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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Military Releases Bases It Wants Closed; Sainthood for John Paul II?; Why Can't Osama Be Found?
Aired May 13, 2005 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, the debate over a national ID, it's just intensified. There's been a new development, and it involves your Social Security card.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Base debate: Dozens of U.S. military bases target for closure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This information comes as a shock.
BLITZER: Thousands of jobs are on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are all profoundly disappointed.
BLITZER: Fast track to sainthood: A surprise announcement from the new pope about John Paul II.
First in: The CIA sent him to Afghanistan only days after 9/11. His mission, find and kill Osama bin Laden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually said he wanted me to kill Osama bin Laden and put his head in a box with dry ice and ship it back to him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" for Friday, May 13th, 2005.
BLITZER: Thanks for joining us. The wraps are off the Pentagon's long-awaited base closing plan. And it affects installations from Maine to Hawaii. The 33 major bases targeted are more than any of the previous four rounds of base closings. Scores of others would also be affected.
Today's announcement triggered immediate, often heated reaction from communities affected and the politicians who represent them. We have reports from all around the country.
Let's begin, though, with our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, it's been ten years since the Pentagon has gotten permission from Congress to close bases. And they're clearly making up for lost time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will hear us. And they will turn this around!
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The Pentagon's plan sparked predictable outrage at bases like Maine's Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. The proposed closings, including Virginia's sprawling Ft. Monroe, home of the Army's Training and Doctrine Command, are the biggest ever recommended by the Pentagon. That comes as a rude shock after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hinted, just a day earlier, his shutdown plans would be scaled back.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The department is recommending fewer major base closures than had earlier been anticipated due in part to the return of tens of thousands of troops.
MCINTYRE: What the Pentagon unveiled is essentially the mother of all base closings. 33 major bases closured, including the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and the New London Submarine Base in New England. Fort Gillem and Fort McPherson in Georgia, Ft. Monroe, Virginia, Pascagoula Naval Station, Mississippi, Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota and Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico.
The mayor of nearby Clovis, New Mexico, is vowing to save his base.
MAYOR DAVID LANSFORD, CLOVIS, NEW MEXICO: It is our resolve is to put forth the greatest fight that this community has ever put forth, because we have the right cause, the right people and the resources to win.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In addition to 33 major bases that would be closed, 29 would be significantly downsized. And here's the big number, Wolf, 775 smaller bases and facilities either closed or reorganized. That is more than almost three times all of those facilities in the previous four rounds combined.
Now, there's a reason the Pentagon's list is so long this time. It's a realization here at the Pentagon that this is such a politically painful process it's unlikely they'll get another chance to close bases any time soon -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much.
For people who depend on the bases for their livelihood, they knew this day was coming. Most dreaded it, many went to great lengths to prepare for it. CNN's Mary Snow has been talking to people at one base slated to be closed. She's joining us now live from Ft. Monmouth in New Jersey -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, between military personnel and civilian employees, about 6,000 people work at this base. Compare that to the town's population of about 14,000. So small business owners, in particular, depend in large part on this military base, and they are bracing for the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): You can see the military's presence outside the gates of Ft. Monmouth, from the local barber shop to the town center. For businesses here, the military's presence is also felt.
Take Sam Finno's Pizzeria, which draws a big lunch crowd from the base.
SAM FINNO, PIZZERIA OWNER: I would say that I would lose probably about 50 percent of my business.
JOHN POITRAS, AFGE: The economic impact to this area is going to be pretty devastating.
SNOW: John Poitras represents civilian employees who work at the Army research base that employs almost 5,000 civilians and more than 600 military members.
POITRAS: That's dollars and cents that goes into the economy here. Revenues for schools, businesses.
SNOW: Businesses like Branch's Catering.
JOHN LOMBARDO, BRANCH'S CATERING: People like my cooks and dishwashers and everyone who would be affected. So, we're going to definitely make a strong case for ourselves.
SNOW: John Lombardo based his business close to Ft. Monmouth. He is part of a group fighting to keep it open.
The mayor of Eatontown says this isn't the first time there's been talk about closing Ft Monmouth. This time he's not certain if it will remain open. But he knows there is a plan B.
MAYOR GERALD TARANTOLO, EATONTOWN, NEW JERSEY: If you look at what's happening real estate-wise in this area, I'm sure there's developers chomping at the bit with the news of Ft. Monmouth's closing. We're dealing with between 600 to 800 acres of prime real estate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And right now, hundreds of residents have gathered for a town hall meeting with state politicians. Lawmakers here claim that the total economic impact for the state of New Jersey could add up to about $3 billion if the base does close -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Mary Snow at Ft. Monmouth in New Jersey. Mary, thanks.
Even as the base closing was being handed out, some lawmakers were vowing to do everything they can to stop it all together, or at least protect their state's respective bases. Following that part of the story up on Capital Hill, our congressional correspondent Joe Johns -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one senator called these recommendations stunning, devastating, outrageous. Whatever you call it, it was a tough day for some on Capital Hill.
Apparently, we don't have the tape.
Essentially, what happened today, an armed service honor guard fanned out across the Capital, delivering the news. For many, it was bad. Of course, many of the members of Congress were effectively already in their states trying to do damage control.
Now, a lot of people, obviously, were hit very hard and a lot of states, including Maine, Mississippi, Connecticut, South Dakota. Political clout, absolutely no shield.
Former Republican majority leader Trent Lott took a hit. The Pentagon recommended closing the Pascagoula Naval Station. And Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who beat the Democrat Tom Daschle in last year's election, also took a hit.
As you know, he ran last time, saying he might be able to protect the Ellsworth Air Force Base. Now, he's going to have to try to campaign to keep it.
Of course, senators from states that got off lightly even had something to criticize, including one Senator from Texas, of course, who said, the installations slated for closure included one of the ones that create humvees and put armor on humvees there in Texas. He's upset with that.
So a lot of complaints, Wolf. And people, of course, are going to try to appeal this. But it's very tough, as you know, to appeal these recommendations -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And basically what happens, Joe, is that this is a recommendation. The Base Closure Commission is now going to review it, hold hearings. They will then make a final recommendation. Almost always very similar to what the Pentagon wants. The president will then sign off on it formally. And then the House and the Senate will have an opportunity to consider it. What happens then?
JOHNS: Well basically, the House and the Senate have one opportunity, and that is to vote it down. If they do nothing at all, of course, the recommendations go into effect. They get one opportunity to simply say no. And if they can't all agree to do that -- even if they agree to do it, there's a problem, because of course the president of the United States could say no.
BLITZER: And they have 45 days to do something. If they do nothing, it automatically goes into effect.
Joe Johns reporting for us from Capitol Hill. Thanks very much. More news coming up. A major announcement, in fact, coming from the Vatican. Pope Benedict XVI puts his predecessor, Pope John Paul II on the fast track to sainthood.
Also this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...operates in total secrecy. Even the Taliban leadership didn't know where he was going on a day to day basis, let alone our guys who were following him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Evading capture: An update on the hunt for Osama bin Laden from the former CIA station chief once ordered to kill him.
Border crossings: Would a new national I.D. card slow the flood of illegal immigrants into the United States? A debate heating up. We'll take a closer look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Pope Benedict XVI has announced the beginning of a process that could lead to saint hood for his predecessor, John Paul II. Waiving the standard five-year waiting period, Benedict has ordered church officials to begin an immediate study of John Paul's life. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston has the story in Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pope Benedict XVI making the announcement, the case for the beatification of John Paul II is now open. His proclamation drew immediate approval.
(APPLAUSE)
ECCLESTON: John Paul II died on April 2nd, leading to widespread calls from Catholics worldwide for him to be made a saint. In the hours following his death and at his funeral mass, tens of thousands waved banners and chanted "Santo Subito," immediate sainthood.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: This is the way that processes for saint hood are supposed to work in the Catholic Church. It's supposed to start with a strong popular devotion, but the church then comes in after the fact and ratifies. And that -- at that funeral mass, there's no better evidence that there's a strong popular devotion for this man than that.
ECCLESTON: The road to saint hood is arduous and steeped in tradition. A commission of historians will be appointed to gather information, evidence, and compiles documents. This will be examined by theologians, cardinals and bishops. There findings must then be approved by the pope. ALLEN: Then, in order for the person to be beatified, there has to be a miracle that has to be documented, that has to be first passed by a group of physicians who can assure that there wasn't any scientific explanation for it, that it was an instant, but it was lasting. And that it was -- can't be explained any other way.
