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CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Latest From Aruba

Aired June 24, 2005 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, 26 days after Natalee Holloway's disappearance, a crack search team from Texas, plus the FBI and Coast Guard are now in Aruba trying to find any sign of her. While an Aruban judge, taken into custody yesterday, is due in court tomorrow as a suspect along with his son and three others.
We've got it all. The latest with Natalee's aunt, Linda Allison, in Aruba, another of Natalee's aunts, Kelly Holloway, who's very close to Natalee and has a daughter of her own the same age, Tim Miller the director of that Texas search team that's now in Aruba. CNN's Karl Penhaul on the scene in Aruba. Assistant Florida state attorney, Stacey Honowitz, high profile defense attorney Michael Cardoza and Marc Klaas, the child safety advocate whose daughter Polly was abducted and murdered in 1993. And they're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

First, Marc Klaas, any comment on the tragedy of the three boys in Camden, New Jersey?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: This is the first I've heard of it, Larry. I'm sorry, I've been traveling all day. You caught me by surprise on this.

KING: OK. We don't know if it's a crime yet, but three young boys, 5-year-old, 6-year-old and I think an 11-year-old girl, were found in the trunk of a car, Camden, New Jersey -- all boys, I'm told.

KLAAS: I'll tell you, you know, in the past few years they have put trunk release valves in the back of trunks so that if somebody is stuck in one, they are alive, they are able to affect their own escape. So, it sounds to me on the face of it like they were not in a situation like that.

KING: All right. Let's move to Aruba.

Kelly Holloway, what's the latest -- as Natalee's aunt, what's the latest you've heard?

KELLY HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S AUNT: The latest I've heard is that the dad was arrested yesterday. But I'm not sure why he was arrested or why he's been held.

KING: That's the judge?

HOLLOWAY: Yes.

KING: Do they keep you informed, the police and the authorities, on a regular basis, as to what's happening?

HOLLOWAY: I rely more on my family and my relatives that are there.

KING: Linda Allison, Natalee's aunt, who is the sister of Natalee's father, what do you hear?

LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S AUNT: Well, the family -- Dave and Beth -- have meetings with the FBI, usually once a day, and there is some communication going on, but it's on a very limited basis. They again, don't want to provide any details to this investigation, because they don't want to do anything to jeopardize this case.

They even go so far as just to only give initials of the suspects that they have in custody. So we rely on the media to determine what that person's name is, and other information that we have.

KING: Karl Penhaul, I know this may sound weird, but has there been any thought given to the fact that she may have just gone into the ocean and drowned?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the police and prosecutors the last time I spoke to them, which was mid-week, were saying that they were still keeping all avenues of investigation open, all hypothesis. And that does include, in addition to the fact that something terrible may have happened to Natalee, also the hypothesis she may have gone missing of her own accord, i.e. a runaway or that she may have been kidnapped.

But obviously, as this investigation goes on, the police are narrowing down those lines of investigation. There's certainly nothing they're pointing to right now to suggest whether Natalee is alive or dead, Larry.

KING: Very little hope though, wouldn't you say, Karl?

PENHAUL: Well, you talk to the family here, and they are keeping hope alive. That's why they're still here, Larry. And when you see the family pressing as hard as these guys are doing, you've got to share in some of that hope.

KING: Stacey Honowitz, what do you make -- I know it's Aruba's laws are very different, but what do you make of arrest, held, not arrest, not charged, the judge, the father, could that happen in Florida?

STACEY HONOWITZ, PROSECUTOR: Well, no. It's very different. We've discussed this before on the show.

You know the bottom line is, the standard of holding them say lot less. It's mere suspicion. Over here it's probable cause, the standard is much higher. Probable cause to believe that a crime's been committed. Here, obviously, these five suspects that are in custody, there's stories, there could be inconsistent stories. And under Aruba law, they can be held just under suspicion. That's what's happening now. Obviously, the father was arrested because, in somebody's story or even when they met with the father or six hours the other day, something did not match up, something that they're not happy with. There's a suspicion that somehow he's involved somewhere down the line. We're going to have to wait and see what comes with this.

KING: Michael Cardoza, what's your read on this bizarre story?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I tell you. The first thing is, I think it's interesting what goes down in Aruba. What they can do is hold the person for eight days. Then they have to go before the judge again for another eight days. Then they can do it for another eight days. So, they get three eight-day increments. And then they can go back to the judge and try for a longer detention. They can go up to 116 days before they bring a charge against anybody.

So I'll tell you what, with that facing them, it certainly gives the law enforcement people down there a great hammer over people's head. You better start talking, or we're going to keep you the entire 116 days until we figure this one out.

