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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Panel Discusses Natalee Holloway Case
Aired July 15, 2005 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN HOST: Tonight, after 47 long, agonizing days, Natalee Holloway's fate remains a mystery. Yesterday, an Aruban judge ruled another judge's son stays in jail and that two brothers who had been jailed remain free. Now, the latest on how her family's holding up, with her uncle, Paul Reynolds.
Plus, Tim Miller, leading that Texas team in Aruba searching for Natalee. Also with us, CNN's Susan Candiotti with news on the FBI's involvement in the case. Florida Assistant State Attorney Stacey Honowitz. High-profile defense attorney, Michael Cardoza, and forensic expect Dr. Kathy Reichs. They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Hey, hello. And welcome, everybody. I'm Ted Rowlands in for Larry tonight.
It has been 47 long, anguished days since 18-year-old Alabama honor student Natalee Holloway disappeared on the island of Aruba. Her fate is still a mystery.
Earlier this week, a three-judge panel ruled that a 17-year-old Dutch student, Joran Van Der Sloot, must remain behind bars as authorities try to figure out what happened to Natalee. Joran, the son of a judge in training, has been in custody since June 9th.
He and two brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, are the last three people known to have seen Natalee. The Kalpoe brothers were taken into custody on June 9th, as well, then released on grounds of insufficient evidence on July 4th. A prosecution appeal to have them brought back into custody was rejected on Thursday.
Thus far, no one has been formally charged in connection with Natalee's disappearance.
Tim Miller is the director EquuSearch. He is in Aruba tonight.
Tim, something was found on the beach. What was it? And was there any significance to the case?
TIM MILLER, EQUUSEARCH DIRECTOR: Well, you know, I think it was wonderful what was found on the beach today. Again, we did some things that eliminated where Natalee's at.
In all honesty, I wish she would have been in that barrel. We found some things in it. It's terrible to say that we wish we'd find Natalee's body, but I feel as though Natalee is dead somewhere. I don't think she made it off this island. Or if she did, she ended up in the water.
So we're trying to cover all that stuff. And you know, we was a little disappointed at the end of it today. I mean, we put a tremendous amount of work in it and, again, eliminated something but, you know, I...
ROWLANDS: This was a cement barrel? Was it actually in the water? Was it in the sand? What was the situation?
MILLER: Well, I bought a 250-foot rope, and we used up every inch of the rope to tie off the barrel, and then we got many people on the beach to pull the barrel in.
The storm came in, so when we were diving, we really couldn't see. We knew it was a barrel. We knew it had some concrete. We felt as though that possibly, if Natalee was dumped out there, that they don't want Natalee to float. They don't want her to end up in anyplace.
I mean, this has been a big high-profile case, so, you know, we feel as though there is a chance she was dumped in a container in the water. So we're just checking out everything. And we came up empty- handed, but I'm proud of what we did. I just really wish Natalee would have been in there so everybody could have some closure on this.
ROWLANDS: Tuesday on this show you said that you found a spot you think possibly Natalee was at, at one point before she was, quote, "moved." Did anything come of that? And have you really found anything of significance since you've started searching?
MILLER: We've not found anything that really means anything in this case. I'm certainly not convinced that that area we found the other day may not have had something to do with Natalee's disappearance. You know, it's possible that she was buried, and that's what got us excited about that.
We were actually searching on the other side of the island when a guy drove up to us and told us where we needed to go. And he said, "Don't tamper with evidence when you get there."
We went there. We saw that, which certainly appeared as a grave site. Remembering what they said early on, that, you know, they buried her. You know, we felt as though maybe they buried her a couple of days later, somebody hired somebody to go ahead and dig her up, and dispose of her someplace so she'd never be found.
So I'm not totally convinced at this time -- even though there wasn't any evidence found, I'm not totally convinced that that wasn't a possibility that Natalee was there at one time or another.
ROWLANDS: Paul Reynolds is Natalee Holloway's uncle, brother of Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Tonight, he is in Houston, Texas.
You hear about a barrel today, a few days ago, a spot where she may have been. How frustrating is it for the family? Did you think that this nightmare would last, now 47 days?
PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE: We certainly never expected this to go this long. You know, we understand the frustration. We appreciate Tim's efforts out there looking every day, following up on the leads.
That's what we want to happen. That's what's necessary to get to the bottom of this. You know, we're there to stick this out. My sister is there. You know, we want the truth to come out, no matter what happens.
