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American Morning

Two Girls Killed; School Bus Safety; Fast-Food Tax

Aired May 10, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.

We showed you these pictures on Monday. Take a look. Police opening fire on a suspect in Compton, California.

Well, now some pretty tough questions are being asked. The man apparently unarmed. His SUV apparently stopped. We talk this morning with the L.A. County sheriff about his investigation now.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, here's an idea from the mayor of Detroit: balance the city's budget by taxing your fast food. Will it happen? Will it work? Is it right? We'll talk to the mayor in a few moments and try to get some answers for you.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's got the "Question of the Day."

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Terrible idea...

HEMMER: We'll see.

CAFFERTY: ... because it's a tax on the poor people, right?

Speaking of terrible ideas, beginning today, the federal government is providing $1 billion in funding to the states to help cover the costs of free emergency medical care for illegal aliens. Huge burden on the states. California spends $500 million a year on emergency medical care for illegal aliens.

Do you think that's a wise expenditure of the taxpayers' dollar? AM@CNN.com. We're getting a ton of mail. It's a hot-button, emotional issue. Interesting stuff.

O'BRIEN: Yes, no surprise there.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines with Carol Costello.

Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News," at least seven people have been killed in a new wave of attacks in Baghdad. Police say the first attack was a suicide mission aimed at U.S. military convoy. That explosion also wounded 14 people. Less than two hours later, a second car bomb near a bridge. No word yet on casualties here.

The U.S. Marine Corps denies it's recalling bulletproof vests because of defects. Experts cited in "The Marine Corps Times" and "USA Today," said some 10,000 vests did not hold up under testing. The Marines say they disagree but went ahead and recalled 5,000 vests, saying it was done to ease the minds of Marines out in the field.

A shootout in the Los Angeles area caught on tape raising more questions this morning. The Los Angeles County sheriff now says more than 100 shots were fired. The suspect was not even armed, and his vehicle was apparently stopped. A full investigation now under way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video has a segment that shows the vehicle stopped. The explanation that I'm receiving preliminarily is that the vehicle was moving backward toward the deputies and that the vehicle had been attempting earlier, prior to that stopped position shown, to get out of that containment that it was in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We'll hear more from the sheriff in the next half- hour.

Scientists hope a new satellite could help improve weather forecasting. The 3,100-pound satellite will be launched tomorrow aboard a Boeing Delta 2 rocket. The device will collect data about the Earth's atmosphere and track climate change. It will replace the model that's been orbiting since 2000.

Plus, who needs a satellite? We have Rob Marciano. Of course he's not coming up right now, but he'll come out later. He tells us it's going to be a nice day in New York.

HEMMER: It's about time.

O'BRIEN: Seventy degrees again. And tomorrow, too.

COSTELLO: It's like heaven.

O'BRIEN: You know, I feel badly because I'm loving Rob so much right now, and Chad, it's like, OK, he's on vacation.

COSTELLO: We should send Chad away more often.

HEMMER: It's going to rain like hell on Monday.

O'BRIEN: No. Poor Chad. That would be terrible.

Thanks, Carol.

Well, Zion, Illinois, the community there just shocked. Police are now desperately trying to figure out who murdered two little girls, Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias. Their bodies were found in a park, stabbed repeatedly.

"The Chicago Tribune" this morning is report that police interviewed a relative of one of the victims and are taking clothing worn by family members. Police say, though, that they still don't have any solid leads. Serious crime virtually unheard of in this small town.

And Chris Lawrence is live for us in Zion at police headquarters with the very latest.

Chris, I've got to tell you, this story is just so horrible to hear about. No leads at this point?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, we think that may be changing, Soledad. We think that police, from what we're hearing, are making more progress in this investigation than they initially indicated when they said they had absolutely no leads.

We know they have talked to several family members, although we should point out, in a case like this, it is standard procedure to talk to people who were closest to the victims. And the police are very cognizant and very aware of how much this is terrified the other parents and kids that live here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): As late as Sunday afternoon, neighbors saw Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias riding their books through the small town of Zion. But they never came home. On Monday morning, their bodies were found in a nearby park, stabbed to death. An 8- year-old and a 9-year-old murdered.

EMILY HOLLABAUGH, LAURA'S GRANDMOTHER: I have a lot of questions, but it's just mostly rage at whoever could do this to two little girls.

LAWRENCE: Laura's grandmother says the little girls were second- graders. Their friends never had to deal with something like this.

This little girl couldn't help crying as she left some flowers where the two bodies were found.

DORA FLOREK, NEIGHBOR: I knew Krystal like she was my own daughter.

LAWRENCE: Dora Florek says neighbors saw both girls in her yard Sunday, swinging in a hammock. They were waiting to play with Dora's daughter, but finally left when she didn't come home.

