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Interview With John Walsh

Aired May 12, 2005 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, John Walsh of "America's Most Wanted" on the ex-con father charged with murdering his 8-year-old daughter and her friend, the jury deliberating the death penalty for the man convicted of killing little Samantha Runnion, the signing of the Jessica Lunsford law last week in Florida, and on the predators still out there.
John Walsh, he turned the abduction and murder of his own son into a powerful force for good. He's here for the hour. We'll take your calls, next on LARRY KING LIVE.

KING: We're in New York tonight with an old friend, John Walsh. As usual, lots of things to cover.

First things first, John has a new DVD out called "Hot Tips to Keep Cool Kids Safe with People They Didn't Know and Kinda Know, Even the Hairy Ones." It's John Walsh, a combination production from John Walsh and Julie Clark, the creator of "Baby Einstein." We'll get to this later.

But what's the concept?

JOHN WALSH, VICTIMS' RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, to teach kids in a non-threatening way the good, solid rules and good information of how to resist abductors and to resist people that will exploit them. And it's basically for parents and children to open those lines of communication.

And of course, Julie Clark is the genius lady who put out all those "Baby Einstein" videos that opened those doors of communication with parents. So I think it's real timely with all that's going on, the exploitation of kids.

KING: Later we'll show a clip of it. It's available now.

WALSH: Yep, at



KING: You were on Capitol Hill yesterday?

WALSH: Boy, was I.

KING: Did you fly in? WALSH: I was actually up there when everybody started running. And they evacuated the House, the Senate, and all the office buildings. You know, everybody was out there...

KING: You had to be lobbying for something.

WALSH: I was. I'm so upset about what's been going on. And you know, we have about 600,000 convicted sex offenders here in the United States. And they estimate that about 100,000 of them have disappeared. They're not complying with the Megan's Law.

You know, Megan's Law was passed nine years ago. I was in the Rose Garden. And it's supposed to be a registry of sexual predators, of convicted sexual predators.

For example, in Florida, we have about 35,000 convicted sexual predators and 1,800 are missing. The condition of Megan's Law was that, once you were released, on parole or probation, you must register within 24 hours and you must give a valid address.

Now, the last two murders in Florida, beautiful Jessica Lunsford and the Lunde little girl, both those guys were convicted sex offenders who refused to give a valid address and should have been, you know, in jail. They shouldn't have been out on the streets.

I mean, Couey, the guy that's accused of killing Jessica Lunsford, had 22 arrests. He was in parole violation.

KING: What did you want them to pass?

WALSH: What I want them to do is a comprehensive package of legislation. Number one, put some teeth in Megan's Law. Make sure that sex offenders pay a penalty if they don't register, if they don't give a valid address. Mandate that every convicted felon in the United States have their DNA taken and put in the FBI bank (INAUDIBLE)

The FBI says, look, we have got states that don't even have DNA banks. You and I have talked about it many times. It solves crimes, and it gets people out of jail that are innocent. And also it would be for the exchange of information on the DNA situation.

And it would mandate that if they don't register, then their patrol would be violated and they would go back to jail. Put some teeth in this and track these sex offenders.

KING: So they are treated as if they're incurable, right?

WALSH: Well...

KING: Because no other criminal has to do this?

WALSH: Absolutely. The vast body of the psychiatric community agrees that these guys are incurable and they have an incredibly high rate of recidivism.

So in the meantime, while we're studying why they do this, whether it's genetics, study their brains, whether it's environmental, whether it's whatever happened to them, et cetera, we know one thing, that if you separate them from children, they'll have less victims.

But at least, Larry -- and you're a parent of two beautiful little boys -- you and your wife want to know where these sex offenders are in your neighborhood. The Megan's Law said that the sheriff or chief of police in your area must keep a file and give it to you. Now, a lot of them aren't complying. The cops aren't even complying with Megan's Law.

KING: Throughout the show tonight, as we always do with John, we'll be showing you various cases that he is working on or has worked on. Let's go to the first one. The others, we'll show as we bump into each segment.

But this is the accused child molester, Richard Goldberg. Watch.


WALSH: Parents in this working-class community in Long Beach, California, thought of Richard Goldberg as a friend.

MICHAEL HOLGUIN, LONG BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: The parents believed that Mr. Goldberg was a nice guy. You know, the parents have to work. They knew they had basically a free babysitter.

WALSH: Goldberg had turned his backyard into a child's paradise, with swings and a pen for pet rabbits and ducks. Inside his home, kids could play with computer games and art supplies. But what no parent here knew, cops say, was that Goldberg's interest in their children was far from innocent.


KING: What did he do?

WALSH: Well, he's accused of molesting six little girls in one neighborhood. We think he's molested kids around the country. These guys are very transient and they're very mobile.

And actually, we have profiled Goldberg more on this show than on "America's Most Wanted," because your producers are always saying, "How come we can't catch this guy?" And I don't why we can't catch him.

KING: Do you know where he might be?

WALSH: We've had some tips that he was in California. We've had a lot of tips on Goldberg. But he's the classic pedophile. You know, it's not the guy under the bridge with the trench coat. It's a guy like this, that looks like he's harmless.

