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American Morning

Is Karl Rove the Leak?; Bush's Iraq Strategy

Aired July 12, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Massive flooding from Dennis as this storm drenches state after state. Homes underwater in Georgia. Hard rains just keep coming today. Out in the Atlantic, yes, there's another one. Tropical storm Emily forms overnight, gaining strength.
The White House under growing pressure. Karl Rove, one of the president's closest advisers -- did he break the law and leak the name of a covert CIA agent?

And a developing story in Lebanon overnight. A powerful car bomb exploding in a Beirut neighborhood. A top member of the government barely escapes with his life on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Welcome back, everybody.

Also ahead this morning, a story you're only going to see here on CNN.

M. O'BRIEN: Nine months after Vioxx was pulled off the market, we have an interview with a woman bringing a suit against Merck over the drug. We'll hear her claims of what the medicine did to her husband. It should be very interesting.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, considering that it really is the first of, as Andy was saying, 3,800 cases. It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, we'll check in on that.

S. O'BRIEN: Definitely.

But first, let's go right to the headlines, the other stories making news this morning with Kelly Wallace -- hey, Kelly, good morning again.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Soledad.

And good morning, everyone.

Here are some stories now in the news. Tropical storm Emily to tell you about. I know, hard to believe. It is picking up speed over the Atlantic. The fifth storm of the season is nearing the Caribbean, with winds of some 45 miles per hour.

Meantime, back in the United States, people are still cleaning up from Dennis. And the Ohio Valley area is feeling the remnants of what was once a hurricane. Much more on the aftermath of Dennis coming up.

More evacuations are possible today near an 11,000-acre wildfire in southern Colorado. Two more towns have been warned to be ready to run on short notice. Some 5,000 people have been evacuated since the fire started Wednesday. The blaze is one of at least six wildfires in the state. A state of emergency has been declared.

Let's go to the White House now.

Top Senate leaders meeting with President Bush.

Senator Arlen Specter speaking now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: ... new term. And the ending point is that day to the beginning point, is when the president makes the selection. We want to see to it that we don't have somebody so-called hanging out there too long. I think that the word ought to go out that the special interest groups vastly overstate their influence, that what they are doing is counter-productive and a lot of the times insulting, as they gear up these big money raising apparatuses. When they go back to 1987 -- and we hear about that all the time -- the Judge Bork proceedings, the interest groups did not defeat Judge Bork. It just didn't happen. It was his judicial philosophy.

So that to that extent we can turn that off, the whole process is much, much better off.

Characteristically, the hearings start in September. We're going to be consulting really with the leader, Senator Frist, as to whether we want to pursue August. I think it's difficult, but it's possible, and we're retaining some flexibility on that subject.

But one other topic which came up which I think is worthy of mention and doesn't reveal too much, and that is -- Sampson, I'll attribute this to myself as a starter -- to look for somebody as the nominee who does not come out of the traditional circuit courts, that we have if not a monolithic approach, very, very close to that, with now Justice O'Connor going, having been in the state legislature and the chief justice having been in the Justice Department and everybody else is from the circuit courts, that it would be good to have some diversity.

As one commentator mentioned, "Brown v. Board" was decided by a court which pulled the country together and it had three ex-senators on it. It might even have four senators on it, like the four of us here today. Who could tell about something like that? But that was one item which the president listened. The president, of course, speaks for himself, but it was a good meeting and, as I already indicated, a good start.

Patrick?

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: If I could just follow-up on that, Arlen.

I remember having a conversation with President Reagan when he was asking some of us what we thought about on the Supreme Court, and a similar one with President Clinton. In both cases, I said consider somebody outside the judicial monastery. I've talked to -- each of us have -- with a number of the current justices. I know they see a number of benefits that could come to having somebody from outside the judicial monastery. President Clinton actually offered it to somebody who was not a judge and that person decided not to accept it.

And that's one consideration. And we discussed that thoroughly. This, I see this meeting as a first step in the consulting. I think we can have, and the president could certainly nominate somebody who would unite us and not divide us, somebody who would go through with the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrats voting for him or her. That would be a great thing to do for the integrity of the court, for the comfort level of the country, because, after all, the court is there for every one of the 280 million Americans. It's not there for any special interest group on the right or the left. And that, I would hope -- that, I would hope, could be done.