ROWLANDS: Are you confident that the truth will come out here, one way or another, and it's just going to take time? Or are you fearful that you'll never know exactly what happened to Natalee?
REYNOLDS: I feel like we will know. I'm confident that, with the people involved, the determination that we have. And you know, we certainly have hope that we will get the truth and we will find out what happened and where she is.
ROWLANDS: Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent covering this for CNN is in Miami tonight. Susan, I know you have some information about the FBI's frustration, let alone the family's frustration.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, everyone's disappointed, obviously, about the inability to solve this difficult case. And tonight, we're hearing from a source close to the investigation, a law enforcement source, that, as you know, the FBI has been involved in this investigation -- invited by the Aruban authorities to come down and participate, to observe basically.
And we learned that the FBI has asked on more than one occasion to take a close look at what's been gathered so far, for example, statements made, interviews conducted, evidence collected, that kind of thing, as it's been explained to me, to try to give a fresh perspective to things.
Well, I have learned that they have been turned down on more than one occasion to get a look at this information. And for example, I'm also told by sources that the FBI profile of her was there on one occasion.
And a Dutch profiler who has also been provided in on this case has offered advice, for example, on techniques in interviewing this teenager, Joran Van Der Sloot, the son of the judge, the teenage son of the judge, and that advice has not been used, apparently.
Now, we've gone to government spokespeople to ask them about that. We've also talked to a spokesperson for the prosecutor's office to find out -- try to find out why. And according to one source, the local rules don't allow the FBI, who is actively not participating but observing and assisting, to look at this information.
But we also, according to the government spokesperson and the prosecutor's office, they couldn't really give us a clear-cut answer. They said, "They're assisting us. We're thinking about it. We're allowing them to do certain things, and not allowing them to do others."
ROWLANDS: Stacey Honowitz, does that surprise you? And if they're not supposed to share information, that's not going to fly very well in the local community, if the FBI comes in and wants to take this over. Clearly, in a case that's so high-profile, that seems to make sense to me.
STACEY HONOWITZ, Florida ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you something. We were on the show Tuesday night. And Michael Cardoza made a point which is true.
You know, egos, when you're dealing with investigations like this, definitely get in the way. But when you hear Susan's report, and you hear that the FBI is there, ready, willing and able to assist in this investigation, it's preposterous to think that this government would not let them intervene and come in.
It's all a matter of, who wants to solve the crime? And if the investigators -- if the FBI is well-versed in interrogating suspects, as they are, in interviewing techniques and gathering evidence more so than the Aruban police, then definitely they should try to make an exception to this local rule and let them come in and help solve this case. It's ridiculous what's going on over there now.
ROWLANDS: But, Michael Cardoza, if an Aruban were being investigated by the FBI in this country, would the FBI invite the Aruban authorities to join in?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, one would think not, but one would think they'd be a little more gracious about it and bring the FBI -- or the Aruban government in and show them what's going on with the case.
And it appears that's not what's being done here. They're not sharing anything with them. Or if they do, they just give them little tidbits that won't lead to anything.
So, again, I think it's -- the problem I see is, they don't have enough experience to do this. I mean, how many murders do they have in Aruba? I read somewhere it's one in seven years. It may well be more than that.
But I'll tell you what -- you know, being an ex-prosecutor, I know that the bigger metropolitan police departments that deal with, you know, a hundred or so murders a year are better at investigating than small-town investigators that don't get but one every two, three, four years.
Same thing here. I mean, how many do they get in Aruba? It's like let's get this thing solved. Let's put the egos aside. Bring them in. Let them use those techniques if they have to.
Even if they get a confession that couldn't be used in a courtroom, at least there may be some closure to this case. And the Holloways and the Twittys can go away knowing what happened to their daughter. So I'm a defense attorney, but I'm telling you, let's get the answer to this and worry about the prosecution later.
ROWLANDS: All right. We need to take a break. We'll talk about that confession that supposedly was received when we come back.
Before we go to break, LARRY KING LIVE has extended a standing invitation to Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers, as well as their attorneys and family members, to appear on this show. So far, those invitations have not been accepted.
The prosecutor's office on Aruba is not doing media interviews at this time. We'll be right back.
ROWLANDS: Dr. Kathy Reichs is a forensic anthropologist for the office of the chief medical examiner of the state of North Carolina. She is also the author of eight best-selling novels. Her latest is "Cross Bones."
Dr. Reichs, 47 days, is that too long? Are they losing the potential for evidence? Or if they find something significant, is time really not a factor here?
