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CNN Live Saturday
Analysis of Missing Bride-to-be; A Look Back a Vietnam War
Aired April 30, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The search for a missing bride-to-be appears to have a happy ending, and then takes a bizarre turn. What does her community think now about the bride who got cold feet?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JENNIFER WILBANKS, FAKED HER OWN ABDUCTION: I've got my family and the police on the payphone and they want to know if you're on the way.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LIN: You're listening to Jennifer Wilbanks. It was her first outreach to police since her disappearance. Hear what she had to say to a 911 dispatcher. It is April 30th and you're watching CNN LIVE SATURDAY.
From CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin and here's what's happening right now in the news.
A U.S. military report says no action should be taken against American soldiers who shot and killed an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq. The report says the car carrying the agent and a freed hostage failed to slow down when approaching a checkpoint. The Italian government disputes those conclusions.
The U.S. embassy in Egypt advises Americans to avoid tourist areas in Cairo. This, after two attacks in that city left three people dead. Authorities say a bomber blew himself up and wounded seven people behind the Egyptian Museum. It happened shortly before two women fatally shot each other, after shooting at a tourist bus.
And visitors from all over the country are paying respects at Washington's Vietnam Veteran's Memorial on this anniversary of the fall of Saigon. The memorial wall bears the names of U.S. service members who died in the war, which ended 30 years ago today.
And this would have been about the time 600 guests were to toast the marriage of Jennifer Wilbanks and her fiance. Instead, the bride- to-be has a lot of explaining to do. Wilbanks vanished in Duluth, Georgia, Tuesday. Her family spent several agonizing days without any news of her whereabouts. Well, that abruptly changed overnight. CNN's John Zarrella brings us up-to-date.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A case that seemed to be leading nowhere, suddenly cracked wide open. About 1:40 a.m., Wilbanks places a collect call from a pay phone outside this convenience store in Albuquerque, New Mexico. More than 1,200 miles away in Duluth, Georgia, Wilbanks' fiance is in tears at the sound of her voice on the line. John Mason keeps Wilbanks on the phone long enough for police to trace the call, but he tells reporters that she gave him no details about what happened to her.
JOHN MASON, MILBANKS' FIANCE: I was crying. I was laughing. I was trying to stay calm to talk to her to keep her calm. It's just so much.
ZARRELLA: Minutes later, Albuquerque police arrive at the scene to find a shaken bride-to-be. She said she is cold and afraid. There is a lot police still don't know.
TRISH AHRENSFELD, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE: All that is still being investigated so at this time, she is here. She is with police. She is, doesn't appear to be in any life threatening injuries.
ZARRELLA: Back in Georgia, a celebration is under way at the home of John Mason, an endless stream of Wilbanks' family and friends, including members of the bridal party, thrilled she is safe, but there is another twist to Wilbanks' story. Back in New Mexico, Wilbanks is taken to police headquarters and questioned by the FBI.
She goes into detail with police about how she was abducted, taken in Georgia, she said, by an Hispanic man and a white woman. She even described the vehicle she said she was taken in, a blue van. She told police that her abductors had cut her hair. Authorities say it did look like her hair had been cut, but as police continued to question her, her story changed, dramatically.
CHIEF RAY SCHULTZ, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE: At approximately 4 a.m. this morning, Ms. Wilbanks informed agents and detectives that she had not been abducted as she had originally claimed. Agents and detectives learned that Ms. Wilbanks had become scared and concerned about her pending marriage, and decided that she needed some time alone.
ZARRELLA: The news hits home, where friends and family have been on a roller coaster of emotion. Now, trying to understand what really happened to Wilbanks, and what could have caused her to run.
MELINDA LARSON, FRIEND OF JOHN MASON: Well, anyone that's planning a wedding knows that it's stressful, there's drama, it's challenging, it's overwhelming. There's so much pressure involved that 95 percent falls on the bride, so the fact that there's stress and concern regarding the pressures involved with the wedding is of no surprise to anyone that has ever planned a wedding.
ZARRELLA: The man who was due to marry the couple Saturday night said there really is no way to describe what the groom-to-be, questioned himself earlier this week by police, has been through. REV. ALAN JONES, PEACHTREE BAPTIST CHURCH: John Mason is experiencing something right now that probably nobody in this country has experienced in such a great way, with the media attention and the things that have been brought forth.
ZARRELLA: Family members flew to Albuquerque to bring Wilbanks home alive, but with many questions left to be answered. John Zarrella, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Now, while in Albuquerque, Jennifer Wilbanks called 911, seemingly sobbing and hysterical. She described the people she said kidnapped her, in great detail. Here is a portion of that tape.
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
J. WILBANKS: It happened in Duluth.
911: OK, and the male that did this to you, was he black, white, Hispanic or Native American?
J. WILBANKS: Hispanic.
911: About how old?
J. WILBANKS: I would say they're -- I mean, I would say in their 40s maybe?
911: How tall was he?
J. WILBANKS: I don't know, it was about 5'10, about my height, about 5'9/
911: What was his weight, approximately, thin, heavy, medium build?
J. WILBANKS: It was medium build. Yeah. I don't know.
911: What color hair did he have?
J. WILBANKS: Black.
911: Was it long or short?
J. WILBANKS: Short.
911: Did he have any facial hair?
J. WILBANKS: No.
911: What color shirt or jacket was he wearing when you last saw him?
J. WILBANKS: He had on a maroon jacket and I don't know what color shirt under it. 911: What color was his pants?
J. WILBANKS: Blue jeans.
911: And what kind of vehicle was he driving?
J. WILBANKS: It was a blue van, like a dark van.
911: Was it a conversion van or a small mini-van.
J. WILBANKS: It wasn't a mini-van, it was like a paint or a work van.
(END AUDIOTAPE)
LIN: All right, joining me on the telephone right now is CNN correspondent Peter Viles. Peter, you're out in Albuquerque. I think you are about to board a plane. We're waiting to see whether this family, when or if this family is going to be reunited with their daughter. Tell me what's happening out there.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): I'm on that plane as we speak and so is Jennifer Wilbanks. I think there is one family member with her, but I can't really tell. Her face is covered with a blanket. That's how she came to the airport and walked through the airport. It is I have to tell you a bizarre scene. She has a blanket over her head, she is sitting in first class, sort of curled up almost and several police officers are watching over her, as we wait for this plane to take off.
LIN: Peter, are you under the impression that the police officers are there only for her personal security?
VILES: Yeah, I would say security and even comfort, as they walked her through the airport they were literally trying to comfort her, whispering to her. There were all of these cameras and flash bulbs and people shouting at her. But she didn't respond and in a bizarre scene, she had a colored blanket over her head the whole time.
LIN: We're looking at the videotape as she's making her way through the airport. On screen left, there is a blonde female officer.
VILES: Sure.
LIN: I know you spoke with her before, Trish Ahrensfield. I interviewed her earlier as well. I asked her whether Jennifer Wilbanks seemed embarrassed or remorseful. Jennifer Wilbanks apparently released a statement earlier saying that she wanted to defer these questions to her fiance, and her family. You can give us an idea, I know the towel's over her head but what is your sense of her state of mind right now?
VILES: It's so hard to tell. I was walking close to her but it's so hard to tell what's going on with another person who is beside you won't speak and you can't see their face. She did seem to be a little distraught and the two police officers who were walking with her were literally whispering comforting things in her ear. And our producer witnessed one of the police officers giving her a teddy bear as she walked into the airport. Their feeling seems to be that for now, the best thing they can do is comfort her, get her back home and let Georgia authorities deal with it from there.
LIN: Peter, it's interesting the way you're describing the scene and how they're treating a 32-year-old woman who was supposed to be married today. It's almost as if they're treating her like she was a child.
VILES: As I say, it's one of the more bizarre things I've seen as 15 years as a reporter, to have this parade through the airport, with maybe 10 cameramen and a lot of police escort and this sort of frail woman in the middle of it with a blanket over her head and everybody just wants to hear her say a few words. And for now she's either not capable or doesn't want to do that.
LIN: Do you know what the plan is once she lands?
VILES: I do not, other than that she told that police officer, Trish, who you interviewed earlier, CNN interviewed earlier, she didn't want to make a statement until she had gotten home and gotten together with her family. So presumably at some point tonight after she gets back to her home and meets with her family, maybe someone from the family might come out. But we don't have any reason to believe she's ready to come out and say something.
LIN: Peter, this story basically unfolded dramatically overnight with this 911 call and a call to her fiance. Apparently she was questioned overnight by police and FBI investigators. Tell us how that unfolded.
