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CNN Live At Daybreak
Back on the Ground After Causing Quite a Stir in the Skies; The Battle Over John Bolton
Aired May 12, 2005 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Back on the ground after causing quite a stir in the skies. The pilot who got lost and wound up in restricted airspace just three miles from the White House.
The battle over John Bolton -- a key vote today on the controversial nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
And what's the real deal about the Real I.D. Act? Will it make us safer or will it target immigrants unfairly?
It is Thursday, May 12.
You are watching DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
Now in the news, two car bombs at a Baghdad marketplace have caused an unknown number of casualties this morning. Authorities say one suicide bomber detonated his explosives outside of a movie theater. The other went off near a mosque.
North Korea says it has completed a step that could enable the country to create weapons grade plutonium for nuclear weapons. The government announced the removal of 8,000 fuel rods from a reactor at its main nuclear complex.
And look folks at -- look at what people found in one part of Colorado. That would be hail. It fell in parts of northeastern Colorado. But that's nothing. Nearly two feet of snow reported in the mountains of northern Wyoming.
Rob Marciano in for Chad Myers this morning -- good morning, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning.
Do you believe that? I mean two feet of snow in parts of Wy -- I know Wyoming is typically a cold place, but we're in the middle of May now, so that's unbelievable.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: A day after a security scare involving a small plane shook things up in a big way, and that's where we get started this hour, with our CNN "Security Watch."
It's as simple as this -- the pilots just got lost. That's the word from investigators looking into the incursion into restricted airspace. The two men who flew a single engine Cessna within three miles of the White House triggered a big time scare and plenty of questions.
Here's our Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were held for several hours by both the Secret Service and FBI and in the end officials said their intrusion into restricted air space was an accident.
MEL GLICK, SMOKETOWN AIRPORT OWNER: I think they just made a mistake, a big one.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say it was mostly pilot error, combined with some radio difficulty, that caused the problem. But they wouldn't elaborate beyond that. The men were identified as Jim Sheaffer, a pilot, retired trucker and member of a small flying club. The second is Troy Martin, a 35-year-old father and student pilot.
Martin's father says his son was aware of the no-fly zones and it made him nervous, especially because this was the longest flight he had ever planned. Even so, his dad says he was shocked to learn that it was his son making headlines.
MEL MARTIN, TROY MARTIN'S FATHER: When I heard it come across the news, I never even thought that it was him! And then even, they said, oh, two pilots from Smoketown. And so I was going to call his wife and say, hey, there's going to be excitement in Smoketown because somebody from Smoketown, you know, got into the no-fly area, never thinking it was my son. And then I called my wife to tell her, and she says, "It was Troy!"
ARENA: The Cessna they were flying is owned by the flying club. It's called the Vintage Aero Club, based in a small town in Pennsylvania. Friends say the men were heading to an air show in North Carolina.
PHIL BOYERS, AIRPORT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION: You can do so without ever talking to anyone on a radio, without having to have a flight plan if you don't want to, as long as the day is as clear as it was today. They obviously, then, didn't plot their course on the map properly. A straight line between those two points takes you right by the Capitol.
ARENA: The men may not have been detained for long, but by the time they were released, there wasn't much about them that law enforcement didn't know. There were background checks. Their names were run through terrorist and criminal databases. Friends and associates were interviewed. In a statement, the Secret Service said, "the plane and individuals were searched," and "nothing of interest was found. No charges are being sought at this time." But the FAA could impose civil fines. And there's a good possibility that Sheaffer could have his pilot's license eventually revoked or suspended.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COSTELLO: And be sure to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
It's down to the vote now. After all the allegations of abrupt and abusive behavior, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is set to vote on John Bolton's nomination as U.N. ambassador. But does he have the votes?
Elise Labott is live at the State Department with the latest -- good morning, Elise.
ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, that meeting is expected to get underway in a few hours and we expect there will be a vote today. But it's not certain. Democrats could force a delay, another one, like they did several weeks ago.
What we are going to see is a lengthy debate between Republicans and Democrats, up to five hours, on Bolton's controversial nomination.
The central issue -- whether Bolton abused subordinates, tried to have some intelligence analysts fired for not siding with him on intelligence matters. Carol, it's become really ugly, as you know. A whole host of allegations raised against Bolton's temperament, charges he tried to shade intelligence by mistreating analysts. And the Bush administration stands by him whole-heartedly.
Now, the committee interviewed over 30 witnesses and Democrats on the committee, as of last night, still asking for more information from the State Department. Democrats are hoping they'll raise enough questions about Bolton's conduct to get some Republicans to vote against him -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, but what are the Republicans saying? Do they have enough votes to get Bolton through?