Here in the states, as Stacey said you can't do that. You have to have probable cause to arrest someone. Once arrest them here in California, you have to bring them into court within 72 hours or let them out of jail.

So, this is really unusual to us lawyers here, to be able to keep someone in custody for up to 116 days without bringing a charge.

KING: Marc, from your experience, would you say the odds are very low for recovery of Natalee?

KLAAS: Well, she may be recovered in some way or other, but I don't know that she'll be recovered alive. I believe that Beth is doing an absolutely amazing job of leading this charge. She is absolutely the general in this battle for her daughter's life. And I think she's a brilliant strategist. And if they are going to get to the bottom of this, it's only going to be because of her.

KING: We're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk to Tim Miller, he's director of Texas Equusearch, now part of the search for Natalee. It's a good story. And we'll talk to him about what they do. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: Investigators say the young men's stories changed during interrogation. Since their arrest, they've told their own mothers they were lying.

NADIRA RAMIREZ, SUSPECT'S MOTHER: So I asked my son, where you guys really put off her. You said the Holiday Inn. He said, no, mom. That he asked to leave him somewhere by the beach there, by the Mariott.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Let's go Aruba now and talk to Tim Miller, director of Texas Equusearch, now part of the search for Natalee in Aruba. He went there at the request of the family. His own daughter was kidnapped and murdered 21-years-ago. Tim, what is Texas Equusearch?

TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, we're a search group that's got bigger than we wanted to get. And that was even before this case here. We've been on 450 plus searches. And we've have some pretty good results. We have a lot of determination. We've got some wonderful resources. And we're bringing some resources here that have not been used yet. And you know, this is a small island, unless you're looking for a small girl, and you know, this island certainly grows, that's for sure.

KING: Is this full time?

MILLER: You know what? We're a volunteer organization. Nobody in our organization gets paid anything. You know, we got people take off work. We got -- you know, it's incredible what our people do. You know, we're bringing sidescan sonar over here. We're going to be doing a lot of things in the water. We brought our own divers over here. We've got search dogs over here that are more than qualified to find something, if it's findable.

I think we've got 24 people here now, and we're bringing three other dog teams that are flying in tomorrow.

And in defense to police chief over here, I've spent a fair amount of time with him, and one-on-one time with him behind closed doors, just the two of us, and there's a lot of frustration on his end. He's doing a -- I think he's doing a tremendous job in what he's doing in this investigation, and unfortunately, who knows how far it can go until Natalee is located. And without sugar-coating anything, odds are against us bringing Natalee home alive, but you know, we need to bring her home.

KING: Did you get started in this because of what happened to you and your daughter?

MILLER: Larry, I couldn't have done it the first seven or eight years after Laura's death. There was a grieving process. There was a healing process. And I've got compassion for this family, and many, many families across the country that still have missing children. And I know this much -- there's not -- this family can never even start that healing process until they know what happened to their daughter. Their life will never, ever, ever be the same again. And we've got to do everything we can do to give them that opportunity, to have a place to go visit their daughter and put flowers down and know where she's at.

Even the thought of them leaving this island without their daughter is just heartbreaking right now, and we all got to get together and make sure that they don't leave alone. We need to be here for this family, this community, and we can't go home without Natalee.

KING: What do you do for a living, Tim?

MILLER: That is a good question, Larry. I used to be in the construction business, and we thought we'd be doing two or three searches a year when I first started this out, and you know, it's grown from that. We've had some real financial struggles, and my life is upside down. I can't make plans or anything. But you know what? It's OK. I'm certainly not complaining in any way.

I know when my own daughter was missing, and they said she was a runaway, there weren't any search groups, I couldn't get any cooperation from law enforcement, even in the States. And 17 months later, her body was found two miles from our house. So I know what wasn't done in Laura's case, and I just promise never to leave another family alone again, as long as we can help.

And when Natalee's uncle Paul called me up on Sunday, I mean, that was Father's Day, I had things to do, but you know what? I took time, and he met at my office, and it's history from here. So we got a lot of work ahead of us, but you know, we need all the hopes and the prayers from everybody at home. And you know, Natalee's became America's girl right now, so let's bring her back home.

KING: Marc Klaas, you're very aware of this organization, aren't you?

KLAAS: Well, yes, and quite frankly, their whole approach to looking for missing children is brilliant. They have all undergone background checks. They work as a team; they train as a team. They've got an awful lot of experience. So I think if anybody is going to -- if any one entity is going to be able to locate Natalee and find out what happened on this island, these are probably the folks to do it.

KING: Linda Allison, you're in Aruba, you're an aunt of Natalee. What would you ask Tim?

