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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Stealing Our Secrets; Army Recruiting; War in Iraq; Illegal Immigration
Aired June 02, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good evening, everybody. Tonight, will American troops be in Iraq 10 years from now? General David Grange is our guest.
Plus, middle class squeeze, how a rising number of cities are introducing living wage laws to protect American workers.
And the escalating battle over sex education. Tonight, a special report from one community on the front line of the culture war.
Our top story tonight is about foreign countries' efforts to steal our most valuable military and commercial secrets. A U.S. counterintelligence report declares that foreign spies are eroding our military advantage. China, Russia, India among the countries accused of stealing critically important American technology.
David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Foreign spies, from nearly 100 different nations, sought to steal sensitive U.S. technology last year, the U.S. intelligence community report says, and exacted a significant cost to this country. Much of it is industrial espionage, made easier, says the report's author, by modern technology.
DEAN CARVER, AUTHOR, U.S. INTELLIGENCE REPORT: I think the big change is in how easy it is now to get at this information and how easy it is to store it, how easy it is to walk out with it.
ENSOR: At General Motors, because of security concerns, camera phones are not allowed. Top targets for economic spies are high-tech sensors, electronics, aeronautics and information systems. The report does not name names, but officials say the thieves include citizens of Russia, India, Pakistan, Iran, Japan, France, Israel, and above all by far, China.
CARVER: We realize we can't compete with China head to head on labor costs. It's our innovation and our research and development that allows us to compete. And if that is stolen and is available to Chinese companies at little or no cost, then, of course, for our competitiveness that's a problem.
ENSOR: Arrests happen almost every week, officials say, including two Chinese-born Americans arrested at San Francisco Airport now awaiting trial. They were carrying, officials say, sensitive trade secrets from four different Silicon Valley high-tech companies. At a recent conference FBI officials reached out to others for help.
DAVID SZADY, FMR. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: How are we going to stop all that? We're not. But what we need to do is get together with you, get together with the military, get together with the owners, get together with the developers, and say, how can we put a counterintelligence umbrella around this before it is stolen so that when they ping on it we know it?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: The report says economic spies are sometimes able to obtain commercially valuable data by making email or fax requests of naive American companies. The losses range from national security secrets to valuable American jobs -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. David Ensor.
Well, later in the broadcast, Admiral Bobby Inman will join us. He's a former director of the National Security Agency and former deputy director of the CIA. We'll be discussing this issue.
The Pentagon has delayed the release of the Army's latest recruiting numbers. Military officials insist there's no connection with the Army's failure to attract enough new recruits in recent months.
Jamie McIntyre has our report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the May figures are still being compiled, but they are not being released just yet, even though no one here is expecting any sort of a turnaround. The Army insists that the slight delay in releasing the May recruiting figures is not any effort to hide bad news, but rather is an effort to provide a more complete picture by releasing the figures for the Army active duty, the Reserve and the Guard all at the same time.
The Army's April figures were dismal, off 42 percent. It's the third month in a row that the Army has missed its recruiting goals for the year.
It's about 16 percent short of the 80,000 recruits that it's looking for. But nobody in the Army is denying anymore that there's a real problem, or as they like to say here at the Pentagon, a real challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL ROCHELLE, U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND: Today's conditions represent the most challenging conditions we have seen in recruiting in my 33 years in this uniform. We are faced with very low unemployment, the first time that the all-volunteer force has been challenged in sustained land combat. I believe that the total casualties are up over 8,000. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: And those casualties, the Pentagon believes, is a prime reason why parents and other so-called influencers don't want their young kids to go into the military. If you want to see why recruiting is down, look no farther -- farther than the Air Force and the Navy. Neither of them are facing any recruiting problems because they don't have troops, as many troops on the ground. But the Marines, who have troops on the ground in combat, they also have missed recruiting deadlines for three months in a row.
Now, what's the Army doing? They have put new bonuses in effect. A minimum of $5,000.
They have shortened the enlistment term. You can sign up now for 15 months or active duty or three years in the Reserves. And they are hoping that they are going to be able to turn this around before the end of the fiscal year -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Jamie McIntyre. Thanks, Jamie.
Well, three more American troops have been killed in Iraq. Two were killed in combat near the western city of Ramadi, and the third soldier died in an accident in northern Iraq. About 20 Iraqis were killed in a series of insurgent attacks today.
Jennifer Eccleston reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An explosive-rigged motorcycle detonated in a busy street in the northern city of Mosul. Iraqi officials tell CNN one policeman is dead and 16 people have been wounded.
The attack is yet another example at violence that continues to shadow large parts of Iraq. And it began this morning as diners were eating breakfast outside the northern city of Kirkuk, where a suicide car bomb ripped through a restaurant, killing 12 people and injuring 38 hours. Now, among the dead is a bodyguard to Iraq's deputy prime minister, a Kurd. Six other of his bodyguards were also wounded.
Almost 30 minutes later, another suicide bomber targeted an American diplomatic convoy. This time in the city center of Kirkuk. Two Iraqi children died as a result of that blast and 11 people were wounded.
And then the violence spread southward to the city of Baquba, some 10 to 15 minutes after the Kirkuk attack. A local government official and three of his bodyguards were killed after a suicide bomber attacked his convoy.
And the U.S. Central Command here in Baghdad also announced today that three U.S. soldiers died yesterday, two from combat-related deaths outside of Baghdad in western Iraq, outside the city of Ramadi. Now, in an effort to stem the wave of violence, the Iraqi-led Operation Lightning, involving tens of thousands of Iraqi forces and some 7,000 U.S. troops, continues here in Baghdad. It's in its fifth day. The Iraqi officials are claiming success in capturing hundreds of insurgents and a number of weapons cache, but still the violence continues throughout a large part of this country.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is off on an overseas trip to brief allies on Iraq and other issues. Rumsfeld left Washington today. His first stop, Singapore, for talks with the Asian defense ministers. And they'll discuss the North Korean nuclear crisis and China's push to modernize its military. Rumsfeld then heads off to Belgium for a meeting with defense -- NATO defense ministers.
President Bush today nominated Congressman Christopher Cox to be the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Congressman Cox will replace William Donaldson. Now, the congressman is a strong advocate of curbs on investor lawsuits.
Bill Tucker reports on the president's choice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As a champion of the free enterprise system in Congress, Chris Cox knows that a free economy is built on trust.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congressman Cox was everybody's expected nominee. Many also expected the Securities and Exchange Commission will be a very different place under the leadership of Cox. A fact that he seemed aware of as he accepted the nomination.
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX (R), SEC CHAIRMAN NOMINEE: The natural enemies of this economic marvel are fraud and unfair dealing. Congress and your administration, Mr. President, have both done their part to strengthen the laws that protect investors and our financial markets. And if confirmed, I look forward to carrying out that mandate.
TUCKER: Those who question Cox's intentions point to the Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 which he sponsored. The law restricts the right of shareholders to file class action lawsuits against companies. But shareholder advocates say any rush to judgment could be premature.
JOEL SELIGMAN, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: My sense is Cox will be an effective chair if he reassures the staff, reassures the financial community, that he wants to be a consensus builder, that he takes very seriously the integrity of the market, investor confidence. TUCKER: ox currently serves as the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. During his 16 years in Congress as the elected representative from Orange County, California, he's been instrumental in the crafting of immigration reform. And advocates of such legislation say his departure would be felt.
BRIAN BILBRAY, FAIR: We're going to miss Chris Cox. I mean, he was -- three weeks after 9/11, he was working on the concept of identification enhancement and everything else. And he really developed a lot of the strategies that other people picked up and carried.
TUCKER: But for all his history in Congress, Cox has little to none on Wall Street. Investor groups remain cautious, yet are hopeful that Cox will make a good chairman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: They point out, much like a mutual fund disclaimer, that past performance is no guarantee of future success. And they point out that outgoing chairman, Donaldson, who when he took office, Kitty, was never expected to become the advocate for shareholder rights that he eventually did become.
PILGRIM: It's interesting. Well, the times they do change. Right, Bill?
TUCKER: They do.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.
Coming up, a massive landslide. Hundreds of people still unable to return to their homes. A live report from Laguna Beach.
And the escalating battle over sex education. One community is split right down the middle. We'll have a special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In Laguna beach, California, tonight, as many as 50 houses remain in danger of collapse. That's after yesterday's massive landslide. In all, some 1,000 people were evacuated from their homes, and now there's some new developments. So Sean Callebs is in Laguna Beach with the very latest -- Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Kitty.
Perhaps you can see over my shoulder a certain degree of activity at this police checkpoint. That's because in just about 50 minutes authorities here in Laguna Beach are going to start letting a number of homeowners pass the police barricades back into their homes. Something like 300 homeowners are going to be allowed back in.