FLOREK: I'm just thinking what if, if we were home. The girls would have been safe. LAWRENCE: Police say a man out for a walk discovered the bodies at this park, way off the bike path where the woods are thick. Since then, other parents have been escorting their kids to and from school. Right now, Zion police have no leads.

CHIEF DOUG MALCOLM, ZION POLICE: We do have two murdered children and we don't have anybody in custody, I'll say that.

LAWRENCE: That's why Laura's grandmother holds up her picture.

HOLLABAUGH: Find the bastards that done this. Hopefully, somebody saw him.

LAWRENCE: She couldn't finish her sentence. And so far, nobody can tell her who did this or why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And just yesterday parents were sent this letter. The school sent this letter home with all the students, letting the parents know that today the teachers are going to be talking to the kids about what happened, about this death, and trying to help them work through it.

There's also going to be a community meeting tonight where parents can ask the police some more of the questions. But a big one was answered yesterday by the coroner when he said, based on his report, that there was no evidence of any sexual assault -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It's a terrible, terrible story. Chris Lawrence, thanks for the update -- Bill

HEMMER: About six minutes now past the hour. To other news now.

How safe are children when they climb on board that school bus every morning? There's a recent string of accidents raising new concern about that issue.

There were three accidents involving school buses on Monday, one in Liberty, Missouri, another in Brockton, Massachusetts, a third in Kendall, Florida, near Miami. The worse case in Liberty, Missouri, happened when a bus slammed into two cars. Twenty-three children were hurt, two are being treated for life-threatening injuries, and two people in the cars were killed.

In Brockton, two of 17 high school students were slightly injured when their bus collided with a car there. The people in the car were seriously injured.

In the Florida case, there were no children luckily on board the bus at the time of this accident. But the two people in the car the bus hit were killed.

Alan Ross is with the National Coalition for School Bus Safety, and he says much more needs to be done to protect kids from cases like these. Alan, good morning to you. And welcome.

ALAN ROSS, BUS SAFETY EXPERT: Good morning.

HEMMER: What is the answer, though, if you don't think these buses are as safe as they could be?

ROSS: Absolutely not. Unfortunately, many parents and administrators overlook the transportation system that they trust these children to every day. And these buses behind me are woefully inadequate in protecting our children.

HEMMER: If they're so woefully inadequate, let's go to some obvious questions now. People say safety belts. Why are they not used or why are they not mandatory in every state across the country for kids?

ROSS: I believe the reason for that is simply money. They cost money to retrofit. They cost extra money to install on a bus.

And we're dealing with a school bus industry where the money is a for-profit center. The economics of the school bus industry simply haven't allowed it, and we've allowed an industry to dictate the safety standards for our children.

HEMMER: But there are three states who require them now. I think California is coming on line a bit later this year in 2005.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done extensive studies on how kids can be safe on the school bus. And they have concluded that compartmentalization is the best approach. What does that mean with the design of a schoolbus, Alan?

ROSS: Well, we like compartmentalization. What that is, it's the padding, it's the high seat backs. Padding is a good thing. But just because the dashboard in your car is padded, that's not enough.

Children in accidents often miss the padding and crash into the floor, the ceiling. The padding is a good thing, but we still need a safety restraint system on every school bus.

HEMMER: Well, back to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration -- NTSA we call it for short -- this is what they say also with regard to the seatbelt issue. "An analysis of test data has concluded that lap belts appear to have little, if any, benefit in reducing serious-to-fatal injuries in severe frontal crashes."

Do you agree with that statement based on the studies you've done?

ROSS: Absolutely not. And unfortunately, NTSA, a federal agency, is subjected to millions of dollars of lobbying by the school bus industry. And I've been very disappointed with this federal agency.

They are toting the industry line. It doesn't take a million- dollar study to realize why every adult buckles up every time they enter a passenger vehicle.

HEMMER: In fairness to NTSA, though, we went to them and they directed us right to their Web site. And their Web site is extensive, too. They offer this, too, online: "American students," it says, "are nearly eight times safer riding in a school bus than with their own parents and guardians in cars."

And although we talked about this string of incidents on Monday, is it not a fact that with so many thousands of kids every day on the school buses it's remarkable they arrive as safe as they do?

ROSS: I disagree with that statistic. We've looked at it, and it's not a valid statistic.

I believe children are actually safer in a modern automobile with all the safety features and an experienced driver. Statistics, they can be manipulated and twisted any which way you want. And what we see now is a diminishment in the actual ridership (ph) across the country because many parents are realizing that the school bus is not as safe as it should be.

HEMMER: And your issue is money, apparently, too, listening to you talk. Alan Ross -- we'll continue to watch it -- Litchfield, Connecticut. Thanks for sharing your thoughts this morning with us here.

