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American Morning

Discovery Delay; Iraq Al Qaeda Arrests; High Court's Future

Aired July 14, 2005 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Overnight developments from Los Angeles. Protesters take to the streets after learning a 19-month-old girl was killed by police fire during a dangerous hostage crisis.
Also, in southern California, a dramatic scene as desperate residents use garden hoses to fight off an advancing fire.

Well, in the Caribbean, another hurricane has formed. Emily is a Category 1, but expected to get much bigger.

And Hollywood winners and losers. The 57th Emmy Award nominations announced just moments ago on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Miles O'Brien at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida and Soledad O'Brien in New York.

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. It's 9:00 here in New York.

Good morning, Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. I'm Miles O'Brien at the Kennedy Space Center.

Eileen Collins and her space shuttle crew awakened this morning on the planet Earth. They had hoped to be floating around in space. And meanwhile, engineering teams all over the place are trying to figure out what went wrong, why they had to scrub that countdown yesterday. We'll keep you posted -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Thanks.

Well, earlier today, we saw two minutes of silence in London and around England, where people really paid their respects to those who lost their lives and were injured in the bombings there. Coming up this morning, we're going to tell you about some overnight developments in the investigation now.

But first, let's get right to Fredricka Whitfield. She's got a look at some of the other stories that are making headlines this morning.

Fred, good morning again.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning again, Soledad.

Tensions growing in Los Angeles. Residents and police faced off overnight after word that a police bullet killed a toddler during a standoff with police last week. Police say the 19-month-old had been used as a shield by her armed father. The LAPD chief says the officers appear to have acted properly but stresses that a full investigation is ongoing.

A top judge in Iraq says Saddam Hussein could go on trial as early as next month. The former Iraqi leader is expected to face charges for his alleged role in a massacre almost a quarter of a century ago. If convicted, he could face the death penalty.

Some major rulings expected today in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway. Two suspects released in Aruba last week could go back to jail. A panel of judges is set to rule on a request to re-arrest the Kalpoe brothers. The same judges are also weighing whether to release Joran Van Der Sloot. The Dutch team is appealing is continued detention.

And Emmy nominations announced just a short time ago. Two HBO movies got the most nominations, but "Desperate Housewives" and "Will and Grace" among the leaders of the pack, with 15 nominations a piece, including best comedy series. The winners will be announced September 18, but we'll go over who has the best shot at the gold in our special Emmy "90-Second Pop" coming up -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Soledad.

NASA's working to get the Discovery launch back on track. Saturday is the earliest they can blast off. That seems like a very optimistic date right now. And the mission could be delayed much longer, but we're waiting to hear the outcome of all these engineering meetings.

Lori Garver is a former NASA associate administrator. She's now an aerospace consultant. She joins us from Washington. She's got the outsider's--insider's view on all of this.

Lori, good to have you back with us today. What's your take? I know you're not, you know, a deep in the intricacies technical person, but what's your take on the problem and how big a delay it might mean?

LORI GARVER, FMR. NASA ASSOC. ADMINISTRATOR: I agree that Saturday is an optimistic scenario. I think NASA's been fairly open about that. They are going to get to the bottom of it before they try to fly again.

We have had glitches over time. You heard the NASA administrator yesterday, Mike Griffin, say he had a flight, it took 14 different attempts. This isn't exactly like that, because we don't know the answer to it. Those are the things NASA cannot stand, that they like getting to the bottom of it.

They will, but this one could easily take longer than Saturday. I think they're talking about Monday even already, and certainly hoping to make the July 31st window. In the big scheme of things, I think we're fine, and a couple months delay even is not going to set back the program. M. O'BRIEN: An unexplained anomaly, I believe, is the technical term. And that's what it was back in April, when with another tank Discovery went through a test where they filled it up with rocket fuel. The same sort of scenario happened. They ended up putting a new tank on Discovery.

There were some other reasons for that, but didn't test it again. Why not?

GARVER: Well, I think they really felt there would not be another problem, because they had changed every single piece of the hardware associated with the sensor, you know, the boxes, wires, and, as you said, ultimately the tank. So they did not see a need.

NASA has to make these decisions every day. It's a complicated machine, as you've been talking about. Technologically, probably the most advanced machine ever built in the history of the world.

So they do have to make those calls. Obviously, I think at this point they would have rethought that.

They did catch it, though. The system worked. That's exactly what's supposed to happen. They knew they would run it again before launch.

M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting, though. You say it's the most advanced vehicle, and that's true. But it is, at the same time, antiquated. And there's a lot of talk these days, of course, about how the shuttle is head for retirement fairly quickly.

Does anything you've seen here so far make you think NASA should speed up that timetable in any way?