This is an important -- this is an important decision and it may be one of the first of many on this court. I would hope that when we would go first with a touch tone that the Supreme Court is there to protect the rights of all Americans, it's the ultimately check and balance. And then let's seek somebody, let's seek somebody that would unite us, all of us, in the Senate first and foremost, but then in the American public in such a selection.

I think it can be done. I hope it will be done.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We'll be happy to take a couple of questions.

QUESTION: Chairman, when you talk about...

QUESTION: How soon does the president have to appoint somebody?

REID: Pardon me?

QUESTION: How soon would the president have to name someone (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

REID: We -- there are no time lines in this. The only time line.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WALLACE: And you've been listening to the Democratic and Republican leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee; also, the Democratic Senate leader, Harry Reid, speaking there now. The Republican leaders of the Senate, Bill Frist, at that breakfast, as well. Over some coffee, you can imagine, discussion of possible nominees for the Supreme Court to replace outgoing justice, Sandra Day O'Connor.

We'll monitor that story and bring you the latest.

Now back to Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly, thanks.

Of course, potential judicial nominees is a big focus in Washington, D.C. and for the White House, as well.

Another big focus for the White House, this question -- did the White House mislead the public about presidential adviser Karl Rove's role in the leak of an undercover CIA operative's name for nearly two years? The White House has denied any involvement by Rove. But now the White House says no comment.

Suzanne Malveaux has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, was the secret source for "Time" magazine reporter Matt Cooper in a story that eventually ousted a covert CIA agent. But questions remain as to whether any laws were broken.

In e-mails first published in "Newsweek" and Monday's "Washington Post," Cooper tells his boss he "spoke to Rove on double super secret background," regarding Joe Wilson.

The ambassador said he'd been sent by the CIA to investigate whether Iraq was trying to buy uranium in Africa.

According to Cooper's e-mail, Rove tried to warn him off some of Wilson's assertions.

"It was, Karl Rove said, "Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues who authorized the trip."

Her name, Valerie Plame, was first reported by columnist Robert Novak in July 2003, three days after Cooper's conversation with Rove. Since then, a federal prosecutor has been investigating whether any knowingly blew her cover, which is a federal crime. Last august, Rove told CNN...

KARL ROVE, POLITICAL ADVISER: I didn't know her name. I didn't leak her name. MALVEAUX: Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, backs that claim, telling CNN, "A fair reading of Cooper's e-mail suggests that what Karl was trying to do was to discourage "Time" from reporting allegations that proved to be false, not to encourage them to publish anything about Wilson's wife. Luskin says Rove never identified Plame by name, nor did he know she was covert operative.

Some legal observers say Rove's comments to Cooper are irrelevant because they don't meet the high standards set by federal law which make outing a spy a crime.

VICTORIA TOENSING, LEGAL ANALYST: That statement that Karl Rove gave the identity of Wilson's wife can only be illegal if the CIA was taking affirmative measures to protect her identity and Karl Rove was aware that the CIA was doing so.

MALVEAUX: When Rove's name first came up as part of the CIA leak investigation, the White House was seemingly quick to clear him and other administration officials.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: I've known Karl for a long time and I didn't even need to go ask Karl, because I know the kind of person that he is, and he is someone that is committed to the highest standards of conduct.

MALVEAUX: But now the White House has changed its tack.

MCCLELLAN: Those overseeing the investigation expressed a preference to us that we not get into commenting on the investigation while it's ongoing.

MALVEAUX (on camera): Last year, Mr. Bush promised to fire anyone caught leaking, saying that, "if the person violated law, they will be taken care of."

So far, there is no evidence to show that Karl Rove knew that Valerie Plame's identity was being protected.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: "Time" magazine reporter Matt Cooper was set to go to jail last week. Rove, though, gave Cooper last minute permission to talk with investigators. "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller is in jail for refusing to name a secret source for a story that she never published about the leak -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Parts of the Southeast flooded today after heavy rains from Dennis in Georgia. Hundreds of people were forced to evacuate their homes on Sunday and Monday. Some counties in the western part of the state recorded more than eight inches of rain just in a 24 hour period.

Take a look at this. Muddy water overtook the Scream Machine. I wouldn't want to ride that roller coaster today. It would be a little more than you bargained for. That's at the Six Flags Amusement Park just outside of Atlanta.

The storms are also being blamed for one death in Georgia. A man was killed in an Atlanta suburb when a tree crashed through the roof of his bedroom.