ALLISON: Well, if you'll excuse me just for a moment, I want to go back to the previous comment that you made about the possibility of Natalee being a runaway. And on behalf of the family, I want to say that is not an option that Natalee would be a runaway. She had too much of a future ahead of her. Her bags were packed the evening before. Her passport was in her bag. This girl was ready to go home, and she is not a runaway.

KING: Anything you wanted to...

ALLISON: Yes, I did...

MILLER: I support you in that, Linda.

ALLISON: I did visit with Tim earlier today, and he discussed some things that he was going to be doing in the investigation, and maybe Tim can at this point share with the audience some of the things that he's going to be looking at, as opposed to what has already been searched.

KING: Tim?

MILLER: Well, a lot of things that, you know, that have been done, we're going to redo. You know, I've gotten a green light from the prime minister over here, from the police chief. And a lot of things we're not going to share right now, for reasons that just...

KING: Sure.

MILLER: .... don't need to be shared. We'll share them with the family and stuff, but I promise you, we're not going to do one thing to interfere in the investigation of this. And part of the investigation, you know, they're doing their job, but until we find Natalee, you know, people could be let out somewhere down the road. So we want to make sure that doesn't happen.

KING: How many people are in your group, Tim?

MILLER: We've got 24 of them here right now, I believe. We got three other dog teams coming tomorrow, and we're also going to be getting this community together and we're going to, you know, kind of run this search.

KLAAS: Larry?

KING: Somebody -- yeah, go ahead.

KLAAS: Larry, one of the most important components of a search for a missing child is never to tip your hand. You don't want the people that know where the child is to know where you're going or what you're doing. Therefore, as Tim just explained, you have to be very, very close to the cuff on these kinds -- these kinds of decisions and choices.

KING: Tim, I salute you on behalf of everyone who cares about children and children lost and the work you do. I wish you the best of luck. We'd love you to come up with Natalee live.

MILLER: Thank you.

KING: And we'll keep in close touch.

MILLER: Thank you so much, Larry.

KING: Tim Miller, director of Texas Equusearch.

They are now part of the search team. What a guy. What a story. He might be worth, when this is all over, an hour sitting right here and just talking about his life and what they do.

We'll be back with our panel and your phone calls later. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Stacey Honowitz, from your vantage point some miles away in Miami, what do you make of how the authorities are dealing with this?

HONOWITZ: Well, I can't tell you firsthand. It's only, of course, what we hear on the media and what we see on television but we talked about whether or not this Aruba police force is competent and sophisticated enough to handle an investigation like this and I think by Tim's team going in there and by Natalee's mother calling in this team, certainly they're not satisfied with what's going on because nothing's come of it so far, but I think that the fact that a sophisticated group is coming in with sophisticated technology is only going to enhance this operation, this investigation.

So, I'm sure everybody's hoping, not just me, as a prosecutor, but everybody's hoping that, with this new team coming in, the sophistication of the investigation will become a little bit tighter and will lead us to some answers. So, that's what everybody is hoping for.

KING: Kelly Holloway, in Memphis, Natalee's aunt, are you optimistic?

HOLLOWAY: I am optimistic. I believe Natalee is alive until they've proved differently.

KING: This is an inner belief of yours?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I mean, I just have to believe that. I have to believe that. It's all I can hold onto, until they find her, one way or the other.

KING: Do you think the possibility, Kelly, of an accidental drowning?

HOLLOWAY: I think that what happened, happened with the people who are in jail and I think they are the people who know what happened. And I think that's where the key lies, and that's the people that need to be questioned, to get to the bottom of this.

KING: Michael Cardoza it must be terrible to be a family member in a situation like this. One can only imagine.

CARDOZA: I really can't even imagine, Larry. I mean, you're the father of a number of children. I have four children. I can't even begin to imagine what this is like, but when you talk about the police investigation, I'm telling you, from everything I've heard and I've read, Beth, the mother, is the best investigator on that island. I mean, she's tireless. She's the one, remember, that looked at the videotapes and found Joran. She said: Look, there he is on the tape, there's the one that was with my daughter. Because one of the boys was playing cards with him the night before. So, she's actually doing a lot of investigation.

When we talk about the police, remember, they're here to solve the crime. It's a whodunnit, if it was done. There also ancillary to that; to find out: Where is the body. That's why when i hear Tim' down there to find the body -- he can certainly help that. I think the greatest thing they have down there is: Keep them in jail until somebody talks.

But I've often thought what you were thinking, Larry, what if what Joran says, that he goes down to the beach with her, and I'm not saying this is true, but what if he takes her and walks her down to the beach and then for some reason, she leaves him or he leaves her and that is, in fact, what Joran says and then she sleeps on the beach or passes out on the beach and that ocean waves come in and take her away.

