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American Morning
Lionel Tate's Troubles; Last Defense Witness in Michael Jackson Trial
Aired May 25, 2005 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. It is exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Coming up, we're going to talk about the latest round of legal problems for Lionel Tate. Remember him? He was sentenced to life in prison at age 14, later freed. Well, he is back in court today on armed robbery charges.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, he is on probation. It could really cost him in time, we're told. We'll talk to his lawyer in a moment about what's happening there in Florida.
O'BRIEN: Before we get to that, though, let's get another check of the headlines this morning with Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Good morning. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News."
U.S. troops in Iraq launching a new offensive this morning aimed at rooting out insurgents. Military sources say some 1,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops have encircled Haditha. That's about 40 miles northwest of Baghdad. The assault, known as New Market, is the second major operation in the region in less than a month. Two Marines were reportedly injured in initial fighting.
U.S. officials are downplaying reports that terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been wounded. The message appears on Islamic Web sites. It claims Zarqawi suffered an heroic wound and asks his followers to pray for him. Pentagon officials tell CNN they are not able to verify the report, and similar rumors in the past have never been confirmed.
A convicted killer who had wanted to donate part of his liver to his ailing sister has been executed. Gregory Johnson died by lethal injection early this morning at the Indiana state prison. The governor rejected Johnson's request for a reprieve, saying medical experts declared his liver was not a good match for his sister.
And a possible new link between walking and surviving breast cancer. A new study out today suggests breast cancer patients who walk just three hours a week -- that's just three hours a week -- could significantly cut the risk of dying from the disease. The findings come from a long-term analysis some of 3,000 women with breast cancer. Details appear in today's "Journal of the American Medical Association." So that's not much walking, and it could save your life -- Bill.
HEMMER: Carol, thanks.
Thirty-two minutes past the hour now.
Lionel Tate goes before a judge today on a new charge, armed robbery. Tate made headlines six years ago in a historic murder case. Now, the young troubled man from Florida is facing the possibility of another prison term.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER (voice over): Lionel Tate, now 18 and on probation, has been charged with pulling a gun on a pizza delivery man in Pembroke Park, Florida. You may remember Tate. He was just 12 when charged in the beating death of 6-year-old Tiffany Eunick. That was in 1999.
At age 14, Tate became the youngest person in the U.S. to be sentenced to life in prison.
After serving three years, his conviction was overturned on appeal, and a plea bargain placed him under house arrest. Tate first violated that probation this past September, when he was found outside his home with a knife.
Now, he's back behind bars, accused of armed robbery and again facing the possibility of a long stretch in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Jim Lewis is the attorney for Lionel Tate. He's my guest now from Ft. Lauderdale.
Thank you for your time, sir. Good morning to you there.
JIM LEWIS, LIONEL TATE'S ATTORNEY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Police are saying it's a pretty airtight case. How is your client responding to this latest event?
LEWIS: Absolutely not. I had met with Lionel yesterday. He told me he did not do this. From what I've been able to find out about the facts of this case, it seems to me that it's very weak in terms of the case against him.
HEMMER: How will he prove he wasn't involved then?
LEWIS: Well, he was there, and he ate some pizza. What happened is he showed up at a friend's house, and apparently there had been some type of a fracas or a robbery occurred. And he was there after the fact.
His clothing description is totally different than what the pizza man gives. Supposedly, the assailant had a bandana covering his face. I think when all of the facts come out here -- and a lot of people are rushing to judgments -- they're going to find out that Lionel had nothing to do with this.
HEMMER: Was there a gun there, Mr. Lewis?
LEWIS: There has been no gun found. As far as we know, there was no gun, even though the pizza man did report that he saw a gun.
HEMMER: All right. This is not the first time he's been in trouble with the law since being released and on probation. There are some legal experts in your state of Florida who now believe that this could be really tough news for Tate, going from probation to the possibility of life behind bars if this charge is proven against him. Do you fear that?
LEWIS: Oh, no question about it. If he did this, then he deserves 20 or 30 years in prison. But I don't believe that he did. And I think when all of the facts come out, nobody is going to believe that he did this.
HEMMER: Does he fear this, the possibility of life behind bars?
LEWIS: Of course. Who wouldn't? This is still an 18-year-old, a very young man, who is doing quite well, who graduated from school, was going to cooking school, is putting his life back together. And it's just a real shame now that this has come up. But, quite frankly, I think too many people are rushing to judgment. And I think when all of the facts are in, we're going to find out he didn't do this.
HEMMER: A forensic psychologist by the name of Michael Brannon (ph), had examined Lionel Tate, appointed by the judge. He had this to say: "We had a real chance. The right thing would have been to get this young man some help." Did the system fail Lionel Tate at this point, or is Lionel Tate just doing himself more damage?
