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American Morning

Senate Meltdown Averted; Man Charged with Trying to Sell Bomb to al Qaeda

Aired May 24, 2005 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer, good morning. The battle was intense and the battle is now over. Judge Priscilla Owen could get her vote as early as today. This after a last-minute compromise and two of the lawmakers behind that deal on what happened behind closed doors.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien. In the House today, a vote on another controversial issue, stem cell research. If it passes, the president threatens to veto it using his veto power for the first time.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jack Cafferty. The Supreme Court of the United States has decided convicted murderers cannot be shackled and chained in court during the sentencing phase of their trials. Protection of individual rights or politically correct stupidity? We'll take a look.

HEMMER: Also, it may have happened again. I.D. theft at four of the nation's largest banks. A massive breach of security, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. Also ahead this morning, a CNN "Security Watch." We're going to talk about a 68-year- old man in Texas under arrest for offering to make a bomb for al Qaeda.

HEMMER: A U.S. attorney will join us explaining that story and how something that started as a custody fight overseas actually ended up in terror charges. And what a story this man has, too, so we'll get to that coming up in a matter of moments.

First, let's start this morning with the late-night compromise in the Senate. It comes after an 11th hour deal between a group of 14 moderate senators, seven Democratic, seven Republican, averting a showdown over judicial nominees. And this apparently went down to the wire.

Joe Johns up early on Capitol Hill. Joe, good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

This was a last-minute deal that took a lot of people in the Capitol by surprise. Some in both parties had already started pronouncing the chances of an agreement dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS (voice-over): After days of intense negotiation and soul- searching, a bipartisan group of senators emerged from a final meeting Monday night with a solution to the impasse over judicial nominations.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: The first question that most of the media are going to ask is who won and who lost. The Senate won and the country won.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN, (D) CONNECTICUT: In a Senate that has become increasingly partisan and polarized, the bipartisan center held.

JOHNS: The deal was reached less than a day before a showdown vote to keep Democrats from blocking judicial nominations. It allows votes on all but two of the president's judicial nominees, including three of the most controversial: Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor and Priscilla Owen. No vote is promised for nominees William Myers and Henry Saad.

Under the agreement signed by 14 senators, Democrats can only block future nominees under extraordinary circumstances. In exchange, Republicans would not change Senate rules barring filibusters. Some senior senators had expressed concern that changing the rules would forever damage the Senate's tradition of unlimited debate.

SEN. JOHN WARNER, (R) VIRGINIA: And the one unanswered question that guided me all the way through is, it was unanswered. What would happen to the Senate if the nuclear option were done? And no one was able to answer that to my satisfaction.

JOHNS: One Republican who came under extreme pressure from conservatives not to go for any deals said he expects to take some heat.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: People at home are going be very upset at me for a while.

JOHNS: Some of the greatest pressure at all was on Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who may run for president. He had been warned by conservative groups that nothing less than up and down votes for all judges would be acceptable. Frist asserted he can still force a showdown.

SEN. BILL FRIST, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: But with this agreement, all options remain on the table, including the constitutional option. If it had been necessary to deploy the constitutional option, it would have been successful.

JOHNS: Frist counterpart, Democratic leader Harry Reid, seemed delighted with the deal.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MINORITY LEADER: It's over with and I feel so good. This will be the first night in at least six weeks that I will sleep peacefully.

(END VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS: Senator Reid and some of the Democrats were essentially declaring victory because the filibuster was preserved for future judicial nominations, but on balance, they do allow votes on some judges they oppose -- Bill.

HEMMER: Joe Johns, thanks, from Capitol Hill. More now with Soledad on this.

O'BRIEN: Well, 14 signers may seem like a very small minority in the Senate, but together, they hold enough leverage to stop future filibusters or block any attempt to reassert the so-called nuclear option.

Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska was one of the senators who forged the compromise. He's on Capitol Hill this morning. Senator Nelson, nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.

SEN. BEN NELSON, (D) NEBRASKA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Who do you think was the big winner here?

NELSON: Well, the American people in small states like Nebraska. The American people now going to get an energy bill with high prices at the pump. I think they're all looking forward to that. The Senate will continue to function, there won't be a meltdown. So I think that that's where the real victory is.

O'BRIEN: OK, and outside the American people as the big winner, who do you think politically is the big winner? The Democrats are claiming that they won.