You know, he always goes out with women that are divorced with kids. He shows great interest in the kids, but not the woman, which is a good red flag. But he always had the set-up in the yard, as you saw, the ducks, and the games, and all that type of stuff. And I don't know why we can't catch him. But he's been on the FBI's ten-most wanted list for years.

KING: This is weird. In a perverse way, do they love kids?

WALSH: They say they love kids. I think they love the domination. I think they love the power trip of kids. And I think that most of them that we've ever talked to -- or most of them that have been interviewed -- are almost sociopathic, because they have no guilt about it.

They believe that society is wrong and they have the right to sodomize or molest an 8-year-old girl or a little boy or whatever, and they don't think they've done anything wrong. They think we're the ones that are crazy.

KING: Very small percentage kill, right?

WALSH: Some progress to the killing. I mean, we're seeing a lot more of it than usual.

KING: Why?

WALSH: Well, because they go in and out of jail. They know that they're vilified in jail, but they're always in the disordered sex offender wing. They can't go in the general population, because they'll die.

Now, I say they put the young guy in there that might have robbed a 7-11 or the guy who cheated on his taxes -- he's down in the yard taking his chances. I wish the child molesters were down in the yard.

But you know, they're just always the model prisoner. They always get out. And they just keep going. They just keep going.

KING: Your personal case makes it hard to be objective. Do you have any pity or compassion for them?

WALSH: I don't. I think once you cross that line -- I mean, I don't think you can imagine that beautiful 6-year-old son of yours being molested, or sodomized, or raped, or whatever.

KING: Inconceivable.

WALSH: Inconceivable, isn't it? And it is to me, and it is to the average person. And I think, once they've crossed that line, they should be tracked.

They should be in jail. The penalty should be much stiffer than they are. And that's what we're trying to change now. I don't have any pity for them. They do horrible things to children.

KING: What's the Lunsford law?

WALSH: Well, you know Mark Lunsford, Jessica Lunsford's dad, heartbroken. We took him up to Tallahassee. He and I went up there. We had a great press conference.

KING: That was a great day.

WALSH: Oh, we had the Florida Sheriff's Association, the prison- keepers. We had the, you know, chiefs of police of Florida, the battered women shelters from all around the state. And he got that law passed.

KING: Which says?

WALSH: It has monitors and ankle bracelets for very serious offenders. You know, we put an ankle bracelet on Martha Stewart for what? You know, when these guys don't have them on there. And for the 25 years to life for anybody that molests a child under 14-years- old.

It was a good stop -- I mean, a good start. And it was passed out of passion. And he did a good job.

KING: We'll take a break and be back with more of John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted." More cases to look at, and we'll discuss some other issues, as well. Don't go away.


WALSH: Goldberg enjoys fishing and hunting. Police say, since he fled Long Beach, he's visited relatives in Rumson, New Jersey, and has been spotted in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Take a close look at this new picture of Goldberg. It's an artist rendering of how his looks may have changed since he's been on the run. Agents think he might have stopped dyeing his hair and could have shaved off his mustache. If you have any information about Richard Goldberg, please call our hotline.




WALSH: Police say the man with the chainsaw is a child predator. His name is Fred Wanamaker. And he's charged with molesting several boys over the course of 12 years.

Cops say he befriended the kids as a Boy Scout leader in Central Virginia. When one boy got too old for him, cops say he would move on to a younger one. Wanamaker usually wears glasses. His voice could be another clue to finding him. Take a listen.

FRED WANAMAKER, WANTED FUGITIVE: Chop it up, Mike? I can chop the branches off it.


KING: The phone number to call, if you know the whereabouts of any of these, or spot them, is 1-800-CRIME-TV. And you're completely anonymous, right?

WALSH: Absolutely guarantee it. Don't trace calls, don't tap calls. Just give us the tip.

KING: What's this story?

WALSH: This Fred Wanamaker, you know, we keep talking about the classic pedophile, that they're not that scary guy. This guy was a Boy Scout leader, trusted authority figure in the community. And he's wanted for molesting five boys, five little boys, three brothers.

And he continually molested them. These boys were too afraid to tell anybody. You know, they respected this guy. I don't know why we haven't been able to catch this guy, because I don't think he's got a lot of resources to stay out there, but we could show the piece and maybe somebody will have seen him.

KING: Is it easy to hide?

WALSH: Well, I think it is easy to hide, because it's a huge country. We have got 260 million people here. We have big transient states like where I live in Florida, Texas and California, where people are always moving.

It is so easy to change your identity. You can buy a bogus driver's license for ten bucks. I mean, you know where you saw the ICE guys from homeland security went and busted the people who give driver's license in Florida were making fake driver's licenses for 1,000 bucks. But you can buy them on the street for 20 bucks. So it's easy to hide.

KING: What do you make of this story about the accused guy of killing his own daughter and her friend? Assuming, now, he's the killer.