VILES: Well, they questioned her for about two to three hours overnight and at some point during the questioning, the detectives who were questioning her sensed some inconsistencies in her stories and some of her behavior they didn't think was consistent with the behavior of a victim of a crime.
They also noticed one inconsistency we heard about when she described the van that she allegedly said kidnapped her, the color of the van changed as she described it. Sometimes it was dark blue and sometimes it was not dark blue. So they noticed the inconsistencies and over the course of a couple hours, they finally came around to asking her, Jennifer, do we really need to go out there and look for a van, and she said to them, "No." And at that point, she sort of gave up this lie, if you will, and started telling them the truth.
LIN: All right, well, the public information officer, Trish Ahrensfield did say that Albuquerque officials were not planning on pressing any criminal charges. They said she wasn't really in their jurisdiction to invest a lot of resources in investigating this matter. So it's going to be turned over to the Georgia authorities here. Did you get a chance to kind of get a feel for public reaction out there? I mean, this was a national story that had been reported for a number of days, a 32-year-old woman with a huge wedding planned for today, 600 guests and a fiance waiting for her, a woman goes out running and suddenly just disappears. What were folks talking about out where you were?
VILES: I have to say in my limited sampling of public opinion at the airport, people were somewhat disappointed in her behavior, thought she may have had selfishly and were disappointed in her and sort of upset so much trouble had been gone through on behalf of this woman who really had just run away. That said, though, we asked the police about this a number of times and they were extreme extremely professional about it. Never voiced any frustration. They said that's the cost of doing something as a police officer. When someone says something bad happened we have to check it out. And at her last night here in Albuquerque the said they didn't spend any extra money on the case. They had officers on duty to pick her up, they had detectives on duty to question her. They were doing their job. And as of yet I haven't heard any frustrations from the police here over what they went through.
LIN: All right, Peter, you're watching this video and you're describing a scene where officers are treating this young woman, Jennifer Wilbanks, with kid gloves and giving her a teddy bear and comforting her on the plane. When are you going to take off?
VILES: They are going through the plane now. I still see a number of police officers on the plane who I do not believe are flying to Atlanta. So it looks like they're leaving the plane and I expect any minute that someone will ask me to turn off my cell phone. We should leave shortly.
LIN: Good enough. I know, Peter, you're covering this for us, in the skies, and when you land, we'll hear from you as soon as possible, as soon as you have anything more to share about us. Thank you very much, Peter Viles on the flight with 32-year-old Jennifer Wilbanks, the runaway bride who is now being flown home with a police escort, and lots of questions, I'm sure, by her family and friends, who are relieved to find out that she is alive. We'll have special coverage tonight as well in an 8:00 special to follow the story for you.
In the meantime we're going to take a quick break and much more news ahead. In fact, I'm going to be talking with a clinical psychologist and an FBI investigator who is on the ground in Albuquerque. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, hundreds of police and volunteers searched for Jennifer Wilbanks after her disappearance and today, some of them are reacting to the news. She vanished because she needed some time to be alone before this huge wedding extravaganza which was supposed to happen today. CNN's Denise Belgrave is out in Duluth, Georgia with more on that.
Denise, what are people saying, the people who invested so much time and effort into trying to find this woman? DENISE BELGRAVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, one person today described what this town has been through as emotional whiplash. This town literally spent three days literally spent three searching for Jennifer. That search included canine teams and also included swift boat search and rescue squads and more than 10 volunteers who went out for three days in a row, and searched a five-mile square radius area. One of the people we talked to today explained how he felt when he heard the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AERIK RICHARDS, SEARCHER: I don't know that anger is the right word, Denise. I think that maybe betrayed, you know, that so many people were out there. That all she had to do was call one friend, one person, one family member and say you know what? I couldn't go through with it. Tell everybody I'm okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: We went to a diner today, and we talked to a bunch of people who were there, and they expressed a lot of the same sentiments. They said they could understand getting cold feet, and getting nervous about getting married, but what they could not understand is Jennifer's actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her parents have been crying, you know, she put a lot of people into stress, and I don't know if he's going to marry that woman or not. You know? That remains to be seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: Whether or not the wedding is going to go on or not is not a primary concern right now. Jennifer's pastor, Alan Jones, really summed up what everybody thinks the priority needs to be right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Sure, we were all disappointed, maybe a little embarrassed, but you know what? If you remember all the interviews yesterday, we were praying, at this point, let her be a runaway bride, so God was faithful, and Jennifer's alive and we're all thankful for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: And certainly, no matter how upset or how angry people are, I think pretty much everybody agrees that they're relieved that she was found alive -- Carol.
LIN: You bet. Anybody who saw the families at that news conference yesterday, everyone's heart went out to them, and indeed in that sense it is a happy ending. Denise Belgrave, thank you very much. Well, the FBI interviewed Jennifer Wilbanks after she made that 911 call in Albuquerque. Bill Elwell, the spokesman for the FBI's Albuquerque office joins me now.
Bill, this national story landed right in your lap. What was your reaction when you found out who this young woman was?
BILL ELWELL, FBI SPOKESMAN: Well, after being called by the Albuquerque police department and them discovering she had made the 911 call, the agents in the office all the way from our special agent in charge, Andreas Stephens (ph) were relieved that first of all she was alive and well.
After we started the interviews and started to discover what the final story was, well, of course we were even more relieved that we didn't have a violent act that had culminated in her being in Albuquerque.
LIN: It's a very sensitive situation. Here your officers joining in on the questioning of this young woman are thinking they're going into one situation, right, a kidnapping of a young woman found alive, and suddenly, it evolves over hours of questioning. Give me the specifics of how that kind of questioning is conducted.
ELWELL: Well, the Albuquerque FBI agents that were involved in this, in this investigation were from our violent crimes squad, and many of them are trained, as are the Albuquerque police department violent crime detectives, in techniques that allow maybe the victim to basically tell us what exactly has transpired, and then if you get a situation like this, they allow them an out, possibly, to be able to maybe correct their statement, maybe to come one the actual situation that did transpire, and that's what happened here.
LIN: What was the turning point? What was the turning point in that conversation?
ELWELL: I think at one point, one of the interviewers, I don't know whether it was one of the police officers or one of the agents, made a remark about "maybe we should discontinue trying to look for a certain vehicle," and at that point, she realized that maybe we should discontinue that and what she did is, she had gained a rapport with one of the female agents that was in on the interview and asked if she could talk to a couple of the agents by themselves and the Albuquerque police officers said by all means. When they left the room they said things are going to change very drastically and they briefed us what was probably going to happen was that she was going to change her story.
LIN: That all of a sudden she just got tired of the lie. Specifically the agents asked, should we continue looking for a blue van?
ELWELL: That is correct.
LIN: And so are you imaging that at that point, she was imagining the resources that were going to go into trying to hunt down a lie, essentially?
ELWELL: Well, you know, everyone has a conscience and I think at that point, she had dealt with a stressful situation, even having to call 911, had not dealt with it correctly, and now, after she had become more relaxed, the very experienced officers and special agents involved in the interview had given her an opportunity to take an out, and she took it, and it's just basically training on the part of some very good interviewers.
LIN: Very, very sensitive, because obviously, they had no idea what she might have gone through, whether she was assaulted or really kidnapped or what her state of mind was. Good job on the part of those officers. Thanks very much, Bill Elwell with the Albuquerque office of the FBI.
In the meantime, we are marking an important occasion here at CNN. Thirty years ago today, Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese Army. Up next I'll speak with one of the marines who was there helping to get people out before the communist army moved in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: People from all over the country are visiting the wall to pay tribute to the troops who died in Vietnam. Many there are Vietnam vets who fought on the front lines with their fallen comrades. Joining me live from the memorial is Mike Dalrymple, he was a 19-year- old marine corporal serving in Vietnam as Americans were being evacuated from Saigon. This has to be a very sentimental journey for you indeed today, mike. I'm just wondering, when you went to the Wall today, who specifically are you remembering on this anniversary?
MIKE DALRYMPLE, SERVED IN VIETNAM: Charles McMahon and Darwin Judge. They were the last two marines killed in Vietnam.
LIN: And friends of yours?
DALRYMPLE: I have friends out here. They were not friends of mine per se, but they were the embassy guards, last of the security.
LIN: You were actually working the embassy. You were helping with the airlifts out.
DALRYMPLE: Yes, I was in charge of landing zone 35 inside the compound, and the evacuation started, and I was actually putting the refugees on the helicopters that were going out to the ships.