LABOTT: Well, Republican Chairman Richard Lugar said he expects that they'll vote around party lines. That could be a 10-8 vote for Bolton. But there have been at least four Republicans that have voiced reservations. Senator Chuck Hagel, Senator Lincoln Chaffee and Senator Barbara Murkowski seem to be leaning toward voting yes. But Senator George Voinovich of Ohio seems to be the wildcard now. If he votes against Bolton -- and he said as of last night he really didn't know -- that could be a tie vote. That could go to the Senate without recommendation. And Democrats are threatening to perhaps force a filibuster on the floor.
COSTELLO: Oh, it could be an exciting day on the Hill.
LABOTT: It sure will be.
COSTELLO: Elise Labott reporting live from Washington this morning.
Thank you.
In other "News Across America" this morning, prosecutors say they have a motive in the killings of two young girls in Zion, Illinois. Jerry Hobbs is charged with killing his daughter Laura and Krystal Tobias, her best friend. Prosecutors say Hobbes became angry when his daughter left Sunday with her friend, despite being grounded. They say he tracked her down and stabbed to death Laura and Krystal.
McCauley Culkin says Michael Jackson is still a friend. The actor testified at Jackson's molestation trial that the entertainer never sexually molested him or touched him improperly. He calls the allegations against Jackson "absolutely ridiculous." Culkin adds, his stays at Jackson's Neverland Ranch were, and I'm quoting here, "good old fun."
Former First Lady Nancy Reagan says perhaps we should do this more often. She was speaking to both Republicans and Democrats who came together at a dinner in her honor. The evening raised $2.5 million for a pavilion at the Reagan Presidential Library.
Supporters say the Real I.D. Act will help make us safer. But others say the new driver's license rules targets immigrants in the name of fighting terrorism and it will also give you a big headache when you go to the DMV. We'll give you the real deal.
And shooting a plane out of the sky -- how and when the decision to fire is made.
Also, employers taking steps to fire you for behavior conducted off the clock. Can they really do that?
But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER UPDEGRAVE, SENIOR EDITOR, "MONEY": When purchasing a car, one of the first things to keep in mind is that you don't want to put so much money into it that it takes away money that you should be using to meet other financial obligations.
The key things that you want to be thinking about are how much of your budget do you want to allocate to car payments. That's usually 8 to 10 percent. And then what interest rate are you going to get on that loan? There are costs other than just the monthly payment when you buy a car. For example, there's gas, there's maintenance, there's insurance. So when you're thinking of buying a car, you want to look at the total cost, not just the monthly payment for the loan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Iraqi police now say there was one car bombing in Baghdad this morning, not two as was earlier reported. It happened at a marketplace. Twelve people killed, 56 wounded in the blast.
In money news, the man who steered Eastman Kodak's transformation to digital imaging is ascending to the company's top job. Antonio Perez, who joined Kodak just two years ago, has been named the company's next CEO.
In culture, super model Heidi Klum and singer Seal are now husband and wife. They tied the knot on a beach in Mexico Tuesday. Two months ago, the couple announced that Klum is pregnant.
In sports, a ninth inning home run lifted the Red Sox over the Athletics 6-5. Boston has won its last nine games against Oakland.
To the Forecast Center and Rob.
MARCIANO: It was a beautiful day yesterday for baseball.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Back to our top story now, the red alert in Washington. The safety of the 35,000 people working on Capitol Hill was definitely on the minds of the Defense Department. One option out there, and we've been talking a lot about this this morning, the order for the plane to be shot down. An obviously hard decision to make.
Here's our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, with that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was just nine days ago that CNN visited Paul McHale in his fifth floor Pentagon office to talk about the very type of thing that happened Wednesday. A small plane is flying over restricted air space in Washington, D.C. It is just after 12:00 noon, and in McHale's office, the secure phone rings. As the first ever assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense, McHale listens briefly and then notifies other senior officials in the Pentagon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks, you have to get off the grounds now!
STARR: Aides keep him informed until the crisis passes.
In the interview with CNN, McHale discussed the nightmare scenario -- shooting down a commercial aircraft in the post-9/11 world. PAUL MCHALE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY HOMELAND DEFENSE: We train routinely for the sobering mission of shooting down a commercial airliner if that commercial airliner is commandeered by terrorists, as occurred on September the 11th. That's a chilling order. It's one that we certainly hope no one ever has to give. But the president, the secretary of defense and others in the chain of command are prepared to make that very difficult decision if that decision is required to save an even greater number of American lives. The terrorists know that. And we believe that that has a deterrent effect, saying to the terrorists, if you commandeer an aircraft, you will likely be interdicted by F-16s and you won't make it to the target.
