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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

Interview With Former President Bill Clinton

Aired July 15, 2005 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am the foreign minister.

BILL CLINTON, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: We don't really have any power, but I feel like my job is what Harry Truman once described the presidency as being. He said being president of the United States was largely a matter of trying to convince people to do what they should have done without your asking them in the first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of former presidents from around the world reappear at the United Nations and people barely take note. They once walked in the door with huge amounts of security and pomp and now they'd be grateful if you'd talk to them about their pet project.

Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth.

One former president has not lost his ability to command attention. Bill Clinton returned to the United Nations this week for a lessons learned, where are we going now tsunami update, and the whole room lit up. Then he stopped by our U.N. office, where we had our hot TV lights already waiting for him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Mr. President, welcome.

Why did you say to the delegates today that we are at the most dangerous point in the tsunami recovery reconstruction drive?

CLINTON: Because a magnificent job was done in the immediate aftermath. There was no widespread starvation, no outbreak of disease. People were immediately put into some sort of housing. There was no kind of squabbling between the governments and the donors and the NGOs. Everybody was working together. Magnificent performance by the American military and other militaries.

Now we're in a period where you've still got a lot of people living in tents and they want to be in better temporary housing. Everybody really wants to be in a permanent home and you can't possibly build that many that quickly. We've got a period where everyone wants to be back at work and we haven't been able to reconstruct all the livelihoods.

And if this had happened to America, which has far more resources, we wouldn't have been able to do it either. I think they're doing pretty well. But it is dangerous because it is frustrating and it is complex. We know that, for example, the Indonesians are ready to build the houses back and they have the commitments, the financial commitments to do it. But they can't harvest are the timber from within Indonesia without tearing down valuable rainforest that would not be sustainable. So we have the find the lumber from somewhere else.

In Sri Lanka, finally there is a reconciliation and a determination that the long conflicting Hindu Tamils will work with the majority Senegalese Buddhists and the minority Muslims to rebuild the country, but they're still not resolved on how far back from the water they have to build.

So there are these problems still and it's a dangerous, difficult time. But I think we'll work through it.

ROTH: So what about the complaints of aid not starting to be put to work really? There is a lot of money, you mentioned --

CLINTON : Between $2 billion and $3 billion still in the banks of the NGOs. I say there was the last time I went there $3 billion, but a lot of contracts have been let since then, so I presume it's considerably lower.

Look, it's just going to take time to work through this, and that's one of the things that I try to do. My view is if we have good coordinating mechanisms within the country and then here at the United Nations, with the NGOs, the international financial institutes, the major donor countries, that we'll just work through this stuff. And there is no silver bullet. Each issue has to by taken on its own.

And we also have worked very hard to get a common reporting so that you can get on the Internet, find everybody's plan and how much every little piece of it cost, when it's supposed to be done and whether it's funded or not.

ROTH: So can you assure Americans that the millions pledged will be going to where they hope it's going?

CLINTON: I can assure Americans that the hundreds of millions, maybe over a billion dollars, they have pledged, that we're making every effort to account for it. So are the countries involved. That it won't be spent until it can be effectively spent. But that it will be spent.

That's another thing that's very frustrating to a lot of the NGOs. They know that -- let's just take the Red Cross, that got the lion's share of the money. They know that if they spend this money well and wisely, maybe next year we can raise money to eradicate malaria or tuberculosis. If they spend it and it's wasted, people won't give again. If they don't spend it because they're afraid it will be wasted. People will be frustrated. I gave and they didn't spend it.

So we're all working on this, and we may not be perfect, but we're going to do better at it than anybody has done before us.

ROTH: You've made two trips to the region. They say the president of the United States is in a cocoon in the White House, though you certainly have visited the sites of tragedies. Can you explain the emotional connection for you when you meet people who have lost their families, their lives, in the middle of nowhere, thousands of miles away?

CLINTON: Well, you know, first of all, I think it's just overwhelming that people just find the courage to go on. You know, they're living along with their lives. Most every day is just like the day before. And then, all of the sudden, nature intervenes and their whole lives are changed then. Sometimes immeasurably scarred, as you have heard me say many times when I was in the Indonesian displaced persons camp, I was shown through by the person designated to be the leader of the camp and this wife, who have now one son. And before the tsunami, they had ten children. I mean, you just see that over and over again.