LIN: At one point, Mike, there were 3,000 people inside that embassy compound, all of them desperate to leave the country. It was heartbreaking, by all accounts. Almost an act of God of who was able to get on those helicopters and who was not. Tell me what it was like to be there, and what your role was as we watched these people try to board ships and planes to escape this war zone.
DALRYMPLE: At the compound, I was loading the CH-53 choppers with the refugees, and there was a quantity of 70 to 80 that were allowed, and in fact, even one time, they overran me and there was about 120, but they took off anyways with 120 people. So it was hurry up, push, and get out. It was panic.
LIN: Did you -- Right.
DALRYMPLE: Did I what?
LIN: Did you keep in touch with any of the people who did make it out?
DALRYMPLE: I did get a call from my lieutenant, Bruce Thompson Bauer (ph) approximately two years ago, and then I did make contact with a friend of mine who is here with me today, a Lance Corporal jimmy Sanchez (ph).
LIN: And how did those conversations go?
DALRYMPLE: It's been great. We talked about a lot, and what happened, and he was in another area over at the embassy compound, and he was telling me the stories that he had, from his area, and what I had from my area and we've been putting it all together. Just a lot of heartache that we've seen.
LIN: Yeah. When you look at something like that event in retrospect, where there were life or death decisions and you were 19 years old, what has come out of your memories of that day?
DALRYMPLE: My memory of that day, it would be that I got as many out as I could before I had to leave. And I felt good about myself for doing it.
LIN: It sounds to me like you've spent a lot of time thinking about the people that you couldn't help then.
DALRYMPLE: It does, yes, so true. It takes to an incident where a saw a lady leave her baby at the embassy gates and take off running back to the city, and that was during the baby airlift that that's very hard to understand, but the baby got where she wanted the baby to go.
LIN: My God, the sacrifice that people made on that day.
DALRYMPLE: Yes. Yes.
LIN: The name. Vietnam veteran. When people say it today, in 2005, what do you think comes to mind?
DALRYMPLE: The bad war. The people -- that wrongly came out from people, and people being judged as drug addicts, which is the saddest thing ever. They were there doing a job for America, and they come home to disgrace.
LIN: Not much has changed. And for you, Mike, what are you doing these days?
DALRYMPLE: Me, I'm a quality assurance manager. I've got three sons and three grandchildren. They live in La Puente, California. And I'm still trying to get a hold of my former fellow Marines that I served with, the 40 that we were with.
LIN: Wow. Mike Dalrymple, pleasure to meet you. You know what? So many people in your office, I bet they sit by you every day and they have no idea the amazing story that lives inside you. Thanks so much for being with us today.
DALRYMPLE: Thank you.
LIN: 58,000 Americans died in that war. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Now, back to our top story. Jennifer Wilbanks, the runaway bride. She is wearing a towel instead of a veil on her head right now. Wilbanks made national headlines this week when she vanished just days before her wedding. You're looking at pictures of her walking through the Albuquerque airport, about to board a flight that will take her back to the Atlanta area.
She turned up in New Mexico overnight, and she in this video, was taken -- this video was taken as police were escorting her to that plane.
Now, Wilbanks first told authorities she had been abducted, but police say she later admitted she just couldn't handle the pressure of her large wedding, and hopped on a bus to Las Vegas. And then she took another bus to Albuquerque, New Mexico, and from there she called 911, seemingly sobbing and hysterical.
Now, back in Georgia, Wilbanks' family rejoiced at the news that she had been found safe and sound, but the celebration later turned into shock when her story changed. A district attorney in Georgia says he wants to review statements Wilbanks made to police and the FBI before deciding whether to file criminal charges.
Now, earlier today, I talked with a spokeswoman, the spokeswoman for the Albuquerque Police Department. She was seen escorting Wilbanks to the airplane. And I asked her if she thought Jennifer Wilbanks was embarrassed after changing her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRISH AHRENSFIELD, ALBUQUERQUE, NM POLICE: I can't speak for her, but I'm sure she's going through a lot of emotions. I'm sure she, again, she really wants to speak to her family first, and she has stated that she would like to then give a more formal statement when she returns home.
LIN: All right. At what point, Officer Ahrensfield, was it pretty clear that Jennifer Wilbanks was not a kidnapping victim?
AHRENSFIELD: It was clear to the detectives at some point during the interview. They even stated that they believed that she had more things to tell, and at that point, she herself decided to also tell the truth.
LIN: Could you be more specific?
AHRENSFIELD: I think it goes back to the expertise of the detectives, knowing what kind of questions to ask, knowing when to ask more questions. At one point, the detectives stated, "can we stop looking for the blue van?" And she said yes. That's a big indicator that there was no van. And so that was a big clue. And then she also stated that with the stress of everything, and her own statements were the stress of the wedding and all the planning, that she needed some time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: You can see more of my interview with Officer Trish Ahrensfield at 8:00 Eastern, as she goes into more detail of what happened on their end.
In the meantime, Jennifer Wilbanks' actions have many people scratching their heads today. But counselors say the stress of the huge wedding and the fear of disappointing her family may, may explain why she took off.
Judy Kuransky, a clinical psychologist with Columbia University, joins me now, better known as Dr. Judy.
Dr. Judy, let me go over some of the terms we've been using, or hearing today about this young woman, all right, to describe her state of mind. Overstressed, all right?
DR. JUDY KURANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
LIN: Narcissistic.
KURANSKY: Yes, selfish.
LIN: Selfish. Maybe even crazy.
KURANSKY: Yes, well, could have had a break. Yes, what else?
LIN: So what do you think?
KURANSKY: I think she had so much stress about this that she reached a point really of regression. We've seen her being covered in this way, with this little blanket. Kids know what it's like to have a blankey with you. She probably came with that from home, because she had a bag on her...
(CROSSTALK)
LIN: The towel, the striped towel that's over her head?
KURANSKY: Yes. Right, exactly.
LIN: Right now.
KURANSKY: And then we hear that the police gave her a teddy bear, and they were whispering comforting words to her. Well, I spent a lot of time working with people under trauma. And so you, what you want to do is give them teddy bears. We used to do that to all the kids and adults, by the way, after 9/11, because in that kind of stress, teddy bears are comforting. They're what we call a transitional object that makes you feel safe.
And so I think she was regressing. Now, look at the story, Carol, that she came up with. An abduction. How many times on the news have we heard lately even about little girls being abducted, being snatched from their home and taken far away? And so under stress, she came up with the same story that happens to little girls. And so I think under terrific stress, she regressed to this very young age and this really kind of regressive behavior.
LIN: All right, so does that -- because I was going to ask you, what kind of person comes up with this detailed, sinister plot of a kidnapping, with descriptions of the suspect, versus, look, I just can't handle this big wedding and we all need to talk, or just someone who just runs away, you know?
KURANSKY: Well, I think that's what -- the stress made her go back to a childhood feeling of being unsafe and being frightened and being scared and overwhelmed, and no one in the family was able obviously to talk with her. She wasn't able to share with anyone else, and you look over....
LIN: Dr. Judy, this is a wedding! It's a wedding!
KURANSKY: Yes.
LIN: I mean, it's not like, you know, it's not like, I don't know, I'm going to reach here, the death of a child, or -- it was a wedding. It was supposed to be a special, happy occasion, the beginning of this new life with this man.
KURANSKY: Yes, but Carol, if you look at some of the research, we have a scale of the impact of events, and even positive events cause stress. You add them all up, and the person can have a break.
A wedding can be equal to even -- I know people are going to be shocked about this -- the losing of someone, moving away, having a baby. All these things add just to the pressure. They could be good or they could feel bad.
What really is sad here is that, unfortunately, this woman, this 32-year-old woman, who regressed to a child and acted in this way, has done a really negative thing for women's rights, for families everywhere, because she made up a story. Now, a lot of people are not going to believe many of these stories now from here to forward. You'll hear all kinds of things about this one being taken or that one. And so there is really a sad story here for the future of women being believed.
LIN: Well, OK, let's get back to this woman's condition. I mean, so you're saying that she's in a state of regression. Our Peter Viles, who is on the same flight that this woman is on, has described her by telephone as being curled up in a fetal position. The cops gave her a teddy bear. She's got this towel over her head. I mean, is she...
KURANSKY: There you go.
LIN: Is she gone?
KURANSKY: There you go.
LIN: Is she just not with us right now?
