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American Morning
Hostage Mystery; Buried Treasure
Aired April 27, 2005 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's a rainy commute here in New York City. Good morning, everybody. It's 7:30 here. Good to have you along with us today. Good morning to you as well.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A twisted story out of Oklahoma, something new, too, in the Rudolph Dial case now. He's a fugitive from a Texas prison who was only captured recently -- recaptured, in fact. There's new accusations being directed at the FBI. Did the agency hide evidence about the woman who vanished with him? We'll look at that in a moment here; also a book written about this. And we'll talk to the author and try to get to the bottom of it.
O'BRIEN: He's all connected in all of this anyway.
Also this morning, we're talking about that buried treasure in Massachusetts. Have you heard about this story? A couple of guys digging in the backyard literally strike it rich. Now, of course, the question is: Who hid all of this money and coins so long ago?
HEMMER: Yes. They were putting landscaping in, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I think they were yanking out a tree and ended up, oops, what's that?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Who gets to keep the money?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I believe they do.
HEMMER: Right now.
O'BRIEN: The workers, yes.
COSTELLO: Why can't that happen to me?
HEMMER: It may. Start digging. Here's a shovel.
O'BRIEN: You live in Manhattan now. You don't have back yard. That's your first problem.
COSTELLO: Good morning, everyone.
"Now in the News."
Michael Jackson's ex-wife and the mother of his two children is set to take the stand today. Prosecutors want Debbie Rowe to testify about a videotaped interview she gave two years ago defending Jackson. Rowe says it was highly-scripted and that she did the interview in hopes of gaining greater access to her children.
Police in central Florida are on the lookout for a 12-year-old girl. An Amber Alert is out this morning for Margarita Aguilar Lopez. The girl was last seen Monday night at a motel about 30 miles south of Tampa. The suspect apparently has ties to the girl's family.
Pope Benedict XVI is holding his first general audience. The pope spoke to crowds earlier this morning. Some 15,000 people gathered at St. Peter's Square for the event. The new pope pledged to work for peace and harmony.
Some football players could soon face three times as many drug tests. The National Football League is expected to announce the change in policy this morning before the House Government Reform Committee. Congress is trying to decide if it should become involved in how professional sports handles drug testing. Is it a good idea? A former NFL lineman who admits to using steroids will join us in the next hour.
And the world's largest passenger plane taking to the skies -- look at that thing. It looks like it's barely getting off the ground. This is the Airbus A-380 on its maiden voyage, taking off from southern France about three hours ago. The massive double-deck, 550- seat aircraft has taken 10 years and $13 billion to get off the ground. Experts say if everything goes well today, it will still be at least another year before the Airbus starts regular service. And get this, some of those jets have Jacuzzis on them, mini casinos, shopping malls. I don't know about the shopping malls, but it has...
O'BRIEN: The Jacuzzi, that's a good start.
COSTELLO: Isn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: It's great.
HEMMER: Double the flyer miles on that bad boy, by the way.
COSTELLO: I hope so.
HEMMER: That thing is huge.
O'BRIEN: And another bonus!
HEMMER: Keep going! Thank you, Carol.
I want to get to the story now we've been watching now for some time. How did the FBI find out about this decade-old kidnapping case? And what did they know? And when did they know it? In a moment, we'll talk to the author of a book about the disappearances. But first, a bit of background on this bizarre case. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RANDOLPH DIAL, FUGITIVE WHO WAS CAPTURED: I regret to say that I was the hostage-taker, and I will probably live to regret it.
HEMMER (voice over): In 1994, convicted killer Randolph Dial escaped from an Oklahoma prison with Bobbi Parker, a deputy warden's wife, as his hostage.
Eleven years later, after a tip from the TV show "America's Most Wanted," Dial and Parker were found at a chicken farm in East Texas, where for the last five years they had been hiding in plain sight. Parker told police she stayed with Dial out of fear, something Dial seemed to confirm in a jailhouse interview after his capture.
DIAL: She was living under the impression that if she ever tried to get away, I would get away, and I would make her regret it, particularly towards her family.
HEMMER: When police arrested Dial earlier this month, they found a copy of the book "At Large," written about Dial's escape. Dial says he called the author, Charles Sasser, in 2001, to praise the book, and even put Parker on the phone to prove that she was still with him.
Sasser says he told the FBI about the conversation, but Parker's husband, Randy, says he was never notified, and claims the FBI has -- quote -- "blown off" his questions as to why.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And Charles Sasser is the author. He's with us live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, this morning.
Good morning to you, Charles. Thanks for your time today.
CHARLES SASSER, AUTHOR, "AT LARGE": Well, good morning to you, too.
HEMMER: Let's go back to this phone call in 2001. What did he say to you first on the phone?
SASSER: Well, almost the beginning of it, he said he had read my book 12 times, my most ardent fan.
HEMMER: Twelve times?
SASSER: That's what he said. You know, I like fans like that. But he read my book 12 times, he said. And he said, while I wasn't always complimentary to him, that it was fair and it was objective, and that he liked the book, and said the reason he called was that if the fib would give him 30 days alone with me to tell the rest of the story, he would turn himself in.
HEMMER: So then he puts Bobbi on the phone, right? And what did she say?
SASSER: Well, I asked him -- I began by asking him, 'Is Bobbi still alive?' Because this is seven years after they had left, and everyone, or at least everyone I knew, had assumed she was dead. And he said "Sure. Do you want to talk to her?" I said, 'Of course I want to talk to her.'
