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American Morning

Envoys Targeted in Iraq; Reporters Face Jail; London Chosen to Host 2012 Olympics

Aired July 06, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. This is what it looks like in Singapore. You're looking at the scene. Just moments from now, we're going to find out which city -- will it be London, will it be Paris? -- is going to host the 2012 Olympics.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And it looks more like a Web site actually is what it looks like. Oh, there we go. There's Singapore.

S. O'BRIEN: As I said, it's a shot change.

M. O'BRIEN: It's very clean there in Singapore, as I hear. Isn't it death to littering there, I believe?

S. O'BRIEN: There are big fines if you litter, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Big fines, yes. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. We're talking about the Olympics and whether it's, at this point, Paris or London.

S. O'BRIEN: Right. Although Andy, I thought, had made an interesting point, You know, it's a big financial loss leader for a city to go ahead and build a stadium and then upkeep all of these, you know, different venues. So, people here, of course, many of us are crying, because the Olympics didn't come, because it would be cool and you could rent out your apartment even if you didn't want to go. But maybe there's a silver lining.

M. O'BRIEN: Kelly has got to cancel the deal right now.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: All ready to go. Oh, well.

S. O'BRIEN: In the meantime, let's talk about the weather this morning. The Big Easy is breathing a big sigh of relief as Tropical Storm Cindy blows through with lots of rain, but not too much destruction. The storm pelted southern Louisiana early this morning with gusty winds, wrenching rain.

One local official categorized it as a major inconvenience. For now, flooding is the biggest concern for residents. The region was expected to get up to 10 inches of rain.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get a look at the other headlines this morning with Kelly Wallace, who is in for Carol today.

Hey, good morning.

WALLACE: Thanks, Soledad.

Here are some of those stories "Now in the News."

President Bush is overseas getting ready to head to Scotland for the G8 summit. During a stopover visit to Denmark, the president thanked the prime minister there for sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan. He also defended his decisions on Iraq, aid to Africa and climate change.

Meanwhile, demonstrators once again clashing with police near Edinburgh. Police have shut down several roads in the area after protesters disrupted traffic on one of Scotland's busiest highways.

More details are emerging about the six-week ordeal of Shasta and Dylan Groene. Eight-year-old Shasta apparently told police she and her brother, Dylan, were repeatedly raped shortly after their abduction. That's according to an investigative report released Tuesday. Shasta's statement also places the suspect, Joseph Duncan, inside the home where the girl's mother, older brother and mother's boyfriend were bound and bludgeoned to death. Duncan was charge Tuesday with two counts of first-degree kidnapping. Nine-year-old Dylan is presumed dead.

Several wildfires are raging in Southern California on this day. More than 1,500 acres have been destroyed as of this morning. Firefighters are using helicopters to drop water on a fast-moving fire in Los Angeles County. A handful of homes are threatened. At least two other fires are burning in surrounding areas.

And cyclist Lance Armstrong is getting closer to a possible number seven. That is right. The six-time Tour de France winner earns the Yellow Jersey Tuesday. That puts him in the lead for today. The race ends July 24 on the Champs Elysees in Paris. And this, of course, is Armstrong's final tour, Miles. He says it's the final tour. I guess we'll have to see.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, he says that, and he just keeps coming back.

WALLACE: Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: And I think he really enjoys the challenge. You know, this is a guy who knows a lot about challenges, obviously.

WALLACE: He sure does.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Kelly.

Let's take a look at some live pictures quickly to give you a sense of what's going on in -- all right. This is actually the promotional video from Paris, which is being played in Singapore now for the members of the International Olympic Committee. I guess it's sort of like the last, last pitch. And so, they're taking a look at this, and they have one more round of voting to go with only Paris and London now in the running. It's sort of the battle of the English Channel. Which side of the English Channel will the Olympics be on in 2012?

And this is Paris' best effort right here. And as soon as this turns into a vote and we have an answer for you, we'll bring it to you.