GARVER: Well, I guess I've been in the school that we are on the right track with the shuttle retirement in 2010, anyway. I think this is just one of the many things that we recognize. It's a complicated vehicle.

NASA is now looking at doing things more simply. A replacement shuttle, frankly, wouldn't have all the capability of the existing space shuttle. It wouldn't be as large, it wouldn't carry seven people.

We were trying to do a lot of things with the space shuttle back in the 1970s. We recognize it's worked brilliantly, but we also recognize its failures. It's been very expensive, obviously a very risky vehicle, and very temperamental.

M. O'BRIEN: And it's interesting you say that, because it did try to be all things to all people. Let me show you one of the concepts for the next generation of vehicles. And it actually takes parts from the space shuttle concept and sort of splits it up.

There you see the shuttle, of course, and this comes from ATK, the people that make the solid rocket boosters. This would be an unmanned version which would put up to 200,000 pounds of cargo into orbit without people onboard. Solid rocket boosters in a modified external fuel tank.

And then what they would do is put the people on one of the solid rocket boosters, an Apollo-like capsule on top, and really crucially here, and the astronaut ejection system. An ability to abort and get the crew away from the rocket, which the shuttle does not have.

Now, this is one idea to sort of get a new vehicle going quickly. One of the concepts going around. Do you think this idea is a valid one?

GARVER: Oh, I absolutely do. I think that these decisions are going to be made in the next couple of months, and I think what you're looking at and showing us there is the leading concept.

The NASA administrator, Mike Griffin, has been very clear. There are parts of the shuttle that work wonderfully. We have a very sophisticated machine, and we don't want to throw that away.

Now, if you take off the orbiter, you lose 80 percent of the weight of the vehicle. So you could lift 100 metric tons and potentially 150 metric tons to go to Mars in the future.

If, as you say, you build a capsule for the crew, back as we did in Apollo, and, by the way, as the Russians do, they have much more reliability for returning. Of course you're going to land in the water with parachutes.

I think we've gone in the direction now of the space shuttle with wings, and we may go back to capsules. Keep in mind that's really -- on the other end of the scale, as Burt Rutan and SpaceshipOne and the private sector people who are looking at launching more people in space using smaller vehicles with wings. Ultimately, I think the key is we're going to separate the crew from the cargo, and that was one of the mistakes made on the shuttle.

M. O'BRIEN: Lori Garver, thanks for your insights. It's interesting how it's kind of back to the future, the capsule back in again.

GARVER: Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: Appreciate your time today out in Washington -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Thanks.

Well, this morning, the Pentagon announced the capture of two men believed to be top al Qaeda leaders in Iraq. It brings us right to Barbara Starr. She's live at the Pentagon for us this morning.

Barbara, good morning. Who are these guys?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

More details coming out about the arrest of these two men over the weekend in Iraq, both said to be members of al Qaeda in Iraq. Both said to be key associates of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Now, on Saturday, the first arrest, the man's name is Abu Seba. This man, Abu Seba, was arrested in Ramadi by coalition forces. He is said to be a key lieutenant. But very critically, very important, Abu Seba is said to be involved in the murder, the recent murder of the Egyptian envoy, Mr. Ihab al-Sherif, in Iraq, and also the attacks on Bahraini and Pakistani diplomats in Iraq.

This was all part of an effort, it is said, to discourage Arab countries from supporting Iraq. Abu Seba said to be involved in that.

The next arrest took place on Sunday. This was a man named Abu Abdul Aziz. He is said to be the so-called emir of Baghdad, the leader of Zarqawi's terrorist operations in Baghdad, said to be a key lieutenant of Zarqawi.

Both men are said to be cooperating, and U.S. officials say in the raids that got both of these men, as well as other recent raids, they have captured additional intelligence, equipment, documents that are leading them to still the possibility of more arrests -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with an update. Barbara, thanks.

We're still waiting for word on the condition of Chief Justice William Rehnquist. He entered a Virginia hospital on Wednesday complaining of a fever. Many people in Washington were already speculating whether the chief justice would retire soon.

Let's go to Joe Johns. He's live at the Supreme Court this morning.

Joe, good morning. What's the reaction there to this latest news?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, frankly, Soledad, first, we're back to reading tea leaves on the health of Chief Justice Rehnquist. There's some indication, at least from the things that we're seeing, that he might be released form that hospital in Arlington, Virginia, just across the river from here.

There are some security vehicles and a covered patient exit at the hospital. Now some indication he might be leaving.

The court not officially commenting on that. But we are getting hints, of course, that if he is released from the hospital today, in all likelihood, he'll work from home.

Of course, as you said, the chief justice was admitted to the hospital, spent last night at the hospital complaining of a fever. Not clear how severe that is. Of course, he is, we're told, suffering from thyroid cancer. He has a breathing tube inserted which might have affected all of this. He was admitted, of course, we're told, for observation and apparently testing.

