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CNN Live Sunday
New Jersey Man Convicted of Manslaughter, Receives No Jail Time; Interview with David Kirsch; Interview with Veteran Aruba Journalist Dilma Arends
Aired June 05, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Two suspects are charged tonight with crimes linked to the missing Alabama teen, but her whereabouts still remain a mystery.
Also, justice denied: a man convicted of killing and dumping the body of an 18-year-old, yet he is free to go. We have got this incredible story.
And a Democratic party chairman, Howard Dean's mouth is now causing a rift within the party. A "Fresh Take" on politics straight ahead with our Carlos Watson.
It is June 5 and you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. Our top story in a moment. But first, these are the stories making news right now.
We've got some new developments in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba. A special dive team from the FBI has been called in to help look for Natalee Holloway. And two men have been arrested on unspecified charges in connection with the case. They're expected to go before a judge within 48 hours. We've got more on the story in just a moment.
And counting the charges against Saddam Hussein: An Iraqi government spokesman says the deposed dictator will face a dozen documented cases of crimes against humanity, but he says there could be more than 500 cases brought against him. Prosecutors say they have plenty of evidence of atrocities committed during Saddam's regime. The trial could begin within two months.
A second round of voting is complete in Lebanon's general election. The pro-Syrian Hezbollah group and its allies are claiming a sweeping victory. Official results are expected tomorrow. Lebanon's election is being held region by region, over a four-week period.
And now to our top story. We are going to begin in Aruba, where there are charges today in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager. It's been almost a week since Natalee Holloway vanished on the Caribbean Island. And now local police have two suspects in custody and are making a special request. CNN's Karl Penhaul is in Aruba, joins us by video phone. Karl, does this look like a major break in the case? KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It certainly does look like a major break, Carol. These are the first two arrests that have been made in the case.
These two suspects were pulled in at around 7:00 a.m. local time in raids on two homes on the eastern edge of the island. Police are describing the two men as aged 28 and 30. Both of them, police say, were security guards at the hotel near the Holiday Inn -- that's the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying.
The frustrating part, though, Carol, is that so far, still no sign of Natalee Holloway's whereabouts. In the raids on the two homes, three cars were seized, bags full of possessions were also seized from those homes. But in an afternoon press conference Aruba's general prosecutor has said that nothing belonging to Natalee, no item or clothing, no other possession of hers has been found in any of those the raids.
The good news is, though, that these two arrestees will still be detained for at least another 48 hours. They are undergoing interrogation as we speak to see what more information police and investigators can glean from them.
In the course of the afternoon as well, I'm not sure whether this was linked directly but Dutch marines were combing a wind-swept eastern beach in Aruba looking for signs of Natalee's whereabouts. They turned up a mattress stained with blood. There was speculation that this could be linked to the case for a short while, but FBI agents that carried out tests on that blood and ruled it out of the investigation. They say that blood was, in fact dog blood, not human blood at all.
So the investigation goes on. But the general prosecutor here on the island has said the main thing is to make sure they find Natalee and try to send her home alive, send her home with her mother, an indication that security forces here and authorities here are still hopeful that Natalee may be found alive.
In addition to trying to help in the search for Natalee, police are calling on the FBI to send in a specialized dive team. They will help out searches on the difficult shorelines of Aruba, particularly in those areas where the currents are very strong, Carol.
LIN: Karl, in the music behind you just starting up, reminding us of this holiday destination that this young girl had hoped to be celebrating her final hours and days in high school.
I want to ask you, though, how big is the island of Aruba? I mean, we take a look at the search. And I understand it's a pretty small place. So what are some of the, I don't know, challenges, or should it be easier than it appears to be to really thoroughly search the island? How many places can this girl possibly be?
PENHAUL: This is a slightly surprising thing. You come to Aruba, and it's a very small island. It's only 19 miles long at its longest point, six miles wide. There isn't dense vegetation here. It's a pretty arid, pretty dry island. But the shoreline is a rocky shoreline in parts. There are wide, sandy beaches in tourist spots. We are in one of those tourist spots now. As you say, a beach party underway.
But other parts of the island are windswept, rocky promentaries and peninsulas. And also, because Aruba lies just a few miles off the northern coast of Venezuela, what that means, is on the southern edge of Aruba, that's channeling ocean currents through there, fast and furiously. And so this, according to search and rescue teams I talked to this afternoon, is one of the challenges. If somebody falls into that water, there's a potential for that person to be dragged through by the currents fairly fast, Carol.
LIN: All right, Karl, let's hope it doesn't come to that. Thank you very much, Karl Penhaul reporting live in Aruba.
Well, it's been an agonizing week for the family and friends of Natalee Holloway. Yellow ribbons now dot the hometown of Mountain Brook, Alabama, a suburb of Birmingham. And that's where we find CNN's Rick Sanchez reporting there live tonight.
Rick, what is the reaction of the folks there to these latest developments, two men now under arrest?
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been so difficult for some of the folks here, not only for the students, Carol, who have returned without one of their best friends, but also her family members who are here trying to handle things, who are in contact with the family there in Aruba.
And it's interesting you asked that question, because we posed that very question to one of the family members. It's Marsha Twitty. Marsha is Natalee's aunt. We asked her when this news broke if there had been arrests what her reaction to it and how it could be possible that Natalee could end up with these two security guards who she presumably did not know?
And she said, again, something that she's been telling us all throughout, Carol, that Natalee is a straight A student, a very responsible young lady who had just received a scholarship to go to the University of Alabama, somebody would not be with people that she doesn't know.
So at this point, it certainly is a mystery. And it's been very difficult for these students here, who have come back. They've been coming back to this place. This is a community church, where they gather every single day for a prayer vigil.
And in talking to them, we've gotten a little bit of a better sense of what have the timeline has been in terms of what happened there with Natalee. You have got to remember, they were the last ones who were with Natalee before she disappeared.
And they tell us that she did meet this young man, who was one of the persons of interest that police have talked about. And that she was with this young man on that night. The young man has told police that he brought Natalee back next to the Holiday Inn. Next to the Holiday Inn was another place, this is the Allegra Hotel that you've been hearing so much about. The Allegra Hotel is where these two security guards worked.
Now how is it that Natalee ended up back at the Holiday Inn and then somehow make contact with these two security guards? That's really part of the questions that police are trying to figure out.
As for Carlos 'n Charlie's, they have shown me pictures, Carol of them at Carlos 'n Charlie's. They even pin-pointed the young man that police have talked about that Natalee was with. And they say, yeah, that was him. He was a nice guy. He was very kind to us while we were there. He said he lived there. His father is very well- connected.
It appears at this point that police have not decided to either charge or arrest him, instead the two security guards.
But a lot of prayers, a lot of hoping. And in this community, it's all people seem to be talking about. Carol, back to you.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thanks very much, Rick, for covering that angle of the story.
Coming up later this hour I'm going to be talking with an Aruba journalist who was an eye-witness when police raided the homes of the two suspects. That interview less than 30 minutes away, so stay right there see what she has to say.
Overseas now, it's been one of the biggest insurgent hideouts ever found in Iraq. U.S. Marines say they've discovered a super-sized bunker complex not far from Fallujah.
Back in Baghdad, the case against Saddam Hussein is moving forward. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston brings us up-to-date from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): As part of a continuing anti-insurgency operation in Anbar Province, the center of the Sunni Arab resistance, American marines and Iraqi soldiers uncovered an elaborate series of underground bunkers with large stores of heavy weapons, ammunitions and supplies.
Now, it was located not far from the troubled town of Fallujah. And the bunker was found on Thursday. It was one of a dozen weapons caches uncovered in the area in recent days. There were no insurgents in the compound, but it does appear to have been recently used as there was fresh food and a makeshift kitchen. And it also had furnished living quarters, it had a show shower and it also had air conditioning.
Now, the marines spokesman said the bunkers were built into an old rock quarry and totally about, roughly a half a million square feet, making it according to the spokesman, one of the largest underground insurgent hideouts to be discovered this year, or if not during the entire war.
Now, the spokesman also today for Iraq's prime minister said the former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein will face 12 documented cases against him when he comes to court. But there are likely to be more than 500 cases against him.
