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Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace for June 23, 2005, CNNHN

Aired June 23, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news from the island of Aruba. Aruban Judge Paul Van Der Sloot arrested. That`s right, a judge arrested and behind bars tonight, bringing the total to five men in custody in connection with the disappearance of 18-year-old Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway. Natalee vanished into thin air while on her high school senior trip to Aruba.
And tonight, stunning developments in John Evander Couey case out of Florida, the convicted sex offender charged in the kidnap and murder of 9- year-old Jessica Lunsford.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

New documents revealed tonight in the case of convicted sex offender John Evander Couey, facing trial for the murder of 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford, documents that will either make or break the case for Florida prosecutors.

But first, breaking news from the tiny island of Aruba. In a shocking turn of events, Aruban police arrest Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, the father of the young man last seen with 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, Joran Van Der Sloot.

Tonight, in Aruba, Natalee`s stepfather, George Twitty is with us; in New York, defense attorneys Jason Oshins and Richard Herman; also with us, psychotherapist Caryn Stark.

But first, let`s go to Aruba and CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Karl, it takes a lot to get a judge behind bars. What`s going on?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, as you know, over the weekend, Judge Paul Van Der Sloot was interviewed twice by police. At that stage, they say they were interviewing him as a possible witness not a suspect.

But today, I was talking to Anita Van Der Sloot. That`s his wife and the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot. She was telling me that she had just come back from visiting Joran in prison, that neighbors notified her and husband Paul that there were police vans around the neighborhood.

And so they went to the north police station, said to the police, "What`s going on?" And at that stage, the police said, "We`re detaining you," and he`s been interrogated now for the best part of six hours, Nancy.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, in Aruba, do they have the right to take, as we call it, the Fifth, and not speak whatsoever?

PENHAUL: That I can`t tell you. What I can tell you is that the burden of evidence at this stage to arrest somebody is relatively low. Unlike in the U.S., they don`t have to charge people at this stage. As the time of the detention goes on, that`s when the burden of proof tends to increase.

So it may be that, at this stage, they haven`t got a huge amount of evidence. But they have arrested him, and they are saying that it is in connection that he is suspected of being involved with Natalee`s disappearance in some way, Nancy.

GRACE: Jason Oshins is with us, a veteran defense attorney. Jason, this could be anything from something as simple as the father removing Natalee`s sandal from the back of the car, to the father knowing where Natalee is, to the father knowing where Natalee is disposed of, to covering for his son.

It could be a myriad of possibilities, with him being named as a suspect. But I can tell you this right now, Jason Oshins, when a man takes off and runs from questions, literally runs away when somebody asks him a question, well, OK, there`s a problem, all right, Jason?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I agree with you. I think it could be a whole host of any of those things. But more importantly for the government of Aruba is they`re hemorrhaging, as it comes to tourism, tourists who are booking now for the future. They need to get to the bottom of this.

I mean, clearly there is tremendous pressure, I`m sure, by the government to do whatever they can. And this is not a light event that they`re arresting this judge right here.

GRACE: Hey, hey, Jason, there is the shot of the judge literally running away from Karl Penhaul who is asking him questions, running, physically, running away.

Very quickly to Richard Herman, also a defense attorney. Richard, it could also be something as simple as a strategy to get the son to talk. In other words, "Hey, your dad`s behind bars. You happy now? You willing to talk to us?"

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. But to answer your question earlier, under Aruban law, they do not have to answer any questions. It`s like taking the Fifth. They can keep quiet, although they have to subject themselves to a minimum of six hours of interrogation.

After that, within this next hour, during your show, between 8:00 and 9:00, the prosecutor is going make a determination whether to keep him for another 48 hours. After that period of time, they must go before a judge.

GRACE: Let`s go now to a very special guest joining us from Aruba, there with Karl Penhaul, Natalee`s stepfather, George Twitty.

Sir, thank you for being with us.

GEORGE TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Sir, what was your reaction to the arrest of a judge in connection with Natalee`s disappearance?

TWITTY: Quite glad to see it happen. I mean, I think everybody knows that I`ve felt from the beginning that he does hold some pieces of the puzzle that we`re trying to figure out here.