ECCLESTON: These are the types of reports the Vatican will be analyzing. An American Jew cured of a brain tumor after attending mass with the late pope. A Mexican boy stricken with Leukemia who recovered after a papal kiss. Even a cardinal who regained his ability to speak after John Paul touched his throat. In normal circumstances, five years must pass between the death of a person in line for beatification and the start of the process to avoid emotion playing a part.
However, John Paul II dispensed with this rule himself when in 2003 he beatified Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
ECCLESTON (on camera): John Paul II, beatified and canonized more people than any other pope. The cardinal in charge of the Vatican Office of Sainthood, said the decision to fast track the late pope is an acknowledgement of the will of the Catholic faithful, an extraordinary event for someone many call an extraordinary man.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks, Jennifer.
Let's take a quick look at some other news making headlines "Around the World."
Security forces in eastern Uzbekistan opened fire on thousands of protesters. Leaders of the demonstration said as many as 20 civilians were killed and dozens were wounded. Shooting erupted after protesters stormed a jail to free people accused of Islamic extremism.
More unrest in India-controlled Kashmir. Police fired tear gas and clashed with hundreds of angry demonstrators protesting a grenade attack. The blast yesterday killed two women and wounded dozens of others, including numerous children outside a school.
Anti-American protests in Afghanistan are spreading outside the country. Hundreds of members of the militant group Hamas took to the streets of Gaza to protest alleged desecration of Islam's holy book by U.S. Forces guarding detained Muslims at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. At least 15 people have been killed in clashes this week in Afghanistan between security forces and protesters. And that's our look "Around the World."
State of emergency extended. How the recent flare-up of violence in Iraq will affect the length of time American troops will have to stay in that country.
Is the U.S. military closing in on the terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? There's some new information from a former CIA station chief in the region. We'll speak with him.
Also ahead -- a celebrity lawyer once on the Jackson defense team is forced to testify today. We'll go live to the courthouse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Violence from Iraq's insurgency is now reaching record levels with hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians killed in recent weeks.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al Jaafari today extended the state of emergency in his country for another 30 days, martial law essentially, in a country where violence continues to be a daily occurrence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): The violence in Iraq is unrelenting and brutal. It is Iraqi civilians and security forces who are dying. As many as 400 Iraqis killed in the last two weeks, according to officials.
Insurgent attacks now number around 60 a day. It's lower than the level before the January election, but more deadly. In April alone, 135 car bombs, the most ever.
Even if the violence decreases, a sober assessment on how long the U.S. might be involved in Iraq.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: One thing we know about insurgencies, is that they last three, four years to nine years. These are tough fights.
STARR: A Democratic Iraqi government and Iraqi security forces train to control the country even with escalating violence remains the strategy.
MYERS: This is not something that we're going to go out and knee jerk to every time. This is a thinking and adapting adversary. They are thinking and adapting. The vehicle-borne improvised explosive device is a very tough device to thwart.
STARR: A senior U.S. military official tells CNN it is the number of suicide car bombers, those responsible for most of the carnage, that has been a surprise. In Baghdad, where dozens of car bombs have gone off, commanders say Iraqi security forces are on the job, but the violence has become worse.
COL. JOSEPH P. DISALVO, U.S. ARMY: And they're targeting innocent civilians with the suicide/homicide bombers in their cars. The actual number of events have decreased, to tell you the truth, over the past month. However, the fewer events are a little bit more lethal, because they're targeting innocent civilians.
STARR: The U.S. offensive in western Iraq is aimed at wiping out a haven for foreign fighters stockpiling car bombs and weapons. But another surprise when insurgents stood their ground and fought. Now, dozens captured and killed, nobody knows how many may have fled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: So, Wolf, just how strong at this point is the insurgency? U.S. commanders say they believe it still has the same capacity to launch attacks that it had about a year ago -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Barbara Starr reporting for us at the Pentagon, thanks..
For more, we're on the story with CNN's senior Baghdad correspondent Jane Arraf. She's joining us from the Iraqi capital. And CNN's Kathleen Hays. She's joining us in New York.
First to you, Jane. What are you hearing? What are you seeing? What are you sensing in Iraq right now about the level of this insurgency?
JANE ARRAF, CNN SENIOR BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, certainly it's a worry to everybody. It's a worry to people on the streets. It's a worry to this new government. There is so much at stake here.
And what they're facing are, as Barbara mentioned, these numbers that just keep going up. But while it might seem it's all violence all the time here, there are millions of Iraqis, Wolf, who are getting on with their daily lives. And we're going to be following a couple of those people around Baghdad to see what it's like to get up in the morning, go to work in Baghdad and try to lead a normal life.
BLITZER: CNN's Jane Arraf is a very, very courageous reporter.
Kathleen, a lot less dangerous covering New York City, I should say. But the war in Iraq certainly is having some sort of impact on the overall U.S. economy. Talk a little bit about that.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Wolf, the big impact is on the budget and the budget deficit. And these base closings clearly a way to try to take your Pentagon, your military dollar and stretch it further. The problem is, it's going to shrink dollars in some communities.
Now, if you talk to a bull, they'll say, hey, the economy is doing fine. People are spending money. But people point out, it's a bifurcated economy. Low income people hit by high gas prices. Now we'll see small businesses hit in these communities.
And in a place like Bangor, Maine, where there's big submarine base closing, the question is, what is coming come in, what industry is going to come in and replace it? I'm looking at that story very closely, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Kathleen Hays and Jane Arraf, two of our best. Thanks very much.
And this note to our viewers, you can hear a lot more from Jane and Kathleen this Sunday "ON THE STORY," where CNN women have the inside word on the stories they're covering. "ON THE STORY" airs every Sunday morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern, an excellent program. If you haven't seen it, you'll want to tune in starting this Sunday, 10:00 a.m..
How close did U.S. forces come to capturing Osama bin Laden? And where is bin Laden right now? Just ahead, my conversation with retired CIA insider Gary Schroen.
Also, illegal immigrants continuing to come across the U.S. border. Are redesigned Social Security cards part of the answer to this problem?
And super size: Big announcements from the fast food chain McDonald's. What's the potential political -- yes, political impact. Our Carlos Watson, as he does every Friday, has the "Inside Edge."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. In our CNN "Security Watch." With last week's capture of al Qaeda's third in command, is the United States any closer to catching up with Osama bin Laden? A former CIA station chief in the region, Gary Schroen, was sent back to Afghanistan right after 9/11 with orders, he says, to kill bin Laden and bring his head back packed in ice.
His new book is entitled "First In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And now joining us is Gary Schroen. Congratulations on this book. It reads like a novel, like a thriller, but it's all true. It's amazing the kinds of experiences you had.
Let's get right to the issue at hand. Why can't the U.S. find Osama bin Laden?
GARY SCHROEN, AUTHOR "FIRST IN": Primarily because he's hiding in one of the most inaccessible areas in the world on that border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I think he's in the northern areas about (INAUDIBLE). Rugged terrain, even if you put troops in there, it would be difficult to find him, just as we had trouble finding that fellow down in North Carolina for over five years.
But he's also being protected by the tribals there who hate the government and who admire him. And so, without Pakistani full cooperation, it's really, really like looking for a needle in a haystack.
BLITZER: Well, when you say without the Pakistani full cooperation, they've been very helpful, the president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, in this war on terror since 9/11.
SCHROEN: Absolutely. They kind of had to be forced kicking and screaming into it, because they were the primary supporters of the Taliban. But once they began to cooperate in the cities around the country since September 11, we've captured hundreds of al Qaeda terrorists. It's only in these tribal areas of Pakistan where they're control is weak and where there's great resistance to the Pakistani government that they have been less than fully cooperative.
BLITZER: Now, I've heard you make an explosive charge that the government of Pakistan, President Musharraf, that they will help the United States find all sorts of relatively low level types, but they really don't want to help the United States find Osama bin Laden or his deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri.
SCHROEN: That's my impression after almost four year of trips back to Afghanistan and looking at the situation on the ground. There's a lot of things that they could be doing. It would be politically costly. But I -- and I just don't think the Musharraf government is willing yet to do that.
BLITZER: But do you have any hard evidence that the U.S. and others, perhaps, were on the verge of getting their hands around Osama bin Laden and that Pakistan did something to prevent that deal from being completed?
SCHROEN: No. The closest we came -- we have come in recent times was at Tora Bora in the end of 2001 and early 2002, when bin Laden and his guys were able to slip across the border.
BLITZER: In Afghanistan?