Meanwhile, a series of attacks in Iraq have targeted diplomats from Muslim countries. Tuesday, Bahrain's envoy was wounded by gunfire, and a convoy carrying Pakistan's ambassador was fired on. And the group, al Qaeda In Iraq, has apparently claimed responsibility for Saturday's kidnapping of Egypt's ambassador.

CNN cannot authenticate the claim, but it reads: "We announce, al Qaeda In Iraq, that the Egyptian ambassador has been kidnapped by our mujahideen, and he is under their control. God bless them."

Joining us now, CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen to give us some insights into all of this.

Peter, good to have you with us. This is an interesting tactic. Do you think it will work?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Very possibly. I mean, the insurgents have proven themselves, you know, capable of some strategic thinking. They've attacked aid workers and made it very difficult for aid workers to work in Iraq. They have attacked journalists and made it very, very difficult for journalists to work in Iraq. They have targeted Iraqi police officers as a group and made it harder to get recruitment.

And so, by attacking diplomats, clearly there's an effort to get particularly Muslim countries to withdraw their representatives from Iraq. Already the Pakistan ambassador has -- the Pakistani diplomat who was attacked yesterday has gone to Jordan.

So, I think if this continues, clearly Muslim countries, after all who were generally not supporters of the war in Iraq in the first place, certainly their populations were opposed to it generally speaking. And I think that this tactic may well, if it continues, yield results.

We've seen already, you know, the United Nations -- attacks against the United Nations resulted in the United Nations pullout. Attacks against the Red Cross resulted in the Red Cross pullout.

So, I think that these sorts of organized attacks, responsible people will say, hey, it's too dangerous for my people in there. I'm going to get them out of there.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it's interesting that Bahrain, Pakistan and Egypt have been singled out so far, because if you had to pick countries that have the closest ties to the U.S. in the Middle East, they'd be on the list. So, no coincidence there? BERGEN: I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not. I mean, certainly those countries have been strong allies of the United States, but there are other Muslim countries; for instance, Morocco. I mean, there are a large number of Muslim countries that are allied with the United States. So, it may simply be coincidental rather than a patent of simply countries that are closely allied to the United States.

M. O'BRIEN: I've got to admit, Peter, I'm a little surprised that these envoys are driving around alone in vehicles. Why?

BERGEN: That's a good question. I mean, I don't think -- you know, there may be a presumption that if you're an Arab that somehow that gives you immunity. But we've seen again and again that it doesn't. You know, it's impossible for westerners to travel in unarmored vehicles at this point in Baghdad. It seems now that, you know, that includes Arab diplomats as well.

M. O'BRIEN: Is the goal, as you pointed out just a moment ago, is it about intimidation? Or is it also possibly that al Qaeda In Iraq is after some ransom money as well? Or could it be both?

BERGEN: I think there's been some patent of kidnappings simply for money. And there is, you know, a huge crime problem in Baghdad as well. However, I think in this instance, if indeed this claim of responsibility is correct from al Qaeda In Iraq, I think that they're after more of a strategic goal, getting Muslim countries to withdraw their representatives than money.

M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this as a final thought here. At what point when the target become Muslims and Iraqi citizens, at what point does a genuine backlash begin in Iraq against these insurgents?

BERGEN: Well, Miles, as you know, I mean, Muslims are -- you know, Iraqis and Muslims are overwhelmingly the people who are receiving the blunt end of all of this. You know, just as these diplomats were being killed, some 10 other Iraqis on the same day were killed around the country, including four on the road to the airport in Baghdad. So, they are bearing the brunt of it.

At what point is there a backlash? Who knows. I mean, clearly this has been going on for some period of time. But the insurgents, you know, their aim is to make the security situation deteriorate substantially. I think they've had actually, unfortunately, a great deal of success in the last year.

M. O'BRIEN: Unfortunately. CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen, thanks for your time.

BERGEN: Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, two reporters could learn this afternoon if they're going to jail for protecting their sources. "TIME" magazine's Matthew Cooper and Judith Miller of "The New York Times" are in contempt of court for refusing to reveal who leaked the identity of a CIA agent. We should note that "TIME" magazine's parent company, Time Warner, is also CNN's parent company.