Of course, as you know, Saddam Hussein heard seven charges against him during a July 2004 court appearance. He faces a litany of accusations from his more than two decades of power, including the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja. The repression of the 1991 Shiite rebellion and the 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
The prime minister's spokesman also today said that he believed the trial could begin within two months.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Another big story we're following here from the CNN weather center, severe weather shaking up the Midwest and the plains and the Great Lakes today. These dramatic pictures show a funnel cloud over Oklahoma on Saturday.
A number of tornadoes touched down across the United States. And more could be seen today. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is tracking this very dangerous weather this hour. Jacqui what's happening now?
(WEATHER REPORT)
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Jacqui for tracking that. I know you're going to be here at the CNN Center tracking all that dangerous weather for us.
In the meantime, North Korea's growing nuclear program has made many countries sit up and take notice. Is the United States ready to take it to the United Nations?
And closing the gap in airline security, what can be done to make sure the skies are safe for Americans. A new report outlines some ideas.
And a bit later, Waco and Oklahoma City and their place in the landscape of American history. A look back at the events that shaped the past 25 years here at CNN. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY. And we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: So is the U.S. ready to get tough with another member of the president's so-called axis of evil? CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Crawford, Texas with word of possible looming decisions -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you Carol. That's right, publicly the Bush administration says that it remains committed to diplomacy when it comes to North Korea, but privately, of course, U.S. officials are taking a hard look at what the next step should be if diplomacy fails.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): A senior U.S. defense official said Sunday the Bush administration could decide within weeks whether to refer North Korea to the United Nations security council for possible sanctions. But hours later, the country's top diplomat, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, backed away from that notion, suggesting it was premature.
Reacting to the defense official's comment, she told CNN, quote, "I think that the idea that within weeks we're going to decide one way or another is forward-leaning." She added, "we still believe there is life in the six-party talks."
Last week, during a news conference in the Rose Garden, President Bush reiterated that position.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That while all options are on the table, we've got a ways to go to solve this diplomatically.
QUIJANO: All along the U.S. has said that referral to the U.N. Security Council was a possibility, but the administration has been hoping North Korea's neighbors, especially China, might help push Pyongyang back to the bargaining table.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD, (D) CONNECTICUT: Without China's support, North Korea couldn't survive more than several months. And I think if we can get the Chinese -- and there's several points we could urge them, it seems to me, to become more directly involved here.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) KENTUCKY: The six-party talks have not produced the result we desire yet but we've got to keep the heat on the North Koreans.
QUIJANO: It's now been a year since those talks involving North Korean, South Korea, China, Japan, Russia and the U.S., have stalled. In that time, North Korea has said it has nuclear weapons, but experts say it's difficult to get a true sense of the country's nuclear capabilities.
KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: What we know with a certainty is that North Korea's able to produce weapons-grade plutonium. What we don't know is whether it is able to fashion that plutonium into an actual nuclear weapon.
QUIJANO: This week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will meet with Chinese officials in the region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: And on Friday, President Bush is said to meet with South Korea's president in Washington. The message for both countries, China and South Korea likely to be, that more pressure should be brought to bear on Pyongyang to return to the six-way talks -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano live in Crawford, Texas.
Now, we've got news in our "World Wrap" tonight.
Tony Blair is in Washington -- or at least he's Washington-bound. The British prime minister meets with President Bush on Tuesday. Mr. Blair, the closest U.S. ally in the Iraq war, plans to ask Mr. Bush to commit more money to Africa. The White House has been reluctant to do this.
An impassioned papal plea, Pope Benedict XVI today called for a release of an Italian aide worker being held in Afghanistan. Clementina Cantoni was abducted May 16 in Kabul.
And it will be awhile before traffic is flowing again in an alpine tunnel where a devastating fire broke out. An Italian official says the tunnel with France did not sustain any structural damage, but the temperatures were so high, the tar in the tunnel melted under foot. Two people were killed in that blaze.
Landmark events in American history, how two destructive and deadly events shaped the past 25 years of news. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Every week we like to bring you the more personal stories from the frontline. Today, a story not of war, but of terror and death in the United States, first at Waco and then later, Oklahoma City.
Here now are the CNN correspondents who covered both stories as they happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shootout occurred this morning between ATF agents and members of this religious sect at a compound.
TONY CLARK, FMR. CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were four ATF agents who were killed in the assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of people were shot on the roof, fell off the roof.
CLARK: The call from Atlanta was to get down to Waco as quickly as we could. And I remember thinking at the time, this is going to be over by the time we get there. And 51 days later is when it ended.
People would come there with binoculars, telescopes to see if they could see it. In fact, even Timothy Mcveigh at one point drove his car down and sold bumper stickers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's taking the roof off of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appears as if they're starting a full- scale wrecking operation almost.
CLARK: The building itself was made of essentially plywood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you can see on your screen there is a great deal of smoke coming out of the building.
CLARK: When we saw the smoke, our worst fears, I think, started to come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a roaring fire here.
ESSIE SLAUGHTER, CNN DIRECTOR: We stayed with the live shot, because we wanted to tell the story. The anchors at that point were not important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a mile and a half away from this fire, almost two miles really with an 800 millimeter lens.
CLARK: When the facility caught fire, the only way that we could give a description...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This fire is really rolling now.
CLARK: ...was by looking at the monitor of those cameras.
SLAUGHTER: Everyone thought this was going to be a standoff. They'd give up and come out. And that never happened.
CLARK: I think we all knew that there probably were people inside dying. I don't think that was an area that we wanted to talk about on the air. The fire kept getting bigger and bigger. And in relatively short time, it was all gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's virtually very little of the building left.
CLARK: Timothy Mcveigh was captivated, angered, frustrated, incensed by what he saw in Waco.
The morning of the Oklahoma City bombing, I was in Waco. It was an anniversary of the fire.
CALVIN MOSER, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'll never forget that particular flash of light -- very brilliant, bright, white.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've had an explosion. We need help.
TERRI SHAW, BOMBING SURVIVOR: It was so fast. You didn't hear anything. It was kind of like a whoosh, like you were just like sucked down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it may be the federal building. I'm not sure.
SLAUGHTER: Someone walked into the room and said, we got a live shot. There's been an explosion in Oklahoma.
LEON HARRIS, FRM. CNN ANCHOR: We have learned that there has been a large explosion at the federal courthouse building in Oklahoma City.
SLAUGHTER: We didn't have anybody live there. A lot of our video at the initial stage came from the stations that were there in Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We got there, and at this point, the street where Timothy Mcveigh parked the Ryder truck was still open to emergency traffic. People were yelling, people were still screaming. They knew people were trapped inside the building. It really felt like a real-life nightmare.
CLARK: I grew up in Oklahoma City. I knew the federal building. I knew exactly where it was.
Pictures tell a story, but when you actually see with your own eyes the floors that had been sheared off, the pieces of metal and concrete and office equipment that were dangling over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that's what's left of the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma city.
CLARK: This was in my hometown. And to see this in my hometown was incredible.
SHAW: It's hard to believe that a fellow American could do something like that to you.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I met Timothy Mcveigh at a prison where he was being held. He was tall. He was unassuming. He was polite. He didn't want to talk about Oklahoma City. But when you changed the subject to Waco, there was a transformation, his eyes became like fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It took just seconds this morning to bring down the remains of the Murrah Federal Building. And remove a symbol of terror and death from Oklahoma City.
SHAW: I worked in that building for so long. All of these people, it was like a small town, with all of these people that you knew. And all of a sudden, it's gone. It's just gone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That report is just part of CNN's special look back at the more poignant stories in our past quarter century. You can watch the entire show tonight, "CNN 25: Defining Moments." Begins at 8:00 Eastern. In the meantime, more on our top story straight ahead. Two men are charged in Aruba in the case of a missing student from Alabama. I'm going to talk with one of the local journalists on hand where those men were apprehended, next.
And the case of too little too late. Convicted of manslaughter, a New Jersey man walks away from any jail time. How did that happen and why, coming up.