DR. KATHY REICHS, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST And AUTHOR: Well, time is always a factor. And the more time that goes by, the more difficult it becomes. When I'm brought into a case, I deal with the victim. So the longer the time that goes by, the worse shape that victim's going to be in.
And depending on whether they're in a shallow grave, whether they're in the water, whether they're in a barrel, it's going to make a difference. But the longer it is, the more decomposition that takes place.
ROWLANDS: Clearly, Natalee Holloway has not been determined dead by anybody. Tim Miller alluded to the fact that, indeed, a body is something that they are looking for. The family holds out some hope that some way she will turn up alive and well.
That said, what can you determine from, let's say, a body that has decomposed severely, in terms of solving a crime?
REICHS: Yes, well, those are the cases in which the forensic anthropologist is brought in, if you've got to go to the bones. If all of the soft tissue is decomposed or badly compromised in some way, then you're going to have to look at the bones, look at the skull to see what you can for identification purposes, and also for determining cause of death, if possible.
Anything that will leave a mark on the skeleton, such as gun shots, strangulation, bludgeoning, that's going to be very critical in determining what happened in this case if, in fact -- hopefully it's not the case, but, if, in fact, Natalee is dead.
ROWLANDS: Paul Reynolds, is there still hope in the family that Natalee somehow miraculously could be found alive? REYNOLDS: We certainly have that hope. You know, we're looking at all the facts, but we have to keep that hope until we have evidence to the contrary. But you know, the concerns that we have are really about the investigation. You know, we have to question the credibility of some of the investigation, based on what we're seeing.
ROWLANDS: What's been the most frustrating thing, in terms of the investigation for the family?
REYNOLDS: Well, you know, it starts from day one. You know, my sister and her husband were able to identify the suspects the day Natalee was missing. That information was given to the police.
They went to the house. They waited 10 days to take those suspects into custody. They knew the second day that they were lying. You know, what was the reason for that?
And then we had the disappearing confessions, the confessions that happened and didn't, and then that happened and were taken away, the refusal to work with the FBI, basically the refusal to work in good faith with EquuSearch. You know, it just -- it goes on and on. And we have to wonder why.
ROWLANDS: Susan Candiotti, there was a confession out there, one of the newspapers reported that, indeed, Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed and had implicated one of the brothers. Where does that stand? Is there or is there not any confession on the table?
CANDIOTTI: We don't have any confirmation of any confession that was made, only that different versions and statements have been given by at least the three people involved in this case, the Kalpoe brothers and the Van Der Sloot boy.
And so, in terms of a confession, I have not heard any kind of information, or evidence, or confirmation that that really took place. Certainly, you would think that, if there were a confession, that someone who be charged.
I can stress that, despite the problems, that there is said to be a good rapport among the investigating authorities. But the question is, you know, how long, for example, is the FBI going to be able to stay there, you know, at their optimum manpower?
There were at least eight agents there, including a victim witness coordinator. And now they're down to about one person. So you know, we really don't know how much longer they will be able to stay on the island and participate in this investigation.
ROWLANDS: All right, Susan. Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway missing now for 47 days. Gone without a trace. The investigation continues. We'll have more right after this.
ROWLANDS: Stacey Honowitz, what are the odds of getting anything significant out of Joran Van Der Sloot at this point, with his father, obviously, a judge of some sort, telling him presumably not to say anything more? Is this going to be cold, in terms of trying to crack this young man?
HONOWITZ: Well, up until this point, you would think, listening to everything that we've heard so far, that it is going to be tough to crack this person. And we know, for any kind of investigation to proceed or some meaningful investigation to go on, you really do need him to speak.
But his father, as we have heard, has said to him, "No body, no crime." And certainly, knowing that he's only going to be in there for another 60 days, maybe another 30-day extension, I'm sure that he is just going to shut his mouth.
The most important thing -- and that's why we've said it's important that you get good interrogators in there. I mean, some of these guys are trained. They have great strategies, they have great techniques. They know how to do these things.
Nobody's saying that the Aruban police are incompetent, but it's the sophisticated level of what they know and how to do this. So I think, at this point, with him being in there as long as he is and not saying anything so far, you're going to have a problem.
ROWLANDS: Could you move forward, especially considering this is a country that you don't try a case in front of a jury, it's just a judge? Could you convince a judge without a body that the murder has taken place, a, and, b, this young man is responsible, if you don't have at leas a partial confession?
