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American Morning

Pentagon Explains U.S. Talks with Insurgents; Wildfires Still Raging in the West

Aired June 28, 2005 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Just about half past the hour now on AMERICAN MORNING.
Coming up, a look at those wildfires that are raging in the Western states, still out control.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: High winds have help spread the flames, putting more homes in danger today. We're going to find out this morning if crews are able to turn back the fires. We talk to an official who's involved in that fight.

M. O'BRIEN: And let's check the headlines. Carol Costello here. Hey, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Good morning everyone. "Now in the News."

A 16-year-old boy in Florida is set to undergo more surgery today after being attacked by a shark. The teenager was fishing in the surf on Monday near Cape San Blas. Doctors had to amputate his right leg. Officials expect to reopen the beach where the accident happened later today.

COSTELLO: The confessed BTK killer Dennis Rader is looking at spending the rest of his life in prison. Rader pleaded guilty to killings that spanned three decades and gave a detailed and chilling confession about the crimes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS RADER, ADMITTED BTK KILLER: First of all, Mr. Otero was strangled -- or a bag put over his head and strangled. Then I thought he was going down, and I went over and strangled Mrs. Otero. And I thought she was down. Then I strangled Josephine, thought she was down. And then I went over to Junior and put the bag on his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Rader's sentencing is set to take place in August.

The Vatican officially starts the process of beatifying Pope John Paul II today. Clerics who will take part in the investigations will swear today to faithfully and diligently do their work and promise not to accept any gifts that might sway their decisions. The Vatican must find evidence of at least one miracle since his death for the late pope to be beatified and at least two for him to become a saint. An off-duty police officer hailed as hero. He's recovering this morning after being stabbed at a doughnut shop in New York. Take a look. A surveillance camera caught the dramatic struggle. It happens quickly here, the officer wrestling a knife-wielding robbery. He was stabbed on his left side. The police officer is being credited with saving a shop clerk's life. Police know who the suspect is and they are out looking for him. And hopefully they'll find him very soon.

M. O'BRIEN: I missed it. Did you see it?

COSTELLO: It happened really quickly.

S. O'BRIEN: It plays fast, but you can really see -- oh, it's terrible.

M. O'BRIEN: You don't have a slow-mo that you can -- we don't have time.

S. O'BRIEN: They have pictures in local papers, actually. Slowed it down and showed it, really dramatic. I mean, here, they've got to run it again for you. Take a look at this. I mean, it's just shocking.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, yes. Is that it?

COSTELLO: Keep watching.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm at the edge of my seat. Oh, wow. Man, oh man.

COSTELLO: Really frightening.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you.

COSTELLO: So there you go. And they're on the lookout for that suspect today.

M. O'BRIEN: It's a dangerous job, isn't it?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it sure can be.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Carol.

Widespread violence marks the first anniversary of the U.S. handover of sovereignty in Iraq. A U.S. soldier was killed by a suicide car bomb near a coalition base in Balla (ph) today. A city council member was one of the seven killed in Baghdad during a three and a half hour drive-by shooting spree.

A suicide bomber killed at least three people, injured another 13 outside a hospital today, in Musayib, a town south of Baghdad. Just north of the capital, a prominent Shiite leader and member of the Iraqi National Assembly was killed in a second attack. The attack is likely to inflame ethnic anger.

A police chief was targeted in the northern city of Kirkuk. One of his bodyguards and a civilian were killed when a car filled with explosives slammed into their convoy. Three others are injured.

And, 1,000 U.S. troops began a new anti-insurgent campaign west of Baghdad in the Anbar province. Operation Sword is the fifth major offensive launched in just the past few weeks.

The Pentagon is trying to clear up confusion about reports that the U.S. has been talking with insurgents. Barbara Starr, live now at the Pentagon.