I talked to a man, and I -- the first time I went, his boat was buried on the sand, and he said he was digging his boat out because he had lost his wife and all of his children and that boat under the sand was all he had left of his old life.

When you see that and you see the courage of these people, you know, we have to try to make this work. You know, all the problems -- and it's really good to be reminded. I wish -- when everyone gets frustrated, I would send them to a displaced persons camp and let them talk to people, because once you get rooted in the human reality of this again, you get all your energy back. You want to go over and you become absolutely convinced that we can do it right.

ROTH: You were the world's most powerful man. You told the U.N. delegates you have no power now when trying this effort, among your other efforts. What is that like?

CLINTON: Well, it's okay. I mean, I -- what I meant is -- it's true. I have a limited staff of very dedicated, very able people. But our job is largely to be a coordinator. We don't have independent sources of funds. Even when President Bush and I went out and raised a good deal of money and we kept a few million on our own, and we have tried to spend it - - I give him and his staff a lot of credit for this. We tried to spend it in a way that the other donors could see that there are things you can do to have good, quick results.

This is not a job rooted in power. I don't order people around. I try to help people to do what I think they want to do. I think they want to do a good job. I think everybody here wants to succeed. All these countries that have been effected, they want to succeed. All the people that have the money to give, they want to give it. And there is just a lot of detail that you have to work out and gaps you have to close, and that's what I'm tying to help do.

ROTH: What needs to be done right now? You mentioned we're at a high risk point. There are a lot of risks you are worried about?

CLINTON: Well, I think, first of all, we've got to get these early warning systems up. Thailand has put one up. Other countries are working on them. They've agreed on compatible technology, but the world community needs to make sure that they're all financed and put up, and put up quickly, and that they work. Because otherwise we'll never get the tourists back to Sri Lanka -- or to Thailand and the Maldives or get them to Sri Lanka or Indonesia, for that matter, or anyplace else. They're just not going to go back.

And the Maldives cannot recover. And that portion of Thailand that was hit cannot recover unless tourism comes back. So the early warning system is important.

The second thing we have to do is continue to support the peace process. I mean, if there is peace, there can be investment, there can be growth, there can be enormous turnaround. I'm hopeful about Indonesia and I'm very impressed that the president of Sri Lanka, as you know, has made this deal to work with the minority Hindu Tamils and the Muslims. They're all going to work together. That's good.

Then we need to have everyone support our common reporting system so that you or anybody that works for your network or any other press outlet anywhere in the world should be able to get on the Internet and see what's being done in everyone of these countries by project and how much it costs and who got it and who's funding it and when is it going to be finished.

ROTH: It's kind of a shadow conference you've got. It's almost a rival conference, and it's at the same time. You're going to have some of the same guests. I know you don't want speeches. What is your goal?

CLINTON: Well, first of all, I don't think it's a rival either to the United Nations or to Davos, the big world economic forum. It's smaller and shorter. We're going to meet for two days to discuss four topics: the alleviation of poverty, the development of honest and transparent government, climate change and religious and racial and ethnic reconciliation. And what private people can do on all these things.

And the reason that I'm doing it is -- partly I got the idea with my involvement with my AIDS project, with the tsunami and with listening to people around the world. Governments cannot solve all the problems, so when all these people come here for the United Nations, I want them to also be able to come to a private forum, where they can challenge the participants to take action in one of these four areas. And then for two days I'm going to give people a chance to learn as much as possible about these four areas. And then at the end, the people who come, I'm going to ask to make a specific commitment to take some action in one of these four areas in the next year.

My goal is to bring between 500 and 1,000 people together at the beginning of the United Nations every year for a decade, talk about discreet problems, get them to make commitments, then report back after a year on who kept their commitments and what the consequences were. I think in ten years we can have a huge impact on the world. I mean, just look at how much the private sector has done on the tsunami relief. Look at how much, like in my AIDS work, I don't take any government money for the work that we do, but in addition to the government funds I get from donors to support buying medicine, we get millions of dollars in funds from private sector people.

So I just think in the future we're going to solve a lot of global problems through private sector contributions.

ROTH: But people sense there is a frustration with the United Nations. I think they're going to be empty seats, people running over to your conference.

CLINTON: Well, maybe, but I know that's not what I'm trying to do. Because I -- first, I support Kofi Annan, and, second, I think his ideas for reform at the United Nations are good. And there will be people coming to my conference, and then they'll turn around and go back. But I don't -- I'm trying to support the United Nations in the same way that all these NGOs are supporting the work of tsunami reconstruction.