KURANSKY: Well, that -- there you go. You see, she's curled up in a fetal position. She's back to being a child, being absolutely into that frightened state. It's going to take a long time for her to recover from this. I think she needs to be in a safe environment, in probably a rehab center, because this is a serious behavior. Just a little interview here and there, one psychologist session once a week is not really going to do it. I think they need family therapy, because obviously she was not communicating with the family. They had no idea what was going on, they even said. It's going to take a long time for her to recover from this, especially with all the media attention. It's going to be very hard for her to form a new relationship. I'm not so sure that it's going to really last with the bridegroom. He's going to be -- he's under tremendous pressure now...
LIN: What should he do? I mean, do you think he should take her back? Should he give her a second chance?
KURANSKY: Well, you know, he looks like a very gracious young man. He's a man -- he's a guy of faith, and so he's offered her forgiveness, but it's going to take a lot for him. He would have to have a heart of gold to really be able to think of this, because I would suspect the way she is right now, he would be worrying like we all would be that if she has a -- when she has a child, if somebody dies, at any point...
LIN: Stress point, yeah.
KURANSKY: ... that kind of behavior, which is to run instead of speak up, share and face what the pressure is. So this would not be a woman who is ready to get married again very soon.
LIN: All right, clearly. All right, Dr. Judy Kuransky, thank you very much for joining us with some insight. It's a private topic, but obviously the family had asked the media for assistance in trying to find this woman, and at least the publicity perhaps may have played a part in that.
Thanks very much, Dr. Judy Kuransky.
We are devoting a special hour to this strange story later today. So pleasure be sure to tune in for "Runaway Bride: Jennifer Wilbanks" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific right here on CNN.
Well, is baseball about to get a lot tougher on athletes who use steroids? Up next, the new rules being proposed by baseball's commissioner. Plus, the issue is not just a problem for male athletes. Why girls as young as in the fourth grade are turning to the illegal substances, and what parents can do about it. I'm going to talk with a doctor when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Bowing to increased pressure, Major League Baseball is calling for tougher penalties for steroid abuse. Commissioner Bud Selig sent a letter to the president of the players' association yesterday, outlining the proposed penalties. First-time offenders would be banned from 50 games; 100 games for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third violation. The players' association has yet to respond to the proposal. Congress has threatened to enact legislation if baseball doesn't clean up its act.
And steroid abuse is not a problem among men or even athletes alone. If you can believe it, more and more teenage girls, even young girls, preteens, are juicing up. And many are doing it to get the toned, sculptured looks of movie stars, like Hilary Swank in the blockbuster hit "Million Dollar Baby," getting that six-pack in their abs.
So how prevalent is this abuse, and how dangerous is it to young girls? Joining me now is Dr. Linn Goldberg, a professor at Oregon Health and Science University, to talk about this. Dr. Goldberg, you have actually met a lot of these young -- I don't even want to call them women. You know, they're girls, right? They're teenage girls, but some, in several publications -- in fact, a recent government study showed that girls as young as 9 are using steroids to get a more sculpted look.
DR. LINN GOLDBERG, OREGON HEALTH & SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: Well, that's true. The Centers for Disease Control said that there -- that over 5 percent of girls, and that's not just athletes, but girls, have used or are using those substances. And that's odd, because these are the male hormone, related to the male hormone testosterone, which imparts a lot of male characteristics.
LIN: Right, so what happens to these girls? I mean, what's their incentive for taking it?
GOLDBERG: Well, if you take smaller doses, because women don't make much, so if you take small doses, you'll be able to look more muscular, or you'll get that six-pack abs, or be able to participate in sports, they're performance-enhancing, so they'll play more like a male than like a young woman.
LIN: So how do they get a hold of it?
GOLDBERG: Well, if you go on the Internet and ask for "buy steroids," you'll get about 1.2 million hits. And people can buy them over the Internet. They get them from friends. You know, there've been recent reports of bringing it up through Mexico, from Connecticut to Texas. So they're readily available to young people.
LIN: And how literally does the body change? I mean, what should the parents be looking for?
GOLDBERG: Well, it could change them emotionally and physically, but emotionally, what can happen, they may become more emotional, a little more aggressive. Women probably less than young males. But after prolonged use, they can get voice deepening. They can get even facial hair. So those are some physiologic changes, and then acne can be much more severe.
LIN: But girls as young as 9? Does that make sense to you?
GOLDBERG: Well, we haven't seen that. And in fact, we don't deal with that age group. We usually deal with the high school population. We've been following this for over a decade-and-a-half, and that's why we developed the ATHENA program, which prevents steroid use and other body-shaping drugs, including diet pills, diuretics, laxatives, which seem to all go together.
LIN: OK, so that girl, or girls, these young women, are watching you right now, Dr. Goldberg, what do you have to say to them?
GOLDBERG: Well, I think the problem is they're gender-bender drugs, and they can permanently change you. We don't know how emotionally that permanence would be, but they can change you physiologically and turn you into a male. In fact, there's one East German athlete, very famous, Heidi Krieger, now known as Andreas Krieger, because it changed her so much, with facial hair and a difference in structure, that she now is identified as a male.
LIN: That is crazy. All right, well, a University of Michigan professor who heads up this annual government-sponsored survey on risky behavior says that other than pedophilia, this is the most secret behavior he's ever encountered, steroid use amongst young girls.
GOLDBERG: Absolutely.
LIN: Dr. Linn Goldberg, thank you very much.
Well, a Big Apple landmark is getting a $350 million makeover. So why does the upgrade mean dozens of workers have to hit the unemployment line? That story next.
But first, here's Al Hunt to tell us what's ahead on "THE CAPITAL GANG." Al?
AL HUNT, CO-HOST, CAPITAL GANG: "THE CAPITAL GANG" looks at President Bush going prime-time on Social Security, Republicans opening a way for an investigation of Tom DeLay, looking at the showdown on judicial filibusters. Plus, a preview of next week's British election. All that and much more next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: A New York landmark is about to close its doors. The Plaza Hotel is shutting down for the next 18 months to undergo a massive renovation. This week, tourists and Plaza regulars visited the hotel to take one final look before the building goes under the knife. It's an operation some employees won't survive, including one of the hotel's living legends. CNN's Alina Cho reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If 98-year-old Plaza Hotel is an institution, so is Ed Trinka. Trinka has been working at the Plaza for 42 years, most of them as a doorman.
ED TRINKA, PLAZA DOORMAN: The first people that I really saw were when the Beatles came to town, and they were on "The Ed Sullivan Show." And all the girls out here, everybody going crazy.
CHO: He was 18 then. He's now 61, and he's seen a lot over the years, including the famous.
TRINKA: Cary Grant, Audrey Hepburn, the Lone Ranger Clayton Moore.
CHO: And the not-so-famous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the gift store open?
TRINKA: Yes, sir. Go right in, around to your left. It's like my own place. Here I am. Central Park, horse and wagons, people, never stops.
CHO: The scene of legendary films like "The Way We Were" and "North by Northwest."
CARY GRANT, ACTOR: Perhaps if I sent her a telegram?
CHO: Where celebrities get married and the well-heeled have high tea.
Now the Plaza's new owners are closing the hotel for an 18-month, $350 million renovation.
The landmark exterior won't be touched. Three hundred fifty of the 800 rooms will stay hotel rooms, but the remaining rooms, all of them with views of Central Park, will become luxury condominiums.
Many hotel workers are losing their jobs. Trinka is taking a severance package.
TRINKA: I told a lot of the younger fellows in all this that, you know, it's not the end of the world. There is life after the Plaza, and you have to carry on. That's all. And that's it.
CHO (on camera): And what's your life after the Plaza?
TRINKA: Well, I get two little granddaughters, 2 and 4. I'll be playing with them a lot more now.
CHO: That job may be harder, right?
TRINKA: Yes, that's one there. That might be harder, yeah.
CHO (voice-over): Rick and Robin Rinsler (ph) have been staying at the Plaza for years. They came for their 21st wedding anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we thought we'd feel like we're going down with the Titanic.
CHO: 7-year-old Sophia Higgins (ph) came to see Eloise, the storybook girl who lives at the Plaza.
(on camera): You think she lives here? Where do you think she is right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm note sure, maybe in the elevator.
CHO (voice-over): Trinka calls it...
TRINKA: Thanks for your concern. God bless you.
CHO: ... the end of an era.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That's all the time we have for this hour, but coming up next on THE CAPITAL GANG, stay tuned for them, because then at 8:00 Eastern, you're going to tune into our live special on today's top story, Georgia's runaway bride. At 9:00, it's an encore presentation of "LARRY KING LIVE." Stars in the entertainment business talk about their personal battles with depression.