ROSS: Thank you.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Time to get a check of the forecast this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: In a moment here, a follow-up on that controversial fast-food tax in Detroit. Critics say the mayor's plan is unfair to the poor. How does he answer that question? We'll ask him in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also, Dr. Gupta searches for some evidence in "House Call." He's going to tell us how the hit show "CSI Miami" stacks up to the real world.

HEMMER: Also, meet the miserable millionaire. Oh, the issues. A Florida man finally giving up the fight for his own peaceful piece of swamp land. That story still to come this hour as we continue live in New York after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: An extra ingredient may soon be added to your Big Mac or Whopper in Detroit, taxes. Detroit's mayor is thinking about adding a tax just for fast food.

And Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick is here with us this morning.

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us. Why did you pick fast foods to target?

MAYOR KWAME M. KILPATRICK, DETROIT, MICHIGAN: Nice to see you.

Well, we had a Detroit economic forum where we looked at revenue sources. We looked at 19 different sources of revenue.

I mean, the city is crash-strapped. All the cities across America are. And we deduced it down to a couple different choices, and this was one that we thought would be least intrusive to our citizens.

Plus, we're offering a property tax cut as well. And we needed a way to replace that revenue. So we wanted to remove the burden on our citizens on one hand, but find the revenue to replace it. And we thought fast food was a logical choice; it's least intrusive, it's a choice tax.

O'BRIEN: But there are so many people, as you well know, who say you're taxing the poorest people. Poorest people are the ones who often eat fast food. It's the cheapest food usually.

And young people and senior citizens often eat fast food. So aren't they kind of bearing the burden of the tax problems in Detroit?

KILPATRICK: You know, it's -- I don't understand how that came to be. Because fast-food restaurants do an incredible job of marketing. Everybody eats fast food.

They do as well in the suburban communities as they do in the urban communities. I don't think it's a -- it's a poverty level type of thing. I think that people eat fast food who want it.

And we're looking at the dollars that it brings into the city, $17 million. Hopefully it encourage (ph) some people even to 2 percent. What we're saying is 2 percent.

So if you have a Happy Meal, that's $1.99. That would be $2.03. So it won't be oppressive to anyone. I mean, if they can afford it at $1.99, they can afford it at $2.03.

O'BRIEN: Why not liquor tax, why not cigarette tax?

KILPATRICK: In Michigan, those are state taxes, liquor and cigarettes. Cigarette taxes were just raised by our governor. The tobacco companies have set up shop in Michigan, and they don't want to see another increase. It would be incredibly tough for us to do that locally. There's no local tax on that now.

O'BRIEN: As you know, "TIME" magazine wrote an article where they said you're one of the country's worst mayors. Is this a result of that? I mean, are you trying to answer the critics? And a lot of what their criticism was about the finances in Detroit and about the fiscal situation there.

KILPATRICK: Right. Well, actually, none of their criticism was about the fiscal situation. It was about some personal issues with me.

O'BRIEN: Well, the budget overall.

KILPATRICK: Yes. But that wasn't -- they never really came to Detroit and talked to us. We've managed our budget well.

You know, a few days later, "Inc." magazine called me the mayor of the year and the most innovative in the country. So we like "Inc." in Detroit better than "TIME."

But I would say that it's not -- it has nothing to do with that. We have what other cities in America are facing.

People in this economic crisis, cities are at the bottom of the hill. And we need to find a way to put revenue back into cities. Cities can't sell off parts of the city, we can't -- we can't give out stock options. We have to find a way to raise revenue and cut at the same time. We're doing both.

O'BRIEN: So the folks have to vote on this before it becomes legislation?

KILPATRICK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Do you think actually it's going to -- it's going to pass?

KILPATRICK: I think it has a very strong chance of passing, because Detroit is getting a property tax cut. And I think that's the biggest thing.

We're overburdened with property taxes because of how we fund education in Michigan and the cap coming off of our taxes when property changes hands. And this allows people to take a property tax cut. But we have to replace that revenue some way. And it's a logical choice to go to fast food because it's not oppressive.

O'BRIEN: A drop in the bucket, though, $17 million of your $300 million deficit.

KILPATRICK: Exactly. Which is why I don't understand all the fuss.

I mean, our biggest cost, our pension and health benefits, we're paying $177 more this year in pension benefits than we did three years ago and $80 million more in health benefits. So the biggest net in how we're reducing our $300 million problem is renegotiating both of those things, which are well under way.

This is a, you know, small hold to get increased revenue in the city of Detroit so we don't have to revisit this situation again.

O'BRIEN: Well, we will see how it goes over with the folks in Detroit. Kwame Kilpatrick, thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.

KILPATRICK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. In a moment here, CNN celebrating 25 years on the air. June 1 is the day, in fact. Getting a little help this time from "Jeopardy." And the host, Alex Trebek, fills us in on the game show's special CNN week. That's up after the break.