LEWIS: No, I don't think that -- again, I think we're rushing to judgment that Lionel Tate has done this. You know, spending three years in a juvenile prison, I don't know that it does anybody a lot of good. However, while he was in there he got very intensive psychological counseling, testing. And when he got out, there were a number of people that tried to help this young man get on with his life. And by most accounts, he was doing pretty well.
HEMMER: You're saying the state was there for him, aren't you?
LEWIS: Well, services were provided. And I think Lionel took advantage of many of those services. He didn't have, you know, all of the opportunities that many youths have as they were growing up. But, you know, we're just all hoping and praying that these allegations are not true, and this young man can get on with his life.
HEMMER: We'll watch it from here. Jim Lewis, thanks. The attorney for Lionel Tate there in Ft. Lauderdale.
LEWIS: Thank you. HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: In the Michael Jackson trial, the defense is expected to rest today after calling its final witness. And that final witness is not Michael Jackson.
Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Comedian Chris Tucker, the last defense witness, is expected to finish his testimony today. Tucker was close to the accuser and his family during the time of the accusations against Michael Jackson.
During about 20 minutes of testimony, Tucker said he bought the accuser and his family clothes and gave them over $1,500 in cash. Tucker is expected to say he did not see any evidence of a conspiracy to keep the accuser and his family at Neverland ranch.
Some legal analysts say the defense decision to end its case with Tucker and not put Jackson himself on the stand was the right move.
CRAIG SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: Frankly, that's not surprising to me. Not calling Michael Jackson as a witness is the biggest no- brainer in the history of mankind.
ROWLANDS: Yesterday, comedian Jay Leno, who has been making fun of Jackson for months, took the stand.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": It was really odd walking into that courtroom today, because I realized it was the first time I'd seen Michael since I was 12.
ROWLANDS: Leno said he received a number of phone messages from Jackson's accuser that -- quote -- "seemed a little odd." Leno also said the messages were full of praise for the comedian and seemed -- quote -- "scripted." And later, he said through a mutual acquaintance, he had the calls stopped.
But Leno never said the boy or his family asked for money, which seems to contradict what the defense promised in its opening statements when it said that Leno was the victim of an attempted shakedown by the accuser and his family.
TRENT COPELAND, LEGAL ANALYST: He should have been one of these knock-your-socks-off final flourishing witnesses. He was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won't you testify, Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
ROWLANDS: With his lawyer at his side, Michael Jackson had no comment as to why he isn't taking the stand.
(on camera): The defense is expected to rest when Tucker finishes his testimony. Prosecutors told the judge they do plan to put on a short rebuttal case, meaning by sometime next week jurors could start deliberating Michael Jackson's fate.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to talk to criminal defense attorney Anne Bremner, who was in the courtroom for Leno's testimony.
HEMMER: It's about 22 minutes now before the hour.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: I admit it. This next one sounds like a little bit like a fish story. Here it is. Tim Pruitt, fishing in the Mississippi River on Sunday, caught a blue catfish. Look at this thing. It is roughly the size of a sixth grader. Now, if you don't know what a sixth grader's size is, it's about 124 pounds, 58 inches long, 44 inches around. Pruitt says he struggled with the fish for more than half-an-hour. And, in fact, at one point, the big old catfish was dragging his boat. Finally, he was able to reel it in. Well, guess what? The fish has been kept alive. It's going to be on display in Kansas City, Kansas.
HEMMER: I bet that's one ticked off fish, you know. How long has he been out there plying the waters of the Mississippi?
O'BRIEN: Alive and angry.
HEMMER: Yes, very angry, too.
O'BRIEN: We've got some business news ahead this morning. A dark cloud that's been hanging over the Magic Kingdom for nine years now finally clears. Andy has got a little good news for Disney as he minds your business ahead.
HEMMER: Also, who are you voting for? Carrie or Bo, taking the stage for the final showdown last night? Who deserves to be the next "American Idol?" Bo deserves it, but you know Carrie is going to win. "90-Second Pop" is still ahead this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Some business news to tell you about now. A conservative group is happy with Mickey Mouse and company once again. And oil prices could spell bad news for stocks.
Andy is "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad. We've got a lot of stuff going on. Let's talk about the markets first of all. Yesterday, a mixed picture for stocks and for investors. The Dow down a bit. The S&P and Nasdaq up. You can see here, the culprit on the Dow was General Motors, downgraded yet again by another rating agency. That stock was down 2.75 percent.
This morning, futures are lower. The price of oil is creeping back up again. A big inventory report later this morning heading towards $50 a barrel, you can see here. And that has got futures lower indeed.