ROTH: You mentioned the United Nations. Do you think Kofi Annan and the United Nations have been unfairly blamed on Oil For Food? Your government pushed to set that program up, and nobody seems to be saying, hey, the member countries had something to do with the corruption. I mean, you let Saddam Hussein set up his own buying and selling programs.

CLINTON: I think that the report speaks for itself, and I think there were mistakes made in the United Nations, but I don't think the United Nations should shoulder all the blame. You know, probably what should have been done and would have been easier is at the end of the first Gulf War we probably should have just made the oil refinery at Basra an international protectorate, put it under the United Nations, and then figured out how to spend the cash in a way that guaranteed adequate food and medicine and those things to the Iraqi people.

We got the worst of both worlds there, where people said there was corruption in the Oil For Food Program and then we were accused of -- me personally, I was accused of being responsible for the death of Iraqi children, saying they didn't have enough food and medicine, when in fact under the Oil For Food they got $19 billion a year. In the last year before the first Gulf War, their oil revenue was $16 billion a year. So they were getting more money. And if the kids didn't get the food and medicine it was Saddam's fault, not ours. But that wasn't the image in the world.

So we probably -- the whole thing probably wasn't as well- conceived as it could have been, and there is blame enough to go around. But the point is, you know, the secretary-general has taken onboard the criticism and he's come out with a plan to reform the United Nations and improve it, and I can tell you it works a lot better than it used to a few years ago. It's better than it used to be and it's getting -- and I think he's a good man. So I support what he's trying to do and I'm glad to be able to help.

ROTH: You love this place, don't you?

CLINTON: I do. I believe in it. I think that America is blessed to be the home of the United Nations by a fortunate accident of history when it came into being at the end of World War II and I believe that we will have to find more and more opportunities to cooperate with other countries in the future, because no individual country on its own can solve these big problems. This tsunami relief is a classic example and the U.N. system is working well. It's working well on the ground. It's working well here.

ROTH: You mentioned heart before. As we close here, a lot of efforts, you're traveling all over the world still. How is your health?

CLINTON: My doctor says it's good. I feel great. I think they did a great job with me. And I try to eat and exercise as they tell me I should. I can't say I rest as much as they tell me I should. But, otherwise, I try to do it, and I feel really blessed. I'm having a wonderful time.

ROTH: For DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, thank you very much for being here, Mr. President.

CLINTON: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Doctors are something that Bill Clinton and his U.N. boss, now Kofi Annan, have in common. At least for the next few days. Annan underwent surgery on his left shoulder Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY.-GEN.: I don't want to play doctor. I am in the hands of the doctors. They will have to determine what sort of anesthesia they give me. But I will be operating from home. I hope to be able to go home the same day, if they allow me, and then I will be operating from home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLAN ROCK, CANADIAN AMB. TO U.N.: We are steadfastly opposed to the addition of new permanent members to the Security Council.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Don't blame Canada on this one. That's Canada's U.N. Ambassador Allan Rock, bluntly stating one country's view of this hot button issue called, rather meekly, Security Council reform.

Currently the U.N. Security Council seats 15, 15 countries with five permanent post-World War II veto-carrying countries already in place and all the time. Since before my hair turned gray, U.N. countries on the outside have been trying to get a chair at the Council table on a permanent basis. Approval by the so-called Perm 5 is going to be needed for any Council change.

The United States has indicated it would favor some new perm members, including in particular Japan. But this week the United States made it more clear than ever the current mood in Washington, that there are higher priorities to get the United Nations working more effectively as an organization than to start handing out new invitations to the Security Council.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIRIN TAHI-KHELI, U.S. STATE DET. ADVISOR: Let me be as clear as a possible. The United States does not think any proposal to expand the Security Council, including one based on our own ideas, should be voted upon at this stage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Those comments did not please a group known as the G4, four countries who have banded together to help themselves get some of those new permanent Security Council chairs. India, Germany, Japan and Brazil. Their proposal: 10 new seats to bring the Council up to 25. Permanent seats for themselves, but no veto rights for at least 15 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALDO SARDENBERG, BRAZILIAN AMB. TO U.N.: In order to effectively carry out its functions and powers, the Security Council needs to undergo a total reform, which includes an expansion in the category of permanent members in order to bring it in line with the contemporary world.