HONOWITZ: Well, listen, it's not only just the confession, but you know, it's not just the physical body, it's the corpus of the crime. So even just a mere confession probably isn't going to be enough. You're going to need to tie it in with some kind of forensic evidence to show that there was violence towards this girl.
Of the physical body, even in the United States when we try murder cases, you don't always have the physical body, but you have something else linking it in, besides in your confession.
So you know, what I said before was that ten-day lapse was a problem. Evidence could have been seized, DNA, whatever. In any event, that lapse in judgment, that lapse in time, really set this investigation back. And if he doesn't break in some way, or if some forensic evidence isn't brought up at this point, I think there's going to be a serious problem.
ROWLANDS: Michael Cardoza, a 17-year-old boy, nervous presumably, who changes his story a few times. Does that mean he killed this woman?
CARDOZA: No. That alone, of course not, Ted. That doesn't mean he killed her. I mean, there could be all sorts of reason that a person changes their story.
I mean, as you said, 17-year-old, not worldly, taken into custody, nervous, there's all sorts of explanations he could come up with. But I disagree with one thing Stacey said, you know, about the corpus delicti. And that means the crime has to be proven before you can get to a confession.
That simply means you can't use a confession alone to convict someone. But the courts, and especially the Dutch law -- it's based on common law -- it's just a slight proof, very slight proof, and there may be other reasonable explanations, for example, why she's missing.
Doesn't make any difference. The fact she's missing, the fact she's responsible, that one of the explanations is that she was murdered or killed in some fashion, that's enough. That would be enough to get to that confession, if you have a confession in this case.
But I'll tell you what. You know, one of the things, Ted, that's crossing my mind is Joran. Remember at the beginning of this, when Mrs. Holloway Twitty went to him and said, "Please, help me find my daughter." What was his response? "So what do you want me to do about it?"
You know, that really set her off, and I can see why. This kid's a big kid. He's 6'5". He sounds a bit arrogant. He's intelligent. I'll tell you what, what he's got to worry about -- and I'm sure this has crossed a lot of people's mind -- once he gets out, if he gets out of jail, maybe somebody's going to go try to find him and cross- examine him or question him after.
His life is going to be miserable after this, because there will be people that will earmark him and say, "Well, there's the guy that went after Natalee Holloway." There's the guy that has the answer. And I'll bet you somebody is going to want to question him.
ROWLANDS: Paul Reynolds, is the family convinced that Joran Van Der Sloot is responsible here or at least knows what happened to Natalee?
REYNOLDS: I can't say that we're 100 percent sure that he did something to her. We think he knows -- we think he knows what happened.
There's so many factors. The night that my sister arrived there, the suspicious behavior, refusal to let them go into the house.
And back on the confession. You know, what was reported is somewhat vague. But the deputy commissioner report of the Aruban police, reported the boys were talking that Friday night. The next morning, the chief spokesperson for the minister of justice was reporting that Natalee was dead.
The FBI had even intimated to my sister that they thought Natalee was probably not alive based on what the boys were saying. So we're confident they were saying something. We don't know exactly what it was.
Did someone stop them from talking? You know, we've a lot of questions. But we do think there's some truth there.
ROWLANDS: Susan, Joran Van Der Sloot's father, Paul, does have the ability now to go visit his son. But prosecutors don't want that to happen. Why is that? And I guess they petitioned the court to not allow him to visit his son?
CANDIOTTI: Well, it's kind of interesting, the terms under which he's being held. Now, keep in mind, the younger Van Der Sloot has not been charged. No one's been charged in this case.
But they are allowed to keep him in custody. However, they are allowing -- this three-judge appeals panel is allowing, under protest by prosecutors, for an attorney to be present whenever he is questioned and to allow him access -- continued access to television, and to newspapers, and the like.
So that's an interesting turn of events, as well, despite the best efforts by prosecutors. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays into things. But clearly, they are treating him like someone who is -- I mean, he's not charged, so theoretically he should be allowed visitors. That would happen in this country, as well.
ROWLANDS: OK. Natalee Holloway has been missing for 47 days. We'll have more on the search, where it goes from here, and your phone calls when we return. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
ROWLANDS: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Ted Rowlands, sitting in tonight for Larry. Let's reintroduce our panel.
Paul Reynolds, Natalee Holloway's uncle, brother of Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, is in Houston, Texas, tonight. Tim Miller is in Aruba. He is the director of Texas EquuSearch. It's a volunteer search-and-recovery group. They've spent weeks on Aruba trying to find any trace of Natalee Holloway.
Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent, covering the case for CNN. She is in Miami tonight.
Stacy Honowitz, Florida assistant state attorney, specializing in sex crimes and child abuse cases. She is in Philadelphia.
Michael Cardozo, well-known defense attorney in San Francisco tonight.
And Dr. Kathy Reichs, a forensic anthropologist for the office of the chief medical examiner in the state of North Carolina, is in Dallas.
Paul Reynolds, what does the family go through day by day? And how has that changed as the days have gone by?
REYNOLDS: You know, we're adapting to the current news. We're taking each step of this investigation, this process very seriously. We're monitoring it. You know, we're discussing it amongst ourselves and looking for new avenues to further this case and this process.
ROWLANDS: Tim Miller, Equusearch is pulling up on Sunday heading back to Texas. I understand, however, you are not finished searching for Natalee? You are going to continue with this?
MILLER: No, we're not finished by any means. And you know what, we've had -- we've talked about where Natalee could possibly be. I know that she's not on this island alive. She could possibly still be on this island. If she's found in the water sometime, it's not because she got drunk, missed her plane and tried to swim home.
Something has happened to Natalee. I am not convinced in any way that Natalee could possibly be alive.
But anyhow, next Thursday, we are flying in the ground penetration units, one of our members is coming back. The reason we didn't do that is because a storm came in, the ground is saturated.
And you know, this case is not over with. I think a good sized reward is going to be put up now. Not for Natalee's safe return, but for information on her whereabouts. And hopefully some calls will be coming in on that.
We're not done by any means on the search for Natalee. Natalee needs to be found. And unfortunately, I don't think that day will ever happen. I think somebody knew what they was doing. I don't even know if these boys know where she's at.
But you know what? If we don't search, there is absolutely no chance...
ROWLANDS: What do you mean by that?
MILLER: I don't know. Something could of happened higher up with people that got more money and more influence, and stuff making sure she's not found.
It just, you know, speculation or just thinking out loud, I guess.
But I don't know. I mean, it's heartbreaking.
I was optimistic coming to Aruba with all the resources we brought in, with everything we did that there was a chance but. But you know what, we've been here a long time and I'm really not optimistic Natalee will ever be found. But that doesn't mean we'll ever give up neither.
ROWLANDS: Dr. Reichs, given Aruba's topography, a lot of sand, salt water, obviously, would that make it more difficult to garner any evidence if, indeed, a body were found or even a crime scene -- a potential crime scene?
REICHS: Well, I think if the crime scene were found, then you are going to get some evidence. It's very difficult to have a crime scene and not have something there. Even in the absence of a body, you might be able to pick up in the dirts, in the dirt particles, fatty acids, the decompositional fluids from a body that had lane there, for example. You're also possibly going to have insect activity that's going to have left traces that a body is present, even if the body is not there any longer.
So, if there was a shallow grave at one time, even if the body was removed from that, someone mentioned that earlier, you're probably going to find evidence it had been there at one time.
So, I think there's a good probability if they're able to narrow in on a specific locale, then you can bring in the ground penetrating radar and you will be able to determine if there is something below the surface. You won't know what it is until you dig. But it's going to tell you, you've got something, that the dirt's been disturbed and there's something going on below the surface.
So, I wouldn't say it's totally hopeless that you're going to find something. But with 47 days gone by, it's much more difficult.
ROWLANDS: Let's take a call. Manhattan, New York. Hello.
CALLER: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm making the assumption that we're digging because of that concession. And I'm wondering, has anybody been -- and I haven't heard on the news -- checked the trash receptacles in all of that area, assuming that perhaps she wasn't buried that something went in the trash or a barge?
ROWLANDS: Tim Miller, did you investigate that as part of your search?
MILLER: You know what? It's like a miracle over here, the trash receptacles are dumped every two or three days at most. So when we get in here, how much later in that. They're already dumped. I mean, we had cadaver dogs in the dump areas, in the dumps. We found some things of interest, even dove in a dump site. And so, I mean it was too little, too late.
ROWLANDS: Michael Cardoza, the family has been critical that the Van der Sloots did not participate in a polygraph. If you were representing this young man, what would you do? Given the fact that the public -- you know, this family wants the answers. And it seems like -- let's assume you're representing him -- your client has some answers. Why not parade him out there, strap him up to a lie detector test and see what happens?
CARDOZA: Well, I tell you what -- No. 1, polygraphs, truth detectors, lie detectors are not allowed in the courts, even down there in Aruba. They don't allow them in. So, let's say you do allow that and you say, OK, hook him up. And he passes the lie detector test.
