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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Helicopter Crash; California Earthquake; Marines in Karbala

Aired June 17, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, this is a life picture of the East River. New York City, a helicopter has gone down in this river, the second time this week. CNN's Mary Snow standing by collecting information. I know it's sketchy, Mary. What do we know?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, at this time, what we know is that reports are saying that this helicopter is underwater. And that passengers are being pulled out. This is from the Associated Press.

As you can see, some of these aerial shots from our affiliate here in New York, WABC. We are seeing several rescue crews on the scene. And WABC reporting at least one person being pulled out of the water.

The New York City Fire Department saying it is believed that five people are on board. And as we just mentioned, this is the second helicopter accident in one week.

Earlier this week, a helicopter with seven passengers went down near Wall Street. This is near the U.N. area. And traffic being stopped right now on the nearby FDR Drive -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We're getting other information, Mary, from the Associated Press. A police spokesman saying five or six people believed to have been on board. Preliminary reports, according to the Associated Press, all the people aboard are out of the aircraft and accounted for. No reports of injuries. But the helicopter, as you've reported, is submerged in the East River.

This helicopter crash in the East River just south of the United Nations. Once again, the second helicopter accident in four days in the waters off of Manhattan.

Mary, I take it there are several helipads along that area on the east side of the Manhattan?

SNOW: There are, Wolf. On that east side, two of the more popular ones are the ones you're looking at right now right near the United Nations. Another popular one is that Wall Street heliport where we saw this accident earlier in the week that had seven people on board, one had been seriously injured in that incident.

As you can see now, these details pretty sketchy, just because it has happened so quickly. But you can see the divers going in. There are reports the helicopter is totally submerged.

BLITZER: Mary, what's the weather like in New York today? My understanding was it was pretty good, just hot.

SNOW: Absolutely. And not as hot as it was earlier in the week. Skies appear to be pretty clear. So it does not seem that weather would have had any involvement in this.

BLITZER: Helicopters are pretty common in getting in and out of Manhattan, given the enormous traffic problems in that small island. What kind of helicopter safety record is there, based on what you've known over the years?

SNOW: Well, Wolf, the helicopter accident that we had earlier this week, the one that went down near Wall Street, had been the first one in a number of years. So, best of my knowledge.

As you mentioned, this is rush hour, Friday, heading into the summer and there are a number of choppers, whether they be, you know, commuters going in and out of the city, choppers being hired by corporations or in some cases, tourist choppers.

BLITZER: There is tourists, there's commuters. Also, it seems to be for many wealthy people a sort of preferred method of transportation to get out of Manhattan to avoid the rush hour to fly off to the Hamptons on Long Island or some other country home they might have.

So, we have no idea what kind of helicopter this was. But we do know based on what preliminary reports are suggesting, the five or six people in that helicopter are believed to be out of the water. They seem to be OK. At least according to the Associated Press, we're quoting a police spokesman.

But we're getting more information -- actually, as I speak, we're getting more information from the Associated Press that there are no immediate reports of any injuries, although we do see some people being treated on the side there.

This is the east side of Manhattan, just below the United Nations. It's a very, very active and busy area, Mary.

SNOW: And we are just getting this information in now, Wolf, that there are four people on the stretchers. And according to some preliminary reports, the search continues.

What we do see, as you can see from the aerial shots from WABC, four people being treated right now on the scene.

As you mentioned, the fire department of New York is saying it is believed that there are five people on board that chopper.

BLITZER: We see people being treated there along the side, but we don't know exactly what's going on. In fact, the information is slow in coming.

But we do see the stretchers there, we see some blankets that have been put down, presumably some of those who have recovered from this helicopter that's gone down, the second helicopter to go down within four days in the East River on the east side of Manhattan. It happened only within the past few minutes. And these are live pictures that we're getting from our affiliates in New York City.

Fire and rescue workers on the scene. It didn't take very long for them to get there. But we see that some of those rescued are being treated right now.

The divers along the side at some point, assuming this helicopter has completely gone down, the divers will have their work cut out for them to get this helicopter out of the water to try to determine what precisely happened.

I think Mary Snow is gathering more information as we speak right now. Let me just recap for viewers who may be just be tuning in at the top of the hour. A helicopter has gone down in the East River in Manhattan, the second helicopter to go down under suspicious circumstances. But we don't know if there were mechanical problems, what are -- pilot -- pilot error, what the situation is.

We don't know who was in this helicopter. But we are told that four or five people who were inside, four people were seen to be on stretchers, as you can see -- at least you saw a few moments ago -- on the dock where they were rescued. And we're getting these pictures and the information in from our affiliates from local police and other rescue workers on the scene. You can see what's going on over there.

Mary, what else are you learning?

SNOW: We are learning, Wolf, that WABC is showing several rescue crews. We've seen, as you said, about four people being treated on the stretcher. This is right near the United Nations. Alongside what is usually a very busy highway, especially around this time of day on the East River Drive.

As you can see, more rescue teams going in there. The incident apparently reported at 4:42 p.m. this afternoon. And this gaining so much attention, again, because it is the second chopper crash we have seen this week. Earlier this week, there was a chopper with seven people on board, one had been seriously injured.

So, details pretty sketchy. We don't know what kind of chopper this was. And as we're repeating again, the fire department believes that there were five people on board.

BLITZER: Five people on board. But we see four stretchers out there. So, presumably these people are being treated along the dock over there where the rescue workers, the fire workers have gathered. Spectators beginning to arrive as well. Police trying to move traffic along that road over there near the United Nations.

This helicopter could have gone down simply for numerous reasons whether mechanical or pilot error or other reasons. We don't know if it was a tourist helicopter, a corporate helicopter, a commuter helicopter. We have no information on that yet. But we're trying to gather as much information as we can. We see other police helicopters flying overhead. These pictures, these are live pictures courtesy of our affiliates in New York City. We're trying to get different angles to try to learn more what's going on. But this is the east side of Manhattan where this rescue operation is continuing.

It's only a few minutes old. The helicopter accident apparently occurred at 3:41 p.m. five or six people on board and no reports of injuries right now. Although the AP was reporting, quoting a police spokesman earlier that all of the people on that helicopter have been brought ashore.

Mary, what else are you learning?

SNOW: Information still sketchy, Wolf. But we are finding out that this incident apparently was reported to police around 4:42, which would have just been about a half hour ago. As you can see, all the rescue choppers have been coming in, boats and divers at the scene.

And as you can see, traffic pretty much stopped northbound. There's a main artery in New York City along the FDR Drive. What normally would be a very busy time on a Friday in afternoon rush hour.

BLITZER: Five people, do we believe on board, Mary, or four? Because we have seen four people on stretchers on the dock.

SNOW: Right. The fire department is saying it's believed that there are five people on board. It is not clear whether or not that included the pilot.

So, we are seeing those four stretchers out. And what we have heard is that this chopper had been completely submerged, according to reports from the scene.

BLITZER: So I assume they've shut down the FDR. It looked at least in that last shot that we had as if there were no cars moving. They shut down the FDR, that highway along the east side of Manhattan. That's a pretty significant jolt on a Friday when workers and others are trying to escape Manhattan.

SNOW: Yeah, absolutely. Traffic going north is the lane you're just seeing over there, had been stopped as police came here.

BLITZER: It looks like this is the rescue operation, we see that tugboat over there already involved. And other workers, fire workers, rescue workers, police -- New York City is well prepared for these kinds of incidents as well all know, especially after 9/11. The first responders in New York City among the best in the world. They are trained to handle these kinds of emergencies, these kinds of crises. They've had a lot worse on their hands as we all know over these past few years.

There's no doubt, though, that the second helicopter crash in the East River within only four days is going to raise alarm bells among many New Yorkers and others, what's going on? Is this just a fluke? Or is there some structural problem, some serious problem involving the helicopter traffic in New York City? And I don't know the answer, obviously, to that question, Mary. I don't know, you live in New York. In the aftermath of the first helicopter crash earlier in the week in the same river, the East River, further south, though, near Wall Street, what are they saying in New York City?

SNOW: Well, certainly this is going to raise more questions. And, you know, a couple of years ago, Wolf, there had been a tourist chopper that had gone down in New York, and certainly that raised a lot of safety questions about some of these choppers that were going out.

I also wanted to point out, you mentioned about the police presence. This is just south of the U.N. headquarters, and this is a heavily guarded area, one of the most security-conscious in New York. So police already in that area on the scene because of what is always security patrol.

So whether or not that played an effect into the fast response to this accident, not quite sure, but you know, this is an area that is very heavily trafficked.

BLITZER: And I just want to caution all of our viewers, preliminary reports in these kinds of situations are often wrong. Information could be very, very misleading, based on preliminary reports. Not only in a situation like this, a helicopter crash in the East River in Manhattan, but military incidents, usually first reports tend to be wrong in some critical areas. So we'll just have to wait and see.

But let me just recap -- for the second time in a week, a helicopter has crashed in the East River in Manhattan, according to a New York City Police spokeswoman. Fire Department spokesman says five people on board. It wasn't clear whether this included the pilot. Four people were seen on stretchers on the dock, receiving treatment.

The incident occurred just south of the United Nations headquarters. Was reported to the department by 4:40 -- at 4:42 p.m. That's a little bit, about a half hour or so ago.

Miles O'Brien is a pilot and our CNN anchor, and knows something about these kinds of situations. Miles, what does it look like, based on the sketchy information we're getting right now?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's hard to say. You know, you've got to be careful jumping to speculation and jumping to conclusions at this point. But it appears that the flotation devices, which would have undoubtedly been installed on that helicopter, were not activated. So that means that possibly the pilot did not realize that there was some sort of problem, in time in order to activate those things.

What I'm talking about are essentially -- it's a lot like an airbag in a car, essentially, that inflates on the pods. And any helicopter that flies around New York City over water has to have these, legally, in order to fly over the water as a safety measure. You'll recall last week, that helicopter that went down strangely parallel type of incident, that the flotation devices did, in fact, inflate. And that made it possible for everybody to get out of that helicopter.

As you know, Wolf, I mean, the city is a beehive of helicopters. And there's a helipad at 34th Street, which -- there's a good chance this helicopter was going to or fro to that location. And it's a very, very congested place. Helicopters go in there, they land, they're kind of cheek to jowl. I'm always impressed with the ability of the pilots there to do their job. And, you know, if not done properly, it's a very hazardous operation.

BLITZER: Have you ever, Miles, flown a helicopter into New York City?

O'BRIEN: No, I have not. I wouldn't even dare. You wouldn't want me doing that.

BLITZER: Well, have you ever been in a helicopter that's landed in New York City?