Now let's talk about this situation with Disney. The American Family Association, a Christian organization based in Mississippi, has been boycotting Disney for nine years. Yesterday, they lifted their ban. They said the departure of Michael Eisner was good news for their constituency. The parting of ways with Miramax was good news for their constituency. And also -- and I found this interesting -- the fact that Disney is going to be making the film of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" was seen as good news by this Christian group, because C.S. Lewis, the author of that book, was a devout Christian, and apparently there are a lot of Christian messages in that story.
O'BRIEN: Was it a successful boycott?
SERWER: I would have to say that it really didn't do a whole lot of anything for the Disney Company.
O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right, Andy, thanks.
HEMMER: Here's Jack and the "Question of the Day" now.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill.
The House of Representatives voting to expand federal funding for stem cell research using human embryos. The bill now goes to the Senate. The president says he'll veto it. The potential benefits from stem cell research are huge, but harvesting human embryo is a tricky moral issue for some.
With all of the other problems facing this country -- porous borders, record deficits, 50 million of us with no health insurance -- the question this morning is this: Should stem cell research be a priority for Congress?
Doug in New Jersey writes: "There is no room for narrow- mindedness when it comes to researching ways to cure diabetes and other life-threatening disorders. Stem cell research may be more important to mankind over the next decade than the exploration of space and should be federally funded to determine the potential."
John in Virginia writes: "Stem cell research should not be a priority for Congress. This Congress has shown a remarkable ability to focus on things they have no comprehension of and an inability to focus on what's needed."
Jack in Louisiana: "The health and welfare of the American people should be the priority of Congress. Stem cell research, like steroid abuse, is part of that priority."
Dawn in Connecticut writes: "Most of these embryos are discarded as it is. By using federal funds for embryonic stem cell research, we're ensuring that these lives are not wasted."
And Dave in Florida writes: "Let the rest of the world do all of the research. Then when the cures for diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, et cetera, are developed, we get all of the sanctimonious lunatic Luddites who opposed the research to sign a waiver that they and their families cannot participate in the benefits they didn't want the rest of us to have."
HEMMER: And there's one look, huh?
SERWER: That's interesting.
HEMMER: There is an awful lot of money in this, too. They're talking billions of dollars overseas if any one of these companies or countries can get the development that they're looking for right now. An awful lot of cash.
CAFFERTY: Well, somebody besides the United States probably will at the rate we're going.
SERWER: Right.
CAFFERTY: We'll be running behind on that like we are on some other things these days.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Still ahead this morning, "90-Second Pop," and once again Bill Maher is under fire for a comment that he made on his TV show. But should he be fired for it? A look at that's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Stop covering your ears. That wasn't so bad.
Welcome back, everybody. It is time for another episode of "90- Second Pop" with our AMERICAN MORNING idols. Toure, CNN's pop culture correspondent. Karyn Bryant, the co-host of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT." And Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com.
Now, why would you cover your ears? That wasn't so bad.
TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, finally, we're putting Carrie out of her misery. "American Idol" is over! Bo is going to win. He's so far ahead of Carrie, it's not even funny. Carrie didn't even belong in the competition anymore. And I know you didn't ask a question. I know that.
O'BRIEN: I know, I'm like...
TOURE: No problem. O'BRIEN: I thought she did pretty well last night.
TOURE: I felt like -- you know, do you ever go to karaoke...
O'BRIEN: No.
TOURE: ... and, you know, there's that one person who is, like, serious and out there with their friends? They're just there to sing.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
TOURE: She's like that. And you're, like, they're good, but not really that good. I mean, when she did her money note, I was like, oh, stop!
KARYN BRYANT, CNN CO-HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": She just doesn't have the stage presence, I think, is what it is.
O'BRIEN: I agree with that.
BRYANT: And I think that what it is with her, when she sings a song, she doesn't have enough life experience to really impart that into the music and make the songs better.
O'BRIEN: She has said, to her credit, that she's working on, you know, the performance part of it.
BRYANT: She has a nice voice, but I voted for Bo.
TOURE: It's all about Bo right now.
O'BRIEN: What did you love about Bo?
TOURE: I mean, he's edgy. He takes chances. He's a real performer. He actually is the first person, the first "American Idol," I'm actually curious to hear what his album will be like.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but isn't "American Idol" all about pop stars, and he's rock?
BRYANT: That's the thing.
TOURE: Well, southern rock is still part of pop. He's still got -- he's pop-edgy. I mean, he wouldn't make it in Radiohead or something. I mean, he's still pop.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: You know, the important thing is tonight is the last night of "American Idol." And who says we don't report good news on CNN?
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's right. Let's move on.
Bill Maher, here is what he had to say on his show. Hello, are you with me?
BRYANT: He cracks me up. (CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: So, we're still on TV. We're still on the TV machine.
