant to represent the lost or sick or weak sheep which the shepherd places on his shoulders and carries to the waters of life. The parable of the lost sheep, which the shepherd seeks in the desert, for the fathers of the church, was an image of the mystery of Christ and the church.
Humanity, that is everyone of us, we are the lost sheep, lost in the desert who no longer knows the way. The Son of God will not tolerate or let this happen; he cannot abandon humanity in so wretched a condition. He leaps to his feet and abandons the glory of heaven, in order to go in search of the sheep and pursue it, even as far as the cross. He takes it upon his shoulders, he carries our humanity, he carries us all. He, the good shepherd who lays down his life for the sheep.
The Pallium says to us above all, first and foremost that we are all carried, all of us, by Christ. But at the same time it invites us to carry one another. Thus, the Pallium becomes a symbol of the shepherd's mission, which is spoken about in the second reading and the Gospel.
The holy zeal of Christ must be the inspiration of the pastor. For him it is not a matter of indifference that so many people are living in the desert, and there are so many kinds of desert. There is the desert of poverty, the desert of hunger and thirst, the desert of abandonment, of loneliness, of destroyed love.
There is the desert of God's darkness, the emptiness of souls who are no longer aware of their dignity or the goal of human life. The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast in us.
And therefore the earth's treasures no longer serve to build God's garden in which all of us may live, but they have been made to serve the powers of exploitation and destruction. The Church as a whole and all her pastors, like Christ, must set out to lead people out of the desert, towards the place of life, towards friendship with the Son of God, towards the one who gives us life, and life abundantly.
The symbol of the lamb also has a deeper meaning. In the ancient Near East, it was customary for kings to style themselves shepherds of their people. This was an image of their power, this was a cynical image. To them their subjects were like sheep, which the shepherd could dispose of as he wished.
While the shepherd of all humanity, the living God, himself became a lamb, he stood on the side of the lambs, on the side of those who are downtrodden and killed. It is precisely in this way that he reveals himself to be the true shepherd. "I am the Good Shepherd. I lay down my life for the sheep", says Jesus of himself.
It is not power, but love that redeems us!
This is God's sign: he himself is love.
How often we wish that God would make or show himself stronger on earth, that he would strike decisively, to defeat evil and create a better world. All the ideologies of power justify themselves exactly in this way, they justify the destruction of whatever could stand in the way of progress and the liberation of humanity.
We suffer on account of God's patience. And nevertheless, we all have need of his patience. God, who became a lamb, tells us that the world is saved by the crucified one and not by those who crucified him.
The world is redeemed by the patience of God and is destroyed by the impatience of man. One of the most fundamental characteristics of a shepherd must be to love the people entrusted to him, even as he loves Christ whom he serves.
"Feed my sheep," says Christ to Peter, and now, at this moment, he says to me as well. Feeding means loving, and loving also means being ready to suffer. Loving means giving to the sheep what is the true good, the nourishment of God's truth, of the word of God's word, and the nourishment of his presence, which he gives us in the Blessed Sacrament.
My dear friends, at this moment I can only say, pray for me, that I may learn to love the Lord more and more. Pray for me, so that I may learn to love always more and more his flock, which is you, the holy Church, each one of you singularly and all of you together.
Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves. Let us pray for one another that the Lord will carry us and that we will learn to carry one another.
The second symbol which was presented and used in today's liturgy to express the inauguration of the Petrine ministry. This is the presentation of the Fisherman's Ring. Peter's call to be a shepherd, which we heard today in the Gospel, comes after the account of a miraculous catch of fish.
After a night in which the disciples had let down their nets without success, then the disciples see, on the shore, the risen Lord on the shore and he commands them to go back to fishing once more, let down their nets and look, the nets become so full that they can't pull them in.
There were 153 large fish and "although there were so many, the net was not torn" says the Gospel.
This account, coming at the end of Jesus' earthly pathway with his disciples, corresponds to an account at the beginning, which, there too, the disciples had caught nothing the entire night and there too, Jesus had invited Simon to go out into the deep once more.
And Simon, who was not yet called Peter, gave the wonderful reply, "Master, at your word I will let down the nets." And then came the conferral of his mission. "Do not be afraid, from henceforth you will a fisher of men."
Today, too, the church and the successors of the apostles are told to put out into the deep sea of history and to let down the nets, so as to win men and women over to the Gospel, to God, and to Christ and to true life.
The fathers made a very significant commentary on this singular task. This is what they say, for a fish, created for water, it is fatal to be taken out of the sea, to be removed from its vital element to serve as human food.
But in the mission of a fisher of men, the reverse is true. We are men, we live in alienation, in the salt waters of suffering and death; in a sea of darkness without light. The net of the Gospels pulls us out of the waters of death and brings us into the splendor of light of God, into true life.
And it is really true, as we, it is the missions of the fishers of men, in following Christ, we have to bring men and women out of the salt sea with so many forms of alienation and onto the dry land of life, into the light of God.
It is really true, the purpose, pastors and Christians, the purpose of our lives is to reveal God to men, and only where God is seen does life truly begin. And only when we meet the living God in Christ do we know what life is.
We are not some casual product, meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the fruit, the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed. Each of us is loved and each of us is necessary. There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the gospel, by this encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know him and to speak of others, to others of our friendship with him. The task of the shepherd, the task of the fisher of men, often it can seem wearisome, but it is beautiful and it is wonderful because it is truly service to joy, to the joy of God, which longs to break into the world.
And I want to add something else here. Both the image of the shepherd and that of the fisherman issue an explicit call to unity. I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must lead them too and they will heed my voice so there should be one flock and one shepherd, says Jesus. These are his words at the end of his discourse on the good shepherd and the account of the 153 large fish ends, as we have said, with a joyful statement. Although there were so many, the net was not torn.
Alas beloved Lord, we must confess with sorrow and acknowledge that it has been torn, but we do not have to be sad. Let us rejoice because of your promise which does not disappoint and let us do all we can to pursue the path towards the unity you have promised. Let us remember it in our prayer to the Lord as we plead with him, yes, Lord. Remember your promise. Grant that we may be one flock and one shepherd. Do not allow your sheft (ph) to be torn. Help us to be servants of unity.
In this moment, my mind, my memory goes back to the day, 22nd October 1978, when Pope John Paul II began his ministry here in St. Peter's Square. Once again and continually, his words echo in my ears. Do not be afraid. Open wide the doors for Christ.
The pope was addressing the mighty, the powerful of this world because they feared that Christ might take away something of their power if they were to let him in, if they were to allow the faith to be free. Yes, he certainly would have taken away something from them, the dominion of corruption, the manipulation of law and the freedom to do as they pleased.