Now, the evacuation caused by yesterday morning's earth slide caused the evacuation of 350 homes. But some of those people will not be going back. Indeed, authorities are saying if you don't have to go back this evening, please hold off another 24 hours.
But there are 26 homes that have been so-called red-tagged. That means they are threatened. They're not necessarily damaged or destroyed, but they are in an area that authorities are concerned could still slide. And there are 22 homes that have simply been destroyed or damaged. Those areas are considered red-tagged, and no telling when those people are going to be allowed back in.
A couple of other items coming from a news conference that emergency officials here had within the past hour. The gas has been off here since yesterday morning. When the landslide happened, neighbors reported hearing the lines go up, the gas lines exploding.
Well, it's going to be turned back on as early as tomorrow afternoon, 4:00 local time, 7:00 Eastern. It's going to take some time, and it's going to go house to house to house.
Still concerns about drinking water in this area. They are telling residents not to drink tap water, but to boil it first.
And what about all the damage from this? These are very, very expensive homes, $1.5 million to well above $2 million.
In California, you cannot get insurance for an earth slide caused by nature. So there are a lot of people who yesterday or the morning perhaps were millionaires on paper, but are now concerned that their homes, their land could be worth nothing. So certainly people here on pins and needles.
Tempers are getting somewhat frayed here. It is a very anxious time out here in Laguna Beach.
Kitty, back to you.
PILGRIM: Sean, is there any indication that things have stopped sliding, that the topography is stable at this point?
CALLEBS: That's a very good question. Yesterday, authorities were concerned about that all day. And, indeed, there are some roads up there that are considered simply blocked off, meaning residents can't go back in.
There is still the concern that more areas could slide. We know that geologists have been up there doing work today. They are expected to come down, perhaps brief the residents up there as soon as they can on the conditions. But there's no bedrock up there.
We talked to a landscape developer today, and they said it's just clay. With all the precipitation southern California got in December, January, and February, that seeped down into the ground, apparently eroded the ground underneath, and maybe the ground only slid 10 feet or so. But it was enough in these very steep hills to cause the damage that you see behind me.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Sean Callebs. Well, turning now to a fierce battle in one American community. That's between conservative parents and public schools. Maryland's largest school district, it's Montgomery County, is scrapping its new sexual education curriculum after it outraged many parents.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, after your shirt (ph) it's going to roll the correct way, out. Roll a condom on...
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This high school sex ed film will not be seen in Montgomery County schools, nor will health teachers use resource materials that describe homosexuality as a genetic trait.
MICHELLE TURNER, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBLE CURRICULUM: We're concerned. We are concerned that it is being introduced into the schools as an indoctrination, and we feel that that does not adequately represent all the parents here that are sending their kids to the school.
ROMANS: Michelle Turner is a mother of six and the president of a group that successfully sued to keep the new sex ed materials out of the schools here. She calls the condom video silly and inaccurate and says the course might promote promiscuity and experimentation with homosexuality.
TURNER: The kid is in Sunday school on Sunday, comes to class on Monday, and the teacher is telling him that what he learned the day before is wrong, that his church, his faith, and what he has been taught in his home is wrong. The school system can't do that.
ROMANS (on camera): From this blue county in a blue state, the culture war over sex ed is spreading to Virginia and across the country, where conservative parents groups are emboldened by what's happening here.
CHRISTINE GREWELL, TEACHTHEFACTS.ORG: I think it shows the religious right has been emboldened by the election results last November. And I think they are showing their muscle.
ROMANS: Parents Christine Grewell and Jim Kennedy would like the sex ed curriculum updated to depict homosexuality as rare but normal.
GREWELL: Statistically, in every classroom, just about, there's going to be at least one gay person who needs some sort of affirmation that what they are is within normal limits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elton John did not become gay by hearing about it in a health class.
ROMANS: They say a vocal religious minority is unfairly steering school policy.
TURNER: It's not the school's place to teach a political hot topic and to take one side or the other with it.
ROMANS: For now, the school district, the largest in the state, is back to the drawing board, using its old sex ed materials. And school boards across the country are watching how this battle turns out.
Christine Romans, CNN, Silver Spring, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in the schools, teachers, parents, or local school boards? Cast your vote as LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And coming up next, Deep Throat follows the money. How Mark Felt hopes to join the long list of Watergate figures who have profited from their stories.
And then, insurgent killings on the rise in Iraq, why military experts say this insurgency may go on for years.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Bob Woodward's publisher today said the author's new book on Deep Throat will come out next month. Mark Felt also said he hopes to profit from his story from Watergate. He certainly won't be the first.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): On Wednesday, Mark Felt told reporters he plans to "write a book or something and get all the money I can." Well, why not? Felt has been keeping quiet for 33 years, watching other people make fortunes off his story.
CARL BERNSTEIN, FMR. WASHINGTON POST REPORTER: I certainly would not begrudge him making some money, given that -- especially that the critics who are saying this, most of them have written their own books about Watergate after they went to jail.
SCHNEIDER: Go to Amazon.com on your computer and type in the word "Watergate." You'll get a list of 367 books with "Watergate" in the title, most on the subject by Nixon White House insiders and journalist and, yes, ex- cons.
You can get Watergate videotapes, a boxed set; "TIME" magazine Watergate covers, framed; a mystery called "Murder at the Watergate"; even a Watergate fragrance for men.
"All the President's Men"...
PETER OSNOS, PUBLICAFFAIRS BOOKS: "All the President's Men," which was Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein's book about reporting the story, is an iconic work. I mean, it's -- you know, for some people, it's like "Catcher in the Rye." It's their sort of growing up book.
SCHNEIDER: It became a hit movie, grossing more than $70 million. Most everybody who had any connection to Watergate seems to have cashed in, except "Deep Throat." Now, at 91, it's his turn.
The Felt family's agent is seeking book advances and rights to television and movie projects. What more is there to know from "Deep Throat?"
BERNSTEIN: We had no idea of his motivations. And even now some of his motivations are unclear.
SCHNEIDER: Felt will be competing with Bob Woodward, who will be releasing his own book about his relationship with "Deep Throat" soon. We asked prominent New York publisher Peter Osnos why he thought people would want to read Felt's book.
OSNOS: To be able to see the other side, to know what it felt like to be Mark -- well, to know what it felt like to be Mark Felt.
SCHNEIDER: There are still questions out there.
OSNOS: What did Mark Felt think he was doing? If we could get the answer to that question, I think it would be one, one really interesting book.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Woodward and Bernstein sold notes and memorabilia from the Watergate investigation to the University of Texas at Austin for $5 million, minus papers that would identify Deep Throat. Those are being held at a secure, undisclosed location.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up, they're deadly, determined, and some say possibly unstoppable. We'll have a special report on the shifting tactics of the Iraqi insurgency. And we'll talk to General David Grange.
Plus, is a living wage better than the minimum wage? It's a big hit in Los Angeles. And some say it could ease illegal immigration.
Plus, the mayor of Fresno, California, is pushing a new plan on immigration reform. He says the broken border crisis can be solved by local leaders. Mayor Alan Autry will be my guest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: News, debate and opinion continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs is Kitty Pilgrim. PILGRIM: The rising number of U.S. casualties in Iraq indicates that the insurgents are using much more sophisticated tactics. The insurgents are exploding more car bombs, they're launching more suicide attacks. Well, a key question is how long they can maintain that momentum, the momentum of their attacks.
Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Experts say the Iraq insurgency centers around members of the former regime who want to retake power. They number in the thousands, but the most lethal fighters are the hundreds of foreign fighters trying to incite civil war, loyal to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
COL. THOMAS X. HAMMES, U.S. MARINE CORPS: What you have in Iraq is a variety of organizations that are very interested in taking power. Now, they don't agree with each other, but they do all agree that the United States has to get out.
STARR: Is Iraq the new Vietnam? Experts say no. The North Vietnamese had outside support from the Soviets and Chinese and appealed to much of the population.
Is Iraq the new El Salvador? For years, the U.S. supported the government there, fighting a left-wing insurgency.
Now in Iraq...
MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: You do not have essentially the whole society engaged in a broad ideological debate.
STARR: So can this multi-headed enemy be defeated by U.S. and Iraqi forces, and by an emerging Iraqi democracy? Fighting insurgents takes manpower.
TOM DONNELLY, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Because you're not just bombing people or blowing things up or destroying enemy forces in large formations. You have to pacify and secure villages and places to allow a new government to legitimate itself to take root.