O'BRIEN: This is what Bill Maher had to say: "The Army missed its recruiting goal by 42 percent last month. More people joined the Michael Jackson fan club." Quote: "We've done picked all the low- lying Lynndie England fruit, and now we need warm bodies."
Some people are taking offense.
BOROWITZ: Yes, that's pretty offensive. I think he later then said he meant no disrespect to the military, which I'm not exactly sure what that means. I guess he only was teasing them out of respect, I guess is what that means. I don't know. I mean, there are some people now calling for him to be fired. He was fired by ABC, and now he's on HBO. I don't think he will be fired, because I think that HBO thrives on controversy. I think that, quite frankly, the fact that we're talking about it is probably good news for Bill Maher.
O'BRIEN: And driving viewers to the show.
BRYANT: I think it's treasonous.
O'BRIEN: Yes, there's that Alabama congressman, Bachus, who says it actually borders on treason.
TOURE: It's not treasonous. He has the right to say what he wants. I mean, it's Bill Maher.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: Well, (INAUDIBLE) that first amendment, you know.
TOURE: But, I mean, like, the congressman should really be upset with Lynndie England for making the military look bad, not for somebody pointing out that she...
O'BRIEN: You don't think it's a contradiction to say that and then say that I fully support and respect our people serving in the military?
BOROWITZ: Well, he's a hypocrite.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: But I don't know if he can be fired.
O'BRIEN: But that's not treason.
BOROWITZ: That falls just short of treason.
O'BRIEN: OK. Can somebody explain this story to me? I'm not sure who is playing Jeff Toobin today, but Motley Crue is suing NBC.
BRYANT: Right, because... O'BRIEN: A bad word was said.
BRYANT: Right, on the New Year's Eve show.
BOROWITZ: Which we will not repeat.
O'BRIEN: We will not.
BRYANT: And so, now they are saying that they've been banned by NBC, and they're suing because they're saying, well, you know, you've banned us from all of your other shows, and...
O'BRIEN: On what grounds can they sue, Jeff Toobin?
BOROWITZ: Well, they are saying -they used the word "discrimination." They are fighting the man! They're the Motley Crue with Uma (ph) is fighting the man.
TOURE: I mean, like, the rock band that's fighting the man with a lawyer and can't curse.
BOROWITZ: Well, they say discrimination because they said that other people have gotten away with using...
O'BRIEN: Right, Bono.
BOROWITZ: There's Bono, Teresa Heinz Kerry.
O'BRIEN: Exactly. But wouldn't they take that argument to the FCC and not NBC? Can't NBC put anybody who they want or ban anybody?
BRYANT: Yes, because the FCC is cracking down so much on the networks that they are saying they are sort of being a scapegoat, and that, you know, NBC, if they wanted to, could back them up but they're choosing not to.
TOURE: I mean, unfortunately, it's not much of a loss for NBC to ban Motley Crue, because there's not that much demand.
And where am I going to hear Motley Crue now?
TOURE: I mean, if it was like banning like, again, Radiohead, that would be a problem. People would be banging on the doors and knocking, saying let them play. But, like, Motley Crue?
BRYANT: The Crue is on tour. They're actually doing OK for a reunion tour.
TOURE: The Crue. What's with you?
BRYANT: I'm not saying I'm going. I'm just saying...
BOROWITZ: They have a new album.
TOURE: But Soledad will be there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.
ROUNTREE: Right after the Rolling Stones tour.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
TOURE: And I'll go to see him and then I'll leave, just like "House of Wax." You see Paris Hilton killed and then you leave.
O'BRIEN: A little insight into Toure, a little bit scary. You guys, as always, I thank you.
And before a new "American Idol" is chosen, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" gets up close and personal with "Idol" judge Simon Cowell. It is a special report on the real Simon. Is he nice or not nice, Karyn?
BRYANT: I'm a Simon fan. So, I'll leave it at that.
O'BRIEN: OK. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", 7:00 Eastern on Headline Prime -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, the real Jeff Toobin. Actually, in a moment here, we're going to get to these new Paris Hilton ads. Some say it's too hot for TV. One group is striking out about this. And we'll talk to one of the group's members, one of its leaders, in fact, to see what they would like to see happen here. Back in a moment, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING. It's a Wednesday. We'll roll on after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Messages on militant Web sites say Iraq's most-wanted terrorist is wounded. But are those postings legitimate? That story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Good morning. The wave of deadly attacks across Iraq drawing another heavy response from the U.S. military in the western desert again today. It's called Operation New Market.
U.S. intel checking what could be a major development in Iraq, word that Zarqawi has been wounded. What's the truth behind the cryptic message today?
And President Bush promising to veto a bill on stem cell research. Why then are so many Republicans breaking ranks?
All ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired May 25, 2005 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. It is exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Coming up, we're going to talk about the latest round of legal problems for Lionel Tate. Remember him? He was sentenced to life in prison at age 14, later freed. Well, he is back in court today on armed robbery charges.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, he is on probation. It could really cost him in time, we're told. We'll talk to his lawyer in a moment about what's happening there in Florida.
O'BRIEN: Before we get to that, though, let's get another check of the headlines this morning with Carol Costello.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Good morning. Good morning to all of you.
"Now in the News."
U.S. troops in Iraq launching a new offensive this morning aimed at rooting out insurgents. Military sources say some 1,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops have encircled Haditha. That's about 40 miles northwest of Baghdad. The assault, known as New Market, is the second major operation in the region in less than a month. Two Marines were reportedly injured in initial fighting.
U.S. officials are downplaying reports that terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been wounded. The message appears on Islamic Web sites. It claims Zarqawi suffered an heroic wound and asks his followers to pray for him. Pentagon officials tell CNN they are not able to verify the report, and similar rumors in the past have never been confirmed.
A convicted killer who had wanted to donate part of his liver to his ailing sister has been executed. Gregory Johnson died by lethal injection early this morning at the Indiana state prison. The governor rejected Johnson's request for a reprieve, saying medical experts declared his liver was not a good match for his sister.
And a possible new link between walking and surviving breast cancer. A new study out today suggests breast cancer patients who walk just three hours a week -- that's just three hours a week -- could significantly cut the risk of dying from the disease. The findings come from a long-term analysis some of 3,000 women with breast cancer. Details appear in today's "Journal of the American Medical Association." So that's not much walking, and it could save your life -- Bill.
HEMMER: Carol, thanks.
Thirty-two minutes past the hour now.
Lionel Tate goes before a judge today on a new charge, armed robbery. Tate made headlines six years ago in a historic murder case. Now, the young troubled man from Florida is facing the possibility of another prison term.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER (voice over): Lionel Tate, now 18 and on probation, has been charged with pulling a gun on a pizza delivery man in Pembroke Park, Florida. You may remember Tate. He was just 12 when charged in the beating death of 6-year-old Tiffany Eunick. That was in 1999.
At age 14, Tate became the youngest person in the U.S. to be sentenced to life in prison.
After serving three years, his conviction was overturned on appeal, and a plea bargain placed him under house arrest. Tate first violated that probation this past September, when he was found outside his home with a knife.
Now, he's back behind bars, accused of armed robbery and again facing the possibility of a long stretch in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Jim Lewis is the attorney for Lionel Tate. He's my guest now from Ft. Lauderdale.
Thank you for your time, sir. Good morning to you there.
JIM LEWIS, LIONEL TATE'S ATTORNEY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Police are saying it's a pretty airtight case. How is your client responding to this latest event?
LEWIS: Absolutely not. I had met with Lionel yesterday. He told me he did not do this. From what I've been able to find out about the facts of this case, it seems to me that it's very weak in terms of the case against him.
HEMMER: How will he prove he wasn't involved then?
LEWIS: Well, he was there, and he ate some pizza. What happened is he showed up at a friend's house, and apparently there had been some type of a fracas or a robbery occurred. And he was there after the fact.
His clothing description is totally different than what the pizza man gives. Supposedly, the assailant had a bandana covering his face. I think when all of the facts come out here -- and a lot of people are rushing to judgments -- they're going to find out that Lionel had nothing to do with this.
HEMMER: Was there a gun there, Mr. Lewis?
LEWIS: There has been no gun found. As far as we know, there was no gun, even though the pizza man did report that he saw a gun.
HEMMER: All right. This is not the first time he's been in trouble with the law since being released and on probation. There are some legal experts in your state of Florida who now believe that this could be really tough news for Tate, going from probation to the possibility of life behind bars if this charge is proven against him. Do you fear that?
LEWIS: Oh, no question about it. If he did this, then he deserves 20 or 30 years in prison. But I don't believe that he did. And I think when all of the facts come out, nobody is going to believe that he did this.
HEMMER: Does he fear this, the possibility of life behind bars?
LEWIS: Of course. Who wouldn't? This is still an 18-year-old, a very young man, who is doing quite well, who graduated from school, was going to cooking school, is putting his life back together. And it's just a real shame now that this has come up. But, quite frankly, I think too many people are rushing to judgment. And I think when all of the facts are in, we're going to find out he didn't do this.
HEMMER: A forensic psychologist by the name of Michael Brannon (ph), had examined Lionel Tate, appointed by the judge. He had this to say: "We had a real chance. The right thing would have been to get this young man some help." Did the system fail Lionel Tate at this point, or is Lionel Tate just doing himself more damage?