O'BRIEN: Yes, I have. And I am impressed with their ability to just get those helicopters down on those tiny little postage stamps of concrete. I know you've had the opportunity to spend a lot of time in helicopters, as well, and you know, there's only one approach to these helipads, wherever they are. And if there's, you know, funny winds and so forth, you can't come in from the favorable direction, and so I don't know the weather situation there at that moment, but the fact is, you have to have a lot of skill in order to safely do that. And on top of that, what you have is, you know, a very busy traffic environment, as well.

BLITZER: I've flown in. I haven't flown, but I've been in a helicopter that's landed on the East Side of Manhattan. On several occasions when I was CNN's White House correspondent, often the then President Bill Clinton would fly in Marine One from one of the airports, whether Kennedy or LaGuardia, into Manhattan on a helicopter.

He would land in that helicopter; I would be in a backup helicopter where the press pool, as we called it, would land, and I was always amazed how tiny the helipads were and what a small margin of error there could be for a pilot to have to touch down, to bring down that helicopter in a relatively small space, because if you misjudge the helicopter, Miles, as you well know, the helipad, at all, you're going to land in the water or you're going to land someplace you don't want to land. You really need an enormous amount of skill to land a helicopter in a congested area like Manhattan.

O'BRIEN: I am very impressed with their skills. And what you say is correct. And when you've done it, you will -- if you don't know much about it, you'll be holding your breath as they come down in those little spots. And yet, frequently, you're landing, you know, between two helicopters with their rotor blades spinning. What seems to be just a matter of inches separating all those rotor blades. There was an early report on last week's incident -- of course, it's too early to say for sure, but that somehow one of the rotor blades touched something else. And that kind of situation in those tight quarters doesn't surprise me too much. As a matter of fact, it kind of surprises me it doesn't happen more often, given the tight constraints that these pilots operate under.

BLITZER: I think Mary Snow -- Miles, stand by for a moment -- Mary Snow, our reporter in New York, is getting additional information. Mary, what are you getting?

SNOW: Well, Wolf, we had been reporting that the Fire Department had believed five people were on board. The Associated Press, quoting the New York City Police Department, is saying that six people were aboard when the accident occurred. That's putting the timeline around 4:41 this afternoon.

Preliminary reports, according to the Associated Press, that all people aboard were out of the aircraft and accounted for -- that is according to the Associated Press. Several calls going in now -- the Fire Department of New York is saying that some of the injured, or some of the people have been taken out of this helicopter have been taken to Bellevue Hospital, which is also on the East Side of Manhattan, not far from where this accident occurred. This accident occurred just south of the United Nations headquarters, along the FDR Drive on the East River of New York.

In terms of the extent of any injuries, that is not yet clear. We're still trying to gather information from both the police and fire department of New York City, but according to the Associated Press, New York City Police saying six people were on board. The fire department had told us earlier they believed five people were on board, but they were not sure if that included the pilot.

BLITZER: And we did see at least one person on a stretcher being treated with a neck brace. And as you point out, being taken, we believe, to the Bellevue Hospital on East Side of Manhattan. This incident, only about 10 blocks, Miles, from that helipad earlier in the week we reported -- and it was seen live here on CNN -- the aftermath of that sight-seeing helicopter that made a hard landing, what was called a hard landing in the East River, taking off from a further area, Wall Street heliport in lower Manhattan.

This is a different kind of situation, we suspect, a hard landing as opposed to -- as opposed to this helicopter incident right now.

Our affiliate WABC, Miles and Mary, is broadcasting live. Let's listen into their coverage and see what they have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Desperately getting these people onto stretchers, getting them out of the river, and then taking them to -- into the waiting ambulances. But a very dramatic rescue scene. It was all happening as we arrived. And let's go back over to the ambulance right there, Dave, if you can.

You can see a man in there kind of -- he's talking to a man and describing what happened. You can see him kind of moving his arms, so the three people, the three men we saw all in kind of business attire, all seem to be conscious, alive, moving their arms and talking, except for the one man who had his hand bandaged, he had some blood on his shirt. But of course, if we can break away for a moment, we will go and try to figure out, try to talk to some of the police and the paramedics and the rescuers who were here on scene and get right back to you.

DIANA WILLIAMS, WABC ANCHOR: Nina, Nina, before you go, real quickly, all men that you have seen so far, men in business suits? Is that what you're seeing at this point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Diana, the three people that they had cut -- they cut that hole through the fence, and the three people they took out were all men. They said they were blinking their eyes and they were talking, they were moving around. They had one man on a stretcher that they took -- they kind of seemed to take him in one direction, and then take him back the other way. So it didn't seem like there was too much urgency to get him into an ambulance. He was moving around and talking to them.

But of course, there is so much personnel here on the scene. And I think they had some trouble accessing the river, because they had to cut a hole, a wide hole in the fence and actually pass the stretchers through that hole. And it took about eight or nine men and women, paramedics, FDNY, EMS to get the people out and into the waiting ambulances.

WILLIAMS: Nina, we've just learned that actually two of the patients were taken to Bellevue Hospital.

I know you just arrived there on the scene, but what are people saying about what they actually saw happen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. You know, I was trying to listen in as the police were trying to keep us back, because we couldn't believe how close we actually got. We were five feet away as they were bringing the victims on the stretchers past us. And one of them was talking. I was trying to listen to what he was saying about how the chopper may have gone down.

But they were all wet. One man was bleeding. And of course, the concern of the police here was to keep the media back, keep the press back so that they could get the stretchers right away into the waiting ambulances. And they haven't left the scene actually.

But you can see they are now shutting the -- Dave One, should go over to -- back to the ambulance and show they just the doors on that ambulance from where that man was moving his hands and trying to describe what happened. So that one should get ready to go.

I'm still waiting to see if they bring some other people out (INAUDIBLE) They just shut the doors on that ambulance from where that man was trying to describe what happened. So that one should get ready to go. I'm still waiting to see if they bring other people out. WILLIAMS: Well, Nina, we're going to let you go do your job there, gather information, talk to witnesses and report back to us as quickly as you can. We do understand, Nina, just to give you a heads- up that a ninth person...

BLITZER: All right. So there are conflicting reports whether there were seven people on board this helicopter or eight people on board this helicopter. We're getting conflicting information. That's not unusual in a developing story like this, preliminary reports often are sketchy. We're trying to get precise information.

Some authorities saying there were eight people on board. Others saying seven, some saying earlier six.

Mary Snow, I know you're watching this. You're in New York right now. From authorities, police and fire authorities, what's the latest information you're getting? How many people were on board the helicopter? And have they all been rescued and are being treated at a local hospital?

SNOW: From the fire department of New York, Wolf, we're getting word that there were eight people on board this helicopter, two of them pilots, six of them passengers. The fire department saying that some of these people, the passengers, are being taken to Bellview Hospital as we just heard in that report there.

According to the Associated Press, preliminary reports, these are preliminary reports accounting that all people on board this aircraft had been accounted for. Again, there had been some discrepancy about how many people were on board that chopper. We still don't know what kind of helicopter it was or where it was going. But the fire department saying now eight people on board, two of them pilots, six passengers.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien is watching this with us, as well. Miles himself a pilot, an authority on these kinds of matters. You mentioned earlier, Miles, that the flotation device on the helicopter may not have been activated as a result, this helicopter has been submerged, is underwater right now. Tell our viewers what that flotation device is capable of doing.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's -- a couple things to think about here. First of all, as I've been listening, Wolf, the possibility is very distinct here that this was probably some sort of corporate helicopter mission involving businessmen or businesswomen. And that it's -- it's quite it might have been a twin engine helicopter with retractable gear, for example, retractable landing gear. And in which case, that would not necessarily have that equipment on board, because with two engines, it is not deemed necessary to have that flotation device.

But backing up to that previous incident which involved sight seeing helicopter with a standard fixed skids underneath the single engine of a helicopter, those devices are not unlike an air bag. You know, kind of in the wheel of your car that inflate rapidly when the pilot deems that he's going to have to make a water landing. It's not a great floating craft when it's on the water, but it does buy you some time on the surface. And that's what helped in that previous case.

Now, in this case, there might have been an entirely different scenario here that led to this. So it's kind of early it make collusions like that. But there's no evidence -- since there's nothing floating on the surface, we can say that certainly they were not deployed. Were they there, it's another question.

BLITZER: Well, we see this diver coming out of the water on this ladder on the dock right there. Presumably, he or she went down to look to see if they could find the helicopter at the bottom of the East River, which we know is a dirty river, not necessarily the most pleasant place to go for a swim. But how deep would you suspect, Miles, the water would be in the East River where this helicopter might be at the bottom?

O'BRIEN: You know, I honestly don't know the depth of the East River. I know it's really not -- it's actually not technically a river, it's more ever an estuary. It flows in both directions with the tides depending. And it's kind of just an extension of Jamaica Bay there, really more than anything. So, it's, you know, it's salty, murky water. And it would not be ideal conditions for those divers. But that's what they're trained to go, they're trained to go in there, literally, in zero visibility situations and try to perform rescues. So the best we can hope is that everybody's out.

BLITZER: Mary, is it your sense, based on the information that you're getting, that everyone on that helicopter has, in fact, been rescued? And that there are no more people inside the helicopter?

SNOW: Well Wolf, the latest information we're getting from the New York City Fire Department and our producer, Lauren Rivera who is at the scene, is that two people have been taken to Bellview Hospital for, according to the fire department, are being treated at the scene. And now the fire department is saying that a total of eight people were on board.

Now, as you can imagine, it's pretty hectic scene there. This is just preliminary information that eight people were on board. And according to the fire department, two were taken to Bellview four treated on the scene, which would account for six of those eight. But again, this is all preliminary information.

BLITZER: And information coming in relatively quickly under these circumstances.

And I just want our viewers to know, these are live pictures you're seeing in Manhattan. The East River just below the United Nations, just south of the United Nations. A helicopter for the second time within four days has gone down in the East River. We believe eight people aboard that helicopter all of them on shore.

We don't know the conditions, but as Mary said, two of them, at least two of them have been taken to Bellview Hospital for treatment. Others were seen on stretchers being treated here on the side on the dock of this area just as the FDR Highway, for those of you familiar with New York City, moves in Manhattan.

Miles, how dangerous is it to be a passenger on a helicopter as compared to being a passenger on a plane, a small plane?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, statistically, Wolf I don't have the numbers in front of me where I am right now, but I've read things in the past which seem to indicate that they can be actually safer, depending on the mission.

Now, perhaps the most dangerous sort of flying that there is is emergency medical technicians doing medevac type of operations, because they tend to fly in terrible weather, terrible conditions, terrible landing locations, you know, all of the scenarios are kind of stacked against them because they're trying to save lives.

But in a typical situation, a helicopter flying over land, if you lose an engine, you're going to land -- you going land hard -- but you're going to land safely because there's a thing called auto rotation that happens with a helicopter, even with its engine out, it comes to the ground with some aerodynamic cushioning along the way. And will land. And you might be a little bit banged up, but you'd walk away from that. So typically, what you find is that they're pretty safe.