WALSH: He's alleged. We always have to say alleged, absolutely. You know, he's always been a bad guy. He was in jail during the custody battle over this little girl.

He threatened people with a chainsaw and all this type of stuff. He should have never been able to be near her, or somebody should have been tracking him. And if he did kill his daughter, which everybody thinks he did, he killed her little friend. I mean, there's so many loopholes in the system.

Here is a violent guy that should have been monitored, or stayed in jail longer, or at least they should have warned the wife and everybody, "He's getting out. He's out on patrol, and he may be coming after you or your daughter." And as a society, we should have protected them.

KING: Do you ever get used to violence?

WALSH: No. No. It still, you know -- I see the worst of society during the week. I see horrendous case after horrendous case. I see an escalation of violence in this country and the criminals becoming younger. And I see more predators killing kids.

But I never get used to it. It's just disgusting. I try to keep that same mental attitude that cops and prosecutors have. "It's our job. You have to be tough. Think of the victim, think of who's really being exploited, the victim."

My job is to go out and get them, and hunt them down, and put them back into the system. But it's still -- I mean, this case that we're talking about here, killing these two little girls, why? What kind of coward is that? What, to get even with the wife who's divorced? You want to punish her so bad that you have to take the life of your own daughter and another little innocent girl?

They're cowards. It's horrendous. I don't get it. And as a society, I don't think we care enough about these guys. Our prisons are full of people that have violated drug laws, do you know what I mean?

You go to a women's prison, and 80 percent of the women are in there for selling an ounce of pot or cocaine. They should be in rehab most of the time. I think we should focus in on the violent offenders, the people that exploit...

KING: The people who bother other people.

WALSH: Absolutely. And that should be the main focus. Those are the guys that should be in jail, and they should be in jail longer.

KING: Do you think you're making progress or -- I mean, you've caught how many people?

WALSH: Eight hundred and forty two fugitives. And that's a testimony to our fans worldwide. Those are guys that were un- catchable, that the police couldn't catch. And the average citizen stepped up to the place, and said, "I'm sick of it. I don't want to be a vigilante. I just will make that call."

So that encourages me, that citizen -- and the laws that we've gotten passed in the last few years have been incredible. I've been doing this for 23 years, going to Capitol Hill, to every state. I've been to every single state. But I see people getting involved. Instead of sitting back and complaining about society, I've got more support for these laws than we've ever had.

KING: They scoffed at you at first, right, the FBI, police?

WALSH: Well, actually, the FBI was the only supporter of the show initially. And we had a press conference with Director Sessions -- remember him, the director of the FBI -- and he was wonderful.

He said, "You know, I believe in John Walsh. I don't think this show is going to cross the line." But lots of local cops, who have learned to distrust the media over the years, said, "Well, what is this, reality television show? What are they going to do?"

But, you know what? Now we're universally accepted by law enforcement.

KING: We'll be right back with John Walsh. The DVD, by the way, is "The Safe Side." It's "Hot Tips to Keep Cool Kids Safe with People They Don't Know and Kinda Know." It's from John Walsh and Julie Clark, the creator of "Baby Einstein." We'll be right back.


WALSH: Wanamaker has a master ship captain's license and he's qualified to pilot virtually any ship in the world. Let's find him before he sails away for good. If you've seen Fred Wanamaker, please give us a call at 1-800-CRIME-TV.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Tom Morris, with one of our most mysterious missing child cases. It started at this Cleveland middle school one year ago today. Fourteen-year-old Gina DeJesus left school and started walking down this busy Cleveland street. She never made it home.


KING: Who are we looking for here?

WALSH: We don't know. She still hasn't been found, this little girl.

KING: This is a missing girl?

WALSH: Yes, missing 14-year-old girl.

KING: Do you presume? What do you do with stuff like this?

WALSH: Well, there's another little girl, you know, missing in that six blocks from Gina DeJesus. So the cops say they're not related. I say they're related. I mean, come on, you have got one 14-year-old girl and then another girl down the street six blocks away. They haven't found either girl, and they have no suspects. So we just keep doing...


KING: So on "America's Most Wanted," what do you do? Do you just show their pictures?

WALSH: Yes, we do missing children every single week. We do three or four missing kids. We talk about the circumstances of their missing and beg people to, you know, to call up, you know.

KING: There's some missing children that we never find out about. WALSH: Oh, God, there are.

KING: Sometimes they're stolen and raised by families. They're just stolen.

WALSH: Very few. Very few. A few, yes. We've gotten kids back, kids...

KING: Babies.

WALSH: Yes, oh, absolutely, there's no way to identify babies. They take them right out of, you know, maternity wards. But you know, there are literally thousands of parents that will never know where their kids are.

KING: How about runaway wives? Do we care that much about runaway women?

WALSH: Well, I, unfortunately -- you know, this runaway bride really set back the issue of missing women. The FBI have about 5,000 missing persons in their file. And I challenge you, or anybody, to name one of those women. We all know about Chandra Levy, only because Gary Condit was having an affair with her. So that was the issue.