STARR (on camera): The most senior U.S. military officers believe the Iraqi people are not supporting the attackers. But those officers also say it could take years to bring peace to the country.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, successful counterinsurgency campaigns often last more than a decade, and examples include the campaign in El Salvador in the 1980s and the British campaign against communists in Malaya. One former Army reserve officer says insurgencies often develop their own momentum. And writing in "The New York Times," former Lieutenant Colonel James Corum says: "People who take up arms are normally reluctant to put them down again, even if the chance of ultimate success is minimal."
Well, joining me now is General David Grange, to discuss this. And General Grange, it's interesting, this mythology of the insurgency. How would you assess it? Some overestimate it; some underestimate it classically. Where do you put it right about now?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it was a little bit underestimated after the elections. And that's because the elections was quite a blow to the insurgency. And you are going to continue to have peeks and valleys in insurgencies, where you have the insurgents had an opportunity to coordinate and resource a surge of activity. And you have that now. Part of it being supported from outside, insurgents that are coming in, which are most of the suicide bomber, those types, and then some are still loyal to the past regime. They have no future, and they either die or are captured. Some can be persuaded to change sides, but it's always a long-term event. It's nothing that happens in a quick 100-yard dash.
PILGRIM: There's been an effort to close up some of the leaking borders, where insurgents are coming across. Do you think that that's been successful?
GRANGE: Well, they have had some success, but I don't think enough pressure has been put on Syria or Saudi Arabia to support that effort, because you have to get it to source, where these people are coming from.
Suicide bombers are very hard to stop, and you have to really kill them. You cannot deter them. And so you get two today, one tomorrow, whatever. You really have to get to the source, and until that's done, the issue of suicide bombers is going to continue.
PILGRIM: You know, some argue that it's not really just manpower. It could be mind power too, that there should be an effort to embrace some of the fringe elements and bring them into the fold. What do you think of that?
GRANGE: Well, I think persuasion, to seduce the enemy to come around to your desires is fine, it's better to do that than to have to kill people, and have your people die killing them.
But again, you have a hard-core cell that are not going to be persuaded to change sides, but I think some will. And the key part is the population. If the population wanes in its support for the insurgency and supports the -- the government instead, that's tough for an insurgency to carry on without outside support. And so I think you're going to have a combination there of both that we're going to see for years.
PILGRIM: You know, Lieutenant Colonel James Corum today in his editorial suggested bringing hundreds of Iraqi security forces to the United States for training, also police to the United States for training. Do you think that would help?
GRANGE: Oh, it always helps, and you know, it's really nothing new. The time I served, we always had foreign officers from developing countries that may be in an insurgency or just finished an insurgency, in our military schools, and also in law enforcement schools. It is a -- it is a -- in the doctrine of training of their armies.
But you need a combination there. You can't just take everybody out of Iraq and send them to the United States or Great Britain or somewhere else. You have to train some in the locale of the country they belong in, and then maybe the select, the ones that appear to be the best chance to be the great leaders of the nation, you bring those over to the United States and elsewhere. But you need both.
PILGRIM: You know, we had a senior British police officer who's overseeing the training of Iraqi security in the southern part of Iraq, saying that they could have -- they could turn over operations in six to nine months to Iraqi security, and the British could possibly pull out within a year. Do you think that that's an accurate estimate of what could happen or -- and why would the British be having more success in southern Iraq?
GRANGE: Well, I'm sure it's their desire to do that. I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's going to take longer.
Now, their area is less violent than some of the American sector areas of operation, and so they have -- I think they can transition maybe a little faster, but it kind of goes against what the Brits preach, and that is it takes a while to train and set up a viable force even in an area that may be more benign. I don't think they're going to pull out in six to eight months. But they are having some success, of course.
PILGRIM: Well, we wish them every success. And thanks for joining us this evening, General David Grange, thank you.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
PILGRIM: One of Lebanon's best known journalists was killed by a car bomb in Beirut today. Samir Kassir died instantly in the attack outside of his home. Kassir was a front-page columnist for Lebanon's leading newspaper. He spoke out for years against Syria's 29-year military presence in Lebanon. Syrian troops withdrew in April, as you remember. Syria is denying responsibility for Kassir's murder, but Lebanese opposition leaders are calling for the country's pro-Syrian president to resign.
Still ahead, one American city's answer to the federal government's paltry minimum wage. It's called a living wage. We'll have a special report.
And later, how one California mayor is taking on what he calls "the chaos now masquerading as a border." He's our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A rising number of American cities are lifting their minimum wage and paying workers what's called a living wage. Now, the programs are partly designed to counteract the effects of low-pay, low-skilled illegal aliens. And tonight, a new study finds a four- year-old living wage in Los Angeles is greatly benefiting workers. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maria Mosqueda works for a security services company in the baggage claim areas of Los Angeles International Airport. She used to make about $7 an hour, until the city passed its living wage law in 1997. Now she earns more than $10 an hour, the minimum required of most contractors doing business with Los Angeles.
MARIA MOSQUEDA, AIRPORT WORKER: The living wage is the -- raised the standard of my life, especially right here (INAUDIBLE) you see for them. You see they got better service and better employees.
WIAN: That's consistent with a new study on the Los Angeles living wage. It found that pay increased nearly 20 percent for 10,000 workers, or about $26,000 a year for those at the low end of the pay scale.
(on camera): Surprisingly, the authors found that only 112 jobs were lost, or fewer than 1 percent of the affected positions. Los Angeles' living wage law is one of 54 that have been adopted by big cities and counties nationwide. Sixteen others are being considered.
(voice-over): Supporters say they are necessary, because the federal minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation. Another reason: The recent influx of illegal aliens.
DAVID FAIRRIS, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, UC RIVERSIDE: We made tremendous changes in immigration policy, which has brought a large number of low-wage, low-skilled workers to the United States, suppressing wages a bit.
WIAN: The study did find some negative consequences from the living wage, including minimal improvement in health benefits, higher costs for taxpayers, and reduced profits for city contractors.
ALAN ZAREMBERG, PRESIDENT, CALIFORNIA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: What happens is that we see a higher-skilled worker being attracted to it. And we don't have any increase in productivity, and we have higher cost to either the taxpayers or the consumers of those services.
WIAN: Zaremberg says living wage laws often hurt those they are intended to help, because low-wage workers are often squeezed out by the more skilled.
But don't tell that to Maria Mosqueda, who says her raise enabled her to afford a visit to her father in Mexico, for the first time in many years.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Here's a reminder to vote in tonight's poll. And here it is, "Who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in the schools? Teachers, Parents, or local school boards?" Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Well, a 13-year-old student from California has been named the champion of the Scripps 78th Annual National Spelling Bee.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANURAG KASHYAP, SPELLING BEE CHAMPION: Appoggiatura. A-P-P-O-G- G-I-A-T-U-R-A?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Anurag Kashyap beat out more than 270 other contestants for the win. He will receive $28,000 in cash, scholarships and bonds for spelling words like prosciutto, cabochon and peccavi. Congratulations to him.
Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, ANDERSON COOPER 360. And Anderson joins us now with a preview -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Kitty, thanks very much.
Yeah, tonight on 360 that runaway bride, she is back, facing a judge. Her first court appearance since her tall tale unraveled. Her fiance was by her side. We'll tell you what the judge decided.
Also you're going to hear for the first time the frantic call Jennifer Wilbanks made to her fiance. A call we now know was a complete lie.
Also tonight, new details on "Deep Throat." Woodward and Bernstein are talking, they are sharing how they came to know W. Mark Felt and the cloak and dagger world they operated in. Also they will tell us why they think Felt gave them so much information. That and more at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Anderson.
Well next, the mayor of Fresno, California, says Team America is losing the fight against broken borders. And he will give us his solution when we return.
Plus, some of America's closest friends are among nearly 100 countries trying to steal our secrets. A former national security agency director and CIA deputy director will join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: My guest tonight is called for a two-year moratorium on immigration in California. That's to give local governments time to address the illegal alien crisis. He says border security may officially be a federal issue, but there are consequences that are 100 percent local.
Well, joining me is the mayor of Fresno, California, Allen Autry. And thanks very much for being here, sir.
MAY. ALLEN AUTRY, FRESNO, CA: Kitty, thanks for having me, appreciate it.
PILGRIM: You know, you gave these comments in the State of the City Speech, which I read. State of the City, and yet a federal problem. You think it's applicable, why?
AUTRY: Well, Kitty, technically I suppose when someone chooses to cross the border illegally, it is a federal issue, I guess. But all of the consequences that follow, are 100 percent local. And every mayor in the state of California, and rapidly every mayor across this country I think will attest to that. In terms of...
PILGRIM: Excuse me, go ahead.