Kelly Wallace has got more on this story.

You've been following this, and I know you've had many conversations with Judith Miller. But today is really the day.

WALLACE: It is the day. And the federal prosecutor, Soledad is indicating he is going to continue taking a hard line with these reporters, because he still is demanding the testimony of both Cooper and Miller, even after, as you know, "TIME" magazine decided to hand over e-mails and documents related to the case.

And so, now with the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case, it is up to a federal judge to decide what should happen. The stage is set for a high-stakes hearing this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice over): In court documents demanding the testimony of the two reporters, federal special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wrote, "Journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality -- no one in America is."

He said the testimony of Matthew Cooper of "TIME" magazine remains necessary for his investigation into who leaked the name of a covert CIA agent. Last week, "TIME" magazine chose to turn over e- mails and other internal documents. Time, Inc.'s editor-in-chief, Norman Pearlstine, told Soledad he hoped this would mean Cooper was no longer in legal jeopardy.

NORMAN PEARLSTINE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, TIME, INC.: Because my own view is that by turning over this information, we obviate the need for Matt to even testify, let alone be incarcerated. But I can't speak for Judge Hogan (ph).

WALLACE: The special prosecutor also opposed the request of Cooper and Judith Miller of "The New York Times" to be placed under house arrest or be sent to a prison of their own choosing.

Wrote Fitzgerald, "Forced vacation at a comfortable home is not a compelling form of coercion."

Cooper and Miller and their attorneys declined to comment.

In an exclusive interview late last month, Miller, who never actually wrote a story about the agent in question, said she would never reveal her confidential sources.

JUDITH MILLERM, "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER: This is either a principle or it's not. And for me, it's a kind of cardinal principle of our profession. You don't rat on sources.

WALLACE: The person who first reported the name of CIA operative Valerie, Plame, syndicated columnist Robert Novak, who is also a CNN contributor. Last week on CNN's "INSIDE POLITICS," Novak, whose role in the investigation remains a mystery, said he hoped Miller and Cooper would not go to jail.

ROBERT NOVAK, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I deplore the thought of reporters -- I've been a reporter all my life -- going to jail for any period of time for not revealing sources. But my lawyer said I cannot answer any specific questions about this case until it is resolved, which I hope is very soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And that hearing is this afternoon, 2:00 p.m. in Washington, D.C. Miller and Cooper, Soledad, could spend the next 120 days in jail if the judge decides to send them to prison.

S. O'BRIEN: We've been hearing Karl Rove's name in association with this story. What potentially is his role in this?

WALLACE: "Newsweek" reported this past weekend that Karl Rove was one of the people who Matthew Cooper talked to in the days before Valerie Plame's identity was revealed. Now, Rove's attorney is telling CNN that Rove did not pass along any confidential information, and also the attorney is saying that the prosecutor has told him that Rove is not a target of the investigation. But obviously this has come out.

"TIME" magazine is not revealing the e-mails or the documents, and is not saying who Matthew Cooper's sources are.

So, obviously, we'll have to watch and see how the investigation unfolds.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly, thanks a lot.

WALLACE: Sure.

S. O'BRIEN: We should mention that we are awaiting word about the Olympics and the future there, the 2012 Olympics. Will they be in London or will they be in Paris? That's coming up this morning.

Let's get right to Miles with more on that.

M. O'BRIEN: As a matter of fact, this could be the big moment. There's the IOC -- well, maybe not. He was getting ready to talk.

We've been watching promotional videos for each of the cities, including the ones that have already been eliminated. I'm sure everybody in the crowd is, like, I've heard enough about all of these cities. But Mr. Rogge is perhaps about to make the announcement. It's down to Paris or London.

And why don't we -- you see they're standing up there. So, it appears as they do the Olympic anthem. I don't think I have to be silent during the Olympic anthem, do I? No. OK.