Rob Marciano is at the CNN Center with the latest -- Rob, we were sleeping less than a mile away from where that tree killed that person. It is really amazing how Dennis is still packing that punch.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Big time. And you mentioned also that the rainfall that came in around the Atlanta area came in pretty much a 24 hour period and it still topped the rainfall tallies that came in a two day period or more from Dennis in, say, Florida.

These green highlighted counties indicate where there are still flood warnings out for various rivers. The flash flood watch has been discontinued, meaning we don't expect a whole lot more rain today.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, a leaked memo says the U.S. wants to dramatically scale back its forces in Iraq. Is there a time line, perhaps? The deputy secretary of state in Baghdad today. We'll check in with him.

S. O'BRIEN: Plus, a story you're going to see here on CNN, only here. We're going to talk to the plaintiff in the first Vioxx trial. We'll ask her why she blames the drug for the sudden death of her husband. She joins us just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Deadly violence on multiple fronts in Iraq today. An Iraqi police officer killed in Baghdad when passengers in a car opened fire on his car during rush hour. In the northern city of Tal Afar, an explosion kills one civilian, wounding nine others. Locals say a person placed an object in the trunk of a vehicle and then fled the area shortly before that blast. And a car bomb detonated in a northern neighborhood of Kirkuk this morning, killing two Iraqi civilians and wounding seven.

U.S. troop numbers in Iraq stand at about 135,000. It is no secret the U.S. would like to scale that back. But by how much and how soon?

Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick is in Baghdad.

Good morning, sir.

Good to have you with us.

I'd like to start off with troop levels in Baghdad. The British defense secretary, John Reid, is quoted as saying this: "Emerging U.S. plans assume 14 of 18 provinces" -- meaning Iraq -- "could be handed over to Iraqi control by early 2006, allowing a reduction in allied troops from 176,000 down to 66,000."

Is that accurate?

ROBERT ZOELLICK, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I don't know exactly what the British source said, but I just talked with General Casey this morning, who's the commanding general here. And, of course, the focus that we have is the one the president set, which is that as the Iraqi forces stand up, then ours still stand down.

But that's based on the conditions. So I don't think there's a particular plan or time frame separate from the conditions on the ground. And that depends on a lot of factors. That depends on the political process here because as the Iraqis take more charge of their own life and democracy, frankly, it sucks some of the energy out of the insurgency. It depends on the economic conditions and it depends on the training of the Iraqi forces.

M. O'BRIEN: Isn't it a bit of a catch-22, though? As long as U.S. troops are there in full force, it's a little more difficult for the Iraqis to empower themselves.

ZOELLICK: I don't think so, because the primary mission of the U.S. forces is change. It's changed to one of training. Larger numbers are now embedded with the Iraqi units. And the way that the training works is, is that there's initial training, then the Iraqis go out into the field and involve with an action, sometimes an offensive action. Then they come back and train and learn from the experience. And so there's a rating system here of the Iraqi battalions. And you're getting more and more battalions that are moving up to a higher fitness level. And so as that moves forward, then we're better able to deal with the conditions on the ground with Iraqi forces.

But a key element, which is part of my visit here is, is that when you're dealing with an insurgency -- and this is the case of insurgencies around the world -- it's not just a military question. So the challenge going ahead right now about putting together the Iraqi constitution. You've had an elections, an inclusive government. Your viewers might have heard about the efforts to make sure Sunnis are drawn into the process. That'll be very important in determining the ability of the U.S. forces to hand this over to the Iraqis, as well as some of the issues I dealt with in Jordan yesterday with a number of Iraqi ministers, trying to get up the electricity levels, trying to help with the schools.

Because all of these things basically make sure that the Iraqi people, frankly, start to help their own forces and the coalition forces with tactical intelligence.

M. O'BRIEN: A big picture question as we get away here. The Senate minority leader, Harry Reid, had some comments which kind of call into question the whole larger battle in the war on terror. And he said this: "We spend more in Iraq in a single month than we spend on first responders all year. Failure in Iraq is not an option and we will continue to support our troops. But we must do more to support the war on terror here at home." And I know that's a little bit beyond your bailiwick, but nevertheless, I'd like you to comment on that when you look at the larger cost of the war in Iraq versus the cost of security here at home.

