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Nancy Grace

8-Year-Old Girl Found Buried Alive in a Trash Dump; Day 58 of Michael Jackson Trial

Aired May 23, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a trash dump-turned-burial ground for an 8-year-old little girl abducted from her own home and then a miracle. The little girl found buried alive, deep under an abandoned trash dump.
And an 18-year-old girl tonight wants to lock the door and throw away the key on her own grandfather.

And it is day 58 in the Michael Jackson child sex trial.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Believe it or not, day 58 of the Michael Jackson child sex trial. Will Jackson`s defense cut it short and rest their case?

And 18-year-old Ashley White takes on the justice system to land her own grandfather behind bars. Why? Starting 11 years ago, at the age of seven, he began years of child molestation.

And tonight, a miracle. An 8-year-old girl, sexually assaulted and literally thrown out with the trash, left to die in an abandoned Florida landfill, is found alive by police. We go live to Florida for the latest on the little girl`s discovery and on the man Florida police say is responsible.

Tonight, in West Palm Beach, Florida, Lake Worth Police Chief William Smith; in Santa Maria, California, defense attorney Daniel Horowitz; in L.A., defense attorney Debra Opri; in New York, psychologist Michelle Callahan.

But first, let`s go to Lake Worth, Florida, and CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Welcome, Susan. What happened?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Nancy.

It`s a remarkable and amazing story of survival. I`m in front of this closed landfill run by the city. And behind me, you can possibly make out way off in the distance a dumpster where this little girl, according to police, was buried alive by her alleged assailant, a 17-year-old teenager who is now charged with attempted murder and sexual battery of this little girl.

Apparently, on Sunday, he himself reported this little girl missing. Police later said that he admitted the story he told them was a lie, that she had been kidnapped by three or four mysterious men. They issued an Amber Alert. They believed that the little girl was missing.

They looked all over for her. There were about 100 officers out there looking for her. And then, after about seven hours, the police were checking out this landfill, which is just a few blocks from the home where this little girl had been staying with a godmother just for the weekend, just for the night.

And the officer came upon a dumpster. Inside it, a yellow recycling bin that he said was filled halfway up with rocks. He looked inside. He said he saw only a hand and a foot. He had to blink his eyes because he couldn`t believe it. And when he looked again, sure enough, there it was.

He yelled. He shook the recycling bin. There was no movement, no sound. He called for a superior, a boss who came over, and he looked inside. And don`t you know, then he says, "I saw a finger move." He couldn`t believe it.

They called in the rescue squad. And this little girl, according to authorities, was able to immediately start answering questions once they pulled her out from under these 30-pound boulders, small rocks, and she was able to, they say, identify her attacker. Later on, authorities say that he then admitted to the alleged crime -- Nancy?

GRACE: Susan Candiotti, the name of the alleged attacker, Milagro Cunningham, what can you tell us about him?

CANDIOTTI: Well, we`re learning a little bit about him more and more each day. But it`s not all that much. He is 17-years-old. He is from the Bahamas, according to the place where he had been staying, the woman`s house where he had been staying, the godmother of the alleged victim.

And he had been living in this country for a couple of years, she says. He had been kicked out of a house where he had been staying, according to this godmother. And she took him in to live with her family.

Now, apparently, he had been sleeping in the house that night along with other children in the house when this alleged incident occurred. He has now been charged, as a juvenile for now, with attempted murder, sex battery, and false imprisonment. He appeared in court this day for now being held as a juvenile.

But the state attorney`s office here tells me that, on Thursday, it is likely they will bring this matter before a grand jury so that they will ask them whether the grand jury believes there is enough evidence to hold him over, to indict him as an adult. That`s what the state attorney`s office wants to do.

GRACE: Susan Candiotti, how do we know this guy is just 17? His birth certificate and all of his documentation would be in the Bahamas. And what was he doing here to start with?

CANDIOTTI: Well, all of that is unclear. At this point, Nancy, we`re just hearing rumors. And because we don`t have official information on it, we don`t want to pass on rumors. So for now, we keep asking, "Well, how do you know who he is? And how long has he been here? And is he here legally?"

And apparently he is. But even the state attorney`s office told me this afternoon, "I don`t know. We`re still looking into this background, and the public defender might be finding out more about him before even we do," she said.

GRACE: Susan, I want to look at that birth certificate myself, OK? I want to see if this guy`s really just 17.

And the way it works -- out to Chief William Smith who`s with us from Lake Worth Police Department -- if you`re a juvenile, you are originally charged as a juvenile, but then the grand jury can usurp that. There is a procedure for juveniles being bound over to adult court if they`re capital felonies, felonies that once called for the death penalty, now call for life, such as kidnapping, such as rape.

To Chief William Smith, Chief, welcome. It`s not very often we have a happy ending where a child is actually found. Tell me the story about finding the little girl.

CHIEF WILLIAM SMITH, INVESTIGATOR IN CASE OF GIRL BURIED ALIVE: Well, I can tell you that I`ve never seen anything like that. The change in expression -- all of us, all the officers, the family, we all were expecting bad news. And at first, we thought that`s what we had.

When the detectives first approached, they didn`t see any movement, any signs of life. But when the finger wiggled, our lieutenant, Dave Matthews, shouted that she moved. Sergeant Mike Hall, the officer that actually found her, called for an ambulance right away. And the expression just changed. Everybody was overjoyed.

GRACE: To defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, you`ve got a tough time defending this guy. Remember, he`s the one that said, first of all, I think, five people took the little girl, home invasion, and he witnesses the whole thing. The five people take the little girl.

Then he goes, "Oh, no, it was three. Oh, no, it was two. Oh, actually, you know what? It was me." OK, your guy got a big problem on this case, Daniel Horowitz. What`s your defense?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, and don`t hit the "Turn off the Horowitz Mike Button." In cases like this...

GRACE: I`m not making any promises.

HOROWITZ: ... it shows -- this shows what`s wrong with our system. Listen carefully. The system is at fault because it takes people with crimes of compulsion and forces them to -- once they`ve committed the crime -- it forces them to then take the next step and throw the victims in the garbage, kill them, silence them.

If we want these crimes to stop, we need to step back and say, "It is not the same to have a sexual aberration or compulsion as to be a conscious, planned murderer. So we as a society need to look at ourselves if we want this to stop."

GRACE: Daniel, I hope you argue that to the jury, because you will definitely get consecutive life sentences on that one.

Debra Opri, take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually pulled myself up and looked down into the recycling bin and saw her hand. And I was there probably two seconds or so, and then I saw her finger move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You saw her finger move?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did. And that`s the first thing I -- the first thing that came out of my mouth, "Her finger just moved."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And to Debra Opri, it`s my understanding -- hey, Elizabeth, if you can, could you pull that still picture of those huge rocks they dumped out of the dumpster, this little girl was actually under?

Debra Opri, the little girl was face down.

DEBRA OPRI, JACKSON DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know.

GRACE: No, there are a bunch of -- there they are. Thanks, Elizabeth. These rocks were on top...

OPRI: I know.

GRACE: What is your defense? Give me your best shot. Come on. Bring it on.

OPRI: Number one, it`s going to be a very difficult defense, unless I can have his confession kicked out because he didn`t have a lawyer or an adult wasn`t there. He still is a minor, if they can substantiate that he`s a minor.

Where are we looking, as far as a defense, Nancy? We hopefully would plead this out. This is a case that can never go to trial. I`d work to plead it out as a minor juvie hall `til 25-years-old. But I just don`t see a defense other than insanity, based upon the fact that he`s angry, troubled, and it was a crime of sexual passion. That`s the best.

GRACE: Oh, angry, angry, angry. So the defense is, "I did it but I was mad, so let me off." OK, I`m going to hold that thought, too.

We need a shrink. Psychotherapist Michelle Callahan with us. Insanity, the fact he then lied to police according to reports tonight, it was five guys, then it was three guys, home invasion, "I saw the whole thing," uh-oh, you know what? It was really me, officer. Now, how are you going to get an insanity defense out of that?

MICHELLE CALLAHAN, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re not. That`s a load of crap. He knew what he was doing. And you can`t go and say you`re crazy because you did something criminal. You did something disgusting and horrendous to a little child.

GRACE: We`re going to go straight back down to Florida and CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Also with us, Lake Worth Police Department Chief William Smith. His people found this little girl, thrown away like she was trash, an 8-year-old girl that survived a sex attack and then being thrown to the bottom of a landfill. Tonight, she is alive. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. MIKE HALL, LAKE WORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: Inside the big, green dumpster was a big, yellow recycling bin. I leaned in, flipped the lid open on the recycling bin, and saw a large concrete -- concrete slabs piled into the recycling bin. And in between those concrete slabs, I saw a small foot and a small hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HALL: Walked up to the dumpster, stepped up here, and, within arm`s reach, there was a yellow recycling bin with the lid closed on it. I reached over, flipped the lid open, started looking in.