LEWIS: No, I don't think that -- again, I think we're rushing to judgment that Lionel Tate has done this. You know, spending three years in a juvenile prison, I don't know that it does anybody a lot of good. However, while he was in there he got very intensive psychological counseling, testing. And when he got out, there were a number of people that tried to help this young man get on with his life. And by most accounts, he was doing pretty well.
HEMMER: You're saying the state was there for him, aren't you?
LEWIS: Well, services were provided. And I think Lionel took advantage of many of those services. He didn't have, you know, all of the opportunities that many youths have as they were growing up. But, you know, we're just all hoping and praying that these allegations are not true, and this young man can get on with his life.
HEMMER: We'll watch it from here. Jim Lewis, thanks. The attorney for Lionel Tate there in Ft. Lauderdale.
LEWIS: Thank you. HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: In the Michael Jackson trial, the defense is expected to rest today after calling its final witness. And that final witness is not Michael Jackson.
Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Comedian Chris Tucker, the last defense witness, is expected to finish his testimony today. Tucker was close to the accuser and his family during the time of the accusations against Michael Jackson.
During about 20 minutes of testimony, Tucker said he bought the accuser and his family clothes and gave them over $1,500 in cash. Tucker is expected to say he did not see any evidence of a conspiracy to keep the accuser and his family at Neverland ranch.
Some legal analysts say the defense decision to end its case with Tucker and not put Jackson himself on the stand was the right move.
CRAIG SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: Frankly, that's not surprising to me. Not calling Michael Jackson as a witness is the biggest no- brainer in the history of mankind.
ROWLANDS: Yesterday, comedian Jay Leno, who has been making fun of Jackson for months, took the stand.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": It was really odd walking into that courtroom today, because I realized it was the first time I'd seen Michael since I was 12.
ROWLANDS: Leno said he received a number of phone messages from Jackson's accuser that -- quote -- "seemed a little odd." Leno also said the messages were full of praise for the comedian and seemed -- quote -- "scripted." And later, he said through a mutual acquaintance, he had the calls stopped.
But Leno never said the boy or his family asked for money, which seems to contradict what the defense promised in its opening statements when it said that Leno was the victim of an attempted shakedown by the accuser and his family.
TRENT COPELAND, LEGAL ANALYST: He should have been one of these knock-your-socks-off final flourishing witnesses. He was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won't you testify, Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
ROWLANDS: With his lawyer at his side, Michael Jackson had no comment as to why he isn't taking the stand.
(on camera): The defense is expected to rest when Tucker finishes his testimony. Prosecutors told the judge they do plan to put on a short rebuttal case, meaning by sometime next week jurors could start deliberating Michael Jackson's fate.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to talk to criminal defense attorney Anne Bremner, who was in the courtroom for Leno's testimony.
HEMMER: It's about 22 minutes now before the hour.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: I admit it. This next one sounds like a little bit like a fish story. Here it is. Tim Pruitt, fishing in the Mississippi River on Sunday, caught a blue catfish. Look at this thing. It is roughly the size of a sixth grader. Now, if you don't know what a sixth grader's size is, it's about 124 pounds, 58 inches long, 44 inches around. Pruitt says he struggled with the fish for more than half-an-hour. And, in fact, at one point, the big old catfish was dragging his boat. Finally, he was able to reel it in. Well, guess what? The fish has been kept alive. It's going to be on display in Kansas City, Kansas.
HEMMER: I bet that's one ticked off fish, you know. How long has he been out there plying the waters of the Mississippi?
O'BRIEN: Alive and angry.
HEMMER: Yes, very angry, too.
O'BRIEN: We've got some business news ahead this morning. A dark cloud that's been hanging over the Magic Kingdom for nine years now finally clears. Andy has got a little good news for Disney as he minds your business ahead.
HEMMER: Also, who are you voting for? Carrie or Bo, taking the stage for the final showdown last night? Who deserves to be the next "American Idol?" Bo deserves it, but you know Carrie is going to win. "90-Second Pop" is still ahead this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Some business news to tell you about now. A conservative group is happy with Mickey Mouse and company once again. And oil prices could spell bad news for stocks.
Andy is "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad. We've got a lot of stuff going on. Let's talk about the markets first of all. Yesterday, a mixed picture for stocks and for investors. The Dow down a bit. The S&P and Nasdaq up. You can see here, the culprit on the Dow was General Motors, downgraded yet again by another rating agency. That stock was down 2.75 percent.
This morning, futures are lower. The price of oil is creeping back up again. A big inventory report later this morning heading towards $50 a barrel, you can see here. And that has got futures lower indeed.