SCHROEN: In Afghanistan going into Pakistan. It's true...
BLITZER: Do you know for sure they slipped from Tora Bora into Pakistan?
SCHROEN: I'm absolutely convinced of it.
BLITZER: On the basis of what?
SCHROEN: Just my own knowledge of what was happening there and the intelligence we were gathering as the battle evolved.
BLITZER: Because, as you remember, during the presidential campaign John Kerry kept accusing President Bush of outsourcing the hunt for Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora, that he was within the grasp of the U.S., but they decided to let the Afghans or the Pakistanis take over.
SCHROEN: It wasn't a callous decision. There was -- we did use Afghan tribals to try to block those escape routes out of Tora Bora, out of Afghanistan, because we really didn't have enough troops to do the job ourselves totally, to do both sides of that battle. And the locals had intimate knowledge of the trails. Unfortunately, it turned out that most of the guys that we were hiring were supporters of the Taliban or sympathetic to them and very sympathetic to bin Laden.
BLITZER: In your book, you write this, the book, "First End." "I knew that the only way to effectively get at bin Laden was to go after him in Afghanistan. And the only way to effectively chase him in that country was to eliminate the Taliban forces protecting him." That was done. The Taliban forces were effectively eliminated. The whole question, though, over human intelligence -- the U.S. has great electronic, eavesdropping, satellite reconnaissance, photography, but there's been a lot of criticism that your profession, an agent, an officer on the ground, a clandestine officer, that there simply aren't enough human assets to get the job done.
SCHROEN: We chased bin Laden -- I personally was involved in chasing him from Islamabad as chief of station there, from 1997 to '99 and then watched that effort evolve. We had a lot of human assets on the ground, Afghans that could operate there effectively. But the man operates in total secrecy. Even the Taliban leadership didn't know where he was going on a day to day basis, let alone our guys who were following him.
BLITZER: The other charge you make, which is very explosive, controversial, as well as that, that this war the U.S. has engaged in Iraq really has undermined a much more important agenda. You write this. "Given the total preoccupation with Iraq, I am not confident that the U.S. government will make the policy adjustments necessary to improve conditions for the success of the Democratic experiment in Afghanistan or refocus diplomatic and military efforts back to the south Asian region in order to capture Osama bin Laden and defeat al Qaeda."
In effect, what you're saying is that Iraq, the military occupation there, has undermined the search for Osama bin Laden.
SCHROEN: I think that's true up to a point. Two points to that question. One was supporting the Karzai government, and our amount of aid is probably $3 billion a year. A lot of money, but not nearly enough to improve conditions. The local -- the current rioting going on in Kabul City and other cities around the country in Afghanistan, is demonstration that their conditions are still tenuous there.
BLITZER: That rioting in Jalalabad, especially, because of a "Newsweek" report that interrogators at the U.S. Naval at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba desecrated the Koran in front of these prisoners, these detainees, and Muslims are outraged by that.
SCHROEN: And rightly so. It's one of the most prohibitive things that one can do in Islam is to deface the holy Koran. And to do that was inviting this kind of negative reaction in Afghanistan. And I'm surprised if it hasn't -- doesn't resonate around the Muslim world.
BLITZER: You still think, though, that when all is said and done, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda terrorist in Iraq, all of those guys are going to be rounded up sooner rather than later.
SCHROEN: I -- I honestly do. We're putting an incredible amount of effort that goes on behind the scenes that the American people don't see in trying to track him down. The arrest -- the successful arrest by the Pakistani authorities of al-Libbi, the number three guy who replaced Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, just recently up in the northern area is a huge step forward. If we can convince the Pakistanis that they need to really take on the effort and continue that effort in that area to try to track down bin Laden.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Abu Farraj al LIVE EVENT, this nominal number 3 in al Qaeda. I know you're not active in the CIA right now, but help our viewers understand what happens to a guy like this or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the earlier number 3 in al Qaeda, who's been a U.S. prisoner for a couple of years. How do -- how do they try to get information out of these guys, active information, information that's actionable, as they say, that can help find others?
SCHROEN: Well, actually, with this fellow, al-Libbi, the Pakistanis have a very strong interest in holding him because he is supposedly responsible -- he's accused of planning the two assassination attempts against President Musharraf. With Khalid Sheikh Mohammed they turned him over to us pretty quickly, and let us take him into custody. I honestly don't know where he was taken, but he was...
BLITZER: A third country.
SCHROEN: A third country someplace, where he was subjected to, I guess, pressure. I don't think he was tortured, but he was put under a lot of pressure.
BLITZER: Is it physical pressure or psychological?
SCHROEN: More psychological, loud music and things like that.
BLITZER: Because by all accounts, he's been talking a lot.
SCHROEN: Well, and I think finally what really broke him was that we actually had people go in who spoke very, very good Arabic, native Arabic, who actually were kind to him and talked to him. And he began to talk. And once they -- once he opened up, they were able to do it much better than any kind of coercive means. And unfortunately, that's probably what al-Libbi is going through right now in Pakistan.
BLITZER: Here's another quote from your book "First In: A Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan," because you were, first in, literally first in. You write this, "In Northern Virginia, the morning of 11 September, 2001, it was beautiful with clear blue skies and mild temperatures that gave just a hint of fall. That morning I left my home in Alexandria, Virginia, an hour later than my past routine had called for, having entered into the CIA's 90-day retirement transition program just 11 days earlier."
You were planning on retiring?
SCHROEN: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Leaving the CIA. But within days, you were first in in Afghanistan searching for Osama bin Laden. This is before the U.S. bombing of Afghanistan began? SCHROEN: Absolutely. And I left that afternoon from the CIA, dejected because I thought, well I'm in the retirement program. I'm going to have -- play no part in this hunt for bin Laden, and fighting the war against terrorism that just has been declared. And yet three days -- four days -- three days later, actually, I was called before Mr. Coffer Black and told that I was going to -- offered me the leadership of the team to go into Afghanistan.
BLITZER: And he had a specific instruction to you, Cofer Black, who was in charge of counterterrorism at the CIA, he's now over at the State Department. He said he wanted you to capture Osama bin Laden?
SCHROEN: Well, he actually said he wanted me to kill Osama bin Laden and put his head in a box with dry ice and ship it back to him.
BLITZER: And you said?
SCHROEN: And I said I'll do my best to follow the first part and kill him. I don't know what I'd do about dry ice in Afghanistan, but we'll improvise.
BLITZER: And were there smiles, snickers, was he half serious?
SCHROEN: He was half serious . I think what we -- you had was, we were just days after the attacks. He was trying to -- to -- he, more than just about anybody within the CIA, stood up and was really pushing, this is a disaster, but we're going to take the gloves off. We're going to get bin Laden and his al Qaeda. And this was the kind of bravado that would kind of buck you up before, especially our team, before we went off by ourselves to go into Afghanistan.
BLITZER: Was there or is there a U.S. law that would prohibit you from going out and killing Osama bin Laden? He's not necessarily the leader of a state or anything like that.
SCHROEN: Under normal circumstances, yes, there is a prohibition. But I think that the after 9/11 that there was official sanction from the administration to go after this man and eliminate him.
BLITZER: The book is called "First In." Gary Schroen is the author. Congratulations on the book, Gary. Thanks for joining us.
SCHROEN: Thank you very much, Wolf. It's been a pleasure to be here.
BLITZER: And please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Making Social Security Cards more secure. That's the goal of one proposal. Critics, though, say it smacks of big brother and a national I.D. We'll show you what both sides are saying.
Also -- Michael Jackson's former lawyer becomes a witness in his child molestation trial. Plus -- is there any hope left for Social Security reform? Congress is back. So is Carlos Watson. He has "The Inside Edge." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now more on our "Security Watch." We've heard a lot about the debate over Social Security. There's another debate, though, that's under way involving Social Security cards. There's a new proposal in Congress to change the cards. And our Brian Todd has been looking into this story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, imagine a new Social Security card with your picture and your electronic signature on the back. It's raising a big debate over security, privacy and illegal immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Hiding in the floorboards of pickup trucks, poking through fences, fording rivers -- the methods of entry into the United States are endlessly creative for millions of illegal immigrants. Methods of staying and working are equally so, including the purchase of fake Social Security cards.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, SECURITY ANALYST: Social Security cards right now are a problem from a security point of view. They're a very significant breeder document for other forms of identification. It's very easy to get a Social Security card. Many are reissued over and over. There are many more Social Security cards in circulation today than there are people in the United States.