You see behind you -- I seen those large concrete boulders about halfway filled up. And as I continued looking down, you know, there was what I believed to be a small hand and a small foot. I started shaking, started shaking the recycling bin, you know, looking for movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight in Florida, an 8-year-old little girl was allegedly raped, kidnapped, and then buried at the bottom of a dumpster, miraculously found tonight. The alleged perpetrator behind bars. He will be back in court later this week. A grand jury, we believe, is meeting on Thursday to determine what the official charges will be.

Let`s go down to Lake Worth. Standing by, police department Chief William Smith. Chief, what first made you suspicious of this guy`s story?

SMITH: Well, our investigators began to see some holes in his story. It just didn`t make sense. It was a little bit too much to be true.

GRACE: About a home invasion, people he didn`t know, that he chased a van. They stopped the van long enough to get out, and fight with him, and then jumped back in the van. Then the number of the assailants began to change and dwindled down to one. Gee, who could it be?

Question: On Thursday, is that a grand jury proceeding? Or will he be in court? What happens next?

SMITH: I believe that`s a grand jury proceeding that the state attorney will guide the grand jury through. I doubt that the suspect`s going to be in court.

GRACE: Describe to me, Chief, how you found her. Was she facedown? Was she upside down? How was she positioned in that dumpster?

SMITH: She was upside-down head first in the dumpster, which was standing up. And the large concrete blocks were piled in on top of her.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE DRISCOLL, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: She identified her attacker immediately. And I would just emphasize that the position she was in, it would be similar to that trash can over there, upside down, with very large, heavy boulders on top of her. I mean, she was in a position that you wouldn`t think someone could ever survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Chief, you immediately issued an Amber Alert. A massive volunteer search effort began. What charges exactly does Cunningham face?

SMITH: He faces attempted murder, false imprisonment, and sexual battery on a child under 13 years of age.

GRACE: Do you have any doubt, Chief, that he will be bound over and treated as an adult?

SMITH: I think that is highly probable.

GRACE: And to Debra Opri, Debra, this false imprisonment charge, you know that`s going to graduate to a full-blown kidnapping.

OPRI: Absolutely.

GRACE: In most jurisdictions, that`s 20-to-life on a kidnapping.

OPRI: Absolutely. The best the criminal defense attorney can do, and this is pie in the sky, try to get him a juvie plea bargain. And if he doesn`t take a juvie plea bargain, that guy`s crazier than even I think.

GRACE: And here in the studio with me, Michelle, question regarding the godmother. My immediate question was, where was the mother? Do we need to indict her, too?

But it sounds to me like the mom was working, and this godmother would keep the little girl routinely on weekends, certain nights, as well as allowing Cunningham to sleep on the sofa. An allegedly 17-year-old young man, had never had any serious trouble. Worst thing he had ever done, that I know of, was throwing a stone into a car window. That`s not so bad. So I don`t see there`s any way to point a finger at the parents or this godmother.

CALLAHAN: She was just, out of the kindness of her own heart, letting him come and stay with her as a friend of her own son. So she had no idea that he was capable of doing this from anything he had done, you know, before.

GRACE: Back to Chief William Smith, do you think this was planned, this attempted murder and rape?

CALLAHAN: That`s what we think. We think that this was sexual battery on the child with an attempted murder to cover it up.

GRACE: And to Daniel Horowitz, you know, to form intent, Daniel, can be in the blink of the eye. It doesn`t take some long, drawn-out planning process. It takes the moment. And actually, there was a lot of planning, taking this girl to the trash dump, burying her that way, hiding her.

Hey, Elizabeth, can you show me those concrete blocks again that he put on top of the little girl?

So how are you going to get around intent, Daniel Horowitz?

HOROWITZ: I could get around that intent, I think, Nancy. The very fact that he had the physical ability to kill this young girl and didn`t do it shows you that he did not have the intent to kill. He had the intent to cover up the crime. Now, it`s a thin line but it`s real.

GRACE: Well, Daniel, why do you think he left her in the dumpster? Do you really think he believed she could get out from under all those concrete blocks? He left her there to die.

HOROWITZ: No. He left her there not to come out and speak against him. It`s a fine line, because, realistically, Nancy...

GRACE: Not to come out of the dumpster...

HOROWITZ: ... we know she would have died.

GRACE: ... do you think she was just going to live there, and go to college there, and get a job there, pursue a career at the bottom of the dumpster? Of course he left her to die.

HOROWITZ: Nancy, no, they don`t have too many colleges that are in the dumpsters, but he did not intend to kill her.

GRACE: Oh, good lord. You know what?

HOROWITZ: We`re talking about murder, as opposed to -- it`s a heinous act, but that`s not the same as saying he thought through a murder. There`s a fine line, but he`s on the panic side of this line, not on the murder side.

GRACE: He`s on the panic side of him going to jail. He`s panicking, all right.

HOROWITZ: Yes.

GRACE: Chief William Smith, can you imagine a worse murder than being trapped upside-down, as an 8-year-old little girl, held down by cement blocks and starving to death, day-by-day, hearing people in the distance and not being able to get their attention until you finally die?

SMITH: Well, I think, first of all, the little girl is still in the hospital tonight. She`s got serious injuries, and she`s hopefully stable and recovering. But I think there`s clear intent to murder here. And she was left for dead and buried to cover up the crime.

GRACE: Chief, do you believe this guy`s 17? I mean, do we have any documentation at all?

SMITH: We don`t yet. But we`re going to certainly work with federal authorities and others to try to obtain that documentation. He`s not going anywhere either way. He`s in a facility right now. And I don`t think there`s any likelihood that he`ll be released.

GRACE: Chief, why was he here? Why was he living there? He`d already gotten into trouble with the law once. Granted, it was not serious.

But why was he still here? He`d been kicked out of his home. This godmother, out of the kindness of her heart, put him up on the sleeper sofa. Why was he in Florida?

SMITH: Well, you know, the reality of the situation is, I think, there`s a lot of people in similar situations. We`d like to think that everybody has an ideal home life, but there are many kids out there in this type of a situation.

GRACE: Well, Chief, you`re not trying to blame this rape and attempted murder on him having a bad home life, are you?

SMITH: No, I`m not. But I think the reality...

GRACE: I thought I`d have to come down there and arrest you myself.

SMITH: No, you won`t have to do that. I just think that there`s a reality that 16-, 17-year-olds can be out on their own.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right about that, Chief. You really are. Chief, thank you for being with us.

Everybody, an amazing story tonight. An 8-year-old girl this close to death found thrown away like trash, upside down under concrete blocks in a dumpster. She is alive tonight.

Let`s quickly go to "Trial Tracking": Two Idaho children still missing. Eight- and nine-year-old Shasta and Dylan Groene still missing tonight. Please take a look. Their mom, 13-year-old brother, the mom`s boyfriend murdered in their Idaho home last Monday. Today, police ruled out Steve Groene, the children`s father, as a suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Well, the lie detector, a polygraph, measures physiological response to an emotional state. But Steve Groene`s obviously very distraught, and he`s very upset.

Lie detectors are not foolproof. We know that. Otherwise, the courts would accept them wholeheartedly. They`re an investigative tool. And there`s no evidence linking Steve Groene to this crime to make him a suspect or a person of interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Investigators still searching for a single solid lead. Tonight, a $70,000 reward for information on Shasta and Dylan. If you have any information on these two beautiful children, please call the Kootenai County sheriff, 208-446-2292.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Michael Jackson, the trial rages on in a Santa Maria, California, courtroom. Tonight in Santa Maria, trial attorney Anne Bremner. Also with us, Daniel Horowitz there, and of course, Debra Opri, Jackson family attorney.

But first, to "Celebrity Justice" correspondent Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, I understand you got an engraved invitation. What is it?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Yes. Here it is. It`s an engraved invitation, Nancy. So it`s what they call a subpoena. And I can`t talk about it. I can`t say why I was subpoenaed. But all I can say is that it`s possible sandwiched somewhere in between Jay Leno and Chris Tucker. I might actually be called to take the stand.

GRACE: But you know what? You`re in pretty good company. You`re between...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am.

GRACE: ... Jay Leno, Larry King, Chris Tucker. Hey, you`re up there, girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s an unusual case, but it keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.

GRACE: "I was a witness in the Michael Jackson trial." You know, you`ve got to bring me a t-shirt.