STARR: Fighter jets scrambled quickly to intercept this small aircraft. But it's just one scenario McHale worries about each morning when he begins his day at the Pentagon with an intelligence briefing on the latest threats. Terrorists using ports to bring a nuclear, chemical or biological device into the United States is a constant concern.
MCHALE: If we were to experience a domestic attack involving a weapon of mass destruction, there are highly trained Department of Defense personnel who are prepared to respond almost immediately to assist civilian authorities in beginning the remediation, the response to that attack.
STARR: McHale's office is within steps of where the airliner hit the Pentagon on 9/11, a fact never very far from his mind and at the forefront of his priorities.
MCHALE: Three thousand Americans died on that day because we were not fully prepared to defend our country. We're committed to the proposition that won't happen again.
STARR (on camera): This incident did not result in the nightmare decision to shoot a plane down. But the military now has the plans and procedures to do just that if it is ever required.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: We're going to be talking more about this topic. It was our e-mail Question of the Morning and an amazing number of you said that the plane should have been shot down. Kyra Phillips will be on in the next, oh, half hour or so on DAYBREAK. She talked to one of the F-16 pilots who intercepted that Cessna. She'll tell us what he has to say about all of this. And we'll also read more of your e- mails.
Keeping Americans safe -- so why are some people so outraged by the Real I.D. Act? We'll find out about that, too, when DAYBREAK continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: We have been talking a lot about the Real I.D. Act. It was part of the war spending bill that President Bush signed yesterday, sort of tucked in there without much talk about it.
Critics, though, say its provisions will result in what amounts to a national I.D. card and that it would unfairly target immigrants. Supporters say it will help track would-be terrorists.
So what's the real deal?
Joining us live to talk about the controversy surrounding this new I.D., Jeff Howe, contributing editor at "Wired" magazine, and Timothy Sparapani from the American Civil Liberties Union.
Welcome to you both.
TIMOTHY SPARAPANI, ACLU LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL: Good morning.
It's a pleasure.
JEFF HOWE, "WIRED" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Let's start with the technology aspect of this.
And we'll start with you, Jeff, since you know about these things.
Supposedly there's going to be some kind of chip placed in this national I.D. card that will store such information like our Social Security number, our date of birth, our sex and maybe other information that we don't know about.
HOWE: That's right.
COSTELLO: So why would that be a bad thing?
HOWE: Because of the ease with which, you know, identity thieves would be able to get access to that. They don't know which technology. They haven't specified which technology that they would use to embed that information. And the fear, since the State Department, you know, is currently debating using RFID technology on passports, is that they would use that. And that's a really insecure technology.
COSTELLO: So tell us about that technology.
HOWE: RFID is radio frequency identification. And it's used right now by FedEx and wholesale shippers. It's a wonderful thing. It streamlines, you know, the shipping process because it contains where the package is going, where it's been, where it needs to go, etc. But because it's radio frequency, if everyone had an RFID chip on their driver's license, a data skimmer, or an identity thief, could literally put a scanner in their briefcase and walk through a crowd picking up, you know, people's personal identification.
COSTELLO: Of course, as we know, though, people are stealing people's identities all the time, even without that technology available.
SPARAPANI: Well...
COSTELLO: So I turn to you, Timothy.
What's so wrong with this?
SPARAPANI: Well, for the first time we're really creating the backbone of a national identification card. We're putting every single American driver's most sensitive personal information in one place. And then we're giving tens of thousands of employees around the country access to it. There's lots of points of entry and any significant or serious criminal identity thief or terrorist can hack into one system and get any American driver's information in one place.
It's literally one stop shopping for an identity thief.
COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about where this data will be stored, because I don't think that's been worked out either.
And is that a danger, too, Jeff?
HOWE: Absolutely. Yes. Well, you know, I mean that's right. What they're calling for is linked database. But that's, you know, pretty much exactly right, is it's one stop shopping. I mean since we -- if you got access to one state's database, you would have access to all the rest of them, as well.
COSTELLO: OK, well, let's explain that for just a second, because what the federal government wants to happen is all of the DMVs to link to the other across the country.
HOWE: That's right.
SPARAPANI: That's right.
COSTELLO: So your data will be stored all over the country.
But, again, what is so wrong with that? Doesn't that protect us more?