ROWLANDS: Does he walk away?
CARDOZA: No, of course, they're not going to walk away. Ted, I've had cases in the United States when I was prosecuting where people passed lie detector tests. The prosecutors prosecuting the case said we don't care. We're still going forward. And they got convictions in that cases, because the polygraph doesn't come into evidence.
Let's say he passes. The Aruban government would simply say so what? We're not going to look at it. It doesn't mean anything to us. There could be operator error in the case.
No. 2, what if it's inconclusive? Everybody would infer from that, oh, he must have done it because it was inconclusive.
Or No. 3 he flunks it. That means he did it. And somehow that filters out, it gets to the judges that hear the case and that might influence them in some way.
No way a good defense attorney is going to let you anywhere near a polygraph.
Ted, can I double-back a little bit on one thing? Earlier you were talking about the Holloways and and the Twitties. You know, I hope -- because they are going through something so emotional here with what appears to be the loss of a daughter. And I know they're all-consumed by this. At some point, they are really going to hit a wall.
And I really hope -- I know they have a good strong family, good, strong friends, but I really hope someone has come in with some kind of psychological help to really bolster them and help them through this. Because I tell you what, when all this shuts down, they will really hit a wall. And then one other thing. When Tim was talking, when he said, you know, I'm thinking out loud about higher-ups in government.
You know what could have happened here, and this is truly speculation, that Joran sells a pile of baloney to his dad, Paul, the judge. And says, look dad, it happened, but it was an accident, not my fault, we can't let this ruin my life. We've got to get rid of the body, she slipped, she fell, please help me. All of a sudden these people help get rid of the body. Maybe there is a cover-up and that snowball starts going down the hill. Here we are with that. That wouldn't surprise me in the least.
ROWLANDS: All right. All speculation, unfortunately at this point, because there are no real answers as to what happened to Natalee Holloway. We will be right back. More phone calls and more on this case. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Stay with us.
ROWLANDS: Dewey, Arizona, hello.
CALLER: Yes. I had a question regarding the -- yes, early in the investigation there was some talk about the date rape drug being used. And my question was regarding that. I thought maybe they knew that it was her last night on the island, maybe they gave her an extra heavy dose. Could you possibly die from that, from a double dose of that drug? ROWLANDS: Dr. Kathy Reichs, what do you think? GHB, I guess he's talking about. A, can you overdose and die, and B, is it in the system long enough to detect?
REICHS: Well it's really a medical question. But I would imagine you can have an idiopathic reaction to any kind of drug that you are given. You can die as a result of drinking orange juice if you have a reaction to it. Would it be retained in the body? Again, that's a question for a pathologist. But it's possible that that's going to be in the body. There have been studies done on, even in the abscence of the body, again if we've got maggots -- where they're able to pick up the maggots that have the drugs that were in the corpse that were lying in a certain location. So some of that evidence may be picked up even indirectly, even if the body is in very bad condition or decomposed or compromised in some way.
ROWLANDS: Dr. Reichs is in Dallas tonight, author of eight best- selling novels. Her latest is "Crossbones". Give us an example of something that has taken years in terms of finding remains and something amazing has happened in terms of solving a case. And even though 47 days have gone by, by no means, I would assume, is it over in terms of finding information from remains.
REICHS: Oh, absolutely. I mean we've had cases of this just recently. Chandra Levy was missing for how long? And her skeleton finally turned up in Rock Creek Park. Laci Peterson was missing for a lengthy period of time and her body turned up in water. So -- and these, of course, are cases for the forensic anthropologists, because you've to get a lot of the information from the bones, determining how old Laci Peterson's infant was, for example, those kinds of questions fall to the anthropologists because you really can't do -- after a certain point, you really can't do what we think of as a normal autopsy because you don't have the organs, the tissues, the brains, and therefore you've got to go with what's preserved and that's the bones and the teeth.
ROWLANDS: Paul Reynolds, how difficult is it to listen to people talking about finding remains and not Natalee? And has that been something that the family has gotten to because of the length of time without hearing from her?
REYNOLDS: Well, of course, it's been a possibility since day one. You know, this is certainly a tragedy for our family, but it's not just our family. It's the Van Der Sloot family, it's the people on the island of Aruba. You know we're all suffering through this at the same time. You know we would like for the individuals that know what happened -- you know if it was an accident, and certainly it could have been an accident -- to come forward and let everyone know and let's all try to move forward with our lives.