GRACE: Why do you think that, Mr. Twitty? What does a judge know about where Natalee is?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, I confronted him on the first night that I was here. And just from what some conversation that we had -- and I probably spent a total of maybe an hour-and-a-half between two different places with he and his son. And you know, when a judge stands there and tells his son, "You say nothing. You say nothing."

You know, if he didn`t have anything to hide, you know, he shouldn`t have said that. And you know, the whole deal, this whole deal about, you know, Joran being such a wonderful kid and all this, "He`s a great kid," well, I don`t buy that.

I met the boy that night. You know, he was out that night until 3 o`clock, 3:30 in the morning. And obviously, we know by timelines, he was out the night before. And when his mother comes on the air and tells that he`s a wonderful kid and wouldn`t do this and wouldn`t do that, evidently they don`t know their child very well.

GRACE: Well, Mr. Twitty, I can tell you this much. If I came home in high school at 3:30 in the morning, I would be locked in the attic and still be there right now. So I`m taking a listen to what you`re saying.

So he actually said -- this judge actually said to the son, "Don`t speak. Don`t say a word to police"?

TWITTY: Well, he said, "You need to say nothing. You need to say nothing." And you know, if it was my son, George, who is a wonderful kid and he was in this situation, and they have nothing to hide, Nancy, wouldn`t you, like, the next morning be out there trying to help us find Natalee?

Wouldn`t you be calling me and saying, "Look, Jug, I know Joran was with her last night, but he had nothing to do with it. I want to help you guys." I mean, his father should have been over here the next morning helping in the search.

You know, when we went over yesterday, or the day before, Beth went in the mother`s house and gave her the bracelet. And shows it on TV. "Look, I`m wearing her bracelet." To me, that`s a joke. I mean, they should have been over here -- if they had nothing to hide, just like -- you know the favorite -- my favorite thing on TV, and I haven`t watched TV until last three or four days, is when he runs to that car, because you...

GRACE: You know what? I was just about to ask.

Elizabeth and Renee, could you run that video, please?

We`re talking about the judge now behind bars. With us is Natalee`s stepfather, Mr. George Twitty. Go ahead, sir.

TWITTY: Are you talking to me?

GRACE: Yes, sir, we`re showing the video right now of the judge hightailing it.

TWITTY: All right, Nancy, if I had nothing to hide -- and, you know, we have seen several cases in the United States -- wouldn`t you come out of the courtroom and say, "You know, I have no comment," and just walk calmly to your car? You say, you know, "I have nothing to hide, no comment." Why run to your car?

GRACE: Well, the other issue is, if you don`t have anything to hide, why would you tell your son, "Don`t speak to police"?

TWITTY: I don`t know. I think that`s why they`re having such a tough time right now getting him to say anything. I think this was -- this is my opinion. It`s just my opinion.

But he`s been coached from the beginning, you know, "Say nothing, even when you get to jail, or you get arrested," or whatever. You know, I think his dad has told him, you know, not to say anything.

GRACE: Well, Mr. Twitty, under Dutch law, we`re not really getting a whole lot of information. But this much I do know.

I do know that our sources say, originally, the three young men, including Van Der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers, last seen with Natalee, they originally had the same statement that they dropped her off at the Holiday Inn where she was staying, that she stumbled on her way in, and someone in a security guard outfit helped her and they drove off.

Now, at some point, they all had the same story. My question is, where did they get that story? Because they`ve long since abandoned that story. And now pointing the fingers at each other. So where did that original story come from, Mr. Twitty?

TWITTY: That story came from the night we went to his house. We brought him back to the Holiday Inn and heard the whole story. That story was what they told us at 4 o`clock in the morning at the Holiday Inn in front of the security guards, and the front desk, and everything. That was the original story, which you could see -- I personally could tell that -- you know, well, I didn`t believe it at that time.

GRACE: Why didn`t you believe it?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, I guess I read people pretty well. And you can -- I had six friends with me down there that night. They all were sitting there -- you could tell the guy wasn`t telling the truth.