AUTRY: Most specifically in terms of the overwhelming of our education system, Kitty, the healthcare system. The emergency rooms are being just flooded with folks looking for healthcare, because that's the only place they have to go.
If I were them, I would do the same thing, too. If my kid gets sick. That's the only place I have to go, I'm going to go there. The jails here in Fresno County, 13 percent are illegal immigrants. And L.A. County, I heard that 25 percent and going up. You can go on and on. So all of those are local issues, Kitty.
PILGRIM: This is a bit of a numbers issue. You called for a two-year moratorium on immigration. I would like to clarify where you mean all immigration, legal and illegal or just illegal? And why two years?
AUTRY: Well, I used to play a little ball in the National Football League. And one thing I learned when things are going to pot on the field, you call a time-out. When things deteriorate to the point you just can't get it together -- I think we're here on that issue.
If I supported the closing of the borders, Kitty, like I'm being accused of by some political groups, which I knew were going to come after me on this, I would have said that. I do not support closing the borders.
But to say that we don't need to take time to call a halt, hold on, get together, come together first, and work together on a plan to address this issue, we're just going to simply be a -- swamped to the point where we may not be able to come back in this generation, economically, for sure in the state of California. So that's why I support a moratorium.
I also don't buy, Kitty, the premise that the businesses are going to go under if we have a two-year moratorium, because there's nothing in the immigration world that is going to hinge or fall or the sky is going to fall by waiting two years to get a good solid plan together that includes a guest worker program, secure borders. And I tell you, Kitty, I don't believe supporting of a secure border and pro-immigration are two opposing positions and that's my position.
PILGRIM: You waded into a firestorm. And in fact, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger of California also brought down a lot of comments when he waded into this issue. You have offered to host a summit on immigration. Who do you think should come? Who do you think would be appropriate to come?
AUTRY: Well, three entities -- actually four have to be there, local government, the government of Mexico, I will be issuing an invitation to President Fox, a representative of President Bush and the governor's office.
It's going to take all of these entities working together to come up with solutions. Because I really don't have any interest, I done think the people of Fresno, I know they don't and California and America as well to just talk about how bad things are.
We have to come up with solutions. We have to come up with solutions in a very quick fashion. Because what was once a problem we saw developing two decades ago is now on us in a full fledged crisis.
And, Kitty, I tell you, it's a human disaster as well as an economic disaster. That's what moved my heart more. I work these fields out in the San Joaquin Valley. My dad was a migrant farm worker. I picked cotton, I chopped cotton, I cut grapes. And the system worked back then.
Everybody learned English. A lot of my Mexican friends now own their own business, are multimillionaires, a lot richer than I am, because the system worked.
We have to bring a system back where those good hardworking people that crossed this border can come into this great country with their dignity and their lives, Kitty, not just their hard work ethic which is unparalleled.
There's people dying every day on that border. These coyotes that -- corrupt coyotes that take the money from these folks, leave them abandoned in trucks out on the borders. It's just a human disaster as well as an economic disaster. We have to address it.
PILGRIM: Tough situation. And thanks very much for joining us to discuss it tonight. Mayor Allen Autry. Thank you, sir.
AUTRY: Appreciate it.
PILGRIM: 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on CNN, Paul Zahn. And Paula joins us now with a preview of what she has on her show -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Kitty. Thanks for having me.
I think we have a unique perspective on the "Deep Throat's revelations. I'll be joined by actor Robert Redford who brought the story of Watergate to the silver screen in the movie "All the Presidents Men." Actually buying the movie's rights before the book was even written.
And this afternoon, I asked him what questions he would like Mark Felt to answer, the real "Deep Throat."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR: I'd want to know how -- put himself, now, together with yesterday and say, how do you feel now, against how you felt then? What do have you to say about that? First of all, I'd probably want to look him in the eye and say, is this really your doing? You're 91 years old. Is this something you had to do? Were you coaxed to do it? If you wanted to do it, I want to know how you feel now versus how you remember feeling at that time when you were carrying that secret around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Bob Redford told me how much he was struck by the duality of this man and the paradox he sees in this man's character. On one hand, being arrested for illegally breaking into offices, and then, later bringing down a corrupt government. And that's something he said he tried to get layered into the performances of Hal Holbrook. It's really an interesting look at the story, and the mystery of the story.
PILGRIM: It sounds great. I can't wait to see the whole interview. Thanks very much, Paula.
ZAHN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: And that's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on CNN.
And we also have two hour edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." He'll sit down with Deep Throat -- two men from Deep Throat's story, Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward. And, so, stay tuned for that at 9:00.
And we'll be right back in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Well, as we reported, the U.S. intelligence community says foreign spies from nearly 100 nations tried to steal our technology last year. Admiral Bobby Inman is the former director of the National Security Agency, also former deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency and he joins me now for more on this critical issue, and thank you for joining us, sir.
BOBBY INMAN, FMR. DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CIA: You're welcome.
PILGRIM: This U.S. intelligence report to me seems very shocking. How worried are you about the situation?
INMAN: Kitty, in fact, it's a story that's been repeated virtually every year for the last 25 years. We hear about it, the counter-intelligence people say we need to spend more money on counter-intelligence, and then nothing really happens.
PILGRIM: But old-hat is getting increasingly more dangerous as technology becomes sophisticated doesn't it?
INMAN: The reality is, we still hope -- happily are at the cutting edge of creating new technology. Other countries look to access that, some for their own military use, much more for commercial use. There've been a number of studies over the years -- what are the consequences of trying simply to shut off the flow, and reality is that we benefit from this being such an open society. The exchange of ideas, the ability to attract venture capital funding.
Our -- the people who want to steal our secrets are very innovative. One of my favorite stories is, some years ago, of the Russian who wrote -- wear crepe-soled shoes into a Boeing factory, wanting to pick up the cuttings of a new alloy that was being used, that they could take back and exploit it.
The best defense is an alert citizenry, looking for people who are trying to pick up things that don't belong to them or who are curious about new technology. There's a real parallel here, Kitty, with our concern for homeland security. Alert citizens who are looking for -- why are people curious? Why are they doing -- what do they intend to do with the information they are asking for?
PILGRIM: You know, this brings up a point. Do companies have to be more vigilant? And I know many have very good security in place. But we saw in a report by David Ensor earlier in this broadcast that GM has no camera phones allowed at this point. Should there be new rules put in corporate America to safeguard?
INMAN: The companies that know they have lost technology put in superb security. Those who've not yet identified that they are the victims are reluctant to spend the money.
PILGRIM: Should there be counter-intelligence coordination? Should there be -- between government and industry at this point, because so many of these industrial secrets have military applications?
INMAN: The FBI regularly conducts briefings around the country for the state, usually about the time the annual report is done, in the process, but it too often falls on deaf ears, people who don't want to spend the additional money, if they are not persuaded they're losing secrets themselves.
The other point of this, Kitty, is that probably our best defense is running faster and using the technology ourselves, ensuring we have patents and we have copyrights. The government's role is to enforce those, to make sure other countries honor and comply with patents and copyrights along the way.
PILGRIM: Well, we have such huge problems with China over intellectual property and even more worrisome still is China's military build-up. How do you reconcile that? INMAN: China's military build-up is a reward essentially for the military cracking down in Tiananmen Square 15 years. It's a steadily improving military. It's not yet a significant threat to us. If it continues at the same pace it will be, another 15 years from now. So the challenge for us is to make sure that China sees more gain on their part by being our friend than being our enemy.
PILGRIM: Thank you very much, sir, for joining us this evening to discuss this very issue. Bobby Inman.
INMAN: Good to be with you.
PILGRIM: Finally, tonight an American tourist in Costa Rica, lucky to be alive after surviving a plane crash. The crash left him floating in the Pacific Ocean for nearly 24 hours. William Slater (ph) was rescued one mile from a marina southwest of San Jose, Costa Rica. Now, he was one of six people missing from a skydiving plane that crashed after hitting turbulence. Slater said and he two others jumped from the plane with parachutes and the bodies of two other crash victims have been found. Rescuers, still looking for the other three passengers.
Here's the result of tonight's poll. Our question was, who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in schools? And the results are, 25 percent said teachers, 39 percent said parents, and 36 percent said local school boards, so that's a pretty even split.
Well, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow.
American schools overwhelmed by millions of new students -- how the children of baby boomers and immigrants are changing our education system forever.
Plus, a new book says Americans need to use their right brains more to compete in a global economy. We'll tell you what that means, and the book's author joins us.
And, in "Heroes," one U.S. Marine who stunned his doctors by surviving a bloody attack in Iraq. We'll have that full story. Please join us. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now. Anderson?