Now, in this case, what you've got is, you know, two pilots. It's probably a helicopter fully rated to go into bad weather situations and twin engine probably. In those cases, you know, the level of safety on them is pretty good. And it probably stacks up very favorably against the kind of flying you'd see, you know, in a corporate jet, for example.

BLITZER: Mary, any more information coming in where you are inside our New York bureau?

SNOW: Wolf, we're still hearing from the fire department, the four are being treated on the scene, two at this point taken to nearby Bellview Hospital. Of the people being treated on the ground, including, according to a law enforcement official on the scene, one had been treated with a neck brace. We heard from a local reporter earlier that some of the rescue workers had to actually carve a hole in that fence in order to get the stretchers away from that dock and onto the highway so that those ambulances could leave and people could be taken away from the scene.

But as far as we know from the fire department, of the eight people on board, six have been accounted for. Again, this information coming in pretty quickly and these are preliminary reports.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, we have not heard anything yet from the Federal Aviation Administration, but based on past experience, two helicopter accidents or crashes within four days, what would their normal response be? Would they want to do a slowdown or a shutdown of helicopter traffic in Manhattan to try to sort out for 24 or 48 hours what's going on? Or do they just go along with their investigation and allow helicopters to fly in and out of New York City without interruption.

O'BRIEN: Unless there was some really obvious connection here and there was some sort of procedural issue that needed to be addressed, that seems very unlikely to me.

You know, of course, the first agency to get involved here is the National Transportation Safety Board, which is the lead agency for conducting investigations like this. Now, last week, or a few days ago I should say, when we saw that other accident, that probably did not rise to the level where the so called go team, which of course, as you know, Wolf, is there in Washington with their bags packed ready to go to incidents like this at any given moment, they were not deployed. Local people dealt with that one.

But in this case, because of the scenario here and because of the fact that it's coming after a previous incident, it's probably going to rise to that level. I haven't had a chance to call and see if the NTSB was in fact dispatching a go team.

But it seems like that would be the case and if the NTSB got on the scene there and they found out very quickly that there was something to do with the way the pilots were talking to each other on the radio or were being cleared into the heli-ports which was causing some confusion, they might very well say: Look we need to do a stand- down here or close down this or such and such.

In other words, make an emergency recommendation which the FAA would follow. But, you know, sometimes these things just happen, you know, by really tragic coincidence, you know. And we in the media kind of say: Aha, there's a real problem here. But maybe not, maybe there is no way to connect the two dots.

And so -- and certainly, it's way too early since we're still trying to figure out what happened on the previous one, much less what's going on, right now.

BLITZER: We do know that the previous incident involved a tourist helicopter: six tourists and the pilot were hospitalized. Several of the tourists were from out of the country -- from England, among other places. The incident is being investigated, right now -- that earlier incident. And now they can add this second incident to this incident to make sure that there is no structural or procedural or formal problem that could cause this -- these kinds of helicopter crashes in the East River of Manhattan.

A lot of viewers probably will say: it's way too much to think that this is a coincidence -- two helicopter crashes within four days in the same little East River, Miles, but presumably that's very possible.

O'BRIEN: Well, things like that happen and certainly, Wolf, as you know, when you look at the number of helicopters that are in the air at any given moment over the East River, you know, statistically,I guess -- I'm not a statistician -- but I suspect that, you know, the numbers are such that these things -- kinds of things could happen. I mean, the bottom line is: Except for the fact that there are, you know, helicopters in that location, on surface here, it doesn't appear to be any commonality. It doesn't appear to be the same sort of aircraft. That would be the first thing you'd look at: Wow, two helicopters, the same type.

It does appear that this is the case. It sounds like this was a little bigger aircraft, probably a twin engine, probably a corporate type of scenario, and to immediately link that to the previous one is probably jumping to a conclusion.

Now, as I say, you know, if there's something about the way those helicopters are being cleared, and talking to controllers, and landing at the heli-port, that is causing some confusion, that could be an issue. But, you know, they've been flying helicopters there since there have been helicopters and the procedures there are well-known and the pilots there are very, very experienced. And people who fly in and out of there know what they're doing.

BLITZER: I'm going to have Miles O'Brien, our CNN anchor and pilot, stand by. Mary Snow is standing by, as well. Let me recap for viewers who are tuning in: For the second time within a four-day period, a helicopter has gone down in the East River, the east side of Manhattan. This according to New York City police.

Mike Lutz is with the U.S. Coast Guard and joining us on the phone with additional information. Mike, what do you know?

PETTY OFFICER MIKE LUTZ, U.S. COAST GUARD: Hi.

We had eight people on board the helicopter when it crashed. The small passenger-vessel Half Moon, was able to pick up three of them. They are -- all eight are now currently on land and they are all alive. We have had to close down 59th street down to 14th street along -- in the East River in order to -- because of the debris there.

BLITZER: Mike Lutz, you're with the Coast Guard. So, are you part of this rescue operation that's going on?

LUTZ: No, I'm currently in the office, but I'm helping out as much as I can here.

BLITZER: So, we do know that there are eight people. Two of those people were pilots. Is that right?

LUTZ: I don't have exactly what -- where they were flying to or who they were with and I'm not exactly sure, I mean, if it was a pleasure or for business or what not yet.

BLITZER: And you don't know if this was a corporate helicopter or a sight seeing tourist-type of helicopter, commuters?

We do know that several of the -- those rescued were in business suits. So, I assume we can think that maybe this was a corporate-type of helicopter, but we don't have that kind of specific information.

Is that right, mike?

LUTZ: Not as of yet.

BLITZER: Do we know -- is the helicopter still submerged?

LUTZ: The last reports I heard, it was still submerged and there was a lot of debris from it in the East River, which is why we've had to close that portion of the East River down.

BLITZER: Did the helicopter sort of land on the water, allowing the eight people on board to escape and then go down? Do you know the circumstances of the crash into the East River?

LUTZ: No, I sure don't -- not yet.

BLITZER: So this is just all very preliminary information that you're getting. Mike Lutz is with the U.S. Coast guard. He's involved in the rescue operation. Mike, we'll get some more information from you as it gets available.

Peter Goelz is on the phone with us, as well -- formerly with the NTSB: the National Transportation Safety Board. What do you make of this, Peter?

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, I think it's going to increase the scrutiny on rotor-craft investigations. When you get two high-profile accidents, you know, in one week it naturally gets people's attention.

BLITZER: Well, what will the NTSB do, Peter? You know the mentality, you know how they operate -- because I was just talking with Miles O'Brien who knows a great deal about this, as well. As you say, two high-profile helicopter crashes within four days in the same East River -- do they caution all the other helicopters going in and out of Manhattan? maybe it's a time to rethink some procedures? or what are -- what is the NTSB going to do now?

GOELZ: Well, they've got to get a look and see whether it was a mechanical issue or a flight control issue. It looks, you know, if -- they've got a team in place from the first accident. So, they're going to be able to get people on-scene immediately. Plus, they've got a pretty good-sized regional office in the New York area. But anytime you have something like this: Where you get two in a row, they're going to bring all their resources to bear -- as will the FAA.

BLITZER: Is it your sense that there's -- that helicopter travel in and out of Manhattan is risky? You know a great deal about helicopters and the safety problems that they may or may not have. What's your bottom line as far as helicopters flying into a very congested area like New York City?

GOELZ: Well, New York is actually had a pretty good record on that. I mean, helicopters in general have a higher accident rate than fixed-wing aircraft and tourists helicopter operations in general have gotten a lot of attention over the past 10 years, particularly in the Grand Canyon and in Hawaii. There have been a number of accidents in those areas in which the NTSB have look the at those very carefully.

But New York City has had -- the area there -- has had a pretty good accident record. There was a fatal accident back in the '90s with a corporate helicopter that went down, but it has had a good track record.

BLITZER: Now, Miles O'Brien is with us, as well. I think he wants to weigh in, Peter. Miles, you want to ask Peter Goelz anything?

O'BRIEN: Well, Yes. Peter, first of all, would this be something that the NTSB would likely send a go team to, given the fact, especially, that there's been two incidents?

GOELZ: Well, I think they would, particularly if there are fatalities on this one.

O'BRIEN: Right.

GOELZ: And given the high-profile coverage, that it's the second in four days, I think they would send a pretty good-sized team there.

O'BRIEN: And I'm wondering what would they be -- first be doing --what would be the first thing on their list? They want -- probably want to look for anything that would require some sort of emergency changes or notifications to the FAA. What would be first on your list?

GOELZ: Well, I think you want to get in and you want to get to the -- if the pilot and co-pilot have survived, you want to get to them and see what was going on. You want to review any air-traffic- control tapes that might have -- that might have occurred: What the pilots were saying. And then you've got to get to the wreckage as soon as possible. You've got to lift that stuff up and see what happened.

BLITZER: All right. Miles O'Brien, stand by.

Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB: The National Transportation Safety Board.

Thanks very much, for helping us better understand what's going on as we've been reporting now for almost an hour -- about 45 minutes, 50 minutes or so.

A second helicopter has gone down in the East River. This helicopter carrying eight people. We are told all eight have been rescued, although the helicopter itself -- we don't know what type -- it remains at the bottom of the East River, submerged. We have been seeing divers going into the waters, presumably looking for that helicopter.

The incident occurred just south of the United Nations on the east side of Manhattan right near the FDR Highway that goes up and down the east side of Manhattan.

These are live pictures, once again.

We see one of those passengers being removed in a stretcher.

Kathleen Koch, who covers aviation for us, is on the phone. She's getting some more information.

Kathleen, as we see this passenger -- we don't know who it is, being brought into this ambulance presumably to be taken to a local hospital. What have you learned, Kathleen?

I don't think we have Kathleen Koch available. We'll try to hook up and get that connection working.

Once again, these are live pictures from the east side of Manhattan. Mary Snow is our reporter on the scene in New York. Mary, have you been able to get additional information?

SNOW: Yes. Wolf, we don't have the exact conditions of the people who were brought out. But as you mentioned, the fire department saying that all eight people had been accounted for, four treated on the scene, four taken to Bellview Hospital.

And also, when we were speaking to Mike Luntz of the Coast Guard before, he mentioned the half moon boat that had helped to rescue three of the passengers on board. That was a private boat that was in the East River, according to officials that helped with that rescue effort.

We also are learning that we are expecting some kind of press conference or statement. We're not quite sure who is going to be addressing the media, but we do anticipate that in a short time. No exact time just now. But we are waiting for some more information.

So again, eight people have been accounted for. Fire department saying four of them taken to the hospital, four treated at the scene.

BLITZER: All right. Once again, these are live pictures from Manhattan.

Does it look to you, Mary -- it looks like regular traffic has resumed on the FDR over there. At least those cars are moving.