So, we'll press on into the gathered parties from the various delegations, wait for word on precisely which city gets it. Is it Paris or is it London? As we've been telling you all this morning, New York took it on the chin early. Moscow...

s. O'BRIEN: Only an hour ago.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: They really announced the three who would be out of the running.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I mean, you made the joke about Paris having the better food. But the truth is that Paris actually hasn't hosted the Olympics since 1924. But there certainly has been a lot of the glitz and the glamour around it with the decision made sort of an hour ago.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. So, now as this, you know, this whole little show, I guess, they have a show going there.

S. O'BRIEN: It's sort of a show.

M. O'BRIEN: They have a show going there. It's kind of a show, you could call it that, in Singapore, as they lead to this build-up to this big announcement.

Now, of course, we've been talking this morning about what this means for a city. And as Andy Serwer pointed out, in many respects the cities that are out of the running may be the true winners economically...

S. O'BRIEN: The financing, certainly.

M. O'BRIEN: ... because really the bills come due on this thing. And when you consider, you know, poor Athens, which, of course, the home of the Olympics, the ancient Olympics, spent 5 percent of its gross domestic product.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. And $1.4 billion in security alone. It was pretty amazing.

I guess we should talk a little bit about how the voting is done. There are 116 members of the IOC. And the voting -- excuse me -- was taking place in Singapore. It's done by rounds until one city obtains the majority. And all of the voting is actually done electronically. The representatives, I guess, continued up to really the last minute to make their full court presses to try to influence the voting members and sway them.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, they probably could have stayed home and e- mailed it in, I suppose.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: But they would have missed all of the parties in Singapore. S. O'BRIEN: The party and the wining and the dining.

M. O'BRIEN: There was a little of that, I suspect...

S. O'BRIEN: What would be the point?

M. O'BRIEN: ... as those delegations came through. Hillary Clinton, along with Mayor Bloomberg for the New York delegations there, doing all of their best. Muhammad Ali was there trying to whip up support. But it all fell short.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes, and it's down, as we mentioned, to the two winners. Look at the absolute silence in London and Paris...

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: ... where people are absolutely waiting with bated breath.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, we have live feeds coming out of Trafalgar Square and then Paris City Hall.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: And, you know, lunchtime crowds. There's Trafalgar Square.

S. O'BRIEN: Look at those people.

M. O'BRIEN: They're taking a break from their fish and chips, or perhaps eating fish and chips while they're waiting to see what the answer will be.

S. O'BRIEN: There hasn't been an Olympic Games in London since 1948.

M. O'BRIEN: And imagine what that was like immediately after World War II in London, what that meant to have the Olympics there at that time.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: That's...

S. O'BRIEN: And that's really -- oh, here it goes.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the chief of Scutininia (ph), Dr. Thomas...

S. O'BRIEN: This is the version of the envelope, please.

M. O'BRIEN: This is -- she's the Olympic needle pointer with the pillow there.

S. O'BRIEN: No, no, she's an athlete.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, she's an athlete.

S. O'BRIEN: An Olympic sailor, apparently.

M. O'BRIEN: An Olympic sailor.

S. O'BRIEN: And she is bringing the envelope, please.

M. O'BRIEN: Look at that, on the pillow and everything. That's a nice little touch. That is the IOC president, Jacques Rogge. Let's listen to him for just a moment.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to thank our wonderful hosts and the people of Singapore, who have worked so hard to make our meeting possible.

(APPLAUSE)

I would also like to thank the nine cities that began this election process some two years ago out of which five finalists made it to be with us here today. All of you could organize and host excellent Olympic Games. You have given us inspirational presentations. But only one of you can be elected as the host city. I thank all of you for showing very competitive spirit in this long race.

The International Olympic Committee has the honor of announcing that the games of the 30th Olympiad in 2012 are awarded to the city of London.

(APPLAUSE)

S. O'BRIEN: And there you have it. The news is in. London has been chosen as the site of the 2012 Olympic Games. A little bit of an upset.

M. O'BRIEN: I know.

S. O'BRIEN: Because many people felt that, in fact, Paris was the true frontrunner. And you can see the joy in London today, and the lack of joy in Paris as well, we can imagine.