But he would not have taken away anything that pertains to human freedom or to his dignity or to the building of a just society. The pope was also speaking to everyone but particularly to the young. Now I have to ask myself, are we not perhaps all afraid in some way? If we let Christ enter fully into our lives, if we open ourselves totally to him, are we not afraid that he might take away something from us. Are we not perhaps afraid to give up something, renounce something, great significance, something unique, something that makes life so beautiful.
Do we not then risk up ending diminished and deprived of our freedom and once again, the pope said no. If we let Christ into our lives, we lose nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing of what makes life free, beautiful and great. No, only in this friendship are the doors of life opened wide, only in this friendship do we really see revealed the great potential of the human condition. It is only in this friendship that we experience what is beautiful and what is free and so today, I would like with great strength and with great conviction and on the basis of long personal experience of life, to say to you, dear young people, do not be afraid of Christ. He takes nothing away and he gives you everything.
When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundred fold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ and you will find true life, amen.
AMANPOUR: So a long homily. It is of course unusual in normal Catholic masses for a homily to be interrupted by prayer, but this is not a normal homily. This is a papal, by applause rather, this is a papal liturgy. It's the first big papal homily. I counted about 28 applauses before this final applause.
In brief, the main themes that Pope Benedict XVI chose to focus on let's work backwards. At the end he's appealing to the Catholic faithful to open themselves up to the faith and by, in that way, strength the church. He used the signature words of John Paul II to close his inaugural homily, do not be afraid. And of course that was intended spiritually as much as physically, when John Paul II uttered those words over and over again during his papacy.
He talked about the splits and the divisions in the Catholic church. Of course Pope Benedict XVI, as defender of the doctrine of the church has many times talked about Catholicism as being the one true faith and all others secondary or even perhaps in his words, once deficient. So he's calling for perhaps in the future, some rapprochement as he called it, the one flock under one shepherd.
He talked about the desert in peoples' spiritual lives, the desert in modern day existences, talking about the external deserts in our world are growing because the internal deserts in us have become so vast, another appeal to spirituality and to hew to the very clear doctrine of the Catholic Church. Now he is reciting the creed which is the I believe, again a central prayer of the Catholic mass.
As we listen to the Sistine Chapel choir singing the creed and hearing the congregation as well, we're also watching now on our air different international broadcasters showing this in very different countries around the world. Here we have TVE of Spain and as has been done throughout this incredible and unprecedented lengthy coverage of Vatican affairs, the moment Pope John Paul II became sick, then he died, the mourning, the conclave, the election and now the installation of the new pope, really the whole world has taken on the role of Vatican proselytizer if we can say that.
Everybody around the world in many of the countries where they have got around the clock live coverage and from what we can tell from our affiliates and broadcasters are showing this service to the people in their countries. We've talked a little bit about the tone Pope Benedict XVI struck in his homily. We've spoken about some of the points, some of the doctrinal and spiritual points he emphasized as we see there, the (INAUDIBLE) of peace, illuminated, the Holy Spirit symbolically in the same glass window.
One of his clear themes also and which got a huge amount of applause with his repetition of the phrase and the assertion that the church is alive. The church is young, he said, but he kept saying the church is alive and that is not an accident, John, because we have been speaking also of passing of the world in which there is a problem with keeping the life of the church vibrant.
ALLEN: This is both I think a propositional sentence, but also the expression of a hope and that is that certainly the Catholic Church in the various parts of the world face a severe crisis and I think Pope Benedict's message here was despite all that, despite the dark night of the soul, that some people are living through, the church lives. And of course, let's remember that he is no longer the doctrinal czar. He now is the pope. He understands that people are convinced that the Christian message, not fundamentally by the fine points of doctrinal debates, by the sense that Christianity gives life and hope and that very much is attempt here this morning, to express that in a convincing way.
AMANPOUR: And Jim, he also did spend time reaching out so to speak. He repeated the theme that he struck in his first mass as pope which was right after the election in which he professed to continue the role of Pope John Paul II and that is reaching out not just to other Christian and Catholic elements, but also to other faiths. He talked specifically here about the Jewish people.
BITTERMANN: But under one shepherd. He said to the other Christians, under one shepherd. That's always been the problem that Protestants have with the Catholic Church is that they don't believe that the pope is their shepherd. The, one of the things about -- we spoke about that theme about the church is alive. After this long period that we had of watching John Paul II deteriorate and until his death, there was just kind of lethargy that set in and just to have a pope that can be understood by the crowds. I think part of the reason for the applause is that.
ALLEN: Obviously, of course, Pope Benedict said Christiane, that this is not a program of governance. He was not laying out a detailed blueprint for wherever he wants to take the church. I think there were some interesting indications in the homily. As Jim said, this was -- there was this reference to Christians who are not yet in full communion with us, both an indication of outreach for the Christians, but also a desire to in some sense bring them into the Catholic fold, which remember that there are 750 million Christians in the world who are not Roman Catholic. Healing that divide is certainly important. Then there's a reference to Jews and his use of that phrase irrevocable, very important.
AMANPOUR: We'll talk about that, but here is an important moment. We call this the offeratory prayers, the prayers of the faithful. In some countries they call them the bidding (ph) prayers, but these are from different countries and the first one chosen is a German, Magnus Foster (ph) to read the first offeratory prayer.
So as we wait now for the offeratory procession with another procession of international representatives there, let's just talk a little bit again about who read the offeratory readings. German, obviously to honor the pope's home country, but also Germany is split between a very significant Catholic and Protestant population, France we saw there. Again there is also a crisis in the French Catholic church, Arabic, very important. There is a minority, but nonetheless an important Arab Christian population, a Catholic population and some, I've read over the last few days, hoping that Pope Benedict XVI will continue the ministry if you like of what Pope John Paul II and most particularly the Palestinians who remember how importantly Pope John Paul II took their aspirations for their right to an independent sovereign state.
We have Sister Wen (ph) of China, again important, a big problem for Catholics, the official Catholic church in China and indeed the Chinese have already, not only congratulated the new pope, but again raised the issue that the Vatican would have to cut ties with Taiwan if the Vatican wants to restore ties with mainland China. Portugal of course, probably representing not just Portugal, but Brazil as well, one of the highest, one of the largest populations and growing populations of Catholics in the world.
ALLEN: In a number of instances there Christiane, a direct connection between the language used and the message. In French for instance, you're saying the problems in the Catholic church, the French prayer was that the pontiff serve the church and be a courageous witness of the gospel. In the case of Arabic, the leaders of nations made a pact not with force, nor with self interest, so the message of democracy. In Chinese, for those suffering, for those lost in life's struggling, of course the Catholics in China are struggling against governments that by their presence, a direct connection there between the languages used and the message.