So, I heard him in the background and he called Bobbi up to the phone. And I asked her three questions to verify that that she really was Bobbi, questions that were very minor but that were not in my book, were not in the news media, that only she would know. She answered the questions.
I then asked her if she was OK. And she said, "I'm fine and I'm happy." And then I think she asked me at that time, "Have you seen my girls?" Meaning her daughters, who were 8 and 10 when she left. And I said I hadn't. And then I encouraged her to call the kids. And then there was a pause, and she said something to the effect that, "I don't know if it's better for them to think I'm dead or for me to call them." And that's...
HEMMER: You were convinced it was Bobbi on the other line, based on her answers, right?
SASSER: Yes.
HEMMER: OK. Now, you go to the FBI. What did the agency say after this information was given to them?
SASSER: Well, I know they checked my phone calls, traced my phone calls. I made a report to the FBI, had written down everything I could think of about the conversation that might help. And I know shortly thereafter, the FBI talked to them on and off over several years, as a matter of fact, about some of the clues in there, trying to figure out the clues that might have led to his capture.
HEMMER: And then, Charles, did you go to her husband? Did you call him and tell him about the conversation you had with Bobbi?
SASSER: I went to no one except to the FBI. Until "America's Most Wanted" came out, I had not made any kind of contact with anybody except the FBI, because they were conducting an investigation.
HEMMER: Her husband is a little ticked off at you a little bit about that, don't you think? I mean, why not give him a phone call to let him know that his wife is alive?
SASSER: Well, that's not my place to make anybody's phone call. I don't, you know, involve myself in an investigation. I didn't notify the news. I notified nobody except the authorities. It wasn't my place. I'm not going to call.
HEMMER: Do you think she was a willing accomplice? Do you think she...
SASSER: Do I think so?
HEMMER: ... could not get away from that captivity in East Texas? SASSER: Well, you know, I don't wish anyone any ill harm. But to me, it's almost unbelievable that a person could stay captured 11 years in plain sight, working away from the place and all of the other opportunities to escape. To me, that's hard to believe.
HEMMER: Then what about the possibility she was staying there out of fear, either for her life or the life of her family?
SASSER: Out of fear. Well, if he was threatening her family, let's look at it. She said she was staying with him out of fear of mafia. Well, if you look at some of the other mafia people who have gone underground, they've lived in, you know, two-story condos or beach houses or houses in the Caribbean. They were living on a chicken farm shoveling chicken manure. That doesn't sound like it's someone who has a lot of contacts, to me.
HEMMER: Do you any idea how she's doing today, Charles?
SASSER: Well, I don't know. I don't know. She just always seemed like a sad little woman to me. And I feel sorry for her. But I feel -- we must not forget that the real victims in this case are the two little girls, who were 8 and 10 years old when she left. And those are the people I really feel sorry for.
HEMMER: Thank you, Charles. The author of "At Large" with us this morning in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Let's take a turn and talk about the weather this morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Well, it is the stuff that dreams are made of, finding buried treasure. For two friends in Massachusetts that dream came true.
Dan Lothian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Twenty-three-year- old Tim Corbasi (ph) hit pay dirt while digging up tree in his back yard three weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, like, I hit this crate. I was just, like, beside myself. I just started jumping around.
LOTHIAN: Buried treasure from the 1890s to the 1920s, stuffed inside nine rusted cans, an underground vault of sorts in Methuen, Massachusetts, north of Boston on the New Hampshire border. Corbasi's (ph) friend, Barry Villcliff, who was helping with the landscaping project, was stunned.
BARRY VILLCLIFF, FRIEND: I look at the can, and I look inside. I can see it's full of dollar bills. Finding rare notes like the bison $10 bills and gold certificates and silver certificates.
LOTHIAN: But was it all real?
VILLCLIFF: Even at that time, we didn't know if they were worth the paper they were printed on or if it's, you know, a huge find.
LOTHIAN: So, they took the loot to a nearby coin shop owner.
DOMENIC MANGAND, VILLAGE COIN SHOP: You're looking at the notes and you're saying, no, this can't be. This can't be. Not all this at once.
LOTHIAN (on camera): Only then did the two friends learn the true value of their discovery. More than $100,000. The theory is that immigrants, more than a century ago, who didn't trust local banks, buried, then forgot the treasures.
(voice over): The friends don't want the public to know where they live, fearful treasure hunters will descend on the property. For now, they plan to split the profits.
Corbasi (ph), who says he still doesn't feel rich...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet. As soon as I sell them I will.
LOTHIAN: ... plans to buy a new car.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: And we're going to chat with the two guys who found that buried treasure coming up a little bit later this morning. They're not rich yet.
HEMMER: They've got a story.
O'BRIEN: And he's got a list of things he wants to buy, that's for sure.
HEMMER: Get a break here. In a moment, the biggest name in online shopping teams up now with the country's most famous department store. Andy tells us what it means for shoppers in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Plus, Brad and Angelina caught frolicking on the beach. But did they get caught on purpose? "90-Second Pop" is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back. And back to Jack and the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
President Bush's two-month odyssey aimed at convincing the country to restructure Social Security is coming to an end apparently with no results. Tuesday's Senate Finance Committee meeting on the president's plan made it clear that privatization isn't going to happen, at least not now. Democrats continue to be opposed. Some Republicans also are faltering in their support.