Now, people on Capitol Hill and at the White House are being very cautious. You asked for reaction. Really the only reaction we've gotten was a one-sentence statement from the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, who essentially said, "We wish the chief justice speedy health." That's been about it.

Back to you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. And of course everybody else says the same thing, we hope that he recovers, and quickly. Thanks, Joe.

Turning to southern California now, firefighters say they have nearly contained a dangerous wildfire there. But it sure didn't look that way on Wednesday.

Take a look at this. This huge blaze came just a few feet away -- if they widen out the shot you'll see it a little -- there it is -- from the upscale community of Rancho Palos Verdes. The blaze burned about a hundred acres there, but in spite of getting so close to these homes, it actually never damaged the homes.

That brings us right to the weather and Chad Myers with the very latest on that.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: A couple of heart-wrenching stories to share with you ahead this morning. A 15-year-old boy who is killed in a fight over his iPod. This morning we hear from his parents as they try to come to grips with this senseless crime.

And then in Los Angeles, police now say it was an officer's bullet that killed a 19-month-old toddler who was being held hostage by her own father. But did police give up on negotiating too soon?

A look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The wildly popular iPod helped computer -- Apple Computers, rather -- post a huge earnings record this week. Apple selling more than $1 billion worth of iPods in the last quarter alone. But just as the iPod's in high demand for consumers, the same apparently true for criminals. And in one tragic case, the crime was murder.

Kelly Wallace has got more this morning.

Good morning.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. And a real tragedy here. It may be the first known murder for one of these.

And I wanted to bring in an iPod because I'm not sure everybody knows what it look likes.

S. O'BRIEN: It's really the tell-tale earpiece that kind of...

WALLACE: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: ... tips criminals off that you have one.

WALLACE: Exactly, which the cool folks downstairs told me they're called ear buds, which I didn't know.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh.

WALLACE: But exactly. And police say it was a robbery of one of these that left a teenage boy dead. And now the boy's parents, in their grief, are trying to do what they can to make sure this does not happen again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): Sharon and Errol Rose of Brooklyn say they've been robbed of what they cherished most in this world, their 15-year-old son Christopher, the youngest of four, killed in a fight over an iPod.

SHARON ROSE, VICTIM'S MOTHER: It's a feeling of intense loss as if you saved up a prize, you saved up something precious to you, and then somebody snuck in while your back was turned and just stole it all away.

WALLACE: They saved up for a house in Pennsylvania where Christopher and Errol lived during the week. Errol commuting more than four hours a day to his New York City job so Christopher could get away from the tough city streets. But those same streets bringing this family's dream to an end.

ERROL ROSE, VICTIM'S FATHER: I feel like half of my life is gone. I was preparing him for the life that he's going to live, turn his own key in his door. I don't see it happening anymore.

WALLACE: It was July 4th weekend, Christopher and three friends in Brooklyn for a visit, just about to head back to Pennsylvania, when police say a group of teens surrounded them, demanding the friend's iPod, which Christopher was holding. There was a fight. Christopher stabbed and killed.

(on camera): Do you blame the iPod in anyway for this? Do you think, oh, my god, if Chris and his friends didn't have an iPod maybe this horrible, horrible thing wouldn't have happened?

S. ROSE: I can't say I blame iPod. They can make it. I mean -- but it's how we use it, that's the problem. If we go around -- you know, if people start lusting after it and then their heart becomes evil, then it's us, it's not the thing.

E. ROSE: No, I wouldn't blame iPod for that. I blame the kids. These kids got to learn respect for human lives and not for material things, which is no good.

WALLACE (voice-over): The Roses say they can't believe the response, the letters from family and friends, and a phone call they never expected.

E. ROSE: I didn't even know who he was and what he was all about. I got this call, and he called me, and he sounds very sincere.

WALLACE: The caller, Steve Jobs, chief executive of Apple Computer, the company which makes the iPod. Errol says he was touched.

E. ROSE: He said, "You know, if there's anything I can do for you, please don't be bashful. You know, you can call me." But in my grief I don't know what I want. You know, because money's not the issue or anything else. It's just Christopher.

S. ROSE: Just Christopher.

WALLACE: And now this family which worked so hard to make sure Christopher had a good life says it will work even harder to make sure his life did not end in vain.

S. ROSE: I would like to see something done in his name, and I can see it happening because people considered him to be such a decent person.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And Sharon and Errol Rose are already trying to do something. They have started a campaign, a movement, really, in Christopher's name to try to prevent youth violence.

Meantime, a 16-year-old Brooklyn boy has been charged with second-degree murder for the killing of Christopher. Police sources tell us, Soledad, they think they have their man. The investigation, though, continuing. They are looking for two or three more accomplices.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, that is such a sad story. That poor family.