KENZO OSHMIA, JAPANESE AMB. TO U.N.: As a peace-loving nation that is fully committed to the ideals and objectives of the organization, Japan firmly believes that it has a significant role to play in the maintenance of international peace and security as well as the advancement of the agenda of security and development by becoming a new permanent member of the Security Council.

NIRUPAM SEN, INDIAN AMB. TO U.N.: To do something decisively, that has been carefully thought out and discussed is considered a sign of immaturity. But this is characteristic of youth impatient for change. To postpone and do nothing is perhaps a sign of maturity, but equally of old age and decrepitude.

GUNTER PLEUGER, GERMAN AMB. TO U.N.: Once our proposal is adopted by more than 2/3 of the whole U.N. membership, the opponents of this resolution will be faced with a question, do one or two permanent members really want to block the development and a change for the better of the whole U.N. organization? Do they want to be seen in worldwide public opinion as those who deny the developing countries representation in the counsel on an equal footing as permanent members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: There are other Security Council reform proposals and there is another group called Uniting For Consensus. Italy, Pakistan, Canada and more, who want to make sure other countries, either regional neighbors or archrivals, don't get permanent seats. They say let's have 10 more seats with nobody getting permanent status.

And down the stretch, the African Union has a proposal of its own, asking for 26 seats in all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDALLAH BAALI, ALGERIAN AMB. TO U.N. (through translator): Our continent would be given two permanent seats with the same prerogatives and the same privileges as the present permanent members, including the right to veto and an additional five non-permanent seats. Africa considers that as long as the present permanent members do have the right of veto, it would be unfair, unreasonable and unacceptable for new permanent members to be deprived of this right indeed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Well, that first group, remember, the G4, they need the African Union to get the required 128 vote minimum in the General Assembly for its resolution. On Monday the assembly will discuss the African Union proposal.

Earlier in the week Algeria's ambassador had indicated it was the African Union draft or else. However, the current leader of the African Union, Nigeria, indicated there was room to negotiate differences when asked about Algeria's defiance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEYEMI ADENUI, NIGERIAN FOREIGN MIN.: Well, he made a mistake. He made a mistake because, one, Algeria, as far as I know, only happens to be on the Security Council now. But Algeria is neither the chair of the African Union, nor is Algeria even the chairman of the African group of the month.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Now, some say raising the number of Security Council members to at least 25 will not increase performance, but the Secretary- General Kofi Annan says getting more countries in that room can make it more representative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNAN: There is a democracy deficit in the U.N. governance that has to be corrected. Of course, it's up to the members to determine whether they will let size trump democracy and representativeness. We are the ones who go around the world lecturing everybody about democracy. I think it's about time we apply it to ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROTH: Memory of a massacre, one artist's view. On the floor at the visitor's entrance at the United Nations, a Bosnian-American woman pours 1,705 cups of coffee which will never be consumed. The number represents the bodies found so far 10 years after the massacre at Srebrenica. Coffee is an integral part of Bosnian life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIDA SENOVIC, ARTIST: It's kind of symbolic and represents what the women and the daughters and the mothers of the men who were killed in this massacre are experiencing. They've been waiting for years and years for their dearest ones to be identified and buried. So this kind of waiting, we are doing this in a symbolic way, waiting for these men to come, even though we know they will never come back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The passing of a man with a very different link to tell you about. A link to the United Nations. Earnest Leiman was a prolific screenwriter. He wrote "West Side Story," "Sabrina," and, among others, the U.N. link here, "North By Northwest," directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

Cary Grant plays an advertising executive who is accused of murder and it all began, as filmed in Los Angeles, in the delegated lounge at the United Nations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Mr. Caplan, what's this all about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forgive me, but who are those people living in your house?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What people? The house is completely closed up? Just the gardener and his wife living on the grounds.

Now, Mr. Caplan, suppose you tell me who you are and what you want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, just, look. Do you know this man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's got a knife. Look out!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me. I had nothing to do with this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't come any nearer. Get back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: I don't know where he went. He just dropped the knife and he left.

Earnest Leiman was nominated for Best Screen Play in Hollywood for "North By Northwest." He passed away at the age of 89.

That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, from the delegates lounge here at the United Nations. I'm Richard Roth. Thanks for watching.

END

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