Quick break, everybody. We`re going to go straight back out to Jane when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Debra Opri, will Jackson take the stand?

OPRI: I think he will.

He will. He will. He will. He will.

GRACE: Will he take the stand?

OPRI: I`m telling you, in my opinion, he will.

I`ve said it from day one, when everybody else laughed at me, he would testify. He has the story to tell. He would testify.

Testify.

I`m telling you, testify. He will testify.

In my opinion, he will.

GRACE: Will he take the stand?

OPRI: He will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Hey, Debra, we`re running out of time. He hasn`t taken the stand yet. Will he take the stand?

OPRI: Let me compose myself. He already has, Nancy. Listen. Listen. He already did, perfection testimony, the video. After that video came on, they didn`t need to put him on. Now, ask me something harder. Please.

GRACE: You know what? I`m going to throw it to Daniel Horowitz.

Why didn`t he take the stand so far, and will he?

HOROWITZ: You know, Nancy, I would put him on the stand. I think he`s going to be a great witness. Here`s why. He`s sensitive. He`s kind. You might say he`s a molester, Nancy. I say he`s not.

But one thing...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I agree he`s sensitive. He`s already thrown up during court, shown up late in his P.J.s and started crying. That`s sensitive.

(LAUGHTER)

HOROWITZ: Exactly. Yes. And that will come across to the jury. And Sneddon is so angry at him, it`s going to be an anger match of Sneddon against a person saying, I`m just who I am. And I think at least a certain number of people are going to have their hearts open up.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: That`s the defense? I`m just who I am?

HOROWITZ: Yes. They`re going to care about who he is. I`m just who I am.

Today, outside court, in the morning, there were about 50 people. All the European tourists think that he`s innocent. It has to do with your background whether or not...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: European. Did I just hear European tourists?

HOROWITZ: Yes, the people from Germany

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m sorry. Are they in the jury box? Do I care what European tourists think about Michael Jackson?

HOROWITZ: Yes. I`ll tell you why, because...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: They`re still hung up on Jerry Lewis movies. OK? Don`t care.

HOROWITZ: It`s the same point. They love Jerry Lewis.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Michelle Callahan, help me out. Michelle, thoughts.

CALLAHAN: I think, if he took the stand, it could be bad, because he definitely talks about children in a way that pedophiles talk about children. He creates this grandiose sense about children.

I`m afraid that some of the quirky, weird things he has said in the past, he might be tempted to say again. And that might sway people in the other direction.

GRACE: Jane Velez-Mitchell, there`s no way this guy`s going to take the stand. But Leno, Jay Leno, is on the witness list, Chris Tucker. Why?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, these are stars with something to say.

For example, Jay Leno is reportedly going to take the stand and say that he got a phone call from the accuser and they were kind of grifting for money allegedly. He heard the accuser`s mother in the background. That`s not the first time we`ve heard somebody testify that they would hear the accuser`s mother in the background egging these children on, and that he said he became so concerned, he contacted authorities.

So, that could be very devastating for the prosecution. And I have to say, vis-a-vis this whole thing, will Michael Jackson testify or not, he doesn`t have to testify. The case is wrapping up. Less is more. There`s a general sense that the defense is doing quite well now. And it seemed to me that the prosecution was losing its temper almost today. In court, DA Tom Sneddon accused a community newspaper editor who had nothing nice to say about the accuser`s mother of being rude, which shocked everybody. That was very unusual.

GRACE: Hey, Debra, we can see you.

To Anne Bremner, a high-profile Seattle trial lawyer.

Anne, it`s a given Jackson is not going to take the stand, but let me ask you this about the defense of Michael Jackson. Just ballpark figure, how much do you think they`re charging Jackson for this defense? Ballpark.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ballpark? Ten million. I mean, we knew pretrial...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK. So, they`re spending $10 million to prove the mom lied on a welfare application? OK. Priceless. What`s the point?

BREMNER: Well, we knew $5 million before trial. So, I mean, that`s what we had heard. But the thing is, he just sold Neverland, supposedly, for $37 million. You know, a defense like this is expensive. And who knows how much of his...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: But, Anne Bremner, the point is, they spent the whole day, they spent weeks trying to show the boy`s mother -- she was on welfare for 16 months. She voluntarily wrote welfare and said, I`m working now. I have another income. I need to get off welfare. Thank you very much for helping me. They showed that she did not include her personal injury lawsuit money from J.C. Penney`s.

BREMNER: Right.

GRACE: OK. They got her. They`ve proven welfare fraud. Now, where does that leave us? Does that mean the molestation didn`t happen?

(CROSSTALK)

BREMNER: Absolutely not. Think about errors on your taxes or errors on your paperwork. It`s a big who cares, Nancy.

This is about the nut of the case. And the nut isn`t Michael Jackson. The nut of the case is the molestation and whether or not Michael Jackson spent 365 nights with one boy. This was in the defense case. And this boy and fingerprints on porn and an eyewitness`s brother, and the pattern evidence -- and this town, Santa Maria, this jury, this is anywhere USA. This is small-town USA. This is an everyman jury.

And no one talks about that on the air, Nancy. I know you do. But the thing is, we can sit and tear apart every little piece of evidence on the air and tear it apart in analysis. But the fact remains that this jury is in a town with the tri-tip capital of California. The next town over has more dogs than people. So it`s just...

(CROSSTALK)

OPRI: The jury likes Michael Jackson.

GRACE: OK, go ahead, Debra.

BREMNER: I don`t know. I`ve been in there every day almost.

OPRI: The fact remains that this jury likes Michael Jackson.

Jane, I`m surprised you`re here today. You`re gagged now, gagged.

And, Anne Bremner, I love you as an attorney, but you know what? You`re totally off base with this jury in this trial. It`s time to pop that cork champagne. That`s it.

(CROSSTALK)

BREMNER: I think it`s a small-town, commonsense jury.

OPRI: That`s right.

BREMNER: And we have to talk about that.

OPRI: Everybody`s a liar for prosecution.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

You know who has their finger on the pulse of the country? Jay Leno. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO")

JAY LENO, HOST: Let`s see what`s going on in the Michael Jackson trial. Oh, in the Michael Jackson trial, Michael`s attorneys are now trying to portray Michael as the real victim. Is that going to fly? Michael, the victim? I mean, he stopped grabbing himself years ago. Michael`s too old for Michael.

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: He`s not interested anymore. He`s too old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Jay Leno, "Tonight Show" host, now named as a defense witness for Michael Jackson.

OK. You know, Debra Opri -- thank you, Elizabeth. You know, I`ve seen that shot enough. Whenever she wants to get back at me, she shows me...

OPRI: Yes, Elizabeth, get that off. Get it off.

GRACE: Yes. Elizabeth, stop it.

Back to you, Debra Opri. You want to tell me you know the pulse of the jury better than Leno?

OPRI: Nancy Grace, let me tell you something. I have practiced up there. I know the people up there. Those people are commonsense, reasonable, and they like Michael Jackson. And those videos of Neverland and the two-and-a-half hours of Michael talking, I`ll tell you something. There were three or four people crying when they saw that video. I was crying when I saw that video, and I don`t cry anymore at this point in my life.

So, as far as I`m concerned, this jury has no credibility feelings for the accuser and the mother. And Tom Mesereau very succinctly has been chipping away at their credibility and with Jay Leno, and I believe that will be it for the celebrities, except you, Jane. I think this is wrapped up this week.

GRACE: So, Jane Velez-Mitchell, was the jury crying after the Bashir outtake video?

OPRI: Yes or no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the Bashir documentary, which they saw as well, is very emotional. Then you have the outtake documentary. It may have been emotional to some people, but I have to tell you, the most recent tour of Neverland, a 19-minute video that was played by the defense, didn`t seem to provoke very much emotion at all.

That was sort of a theoretical tour if you were a theoretical guest of Neverland. And the jurors seemed to be kind of looking around. They didn`t seem that engaged in it at all.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, did I miss that? Did I miss the answer? Did you see -- Jane Velez-Mitchell, did you see jurors crying after the Michael Jackson video?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I did not, no. And I`ve said from the very beginning that this is the hardest jury to read.

GRACE: OK. So, back to...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are absolutely deadpan.

GRACE: Back to Deb Opri. Who told you the jury was crying? Michael Jackson?

OPRI: No, no, no. Listen, I`m sitting in the middle of the courtroom next to Katherine and Joe Jackson. Jane, you were on the far right. Jim Hammer from FOX was sleeping -- no, he wasn`t sleeping for that witness -- on the far left. There was a young woman crying in the front, a person in the back crying. I saw it.

GRACE: Uh-oh. We`ve got conflict in testimony.

OPRI: So, Jane, I`m sorry. You might have been out of there at that time.