So it is so hard to get the media to cover missing women. And lots of them are 19-, 20-year-old women. For example, Ted Bundy killed 29 women. And they were all listed as runaways. They weren't runaways. They were victims of murder, so to change these attitudes is something that we've been trying to do for years.

KING: We always know that you're out to capture people. There's an unusual case in which you may be on the other side. Wayne Williams, the Atlanta child murderer, he's in jail, convicted. He has always -- he's a serial killer -- always insisted he did not do it.

A lot of evidence contrary at the time. Books written about it. It went away. He's in prison. And now, the police chief in Atlanta wants to open up the case.

WALSH: Well, I think it's...

KING: Why isn't that a big, front-page story?

WALSH: I don't know why. It should be a big Main Street story. But I'll tell you what. That happened just before Adam was kidnapped and murdered. So several of the mothers in Atlanta had come to me, Camille Bell was one of them. Her son, Yusef Bell was murdered.

And three or four of those mothers were trying to help me with Adam's case. And we got to be very good friends. And they always talked about how they believed that Wayne Williams didn't kill their children.

KING: Didn't?

WALSH: That he may have killed seven or eight boys. Back then, there was no DNA. He was convicted on these iffy fiber situation. And that Wayne Williams is a small man and that some of the boys were 19-years-old and very big. A couple of them were 190, 200 pounds.

There was always speculation that it might be the Ku Klux Klan and they were covering it up. I don't think so. But there is a valid theory that possibly a few of them were copycat murders. When you have a serial killer, you'll have people that killer and use the same M.O.

I do know this: Revenue was lost. Atlanta is a big convention town. People were complaining that, you know, the economy was suffering. People were complaining that it needs to be solved.

KING: There was pressure to solve it?

WALSH: Oh, incredible pressure. And I think they just took the broad brush and said, "You're the guy for 29 murders." I really give this chief a lot of credit. We've got a lot of good forensic tools now. We've got DNA. They should re-open this case.

And I really believe that Wayne Williams -- I don't know if he killed some of them are not -- but I don't believe, and neither do a lot of those mothers and those parents, believe that he killed all those 29 boys.

KING: What does it do to you to know that, I think, 140 people have been released in America from death row based on DNA evidence. Ohio, Illinois has suspended all executions. What does that do to someone who is a hawk on crime?

WALSH: Well, I absolutely believe that nobody should be in jail if they're innocent. And I am...

KING: Naturally.

WALSH: And I am a great proponent of the DNA banks. We as a country that can put a man on the moon -- and I mean, you know, everybody uses BlackBerries day and night and can communicate across the country -- but yet we're almost 400,000 DNA rape kits behind that haven't been tested.

They just caught a guy in Ohio that confessed to 37 rapes. They had his DNA for three years. During that three years, he raped 17 additional women. He could have been off the street.

Now, what I say is that every death penalty case should be reviewed. See if there's any DNA. And if we had a national DNA bank, every state had to put convicted felons' DNA in there, we would get people out of jail.

In Florida, when we started our first DNA bank, it solved 88 cases in the first six months and got 11 people out of jail that were innocent. I'm a great proponent of national DNA banks and review every case. And get those innocent people out of jail.

KING: We can assume though, therefore, that some people have been put to death that didn't do it. And how do you redress that grievance?

WALSH: Well, I mean, that's a big failure in the system. And you know, I was never a great proponent of the death penalty. I say, unequivocally, if there is great evidence in DNA that there are certain people that should be sent to the next planet. They can come back as a dolphin, or a tree, or a butterfly, or whatever, but when they get out of prison, they kill again.

Arthur Shawcross in New York State killed two little children, and 8-year-old girl and a 10-year-old boy, ate part of their hearts. He was released after 15 years, and he killed 11 women in two years. So there are certain individuals that shouldn't be released if the evidence is overwhelming.

But I still believe that we should review it. Now, the guy who was asking for the death penalty now, the guy who is going to be executed...

KING: Tonight?

WALSH: Yes, exactly. There's no question that he killed these women.

KING: Serial killer.

WALSH: Yes, he's a serial killer. Eight women. He has been on death row for 21 years.

KING: In Connecticut.

WALSH: In Connecticut. It has cost that state multiple millions of dollars. They could have built ten homes for abused and molested children. In that case, he wants to die. He admitted it. There was overwhelming evidence. Send him to the next life.

But I do believe that every death row case should, if there's DNA -- because there are prosecutors that will deny the reopening of the case when there is DNA. That's crazy.

KING: We'll be right back with John Walsh. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether or not these cases are connected, police and the families of these two girls need your help. Gina DeJesus was last seen wearing a tan shirt with a light blue jacket and black pants. Amanda Berry has slick, sandy blonde hair and multiple piercings in each ear.

If you have any information about either of these missing children, please give our hotline a call right now at 1-800-CRIME-TV.


KING: We're back with the host of "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh. By the way, on May 25th, John will be back with us. Going to do a major show about Identi-Kit. That's a big day in America, a national day.

WALSH: National Missing Children's Day.

KING: Yes, and that night, John may be in Washington, but he'll be on our show with other panel members and discuss this incredibly pressing problem. And there is no better expert on it than John Walsh.