Back with Jack, too, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: "Jeopardy" is helping CNN celebrate 25 years on the air with a week of shows, including questions about CNN. It started last night, night number one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN, 1200.

ALEX TREBEK, HOST, "JEOPARDY": Take a look.

NANCY GRACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. I'm Nancy Grace, with CNN Headline News. As a former Fulton County prosecutor, I went to the scene in this city to cover the deadly shootings in the same courtroom where I prosecuted felony cases.

TREBEK: Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is Atlanta?

TREBEK: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN, 1600.

TREBEK: Take a look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Alex Trebek is now my guest out in L.A.

How are you? Good morning to you.

TREBEK: I'm well, Bill. And I'm very happy to be with you today.

HEMMER: Listen, I am a fan of your show and have been for years, maybe even decades, as a matter of fact. Because you've been on it for so long, too. How did this idea come together with CNN?

TREBEK: I'm not too sure, but, you know, "Jeopardy's" has been on the air now 21 years, you guys have been on 25. And in two of our celebrity tournaments, our power players week tournaments that we have done in Washington, D.C., we've had a number of your CNN cohorts as contestants on the program, and they have all done pretty well. So it was a natural combination for us to want to do this, to help you guys celebrate 25 years.

HEMMER: Well, listen, we're doing 21, we're doing 25. How do you go through 25 years of history and come up with questions?

TREBEK: Well, we have a very talented group of writers. They've won I don't know how many Emmys now. And they work year-round, and they go over -- people ask me, "Well, where do you get your material? Where do you get your clues?" Encyclopedias.

We watch television, we watch CNN. We know what's in the news. We get some of your people to help us do clues.

We stay on top of things. Plus, we deal with the history of the world. So there's a lot of material out there available to us.

HEMMER: Yes. How do you get ready for that show, by the way? I'm listening to you rattle off all these names and I'm thinking you had to proofread it at some point.

TREBEK: No, I drink a lot.

HEMMER: That's the key, huh?

TREBEK: No. I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning at our studios in Culver City, and at 8:00 I get the game selection for that day.

Five games are selected. And I start going over the material. We then have a roundtable discussion with the producer and the writers at about 10:00. At noon, I'm in the studio getting made up and start taping the first show. And I'm done about 5:30, 6:00.

HEMMER: Now, do you fashion -- are you a history aficionado? Or is there a particular area that you find the most interesting?

TREBEK: American history. The Civil War is of particular interest to me. But I'm interested in all subjects, not only history, but science, entertainment.

I'm not what you would call one of those individuals who gets really deep into specific things, although I have in the past. At one time I would have done extremely well on any kind of a quiz show if all the questions had to do with Spanish bullfighting. But I'm beyond that now.

HEMMER: They haven't made that show yet, have they?

TREBEK: No.

HEMMER: We'll keep watching. Thanks, Alex.

TREBEK: Well, I hope so.

HEMMER: Indeed, we will. Thanks. And it's good to have this cooperative effort, too, "Jeopardy" and CNN all week. Thanks, Alex.

O'BRIEN: Let's get to the "Question of the Day and Jack.

I was trying to frame that in a "Jeopardy"-type question, but I'm sick and tired and couldn't do it. I tried, though.

CAFFERTY: And it wouldn't help.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: It's good to know...

CAFFERTY: It's kind of a lame deal.

O'BRIEN: If I had done it you wouldn't have been able to answer it.

CAFFERTY: No, I probably wouldn't have.

Beginning today, the federal government -- that would be us, the taxpayers -- are going to pay hospitals and doctor a billion dollars over the next three years to provide free emergency medical care to illegal immigrants. States asked for the money providing free medical care for illegals is a burden, a large one.

California spends $500 million a year on free medical care for illegal aliens. And this all happens, of course, at a time when 47 million of our own citizens have no health insurance, and in many case no access to health care because they can't afford it.

The question is this: should the government pay hospitals and doctors to provide emergency medical care free to illegal immigrants?

Brian in New Hampshire writes, "Of course not, that's all I can say. I would like to be more eloquent, but this has left me struggling for words."

Wayne in Pennsylvania, "Well, that's great, we can set aside taxpayer money to pay to give illegal immigrants hospitalization, but we can't set aside money to pay the IOUs that the government has on our Social Security."

Michael writes, "This is a good example of why we need conservative judges appointed."

And Lois in Washington writes, "Jack, yes, the situation is absurd. But Congress won't do anything until all of the anger expressed in the e-mails your receiving is sent to those in a position to do something about the situation. Let all of your viewers send their emails to Congress and the president."

HEMMER: Lois is on to something. Thank you, Jack.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Well, after years of fighting, a Florida man gives up his legal fight over 160 acres of swamp land. Well, now he's got $5 million for that, and he says he's a whole lot more miserable. We'll explain his situation ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired May 10, 2005 - 08:59   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.