SPARAPANI: Actually, it's quite the contrary. When we have all this information in these databases and it's so easily accessible, really, we set ourselves up for a situation where a terrorist can steal that information and move more freely throughout the country after this bill has been passed. We actually are creating the illusion of security when, in fact, we're lessening our total security against terrorists.
COSTELLO: But some states can opt out of this program, isn't that correct?
SPARAPANI: Well, they do have the option technically to opt out. But as Governor Mike Huckabee, a Republican from Arkansas, said over the last several days, there's going to be real problems with that. If a state does not agree to these changes within three years, then that state's citizens won't be able to get on an airplane. They will not be able to board a train. They won't be able to go to any federal facility unless the state issues a new and second set of identification cards to every citizen for those federal purposes.
So there's really no option here for states.
COSTELLO: Well, Jeff, a last question here for you.
HOWE: Sure.
COSTELLO: Don't you think the government has considered these possibilities and they'll come up with a safe way to store this data?
HOWE: Well, you know, it should be said that, you know, that there will be a rule making committee and there will be, you know, time for public comment to come in. But, you know, that doesn't make any of this a good idea, in my opinion. I mean I just don't think there's any way of getting around it that there's a real danger embedding a -- I mean what we learn at "Wired" over and over is that hackers will always find a way to break in. I mean that's a rule. There's no database that will be designed that an identity thief will not be able to access. And as Timothy points out, putting that all together in one database is an insecure option.
COSTELLO: Jeff, Timothy, thank you so much for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
SPARAPANI: My pleasure.
Thank you.
HOWE: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Still to come, inside the moment when officials must decide whether or not to shoot down a plane. That's just ahead on DAYBREAK for this Thursday, May 12.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Time now for a little "Business Buzz."
Can the things you do away from your job get you fired?
Carrie Lee tells us that some companies are cracking down on smokers?
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even if you do it at home. That's right. Some people don't want to hire smokers. Other people aren't covering smokers regarding insurance.
Here's what's happening. Waco, Inc., which is a medical benefits provider based in Michigan, has banned employees from smoking on their own time. These employees have to submit to random tests and agree to searches -- purses, briefcases, things like that -- if they are suspected of smoking. About 20 people quit due to the policy and several others were fired after refusing to submit to the test.
Other companies are testing potential new hires and not offering jobs to smokers.
At issue is the medical costs related to smoking. According to the "USA Today," the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says tobacco causes over 440,000 deaths each year and over $75 billion in direct medical costs.
These bans are not legal everywhere, however. Twenty states have laws against discriminating against workers for lifestyle choices. But it does certainly raise questions about how far employers can go in controlling workers' behavior. Lifestyle versus what makes sense for the company.
COSTELLO: Exactly. Like let's say you ride a motorcycle and some companies might consider that dangerous and you might have an accident on your motorcycle.
LEE: Well, that's true, although that would be an auto insurance issue, right? I mean one can argue that if a company has to pay health benefits and if a smoker is going to cost them more money, well, they need to do what's fiscally prudent.
COSTELLO: Yes, but wouldn't it...
LEE: It's a gray line, though. Where do you draw the line? Exactly.
COSTELLO: Exactly. But I'm just saying that health care costs are paid by insurance companies. It covers smokers' illnesses, too, right?
LEE: Right.
Well, I think sometimes -- often, there's a way to determine if somebody is a smoker or not. And so maybe they need to have a multi- tier system, something like that.
Anyway, this is the way a lot of companies are going and certainly the -- an interesting story for debate.
COSTELLO: Definitely.
LEE: Workers rights versus a company's best interests.
COSTELLO: A quick look at the futures?
LEE: Yes, things looking a little bit flat, actually, today. One stock we're going to be keeping an eye on is Walt Disney. Strong growth helped by strong DVD sales for "The Incredibles," the movie that was very successful. So we'll keep an eye on that Dow component.
COSTELLO: Carrie Lee, thank you.
LEE: OK. COSTELLO: Still to come, tense moments in our nation's capital. What was it like to be in the middle of danger and chaos? Our Kyra Phillips talked with one of the pilots of the F-16 that intercepted that small plane. We'll talk to her in the next half hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Good morning to you.
From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
Now in the news, a marketplace in Baghdad the latest scene of carnage in Iraq. Iraqi police say 12 people were killed, 56 others wounded in a car bombing.
Your overall retirement security will be the focuses of a House Ways and Means Committee hearing today. Lawmakers want to look at improving chronic and long-term care, in addition to the Social Security overhaul President Bush is pushing.
Flooding is a problem for areas of southwest Nebraska. But that's not all the region's problems. Some residents report tornadoes plus hail the size of softballs.
To the Forecast Center.
Rob Marciano in for Chad today -- good morning.