GRACE: Who was doing...

TWITTY: They made him -- they made Paul Van Der Sloot stand outside because he was such an obnoxious guy, that the actual guards said, "Sir, you`ll have to stand outside."

And you know, just if you have nothing to hide, why not try to help us? Why not -- we were down here to find Natalee. And he was the last one seen with Natalee. So you know, he knows something.

And I know what -- I`m going tell you -- I`ve heard what Karl said. I heard what your guest said there. But I`ve been here 24 days. And I`ve seen how this works down here. They have something, or they would not have arrested him today, because they are not going to be embarrassed, as far as this thing is going, they -- the way they do it here is that, when they arrest somebody, in my opinion, they have good evidence and a reason to do that.

GRACE: Well, I thought that, too, until they arrested those two security guards that had never seen or heard of Natalee Holloway.

TWITTY: OK. Well, I agree with you there. I can`t argue there.

GRACE: Yes. I mean, right off the bat, Mr. Twitty, when they arrested those two, and these other three that were seen leaving the bar with her were wandering around free, right there, that smelled. That stunk.

But I`ve got to ask you something. You`re saying that got these guys in and asked them that night, and you got the sense that they were not telling the truth. Were they acting odd, oddly?

TWITTY: Absolutely. I mean, you know, when he comes over and confronts my wife, and says, "What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?" You know, this is the young Van Der Sloot, you know. You just had to have been there, Nancy. I mean, I can`t explain it to you.

But I can promise you, from the night guard or the night manager at the Holiday Inn, she even told me after, she says, "These boys are not telling the truth." I mean, they spoke half in Dutch, half in English. And you know, there was a lot of people there. But you know, you could just tell. I read people pretty well. And so...

GRACE: Well, even this statement, Mr. Twitty, this statement that the boy, Van Der Sloot, says, "I took her down to the beach. It was around 2:00 a.m. And she wanted to stay there, so I left her there alone." Why would she want to stay down at a beach at 2:00 a.m. at night by herself? I`m just not buying it.

TWITTY: Well, she wouldn`t. I hadn`t even heard that statement. That`s news to me. I don`t even know that statement.

I mean, there have been so many coming out. I just know that their original statement, which they told me, and which you`ve already stated, now they`ve changed that statement. So you know, we just have to get to the bottom of it.

And you asked me about arresting the judge. Yes, everybody knows my feelings about this guy. He knows more than he`s saying. So they need to put pressure on him. They need to get the answers.

GRACE: Mr. Twitty, do you think that they arrested him because of something he said during the last two days of interrogation?

TWITTY: I don`t know that. I know there is a lot of conflicting stories that supposedly my friends have heard, and that I`ve heard, and what he said that night. And you know, there`s a lot of conflicting stories.

So I can tell you, I do believe that the police are doing a good job. And I was happy when that happened today. And I think that maybe we can -- we`re moving a lot faster. Today was a big day.

GRACE: Well, you know, Mr. Twitty, you said something. This is a shot of the judge, Judge Van Der Sloot, running, literally, breaking out into a jog, and running away from CNN`s Karl Penhaul as he`s trying to ask the judge questions about Natalee Holloway.

Back to Natalee`s stepfather, who is kind enough to be with us tonight. Mr. Twitty, you said that the Aruban officials are very careful. And you know what? When you take a judge into custody and name him as a suspect, you`re darn right...

TWITTY: Can I stop you right there, Nancy?

GRACE: Yes, sir?

TWITTY: He`s not a judge.

GRACE: What is he?

TWITTY: I`m not sure what he is, but he is not a judge.

GRACE: You know, we have heard so many conflicting...

TWITTY: From what I understand, he is not a judge.

GRACE: We have been told he is a judge. He is a judge in training. He is a judge that recently got on the bench. We`ve heard a lot of conflicting stories.

TWITTY: OK, what I think -- I think we need to do some more research. I mean, I`m not sure. I`m not going to say what he is or what he isn`t. But he is not a judge.