AMANPOUR: And just briefly to go through the nationalities of these people bringing up the offeratory gifts, from Hungary, Croatia, Kenya, Burkina Faso, Italy, China and Peru.
ALLEN: Just briefly to return to a point we were making before about Pope Benedict's homily, and of course papal language is very carefully crafted and so you need to pay careful attention to the words that are used. When he was talking about his desire to continue the revolution that John Paul II affected in terms of the relationship between the Catholic Church and Judaism, Pope Benedict used that phrase the irrevocable promises of God.
Of course an older Christian theory was that someone the revelation given to Christ superseded the covenant with the Jews and John Paul II said clearly, that was not the case. Very interesting to hear Pope Benedict repeating that language, the irrevocable promises of God. Certainly that will be heard with great interest and I would imagine great appreciation by Jewish leaders around the world.
AMANPOUR: We're entering now what's known as the holiest part of the Catholic mass, which is the Eucharistic liturgy and this will be fairly lengthy. It is about 10 to 15 minutes of prayers that lead up to the consecration, what Catholics call the transubstantiation of bread and wine into the body and blood. As we said, many times before, Catholics believe that this is not just a symbolic act in a mass, but this actually does signify the transformation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
ALLEN: Might be mentioned, Christiane, that in addition to being a sort of supreme moment of reverence in the Catholic mass, for the Vatican this is also an enormous logistical exercise because they have to distribute communion to the some 500 or so thousand people that are gathered in the square. As you remember during the funeral mass, they had some 300 priests assisting in that process. We would expect a similar number today.
AMANPOUR: Exactly and let us go down to the square where we have of also Alessio Vinci, our bureau chief and Delia Gallagher, also a Vatican reporter and Vatican analyst for CNN at this time. Alessio and Delia, you were there in the crowd listening to the homily from the ground floor so to speak and the peoples' reactions.
VINCI: Well, Christiane, I think there was a very composed crowd. Of course most of them listening to the words of Benedict XVI, the new pope. Of course he delivered his homily in Italian. There is a vast international crowd here, people here in the crowd do not get simultaneous translation of the words of the pope.
We would assume that the vast majority of the people here do actually understand Italian, although we have mentioned that this is a vastly international crowd and very much is a legacy of what John Paul II did in bring the people back to the squares around the world. And indeed, here in St. Peter's Square, we can see flags from all around the world, but primarily this is a crowd that is still trying to learn more about this pope. They're very curious about his kind of papacy was quite interesting.
As you know that during the homily, the pope said at this moment, there is no need for me to present a program of governance. My real program is not to pursue it on my own (INAUDIBLE) but to listen together with the whole church. So clearly trying to reach out to the crowd and to tell them, I am here to listen.
Delia, what do you think about this very specific moment when he basically, there was one of the many moments where there was a brief applause and not a loud cheer, but just a brief applause. Suddenly the crowd was very much listening to what he was saying.
GALLAGHER: Yes, well, in the very beginning of his homily, he said how am I going to be able to do this great task in front of me? And then he says I am not alone and he got quite a large cheer and it was interesting that some of the people that I've just been talking to right around us here said exactly that thing. They said we have come today to encourage him, to let him know he's not alone. And when we asked them, why are you here? Is it for this pope in particular? Are you a particularly practicing Catholic? They say, we are Catholics, but we have come just to show him our support. Whatever our judgment about him later will be doesn't matter, but today it's an important day just to show support for the head of the Catholic Church.
VINCI: And of course, some of the people in the crowd telling us that obvious this is his day, his day of being inaugurated as pope and that of course they are willing to wait and see what will be his first moves, with some first steps. They know about his conservative stance. They know quite a bit about what has been especially written about Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict in the past few weeks. But they're also saying perhaps he will change. Perhaps he will rise to the post of the leader of all Catholics and not just a portion of them, the more traditional ones. And so I think that the crowd here really very much waiting to and give him some time and especially expecting perhaps that some of his more traditional stance will soften somewhat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the praise and glory of his name, for our good and the good of all his holy church. Oh God our father, in celebrating this memorial of the immense love of your Son, we pray that the entire human family may taste the fruits of redemption through the missionary work of the church, through Christ our Lord, amen.
AMANPOUR: As we continue with the Eucharistic liturgy, we want to gain keep exploring parts of the homily because that of course, that is the man. That is the minister. That is the pastor that will give at least some indication of his priorities and his direction as he now heads fully and formally into the first weeks of his papacy. We've talked about what he said during the homily or at least parts of it, the parts that were interrupted by applause and that I personally counted about 28 applauses before the final applause. And he did John, not just talk about doctrine, but also about social justice.
ALLEN: That's right. I mean I and Jim and all the other reporters who have covered this story spent the last week trying to talk to cardinals, reconstructing the logic of Joseph Ratzinger's election. And it's quite clear that to the extent there were reservations inside the college, to a great extent, they came from southern cardinals concerned about issues of justice and peace. And so as you heard the pope this morning talk about the need to promote justice, the need to fight against corruption and the abuse of power, those will certainly be notes that those cardinals were waiting to hear.
AMANPOUR: Just want to explain to our viewers, it does sound sometimes as if we're fighting the narration on the host television. We don't intend to do that. We can't turn it down apparently and we'll try not to step all over them.
ALLEN: That of course is the cannon that goes off every day at noon in Rome. It goes back to the middle ages and maybe a bit jarring if you don't know to expect it, but there it is.
BITTERMANN: There's a shot -- I just saw that some of the flowers laid out in front of the altar there, normally those are marble steps but they've been covering with grass and flowers for the occasion.
ALLEN: The cannon actually is to remind Romans that noon is the time they're supposed to be praying the Angelus or in the Easter season the Regina Caeli. We were expecting ourselves the pope would be leading the (INAUDIBLE) obviously the mass is running a bit long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been lifted up unto the Lord. Let us give thanks to the Lord our God. It is meet and right. It is truly meet and right at all times and in all places to render thanks onto thee our Lord, holy father almighty and eternal God and to praise and worship you in your sense (ph) which you have given for the support of the church, which you prefigured with your marvelous designs in the ancient alliance (ph) and in the fullness of time you raised it up on the foundation of your apostles. Amongst them, you have desired to choose Peter, who was the first to recognize the divinity of your Christ and in him, you made the firm rock on which was built your church.
