Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Firestorm Over Karl Rove's Role in Leak of CIA Agent's Identity; Discovery Ready for Liftoff

Aired July 13, 2005 - 08:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody, as it comes up to just about 8:30 here in New York, Miles O'Brien is at the Kennedy Space Center, and he of course is watching, along with the rest of us, what happens today with the Space Shuttle Discovery.
Miles, I have a question for you. If for some reason, weather or otherwise, they have to scuttle the launch, how does it work? Do they just set it up for another day? Do they haul the whole thing out? Do they basically shut down the program? What happens?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, well, basically what happens is -- remember I was talking to you about those narrow windows in order to meet up with the space station. There's only one daylight window each day, and it's only five minutes long. So if for some reason they don't get off the pad today, weather or otherwise, they will have to wait 24 hours to launch again. But it's actually 23 hours and 40 minutes. It gets 20 minutes earlier every day. That's just a little quirk of orbital mechanics, and it involves a little more Newtonian physics than I understand, quite frankly. So but the point is, it's a 24-hour turnaround depending on the type of problem.

S. O'BRIEN: Interesting. Is there a point where they say, OK, it's been four days now of downpour, it's not going to happen, and they have to wheel the thing back in and hold off until the next cycle or something?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, yes, if that happened, if Emily was coming down the pike, that hurricane took a turn or something like that, basically by August 1st, they run out of daylight for these five- minute windows, and they only want to launch during daylight hours because of the concerns brought on by debris falling off of Columbia. So eventually, it gets earlier and earlier every day. Eventually, we get into darkness hours, and then they have to stand down until September. So I'm here to tell you, we don't want that to happen. We're hoping that today works out well, because I'd like to get back to New York eventually.

S. O'BRIEN: We're hoping that too for a host of reasons, including that one. All right, Miles. We'll get back to you in a moment.

First, let's get a look at some of the other stories that are making headlines today with Fredricka Whitfield. She's at CNN in Atlanta this morning.

Hey, Fred, good morning again. FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Good morning to you again.

Prime Minister Tony Blair is pledging to work with the Muslim community to help combat some extremists that are acting out in the name of religion. The prime minister spoke to the House of Commons within the past hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think we all know that security measures alone are not going to deal with this. This is not an isolated criminal act we are dealing with. It is an extreme and evil ideology whose roots lie in a perverted and poisonous misinterpretation of the religion of Islam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The comments come as police are focusing their search on the town of Leeds, some 200 miles north of London. Three of the four suspected bombers are believed to have lived there.

Pakistan's president is offering his condolences to the families of those killed in a massive train accident in southern Pakistan. Railway officials say missing signals at a station caused a deadly chain reaction that led to the collision of three trains. At least 107 people were killed, 800 others wounded.

Convicted sex offender Joseph Duncan has been charged with three counts of first-degree murder. Prosecutors say Joseph Duncan showed premeditation when he allegedly tied up and bludgeoned to death Brenda Groene, her son and boyfriend. Duncan had been charged with kidnapping Shasta and Dylan Groene, but prosecutors say those charges will be dropped, paving the way for harsher federal kidnapping charges.

Thousands of people in southern Colorado are waiting to hear when they can head back home. Firefighters made headway Tuesday against a 12,000-acre wildfire burning about 150 miles south of Denver. Some 5,000 people have been evacuated since the blaze started a week ago. National Guard helicopters are on the standby after Colorado's governor declared a state of emergency.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk politics now and the firestorm over Karl Rove's role in the leak of a CIA agent's identity. The White House press secretary on Tuesday insisted that President Bush is behind his top adviser.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: Any individual who works here at the White House has the president's confidence. They wouldn't be working here if they didn't have the president's confidence. (END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the political fallout over Karl Rove. In Washington, Democratic consultant Victor Kamber joins us, and Cliff May. He's the former RNC communications director. He's now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

Gentlemen, as always, nice to see you.