GRACE: Mr. Twitty is with us. This is Natalee`s stepfather, there with CNN`s Karl Penhaul. We are live in Aruba. Natalee Holloway, where are you?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF SUSPECT IN MISSING PERSON CASE: I think it`s ridiculous. But, of course, it hurts. It hurts, because my husband gave 50 years of his integrity to this island. And that this could happen is just so bizarre.

Because in my conversation with Joran, Joran said, "Mommy, I`m so afraid. They`re picking up daddy because that`s what they`re telling me. They`re going to pick him up because -- to ask him about all kind of things. And they think he`s involved in anything. And I don`t want this to happen, and they should have respect for him."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was Anita Van Der Sloot, the wife of, we believe, Judge Van Der Sloot, the mother of this young man, Joran Van Der Sloot, last seen with an 18-year-old Alabama beauty, Natalee Holloway.

She has not -- oh, hello! There is the judge right there, at least his back end, as he is running -- hello, marathon runner -- sprinting away from hard questions. Why are you running? I`d like to ask him that myself. But I can`t, because he`s behind bars tonight.

Let`s go straight down to Aruba. Standing by, CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. And with us, a very special guest, Natalee`s stepfather, Mr. George Twitty.

To Karl Penhaul, Karl, you have been down there studying the Aruba legal system. What is this guy? Is he a judge, a judge in training, a new judge, a law clerk? What is he?

PENHAUL: A lot of what we have been seeing over the last few days and weeks, Nancy, comes down to terminology. What Paul Van Der Sloot himself refers to himself as is a judge. We put that question to him shortly after Joran`s arrest a couple of weeks ago.

Antonio Carlo, that`s the attorney for Joran Van Der Sloot, also refers to Paul Van Der Sloot as a judge. Specifically, we understand that he`s in his early stages of judgeship. He has presided over some cases, seems that he was fast-tracked on this judge`s -- to this judge`s position. Before that, though, he was an official with the prosecution service on the island, Nancy.

GRACE: To Mr. Twitty, Natalee`s stepfather, Mr. Twitty, again, thank you for being with us. We`re thousands of miles away just trying to figure out the mystery of where is Natalee Holloway. What do you think this guy, this judge, knows about Natalee`s disappearance? Do you think he was covering for his son?

TWITTY: Possibly. I mean, you know how -- I mean, if my son had done something, you know, it`s just a father`s intuition to get in there and try to help their son. But in a case like this, this is out of hand.

And he knows more than he`s saying. That`s all I know for sure, because I know he`s already told me face-to-face things that happened and they`ve already changed that statement so...

GRACE: Mr. Twitty, what was it the dad, the judge, said to you that has changed?

TWITTY: It`s not exactly what he said. It`s just the whole conversation that we had the night, you know -- when we got here, we actually arrived and got to the judge`s house within -- we figured out where we were going, who we had to go find and everything within three hours after we arrived on the island, so...

GRACE: So that initial conversation told you something was wrong?

TWITTY: Right, oh, absolutely.

GRACE: So, Karl Penhaul, what`s next? Is the judge in the same facility as his son?

PENHAUL: No. His son is now at the KIA, that`s the Aruba correctional institute. That`s down at the east end of the island, because after a certain number of days, all these suspects are moved to the prison. That`s a remand center that they`ve got at the prison.

Judge Van Der Sloot is currently in the north police station, just a couple of miles where we are. There he`s being interrogated, Nancy.

GRACE: We are about to take you down to Florida in the latest in the John Evander Couey case. We`ll be back in Aruba in just a moment.

But to "Trial Tracking." As we go to air tonight, three little boys still missing from Camden, New Jersey, Jesstin Pagan, Daniel Agosto, and Anibal Cruz, just 5-, 6- and 11-years-old. Please, look at these boys. They disappeared while playing outside Anibal`s home just yesterday evening. Cruz`s mom says she was watching the three, went inside to check on the oven, came back, all three gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELBA CRUZ, MOTHER OF ANIBAL "JUNY" CRUZ: Manny, Danny and Juny, if you`re watching this, please come home. You`re not in trouble. We just want you home. Please come back home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police got multiple reports of several sightings, but cannot find these three children. If you have any information, please call the Camden police, 856-757-7400.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Natalee Holloway disappeared on her high school senior trip in Aruba. A massive search continues on the tiny island. Tonight, a judge behind bars, in custody in connection with her disappearance.