So the question is this: Since the government is doing nothing, what would you do about Social Security?
George in Virginia writes: "What we don't need is a new government program managing our money in private accounts. Let them manage the Social Security money we already gave them. We already have private accounts. They're called IRAs and 401(k)s."
Kevin in New Jersey writes: "Make the companies that have outsourced jobs pay steep taxes solely for Social Security. These are the workers who are missing from the replenishing pool."
D.C. in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina: "The fixes are obvious. One, do away with the $90,000 cap. Two, raise the early retirement age to 64. And, three, raise the retirement age as life expectancy rises."
A.J. in Florida: "Exactly what our president is doing. His is the best solution there is to offer on this huge problem."
And Bobby in Florida writes: "I would suggest the problem is not Social Security, but spending. If Social Security funds were not to be touched for any reason other than paying out Social Security benefits, the system would fix itself."
Bobby, that's the way it used to be, but they changed it back a few years ago to where now they can dip into the Social Security money, put it right into the general fund and spend it on whatever, anything they want besides Social Security.
HEMMER: A pretty good riddle.
O'BRIEN: But that second e-mail asking about, you know, sort of making a connection between the outsourcing of jobs and the problems with Social Security. Has that been proven? Is that true that there's such a big movement in outsourcing, minding our business man?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: No, it has not been proven. I mean, it's an interesting thing to speculate about.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I've heard it say.
SERWER: But I don't think you can conclusively say.
CAFFERTY: I need a larger staff in order to prove the validity of the 500 e-mails I get every day.
SERWER: Yes, we can do that.
O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry, I had a moment of interest.
HEMMER: You know, there a moment.
CAFFERTY: I don't have any lawyers downstairs who are working on the...
SERWER: The network does have some lawyers, though.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but -- oh, sorry for raising what I thought was an interesting point.
HEMMER: Yes, but I think your point very well taken. There was a great piece in the "Post" yesterday, the "Washington Post." It talked about the political climate in 1935 when this thing came into being, and the challenges FDR faced not only from the Republicans, but also from his own party, too. You're starting to see shades of that same argument down in Washington now. So, thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the market.
SERWER: OK.
O'BRIEN: And let's talk about Amazon.com.
SERWER: Yes. You know this has been a tremendous growth story. It's starting to hit the wall a little bit. I mean, you get so big, obviously your growth is going to slow down. This happens time and time again.
Yesterday on Wall Street there was a bit of a sell-off. The Dow was down 91 points. Some concerns in terms of consumer confidence yesterday, even as new housing starts gained.
And one stock we're going to be watching this morning, in fact, is Amazon.com. They reported after the bell yesterday, Soledad. Profits down 30 percent. Sales continue to grow. Expenses, though, are climbing. And that stock is down 5 percent in pre-market trading. The stock is down from 54 to 32 over the past year.
One thing they have just announced, though, is a new storefront. And this is the thing that people are really questioning in terms of their strategy. Macys.com, you'll be linked from Amazon to Macy's. These are deals that they have, Amazon has with other companies as well, such as Target, Toys R Us, Nordstrom. That's a great thing, because it brings more people into Amazon. But obviously, they're making less money when they're directing people to other sites.
CAFFERTY: I'll tell you something else they could do. I ordered a Patsy Cline CD about three months ago. It says on the Web when you order it, it usually ships in three days. Then you get a note after you order it, well, it may be a month. Then it may be two months. I never got the Patsy Cline CD .
I ordered Hank Snow's autobiography, same thing, usually ships in three or four days. It's a book I want to read.
SERWER: Footprints in the snow.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Well, now they say it may be there in May. You know, we're not sure.
One of the things they might do is if they say it ships in three days, then ship the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thing in three days, or else put on there it may ship in three days or in two months. We don't really know. Just a thought.
SERWER: Truth in marketing might be a nice idea?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Improving customer service on some fronts.
SERWER: Yes.
SERWER: We have an angry customer here, Seattle.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: We're going to get you resolution by the end of this show, Jack.
SERWER: I think we actually might here.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Well, it is the "American Idol" story Fox doesn't want anybody to see. Is one of the judges breaking all the rules? "90- Second Pop" is up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: This is my new favorite song. It's like a head-banging song. Who is it? Who sings it?
COSTELLO: Gwen Stefani.
O'BRIEN: Oh, sorry. I have four children. I don't listen to music anymore unless it's like for preschoolers.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Rappie, rappie (ph).
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome. It's time for the Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop." Let me introduce you to our pop panelists this morning. B.J. Sigesmund from "Us Weekly." Carol Costello is pinch hitting for us this morning.
Good morning.
And Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com. We have so much to talk about. Let's get to it.
We're going to start with "Us Weekly," because these pictures made a lot of money.
B.J. SIGESMUND, "US WEEKLY": Amazing, aren't they?
O'BRIEN: Well, I don't know if they're amazing. Let's take a look at them first. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt finally in the same shot, and look at little Maddox, who is so adorable, also in the same shot. But this is like the big romantic? It doesn't look that romantic.
SIGESMUND: I think these pictures are awesome. And we can only show two of them on CNN this morning. The magazine, which is out this week, has 12 full pages of them. And they tell a beautiful story. Brad and Angelina walking along the beach...
COSTELLO: Oh!
SIGESMUND: Hold on, Carol. Walking along the beach with Maddox building sand castles. Angelina is holding a pail, bringing more water to Brad and Maddox. And, you know, if these two are involved, it definitely brings more level to the certainty that they are romantically involved.