MARCIANO: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 12, 2005 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Back on the ground after causing quite a stir in the skies. The pilot who got lost and wound up in restricted airspace just three miles from the White House.
The battle over John Bolton -- a key vote today on the controversial nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
And what's the real deal about the Real I.D. Act? Will it make us safer or will it target immigrants unfairly?
It is Thursday, May 12.
You are watching DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
Now in the news, two car bombs at a Baghdad marketplace have caused an unknown number of casualties this morning. Authorities say one suicide bomber detonated his explosives outside of a movie theater. The other went off near a mosque.
North Korea says it has completed a step that could enable the country to create weapons grade plutonium for nuclear weapons. The government announced the removal of 8,000 fuel rods from a reactor at its main nuclear complex.
And look folks at -- look at what people found in one part of Colorado. That would be hail. It fell in parts of northeastern Colorado. But that's nothing. Nearly two feet of snow reported in the mountains of northern Wyoming.
Rob Marciano in for Chad Myers this morning -- good morning, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning.
Do you believe that? I mean two feet of snow in parts of Wy -- I know Wyoming is typically a cold place, but we're in the middle of May now, so that's unbelievable.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: A day after a security scare involving a small plane shook things up in a big way, and that's where we get started this hour, with our CNN "Security Watch."
It's as simple as this -- the pilots just got lost. That's the word from investigators looking into the incursion into restricted airspace. The two men who flew a single engine Cessna within three miles of the White House triggered a big time scare and plenty of questions.
Here's our Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were held for several hours by both the Secret Service and FBI and in the end officials said their intrusion into restricted air space was an accident.
MEL GLICK, SMOKETOWN AIRPORT OWNER: I think they just made a mistake, a big one.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say it was mostly pilot error, combined with some radio difficulty, that caused the problem. But they wouldn't elaborate beyond that. The men were identified as Jim Sheaffer, a pilot, retired trucker and member of a small flying club. The second is Troy Martin, a 35-year-old father and student pilot.
Martin's father says his son was aware of the no-fly zones and it made him nervous, especially because this was the longest flight he had ever planned. Even so, his dad says he was shocked to learn that it was his son making headlines.
MEL MARTIN, TROY MARTIN'S FATHER: When I heard it come across the news, I never even thought that it was him! And then even, they said, oh, two pilots from Smoketown. And so I was going to call his wife and say, hey, there's going to be excitement in Smoketown because somebody from Smoketown, you know, got into the no-fly area, never thinking it was my son. And then I called my wife to tell her, and she says, "It was Troy!"
ARENA: The Cessna they were flying is owned by the flying club. It's called the Vintage Aero Club, based in a small town in Pennsylvania. Friends say the men were heading to an air show in North Carolina.
PHIL BOYERS, AIRPORT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION: You can do so without ever talking to anyone on a radio, without having to have a flight plan if you don't want to, as long as the day is as clear as it was today. They obviously, then, didn't plot their course on the map properly. A straight line between those two points takes you right by the Capitol.
ARENA: The men may not have been detained for long, but by the time they were released, there wasn't much about them that law enforcement didn't know. There were background checks. Their names were run through terrorist and criminal databases. Friends and associates were interviewed. In a statement, the Secret Service said, "the plane and individuals were searched," and "nothing of interest was found. No charges are being sought at this time." But the FAA could impose civil fines. And there's a good possibility that Sheaffer could have his pilot's license eventually revoked or suspended.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COSTELLO: And be sure to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
It's down to the vote now. After all the allegations of abrupt and abusive behavior, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is set to vote on John Bolton's nomination as U.N. ambassador. But does he have the votes?
Elise Labott is live at the State Department with the latest -- good morning, Elise.
ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, that meeting is expected to get underway in a few hours and we expect there will be a vote today. But it's not certain. Democrats could force a delay, another one, like they did several weeks ago.
What we are going to see is a lengthy debate between Republicans and Democrats, up to five hours, on Bolton's controversial nomination.
The central issue -- whether Bolton abused subordinates, tried to have some intelligence analysts fired for not siding with him on intelligence matters. Carol, it's become really ugly, as you know. A whole host of allegations raised against Bolton's temperament, charges he tried to shade intelligence by mistreating analysts. And the Bush administration stands by him whole-heartedly.
Now, the committee interviewed over 30 witnesses and Democrats on the committee, as of last night, still asking for more information from the State Department. Democrats are hoping they'll raise enough questions about Bolton's conduct to get some Republicans to vote against him -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, but what are the Republicans saying? Do they have enough votes to get Bolton through?