ROWLANDS: Taylor, Michigan, hello.
CALLER: Hi. My question is for Tim Miller.
ROWLANDS: Go ahead. CALLER: Hi, Tim. My heart goes out to you as well as to the Holloway family. My question is, has anyone been in or checked this abandoned well on the Van Der Sloot property, as well as the property itself?
MILLER: We've not been allowed on that property. It's one of the things that we wanted to check. And in fact, we had some equipment sent down special to do that, and, unfortunately, we've not been able to use it on that property. So -- and I think I said the other night, we wanted to do that, if we got egg on our face because nothing was there, that's fine, we can deal with that. We can wash the egg off. But you know it's, again, we want to eliminate every possibility. We've not eliminated that one.
ROWLANDS: Susan, have Aruba officials looked at the Van Der Sloot property? And did the FBI get involved at least in that part of the search?
CANDIOTTI: Ted, I don't have any information about that. But you know, the thing is there has been a lot, as your callers have phoned in various questions, a lot of speculation and a lot of theories about different possibilities. For example, date rape drug, was that used. You know we do know this. That there's been no confirmation of that and according to interviews with Natalee's friends who were with her that night -- remember the only solid information we have is that she left there in the company of Van Der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers. And according to her friends, she seemed to be ok and told them she'd be okay leaving with him. So -- and I do know the latest information from the FBI is that they're trying to be very meticulous about this and they've even gone to the length of going back and interviewing, re-interviewing her friends back in Alabama to try to look for just any possible clues about her state of mind, the way she thinks, the way she might act on that night, to try to look for anything that could help lead to, perhaps questions that could be asked, additional questions that maybe haven't been asked before.
ROWLANDS: All right. We are going to take a quick break. We'll get to that, I think that was Stacy, we'll get to that in a bit. Before we go to break, we want to repeat the fact that LARRY KING LIVE has extended standing invitations to Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers as well as their attorneys and family members to appear on the show. So far, those invitations have not been accepted. The prosecutors office on Aruba is not doing media interviews at this time. We'll be right back.
ROWLANDS: Stacy Honowitz, you wanted to say something before we went to break there?
HONOWITZ: Yes, Ted. We were talking earlier, Susan was talking about, GHB and one of the callers talked about maybe it was a date rape drug. You know, the problem is even if you go back and you re- interview these friends. She might have been fine when she left the bar, everybody might have seen her in good condition, and something could have happened afterwards. In other words, they might have slipped her a drug afterwards in the drink. So we don't know.
But I think that the most frustrating thing for everybody listening to all of this is the fact that over in Aruba, all of the hearings are closed. We're not privy to any information. Nobody knows if any information has been shared. Nobody know how much the FBI is involved, if the FBI has been helping in the search, where are they searching. And I think that's where most of the viewers and the callers are concerned, because we're speculating. We have all these theories because we don't know anything that's going on over there. And there's one questions I wanted to ask Tim, was earlier he said that he met, when he first went over there, he met with the sergeant or lieutenant of the Arubian (sic) police force. I would like to know, as I'm sure other people want to know, is if that police force, did she share any information with him as far as where they searched or what they did or how far along in the investigation they were so that he wasn't wasting his time and looking in the same places that they might have -- well, it's not wasting time, but going back to the same areas where maybe they went already?
MILLER: A lot of that information wasn't shared. I know that he mapped out areas for us that he wanted us to search. So I don't know -- to this day, I don't know really what was searched before we got here.
I know we searched as much as we could search. I know we searched places three and four times, because we know how easy it is to miss stuff. But, I don't know what they did before we got here. I'm sorry.
ROWLANDS: We should mention that Equusearch is dedicated to the memory of Tim's daughter, Laura, who was abducted and murdered in 1984. I know, Tim, in a news conference earlier this week, I don't know if it was Wednesday or Tuesday, you sort of broke down a bit when talking about this case and your frustration over it. Does your daughter come to mind as you search for Natalee?
MILLER: Do you know what, there's no way possible I could of done this within the first ten years after Laura's death. I had to go through that grieving process. God certainly blessed me in the healing process, so I can help these other families.
And I know what we're saying what is going on here in Aruba on this case. But, you know, I didn't have any more help in Lake City, Texas when my own daughter disappeared. And we can go to the Lake City Police Department's Web site today and there are three girls there, Laura, Heidi and another girl that's not even on their Web site on their unsolved murders.