O'BRIEN: Before I let the panel take exception to some of that, I want to point out what you can see right there, right there, that's from the movie, "Mr. and Mrs. Smith," right?
SIGESMUND: Yes, that looks like a still from the movie.
O'BRIEN: I mean, because they're hugging and kissing. But, like, I sort of thought salacious pictures, hugging and kissing. You don't see that.
SIGESMUND: But, you know, that's sort of the point, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: They're in so in love they don't kiss anymore?
SIGESMUND: No, but actually..
BOROWITZ: They just build things out of sand now.
SIGESMUND: Well, any couple...
BOROWITZ: That's the hot thing that couples do.
SIGESMUND: Any couple that comes in the public eye in a controversial way, you don't want the first picture of them together in a big kiss.
O'BRIEN: Staged.
SIGESMUND: This is a way of breaking the story softly if they are romantically involved. BOROWITZ: Are you, like, going to choreograph their first fight for us? That would be really great if they just have like a fight.
SIGESMUND: OK, Carol, bring it on.
COSTELLO: You mean they knew that photographers were there, and they were doing this just as an entree.
BOROWITZ: Right.
SIGESMUND: Well, there has been speculation that they did know that a photographer was there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I mean, they're on an empty beach in Kenya, for god's sake.
COSTELLO: And they're clothed! They're not even in bathing suits.
BOROWITZ: And they had a crew working on that castle the night before, too.
O'BRIEN: And the truth is, anytime you're with your 3-year-old, it's so not romantic anyway. This really could be true reality. All right.
SIGESMUND: Thank you Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome, B.J. You know I'm here for you.
We're talking about Paula Abdul again.
BOROWITZ: Why not?
O'BRIEN: There is -- because, you know, she's had a tough time. ABC News has got this special edition of "Primetime Live."
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: They're going to have a big expose. They haven't exactly said what they're going to be talking about.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: So, what do we know?
BOROWITZ: Well, it's all going to be scandal time at "American Idol." And I guess they're not saying what's in there. I guess what's being alleged is that they're going to talk about potential inappropriate contact or activity between Paula, who seems like such a beacon of stability to me, and one of the contestants. But Paula, you know, in the past...
O'BRIEN: Wait. So, she's hooked up with a contestant?
BOROWITZ: Well, that's the alleged -- allegedly. There have always been rumors about her and costars. I mean, back in the '90s remember her and MC Scat Cat. There was that whole thing. So, I don't know. I mean, I just don't know what to believe. I don't really know.
SIGESMUND: And it's interesting, because Martin Singer, Paula Abdul's lawyer, is on the aggressive, trying to prevent ABC "Primetime Live" from doing this expose, which is scheduled for the sweeps.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Which everybody knows, it generally means, you know, if you've got your lawyers, big guns out, it kind of means there might be something there, right?
BOROWITZ: It's those lawsuits flying back between, like, ABC and Fox. So, you wonder, like, who is the winner. I think Court TV. I think Court TV will be the winner.
O'BRIEN: When they run the whole thing.
Some people have called this the other royal wedding. Elton John.
COSTELLO: Elton John.
O'BRIEN: He's going to get wed.
COSTELLO: Oh, it's a beautiful story, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A love story of 12 years.
COSTELLO: David Furnish and Elton John have been...
O'BRIEN: Stop pretending to cry.
COSTELLO: I'm teary-eyed. But Elton John and David Furnish have been together for 12 years. Elton John says that's like 120 years in gay years. That's a good thing. Everybody is wondering where the wedding is going to take place, because it has to be something hugely elaborate, since, of course, it's Elton John.
O'BRIEN: Well, all of the other parties are really, really elaborate. You've got wonder what the wedding is going to be like.
BOROWITZ: And there are these beautiful photographs of them on the beach decorating a sand castle. And you've got to check that out.
SIGESMUND: Well, you know, Elton John is not the first gay celebrity to get married. We've seen a few lately, but he's definitely the first gay celebrity to be married to a woman back in 1984 and then divorced four years later and now be married to a guy. And it's going to be legal, because they're going to wait until it's legal in England later this year.
BOROWITZ: And finally, a marriage that Angelina Jolie cannot break up. I'm thrilled about it. COSTELLO: Hey, you never know.
BOROWITZ: She has powers. She does.
COSTELLO: You know, the really interesting thing, they own five homes. Everybody thinks they're going to get married in Windsor, because they have this beautiful mansion up there. They travel with an entourage of 12 people and...
O'BRIEN: Only 12?
COSTELLO: Only 12. A tennis coach is included.
O'BRIEN: You never know when you're going to need your tennis coach to help you out.
COSTELLO: But the funniest thing is they also travel with 22 dogs.
BOROWITZ: Wow! Twenty-two dogs, how old are those dogs in gay years?
COSTELLO: I don't know, but maybe the cocker spaniel, Arthur, which is Elton's favorite, will be in the wedding.
O'BRIEN: You know so way too much about this story.
SIGESMUND: It's scary. \ O'BRIEN: We're out of time, I'm happy to say. As always, thank you. Carol, a big thank you to you.
Let's get back to Bill.
HEMMER: She was doing her homework, wasn't she, Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Check out the brain on Carol.