GRACE: Let`s settle this thing.

Anne Bremner, you were in court. Did you see a single juror crying after the Jackson video? Yes, no?

BREMNER: No. I haven`t seen jurors crying in here.

GRACE: OK.

BREMNER: It`s 2-1, Debra. You`re out, buddy.

Quick break, everybody.

To trial tracking. Today, opening statements in the trial of two former American West pilots accused of being drunk while operating a jetliner, an airplane, the plane already pushed back from the gate in Miami, engines running, flight called back. Security smelled alcohol on the pilots` breath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLAH KATZ, PROSECUTOR: What mattered most to them was enjoying their evening in Miami starting the night before and partying on through from 9:30 at night until 5:00 in the morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s a heck of a party. The pilots, Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes, challenged the government`s right to prosecute them, taking it all the way to the U.S. Supremes. But, today, they got their day in court, opening statements kicking off this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY WHITE, ABUSE VICTIM: Going to see him, facing him, going through past trauma, it`s really hard to move on when you`re still having to face the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Tonight, an amazing story. An 8- year-old girl, Ashley White, has spoken out at a parole hearing. She began being molested by her own blood grandfather, Eugene Swenson, starting age 7. She went before that parole board twice. After multiple calls to Swenson`s former defense, no reply.

And, tonight, with us here in the studio, Ashley White. What was it like going before that parole board?

WHITE: Oh, it was so hard, especially after he admitted. I mean, I didn`t think I was going to be able to do it. You know, at first, I had the courage and the strength. And then, when he admitted, I just -- I broke. It just -- all these years, you know, he called me a liar, and then I started believing him, even though I knew it happened. And then he admitted it. So...

GRACE: You know what I find incredible? Number one, your courage.

WHITE: Well, thank you.

GRACE: But a girl as young as you are going before a parole board to try to fight to keep your own grandfather behind bars. Did you get any resistance from family members?

WHITE: No. My family was very supportive. It was just so hard for everybody to go through what we went through. And we all just don`t want it to happen to any other child.

GRACE: What did you hope to gain by going and speaking to the parole board?

WHITE: I wanted an impact on him staying in for what he has -- what he`s done and the crime he`s committed.

GRACE: I took a look at your speech that you gave the parole board, and in it everyone -- there`s your grandfather right there. Megan Kanka, Polly Klaas, Samantha Runnion, Sarah Michelle Lunde, Amanda Brown, Jesse Lunsford, you showed pictures of all of these girls to the parole board. Why?

WHITE: I wanted to talk on those who couldn`t be there to talk for themselves anymore, to show them respect and to show what all sex offenders are capable of, all...

GRACE: If they get out.

WHITE: Yes. They have a cycle that works straight to kidnapping, rape and murder. You know, it starts out with molesting and sodomy and then goes straight to that.

GRACE: You know, it`s amazing that your grandfather admitted to the other two molestations of two other young victims, but he held out on you. He refused to admit it until recently. Why do you think that is?

WHITE: I have no idea. Probably because I was his worst charge. And then he didn`t admit to one other, which was the same age as me. And he probably didn`t admit to him because then, you know, it would look like, oh, so he does like that age. But it didn`t, you know...

GRACE: I wonder how many victims he`s really had.

WHITE: Oh, many. Many are still coming out.

GRACE: Oh.

WHITE: You know, there was eight grandchildren in the case that he got, but only four were charged on.

GRACE: Yes.

Out to Debra Opri, defense attorney.

Debra, I think I know why he finally admitted to this molesting. And it went on for a long time.

OPRI: Yes, it did.

GRACE: It started when she was 7 years old, first grade. You know, the parole board, they don`t want to hear anything from you until you finally admit...

OPRI: Remorse. Remorse.

GRACE: Exactly. And if you don`t admit and show remorse, forget it. That`s why this guy finally admitted it.

(CROSSTALK)

OPRI: Nancy, it`s even more than that.

First of all, there`s a formula for getting out. And he`s not going to get out now. And he won`t get out the next go-around and maybe the next go-around after that. First, he has two years of therapy. This young woman in your studio tonight, how many, seven or eight years? I think it was an insincere apology. I think he was throwing this up, knowing this girl had that information. And, finally, he`s still a danger to society. He`s a danger to society, because there are many people out there who haven`t come forward. He probably did it to a lot more and he`s just itching to get out.

And, as an attorney, I would say, hey, look, buddy, stay in there. You need a little bit more therapy.

GRACE: Well, I definitely agree.

Back to Ashley White. She is taking on the system to keep her own grandfather behind bars.

Power to you, Ashley.

WHITE: Thank you.

OPRI: Yes.

GRACE: And why do you think -- you`re such a young girl, but you`re so articulate. Why do you think that molestation and rape victims somehow feel like it`s their fault? When you were little, did you somehow feel like this was your fault?

WHITE: When I got older, I did, because, when I was little, I was so young, I didn`t understand any of it. You know, I didn`t even know what was going on. When I got a little older, I carried...

GRACE: Was this fondling or full-blown sex?

WHITE: It was fondling. He didn`t rape me.

GRACE: Thank God.

WHITE: yes. I mean, he was to the point where he was going to kidnap me. I don`t know if you read...

GRACE: I did.

WHITE: OK, where he was going to take me. He had his bags packed and everything. And then -- but I don`t know. For a while, I held a little bit of guilt, thinking, was it something I did? Was it -- you know, and I can see where other victims think, well, maybe I shouldn`t have done that or went with him or maybe it`s somehow my fault.

But it`s not. In their mind, they pick out the person. They have it all planned out. You know, you`re just a victim in it. And I want to show people that you`re not the victim. You can be the survivor and fight back and, you know, just don`t let them win at all.

GRACE: Was he at the hearing when you went?

WHITE: He was. The second time I went, I asked for him to leave the room when I testified. I just didn`t -- I saw him the first time. I just didn`t think it was necessary for me to see him a second time.

GRACE: I agree. Did they have questions for you?

WHITE: They didn`t really have any questions. They said that, when I held up the children that were murdered...

GRACE: Yes.

WHITE: That it wasn`t Mr. Swenson`s cases. And I felt that, it`s not his case, but you let him out, it`s going to be his cases, not these exact children, but there will be...

GRACE: That`s beautifully put, beautifully put.

WHITE: Other ones that are going to be exactly his case.

GRACE: With us tonight, a young girl, Ashley White, who is taking on the system, speaking out, to keep her biological grandfather behind bars. He has had multiple child molestation victims. She is one of them. And she does not want him released.

Very quickly to tonight`s all-points bulletin. FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Raul Garcia- Gomez, wanted in connection with the murder of a police officer May 8, 2005, in Denver, Colorado. Gomez, 5`6``, 150 pounds, brown eyes, shaved brown hair. Could be driving an `85 Thunderbird, California plates, armed, dangerous.

If you have any information on Raul Garcia-Gomez, call the FBI, 303- 629-7171.

Local news next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back.

And, remember, live coverage of the Jackson trial tomorrow 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us as we remember an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people.

Take a look at 15-year-old Tabitha Tuders, last seen April 29, 2003, in East Nashville, Tennessee. If you have any information on Tabitha Tuders, please contact the Nashville Police Department, 615-862-8600. Or go to BeyondMissing.com. Please, help us.

Welcome back, everybody.

The story of a young girl fighting back against the system, trying to keep her own grandfather behind bars.

Now, while we were talking in break, this guy got a life sentence, and he`s already come up. He`s only been behind bars a few years. He`s already had two parole hearings. Why? Why has this guy already had two parole hearings? He`s a multiple child molester. And tell the viewers what the parole member said to you after the hearing.

WHITE: Oh, he just was uncompassionate. He said to us that, you know, you need to be prepared, because, someday, this guy will get out. And our family was just, uh, what? In shock. I mean, how can you just -- you know, he did write a letter and he did apologize.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... young girls.

You know, that really beats all, Michelle. You`ve got a girl fighting, one of many child molestation victims. The guy has a life sentence. And he says, well, buckle your seat belt.

What was his name?

WHITE: Mr. Gallegos (ph).

GRACE: Gallegos, on the parole board, saying, well, get ready.

CALLAHAN: Exactly.

GRACE: You know, he`s going to get out.

CALLAHAN: Exactly. What kind of message are we sending people? That this is OK and we`re looking for opportunities to put this guy back on the street, so he can go molest some more children? There have to be more we don`t even know about.

GRACE: You know what? You are telling victims tonight everywhere that they can make it through and survive and triumph. And I`m so thankful for you being here.

WHITE: Oh, thank you so much.

GRACE: You really ran inspiration.

WHITE: Oh, thank you.