A bit later in the show, feeling like a star? Well, two weeks in the gym can make you look like a million bucks. That's it. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Welcome Back. Here's a quick look at what's happening now in the news. New developments today in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who vanished in Aruba last Monday. Police have filed unspecified charges against two security guards from a hotel near Holloway's hotel and they've called for FBI diving teams to help in the search.
Well, the U.S. Senate may hold hearings on allegations of abuse at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The senior Democratic senator on the Foreign Relations Subcommittee, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, tells CNN hearings are a good idea. And the Senate majority whip, Republican Mitch McConnell says it's a definite possibility those hearings will be held.
And new men's French Open champ, 19-year-old Rafael Nadal from Spain beat Argentine Mariano Puerta in a slug fest that lasted three and a half hours. Well, today's match was Nadal's 24th consecutive victory, it was his first try at the French Open. He is the first man to win the open in his debut since 1982.
Now back to our top story. The search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba. My next guest is a correspondent for a newspaper on the island. Dilma Arends joins me now by telephone.
Dilma, you actually were an eyewitness to the arrest of the two security guards. Tell us what happened.
DILMA ARENDS, JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, the arrest went smooth. I mean that is one thing -- it seemed that the police knew exactly what to do, and who to look for. And obviously, they surrounded the first home. And it took a matter of minutes, they detained one man. And we couldn't see the man, as one scene was left behind with him in the house. And the other team moved quickly to the other house about five minutes away. They did the same procedure.
Everything went smooth, and -- including the search of the house. It took -- out of the second house, because we followed the second team to go the second house, they took bags with articles. And even though the police didn't want to say what the articles were, we were able to find out that one was a float, which is a very strange.
LIN: A float or flute, as in a musical instrument?
ARENDS: A float.
LIN: Something that you would float on the water.
ARENDS: Yes. Yes. That was -- that was strange.
LIN: How big was this float?
ARENDS: Well, we weren't able to see it very well. We did not see anything, in fact until we went back to the house. And we asked around. And one of the things that they took was a float.
LIN: OK. Do you know anything about these men?
ARENDS: No. At least not officially. The police doesn't want to release anything, not even -- except for the ages, they don't want to say where they work, what their professions are, what their nationalities are. We were unofficially able to find out one of the men is a 20-year-old Grenadian-born security guard, been living here for ten years.
LIN: All right. But that still doesn't tell us very much in terms of what his connection might be with this missing teenager.
ARENDS: No, exactly.
LIN: You were also noticed something -- Dilma, we have just a few seconds left. You also noticed something about the demeanor of the investigators at the news conference. As a veteran journalist down there, what can you tell about how they're handling this case, of what's really going on behind the scenes in their minds?
ARENDS: Well, what we noticed there is a growing frustration among, especially the U.S. reporters, because the police and the prosecution are not releasing any details. They're saying in general terms -- in fact when they opened up the press conference they said, we're not going to give any details other than confirming what you already know, which is the two men have been arrested.
The reason why is that the Dutch system is very peculiar. And any information, any mishaps can lead to a judge throwing the case out of court. So this is one thing that the police and the investigators want to avoid at all costs.
LIN: All right. Either they could be very close to a break in this case, or they've just got to make sure that if these guys are responsible for the disappearance of this teen, that they serve some justice.
Thank you very much, Dilma Arends. I've got to leave it there right now. But thank you very much. We'll be following up with you on this case as it develops.
In the meantime, this is news across America. Federal agents have raided a farm south of Jacksonville, Florida, which labor officials call a modern-day slave camp. Officials say homeless men and women were recruited to Evans Labor Camp, given drugs and alcohol on credit, and then they had to work in the fields to pay it off. But they never earned enough to cover the debt. Four people, including the camp's owner, face federal charges.
In Central Florida, a former professor is charged with stealing his students' identities. Police say Bradley Schlosberg and his common law wife Deborah Hoffner obtained students' Social Security numbers. They say the couple opened credit card accounts under the students' names.
And in California, the jurors in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial resume deliberations tomorrow. They deliberated for two hours Friday after listening to closing arguments.
Well, the family of a slain New Jersey woman is outraged over what they consider to be a complete miscarriage of justice. The man charged with killing the woman was convicted of the crime, but he will never go to prison. CNN's Alina Cho explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mark Ferrara is a convicted killer. A jury on Thursday found him guilty in the 23-year- old beating death of 18-year-old Rose Lorincz. Yet today, Ferrara is a free man. Kathy Lorins is Rosie's sister.
KATHY LORINCZ, SISTER OF VICTIM: He got a slap in the wrist, we got a slap in the face.
CHO (on camera): Back in 1982 when the crime was committed, there was a five-year statute of limitations on manslaughter charges. It has since then been overturned. Ferrara was charged with murder, but the jury ultimately convicted him of aggravated manslaughter. The jurors were not told he could go free even with a guilty verdict.
(voice-over): That's because jurors in New Jersey are not allowed to be told about potential sentences before they decide guilty or not. That law is still in effect today. Julie Golden, Rosie Lorincz's other sister, believes the jury would have found Ferrara guilty of murder, which does not have a statute of limitations, had they known he could walk free on a lesser charge, because it was subject to such a statute.
JULIE GOLDEN, SISTER OF VICTIM: You know, when go into court and you take the stand, they tell to you put your hand on a Bible and tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Well, I feel like they should have told the jurors.
CHO: From the time of her disappearance in 1982, until the killer's sister came forward 20 years later, Rosie Lorincz was listed as a missing person. Phyllis Ann Ferrara said her brother forced her to help him dispose of Rosie's body in the Hudson River. She says she didn't come forward earlier because she didn't feel safe. PHYLLIS ANN FERRARA, SISTER OF CONVICTED KILLER: There's no closure. There's no closure. He told me he'd go to jail for a long time and he's walking free after what he did to her.
CHO: Repeated attempts to reach Mark Ferrara have been unsuccessful, although at trial he continued to maintain his innocence. But for the Lorincz family, their search for closure continues.
LORINCZ: My sister is still not going to rest in peace, because we feel that we didn't get any justice for her. And the only thing we can think of is when we left the courtroom going to her grave and apologizing to her that we tried.
CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, North Bergen, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Howard Dean's political role doesn't always mean he's politically correct. What's got two of the most recognized Democrats speaking out about their party chairman?
And is Vladimir Putin's Russia, well, is it a friend or a foe of the United States? I'll be talking about that and more with CNN political analyst Carlos Watson, who always has a "Fresh take" on these things.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well with record numbers of Americans ready to travel by plane, the government is looking at how to keep the skies safe while keeping the lines on the ground from getting too long. CNN's Brian Todd tells us what they might have in mind -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, that is the challenge for aviation security officials as we head into the summer traveling season.
Right now, they're doing a real balancing act between tighter security and passenger convenience. And we're seeing from top officials and from passengers themselves if that balancing act is working.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): On their first plane trip since September 11, this Lezotte family isn't worried and isn't having many security hassles as they head back to Dallas from Washington.
LINDA LEZOTTE, PASSENGER: I think it is very thorough. I've been impressed. Everybody is helpful.
TODD: That's what the transportation security administration wants to hear as it comes under added pressure to improve its performance. A confidential new report from the Department of Homeland Security suggests ways that TSA can tighten security gaps at major airports and get you through check points faster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please keep the boarding passes in hand.
TODD: According to Homeland Security officials who have seen the report, it says more explosive trace detection need to be in place. This involves taking swabs of passengers and luggage and running them through machines to look for explosive residue. The report says these machines are now only in limited use at major airports but there's a more expensive upgrade called the explosive trace portal. A passenger walks through a portal; there is a burst of air. And that air is tested for residue. Only 14 airports have them. And TSA officials say they're acting on the report's recommendation to deploy more.
MARK HATFIELD, TSA SPOKESMAN: We have brought trace portals, which will now be installed at the 40 busiest airports by the end of this year.
TODD: But according to the "New York Times" the report says many overseas airports don't meet U.S. standards for background checks on passengers flying into the U.S. from abroad.
REP. DAN LUNGREN, (R) HOMELAND SECURITY: We do have a situation now where we check manifests while people are in the air. That is while the flights are in the air. There has been a suggestion that might be done at an earlier stage so you don't have to divert these flights. And you could possibly be able to identify potential terrorists suspects before they actually get on the flight.
