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American Morning

Natalee Holloway Case; Guantanamo Firsthand; Landslide Luck

Aired June 27, 2005 - 09:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Out West, they're waking up to dangerous wildfires in at least six states. Fires spreading fast and furiously.
Shark experts work to find out why a young girl was attacked and killed off the Florida coast over the weekend.

A judge in Aruba orders the release of two men in the Natalee Holloway case. The teenager missing now for four weeks on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.

Also ahead this morning, we're going back to California, talk about those mudslides from just a few weeks ago. Remember those? This is a story about sort of bad news but with a really good silver lining.

M. O'BRIEN: Truly a silver lining. You know, the insurance companies don't cover mudslides, but it turns out they had an insurance policy hanging on the wall.

He was cleaning up after his home was pretty much wiped out, came across a little painting. He owned it for years, bought it at a yard sale, worth an awful lot more than he thought. He'll tell us about the discovery.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's a great story. It's a nice story. Look forward to that.

First, though, Carol Costello's got a look at the headlines again this morning.

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning to all of you.

President Bush is set to host German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. The chancellor arrived in Washington on Sunday. It is their second meeting this year.

Topping the agenda, what else, the war in Iraq and the expansion of the U.N. Security Council. That meeting gets under way in just about two hours.

Some possible high drama at the Supreme Court today, the final day of the current term. The judges are expected to make some key rulings. Plus, Chief Justice William Rehnquist could announce he's stepping down.

These are pictures of Rehnquist leaving his home in Arlington, Virginia, this morning. He's heading to court. The 80-year-old Rehnquist has been battling thyroid cancer. If he retires, it will be the first opening on the bench in more than 10 years.

The trial of the suspected BTK serial killer is expected to begin in the next hour. Dennis Rader is accused in 10 murders stretching over three decades. Court observers say Rader's defense team has not filed any typical defense motions. And it's not clear what exactly will happen in court today, but there is speculation that he may change his plea to guilty.

And gas prices, need I tell you this, they're starting to go back up again. After two months on the decline, the average price per gallon jumped eight cents just over the past two weeks. A gallon of self-serve regular is now at $2.21. That's only seven cents below the all-time high set in April. And with the price of oil maybe going to hit 60 bucks again, who knows?

M. O'BRIEN: Three bucks. Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I tell you, I noticed that yesterday when I was filling up my car. Unbelievable.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: It seems like it drops, you know, a half a penny. We'll do an update if it drops half a cent, and then it goes up to eight cents.

M. O'BRIEN: Fill it up, and get a second mortgage to pay for it. Right? You know? Jeez.

COSTELLO: Some people think that way.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes. All right, Carol. Thanks.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, firefighters are preparing for another day of fierce battles as wildfires sweep through the American West. So far, more than 350,000 acres have burned. Fires are raging in six western states.

One of the most dangerous is in southwest Utah. The fast-moving fire there quadrupled in size in 12 hours on Sunday from 2,000 acres to 8,000 acres. We got an update last hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BOYD, UTAH BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT: Things are looking pretty good right now. We're not looking at any imminent evacuations or anything like that in New Harmony.

Between the air tankers that we had, a number of air tankers working yesterday, as well as some burnout, some of those backfires to burn in some fire line, things are looking pretty good right now. We have (INAUDIBLE) forecast today, so we'll see how things go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: In California, scorched land and charred trees are all that remain after a 52,000-acre fire passed through the Mojave National Preserve. Five homes and two cabins built in the late 1800s were destroyed there.

The same story in Arizona, where the hilltops northeast of Phoenix are black and smoldering still. Officials are worried about more thunderstorms since lightning could spark new fires.

In Nevada, progress on a more than 31,000-acre blaze in the mountains southwest of Las Vegas. More than a dozen other fires are burning in the southern part of Nevada.

In Washington, grass and wheat fields up in flames. In Walla Walla County, smoke was reported as far as 100 miles north in Spokane.

Finally, in Alaska, where fires have been burning for more than two weeks, 80,000 acres have gone up in flames about 150 miles north of Fairbanks.

On the other side of the country no wildfires, but plenty of heat to tell you about. A scorching heat wave hit the Northeast and Midwest over the first weekend of the summer, bringing with it temperatures well into the 90s.

In Boston, a high of 95 there. New York City, the thermometer climbed to 91. In Battle Creek, Michigan, 94. In Cleveland, Ohio, 91, where officials tested an automated phone system warning seniors to keep cool.

All of that brings us right to Chad Myers with the latest on all of this.

Hey, Chad. Good morning to you.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: I'll take it.