Let's talk about the case of Gary Lasher -- who is he, what are we after him for.

WALSH: This guy is accused of child molestation, kidnapping and sexual assault. He had a falling out with his wife. He...

KING: There he is.

WALSH: Yep. He -- this is a guy that is extremely dangerous -- kidnapped his wife and raped her, then he went to look for her to kill her, his wife, and he kidnapped his mother-in-law, raped her, put her in the trunk of the car. He was going to kill her. He beat her, and she got out of the trunk of the car while the car was moving and jumped out and saved her own life.

This guy is a low-life coward and he needs to be hunted down. There's no question that he's extremely dangerous. And he almost -- thank god that both these women are still alive.

KING: Where did this occur?

WALSH: He's wanted, I think, is it -- I'm not quite -- oh, Arizona, Prescott, Arizona, yep, and Oxnard, California. He's, you know, out there somewhere, and we've had tons of tips on this guy. But, I don't know why we can't catch him.

KING: By the way, we'll include calls if you want to call in and talk to John Walsh. They can start giving me the calls.

There's that BTK case. They got him.

WALSH: Well, you know what? I hope we played a role in that, because we were asked to come there and to taunt him. For years, they had taken the opposite, you know, we'll put in the paper, you can get help, et cetera, et cetera. When he first sent the first packet of evidence, he wanted publicity. He was afraid that he would go down in history as not as infamous as, say, Ted Bundy or one of these guys. And his desire for the psycho publicity -- he thought he was smarter than the cops, and so, our role was to go there and do a special and keep doing it and showing the evidence and taunting him, saying, you know, you think you're so smart. Come on, send us some more stuff. But, finally, it went down.

The terrible, horrible thing is, of course, that he never left that town. He terrorized that town, Wichita, and -- people forget that he killed four members of a whole family. His first killings were the husband and wife, and the an 11-year-old girl and 9-year-old boy. So, that's why I was hoping he'd get caught, was he was -- he was a child killer and his own ego took him down. He's right where he belongs, you know, right in jail now. Thank god for the victims. They finally caught him.

KING: What's happening May 28th with NASCAR?

WALSH: Well, you know, Nextel -- I believe Nextel is a great corporate citizen. They have these, you know, emergency trucks that they send if there's a hurricane or if there's, you know, wildfires and they give all the emergency medical guys -- the paramedics and the cops -- these Nextel phones or walkie talkies, because Nextel phone was the only thing that worked at ground zero.

So, they're great corporate citizen. They've decided to give an All-American Award and they can nominate -- you can nominate a paramedic. You can nominate a fireman or a cop. These are the unsung heroes of America. So, at the Charlotte 500 that the -- you know, Nextel sponsors NASCAR. That's their big race, the Nextel cup, that night, and I'm going to have the honor of giving out -- I don't know who it is. I'm going to give that award to that Nextel all-star.

KING: You'll be at the race that day?

WALSH: Yes, that night.

KING: Let's take a call for John Walsh. Carlton, Kentucky.

CALLER: Um, yes, I would just want today know what precautions can I take with a registered sex offender living a few houses down? Thank you.

KING: You have that situation, ma'am?

CALLER: Yes, a few houses down.

WALSH: I don't know why I can't hear it, but tell me.

KING: OK, if you didn't hear it, she has a registered sex offender living a few houses from her. Any special precautions she should take?

WALSH: Well, you know, the intention of Megan's Law was to let people know that sex offenders were near them. It's the old philosophy, when you had a bad dog in the neighborhood, you would tell your kids, don't go in that yard. You're going to get bit. Don't go near that. It's the same thing. The -- Megan's Law was passed because Megan Kanka, beautiful 4-year-old kid, was lured into a garage in a nice neighborhood by a convicted sex offender who was put on patrol and his parents took him in. He tortured this girl for hours and murdered her and then Megan Kanka's parents simply asked, why didn't we know that this guy was in the neighborhood? We would have told or we would've watched Megan closer. So, I think she should find out where all the registered sex offenders are in her neighborhood. That's an obligation of the police.

KING: What about with the one she knows, anything special? WALSH: Yes, well, she should find out if he's given the valid address and he's there. And she should tell her children, and I believe people should tell other members of the community who aren't sophisticated enough to know that they're there and say, this is a guy to avoid. If he's out in the yard and he's trying to talk to your kids, don't do it. Don't go in the yard. Don't go near the house. Watch out for him.

We had a registered sex offender who joined a church group and he wanted to teach Sunday school to little kids. Well, a lady in that church anguished whether she should tell the pastor. She did the right thing. She looked on the sex offender registry, Megan's Law, realized this guy, part of his patrol and probation, which is a privilege, was that he not be near children. He wanted to be that Sunday school teacher, and she did the right thing.

So, I tell people, find out who the sex offenders are and tell everybody in your neighborhood. Be aware that they're there.

KING: How many are known in America?