NELSON: Well, this is a victory for bipartisanship, and so those people who are challenging this on some partisan basis are missing the point in many respects and that is that a bipartisan centrist group with some folks who are not ordinarily centrist came together to preserve the right of the filibuster. But also, I think this is the most important point -- to effect up and down votes on almost all judges. Only those that would be subject to extraordinary circumstances are unlikely to get a vote.

O'BRIEN: Do you think the president -- excuse me, sir -- do you think the president won to a large degree? His three -- three of his nominees who many consider -- many Democrats consider radical and outside the mainstream will now likely be nominated. Did he win?

NELSON: Well, I think he wins in that regard, but the American people also win by preserving the right of the minority to preserve a public, a republic. Senator Bird said it so eloquently last night when he said, in effect, we saved the republic the way it is and that is that you can't have a runaway simple majority and you have to have weighted majority if the minority pushes for it.

O'BRIEN: Well, it saved the republic, though, but for how long? I mean, the Democrats can still filibuster, the Republicans can always go for the nuclear option, should they decide to do so. So, isn't the resolution, to a large degree, really not a long-term resolution? NELSON: Well, it's a resolution where we have to depend on one another and trust one another. That's a commodity that hasn't always been existent here in the Senate. So quite honestly, I think we are going to be able to work together and that's what's important. There are some side benefits, as well. The fact that we were able to bring such a diverse group together and achieve this compromise gives me a lot of hope that we'll be able to do something similar in the future on very important issues. So I think everybody benefited from the fact that we came together and we avoided any kind of a meltdown.

O'BRIEN: The Democrats have agreed to block or filibuster only in extraordinary circumstances. I mean, that sounds like it's completely open to individual interpretation.

NELSON: As it should be. Because I'm not going to give my vote to anyone or any group. I'm going to keep the right, under my discretion and my judgment, to vote as I choose. And that's understood. But this has to be about mutual trust and respect and comity. It's been about comedy in the past in many ways, but this is about comity. It's about being able to get together and get things done. That's what I think was preserved, as well as the republic last night.

O'BRIEN: There is a new "USA Today"/CNN/Gallup poll that was released on Monday and more than half of the people who responded said that they felt that the legislators were acting like spoiled children on the judicial nominee matter. What do you think the long-term impact of the American people on the jobs that you have to do every day is?

NELSON: Well, you know, I think that our approval rating was plummeting because they couldn't understand why we couldn't get along, why we couldn't achieve some sort of a compromise and move forward. And they were right. That's why I think it was imperative that we brought together the group that we did last night. And I want it commend my colleagues. I was proud to stand there with them, because I think we stood for America last night, not for partisan politics.

O'BRIEN: Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska joining us this morning from Capitol Hill. Nice to see you, senator, thank you.

NELSON: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to speak with senators John McCain and Ted Kennedy about the filibuster deal.

Late word from the White House is that the administration is pleased that some of the nominees will get an up or down vote, but it insists that it will keep working for a vote on all its judicial nominees.

The president faces another challenge today in a House vote on stem cell research. The bill would loosen restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. Stem cells could hold the promise of curing many diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, but the process involves the destruction of a human embryo, something President Bush says he is firmly opposed to. He says he's going to veto the bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... strong supporter of adult stem cell research, of course. But I made it very clear to the Congress that the use of federal money, taxpayers' money, to promote science which destroys life in order to save life, is -- I'm against that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: House vote counters believe they have enough votes to pass the bill. They don't know if they have enough, though, to override a veto. Another bill up for a vote today involves stem cells from umbilical cords, and the White House supports that.

The president will have a statement today at 2:10 p.m. in the Rose Garden and CNN's going to bring that to you live when it happens.

HEMMER: Just about ten minutes past the hour now.

To a CNN "Security Watch" this morning. A 68-year-old man from Pennsylvania is accused of trying to sell a bomb to terrorists. His name is Ron Grecula. He was arrested Friday in Houston. Authorities say he offered to build and sell a bomb to an undercover FBI agent that he thought was an operative for al Qaeda. What's really behind this?

Michael Shelby is the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Texas. He's with me live now in Houston. Mr. Shelby, good morning to you.