Let's get right to it. Cliff, we'll start with you. Back in 2003, it was the president who suggested he take strong action if, in fact, anybody leaked this classified information. Let's listen to what the president said back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it. And we'll take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: The investigation's a good thing. So, Cliff, why isn't Karl Rove being fired?

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Because we don't know that Karl Rove did what we're talking about, that Karl Rove leaked classified information.

Keep in mind, Judy Miller of "The New York Times" is sitting in jail right now because she won't reveal her source. Look, there are two possibilities. One is what you suggest, Karl Rove purposefully exposed a secret agent. If that's the case, he not only should be indicted, he will be indicted. There's a very tough prosecutor on this case. The other possibility is that Karl Rove was asked a question by a journalist and answered truthfully. Now in Washington, that's an unusual thing to do, but it's not a hanging offense.

S. O'BRIEN: So you're saying he didn't name her, as in her actual name, Valerie?

MAY: No, I'm not saying that. He said, look, Joe Wilson had claimed that Cheney's office had sent him to Niger. Cheney's office denied that. Evidently, Matt Cooper of "Time" magazine said, so who did send him? Rove said, apparently, his wife sent him. She works at CIA.

S. O'BRIEN: It would be illegal for me to name her. because I would be outing a CIA agent, but his wife, you do the math.

MAY: If I tell you that Porter Goss works at the CIA, I will not be arrested when I leave CNN studios, because Porter Goss is not a covert agent. Valerie Plame, at this point,was not a covert agent apparently. She had been in the past. I don't think that Karl Rove knew that she had once been a covert agent, and I'm not sure she was a covert agent at this time. I think we pretty much know she was working at Langley. We know she was working as an analyst on proliferation issues, and we also know that she did, in fact, get her husband the job of going to Niger for the CIA.

S. O'BRIEN: Something she actually denies. .

MAY: But the Senate select committee says that's what happened, and they have memos to prove it.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk to Vic for a moment. Sounds to me, to some degree, there's a lot -- there's a ton of hair splitting going on here.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Well, I differ with Cliff on two things. One, the real issue to me is, did Karl Rove lie to the president a year ago? I think if he went to the boss and said, boss, listen,I said some things, I didn't leak any government information, true information, but I said some things, we wouldn't have had the statement from the president out there about firing anybody; we wouldn't have the foot in the sand, the firm ground of here's where I stand.

If you listen to the White House spokespeople this week, every one of them has said, to the person, we have not asked Karl Rove directly what he's done; we just believe in him because he wouldn't be here if he's done something wrong. He did name, not by name, he said it was Wilson's wife. He goes to the same church as Wilson, so he knows who the woman is. I mean, they know each other to see. Hard for me to believe he didn't know whether she was an operative or not, but I'm even putting that aside for the moment because, like Cliff, if it's true that she wasn't -- that he knew she was an operative, he's going to be indicted.

But I think the bigger question is really, we have a man sitting there, who the president counts on, who this administration counts on, who in my judgment probably lied to the president of the United States a year ago, and he should go.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's play a little bit of an interchange between David Gregory, an NBC correspondent, and Scott McClellan, kind of in the firing lines. It's interesting. Let's hear it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GREGORY, NBC CORRESPONDENT: You sit at that podium and said that Karl Rove was not involved. And now we find out that he spoke about Joseph Wilson's wife. So don't you owe the American public a fuller explanation? Was he involved or was he not? Because contrary to what you told the American people, he did indeed talk about his wife, didn't he?

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: David, there will be a time to talk about this, but now is not the time to talk about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) S. O'BRIEN: OK, when are they going to talk about it? When will we know?

KAMBER: That's the point.

MAY: Let me explain, McClellan can't go to Karl Rove and say, tell me everything you talked to -- you said to the grand jury, and Karl Rove testified three times before the grand jury. So all this is a matter of public record, or will be when the grand jury finishes its deliberations. Karl Rove can't be saying to a press secretary, here's what I've also told Fitzgerald, the prosecutor. These are sensitive negotiations and the prosecutor has specifically said, I don't want people speaking about it. So to gang up on McClellan is not fair.