You made him to be the guide and the guardian of all your flock so that his brothers may be confirmed for all the ages. Your son our Lord Jesus Christ entrusted to him the keys of the kingdom so that he could establish on earth. Oh father, what you had established in heaven and today we celebrate with reverence the task, special task entrusted to the head of the apostles, united with the choirs of the angels singing the hymn of your glory, holy, holy, holy God, Lord (INAUDIBLE)
Heaven and earth are full of your glory, hosanna in the highest. Therefore most merciful father, we beseech thee and ask thee through Jesus Christ thy son and our Lord to accept these gifts and to bless these offerings, this holy and immaculate sacrifice which we offer to thee before, for your holy Catholic church that you may give it peace and protect it, that it may attain to unity, that you may govern it on all the earth with me your unworthy Son, whom you have placed at the head of your church and with all those who look after the Catholic faith transmitted from the apostles, remember oh Lord your faithful servants. Remember all those who are present whose faith you know and devotion.
For them we offer and also they offer to you the sacrifice of grace and raise their prayer to thee. Oh God, eternal and living and true God, to obtain the precious gifts of redemption, safety of life and salvation, in communion with all of the church, we remember and venerate above all the glorious and ever virgin Mary, mother of God and our Lord Jesus Christ, with St. Joseph, her spouse and with all the apostles and martyrs, Peter and Paul, Andrew, James, John, Thomas, James, Philips, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Thaddeus, Linus (ph), Cetus (ph), Clement, Sixtus (ph), Cornelius and Cyprian, Lawrence, (INAUDIBLE), John and Paul, (INAUDIBLE) and Damien and all the saints and by their merits and prayers, you may give us always help and protection, accept with grace oh Lord the offering that we present, offer to you.
We your ministers and all your family, grant us peace in our time and save us from eternal damnation and number us along with your elect. Sanctify oh God this offering by the power of your blessing and be gracious and accept this (INAUDIBLE) as a spiritual and perfect sacrifice that it may become for us the body and blood of your both dearly beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, whom on the night that he was betrayed, he took bread in his hands and raising his eyes to heaven, he said, to you almighty God, giving thanks with prayer and blessing, he broke the bread, gave it to his disciples and said, take you all this and eat it. This is my body, which is offered up for you.
In like manner, after the supper, he took this glorious cup in his holy and venerable hands and giving thanks to you with prayer and blessing, he gave to his disciples and saying, take this all of you and drink from it. This is the cup of my blood of the new and eternal testament, which is shed for you and for all in remission of sins. Do this in memory of me.
A mystery of faith. Savior of the world, save us, who has redeemed us by your cross and the sacrifice oh father, we your servants and your holy people celebrate the memorial of your blessed passion, your resurrection from the dead and your glorious ascension into heaven for Christ your son and our Lord and we offer your divine majesty amongst the gift that he has given us, his pure holy and immaculate victim, the holy bread, (INAUDIBLE) of life and the cup of eternal salvation.
May you turn your gaze upon our offering as you desire to accept the gifts of Abel, the just (ph) and the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in the faith and in pure and holy ablation of (INAUDIBLE) your supreme high priest. We beseech thee oh almighty God. Make, cause this offering to be brought to the altar in heaven by the hands of your holy angel before your divine majesty, so that all of us who participate at this altar communicating in the holy mystery of the body and blood of your son, may be given every grace and blessing from heaven. Remember of Lord, those of your faithful who preceded us with the sign of faith and are sleeping in peace.
(INAUDIBLE) to them oh Lord and to all those who rest in Christ, blessed light and peace. And also for us sinners, your ministers, the faithful and trusting in your divine wisdom, grant oh Lord that we may have part in your community, of all your holy saints and martyrs, John, Stephen, Mathias, Barnabas, Ignatius, Alexander, (INAUDIBLE) Peter, Felicity, Perpetua, Agatha, (INAUDIBLE), Agnes, Cecilia, Anasuscia (ph) and all the saints.
Admit us to enjoy in their blessed place, not by our merits, but by the riches of your (INAUDIBLE) through Christ our Lord. You oh God, who creates and sanctifies everything and causes us to live and blesses and gives the world all good things, I whom, with whom and in whom, to you oh God the father almighty in the unity of the holy spirit be all honor and glory unto the ages of ages amen.
Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Deliver us oh Lord from every evil, grant us peace in our time so that with the assistance of your mercy, we may live always free from sin and free from all anxiety in the expectation of the glorious hope of the coming of our Lord and God and savior Jesus Christ, amen. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever amen.
Lord Jesus Christ, who sent your apostles, my peace I leave up. My peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your church which and grant it peace, to live in peace, you who reign onto ever and ever. Amen. The peace of the Lord be always with you and also with you. In the spirit of Christ who rose from the dead, offer each other the sign of peace.
AMANPOUR: The our father has been sung and the universal sign of peace now is being offered on the altar amidst the bishops, archbishops, priests and perhaps among some in the crowd, although I don't really see it there, looking at our wide shot of the crowd. Priests are going into the crowd to symbolically offer the sign of peace and you can see prelates from different doctrines doing that right now. It's a important symbolic, if you like, part of the mass, which again reinforces the tradition that has become Pope John Paul II's tradition and now Pope Benedict XVI's hope to continue this ecumenicist (ph) this reach out.
I think that we need to quickly run down a list of challenges for not just the pope, but for the Catholic church itself. There are many, many issues that are going to be at the forefront of the initial months and the first years of this pope's rule. The issue of women and their role in the Catholic Church, the issue of the Catholic Church's doctrine over what goes on if I might say in the bedroom, individual sexuality and morality, the issue of artificial contraception and the issue which is particularly important to American Catholics right now, of how will this Vatican allow bishops to deal with the problem of wayward priests others who have been involved in this child abuse scandal.
And it might be worth saying that at the beginning, the pope, Benedict XVI as Cardinal Ratzinger, seemed to dismiss the problem, saying that it was only a tiny minority, saying it was a media manipulation against the Catholic Church and then had to sort of rephrase as the numbers became too important there to dismiss. What John, do you think is the pope going to agree to in terms of censuring priests that have any of these problems.
ALLEN: Well, I think Christiane, interesting what happened there and you're right. Cardinal Ratzinger for the initial stage of this discussion was somewhat dismissive. But I think (INAUDIBLE) because what happened is, (INAUDIBLE) put in charge of the crisis. He's probably one of the few church men in the world who's actually read all of the case files of every priest ever accused of sexual -- credibly accused in the United States and elsewhere and took a much stronger leadership role, so much so that Cardinal Francis George of Chicago said the two days before the conclave, he had a conversation with then Cardinal Ratzinger saying that the American norms, the heart of which is the one strike policy.
That is one act of sex abuse, you're removed from ministry for life needed to remain intact. Wanted to ask if Cardinal Ratzinger had any questions. Cardinal Ratzinger said he understood. At the moment when Cardinal Ratzinger has been elected Pope Benedict XVI, Cardinal George went up to him, pledged loyalty. Then Pope Benedict XVI said to him, I remember our conversation and I will take care of it.