SNOW: Yes. That is actually one of the roads leading up to the FDR. We had reported earlier that northbound traffic had been closed off. But it does appear that it is now flowing once again.

BLITZER: All right. I think we've managed to get Kathleen Koch on the line. Kathleen, what are you being told?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, Lauren Paduzzi. And she says at this point, they have no plans to close any of the heliports in New York City, to tell them to stand down in any way. They don't believe that these two crashes coming though as close together as they have, are evidence of any sort of systemic problem with the heliports in New York City. The one thing that the NTSB has done is that they have already deployed investigators from their Parsippany, New Jersey office. So, if they are not there already, they're certainly on their way.

Now, they may be sending a press spokesperson from Washington, D.C., but no go team at this point.

BLITZER: Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board said -- we just heard him on CNN just a few moments ago, Kathleen, said there already is one team there from the earlier crash four days ago, presumably they could pick up some of the work right now since they're already on the scene.

KOCH: Possibly, Wolf. But also they possibly could have their hands full with that first investigation. And they try not to overload the investigators too much. They may indeed, again as Ms. Peduzzi said, be sending that separate team for that very reason.

BLITZER: To make sure that they have enough personnel, two helicopter crashes within four days.

There you see some of the first responders on shore, as well as in the water trying to make sure that everything gets back to normal as quickly as possible.

Eight people, we're told, aboard the helicopter. All eight are now on shore in varies conditions, several of them have been taken to a local hospital or hospitals in the area.

Miles O'Brien, you've covered a lot of crashes over the years. It was interesting when Peter Goelz was talking about the history of tourist helicopters having some significant problems in the Grand Canyon, in Hawaii. We've covered those stories over the years. But he did say that in New York City, the track record is pretty good.

O'BRIEN: Well, generally speaking -- you know, you've got to be careful not to make sweeping generalizations. But what happens, if you think about it for a moment, the mission of a tourist helicopter is to give somebody who's paid some money quite a thrill and a good view. And so there is a tendency to get a little closer to the ground and those kinds of situations lead to trouble.

A lot of what you see in New York is corporate type of activity. People going -- connecting to airports, going out to Long Island, whatever the case may be. Just a very expensive way of avoiding the traffic. And in that case, they're not there for sightseeing.

And so the idea is to, you know, take off, get away from the helipad, maintain as much altitude as you can as quickly as you can. It's a very different sort of flying. Frequently, almost all the time in those cases, two pilots. You have helicopters that are twin engine, you have helicopters that have full instrument capability, can fly in the clouds.

And so the type of helicopter flying that you see around New York City and the Tri-state area there is very different than the kind of thing you'd get out in to see Oahu or to take a look at the Grand Canyon where they're trying to go below the rim and give people a thrill.

BLITZER: It looks like they're trying to raise something, some debris or parts of a helicopter. Next to that boat, Miles, if you can see that picture, we see the ropes are attached to something. It could be part of the helicopter that went down in the East River.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I can't make it out from where I am right now Wolf. But clearly, you know, the good news is that they have gotten everybody out of there. And the fact that they're beginning essentially an salvage operation right now is good news.

Let's hope that those people that got them out quickly enough, because that -- at this point now, the key is to get as much of that out of there so the investigators can do their job.

BLITZER: This picture you can see, those rescue workers on the side of that boat. That's a New York City boat. It looks like there's some white debris or something there. There's a better shot you can see from this angle, courtesy of our affiliate WABC. It looks like they're trying to bring something up that may or may not be part of the helicopter, bring it up to shore. And we'll continue to monitor that from these various angles that we have.

There's no doubt, though, that this is going to cause some alarm bells in New York City and elsewhere. Two helicopter crashes in the same East River within a period of four days. We're told eight people aboard this helicopter, seven aboard the helicopter that went down earlier in the week.

All eight of these individuals, two pilots, six passengers, apparently are -- they're alive, they're on shore, they're in various hospitals or being treated elsewhere.

Let's listen into our affiliate WABC and see what they have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. There was no fire or anything. It was just like a -- it just broke apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were telling me earlier that once you saw that, you jumped into action, got out of your car and went towards the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never got to my car. I just got my key from the hut. And then once I saw that, I ran towards where it happened, which is about, you know, 50 yards away. And I -- you know, upon getting there I saw about four guys about five guys, three of them were clinging on to one piece of the helicopter. And one was separated on a separate piece. And then I think there were two other guys.

So the one that was closest to me, I ran towards there. I jump over the concrete wall at the bottom by the water and I stretched my leg out. I said, here, just grab on to this. And he grabbed on to my leg. Then I was able to pull him in. But he was about four feet below the wall. So, we formed like a human chain. The guys grabbed my hand on top. And I grab him onto the shore and we pulled him out of the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said....

BLITZER: All right. So we'll continue to monitor this situation. A helicopter crash south of the United Nations in the East River of Manhattan. Second time within four days a helicopter has gone down. Eight people aboard this helicopter: six passengers, two pilots.

We believe based on what fire and rescue officials, police have told us, all eight are on shore right now.

We'll continue to watch what's going on. We'll take a quick break. When we come back, we'll update you on earthquakes, the disaster that occurred on the West Coast yesterday, another earthquake. What's going on there? Much more coverage of the East Coast and the West Coast when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: These are live pictures. The East River, looks like this is where the helicopter that went down about an hour or so ago -- the local authorities are trying to rescue, trying to recover some of that helicopter. It looks like they have a little piece of it on the side over there. Eight people aboard the helicopter, six passengers, two pilots. All are on shore in various conditions. Some have been taken to a local hospital, the Bellevue Hospital. We're watching all of this.

This is the second time within four days that a helicopter has gone down in the East River. We'll get some more information and update you on that as soon as it becomes available.

At this time yesterday, we were dealing with another kind of breaking news story, an earthquake in Southern California. Indeed from north to south, millions of Californians have now been shaken over these past few days by a series of moderate-to-powerful earthquakes. And as always, with swarms like these, some are wondering if they're a sign of something bigger to come.

CNN's Brian Todd has been speaking with experts. He's joining us now live from the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia. What are they saying, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they have not been this busy here since the Asian tsunami back in December. Now, if anything happens during the course of my report, we'll be able to see it here on this seismograph. This is live. It monitors up to the minute seismic activity around the world. The sensor for this particular machine is in Alaska.

I'm going to take you quickly to this digital map, where it reflects seismic activity all over the world, especially, you can see, very heavy activity in the Pacific Rim. The yellow circles reflect activity over the past weeks and month; the orange reflect activity more recent in recent days.

There's constant seismic activity in the Pacific Rim, but what has gone on in California over the past five days has a lot of people nervous.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): At Hollywood Park racetrack, the horses didn't cause the commotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn't thunder, folks. That was the ground shaking.

TODD: In Englewood, Yucaipa and throughout Southern California, they dodged injury and serious damage this time, but residents still get those familiar pangs of anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have earthquake insurance. I can say I'm really glad that we have it.

TODD: Seismologists cannot tell her if she'll need to kick in that policy in the future, but they're keeping a close eye on her area in Yucaipa, where Thursday's 4.9 magnitude quake hit between two plate of the San Andreas fault. Add that to three other quakes in California or offshore, including an aftershock registering 6.6, a massive and deadly earthquake that rocked northern Chile, another in a series of tremblers in the Aleutian Island chain off Alaska, plus a moderate earthquake in the tsunami-ravaged Aceh province in Indonesia, all occurred this week. Are they connected?

MICHAEL BLANPIED, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: They're really not connected in any sort of obvious way, except that the Earth is a dynamic, earthquake-producing body. All around the Pacific, we have earthquakes every week.

TODD: Experts say many of these quakes are on different fault lines. But they're also in the so-called Ring of Fire in the Pacific Rim. And seismologists say when an earthquake occurs, it relieves geological stress in one place and builds that stress in another.

In California, events in this kind of succession revive the inevitable question -- is that massive quake predicted along the San Andreas fault, the big one, on the way?

BLANPIED: The big one is always on the way in California, because we know that the faults in California are capable of producing great earthquakes that will do considerable damage. However, the occurrence of these moderate earthquakes this week does not mean in any kind of obvious way that we understand that there's a big one immediately on the way.

TODD: Some experts are more worried about the Sumatran coast in Indonesia, the general area where the tsunami hit last December. That event, plus another massive offshore quake nearby in March, they say, could foreshadow an earthquake in that region that could get up to a magnitude 9.0.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Now, just for perspective, the largest earthquake ever recorded was a 9.5. That was along the coast of Chile in 1960.

Now, experts say despite the fact that they cannot predict when, where and how strong the next big earthquake will be, the value of what we have seen this week is that people all over the Pacific Rim are now more aware of the danger and will be better prepared when that earthquake does hit -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, that needle next to you, I take it it hasn't really moved very dramatically over the past two minutes?

TODD: No, no, not over the past two minutes, not over the past 24 hours. A little bit over the past 24 hours, not much.

BLITZER: OK, Brian Todd, reporting for us from the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia. Brian, thanks very much.

We'll take another quick break. When we come back, we'll go to Iraq. There are dramatic developments unfolding right now. A major U.S. military operation under way. We'll take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: They call it Operation Spear. The U.S. military says it's a powerful thrust into the heart of an insurgent stronghold right by the Syrian border. But the fighting right now is fierce. CNN's Jane Arraf is with the troops in the town of Karbala. She has our exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): There's been an intense battle here for hours. This is the city of Karbala, 60,000 people very close to the Syrian border. And what the Marines say is a safe haven, a stronghold, of foreign fighters and insurgents.

They rolled in here early in the morning with 1,000 troops, including Iraqi troops, to go out through parts of the city. And as they did, they were met by gunfire, by rockets, by mortars, and by rocket-propelled grenades.

They responded with almost every weapon at their disposal, launching bombs, in some cases 2,000-pound JDAMs launched on houses believed to be housing insurgents and foreign fighters. In other cases, there was gunfire throughout the day.

And (INAUDIBLE) now that the battle is not over yet. Marine commanders say that this has become a place where foreign fighters in some cases are making their last stand. They're trying to rout them out, and make sure that this does not continue to be part of the pipeline, they say, for foreign fighters from Syria into the west of Iraq. Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Korabola (ph), Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: I had reported she was in Karbala. She's in Korabola (ph), which is a different location on the Syrian border. Jane Arraf reporting for us.

We want to apologize to the son of the late shah of Iran, Reza Pahlavi. He was going to be our guest today. Unfortunately, the breaking news, the helicopter crash in New York City has prevented that, but he will be back here on this program next week.

Remember, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS 5:00 p.m. Eastern weekdays. I'll be back on Monday. On Sunday, though, on "LATE EDITION," my special guest, the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. That's Sunday, noon Eastern, "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now, Lou standing by in New York -- Lou.