I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight, inviting all of us into your home.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN.

I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END


Aired May 23, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a trash dump-turned-burial ground for an 8-year-old little girl abducted from her own home and then a miracle. The little girl found buried alive, deep under an abandoned trash dump.
And an 18-year-old girl tonight wants to lock the door and throw away the key on her own grandfather.

And it is day 58 in the Michael Jackson child sex trial.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Believe it or not, day 58 of the Michael Jackson child sex trial. Will Jackson`s defense cut it short and rest their case?

And 18-year-old Ashley White takes on the justice system to land her own grandfather behind bars. Why? Starting 11 years ago, at the age of seven, he began years of child molestation.

And tonight, a miracle. An 8-year-old girl, sexually assaulted and literally thrown out with the trash, left to die in an abandoned Florida landfill, is found alive by police. We go live to Florida for the latest on the little girl`s discovery and on the man Florida police say is responsible.

Tonight, in West Palm Beach, Florida, Lake Worth Police Chief William Smith; in Santa Maria, California, defense attorney Daniel Horowitz; in L.A., defense attorney Debra Opri; in New York, psychologist Michelle Callahan.

But first, let`s go to Lake Worth, Florida, and CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Welcome, Susan. What happened?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Nancy.

It`s a remarkable and amazing story of survival. I`m in front of this closed landfill run by the city. And behind me, you can possibly make out way off in the distance a dumpster where this little girl, according to police, was buried alive by her alleged assailant, a 17-year-old teenager who is now charged with attempted murder and sexual battery of this little girl.

Apparently, on Sunday, he himself reported this little girl missing. Police later said that he admitted the story he told them was a lie, that she had been kidnapped by three or four mysterious men. They issued an Amber Alert. They believed that the little girl was missing.

They looked all over for her. There were about 100 officers out there looking for her. And then, after about seven hours, the police were checking out this landfill, which is just a few blocks from the home where this little girl had been staying with a godmother just for the weekend, just for the night.

And the officer came upon a dumpster. Inside it, a yellow recycling bin that he said was filled halfway up with rocks. He looked inside. He said he saw only a hand and a foot. He had to blink his eyes because he couldn`t believe it. And when he looked again, sure enough, there it was.

He yelled. He shook the recycling bin. There was no movement, no sound. He called for a superior, a boss who came over, and he looked inside. And don`t you know, then he says, "I saw a finger move." He couldn`t believe it.

They called in the rescue squad. And this little girl, according to authorities, was able to immediately start answering questions once they pulled her out from under these 30-pound boulders, small rocks, and she was able to, they say, identify her attacker. Later on, authorities say that he then admitted to the alleged crime -- Nancy?

GRACE: Susan Candiotti, the name of the alleged attacker, Milagro Cunningham, what can you tell us about him?

CANDIOTTI: Well, we`re learning a little bit about him more and more each day. But it`s not all that much. He is 17-years-old. He is from the Bahamas, according to the place where he had been staying, the woman`s house where he had been staying, the godmother of the alleged victim.

And he had been living in this country for a couple of years, she says. He had been kicked out of a house where he had been staying, according to this godmother. And she took him in to live with her family.

Now, apparently, he had been sleeping in the house that night along with other children in the house when this alleged incident occurred. He has now been charged, as a juvenile for now, with attempted murder, sex battery, and false imprisonment. He appeared in court this day for now being held as a juvenile.

But the state attorney`s office here tells me that, on Thursday, it is likely they will bring this matter before a grand jury so that they will ask them whether the grand jury believes there is enough evidence to hold him over, to indict him as an adult. That`s what the state attorney`s office wants to do.

GRACE: Susan Candiotti, how do we know this guy is just 17? His birth certificate and all of his documentation would be in the Bahamas. And what was he doing here to start with?

CANDIOTTI: Well, all of that is unclear. At this point, Nancy, we`re just hearing rumors. And because we don`t have official information on it, we don`t want to pass on rumors. So for now, we keep asking, "Well, how do you know who he is? And how long has he been here? And is he here legally?"

And apparently he is. But even the state attorney`s office told me this afternoon, "I don`t know. We`re still looking into this background, and the public defender might be finding out more about him before even we do," she said.

GRACE: Susan, I want to look at that birth certificate myself, OK? I want to see if this guy`s really just 17.

And the way it works -- out to Chief William Smith who`s with us from Lake Worth Police Department -- if you`re a juvenile, you are originally charged as a juvenile, but then the grand jury can usurp that. There is a procedure for juveniles being bound over to adult court if they`re capital felonies, felonies that once called for the death penalty, now call for life, such as kidnapping, such as rape.

To Chief William Smith, Chief, welcome. It`s not very often we have a happy ending where a child is actually found. Tell me the story about finding the little girl.

CHIEF WILLIAM SMITH, INVESTIGATOR IN CASE OF GIRL BURIED ALIVE: Well, I can tell you that I`ve never seen anything like that. The change in expression -- all of us, all the officers, the family, we all were expecting bad news. And at first, we thought that`s what we had.

When the detectives first approached, they didn`t see any movement, any signs of life. But when the finger wiggled, our lieutenant, Dave Matthews, shouted that she moved. Sergeant Mike Hall, the officer that actually found her, called for an ambulance right away. And the expression just changed. Everybody was overjoyed.

GRACE: To defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, you`ve got a tough time defending this guy. Remember, he`s the one that said, first of all, I think, five people took the little girl, home invasion, and he witnesses the whole thing. The five people take the little girl.

Then he goes, "Oh, no, it was three. Oh, no, it was two. Oh, actually, you know what? It was me." OK, your guy got a big problem on this case, Daniel Horowitz. What`s your defense?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, and don`t hit the "Turn off the Horowitz Mike Button." In cases like this...

GRACE: I`m not making any promises.

HOROWITZ: ... it shows -- this shows what`s wrong with our system. Listen carefully. The system is at fault because it takes people with crimes of compulsion and forces them to -- once they`ve committed the crime -- it forces them to then take the next step and throw the victims in the garbage, kill them, silence them.

If we want these crimes to stop, we need to step back and say, "It is not the same to have a sexual aberration or compulsion as to be a conscious, planned murderer. So we as a society need to look at ourselves if we want this to stop."

GRACE: Daniel, I hope you argue that to the jury, because you will definitely get consecutive life sentences on that one.

Debra Opri, take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually pulled myself up and looked down into the recycling bin and saw her hand. And I was there probably two seconds or so, and then I saw her finger move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You saw her finger move?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did. And that`s the first thing I -- the first thing that came out of my mouth, "Her finger just moved."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And to Debra Opri, it`s my understanding -- hey, Elizabeth, if you can, could you pull that still picture of those huge rocks they dumped out of the dumpster, this little girl was actually under?

Debra Opri, the little girl was face down.

DEBRA OPRI, JACKSON DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know.

GRACE: No, there are a bunch of -- there they are. Thanks, Elizabeth. These rocks were on top...

OPRI: I know.

GRACE: What is your defense? Give me your best shot. Come on. Bring it on.

OPRI: Number one, it`s going to be a very difficult defense, unless I can have his confession kicked out because he didn`t have a lawyer or an adult wasn`t there. He still is a minor, if they can substantiate that he`s a minor.

Where are we looking, as far as a defense, Nancy? We hopefully would plead this out. This is a case that can never go to trial. I`d work to plead it out as a minor juvie hall `til 25-years-old. But I just don`t see a defense other than insanity, based upon the fact that he`s angry, troubled, and it was a crime of sexual passion. That`s the best.

GRACE: Oh, angry, angry, angry. So the defense is, "I did it but I was mad, so let me off." OK, I`m going to hold that thought, too.

We need a shrink. Psychotherapist Michelle Callahan with us. Insanity, the fact he then lied to police according to reports tonight, it was five guys, then it was three guys, home invasion, "I saw the whole thing," uh-oh, you know what? It was really me, officer. Now, how are you going to get an insanity defense out of that?

MICHELLE CALLAHAN, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re not. That`s a load of crap. He knew what he was doing. And you can`t go and say you`re crazy because you did something criminal. You did something disgusting and horrendous to a little child.

GRACE: We`re going to go straight back down to Florida and CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Also with us, Lake Worth Police Department Chief William Smith. His people found this little girl, thrown away like she was trash, an 8-year-old girl that survived a sex attack and then being thrown to the bottom of a landfill. Tonight, she is alive. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. MIKE HALL, LAKE WORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: Inside the big, green dumpster was a big, yellow recycling bin. I leaned in, flipped the lid open on the recycling bin, and saw a large concrete -- concrete slabs piled into the recycling bin. And in between those concrete slabs, I saw a small foot and a small hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HALL: Walked up to the dumpster, stepped up here, and, within arm`s reach, there was a yellow recycling bin with the lid closed on it. I reached over, flipped the lid open, started looking in.