So, you know, I don't know I'm getting any more cooperation at home than we're getting here. So, you know what? We've got a big problem in America also -- so let's don't just focus on one thing.
ROWLANDS: Naples, Florida, hello. CALLER: Yes, good evening. My question is to the family. Have they thought of last resort hiring a psychic detective? And for Mr. Miller, has he looked into those case (ph) in Aruba? Because I'm feeling that maybe they put her in there.
MILLER: Have we looked where? I'm sorry.
ROWLANDS: I didn't catch that. I don't know. Paul, she sort of directed it towards you. Did you catch what she was saying?
REYNOLDS: Yes, I did. About the psychics -- and I know that there were conversations with several different psychics trying to get some ideas from them. You know, I don't know that we've been able to, you know, confirm any of the information or you know, hasn't led us to her yet, but certainly we've talked to them through this process.
ROWLANDS: Information very difficult to get out of Aruba. We'll talk about the frustration, not only for the family but for everybody covering this case. We'll talk to Susan about that when we return.
Natalee Holloway missing now for 47 days. We'll have more. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Stay with us.
ROWLANDS: Susan Candiotti, how frustrating is it to cover a story where nothing is really on the public record and it seems like both sides have clammed up -- or all sides?
CANDIOTTI: Well, Ted, I'm sure you can appreciate this, good thing you have sources, right? Because you get them to tell you information that normally you wouldn't be able to.
But some of the problems, according to correspondents who are there on the island, remember the hearings are closed there under that system of justice, and so, technically, you find out whatever it is you're going to find out once the authorities come out and make a public statement.
Also, for example, in the United States, when you file a search warrant, oftentimes there is return of the search warrant filed and you can find out the kinds of things that authorities are locating, retrieving from houses, from cars, that kind of thing.
CANDIOTTI: If it isn't sealed, of course. So, that's why you have to rely more and more on getting to know people, getting them to talk to you for the record but on background.
ROWLANDS: Tough to confirm anything.
Paul Reynolds, what does the family find out from investigators? Do they brief the family as to the progress, or is it as difficult for you to get information? REYNOLDS: It's the same for us. Getting any information is very difficult. But it's the things that we do find out about from the FBI, the frustration, the way they've held back Equusearch, the things that we know about that aren't handled, we think appropriately, what does that tell us about the things we don't know about?
ROWLANDS: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, hello.
CALLER: Hello. I was just wondering, with the fishermen, they said they didn't see anybody on the beach. Did they investigate the fishermen? And did they have a boat?
ROWLANDS: Susan? Do you know anything about that?
CANDIOTTI: Yes. According to our Karl Penhaul, our correspondent who has been based there covering this from the beginning, indeed, the authorities have interviewed the fishermen. They were out there, told the authorities that during the time frame when the Van der Sloot boy said that he was there with Natalee, at least for a time, they saw no activity for hours during the time those fishermen were there. So that seems to indicate certainly an inconsistency -- yet another inconsistency on the kind of information that's coming in.
ROWLANDS: Stacey Honowitz, quickly, we don't have a lot of time, if you were in this situation, you don't have a lot of information, you have a sneaky suspicion that this young man knows more, what did you do?
HONOWITZ: Well, I get my best people in there to try to get him to talk. That's the first thing. And second of all, I think maybe in a case like this, the reward system might work, because maybe he's -- in those ten days that he was out, maybe he spoke to people, maybe he bragged to somebody about what happened.
Maybe by getting the reward system, because we see we're stuck, we're not going anywhere on this investigation, maybe you can get people to come forward and talk about something that they know.
But right now, where this investigation is, with all of the inconsistent statements that have been going on, obviously, these judges, unanimously found that he is of high suspicion in this case, and hopefully from here on in we will more information, some more forensic evidence and maybe, we're going to have a resolution in this case.
But right now, I'd get in my best investigators to try to talk to him and really ask around the island.
ROWLANDS: It has been 47 days and still not a lot as far as what happened to Natalee Holloway.
Thanks to all of our guests tonight. Paul Reynolds, Tim Miller, CNN's Susan Candiotti, Stacey Honowitz, Michael Cardoza and Dr. Kathey Reichs, author of the new novel "Crossbones." And of course, my personal thanks to Larry for letting me borrow the mic from him tonight.
Tomorrow night, an encore broadcast of Larry's interview with Monaco's Prince Albert. Then Sunday, the top contenders on ABC's "Dancing With the Stars."
Stay tuned now to CNN for "NEWSNIGHT" with Aaron Brown. Good night.
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