Barbara, the Pentagon does not want to be on record as saying they're negotiating, do they?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That is very clear, Miles. They are -- they say that they are not negotiating with insurgents, but now, as we are just several hours away from President Bush's speech this evening down at Ft. Bragg, where he will try and shore up public support for the war in Iraq, there are a lot of questions still swirling around about a potential diplomatic effort, if you will, to reach out to some of the opposition elements inside Iraq.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his top generals, even if the violence continues, acknowledging that they are now talking to some Sunni elements inside Iraq. Sunnis, of course, generally opposed to the U.S. presence inside Iraq. They are making it very clear, it's not negotiations. They are not talking to insurgents with blood on their hands. But they are trying to bring those Sunni elements into the political fold.

General George Casey talking about this here in the Pentagon briefing room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. GEORGE CASEY, CMDR., MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Characterizing these discussions as negotiations is probably not right. They're discussions, and they're discussions primarily aimed at bringing these Sunni leaders and the people they represent into the political process. But to characterize them as negotiations with insurgents about stopping the insurgency, we're not quite there yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So where do things stand? They are talking to Sunnis. They say they are not talking to Sunnis with blood on their hands. They are not talking to the foreign fighter elements of the insurgency. They are not talking to the Zarqawi crowd at all. That is off the table.

But what they are also saying, as time goes on, as they try and broaden the political process inside Iraq, they may, indeed, start talking to more of the Sunni insurgent elements, some of the people that have been behind some of the attacks. They might have to be brought in to the political process, into the political fold.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, very adamant that he believes it is the political process in Iraq that will eventually defeat the insurgency. And making it very clear he is willing to take some steps in that direction, not go towards the people who have caused so much havoc against American servicemen, but try and bring some of the opposition elements into the political fold -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Of course, our best -- hard thing has got to be figuring out just exactly who you're talking to. Must be very difficult to know.

STARR: Well, that is exactly right. General Casey talking about that. He says a lot of people come forward and say, look, we have information, we can put you in touch with insurgents, we can get you in the right direction. General Casey saying they have to proceed very cautiously because they're never entirely sure who they are dealing with. So it's a very delicate process -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you. The president's speech will be live at on CNN tonight, of course. 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific, other times elsewhere. CNN's special coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We'll take to you Aruba now, where the family of missing teenager Natalee Holloway expressing some frustration with that investigation. Natalee Holloway disappeared more than four weeks ago and with the recent release of two men from police custody, family members are now wondering if they're ever going to find out what happened.

Chris Lawrence now, live for us in Palm Beach, in Aruba. Chris, good morning to you. How does this investigation stand right now?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Depends who you talk to. The prosecutors are telling us that they're still out there looking for the truth. But the family is fed up and basically feels like they're all the way back to square one. In fact, it's so bad right now that even the search teams are starting to really feel that pressure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): A team of volunteers from Texas is making up for lost time. Natalee Holloway disappeared a month ago, and the Texas team is fully aware the window is closing.

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: The object is to find Natalee. And every day that goes by, she's probably deteriorating more and more and more.

LAWRENCE: Tim Miller still hopes to find Natalee alive. Investigators say the same. But the three suspects still in custody have all been accused of kidnapping and murder, even though no one has been formally charged.

Natalee's family believes the key to finding her may be in this prison, where Joran Van Der Sloot is locked up. The teenager told his mother that he left Natalee alone on a beach and then walked home. BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: I want him to tell the truth. He knows exactly what happened. He knows what, where, when, who, why and how. He knows the answers.

LAWRENCE: Beth Holloway Twitty was hopeful Joran's father was arrested last week. But on Sunday, a judge ruled there wasn't enough evidence to hold Paul Van Der Sloot or another suspect, Steve Croes, who worked as a deejay on a local tour boat. When the judge released them, Natalee's mother lost patience with the investigation.

TWITTY: I feel like that I have carried this and at June 13th, you know, I really felt like we were pushing forward and we were working together. And, you know, after this weekend when it's ripped out from me, you know, I don't know. Maybe I need a chart. You know, I would love to know where I am. I don't know if I'm at the beginning, I don't know if I'm in the middle. You know, I don't think any of us know where we are anymore.