TODD: A problem that Republican Congressman David Dreier of California believes he can solve. Dreier is pushing legislation that would upgrade the security of Social Security cards with digitized photos, electronic signature strips on the back.
But it doesn't stop there. The bill would bring much tougher penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants or fail to verify their work eligibility. And would add 10,000 new agents in the Department of Homeland Security who would enforce those rules.
REP. DAVID DREIER, (R) CALIFORNIA: If we see three, four, five really good crackdowns on those employers, especially big companies out there knowingly hiring people illegally, we're going to see sort of like compliance with the Internal Revenue service. It's not just done out of patriotism, it's done because you might face a penalty.
I think we'll see a diminution in the number of illegal hirings.
TODD: Dreier and his aides are quick to point out that this would not be a national I.D. card, because it would only have Social Security and legal status on it. And in principal would not be used for identification, like the new driver's licenses approved by the president just this week. Others are skeptical. FALKENRATH: Everything else about the card is perfect for identification purposes: there's a name, there's a number, there's a picture, there's a digital fingerprint -- or digital signature. And so it is, in many respects, a national I.D. card even though on the card itself, it says not to be used for identification purposes.
TODD: The card's information would also go into a huge database monitored by the Department of Homeland Security, which doesn't sit well with privacy advocates.
JAY STANLEY, ACLU: What this will do is create an enormous database in Homeland Security that will be used to track individuals. And it will have far more effect on Americans and their privacy than it will on illegal employment. It's very intrusive, and it violates the American ethos that the government leaves you alone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Now, despite Congressman Dreier's insistence, CNN is told that many in Congress are concerned that this will be a national I.D. card, which is difficult politically. Groups like the ACLU even joined forces with ultraconservatives against it because of the quote "Big Brother" issue.
With that resistance, and a belief that the restaurant, hotel and other industries might fight this because of the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, the chances of this passing are considered uncertain -- Wolf.
BLITZER: At least at this time. Thanks very much, Brian Todd, for that report.
Once again, as always, remember to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
And this note. The president's national security adviser Stephen Hadley will join me this Sunday on LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk. That airs Sunday, noon eastern, here on CNN.
Coming up at the top of the hour, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Lou is standing by in New York with a preview, as always -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Well thank you. At 6:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, we'll be reporting on the Pentagon's huge military base closing plan. Tens of thousands of military and civilian jobs will be lost if the Pentagon has its way. Communities all over this country will be affected.
Also, another American soldier has been killed in Iraq. Insurgents sharply increasing the number of suicide attacks. How strong is the insurgency? We'll have that SPECIAL REPORT for you.
And Cuba arresting hundreds of young people who have committed no crimes. The State Department calls the round-up outrageous. We'll have that special report from Havana.
All of that and a great deal more coming up in just a few minutes here on CNN. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Lou Dobbs always has an excellent show. Thanks, Lou, very much.
When we come back, on the stand in the Michael Jackson case, the man who once was hired to help defend the pop star against child molestation charges -- guess what -- he's back involved. A live report coming from Santa Maria right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. He used to be the lead attorney, but today Mark Geragos is a witness in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial. CNN's Rusty Dornin is joining us now live outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. She has the latest -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's very unusual to see celebrity attorney Mark Geragos up on the witness stand. He was the lead defense attorney, as you said, for Michael Jackson for a brief period of time, from February '03, when all the fallout was occurring from that Martin Bashir documentary, "Living With Michael Jackson," up through his arrest. At that time, Michael Jackson let him go. Geragos was also involved in the Scott Peterson trial, and that's when Jackson hired Thomas Mesereau.
Great courtroom drama going on, though, questioning Geragos about his involvement. He talked about that he saw -- all he saw with Jackson was very childlike behavior. There was nothing nefarious, nothing sexual about the fact that he slept with these boys. He said he saw nothing that would indicate there was a conspiracy to hold these children or the family of the accuser captive, that he didn't see anything like that.
Now, the prosecutors really pressing Geragos on certain issues, kept talking about the idea that did Jackson ever tell him he slept with boys? Did he think that that was unusual? That sort of thing. And he was cool, calm and collected on the stand the entire time.
The prosecutor, on the other hand, was getting very heated, and at one point the judge stopped the proceedings and told the prosecutor, Ron Zonen, to calm down a little. He said, when I go horseback riding, I always tell the horses to lower their heads and slow things down a bit.
Now, it turns out that he's coming back next Friday. There is a problem, however, in terms of what he can answer. Apparently, he did not allow -- give a waiver to answer questions after Jackson's arrest. And that's what the prosecution wants to hear. So there's going to be some problems with that to be resolved next Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We'll watch it together with you, Rusty. Thanks very much.
Beyond the Beltway. How the fast food chain McDonald's is proving major social change can be created outside the nation's capital. Guess what? Carlos Watson will be standing by with the "Inside Edge," and that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Fireworks and uncertainty on Capitol Hill. From the House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to John Bolton and the filibuster fight. Joining us now to talk about the impact on legislation and other issues, our CNN political analyst Carlos Watson. He's in our Los Angeles studio, as he is every Friday.
Carlos, let's talk about Congress. Lots of attention being focused on Congress right now, and for good reason.
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Certainly, Wolf. And you know, a lot of the attention has been on the Senate, whether, as you said, it's the filibuster fight, whether it's a conversation about John Bolton's nomination. But the reality is that in the House, there may be two very interesting things to watch this upcoming summer.
One, are there a group of Republicans, mid-level Republicans, who, given all of Tom DeLay's troubles, may be freed up a little bit to flex their muscles and put their imprints on a number of bills, from energy bills to a new gang initiative bill, to even some of the upcoming legislation on education and other issues?
Number two, will Democrats in the House, who, since they're in the minority and given the way the House works they don't have much power, are there enough Democrats who have been working with Republicans that you'll start to see some limited, very limited Democratic imprints on some legislation going forward?
I think the place to watch is beginning next week in these battles over appropriations, everything from funding of schools to funding of health care to funding of veteran initiatives.
BLITZER: We pay a lot of attention to what's happening in Europe, in the Middle East, in Asia. We don't often pay a lot of attention to what's happening right in our own neighborhood, in Central America and Latin America, but you sense that could change.
WATSON: It could, Wolf. You know, this week, President Bush welcomed the leaders of several Central American nations to talk about a free trade agreement called CAFTA that he hopes to pursue. Two weeks ago, Condi Rice, secretary of state, made a rather historic trip to Latin America. So a lot more focus there, and it makes a good deal of sense.
Two interesting things are going on in Latin America that are worth our tuning into. One is as it relates to the economy. You see China, who over the last two years has signed a number of economic and trade agreements in Latin America, whether that's been with Brazil, Argentina, or other countries, and certainly that's caused concern among a number of American companies who expect to do a lot of trade with Latin America. So that's one reason we'll tune in.
Another reason we'll tune in is the country of Venezuela. There's a country that often is either the second or third largest exporter of oil to the United States, even though we think of Saudi Arabia and others. It's very prominent in that role. And they're about to launch a new TV station in cooperation with Cuba and a number of other countries who have been on the opposite side of the United States. Could have a major impact on ideological divides on questions, including a number of elections and even coups in Latin America. So another reason to stay -- pay close attention, rather.
BLITZER: All right, switching gears. You're paying attention to McDonald's. All right, tell us what's going on on the McDonald's beat.
WATSON: McDonald's made two fairly significant announcements this week. One of our largest corporations. One, they announced profits, and McDonald's has enjoyed profits for 20 consecutive months, which has been fairly substantial, particularly at the same-store sales.
But number two, they also announced that the road to growth for them, they believe in the future, is through a healthier menu. Now, what's interesting about that, as you know, is that more than half of Americans -- more than 50 percent of Americans, rather, will visit McDonald's this year. A lot of Americans eat meals there fairly regularly. And it's a reminder that often the most substantive social or political change won't happen in Washington or through a piece of legislation, but often because a company makes a move. And in this case, what's so interesting is that it was driven in many ways, at least in part, by a small independent film called "Super Size Me," that criticized supersizing of menus and kind of unhealthy eating.
So again, let's watch this summer and this fall for some of these independent films with a political bent.
BLITZER: All right, have a great weekend. Carlos Watson always has "The Inside Edge." He's here every Friday on this program. Thanks, Carlos, very much.
WATSON: Good to see you. Have a great weekend.
BLITZER: Thank you, Carlos.
That's it for me. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now, Lou standing by in New York with more -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Thank you, Wolf. Have a great evening.