TODD: But TSA officials say they have good collaboration with other governments over security standards and are always looking for ways to improve. One simple way to get people through check points faster according to this report? Putting longer tables in front of checkpoints to empty your carry-on luggage.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, FMR. DHS INSPECTOR GENERAL: Many of the solutions recommended are very low tech or no tech recommendations at all. They don't cost a lot of money so it is hard to believe that they haven't been implemented.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: TSA officials say they're working that problem, too, along with many others in the report. And experts say that's not a moment too soon because we are seeing passenger levels now that we have not seen since before September 11 -- Carol.
LIN: All right. All the more reason to pay attention. Thanks very much.
Well, has Howard Dean gone too far? Senator Joe Biden appeared this week on ABC's "This Week" program. He says Dean wasn't speaking for him or most Democrats when he said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay should go back to Houston and serve a jail sentence. DeLay hasn't been charged with any crime.
Dean's also getting some flack from fellow Dems for saying many Republicans have never made an honest living. Wow.
Well, Howard Dean is at the center of controversy so often he might as well camp out there. After all, how many people get a screen named after them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Then we're going to Washington D.C. And take back the White House. Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Oh, remember that? Our political analyst Carlos Watson sure does. He has a "Fresh Take" on Dean. Or Carlos, shall we say the new Howard Dean? What are you talking about?
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What if I told you, Carol, that the new Howard Dean is going to be a Republican?
LIN: I would say you're a liar. What are you talking about? What do you mean?
WATSON: Well, stay tuned here. You remember Howard Dean emerged in 2003, seemingly out of nowhere. And he did it by grabbing on to one major issue, in that case, the war. And he did it by selling a very anti-Washington tone, saying that John Kerry and John Edwards and other Washington Democrats were wrong.
Well this time around, as opposed to looking for a presidential candidate, beginning later this year and early next year, look for a Republican version of Howard Dean, meaning a populous anti-Washington candidate to emerge in one of two places, either in the South, someone who either grabs hold of religious issues, meaning the ten commandments maybe should be allowed in public places, like Roy Moore who may run for governor of Alabama. Or look for someone in the Southwest to grab hold of the immigration issue and say, you know what? I'm the real Republican. I represent the Republican wing of the Republican Party and George W. Bush and the others out there just don't get it.
Don't be surprised if we get another very populous hot candidate. But this time, they're running for senator and governor and in the Republican party.
LIN: All right. You also point out that the world's attention has been focused on places like Iraq and North Korea, but that you're seeing a white hot drama play out in Russia. What's this about?
WATSON: From Russia with love. Remember sometimes the most interesting international political dramas aren't in Iran or aren't in North Korea, but as we were saying here in Russia.
There there's incredible destabilization going on. It looks like the government's moving towards a greater level of dictatorship, Vladimir Putin, the president. And it's a surprise, given what President Bush had to say several years ago near the very beginning of his term. Listen to what President Bush had to say about Vladimir Putin at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Well, since then, this week in particular, Vladimir Putin did a couple of things. One, he sentenced the man who at one time was the wealthiest Russian to jail, in what some say was very selective quote, unquote, questionable prosecution. In fact, one of our own members of Congress, Tom Lantos of California called it a kangaroo court.
He also is trying to take over the largest newspaper. This follows on a questionable war in Chechnya. Some say that there are not only human rights abuses, but something pretty close to genocide going on. And so Russia, which is a place that we count on to be our partner economically -- remember, they're the second largest importer of oil, and frankly, the place we can't forget, still has more than 10,000 nuclear warheads, is a place that's becoming more and more unstable.
So, once again you may have to tune in to Russia and not other parts of the world.
LIN: All right. We'll be watching that this summer. In the meantime, Carlos you asked us to pull a movie clip. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL PACINO, ACTOR: Say hello to my little friend!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Can you tell me why we're watching a clip of "Scarface?"
WATSON: Not only because I love Al Pacino -- we could have pulled "Serpico." But because -- remember that was a movie some 25 years ago about the rise of cocaine not only as a drug but as an organized crime influence, but now we're seeing the Scarfaces are folks who operate around drug called methamphetamines -- sometimes called ice, tina, speed, all sorts of other things.
And what you're seeing state legislatures, by the way, not just big cities but rural states, like Oklahoma, Arkansas and Iowa start to do, is to say that when it's time to fight these guys, instead of fighting them with more police, we're asking pharmacists to help us, we're asking them to take those cold medicines...
LIN: You're kidding!
WATSON: Yeah. Remember those cold medicines, Carol, are sometimes used in order to make meth. And so what people are doing in the various states is they're saying, hey, let's put that behind the counter and only the pharmacists can give it out. And sometimes only one or two boxes at a time. So now we're deputizing pharmacists in order to fight the new Scarfaces.
LIN: All right. You got to wonder if my pharmacist is going to pack heat too. Thanks so much, Carlos.
WATSON: Have a good one.
LIN: Terrific, "Fresh Take" on all of that. You you, too.
All right. We're got much more straight ahead. So, stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: All right, you've seen them walking down the red carpet, celebrities with their tight and toned physiques. How you can get that celebrity body? Well, celebrity trainer David Kirsch's tells us in his book, "The Ultimate New York Body Plan: Just Two Weeks to a Total Transformation." He joins me live from New York -- David.
DAVID KIRSCH, FITNESS EXPERT: Carol, how are you?
LIN: I'm doing just fine.
When somebody told me that you actually trained Heidi Klum -- all right, check this woman out. She is absolutely beautiful and the promise that you make in your book is that in as little as 14 days -- what are you claiming? I can look like Heidi Klum?
KIRSCH: You -- well, I think you look like Heidi already. You look all good and toned.
LIN: That's why I have you on who my show, thank you.
KIRSCH: Pleasure.
LIN: At any rate, the claim. You talk about a two-week boot camp, right?
KIRSCH: Yes.
LIN: All right. We're going to give the information to folks on the screen. But, you know, it seems simple enough. You say get naked and assess. And then you give some pretty easy exercises to do, the squats, the pushups, the stretching, you know, you emphasize not stretching in between. When you say get naked and assess, are you asking people to be realistic about their tough spots?
KIRSCH: Absolutely. Reality is a key. And also empowerment is the key.
Look, the idea of looking like Heidi is very appealing to women out there. But you also need to be very realistic about what your goals are, and what your abilities are. And the program for me, "The Ultimate New York Body Plan," is about realizing the best you and really loving the body you create.
LIN: How do you do it in two weeks?
KIRSCH: It's an amazing process. The nutrition, the ABCs, you're staying away with processed carbs and alcohol and sugar and dairy, really leaning out, beautiful, clean fuel. Anything that swims or flies.
LIN: You're talking about like eat fish, chicken?
KIRSCH: Fish, salmon, chicken, egg whites, spinach, kale, asparagus, my protein supplements right to my right, vitamin supplements with calcium, magnesium, green tea extract, really very beneficial.
LIN: All right. And in 14 days what results have you seen?
KIRSCH: People dropped up to two dress sizes, 14 pounds, and most importantly, pounds and pounds of fat, body fat percentages go down.
LIN: How do you lose that much fat in 14 days?
KIRSCH: You're revving your body, your eating clean, premium fuel. Think of yourself like as a high-powered, high expensive car. You want the cleanest fuel. And you just burn, burn fat.
And then after the two weeks, you maintain that and you continue burning the fat.
LIN: Um-hum. Now when you say avoid processed carbs what does that mean?
KIRSCH: No bread, no pasta, no pizza, no cookies, nothing that you've got -- grains are fine after the two weeks. You've got to keep it clean right now.
LIN: David Kirsch, I feel very sad. But then I'll just look at Heidi Klum and say hey, maybe there's a promise in all of that. Thanks so much.
KIRSCH: Take care. Thank you.
LIN: All right. That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," well, we've got a lot to share with you. At 8:00 Eastern, "CNN 25: Defining Moments." 25 years of bringing you news from around the world.