LAWRENCE: If any of this affected the search team, they didn't show it, diving right into the investigation and trying to find any evidence that may have been missed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Now, one of the key turning points in this case could come in one week. That's when prosecutors have to prove to a judge why they should be able to keep these three suspects in custody for up to sixty days more. If they can, they get another two months to interrogate them. If they can't, all three could just walk three -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We will see. Chris Lawrence for us this morning. Chris, thanks.

Let's talk about the wildfires that are now burning out West. At least 20 large wildfires, a number of new ones, in fact, reported on Monday. The largest are burning in Alaska, in Arizona, in California and Nevada, in New Mexico, in Washington and in Utah.

In Utah about 400 firefighters are still battling a blaze in the southwestern part of the state. More than 1,000 residents in the town of New Harmony, in fact, were forced to get out on Monday. Several homes are now said to be in danger. Officials say the fire there is only about 30 percent contained.

Vince Mazzier is with the Bureau of Land Management. He's on the phone for us from Cedar City in Utah this morning.

Vince, good morning to you.

Give us the latest update on what you know about this fire?

VINCE MAZZIER, BUREAU OF LAND MGMT.: Good morning, Soledad.

The fire last night was pushed north by some erratic fire behavior and caused the evacuation of the town of New Harmony and several subdivisions around it. It quickly turned around with the weather change and went back on itself. Some structures were threatened, but none have been lost so far.

S. O'BRIEN: So are the homes that were threatened before it turned around still threatened? And if not, are those folks then allowed to go back to their houses?

MAZZIER: They're not allowed back in their houses yet. The situation still is quite dangerous, with the erratic weather behavior that we're expecting today. I would -- we've got firefighters in that area right now, and they'll be doing their best to button that part up and allow those folks back in when it's safe.

S. O'BRIEN: You sure have had a big problem with the wind. I know that's been erratic as well. Are you anywhere hear getting a grip on this fire?

MAZZIER: Well, as you said, it's only 30 percent contained. Mother Nature has the final call on that. And with the wet spring that we've had, the light fuels that carry the fire with wind are still out there and it's a bumper crop, so couldn't make any kind of guess on when that's going to be.

S. O'BRIEN: As you mentioned, some 400 firefighters on the scene of that fire. Vince Mazzier, thanks for talking with us, and best of luck in fighting that blaze -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, in a year of high-profile security breaches across the country, you might be surprises who the IRS hired to handle its data. Andy's "Minding Your Business."

S. O'BRIEN: Plus, the Supreme Court begins its summer recess. Summer legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin tells us why the past term was a surprising one. That's up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Excuse me.

A follow-up now on a story we brought you Monday about "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller. The Supreme Court has refused to hear her appeal. Now the decision increases the likelihood that she will see some jail time. A lower court is holding Miller in contempt, along with "Time" magazine reporter Matthew Cooper for refusing to identify confidential sources.

That was just one of many decisions the high court made Monday, the last day of its term. What distinguished this term from the others, and what was it like being there for this last day of the term? CNN's senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin was there.

A lot of sort of pomp and circumstance associated with all this.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Always. And even moreso because everybody was on edge of their seat yesterday at 10:00 sharp when it began. But instantly you could tell, as soon as the nine justices walked out, that the chief wasn't going to resign.

M. O'BRIEN: Really? How did you know.

TOOBIN: You could tell by looking at their faces. They were all very relaxed. It just looked like business as usual. There is a great personal affection for Chief Justice Rehnquist across the political spectrum among the justices. And if he had told them he was leaving, they would not look the way they did. So I mean, you could tell as soon as he came out.

M. O'BRIEN: You knew?

And, meanwhile, he did not look so well?

TOOBIN: Awful, I thought. I mean I'd seen him when he was well. I had seen him when he came back in the spring after his illness. He looked even more sick than he did in April. He's got -- that's him coming -- on his way to work yesterday. And sometimes he walks with a walker, and here he's walking under his own steam. But his voice was extremely difficult to understand. He's got a tracheotomy tube still in, so he's got it amplified.