Now let's talk about this situation with Disney. The American Family Association, a Christian organization based in Mississippi, has been boycotting Disney for nine years. Yesterday, they lifted their ban. They said the departure of Michael Eisner was good news for their constituency. The parting of ways with Miramax was good news for their constituency. And also -- and I found this interesting -- the fact that Disney is going to be making the film of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" was seen as good news by this Christian group, because C.S. Lewis, the author of that book, was a devout Christian, and apparently there are a lot of Christian messages in that story.
O'BRIEN: Was it a successful boycott?
SERWER: I would have to say that it really didn't do a whole lot of anything for the Disney Company.
O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right, Andy, thanks.
HEMMER: Here's Jack and the "Question of the Day" now.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill.
The House of Representatives voting to expand federal funding for stem cell research using human embryos. The bill now goes to the Senate. The president says he'll veto it. The potential benefits from stem cell research are huge, but harvesting human embryo is a tricky moral issue for some.
With all of the other problems facing this country -- porous borders, record deficits, 50 million of us with no health insurance -- the question this morning is this: Should stem cell research be a priority for Congress?
Doug in New Jersey writes: "There is no room for narrow- mindedness when it comes to researching ways to cure diabetes and other life-threatening disorders. Stem cell research may be more important to mankind over the next decade than the exploration of space and should be federally funded to determine the potential."
John in Virginia writes: "Stem cell research should not be a priority for Congress. This Congress has shown a remarkable ability to focus on things they have no comprehension of and an inability to focus on what's needed."
Jack in Louisiana: "The health and welfare of the American people should be the priority of Congress. Stem cell research, like steroid abuse, is part of that priority."
Dawn in Connecticut writes: "Most of these embryos are discarded as it is. By using federal funds for embryonic stem cell research, we're ensuring that these lives are not wasted."
And Dave in Florida writes: "Let the rest of the world do all of the research. Then when the cures for diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, et cetera, are developed, we get all of the sanctimonious lunatic Luddites who opposed the research to sign a waiver that they and their families cannot participate in the benefits they didn't want the rest of us to have."
HEMMER: And there's one look, huh?
SERWER: That's interesting.
HEMMER: There is an awful lot of money in this, too. They're talking billions of dollars overseas if any one of these companies or countries can get the development that they're looking for right now. An awful lot of cash.
CAFFERTY: Well, somebody besides the United States probably will at the rate we're going.
SERWER: Right.
CAFFERTY: We'll be running behind on that like we are on some other things these days.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Still ahead this morning, "90-Second Pop," and once again Bill Maher is under fire for a comment that he made on his TV show. But should he be fired for it? A look at that's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Stop covering your ears. That wasn't so bad.
Welcome back, everybody. It is time for another episode of "90- Second Pop" with our AMERICAN MORNING idols. Toure, CNN's pop culture correspondent. Karyn Bryant, the co-host of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT." And Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com.
Now, why would you cover your ears? That wasn't so bad.
TOURE, CNN POP CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, finally, we're putting Carrie out of her misery. "American Idol" is over! Bo is going to win. He's so far ahead of Carrie, it's not even funny. Carrie didn't even belong in the competition anymore. And I know you didn't ask a question. I know that.
O'BRIEN: I know, I'm like...
TOURE: No problem. O'BRIEN: I thought she did pretty well last night.
TOURE: I felt like -- you know, do you ever go to karaoke...
O'BRIEN: No.
TOURE: ... and, you know, there's that one person who is, like, serious and out there with their friends? They're just there to sing.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
TOURE: She's like that. And you're, like, they're good, but not really that good. I mean, when she did her money note, I was like, oh, stop!
KARYN BRYANT, CNN CO-HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": She just doesn't have the stage presence, I think, is what it is.
O'BRIEN: I agree with that.
BRYANT: And I think that what it is with her, when she sings a song, she doesn't have enough life experience to really impart that into the music and make the songs better.
O'BRIEN: She has said, to her credit, that she's working on, you know, the performance part of it.
BRYANT: She has a nice voice, but I voted for Bo.
TOURE: It's all about Bo right now.
O'BRIEN: What did you love about Bo?
TOURE: I mean, he's edgy. He takes chances. He's a real performer. He actually is the first person, the first "American Idol," I'm actually curious to hear what his album will be like.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but isn't "American Idol" all about pop stars, and he's rock?
BRYANT: That's the thing.
TOURE: Well, southern rock is still part of pop. He's still got -- he's pop-edgy. I mean, he wouldn't make it in Radiohead or something. I mean, he's still pop.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: You know, the important thing is tonight is the last night of "American Idol." And who says we don't report good news on CNN?
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's right. Let's move on.
Bill Maher, here is what he had to say on his show. Hello, are you with me?
BRYANT: He cracks me up. (CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: So, we're still on TV. We're still on the TV machine.