MICHAEL SHELBY, U.S. ATTY, SO. DIST. OF TEXAS: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Want to try and clear up a few things here. Is there evidence that Ron Grecula actually could build a bomb?

SHELBY: Well, we certainly know that he expressed his intent to do that and he had the right nomenclature to -- he said the right things to the right -- in the right way. And those things were troubling to the agents who first heard them and it prompted the additional sting operation. And I guess the point, Bill, is that after 9/11, we're really not in a place where we can let someone like that prove whether or not they can build a balm. Our job is to stop them from doing it in the first place.

HEMMER: So it was his words that concerned you, not so much his actions?

SHELBY: Well, no, his words and his actions. He brought with him a great deal of material that described the production and the design of a high energy explosive that he claimed that could actually take out a building in a 300 -- or 3,000-foot radius. So those are allegations that we take very seriously. HEMMER: So apparently he told one of your sources that he was a mechanical engineer of some type, that he could buy all these bomb components at a welding store. Did you prove that to be that case or was this just him talking?

SHELBY: Well, we certainly -- he certainly took the undercover officer to a welding supply shop and pointed out the materials that he said he could assemble in a unique way to build a particular kind of high-energy explosive device. And he described that as a light- activated fusion-type weapon based around hydrogen chlorine. And again, he certainly talked the talk. Now whether he could actually construct a device like that, I do not know. But I'm not in the position now and nor is anyone in the Department of Justice to wait and find out whether he's telling the truth.

HEMMER: This guy has been jumping through some hoops lately, too. He had a custody battle with two of his kids, charged with kidnapping. He wound up in a jail in Malta. Does your evidence suggest that he was trying to aid terrorists who want to do harm to the United States or was he looking for money?

SHELBY: Well, there is no question that he has a deep, deep dislike and hatred for the United States. And all through the transcripts that were released with the complaint filed yesterday, he expressed that hatred in no uncertain terms. Now, it appears that that may have been motivated as a result of the situation with his children and his problems that he had in Pennsylvania. But whatever his motivation was, he had the intent to build a weapon and give that weapon to al Qaeda so that they could use it against Americans. He was told that would be the target and he indicated he just flat didn't care.

HEMMER: One more point here. Apparently, he intercepted a few electronic messages just in the past few weeks alone. Was that the evidence you used against him?

SHELBY: Well, we -- the evidence used against him was developed from the individual he shared a cell with in Malta and that individual later became a confidential informant for the FBI and alerted them to the fact that there was a man out there that was seeking to find buyers for high explosive weapons. And so we started down that trail. But this was another good example of the work of the Joint Terrorism Task Force of the FBI and the Houston Police Department working together to stop another 9/11 from happening before it happens.

HEMMER: Let me -- wow, that's going pretty far there. Are you saying today that you helped keep the American people safe or are you saying that this guy was a bag of air?

SHELBY: Well, we don't know what his final abilities would have been, but we know what his expressed intent was. And he certainly took actions to further that, by traveling to Houston, by coming with the equipment that he had and with the materials that he had, and then taking the undercover officers over to the -- a welding shop to show exactly what materials he would need to construct a bomb. That evidence is some level of involvement, more than just talk. HEMMER: U.S. attorney Michael Shelby, my guest in Houston, Texas. Thanks for your time, sir.

SHELBY: Thank you, Bill.

HEMMER: And stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news of your security -- Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Two letters released by the government shedding new light on al Qaeda's efforts to obtain anthrax. How did that terrorist group get? and how close did they get? We'll examine that in a moment here.

O'BRIEN: Also, outrage from the family of a football star who became fallen hero. Pat Tillman's parents blast the Army over the investigation into his death.

HEMMER: Also, new details on what could be the largest breach of bank security in U.S. history. Get this, four major banks are involved. Details in a moment after the break on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: New details now on a huge security breach that we told you about on Monday. We're now told that the total number of bank accounts affected could be more than a million. Authorities also say it appears to be an inside job. Here's CNN's Chris Huntington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. Treasury is calling it the biggest breach of bank security in U.S. history. Hackensack, New Jersey Police cracked the case following up on a residential burglary. They say this man, Orazin "Ozzy" Lembo, masterminded a scheme to illegally sell personal information and bank account numbers of at least 676,000 people to a collection agency. Authorities say Lembo had help, highly placed insiders at Bank of America, Wachovia, PNC Financial, Commerce Bank and the New Jersey Department of Labor.