And I'll be back at 10:00 Eastern with a check of the hour's headlines, and then THE CAPITAL GANG.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 30, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The search for a missing bride-to-be appears to have a happy ending, and then takes a bizarre turn. What does her community think now about the bride who got cold feet?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JENNIFER WILBANKS, FAKED HER OWN ABDUCTION: I've got my family and the police on the payphone and they want to know if you're on the way.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LIN: You're listening to Jennifer Wilbanks. It was her first outreach to police since her disappearance. Hear what she had to say to a 911 dispatcher. It is April 30th and you're watching CNN LIVE SATURDAY.
From CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin and here's what's happening right now in the news.
A U.S. military report says no action should be taken against American soldiers who shot and killed an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq. The report says the car carrying the agent and a freed hostage failed to slow down when approaching a checkpoint. The Italian government disputes those conclusions.
The U.S. embassy in Egypt advises Americans to avoid tourist areas in Cairo. This, after two attacks in that city left three people dead. Authorities say a bomber blew himself up and wounded seven people behind the Egyptian Museum. It happened shortly before two women fatally shot each other, after shooting at a tourist bus.
And visitors from all over the country are paying respects at Washington's Vietnam Veteran's Memorial on this anniversary of the fall of Saigon. The memorial wall bears the names of U.S. service members who died in the war, which ended 30 years ago today.
And this would have been about the time 600 guests were to toast the marriage of Jennifer Wilbanks and her fiance. Instead, the bride- to-be has a lot of explaining to do. Wilbanks vanished in Duluth, Georgia, Tuesday. Her family spent several agonizing days without any news of her whereabouts. Well, that abruptly changed overnight. CNN's John Zarrella brings us up-to-date.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A case that seemed to be leading nowhere, suddenly cracked wide open. About 1:40 a.m., Wilbanks places a collect call from a pay phone outside this convenience store in Albuquerque, New Mexico. More than 1,200 miles away in Duluth, Georgia, Wilbanks' fiance is in tears at the sound of her voice on the line. John Mason keeps Wilbanks on the phone long enough for police to trace the call, but he tells reporters that she gave him no details about what happened to her.
JOHN MASON, MILBANKS' FIANCE: I was crying. I was laughing. I was trying to stay calm to talk to her to keep her calm. It's just so much.
ZARRELLA: Minutes later, Albuquerque police arrive at the scene to find a shaken bride-to-be. She said she is cold and afraid. There is a lot police still don't know.
TRISH AHRENSFELD, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE: All that is still being investigated so at this time, she is here. She is with police. She is, doesn't appear to be in any life threatening injuries.
ZARRELLA: Back in Georgia, a celebration is under way at the home of John Mason, an endless stream of Wilbanks' family and friends, including members of the bridal party, thrilled she is safe, but there is another twist to Wilbanks' story. Back in New Mexico, Wilbanks is taken to police headquarters and questioned by the FBI.
She goes into detail with police about how she was abducted, taken in Georgia, she said, by an Hispanic man and a white woman. She even described the vehicle she said she was taken in, a blue van. She told police that her abductors had cut her hair. Authorities say it did look like her hair had been cut, but as police continued to question her, her story changed, dramatically.
CHIEF RAY SCHULTZ, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE: At approximately 4 a.m. this morning, Ms. Wilbanks informed agents and detectives that she had not been abducted as she had originally claimed. Agents and detectives learned that Ms. Wilbanks had become scared and concerned about her pending marriage, and decided that she needed some time alone.
ZARRELLA: The news hits home, where friends and family have been on a roller coaster of emotion. Now, trying to understand what really happened to Wilbanks, and what could have caused her to run.
MELINDA LARSON, FRIEND OF JOHN MASON: Well, anyone that's planning a wedding knows that it's stressful, there's drama, it's challenging, it's overwhelming. There's so much pressure involved that 95 percent falls on the bride, so the fact that there's stress and concern regarding the pressures involved with the wedding is of no surprise to anyone that has ever planned a wedding.
ZARRELLA: The man who was due to marry the couple Saturday night said there really is no way to describe what the groom-to-be, questioned himself earlier this week by police, has been through. REV. ALAN JONES, PEACHTREE BAPTIST CHURCH: John Mason is experiencing something right now that probably nobody in this country has experienced in such a great way, with the media attention and the things that have been brought forth.
ZARRELLA: Family members flew to Albuquerque to bring Wilbanks home alive, but with many questions left to be answered. John Zarrella, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Now, while in Albuquerque, Jennifer Wilbanks called 911, seemingly sobbing and hysterical. She described the people she said kidnapped her, in great detail. Here is a portion of that tape.
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
J. WILBANKS: It happened in Duluth.
911: OK, and the male that did this to you, was he black, white, Hispanic or Native American?
J. WILBANKS: Hispanic.
911: About how old?
J. WILBANKS: I would say they're -- I mean, I would say in their 40s maybe?
911: How tall was he?
J. WILBANKS: I don't know, it was about 5'10, about my height, about 5'9/
911: What was his weight, approximately, thin, heavy, medium build?
J. WILBANKS: It was medium build. Yeah. I don't know.
911: What color hair did he have?
J. WILBANKS: Black.
911: Was it long or short?
J. WILBANKS: Short.
911: Did he have any facial hair?
J. WILBANKS: No.
911: What color shirt or jacket was he wearing when you last saw him?
J. WILBANKS: He had on a maroon jacket and I don't know what color shirt under it. 911: What color was his pants?
J. WILBANKS: Blue jeans.
911: And what kind of vehicle was he driving?
J. WILBANKS: It was a blue van, like a dark van.
911: Was it a conversion van or a small mini-van.
J. WILBANKS: It wasn't a mini-van, it was like a paint or a work van.
(END AUDIOTAPE)
LIN: All right, joining me on the telephone right now is CNN correspondent Peter Viles. Peter, you're out in Albuquerque. I think you are about to board a plane. We're waiting to see whether this family, when or if this family is going to be reunited with their daughter. Tell me what's happening out there.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): I'm on that plane as we speak and so is Jennifer Wilbanks. I think there is one family member with her, but I can't really tell. Her face is covered with a blanket. That's how she came to the airport and walked through the airport. It is I have to tell you a bizarre scene. She has a blanket over her head, she is sitting in first class, sort of curled up almost and several police officers are watching over her, as we wait for this plane to take off.
LIN: Peter, are you under the impression that the police officers are there only for her personal security?
VILES: Yeah, I would say security and even comfort, as they walked her through the airport they were literally trying to comfort her, whispering to her. There were all of these cameras and flash bulbs and people shouting at her. But she didn't respond and in a bizarre scene, she had a colored blanket over her head the whole time.
LIN: We're looking at the videotape as she's making her way through the airport. On screen left, there is a blonde female officer.
VILES: Sure.
LIN: I know you spoke with her before, Trish Ahrensfield. I interviewed her earlier as well. I asked her whether Jennifer Wilbanks seemed embarrassed or remorseful. Jennifer Wilbanks apparently released a statement earlier saying that she wanted to defer these questions to her fiance, and her family. You can give us an idea, I know the towel's over her head but what is your sense of her state of mind right now?
VILES: It's so hard to tell. I was walking close to her but it's so hard to tell what's going on with another person who is beside you won't speak and you can't see their face. She did seem to be a little distraught and the two police officers who were walking with her were literally whispering comforting things in her ear. And our producer witnessed one of the police officers giving her a teddy bear as she walked into the airport. Their feeling seems to be that for now, the best thing they can do is comfort her, get her back home and let Georgia authorities deal with it from there.
LIN: Peter, it's interesting the way you're describing the scene and how they're treating a 32-year-old woman who was supposed to be married today. It's almost as if they're treating her like she was a child.
VILES: As I say, it's one of the more bizarre things I've seen as 15 years as a reporter, to have this parade through the airport, with maybe 10 cameramen and a lot of police escort and this sort of frail woman in the middle of it with a blanket over her head and everybody just wants to hear her say a few words. And for now she's either not capable or doesn't want to do that.
LIN: Do you know what the plan is once she lands?
VILES: I do not, other than that she told that police officer, Trish, who you interviewed earlier, CNN interviewed earlier, she didn't want to make a statement until she had gotten home and gotten together with her family. So presumably at some point tonight after she gets back to her home and meets with her family, maybe someone from the family might come out. But we don't have any reason to believe she's ready to come out and say something.
LIN: Peter, this story basically unfolded dramatically overnight with this 911 call and a call to her fiance. Apparently she was questioned overnight by police and FBI investigators. Tell us how that unfolded.