We showed you these pictures on Monday. Take a look. Police opening fire on a suspect in Compton, California.

Well, now some pretty tough questions are being asked. The man apparently unarmed. His SUV apparently stopped. We talk this morning with the L.A. County sheriff about his investigation now.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, here's an idea from the mayor of Detroit: balance the city's budget by taxing your fast food. Will it happen? Will it work? Is it right? We'll talk to the mayor in a few moments and try to get some answers for you.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty's got the "Question of the Day."

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Terrible idea...

HEMMER: We'll see.

CAFFERTY: ... because it's a tax on the poor people, right?

Speaking of terrible ideas, beginning today, the federal government is providing $1 billion in funding to the states to help cover the costs of free emergency medical care for illegal aliens. Huge burden on the states. California spends $500 million a year on emergency medical care for illegal aliens.

Do you think that's a wise expenditure of the taxpayers' dollar? AM@CNN.com. We're getting a ton of mail. It's a hot-button, emotional issue. Interesting stuff.

O'BRIEN: Yes, no surprise there.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the headlines with Carol Costello.

Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News," at least seven people have been killed in a new wave of attacks in Baghdad. Police say the first attack was a suicide mission aimed at U.S. military convoy. That explosion also wounded 14 people. Less than two hours later, a second car bomb near a bridge. No word yet on casualties here.

The U.S. Marine Corps denies it's recalling bulletproof vests because of defects. Experts cited in "The Marine Corps Times" and "USA Today," said some 10,000 vests did not hold up under testing. The Marines say they disagree but went ahead and recalled 5,000 vests, saying it was done to ease the minds of Marines out in the field.

A shootout in the Los Angeles area caught on tape raising more questions this morning. The Los Angeles County sheriff now says more than 100 shots were fired. The suspect was not even armed, and his vehicle was apparently stopped. A full investigation now under way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video has a segment that shows the vehicle stopped. The explanation that I'm receiving preliminarily is that the vehicle was moving backward toward the deputies and that the vehicle had been attempting earlier, prior to that stopped position shown, to get out of that containment that it was in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We'll hear more from the sheriff in the next half- hour.

Scientists hope a new satellite could help improve weather forecasting. The 3,100-pound satellite will be launched tomorrow aboard a Boeing Delta 2 rocket. The device will collect data about the Earth's atmosphere and track climate change. It will replace the model that's been orbiting since 2000.

Plus, who needs a satellite? We have Rob Marciano. Of course he's not coming up right now, but he'll come out later. He tells us it's going to be a nice day in New York.

HEMMER: It's about time.

O'BRIEN: Seventy degrees again. And tomorrow, too.

COSTELLO: It's like heaven.

O'BRIEN: You know, I feel badly because I'm loving Rob so much right now, and Chad, it's like, OK, he's on vacation.

COSTELLO: We should send Chad away more often.

HEMMER: It's going to rain like hell on Monday.

O'BRIEN: No. Poor Chad. That would be terrible.

Thanks, Carol.

Well, Zion, Illinois, the community there just shocked. Police are now desperately trying to figure out who murdered two little girls, Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias. Their bodies were found in a park, stabbed repeatedly.

"The Chicago Tribune" this morning is report that police interviewed a relative of one of the victims and are taking clothing worn by family members. Police say, though, that they still don't have any solid leads. Serious crime virtually unheard of in this small town.

And Chris Lawrence is live for us in Zion at police headquarters with the very latest.

Chris, I've got to tell you, this story is just so horrible to hear about. No leads at this point?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, we think that may be changing, Soledad. We think that police, from what we're hearing, are making more progress in this investigation than they initially indicated when they said they had absolutely no leads.

We know they have talked to several family members, although we should point out, in a case like this, it is standard procedure to talk to people who were closest to the victims. And the police are very cognizant and very aware of how much this is terrified the other parents and kids that live here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): As late as Sunday afternoon, neighbors saw Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias riding their books through the small town of Zion. But they never came home. On Monday morning, their bodies were found in a nearby park, stabbed to death. An 8- year-old and a 9-year-old murdered.

EMILY HOLLABAUGH, LAURA'S GRANDMOTHER: I have a lot of questions, but it's just mostly rage at whoever could do this to two little girls.

LAWRENCE: Laura's grandmother says the little girls were second- graders. Their friends never had to deal with something like this.

This little girl couldn't help crying as she left some flowers where the two bodies were found.

DORA FLOREK, NEIGHBOR: I knew Krystal like she was my own daughter.

LAWRENCE: Dora Florek says neighbors saw both girls in her yard Sunday, swinging in a hammock. They were waiting to play with Dora's daughter, but finally left when she didn't come home.