The question is this: Did Karl Rove, or did he not, knowingly expose a secret agent? Again, I don't think he did. I don't know why he would. But if he did, he'll be prosecuted.

KAMBER: Except for...

MAY: The other possibility is that he told -- the other possibility is that he told the truth about a false claim that was being made. And, again, telling the truth to a reporter on background should not be a firing or hanging offense.

S. O'BRIEN: And you got -- we're out of time. So I'm sure -- I am positive we're going to be discussing this more and probably in the near future. Victor Kamber, Cliff May.

KAMBER: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: As always, gentlemen, nice to talk to you.

MAY: Thank you. Thanks, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get back out to Miles O'Brien, who's at the Kennedy Space Center this morning. Hey, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Soledad. More than two areas now since the Shuttle Columbia disaster. Shuttle Discovery now ready for lift- off, inside eight hours now.

Astronaut Eileen Collins is the commander of Discovery, her second time as commander. Summer of '99, she became the first woman to hold that title. What's it like for the family? With us now is her husband Pat Youngs, who's got to have a few butterflies this morning. Good to have you with us, Pat.

You've had a couple conversations with Eileen, last night, this morning. Give us -- just give us the flavor of the conversations. What's it like between husband and wife at a time like this?

PAT YOUNGS, HUSBAND OF DISCOVERY CMDR: Well, Eileen's getting a few butterflies, naturally. Got to spend an hour with her yesterday evening. But she's supremely confident in the shuttle, and that it's ready to go, their crew is as well. And this morning she went for a little run at 6:00 a.m., and she said that as she was working her way back, a raccoon popped out of a sewer and was heading towards headquarters building. Might have been late for a meeting or something, she mentioned. So she's in good spirits.

M. O'BRIEN: Raccoons have a (INAUDIBLE). Let's -- you know, I was just talking to Doug Brown, Dave Brown's brother, and he was talking about a very poignant conversation that he had with his brother before he left on Columbia. And, you know, and he said, essentially, if I don't come back, Doug, I want to make sure you tell the world that I feel this is important and that you don't pull your punches on that. That the world should know that I feel that way. Have you ever had a conversation like that with Eileen? That's got to be a tough one if you've had it.

YOUNGS: Well, yes, through the years, personally -- Eileen, 15 years as an astronaut. So we've had this scenario three other times. And we've talked about it. We're both very familiar and comfortable with the fact that there's risk, but, you know, this is important and this is what she wants to do.

M. O'BRIEN: Nine-year-old and a 4-year-old, and they're going to be with you. They're with their Grandma now. And you're going to be on top of that launch control center. And that is an incredibly emotional, difficult time. What are you going to say to them? How are you going to comfort them through the whole process here?

YOUNGS: Well, as you know, being right here, extremely loud once the shuttle does launch. And for little ones, you know, you have to be ready for that. But it will be really exciting. Both kids are looking forward to it, and it will be something that they'll remember forever.

M. O'BRIEN: And as far as the 9-year-old, who would understand a little more about the whole history here...

YOUNGS: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Has she asked any pointed questions of you or Eileen about the risks?

YOUNGS: Absolutely. I mean, she's very bright, and just last night, we talked a little bit. But we've -- both Eileen and I have reassured her that the shuttle's, you know, as safe as it can be, but there is risk involved. And she knows that's what her mom does, just like her dad flies airplanes, and she's doing well.

M. O'BRIEN: Would she prefer it, though, if she didn't go?

YOUNGS: Probably, but not necessarily just because she's flying the shuttle, but because she's already been gone seven days, and it's another 12 she's stuck with her dad, so...