MYERS: Oh, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: How frequently does the rain come in that way?

MYERS: From the south-southwest?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. MYERS: This is actually a storm that came up across, made all of the rain for Myrtle Beach this weekend, and it's now spinning around over Philadelphia. And as that storm continues to spin, yes, that's the reason why it's coming in from the wrong direction. I would say maybe one storm in 20 actually come in from this way. It's almost like a nor'easter, but the good news it's not going to make snow.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, that's -- definitely not going to do that today, are we? All right. Thank you, Chad. Appreciate it.

MYERS: You're welcome. OK

M. O'BRIEN: A little later today, Florida medical examiners will conduct an autopsy on the body of 14-year-old Jamie Daigle, who was attacked and killed by a shark on Saturday. She had been swimming about 200 yards off the shore of Miramar Beach, about 120 miles west of Tallahassee in the Panhandle.

The beach was reopened Sunday; extra lifeguards, however. But vacationers remain hesitant, understandably, about going into the water. A shark was spotted in the area Sunday. But shark expert George Burgess says lethal attacks are not that common.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE BURGESS, SHARK EXPERT: This is the first attack ever in this county, only the third fatality ever in the Panhandle region of Florida. So it's an extremely rare event, indeed. And shark attacks simply don't occur very often, and when they do, they're usually not fatal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Burgess will lend his expertise to Daigle's autopsy as officials hope to learn what type and size shark attacked her -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Some new developments in Aruba in the case of Natalee Holloway, missing now, today, for four weeks. Twenty-six- year-old disc jockey Steve Croes will be released later today. Aruban Judge Paul Van Der Sloot was let go on Sunday. Van Der Sloot's the father of one of the three teenagers who are still in custody in this case.

Chris Lawrence live for us in Palm Beach, Aruba, this morning.

Chris, good morning to you. Is there a sense still, considering that so many people now have been released, that this case is still moving forward?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the police commissioner says it is. And he told us if they get some more -- more evidence down the road, they could always come back and re-arrest some of those men.

But we were with Natalee Holloway's mom the day that the judge was arrested. She was so optimistic then. And last night she was so upset she couldn't even talk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): Paul Van Der Sloot walked out of the police station with his lawyer leading the way. The man recently appointed a judge is free after spending three days in jail.

ARIE SWAEN, ATTORNEY: What my client wants, he told me, he wants to go home.

LAWRENCE: Police didn't need probable cause to arrest Van Der Sloot. In Aruba, reasonable suspicion is good enough. But within a couple days, prosecutors have to prove why they should be able to keep him.

SWAEN: What he told me until now is that there is not -- no sufficient suspicion.

LAWRENCE: It was a blow to the parents of Natalee Holloway, who thought they were closer to finding their missing daughter after Van Der Sloot's arrest last Thursday.

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: I feel like he still knows or has some answers.

LAWRENCE: Steve Croes was still handcuffed Sunday, but he was all smiles, knowing the judge had ordered his release, too. Croes is a deejay on a party boat that docks near the hotel where Natalee was staying.

His mother cried when she heard the news, but wasn't surprised.

QUESTION: Do you think he's innocent?

IMOLDA STATIA SALIANA, STEVE CROES' MOTHER: Of course. I'm sure.

LAWRENCE: Judge Van Der Sloot's son, Joran, and two brothers are still in prison. All three initially told police they dropped Natalee off at her hotel. But the attorney for one of the brothers says they were with Natalee and Van Der Sloot only up to a certain point.

DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTY.: He and his brother dropped Joran off at the Marriott Beach. He went home. He didn't wake up until the next morning.

LAWRENCE: Satish Kalpoe's attorney says phone records show Joran called Deepak Kalpoe and told him he left Natalee on the beach and was walking home. He says about 40 minutes later, Van Der Sloot text- messaged that he had arrived.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And that defense attorney told us he really doesn't see the investigation moving forward, because at least as far as his client is concerned, he's told them what he knows. And he says he doesn't know anything more now than he did a week ago -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Chris Lawrence for us this morning with an update. Chris, thanks.

Still to come this morning, an inside look at Gitmo. CNN military analyst Don Shepperd just back from a tour of that controversial prison camp. We're going to ask him what he saw while he was there.

M. O'BRIEN: And a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter takes her fight to the Supreme Court. Judith Miller talks about the possibility of going to prison for protecting a source. It's an interview you'll only see on CNN, so stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A congressional delegation is back in the U.S. now and saying that the conditions at Guantanamo are not as bad as they had heard. Sixteen members of Congress from both parties toured the detention center on Saturday. They witnessed interrogations, they looked in cell blocks, they ate the same lunch as the detainees.