LABOTT: Well, Republican Chairman Richard Lugar said he expects that they'll vote around party lines. That could be a 10-8 vote for Bolton. But there have been at least four Republicans that have voiced reservations. Senator Chuck Hagel, Senator Lincoln Chaffee and Senator Barbara Murkowski seem to be leaning toward voting yes. But Senator George Voinovich of Ohio seems to be the wildcard now. If he votes against Bolton -- and he said as of last night he really didn't know -- that could be a tie vote. That could go to the Senate without recommendation. And Democrats are threatening to perhaps force a filibuster on the floor.
COSTELLO: Oh, it could be an exciting day on the Hill.
LABOTT: It sure will be.
COSTELLO: Elise Labott reporting live from Washington this morning.
Thank you.
In other "News Across America" this morning, prosecutors say they have a motive in the killings of two young girls in Zion, Illinois. Jerry Hobbs is charged with killing his daughter Laura and Krystal Tobias, her best friend. Prosecutors say Hobbes became angry when his daughter left Sunday with her friend, despite being grounded. They say he tracked her down and stabbed to death Laura and Krystal.
McCauley Culkin says Michael Jackson is still a friend. The actor testified at Jackson's molestation trial that the entertainer never sexually molested him or touched him improperly. He calls the allegations against Jackson "absolutely ridiculous." Culkin adds, his stays at Jackson's Neverland Ranch were, and I'm quoting here, "good old fun."
Former First Lady Nancy Reagan says perhaps we should do this more often. She was speaking to both Republicans and Democrats who came together at a dinner in her honor. The evening raised $2.5 million for a pavilion at the Reagan Presidential Library.
Supporters say the Real I.D. Act will help make us safer. But others say the new driver's license rules targets immigrants in the name of fighting terrorism and it will also give you a big headache when you go to the DMV. We'll give you the real deal.
And shooting a plane out of the sky -- how and when the decision to fire is made.
Also, employers taking steps to fire you for behavior conducted off the clock. Can they really do that?
But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER UPDEGRAVE, SENIOR EDITOR, "MONEY": When purchasing a car, one of the first things to keep in mind is that you don't want to put so much money into it that it takes away money that you should be using to meet other financial obligations.
The key things that you want to be thinking about are how much of your budget do you want to allocate to car payments. That's usually 8 to 10 percent. And then what interest rate are you going to get on that loan? There are costs other than just the monthly payment when you buy a car. For example, there's gas, there's maintenance, there's insurance. So when you're thinking of buying a car, you want to look at the total cost, not just the monthly payment for the loan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Iraqi police now say there was one car bombing in Baghdad this morning, not two as was earlier reported. It happened at a marketplace. Twelve people killed, 56 wounded in the blast.
In money news, the man who steered Eastman Kodak's transformation to digital imaging is ascending to the company's top job. Antonio Perez, who joined Kodak just two years ago, has been named the company's next CEO.
In culture, super model Heidi Klum and singer Seal are now husband and wife. They tied the knot on a beach in Mexico Tuesday. Two months ago, the couple announced that Klum is pregnant.
In sports, a ninth inning home run lifted the Red Sox over the Athletics 6-5. Boston has won its last nine games against Oakland.
To the Forecast Center and Rob.
MARCIANO: It was a beautiful day yesterday for baseball.
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COSTELLO: Back to our top story now, the red alert in Washington. The safety of the 35,000 people working on Capitol Hill was definitely on the minds of the Defense Department. One option out there, and we've been talking a lot about this this morning, the order for the plane to be shot down. An obviously hard decision to make.
Here's our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, with that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was just nine days ago that CNN visited Paul McHale in his fifth floor Pentagon office to talk about the very type of thing that happened Wednesday. A small plane is flying over restricted air space in Washington, D.C. It is just after 12:00 noon, and in McHale's office, the secure phone rings. As the first ever assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense, McHale listens briefly and then notifies other senior officials in the Pentagon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks, you have to get off the grounds now!
STARR: Aides keep him informed until the crisis passes.
In the interview with CNN, McHale discussed the nightmare scenario -- shooting down a commercial aircraft in the post-9/11 world. PAUL MCHALE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY HOMELAND DEFENSE: We train routinely for the sobering mission of shooting down a commercial airliner if that commercial airliner is commandeered by terrorists, as occurred on September the 11th. That's a chilling order. It's one that we certainly hope no one ever has to give. But the president, the secretary of defense and others in the chain of command are prepared to make that very difficult decision if that decision is required to save an even greater number of American lives. The terrorists know that. And we believe that that has a deterrent effect, saying to the terrorists, if you commandeer an aircraft, you will likely be interdicted by F-16s and you won't make it to the target.