WALLACE: It really is. They're amazing, though. Look at their strength, even in their grief, that they are really trying to get the word out of what steps parents and kids can take to try and prevent this from happening.

S. O'BRIEN: What are you talking about tomorrow?

WALLACE: Tomorrow we wanted to take a look and see with this case also there has been a bit of an increase in thefts of iPods on subways, on the streets. Wanted to see if that's making people a little nervous, iPod owners.

So we take a look at that. And also tips. I don't have one of these, but if you have one, tips to be safe.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Kelly, thanks.

WALLACE: Sure.

S. O'BRIEN: A short break. And we are back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Welcome back. Live pictures now, launch pad 39B. And beneath that gray structure, that steel erector set-like structure is the Space Shuttle Discovery.

That's the rotating service structure, they call it. It's all buttoned up, safe and sound inside there. And the fuel tank is just about empty now. They're doing a process called inerting it, which means taking the volatile gases out and putting safe gases in.

Meanwhile, mission control, which is just across the parking lot from us -- excuse me, launch control, kind of a quiet place this morning. And most of the people who would be sitting at consoles there during the countdown of the launch huddled in meetings this morning. At least 11 of them under way, I'm told, technical meetings, to figure out what happened at about 1:30 in the afternoon yesterday in the midst of that countdown during a test which led to a broken sensor. Maybe a broken sensor, maybe something else is wrong.

Jim Reilly is an astronaut, two-time flyer, would like to fly again, three-time space walker. He's been with us trying to explain NASA speak, which is a big task on its own.

And we appreciate that, Jim.

The fact that they have drained the fuel tank, and we're talking about a sensor, which is, you know, a fuel-out sensor essentially, gave it an opportunity to do another test, didn't they? What did they find out?

JIM REILLY, ASTRONAUT: Well, right now, they got the indications back when they drained the tank last night that the sensor was indeed -- at least it was operating as they expected initially. They're still looking at results this morning, and they started a meeting about 8:00 this morning to try to get some idea of what the fault could possibly be and what they're seeing, and where would it be, and what has to be replaced.

M. O'BRIEN: So operating initially, meaning it was stuck, indicating full. It went empty and still said it's fuel? Is that...

REILLY: Well, from what I understand, the sensor operated as they expected, which I would expect would be that it indicated full on sensor number two.

M. O'BRIEN: Got you.

REILLY: And then that was what they were expecting. But they are -- right now, they're looking at the entire system end to end to see if they can determine whether it's actually the sensor that's at fault or whether it's something that's in between the orbiter and the tank itself.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. And that leads us to something that people might not get immediately. It took me a little while to figure this out.

But the truth is, if the problem is inside the orbiter itself, the spacecraft -- it's a box which is attached to the sensor -- that actually might be good news, right? Explain that.

REILLY: Depending on where it is. If it's something as simple as some cabling, then they might be able to replace that pretty quick and have -- have an early launch date. If it turns out to be something inside the tank, that might be something where you have to make the decision to roll back, and then it's a much longer delay.

That, of course, is what they're trying to fill right now in a matrix and basically look at all of the symptoms that they've got, what are the potential faults, and then what are the potential repairs. And then out of the bottom of that will fall, you know, the solution for a launch date.

M. O'BRIEN: And the difficult part here, of course, is it's not a problem that is well-understood. And the root of it is the first thing you've got to do, then you have to figure out access to the problem. And then you have to figure out what that means for the launch and the potential delays.

And we should remind people that as of July 31, August 1, the end of this month, kind of turn into a pumpkin here for a little while, because they want to launch by day. You can only launch at certain times each day to get to the space station. And that could slip it into September, which is the next opportunity to do that, right?

Do you think that's likely now?

REILLY: Don't know. Right now I really can't say, because as I said, they're in the meetings right now, and we've got people literally all over the country that are looking at this problem, trying to sort it out.

And, you know, if it's something as simple as a connector, they might be able to replace that within a day or two. But if it's something a little bit more complex, and, of course, depending on how complex it is, depends on how long the solution is going to take.

M. O'BRIEN: It is an amazingly complicated vehicle.

REILLY: It is.

M. O'BRIEN: We're talking about a million parts. And it's difficult for even the best and the brightest to understand every last thing about it, isn't it?

REILLY: That's true. And, you know, it's -- as a friend of mine said the other day, you know, it's like having your car sitting in a garage for two-and-a-half years and you come home and start it and you hope everything's working. And, of course, when you say you've got a million different parts, there's a million different things that can be plaguing you. So...

M. O'BRIEN: All right. A million different parts. It's all got to be perfect. Jim Reilly, thanks for your time.

REILLY: Thanks very much.

M. O'BRIEN: Appreciate you dropping by.

We'll be back with more AMERICAN MORNING in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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