I'm sure they're going to have people down there plotting where the body may end up. Are there currents that would take her out into the ocean. There are a lot of unanswered questions here and I bet that's exactly what's going on. I mean, it's smacks of Scott Peterson to me.

KING: Marc Klaas is it possible we may never find out?

KLAAS: It's possible, Larry, but listen, miss Holloway is correct. They have to hold onto hope that she is alive and that's part of the frustration. The local authorities' job is to find Natalee and they haven't done it. Every day they don't find Natalee is another day they don't do their job. That's why they're bringing in other resources. That's why the FBI is there, to be able to push that.

Now, we can't believe anything this guy, Joran Van Der Sloot, says. Remember, this is a guy that tried to assassinate her character, he tried to finger two other guys. He would have let those guys go down forever if he could have gotten away with this. Now, he has changed his story. He's proven to the world that he is a liar and has absolutely no credibility. So, I would give nothing to this story of his that he just left her there and walked away.

HONOWITZ: Larry, that's what happens when you have people in custody for the amount of time. That's why it's good that they keep him in custody because eventually, they start talking.

KLAAS: Sure.

And eventually, they start pointing fingers and they become inconsistent. So, as the days go on and as the interrogation gets a little bit deeper and a little bit longer and a little bit further, you might get some answers which is exactly why the father, now, is in custody, because something came out somewhere about him.

KING: Karl Penhaul, what do the people on the street say, people in Aruba -- everyday people?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly, they don't go with the theory that Natalee may have fallen asleep on the beach and that an ocean wave may have come and engulfed her in some way. There are no ocean waves here, certainly on the west side of Aruba. The ocean just gently lapse at the shore, certainly at that beach where these boys are now saying that they dropped Natalee off along with Joran Van Der Sloot.

And according to the Aruban search and rescue teams and I've tried it myself, by jumping in the water out there, you have to be more than a mile off the coast here, for the currents to actually catch you and when they do, yes, they will drag you northwest and then out direct west to open ocean. You've got to be a long way out, otherwise, the gentle surf will simply bring any object back into the shore. Different story on the north side, though, the waves there will always bring an object back to the shore, however far out you throw it, Larry.

KING: Linda Allison, does it seem like 26 days?

ALLISON: Well, each day that we get up I tell someone that it's like "Groundhog Day." We get up and we do the same thing. I go with my brothers out to help search some of the areas, some of the remote areas and yes, it does get long here and we just want to continue to do the search until we find Natalee.

KING: It's strange, isn't it, because you're looking, like for a body, right? You're looking for a clue.

ALLISON: We're obviously looking for evidence, any kind of evidence, because as of that Monday -- Sunday night, she's disappeared, vanished and there are no clues, that we are aware of and we just -- until the boys who were last seen with Natalee, until they come up with some information or this Equusearch group, if they're going to do a search and recovery, maybe there's answers within the next two to three days.

KING: We'll take a break and then we'll be going to your phone calls and we'll ask Karl Penhaul to give us a wrap, bring us up-to- date and then go to your calls.

Tomorrow night, we're going repeat our interview with Jermaine Jackson; the first sit-down interview he did following his brother's acquittal.

Billy Graham: We'll repeat that historic interview on Sunday night and Monday night: the Hiltons will join us. You've heard of them. They'll be our -- and by the way, our guests next week will include Mary Tyler Moore.

We'll be back with your phone calls for Kelly Holloway, Linda Allison, Tim Miller is gone, Karl Penhaul, Stacey Honowitz, Michael Cardoza and Marc Klaas.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Let's reintroduce the panel and go to calls. In Memphis, is Kelly Holloway, Natalee Holloway's aunt. In Aruba, is Linda Allison, Natalee's aunt, sister of Natalee's father. In Miami, is Stacey Honowitz, Florida assistant state attorney -- won a big case today, by the way. In San Francisco is Michael Cardoza, criminal defense attorney, who's sorry she won it -- a little joke. In Louisville, Kentucky is Marc Klaas...

CARDOZA: Congratulations.

KING: ... is Marc Klaas. His daughter, Polly, was kidnapped and murdered in 1993, and he's the founder of the Klaas Kids Foundation.

Before we go to calls, back to Aruba. Karl Penhaul, our CNN Aruba reporter, bring us right up to date with this story.

PENHAUL: Well, today was the second day of questioning for Judge Paul Van Der Sloot. He's the father of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, another of five suspects now in police custody. Paul Van Der Sloot, the father, according to a law enforcement source close to this investigation, said that he wasn't being very cooperative during interrogation by police in the course of today. Also, we know that a Coast Guard boat, along with four FBI agents, searched a lake near the Van Der Sloot home, about 15 minutes from the home. They came up with nothing, though, from that search. A search dog was also used in the area around the lake, but nothing found -- Larry.