AMANPOUR: It's important and I think American Catholics will be encouraged by that. BITTERMANN: Also goes along Christiane with this whole idea and whole thought process of Benedict that the church needs to be purified and needs to get rid of doubters and perhaps not fervent Catholics and that includes the priesthood. If there are priests who violate the laws, I could see very well where he'd be one to perhaps...
AMANPOUR: As you can see, communion is being distributed and we've heard on the loud speakers the instructions to the congregation that there would be hundreds of priests there distributing communion for those several hundred thousand people who have crammed into St. Peter's Square for this mass.
ALLEN: If I can just pick up on a point Jim just made. You know obviously there's going to be great continuity between the papacy of John Paul II and Benedict XVI. He was after all the architect of much of John Paul's papacy, but one interesting difference I think is that Benedict XVI is a much more hands on administrator than John Paul II ever way. His great passion was for travel and dialogue and so forth. I think there's a sense among many of the cardinals who elected Benedict XVI, that he's going to be much more attentive to the internal nuts and bolts of church administration, the sex abuse scandal being one. But there are of course a whole range of other issues that he undoubtedly will...
AMANPOUR: Well, let's pick up on that. He very clearly said in his homily that I am not going to deliver a governance mission today or governance statement. But obviously that is what people are going to be looking for, how will he govern, not just in doctrinal affairs, but in trying to reenergize the church in those areas that it is fading a little bit and as we keep pointing out, in parts of the northern hemisphere, Europe, North America, etcetera. How does -- his challenge isn't it to generate a grassroots resurgence and he has spoken very admiringly of some of the other Christian -- I don't want to see sects, but some of the other Christian well sects, frankly, denominations, some sects, and also of Islam, basically pointing out that is their quote, fundamentalism that has caused such an energetic faithful in those religions, in those denominations.
ALLEN: Yes, I think we all remember of course that speech, the homily, that then Cardinal Ratzinger gave the morning of the conclave in which he talked about threats facing the church and he ticked off Marxism, secularism, liberalism, exaggerated individualism, relativism. That wasn't a joke Christiane. That certainly would summarize much of what he feels has gone wrong in the western world and I think you can expect some energetic pontificate trying to do battle with those things, because he believes one of the reasons that Islam has the energy we're talking about is precisely because it is rock solid on its core convictions. It has not watered. It has not assimilated and that provides it with a kind of insulation if you like against the threats of the broader culture that he wants Catholicism to have.
AMANPOUR: But then how Jim, do you think he goes about it? Some have speculated that it cannot be a top down enforcement operation, that it has to be a revitalization of the grass roots. BITTERMANN: Well, you can't save souls in an empty church, Christiane and that's one of the problems I think that he's going to have to tackle. How do you attract people to the church at the same time you're saying, we don't want people to come to the church who are less than fervent Catholics. It seems to me that it's going to be a very difficult mission and now there will be people out there who will say, wait a second. This is the core belief that I have as a Catholic and I'm attracted to this. I mean we know those people and John I met them. But there are also going to be some people who again, I think in terms of American Catholics particularly who are going to be driven away by that kind of (INAUDIBLE)
ALLEN: But you know, Jim, I think the interesting thing about Pope Benedict is he's very much a realist about these things. I mean he doesn't have the aspiration of packing churches worldwide. He has actually talked many times that Christianity in, at least in western culture today, may need to be a creative minority. He uses that gospel image of the mustard seed, a small presence that kind of gives new life. So I think that in balance, if you have to choose between fidelity to your identity and kind of mass popularity, it's very clear to this pope which to choose.
AMANPOUR: That's right, a purer church at the expense of size is something that he has enunciated quite frequently.
ALLEN: I don't think his program is going to be to divide the church or to drive people away. But I think he is willing to accept that as the potential price of making sure in the first place, the church is clear about what it is.
AMANPOUR: And as a cardinal and as doctrinal enforcer, he also stepped very firmly into politics, world politics. He talked for instance about Turkey entering Europe in the European Union and spoke quite vociferously against that, alarming some people, saying that Europe is European and to bring in such a heavily Muslim country would fundamentally alter the nature of Europe and Christianity. I mean, that's quite a provocative thing to say.
ALLEN: It is. Now we should be clear what he meant by that. I think it is in some quarters been read as a kind of anti-Islamic statement and I don't think that's right. I think he actually has a great admiration for many aspects of Islam. But at the same time, he is fervently committed to the idea that the roots, both historical and culture and moral if you like of Europe are Christian. And anything that seems to compromise that or water it down, he is going to struggle mightily against. So it's the same impulse that has him of course talking about what's going on in Spain and we discussed this earlier.
It's the same impulse that led he and the rest of the Vatican to be so adamant about the need for the European Union to mention God in its constitution. All of which of course, at the present moment, seem to be losing issues.
AMANPOUR: And of course what is going on in Spain there is that parliament is discussing a bill that would allow same sex marriages and would permit adoption by homosexual couples. Of course this pope continues the age old tradition of Europe pope sitting on the throne of St. Peter when church membership is increasingly growing outside of Europe. Down in Vatican Square as we've been talking throughout this morning are Delia Gallagher and CNN's Alessio Vinci. And there are a lot of people down there. Have you talked to anybody down there who may not be from Europe and have had their own views of who they might have preferred to have seen, a third world pope, a Latin American pope?
VINCI: One of the first interviews that I did this morning was actually with a gentleman from Mexico City who actually lives in Paris, but he is Mexican. And he basically told me is here because he wanted to support this pope. I think that the vast majority of people who are in this square today, they are here because they're obviously attracted by curiosity first of all. This is the first public mass, big event, accessible to all. And the pilgrims from around could be here.
One curious perhaps note here is that we still see more flags from Poland, obviously the nationality of the late John Paul II than flags from Germany. We only see a few here, at least in this area where we are. But if you take a 360 degrees round look, I think Polish flags outnumber the ones from Germany and you can sum up, as one of the challenges facing Pope Benedict is that what a taxi driver told me a few days ago. He said, you know, John Paul II brought the people back to the square. Now it is time to bring people back to the church.
Now to have -- be here -- to just add something. What are your thought about this? I mean how will this pope, traditional pope, be able to convince, especially younger generation who perhaps were looking for something more of a jazzed up church, rather than something going back to its traditional ways of actually, the ceremony especially.
GALLAGHER: I think in the first instance, you have to start from where Pope Benedict is thinking, how he thinks of himself and his role and I think for him, his primary role is as a kind of guardian of the faith, traditional, being handed down from above, as it were, not starting with the people and what do they want, but him as a guardian of 2,000 years of Catholic tradition, not just him, but the entire church, the majesty and the teachings, council of the church.