I mean, it's really courageous what he's doing. The question is, how much longer can he do it.

M. O'BRIEN: And by all accounts, he's still mentally able to do the job.

TOOBIN: In fact, he said something really funny. I've never heard a laugh as big as I heard in the Supreme Court chamber yesterday. In the Texas Ten Commandments cases, there were lots of different opinions. And he read the concurring, dissenting, and then he sort of paused, and he said, I didn't know we had that many people on the court. And the place sort of fell down because everybody was so nervous. And then he thanked the staff for all the hard work. The building's being renovated. He said that put a lot of pressure on them, and he thanked, and then he left, and without any resignation.

M. O'BRIEN: And they left of course with this Ten Commandment pair of decisions. Didn't really clarify much of anything, did it?

TOOBIN: Not much, although I think you can draw a line that makes a certain amount of sense. Basically what the Texas case said was, if there has been a Ten Commandments monument up for a long time, nobody has had any complaints about it, it's sort of sitting on its own -- a lot of these were built in the '50s or '60s without any controversy -- they can stay where they are.

However, there has been a push to add new ones, clearly for religious reasons. And that's what the Kentucky case was all about. And these new ones, I think, are going to be likely struck down because they have a religious purpose. The intent there is to proselytize, and I think Justice Suder's made it pretty clear that shouldn't stay up.

M. O'BRIEN: Another recent case was this eminent domain cases. And when you start looking at these cases, it's very hard to figure out if the Federalist intention of the chief justices really succeeded in this session.

TOOBIN: You know, I think one of the real surprises in this term is just how often Chief Justice Rehnquist lost. You know, notwithstanding the great affection for him, he has not been that influential. He lost on the eminent domain cases, and he's been a great defender of private property rights. He lost in medical marijuana, because he's been a state's rights person and that was a decision that said the federal government controls. You know, he lost on the more important Ten Commandments case. So I think the chief has seen his interests -- his influence wane over the last couple of years.

M. O'BRIEN: And all these 5-4 decisions. What they do really is kind of embolden both sides that the fight goes on.

TOOBIN: The fight goes on, and you know, it raises the stakes for the resignations of people who are on -- in the swing votes. I mean, the key person here is Sandra Day O'Connor. She is almost invariably the swing vote. Sometimes it's Anthony Kennedy, but an O'Connor resignation would matter so much more than a Rehnquist resignation, because Justice Rehnquist would simply be replaced by another conservative. If O'Connor would leave, that would really change...

M. O'BRIEN: We haven't talked as much about that. That is a distinct possibility.

TOOBIN: She's 75 years old. Her husband has been ailing. She's been on the court for almost 25 years. Sometimes people decide it's time to go, and we never know when they're going to say they're going to leave.

M. O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, thanks very much. Glad you got a front row seat for that -- Soledad.

TOOBIN: It was great.

S. O'BRIEN: Still ahead this morning, warships from around the world gather off the English coast to commemorate a historic battle. A live report is just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. A consumer data company wins a huge IRS contract. And Google goes wild. And that explains our cupcakes this morning.

Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business." You rock, Andy. Look at this.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" COLUMNIST: Well, thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: You brought the cupcakes, but we're going to talk about that in a moment. SERWER: We'll talk about that in a second, why you get cupcakes for this.

We don't usually talk about data companies too often here, Soledad, but this concerns ChoicePoint. You remember them. They got in trouble back in February for allowing files on 14,000 individuals to be compromised. So far, 750 of those individuals have been defrauded.

Now, it turns out that yesterday this same company was awarded a $20 million, five-year contract by the IRS to provide them with data and security files. How curious is that? So far, no one's really seemed to make the connection here that it's ironic that the IRS is hiring this company to do this kind of work.

M. O'BRIEN: I believe you just did.

SERWER: I think I just did.

Let's talk about the markets quickly here, Soledad. The price of oil falling below $60. And you can see the stock market is responding, equities moving up. The Dow Jones Industrials up 58 points to 10,349. So that's some good news there.