VILES: Well, they questioned her for about two to three hours overnight and at some point during the questioning, the detectives who were questioning her sensed some inconsistencies in her stories and some of her behavior they didn't think was consistent with the behavior of a victim of a crime.
They also noticed one inconsistency we heard about when she described the van that she allegedly said kidnapped her, the color of the van changed as she described it. Sometimes it was dark blue and sometimes it was not dark blue. So they noticed the inconsistencies and over the course of a couple hours, they finally came around to asking her, Jennifer, do we really need to go out there and look for a van, and she said to them, "No." And at that point, she sort of gave up this lie, if you will, and started telling them the truth.
LIN: All right, well, the public information officer, Trish Ahrensfield did say that Albuquerque officials were not planning on pressing any criminal charges. They said she wasn't really in their jurisdiction to invest a lot of resources in investigating this matter. So it's going to be turned over to the Georgia authorities here. Did you get a chance to kind of get a feel for public reaction out there? I mean, this was a national story that had been reported for a number of days, a 32-year-old woman with a huge wedding planned for today, 600 guests and a fiance waiting for her, a woman goes out running and suddenly just disappears. What were folks talking about out where you were?
VILES: I have to say in my limited sampling of public opinion at the airport, people were somewhat disappointed in her behavior, thought she may have had selfishly and were disappointed in her and sort of upset so much trouble had been gone through on behalf of this woman who really had just run away. That said, though, we asked the police about this a number of times and they were extreme extremely professional about it. Never voiced any frustration. They said that's the cost of doing something as a police officer. When someone says something bad happened we have to check it out. And at her last night here in Albuquerque the said they didn't spend any extra money on the case. They had officers on duty to pick her up, they had detectives on duty to question her. They were doing their job. And as of yet I haven't heard any frustrations from the police here over what they went through.
LIN: All right, Peter, you're watching this video and you're describing a scene where officers are treating this young woman, Jennifer Wilbanks, with kid gloves and giving her a teddy bear and comforting her on the plane. When are you going to take off?
VILES: They are going through the plane now. I still see a number of police officers on the plane who I do not believe are flying to Atlanta. So it looks like they're leaving the plane and I expect any minute that someone will ask me to turn off my cell phone. We should leave shortly.
LIN: Good enough. I know, Peter, you're covering this for us, in the skies, and when you land, we'll hear from you as soon as possible, as soon as you have anything more to share about us. Thank you very much, Peter Viles on the flight with 32-year-old Jennifer Wilbanks, the runaway bride who is now being flown home with a police escort, and lots of questions, I'm sure, by her family and friends, who are relieved to find out that she is alive. We'll have special coverage tonight as well in an 8:00 special to follow the story for you.
In the meantime we're going to take a quick break and much more news ahead. In fact, I'm going to be talking with a clinical psychologist and an FBI investigator who is on the ground in Albuquerque. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, hundreds of police and volunteers searched for Jennifer Wilbanks after her disappearance and today, some of them are reacting to the news. She vanished because she needed some time to be alone before this huge wedding extravaganza which was supposed to happen today. CNN's Denise Belgrave is out in Duluth, Georgia with more on that.
Denise, what are people saying, the people who invested so much time and effort into trying to find this woman? DENISE BELGRAVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, one person today described what this town has been through as emotional whiplash. This town literally spent three days literally spent three searching for Jennifer. That search included canine teams and also included swift boat search and rescue squads and more than 10 volunteers who went out for three days in a row, and searched a five-mile square radius area. One of the people we talked to today explained how he felt when he heard the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AERIK RICHARDS, SEARCHER: I don't know that anger is the right word, Denise. I think that maybe betrayed, you know, that so many people were out there. That all she had to do was call one friend, one person, one family member and say you know what? I couldn't go through with it. Tell everybody I'm okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: We went to a diner today, and we talked to a bunch of people who were there, and they expressed a lot of the same sentiments. They said they could understand getting cold feet, and getting nervous about getting married, but what they could not understand is Jennifer's actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her parents have been crying, you know, she put a lot of people into stress, and I don't know if he's going to marry that woman or not. You know? That remains to be seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: Whether or not the wedding is going to go on or not is not a primary concern right now. Jennifer's pastor, Alan Jones, really summed up what everybody thinks the priority needs to be right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Sure, we were all disappointed, maybe a little embarrassed, but you know what? If you remember all the interviews yesterday, we were praying, at this point, let her be a runaway bride, so God was faithful, and Jennifer's alive and we're all thankful for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELGRAVE: And certainly, no matter how upset or how angry people are, I think pretty much everybody agrees that they're relieved that she was found alive -- Carol.
LIN: You bet. Anybody who saw the families at that news conference yesterday, everyone's heart went out to them, and indeed in that sense it is a happy ending. Denise Belgrave, thank you very much. Well, the FBI interviewed Jennifer Wilbanks after she made that 911 call in Albuquerque. Bill Elwell, the spokesman for the FBI's Albuquerque office joins me now.
Bill, this national story landed right in your lap. What was your reaction when you found out who this young woman was?
BILL ELWELL, FBI SPOKESMAN: Well, after being called by the Albuquerque police department and them discovering she had made the 911 call, the agents in the office all the way from our special agent in charge, Andreas Stephens (ph) were relieved that first of all she was alive and well.
After we started the interviews and started to discover what the final story was, well, of course we were even more relieved that we didn't have a violent act that had culminated in her being in Albuquerque.
LIN: It's a very sensitive situation. Here your officers joining in on the questioning of this young woman are thinking they're going into one situation, right, a kidnapping of a young woman found alive, and suddenly, it evolves over hours of questioning. Give me the specifics of how that kind of questioning is conducted.
ELWELL: Well, the Albuquerque FBI agents that were involved in this, in this investigation were from our violent crimes squad, and many of them are trained, as are the Albuquerque police department violent crime detectives, in techniques that allow maybe the victim to basically tell us what exactly has transpired, and then if you get a situation like this, they allow them an out, possibly, to be able to maybe correct their statement, maybe to come one the actual situation that did transpire, and that's what happened here.
LIN: What was the turning point? What was the turning point in that conversation?
ELWELL: I think at one point, one of the interviewers, I don't know whether it was one of the police officers or one of the agents, made a remark about "maybe we should discontinue trying to look for a certain vehicle," and at that point, she realized that maybe we should discontinue that and what she did is, she had gained a rapport with one of the female agents that was in on the interview and asked if she could talk to a couple of the agents by themselves and the Albuquerque police officers said by all means. When they left the room they said things are going to change very drastically and they briefed us what was probably going to happen was that she was going to change her story.
LIN: That all of a sudden she just got tired of the lie. Specifically the agents asked, should we continue looking for a blue van?
ELWELL: That is correct.
LIN: And so are you imaging that at that point, she was imagining the resources that were going to go into trying to hunt down a lie, essentially?
ELWELL: Well, you know, everyone has a conscience and I think at that point, she had dealt with a stressful situation, even having to call 911, had not dealt with it correctly, and now, after she had become more relaxed, the very experienced officers and special agents involved in the interview had given her an opportunity to take an out, and she took it, and it's just basically training on the part of some very good interviewers.
LIN: Very, very sensitive, because obviously, they had no idea what she might have gone through, whether she was assaulted or really kidnapped or what her state of mind was. Good job on the part of those officers. Thanks very much, Bill Elwell with the Albuquerque office of the FBI.
In the meantime, we are marking an important occasion here at CNN. Thirty years ago today, Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese Army. Up next I'll speak with one of the marines who was there helping to get people out before the communist army moved in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: People from all over the country are visiting the wall to pay tribute to the troops who died in Vietnam. Many there are Vietnam vets who fought on the front lines with their fallen comrades. Joining me live from the memorial is Mike Dalrymple, he was a 19-year- old marine corporal serving in Vietnam as Americans were being evacuated from Saigon. This has to be a very sentimental journey for you indeed today, mike. I'm just wondering, when you went to the Wall today, who specifically are you remembering on this anniversary?
MIKE DALRYMPLE, SERVED IN VIETNAM: Charles McMahon and Darwin Judge. They were the last two marines killed in Vietnam.
LIN: And friends of yours?
DALRYMPLE: I have friends out here. They were not friends of mine per se, but they were the embassy guards, last of the security.
LIN: You were actually working the embassy. You were helping with the airlifts out.
DALRYMPLE: Yes, I was in charge of landing zone 35 inside the compound, and the evacuation started, and I was actually putting the refugees on the helicopters that were going out to the ships.