At 9:00 Eastern action "LARRY KING WEEKEND." And then, I'm going to be back at 11:00 Eastern tonight, that's the time for our news program, with a special look at Michael Jackson and the jury.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 5, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Two suspects are charged tonight with crimes linked to the missing Alabama teen, but her whereabouts still remain a mystery.
Also, justice denied: a man convicted of killing and dumping the body of an 18-year-old, yet he is free to go. We have got this incredible story.
And a Democratic party chairman, Howard Dean's mouth is now causing a rift within the party. A "Fresh Take" on politics straight ahead with our Carlos Watson.
It is June 5 and you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. Our top story in a moment. But first, these are the stories making news right now.
We've got some new developments in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba. A special dive team from the FBI has been called in to help look for Natalee Holloway. And two men have been arrested on unspecified charges in connection with the case. They're expected to go before a judge within 48 hours. We've got more on the story in just a moment.
And counting the charges against Saddam Hussein: An Iraqi government spokesman says the deposed dictator will face a dozen documented cases of crimes against humanity, but he says there could be more than 500 cases brought against him. Prosecutors say they have plenty of evidence of atrocities committed during Saddam's regime. The trial could begin within two months.
A second round of voting is complete in Lebanon's general election. The pro-Syrian Hezbollah group and its allies are claiming a sweeping victory. Official results are expected tomorrow. Lebanon's election is being held region by region, over a four-week period.
And now to our top story. We are going to begin in Aruba, where there are charges today in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager. It's been almost a week since Natalee Holloway vanished on the Caribbean Island. And now local police have two suspects in custody and are making a special request. CNN's Karl Penhaul is in Aruba, joins us by video phone. Karl, does this look like a major break in the case? KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It certainly does look like a major break, Carol. These are the first two arrests that have been made in the case.
These two suspects were pulled in at around 7:00 a.m. local time in raids on two homes on the eastern edge of the island. Police are describing the two men as aged 28 and 30. Both of them, police say, were security guards at the hotel near the Holiday Inn -- that's the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying.
The frustrating part, though, Carol, is that so far, still no sign of Natalee Holloway's whereabouts. In the raids on the two homes, three cars were seized, bags full of possessions were also seized from those homes. But in an afternoon press conference Aruba's general prosecutor has said that nothing belonging to Natalee, no item or clothing, no other possession of hers has been found in any of those the raids.
The good news is, though, that these two arrestees will still be detained for at least another 48 hours. They are undergoing interrogation as we speak to see what more information police and investigators can glean from them.
In the course of the afternoon as well, I'm not sure whether this was linked directly but Dutch marines were combing a wind-swept eastern beach in Aruba looking for signs of Natalee's whereabouts. They turned up a mattress stained with blood. There was speculation that this could be linked to the case for a short while, but FBI agents that carried out tests on that blood and ruled it out of the investigation. They say that blood was, in fact dog blood, not human blood at all.
So the investigation goes on. But the general prosecutor here on the island has said the main thing is to make sure they find Natalee and try to send her home alive, send her home with her mother, an indication that security forces here and authorities here are still hopeful that Natalee may be found alive.
In addition to trying to help in the search for Natalee, police are calling on the FBI to send in a specialized dive team. They will help out searches on the difficult shorelines of Aruba, particularly in those areas where the currents are very strong, Carol.
LIN: Karl, in the music behind you just starting up, reminding us of this holiday destination that this young girl had hoped to be celebrating her final hours and days in high school.
I want to ask you, though, how big is the island of Aruba? I mean, we take a look at the search. And I understand it's a pretty small place. So what are some of the, I don't know, challenges, or should it be easier than it appears to be to really thoroughly search the island? How many places can this girl possibly be?
PENHAUL: This is a slightly surprising thing. You come to Aruba, and it's a very small island. It's only 19 miles long at its longest point, six miles wide. There isn't dense vegetation here. It's a pretty arid, pretty dry island. But the shoreline is a rocky shoreline in parts. There are wide, sandy beaches in tourist spots. We are in one of those tourist spots now. As you say, a beach party underway.
But other parts of the island are windswept, rocky promentaries and peninsulas. And also, because Aruba lies just a few miles off the northern coast of Venezuela, what that means, is on the southern edge of Aruba, that's channeling ocean currents through there, fast and furiously. And so this, according to search and rescue teams I talked to this afternoon, is one of the challenges. If somebody falls into that water, there's a potential for that person to be dragged through by the currents fairly fast, Carol.
LIN: All right, Karl, let's hope it doesn't come to that. Thank you very much, Karl Penhaul reporting live in Aruba.
Well, it's been an agonizing week for the family and friends of Natalee Holloway. Yellow ribbons now dot the hometown of Mountain Brook, Alabama, a suburb of Birmingham. And that's where we find CNN's Rick Sanchez reporting there live tonight.
Rick, what is the reaction of the folks there to these latest developments, two men now under arrest?
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been so difficult for some of the folks here, not only for the students, Carol, who have returned without one of their best friends, but also her family members who are here trying to handle things, who are in contact with the family there in Aruba.
And it's interesting you asked that question, because we posed that very question to one of the family members. It's Marsha Twitty. Marsha is Natalee's aunt. We asked her when this news broke if there had been arrests what her reaction to it and how it could be possible that Natalee could end up with these two security guards who she presumably did not know?
And she said, again, something that she's been telling us all throughout, Carol, that Natalee is a straight A student, a very responsible young lady who had just received a scholarship to go to the University of Alabama, somebody would not be with people that she doesn't know.
So at this point, it certainly is a mystery. And it's been very difficult for these students here, who have come back. They've been coming back to this place. This is a community church, where they gather every single day for a prayer vigil.
And in talking to them, we've gotten a little bit of a better sense of what have the timeline has been in terms of what happened there with Natalee. You have got to remember, they were the last ones who were with Natalee before she disappeared.
And they tell us that she did meet this young man, who was one of the persons of interest that police have talked about. And that she was with this young man on that night. The young man has told police that he brought Natalee back next to the Holiday Inn. Next to the Holiday Inn was another place, this is the Allegra Hotel that you've been hearing so much about. The Allegra Hotel is where these two security guards worked.
Now how is it that Natalee ended up back at the Holiday Inn and then somehow make contact with these two security guards? That's really part of the questions that police are trying to figure out.
As for Carlos 'n Charlie's, they have shown me pictures, Carol of them at Carlos 'n Charlie's. They even pin-pointed the young man that police have talked about that Natalee was with. And they say, yeah, that was him. He was a nice guy. He was very kind to us while we were there. He said he lived there. His father is very well- connected.
It appears at this point that police have not decided to either charge or arrest him, instead the two security guards.
But a lot of prayers, a lot of hoping. And in this community, it's all people seem to be talking about. Carol, back to you.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thanks very much, Rick, for covering that angle of the story.
Coming up later this hour I'm going to be talking with an Aruba journalist who was an eye-witness when police raided the homes of the two suspects. That interview less than 30 minutes away, so stay right there see what she has to say.
Overseas now, it's been one of the biggest insurgent hideouts ever found in Iraq. U.S. Marines say they've discovered a super-sized bunker complex not far from Fallujah.
Back in Baghdad, the case against Saddam Hussein is moving forward. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston brings us up-to-date from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): As part of a continuing anti-insurgency operation in Anbar Province, the center of the Sunni Arab resistance, American marines and Iraqi soldiers uncovered an elaborate series of underground bunkers with large stores of heavy weapons, ammunitions and supplies.
Now, it was located not far from the troubled town of Fallujah. And the bunker was found on Thursday. It was one of a dozen weapons caches uncovered in the area in recent days. There were no insurgents in the compound, but it does appear to have been recently used as there was fresh food and a makeshift kitchen. And it also had furnished living quarters, it had a show shower and it also had air conditioning.
Now, the marines spokesman said the bunkers were built into an old rock quarry and totally about, roughly a half a million square feet, making it according to the spokesman, one of the largest underground insurgent hideouts to be discovered this year, or if not during the entire war.
Now, the spokesman also today for Iraq's prime minister said the former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein will face 12 documented cases against him when he comes to court. But there are likely to be more than 500 cases against him.