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Pat Youngs, we wish you well today. And we wish a nice safe launch and mission for Commander Eileen Collins, your wife. Appreciate it. All right, Pat Youngs, joining us here from the Cape. And he will be on top of that launch control center in a little while with his kids. And, boy, that will be quite a sight, and that would be something to share with your children, wouldn't it, Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Gosh, it sure would be. But, you know, as you pointed out, a lot of trepidation for those family members, one has to imagine.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Butterflies, to say the least.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Much more to come on "AMERICAN MORNING." Some important news for women who are using hormone therapy treatments or thinking about it.

Also ahead, a look at the housing market. It's hot this year. But what are the predictions for 2006? We are "Minding Your Business," ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A new study says women who suddenly stop taking hormone replacement therapy because of health risks are seeing menopausal symptoms return. Dr. Pamela Peeke is with the University of Maryland School of Medicine. She's also the author of "Body for Life for Women." She's joining us to talk about this study.

I guess it's sort of not surprising to me -- I'm not a doctor -- but it seems like you stop taking HRT, you're going to get your symptoms back. What's the good news, if there's any, out of this study?

DR. PAMELA PEEKE, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: The great news was nobody died. It was OK. You came off the hormonal replacement therapy, and really, quite frankly, most women did just fine, and the ones who didn't were in the grand minority. And there was no surprise there at all. Many of those women had already had issues to start with. They already had the hot flashes that were very difficult before they started the therapy, et cetera. But quite frankly, everyone did OK.

S. O'BRIEN: You know what I thought was the strangest thing out of this study, was the placebo effect.

PEEKE: Yes!

S. O'BRIEN: There were some women who were taking the placebos. They weren't going HRT, anyway, and when they went off the placebo...

PEEKE: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: ... which was nothing anyway, they also had their symptoms come back.

PEEKE: Well, this...

S. O'BRIEN: Does that mean there's this huge emotional/mental component to this?

PEEKE: Well, no, actually. There's actually something even bigger than this. And that is what we thought were the symptoms of menopause are the symptoms of aging. Many of these women -- actually, it was 41 percent of the women who were on placebo actually had symptoms come back. But a lot of it was joint stiffness, aching, back and forth. News flash, you're getting older.

S. O'BRIEN: You're old.

PEEKE: And that's OK, because now we can kind of tease that apart. Turns out these vasomotor symptoms -- you know, the hot flashes and rest of it, and the vaginal dryness -- are the two things that the National Institutes of Health say truly are menopausally related. The rest of it, girlfriends, get up, get active, get a healthy lifestyle.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, let's get right to your tips. I'll kind of run through them, because some of them, I think, are pretty straightforward. You say you got to exercise your mind. You got to exercise. You got to eat less and eat better. Give soy a chance. Why soy?

PEEKE: Well, you know, soy is a great, wonderful phytoestrogen. It's a little plant estrogen. So it kind of helps give that extra boost for those women who want to kind of curb out some of those, you know, symptoms. And it works perfectly fine. Great source of calcium and protein as well. And you know, it's everywhere. You can get it in almost any meal, so it's easy. And women can access this.

S. O'BRIEN: Scratch the sugar, spare the starch.

PEEKE: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Are there big links between menopausal problems and sugar and starch?

PEEKE: Well, yes. Well, first of all, you get big.

S. O'BRIEN: So you say, yes, like, come on.

PEEKE: Well, here it comes. You know, most women more from an hourglass to a shot glass. They start getting that filling in around the tummy. Number one, they're eating tons of refined sugar, which not only upsets their appetite and their weight, but also their moods. They got to be careful about that. And the starches -- again, the processed foods, especially in the starches, do exactly the same thing. Women are piling that on.

I was actually surprised to see that women weren't explaining that much, you know, in terms of symptoms about weight. I think it's interesting how they kind of put that aside and said that has nothing to do with menopause. It actually does.

S. O'BRIEN: You had an interesting sort of trick, I would say, or something people can do or purchase to compensate for not having hormone-replacement therapy, especially when it comes to the heavy night sweats that you get.

PEEKE: Well, you know, there's actually a lot of herbals out there. Black cohosh comes in, a whole bunch of different ways you can take it, little pills back and forth. And there are a lot of plant estrogens, vis-a-vis the herbals, that actually work fairly well.