LIN: At one point, Mike, there were 3,000 people inside that embassy compound, all of them desperate to leave the country. It was heartbreaking, by all accounts. Almost an act of God of who was able to get on those helicopters and who was not. Tell me what it was like to be there, and what your role was as we watched these people try to board ships and planes to escape this war zone.
DALRYMPLE: At the compound, I was loading the CH-53 choppers with the refugees, and there was a quantity of 70 to 80 that were allowed, and in fact, even one time, they overran me and there was about 120, but they took off anyways with 120 people. So it was hurry up, push, and get out. It was panic.
LIN: Did you -- Right.
DALRYMPLE: Did I what?
LIN: Did you keep in touch with any of the people who did make it out?
DALRYMPLE: I did get a call from my lieutenant, Bruce Thompson Bauer (ph) approximately two years ago, and then I did make contact with a friend of mine who is here with me today, a Lance Corporal jimmy Sanchez (ph).
LIN: And how did those conversations go?
DALRYMPLE: It's been great. We talked about a lot, and what happened, and he was in another area over at the embassy compound, and he was telling me the stories that he had, from his area, and what I had from my area and we've been putting it all together. Just a lot of heartache that we've seen.
LIN: Yeah. When you look at something like that event in retrospect, where there were life or death decisions and you were 19 years old, what has come out of your memories of that day?
DALRYMPLE: My memory of that day, it would be that I got as many out as I could before I had to leave. And I felt good about myself for doing it.
LIN: It sounds to me like you've spent a lot of time thinking about the people that you couldn't help then.
DALRYMPLE: It does, yes, so true. It takes to an incident where a saw a lady leave her baby at the embassy gates and take off running back to the city, and that was during the baby airlift that that's very hard to understand, but the baby got where she wanted the baby to go.
LIN: My God, the sacrifice that people made on that day.
DALRYMPLE: Yes. Yes.
LIN: The name. Vietnam veteran. When people say it today, in 2005, what do you think comes to mind?
DALRYMPLE: The bad war. The people -- that wrongly came out from people, and people being judged as drug addicts, which is the saddest thing ever. They were there doing a job for America, and they come home to disgrace.
LIN: Not much has changed. And for you, Mike, what are you doing these days?
DALRYMPLE: Me, I'm a quality assurance manager. I've got three sons and three grandchildren. They live in La Puente, California. And I'm still trying to get a hold of my former fellow Marines that I served with, the 40 that we were with.
LIN: Wow. Mike Dalrymple, pleasure to meet you. You know what? So many people in your office, I bet they sit by you every day and they have no idea the amazing story that lives inside you. Thanks so much for being with us today.
DALRYMPLE: Thank you.
LIN: 58,000 Americans died in that war. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Now, back to our top story. Jennifer Wilbanks, the runaway bride. She is wearing a towel instead of a veil on her head right now. Wilbanks made national headlines this week when she vanished just days before her wedding. You're looking at pictures of her walking through the Albuquerque airport, about to board a flight that will take her back to the Atlanta area.
She turned up in New Mexico overnight, and she in this video, was taken -- this video was taken as police were escorting her to that plane.
Now, Wilbanks first told authorities she had been abducted, but police say she later admitted she just couldn't handle the pressure of her large wedding, and hopped on a bus to Las Vegas. And then she took another bus to Albuquerque, New Mexico, and from there she called 911, seemingly sobbing and hysterical.
Now, back in Georgia, Wilbanks' family rejoiced at the news that she had been found safe and sound, but the celebration later turned into shock when her story changed. A district attorney in Georgia says he wants to review statements Wilbanks made to police and the FBI before deciding whether to file criminal charges.
Now, earlier today, I talked with a spokeswoman, the spokeswoman for the Albuquerque Police Department. She was seen escorting Wilbanks to the airplane. And I asked her if she thought Jennifer Wilbanks was embarrassed after changing her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRISH AHRENSFIELD, ALBUQUERQUE, NM POLICE: I can't speak for her, but I'm sure she's going through a lot of emotions. I'm sure she, again, she really wants to speak to her family first, and she has stated that she would like to then give a more formal statement when she returns home.
LIN: All right. At what point, Officer Ahrensfield, was it pretty clear that Jennifer Wilbanks was not a kidnapping victim?
AHRENSFIELD: It was clear to the detectives at some point during the interview. They even stated that they believed that she had more things to tell, and at that point, she herself decided to also tell the truth.
LIN: Could you be more specific?
AHRENSFIELD: I think it goes back to the expertise of the detectives, knowing what kind of questions to ask, knowing when to ask more questions. At one point, the detectives stated, "can we stop looking for the blue van?" And she said yes. That's a big indicator that there was no van. And so that was a big clue. And then she also stated that with the stress of everything, and her own statements were the stress of the wedding and all the planning, that she needed some time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: You can see more of my interview with Officer Trish Ahrensfield at 8:00 Eastern, as she goes into more detail of what happened on their end.
In the meantime, Jennifer Wilbanks' actions have many people scratching their heads today. But counselors say the stress of the huge wedding and the fear of disappointing her family may, may explain why she took off.
Judy Kuransky, a clinical psychologist with Columbia University, joins me now, better known as Dr. Judy.
Dr. Judy, let me go over some of the terms we've been using, or hearing today about this young woman, all right, to describe her state of mind. Overstressed, all right?
DR. JUDY KURANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
LIN: Narcissistic.
KURANSKY: Yes, selfish.
LIN: Selfish. Maybe even crazy.
KURANSKY: Yes, well, could have had a break. Yes, what else?
LIN: So what do you think?
KURANSKY: I think she had so much stress about this that she reached a point really of regression. We've seen her being covered in this way, with this little blanket. Kids know what it's like to have a blankey with you. She probably came with that from home, because she had a bag on her...
(CROSSTALK)
LIN: The towel, the striped towel that's over her head?
KURANSKY: Yes. Right, exactly.
LIN: Right now.
KURANSKY: And then we hear that the police gave her a teddy bear, and they were whispering comforting words to her. Well, I spent a lot of time working with people under trauma. And so you, what you want to do is give them teddy bears. We used to do that to all the kids and adults, by the way, after 9/11, because in that kind of stress, teddy bears are comforting. They're what we call a transitional object that makes you feel safe.
And so I think she was regressing. Now, look at the story, Carol, that she came up with. An abduction. How many times on the news have we heard lately even about little girls being abducted, being snatched from their home and taken far away? And so under stress, she came up with the same story that happens to little girls. And so I think under terrific stress, she regressed to this very young age and this really kind of regressive behavior.
LIN: All right, so does that -- because I was going to ask you, what kind of person comes up with this detailed, sinister plot of a kidnapping, with descriptions of the suspect, versus, look, I just can't handle this big wedding and we all need to talk, or just someone who just runs away, you know?
KURANSKY: Well, I think that's what -- the stress made her go back to a childhood feeling of being unsafe and being frightened and being scared and overwhelmed, and no one in the family was able obviously to talk with her. She wasn't able to share with anyone else, and you look over....
LIN: Dr. Judy, this is a wedding! It's a wedding!
KURANSKY: Yes.
LIN: I mean, it's not like, you know, it's not like, I don't know, I'm going to reach here, the death of a child, or -- it was a wedding. It was supposed to be a special, happy occasion, the beginning of this new life with this man.
KURANSKY: Yes, but Carol, if you look at some of the research, we have a scale of the impact of events, and even positive events cause stress. You add them all up, and the person can have a break.
A wedding can be equal to even -- I know people are going to be shocked about this -- the losing of someone, moving away, having a baby. All these things add just to the pressure. They could be good or they could feel bad.
What really is sad here is that, unfortunately, this woman, this 32-year-old woman, who regressed to a child and acted in this way, has done a really negative thing for women's rights, for families everywhere, because she made up a story. Now, a lot of people are not going to believe many of these stories now from here to forward. You'll hear all kinds of things about this one being taken or that one. And so there is really a sad story here for the future of women being believed.
LIN: Well, OK, let's get back to this woman's condition. I mean, so you're saying that she's in a state of regression. Our Peter Viles, who is on the same flight that this woman is on, has described her by telephone as being curled up in a fetal position. The cops gave her a teddy bear. She's got this towel over her head. I mean, is she...
KURANSKY: There you go.
LIN: Is she gone?
KURANSKY: There you go.
LIN: Is she just not with us right now?