You see behind you -- I seen those large concrete boulders about halfway filled up. And as I continued looking down, you know, there was what I believed to be a small hand and a small foot. I started shaking, started shaking the recycling bin, you know, looking for movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight in Florida, an 8-year-old little girl was allegedly raped, kidnapped, and then buried at the bottom of a dumpster, miraculously found tonight. The alleged perpetrator behind bars. He will be back in court later this week. A grand jury, we believe, is meeting on Thursday to determine what the official charges will be.

Let`s go down to Lake Worth. Standing by, police department Chief William Smith. Chief, what first made you suspicious of this guy`s story?

SMITH: Well, our investigators began to see some holes in his story. It just didn`t make sense. It was a little bit too much to be true.

GRACE: About a home invasion, people he didn`t know, that he chased a van. They stopped the van long enough to get out, and fight with him, and then jumped back in the van. Then the number of the assailants began to change and dwindled down to one. Gee, who could it be?

Question: On Thursday, is that a grand jury proceeding? Or will he be in court? What happens next?

SMITH: I believe that`s a grand jury proceeding that the state attorney will guide the grand jury through. I doubt that the suspect`s going to be in court.

GRACE: Describe to me, Chief, how you found her. Was she facedown? Was she upside down? How was she positioned in that dumpster?

SMITH: She was upside-down head first in the dumpster, which was standing up. And the large concrete blocks were piled in on top of her.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE DRISCOLL, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: She identified her attacker immediately. And I would just emphasize that the position she was in, it would be similar to that trash can over there, upside down, with very large, heavy boulders on top of her. I mean, she was in a position that you wouldn`t think someone could ever survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Chief, you immediately issued an Amber Alert. A massive volunteer search effort began. What charges exactly does Cunningham face?

SMITH: He faces attempted murder, false imprisonment, and sexual battery on a child under 13 years of age.

GRACE: Do you have any doubt, Chief, that he will be bound over and treated as an adult?

SMITH: I think that is highly probable.

GRACE: And to Debra Opri, Debra, this false imprisonment charge, you know that`s going to graduate to a full-blown kidnapping.

OPRI: Absolutely.

GRACE: In most jurisdictions, that`s 20-to-life on a kidnapping.

OPRI: Absolutely. The best the criminal defense attorney can do, and this is pie in the sky, try to get him a juvie plea bargain. And if he doesn`t take a juvie plea bargain, that guy`s crazier than even I think.

GRACE: And here in the studio with me, Michelle, question regarding the godmother. My immediate question was, where was the mother? Do we need to indict her, too?

But it sounds to me like the mom was working, and this godmother would keep the little girl routinely on weekends, certain nights, as well as allowing Cunningham to sleep on the sofa. An allegedly 17-year-old young man, had never had any serious trouble. Worst thing he had ever done, that I know of, was throwing a stone into a car window. That`s not so bad. So I don`t see there`s any way to point a finger at the parents or this godmother.

CALLAHAN: She was just, out of the kindness of her own heart, letting him come and stay with her as a friend of her own son. So she had no idea that he was capable of doing this from anything he had done, you know, before.

GRACE: Back to Chief William Smith, do you think this was planned, this attempted murder and rape?

CALLAHAN: That`s what we think. We think that this was sexual battery on the child with an attempted murder to cover it up.

GRACE: And to Daniel Horowitz, you know, to form intent, Daniel, can be in the blink of the eye. It doesn`t take some long, drawn-out planning process. It takes the moment. And actually, there was a lot of planning, taking this girl to the trash dump, burying her that way, hiding her.

Hey, Elizabeth, can you show me those concrete blocks again that he put on top of the little girl?

So how are you going to get around intent, Daniel Horowitz?

HOROWITZ: I could get around that intent, I think, Nancy. The very fact that he had the physical ability to kill this young girl and didn`t do it shows you that he did not have the intent to kill. He had the intent to cover up the crime. Now, it`s a thin line but it`s real.

GRACE: Well, Daniel, why do you think he left her in the dumpster? Do you really think he believed she could get out from under all those concrete blocks? He left her there to die.

HOROWITZ: No. He left her there not to come out and speak against him. It`s a fine line, because, realistically, Nancy...

GRACE: Not to come out of the dumpster...

HOROWITZ: ... we know she would have died.

GRACE: ... do you think she was just going to live there, and go to college there, and get a job there, pursue a career at the bottom of the dumpster? Of course he left her to die.

HOROWITZ: Nancy, no, they don`t have too many colleges that are in the dumpsters, but he did not intend to kill her.

GRACE: Oh, good lord. You know what?

HOROWITZ: We`re talking about murder, as opposed to -- it`s a heinous act, but that`s not the same as saying he thought through a murder. There`s a fine line, but he`s on the panic side of this line, not on the murder side.

GRACE: He`s on the panic side of him going to jail. He`s panicking, all right.

HOROWITZ: Yes.

GRACE: Chief William Smith, can you imagine a worse murder than being trapped upside-down, as an 8-year-old little girl, held down by cement blocks and starving to death, day-by-day, hearing people in the distance and not being able to get their attention until you finally die?

SMITH: Well, I think, first of all, the little girl is still in the hospital tonight. She`s got serious injuries, and she`s hopefully stable and recovering. But I think there`s clear intent to murder here. And she was left for dead and buried to cover up the crime.

GRACE: Chief, do you believe this guy`s 17? I mean, do we have any documentation at all?

SMITH: We don`t yet. But we`re going to certainly work with federal authorities and others to try to obtain that documentation. He`s not going anywhere either way. He`s in a facility right now. And I don`t think there`s any likelihood that he`ll be released.

GRACE: Chief, why was he here? Why was he living there? He`d already gotten into trouble with the law once. Granted, it was not serious.

But why was he still here? He`d been kicked out of his home. This godmother, out of the kindness of her heart, put him up on the sleeper sofa. Why was he in Florida?

SMITH: Well, you know, the reality of the situation is, I think, there`s a lot of people in similar situations. We`d like to think that everybody has an ideal home life, but there are many kids out there in this type of a situation.

GRACE: Well, Chief, you`re not trying to blame this rape and attempted murder on him having a bad home life, are you?

SMITH: No, I`m not. But I think the reality...

GRACE: I thought I`d have to come down there and arrest you myself.

SMITH: No, you won`t have to do that. I just think that there`s a reality that 16-, 17-year-olds can be out on their own.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right about that, Chief. You really are. Chief, thank you for being with us.

Everybody, an amazing story tonight. An 8-year-old girl this close to death found thrown away like trash, upside down under concrete blocks in a dumpster. She is alive tonight.

Let`s quickly go to "Trial Tracking": Two Idaho children still missing. Eight- and nine-year-old Shasta and Dylan Groene still missing tonight. Please take a look. Their mom, 13-year-old brother, the mom`s boyfriend murdered in their Idaho home last Monday. Today, police ruled out Steve Groene, the children`s father, as a suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Well, the lie detector, a polygraph, measures physiological response to an emotional state. But Steve Groene`s obviously very distraught, and he`s very upset.

Lie detectors are not foolproof. We know that. Otherwise, the courts would accept them wholeheartedly. They`re an investigative tool. And there`s no evidence linking Steve Groene to this crime to make him a suspect or a person of interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Investigators still searching for a single solid lead. Tonight, a $70,000 reward for information on Shasta and Dylan. If you have any information on these two beautiful children, please call the Kootenai County sheriff, 208-446-2292.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Michael Jackson, the trial rages on in a Santa Maria, California, courtroom. Tonight in Santa Maria, trial attorney Anne Bremner. Also with us, Daniel Horowitz there, and of course, Debra Opri, Jackson family attorney.

But first, to "Celebrity Justice" correspondent Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, I understand you got an engraved invitation. What is it?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Yes. Here it is. It`s an engraved invitation, Nancy. So it`s what they call a subpoena. And I can`t talk about it. I can`t say why I was subpoenaed. But all I can say is that it`s possible sandwiched somewhere in between Jay Leno and Chris Tucker. I might actually be called to take the stand.

GRACE: But you know what? You`re in pretty good company. You`re between...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am.

GRACE: ... Jay Leno, Larry King, Chris Tucker. Hey, you`re up there, girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s an unusual case, but it keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.

GRACE: "I was a witness in the Michael Jackson trial." You know, you`ve got to bring me a t-shirt.

Quick break, everybody. We`re going to go straight back out to Jane when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Debra Opri, will Jackson take the stand?