STARR: Fighter jets scrambled quickly to intercept this small aircraft. But it's just one scenario McHale worries about each morning when he begins his day at the Pentagon with an intelligence briefing on the latest threats. Terrorists using ports to bring a nuclear, chemical or biological device into the United States is a constant concern.
MCHALE: If we were to experience a domestic attack involving a weapon of mass destruction, there are highly trained Department of Defense personnel who are prepared to respond almost immediately to assist civilian authorities in beginning the remediation, the response to that attack.
STARR: McHale's office is within steps of where the airliner hit the Pentagon on 9/11, a fact never very far from his mind and at the forefront of his priorities.
MCHALE: Three thousand Americans died on that day because we were not fully prepared to defend our country. We're committed to the proposition that won't happen again.
STARR (on camera): This incident did not result in the nightmare decision to shoot a plane down. But the military now has the plans and procedures to do just that if it is ever required.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: We're going to be talking more about this topic. It was our e-mail Question of the Morning and an amazing number of you said that the plane should have been shot down. Kyra Phillips will be on in the next, oh, half hour or so on DAYBREAK. She talked to one of the F-16 pilots who intercepted that Cessna. She'll tell us what he has to say about all of this. And we'll also read more of your e- mails.
Keeping Americans safe -- so why are some people so outraged by the Real I.D. Act? We'll find out about that, too, when DAYBREAK continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: We have been talking a lot about the Real I.D. Act. It was part of the war spending bill that President Bush signed yesterday, sort of tucked in there without much talk about it.
Critics, though, say its provisions will result in what amounts to a national I.D. card and that it would unfairly target immigrants. Supporters say it will help track would-be terrorists.
So what's the real deal?
Joining us live to talk about the controversy surrounding this new I.D., Jeff Howe, contributing editor at "Wired" magazine, and Timothy Sparapani from the American Civil Liberties Union.
Welcome to you both.
TIMOTHY SPARAPANI, ACLU LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL: Good morning.
It's a pleasure.
JEFF HOWE, "WIRED" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Let's start with the technology aspect of this.
And we'll start with you, Jeff, since you know about these things.
Supposedly there's going to be some kind of chip placed in this national I.D. card that will store such information like our Social Security number, our date of birth, our sex and maybe other information that we don't know about.
HOWE: That's right.
COSTELLO: So why would that be a bad thing?
HOWE: Because of the ease with which, you know, identity thieves would be able to get access to that. They don't know which technology. They haven't specified which technology that they would use to embed that information. And the fear, since the State Department, you know, is currently debating using RFID technology on passports, is that they would use that. And that's a really insecure technology.
COSTELLO: So tell us about that technology.
HOWE: RFID is radio frequency identification. And it's used right now by FedEx and wholesale shippers. It's a wonderful thing. It streamlines, you know, the shipping process because it contains where the package is going, where it's been, where it needs to go, etc. But because it's radio frequency, if everyone had an RFID chip on their driver's license, a data skimmer, or an identity thief, could literally put a scanner in their briefcase and walk through a crowd picking up, you know, people's personal identification.
COSTELLO: Of course, as we know, though, people are stealing people's identities all the time, even without that technology available.
SPARAPANI: Well...
COSTELLO: So I turn to you, Timothy.
What's so wrong with this?
SPARAPANI: Well, for the first time we're really creating the backbone of a national identification card. We're putting every single American driver's most sensitive personal information in one place. And then we're giving tens of thousands of employees around the country access to it. There's lots of points of entry and any significant or serious criminal identity thief or terrorist can hack into one system and get any American driver's information in one place.
It's literally one stop shopping for an identity thief.
COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about where this data will be stored, because I don't think that's been worked out either.
And is that a danger, too, Jeff?
HOWE: Absolutely. Yes. Well, you know, I mean that's right. What they're calling for is linked database. But that's, you know, pretty much exactly right, is it's one stop shopping. I mean since we -- if you got access to one state's database, you would have access to all the rest of them, as well.
COSTELLO: OK, well, let's explain that for just a second, because what the federal government wants to happen is all of the DMVs to link to the other across the country.
HOWE: That's right.
SPARAPANI: That's right.
COSTELLO: So your data will be stored all over the country.
But, again, what is so wrong with that? Doesn't that protect us more?
SPARAPANI: Actually, it's quite the contrary. When we have all this information in these databases and it's so easily accessible, really, we set ourselves up for a situation where a terrorist can steal that information and move more freely throughout the country after this bill has been passed. We actually are creating the illusion of security when, in fact, we're lessening our total security against terrorists.