So that's his first concern I think is to maintain that. And then he thinks that the people will respond to that. So in other words, there isn't a sort of starting point of let's go out to the people. For him the starting point I think has to be let us start from Jesus Christ and that's what you hear in his homily and that is what his message I think is going to be in this papacy. He believes that the power of that strong conviction, message, will bring the people back to the church.
VINCI: One of the comments I heard moments after his election was, this is the end of cafeteria Catholicism.
GALLAGHER: Well, I think if you mean by that that people can pick and choose what they want, I think they'll always be able to do that. Of course everyone's free. But I think that what Pope Benedict's line will be is to say, well, let's at least present exactly what we believe because this is his basis also of dialogue. He says if you want to be engaged in dialogue, you have to know what your truth is. I have to know what my truth is and we can respect each other.
So dialogue is not a means of trying to reach an agreement necessarily, but of mutual respect and you cannot respect somebody unless they have a clear idea of what they believe in and I think that's where he sees his primary role, to provide that sort of clear idea to the rest of the world. Now he has to of course deliver that message is an effective way, not just as the head of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith. So that's what we'll need to see by his -- I think by working through the bishops that are here, this idea of collegiality, that Christiane and John and Jim were talking about. With this organization here at the Vatican, he may be able to have that sort of trickle down effect.
VINCI: And you remember him, I believe it was just from the balcony the day he was elected, calling on the bishops, pray with me. I'm here to listen. I'm here to work with you. This is just definitely a pope whose going to try to reach out away from Rome and he's trying to explain to the bishops and the priests as well, that the church isn't the masses in the morning, must be a very important day, a (INAUDIBLE) moment, especially if not the most important moment of their life, of their day, to able to convince people to come to mass.
GALLAGHER: Yes, absolutely. I think that his point here will be to invite collaborators, because he knows that he himself maybe does not have the same charisma of John Paul II. So this might be a very interesting papacy in which he surrounds himself by very strong figures from all over the world that will be able to operate as heads of their churches and their individual countries.
And if so, we might see sort of decentralized papacy just by virtue of the personality of this pope being different from John Paul II. So not so focused just on him, but focused on the bishops and the rest of the church.
VINCI: That said, reflecting especially on the crowds and on the, you know, hundreds of people that we were able to speak with, in the past few weeks, ever since the death of John Paul II, how many we've met who are telling us -- people who waited in line for 15 hours, people who have been here during the day he was elected, people who are here today, some of them -- many of them actually I should say not necessarily people who would next Sunday go to church.
GALLAGHER: Yes, absolutely. With John Paul II, we had a kind of phenomenon, I think, of at the end of his papacy, kind of getting support from people, just by virtue of the fact that he was will and suffering. And I think he got even more crowd support and enthusiasm for that reason.
Of course, he had a very successful pontificate in terms of his popularity. But let's remember, I don't think in the beginning of 1978 that was immediate. So that is something which takes time to build. And of course, his charism, his personality came across in a certain way. But I think that the people here will also warm up. And we'll be seeing them not necessarily going back to church. That's a whole sort of cultural and religious phenomenon which has to be addressed and can't just be addressed by one man.
But I think certainly we will see renewed interest. We already have seen it. Look at the conversation that's been happening in the past month about Catholicism. And in a funny way, this choice of pope encourages that conversation, because were he somebody unknown with not same sort of reputation of this hard-line conservative, we wouldn't even be having those conversations.
So just in that way, I think, he's already sort of made an interesting mark.
VINCI: How much do you expect he will soften that sort of conservative line that has been very much now almost the only way to describe him in the last few weeks? How much will he just you think understand that if -- because he has become pope, and because he has to represent all the Catholics around the world, including those who are saying we need to do more to fight AIDS in Africa, we need to do more for gay couples, do you think that he will be able to listen to them and somewhat soften? Or do you think that these are Catholic values, traditional Catholic values which simply will not be changed?
And not because Ratzinger has been made pope. Because the Catholic church is entrenched in those values. And they don't necessarily want to change them.
GALLAGHER: Right. I think that's absolutely right. I think it's wrong to present them as his views. I mean, there are Catholic views. And we have to remember that at least 77 worldwide cardinals voted and thought that this man represented in a good way some of those values.
So I think probably now we will see a slight moving away from the identification of Pope Benedict with this doctrinal authority. And we will see that kind of opening up, but not a softening necessarily on doctrine. I don't think anybody expects that from the man who used to be the head of doctrine and faith.
But certainly, an opening up. An additional, I would say, bringing in and encouraging of the people we've already heard it today talking about unity, talking about youth. Those are topics which he didn't have to cover before.
So I think we'll see a sort of added part to Pope Benedict XVI.
VINCI: And you can tell here in the crowd, right next to where we are, there are actually people calling on the priest to actually receive communion. Obviously, not everybody in this large crowd will be able to receive communion. There are an estimated, what, 40,000 people perhaps in the square alone. And several tens of thousands, if not many more, throughout this area here. So you can see how eager the people are to receive communion. GALLAGHER: It's always quite amazing at these gatherings. You know, we saw people on their knees here on the cobblestones at the time of the consecration. So you have a sort of mixture of the sacred and the profane.
Many people are here. They're not Catholics. And they're just sort of wandering around eating sandwiches. And then you have people that are participating in a very spiritual way at this mass.
VINCI: And Christiane, as the service is nearing its end, we do understand that in some way, the pope will perhaps take a small tour of the square. It unclear whether he will do that in that very now familiar pope mobile. The open deck white car that John Paul II has brought all around the world, where they will do that with a different car or whether he's going to do it on foot.
We are not clear yet. We actually asked members of the Vatican security here around us, but they themselves have not been told what will happen.
What we do know, however, is that the police is actually bracing for an outflux, if you want, of people leaving St. Peters Square and going back towards whatever they're coming from. Christiane?
AMANPOUR: Well, we'll certainly be back to you then. And if not before because if he does do that, the pope, it'll probably go right past you. And you'll have the bird's eye view. So that will be interesting to see.
And you know, we've been talking a lot about conservative versus moderate or conservative versus progressive. But I think lest we leave the erroneous impression that it's all about an appeal for moderation in the Catholic church, it's in fact not.
Many, many, many parts of the Catholic church are very traditional, very progressive. And some of the -- sorry very traditional, very conservative. And some of the fastest growing parts of the Catholic world, there's a lot of adherence to the strict truth with the big T.
ALLEN: Yes, that's quite right. I mean, the region of the world where Catholicism is growing the most rapidly is, of course, Africa. When -- in the 20th century, from three million to 120 million Catholics. Remarkable unprecedented growth.
And interestingly, on those issues of sexual morality that tend to be of greatest interest to the western mind, there actually is an overwhelmingly conservative consensus in Africa Catholicism which if anything, will push the church in a more conservative direction.
I'm also -- but that's not just Africa. It's also in the first world, when...