KING: All right. Let's go to calls. Cleveland, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Yes. My question is, why would her friends let her leave with Van Der Sloot and, like, where were the chaperones?

KING: Linda Allison, what do we know about that?

ALLISON: Well, at this point, we have not looked back on the issue with the chaperone and where the friends were. At this point, we're just trying to find Natalee and looking forward in this investigation. It's something that we can review after the fact.

KING: Karl Penhaul, do you have any knowledge about the chaperones?

PENHAUL: Again, no more than Linda has said. I understand that both the friends and chaperones back in Alabama are not saying too much at this stage. All eyes are looking forward to where is Natalee, not how it happened at this stage.

KING: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: For the attorneys, I'd like to know in a legal sense, how long can these suspects actually be held in custody, and has there been any physical evidence that we know about?

KING: Stacey?

HONOWITZ: Well, they can be held, Michael told the viewers earlier, they can be held up to 116 days. They have intervals where they go in front of a judge. As a matter of fact, there's a hearing tomorrow where they're all going to be brought into court to make a determination if they can be held for another eight days. But they can be held for about 116 days before any kind of formal charges are filed.

With regard to any physical evidence, certainly nobody is tipping their hand in this investigation. Nobody wants to jeopardize the investigation at this point, so as far as we know, there has been no physical evidence. But you have been able to see on television that they've taken into -- they've seized computers and a car. We're just waiting for any tests to see what comes back on it. But as of now, we haven't heard anything.

KING: Under that law, Michael, what can a defense lawyer do with a person being held?

CARDOZA: There is not a whole lot you can do, because under their law, as Stacey just talked about, you've got those three eight- day increments. You keep them for eight days, you go before the judge and go, Judge, we want another eight. And if you have a reason to do that, the judge grants it. You get three of those, 24 days.

Then you go back for two longer requests, say, Judge, we want to keep them even longer. The most you can keep them is 116 days. And just by way of comparison, here in the States, it's a matter of days before we have to charge here. You know, a prosecutor has to charge, or you release them. So certainly they have a big weapon down there to keep someone or people that long before they let them go. I mean, think about that. You're sitting in jail, you are not charged.

KING: Karl Penhaul, you know anything...

HONOWITZ: And here, we have the bond, we have bonds here.

KING: Yeah, that's right. Karl...

CARDOZA: Yeah, exactly, that's another great point.

KING: (INAUDIBLE) Karl Penhaul?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly each time here, the reason why they're arrested is on the basis of reasonable suspicion, as the prosecutors say. And each time, those increments to continue custody are approved by the judge, each time the burden of proof that prosecutors have to present to the judge increases. So they're not being held for a 116- day period with no evidence at all. To continue that detention period, each time a little bit more evidence, a little bit more evidence has to be presented to the judge to convince him that prosecution really has something on these people. And the defense attorneys at each stage of the game can appeal that and take it a further appeal if they believe there is not sufficient evidence to continue holding their clients, Larry.

KING: Dayton, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I was wondering about the possibility that Natalee could have been sold into prostitution and taken to another country? Is anything being done searching for her in neighboring countries?

KING: Linda? ALLISON: Well, in talking with local authorities, they have said there is no way that Natalee could leave the island without a passport. There are small boats around the island, and you know, that's one possibility that the family has considered, is there an option for someone to take her off this island in a small boat? There are Coast Guards around, and I have been told that they monitor the waters between here and South America. So they continue to tell us no, that that's not an option.

KING: Although wouldn't, Kelly Holloway, in a sense, you'd hope for that?

HOLLOWAY: Would I hope for that?

KING: Well, that means she's alive.

HOLLOWAY: I understand what you're saying. I just hope that we find Natalee. I just want to find Natalee, and I want to bring her home, and I want her to be OK.

KING: Frankfort, Kentucky, hello.

CALLER: Yes, the lady from Cleveland, Ohio kind of was going to ask the question I did. I, as a parent of two grown children, who are out of high school and in college now, I've chaperoned, I would say, 10 to 12 trips. I wonder how many students were on the trip, and how many chaperones?

KING: Linda?

ALLISON: It's my understanding that there was somewhere between 130 to 140 chaperones -- I mean, I'm sorry, students, and I have heard various things of the number of chaperones. And again, it's not the issue of the chaperones or where were her friends. That's irrelevant at this point. Our focus is she was last seen with the three boys. They know something about where her whereabouts are, and that's where our focus is at this time.

KING: Linda has to leave us now. Thank you for joining us, Linda.