Of course, as you know, Saddam Hussein heard seven charges against him during a July 2004 court appearance. He faces a litany of accusations from his more than two decades of power, including the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja. The repression of the 1991 Shiite rebellion and the 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
The prime minister's spokesman also today said that he believed the trial could begin within two months.
Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Another big story we're following here from the CNN weather center, severe weather shaking up the Midwest and the plains and the Great Lakes today. These dramatic pictures show a funnel cloud over Oklahoma on Saturday.
A number of tornadoes touched down across the United States. And more could be seen today. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is tracking this very dangerous weather this hour. Jacqui what's happening now?
(WEATHER REPORT)
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Jacqui for tracking that. I know you're going to be here at the CNN Center tracking all that dangerous weather for us.
In the meantime, North Korea's growing nuclear program has made many countries sit up and take notice. Is the United States ready to take it to the United Nations?
And closing the gap in airline security, what can be done to make sure the skies are safe for Americans. A new report outlines some ideas.
And a bit later, Waco and Oklahoma City and their place in the landscape of American history. A look back at the events that shaped the past 25 years here at CNN. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY. And we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: So is the U.S. ready to get tough with another member of the president's so-called axis of evil? CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Crawford, Texas with word of possible looming decisions -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you Carol. That's right, publicly the Bush administration says that it remains committed to diplomacy when it comes to North Korea, but privately, of course, U.S. officials are taking a hard look at what the next step should be if diplomacy fails.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): A senior U.S. defense official said Sunday the Bush administration could decide within weeks whether to refer North Korea to the United Nations security council for possible sanctions. But hours later, the country's top diplomat, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, backed away from that notion, suggesting it was premature.
Reacting to the defense official's comment, she told CNN, quote, "I think that the idea that within weeks we're going to decide one way or another is forward-leaning." She added, "we still believe there is life in the six-party talks."
Last week, during a news conference in the Rose Garden, President Bush reiterated that position.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That while all options are on the table, we've got a ways to go to solve this diplomatically.
QUIJANO: All along the U.S. has said that referral to the U.N. Security Council was a possibility, but the administration has been hoping North Korea's neighbors, especially China, might help push Pyongyang back to the bargaining table.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD, (D) CONNECTICUT: Without China's support, North Korea couldn't survive more than several months. And I think if we can get the Chinese -- and there's several points we could urge them, it seems to me, to become more directly involved here.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) KENTUCKY: The six-party talks have not produced the result we desire yet but we've got to keep the heat on the North Koreans.
QUIJANO: It's now been a year since those talks involving North Korean, South Korea, China, Japan, Russia and the U.S., have stalled. In that time, North Korea has said it has nuclear weapons, but experts say it's difficult to get a true sense of the country's nuclear capabilities.
KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: What we know with a certainty is that North Korea's able to produce weapons-grade plutonium. What we don't know is whether it is able to fashion that plutonium into an actual nuclear weapon.
QUIJANO: This week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will meet with Chinese officials in the region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: And on Friday, President Bush is said to meet with South Korea's president in Washington. The message for both countries, China and South Korea likely to be, that more pressure should be brought to bear on Pyongyang to return to the six-way talks -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano live in Crawford, Texas.
Now, we've got news in our "World Wrap" tonight.
Tony Blair is in Washington -- or at least he's Washington-bound. The British prime minister meets with President Bush on Tuesday. Mr. Blair, the closest U.S. ally in the Iraq war, plans to ask Mr. Bush to commit more money to Africa. The White House has been reluctant to do this.
An impassioned papal plea, Pope Benedict XVI today called for a release of an Italian aide worker being held in Afghanistan. Clementina Cantoni was abducted May 16 in Kabul.
And it will be awhile before traffic is flowing again in an alpine tunnel where a devastating fire broke out. An Italian official says the tunnel with France did not sustain any structural damage, but the temperatures were so high, the tar in the tunnel melted under foot. Two people were killed in that blaze.
Landmark events in American history, how two destructive and deadly events shaped the past 25 years of news. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Every week we like to bring you the more personal stories from the frontline. Today, a story not of war, but of terror and death in the United States, first at Waco and then later, Oklahoma City.
Here now are the CNN correspondents who covered both stories as they happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shootout occurred this morning between ATF agents and members of this religious sect at a compound.
TONY CLARK, FMR. CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were four ATF agents who were killed in the assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of people were shot on the roof, fell off the roof.
CLARK: The call from Atlanta was to get down to Waco as quickly as we could. And I remember thinking at the time, this is going to be over by the time we get there. And 51 days later is when it ended.
People would come there with binoculars, telescopes to see if they could see it. In fact, even Timothy Mcveigh at one point drove his car down and sold bumper stickers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's taking the roof off of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appears as if they're starting a full- scale wrecking operation almost.
CLARK: The building itself was made of essentially plywood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you can see on your screen there is a great deal of smoke coming out of the building.
CLARK: When we saw the smoke, our worst fears, I think, started to come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a roaring fire here.
ESSIE SLAUGHTER, CNN DIRECTOR: We stayed with the live shot, because we wanted to tell the story. The anchors at that point were not important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a mile and a half away from this fire, almost two miles really with an 800 millimeter lens.
CLARK: When the facility caught fire, the only way that we could give a description...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This fire is really rolling now.
CLARK: ...was by looking at the monitor of those cameras.
SLAUGHTER: Everyone thought this was going to be a standoff. They'd give up and come out. And that never happened.
CLARK: I think we all knew that there probably were people inside dying. I don't think that was an area that we wanted to talk about on the air. The fire kept getting bigger and bigger. And in relatively short time, it was all gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's virtually very little of the building left.
CLARK: Timothy Mcveigh was captivated, angered, frustrated, incensed by what he saw in Waco.
The morning of the Oklahoma City bombing, I was in Waco. It was an anniversary of the fire.
CALVIN MOSER, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'll never forget that particular flash of light -- very brilliant, bright, white.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've had an explosion. We need help.
TERRI SHAW, BOMBING SURVIVOR: It was so fast. You didn't hear anything. It was kind of like a whoosh, like you were just like sucked down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it may be the federal building. I'm not sure.
SLAUGHTER: Someone walked into the room and said, we got a live shot. There's been an explosion in Oklahoma.
LEON HARRIS, FRM. CNN ANCHOR: We have learned that there has been a large explosion at the federal courthouse building in Oklahoma City.
SLAUGHTER: We didn't have anybody live there. A lot of our video at the initial stage came from the stations that were there in Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We got there, and at this point, the street where Timothy Mcveigh parked the Ryder truck was still open to emergency traffic. People were yelling, people were still screaming. They knew people were trapped inside the building. It really felt like a real-life nightmare.
CLARK: I grew up in Oklahoma City. I knew the federal building. I knew exactly where it was.
Pictures tell a story, but when you actually see with your own eyes the floors that had been sheared off, the pieces of metal and concrete and office equipment that were dangling over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that's what's left of the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma city.
CLARK: This was in my hometown. And to see this in my hometown was incredible.
SHAW: It's hard to believe that a fellow American could do something like that to you.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I met Timothy Mcveigh at a prison where he was being held. He was tall. He was unassuming. He was polite. He didn't want to talk about Oklahoma City. But when you changed the subject to Waco, there was a transformation, his eyes became like fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It took just seconds this morning to bring down the remains of the Murrah Federal Building. And remove a symbol of terror and death from Oklahoma City.
SHAW: I worked in that building for so long. All of these people, it was like a small town, with all of these people that you knew. And all of a sudden, it's gone. It's just gone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That report is just part of CNN's special look back at the more poignant stories in our past quarter century. You can watch the entire show tonight, "CNN 25: Defining Moments." Begins at 8:00 Eastern. In the meantime, more on our top story straight ahead. Two men are charged in Aruba in the case of a missing student from Alabama. I'm going to talk with one of the local journalists on hand where those men were apprehended, next.
And the case of too little too late. Convicted of manslaughter, a New Jersey man walks away from any jail time. How did that happen and why, coming up.
A bit later in the show, feeling like a star? Well, two weeks in the gym can make you look like a million bucks. That's it. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Welcome Back. Here's a quick look at what's happening now in the news. New developments today in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who vanished in Aruba last Monday. Police have filed unspecified charges against two security guards from a hotel near Holloway's hotel and they've called for FBI diving teams to help in the search.