KURANSKY: Well, that -- there you go. You see, she's curled up in a fetal position. She's back to being a child, being absolutely into that frightened state. It's going to take a long time for her to recover from this. I think she needs to be in a safe environment, in probably a rehab center, because this is a serious behavior. Just a little interview here and there, one psychologist session once a week is not really going to do it. I think they need family therapy, because obviously she was not communicating with the family. They had no idea what was going on, they even said. It's going to take a long time for her to recover from this, especially with all the media attention. It's going to be very hard for her to form a new relationship. I'm not so sure that it's going to really last with the bridegroom. He's going to be -- he's under tremendous pressure now...
LIN: What should he do? I mean, do you think he should take her back? Should he give her a second chance?
KURANSKY: Well, you know, he looks like a very gracious young man. He's a man -- he's a guy of faith, and so he's offered her forgiveness, but it's going to take a lot for him. He would have to have a heart of gold to really be able to think of this, because I would suspect the way she is right now, he would be worrying like we all would be that if she has a -- when she has a child, if somebody dies, at any point...
LIN: Stress point, yeah.
KURANSKY: ... that kind of behavior, which is to run instead of speak up, share and face what the pressure is. So this would not be a woman who is ready to get married again very soon.
LIN: All right, clearly. All right, Dr. Judy Kuransky, thank you very much for joining us with some insight. It's a private topic, but obviously the family had asked the media for assistance in trying to find this woman, and at least the publicity perhaps may have played a part in that.
Thanks very much, Dr. Judy Kuransky.
We are devoting a special hour to this strange story later today. So pleasure be sure to tune in for "Runaway Bride: Jennifer Wilbanks" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific right here on CNN.
Well, is baseball about to get a lot tougher on athletes who use steroids? Up next, the new rules being proposed by baseball's commissioner. Plus, the issue is not just a problem for male athletes. Why girls as young as in the fourth grade are turning to the illegal substances, and what parents can do about it. I'm going to talk with a doctor when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Bowing to increased pressure, Major League Baseball is calling for tougher penalties for steroid abuse. Commissioner Bud Selig sent a letter to the president of the players' association yesterday, outlining the proposed penalties. First-time offenders would be banned from 50 games; 100 games for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third violation. The players' association has yet to respond to the proposal. Congress has threatened to enact legislation if baseball doesn't clean up its act.
And steroid abuse is not a problem among men or even athletes alone. If you can believe it, more and more teenage girls, even young girls, preteens, are juicing up. And many are doing it to get the toned, sculptured looks of movie stars, like Hilary Swank in the blockbuster hit "Million Dollar Baby," getting that six-pack in their abs.
So how prevalent is this abuse, and how dangerous is it to young girls? Joining me now is Dr. Linn Goldberg, a professor at Oregon Health and Science University, to talk about this. Dr. Goldberg, you have actually met a lot of these young -- I don't even want to call them women. You know, they're girls, right? They're teenage girls, but some, in several publications -- in fact, a recent government study showed that girls as young as 9 are using steroids to get a more sculpted look.
DR. LINN GOLDBERG, OREGON HEALTH & SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: Well, that's true. The Centers for Disease Control said that there -- that over 5 percent of girls, and that's not just athletes, but girls, have used or are using those substances. And that's odd, because these are the male hormone, related to the male hormone testosterone, which imparts a lot of male characteristics.
LIN: Right, so what happens to these girls? I mean, what's their incentive for taking it?
GOLDBERG: Well, if you take smaller doses, because women don't make much, so if you take small doses, you'll be able to look more muscular, or you'll get that six-pack abs, or be able to participate in sports, they're performance-enhancing, so they'll play more like a male than like a young woman.
LIN: So how do they get a hold of it?
GOLDBERG: Well, if you go on the Internet and ask for "buy steroids," you'll get about 1.2 million hits. And people can buy them over the Internet. They get them from friends. You know, there've been recent reports of bringing it up through Mexico, from Connecticut to Texas. So they're readily available to young people.
LIN: And how literally does the body change? I mean, what should the parents be looking for?
GOLDBERG: Well, it could change them emotionally and physically, but emotionally, what can happen, they may become more emotional, a little more aggressive. Women probably less than young males. But after prolonged use, they can get voice deepening. They can get even facial hair. So those are some physiologic changes, and then acne can be much more severe.
LIN: But girls as young as 9? Does that make sense to you?
GOLDBERG: Well, we haven't seen that. And in fact, we don't deal with that age group. We usually deal with the high school population. We've been following this for over a decade-and-a-half, and that's why we developed the ATHENA program, which prevents steroid use and other body-shaping drugs, including diet pills, diuretics, laxatives, which seem to all go together.
LIN: OK, so that girl, or girls, these young women, are watching you right now, Dr. Goldberg, what do you have to say to them?
GOLDBERG: Well, I think the problem is they're gender-bender drugs, and they can permanently change you. We don't know how emotionally that permanence would be, but they can change you physiologically and turn you into a male. In fact, there's one East German athlete, very famous, Heidi Krieger, now known as Andreas Krieger, because it changed her so much, with facial hair and a difference in structure, that she now is identified as a male.
LIN: That is crazy. All right, well, a University of Michigan professor who heads up this annual government-sponsored survey on risky behavior says that other than pedophilia, this is the most secret behavior he's ever encountered, steroid use amongst young girls.
GOLDBERG: Absolutely.
LIN: Dr. Linn Goldberg, thank you very much.
Well, a Big Apple landmark is getting a $350 million makeover. So why does the upgrade mean dozens of workers have to hit the unemployment line? That story next.
But first, here's Al Hunt to tell us what's ahead on "THE CAPITAL GANG." Al?
AL HUNT, CO-HOST, CAPITAL GANG: "THE CAPITAL GANG" looks at President Bush going prime-time on Social Security, Republicans opening a way for an investigation of Tom DeLay, looking at the showdown on judicial filibusters. Plus, a preview of next week's British election. All that and much more next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: A New York landmark is about to close its doors. The Plaza Hotel is shutting down for the next 18 months to undergo a massive renovation. This week, tourists and Plaza regulars visited the hotel to take one final look before the building goes under the knife. It's an operation some employees won't survive, including one of the hotel's living legends. CNN's Alina Cho reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If 98-year-old Plaza Hotel is an institution, so is Ed Trinka. Trinka has been working at the Plaza for 42 years, most of them as a doorman.
ED TRINKA, PLAZA DOORMAN: The first people that I really saw were when the Beatles came to town, and they were on "The Ed Sullivan Show." And all the girls out here, everybody going crazy.
CHO: He was 18 then. He's now 61, and he's seen a lot over the years, including the famous.
TRINKA: Cary Grant, Audrey Hepburn, the Lone Ranger Clayton Moore.
CHO: And the not-so-famous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the gift store open?
TRINKA: Yes, sir. Go right in, around to your left. It's like my own place. Here I am. Central Park, horse and wagons, people, never stops.
CHO: The scene of legendary films like "The Way We Were" and "North by Northwest."
CARY GRANT, ACTOR: Perhaps if I sent her a telegram?
CHO: Where celebrities get married and the well-heeled have high tea.
Now the Plaza's new owners are closing the hotel for an 18-month, $350 million renovation.
The landmark exterior won't be touched. Three hundred fifty of the 800 rooms will stay hotel rooms, but the remaining rooms, all of them with views of Central Park, will become luxury condominiums.
Many hotel workers are losing their jobs. Trinka is taking a severance package.
TRINKA: I told a lot of the younger fellows in all this that, you know, it's not the end of the world. There is life after the Plaza, and you have to carry on. That's all. And that's it.
CHO (on camera): And what's your life after the Plaza?
TRINKA: Well, I get two little granddaughters, 2 and 4. I'll be playing with them a lot more now.
CHO: That job may be harder, right?
TRINKA: Yes, that's one there. That might be harder, yeah.
CHO (voice-over): Rick and Robin Rinsler (ph) have been staying at the Plaza for years. They came for their 21st wedding anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we thought we'd feel like we're going down with the Titanic.
CHO: 7-year-old Sophia Higgins (ph) came to see Eloise, the storybook girl who lives at the Plaza.
(on camera): You think she lives here? Where do you think she is right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm note sure, maybe in the elevator.
CHO (voice-over): Trinka calls it...
TRINKA: Thanks for your concern. God bless you.
CHO: ... the end of an era.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That's all the time we have for this hour, but coming up next on THE CAPITAL GANG, stay tuned for them, because then at 8:00 Eastern, you're going to tune into our live special on today's top story, Georgia's runaway bride. At 9:00, it's an encore presentation of "LARRY KING LIVE." Stars in the entertainment business talk about their personal battles with depression.
And I'll be back at 10:00 Eastern with a check of the hour's headlines, and then THE CAPITAL GANG.
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