END
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Aired June 2, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good evening, everybody. Tonight, will American troops be in Iraq 10 years from now? General David Grange is our guest.
Plus, middle class squeeze, how a rising number of cities are introducing living wage laws to protect American workers.
And the escalating battle over sex education. Tonight, a special report from one community on the front line of the culture war.
Our top story tonight is about foreign countries' efforts to steal our most valuable military and commercial secrets. A U.S. counterintelligence report declares that foreign spies are eroding our military advantage. China, Russia, India among the countries accused of stealing critically important American technology.
David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Foreign spies, from nearly 100 different nations, sought to steal sensitive U.S. technology last year, the U.S. intelligence community report says, and exacted a significant cost to this country. Much of it is industrial espionage, made easier, says the report's author, by modern technology.
DEAN CARVER, AUTHOR, U.S. INTELLIGENCE REPORT: I think the big change is in how easy it is now to get at this information and how easy it is to store it, how easy it is to walk out with it.
ENSOR: At General Motors, because of security concerns, camera phones are not allowed. Top targets for economic spies are high-tech sensors, electronics, aeronautics and information systems. The report does not name names, but officials say the thieves include citizens of Russia, India, Pakistan, Iran, Japan, France, Israel, and above all by far, China.
CARVER: We realize we can't compete with China head to head on labor costs. It's our innovation and our research and development that allows us to compete. And if that is stolen and is available to Chinese companies at little or no cost, then, of course, for our competitiveness that's a problem.
ENSOR: Arrests happen almost every week, officials say, including two Chinese-born Americans arrested at San Francisco Airport now awaiting trial. They were carrying, officials say, sensitive trade secrets from four different Silicon Valley high-tech companies. At a recent conference FBI officials reached out to others for help.
DAVID SZADY, FMR. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: How are we going to stop all that? We're not. But what we need to do is get together with you, get together with the military, get together with the owners, get together with the developers, and say, how can we put a counterintelligence umbrella around this before it is stolen so that when they ping on it we know it?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: The report says economic spies are sometimes able to obtain commercially valuable data by making email or fax requests of naive American companies. The losses range from national security secrets to valuable American jobs -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. David Ensor.
Well, later in the broadcast, Admiral Bobby Inman will join us. He's a former director of the National Security Agency and former deputy director of the CIA. We'll be discussing this issue.
The Pentagon has delayed the release of the Army's latest recruiting numbers. Military officials insist there's no connection with the Army's failure to attract enough new recruits in recent months.
Jamie McIntyre has our report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the May figures are still being compiled, but they are not being released just yet, even though no one here is expecting any sort of a turnaround. The Army insists that the slight delay in releasing the May recruiting figures is not any effort to hide bad news, but rather is an effort to provide a more complete picture by releasing the figures for the Army active duty, the Reserve and the Guard all at the same time.
The Army's April figures were dismal, off 42 percent. It's the third month in a row that the Army has missed its recruiting goals for the year.
It's about 16 percent short of the 80,000 recruits that it's looking for. But nobody in the Army is denying anymore that there's a real problem, or as they like to say here at the Pentagon, a real challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL ROCHELLE, U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND: Today's conditions represent the most challenging conditions we have seen in recruiting in my 33 years in this uniform. We are faced with very low unemployment, the first time that the all-volunteer force has been challenged in sustained land combat. I believe that the total casualties are up over 8,000. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: And those casualties, the Pentagon believes, is a prime reason why parents and other so-called influencers don't want their young kids to go into the military. If you want to see why recruiting is down, look no farther -- farther than the Air Force and the Navy. Neither of them are facing any recruiting problems because they don't have troops, as many troops on the ground. But the Marines, who have troops on the ground in combat, they also have missed recruiting deadlines for three months in a row.
Now, what's the Army doing? They have put new bonuses in effect. A minimum of $5,000.
They have shortened the enlistment term. You can sign up now for 15 months or active duty or three years in the Reserves. And they are hoping that they are going to be able to turn this around before the end of the fiscal year -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Jamie McIntyre. Thanks, Jamie.
Well, three more American troops have been killed in Iraq. Two were killed in combat near the western city of Ramadi, and the third soldier died in an accident in northern Iraq. About 20 Iraqis were killed in a series of insurgent attacks today.
Jennifer Eccleston reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An explosive-rigged motorcycle detonated in a busy street in the northern city of Mosul. Iraqi officials tell CNN one policeman is dead and 16 people have been wounded.
The attack is yet another example at violence that continues to shadow large parts of Iraq. And it began this morning as diners were eating breakfast outside the northern city of Kirkuk, where a suicide car bomb ripped through a restaurant, killing 12 people and injuring 38 hours. Now, among the dead is a bodyguard to Iraq's deputy prime minister, a Kurd. Six other of his bodyguards were also wounded.
Almost 30 minutes later, another suicide bomber targeted an American diplomatic convoy. This time in the city center of Kirkuk. Two Iraqi children died as a result of that blast and 11 people were wounded.
And then the violence spread southward to the city of Baquba, some 10 to 15 minutes after the Kirkuk attack. A local government official and three of his bodyguards were killed after a suicide bomber attacked his convoy.
And the U.S. Central Command here in Baghdad also announced today that three U.S. soldiers died yesterday, two from combat-related deaths outside of Baghdad in western Iraq, outside the city of Ramadi. Now, in an effort to stem the wave of violence, the Iraqi-led Operation Lightning, involving tens of thousands of Iraqi forces and some 7,000 U.S. troops, continues here in Baghdad. It's in its fifth day. The Iraqi officials are claiming success in capturing hundreds of insurgents and a number of weapons cache, but still the violence continues throughout a large part of this country.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is off on an overseas trip to brief allies on Iraq and other issues. Rumsfeld left Washington today. His first stop, Singapore, for talks with the Asian defense ministers. And they'll discuss the North Korean nuclear crisis and China's push to modernize its military. Rumsfeld then heads off to Belgium for a meeting with defense -- NATO defense ministers.
President Bush today nominated Congressman Christopher Cox to be the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Congressman Cox will replace William Donaldson. Now, the congressman is a strong advocate of curbs on investor lawsuits.
Bill Tucker reports on the president's choice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As a champion of the free enterprise system in Congress, Chris Cox knows that a free economy is built on trust.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congressman Cox was everybody's expected nominee. Many also expected the Securities and Exchange Commission will be a very different place under the leadership of Cox. A fact that he seemed aware of as he accepted the nomination.
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX (R), SEC CHAIRMAN NOMINEE: The natural enemies of this economic marvel are fraud and unfair dealing. Congress and your administration, Mr. President, have both done their part to strengthen the laws that protect investors and our financial markets. And if confirmed, I look forward to carrying out that mandate.
TUCKER: Those who question Cox's intentions point to the Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 which he sponsored. The law restricts the right of shareholders to file class action lawsuits against companies. But shareholder advocates say any rush to judgment could be premature.
JOEL SELIGMAN, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: My sense is Cox will be an effective chair if he reassures the staff, reassures the financial community, that he wants to be a consensus builder, that he takes very seriously the integrity of the market, investor confidence. TUCKER: ox currently serves as the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. During his 16 years in Congress as the elected representative from Orange County, California, he's been instrumental in the crafting of immigration reform. And advocates of such legislation say his departure would be felt.
BRIAN BILBRAY, FAIR: We're going to miss Chris Cox. I mean, he was -- three weeks after 9/11, he was working on the concept of identification enhancement and everything else. And he really developed a lot of the strategies that other people picked up and carried.
TUCKER: But for all his history in Congress, Cox has little to none on Wall Street. Investor groups remain cautious, yet are hopeful that Cox will make a good chairman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: They point out, much like a mutual fund disclaimer, that past performance is no guarantee of future success. And they point out that outgoing chairman, Donaldson, who when he took office, Kitty, was never expected to become the advocate for shareholder rights that he eventually did become.
PILGRIM: It's interesting. Well, the times they do change. Right, Bill?
TUCKER: They do.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.
Coming up, a massive landslide. Hundreds of people still unable to return to their homes. A live report from Laguna Beach.
And the escalating battle over sex education. One community is split right down the middle. We'll have a special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In Laguna beach, California, tonight, as many as 50 houses remain in danger of collapse. That's after yesterday's massive landslide. In all, some 1,000 people were evacuated from their homes, and now there's some new developments. So Sean Callebs is in Laguna Beach with the very latest -- Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Kitty.
Perhaps you can see over my shoulder a certain degree of activity at this police checkpoint. That's because in just about 50 minutes authorities here in Laguna Beach are going to start letting a number of homeowners pass the police barricades back into their homes. Something like 300 homeowners are going to be allowed back in.