END

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 17, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, this is a life picture of the East River. New York City, a helicopter has gone down in this river, the second time this week. CNN's Mary Snow standing by collecting information. I know it's sketchy, Mary. What do we know?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, at this time, what we know is that reports are saying that this helicopter is underwater. And that passengers are being pulled out. This is from the Associated Press.

As you can see, some of these aerial shots from our affiliate here in New York, WABC. We are seeing several rescue crews on the scene. And WABC reporting at least one person being pulled out of the water.

The New York City Fire Department saying it is believed that five people are on board. And as we just mentioned, this is the second helicopter accident in one week.

Earlier this week, a helicopter with seven passengers went down near Wall Street. This is near the U.N. area. And traffic being stopped right now on the nearby FDR Drive -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We're getting other information, Mary, from the Associated Press. A police spokesman saying five or six people believed to have been on board. Preliminary reports, according to the Associated Press, all the people aboard are out of the aircraft and accounted for. No reports of injuries. But the helicopter, as you've reported, is submerged in the East River.

This helicopter crash in the East River just south of the United Nations. Once again, the second helicopter accident in four days in the waters off of Manhattan.

Mary, I take it there are several helipads along that area on the east side of the Manhattan?

SNOW: There are, Wolf. On that east side, two of the more popular ones are the ones you're looking at right now right near the United Nations. Another popular one is that Wall Street heliport where we saw this accident earlier in the week that had seven people on board, one had been seriously injured in that incident.

As you can see now, these details pretty sketchy, just because it has happened so quickly. But you can see the divers going in. There are reports the helicopter is totally submerged.

BLITZER: Mary, what's the weather like in New York today? My understanding was it was pretty good, just hot.

SNOW: Absolutely. And not as hot as it was earlier in the week. Skies appear to be pretty clear. So it does not seem that weather would have had any involvement in this.

BLITZER: Helicopters are pretty common in getting in and out of Manhattan, given the enormous traffic problems in that small island. What kind of helicopter safety record is there, based on what you've known over the years?

SNOW: Well, Wolf, the helicopter accident that we had earlier this week, the one that went down near Wall Street, had been the first one in a number of years. So, best of my knowledge.

As you mentioned, this is rush hour, Friday, heading into the summer and there are a number of choppers, whether they be, you know, commuters going in and out of the city, choppers being hired by corporations or in some cases, tourist choppers.

BLITZER: There is tourists, there's commuters. Also, it seems to be for many wealthy people a sort of preferred method of transportation to get out of Manhattan to avoid the rush hour to fly off to the Hamptons on Long Island or some other country home they might have.

So, we have no idea what kind of helicopter this was. But we do know based on what preliminary reports are suggesting, the five or six people in that helicopter are believed to be out of the water. They seem to be OK. At least according to the Associated Press, we're quoting a police spokesman.

But we're getting more information -- actually, as I speak, we're getting more information from the Associated Press that there are no immediate reports of any injuries, although we do see some people being treated on the side there.

This is the east side of Manhattan, just below the United Nations. It's a very, very active and busy area, Mary.

SNOW: And we are just getting this information in now, Wolf, that there are four people on the stretchers. And according to some preliminary reports, the search continues.

What we do see, as you can see from the aerial shots from WABC, four people being treated right now on the scene.

As you mentioned, the fire department of New York is saying it is believed that there are five people on board that chopper.

BLITZER: We see people being treated there along the side, but we don't know exactly what's going on. In fact, the information is slow in coming.

But we do see the stretchers there, we see some blankets that have been put down, presumably some of those who have recovered from this helicopter that's gone down, the second helicopter to go down within four days in the East River on the east side of Manhattan. It happened only within the past few minutes. And these are live pictures that we're getting from our affiliates in New York City.

Fire and rescue workers on the scene. It didn't take very long for them to get there. But we see that some of those rescued are being treated right now.

The divers along the side at some point, assuming this helicopter has completely gone down, the divers will have their work cut out for them to get this helicopter out of the water to try to determine what precisely happened.

I think Mary Snow is gathering more information as we speak right now. Let me just recap for viewers who may be just be tuning in at the top of the hour. A helicopter has gone down in the East River in Manhattan, the second helicopter to go down under suspicious circumstances. But we don't know if there were mechanical problems, what are -- pilot -- pilot error, what the situation is.

We don't know who was in this helicopter. But we are told that four or five people who were inside, four people were seen to be on stretchers, as you can see -- at least you saw a few moments ago -- on the dock where they were rescued. And we're getting these pictures and the information in from our affiliates from local police and other rescue workers on the scene. You can see what's going on over there.

Mary, what else are you learning?

SNOW: We are learning, Wolf, that WABC is showing several rescue crews. We've seen, as you said, about four people being treated on the stretcher. This is right near the United Nations. Alongside what is usually a very busy highway, especially around this time of day on the East River Drive.

As you can see, more rescue teams going in there. The incident apparently reported at 4:42 p.m. this afternoon. And this gaining so much attention, again, because it is the second chopper crash we have seen this week. Earlier this week, there was a chopper with seven people on board, one had been seriously injured.

So, details pretty sketchy. We don't know what kind of chopper this was. And as we're repeating again, the fire department believes that there were five people on board.

BLITZER: Five people on board. But we see four stretchers out there. So, presumably these people are being treated along the dock over there where the rescue workers, the fire workers have gathered. Spectators beginning to arrive as well. Police trying to move traffic along that road over there near the United Nations.

This helicopter could have gone down simply for numerous reasons whether mechanical or pilot error or other reasons. We don't know if it was a tourist helicopter, a corporate helicopter, a commuter helicopter. We have no information on that yet. But we're trying to gather as much information as we can. We see other police helicopters flying overhead. These pictures, these are live pictures courtesy of our affiliates in New York City. We're trying to get different angles to try to learn more what's going on. But this is the east side of Manhattan where this rescue operation is continuing.

It's only a few minutes old. The helicopter accident apparently occurred at 3:41 p.m. five or six people on board and no reports of injuries right now. Although the AP was reporting, quoting a police spokesman earlier that all of the people on that helicopter have been brought ashore.

Mary, what else are you learning?

SNOW: Information still sketchy, Wolf. But we are finding out that this incident apparently was reported to police around 4:42, which would have just been about a half hour ago. As you can see, all the rescue choppers have been coming in, boats and divers at the scene.

And as you can see, traffic pretty much stopped northbound. There's a main artery in New York City along the FDR Drive. What normally would be a very busy time on a Friday in afternoon rush hour.

BLITZER: Five people, do we believe on board, Mary, or four? Because we have seen four people on stretchers on the dock.

SNOW: Right. The fire department is saying it's believed that there are five people on board. It is not clear whether or not that included the pilot.

So, we are seeing those four stretchers out. And what we have heard is that this chopper had been completely submerged, according to reports from the scene.

BLITZER: So I assume they've shut down the FDR. It looked at least in that last shot that we had as if there were no cars moving. They shut down the FDR, that highway along the east side of Manhattan. That's a pretty significant jolt on a Friday when workers and others are trying to escape Manhattan.

SNOW: Yeah, absolutely. Traffic going north is the lane you're just seeing over there, had been stopped as police came here.

BLITZER: It looks like this is the rescue operation, we see that tugboat over there already involved. And other workers, fire workers, rescue workers, police -- New York City is well prepared for these kinds of incidents as well all know, especially after 9/11. The first responders in New York City among the best in the world. They are trained to handle these kinds of emergencies, these kinds of crises. They've had a lot worse on their hands as we all know over these past few years.

There's no doubt, though, that the second helicopter crash in the East River within only four days is going to raise alarm bells among many New Yorkers and others, what's going on? Is this just a fluke? Or is there some structural problem, some serious problem involving the helicopter traffic in New York City? And I don't know the answer, obviously, to that question, Mary. I don't know, you live in New York. In the aftermath of the first helicopter crash earlier in the week in the same river, the East River, further south, though, near Wall Street, what are they saying in New York City?

SNOW: Well, certainly this is going to raise more questions. And, you know, a couple of years ago, Wolf, there had been a tourist chopper that had gone down in New York, and certainly that raised a lot of safety questions about some of these choppers that were going out.

I also wanted to point out, you mentioned about the police presence. This is just south of the U.N. headquarters, and this is a heavily guarded area, one of the most security-conscious in New York. So police already in that area on the scene because of what is always security patrol.

So whether or not that played an effect into the fast response to this accident, not quite sure, but you know, this is an area that is very heavily trafficked.

BLITZER: And I just want to caution all of our viewers, preliminary reports in these kinds of situations are often wrong. Information could be very, very misleading, based on preliminary reports. Not only in a situation like this, a helicopter crash in the East River in Manhattan, but military incidents, usually first reports tend to be wrong in some critical areas. So we'll just have to wait and see.

But let me just recap -- for the second time in a week, a helicopter has crashed in the East River in Manhattan, according to a New York City Police spokeswoman. Fire Department spokesman says five people on board. It wasn't clear whether this included the pilot. Four people were seen on stretchers on the dock, receiving treatment.

The incident occurred just south of the United Nations headquarters. Was reported to the department by 4:40 -- at 4:42 p.m. That's a little bit, about a half hour or so ago.

Miles O'Brien is a pilot and our CNN anchor, and knows something about these kinds of situations. Miles, what does it look like, based on the sketchy information we're getting right now?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's hard to say. You know, you've got to be careful jumping to speculation and jumping to conclusions at this point. But it appears that the flotation devices, which would have undoubtedly been installed on that helicopter, were not activated. So that means that possibly the pilot did not realize that there was some sort of problem, in time in order to activate those things.

What I'm talking about are essentially -- it's a lot like an airbag in a car, essentially, that inflates on the pods. And any helicopter that flies around New York City over water has to have these, legally, in order to fly over the water as a safety measure. You'll recall last week, that helicopter that went down strangely parallel type of incident, that the flotation devices did, in fact, inflate. And that made it possible for everybody to get out of that helicopter.

As you know, Wolf, I mean, the city is a beehive of helicopters. And there's a helipad at 34th Street, which -- there's a good chance this helicopter was going to or fro to that location. And it's a very, very congested place. Helicopters go in there, they land, they're kind of cheek to jowl. I'm always impressed with the ability of the pilots there to do their job. And, you know, if not done properly, it's a very hazardous operation.

BLITZER: Have you ever, Miles, flown a helicopter into New York City?

O'BRIEN: No, I have not. I wouldn't even dare. You wouldn't want me doing that.

BLITZER: Well, have you ever been in a helicopter that's landed in New York City?