On Friday, a group of former military leaders who are now TV commentators also toured that prison.

CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd was there. He's in Washington this morning for us.

Nice to see you, General. Thanks for talking with us.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: My pleasure, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: You went Friday. How long were you there? What exactly did you get a chance to see?

SHEPPERD: Well, we left early and we were there pretty much the whole day. We got to see the entire detention facility, we got to talk to the guards, we got to see interrogations, observe interrogations, talk to the interrogators. So we had pretty much free run of the place to talk to anyone we wanted to talk to, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: OK. So what did you come away thinking?

SHEPPERD: I came away agreeing with what the congressional delegation just said. What we saw in Guantanamo bears no resemblance to what we are reading in the print press out there. Most of the people writing about this, I believe, have never been there.

What I saw is we have -- we have impressions of an old facility, Camp X-ray, that was closed three years ago. What we have now is a modern, well-constructed prison, guarded by very, very dedicated people, doing an extremely tough job in the midst of very, very dangerous people, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Did you talk to interrogators while you were there as well? What kinds of questions did you have for them?

SHEPPERD: Yes, we did. We talked to interrogators and we watched them at work as well. And here's an interesting thing. I think a lot of people have the impression at Guantanamo, a bunch of people with no rights and being mistreated. But all the interrogators told us -- and this is consistent with what I also heard from the interrogation training at Fort Huachuca in Arizona -- mistreatment does not work.

You can't get things out of people by torturing them. All it does is screw things up. What you have to establish rapport over a long period of time, keep the interrogations going, and eventually people will give information that you then coordinate with other pieces of information to bring you actionable intelligence. And that's what's happening down there.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. But General Shepperd, you say you had free run of the place and that you got to watch them at work, you know, pretty much unfettered for a day. Isn't it fair to say, well, if there's abuse going on, it sure isn't going to happen while the U.S. congressional delegation is coming through, and certainly not while former military people who are now analysts on TV are hanging out in town?

I mean, it seems to me that obviously you wouldn't see those things. I think that's fair to say, isn't it?

SHEPPERD: Yes, absolutely. I mean, obviously, they're on their best behavior, put their best forward food, what have you. And obviously, in any prison situation you have to continually guard against abuses.

There have been abuses at Guantanamo in the past. I think that they have been fixed. And they're constantly on the alert for them.

But again, what we saw was a bunch of really dedicated people that are really, really mad and feel attacked by the things coming out in the print press about this. They say, "I don't know where these people are getting the information. They haven't been here, and I haven't seen it going on." So...

S. O'BRIEN: But some of it's not only coming out of the print press of journalists, let's say, who haven't had a chance to visit. I mean, we're talking about Amnesty International. They're the ones that, as you well know, called Guantanamo a modern day gulag.

The ICRC said the tactics there were tantamount to torture. The ICRC comes by frequently to check on the prisoners. I mean, they're there all the time. The same with Amnesty International, they have people who are there.

These are not journalists who are, you know, typing on their computers in another state and never have left the country.

SHEPPERD: No. The International Red Cross has access 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at times and place of their choosing. They always recommend improvements.

Now, the thing you've got to realize is that people think about Guantanamo as in previous wars, where you captured detainees and you hold them until the end of the war and you release them. Guantanamo is about detaining people, keeping them off of the battlefield, releasing the ones that we determine are not guilty under a system of well-defined rights, and then punishing and bringing to military tribunals the ones that are.

That's what we saw going on. And I believe that's what's going on now, after some past rough starts, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: What did the interrogators tell you about the information that they're getting from the folks who remain detained there?

SHEPPERD: We had that question -- "Look, these people have been here, some of them, two or three years. Are you still getting valuable information?" They all uniformly told us absolutely yes.

You get bits and pieces. You get new people coming in all of the time, you see new faces. They reconfirm new things.

And you go into databases, you line these things up. They say that we have really gotten a lot of information to prevent attacks in this country and in other countries with the information they're getting from these people. And it's still valuable.

S. O'BRIEN: Former Air Force Major General Don Shepperd joining us this morning, a CNN military analyst just back from Gitmo. Thanks for talking with us. Appreciate your insight.

SHEPPERD: A pleasure.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: In a moment, a man who thought he lost everything. But the mudslide that destroyed his home revealed a hidden treasure. It's worth a cool half-million. There it is. It was right under his nose for 20 years. Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: A garage sale painting may be the saving grace for a family without a home right now. The Laguna Beach landslide earlier this month left Alberto Trevino's house teetering on a cliff.