Hackensack police Chief Ken Zisa says Lembo called his operation DRL Associates, and ran it from his residence at this condominium complex. Siza says authorities are still learning about Lembo's operation and his intentions.

CHIEF KEN ZISA, HACKENSACK POLICE: Accounts were being looked at, and certainly that is a great cause for concern, as well as being unlawful. But we also have a concern as to how that information would ultimately be used. Certainly, identity theft is of great concern as it relates to this case.

HUNTINGTON: According to Zisa, the scam worked like this, Lembo would get names and Social Security Numbers from a collection agency who wanted to find out bank account information. Lembo's associates such as this Commerce Bank manager and his assistant manager, would cross-check the names against bank account information. They are among 10 people arrested in the operation. Lembo would pay the operatives $10 per match, but would sell the information back to the collection agency for as much as $150.

Authorities believe Lembo operated the scam for nearly four years and may have made as much as $4 million. Commerce Bank could not be reached for comment, Deiva (ph), Wachovia, and PNC have notified customers and are cooperating with authorities.

(on camera): Law enforcement authorities tell CNN they have not found any evidence of identity theft. We tried to reach Mr. Lembo and his attorney, but could not. He is charged with nine crimes, including racketeering. If convicted on all counts, he faces a cumulative total of 130 years in prison and fines of more than $1 million.

Chris Huntington, CNN, Hackensack, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Authorities say the next phase in the investigation, examining the firms that bought the stolen data -- Bill.

HEMMER: In a moment here, a special delivery nobody wants. Hundreds of workers get their pink slips by way of courier. Andy's "Minding Your Business." He has that right after a break here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. Northwest Airlines' latest cost-cutting measure targets a specific group of workers and you are fired with a 37 cent stamp on it. Andy explains, "Minding Your Business." What's happening?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Good morning to you. A couple difficult stories in the aviation industry this morning. Northwest Airlines, indeed, wants to fire over 2,000 of its mechanics. That's nearly half of that job category. They need to save $176 million, they're saying. The other 2,300, they're proposing, would have their pay cut by 26 percent. They're seeking to eliminate 800 job categories in this group.

Now what's going on here is they want to outsource maintenance of their aircraft. And a bunch of other airline companies have done this, sending their planes to Canada, El Salvador and even Hong Kong to get them worked on.

Also in the aviation business as well, Boeing is selling its Wichita manufacturing facility to a Canadian company. Workers there have to reapply for their jobs. A lot of them have lost their jobs, apparently, receiving pink slips by DHL courier.

HEMMER: Ooh! SERWER: That's cold and impersonal, said one 33-year veteran at this facility. He called it like getting divorce papers in the mail with no word from the wife. And it's interesting, this is a guy here who'd worked there for a long time and a lot of the other people, obviously, senior positions. So a sad situation there, as well.

HEMMER: Check that thing for return to sender, huh?

SERWER: Indeed.

HEMMER: Knocking on the door. Thanks, Andy.

O'BRIEN: We're going to the courtroom for the "Question of the Day." Good morning.

CAFFERTY: Good morning. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled Monday that convicted murderers cannot be shackled and chained in court during the sentencing phase of their trials. The court said visible restraints violate the right to due process and could adversely affect the jury's perception of the defendant. The jury has already convicted this person of murder. The two dissenting justices, Clarence Thomas and Anthony Scalia, pointed to a, quote, "dire security situation" faced by this nation's courts.

Two months ago, you'll recall Brian Nichols, who was not a convicted murderer but nevertheless overpowered a guard in Fulton County, Georgia, and shot and killed a judge and a deputy and some other people, and all because he was unrestrained. Nichols was wearing no restraints at all.

The question is this: Should convicted murderers be shackled when appearing in court for sentencing?

HEMMER: That Nichols case, first thing that comes to mind when you think about that, back in March in Atlanta.

Thank you, Jack.

In a moment here, how close did al Qaeda come to obtaining a deadly strain of anthrax? Two letters just put out by the government offering some answers this morning, and we'll get to that.