Top stories in a moment here. Also, finding the perfect place to retire. Some of the hot new cities for baby boomers who want to live in a more active environment. Back in a moment here, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired April 27, 2005 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's a rainy commute here in New York City. Good morning, everybody. It's 7:30 here. Good to have you along with us today. Good morning to you as well.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A twisted story out of Oklahoma, something new, too, in the Rudolph Dial case now. He's a fugitive from a Texas prison who was only captured recently -- recaptured, in fact. There's new accusations being directed at the FBI. Did the agency hide evidence about the woman who vanished with him? We'll look at that in a moment here; also a book written about this. And we'll talk to the author and try to get to the bottom of it.
O'BRIEN: He's all connected in all of this anyway.
Also this morning, we're talking about that buried treasure in Massachusetts. Have you heard about this story? A couple of guys digging in the backyard literally strike it rich. Now, of course, the question is: Who hid all of this money and coins so long ago?
HEMMER: Yes. They were putting landscaping in, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I think they were yanking out a tree and ended up, oops, what's that?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Who gets to keep the money?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I believe they do.
HEMMER: Right now.
O'BRIEN: The workers, yes.
COSTELLO: Why can't that happen to me?
HEMMER: It may. Start digging. Here's a shovel.
O'BRIEN: You live in Manhattan now. You don't have back yard. That's your first problem.
COSTELLO: Good morning, everyone.
"Now in the News."
Michael Jackson's ex-wife and the mother of his two children is set to take the stand today. Prosecutors want Debbie Rowe to testify about a videotaped interview she gave two years ago defending Jackson. Rowe says it was highly-scripted and that she did the interview in hopes of gaining greater access to her children.
Police in central Florida are on the lookout for a 12-year-old girl. An Amber Alert is out this morning for Margarita Aguilar Lopez. The girl was last seen Monday night at a motel about 30 miles south of Tampa. The suspect apparently has ties to the girl's family.
Pope Benedict XVI is holding his first general audience. The pope spoke to crowds earlier this morning. Some 15,000 people gathered at St. Peter's Square for the event. The new pope pledged to work for peace and harmony.
Some football players could soon face three times as many drug tests. The National Football League is expected to announce the change in policy this morning before the House Government Reform Committee. Congress is trying to decide if it should become involved in how professional sports handles drug testing. Is it a good idea? A former NFL lineman who admits to using steroids will join us in the next hour.
And the world's largest passenger plane taking to the skies -- look at that thing. It looks like it's barely getting off the ground. This is the Airbus A-380 on its maiden voyage, taking off from southern France about three hours ago. The massive double-deck, 550- seat aircraft has taken 10 years and $13 billion to get off the ground. Experts say if everything goes well today, it will still be at least another year before the Airbus starts regular service. And get this, some of those jets have Jacuzzis on them, mini casinos, shopping malls. I don't know about the shopping malls, but it has...
O'BRIEN: The Jacuzzi, that's a good start.
COSTELLO: Isn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: It's great.
HEMMER: Double the flyer miles on that bad boy, by the way.
COSTELLO: I hope so.
HEMMER: That thing is huge.
O'BRIEN: And another bonus!
HEMMER: Keep going! Thank you, Carol.
I want to get to the story now we've been watching now for some time. How did the FBI find out about this decade-old kidnapping case? And what did they know? And when did they know it? In a moment, we'll talk to the author of a book about the disappearances. But first, a bit of background on this bizarre case. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RANDOLPH DIAL, FUGITIVE WHO WAS CAPTURED: I regret to say that I was the hostage-taker, and I will probably live to regret it.
HEMMER (voice over): In 1994, convicted killer Randolph Dial escaped from an Oklahoma prison with Bobbi Parker, a deputy warden's wife, as his hostage.
Eleven years later, after a tip from the TV show "America's Most Wanted," Dial and Parker were found at a chicken farm in East Texas, where for the last five years they had been hiding in plain sight. Parker told police she stayed with Dial out of fear, something Dial seemed to confirm in a jailhouse interview after his capture.
DIAL: She was living under the impression that if she ever tried to get away, I would get away, and I would make her regret it, particularly towards her family.
HEMMER: When police arrested Dial earlier this month, they found a copy of the book "At Large," written about Dial's escape. Dial says he called the author, Charles Sasser, in 2001, to praise the book, and even put Parker on the phone to prove that she was still with him.
Sasser says he told the FBI about the conversation, but Parker's husband, Randy, says he was never notified, and claims the FBI has -- quote -- "blown off" his questions as to why.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And Charles Sasser is the author. He's with us live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, this morning.
Good morning to you, Charles. Thanks for your time today.
CHARLES SASSER, AUTHOR, "AT LARGE": Well, good morning to you, too.
HEMMER: Let's go back to this phone call in 2001. What did he say to you first on the phone?
SASSER: Well, almost the beginning of it, he said he had read my book 12 times, my most ardent fan.
HEMMER: Twelve times?
SASSER: That's what he said. You know, I like fans like that. But he read my book 12 times, he said. And he said, while I wasn't always complimentary to him, that it was fair and it was objective, and that he liked the book, and said the reason he called was that if the fib would give him 30 days alone with me to tell the rest of the story, he would turn himself in.
HEMMER: So then he puts Bobbi on the phone, right? And what did she say?
SASSER: Well, I asked him -- I began by asking him, 'Is Bobbi still alive?' Because this is seven years after they had left, and everyone, or at least everyone I knew, had assumed she was dead. And he said "Sure. Do you want to talk to her?" I said, 'Of course I want to talk to her.'