I`ve only got a few seconds left in this segment, but I want to go to Mr. Twitty, Natalee`s stepfather. Mr. Twitty, if you could speak out to the people that know where Natalee is tonight, what would you say?

TWITTY: Well, I would just say that, you know, I hope they`ll help us. I`ll tell you, Nancy, today has been a big day. I`m happy about what`s happened with the judge. And as I understand they`re going to retain him at least for another 48 hours, which is, in my opinion, really good news.

And you know, all the Texas people came. Everybody asked about the Texas search team or whatever. These guys are pretty sharp. I met with them today. And I`ll have to say, my brother-in-law, Paul Reynolds in Texas, eventually put this together.

And thanks to everybody that helped with this, but these guys are bringing in great equipment. And we`re looking forward to that. So it`s a big day today. We`re moving quickly now.

GRACE: Our prayers with you, Mr. Twitty.

Very quickly, Karl Penhaul, I`ve got 30 seconds left. Update?

PENHAUL: We`ve just heard from the police commissioner, Jan Van Der Straten, that Judge Paul Van Der Sloot will be held for an additional 48 hours for interrogation, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, you know what, Karl? That is the same pattern we`ve seen with the other three behind bars tonight. Everybody, we will be back in Aruba. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: I felt it. Look, I called it. I felt it. And I think we`re getting closer. I don`t know what to say, other than, you know, I kind of felt it in my heart from day one since I`ve been here. But I know the police have done a good job and they`re doing everything they can do to get to the bottom of it and maybe this is their way of getting there. But I know that he has some idea of what happened that night. And hopefully, this will bring us closer to finding Natalee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Before we take you to Florida and the latest in the John Evander Couey case -- documents revealed today will make or break the state`s case. Remember the death and disappearance of 9- year-old Jessie Lunsford?

We`ll take you to Florida in just one moment, but I want you to meet two very special people joining us tonight from Aruba. Patrick Murphy is with us and Joe Houston. They are part of a team that`s gone down on their own dime from America to help in the search for Natalee Holloway.

To Patrick Murphy, where have you searched so far?

PATRICK MURPHY, SEARCH COORDINATOR FOR HOLLOWAY FAMILY: Well, we have probably searched the whole island. We`ve gone all the way around the whole perimeter. We`ve been on four-wheelers. We`ve been in the bushes. We`ve been in the air and helicopter two times. So we`ve -- I`ve been down here twice already, probably a total of maybe a week-and-a-half of searching.

GRACE: And to Joe Houston -- sir, I want to hear about the dogs that you are using in the search. Can you tell me about them?

JOE HOUSTON, PART OF TEAM SEARCHING FOR NATALEE: Texas Equusearch is bringing in three cadaver dog teams. A cadaver dog is a dog that has specifically been trained in order to be able to check for decaying and rotting flesh. The three teams we have on standby right now that are coming in tomorrow are three of the best, highly-rated teams, dog teams in the country from the standpoint of recovering deceased individuals.

GRACE: Joe Houston, what has led you to Aruba?

HOUSTON: I represent Texas Equusearch, and Natalee`s uncle contacted us on Sunday afternoon, Father`s Day weekend. Tim Miller, our director, talked with him. After three or four hours of conversations, Tim made the decision that even though it would take a lot to get together, he decided that we could come down here and help. We knew, following the news on the case and watching what was going on very closely, considering that we`ve been in the search-and-recovery business since 2000, done in excess of 450 searches.

GRACE: Wow. And Patrick Murphy, what led you to Aruba?

MURPHY: Well, I live in the Cayman Islands, and I was watching the story unfolding. And I`m actually from the area where Natalee is from. And basically, I saw the -- basically, I saw where Beth had on CNN on the bottom had asked help, wanted some volunteers, need some help down here. And I told my wife, I need to go to Aruba and help out.