WALSH: Well, we have almost 600,000 convicted sex offenders, have been convicted (ph). Not only say (ph) the convicted ones should register, but, again, 100,000 of them are not complying. Patrol and probation is a privilege. But Megan's Law isn't tough enough because if these guys don't give a valid address, it's only a misdemeanor. For everybody else, it's a felony. Come on.

KING: We'll be right back with more of John Walsh. We'll also show you a little clip from that new DVD as well. Don't go away.


WALSH: As for Lasher, he is still on the run, and could be in Florida, southern California or down in Mexico. Lasher's worked as an emergency medical technician. If you know where Gary Lasher is, call our hotline at 1-800-CRIME-TV.


KING: We're back with John Walsh. Let's look now at this...Motley Crue case?

WALSH: Well, they have a die-hard fan named Tracey Gardner- Tetso.

KING: The rock band.

WALSH: Motley Crue is back on tour after all these years, all cleaned up, doing a good job. And this woman -- she's not a kid. She's 33-years-old, and she's been a Motley Crue fan for years. She was driving from Baltimore by herself to D.C. to see Motley Crue. She never made it. The band was made aware of it the next day and they have video of her driving through the tunnel outside of Baltimore, and then they have video of somebody driving her car into a motel parking lot, not her. So, Nicky Sixx and Tommy Lee are big fans "America's Most Wanted." They said, this is the show that catches the uncatchable, finds the unfindable. They put together at $10,000 reward -- their own money, their own personal money -- and came to us and said, look, could you put a national spotlight on this case?

We love our fans. She's a die-hard fan. The police have hit a brick wall. She hasn't used her cell phone or her credit cards. Unfortunately, I think there's foul play involved here. It's been since March 9th. But the parents, they've had big searches all around Baltimore. The parents are desperate. The not knowing is what kills you. But Motley Crue has drawn attention to it, and this is the perfect case. Nobody would know this woman was missing if Motley Crue hadn't gone around and said, help us find this woman.

KING: When you don't get them, it's frustrating to you?

WALSH: Oh, God, you know, I never give up. I've profiled some guys for 10 years. I mean, we've been on for 17 years. There's some guys that I've profiled for 17 years, two or three times a year. And we've caught guys that have been out there for 20 years, you know, that have been out there running around, like John List, the serial killer. He was out there for 20 years, and we caught him. So I don't believe justice delayed is justice denied. I say you just keep -- be dogged, stay on it, keep doing it.

KING: We're going to show a clip from it. Tell me about this "Hot Tips to Keep Cool Kids Safe."

WALSH: Well, there have been a lot of videos and safety stuff out there. And Julie Clark has got a great track record with the baby Einsteins of reaching children, young children. I say that parents -- first of all, you can't assume that it couldn't happen to you. It could happen to anybody. Number two, you have to open the lines of communication with your kids. And parents don't know what to tell their kids. Kids these days are pretty sophisticated. And They say to them, you know, your parents, tell me, what are the rules of protection? This is that video that you can sit down with your kids and go over it and go over it. And it's fun. There's characters in it. It's very light-hearted. And it's non-threatening. I think it's a pretty good tool.

KING: What role did you play? What role (INAUDIBLE).

WALSH: Well, I helped Julie. Julie is the producer. She shot the whole thing. She's really the genius behind it. And I gave her some of the tips, and we've checked it to make sure that it wasn't threatening. And 10 percent of the gross profits go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. So, we thought that we could make a dent in this need for education, solid information.

KING: What age group?

WALSH: It's for smaller kids. You know, from probably, I would say, 4, 5, you know. You could show it to them, they might not be able to absorb it, but at least you're broaching the issue, and right up on until I have a 10-year-old son who thinks it's really funny. He thinks it's really cool. KING: Should you watch it with your parents?

WALSH: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, too many people say, you know what? You should watch this. You should sit down and watch it with your kids. And the main thing is, open those lines of communication. About 80 percent of the crimes against children are by trusted authority figures, like the priest or the Boy Scout leader that we're talking about. This will tell your kids to say, hey, if you are being exploited, tell daddy, tell you. And you'll do something about it. You'll believe them.

So you absolutely should sit down with your kids. I say it empowers kids. It's -- knowledge is power.

KING: With what's going on in this country, one would think that every parent should.

WALSH: I just wish this was in every school. I wish that for all the kids that are being abused or exploited at home, where they're being made possibly tomorrow's criminals, you know, being physically or sexually exploited at home, who are they going to tell? I wish there were safety programs on the school curriculum so that they could tell the teacher. Now, in every state, it's mandatory for teachers to report physical or sexual abuse, and then they're protected from civil penalties if it turns out to be a false report. But teachers don't know that. And -- but this is mainly for parents and kids.

KING: Most people who turn out to be like this were treated somewhat like this as children?

WALSH: That's not true.

KING: Not true?

WALSH: That's a misconception.

KING: That's a myth?

WALSH: Yeah. We have people who work at our centers, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, that were victims of abuse, sexual molestation. They don't go out and hurt other people. Some of them were. A lot of people use that as an excuse. But now we're finding out that lots of them weren't sexually abused and weren't preyed upon. That's just their predeliction, that's just their preference, and they think they can get away with it.