O'BRIEN: Yes, I have. And I am impressed with their ability to just get those helicopters down on those tiny little postage stamps of concrete. I know you've had the opportunity to spend a lot of time in helicopters, as well, and you know, there's only one approach to these helipads, wherever they are. And if there's, you know, funny winds and so forth, you can't come in from the favorable direction, and so I don't know the weather situation there at that moment, but the fact is, you have to have a lot of skill in order to safely do that. And on top of that, what you have is, you know, a very busy traffic environment, as well.

BLITZER: I've flown in. I haven't flown, but I've been in a helicopter that's landed on the East Side of Manhattan. On several occasions when I was CNN's White House correspondent, often the then President Bill Clinton would fly in Marine One from one of the airports, whether Kennedy or LaGuardia, into Manhattan on a helicopter.

He would land in that helicopter; I would be in a backup helicopter where the press pool, as we called it, would land, and I was always amazed how tiny the helipads were and what a small margin of error there could be for a pilot to have to touch down, to bring down that helicopter in a relatively small space, because if you misjudge the helicopter, Miles, as you well know, the helipad, at all, you're going to land in the water or you're going to land someplace you don't want to land. You really need an enormous amount of skill to land a helicopter in a congested area like Manhattan.

O'BRIEN: I am very impressed with their skills. And what you say is correct. And when you've done it, you will -- if you don't know much about it, you'll be holding your breath as they come down in those little spots. And yet, frequently, you're landing, you know, between two helicopters with their rotor blades spinning. What seems to be just a matter of inches separating all those rotor blades. There was an early report on last week's incident -- of course, it's too early to say for sure, but that somehow one of the rotor blades touched something else. And that kind of situation in those tight quarters doesn't surprise me too much. As a matter of fact, it kind of surprises me it doesn't happen more often, given the tight constraints that these pilots operate under.

BLITZER: I think Mary Snow -- Miles, stand by for a moment -- Mary Snow, our reporter in New York, is getting additional information. Mary, what are you getting?

SNOW: Well, Wolf, we had been reporting that the Fire Department had believed five people were on board. The Associated Press, quoting the New York City Police Department, is saying that six people were aboard when the accident occurred. That's putting the timeline around 4:41 this afternoon.

Preliminary reports, according to the Associated Press, that all people aboard were out of the aircraft and accounted for -- that is according to the Associated Press. Several calls going in now -- the Fire Department of New York is saying that some of the injured, or some of the people have been taken out of this helicopter have been taken to Bellevue Hospital, which is also on the East Side of Manhattan, not far from where this accident occurred. This accident occurred just south of the United Nations headquarters, along the FDR Drive on the East River of New York.

In terms of the extent of any injuries, that is not yet clear. We're still trying to gather information from both the police and fire department of New York City, but according to the Associated Press, New York City Police saying six people were on board. The fire department had told us earlier they believed five people were on board, but they were not sure if that included the pilot.

BLITZER: And we did see at least one person on a stretcher being treated with a neck brace. And as you point out, being taken, we believe, to the Bellevue Hospital on East Side of Manhattan. This incident, only about 10 blocks, Miles, from that helipad earlier in the week we reported -- and it was seen live here on CNN -- the aftermath of that sight-seeing helicopter that made a hard landing, what was called a hard landing in the East River, taking off from a further area, Wall Street heliport in lower Manhattan.

This is a different kind of situation, we suspect, a hard landing as opposed to -- as opposed to this helicopter incident right now.

Our affiliate WABC, Miles and Mary, is broadcasting live. Let's listen into their coverage and see what they have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Desperately getting these people onto stretchers, getting them out of the river, and then taking them to -- into the waiting ambulances. But a very dramatic rescue scene. It was all happening as we arrived. And let's go back over to the ambulance right there, Dave, if you can.

You can see a man in there kind of -- he's talking to a man and describing what happened. You can see him kind of moving his arms, so the three people, the three men we saw all in kind of business attire, all seem to be conscious, alive, moving their arms and talking, except for the one man who had his hand bandaged, he had some blood on his shirt. But of course, if we can break away for a moment, we will go and try to figure out, try to talk to some of the police and the paramedics and the rescuers who were here on scene and get right back to you.

DIANA WILLIAMS, WABC ANCHOR: Nina, Nina, before you go, real quickly, all men that you have seen so far, men in business suits? Is that what you're seeing at this point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Diana, the three people that they had cut -- they cut that hole through the fence, and the three people they took out were all men. They said they were blinking their eyes and they were talking, they were moving around. They had one man on a stretcher that they took -- they kind of seemed to take him in one direction, and then take him back the other way. So it didn't seem like there was too much urgency to get him into an ambulance. He was moving around and talking to them.

But of course, there is so much personnel here on the scene. And I think they had some trouble accessing the river, because they had to cut a hole, a wide hole in the fence and actually pass the stretchers through that hole. And it took about eight or nine men and women, paramedics, FDNY, EMS to get the people out and into the waiting ambulances.

WILLIAMS: Nina, we've just learned that actually two of the patients were taken to Bellevue Hospital.

I know you just arrived there on the scene, but what are people saying about what they actually saw happen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. You know, I was trying to listen in as the police were trying to keep us back, because we couldn't believe how close we actually got. We were five feet away as they were bringing the victims on the stretchers past us. And one of them was talking. I was trying to listen to what he was saying about how the chopper may have gone down.

But they were all wet. One man was bleeding. And of course, the concern of the police here was to keep the media back, keep the press back so that they could get the stretchers right away into the waiting ambulances. And they haven't left the scene actually.

But you can see they are now shutting the -- Dave One, should go over to -- back to the ambulance and show they just the doors on that ambulance from where that man was moving his hands and trying to describe what happened. So that one should get ready to go.

I'm still waiting to see if they bring some other people out (INAUDIBLE) They just shut the doors on that ambulance from where that man was trying to describe what happened. So that one should get ready to go. I'm still waiting to see if they bring other people out. WILLIAMS: Well, Nina, we're going to let you go do your job there, gather information, talk to witnesses and report back to us as quickly as you can. We do understand, Nina, just to give you a heads- up that a ninth person...

BLITZER: All right. So there are conflicting reports whether there were seven people on board this helicopter or eight people on board this helicopter. We're getting conflicting information. That's not unusual in a developing story like this, preliminary reports often are sketchy. We're trying to get precise information.

Some authorities saying there were eight people on board. Others saying seven, some saying earlier six.

Mary Snow, I know you're watching this. You're in New York right now. From authorities, police and fire authorities, what's the latest information you're getting? How many people were on board the helicopter? And have they all been rescued and are being treated at a local hospital?

SNOW: From the fire department of New York, Wolf, we're getting word that there were eight people on board this helicopter, two of them pilots, six of them passengers. The fire department saying that some of these people, the passengers, are being taken to Bellview Hospital as we just heard in that report there.

According to the Associated Press, preliminary reports, these are preliminary reports accounting that all people on board this aircraft had been accounted for. Again, there had been some discrepancy about how many people were on board that chopper. We still don't know what kind of helicopter it was or where it was going. But the fire department saying now eight people on board, two of them pilots, six passengers.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien is watching this with us, as well. Miles himself a pilot, an authority on these kinds of matters. You mentioned earlier, Miles, that the flotation device on the helicopter may not have been activated as a result, this helicopter has been submerged, is underwater right now. Tell our viewers what that flotation device is capable of doing.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's -- a couple things to think about here. First of all, as I've been listening, Wolf, the possibility is very distinct here that this was probably some sort of corporate helicopter mission involving businessmen or businesswomen. And that it's -- it's quite it might have been a twin engine helicopter with retractable gear, for example, retractable landing gear. And in which case, that would not necessarily have that equipment on board, because with two engines, it is not deemed necessary to have that flotation device.

But backing up to that previous incident which involved sight seeing helicopter with a standard fixed skids underneath the single engine of a helicopter, those devices are not unlike an air bag. You know, kind of in the wheel of your car that inflate rapidly when the pilot deems that he's going to have to make a water landing. It's not a great floating craft when it's on the water, but it does buy you some time on the surface. And that's what helped in that previous case.

Now, in this case, there might have been an entirely different scenario here that led to this. So it's kind of early it make collusions like that. But there's no evidence -- since there's nothing floating on the surface, we can say that certainly they were not deployed. Were they there, it's another question.

BLITZER: Well, we see this diver coming out of the water on this ladder on the dock right there. Presumably, he or she went down to look to see if they could find the helicopter at the bottom of the East River, which we know is a dirty river, not necessarily the most pleasant place to go for a swim. But how deep would you suspect, Miles, the water would be in the East River where this helicopter might be at the bottom?

O'BRIEN: You know, I honestly don't know the depth of the East River. I know it's really not -- it's actually not technically a river, it's more ever an estuary. It flows in both directions with the tides depending. And it's kind of just an extension of Jamaica Bay there, really more than anything. So, it's, you know, it's salty, murky water. And it would not be ideal conditions for those divers. But that's what they're trained to go, they're trained to go in there, literally, in zero visibility situations and try to perform rescues. So the best we can hope is that everybody's out.

BLITZER: Mary, is it your sense, based on the information that you're getting, that everyone on that helicopter has, in fact, been rescued? And that there are no more people inside the helicopter?

SNOW: Well Wolf, the latest information we're getting from the New York City Fire Department and our producer, Lauren Rivera who is at the scene, is that two people have been taken to Bellview Hospital for, according to the fire department, are being treated at the scene. And now the fire department is saying that a total of eight people were on board.

Now, as you can imagine, it's pretty hectic scene there. This is just preliminary information that eight people were on board. And according to the fire department, two were taken to Bellview four treated on the scene, which would account for six of those eight. But again, this is all preliminary information.

BLITZER: And information coming in relatively quickly under these circumstances.

And I just want our viewers to know, these are live pictures you're seeing in Manhattan. The East River just below the United Nations, just south of the United Nations. A helicopter for the second time within four days has gone down in the East River. We believe eight people aboard that helicopter all of them on shore.

We don't know the conditions, but as Mary said, two of them, at least two of them have been taken to Bellview Hospital for treatment. Others were seen on stretchers being treated here on the side on the dock of this area just as the FDR Highway, for those of you familiar with New York City, moves in Manhattan.

Miles, how dangerous is it to be a passenger on a helicopter as compared to being a passenger on a plane, a small plane?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, statistically, Wolf I don't have the numbers in front of me where I am right now, but I've read things in the past which seem to indicate that they can be actually safer, depending on the mission.

Now, perhaps the most dangerous sort of flying that there is is emergency medical technicians doing medevac type of operations, because they tend to fly in terrible weather, terrible conditions, terrible landing locations, you know, all of the scenarios are kind of stacked against them because they're trying to save lives.

But in a typical situation, a helicopter flying over land, if you lose an engine, you're going to land -- you going land hard -- but you're going to land safely because there's a thing called auto rotation that happens with a helicopter, even with its engine out, it comes to the ground with some aerodynamic cushioning along the way. And will land. And you might be a little bit banged up, but you'd walk away from that. So typically, what you find is that they're pretty safe.