But again, the big message here is, girlfriends, it's lifestyle. And if you really look to see what the women did after they came off hormonal-replacement therapy by the millions a couple years ago, guess what they did? They started exercising. They started eating well. You know, go figure, a study like this had to get them healthy that way.

S. O'BRIEN: Exactly. Dr. Pamela Peeke, nice to see you, as always. Nice to see you in person, too.

PEEKE: Great to see you.

S. O'BRIEN: Some good advice as always.

Still to come this morning, is the U.S. housing market cooling off? We're "Minding Your Business," ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Will the housing market stay hot through the next year? NASA also getting a show of support from a company that stays firmly on the ground. Andy Serwer's "Minding Your Business."

Want to start with the markets?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: I want to talk about the housing market, how hot it is, as you're saying. It's just -- it's so hot -- how hot is it?

S. O'BRIEN: How hot is it?

SERWER: It's so hot, Soledad, right now, that there's actually a move around the country amongst homeowners to put up "not for sale" signs in their yards. That's right. People in Oregon, and New York are tired of people knocking on their door, saying, hey, is this place for sale? So people are starting to put signs up in their yard saying, don't even ring the doorbell. Don't send me any of those postcards. And you can kind of understand it. It gets to be annoying after a while. Story in "The Wall Street Journal" this morning.

S. O'BRIEN: They can ask a lot more money, though, and then just sell it. But that's me.

SERWER: Yes, that's true. People next door actually complaining about these signs, saying, but our house is for sale. So it's got the whole neighborhood all up in arms.

A new study out this morning from the government, though, showing the housing market, while it's still hot, may be cooling, and it may be cooling next year.

S. O'BRIEN: Haven't we heard this before? It's going to burst.

SERWER: It's going to burst. In fact, they've started to raise the levels, the numbers for 2005. Initially, they thought that prices would drop this year. Now they've had to say, well, in fact, they are going to go up again this year. But now they're saying they're going to drop for '06 and '07. Last year, prices up 11 percent. The biggest jump since 1979. The government also saying 55 metropolitan areas are considered boom markets. Well, no kidding. That means they're up 30 percent or more over the past three years, which is really remarkable.

S. O'BRIEN: We'll revisit this again one time, but I don't think 2006 is going to be down.

SERWER: It might not be.

S. O'BRIEN: We've heard it before.

SERWER: Right. And you heard it from Soledad here this morning. We shall see.

S. O'BRIEN: And I'm putting my apartment on the market. Just kidding.

SERWER: Right, no problem.

Finally, we want to talk about this company KB Home, which is a giant home builder, which has made some of these promotional wrist bands. Wristbands very popular now, and these say Discovery 2005. You can see them up close there, KB Homes. They're glow in the dark.

S. O'BRIEN: Are they really? That's neat.

SERWER: They are. Shall we turn out the lights? No, let's not do that. That would be confusing here. And also and they had Salary Ride, who was the first American woman in space, was a spokesperson for the company down in Houston, and they're trying to -- they're actually...

S. O'BRIEN: They're selling these?

SERWER: No they're giving them away at all 400 KB outlets across the country.

S. O'BRIEN: I like that. I'm taking two of them.

Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: There you go.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's head back out to Miles.

Speaking of space, let's head right back out to Miles.

Good morning again.

M. O'BRIEN: Can you save me one of those?

S. O'BRIEN: I'll save you two. I'm taking Andy's.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. And thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: And our coverage of the launch of the Space Shuttle Discovery will continue in just a little bit. Let's take a look out at the launch pad. Weather is really good so far, but there's a lot of factors to consider. I mean, we were here one day a few years ago. It was a beautiful sunny day, and there was a chiraco (ph) in Morocco, and we were scrubbed as a result of that. So you know, folks, this is rocket science after all.

Take a look at the countdown clock. We're now inside another hold. It's says T minus three hours and holding, but basically we're talking about seven hours to launch.

Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com