ZOELLICK: Well, I'm glad that the minority leader recognizes the importance of Iraq with the overall war on terror. It's a point the president has been making and some have been disputing. And I do think it makes the case that expanding democracy, whether it be in Iraq, whether it be in Afghanistan -- I've been on other stops here in the Middle East -- is an important element. But of course the defense of the home front is, as well. That's why the president pushed for the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.

Now, of course, there's aspects in terms of helping first responders meet with some of those issues. But it has to be done in an economical way, just as it is here. But I think it's good that the country is coming together, recognizing that all of those elms have to be integrated in dealing with the events that we first felt with the harshest force on September 11.

M. O'BRIEN: But should more money be spent domestically?

ZOELLICK: Well, I'm not in a position to know the particular accounts. You know, when you're talking about homeland security, this deals with everything from ambulance services to airports. We obviously, in our past budgets, have had increases not only for the defense, but also for homeland security. But I know the president also wants the money to be well spent.

M. O'BRIEN: Deputy Secretary of State Richard Zoellick.

Thank you for your time -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Coming up next, the first Vioxx case to go to trial. It centers around a seemingly healthy 59-year-old marathon runner who suddenly died. His widow tells us why she blames Vioxx. It's a story you're going to see only on CNN.

Stay with us.

You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: It's been nine months since Vioxx was pulled from the market due to an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Well today jury selection in the first Vioxx lawsuit is underway in Texas.

The plaintiff, Carol Ernst, claims that Vioxx is responsible for her husband Robert's death in 2001.

I spoke with Carol from Houston, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) S. O'BRIEN: Take us back to the day that your husband died in May, 2001. The autopsy said that his death was caused by sudden heart arrhythmia.

Is that right?

CAROL ERNST, PLAINTIFF IN VIOXX SUIT: That's what the autopsy report reported. I was initially told in the emergency room that he had had a massive heart attack.

S. O'BRIEN: So was the difference between those two things ever cleared up for you? Did he die from a massive heart attack? Did he die from a heart arrhythmia or, I guess I don't understand.

ERNST: Well, I'm not a physician and I'm not clear on that either. I think they're both very interrelated.

S. O'BRIEN: He was a very athletic guy. I know he was a big runner. But he also had some medical problems, too. He smoked until he was 40 years old, if I'm not mistaken.

ERNST: Correct.

S. O'BRIEN: He did have clogged arteries. And he had said that he had some issues with drinking.

Could those things have caused his death as opposed to Vioxx?

ERNST: I don't believe so. The smoking and drinking are things that he had stopped at least 15 years prior to his death. And my understanding with the artery issue is that the artery that is at question is not one that controls your heart rhythm.

S. O'BRIEN: Why was he taking Vioxx?

ERNST: He was having some trouble with pain in his hands. He had been taking ibuprofen and doing well, getting good relief. He just would not always remember to take it every six hours and get busy doing something and then his hands would start hurting again. It just seemed so much easier just to take the one dose of Vioxx every day.

S. O'BRIEN: Why do you think that Vioxx caused your husband's death?

ERNST: Just knowing the excellent shape he was in, the reports from his physicals. I know that at the time that he died, Vioxx was the only medication that he was taking. And when I received the autopsy report, I wanted to make sense out of nonsense, so to speak. And I didn't understand why it was different than what I had been told. And so I looked on the Internet just to see if there was something related to that medication that maybe we weren't aware of. And that's when I discovered that they were beginning to find problems with Vioxx. I hadn't heard anything prior to my looking on the Internet.

S. O'BRIEN: Here's what Merck had to say. They said: "Mr. Ernst took Vioxx for approximately six months. There was no difference in the risk of confirmed cardiovascular events between Vioxx and placebo for the first 18 months of the study." Essentially saying that their own studies, while they showed some problems, it certainly wasn't for folks in the first six months of taking the drug.

In another case, they think -- in other words, they think your lawsuit is completely without merit.

How do you respond to that?

ERNST: I don't have access to all of the studies they've done and all of the information that's in the studies. I just firmly believe that given Bob's physical condition, his medical history, that Vioxx is the cause of his death.

S. O'BRIEN: Carol Ernst, suing Merck over Vioxx, causing her husband's death.

Thank you for talking with us this morning.

ERNST: You're welcome.

Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, the investigation into who exposed an undercover CIA operative. Potentially damaging evidence against Karl Rove, but did he commit a crime? Jeff Greenfield will join us a little later on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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