ALLISON: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Linda Allison. Kelly remains, so do Karl, Stacey, Michael and Marc Klaas. We have something for Marc, too, right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we were (INAUDIBLE), Natalee and her friends came, and while I was there, I saw that she came, asked if -- what Joran was going to do tonight, to make sure that he went to Carlos 'n Charlie's that night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Marc Klaas, before we take our next call, what was the waiting like?

KLAAS: The waiting was absolutely excruciating, Larry. I lived in fear for 65 days, fear that something horrible was happening to my daughter, or that I might not see her again. Closely behind the fear, though, was the anger, the anger that the police weren't doing enough to solve the case, and that we were being left hanging.

Now, by the end of it all, I had lost about 35 pounds. I had thrown my back out in several places, and was really only a shell of what I had been on October 1st, at the beginning of our ordeal.

KING: How did they finally tell you what happened?

KLAAS: Well, you know what, the police were very, very good to us. They always made sure that we heard relevant information about the case from them before we heard it in the media, and I would hope that the Arubans are following suit. That way, every time we would hear a rumor on television, we would know it was not true.

The police were always very, very good about that. And what they finally did is after convincing us that Polly probably wasn't alive several times or trying to, they finally called Polly's mother and I into a room. When we got there, we knew, because Mark Marchand, the FBI agent and Pat Parks, the local police captain, were already crying. And they told us that they were so sorry, but that Polly was dead.

At that point, Polly's mom started crying. It took several hours for the emotional impact to hit home with me. And at that point, I was back in my condo and Sausalito. Fortunately, there were a lot of men around who, once it all finally -- the emotional impact met the intellectual knowledge that I had of it -- the closest thing I could say is that it resembled what Sean Penn did in the movie "Mystic River" when he found his daughter dead. It was excruciating.

KING: Kelly Holloway, are you angry?

HOLLOWAY: Part of me is angry. I want Natalee back. And it makes me mad that we don't know and they're not telling us a whole lot. And this whole investigation has moved so slowly. I don't understand why the whole thing took so long to get to this point.

KING: Smithfield, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Thank you, Larry. I would like to ask your panel if anyone knows if lie detector tests are admissible in the courts of Aruba. And if any of the suspects have volunteered or been asked to take a test.

KING: Karl?

PENHAUL: No, Polygraph tests aren't permissible on the island or under Dutch law. But what has been brought in are behavioral experts and demeanor experts. And we understand they've been allowed to sit in on some of the interrogations to try and fulfill that function to detect where some of the suspects are telling lies.

KING: Alexandria, Louis -- yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

CARDOZA: It's me, Larry, Michael.

KING: I know -- hold on, Alexandria.

Go on, Michael.

CARDOZA: I was wondering -- I know the Netherlands control Aruba. What are the chances -- do they know if this will be tried there? Let's assume they do find out of what happened, and let's assume these boys are involved or at least one of them. Will they be tried there in Aruba? Or is there a chance they will be taken to the Netherlands to be tried?

KING: Karl?

PENHAUL: There's a chance that a Dutch judge may be flown in. Already in part of this case we've seen a judge being flown in from neighboring Curacao. But essentially it will be tried under the appeal system, if there isn't an appeal against any conviction, for example, that can be heard in various instances including in Holland itself.

KING: And is it by unanimous jury vote?

PENHAUL: There is no jury. It's not a jury system here, Larry. It's a judge trial. And then the appeals are heard by a greater number of judges, up to three judges could hear an appeal.

KING: Alexandria, Louisiana, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Do we know if Natalee has runaway before, or is this totally out of her nature?

KING: Kelly?

HOLLOWAY: Natalee has never ran away before. This is so out of character for her. She's responsible. She's intelligent. She has a happy, wonderful, loving family. She would have no reason to run away.

KING: Anderson, Indiana, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I'd like to know if the party boat had any security cameras on it? And if they can test it for Natalee's DNA?

KING: Karl, what do you know?

PENHAUL: We asked earlier on shortly after the arrest of Steve Croes, the party boat deejay. We asked the owner of the boat, Marcus Wiggins, if that boat had in fact had been searched by police or impounded by police. He told us no. But then yesterday, a spokesperson for the prosecution office said that the boat had been searched. And nothing showed up there. But we don't know from the ship's log whether that ship was sailing that night, although normally on a Sunday night, as this was that Natalee disappeared early Monday, the ship is normally in dock and doesn't sail. But no security cameras as far as we know on board.

KING: At this point, let's say it were a Miami investigation, Stacey, would the prosecution be involved at all, or do they not get involved until an arrest?