END
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Aired May 13, 2005 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, the debate over a national ID, it's just intensified. There's been a new development, and it involves your Social Security card.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Base debate: Dozens of U.S. military bases target for closure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This information comes as a shock.
BLITZER: Thousands of jobs are on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are all profoundly disappointed.
BLITZER: Fast track to sainthood: A surprise announcement from the new pope about John Paul II.
First in: The CIA sent him to Afghanistan only days after 9/11. His mission, find and kill Osama bin Laden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually said he wanted me to kill Osama bin Laden and put his head in a box with dry ice and ship it back to him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" for Friday, May 13th, 2005.
BLITZER: Thanks for joining us. The wraps are off the Pentagon's long-awaited base closing plan. And it affects installations from Maine to Hawaii. The 33 major bases targeted are more than any of the previous four rounds of base closings. Scores of others would also be affected.
Today's announcement triggered immediate, often heated reaction from communities affected and the politicians who represent them. We have reports from all around the country.
Let's begin, though, with our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, it's been ten years since the Pentagon has gotten permission from Congress to close bases. And they're clearly making up for lost time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will hear us. And they will turn this around!
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The Pentagon's plan sparked predictable outrage at bases like Maine's Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. The proposed closings, including Virginia's sprawling Ft. Monroe, home of the Army's Training and Doctrine Command, are the biggest ever recommended by the Pentagon. That comes as a rude shock after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hinted, just a day earlier, his shutdown plans would be scaled back.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The department is recommending fewer major base closures than had earlier been anticipated due in part to the return of tens of thousands of troops.
MCINTYRE: What the Pentagon unveiled is essentially the mother of all base closings. 33 major bases closured, including the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and the New London Submarine Base in New England. Fort Gillem and Fort McPherson in Georgia, Ft. Monroe, Virginia, Pascagoula Naval Station, Mississippi, Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota and Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico.
The mayor of nearby Clovis, New Mexico, is vowing to save his base.
MAYOR DAVID LANSFORD, CLOVIS, NEW MEXICO: It is our resolve is to put forth the greatest fight that this community has ever put forth, because we have the right cause, the right people and the resources to win.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In addition to 33 major bases that would be closed, 29 would be significantly downsized. And here's the big number, Wolf, 775 smaller bases and facilities either closed or reorganized. That is more than almost three times all of those facilities in the previous four rounds combined.
Now, there's a reason the Pentagon's list is so long this time. It's a realization here at the Pentagon that this is such a politically painful process it's unlikely they'll get another chance to close bases any time soon -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much.
For people who depend on the bases for their livelihood, they knew this day was coming. Most dreaded it, many went to great lengths to prepare for it. CNN's Mary Snow has been talking to people at one base slated to be closed. She's joining us now live from Ft. Monmouth in New Jersey -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, between military personnel and civilian employees, about 6,000 people work at this base. Compare that to the town's population of about 14,000. So small business owners, in particular, depend in large part on this military base, and they are bracing for the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): You can see the military's presence outside the gates of Ft. Monmouth, from the local barber shop to the town center. For businesses here, the military's presence is also felt.
Take Sam Finno's Pizzeria, which draws a big lunch crowd from the base.
SAM FINNO, PIZZERIA OWNER: I would say that I would lose probably about 50 percent of my business.
JOHN POITRAS, AFGE: The economic impact to this area is going to be pretty devastating.
SNOW: John Poitras represents civilian employees who work at the Army research base that employs almost 5,000 civilians and more than 600 military members.
POITRAS: That's dollars and cents that goes into the economy here. Revenues for schools, businesses.
SNOW: Businesses like Branch's Catering.
JOHN LOMBARDO, BRANCH'S CATERING: People like my cooks and dishwashers and everyone who would be affected. So, we're going to definitely make a strong case for ourselves.
SNOW: John Lombardo based his business close to Ft. Monmouth. He is part of a group fighting to keep it open.
The mayor of Eatontown says this isn't the first time there's been talk about closing Ft Monmouth. This time he's not certain if it will remain open. But he knows there is a plan B.
MAYOR GERALD TARANTOLO, EATONTOWN, NEW JERSEY: If you look at what's happening real estate-wise in this area, I'm sure there's developers chomping at the bit with the news of Ft. Monmouth's closing. We're dealing with between 600 to 800 acres of prime real estate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And right now, hundreds of residents have gathered for a town hall meeting with state politicians. Lawmakers here claim that the total economic impact for the state of New Jersey could add up to about $3 billion if the base does close -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Mary Snow at Ft. Monmouth in New Jersey. Mary, thanks.
Even as the base closing was being handed out, some lawmakers were vowing to do everything they can to stop it all together, or at least protect their state's respective bases. Following that part of the story up on Capital Hill, our congressional correspondent Joe Johns -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one senator called these recommendations stunning, devastating, outrageous. Whatever you call it, it was a tough day for some on Capital Hill.
Apparently, we don't have the tape.
Essentially, what happened today, an armed service honor guard fanned out across the Capital, delivering the news. For many, it was bad. Of course, many of the members of Congress were effectively already in their states trying to do damage control.
Now, a lot of people, obviously, were hit very hard and a lot of states, including Maine, Mississippi, Connecticut, South Dakota. Political clout, absolutely no shield.
Former Republican majority leader Trent Lott took a hit. The Pentagon recommended closing the Pascagoula Naval Station. And Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who beat the Democrat Tom Daschle in last year's election, also took a hit.
As you know, he ran last time, saying he might be able to protect the Ellsworth Air Force Base. Now, he's going to have to try to campaign to keep it.
Of course, senators from states that got off lightly even had something to criticize, including one Senator from Texas, of course, who said, the installations slated for closure included one of the ones that create humvees and put armor on humvees there in Texas. He's upset with that.
So a lot of complaints, Wolf. And people, of course, are going to try to appeal this. But it's very tough, as you know, to appeal these recommendations -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And basically what happens, Joe, is that this is a recommendation. The Base Closure Commission is now going to review it, hold hearings. They will then make a final recommendation. Almost always very similar to what the Pentagon wants. The president will then sign off on it formally. And then the House and the Senate will have an opportunity to consider it. What happens then?
JOHNS: Well basically, the House and the Senate have one opportunity, and that is to vote it down. If they do nothing at all, of course, the recommendations go into effect. They get one opportunity to simply say no. And if they can't all agree to do that -- even if they agree to do it, there's a problem, because of course the president of the United States could say no.
BLITZER: And they have 45 days to do something. If they do nothing, it automatically goes into effect.
Joe Johns reporting for us from Capitol Hill. Thanks very much. More news coming up. A major announcement, in fact, coming from the Vatican. Pope Benedict XVI puts his predecessor, Pope John Paul II on the fast track to sainthood.
Also this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...operates in total secrecy. Even the Taliban leadership didn't know where he was going on a day to day basis, let alone our guys who were following him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Evading capture: An update on the hunt for Osama bin Laden from the former CIA station chief once ordered to kill him.
Border crossings: Would a new national I.D. card slow the flood of illegal immigrants into the United States? A debate heating up. We'll take a closer look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Pope Benedict XVI has announced the beginning of a process that could lead to saint hood for his predecessor, John Paul II. Waiving the standard five-year waiting period, Benedict has ordered church officials to begin an immediate study of John Paul's life. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston has the story in Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pope Benedict XVI making the announcement, the case for the beatification of John Paul II is now open. His proclamation drew immediate approval.
(APPLAUSE)
ECCLESTON: John Paul II died on April 2nd, leading to widespread calls from Catholics worldwide for him to be made a saint. In the hours following his death and at his funeral mass, tens of thousands waved banners and chanted "Santo Subito," immediate sainthood.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: This is the way that processes for saint hood are supposed to work in the Catholic Church. It's supposed to start with a strong popular devotion, but the church then comes in after the fact and ratifies. And that -- at that funeral mass, there's no better evidence that there's a strong popular devotion for this man than that.
ECCLESTON: The road to saint hood is arduous and steeped in tradition. A commission of historians will be appointed to gather information, evidence, and compiles documents. This will be examined by theologians, cardinals and bishops. There findings must then be approved by the pope. ALLEN: Then, in order for the person to be beatified, there has to be a miracle that has to be documented, that has to be first passed by a group of physicians who can assure that there wasn't any scientific explanation for it, that it was an instant, but it was lasting. And that it was -- can't be explained any other way.