Well, the U.S. Senate may hold hearings on allegations of abuse at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The senior Democratic senator on the Foreign Relations Subcommittee, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, tells CNN hearings are a good idea. And the Senate majority whip, Republican Mitch McConnell says it's a definite possibility those hearings will be held.
And new men's French Open champ, 19-year-old Rafael Nadal from Spain beat Argentine Mariano Puerta in a slug fest that lasted three and a half hours. Well, today's match was Nadal's 24th consecutive victory, it was his first try at the French Open. He is the first man to win the open in his debut since 1982.
Now back to our top story. The search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba. My next guest is a correspondent for a newspaper on the island. Dilma Arends joins me now by telephone.
Dilma, you actually were an eyewitness to the arrest of the two security guards. Tell us what happened.
DILMA ARENDS, JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, the arrest went smooth. I mean that is one thing -- it seemed that the police knew exactly what to do, and who to look for. And obviously, they surrounded the first home. And it took a matter of minutes, they detained one man. And we couldn't see the man, as one scene was left behind with him in the house. And the other team moved quickly to the other house about five minutes away. They did the same procedure.
Everything went smooth, and -- including the search of the house. It took -- out of the second house, because we followed the second team to go the second house, they took bags with articles. And even though the police didn't want to say what the articles were, we were able to find out that one was a float, which is a very strange.
LIN: A float or flute, as in a musical instrument?
ARENDS: A float.
LIN: Something that you would float on the water.
ARENDS: Yes. Yes. That was -- that was strange.
LIN: How big was this float?
ARENDS: Well, we weren't able to see it very well. We did not see anything, in fact until we went back to the house. And we asked around. And one of the things that they took was a float.
LIN: OK. Do you know anything about these men?
ARENDS: No. At least not officially. The police doesn't want to release anything, not even -- except for the ages, they don't want to say where they work, what their professions are, what their nationalities are. We were unofficially able to find out one of the men is a 20-year-old Grenadian-born security guard, been living here for ten years.
LIN: All right. But that still doesn't tell us very much in terms of what his connection might be with this missing teenager.
ARENDS: No, exactly.
LIN: You were also noticed something -- Dilma, we have just a few seconds left. You also noticed something about the demeanor of the investigators at the news conference. As a veteran journalist down there, what can you tell about how they're handling this case, of what's really going on behind the scenes in their minds?
ARENDS: Well, what we noticed there is a growing frustration among, especially the U.S. reporters, because the police and the prosecution are not releasing any details. They're saying in general terms -- in fact when they opened up the press conference they said, we're not going to give any details other than confirming what you already know, which is the two men have been arrested.
The reason why is that the Dutch system is very peculiar. And any information, any mishaps can lead to a judge throwing the case out of court. So this is one thing that the police and the investigators want to avoid at all costs.
LIN: All right. Either they could be very close to a break in this case, or they've just got to make sure that if these guys are responsible for the disappearance of this teen, that they serve some justice.
Thank you very much, Dilma Arends. I've got to leave it there right now. But thank you very much. We'll be following up with you on this case as it develops.
In the meantime, this is news across America. Federal agents have raided a farm south of Jacksonville, Florida, which labor officials call a modern-day slave camp. Officials say homeless men and women were recruited to Evans Labor Camp, given drugs and alcohol on credit, and then they had to work in the fields to pay it off. But they never earned enough to cover the debt. Four people, including the camp's owner, face federal charges.
In Central Florida, a former professor is charged with stealing his students' identities. Police say Bradley Schlosberg and his common law wife Deborah Hoffner obtained students' Social Security numbers. They say the couple opened credit card accounts under the students' names.
And in California, the jurors in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial resume deliberations tomorrow. They deliberated for two hours Friday after listening to closing arguments.
Well, the family of a slain New Jersey woman is outraged over what they consider to be a complete miscarriage of justice. The man charged with killing the woman was convicted of the crime, but he will never go to prison. CNN's Alina Cho explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mark Ferrara is a convicted killer. A jury on Thursday found him guilty in the 23-year- old beating death of 18-year-old Rose Lorincz. Yet today, Ferrara is a free man. Kathy Lorins is Rosie's sister.
KATHY LORINCZ, SISTER OF VICTIM: He got a slap in the wrist, we got a slap in the face.
CHO (on camera): Back in 1982 when the crime was committed, there was a five-year statute of limitations on manslaughter charges. It has since then been overturned. Ferrara was charged with murder, but the jury ultimately convicted him of aggravated manslaughter. The jurors were not told he could go free even with a guilty verdict.
(voice-over): That's because jurors in New Jersey are not allowed to be told about potential sentences before they decide guilty or not. That law is still in effect today. Julie Golden, Rosie Lorincz's other sister, believes the jury would have found Ferrara guilty of murder, which does not have a statute of limitations, had they known he could walk free on a lesser charge, because it was subject to such a statute.
JULIE GOLDEN, SISTER OF VICTIM: You know, when go into court and you take the stand, they tell to you put your hand on a Bible and tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Well, I feel like they should have told the jurors.
CHO: From the time of her disappearance in 1982, until the killer's sister came forward 20 years later, Rosie Lorincz was listed as a missing person. Phyllis Ann Ferrara said her brother forced her to help him dispose of Rosie's body in the Hudson River. She says she didn't come forward earlier because she didn't feel safe. PHYLLIS ANN FERRARA, SISTER OF CONVICTED KILLER: There's no closure. There's no closure. He told me he'd go to jail for a long time and he's walking free after what he did to her.
CHO: Repeated attempts to reach Mark Ferrara have been unsuccessful, although at trial he continued to maintain his innocence. But for the Lorincz family, their search for closure continues.
LORINCZ: My sister is still not going to rest in peace, because we feel that we didn't get any justice for her. And the only thing we can think of is when we left the courtroom going to her grave and apologizing to her that we tried.
CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, North Bergen, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Howard Dean's political role doesn't always mean he's politically correct. What's got two of the most recognized Democrats speaking out about their party chairman?
And is Vladimir Putin's Russia, well, is it a friend or a foe of the United States? I'll be talking about that and more with CNN political analyst Carlos Watson, who always has a "Fresh take" on these things.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well with record numbers of Americans ready to travel by plane, the government is looking at how to keep the skies safe while keeping the lines on the ground from getting too long. CNN's Brian Todd tells us what they might have in mind -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, that is the challenge for aviation security officials as we head into the summer traveling season.
Right now, they're doing a real balancing act between tighter security and passenger convenience. And we're seeing from top officials and from passengers themselves if that balancing act is working.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): On their first plane trip since September 11, this Lezotte family isn't worried and isn't having many security hassles as they head back to Dallas from Washington.
LINDA LEZOTTE, PASSENGER: I think it is very thorough. I've been impressed. Everybody is helpful.
TODD: That's what the transportation security administration wants to hear as it comes under added pressure to improve its performance. A confidential new report from the Department of Homeland Security suggests ways that TSA can tighten security gaps at major airports and get you through check points faster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please keep the boarding passes in hand.
TODD: According to Homeland Security officials who have seen the report, it says more explosive trace detection need to be in place. This involves taking swabs of passengers and luggage and running them through machines to look for explosive residue. The report says these machines are now only in limited use at major airports but there's a more expensive upgrade called the explosive trace portal. A passenger walks through a portal; there is a burst of air. And that air is tested for residue. Only 14 airports have them. And TSA officials say they're acting on the report's recommendation to deploy more.
MARK HATFIELD, TSA SPOKESMAN: We have brought trace portals, which will now be installed at the 40 busiest airports by the end of this year.
TODD: But according to the "New York Times" the report says many overseas airports don't meet U.S. standards for background checks on passengers flying into the U.S. from abroad.
REP. DAN LUNGREN, (R) HOMELAND SECURITY: We do have a situation now where we check manifests while people are in the air. That is while the flights are in the air. There has been a suggestion that might be done at an earlier stage so you don't have to divert these flights. And you could possibly be able to identify potential terrorists suspects before they actually get on the flight.