So, I heard him in the background and he called Bobbi up to the phone. And I asked her three questions to verify that that she really was Bobbi, questions that were very minor but that were not in my book, were not in the news media, that only she would know. She answered the questions.
I then asked her if she was OK. And she said, "I'm fine and I'm happy." And then I think she asked me at that time, "Have you seen my girls?" Meaning her daughters, who were 8 and 10 when she left. And I said I hadn't. And then I encouraged her to call the kids. And then there was a pause, and she said something to the effect that, "I don't know if it's better for them to think I'm dead or for me to call them." And that's...
HEMMER: You were convinced it was Bobbi on the other line, based on her answers, right?
SASSER: Yes.
HEMMER: OK. Now, you go to the FBI. What did the agency say after this information was given to them?
SASSER: Well, I know they checked my phone calls, traced my phone calls. I made a report to the FBI, had written down everything I could think of about the conversation that might help. And I know shortly thereafter, the FBI talked to them on and off over several years, as a matter of fact, about some of the clues in there, trying to figure out the clues that might have led to his capture.
HEMMER: And then, Charles, did you go to her husband? Did you call him and tell him about the conversation you had with Bobbi?
SASSER: I went to no one except to the FBI. Until "America's Most Wanted" came out, I had not made any kind of contact with anybody except the FBI, because they were conducting an investigation.
HEMMER: Her husband is a little ticked off at you a little bit about that, don't you think? I mean, why not give him a phone call to let him know that his wife is alive?
SASSER: Well, that's not my place to make anybody's phone call. I don't, you know, involve myself in an investigation. I didn't notify the news. I notified nobody except the authorities. It wasn't my place. I'm not going to call.
HEMMER: Do you think she was a willing accomplice? Do you think she...
SASSER: Do I think so?
HEMMER: ... could not get away from that captivity in East Texas? SASSER: Well, you know, I don't wish anyone any ill harm. But to me, it's almost unbelievable that a person could stay captured 11 years in plain sight, working away from the place and all of the other opportunities to escape. To me, that's hard to believe.
HEMMER: Then what about the possibility she was staying there out of fear, either for her life or the life of her family?
SASSER: Out of fear. Well, if he was threatening her family, let's look at it. She said she was staying with him out of fear of mafia. Well, if you look at some of the other mafia people who have gone underground, they've lived in, you know, two-story condos or beach houses or houses in the Caribbean. They were living on a chicken farm shoveling chicken manure. That doesn't sound like it's someone who has a lot of contacts, to me.
HEMMER: Do you any idea how she's doing today, Charles?
SASSER: Well, I don't know. I don't know. She just always seemed like a sad little woman to me. And I feel sorry for her. But I feel -- we must not forget that the real victims in this case are the two little girls, who were 8 and 10 years old when she left. And those are the people I really feel sorry for.
HEMMER: Thank you, Charles. The author of "At Large" with us this morning in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Let's take a turn and talk about the weather this morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Well, it is the stuff that dreams are made of, finding buried treasure. For two friends in Massachusetts that dream came true.
Dan Lothian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Twenty-three-year- old Tim Corbasi (ph) hit pay dirt while digging up tree in his back yard three weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, like, I hit this crate. I was just, like, beside myself. I just started jumping around.
LOTHIAN: Buried treasure from the 1890s to the 1920s, stuffed inside nine rusted cans, an underground vault of sorts in Methuen, Massachusetts, north of Boston on the New Hampshire border. Corbasi's (ph) friend, Barry Villcliff, who was helping with the landscaping project, was stunned.
BARRY VILLCLIFF, FRIEND: I look at the can, and I look inside. I can see it's full of dollar bills. Finding rare notes like the bison $10 bills and gold certificates and silver certificates.
LOTHIAN: But was it all real?
VILLCLIFF: Even at that time, we didn't know if they were worth the paper they were printed on or if it's, you know, a huge find.
LOTHIAN: So, they took the loot to a nearby coin shop owner.
DOMENIC MANGAND, VILLAGE COIN SHOP: You're looking at the notes and you're saying, no, this can't be. This can't be. Not all this at once.
LOTHIAN (on camera): Only then did the two friends learn the true value of their discovery. More than $100,000. The theory is that immigrants, more than a century ago, who didn't trust local banks, buried, then forgot the treasures.
(voice over): The friends don't want the public to know where they live, fearful treasure hunters will descend on the property. For now, they plan to split the profits.
Corbasi (ph), who says he still doesn't feel rich...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet. As soon as I sell them I will.
LOTHIAN: ... plans to buy a new car.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: And we're going to chat with the two guys who found that buried treasure coming up a little bit later this morning. They're not rich yet.
HEMMER: They've got a story.
O'BRIEN: And he's got a list of things he wants to buy, that's for sure.
HEMMER: Get a break here. In a moment, the biggest name in online shopping teams up now with the country's most famous department store. Andy tells us what it means for shoppers in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Plus, Brad and Angelina caught frolicking on the beach. But did they get caught on purpose? "90-Second Pop" is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back. And back to Jack and the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
President Bush's two-month odyssey aimed at convincing the country to restructure Social Security is coming to an end apparently with no results. Tuesday's Senate Finance Committee meeting on the president's plan made it clear that privatization isn't going to happen, at least not now. Democrats continue to be opposed. Some Republicans also are faltering in their support.