ECCLESTON: These are the types of reports the Vatican will be analyzing. An American Jew cured of a brain tumor after attending mass with the late pope. A Mexican boy stricken with Leukemia who recovered after a papal kiss. Even a cardinal who regained his ability to speak after John Paul touched his throat. In normal circumstances, five years must pass between the death of a person in line for beatification and the start of the process to avoid emotion playing a part.
However, John Paul II dispensed with this rule himself when in 2003 he beatified Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
ECCLESTON (on camera): John Paul II, beatified and canonized more people than any other pope. The cardinal in charge of the Vatican Office of Sainthood, said the decision to fast track the late pope is an acknowledgement of the will of the Catholic faithful, an extraordinary event for someone many call an extraordinary man.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks, Jennifer.
Let's take a quick look at some other news making headlines "Around the World."
Security forces in eastern Uzbekistan opened fire on thousands of protesters. Leaders of the demonstration said as many as 20 civilians were killed and dozens were wounded. Shooting erupted after protesters stormed a jail to free people accused of Islamic extremism.
More unrest in India-controlled Kashmir. Police fired tear gas and clashed with hundreds of angry demonstrators protesting a grenade attack. The blast yesterday killed two women and wounded dozens of others, including numerous children outside a school.
Anti-American protests in Afghanistan are spreading outside the country. Hundreds of members of the militant group Hamas took to the streets of Gaza to protest alleged desecration of Islam's holy book by U.S. Forces guarding detained Muslims at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. At least 15 people have been killed in clashes this week in Afghanistan between security forces and protesters. And that's our look "Around the World."
State of emergency extended. How the recent flare-up of violence in Iraq will affect the length of time American troops will have to stay in that country.
Is the U.S. military closing in on the terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? There's some new information from a former CIA station chief in the region. We'll speak with him.
Also ahead -- a celebrity lawyer once on the Jackson defense team is forced to testify today. We'll go live to the courthouse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Violence from Iraq's insurgency is now reaching record levels with hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians killed in recent weeks.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al Jaafari today extended the state of emergency in his country for another 30 days, martial law essentially, in a country where violence continues to be a daily occurrence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): The violence in Iraq is unrelenting and brutal. It is Iraqi civilians and security forces who are dying. As many as 400 Iraqis killed in the last two weeks, according to officials.
Insurgent attacks now number around 60 a day. It's lower than the level before the January election, but more deadly. In April alone, 135 car bombs, the most ever.
Even if the violence decreases, a sober assessment on how long the U.S. might be involved in Iraq.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: One thing we know about insurgencies, is that they last three, four years to nine years. These are tough fights.
STARR: A Democratic Iraqi government and Iraqi security forces train to control the country even with escalating violence remains the strategy.
MYERS: This is not something that we're going to go out and knee jerk to every time. This is a thinking and adapting adversary. They are thinking and adapting. The vehicle-borne improvised explosive device is a very tough device to thwart.
STARR: A senior U.S. military official tells CNN it is the number of suicide car bombers, those responsible for most of the carnage, that has been a surprise. In Baghdad, where dozens of car bombs have gone off, commanders say Iraqi security forces are on the job, but the violence has become worse.
COL. JOSEPH P. DISALVO, U.S. ARMY: And they're targeting innocent civilians with the suicide/homicide bombers in their cars. The actual number of events have decreased, to tell you the truth, over the past month. However, the fewer events are a little bit more lethal, because they're targeting innocent civilians.
STARR: The U.S. offensive in western Iraq is aimed at wiping out a haven for foreign fighters stockpiling car bombs and weapons. But another surprise when insurgents stood their ground and fought. Now, dozens captured and killed, nobody knows how many may have fled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: So, Wolf, just how strong at this point is the insurgency? U.S. commanders say they believe it still has the same capacity to launch attacks that it had about a year ago -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Barbara Starr reporting for us at the Pentagon, thanks..
For more, we're on the story with CNN's senior Baghdad correspondent Jane Arraf. She's joining us from the Iraqi capital. And CNN's Kathleen Hays. She's joining us in New York.
First to you, Jane. What are you hearing? What are you seeing? What are you sensing in Iraq right now about the level of this insurgency?
JANE ARRAF, CNN SENIOR BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, certainly it's a worry to everybody. It's a worry to people on the streets. It's a worry to this new government. There is so much at stake here.
And what they're facing are, as Barbara mentioned, these numbers that just keep going up. But while it might seem it's all violence all the time here, there are millions of Iraqis, Wolf, who are getting on with their daily lives. And we're going to be following a couple of those people around Baghdad to see what it's like to get up in the morning, go to work in Baghdad and try to lead a normal life.
BLITZER: CNN's Jane Arraf is a very, very courageous reporter.
Kathleen, a lot less dangerous covering New York City, I should say. But the war in Iraq certainly is having some sort of impact on the overall U.S. economy. Talk a little bit about that.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Wolf, the big impact is on the budget and the budget deficit. And these base closings clearly a way to try to take your Pentagon, your military dollar and stretch it further. The problem is, it's going to shrink dollars in some communities.
Now, if you talk to a bull, they'll say, hey, the economy is doing fine. People are spending money. But people point out, it's a bifurcated economy. Low income people hit by high gas prices. Now we'll see small businesses hit in these communities.
And in a place like Bangor, Maine, where there's big submarine base closing, the question is, what is coming come in, what industry is going to come in and replace it? I'm looking at that story very closely, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Kathleen Hays and Jane Arraf, two of our best. Thanks very much.
And this note to our viewers, you can hear a lot more from Jane and Kathleen this Sunday "ON THE STORY," where CNN women have the inside word on the stories they're covering. "ON THE STORY" airs every Sunday morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern, an excellent program. If you haven't seen it, you'll want to tune in starting this Sunday, 10:00 a.m..
How close did U.S. forces come to capturing Osama bin Laden? And where is bin Laden right now? Just ahead, my conversation with retired CIA insider Gary Schroen.
Also, illegal immigrants continuing to come across the U.S. border. Are redesigned Social Security cards part of the answer to this problem?
And super size: Big announcements from the fast food chain McDonald's. What's the potential political -- yes, political impact. Our Carlos Watson, as he does every Friday, has the "Inside Edge."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. In our CNN "Security Watch." With last week's capture of al Qaeda's third in command, is the United States any closer to catching up with Osama bin Laden? A former CIA station chief in the region, Gary Schroen, was sent back to Afghanistan right after 9/11 with orders, he says, to kill bin Laden and bring his head back packed in ice.
His new book is entitled "First In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And now joining us is Gary Schroen. Congratulations on this book. It reads like a novel, like a thriller, but it's all true. It's amazing the kinds of experiences you had.
Let's get right to the issue at hand. Why can't the U.S. find Osama bin Laden?
GARY SCHROEN, AUTHOR "FIRST IN": Primarily because he's hiding in one of the most inaccessible areas in the world on that border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I think he's in the northern areas about (INAUDIBLE). Rugged terrain, even if you put troops in there, it would be difficult to find him, just as we had trouble finding that fellow down in North Carolina for over five years.
But he's also being protected by the tribals there who hate the government and who admire him. And so, without Pakistani full cooperation, it's really, really like looking for a needle in a haystack.
BLITZER: Well, when you say without the Pakistani full cooperation, they've been very helpful, the president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, in this war on terror since 9/11.
SCHROEN: Absolutely. They kind of had to be forced kicking and screaming into it, because they were the primary supporters of the Taliban. But once they began to cooperate in the cities around the country since September 11, we've captured hundreds of al Qaeda terrorists. It's only in these tribal areas of Pakistan where they're control is weak and where there's great resistance to the Pakistani government that they have been less than fully cooperative.
BLITZER: Now, I've heard you make an explosive charge that the government of Pakistan, President Musharraf, that they will help the United States find all sorts of relatively low level types, but they really don't want to help the United States find Osama bin Laden or his deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri.
SCHROEN: That's my impression after almost four year of trips back to Afghanistan and looking at the situation on the ground. There's a lot of things that they could be doing. It would be politically costly. But I -- and I just don't think the Musharraf government is willing yet to do that.
BLITZER: But do you have any hard evidence that the U.S. and others, perhaps, were on the verge of getting their hands around Osama bin Laden and that Pakistan did something to prevent that deal from being completed?
SCHROEN: No. The closest we came -- we have come in recent times was at Tora Bora in the end of 2001 and early 2002, when bin Laden and his guys were able to slip across the border.
BLITZER: In Afghanistan?
SCHROEN: In Afghanistan going into Pakistan. It's true...