OPRI: I think he will.

He will. He will. He will. He will.

GRACE: Will he take the stand?

OPRI: I`m telling you, in my opinion, he will.

I`ve said it from day one, when everybody else laughed at me, he would testify. He has the story to tell. He would testify.

Testify.

I`m telling you, testify. He will testify.

In my opinion, he will.

GRACE: Will he take the stand?

OPRI: He will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Hey, Debra, we`re running out of time. He hasn`t taken the stand yet. Will he take the stand?

OPRI: Let me compose myself. He already has, Nancy. Listen. Listen. He already did, perfection testimony, the video. After that video came on, they didn`t need to put him on. Now, ask me something harder. Please.

GRACE: You know what? I`m going to throw it to Daniel Horowitz.

Why didn`t he take the stand so far, and will he?

HOROWITZ: You know, Nancy, I would put him on the stand. I think he`s going to be a great witness. Here`s why. He`s sensitive. He`s kind. You might say he`s a molester, Nancy. I say he`s not.

But one thing...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I agree he`s sensitive. He`s already thrown up during court, shown up late in his P.J.s and started crying. That`s sensitive.

(LAUGHTER)

HOROWITZ: Exactly. Yes. And that will come across to the jury. And Sneddon is so angry at him, it`s going to be an anger match of Sneddon against a person saying, I`m just who I am. And I think at least a certain number of people are going to have their hearts open up.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: That`s the defense? I`m just who I am?

HOROWITZ: Yes. They`re going to care about who he is. I`m just who I am.

Today, outside court, in the morning, there were about 50 people. All the European tourists think that he`s innocent. It has to do with your background whether or not...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: European. Did I just hear European tourists?

HOROWITZ: Yes, the people from Germany

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m sorry. Are they in the jury box? Do I care what European tourists think about Michael Jackson?

HOROWITZ: Yes. I`ll tell you why, because...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: They`re still hung up on Jerry Lewis movies. OK? Don`t care.

HOROWITZ: It`s the same point. They love Jerry Lewis.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Michelle Callahan, help me out. Michelle, thoughts.

CALLAHAN: I think, if he took the stand, it could be bad, because he definitely talks about children in a way that pedophiles talk about children. He creates this grandiose sense about children.

I`m afraid that some of the quirky, weird things he has said in the past, he might be tempted to say again. And that might sway people in the other direction.

GRACE: Jane Velez-Mitchell, there`s no way this guy`s going to take the stand. But Leno, Jay Leno, is on the witness list, Chris Tucker. Why?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, these are stars with something to say.

For example, Jay Leno is reportedly going to take the stand and say that he got a phone call from the accuser and they were kind of grifting for money allegedly. He heard the accuser`s mother in the background. That`s not the first time we`ve heard somebody testify that they would hear the accuser`s mother in the background egging these children on, and that he said he became so concerned, he contacted authorities.

So, that could be very devastating for the prosecution. And I have to say, vis-a-vis this whole thing, will Michael Jackson testify or not, he doesn`t have to testify. The case is wrapping up. Less is more. There`s a general sense that the defense is doing quite well now. And it seemed to me that the prosecution was losing its temper almost today. In court, DA Tom Sneddon accused a community newspaper editor who had nothing nice to say about the accuser`s mother of being rude, which shocked everybody. That was very unusual.

GRACE: Hey, Debra, we can see you.

To Anne Bremner, a high-profile Seattle trial lawyer.

Anne, it`s a given Jackson is not going to take the stand, but let me ask you this about the defense of Michael Jackson. Just ballpark figure, how much do you think they`re charging Jackson for this defense? Ballpark.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ballpark? Ten million. I mean, we knew pretrial...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK. So, they`re spending $10 million to prove the mom lied on a welfare application? OK. Priceless. What`s the point?

BREMNER: Well, we knew $5 million before trial. So, I mean, that`s what we had heard. But the thing is, he just sold Neverland, supposedly, for $37 million. You know, a defense like this is expensive. And who knows how much of his...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: But, Anne Bremner, the point is, they spent the whole day, they spent weeks trying to show the boy`s mother -- she was on welfare for 16 months. She voluntarily wrote welfare and said, I`m working now. I have another income. I need to get off welfare. Thank you very much for helping me. They showed that she did not include her personal injury lawsuit money from J.C. Penney`s.

BREMNER: Right.

GRACE: OK. They got her. They`ve proven welfare fraud. Now, where does that leave us? Does that mean the molestation didn`t happen?

(CROSSTALK)

BREMNER: Absolutely not. Think about errors on your taxes or errors on your paperwork. It`s a big who cares, Nancy.

This is about the nut of the case. And the nut isn`t Michael Jackson. The nut of the case is the molestation and whether or not Michael Jackson spent 365 nights with one boy. This was in the defense case. And this boy and fingerprints on porn and an eyewitness`s brother, and the pattern evidence -- and this town, Santa Maria, this jury, this is anywhere USA. This is small-town USA. This is an everyman jury.

And no one talks about that on the air, Nancy. I know you do. But the thing is, we can sit and tear apart every little piece of evidence on the air and tear it apart in analysis. But the fact remains that this jury is in a town with the tri-tip capital of California. The next town over has more dogs than people. So it`s just...

(CROSSTALK)

OPRI: The jury likes Michael Jackson.

GRACE: OK, go ahead, Debra.

BREMNER: I don`t know. I`ve been in there every day almost.

OPRI: The fact remains that this jury likes Michael Jackson.

Jane, I`m surprised you`re here today. You`re gagged now, gagged.

And, Anne Bremner, I love you as an attorney, but you know what? You`re totally off base with this jury in this trial. It`s time to pop that cork champagne. That`s it.

(CROSSTALK)

BREMNER: I think it`s a small-town, commonsense jury.

OPRI: That`s right.

BREMNER: And we have to talk about that.

OPRI: Everybody`s a liar for prosecution.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

You know who has their finger on the pulse of the country? Jay Leno. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO")

JAY LENO, HOST: Let`s see what`s going on in the Michael Jackson trial. Oh, in the Michael Jackson trial, Michael`s attorneys are now trying to portray Michael as the real victim. Is that going to fly? Michael, the victim? I mean, he stopped grabbing himself years ago. Michael`s too old for Michael.

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: He`s not interested anymore. He`s too old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Jay Leno, "Tonight Show" host, now named as a defense witness for Michael Jackson.

OK. You know, Debra Opri -- thank you, Elizabeth. You know, I`ve seen that shot enough. Whenever she wants to get back at me, she shows me...

OPRI: Yes, Elizabeth, get that off. Get it off.

GRACE: Yes. Elizabeth, stop it.

Back to you, Debra Opri. You want to tell me you know the pulse of the jury better than Leno?

OPRI: Nancy Grace, let me tell you something. I have practiced up there. I know the people up there. Those people are commonsense, reasonable, and they like Michael Jackson. And those videos of Neverland and the two-and-a-half hours of Michael talking, I`ll tell you something. There were three or four people crying when they saw that video. I was crying when I saw that video, and I don`t cry anymore at this point in my life.

So, as far as I`m concerned, this jury has no credibility feelings for the accuser and the mother. And Tom Mesereau very succinctly has been chipping away at their credibility and with Jay Leno, and I believe that will be it for the celebrities, except you, Jane. I think this is wrapped up this week.

GRACE: So, Jane Velez-Mitchell, was the jury crying after the Bashir outtake video?

OPRI: Yes or no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the Bashir documentary, which they saw as well, is very emotional. Then you have the outtake documentary. It may have been emotional to some people, but I have to tell you, the most recent tour of Neverland, a 19-minute video that was played by the defense, didn`t seem to provoke very much emotion at all.

That was sort of a theoretical tour if you were a theoretical guest of Neverland. And the jurors seemed to be kind of looking around. They didn`t seem that engaged in it at all.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, did I miss that? Did I miss the answer? Did you see -- Jane Velez-Mitchell, did you see jurors crying after the Michael Jackson video?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I did not, no. And I`ve said from the very beginning that this is the hardest jury to read.

GRACE: OK. So, back to...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are absolutely deadpan.

GRACE: Back to Deb Opri. Who told you the jury was crying? Michael Jackson?

OPRI: No, no, no. Listen, I`m sitting in the middle of the courtroom next to Katherine and Joe Jackson. Jane, you were on the far right. Jim Hammer from FOX was sleeping -- no, he wasn`t sleeping for that witness -- on the far left. There was a young woman crying in the front, a person in the back crying. I saw it.

GRACE: Uh-oh. We`ve got conflict in testimony.

OPRI: So, Jane, I`m sorry. You might have been out of there at that time.

GRACE: Let`s settle this thing.