So the question is this: Since the government is doing nothing, what would you do about Social Security?
George in Virginia writes: "What we don't need is a new government program managing our money in private accounts. Let them manage the Social Security money we already gave them. We already have private accounts. They're called IRAs and 401(k)s."
Kevin in New Jersey writes: "Make the companies that have outsourced jobs pay steep taxes solely for Social Security. These are the workers who are missing from the replenishing pool."
D.C. in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina: "The fixes are obvious. One, do away with the $90,000 cap. Two, raise the early retirement age to 64. And, three, raise the retirement age as life expectancy rises."
A.J. in Florida: "Exactly what our president is doing. His is the best solution there is to offer on this huge problem."
And Bobby in Florida writes: "I would suggest the problem is not Social Security, but spending. If Social Security funds were not to be touched for any reason other than paying out Social Security benefits, the system would fix itself."
Bobby, that's the way it used to be, but they changed it back a few years ago to where now they can dip into the Social Security money, put it right into the general fund and spend it on whatever, anything they want besides Social Security.
HEMMER: A pretty good riddle.
O'BRIEN: But that second e-mail asking about, you know, sort of making a connection between the outsourcing of jobs and the problems with Social Security. Has that been proven? Is that true that there's such a big movement in outsourcing, minding our business man?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: No, it has not been proven. I mean, it's an interesting thing to speculate about.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I've heard it say.
SERWER: But I don't think you can conclusively say.
CAFFERTY: I need a larger staff in order to prove the validity of the 500 e-mails I get every day.
SERWER: Yes, we can do that.
O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry, I had a moment of interest.
HEMMER: You know, there a moment.
CAFFERTY: I don't have any lawyers downstairs who are working on the...
SERWER: The network does have some lawyers, though.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but -- oh, sorry for raising what I thought was an interesting point.
HEMMER: Yes, but I think your point very well taken. There was a great piece in the "Post" yesterday, the "Washington Post." It talked about the political climate in 1935 when this thing came into being, and the challenges FDR faced not only from the Republicans, but also from his own party, too. You're starting to see shades of that same argument down in Washington now. So, thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the market.
SERWER: OK.
O'BRIEN: And let's talk about Amazon.com.
SERWER: Yes. You know this has been a tremendous growth story. It's starting to hit the wall a little bit. I mean, you get so big, obviously your growth is going to slow down. This happens time and time again.
Yesterday on Wall Street there was a bit of a sell-off. The Dow was down 91 points. Some concerns in terms of consumer confidence yesterday, even as new housing starts gained.
And one stock we're going to be watching this morning, in fact, is Amazon.com. They reported after the bell yesterday, Soledad. Profits down 30 percent. Sales continue to grow. Expenses, though, are climbing. And that stock is down 5 percent in pre-market trading. The stock is down from 54 to 32 over the past year.
One thing they have just announced, though, is a new storefront. And this is the thing that people are really questioning in terms of their strategy. Macys.com, you'll be linked from Amazon to Macy's. These are deals that they have, Amazon has with other companies as well, such as Target, Toys R Us, Nordstrom. That's a great thing, because it brings more people into Amazon. But obviously, they're making less money when they're directing people to other sites.
CAFFERTY: I'll tell you something else they could do. I ordered a Patsy Cline CD about three months ago. It says on the Web when you order it, it usually ships in three days. Then you get a note after you order it, well, it may be a month. Then it may be two months. I never got the Patsy Cline CD .
I ordered Hank Snow's autobiography, same thing, usually ships in three or four days. It's a book I want to read.
SERWER: Footprints in the snow.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Well, now they say it may be there in May. You know, we're not sure.
One of the things they might do is if they say it ships in three days, then ship the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thing in three days, or else put on there it may ship in three days or in two months. We don't really know. Just a thought.
SERWER: Truth in marketing might be a nice idea?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Improving customer service on some fronts.
SERWER: Yes.
SERWER: We have an angry customer here, Seattle.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: We're going to get you resolution by the end of this show, Jack.
SERWER: I think we actually might here.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Well, it is the "American Idol" story Fox doesn't want anybody to see. Is one of the judges breaking all the rules? "90- Second Pop" is up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: This is my new favorite song. It's like a head-banging song. Who is it? Who sings it?
COSTELLO: Gwen Stefani.
O'BRIEN: Oh, sorry. I have four children. I don't listen to music anymore unless it's like for preschoolers.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Rappie, rappie (ph).
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome. It's time for the Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop." Let me introduce you to our pop panelists this morning. B.J. Sigesmund from "Us Weekly." Carol Costello is pinch hitting for us this morning.
Good morning.
And Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com. We have so much to talk about. Let's get to it.
We're going to start with "Us Weekly," because these pictures made a lot of money.
B.J. SIGESMUND, "US WEEKLY": Amazing, aren't they?
O'BRIEN: Well, I don't know if they're amazing. Let's take a look at them first. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt finally in the same shot, and look at little Maddox, who is so adorable, also in the same shot. But this is like the big romantic? It doesn't look that romantic.
SIGESMUND: I think these pictures are awesome. And we can only show two of them on CNN this morning. The magazine, which is out this week, has 12 full pages of them. And they tell a beautiful story. Brad and Angelina walking along the beach...
COSTELLO: Oh!
SIGESMUND: Hold on, Carol. Walking along the beach with Maddox building sand castles. Angelina is holding a pail, bringing more water to Brad and Maddox. And, you know, if these two are involved, it definitely brings more level to the certainty that they are romantically involved.