KING: Why they have the predeliction, we don't know?

WALSH: Well, I believe, personally, after studying these guys for years and looking at all the reports, I believe it's a genetic aberration. I don't think that child molesters -- that this is learned behavior. We do know for a fact that a lot of times, child molesters, serial killers, serial child killers have great families. I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer's family apologized.

KING: Yeah, we had them on. WALSH: You had them on. I watched that show. It was a great show. They apologized for their son's behavior. He started out as a pedophile. He was first in jail for molesting and kidnapping a 14- year-old boy. When he got out on parole, they didn't track him. He went and kidnapped the boy's older brother and killed him to get even with the family. But he was never abused or molested.

KING: You can order this "The Safe Side" from?



WALSH: It's a Web site -- yeah.

KING: ... Web site, and as we go to break, watch a clip from it.


WALSH: Hot tip: Don't speak to people you don't know unless you're safe side adult is with you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey! We're here at the rec center, and it's safe side day! Look at all the people. It's packed! Remember the hot tip: Never speak to an adult, though, unless your safe side adult says it's OK. And never give any information about yourself to somebody you don't know, like your name or where you live.




WALSH: We can't let this night go by without remembering another officer who died in the line of duty during a routine traffic stop not too far from here. Now it's our job to scrape up the scum who did it.

Cops say it's this man, Armando Garcia. A violent thug who makes it no secret that he hates cops.

KEN GALLATIN, L.A. COUNTY SHERIFF: He's watched "America's Most Wanted" and said that if this ever happened to him, if a cop stopped me like that, I would kill him.


KING: This is the death of L.A. County Sheriff Deputy David March?

WALSH: Great cop. Hero cop. This lowlife, as David March was walking up to the car, he shot the cop repeatedly in the face, in the neck, murdered him. And I've met David March's wife, Terri. She is...

KING: There she is. WALSH: She's going up on Capitol Hill all the time, because we don't have an extradition treaty with Mexico. He's down in Mexico.

KING: You know where he is?

WALSH: We believe he is in Mexico. I've got about 15 fugitives...

KING: We don't have a treaty with...

WALSH: No. We've got an extradition treaty with 90-plus countries, we've lent Mexico billions of dollars. Remember the NAFTA treaty to save Mexico, the peso? And they won't send back these lowlifes. And Terri has tried for years to convince Congress to force Mexico, because we do give them so much help...

KING: Do we return theirs today?

WALSH: Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know why they hide these guys down there, let them hide. It's a terrible message. You kill and rape somebody, go to Mexico, you're OK.

KING: Nova Scotia, Canada, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Mr. Walsh.

WALSH: How are you.

CALLER: Good. Thank God there's somebody in the world like you.

WALSH: Thank you.

CALLER: I was just wondering, what do you think of this Young Offenders Act?

WALSH: I'm not familiar...

KING: Which one is that?

CALLER: Well, if you're too young to go to jail, we let you off.

KING: Oh, is this in Canada?


WALSH: You know something? I'm a great believer in being proactive, in getting kids before they become the serious offenders, and that we could and should try to rehabilitate juveniles. For example, Joe Arpaio, the sheriff in Arizona, has, in his juvenile facility, he has a high school and they have to go to high school.

But what we don't accept, and Canadians haven't accepted, is that 10 percent of the juveniles are really violent, violent. They cannot be rehabilitated. And like the adults, they need to be off the streets. And Canada and the United States seals their records when they get out at 19 or 21 years old. So, a cop like David March could pull over a very violent kid, who might have killed somebody and only spent six years in juvenile hall. The records aren't there.

First of all, you need to know the records. And number two, we have to, as a society, accept the fact that some of these kids are so dangerous, they can't be rehabilitated.

KING: Is there a cutoff age where you would never -- not -- would you jail an 8-year-old?

WALSH: No, absolutely. I would take it case by case. I don't see how they can pass these -- in Canada, these broad brush laws that every kid under 14 or 15 shouldn't be incarcerated. I mean, you've got 200-pound kids that are 14 years old that rape and murder people, and they should be separated from society.

I think we should be more proactive and take a look at these kids. But come on. Take it case by case.

KING: Do you think there's such a thing as a bad seed?

WALSH: I do. I do. I mean, lots of serial killers have said they don't know why they do it, and the analysis is that they're not insane. They may be sociopaths and have no guilt about it, but they're not insane. They don't want to live by the rules of society. You know, they always talk about how they killed small animals and they do this. Those identifiers there, I do believe in the bad seed. I mean, there is evil that walks this planet.

KING: Do you ever talk to them?

WALSH: I've interviewed a couple of them. See, I don't believe in giving them their 15 minutes of fame. I don't believe that you -- that's what they want.

KING: You wouldn't put them on?

WALSH: No. One time I did a serial murderer and rapist, because he kept claiming that he was a victim of racism. He was an African- American that had raped 17 women and killed four people, two of them small children. Well, that's ridiculous. He wasn't in the wrong spot 17 times, believe me. But he was so cold-blooded and so chilling and so intelligent that people said, oh, my God, for the first time, I've really seen what you're talking about, John. These guys are sociopaths.