And a CNN "Security Watch" ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the Senate showdown over filibusters is over and one of the judges at the center of the fight could be approved today. We'll take a look at the controversy surrounding her nomination ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired May 24, 2005 - 07:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer, good morning. The battle was intense and the battle is now over. Judge Priscilla Owen could get her vote as early as today. This after a last-minute compromise and two of the lawmakers behind that deal on what happened behind closed doors.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien. In the House today, a vote on another controversial issue, stem cell research. If it passes, the president threatens to veto it using his veto power for the first time.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jack Cafferty. The Supreme Court of the United States has decided convicted murderers cannot be shackled and chained in court during the sentencing phase of their trials. Protection of individual rights or politically correct stupidity? We'll take a look.

HEMMER: Also, it may have happened again. I.D. theft at four of the nation's largest banks. A massive breach of security, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. Also ahead this morning, a CNN "Security Watch." We're going to talk about a 68-year- old man in Texas under arrest for offering to make a bomb for al Qaeda.

HEMMER: A U.S. attorney will join us explaining that story and how something that started as a custody fight overseas actually ended up in terror charges. And what a story this man has, too, so we'll get to that coming up in a matter of moments.

First, let's start this morning with the late-night compromise in the Senate. It comes after an 11th hour deal between a group of 14 moderate senators, seven Democratic, seven Republican, averting a showdown over judicial nominees. And this apparently went down to the wire.

Joe Johns up early on Capitol Hill. Joe, good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

This was a last-minute deal that took a lot of people in the Capitol by surprise. Some in both parties had already started pronouncing the chances of an agreement dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS (voice-over): After days of intense negotiation and soul- searching, a bipartisan group of senators emerged from a final meeting Monday night with a solution to the impasse over judicial nominations.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: The first question that most of the media are going to ask is who won and who lost. The Senate won and the country won.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN, (D) CONNECTICUT: In a Senate that has become increasingly partisan and polarized, the bipartisan center held.

JOHNS: The deal was reached less than a day before a showdown vote to keep Democrats from blocking judicial nominations. It allows votes on all but two of the president's judicial nominees, including three of the most controversial: Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor and Priscilla Owen. No vote is promised for nominees William Myers and Henry Saad.

Under the agreement signed by 14 senators, Democrats can only block future nominees under extraordinary circumstances. In exchange, Republicans would not change Senate rules barring filibusters. Some senior senators had expressed concern that changing the rules would forever damage the Senate's tradition of unlimited debate.

SEN. JOHN WARNER, (R) VIRGINIA: And the one unanswered question that guided me all the way through is, it was unanswered. What would happen to the Senate if the nuclear option were done? And no one was able to answer that to my satisfaction.

JOHNS: One Republican who came under extreme pressure from conservatives not to go for any deals said he expects to take some heat.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: People at home are going be very upset at me for a while.

JOHNS: Some of the greatest pressure at all was on Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who may run for president. He had been warned by conservative groups that nothing less than up and down votes for all judges would be acceptable. Frist asserted he can still force a showdown.

SEN. BILL FRIST, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: But with this agreement, all options remain on the table, including the constitutional option. If it had been necessary to deploy the constitutional option, it would have been successful.

JOHNS: Frist counterpart, Democratic leader Harry Reid, seemed delighted with the deal.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MINORITY LEADER: It's over with and I feel so good. This will be the first night in at least six weeks that I will sleep peacefully.

(END VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS: Senator Reid and some of the Democrats were essentially declaring victory because the filibuster was preserved for future judicial nominations, but on balance, they do allow votes on some judges they oppose -- Bill.

HEMMER: Joe Johns, thanks, from Capitol Hill. More now with Soledad on this.

O'BRIEN: Well, 14 signers may seem like a very small minority in the Senate, but together, they hold enough leverage to stop future filibusters or block any attempt to reassert the so-called nuclear option.

Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska was one of the senators who forged the compromise. He's on Capitol Hill this morning. Senator Nelson, nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.

SEN. BEN NELSON, (D) NEBRASKA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Who do you think was the big winner here?

NELSON: Well, the American people in small states like Nebraska. The American people now going to get an energy bill with high prices at the pump. I think they're all looking forward to that. The Senate will continue to function, there won't be a meltdown. So I think that that's where the real victory is.

O'BRIEN: OK, and outside the American people as the big winner, who do you think politically is the big winner? The Democrats are claiming that they won.