FLOREK: I'm just thinking what if, if we were home. The girls would have been safe. LAWRENCE: Police say a man out for a walk discovered the bodies at this park, way off the bike path where the woods are thick. Since then, other parents have been escorting their kids to and from school. Right now, Zion police have no leads.

CHIEF DOUG MALCOLM, ZION POLICE: We do have two murdered children and we don't have anybody in custody, I'll say that.

LAWRENCE: That's why Laura's grandmother holds up her picture.

HOLLABAUGH: Find the bastards that done this. Hopefully, somebody saw him.

LAWRENCE: She couldn't finish her sentence. And so far, nobody can tell her who did this or why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And just yesterday parents were sent this letter. The school sent this letter home with all the students, letting the parents know that today the teachers are going to be talking to the kids about what happened, about this death, and trying to help them work through it.

There's also going to be a community meeting tonight where parents can ask the police some more of the questions. But a big one was answered yesterday by the coroner when he said, based on his report, that there was no evidence of any sexual assault -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It's a terrible, terrible story. Chris Lawrence, thanks for the update -- Bill

HEMMER: About six minutes now past the hour. To other news now.

How safe are children when they climb on board that school bus every morning? There's a recent string of accidents raising new concern about that issue.

There were three accidents involving school buses on Monday, one in Liberty, Missouri, another in Brockton, Massachusetts, a third in Kendall, Florida, near Miami. The worse case in Liberty, Missouri, happened when a bus slammed into two cars. Twenty-three children were hurt, two are being treated for life-threatening injuries, and two people in the cars were killed.

In Brockton, two of 17 high school students were slightly injured when their bus collided with a car there. The people in the car were seriously injured.

In the Florida case, there were no children luckily on board the bus at the time of this accident. But the two people in the car the bus hit were killed.

Alan Ross is with the National Coalition for School Bus Safety, and he says much more needs to be done to protect kids from cases like these. Alan, good morning to you. And welcome.

ALAN ROSS, BUS SAFETY EXPERT: Good morning.

HEMMER: What is the answer, though, if you don't think these buses are as safe as they could be?

ROSS: Absolutely not. Unfortunately, many parents and administrators overlook the transportation system that they trust these children to every day. And these buses behind me are woefully inadequate in protecting our children.

HEMMER: If they're so woefully inadequate, let's go to some obvious questions now. People say safety belts. Why are they not used or why are they not mandatory in every state across the country for kids?

ROSS: I believe the reason for that is simply money. They cost money to retrofit. They cost extra money to install on a bus.

And we're dealing with a school bus industry where the money is a for-profit center. The economics of the school bus industry simply haven't allowed it, and we've allowed an industry to dictate the safety standards for our children.

HEMMER: But there are three states who require them now. I think California is coming on line a bit later this year in 2005.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done extensive studies on how kids can be safe on the school bus. And they have concluded that compartmentalization is the best approach. What does that mean with the design of a schoolbus, Alan?

ROSS: Well, we like compartmentalization. What that is, it's the padding, it's the high seat backs. Padding is a good thing. But just because the dashboard in your car is padded, that's not enough.

Children in accidents often miss the padding and crash into the floor, the ceiling. The padding is a good thing, but we still need a safety restraint system on every school bus.

HEMMER: Well, back to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration -- NTSA we call it for short -- this is what they say also with regard to the seatbelt issue. "An analysis of test data has concluded that lap belts appear to have little, if any, benefit in reducing serious-to-fatal injuries in severe frontal crashes."

Do you agree with that statement based on the studies you've done?

ROSS: Absolutely not. And unfortunately, NTSA, a federal agency, is subjected to millions of dollars of lobbying by the school bus industry. And I've been very disappointed with this federal agency.

They are toting the industry line. It doesn't take a million- dollar study to realize why every adult buckles up every time they enter a passenger vehicle.

HEMMER: In fairness to NTSA, though, we went to them and they directed us right to their Web site. And their Web site is extensive, too. They offer this, too, online: "American students," it says, "are nearly eight times safer riding in a school bus than with their own parents and guardians in cars."

And although we talked about this string of incidents on Monday, is it not a fact that with so many thousands of kids every day on the school buses it's remarkable they arrive as safe as they do?

ROSS: I disagree with that statistic. We've looked at it, and it's not a valid statistic.

I believe children are actually safer in a modern automobile with all the safety features and an experienced driver. Statistics, they can be manipulated and twisted any which way you want. And what we see now is a diminishment in the actual ridership (ph) across the country because many parents are realizing that the school bus is not as safe as it should be.

HEMMER: And your issue is money, apparently, too, listening to you talk. Alan Ross -- we'll continue to watch it -- Litchfield, Connecticut. Thanks for sharing your thoughts this morning with us here.