BLITZER: Do you know for sure they slipped from Tora Bora into Pakistan?
SCHROEN: I'm absolutely convinced of it.
BLITZER: On the basis of what?
SCHROEN: Just my own knowledge of what was happening there and the intelligence we were gathering as the battle evolved.
BLITZER: Because, as you remember, during the presidential campaign John Kerry kept accusing President Bush of outsourcing the hunt for Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora, that he was within the grasp of the U.S., but they decided to let the Afghans or the Pakistanis take over.
SCHROEN: It wasn't a callous decision. There was -- we did use Afghan tribals to try to block those escape routes out of Tora Bora, out of Afghanistan, because we really didn't have enough troops to do the job ourselves totally, to do both sides of that battle. And the locals had intimate knowledge of the trails. Unfortunately, it turned out that most of the guys that we were hiring were supporters of the Taliban or sympathetic to them and very sympathetic to bin Laden.
BLITZER: In your book, you write this, the book, "First End." "I knew that the only way to effectively get at bin Laden was to go after him in Afghanistan. And the only way to effectively chase him in that country was to eliminate the Taliban forces protecting him." That was done. The Taliban forces were effectively eliminated. The whole question, though, over human intelligence -- the U.S. has great electronic, eavesdropping, satellite reconnaissance, photography, but there's been a lot of criticism that your profession, an agent, an officer on the ground, a clandestine officer, that there simply aren't enough human assets to get the job done.
SCHROEN: We chased bin Laden -- I personally was involved in chasing him from Islamabad as chief of station there, from 1997 to '99 and then watched that effort evolve. We had a lot of human assets on the ground, Afghans that could operate there effectively. But the man operates in total secrecy. Even the Taliban leadership didn't know where he was going on a day to day basis, let alone our guys who were following him.
BLITZER: The other charge you make, which is very explosive, controversial, as well as that, that this war the U.S. has engaged in Iraq really has undermined a much more important agenda. You write this. "Given the total preoccupation with Iraq, I am not confident that the U.S. government will make the policy adjustments necessary to improve conditions for the success of the Democratic experiment in Afghanistan or refocus diplomatic and military efforts back to the south Asian region in order to capture Osama bin Laden and defeat al Qaeda."
In effect, what you're saying is that Iraq, the military occupation there, has undermined the search for Osama bin Laden.
SCHROEN: I think that's true up to a point. Two points to that question. One was supporting the Karzai government, and our amount of aid is probably $3 billion a year. A lot of money, but not nearly enough to improve conditions. The local -- the current rioting going on in Kabul City and other cities around the country in Afghanistan, is demonstration that their conditions are still tenuous there.
BLITZER: That rioting in Jalalabad, especially, because of a "Newsweek" report that interrogators at the U.S. Naval at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba desecrated the Koran in front of these prisoners, these detainees, and Muslims are outraged by that.
SCHROEN: And rightly so. It's one of the most prohibitive things that one can do in Islam is to deface the holy Koran. And to do that was inviting this kind of negative reaction in Afghanistan. And I'm surprised if it hasn't -- doesn't resonate around the Muslim world.
BLITZER: You still think, though, that when all is said and done, Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda terrorist in Iraq, all of those guys are going to be rounded up sooner rather than later.
SCHROEN: I -- I honestly do. We're putting an incredible amount of effort that goes on behind the scenes that the American people don't see in trying to track him down. The arrest -- the successful arrest by the Pakistani authorities of al-Libbi, the number three guy who replaced Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, just recently up in the northern area is a huge step forward. If we can convince the Pakistanis that they need to really take on the effort and continue that effort in that area to try to track down bin Laden.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Abu Farraj al LIVE EVENT, this nominal number 3 in al Qaeda. I know you're not active in the CIA right now, but help our viewers understand what happens to a guy like this or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the earlier number 3 in al Qaeda, who's been a U.S. prisoner for a couple of years. How do -- how do they try to get information out of these guys, active information, information that's actionable, as they say, that can help find others?
SCHROEN: Well, actually, with this fellow, al-Libbi, the Pakistanis have a very strong interest in holding him because he is supposedly responsible -- he's accused of planning the two assassination attempts against President Musharraf. With Khalid Sheikh Mohammed they turned him over to us pretty quickly, and let us take him into custody. I honestly don't know where he was taken, but he was...
BLITZER: A third country.
SCHROEN: A third country someplace, where he was subjected to, I guess, pressure. I don't think he was tortured, but he was put under a lot of pressure.
BLITZER: Is it physical pressure or psychological?
SCHROEN: More psychological, loud music and things like that.
BLITZER: Because by all accounts, he's been talking a lot.
SCHROEN: Well, and I think finally what really broke him was that we actually had people go in who spoke very, very good Arabic, native Arabic, who actually were kind to him and talked to him. And he began to talk. And once they -- once he opened up, they were able to do it much better than any kind of coercive means. And unfortunately, that's probably what al-Libbi is going through right now in Pakistan.
BLITZER: Here's another quote from your book "First In: A Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan," because you were, first in, literally first in. You write this, "In Northern Virginia, the morning of 11 September, 2001, it was beautiful with clear blue skies and mild temperatures that gave just a hint of fall. That morning I left my home in Alexandria, Virginia, an hour later than my past routine had called for, having entered into the CIA's 90-day retirement transition program just 11 days earlier."
You were planning on retiring?
SCHROEN: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Leaving the CIA. But within days, you were first in in Afghanistan searching for Osama bin Laden. This is before the U.S. bombing of Afghanistan began? SCHROEN: Absolutely. And I left that afternoon from the CIA, dejected because I thought, well I'm in the retirement program. I'm going to have -- play no part in this hunt for bin Laden, and fighting the war against terrorism that just has been declared. And yet three days -- four days -- three days later, actually, I was called before Mr. Coffer Black and told that I was going to -- offered me the leadership of the team to go into Afghanistan.
BLITZER: And he had a specific instruction to you, Cofer Black, who was in charge of counterterrorism at the CIA, he's now over at the State Department. He said he wanted you to capture Osama bin Laden?
SCHROEN: Well, he actually said he wanted me to kill Osama bin Laden and put his head in a box with dry ice and ship it back to him.
BLITZER: And you said?
SCHROEN: And I said I'll do my best to follow the first part and kill him. I don't know what I'd do about dry ice in Afghanistan, but we'll improvise.
BLITZER: And were there smiles, snickers, was he half serious?
SCHROEN: He was half serious . I think what we -- you had was, we were just days after the attacks. He was trying to -- to -- he, more than just about anybody within the CIA, stood up and was really pushing, this is a disaster, but we're going to take the gloves off. We're going to get bin Laden and his al Qaeda. And this was the kind of bravado that would kind of buck you up before, especially our team, before we went off by ourselves to go into Afghanistan.
BLITZER: Was there or is there a U.S. law that would prohibit you from going out and killing Osama bin Laden? He's not necessarily the leader of a state or anything like that.
SCHROEN: Under normal circumstances, yes, there is a prohibition. But I think that the after 9/11 that there was official sanction from the administration to go after this man and eliminate him.
BLITZER: The book is called "First In." Gary Schroen is the author. Congratulations on the book, Gary. Thanks for joining us.
SCHROEN: Thank you very much, Wolf. It's been a pleasure to be here.
BLITZER: And please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Making Social Security Cards more secure. That's the goal of one proposal. Critics, though, say it smacks of big brother and a national I.D. We'll show you what both sides are saying.
Also -- Michael Jackson's former lawyer becomes a witness in his child molestation trial. Plus -- is there any hope left for Social Security reform? Congress is back. So is Carlos Watson. He has "The Inside Edge." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now more on our "Security Watch." We've heard a lot about the debate over Social Security. There's another debate, though, that's under way involving Social Security cards. There's a new proposal in Congress to change the cards. And our Brian Todd has been looking into this story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, imagine a new Social Security card with your picture and your electronic signature on the back. It's raising a big debate over security, privacy and illegal immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Hiding in the floorboards of pickup trucks, poking through fences, fording rivers -- the methods of entry into the United States are endlessly creative for millions of illegal immigrants. Methods of staying and working are equally so, including the purchase of fake Social Security cards.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, SECURITY ANALYST: Social Security cards right now are a problem from a security point of view. They're a very significant breeder document for other forms of identification. It's very easy to get a Social Security card. Many are reissued over and over. There are many more Social Security cards in circulation today than there are people in the United States.