M. O'BRIEN: We haven't shown Paris City Hall, but, yes, look at them celebrating there. This is an exciting moment.

S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely overjoyed. And the Olympics were last in London back in 1948. I'm sure that there are many people there who think it's about time.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, they've had -- Great Britain, we should say, has had in recent years a series of bids. Manchester, England, was trying to get in at one point. And now that London is back in it, I mean, especially when you consider London of what it will be in 2012 versus London in 1948, you know, it's a great bookmarks of history here.

Fionnuala Sweeney is somewhere in the midst of that crowd. I don't see you right now, Fionnuala. But I assume a bit raucous there now.

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, you could have heard a pin drop just a moment ago, and now I can't hear anything. But just when Jacques Rogge said the games are awarded to the city of, everyone here began to cheer, because they felt they had worked for this. They felt they had deserved this.

And this isn't any old victory. This is a victory against, of all cities, Paris. There's a huge historical rivalry between Paris and London. And that makes the victory for Londoners all the more sweet.

There is going to be the mother of all parties here. Nobody is going back to work this afternoon, apart from probably me.

So, Miles, there's been a long waiting for this. London was not the favorite to win. But Tony Blair and others on the IOC Committee believe that if the voting system went their way and as each city began to pull away with the voting, that London would strike across the finish line. They've done it. Welcome to the party!

M. O'BRIEN: Fionnuala, as far as I'm concerned, you can have the rest of the day off. And I guess it is particularly sweet that people knew it came down to Paris or London, a tale of two cities, really.

SWEENEY: It is definitely a tale of two cities. It is definitely a tale of two cities. A row really erupting over the weekend, started by Jacque Chirac, the French president when he made some off-the-record remarks about the state of English cooking. Tony Blair, gallantly using diplomatic language, declined to go into that and what it might mean for the Anglo-Franco relations.

But there is no doubt that when Jacques Chirac leaves Singapore, which he will do momentarily, and fly to Gleneagles in Scotland for the G8 summit, that there will be some interesting words to be said, because not only will he congratulate Tony Blair on a victory for London and the Olympics and their strong Olympic bid, he will also be forced to suffer British cuisine, mainly Scottish cuisine over the next few days.

There has been a huge lobbying going on here between the French and the British. The French, they've gone for this three times. One has to feel sorry for them, really, because they felt they had the perfect bid.

Indeed in the last evaluation, the IOC couldn't find anything wrong with France's bid, while there were some criticism about London's transport and also building facilities. But that's been overcome now.

And, as I say, here we're, and it's going to be quite some party. Work will begin, though, on the Olympics 2012 in the next 48 hours. That's what the IOC Londoners say.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Fionnuala, congratulations to everybody there. I guess Jacques Chirac will be eating haggis with a side of crow, right?

S. O'BRIEN: And London has the last laugh. Yes, I'm sure the prime minister will maybe take it easy on him.

M. O'BRIEN: I'd like to see that.

S. O'BRIEN: That big lie. Congratulations to London and to Great Britain as a whole. And a short break. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: It would help if we said "let's dance" for the dancers, you know, for those who couldn't put it all together. Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. It's time for another all-new episode of "90-Second Pop" with our stars this morning. Sarah Bernard from "New York" magazine. Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com. And Karyn Bryant from "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."

Good morning. Good morning.

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right to it. What about the Olympics, huh?

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: But that's not one of our topics. I'm just throwing it out there. Dance-off finale, another thing I love.

KARYN BRYANT, CNN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": This show is so fantastic, "Dancing With the Stars." It's on ABC, a huge hit for them this summer.

S. O'BRIEN: Shocker.

BRYANT: It's so cheesy and loveable and fantastic. It's, you know, John O'Hurley is in the finale.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

BRYANT: He, of course, is J. Peterman from "Seinfeld."