Now, the evacuation caused by yesterday morning's earth slide caused the evacuation of 350 homes. But some of those people will not be going back. Indeed, authorities are saying if you don't have to go back this evening, please hold off another 24 hours.
But there are 26 homes that have been so-called red-tagged. That means they are threatened. They're not necessarily damaged or destroyed, but they are in an area that authorities are concerned could still slide. And there are 22 homes that have simply been destroyed or damaged. Those areas are considered red-tagged, and no telling when those people are going to be allowed back in.
A couple of other items coming from a news conference that emergency officials here had within the past hour. The gas has been off here since yesterday morning. When the landslide happened, neighbors reported hearing the lines go up, the gas lines exploding.
Well, it's going to be turned back on as early as tomorrow afternoon, 4:00 local time, 7:00 Eastern. It's going to take some time, and it's going to go house to house to house.
Still concerns about drinking water in this area. They are telling residents not to drink tap water, but to boil it first.
And what about all the damage from this? These are very, very expensive homes, $1.5 million to well above $2 million.
In California, you cannot get insurance for an earth slide caused by nature. So there are a lot of people who yesterday or the morning perhaps were millionaires on paper, but are now concerned that their homes, their land could be worth nothing. So certainly people here on pins and needles.
Tempers are getting somewhat frayed here. It is a very anxious time out here in Laguna Beach.
Kitty, back to you.
PILGRIM: Sean, is there any indication that things have stopped sliding, that the topography is stable at this point?
CALLEBS: That's a very good question. Yesterday, authorities were concerned about that all day. And, indeed, there are some roads up there that are considered simply blocked off, meaning residents can't go back in.
There is still the concern that more areas could slide. We know that geologists have been up there doing work today. They are expected to come down, perhaps brief the residents up there as soon as they can on the conditions. But there's no bedrock up there.
We talked to a landscape developer today, and they said it's just clay. With all the precipitation southern California got in December, January, and February, that seeped down into the ground, apparently eroded the ground underneath, and maybe the ground only slid 10 feet or so. But it was enough in these very steep hills to cause the damage that you see behind me.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Sean Callebs. Well, turning now to a fierce battle in one American community. That's between conservative parents and public schools. Maryland's largest school district, it's Montgomery County, is scrapping its new sexual education curriculum after it outraged many parents.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, after your shirt (ph) it's going to roll the correct way, out. Roll a condom on...
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This high school sex ed film will not be seen in Montgomery County schools, nor will health teachers use resource materials that describe homosexuality as a genetic trait.
MICHELLE TURNER, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBLE CURRICULUM: We're concerned. We are concerned that it is being introduced into the schools as an indoctrination, and we feel that that does not adequately represent all the parents here that are sending their kids to the school.
ROMANS: Michelle Turner is a mother of six and the president of a group that successfully sued to keep the new sex ed materials out of the schools here. She calls the condom video silly and inaccurate and says the course might promote promiscuity and experimentation with homosexuality.
TURNER: The kid is in Sunday school on Sunday, comes to class on Monday, and the teacher is telling him that what he learned the day before is wrong, that his church, his faith, and what he has been taught in his home is wrong. The school system can't do that.
ROMANS (on camera): From this blue county in a blue state, the culture war over sex ed is spreading to Virginia and across the country, where conservative parents groups are emboldened by what's happening here.
CHRISTINE GREWELL, TEACHTHEFACTS.ORG: I think it shows the religious right has been emboldened by the election results last November. And I think they are showing their muscle.
ROMANS: Parents Christine Grewell and Jim Kennedy would like the sex ed curriculum updated to depict homosexuality as rare but normal.
GREWELL: Statistically, in every classroom, just about, there's going to be at least one gay person who needs some sort of affirmation that what they are is within normal limits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elton John did not become gay by hearing about it in a health class.
ROMANS: They say a vocal religious minority is unfairly steering school policy.
TURNER: It's not the school's place to teach a political hot topic and to take one side or the other with it.
ROMANS: For now, the school district, the largest in the state, is back to the drawing board, using its old sex ed materials. And school boards across the country are watching how this battle turns out.
Christine Romans, CNN, Silver Spring, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in the schools, teachers, parents, or local school boards? Cast your vote as LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And coming up next, Deep Throat follows the money. How Mark Felt hopes to join the long list of Watergate figures who have profited from their stories.
And then, insurgent killings on the rise in Iraq, why military experts say this insurgency may go on for years.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Bob Woodward's publisher today said the author's new book on Deep Throat will come out next month. Mark Felt also said he hopes to profit from his story from Watergate. He certainly won't be the first.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): On Wednesday, Mark Felt told reporters he plans to "write a book or something and get all the money I can." Well, why not? Felt has been keeping quiet for 33 years, watching other people make fortunes off his story.
CARL BERNSTEIN, FMR. WASHINGTON POST REPORTER: I certainly would not begrudge him making some money, given that -- especially that the critics who are saying this, most of them have written their own books about Watergate after they went to jail.
SCHNEIDER: Go to Amazon.com on your computer and type in the word "Watergate." You'll get a list of 367 books with "Watergate" in the title, most on the subject by Nixon White House insiders and journalist and, yes, ex- cons.
You can get Watergate videotapes, a boxed set; "TIME" magazine Watergate covers, framed; a mystery called "Murder at the Watergate"; even a Watergate fragrance for men.
"All the President's Men"...
PETER OSNOS, PUBLICAFFAIRS BOOKS: "All the President's Men," which was Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein's book about reporting the story, is an iconic work. I mean, it's -- you know, for some people, it's like "Catcher in the Rye." It's their sort of growing up book.
SCHNEIDER: It became a hit movie, grossing more than $70 million. Most everybody who had any connection to Watergate seems to have cashed in, except "Deep Throat." Now, at 91, it's his turn.
The Felt family's agent is seeking book advances and rights to television and movie projects. What more is there to know from "Deep Throat?"
BERNSTEIN: We had no idea of his motivations. And even now some of his motivations are unclear.
SCHNEIDER: Felt will be competing with Bob Woodward, who will be releasing his own book about his relationship with "Deep Throat" soon. We asked prominent New York publisher Peter Osnos why he thought people would want to read Felt's book.
OSNOS: To be able to see the other side, to know what it felt like to be Mark -- well, to know what it felt like to be Mark Felt.
SCHNEIDER: There are still questions out there.
OSNOS: What did Mark Felt think he was doing? If we could get the answer to that question, I think it would be one, one really interesting book.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Woodward and Bernstein sold notes and memorabilia from the Watergate investigation to the University of Texas at Austin for $5 million, minus papers that would identify Deep Throat. Those are being held at a secure, undisclosed location.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up, they're deadly, determined, and some say possibly unstoppable. We'll have a special report on the shifting tactics of the Iraqi insurgency. And we'll talk to General David Grange.
Plus, is a living wage better than the minimum wage? It's a big hit in Los Angeles. And some say it could ease illegal immigration.
Plus, the mayor of Fresno, California, is pushing a new plan on immigration reform. He says the broken border crisis can be solved by local leaders. Mayor Alan Autry will be my guest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: News, debate and opinion continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs is Kitty Pilgrim. PILGRIM: The rising number of U.S. casualties in Iraq indicates that the insurgents are using much more sophisticated tactics. The insurgents are exploding more car bombs, they're launching more suicide attacks. Well, a key question is how long they can maintain that momentum, the momentum of their attacks.
Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Experts say the Iraq insurgency centers around members of the former regime who want to retake power. They number in the thousands, but the most lethal fighters are the hundreds of foreign fighters trying to incite civil war, loyal to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
COL. THOMAS X. HAMMES, U.S. MARINE CORPS: What you have in Iraq is a variety of organizations that are very interested in taking power. Now, they don't agree with each other, but they do all agree that the United States has to get out.
STARR: Is Iraq the new Vietnam? Experts say no. The North Vietnamese had outside support from the Soviets and Chinese and appealed to much of the population.
Is Iraq the new El Salvador? For years, the U.S. supported the government there, fighting a left-wing insurgency.
Now in Iraq...
MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: You do not have essentially the whole society engaged in a broad ideological debate.
STARR: So can this multi-headed enemy be defeated by U.S. and Iraqi forces, and by an emerging Iraqi democracy? Fighting insurgents takes manpower.
TOM DONNELLY, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Because you're not just bombing people or blowing things up or destroying enemy forces in large formations. You have to pacify and secure villages and places to allow a new government to legitimate itself to take root.