GRACE: Joe Houston and Patrick Murphy heard the call to help find Natalee. They are in Aruba tonight. Gentlemen, thank you.

HOUSTON: Thank you.

MURPHY: Thank you.

GRACE: Everybody, we are switching gears. I know you haven`t forgotten 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford. Jessie went missing. There was a massive search in Homosassa Springs, Florida. Little Jessie`s body was found. Behind bars awaiting trial, convicted child molester John Evander Couey.

Stunning documents revealed tonight regarding Jessie`s treatment at the hands of John Evander Couey. Tonight in Washington, Jessica Lunsford`s father, Mark Lunsford. But first to Miami and CNN Correspondent Susan Candiotti. Susan, welcome back, friend. Bring us up to date.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, you will remember that some time ago, we sadly reported that John Couey had told authorities that he had buried alive 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford. Well, today, in the court file, the release of John Couey`s alleged confession. You`ll remember he was first interviewed by FBI agents, apparently broke down to them and then gave this statement to police after he was read his rights not once, not twice, not three times, but at least four times.

In it, he acknowledges -- in this written statement, taken down by the police -- that he did bury Jessica alive. He says in his words, quote, "I`m a sick person. I don`t even know why I did it to her. I was stupid for doing it," he says. He calls her -- and describes her as a polite child, that he went into the house, as we`ve heard before, and he told her to be quiet. He allowed her to take a little stuffed toy with her. He took her back over to the house, and he took a ladder to get into his bedroom. And he claims that he kept her in his closet for at least two to three nights.

He claims that he fed her, gave her water, and according to our sources, he seemed to take pride in the fact that aside from sexually molesting her and allegedly raping her, that he did not physically beat her or cut her. He even says to police that he allowed her to watch television and that he says she could see that there was a search going on for her. Sadly, he says that he -- that, "She told me her dad would be looking for her."

And then on the third night, he claims, he allegedly raped her. He then went outside, dug a hole, he said, that was above his waist. He put the little girl -- tied her up, her hands, and put her in two plastic garbage bags. That, of course, is where she was found.

The police say that he said, Did he have any message for Jessica, if he could talk to her? And he says, "I`m so sorry, sorry sorry. I wish you were alive and you could walk to your parents. I`m sorry. that`s all I can say" -- Nancy.

GRACE: You know, Susan, I`ve got tell you, that report is just stunning to me. And I am grateful that they Mirandized him not once but four times. Richard Herman, clearly, police Mirandizing him four times was for a reason. What is that?

HERMAN: Well, Nancy, you know, the defense is going to try to block that statement. And if at any time during that questioning under Florida law, if this Evander Couey made a representation that he wanted an attorney, anything -- any statement signed after that would be precluded. And that`s, I`m sure, what the defense is going to try to do here.

GRACE: Couey told detectives, Jason Oceans (ph), that he placed the little girl in a garbage bag, that she lay down in the hole without a fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s horrible, Nancy. It`s just overwhelming, whether or not you`re a defense or whoever you are. Obviously, you have a job. It`s just overwhelming to hear. It pulls at the very heartstrings that you have in life to hear that such a predator, you know, is out there. And that`s what Mr. Lunsford`s all about now, is trying to work harder at getting the federal government involved and state governments in following and categorizing these predators, so that the public is aware of who`s out there.

GRACE: You know, here in the studio with me, psychologist Caryn Stark. Couey admitted to smoking crack cocaine and drinking, said he was foggy the day he abducted 9-year-old Jessica. But he remembers raping her repeatedly before killing her. Do you see a defense of voluntary intoxication and drug use?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Not at all. He has a prior history of being a sex offender, Nancy. And we know that the reason that all of this was happening was because this man gets turned on by the fact that he`s doing these terrible things. It`s not that he feels sorry. He can`t help himself. He keeps doing it because it`s something that excites him.

GRACE: With us is Jessica`s father. Mr. Lunsford, I hate -- I know you know all these facts already, but I hate to even say them out loud to you and have you hear them again. I hate that it`s hurting you to hear this. But I want people to know what you are doing in Washington.