AMANPOUR: Also in the United States. I mean, conservative Catholics came out in force for President Bush. ALLEN: And yes. And actually, a telling episode. When Cardinal Edward Egan went back to the North American College after the conclave, that's where the American seminarians live, and they tend to be drawn, these seminarians, from some of the more conservative circles in American Catholic opinion, when he walked in, there was an enormous outburst of applause, because he was one of the electors who had given the church, Joseph Ratzinger, as pope.
So let's not underestimate the strength of that current opinion.
AMANPOUR: And shown somewhat by the numbers in the square. 350,000 according to the Vatican estimates of the crowds in the square and down the (INAUDIBLE).
And as we listen to the pope, and the mass, we'll just listen to (INAUDIBLE).
POPE BENEDICT XVI: (through translator) ...your table for the effectiveness of this mystery confirm we beseech thee in unity and love your holy church with me, your servant, to whom you have entrusted the Petrine ministry. So that's together, the flock and the pastor, we may proceed in the safety on the way of salvation through Christ our Lord. Amen.
The Lord be with you.
CHORUS: And with your spirit.
POPE BENEDICT XVI: Oh, God of the universe, turn your eyes towards us. Look down from heaven and see and visit this, your vineyard.
Exact the shoot that your right hand has planted. And may almighty God bless you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
AMANPOUR: There we can see the open air pope mobile, the one that is not enclosed by bullet proof glass. At least, it doesn't look like from here, and is drawing up to the steps upon which the altar has been placed. And clearly, it looks very much like our speculation may have been correct that the pope plans in some way to reach out to the people who have gathered there.
ALLEN: Michael was saying, Christiane, that the pope mobile is a bit like Air Force One. Whatever vehicle the pope is in is the pope mobile for today.
And so, here we are.
AMANPOUR: Well, complete with miter, not staff. He just handed his staff up. It looks like he's getting in. And there's a big applause from the crowd down below.
Alessio and Delia, it looks like it may come your way.
VINCI: It does look like. Although we're actually witnessing something strange here. The front end of the square, of course, has realized that the pope is actually taking this tour in the pope mobile.
But towards the back, people are already trying to leave. We are about two-thirds way back, towards the back end of the square. And so, we do not actually from here have a visual -- direct visual of the car. We do obviously see two large giant television screens that have been set up here in St. Peters Square for all to see. But at least from this end of the square, I don't think people are very much drawn by this picture.
But I can tell you that there is obviously tens of thousands of people who are much closer to the front of the Basilica, if you want. And that is where the car is now driving.
I do not believe the car will make it all the way here, although they have created a corridor for it to drive by. But right now, this corridor is completely packed with people leaving, actually.
AMANPOUR: Well, the pope mobile is going down the central aisle that's been -- that is right there, and that's been planted with grass and flowers on each side for this ceremony. His first wave was to the gathered dignitaries, because that is how the car made a turn around the altar. And it was the gathered dignitaries who were the first to see him close up, so to speak, waving, clapping.
And now he is heading down the center of the square. And you can hear the bell. And you can certainly hear people from where we are, at least, clapping.
VINCI: It is driving, of course, extremely slowly. So it will take a while to reach all the way to the back end of the square.
It is literally driving -- or coming up towards us, directly towards us. But it is again unclear whether he will make it all the way through the square and then towards the area where obviously the vast majority of people are. Because I can tell you that the square itself can hold at this time probably between maybe 30, 40,000 people at the very maximum.
But the tens of thousands, the hundreds of thousands are actually down behind it in the Via la Concercione Via Res (ph) surrounding the Vatican. And that is, of course, where their car will not reach.
Pope John Paul II used to take a drive all the way down to the beginning of the Via la Concercione (ph), back and forth several times. Again, I do not believe this will happen today. I think today, the car will remain within the confinements of St. Peters Square. Delia?
AMANPOUR: According to the Vatican, we can see now from where we are. We can see the car turning left after the central aisle. And it's going to go along the aisles that have been created by the Vatican for these whole groups of people there. It's coming around to probably where you are, heading towards the colonnades, the famous Bernini columns.
350,000 people out around Rome and in the Vatican Square, according to the Vatican press office. Some 50,000 people watching on screens in other parts of this city, away from the square.
BITTERMANN: You know, I'd just like to ask John Allen, since he wrote the book literally on Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, do you think he relishes this part of the role, the -- being out in the crowds?
ALLEN: Well, I think when he is deliberately making an attempt to look as if he's relishing it. And certainly, it may well be genuine.
This is a shy, bookish professor essentially. One cardinal told me that the transformation in this role is (INAUDIBLE) purification for him.
You know, another point I would make, Jim, is you know, I would love to know what is going through Pope Benedict XVI's mind right now. Because in addition to the joy of installation mass, this is his first trip in a jeep around St. Peters Square as pope. And it was in just such a jeep in just a moment such as this, when John Paul II himself was shot on May 13, 1991. And one wonders if he's conscious, not just of the joy and the affection of those surrounding him, but also the new potential dangers to which he's exposed.
I mean, he is now one of the world's most public figures.
AMANPOUR: Well, security, of course, is unprecedented, as it was during the funeral. There's air space that is being closed down. There are police all over the place.
I mean, I think as a human being, that when you're confronted for the first time by people applauding like this for you, that has to be something very impressive, very overwhelming. You must feel an emotion, gratitude.
And even if perhaps you were shy and retiring and preferred to act from behind the scenes before, now that you're thrust into this position of power and let's say adulation from the people there, it must have a very profound effect on you.
And I think one of the things that was interesting that you've reported and others, having talked to cardinals and those who are in the conclave, where he (INAUDIBLE) new, part of the reason they elected him was the way he so, they say, brilliantly conducted himself and the church and steered the church in the days obviously leading up to Pope John Paul's illness, his final illness. But in that crucial moment between his death and the election of the new pope, that they considered him to have done it with a great sense of aplomb and with great skill. ALLEN: Very much so. And not even so much his moments on the public stage, conducting the funeral mass and so on, but also the all important meetings, those 13 meetings that the cardinals call the general congregations.
When by all accounts, then Cardinal Ratzinger did a spectacular job of making sure everyone's voice was heard, of -- he recognized every cardinal who raised his hand to speak, a sign of course of how well he knows that College of Cardinals and how well he knows the affairs of the church.
When he would speak with cardinals informally, he always did so in their own language, because he is, after all, a terrifically talented linguist. And in that sense, a man positioned to lead a universal church.
And there are actually a couple of critical moments when during the discussions, the private discussions among the cardinals, they would get bogged down on points of canon law. That's the body of law that governs the Catholic church. And Ratzinger would be the one to step in and say, OK, we know what the law says. But what's a pastoral response here look like?