STARR (on camera): The most senior U.S. military officers believe the Iraqi people are not supporting the attackers. But those officers also say it could take years to bring peace to the country.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, successful counterinsurgency campaigns often last more than a decade, and examples include the campaign in El Salvador in the 1980s and the British campaign against communists in Malaya. One former Army reserve officer says insurgencies often develop their own momentum. And writing in "The New York Times," former Lieutenant Colonel James Corum says: "People who take up arms are normally reluctant to put them down again, even if the chance of ultimate success is minimal."
Well, joining me now is General David Grange, to discuss this. And General Grange, it's interesting, this mythology of the insurgency. How would you assess it? Some overestimate it; some underestimate it classically. Where do you put it right about now?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it was a little bit underestimated after the elections. And that's because the elections was quite a blow to the insurgency. And you are going to continue to have peeks and valleys in insurgencies, where you have the insurgents had an opportunity to coordinate and resource a surge of activity. And you have that now. Part of it being supported from outside, insurgents that are coming in, which are most of the suicide bomber, those types, and then some are still loyal to the past regime. They have no future, and they either die or are captured. Some can be persuaded to change sides, but it's always a long-term event. It's nothing that happens in a quick 100-yard dash.
PILGRIM: There's been an effort to close up some of the leaking borders, where insurgents are coming across. Do you think that that's been successful?
GRANGE: Well, they have had some success, but I don't think enough pressure has been put on Syria or Saudi Arabia to support that effort, because you have to get it to source, where these people are coming from.
Suicide bombers are very hard to stop, and you have to really kill them. You cannot deter them. And so you get two today, one tomorrow, whatever. You really have to get to the source, and until that's done, the issue of suicide bombers is going to continue.
PILGRIM: You know, some argue that it's not really just manpower. It could be mind power too, that there should be an effort to embrace some of the fringe elements and bring them into the fold. What do you think of that?
GRANGE: Well, I think persuasion, to seduce the enemy to come around to your desires is fine, it's better to do that than to have to kill people, and have your people die killing them.
But again, you have a hard-core cell that are not going to be persuaded to change sides, but I think some will. And the key part is the population. If the population wanes in its support for the insurgency and supports the -- the government instead, that's tough for an insurgency to carry on without outside support. And so I think you're going to have a combination there of both that we're going to see for years.
PILGRIM: You know, Lieutenant Colonel James Corum today in his editorial suggested bringing hundreds of Iraqi security forces to the United States for training, also police to the United States for training. Do you think that would help?
GRANGE: Oh, it always helps, and you know, it's really nothing new. The time I served, we always had foreign officers from developing countries that may be in an insurgency or just finished an insurgency, in our military schools, and also in law enforcement schools. It is a -- it is a -- in the doctrine of training of their armies.
But you need a combination there. You can't just take everybody out of Iraq and send them to the United States or Great Britain or somewhere else. You have to train some in the locale of the country they belong in, and then maybe the select, the ones that appear to be the best chance to be the great leaders of the nation, you bring those over to the United States and elsewhere. But you need both.
PILGRIM: You know, we had a senior British police officer who's overseeing the training of Iraqi security in the southern part of Iraq, saying that they could have -- they could turn over operations in six to nine months to Iraqi security, and the British could possibly pull out within a year. Do you think that that's an accurate estimate of what could happen or -- and why would the British be having more success in southern Iraq?
GRANGE: Well, I'm sure it's their desire to do that. I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's going to take longer.
Now, their area is less violent than some of the American sector areas of operation, and so they have -- I think they can transition maybe a little faster, but it kind of goes against what the Brits preach, and that is it takes a while to train and set up a viable force even in an area that may be more benign. I don't think they're going to pull out in six to eight months. But they are having some success, of course.
PILGRIM: Well, we wish them every success. And thanks for joining us this evening, General David Grange, thank you.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
PILGRIM: One of Lebanon's best known journalists was killed by a car bomb in Beirut today. Samir Kassir died instantly in the attack outside of his home. Kassir was a front-page columnist for Lebanon's leading newspaper. He spoke out for years against Syria's 29-year military presence in Lebanon. Syrian troops withdrew in April, as you remember. Syria is denying responsibility for Kassir's murder, but Lebanese opposition leaders are calling for the country's pro-Syrian president to resign.
Still ahead, one American city's answer to the federal government's paltry minimum wage. It's called a living wage. We'll have a special report.
And later, how one California mayor is taking on what he calls "the chaos now masquerading as a border." He's our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A rising number of American cities are lifting their minimum wage and paying workers what's called a living wage. Now, the programs are partly designed to counteract the effects of low-pay, low-skilled illegal aliens. And tonight, a new study finds a four- year-old living wage in Los Angeles is greatly benefiting workers. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maria Mosqueda works for a security services company in the baggage claim areas of Los Angeles International Airport. She used to make about $7 an hour, until the city passed its living wage law in 1997. Now she earns more than $10 an hour, the minimum required of most contractors doing business with Los Angeles.
MARIA MOSQUEDA, AIRPORT WORKER: The living wage is the -- raised the standard of my life, especially right here (INAUDIBLE) you see for them. You see they got better service and better employees.
WIAN: That's consistent with a new study on the Los Angeles living wage. It found that pay increased nearly 20 percent for 10,000 workers, or about $26,000 a year for those at the low end of the pay scale.
(on camera): Surprisingly, the authors found that only 112 jobs were lost, or fewer than 1 percent of the affected positions. Los Angeles' living wage law is one of 54 that have been adopted by big cities and counties nationwide. Sixteen others are being considered.
(voice-over): Supporters say they are necessary, because the federal minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation. Another reason: The recent influx of illegal aliens.
DAVID FAIRRIS, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, UC RIVERSIDE: We made tremendous changes in immigration policy, which has brought a large number of low-wage, low-skilled workers to the United States, suppressing wages a bit.
WIAN: The study did find some negative consequences from the living wage, including minimal improvement in health benefits, higher costs for taxpayers, and reduced profits for city contractors.
ALAN ZAREMBERG, PRESIDENT, CALIFORNIA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: What happens is that we see a higher-skilled worker being attracted to it. And we don't have any increase in productivity, and we have higher cost to either the taxpayers or the consumers of those services.
WIAN: Zaremberg says living wage laws often hurt those they are intended to help, because low-wage workers are often squeezed out by the more skilled.
But don't tell that to Maria Mosqueda, who says her raise enabled her to afford a visit to her father in Mexico, for the first time in many years.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Here's a reminder to vote in tonight's poll. And here it is, "Who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in the schools? Teachers, Parents, or local school boards?" Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Well, a 13-year-old student from California has been named the champion of the Scripps 78th Annual National Spelling Bee.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANURAG KASHYAP, SPELLING BEE CHAMPION: Appoggiatura. A-P-P-O-G- G-I-A-T-U-R-A?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Anurag Kashyap beat out more than 270 other contestants for the win. He will receive $28,000 in cash, scholarships and bonds for spelling words like prosciutto, cabochon and peccavi. Congratulations to him.
Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, ANDERSON COOPER 360. And Anderson joins us now with a preview -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Kitty, thanks very much.
Yeah, tonight on 360 that runaway bride, she is back, facing a judge. Her first court appearance since her tall tale unraveled. Her fiance was by her side. We'll tell you what the judge decided.
Also you're going to hear for the first time the frantic call Jennifer Wilbanks made to her fiance. A call we now know was a complete lie.
Also tonight, new details on "Deep Throat." Woodward and Bernstein are talking, they are sharing how they came to know W. Mark Felt and the cloak and dagger world they operated in. Also they will tell us why they think Felt gave them so much information. That and more at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Anderson.
Well next, the mayor of Fresno, California, says Team America is losing the fight against broken borders. And he will give us his solution when we return.
Plus, some of America's closest friends are among nearly 100 countries trying to steal our secrets. A former national security agency director and CIA deputy director will join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: My guest tonight is called for a two-year moratorium on immigration in California. That's to give local governments time to address the illegal alien crisis. He says border security may officially be a federal issue, but there are consequences that are 100 percent local.
Well, joining me is the mayor of Fresno, California, Allen Autry. And thanks very much for being here, sir.
MAY. ALLEN AUTRY, FRESNO, CA: Kitty, thanks for having me, appreciate it.
PILGRIM: You know, you gave these comments in the State of the City Speech, which I read. State of the City, and yet a federal problem. You think it's applicable, why?
AUTRY: Well, Kitty, technically I suppose when someone chooses to cross the border illegally, it is a federal issue, I guess. But all of the consequences that follow, are 100 percent local. And every mayor in the state of California, and rapidly every mayor across this country I think will attest to that. In terms of...
PILGRIM: Excuse me, go ahead.