He had no landslide insurance. I didn't even know if they have that stuff. He had no idea how he would rebuild. But when his family went back to retrieve some important items, sentimental items, he thought only, his son happened to grab an old painting his mother liked.

Good choice. It turns out to be a painting that is by a California artist by the name of Joseph Kleitsch, worth more than $500,000. Al Trevino joins us now from the Laguna Art Museum, where the painting is on loan right now.

Al, congratulations. Great news. Do you remember when you got it and how much you paid for it?

ALBERTO TREVINO, LANDSLIDE VICTIM: Well, I remember roughly when I obtained it more than 20 years ago, and that I'm sure the figure was less than $100 that I paid for it.

M. O'BRIEN: Less than $100, all these years it just hung in your living room, or whatever, on the walls of your home. You just liked it but had no idea what you had in value.

As you were moving it out, a neighbor spotted it. She knows a little something about art. What happened after that?

TREVINO: Well, what happened was that we were allowed by the police to get as much as we could within a 15-minute time frame. And my son and my son-in-law were the ones chosen to go into the house. And I had asked them to take all of the paintings, originals off of the walls, which they did. And they handed them to our neighbors, David and Pam. And they, in turn, took the paintings to their home, where Pam just felt she was an amateur artist and felt very much -- very strongly that this was an original by a famous artist.

They called me and I...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, aren't you glad Pam is a scrupulous neighbor? Because she could say, hey, you know, I'll give you a few buck for this painting and quietly sell it, right?

TREVINO: Oh, no, of course. But we've known that the Hagens (ph) for many years, her daughter and my daughter were high school classmates. So we've known most of the people in the neighborhood for at least 20 to 30 years.

M. O'BRIEN: Now, an interesting little twist of fate here. This painting was moved in your house fairly recently, right? And that was a pretty important move?

TREVINO: It was. And what happened was, April 17, we celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary, had a large party. And I took it off the wall because I was going to show slides and moved it to a studio.

And that fortunate move allowed Lawrence (ph) to easily gain access to the painting and move it out within the time frame that was given by the police. So, yes, that was a fortunate move.

M. O'BRIEN: So, you know, this would put you in the "Antiques Road Show" hall of fame, $500,000.

TREVINO: I think so.

M. O'BRIEN: What went through your mind when you heard that number? You must have been a little bit -- a little bit at disbelief there.

TREVINO: Well, not only disbelief, but what I -- I did not want to tell the children or my wife at that time until there was confirmation. And it was because of the help from people like Ray Redfern (ph), the museum, that confirmed the fact that this was an original.

And after that confirmation, and the museum agreed to house the painting, I then broke the news to my children. I think the enjoyment was watching or listening to the expression from my children. Almost every one -- you know, I have 11 children, and so I had to carefully determine which ones and what order I was going to tell them because, you know, there's a certain pecking order that one has to...

M. O'BRIEN: You've got to...

TREVINO: And so I...

M. O'BRIEN: You've got to get an e-mail list for a group that big. You're going to sell the painting, obviously...

TREVINO: Well...

M. O'BRIEN: ... because that will help get your house back or a new house built, right?

TREVINO: Well, it's going to -- it's going to pay for, you know, some of the construction. But again, you know, there -- you know, I'm just hoping that other people have the same good fortune.

There are many people suffering. You know, there are 20 homes that are red-tagged. But we're -- this is an exciting human interest story all based on Laguna, Laguna artists, purchased in Laguna at a garage sale. The individuals from the community have been really great in recognizing this -- this luck.

M. O'BRIEN: Clearly, you have a good eye for art, Al Trevino. I guess you didn't know how good.

TREVINO: No.

M. O'BRIEN: Congratulations to you and your family. Great story. And we're glad it's all working out for you there. And we wish the rest of the families that are red-tagged, as you put it, well -- as well.

TREVINO: Well...

M. O'BRIEN: Go ahead.

TREVINO: The reason that -- the reason that we purchased it, or the reason that I got it in the first place, was that my wife, Delores, loves the missions. And so I knew that this was a piece of art that there would be no controversy within our household.

So everything just kind of fell into place. It's an unbelievable experience for us.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks for sharing your story, Al. Good luck.

TREVINO: OK. Thank you. Bye-bye.

S. O'BRIEN: That's a great story.

M. O'BRIEN: It is a good one, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a story you're only going to see here on CNN. A high-profile reporter waits to hear from the Supreme Court today. Will she go to prison for a story she never even wrote? Her story's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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