NELSON: Well, this is a victory for bipartisanship, and so those people who are challenging this on some partisan basis are missing the point in many respects and that is that a bipartisan centrist group with some folks who are not ordinarily centrist came together to preserve the right of the filibuster. But also, I think this is the most important point -- to effect up and down votes on almost all judges. Only those that would be subject to extraordinary circumstances are unlikely to get a vote.

O'BRIEN: Do you think the president -- excuse me, sir -- do you think the president won to a large degree? His three -- three of his nominees who many consider -- many Democrats consider radical and outside the mainstream will now likely be nominated. Did he win?

NELSON: Well, I think he wins in that regard, but the American people also win by preserving the right of the minority to preserve a public, a republic. Senator Bird said it so eloquently last night when he said, in effect, we saved the republic the way it is and that is that you can't have a runaway simple majority and you have to have weighted majority if the minority pushes for it.

O'BRIEN: Well, it saved the republic, though, but for how long? I mean, the Democrats can still filibuster, the Republicans can always go for the nuclear option, should they decide to do so. So, isn't the resolution, to a large degree, really not a long-term resolution? NELSON: Well, it's a resolution where we have to depend on one another and trust one another. That's a commodity that hasn't always been existent here in the Senate. So quite honestly, I think we are going to be able to work together and that's what's important. There are some side benefits, as well. The fact that we were able to bring such a diverse group together and achieve this compromise gives me a lot of hope that we'll be able to do something similar in the future on very important issues. So I think everybody benefited from the fact that we came together and we avoided any kind of a meltdown.

O'BRIEN: The Democrats have agreed to block or filibuster only in extraordinary circumstances. I mean, that sounds like it's completely open to individual interpretation.

NELSON: As it should be. Because I'm not going to give my vote to anyone or any group. I'm going to keep the right, under my discretion and my judgment, to vote as I choose. And that's understood. But this has to be about mutual trust and respect and comity. It's been about comedy in the past in many ways, but this is about comity. It's about being able to get together and get things done. That's what I think was preserved, as well as the republic last night.

O'BRIEN: There is a new "USA Today"/CNN/Gallup poll that was released on Monday and more than half of the people who responded said that they felt that the legislators were acting like spoiled children on the judicial nominee matter. What do you think the long-term impact of the American people on the jobs that you have to do every day is?

NELSON: Well, you know, I think that our approval rating was plummeting because they couldn't understand why we couldn't get along, why we couldn't achieve some sort of a compromise and move forward. And they were right. That's why I think it was imperative that we brought together the group that we did last night. And I want it commend my colleagues. I was proud to stand there with them, because I think we stood for America last night, not for partisan politics.

O'BRIEN: Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska joining us this morning from Capitol Hill. Nice to see you, senator, thank you.

NELSON: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to speak with senators John McCain and Ted Kennedy about the filibuster deal.

Late word from the White House is that the administration is pleased that some of the nominees will get an up or down vote, but it insists that it will keep working for a vote on all its judicial nominees.

The president faces another challenge today in a House vote on stem cell research. The bill would loosen restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. Stem cells could hold the promise of curing many diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, but the process involves the destruction of a human embryo, something President Bush says he is firmly opposed to. He says he's going to veto the bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... strong supporter of adult stem cell research, of course. But I made it very clear to the Congress that the use of federal money, taxpayers' money, to promote science which destroys life in order to save life, is -- I'm against that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: House vote counters believe they have enough votes to pass the bill. They don't know if they have enough, though, to override a veto. Another bill up for a vote today involves stem cells from umbilical cords, and the White House supports that.

The president will have a statement today at 2:10 p.m. in the Rose Garden and CNN's going to bring that to you live when it happens.

HEMMER: Just about ten minutes past the hour now.

To a CNN "Security Watch" this morning. A 68-year-old man from Pennsylvania is accused of trying to sell a bomb to terrorists. His name is Ron Grecula. He was arrested Friday in Houston. Authorities say he offered to build and sell a bomb to an undercover FBI agent that he thought was an operative for al Qaeda. What's really behind this?

Michael Shelby is the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Texas. He's with me live now in Houston. Mr. Shelby, good morning to you.

MICHAEL SHELBY, U.S. ATTY, SO. DIST. OF TEXAS: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Want to try and clear up a few things here. Is there evidence that Ron Grecula actually could build a bomb?