TODD: But TSA officials say they have good collaboration with other governments over security standards and are always looking for ways to improve. One simple way to get people through check points faster according to this report? Putting longer tables in front of checkpoints to empty your carry-on luggage.
CLARK KENT ERVIN, FMR. DHS INSPECTOR GENERAL: Many of the solutions recommended are very low tech or no tech recommendations at all. They don't cost a lot of money so it is hard to believe that they haven't been implemented.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: TSA officials say they're working that problem, too, along with many others in the report. And experts say that's not a moment too soon because we are seeing passenger levels now that we have not seen since before September 11 -- Carol.
LIN: All right. All the more reason to pay attention. Thanks very much.
Well, has Howard Dean gone too far? Senator Joe Biden appeared this week on ABC's "This Week" program. He says Dean wasn't speaking for him or most Democrats when he said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay should go back to Houston and serve a jail sentence. DeLay hasn't been charged with any crime.
Dean's also getting some flack from fellow Dems for saying many Republicans have never made an honest living. Wow.
Well, Howard Dean is at the center of controversy so often he might as well camp out there. After all, how many people get a screen named after them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Then we're going to Washington D.C. And take back the White House. Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Oh, remember that? Our political analyst Carlos Watson sure does. He has a "Fresh Take" on Dean. Or Carlos, shall we say the new Howard Dean? What are you talking about?
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What if I told you, Carol, that the new Howard Dean is going to be a Republican?
LIN: I would say you're a liar. What are you talking about? What do you mean?
WATSON: Well, stay tuned here. You remember Howard Dean emerged in 2003, seemingly out of nowhere. And he did it by grabbing on to one major issue, in that case, the war. And he did it by selling a very anti-Washington tone, saying that John Kerry and John Edwards and other Washington Democrats were wrong.
Well this time around, as opposed to looking for a presidential candidate, beginning later this year and early next year, look for a Republican version of Howard Dean, meaning a populous anti-Washington candidate to emerge in one of two places, either in the South, someone who either grabs hold of religious issues, meaning the ten commandments maybe should be allowed in public places, like Roy Moore who may run for governor of Alabama. Or look for someone in the Southwest to grab hold of the immigration issue and say, you know what? I'm the real Republican. I represent the Republican wing of the Republican Party and George W. Bush and the others out there just don't get it.
Don't be surprised if we get another very populous hot candidate. But this time, they're running for senator and governor and in the Republican party.
LIN: All right. You also point out that the world's attention has been focused on places like Iraq and North Korea, but that you're seeing a white hot drama play out in Russia. What's this about?
WATSON: From Russia with love. Remember sometimes the most interesting international political dramas aren't in Iran or aren't in North Korea, but as we were saying here in Russia.
There there's incredible destabilization going on. It looks like the government's moving towards a greater level of dictatorship, Vladimir Putin, the president. And it's a surprise, given what President Bush had to say several years ago near the very beginning of his term. Listen to what President Bush had to say about Vladimir Putin at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Well, since then, this week in particular, Vladimir Putin did a couple of things. One, he sentenced the man who at one time was the wealthiest Russian to jail, in what some say was very selective quote, unquote, questionable prosecution. In fact, one of our own members of Congress, Tom Lantos of California called it a kangaroo court.
He also is trying to take over the largest newspaper. This follows on a questionable war in Chechnya. Some say that there are not only human rights abuses, but something pretty close to genocide going on. And so Russia, which is a place that we count on to be our partner economically -- remember, they're the second largest importer of oil, and frankly, the place we can't forget, still has more than 10,000 nuclear warheads, is a place that's becoming more and more unstable.
So, once again you may have to tune in to Russia and not other parts of the world.
LIN: All right. We'll be watching that this summer. In the meantime, Carlos you asked us to pull a movie clip. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL PACINO, ACTOR: Say hello to my little friend!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Can you tell me why we're watching a clip of "Scarface?"
WATSON: Not only because I love Al Pacino -- we could have pulled "Serpico." But because -- remember that was a movie some 25 years ago about the rise of cocaine not only as a drug but as an organized crime influence, but now we're seeing the Scarfaces are folks who operate around drug called methamphetamines -- sometimes called ice, tina, speed, all sorts of other things.
And what you're seeing state legislatures, by the way, not just big cities but rural states, like Oklahoma, Arkansas and Iowa start to do, is to say that when it's time to fight these guys, instead of fighting them with more police, we're asking pharmacists to help us, we're asking them to take those cold medicines...
LIN: You're kidding!
WATSON: Yeah. Remember those cold medicines, Carol, are sometimes used in order to make meth. And so what people are doing in the various states is they're saying, hey, let's put that behind the counter and only the pharmacists can give it out. And sometimes only one or two boxes at a time. So now we're deputizing pharmacists in order to fight the new Scarfaces.
LIN: All right. You got to wonder if my pharmacist is going to pack heat too. Thanks so much, Carlos.
WATSON: Have a good one.
LIN: Terrific, "Fresh Take" on all of that. You you, too.
All right. We're got much more straight ahead. So, stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: All right, you've seen them walking down the red carpet, celebrities with their tight and toned physiques. How you can get that celebrity body? Well, celebrity trainer David Kirsch's tells us in his book, "The Ultimate New York Body Plan: Just Two Weeks to a Total Transformation." He joins me live from New York -- David.
DAVID KIRSCH, FITNESS EXPERT: Carol, how are you?
LIN: I'm doing just fine.
When somebody told me that you actually trained Heidi Klum -- all right, check this woman out. She is absolutely beautiful and the promise that you make in your book is that in as little as 14 days -- what are you claiming? I can look like Heidi Klum?
KIRSCH: You -- well, I think you look like Heidi already. You look all good and toned.
LIN: That's why I have you on who my show, thank you.
KIRSCH: Pleasure.
LIN: At any rate, the claim. You talk about a two-week boot camp, right?
KIRSCH: Yes.
LIN: All right. We're going to give the information to folks on the screen. But, you know, it seems simple enough. You say get naked and assess. And then you give some pretty easy exercises to do, the squats, the pushups, the stretching, you know, you emphasize not stretching in between. When you say get naked and assess, are you asking people to be realistic about their tough spots?
KIRSCH: Absolutely. Reality is a key. And also empowerment is the key.
Look, the idea of looking like Heidi is very appealing to women out there. But you also need to be very realistic about what your goals are, and what your abilities are. And the program for me, "The Ultimate New York Body Plan," is about realizing the best you and really loving the body you create.
LIN: How do you do it in two weeks?
KIRSCH: It's an amazing process. The nutrition, the ABCs, you're staying away with processed carbs and alcohol and sugar and dairy, really leaning out, beautiful, clean fuel. Anything that swims or flies.
LIN: You're talking about like eat fish, chicken?
KIRSCH: Fish, salmon, chicken, egg whites, spinach, kale, asparagus, my protein supplements right to my right, vitamin supplements with calcium, magnesium, green tea extract, really very beneficial.
LIN: All right. And in 14 days what results have you seen?
KIRSCH: People dropped up to two dress sizes, 14 pounds, and most importantly, pounds and pounds of fat, body fat percentages go down.
LIN: How do you lose that much fat in 14 days?
KIRSCH: You're revving your body, your eating clean, premium fuel. Think of yourself like as a high-powered, high expensive car. You want the cleanest fuel. And you just burn, burn fat.
And then after the two weeks, you maintain that and you continue burning the fat.
LIN: Um-hum. Now when you say avoid processed carbs what does that mean?
KIRSCH: No bread, no pasta, no pizza, no cookies, nothing that you've got -- grains are fine after the two weeks. You've got to keep it clean right now.
LIN: David Kirsch, I feel very sad. But then I'll just look at Heidi Klum and say hey, maybe there's a promise in all of that. Thanks so much.
KIRSCH: Take care. Thank you.
LIN: All right. That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," well, we've got a lot to share with you. At 8:00 Eastern, "CNN 25: Defining Moments." 25 years of bringing you news from around the world.
At 9:00 Eastern action "LARRY KING WEEKEND." And then, I'm going to be back at 11:00 Eastern tonight, that's the time for our news program, with a special look at Michael Jackson and the jury.
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