HONOWITZ: Well, they get involved sometimes early on before the arrest. The investigation can go on certainly before it's presented to the state attorney's office, or the district attorney's office. And what Karl was just talking about, looking for surveillance, taking DNA, we do do those things before an arrest is made. So, the prosecutor can be in early on in an investigation before an actual arrest or formal charges are filed.

KING: We'll take a break and be back with more calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.

Billy Graham will repeat that historic interview Sunday night. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. Toronto, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I would like to ask a question. If it could be determined, there's an innuendo or rumor that the young son of the judge may have had a gambling problem. And if that is true, is it possible that he might have been indebted to some unscrupulous individuals and made a deal to the devil, so to speak, to have Natalee kidnapped?

KING: Anything's possible, right, Karl?

PENHAUL: Anything's possible. But I was down in the casino at the Holiday Inn, and that's where Joran Van Der Sloot usually played, poker was his game. But talking to some of the dealers there, they tell me sometimes he won, sometimes he lost. He didn't play high stakes games. He wasn't a great player, he wasn't a bad player. But no huge debts wracked up in this casino at the Holiday Inn where he usually played, Larry.

KING: Houston, Texas, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Hi, Larry. I just wanted to ask a question. First of all, I want to send my prayers out to the Holloway family. And the question I have is, is Miss Holloway Twitty, is she still planning to sue the Aruba government? I notice that now all of the government officials are coming out, and -- or do you think it might be a scare tactic that she's trying to get them to respond?

KING Kelly, what do you know?

HOLLOWAY: All I know is that Beth wants her daughter back. She wants her daughter back. And she wants to know what happened to Natalee. That's what Beth wants.

KING: Marc Klaas, you think a suit is possible here?

KLAAS: Well, you know. I think anything is possible. We have to remember, they let these very major suspects run free for ten days. And we now have a situation where young Van Der Sloot is apparently changing his story on a regular basis and old Van Der Sloot is not being cooperative with law enforcement. I can imagine her mounting frustration, and her exploration into a lot of different ways to get to the truth.

KING: New York City, hello.

CALLER: Yes, I had heard early on, I think, that Joran had anger management problems. I wondered if any of the panel are familiar with this? And I wonder if Natalee resisted some of his overtures and things got out of control?

KING: Karl?

PENHAUL: We have heard that rumor. That said talking to his friends, nothing that came up in conversation with his friends that he really had an anger problem. And as far as the witness statements read to defense attorneys, they say that there was a friendship between Natalee and Joran. That they'd met the previous night in the casino at the Holiday Inn, and they'd been talking and joking with one another at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

KING: Franklin Park, New Jersey, hello.

CALLER: Hi, my question is for Kelly. Has any thought been given to possibly bringing in a psychic to help?

HOLLOWAY: To my knowledge, they have had a psychic come in. I don't know what the outcome of that was.

KLAAS: It's a waste of time and it's a waste of resource.

KING: Why?

KLAAS: Because they don't find anybody. We had a million psychics. Here's what these folks want. They want a free ticket to Aruba. They want a free vacation. I would stay far away, leave this to the professionals.

KING: Stacey, have you ever used a psychic in an investigation?

HONOWITZ: I never used a psychic in an investigation, and I think basically what they really need are good interrogators. I mean, Michael knows that there are police officers, detectives, and Marc knows this, that are specially trained in interrogations. And over there, as I said before, we don't know how sophisticated the police force is. They certainly haven't seen a crime like this before, and I think bringing in the behavioral specialists, along with very, very talented interrogators is going to be the answer to this case.

KING: Do you agree, Michael?

CARDOZA: I do agree. I'll take off my defense hat. I remember, I was a prosecutor for 15 years. Yeah, the answer is with Joran and his dad.

I can understand as a defense attorney what they're doing, especially the dad. That's his son. If his son was involved -- I mean, any dad listening right now would say, that's my son, and they're going to try to protect their son. That's the reaction of fathers.

But on the other side of the coin now, yeah, he's the answer to this whole case. I mean, he's the last one with her, and the last one with her has the answer, plain and simply. To say that, I walked away from her on the beach, I mean, that doesn't smack of common sense. Why would he walk away from her? Did they have a fight? I'm telling you, my gut tells me what's going to happen, there was some sort of advance, they got in a fight, and something ugly happened on that beach. What then happened with the body, that remains to be seen. I hate to be blunt about it, but I think that's what really happened here, and that's just my gut talking.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with some more moments with our panel on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Karl Penhaul can tell us about psychics who have been brought in. What do you know, Karl?

PENHAUL: Well, we do know from the family, from Jug Twitty, that's Natalee's stepfather, that a number of psychics have called in at certain stages of this investigation from the U.S., and that they've said, oh, we can see Natalee being held against her will in a dark place, possibly in a crackhouse. We of course went through some of the crackhouses, and no information there.