ROSS: Thank you.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Time to get a check of the forecast this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: In a moment here, a follow-up on that controversial fast-food tax in Detroit. Critics say the mayor's plan is unfair to the poor. How does he answer that question? We'll ask him in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also, Dr. Gupta searches for some evidence in "House Call." He's going to tell us how the hit show "CSI Miami" stacks up to the real world.

HEMMER: Also, meet the miserable millionaire. Oh, the issues. A Florida man finally giving up the fight for his own peaceful piece of swamp land. That story still to come this hour as we continue live in New York after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: An extra ingredient may soon be added to your Big Mac or Whopper in Detroit, taxes. Detroit's mayor is thinking about adding a tax just for fast food.

And Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick is here with us this morning.

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us. Why did you pick fast foods to target?

MAYOR KWAME M. KILPATRICK, DETROIT, MICHIGAN: Nice to see you.

Well, we had a Detroit economic forum where we looked at revenue sources. We looked at 19 different sources of revenue.

I mean, the city is crash-strapped. All the cities across America are. And we deduced it down to a couple different choices, and this was one that we thought would be least intrusive to our citizens.

Plus, we're offering a property tax cut as well. And we needed a way to replace that revenue. So we wanted to remove the burden on our citizens on one hand, but find the revenue to replace it. And we thought fast food was a logical choice; it's least intrusive, it's a choice tax.

O'BRIEN: But there are so many people, as you well know, who say you're taxing the poorest people. Poorest people are the ones who often eat fast food. It's the cheapest food usually.

And young people and senior citizens often eat fast food. So aren't they kind of bearing the burden of the tax problems in Detroit?

KILPATRICK: You know, it's -- I don't understand how that came to be. Because fast-food restaurants do an incredible job of marketing. Everybody eats fast food.

They do as well in the suburban communities as they do in the urban communities. I don't think it's a -- it's a poverty level type of thing. I think that people eat fast food who want it.

And we're looking at the dollars that it brings into the city, $17 million. Hopefully it encourage (ph) some people even to 2 percent. What we're saying is 2 percent.

So if you have a Happy Meal, that's $1.99. That would be $2.03. So it won't be oppressive to anyone. I mean, if they can afford it at $1.99, they can afford it at $2.03.

O'BRIEN: Why not liquor tax, why not cigarette tax?

KILPATRICK: In Michigan, those are state taxes, liquor and cigarettes. Cigarette taxes were just raised by our governor. The tobacco companies have set up shop in Michigan, and they don't want to see another increase. It would be incredibly tough for us to do that locally. There's no local tax on that now.

O'BRIEN: As you know, "TIME" magazine wrote an article where they said you're one of the country's worst mayors. Is this a result of that? I mean, are you trying to answer the critics? And a lot of what their criticism was about the finances in Detroit and about the fiscal situation there.

KILPATRICK: Right. Well, actually, none of their criticism was about the fiscal situation. It was about some personal issues with me.

O'BRIEN: Well, the budget overall.

KILPATRICK: Yes. But that wasn't -- they never really came to Detroit and talked to us. We've managed our budget well.

You know, a few days later, "Inc." magazine called me the mayor of the year and the most innovative in the country. So we like "Inc." in Detroit better than "TIME."

But I would say that it's not -- it has nothing to do with that. We have what other cities in America are facing.

People in this economic crisis, cities are at the bottom of the hill. And we need to find a way to put revenue back into cities. Cities can't sell off parts of the city, we can't -- we can't give out stock options. We have to find a way to raise revenue and cut at the same time. We're doing both.

O'BRIEN: So the folks have to vote on this before it becomes legislation?

KILPATRICK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Do you think actually it's going to -- it's going to pass?

KILPATRICK: I think it has a very strong chance of passing, because Detroit is getting a property tax cut. And I think that's the biggest thing.

We're overburdened with property taxes because of how we fund education in Michigan and the cap coming off of our taxes when property changes hands. And this allows people to take a property tax cut. But we have to replace that revenue some way. And it's a logical choice to go to fast food because it's not oppressive.

O'BRIEN: A drop in the bucket, though, $17 million of your $300 million deficit.

KILPATRICK: Exactly. Which is why I don't understand all the fuss.

I mean, our biggest cost, our pension and health benefits, we're paying $177 more this year in pension benefits than we did three years ago and $80 million more in health benefits. So the biggest net in how we're reducing our $300 million problem is renegotiating both of those things, which are well under way.

This is a, you know, small hold to get increased revenue in the city of Detroit so we don't have to revisit this situation again.

O'BRIEN: Well, we will see how it goes over with the folks in Detroit. Kwame Kilpatrick, thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.

KILPATRICK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. In a moment here, CNN celebrating 25 years on the air. June 1 is the day, in fact. Getting a little help this time from "Jeopardy." And the host, Alex Trebek, fills us in on the game show's special CNN week. That's up after the break.