O'BRIEN: This is what Bill Maher had to say: "The Army missed its recruiting goal by 42 percent last month. More people joined the Michael Jackson fan club." Quote: "We've done picked all the low- lying Lynndie England fruit, and now we need warm bodies."
Some people are taking offense.
BOROWITZ: Yes, that's pretty offensive. I think he later then said he meant no disrespect to the military, which I'm not exactly sure what that means. I guess he only was teasing them out of respect, I guess is what that means. I don't know. I mean, there are some people now calling for him to be fired. He was fired by ABC, and now he's on HBO. I don't think he will be fired, because I think that HBO thrives on controversy. I think that, quite frankly, the fact that we're talking about it is probably good news for Bill Maher.
O'BRIEN: And driving viewers to the show.
BRYANT: I think it's treasonous.
O'BRIEN: Yes, there's that Alabama congressman, Bachus, who says it actually borders on treason.
TOURE: It's not treasonous. He has the right to say what he wants. I mean, it's Bill Maher.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: Well, (INAUDIBLE) that first amendment, you know.
TOURE: But, I mean, like, the congressman should really be upset with Lynndie England for making the military look bad, not for somebody pointing out that she...
O'BRIEN: You don't think it's a contradiction to say that and then say that I fully support and respect our people serving in the military?
BOROWITZ: Well, he's a hypocrite.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: But I don't know if he can be fired.
O'BRIEN: But that's not treason.
BOROWITZ: That falls just short of treason.
O'BRIEN: OK. Can somebody explain this story to me? I'm not sure who is playing Jeff Toobin today, but Motley Crue is suing NBC.
BRYANT: Right, because... O'BRIEN: A bad word was said.
BRYANT: Right, on the New Year's Eve show.
BOROWITZ: Which we will not repeat.
O'BRIEN: We will not.
BRYANT: And so, now they are saying that they've been banned by NBC, and they're suing because they're saying, well, you know, you've banned us from all of your other shows, and...
O'BRIEN: On what grounds can they sue, Jeff Toobin?
BOROWITZ: Well, they are saying -they used the word "discrimination." They are fighting the man! They're the Motley Crue with Uma (ph) is fighting the man.
TOURE: I mean, like, the rock band that's fighting the man with a lawyer and can't curse.
BOROWITZ: Well, they say discrimination because they said that other people have gotten away with using...
O'BRIEN: Right, Bono.
BOROWITZ: There's Bono, Teresa Heinz Kerry.
O'BRIEN: Exactly. But wouldn't they take that argument to the FCC and not NBC? Can't NBC put anybody who they want or ban anybody?
BRYANT: Yes, because the FCC is cracking down so much on the networks that they are saying they are sort of being a scapegoat, and that, you know, NBC, if they wanted to, could back them up but they're choosing not to.
TOURE: I mean, unfortunately, it's not much of a loss for NBC to ban Motley Crue, because there's not that much demand.
And where am I going to hear Motley Crue now?
TOURE: I mean, if it was like banning like, again, Radiohead, that would be a problem. People would be banging on the doors and knocking, saying let them play. But, like, Motley Crue?
BRYANT: The Crue is on tour. They're actually doing OK for a reunion tour.
TOURE: The Crue. What's with you?
BRYANT: I'm not saying I'm going. I'm just saying...
BOROWITZ: They have a new album.
TOURE: But Soledad will be there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.
ROUNTREE: Right after the Rolling Stones tour.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
TOURE: And I'll go to see him and then I'll leave, just like "House of Wax." You see Paris Hilton killed and then you leave.
O'BRIEN: A little insight into Toure, a little bit scary. You guys, as always, I thank you.
And before a new "American Idol" is chosen, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" gets up close and personal with "Idol" judge Simon Cowell. It is a special report on the real Simon. Is he nice or not nice, Karyn?
BRYANT: I'm a Simon fan. So, I'll leave it at that.
O'BRIEN: OK. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", 7:00 Eastern on Headline Prime -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, the real Jeff Toobin. Actually, in a moment here, we're going to get to these new Paris Hilton ads. Some say it's too hot for TV. One group is striking out about this. And we'll talk to one of the group's members, one of its leaders, in fact, to see what they would like to see happen here. Back in a moment, top of the hour on AMERICAN MORNING. It's a Wednesday. We'll roll on after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Messages on militant Web sites say Iraq's most-wanted terrorist is wounded. But are those postings legitimate? That story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Good morning. The wave of deadly attacks across Iraq drawing another heavy response from the U.S. military in the western desert again today. It's called Operation New Market.
U.S. intel checking what could be a major development in Iraq, word that Zarqawi has been wounded. What's the truth behind the cryptic message today?
And President Bush promising to veto a bill on stem cell research. Why then are so many Republicans breaking ranks?
All ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
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