O'BRIEN: Before I let the panel take exception to some of that, I want to point out what you can see right there, right there, that's from the movie, "Mr. and Mrs. Smith," right?
SIGESMUND: Yes, that looks like a still from the movie.
O'BRIEN: I mean, because they're hugging and kissing. But, like, I sort of thought salacious pictures, hugging and kissing. You don't see that.
SIGESMUND: But, you know, that's sort of the point, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: They're in so in love they don't kiss anymore?
SIGESMUND: No, but actually..
BOROWITZ: They just build things out of sand now.
SIGESMUND: Well, any couple...
BOROWITZ: That's the hot thing that couples do.
SIGESMUND: Any couple that comes in the public eye in a controversial way, you don't want the first picture of them together in a big kiss.
O'BRIEN: Staged.
SIGESMUND: This is a way of breaking the story softly if they are romantically involved. BOROWITZ: Are you, like, going to choreograph their first fight for us? That would be really great if they just have like a fight.
SIGESMUND: OK, Carol, bring it on.
COSTELLO: You mean they knew that photographers were there, and they were doing this just as an entree.
BOROWITZ: Right.
SIGESMUND: Well, there has been speculation that they did know that a photographer was there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I mean, they're on an empty beach in Kenya, for god's sake.
COSTELLO: And they're clothed! They're not even in bathing suits.
BOROWITZ: And they had a crew working on that castle the night before, too.
O'BRIEN: And the truth is, anytime you're with your 3-year-old, it's so not romantic anyway. This really could be true reality. All right.
SIGESMUND: Thank you Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome, B.J. You know I'm here for you.
We're talking about Paula Abdul again.
BOROWITZ: Why not?
O'BRIEN: There is -- because, you know, she's had a tough time. ABC News has got this special edition of "Primetime Live."
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: They're going to have a big expose. They haven't exactly said what they're going to be talking about.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: So, what do we know?
BOROWITZ: Well, it's all going to be scandal time at "American Idol." And I guess they're not saying what's in there. I guess what's being alleged is that they're going to talk about potential inappropriate contact or activity between Paula, who seems like such a beacon of stability to me, and one of the contestants. But Paula, you know, in the past...
O'BRIEN: Wait. So, she's hooked up with a contestant?
BOROWITZ: Well, that's the alleged -- allegedly. There have always been rumors about her and costars. I mean, back in the '90s remember her and MC Scat Cat. There was that whole thing. So, I don't know. I mean, I just don't know what to believe. I don't really know.
SIGESMUND: And it's interesting, because Martin Singer, Paula Abdul's lawyer, is on the aggressive, trying to prevent ABC "Primetime Live" from doing this expose, which is scheduled for the sweeps.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Which everybody knows, it generally means, you know, if you've got your lawyers, big guns out, it kind of means there might be something there, right?
BOROWITZ: It's those lawsuits flying back between, like, ABC and Fox. So, you wonder, like, who is the winner. I think Court TV. I think Court TV will be the winner.
O'BRIEN: When they run the whole thing.
Some people have called this the other royal wedding. Elton John.
COSTELLO: Elton John.
O'BRIEN: He's going to get wed.
COSTELLO: Oh, it's a beautiful story, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A love story of 12 years.
COSTELLO: David Furnish and Elton John have been...
O'BRIEN: Stop pretending to cry.
COSTELLO: I'm teary-eyed. But Elton John and David Furnish have been together for 12 years. Elton John says that's like 120 years in gay years. That's a good thing. Everybody is wondering where the wedding is going to take place, because it has to be something hugely elaborate, since, of course, it's Elton John.
O'BRIEN: Well, all of the other parties are really, really elaborate. You've got wonder what the wedding is going to be like.
BOROWITZ: And there are these beautiful photographs of them on the beach decorating a sand castle. And you've got to check that out.
SIGESMUND: Well, you know, Elton John is not the first gay celebrity to get married. We've seen a few lately, but he's definitely the first gay celebrity to be married to a woman back in 1984 and then divorced four years later and now be married to a guy. And it's going to be legal, because they're going to wait until it's legal in England later this year.
BOROWITZ: And finally, a marriage that Angelina Jolie cannot break up. I'm thrilled about it. COSTELLO: Hey, you never know.
BOROWITZ: She has powers. She does.
COSTELLO: You know, the really interesting thing, they own five homes. Everybody thinks they're going to get married in Windsor, because they have this beautiful mansion up there. They travel with an entourage of 12 people and...
O'BRIEN: Only 12?
COSTELLO: Only 12. A tennis coach is included.
O'BRIEN: You never know when you're going to need your tennis coach to help you out.
COSTELLO: But the funniest thing is they also travel with 22 dogs.
BOROWITZ: Wow! Twenty-two dogs, how old are those dogs in gay years?
COSTELLO: I don't know, but maybe the cocker spaniel, Arthur, which is Elton's favorite, will be in the wedding.
O'BRIEN: You know so way too much about this story.
SIGESMUND: It's scary. \ O'BRIEN: We're out of time, I'm happy to say. As always, thank you. Carol, a big thank you to you.
Let's get back to Bill.
HEMMER: She was doing her homework, wasn't she, Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Check out the brain on Carol.
Top stories in a moment here. Also, finding the perfect place to retire. Some of the hot new cities for baby boomers who want to live in a more active environment. Back in a moment here, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
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