MARK LUNSFORD, JESSICA`S FATHER: I`m in Washington. I`d like to thank Chairman Sensenbrenner for his leadership role and for everybody that`s trying to help me and support the efforts of coming up with federal laws to keep these people away from our children. Our children are the weakest of our group, and they depend on the parents to keep them safe. And we keep on -- we depend on our state and our federal congressmen and all these people to help us. And we need to keep them safe and we need to keep these people behind bars and we need to make some changes.

And I need the chairman on the Senate side to help and let this be a bipartisan subject and to make these changes as quickly as we can. We`ve got three more kids in New Jersey -- and I`ve been to New Jersey and trying to make changes, and they won`t do it. I`ve been to New York trying to make changes and reforms in Megan`s law, and simply been bucked up against them. What is it that you don`t understand about saving our children?

GRACE: Mr. Lunsford, I`ve got to ask you, when you hear these facts about Jessie`s death and the way she was treated, where do you get the strength to just keep on fighting?

LUNSFORD: That`s not strength, it`s Jessie carrying me. Couey is a pathological liar. He`s a piece of (DELETED). Sorry, but it`s the truth. And if he was so willing to leave Jessie alone and afraid to go as she wanted to, then why`d he tie her up and put her in a hole?

GRACE: It just hurts me so much, not only the way she was treated but to let her see the TV and know that her daddy was looking for her -- it just -- just...

LUNSFORD: I think Couey`s a liar. Him and that other guy, Onstott, they need to be put to death, and so do the rest of them.

GRACE: With us from Washington, Jessie`s daddy, Mark Lunsford. Also with us, CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. She has covered so many cases, but she also covered this one from the beginning there in Homosassa Springs. And I`m sure you remember her reports.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTH LUNSFORD, JESSICA`S GRANDMOTHER: It makes me feel bad that we still don`t know where Jessie is. But at least they`ve got -- got somebody. Maybe he can tell us something. Maybe he did do it. I sure hope he did, so that we can get this settled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, we all know the ending to the story of Jessie`s disappearance, and covering it from the very beginning for CNN was Susan Candiotti. Tonight she reveals documents that will either make or break the state`s case. Back to Susan Candiotti. What now, Susan?

CANDIOTTI: Well, Nancy, it appears, according to the prosecutor -- he thinks there`ll be a change of venue in this case. That`s not written in stone just yet, I don`t believe. But there is some just -- some very curious things about this statement. For example, Mr. Couey, according to this, says he can`t figure out why the bloodhounds didn`t pick up his track. Now, it`s possible the weather, which was a bit rainy, might have had something to do with this.

But remember the location. He lived practically behind where the command post was set up, yet was somehow able to dig this hole in the night without anything -- anyone noticing.

He also repeatedly says that in his opinion, Jessica had several chances to escape. Now, again, this is very odd. He keeps saying she had chances to get out. She could have beat on the wall. She knew that I was going to the kitchen or I was sleeping. Why didn`t she leave? And yet -- so the police ask him, Well, why didn`t you just let her go? And he`s quoted as saying, I was scared. And he`s asked, What were you afraid of? And he says, Going to prison, like I am now.

And he keeps saying, "I needed help. I needed help. I know I have this problem." And then, finally, he adds, "I mean, I want to get help." I`m reading from this transcript. He says, "I don`t even care if they gave me the electric chair."

GRACE: Well, you know what? Be careful what you ask for, Couey, for you will surely get it! You know, Susan, I know you`re just reporting the facts, as you have from the get-go. But I can hardly stand to hear this guy saying it`s her fault, a 9-year-old girl, because she had a chance to get away and she didn`t! And it`s all about him, Susan! What were you afraid of, That I would go prison? That I would go to prison? He`s not afraid that this girl would die? Did he show any remorse for this girl?

CANDIOTTI: Well, he`s quoted as saying, "I`m sorry, I`m sorry, I`m sorry." Of course, Nancy, it would be difficult for any of us. It is difficult to read this transcript. Imagine what it must be like for Mark Lunsford and the rest of the Lunsford family.