COSTELLO: But some states can opt out of this program, isn't that correct?
SPARAPANI: Well, they do have the option technically to opt out. But as Governor Mike Huckabee, a Republican from Arkansas, said over the last several days, there's going to be real problems with that. If a state does not agree to these changes within three years, then that state's citizens won't be able to get on an airplane. They will not be able to board a train. They won't be able to go to any federal facility unless the state issues a new and second set of identification cards to every citizen for those federal purposes.
So there's really no option here for states.
COSTELLO: Well, Jeff, a last question here for you.
HOWE: Sure.
COSTELLO: Don't you think the government has considered these possibilities and they'll come up with a safe way to store this data?
HOWE: Well, you know, it should be said that, you know, that there will be a rule making committee and there will be, you know, time for public comment to come in. But, you know, that doesn't make any of this a good idea, in my opinion. I mean I just don't think there's any way of getting around it that there's a real danger embedding a -- I mean what we learn at "Wired" over and over is that hackers will always find a way to break in. I mean that's a rule. There's no database that will be designed that an identity thief will not be able to access. And as Timothy points out, putting that all together in one database is an insecure option.
COSTELLO: Jeff, Timothy, thank you so much for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
SPARAPANI: My pleasure.
Thank you.
HOWE: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Still to come, inside the moment when officials must decide whether or not to shoot down a plane. That's just ahead on DAYBREAK for this Thursday, May 12.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Time now for a little "Business Buzz."
Can the things you do away from your job get you fired?
Carrie Lee tells us that some companies are cracking down on smokers?
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even if you do it at home. That's right. Some people don't want to hire smokers. Other people aren't covering smokers regarding insurance.
Here's what's happening. Waco, Inc., which is a medical benefits provider based in Michigan, has banned employees from smoking on their own time. These employees have to submit to random tests and agree to searches -- purses, briefcases, things like that -- if they are suspected of smoking. About 20 people quit due to the policy and several others were fired after refusing to submit to the test.
Other companies are testing potential new hires and not offering jobs to smokers.
At issue is the medical costs related to smoking. According to the "USA Today," the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says tobacco causes over 440,000 deaths each year and over $75 billion in direct medical costs.
These bans are not legal everywhere, however. Twenty states have laws against discriminating against workers for lifestyle choices. But it does certainly raise questions about how far employers can go in controlling workers' behavior. Lifestyle versus what makes sense for the company.
COSTELLO: Exactly. Like let's say you ride a motorcycle and some companies might consider that dangerous and you might have an accident on your motorcycle.
LEE: Well, that's true, although that would be an auto insurance issue, right? I mean one can argue that if a company has to pay health benefits and if a smoker is going to cost them more money, well, they need to do what's fiscally prudent.
COSTELLO: Yes, but wouldn't it...
LEE: It's a gray line, though. Where do you draw the line? Exactly.
COSTELLO: Exactly. But I'm just saying that health care costs are paid by insurance companies. It covers smokers' illnesses, too, right?
LEE: Right.
Well, I think sometimes -- often, there's a way to determine if somebody is a smoker or not. And so maybe they need to have a multi- tier system, something like that.
Anyway, this is the way a lot of companies are going and certainly the -- an interesting story for debate.
COSTELLO: Definitely.
LEE: Workers rights versus a company's best interests.
COSTELLO: A quick look at the futures?
LEE: Yes, things looking a little bit flat, actually, today. One stock we're going to be keeping an eye on is Walt Disney. Strong growth helped by strong DVD sales for "The Incredibles," the movie that was very successful. So we'll keep an eye on that Dow component.
COSTELLO: Carrie Lee, thank you.
LEE: OK. COSTELLO: Still to come, tense moments in our nation's capital. What was it like to be in the middle of danger and chaos? Our Kyra Phillips talked with one of the pilots of the F-16 that intercepted that small plane. We'll talk to her in the next half hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Good morning to you.
From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.
Now in the news, a marketplace in Baghdad the latest scene of carnage in Iraq. Iraqi police say 12 people were killed, 56 others wounded in a car bombing.
Your overall retirement security will be the focuses of a House Ways and Means Committee hearing today. Lawmakers want to look at improving chronic and long-term care, in addition to the Social Security overhaul President Bush is pushing.
Flooding is a problem for areas of southwest Nebraska. But that's not all the region's problems. Some residents report tornadoes plus hail the size of softballs.
To the Forecast Center.
Rob Marciano in for Chad today -- good morning.
MARCIANO: Good morning, Carol.
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