TODD: A problem that Republican Congressman David Dreier of California believes he can solve. Dreier is pushing legislation that would upgrade the security of Social Security cards with digitized photos, electronic signature strips on the back.
But it doesn't stop there. The bill would bring much tougher penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants or fail to verify their work eligibility. And would add 10,000 new agents in the Department of Homeland Security who would enforce those rules.
REP. DAVID DREIER, (R) CALIFORNIA: If we see three, four, five really good crackdowns on those employers, especially big companies out there knowingly hiring people illegally, we're going to see sort of like compliance with the Internal Revenue service. It's not just done out of patriotism, it's done because you might face a penalty.
I think we'll see a diminution in the number of illegal hirings.
TODD: Dreier and his aides are quick to point out that this would not be a national I.D. card, because it would only have Social Security and legal status on it. And in principal would not be used for identification, like the new driver's licenses approved by the president just this week. Others are skeptical. FALKENRATH: Everything else about the card is perfect for identification purposes: there's a name, there's a number, there's a picture, there's a digital fingerprint -- or digital signature. And so it is, in many respects, a national I.D. card even though on the card itself, it says not to be used for identification purposes.
TODD: The card's information would also go into a huge database monitored by the Department of Homeland Security, which doesn't sit well with privacy advocates.
JAY STANLEY, ACLU: What this will do is create an enormous database in Homeland Security that will be used to track individuals. And it will have far more effect on Americans and their privacy than it will on illegal employment. It's very intrusive, and it violates the American ethos that the government leaves you alone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Now, despite Congressman Dreier's insistence, CNN is told that many in Congress are concerned that this will be a national I.D. card, which is difficult politically. Groups like the ACLU even joined forces with ultraconservatives against it because of the quote "Big Brother" issue.
With that resistance, and a belief that the restaurant, hotel and other industries might fight this because of the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, the chances of this passing are considered uncertain -- Wolf.
BLITZER: At least at this time. Thanks very much, Brian Todd, for that report.
Once again, as always, remember to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
And this note. The president's national security adviser Stephen Hadley will join me this Sunday on LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk. That airs Sunday, noon eastern, here on CNN.
Coming up at the top of the hour, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Lou is standing by in New York with a preview, as always -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Well thank you. At 6:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, we'll be reporting on the Pentagon's huge military base closing plan. Tens of thousands of military and civilian jobs will be lost if the Pentagon has its way. Communities all over this country will be affected.
Also, another American soldier has been killed in Iraq. Insurgents sharply increasing the number of suicide attacks. How strong is the insurgency? We'll have that SPECIAL REPORT for you.
And Cuba arresting hundreds of young people who have committed no crimes. The State Department calls the round-up outrageous. We'll have that special report from Havana.
All of that and a great deal more coming up in just a few minutes here on CNN. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Lou Dobbs always has an excellent show. Thanks, Lou, very much.
When we come back, on the stand in the Michael Jackson case, the man who once was hired to help defend the pop star against child molestation charges -- guess what -- he's back involved. A live report coming from Santa Maria right after this.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. He used to be the lead attorney, but today Mark Geragos is a witness in Michael Jackson's child molestation trial. CNN's Rusty Dornin is joining us now live outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. She has the latest -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's very unusual to see celebrity attorney Mark Geragos up on the witness stand. He was the lead defense attorney, as you said, for Michael Jackson for a brief period of time, from February '03, when all the fallout was occurring from that Martin Bashir documentary, "Living With Michael Jackson," up through his arrest. At that time, Michael Jackson let him go. Geragos was also involved in the Scott Peterson trial, and that's when Jackson hired Thomas Mesereau.
Great courtroom drama going on, though, questioning Geragos about his involvement. He talked about that he saw -- all he saw with Jackson was very childlike behavior. There was nothing nefarious, nothing sexual about the fact that he slept with these boys. He said he saw nothing that would indicate there was a conspiracy to hold these children or the family of the accuser captive, that he didn't see anything like that.
Now, the prosecutors really pressing Geragos on certain issues, kept talking about the idea that did Jackson ever tell him he slept with boys? Did he think that that was unusual? That sort of thing. And he was cool, calm and collected on the stand the entire time.
The prosecutor, on the other hand, was getting very heated, and at one point the judge stopped the proceedings and told the prosecutor, Ron Zonen, to calm down a little. He said, when I go horseback riding, I always tell the horses to lower their heads and slow things down a bit.
Now, it turns out that he's coming back next Friday. There is a problem, however, in terms of what he can answer. Apparently, he did not allow -- give a waiver to answer questions after Jackson's arrest. And that's what the prosecution wants to hear. So there's going to be some problems with that to be resolved next Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We'll watch it together with you, Rusty. Thanks very much.
Beyond the Beltway. How the fast food chain McDonald's is proving major social change can be created outside the nation's capital. Guess what? Carlos Watson will be standing by with the "Inside Edge," and that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Fireworks and uncertainty on Capitol Hill. From the House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to John Bolton and the filibuster fight. Joining us now to talk about the impact on legislation and other issues, our CNN political analyst Carlos Watson. He's in our Los Angeles studio, as he is every Friday.
Carlos, let's talk about Congress. Lots of attention being focused on Congress right now, and for good reason.
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Certainly, Wolf. And you know, a lot of the attention has been on the Senate, whether, as you said, it's the filibuster fight, whether it's a conversation about John Bolton's nomination. But the reality is that in the House, there may be two very interesting things to watch this upcoming summer.
One, are there a group of Republicans, mid-level Republicans, who, given all of Tom DeLay's troubles, may be freed up a little bit to flex their muscles and put their imprints on a number of bills, from energy bills to a new gang initiative bill, to even some of the upcoming legislation on education and other issues?
Number two, will Democrats in the House, who, since they're in the minority and given the way the House works they don't have much power, are there enough Democrats who have been working with Republicans that you'll start to see some limited, very limited Democratic imprints on some legislation going forward?
I think the place to watch is beginning next week in these battles over appropriations, everything from funding of schools to funding of health care to funding of veteran initiatives.
BLITZER: We pay a lot of attention to what's happening in Europe, in the Middle East, in Asia. We don't often pay a lot of attention to what's happening right in our own neighborhood, in Central America and Latin America, but you sense that could change.
WATSON: It could, Wolf. You know, this week, President Bush welcomed the leaders of several Central American nations to talk about a free trade agreement called CAFTA that he hopes to pursue. Two weeks ago, Condi Rice, secretary of state, made a rather historic trip to Latin America. So a lot more focus there, and it makes a good deal of sense.
Two interesting things are going on in Latin America that are worth our tuning into. One is as it relates to the economy. You see China, who over the last two years has signed a number of economic and trade agreements in Latin America, whether that's been with Brazil, Argentina, or other countries, and certainly that's caused concern among a number of American companies who expect to do a lot of trade with Latin America. So that's one reason we'll tune in.
Another reason we'll tune in is the country of Venezuela. There's a country that often is either the second or third largest exporter of oil to the United States, even though we think of Saudi Arabia and others. It's very prominent in that role. And they're about to launch a new TV station in cooperation with Cuba and a number of other countries who have been on the opposite side of the United States. Could have a major impact on ideological divides on questions, including a number of elections and even coups in Latin America. So another reason to stay -- pay close attention, rather.
BLITZER: All right, switching gears. You're paying attention to McDonald's. All right, tell us what's going on on the McDonald's beat.
WATSON: McDonald's made two fairly significant announcements this week. One of our largest corporations. One, they announced profits, and McDonald's has enjoyed profits for 20 consecutive months, which has been fairly substantial, particularly at the same-store sales.
But number two, they also announced that the road to growth for them, they believe in the future, is through a healthier menu. Now, what's interesting about that, as you know, is that more than half of Americans -- more than 50 percent of Americans, rather, will visit McDonald's this year. A lot of Americans eat meals there fairly regularly. And it's a reminder that often the most substantive social or political change won't happen in Washington or through a piece of legislation, but often because a company makes a move. And in this case, what's so interesting is that it was driven in many ways, at least in part, by a small independent film called "Super Size Me," that criticized supersizing of menus and kind of unhealthy eating.
So again, let's watch this summer and this fall for some of these independent films with a political bent.
BLITZER: All right, have a great weekend. Carlos Watson always has "The Inside Edge." He's here every Friday on this program. Thanks, Carlos, very much.
WATSON: Good to see you. Have a great weekend.
BLITZER: Thank you, Carlos.
That's it for me. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now, Lou standing by in New York with more -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Thank you, Wolf. Have a great evening.
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