S. O'BRIEN: And he's against Kelly Monaco.

BRYANT: Exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: From "General Hospital." BRYANT: Exactly. Tonight is the big dance-off. This show, it's actually a British -- speaking of London -- British import originally. "Strictly Come Dancing" it was called. It's just taken over. And people are loving the fact that it's this corny dance-off ballroom dancing show with a cheesy band.

S. O'BRIEN: I have a theory about this.

BRYANT: Go ahead.

S. O'BRIEN: I was talking to my little neighbor, who is 7 years old. She loves this show. And it's like you know what? There are not a lot of shows that you can watch with your kids not feel like something you don't want to see with your kids.

BERNARD: This really has been the first reality show that doesn't have a giant cash prize. They actually don't win anything, except a trophy.

BOROWITZ: A little trophy. A little trophy.

BERNARD: And, you know, it has nothing to do with dating or making people eat worms.

BRYANT: More than anybody, I mean, the other reality shows.

BOROWITZ: My theory is that compared to watching celebrities playing poker, it's the most exciting show on TV.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I would give you that. You know, not everybody is (INAUDIBLE).

BRYANT: Oh, there's going to be "Skating With the Stars," which I love that idea.

BERNARD: Oh, a lot of fun.

BOROWITZ: So we can watch celebrities fall down.

(CROSSTALK)

BOROWITZ: That's good.

BRYANT: There will be...

S. O'BRIEN: Like snowboarding with the stars?

Yes, exactly. There's going to be a show on Fox called "So You Think You Can Dance?" And also "Ballroom Bootcamp" on TLC. So, it's just, you know, whenever a good idea comes along...

S. O'BRIEN: Everyone jumps on it and exploits it.

BERNARD: There was in the pipeline before the success of it.

(CROSSTALK) S. O'BRIEN: Then that is weird. Let's talk about Martha Stewart. She's got this big interview she did with "Vanity Fair." The tone of the interview I thought was kind of strange. She's a little Martha unplugged.

BOROWITZ: She misses prison, right?

BERNARD: She does miss prison, which is a surprising thing. She said that she feels more confined in her home in Bedford than she did on the grounds of Alderson, because she was allowed to walk around the 100 acres of the property. And she has to stay obviously in the confinement of the footprint of her house.

But, I mean, some people have said that the article was surprising, because she said she wasn't necessarily so sorry for what she did.

S. O'BRIEN: The tone was a little strange. Yes, she talks at one point about she went on the Internet, how she could take her electronic monitor off.

BERNARD: Exactly. Well, she doesn't do it. She doesn't do it. She just said she's very resourceful, Martha.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I know how to do it.

BERNARD: You know, she could take it off.

S. O'BRIEN: I could take it off.

BRYANT: I could show them how.

BERNARD: Now, I think she's done her time. I think we have to give her a little break and move past that. What was more interesting to me in the piece were the details of how she lives there. Everything in Bedford is two colors, gray or black. Even her horses are black. And sometimes these particular horses turn red in the sun, so she keeps them indoors during the day.

BOROWITZ: Prison is actually less restrictive than Martha's place, if you're a horse.

BERNARD: Exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, you say that's interesting too. But you know what I find kind of interesting is how will her future projects, of which she has a zillion, be successful if she's not willing to say, I'm sorry? If she says things like I miss prison, I think that might work against you in kind of a public perception.

BRYANT: Well, she's saying, too, on the show that she and Mark Burnett, the producer, are working very hard to make her not be this mean perfectionist, evil, you know, leader, yes exactly. So obviously she's going to try to reinvent that somehow. I just don't know...

BERNARD: Well, and this weekend she wasn't saying she's not sorry, she doesn't care. She's just saying she's sorry for the situation and for how it's affected people. But she is not willing to say that she particularly did anything wrong.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

BRYANT: And she thinks...

S. O'BRIEN: Sometimes people don't want the big I'm sorry. And I'm curious how that's going to affect the public perception and then the...

BERNARD: They don't really depend on how Mark Burnett...

(CROSSTALK)

BOROWITZ: I want to see Martha dance.

O'BRIEN: It all comes around. You guys, thank you very much.

A short break. We're back in a moment.

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