Now, in this case, what you've got is, you know, two pilots. It's probably a helicopter fully rated to go into bad weather situations and twin engine probably. In those cases, you know, the level of safety on them is pretty good. And it probably stacks up very favorably against the kind of flying you'd see, you know, in a corporate jet, for example.

BLITZER: Mary, any more information coming in where you are inside our New York bureau?

SNOW: Wolf, we're still hearing from the fire department, the four are being treated on the scene, two at this point taken to nearby Bellview Hospital. Of the people being treated on the ground, including, according to a law enforcement official on the scene, one had been treated with a neck brace. We heard from a local reporter earlier that some of the rescue workers had to actually carve a hole in that fence in order to get the stretchers away from that dock and onto the highway so that those ambulances could leave and people could be taken away from the scene.

But as far as we know from the fire department, of the eight people on board, six have been accounted for. Again, this information coming in pretty quickly and these are preliminary reports.

BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, we have not heard anything yet from the Federal Aviation Administration, but based on past experience, two helicopter accidents or crashes within four days, what would their normal response be? Would they want to do a slowdown or a shutdown of helicopter traffic in Manhattan to try to sort out for 24 or 48 hours what's going on? Or do they just go along with their investigation and allow helicopters to fly in and out of New York City without interruption.

O'BRIEN: Unless there was some really obvious connection here and there was some sort of procedural issue that needed to be addressed, that seems very unlikely to me.

You know, of course, the first agency to get involved here is the National Transportation Safety Board, which is the lead agency for conducting investigations like this. Now, last week, or a few days ago I should say, when we saw that other accident, that probably did not rise to the level where the so called go team, which of course, as you know, Wolf, is there in Washington with their bags packed ready to go to incidents like this at any given moment, they were not deployed. Local people dealt with that one.

But in this case, because of the scenario here and because of the fact that it's coming after a previous incident, it's probably going to rise to that level. I haven't had a chance to call and see if the NTSB was in fact dispatching a go team.

But it seems like that would be the case and if the NTSB got on the scene there and they found out very quickly that there was something to do with the way the pilots were talking to each other on the radio or were being cleared into the heli-ports which was causing some confusion, they might very well say: Look we need to do a stand- down here or close down this or such and such.

In other words, make an emergency recommendation which the FAA would follow. But, you know, sometimes these things just happen, you know, by really tragic coincidence, you know. And we in the media kind of say: Aha, there's a real problem here. But maybe not, maybe there is no way to connect the two dots.

And so -- and certainly, it's way too early since we're still trying to figure out what happened on the previous one, much less what's going on, right now.

BLITZER: We do know that the previous incident involved a tourist helicopter: six tourists and the pilot were hospitalized. Several of the tourists were from out of the country -- from England, among other places. The incident is being investigated, right now -- that earlier incident. And now they can add this second incident to this incident to make sure that there is no structural or procedural or formal problem that could cause this -- these kinds of helicopter crashes in the East River of Manhattan.

A lot of viewers probably will say: it's way too much to think that this is a coincidence -- two helicopter crashes within four days in the same little East River, Miles, but presumably that's very possible.

O'BRIEN: Well, things like that happen and certainly, Wolf, as you know, when you look at the number of helicopters that are in the air at any given moment over the East River, you know, statistically,I guess -- I'm not a statistician -- but I suspect that, you know, the numbers are such that these things -- kinds of things could happen. I mean, the bottom line is: Except for the fact that there are, you know, helicopters in that location, on surface here, it doesn't appear to be any commonality. It doesn't appear to be the same sort of aircraft. That would be the first thing you'd look at: Wow, two helicopters, the same type.

It does appear that this is the case. It sounds like this was a little bigger aircraft, probably a twin engine, probably a corporate type of scenario, and to immediately link that to the previous one is probably jumping to a conclusion.

Now, as I say, you know, if there's something about the way those helicopters are being cleared, and talking to controllers, and landing at the heli-port, that is causing some confusion, that could be an issue. But, you know, they've been flying helicopters there since there have been helicopters and the procedures there are well-known and the pilots there are very, very experienced. And people who fly in and out of there know what they're doing.

BLITZER: I'm going to have Miles O'Brien, our CNN anchor and pilot, stand by. Mary Snow is standing by, as well. Let me recap for viewers who are tuning in: For the second time within a four-day period, a helicopter has gone down in the East River, the east side of Manhattan. This according to New York City police.

Mike Lutz is with the U.S. Coast Guard and joining us on the phone with additional information. Mike, what do you know?

PETTY OFFICER MIKE LUTZ, U.S. COAST GUARD: Hi.

We had eight people on board the helicopter when it crashed. The small passenger-vessel Half Moon, was able to pick up three of them. They are -- all eight are now currently on land and they are all alive. We have had to close down 59th street down to 14th street along -- in the East River in order to -- because of the debris there.

BLITZER: Mike Lutz, you're with the Coast Guard. So, are you part of this rescue operation that's going on?

LUTZ: No, I'm currently in the office, but I'm helping out as much as I can here.

BLITZER: So, we do know that there are eight people. Two of those people were pilots. Is that right?

LUTZ: I don't have exactly what -- where they were flying to or who they were with and I'm not exactly sure, I mean, if it was a pleasure or for business or what not yet.

BLITZER: And you don't know if this was a corporate helicopter or a sight seeing tourist-type of helicopter, commuters?

We do know that several of the -- those rescued were in business suits. So, I assume we can think that maybe this was a corporate-type of helicopter, but we don't have that kind of specific information.

Is that right, mike?

LUTZ: Not as of yet.

BLITZER: Do we know -- is the helicopter still submerged?

LUTZ: The last reports I heard, it was still submerged and there was a lot of debris from it in the East River, which is why we've had to close that portion of the East River down.

BLITZER: Did the helicopter sort of land on the water, allowing the eight people on board to escape and then go down? Do you know the circumstances of the crash into the East River?

LUTZ: No, I sure don't -- not yet.

BLITZER: So this is just all very preliminary information that you're getting. Mike Lutz is with the U.S. Coast guard. He's involved in the rescue operation. Mike, we'll get some more information from you as it gets available.

Peter Goelz is on the phone with us, as well -- formerly with the NTSB: the National Transportation Safety Board. What do you make of this, Peter?

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, I think it's going to increase the scrutiny on rotor-craft investigations. When you get two high-profile accidents, you know, in one week it naturally gets people's attention.

BLITZER: Well, what will the NTSB do, Peter? You know the mentality, you know how they operate -- because I was just talking with Miles O'Brien who knows a great deal about this, as well. As you say, two high-profile helicopter crashes within four days in the same East River -- do they caution all the other helicopters going in and out of Manhattan? maybe it's a time to rethink some procedures? or what are -- what is the NTSB going to do now?

GOELZ: Well, they've got to get a look and see whether it was a mechanical issue or a flight control issue. It looks, you know, if -- they've got a team in place from the first accident. So, they're going to be able to get people on-scene immediately. Plus, they've got a pretty good-sized regional office in the New York area. But anytime you have something like this: Where you get two in a row, they're going to bring all their resources to bear -- as will the FAA.

BLITZER: Is it your sense that there's -- that helicopter travel in and out of Manhattan is risky? You know a great deal about helicopters and the safety problems that they may or may not have. What's your bottom line as far as helicopters flying into a very congested area like New York City?

GOELZ: Well, New York is actually had a pretty good record on that. I mean, helicopters in general have a higher accident rate than fixed-wing aircraft and tourists helicopter operations in general have gotten a lot of attention over the past 10 years, particularly in the Grand Canyon and in Hawaii. There have been a number of accidents in those areas in which the NTSB have look the at those very carefully.

But New York City has had -- the area there -- has had a pretty good accident record. There was a fatal accident back in the '90s with a corporate helicopter that went down, but it has had a good track record.

BLITZER: Now, Miles O'Brien is with us, as well. I think he wants to weigh in, Peter. Miles, you want to ask Peter Goelz anything?

O'BRIEN: Well, Yes. Peter, first of all, would this be something that the NTSB would likely send a go team to, given the fact, especially, that there's been two incidents?

GOELZ: Well, I think they would, particularly if there are fatalities on this one.

O'BRIEN: Right.

GOELZ: And given the high-profile coverage, that it's the second in four days, I think they would send a pretty good-sized team there.

O'BRIEN: And I'm wondering what would they be -- first be doing --what would be the first thing on their list? They want -- probably want to look for anything that would require some sort of emergency changes or notifications to the FAA. What would be first on your list?

GOELZ: Well, I think you want to get in and you want to get to the -- if the pilot and co-pilot have survived, you want to get to them and see what was going on. You want to review any air-traffic- control tapes that might have -- that might have occurred: What the pilots were saying. And then you've got to get to the wreckage as soon as possible. You've got to lift that stuff up and see what happened.

BLITZER: All right. Miles O'Brien, stand by.

Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB: The National Transportation Safety Board.

Thanks very much, for helping us better understand what's going on as we've been reporting now for almost an hour -- about 45 minutes, 50 minutes or so.

A second helicopter has gone down in the East River. This helicopter carrying eight people. We are told all eight have been rescued, although the helicopter itself -- we don't know what type -- it remains at the bottom of the East River, submerged. We have been seeing divers going into the waters, presumably looking for that helicopter.

The incident occurred just south of the United Nations on the east side of Manhattan right near the FDR Highway that goes up and down the east side of Manhattan.

These are live pictures, once again.

We see one of those passengers being removed in a stretcher.

Kathleen Koch, who covers aviation for us, is on the phone. She's getting some more information.

Kathleen, as we see this passenger -- we don't know who it is, being brought into this ambulance presumably to be taken to a local hospital. What have you learned, Kathleen?

I don't think we have Kathleen Koch available. We'll try to hook up and get that connection working.

Once again, these are live pictures from the east side of Manhattan. Mary Snow is our reporter on the scene in New York. Mary, have you been able to get additional information?

SNOW: Yes. Wolf, we don't have the exact conditions of the people who were brought out. But as you mentioned, the fire department saying that all eight people had been accounted for, four treated on the scene, four taken to Bellview Hospital.

And also, when we were speaking to Mike Luntz of the Coast Guard before, he mentioned the half moon boat that had helped to rescue three of the passengers on board. That was a private boat that was in the East River, according to officials that helped with that rescue effort.

We also are learning that we are expecting some kind of press conference or statement. We're not quite sure who is going to be addressing the media, but we do anticipate that in a short time. No exact time just now. But we are waiting for some more information.

So again, eight people have been accounted for. Fire department saying four of them taken to the hospital, four treated at the scene.

BLITZER: All right. Once again, these are live pictures from Manhattan.

Does it look to you, Mary -- it looks like regular traffic has resumed on the FDR over there. At least those cars are moving.