SHELBY: Well, we certainly know that he expressed his intent to do that and he had the right nomenclature to -- he said the right things to the right -- in the right way. And those things were troubling to the agents who first heard them and it prompted the additional sting operation. And I guess the point, Bill, is that after 9/11, we're really not in a place where we can let someone like that prove whether or not they can build a balm. Our job is to stop them from doing it in the first place.

HEMMER: So it was his words that concerned you, not so much his actions?

SHELBY: Well, no, his words and his actions. He brought with him a great deal of material that described the production and the design of a high energy explosive that he claimed that could actually take out a building in a 300 -- or 3,000-foot radius. So those are allegations that we take very seriously. HEMMER: So apparently he told one of your sources that he was a mechanical engineer of some type, that he could buy all these bomb components at a welding store. Did you prove that to be that case or was this just him talking?

SHELBY: Well, we certainly -- he certainly took the undercover officer to a welding supply shop and pointed out the materials that he said he could assemble in a unique way to build a particular kind of high-energy explosive device. And he described that as a light- activated fusion-type weapon based around hydrogen chlorine. And again, he certainly talked the talk. Now whether he could actually construct a device like that, I do not know. But I'm not in the position now and nor is anyone in the Department of Justice to wait and find out whether he's telling the truth.

HEMMER: This guy has been jumping through some hoops lately, too. He had a custody battle with two of his kids, charged with kidnapping. He wound up in a jail in Malta. Does your evidence suggest that he was trying to aid terrorists who want to do harm to the United States or was he looking for money?

SHELBY: Well, there is no question that he has a deep, deep dislike and hatred for the United States. And all through the transcripts that were released with the complaint filed yesterday, he expressed that hatred in no uncertain terms. Now, it appears that that may have been motivated as a result of the situation with his children and his problems that he had in Pennsylvania. But whatever his motivation was, he had the intent to build a weapon and give that weapon to al Qaeda so that they could use it against Americans. He was told that would be the target and he indicated he just flat didn't care.

HEMMER: One more point here. Apparently, he intercepted a few electronic messages just in the past few weeks alone. Was that the evidence you used against him?

SHELBY: Well, we -- the evidence used against him was developed from the individual he shared a cell with in Malta and that individual later became a confidential informant for the FBI and alerted them to the fact that there was a man out there that was seeking to find buyers for high explosive weapons. And so we started down that trail. But this was another good example of the work of the Joint Terrorism Task Force of the FBI and the Houston Police Department working together to stop another 9/11 from happening before it happens.

HEMMER: Let me -- wow, that's going pretty far there. Are you saying today that you helped keep the American people safe or are you saying that this guy was a bag of air?

SHELBY: Well, we don't know what his final abilities would have been, but we know what his expressed intent was. And he certainly took actions to further that, by traveling to Houston, by coming with the equipment that he had and with the materials that he had, and then taking the undercover officers over to the -- a welding shop to show exactly what materials he would need to construct a bomb. That evidence is some level of involvement, more than just talk. HEMMER: U.S. attorney Michael Shelby, my guest in Houston, Texas. Thanks for your time, sir.

SHELBY: Thank you, Bill.

HEMMER: And stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news of your security -- Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Two letters released by the government shedding new light on al Qaeda's efforts to obtain anthrax. How did that terrorist group get? and how close did they get? We'll examine that in a moment here.

O'BRIEN: Also, outrage from the family of a football star who became fallen hero. Pat Tillman's parents blast the Army over the investigation into his death.

HEMMER: Also, new details on what could be the largest breach of bank security in U.S. history. Get this, four major banks are involved. Details in a moment after the break on AMERICAN MORNING.

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O'BRIEN: New details now on a huge security breach that we told you about on Monday. We're now told that the total number of bank accounts affected could be more than a million. Authorities also say it appears to be an inside job. Here's CNN's Chris Huntington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. Treasury is calling it the biggest breach of bank security in U.S. history. Hackensack, New Jersey Police cracked the case following up on a residential burglary. They say this man, Orazin "Ozzy" Lembo, masterminded a scheme to illegally sell personal information and bank account numbers of at least 676,000 people to a collection agency. Authorities say Lembo had help, highly placed insiders at Bank of America, Wachovia, PNC Financial, Commerce Bank and the New Jersey Department of Labor.