And for those cardinals who are concerned that perhaps he would be an authoritarian pope, a pope who didn't listen, that sense of him having a strong pastoral sensitivity, a strong pastoral streak of what should real life teach us, that was extraordinarily reassuring.
AMANPOUR: But he continues that route through the aisles that have been marked out in St. Peters Square. You can see, of course, the obvious. We're going to report the obvious in this moment. People with their cameras, flags waving. We've seen the blue checkered flag of Bavaria. We've seen German flags. We've seen flags from Poland, as Alessio mentioned. And indeed, signs from Wadewice itself. Pope John Paul II's homeland and the town of his birth.
Alessio, down there, can now see the pope coming into view. Pick it up, Alessio.
VINCI: Well, Christiane, I can tell you that I think that those who have been rewarded with this drive through by the pope are the hardcore pilgrims and the faithful who have been here early this morning, who managed to occupy the closer positions within St. Peters Square closer to the Basilica, that is, because those who are left behind in the back of the square, and certainly those who are stuck in Via la Concercione (ph), have no idea that this is happening.
This is a show that is only been -- not only is this a selective few are able to enjoy, because even from the position where I am, and I'm actually standing on a platform above the crowd, I'm having a hard time figuring out where the car is. And so, I can tell you that for the vast majority of the people in this area right now, all they can see is the same pictures -- the television pictures -- that you're seeing up there. Because of course, the Vatican has set up giant screens throughout this area here in order to allow those who are unable to -- were unable to reach all the way down to St. Peters Square, who actually see the pope driving and blessing the faithful all around the world.
But if you want, one could say, that in order for you to be in the square so close to the Basilica, you must have waited here many, many hours earlier today. And I think those obviously the ones who are being rewarded now with this drive through.
I'm going to bring here Delia, who's been watching this show with us. There is a mixture, of course, of excitement. And of course, some people already gearing up to go home.
GALLAGHER: Well, yes, I think as you say, some people just don't realize that it's happening because when you're here amongst the crowd, it's very difficult to make out exactly what's happening up at the front.
Just watching this, though, I'm reminded of when John Paul II used to go through the square. And the security guards would often stop and pick up the little babies from the people along the side and give to each kiss.
I think that Pope Benedict is going a bit too fast for that. But surely, it's reminiscent of the times when in his better days, John Paul II was able to come through and greet the people.
VINCI: Yes, Christiane, I think that the one, you know, could certainly state with no uncertainty here that this is not a clone -- this is not a carbon copy of John Paul II.
I was preparing a story a few days ago about the inauguration of John Paul II. And I was seeing him walking in the crowd, moving his hands, doing a lot of contact, if he wants, with the crowd. And as you can see now, actually the pope is going back inside the Vatican.
He is now no longer here in the square.
AMANPOUR: That's right. This was a nice end to that long mass there. He allowed those who were at least close enough in the square to see. And they certainly reacted with a great deal of enthusiasm, waving.
And of course, the whole atmosphere is complimented by the bells of St. Peter ringing. So there is a feeling of festivity now, a feeling of rebirth or a feeling of a new beginning.
And I think also many question marks about how this is going to turn out, what it's going to look like, what will the result be, and the numbers and the figures and spirituality be at the end of this pope's reign. And of course, the Vatican watches. This is going to be the beginning of a very interesting and, of course, important phase in the life of the Catholic church.
ALLEN: Yes, Christiane, what we're in now, of course, is the papal honeymoon. This is an opportunity for the pope to present himself to the world. And obviously, he's trying to strike all the right notes, talking about dialogue and inclusion and ecumenical outreach and inner faith outreach. And no, this beaming, smiling, waving man that we saw from the crowds. And all of that is genuine. But none of that should cause us to forget.
But there are some tough choices looming for this pope in the near future. What to do about this problem secularism in Europe? What to do about the crisis of sexual abuse in North America and elsewhere? How to battle this dictatorship of relativism that he described in such strong, almost stark terms, etcetera, etcetera?
And of course, his governance has not yet begun. But in the coming days and months, and we would expect him not to wait too long. Cautious is a man of 78. His time may be limited.
AMANPOUR: And don't you think one of the first indicators will be who he nominates to succeed himself as the head of the congregation on doctrine?
BITTERMANN: Absolutely. And I mean, one of the rumored choices is a man who was said to be the campaign manager for Cardinal Ratzinger. And that was -- that's Cardinal Schoenborn from Vienna, very much along the same traditional lines as Benedict XVI.
So that would be an interesting choice, if he chose it. I was just thinking, as you were talking, you know, we should probably do is come back about six months from now and just see where things are. Because we're in the middle of Rome or decreasing tourism season here. There's a lot of people in Rome, have been brought to Rome, not so much by the church, but more by the fact that they're just out for a pleasant Roman holiday.
So you know, take it to the winter months and see if there's still so many people turning out for papal masses and that sort of thing, and how well the pope is doing.
I'm sure that's one of the things that the Vatican needs -- like John here and others will be watching over the next few months.
AMANPOUR: I think as we wrap up, and really head into the farewell so CNN and the world, given all the broadcasters who've taken on this incredible, dramatic religious and televisual event over the last month, the death of Pope John Paul II, the funeral, the outpouring of grief and love for him, the sort of secrecy and the intricacy of the conclave, the rapid election of Pope Benedict XVI, the big questions over what he will do, just a quick final observation. Because in one minute, we're going to say good-bye with some views of what we've just seen.
ALLEN: Well, I think for anyone who believes that Joseph Ratzinger being 78 was elected as a transitional pope, you've got another thing coming, because there's not a transitional bone in Joseph Ratzinger's body. I think this will be a dramatic, fascinating pontificate to watch unfold.
AMANPOUR: And as CNN's correspondent? BITTERMANN: I think, you know, it's just so refreshing to see a pope active and comprehensible. And one of the problems with Pope John Paul II towards the end of his reign was that (INAUDIBLE). And I think for many Catholics, that in itself will prove that the church is alive.
AMANPOUR: Jim Bittermann, John Allen, and of course for Delia Gallagher and Alessio Vinci, we would like to say thank you for joining CNN for these incredibly dramatic three weeks for an unprecedented look at one of the main religions in the world.
And we now leave you with a montage of some of the pictures, some of the moments that we've collected, beginning on April 2nd, when the pope died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we're witnessing is the general decline and eventual death of one of the greatest pontiffs this church has ever seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pope John Paul is an extraordinary man. And you know, remembering him, we remember that he's taught us something very profound, that the light is always at its brightest when the darkness of the world seem very, very deep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoever is chosen pope will have large shoes to fill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred fifteen cardinals will begin the first conclave of the third millennium.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it. We have a pope. That's it.
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