GRACE: You know, Caryn Stark, psychotherapist with us, in the -- in the statement he gives, he describes the little girl was bleeding after his sex attacks on her and after all -- how he would feed her hamburger to keep her alive so he could continue to torment her. Is there any way out for him on an insanity defense, Caryn? Please tell me no.

STARK: No. I don`t think so, Nancy. I mean, he just sounds too much coherent, and he offers this thing that she could have gotten away. He knows all the details. He doesn`t sound insane. And I just want to add that this little girl could not have gotten way. She was already traumatized. He was doing all these things to her. It`s ridiculous to even believe that she`d be able to leave.

GRACE: Jason Oceans, any chance this guy could get off on insanity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don`t think so, Nancy. But then, again, you know, attorneys have to do what they have to do. You have to try and use, you know, and hold up the Constitution, if you will, even in horrendous cases. It works for all of us...

GRACE: So is that a yes or a no? Will it work or won`t it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think so, Nancy. I really don`t. He`s a predator with a prior conviction.

GRACE: Richard Herman, yes, no, will insanity work?

HERMAN: I don`t think so, Nancy. It`s not California. I think they`re going to get this guy.

GRACE: Richard Herman and Jason Oceans, veteran defense attorneys. Heartbreak, everybody.

Go to go to trial tracking. Today, 80-year-old former Klansman Edgar Ray Killen gets 60 years behind bars 40 years after the murder of three Civil Rights workers in Mississippi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I take no pleasure at all in pronouncing sentencing. The three gentlemen who was killed -- each life has value, and each life is equally as valuable as the other life. And I have taken that into consideration, that there are three lives involved in this case and the three lives should absolutely be respected and treated equally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, Judge Marcus Gordon (ph) didn`t give any senior citizen discounts. A jury found Killen guilty of arranging kidnap, beating, shooting of Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwoerner, James Chaney, three young Civil Rights workers in Mississippi. I spoke with their mom, and she said her reaction, bittersweet.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the anti-freeze murder trial 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern tomorrow, Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us as we remember Captain John Maloney, 36, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Jessie Lunsford, what a beauty. I will never forget her in this little pink hat. One of the most intensive searches in Florida history for the 9-year-old who went missing from her grandparents` home. They tucked her in themselves. They woke up, she was gone. Her body was discovered just a couple of hundred feet away from her home.

Welcome back, everybody. With me, in addition to our fine panel, Susan Candiotti, the CNN correspondent who covered the story from the get- go, and Jessie`s father, Mark Lunsford. Susan, what`s next?

CANDIOTTI: Well, of course, the trial has to run its course. And there are pre-trial conferences and status hearings, and that`s pretty much where we are now. The autopsy report was also released this day, which shows that she was sexually assaulted and lists the cause of death as suffocation, Nancy.

GRACE: You know, Mark, when I look at Jessie`s picture, it`s so hard for me to gibe with us talking about pre-trial conference hearings and status reports.

LUNSFORD: It`s -- if it was left up to me, we wouldn`t even have a trial. These people don`t need to be around. They don`t deserve a trial. I don`t care about the ACLU. These people don`t even have no rights at all. Anybody like this that would pull a heinous crime on a child don`t deserve (DELETED). Sorry.

GRACE: You know what, Mr. Lunsford? Please don`t say you`re sorry because I guarantee you everybody watching tonight agrees with you. And there you are in the midst of all of this, fighting still for little Jessie.

LUNSFORD: Well, I mean, there`s other kids, and there`s so many other children that`s missing and not been found. And it`s not right for these kind of things to go on happening. And we can stop it by keeping these people in prison. If we can put an ankle bracelet on Martha Stewart, why can`t we put an ankle bracelet on these guys?

GRACE: You know what, Mark Lunsford? Please stay there in Washington to see what you can do with that bunch of politicians.

LUNSFORD: Yes, ma`am. I will return in September to do this all over again on the Senate side.

GRACE: And we will be joining you, sir.

LUNSFORD: Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you. And thank you to Susan.

LUNSFORD: Thank you, Susan.

GRACE: I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But as always, my biggest thank you is to you for being with all of us and inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END