Also, some of the local psychics did float one day in a boat off the north coast of Aruba. Nothing was found. They brought up nothing, but they have been involved at certain stages, Larry.

KING: Kelly Holloway, do you know if -- there's stories, we don't know if it's true, that a former boyfriend was on the trip with her, is that true?

HOLLOWAY: I don't know if he was on the trip. I know that, you know, she had a former boyfriend. I'm not sure if he was on the trip or not.

KING: You don't know if he went to Aruba?

HOLLOWAY: I'm not sure -- I'm not sure if he was at Aruba.

KING: OK. Little Rock, Arkansas, hello. Little Rock, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Larry. What I would like to ask is, if Natalee's computer at home has been checked to see if she had tried to reach any pen pals or anyone before she left, to see if those guys' names maybe have come up, some kind of way, if her chat room or anything has been checked?

KING: Anybody know? Do you know, Kelly?

HOLLOWAY: I don't know that information. I'm not sure.

KING: Do you know, Karl?

PENHAUL: Not if Natalee's has been checked. Of course, we do know that Deepak Kalpoe, one of the suspect, that a computer was seized from his home, and that agents have been checking through Internet histories there, Larry.

KING: Stacey, wouldn't it be logical to check hers as well?

HONOWITZ: Well, absolutely. I mean, they're looking for any kinds of leads or clues at this point. So if there was some indication that there was contact, of course it would be a smart move. You want to -- you want to investigate every angle that you possibly can. So maybe later on, they will, if they haven't done it already, they will, you know, seize her computer and see if there's been any contact between her and any of these suspects.

KING: Syracuse, New York, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. I'm just wondering if Natalee's -- what Natalee's frequency is of taking trips to island resorts or even taking trips with her friends to some places, what that might be?

KING: Kelly, is she a frequent traveler?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, Natalee has traveled the world. I mean, you know, she's traveled with her family, and you know, I think that she is very smart about going abroad. I just think that on this one particular trip, something really bad did happen to her. But I don't think that it was because of something Natalee did.

KING: Michael Cardoza, do you believe in your heart we will have a conclusion?

CARDOZA: I do believe in my heart we'll have a conclusion of this case. I've got to think while these guys are in jail, that if they can, they should be talking to their defense attorneys right now, telling them the truth, and that's what Joran should be doing, if in fact he's involved.

In my heart, I don't believe that he intentionally killed her if that's in fact what happened. It just doesn't smack of the truth. Maybe something untoward happened. Maybe he went a little too far sexually with her, she resisted him, and something bad happened. That's not first degree murder, that's not second degree murder. So I think they should be talking, maybe saying, here's what happened, here's where you can find her. Here's what I did. And cut a deal with the prosecution, and let this family have peace with what happened here.

KING: Marc, do you think we'll have a conclusion?

KLAAS: Well, I hope we do have a conclusion. It's certainly -- the secret is with Joran. But I think that there are a couple of lessons that the rest of us have to take out of this, Larry. Number one, we don't let our friends get into cars with strange men in strange countries. We see what can happen.

And number two, any American citizen that gets lost in another country is subordinated to the customs of that country, to the authorities in that country and to the law enforcement of that country, and again, we can see what happens.

KING: Kelly, we wish you all good luck. We hope that Natalee is found, and found alive.

HOLLOWAY: Thank you.

KING: Thank you for spending time with us. Karl, thanks for your outstanding reports on this nightly and daily on CNN. You're doing a great job.

PENHAUL: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Stacey Honowitz, congratulations on winning your case today in Miami.

HONOWITZ: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Michael Cardoza, as always, thank you for joining us.

CARDOZA: You're welcome, Larry.

KING: And Marc Klaas, thank you for your insight and for all you've done.

KLAAS: Thank you, Larry.

KING: That's our show for tonight.

Tomorrow night, we'll repeat our interview with Jermaine Jackson. Sunday night, Billy Graham, and then live on Monday night, the Hiltons will join us.

Right now, joining us, one of my favorite people, Friday especially. Friday, his smile is bigger.

AARON BROWN, HOST, "NEWSNIGHT": The Hiltons? Like Paris Hilton?

KING: I don't know if Paris is coming. I think daughters, parents...

BROWN: (INAUDIBLE).

KING: The mom is coming. BROWN: Cool.

KING: You stay at their hotels, is that it?

BROWN: I have been to the hotels. I think I've finally stolen a towel from them.

KING: I took a Gideon Bible once. I don't know why.

Anyway, Aaron Brown and "NEWSNIGHT" is next. Have a great weekend.

BROWN: You too, buddy. I'll talk to you next week. Thank you.

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