SNOW: Yes. That is actually one of the roads leading up to the FDR. We had reported earlier that northbound traffic had been closed off. But it does appear that it is now flowing once again.

BLITZER: All right. I think we've managed to get Kathleen Koch on the line. Kathleen, what are you being told?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, Lauren Paduzzi. And she says at this point, they have no plans to close any of the heliports in New York City, to tell them to stand down in any way. They don't believe that these two crashes coming though as close together as they have, are evidence of any sort of systemic problem with the heliports in New York City. The one thing that the NTSB has done is that they have already deployed investigators from their Parsippany, New Jersey office. So, if they are not there already, they're certainly on their way.

Now, they may be sending a press spokesperson from Washington, D.C., but no go team at this point.

BLITZER: Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board said -- we just heard him on CNN just a few moments ago, Kathleen, said there already is one team there from the earlier crash four days ago, presumably they could pick up some of the work right now since they're already on the scene.

KOCH: Possibly, Wolf. But also they possibly could have their hands full with that first investigation. And they try not to overload the investigators too much. They may indeed, again as Ms. Peduzzi said, be sending that separate team for that very reason.

BLITZER: To make sure that they have enough personnel, two helicopter crashes within four days.

There you see some of the first responders on shore, as well as in the water trying to make sure that everything gets back to normal as quickly as possible.

Eight people, we're told, aboard the helicopter. All eight are now on shore in varies conditions, several of them have been taken to a local hospital or hospitals in the area.

Miles O'Brien, you've covered a lot of crashes over the years. It was interesting when Peter Goelz was talking about the history of tourist helicopters having some significant problems in the Grand Canyon, in Hawaii. We've covered those stories over the years. But he did say that in New York City, the track record is pretty good.

O'BRIEN: Well, generally speaking -- you know, you've got to be careful not to make sweeping generalizations. But what happens, if you think about it for a moment, the mission of a tourist helicopter is to give somebody who's paid some money quite a thrill and a good view. And so there is a tendency to get a little closer to the ground and those kinds of situations lead to trouble.

A lot of what you see in New York is corporate type of activity. People going -- connecting to airports, going out to Long Island, whatever the case may be. Just a very expensive way of avoiding the traffic. And in that case, they're not there for sightseeing.

And so the idea is to, you know, take off, get away from the helipad, maintain as much altitude as you can as quickly as you can. It's a very different sort of flying. Frequently, almost all the time in those cases, two pilots. You have helicopters that are twin engine, you have helicopters that have full instrument capability, can fly in the clouds.

And so the type of helicopter flying that you see around New York City and the Tri-state area there is very different than the kind of thing you'd get out in to see Oahu or to take a look at the Grand Canyon where they're trying to go below the rim and give people a thrill.

BLITZER: It looks like they're trying to raise something, some debris or parts of a helicopter. Next to that boat, Miles, if you can see that picture, we see the ropes are attached to something. It could be part of the helicopter that went down in the East River.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I can't make it out from where I am right now Wolf. But clearly, you know, the good news is that they have gotten everybody out of there. And the fact that they're beginning essentially an salvage operation right now is good news.

Let's hope that those people that got them out quickly enough, because that -- at this point now, the key is to get as much of that out of there so the investigators can do their job.

BLITZER: This picture you can see, those rescue workers on the side of that boat. That's a New York City boat. It looks like there's some white debris or something there. There's a better shot you can see from this angle, courtesy of our affiliate WABC. It looks like they're trying to bring something up that may or may not be part of the helicopter, bring it up to shore. And we'll continue to monitor that from these various angles that we have.

There's no doubt, though, that this is going to cause some alarm bells in New York City and elsewhere. Two helicopter crashes in the same East River within a period of four days. We're told eight people aboard this helicopter, seven aboard the helicopter that went down earlier in the week.

All eight of these individuals, two pilots, six passengers, apparently are -- they're alive, they're on shore, they're in various hospitals or being treated elsewhere.

Let's listen into our affiliate WABC and see what they have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. There was no fire or anything. It was just like a -- it just broke apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were telling me earlier that once you saw that, you jumped into action, got out of your car and went towards the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never got to my car. I just got my key from the hut. And then once I saw that, I ran towards where it happened, which is about, you know, 50 yards away. And I -- you know, upon getting there I saw about four guys about five guys, three of them were clinging on to one piece of the helicopter. And one was separated on a separate piece. And then I think there were two other guys.

So the one that was closest to me, I ran towards there. I jump over the concrete wall at the bottom by the water and I stretched my leg out. I said, here, just grab on to this. And he grabbed on to my leg. Then I was able to pull him in. But he was about four feet below the wall. So, we formed like a human chain. The guys grabbed my hand on top. And I grab him onto the shore and we pulled him out of the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said....

BLITZER: All right. So we'll continue to monitor this situation. A helicopter crash south of the United Nations in the East River of Manhattan. Second time within four days a helicopter has gone down. Eight people aboard this helicopter: six passengers, two pilots.

We believe based on what fire and rescue officials, police have told us, all eight are on shore right now.

We'll continue to watch what's going on. We'll take a quick break. When we come back, we'll update you on earthquakes, the disaster that occurred on the West Coast yesterday, another earthquake. What's going on there? Much more coverage of the East Coast and the West Coast when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: These are live pictures. The East River, looks like this is where the helicopter that went down about an hour or so ago -- the local authorities are trying to rescue, trying to recover some of that helicopter. It looks like they have a little piece of it on the side over there. Eight people aboard the helicopter, six passengers, two pilots. All are on shore in various conditions. Some have been taken to a local hospital, the Bellevue Hospital. We're watching all of this.

This is the second time within four days that a helicopter has gone down in the East River. We'll get some more information and update you on that as soon as it becomes available.

At this time yesterday, we were dealing with another kind of breaking news story, an earthquake in Southern California. Indeed from north to south, millions of Californians have now been shaken over these past few days by a series of moderate-to-powerful earthquakes. And as always, with swarms like these, some are wondering if they're a sign of something bigger to come.

CNN's Brian Todd has been speaking with experts. He's joining us now live from the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia. What are they saying, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they have not been this busy here since the Asian tsunami back in December. Now, if anything happens during the course of my report, we'll be able to see it here on this seismograph. This is live. It monitors up to the minute seismic activity around the world. The sensor for this particular machine is in Alaska.

I'm going to take you quickly to this digital map, where it reflects seismic activity all over the world, especially, you can see, very heavy activity in the Pacific Rim. The yellow circles reflect activity over the past weeks and month; the orange reflect activity more recent in recent days.

There's constant seismic activity in the Pacific Rim, but what has gone on in California over the past five days has a lot of people nervous.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): At Hollywood Park racetrack, the horses didn't cause the commotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn't thunder, folks. That was the ground shaking.

TODD: In Englewood, Yucaipa and throughout Southern California, they dodged injury and serious damage this time, but residents still get those familiar pangs of anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have earthquake insurance. I can say I'm really glad that we have it.

TODD: Seismologists cannot tell her if she'll need to kick in that policy in the future, but they're keeping a close eye on her area in Yucaipa, where Thursday's 4.9 magnitude quake hit between two plate of the San Andreas fault. Add that to three other quakes in California or offshore, including an aftershock registering 6.6, a massive and deadly earthquake that rocked northern Chile, another in a series of tremblers in the Aleutian Island chain off Alaska, plus a moderate earthquake in the tsunami-ravaged Aceh province in Indonesia, all occurred this week. Are they connected?

MICHAEL BLANPIED, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: They're really not connected in any sort of obvious way, except that the Earth is a dynamic, earthquake-producing body. All around the Pacific, we have earthquakes every week.

TODD: Experts say many of these quakes are on different fault lines. But they're also in the so-called Ring of Fire in the Pacific Rim. And seismologists say when an earthquake occurs, it relieves geological stress in one place and builds that stress in another.

In California, events in this kind of succession revive the inevitable question -- is that massive quake predicted along the San Andreas fault, the big one, on the way?

BLANPIED: The big one is always on the way in California, because we know that the faults in California are capable of producing great earthquakes that will do considerable damage. However, the occurrence of these moderate earthquakes this week does not mean in any kind of obvious way that we understand that there's a big one immediately on the way.

TODD: Some experts are more worried about the Sumatran coast in Indonesia, the general area where the tsunami hit last December. That event, plus another massive offshore quake nearby in March, they say, could foreshadow an earthquake in that region that could get up to a magnitude 9.0.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Now, just for perspective, the largest earthquake ever recorded was a 9.5. That was along the coast of Chile in 1960.

Now, experts say despite the fact that they cannot predict when, where and how strong the next big earthquake will be, the value of what we have seen this week is that people all over the Pacific Rim are now more aware of the danger and will be better prepared when that earthquake does hit -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, that needle next to you, I take it it hasn't really moved very dramatically over the past two minutes?

TODD: No, no, not over the past two minutes, not over the past 24 hours. A little bit over the past 24 hours, not much.

BLITZER: OK, Brian Todd, reporting for us from the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia. Brian, thanks very much.

We'll take another quick break. When we come back, we'll go to Iraq. There are dramatic developments unfolding right now. A major U.S. military operation under way. We'll take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: They call it Operation Spear. The U.S. military says it's a powerful thrust into the heart of an insurgent stronghold right by the Syrian border. But the fighting right now is fierce. CNN's Jane Arraf is with the troops in the town of Karbala. She has our exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): There's been an intense battle here for hours. This is the city of Karbala, 60,000 people very close to the Syrian border. And what the Marines say is a safe haven, a stronghold, of foreign fighters and insurgents.

They rolled in here early in the morning with 1,000 troops, including Iraqi troops, to go out through parts of the city. And as they did, they were met by gunfire, by rockets, by mortars, and by rocket-propelled grenades.

They responded with almost every weapon at their disposal, launching bombs, in some cases 2,000-pound JDAMs launched on houses believed to be housing insurgents and foreign fighters. In other cases, there was gunfire throughout the day.

And (INAUDIBLE) now that the battle is not over yet. Marine commanders say that this has become a place where foreign fighters in some cases are making their last stand. They're trying to rout them out, and make sure that this does not continue to be part of the pipeline, they say, for foreign fighters from Syria into the west of Iraq. Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Korabola (ph), Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: I had reported she was in Karbala. She's in Korabola (ph), which is a different location on the Syrian border. Jane Arraf reporting for us.

We want to apologize to the son of the late shah of Iran, Reza Pahlavi. He was going to be our guest today. Unfortunately, the breaking news, the helicopter crash in New York City has prevented that, but he will be back here on this program next week.

Remember, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS 5:00 p.m. Eastern weekdays. I'll be back on Monday. On Sunday, though, on "LATE EDITION," my special guest, the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. That's Sunday, noon Eastern, "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now, Lou standing by in New York -- Lou.

END

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