One stock moving up yet again is Google. It's up. 84 cents to $306.69. And it broke $300, so therefore, Soledad O'Brien, ding ding ding ding, gets cupcakes.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, I'd rather just have a big old bunch of Google stock.

SERWER: Yes, well, see, that's why you get the cupcakes. Because I never recommended the Google stock, I never got you any Google stock. So I said if it crosses $300, you get cupcakes instead. And if it crosses $400, we'll get French pastry or some bigger cakes or something like that.

S. O'BRIEN: Ah, these are so good.

SERWER: Aren't those -- this is from the Magnolia Bakery. Michelle, our intern, went down there and got them.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you sharing or not?

SERWER: They're the best cupcakes in the city. They're fantastic.

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome to New York, Miles. They make the best cupcakes.

SERWER: You're not rich, but you've got great cupcakes. Or something like that.

S. O'BRIEN: I do feel better. I could be a zillionaire, but no, I have cupcakes.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, frosting.

SERWER: Good stuff, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Here, I'll be your teacher, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: That is delicious.

S. O'BRIEN: Hundreds of thousands of people are taking a part in a celebration off the British Coast right now. We're going to tell about that story. It's the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar. Did I say that right?

M. O'BRIEN: Trafalgar.

SERWER: Trafalgar.

M. O'BRIEN: Trafalgar, Trafalgar.

S. O'BRIEN: I knew I said that wrong. Britain's Admiral Horatio Nelson defeated French and Spanish ships in one of the country's greatest naval victories. The battle is going to be re-enacted by 17 ships from five nations today. France and Spain are going to join in a fleet of 167 ships from 35 navies sailing off Portsmouth Harbor.

Walter Rodgers is in Portsmouth, England, this morning. Walter, good morning to you. Give us a sense of what the significance of this battle is and also, of course, the celebration that goes along with it.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, to begin with, the significance of this celebration is that the British are celebrating the fact that they're not French. Recall 200 years ago, Napoleon Bonaparte, the French leader, was dreaming of invading Britain, conquering Britain. The British sent a fleet of 27 ships to the line, down to confront a combined French and Spanish fleet of about 33 ships of the line. And the British just smashed them to smithereens. That obliterated any need or any possibility that Napoleon could ever invade Britain.

Now, of course, Britain's Queen Elizabeth, who is not only queen but Lord High Admiral of the British fleet, has been here today, reviewing a huge canyon of ships, war ships from some 36 countries, upwards of 150 war ships. She's been standing aboard her Ice Breaker, as it were, waving to the assembled fleets.

This fleet review, incidentally, is a tradition that goes back to Edward III in the year 1311. The United States did send a small amphibious carrier, the Sipan (ph), here, but the French sort of upstaged everybody by sending the British warship, an aircraft carrier, the Charles De Gaulle.

The British still have not exactly forgiven the French for the Napoleonic Wars. One or two of the British gentleman with whom I spoke said, we trashed them then and we ought to thrash them again. And another Englishman here said, we ought to side with the Americans. You know, you can never trust those French, they never speak our language.

Back to you -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Pretty remarkable pictures. Walt Rodgers for us this morning. Wow, that looks great. Thanks for talking with us, Walt.

M. O'BRIEN: The Brits do pageantry. They really do.

S. O'BRIEN: They sure do, and they do it well.

M. O'BRIEN: And these guys do cupcakes. All right, time for us to take a break. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: We're out of time. Andy, thank you very much for the cupcakes.

SERWER: You're welcome.

S. O'BRIEN: Next time, how about just the stock, that would be helpful.

SERWER: OK. We'll try. But it was pretty good.

M. O'BRIEN: But we'll take your cupcakes.

SERWER: Both is what you would want.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm joking you. Very, very good. Appreciate that. Betty Nguyen's over at the CNN Center. She's going to be with you for the next few hours on CNN LIVE TODAY. Hey, Betty.

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