But I don't like -- I hate it when magazines and magazine shows, you know, give them their 15 minutes of fame, because they're lowlife scumbags that didn't do anything in their life. And when they kill certain people, they want that infamous -- you know, that's their accomplishment. Don't give them that. Don't give them that accomplishment.

KING: We'll be back with more moments with John Walsh. Don't go away. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Police say Garcia goes by his street name, Chato (ph).


WALSH: He has his name, Garcia, tattooed on his left upper back. He could be hiding out with family in the Mexican state of Michoacan, or crossing the border to the U.S. where he has relatives in Northern California and Washington state. If you've seen Armando Garcia, call our hotline at 1-800-CRIME-TV.



KING: Back with John Walsh. I mentioned the 25th. He'll be with us the night of May 24th, which is only 12 days away, on that Identi-Kit show, the eve of the national day dealing with prevention of crime to kids.

Corbin, Kentucky, hello.

CALLER: Hello, how are you?

KING: Fine.

CALLER: Hello, John Walsh and Larry King and John Walsh. John Walsh, I wanted to ask you a question. My little boy was 14 and he was shot and killed and murdered, and I cannot get no help on my son's case. Can you help me with my son's case? It's driving me crazy.

KING: Did they arrest anyone?

CALLER: They blamed it on a little 11-year-old kid with no proof.


CALLER: And I'm having to do everything myself. And I'm tired and I'm being threatened.

KING: Where could she contact you?

WALSH: You know, if you would stay on the line, I'll get your name and address and I will -- I can't promise you that we'll do it, but I will definitely have one of our reporters, our top reporters, talk to you and look into it, because we have solved unsolvable cases.

KING: OK, now -- I don't know how to -- this is a new phone -- how to put it on hold.

WALSH: Yeah.

KING: Can you take it from...

WALSH: If you, if you...

KING: Can you take it, John? OK. They've got it.

WALSH: OK, great. And I will -- I promise you that we'll have someone talk to you, because I know what you need is justice.

KING: I don't know the hold button here. I don't know any button.

WALSH: That's all right.

KING: Are you involved in the Florida governor's race?

WALSH: Yes, I am. Charlie Crist is the attorney general in Florida.

KING: Attorney general.

WALSH: You know Charlie. He was a legislator for six years. He was the commissioner of education for two. He's been a great AG. He's a victim's advocate. I don't care about party. You know, over the years, it doesn't matter to me whether you're a Democrat or Republican as long as you're a loud voice. He's a great law-and-order guy. He introduced the Stop Act in Florida, which made Florida put our prisoners in prison and serve 85 percent of their sentence instead of 20 percent.

I think he would be a very good governor. And I filed these papers the other day to make a statement to the people of Florida, which is my home state, that if Charlie Crist gets elected, he and I are going to put together the most comprehensive state package, because most crimes against children are committed on the state level and tried on the level, on the state level, not the federal level.

So if we can get this packet of legislation passed, because Florida has been the first in many things. We had the first missing children clearinghouse, the first background check of teachers. I would take that to the other 49 governors and the other 49 AGs. Because we live in a country, Larry, of 50 little countries. And you got to go state by state. I think Charlie Crist could change things.

KING: Ever want to run yourself?

WALSH: No. I've been asked a bunch of states. My agenda is just is victims, law enforcement, criminal justice issues and children. I don't think I would have the patience to sit and talk to lobbyists and...

KING: How long are you going to do "America's Most Wanted"?

WALSH: You know, it's the most gratifying job on television. Seventeen years is an incredible time. I'll do it as long as the public watches, you know. Even though people perceive us as a public service, the ratings are important, and we're usually up there, but it's, you know what it is, Larry? It's a great vehicle for catching the uncatchable. But it also allows me to go around and change the laws. It's a great platform. And it's a great way to get people involved.

KING: Brings great satisfaction (INAUDIBLE).

WALSH: Unbelievable.

KING: You're remembering this for your son, aren't you?

WALSH: Oh, you know, I've always said it to you, that I wanted to make sure, my wife and I, that this little boy didn't die in vain. And the people that have helped me over the years, you know, change laws and to catch these fugitives, they made sure he didn't.

KING: They all ought to be called Adam's laws. Thanks, John, as always. See you on the 24th.

WALSH: Thank you for having me.

KING: And don't forget, "Hot Tips to Keep Cool Kids Safe With People They Don't Know and Kinda Know, Even the Hairy Ones." Right?

WALSH: Yeah.

KING: If you want to order it, A concept of John Walsh and Julie Clark. Julie Clark, the creator of baby Einstein.

Tomorrow night, Petra, the woman who hung on the branch during the tsunami. Her fiance died. Beautiful lady. She'll be here in this studio tomorrow night in New York.

And speaking of things beautiful, Aaron Brown, hey. "NEWSNIGHT." If we could call him in -- there he is, look at that. Look at that, John, look at that face. Oh, we love him.


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