Back with Jack, too, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: "Jeopardy" is helping CNN celebrate 25 years on the air with a week of shows, including questions about CNN. It started last night, night number one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN, 1200.

ALEX TREBEK, HOST, "JEOPARDY": Take a look.

NANCY GRACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. I'm Nancy Grace, with CNN Headline News. As a former Fulton County prosecutor, I went to the scene in this city to cover the deadly shootings in the same courtroom where I prosecuted felony cases.

TREBEK: Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is Atlanta?

TREBEK: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN, 1600.

TREBEK: Take a look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Alex Trebek is now my guest out in L.A.

How are you? Good morning to you.

TREBEK: I'm well, Bill. And I'm very happy to be with you today.

HEMMER: Listen, I am a fan of your show and have been for years, maybe even decades, as a matter of fact. Because you've been on it for so long, too. How did this idea come together with CNN?

TREBEK: I'm not too sure, but, you know, "Jeopardy's" has been on the air now 21 years, you guys have been on 25. And in two of our celebrity tournaments, our power players week tournaments that we have done in Washington, D.C., we've had a number of your CNN cohorts as contestants on the program, and they have all done pretty well. So it was a natural combination for us to want to do this, to help you guys celebrate 25 years.

HEMMER: Well, listen, we're doing 21, we're doing 25. How do you go through 25 years of history and come up with questions?

TREBEK: Well, we have a very talented group of writers. They've won I don't know how many Emmys now. And they work year-round, and they go over -- people ask me, "Well, where do you get your material? Where do you get your clues?" Encyclopedias.

We watch television, we watch CNN. We know what's in the news. We get some of your people to help us do clues.

We stay on top of things. Plus, we deal with the history of the world. So there's a lot of material out there available to us.

HEMMER: Yes. How do you get ready for that show, by the way? I'm listening to you rattle off all these names and I'm thinking you had to proofread it at some point.

TREBEK: No, I drink a lot.

HEMMER: That's the key, huh?

TREBEK: No. I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning at our studios in Culver City, and at 8:00 I get the game selection for that day.

Five games are selected. And I start going over the material. We then have a roundtable discussion with the producer and the writers at about 10:00. At noon, I'm in the studio getting made up and start taping the first show. And I'm done about 5:30, 6:00.

HEMMER: Now, do you fashion -- are you a history aficionado? Or is there a particular area that you find the most interesting?

TREBEK: American history. The Civil War is of particular interest to me. But I'm interested in all subjects, not only history, but science, entertainment.

I'm not what you would call one of those individuals who gets really deep into specific things, although I have in the past. At one time I would have done extremely well on any kind of a quiz show if all the questions had to do with Spanish bullfighting. But I'm beyond that now.

HEMMER: They haven't made that show yet, have they?

TREBEK: No.

HEMMER: We'll keep watching. Thanks, Alex.

TREBEK: Well, I hope so.

HEMMER: Indeed, we will. Thanks. And it's good to have this cooperative effort, too, "Jeopardy" and CNN all week. Thanks, Alex.

O'BRIEN: Let's get to the "Question of the Day and Jack.

I was trying to frame that in a "Jeopardy"-type question, but I'm sick and tired and couldn't do it. I tried, though.

CAFFERTY: And it wouldn't help.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: It's good to know...

CAFFERTY: It's kind of a lame deal.

O'BRIEN: If I had done it you wouldn't have been able to answer it.

CAFFERTY: No, I probably wouldn't have.

Beginning today, the federal government -- that would be us, the taxpayers -- are going to pay hospitals and doctor a billion dollars over the next three years to provide free emergency medical care to illegal immigrants. States asked for the money providing free medical care for illegals is a burden, a large one.

California spends $500 million a year on free medical care for illegal aliens. And this all happens, of course, at a time when 47 million of our own citizens have no health insurance, and in many case no access to health care because they can't afford it.

The question is this: should the government pay hospitals and doctors to provide emergency medical care free to illegal immigrants?

Brian in New Hampshire writes, "Of course not, that's all I can say. I would like to be more eloquent, but this has left me struggling for words."

Wayne in Pennsylvania, "Well, that's great, we can set aside taxpayer money to pay to give illegal immigrants hospitalization, but we can't set aside money to pay the IOUs that the government has on our Social Security."

Michael writes, "This is a good example of why we need conservative judges appointed."

And Lois in Washington writes, "Jack, yes, the situation is absurd. But Congress won't do anything until all of the anger expressed in the e-mails your receiving is sent to those in a position to do something about the situation. Let all of your viewers send their emails to Congress and the president."

HEMMER: Lois is on to something. Thank you, Jack.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Well, after years of fighting, a Florida man gives up his legal fight over 160 acres of swamp land. Well, now he's got $5 million for that, and he says he's a whole lot more miserable. We'll explain his situation ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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