AUTRY: Most specifically in terms of the overwhelming of our education system, Kitty, the healthcare system. The emergency rooms are being just flooded with folks looking for healthcare, because that's the only place they have to go.
If I were them, I would do the same thing, too. If my kid gets sick. That's the only place I have to go, I'm going to go there. The jails here in Fresno County, 13 percent are illegal immigrants. And L.A. County, I heard that 25 percent and going up. You can go on and on. So all of those are local issues, Kitty.
PILGRIM: This is a bit of a numbers issue. You called for a two-year moratorium on immigration. I would like to clarify where you mean all immigration, legal and illegal or just illegal? And why two years?
AUTRY: Well, I used to play a little ball in the National Football League. And one thing I learned when things are going to pot on the field, you call a time-out. When things deteriorate to the point you just can't get it together -- I think we're here on that issue.
If I supported the closing of the borders, Kitty, like I'm being accused of by some political groups, which I knew were going to come after me on this, I would have said that. I do not support closing the borders.
But to say that we don't need to take time to call a halt, hold on, get together, come together first, and work together on a plan to address this issue, we're just going to simply be a -- swamped to the point where we may not be able to come back in this generation, economically, for sure in the state of California. So that's why I support a moratorium.
I also don't buy, Kitty, the premise that the businesses are going to go under if we have a two-year moratorium, because there's nothing in the immigration world that is going to hinge or fall or the sky is going to fall by waiting two years to get a good solid plan together that includes a guest worker program, secure borders. And I tell you, Kitty, I don't believe supporting of a secure border and pro-immigration are two opposing positions and that's my position.
PILGRIM: You waded into a firestorm. And in fact, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger of California also brought down a lot of comments when he waded into this issue. You have offered to host a summit on immigration. Who do you think should come? Who do you think would be appropriate to come?
AUTRY: Well, three entities -- actually four have to be there, local government, the government of Mexico, I will be issuing an invitation to President Fox, a representative of President Bush and the governor's office.
It's going to take all of these entities working together to come up with solutions. Because I really don't have any interest, I done think the people of Fresno, I know they don't and California and America as well to just talk about how bad things are.
We have to come up with solutions. We have to come up with solutions in a very quick fashion. Because what was once a problem we saw developing two decades ago is now on us in a full fledged crisis.
And, Kitty, I tell you, it's a human disaster as well as an economic disaster. That's what moved my heart more. I work these fields out in the San Joaquin Valley. My dad was a migrant farm worker. I picked cotton, I chopped cotton, I cut grapes. And the system worked back then.
Everybody learned English. A lot of my Mexican friends now own their own business, are multimillionaires, a lot richer than I am, because the system worked.
We have to bring a system back where those good hardworking people that crossed this border can come into this great country with their dignity and their lives, Kitty, not just their hard work ethic which is unparalleled.
There's people dying every day on that border. These coyotes that -- corrupt coyotes that take the money from these folks, leave them abandoned in trucks out on the borders. It's just a human disaster as well as an economic disaster. We have to address it.
PILGRIM: Tough situation. And thanks very much for joining us to discuss it tonight. Mayor Allen Autry. Thank you, sir.
AUTRY: Appreciate it.
PILGRIM: 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on CNN, Paul Zahn. And Paula joins us now with a preview of what she has on her show -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Kitty. Thanks for having me.
I think we have a unique perspective on the "Deep Throat's revelations. I'll be joined by actor Robert Redford who brought the story of Watergate to the silver screen in the movie "All the Presidents Men." Actually buying the movie's rights before the book was even written.
And this afternoon, I asked him what questions he would like Mark Felt to answer, the real "Deep Throat."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR: I'd want to know how -- put himself, now, together with yesterday and say, how do you feel now, against how you felt then? What do have you to say about that? First of all, I'd probably want to look him in the eye and say, is this really your doing? You're 91 years old. Is this something you had to do? Were you coaxed to do it? If you wanted to do it, I want to know how you feel now versus how you remember feeling at that time when you were carrying that secret around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Bob Redford told me how much he was struck by the duality of this man and the paradox he sees in this man's character. On one hand, being arrested for illegally breaking into offices, and then, later bringing down a corrupt government. And that's something he said he tried to get layered into the performances of Hal Holbrook. It's really an interesting look at the story, and the mystery of the story.
PILGRIM: It sounds great. I can't wait to see the whole interview. Thanks very much, Paula.
ZAHN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: And that's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on CNN.
And we also have two hour edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." He'll sit down with Deep Throat -- two men from Deep Throat's story, Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward. And, so, stay tuned for that at 9:00.
And we'll be right back in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Well, as we reported, the U.S. intelligence community says foreign spies from nearly 100 nations tried to steal our technology last year. Admiral Bobby Inman is the former director of the National Security Agency, also former deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency and he joins me now for more on this critical issue, and thank you for joining us, sir.
BOBBY INMAN, FMR. DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CIA: You're welcome.
PILGRIM: This U.S. intelligence report to me seems very shocking. How worried are you about the situation?
INMAN: Kitty, in fact, it's a story that's been repeated virtually every year for the last 25 years. We hear about it, the counter-intelligence people say we need to spend more money on counter-intelligence, and then nothing really happens.
PILGRIM: But old-hat is getting increasingly more dangerous as technology becomes sophisticated doesn't it?
INMAN: The reality is, we still hope -- happily are at the cutting edge of creating new technology. Other countries look to access that, some for their own military use, much more for commercial use. There've been a number of studies over the years -- what are the consequences of trying simply to shut off the flow, and reality is that we benefit from this being such an open society. The exchange of ideas, the ability to attract venture capital funding.
Our -- the people who want to steal our secrets are very innovative. One of my favorite stories is, some years ago, of the Russian who wrote -- wear crepe-soled shoes into a Boeing factory, wanting to pick up the cuttings of a new alloy that was being used, that they could take back and exploit it.
The best defense is an alert citizenry, looking for people who are trying to pick up things that don't belong to them or who are curious about new technology. There's a real parallel here, Kitty, with our concern for homeland security. Alert citizens who are looking for -- why are people curious? Why are they doing -- what do they intend to do with the information they are asking for?
PILGRIM: You know, this brings up a point. Do companies have to be more vigilant? And I know many have very good security in place. But we saw in a report by David Ensor earlier in this broadcast that GM has no camera phones allowed at this point. Should there be new rules put in corporate America to safeguard?
INMAN: The companies that know they have lost technology put in superb security. Those who've not yet identified that they are the victims are reluctant to spend the money.
PILGRIM: Should there be counter-intelligence coordination? Should there be -- between government and industry at this point, because so many of these industrial secrets have military applications?
INMAN: The FBI regularly conducts briefings around the country for the state, usually about the time the annual report is done, in the process, but it too often falls on deaf ears, people who don't want to spend the additional money, if they are not persuaded they're losing secrets themselves.
The other point of this, Kitty, is that probably our best defense is running faster and using the technology ourselves, ensuring we have patents and we have copyrights. The government's role is to enforce those, to make sure other countries honor and comply with patents and copyrights along the way.
PILGRIM: Well, we have such huge problems with China over intellectual property and even more worrisome still is China's military build-up. How do you reconcile that? INMAN: China's military build-up is a reward essentially for the military cracking down in Tiananmen Square 15 years. It's a steadily improving military. It's not yet a significant threat to us. If it continues at the same pace it will be, another 15 years from now. So the challenge for us is to make sure that China sees more gain on their part by being our friend than being our enemy.
PILGRIM: Thank you very much, sir, for joining us this evening to discuss this very issue. Bobby Inman.
INMAN: Good to be with you.
PILGRIM: Finally, tonight an American tourist in Costa Rica, lucky to be alive after surviving a plane crash. The crash left him floating in the Pacific Ocean for nearly 24 hours. William Slater (ph) was rescued one mile from a marina southwest of San Jose, Costa Rica. Now, he was one of six people missing from a skydiving plane that crashed after hitting turbulence. Slater said and he two others jumped from the plane with parachutes and the bodies of two other crash victims have been found. Rescuers, still looking for the other three passengers.
Here's the result of tonight's poll. Our question was, who do you think should control the sex education curriculum in schools? And the results are, 25 percent said teachers, 39 percent said parents, and 36 percent said local school boards, so that's a pretty even split.
Well, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow.
American schools overwhelmed by millions of new students -- how the children of baby boomers and immigrants are changing our education system forever.
Plus, a new book says Americans need to use their right brains more to compete in a global economy. We'll tell you what that means, and the book's author joins us.
And, in "Heroes," one U.S. Marine who stunned his doctors by surviving a bloody attack in Iraq. We'll have that full story. Please join us. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now. Anderson?
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