Anne Bremner, you were in court. Did you see a single juror crying after the Jackson video? Yes, no?

BREMNER: No. I haven`t seen jurors crying in here.

GRACE: OK.

BREMNER: It`s 2-1, Debra. You`re out, buddy.

Quick break, everybody.

To trial tracking. Today, opening statements in the trial of two former American West pilots accused of being drunk while operating a jetliner, an airplane, the plane already pushed back from the gate in Miami, engines running, flight called back. Security smelled alcohol on the pilots` breath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLAH KATZ, PROSECUTOR: What mattered most to them was enjoying their evening in Miami starting the night before and partying on through from 9:30 at night until 5:00 in the morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s a heck of a party. The pilots, Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes, challenged the government`s right to prosecute them, taking it all the way to the U.S. Supremes. But, today, they got their day in court, opening statements kicking off this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY WHITE, ABUSE VICTIM: Going to see him, facing him, going through past trauma, it`s really hard to move on when you`re still having to face the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Tonight, an amazing story. An 8- year-old girl, Ashley White, has spoken out at a parole hearing. She began being molested by her own blood grandfather, Eugene Swenson, starting age 7. She went before that parole board twice. After multiple calls to Swenson`s former defense, no reply.

And, tonight, with us here in the studio, Ashley White. What was it like going before that parole board?

WHITE: Oh, it was so hard, especially after he admitted. I mean, I didn`t think I was going to be able to do it. You know, at first, I had the courage and the strength. And then, when he admitted, I just -- I broke. It just -- all these years, you know, he called me a liar, and then I started believing him, even though I knew it happened. And then he admitted it. So...

GRACE: You know what I find incredible? Number one, your courage.

WHITE: Well, thank you.

GRACE: But a girl as young as you are going before a parole board to try to fight to keep your own grandfather behind bars. Did you get any resistance from family members?

WHITE: No. My family was very supportive. It was just so hard for everybody to go through what we went through. And we all just don`t want it to happen to any other child.

GRACE: What did you hope to gain by going and speaking to the parole board?

WHITE: I wanted an impact on him staying in for what he has -- what he`s done and the crime he`s committed.

GRACE: I took a look at your speech that you gave the parole board, and in it everyone -- there`s your grandfather right there. Megan Kanka, Polly Klaas, Samantha Runnion, Sarah Michelle Lunde, Amanda Brown, Jesse Lunsford, you showed pictures of all of these girls to the parole board. Why?

WHITE: I wanted to talk on those who couldn`t be there to talk for themselves anymore, to show them respect and to show what all sex offenders are capable of, all...

GRACE: If they get out.

WHITE: Yes. They have a cycle that works straight to kidnapping, rape and murder. You know, it starts out with molesting and sodomy and then goes straight to that.

GRACE: You know, it`s amazing that your grandfather admitted to the other two molestations of two other young victims, but he held out on you. He refused to admit it until recently. Why do you think that is?

WHITE: I have no idea. Probably because I was his worst charge. And then he didn`t admit to one other, which was the same age as me. And he probably didn`t admit to him because then, you know, it would look like, oh, so he does like that age. But it didn`t, you know...

GRACE: I wonder how many victims he`s really had.

WHITE: Oh, many. Many are still coming out.

GRACE: Oh.

WHITE: You know, there was eight grandchildren in the case that he got, but only four were charged on.

GRACE: Yes.

Out to Debra Opri, defense attorney.

Debra, I think I know why he finally admitted to this molesting. And it went on for a long time.

OPRI: Yes, it did.

GRACE: It started when she was 7 years old, first grade. You know, the parole board, they don`t want to hear anything from you until you finally admit...

OPRI: Remorse. Remorse.

GRACE: Exactly. And if you don`t admit and show remorse, forget it. That`s why this guy finally admitted it.

(CROSSTALK)

OPRI: Nancy, it`s even more than that.

First of all, there`s a formula for getting out. And he`s not going to get out now. And he won`t get out the next go-around and maybe the next go-around after that. First, he has two years of therapy. This young woman in your studio tonight, how many, seven or eight years? I think it was an insincere apology. I think he was throwing this up, knowing this girl had that information. And, finally, he`s still a danger to society. He`s a danger to society, because there are many people out there who haven`t come forward. He probably did it to a lot more and he`s just itching to get out.

And, as an attorney, I would say, hey, look, buddy, stay in there. You need a little bit more therapy.

GRACE: Well, I definitely agree.

Back to Ashley White. She is taking on the system to keep her own grandfather behind bars.

Power to you, Ashley.

WHITE: Thank you.

OPRI: Yes.

GRACE: And why do you think -- you`re such a young girl, but you`re so articulate. Why do you think that molestation and rape victims somehow feel like it`s their fault? When you were little, did you somehow feel like this was your fault?

WHITE: When I got older, I did, because, when I was little, I was so young, I didn`t understand any of it. You know, I didn`t even know what was going on. When I got a little older, I carried...

GRACE: Was this fondling or full-blown sex?

WHITE: It was fondling. He didn`t rape me.

GRACE: Thank God.

WHITE: yes. I mean, he was to the point where he was going to kidnap me. I don`t know if you read...

GRACE: I did.

WHITE: OK, where he was going to take me. He had his bags packed and everything. And then -- but I don`t know. For a while, I held a little bit of guilt, thinking, was it something I did? Was it -- you know, and I can see where other victims think, well, maybe I shouldn`t have done that or went with him or maybe it`s somehow my fault.

But it`s not. In their mind, they pick out the person. They have it all planned out. You know, you`re just a victim in it. And I want to show people that you`re not the victim. You can be the survivor and fight back and, you know, just don`t let them win at all.

GRACE: Was he at the hearing when you went?

WHITE: He was. The second time I went, I asked for him to leave the room when I testified. I just didn`t -- I saw him the first time. I just didn`t think it was necessary for me to see him a second time.

GRACE: I agree. Did they have questions for you?

WHITE: They didn`t really have any questions. They said that, when I held up the children that were murdered...

GRACE: Yes.

WHITE: That it wasn`t Mr. Swenson`s cases. And I felt that, it`s not his case, but you let him out, it`s going to be his cases, not these exact children, but there will be...

GRACE: That`s beautifully put, beautifully put.

WHITE: Other ones that are going to be exactly his case.

GRACE: With us tonight, a young girl, Ashley White, who is taking on the system, speaking out, to keep her biological grandfather behind bars. He has had multiple child molestation victims. She is one of them. And she does not want him released.

Very quickly to tonight`s all-points bulletin. FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Raul Garcia- Gomez, wanted in connection with the murder of a police officer May 8, 2005, in Denver, Colorado. Gomez, 5`6``, 150 pounds, brown eyes, shaved brown hair. Could be driving an `85 Thunderbird, California plates, armed, dangerous.

If you have any information on Raul Garcia-Gomez, call the FBI, 303- 629-7171.

Local news next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back.

And, remember, live coverage of the Jackson trial tomorrow 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us as we remember an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people.

Take a look at 15-year-old Tabitha Tuders, last seen April 29, 2003, in East Nashville, Tennessee. If you have any information on Tabitha Tuders, please contact the Nashville Police Department, 615-862-8600. Or go to BeyondMissing.com. Please, help us.

Welcome back, everybody.

The story of a young girl fighting back against the system, trying to keep her own grandfather behind bars.

Now, while we were talking in break, this guy got a life sentence, and he`s already come up. He`s only been behind bars a few years. He`s already had two parole hearings. Why? Why has this guy already had two parole hearings? He`s a multiple child molester. And tell the viewers what the parole member said to you after the hearing.

WHITE: Oh, he just was uncompassionate. He said to us that, you know, you need to be prepared, because, someday, this guy will get out. And our family was just, uh, what? In shock. I mean, how can you just -- you know, he did write a letter and he did apologize.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... young girls.

You know, that really beats all, Michelle. You`ve got a girl fighting, one of many child molestation victims. The guy has a life sentence. And he says, well, buckle your seat belt.

What was his name?

WHITE: Mr. Gallegos (ph).

GRACE: Gallegos, on the parole board, saying, well, get ready.

CALLAHAN: Exactly.

GRACE: You know, he`s going to get out.

CALLAHAN: Exactly. What kind of message are we sending people? That this is OK and we`re looking for opportunities to put this guy back on the street, so he can go molest some more children? There have to be more we don`t even know about.

GRACE: You know what? You are telling victims tonight everywhere that they can make it through and survive and triumph. And I`m so thankful for you being here.

WHITE: Oh, thank you so much.

GRACE: You really ran inspiration.

WHITE: Oh, thank you.

I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight, inviting all of us into your home.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN.

I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END