Hackensack police Chief Ken Zisa says Lembo called his operation DRL Associates, and ran it from his residence at this condominium complex. Siza says authorities are still learning about Lembo's operation and his intentions.

CHIEF KEN ZISA, HACKENSACK POLICE: Accounts were being looked at, and certainly that is a great cause for concern, as well as being unlawful. But we also have a concern as to how that information would ultimately be used. Certainly, identity theft is of great concern as it relates to this case.

HUNTINGTON: According to Zisa, the scam worked like this, Lembo would get names and Social Security Numbers from a collection agency who wanted to find out bank account information. Lembo's associates such as this Commerce Bank manager and his assistant manager, would cross-check the names against bank account information. They are among 10 people arrested in the operation. Lembo would pay the operatives $10 per match, but would sell the information back to the collection agency for as much as $150.

Authorities believe Lembo operated the scam for nearly four years and may have made as much as $4 million. Commerce Bank could not be reached for comment, Deiva (ph), Wachovia, and PNC have notified customers and are cooperating with authorities.

(on camera): Law enforcement authorities tell CNN they have not found any evidence of identity theft. We tried to reach Mr. Lembo and his attorney, but could not. He is charged with nine crimes, including racketeering. If convicted on all counts, he faces a cumulative total of 130 years in prison and fines of more than $1 million.

Chris Huntington, CNN, Hackensack, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Authorities say the next phase in the investigation, examining the firms that bought the stolen data -- Bill.

HEMMER: In a moment here, a special delivery nobody wants. Hundreds of workers get their pink slips by way of courier. Andy's "Minding Your Business." He has that right after a break here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. Northwest Airlines' latest cost-cutting measure targets a specific group of workers and you are fired with a 37 cent stamp on it. Andy explains, "Minding Your Business." What's happening?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE": Good morning to you. A couple difficult stories in the aviation industry this morning. Northwest Airlines, indeed, wants to fire over 2,000 of its mechanics. That's nearly half of that job category. They need to save $176 million, they're saying. The other 2,300, they're proposing, would have their pay cut by 26 percent. They're seeking to eliminate 800 job categories in this group.

Now what's going on here is they want to outsource maintenance of their aircraft. And a bunch of other airline companies have done this, sending their planes to Canada, El Salvador and even Hong Kong to get them worked on.

Also in the aviation business as well, Boeing is selling its Wichita manufacturing facility to a Canadian company. Workers there have to reapply for their jobs. A lot of them have lost their jobs, apparently, receiving pink slips by DHL courier.

HEMMER: Ooh! SERWER: That's cold and impersonal, said one 33-year veteran at this facility. He called it like getting divorce papers in the mail with no word from the wife. And it's interesting, this is a guy here who'd worked there for a long time and a lot of the other people, obviously, senior positions. So a sad situation there, as well.

HEMMER: Check that thing for return to sender, huh?

SERWER: Indeed.

HEMMER: Knocking on the door. Thanks, Andy.

O'BRIEN: We're going to the courtroom for the "Question of the Day." Good morning.

CAFFERTY: Good morning. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled Monday that convicted murderers cannot be shackled and chained in court during the sentencing phase of their trials. The court said visible restraints violate the right to due process and could adversely affect the jury's perception of the defendant. The jury has already convicted this person of murder. The two dissenting justices, Clarence Thomas and Anthony Scalia, pointed to a, quote, "dire security situation" faced by this nation's courts.

Two months ago, you'll recall Brian Nichols, who was not a convicted murderer but nevertheless overpowered a guard in Fulton County, Georgia, and shot and killed a judge and a deputy and some other people, and all because he was unrestrained. Nichols was wearing no restraints at all.

The question is this: Should convicted murderers be shackled when appearing in court for sentencing?

HEMMER: That Nichols case, first thing that comes to mind when you think about that, back in March in Atlanta.

Thank you, Jack.

In a moment here, how close did al Qaeda come to obtaining a deadly strain of anthrax? Two letters just put out by the government offering some answers this morning, and we'll get to that.

And a CNN "Security Watch" ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the Senate showdown over filibusters is over and one of the judges at the center of the fight could be approved today. We'll take a look at the controversy surrounding her nomination ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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